Open Thread: Like Drug Dealers & Osama bin Laden!

Says the GOP presidential candidate who spends hours a day on Twitter.

(I owe some commentor a hat tip for the title.)

214 replies
  1. 1
    redshirt says:

    He just understands war better than the Generals or the politicians.
    Vote Trump!

  2. 2
    germy says:

    Will all three debates happen? I want to see a minimum of three debates….

  3. 3
    RaflW says:

    As has been said 1,000 times: in any sane country, Trump would be despised by both liberals and conservatives. Because he is a total idiot.
    But Italy elected Berlusconi, so we know that the US isn’t the only place that can be in thrall to a charismatic charlatan.

  4. 4
    RaflW says:

    @germy: I’m with the various commenters and twitterati who say Trump will find a way to back out. There is no way he can win them, and he cannot tolerate being humiliated. Particularly by Crooked Hillary.
    I’d so want to watch it, but it ain’t gonna happen.

  5. 5
    Baud says:

    @germy: I think the current thinking is that Trump will insist on Stein and Johnson so everyone, including the moderators, will be attacking Hillary instead of him.

  6. 6
    Tenar Darell says:

    This election is terribly damaging to my poor history nerd heart. keep on thinking of the beginnings of jokes –
    General Patton, General Patton! We’re surrounded!
    By whom Private?
    By a-historical idiots, sir!

    ETA formatting

  7. 7
    Kolohe says:

    I’m suprised nobody in his neoconfederate horde has told him about the problems Bobby Lee had with couriers and orders.

  8. 8

    I don’t think Trump would care for MacArthur’s views on the executive as unquestioned commander-in-chief.

  9. 9
    Waspuppet says:

    “Who are MacArthur and Patton?”

    – Every American under 50

  10. 10
    MattF says:

    @RaflW: Trump is already complaining, trying to show that he’s in charge of what happens at the debates. The right answer to his demands, IMO, is ‘No’. Which would mean no debates.

  11. 11
    ruemara says:

    I’m rewriting my resume. I have to do 2 versions: film/tv production & marcom/design I HAAAAATE RESUMES. And I have to do cover letters. Why can’t I just curl into a ball and be qualified based on that? /whine

    Oh well. At least this time I have a friend who does career counseling for a living and this time I have her guidance. But I still hate everything.

  12. 12
    satby says:

    You know, I keep seeing people worrying about the white union guys going for Drumpf and I gotta say, none of the ones I know are. I’m seeing a lot of contempt for Drumpf on FB from the old union guys, but then they’ve had his number for years for not hiring union workers. And not too many of the guys I know are flaming liberals.

  13. 13
    germy says:

    @RaflW: @Baud: Isn’t he already complaining about the scheduling? Something about it being scheduled on the same night as a sportsball game? (As if this was the year 1967, and the only way we could see the debates was live on our big console TVs)

  14. 14
    Baud says:

    @satby: I think the white nonunion guys are the greater concern.

  15. 15

    @Waspuppet: What if you’re over 50 at heart?

  16. 16
    Baud says:

    @germy: I don’t know. The primaries told me that the debate schedule is the most important thing ever, so maybe he has a point.

  17. 17
    Keith G says:

    @germy: Commentators like Favreau and Pfieffer who are close to the campaign are saying that at this point in the timeline of past election years there is already established contacts and a back and forth going on about debates. That in not the case as of now.

    You know what else Patton hated? Nazis and Russia

    That is golden.

  18. 18
    Baud says:

    @ruemara: I’m the same way.

  19. 19
    Calouste says:

    Man, the cheato is dim. How is he going to communicate with submarines? Give the couriers a paddle boat and a diving suit?

  20. 20
    redshirt says:

    It just occurred to me, viscerally, the other day, that Trump has pretty good odds of becoming President — if someone gave you 33% chance for something huge occurring, would you go for it? Of course you would. We all would.

    It’s terrifying that he’s this close to actual power. We’re fucking DOOMED if he becomes President, God help us all.

  21. 21
    satby says:

    @Baud: I would agree. My white collar cousins are a hair more likely because they’ve been reliable Rs for decades, though their union Dem dads probably spin in their graves every election. But they’re keeping pretty quiet, so they’re embarrassed right now by what their party horked up.

  22. 22
    germy says:

    @Baud: I can click on youtube and watch any debate I want. I don’t understand why it’s important if A Big Game™ is happening on a different channel.

    I mean, it’s fun watching it live, but won’t most people watch it at their convenience?

    I must be naive; I thought debates were mandatory for anyone running for president. I didn’t know he could just say “Nah, I won’t participate.” That should be an automatic disqualification.

  23. 23
    Baud says:

    @satby: I just don’t understand it. It’s not a blood oath. Vote for the Dem. Next time, vote GOP if they get their act together.

  24. 24
    satby says:

    @germy: so should no tax returns, but he’s gotten away with that so far.

  25. 25

    If I were Hillary, I would just say, OK, you schedule the debates, I’m down for whatever.

  26. 26
    satby says:

    @Baud: I don’t get it either. It’s like a cargo cult at this point.

  27. 27
    Mike in NC says:

    Would love to see Drumpf arrive for a debate dressed up like George C. Scott from the opening scene in “Patton”.

  28. 28
    germy says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    If I were Hillary, I would just say, OK, you schedule the debates

    Certainly gives him less of a reason to squirm out of them. But I hadn’t thought of him insisting that Stein and Johnson (and Sanders!) be allowed onstage with them.

  29. 29
    different-church-lady says:

    @Baud: But then he wouldn’t be able to resist attacking Stein and Johnson first.

  30. 30
    germy says:


    so should no tax returns…

    He seemed so insistent on transparency when he was demanding Obama’s college transcripts and long form birth certificate…

  31. 31
    ruemara says:

    @Calouste: I’m thinking dolphins and interpretive dance. Just off the top of my head here.

  32. 32
    Keith G says:

    Schilling again for the podcast, Keeping it 1600, here is the overview of yesterday’s release:

    Jon Favreau and Dan Pfeiffer weigh in on Bill Clinton, Bloomberg, Biden, Kaine, and Obama at the DNC (6:00). Plus, Joel Benenson, chief strategist for Hillary Clinton’s 2016 presidential campaign, joins the show to discuss Clinton’s speech and the polls and pants wetters (38:00).

    Every time I listen to these guys, it becomes clearer how wise Obama was to form a team around him were ideology was less important than an intelligent and rational mind.

    The GOP has had a weakness of placing ideology in front of rationality, with noteworthy results.

  33. 33
    dmsilev says:

    Hold on to your hats everyone, Donald Trump is either lying or doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Shocking, right? The debate schedule was actually set and announced before the NFL schedule that he’s whining about. Like months before.

  34. 34

    @germy: That one’s a little trickier, because it lets him do the “change the rules and then bash Hillary for not following them” thing that worked really well with e.g. the speech transcripts (for Sanders at least), and plays into the narrative about princess hillary, corrupt media, etc. It ALSO pisses off the BoB’ers who’ve just reluctantly joined the fold, although the people who care about having some yahoo who’s polling at 6% on stage probably weren’t going to vote for Hillary anyway.

    @Baud: I’m gonna have to steal the ‘blood oath’ thing, but use it on the Bernbusters.

  35. 35
    rikyrah says:



    AM Joy w/Joy ReidVerified account
    @MALCOLMNANCE’s stirring words on patriotic sacrifices of Khan family & #DonaldTrump’s proposed #Muslim ban #AMJoy

  36. 36
    MattF says:

    @Baud: RW loyalty seems to be fragile. Once you’ve allowed that voting for a Democrat is not equivalent to a declaration of fealty to His Satanic Majesty, the whole belief system becomes unsafe. And when that Democrat is Hillary Clinton… Well.

  37. 37
    germy says:

    If he does debate, the villagers will have set the bar so low that if he doesn’t let loose with a barrage of curses and spittle they’ll declare him “surprisingly calm and effective” and they’ll report a post-debate bounce in his polls.

  38. 38
    rikyrah says:

    why am I in moderation?

  39. 39

    @MattF: These people really are spineless AF. And they’re the ones calling drag queens sissies. Bitch, you would break down in tears trying to even buy their shoes.

  40. 40
    dmsilev says:

    Since Donald and the military is the topic of this thread, let’s bring up what we were discussing downstairs and note that ABC asked him about Mr. Khan’s now-famous “you have sacrificed nothing” speech. It didn’t go so well.

  41. 41


  42. 42
    lamh36 says:

    Ugh…so fuqn mad at what Trump said about the Khans!!!

    at the very least it’s good to see majority of well regarded media equally angry and disgusted!!!


  43. 43
    dmsilev says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Preparation is for inferior individuals. Donald Trump needs no preparation.

  44. 44
    Crashman06 says:

    @Keith G: I’m really loving that podcast. Those guys have great chemistry together; it’s a must listen every week, despite my growing dread of the eventual outcome in November b

  45. 45
    EllenH says:

    @Keith G: I’m addicted to that podcast! I download it the minute they release it. I anticipate that it will help me a lot down the stretch.

  46. 46
    gogol's wife says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    I think that WAS his prepared response. It was “ooga-booga San Bernardino, ooga-booga 9/11, ooga-booga Nice, ooga-booga 85-year-old priest”! It will work fine for his base. The question is how it will play with the rest of the country.

  47. 47
    Tokyokie says:

    @RaflW: And, like Berlusconi before him, Trump, as the nation’s head of state, would not be able to resist the temptation to loot the country’s resources for his personal gain.

  48. 48
    MattF says:

    @dmsilev: No– It. Did. Not. Go. Well.

    It’s fair to note that Trump was boxed in, but… was it really all that difficult? And why couldn’t any of his 16 rivals for the R nom manage it?

  49. 49
    Mnemosyne says:


    If he does try to back out, Hillary needs to announce that she will be there on the appointed day and time, ready to go, regardless of whether he shows up or not. And then do it. I mean, free airtime that your opponent turned down? Yes, please!

  50. 50
    lamh36 says:

    @MattF: boxed in…they had what 48hrs to get some response together…they know how the speech went over with Republican and Dem and media…but I’m sure he once again went off the cuff…but to say he was boxed in is bullshit

  51. 51
    Tokyokie says:

    @Kolohe: Trump would have smoked the three cigars, had they been Montecristos, discarded them as beneath his refined tastes were they not. Either way, he would have discarded the message in the wrapper.

  52. 52
    Mnemosyne says:


    Like I said below, I’m even more impressed now that I know Mr. Khan wrote his own speech, and I didn’t think I could be more impressed with him.

    And as to Donnie’s assholish why didn’t she speak? thing: she lost her son, asshole. Mr. Khan was very clearly speaking for them both, which is why they were so perfectly color-coordinated.

  53. 53


    The one debate I’m certain Trump will avoid is the open-floor questions from the audience. Barring an attempt to pack the room with pro-Trump people (impossible to do), Trump will be vulnerable to questions on issues across the board that he wouldn’t be able to answer without sounding like an idiot (“I can do that, sure,” “It’ll be great,” “I’ll hire… I’ll hire the best people, for certain,” “I could punch you in the face, you know that?” etc). Even the softball questions can go screwball on him.

    He’s already accused the debates of being rigged despite the independent nature of the committee that oversees them. So he’s already made his out for his voting base. I just hope to God the rest of the nation sees it for the cowardice that will be (even Dubya and Mitt did the debates).

  54. 54
    MattF says:

    @lamh36: Given his policies, what could he say? Of course he didn’t have to be bizarrely offensive, but I don’t think there was any good response.

  55. 55
    dmsilev says:

    We’re through the Looking Glass, people:

    ‏@BillKristol Bill Kristol Retweeted This Week
    Watch this. Then tell me @realDonaldTrump meets the minimal standards of character & self-awareness to be president.

  56. 56


    Oh, you know, that one guy in that war movie Dad watches every Memorial Day.

  57. 57
    dmsilev says:

    As a side note to that Trump clip, towards the end he tries to say that he “sacrificed” by giving money to veterans groups. Let us please all remember that he spent months trying to weasel out of commitments that he loudly made, and it was only after the Washington Post publicly called him on it did he finally, grudgingly, cough up the cash he had boasted of earlier.

  58. 58

    @MattF: “Mr. Khan is right. I haven’t sacrificed much. And that’s something I regret, you know? If I could do it over I’d have joined the armed forces, I have great respect for our men and women and uniform and of course we all honor Mr. Khan’s sacrifice.

    We live in dangerous times. Humayun Khan was killed by a car bomb placed by radical Islamic jihadists. And in Iraq, this is a country, where by letting people like this run wild, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama have actually made us less safe. They created ISIS. ISIS, ISIS is people like this, the radical Islamic terrorists who killed Humayun Khan, may he rest in peace. When I’m president, we are going to destroy these people so hard, they won’t even have a car to put a bomb in.”

  59. 59
    scottinnj says:

    Wow, so Donald Trump is out there slandering the parents of Humayan Khan again.
    Basically – ‘why can’t his Mom talk – is she being told not to talk”
    Well, she did talk to Larry O’Donnell. Basically a few minutes into the interview she talks about how she didnt want her son to be a hero, she just wanted her son back as her son, but he did come back a hero.
    Frankly if anything was more moving than the convention speech it was these comments by a gold star mother.

    Truly, there are no works for Trump.

    Read this short section posted by Ezra Klein (yes Vox but this is a good piece).

  60. 60
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:


    I really don’t know what to make of Kristol now. I’m guessing up to now no Republican was so overtly courting the kind of volk that would gladly march him into an oven to the extent that it can be dismissed, and he now can see the reflection of the past in the future with Trump, enough to make him woke, at least in a self preservation way.

  61. 61
    germy says:

    Off topic, but is this an energy breakthrough?

    A solar cell breakthrough has the potential to render fossil fuels obsolete while at the same time reversing some of the damage such fuels have done to the atmosphere, new research suggests.

    Researchers from the University of Illinois at Chicago (UIC) created a catalyst that uses the sun’s energy to convert carbon dioxide in the atmosphere into burnable hydrocarbon fuel.

    “Instead of producing energy in an unsustainable one-way route from fossil fuels to greenhouse gas, we can now reverse the process and recycle atmospheric carbon into fuel using sunlight,” said Amin Salehi-Khojin, an assistant professor of mechanical and industrial engineering at UIC.

    Salehi-Khojin and his colleague’s findings are published in the July 29 issue of the journal Science and a patent application for the technology has been filed.

    So often I’ll read about some unbelievable advance like this, and then it falls apart under further scrutiny.

  62. 62
    Mnemosyne says:


    Yeah, I’m pretty sure it took everything she had to stand on that stage at all, much less try to speak.

    Like I said, every signal that was sent by the way they dressed and interacted was that they were a team and Mr. Khan was speaking for both of them.

  63. 63
    scottinnj says:

    Wow, so Donald Trump is out there slandering the parents of Humayan Khan again.
    Basically – ‘why can’t his Mom talk – is she being told not to talk”
    Well, she did talk to Larry O’Donnell. Basically a few minutes into the interview she talks about how she didnt want her son to be a hero, she just wanted her son back as her son, but he did come back a hero. I can’t do it justice (nor can I seem to link to the video) – but it is even more moving than the convention speech her husband gave.

    Truly, there are no works for Trump. This is a guy who basically just took a crap on a gold star parent. It’s time for the GOP to get off their butt’s and repudiate this guy. If you let this go, you really have no dignity left.

    Read this short section posted by Ezra Klein (yes Vox but this is a good piece). (note system doesn’t like the link

  64. 64
    MattF says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Better. Although Trump would never say those first sentences.

  65. 65

    @germy: What I do is, wait for the Science piece to come out and have an expert in, or at least adjacent to, the field read it and tell me what it means. Science journalism is soooo bad.

    @MattF: Yeah, but I had to put something down that at least mentioned that before pivoting to ISIS. Seriously, he just needed to address it for like one sentence and he could have moved on to the stump speech.

  66. 66
    dmsilev says:

    @germy: I haven’t yet had a chance to read the technical paper, but I should point out that we have things that convert atmospheric CO2 into burnable hydrocarbons. They’re called ‘plants’. Now, being able to perform carbon-fixing in the lab (or industrially) is potentially a big deal, but a lot depends on the details. The one big one that comes to mind is how much energy do you have to pump into the fixing process vs. how much energy do you get back from burning the fuel? It has to be a net-negative loop (laws of thermodynamics are a real bitch about things like that), but how far negative is a key question. If it’s practical and economical to use solar-cell electricity to turn atmospheric carbon into something that a car could burn, yeah that’s big.

  67. 67
    lamh36 says:

    Symone Sanders on Life After Bernie
    And why #sheswithher.

    …MH: Last time we spoke, you told me about some really frustrating experiences you had on the road that you felt were definitely related to being a woman of color. Do you want to talk a little bit about those?

    SS: There were multiple instances. There were places where I literally I couldn’t get in. I would go to the door, the staff entrance, and people would say, “This is staff only.” I’d have to explain to them that I was staff, and they would question me. I would have to say, “I’m the national press secretary. Did you watch me on the news the other day?” It was consistently happening. There was one week where it happened the entire week.

    My breaking point was a time when I had let the event staff know I was having trouble getting in places and asked them if they could just really make an extra effort for this particular day, because it had been a long week. Like, “Could you please just let folks know that I’m coming and that I’m black?” You don’t think you’d have to say those things, but I said, “Let them know there’s going to be a black girl that’s going to come to the front and please let her in.”

    So I got past the first few checkpoints, but then I pulled into a parking spot and a gentleman came running up to my car, banging on my window, yelling all kinds of profanity and expletives, telling me to get the F out of here, this is for staff, and that I didn’t belong back here. I broke down in the car. I cracked my window down and I said, “I’m the national press secretary!” I was just crying. Eventually someone came down and let me in.

    Senator Sanders found out about it later, and he and his wife, Jane, were horrified. They knew it was plain old racism and nothing else. During his speech that night, he spent a little extra time on the part about race relations in America and racism. It made me feel really great to know that I was working for somebody that in that instance, got it.

    This all goes to show that we have come so far in so many places in our American life, but in politics we still have some ways to go in terms of staffing and representation on various levels. Not only do we need more women and more people of color in the House, and in the Senate, and in state Houses all across this country, and more women and more people of color in executive office, like the presidency, but we also need to make sure that representation is there on the staff level….

  68. 68
    Mnemosyne says:

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne:

    The one thing Always Wrong Bill Kristol is actually not that bad at is spotting a risk to the Republican Party. He was the one who wrote the memo in 1992 saying that if healthcare reform passed, the Republicans would be toast.

    Though IIRC he was also the one who recommended that McCain pick Palin as his VP, so he’s still pretty dim.

  69. 69
    OGLiberal says:

    We can all laugh but while Jonah Goldberg and John Podhoretz may stay home and not vote this Fall, plenty of racist fucks- and our country is, sadly, filled with them – will, and we need to vote to compete. Just vote. If we all vote and Trump still wins then maybe we dont live in the country we think we do.

  70. 70
    RepubAnon says:

    @RaflW: Which is why he’s starting to prep the media for his withdrawal from the scheduled debates by claiming that everything’s a Hillary plot.

  71. 71
    Doug R says:

    @ruemara: Film/production? What have you worked on?

  72. 72
    Amir Khalid says:

    Well, I’m sceptical about the bit where you take CO2 from the air and turn it into a hydrocarbon fuel. When you burn that fuel, the CO2 goes right back into the air. So I don’t see the nett gain.

  73. 73

    @OGLiberal: Are you forgetting that Obama was elected twice and with comfortable margins. There is no need to start panicking preemptively.

  74. 74
    Cermet says:

    @rikyrah: Join the club on that mysterious formula that decides who and when that happens. Strange you can post that question. When I go down, all my posts are in moderation – no questions allowed!

  75. 75
    Feathers says:

    @PaulWartenberg2016: Patton was my grandfather’s favorite movie. Colonel Allen watched it whenever it was on TV. I believe the purchase of a VCR was made when Patton came out on tape.

    Although movies may be a totally crap was to learn movies, they do at least give you a sense that history exists, and might be something to pay attention to. Like knowing who Patton was.

    Wikipedia trivia (because I always have to check the spelling of Colonel): “Colonel” comes from “column,” the R in the English pronunciation is guessed to come from the Spanish equivalent “Coronel,” derived from “crown.” That may actually help in the spelling, TBQH.

  76. 76
    dmsilev says:

    @Major Major Major Major: The full article is here, but it’s paywalled. Abstract:

    Nanostructured transition metal dichalcogenide electrocatalysts for CO2 reduction in ionic liquid

    Conversion of carbon dioxide (CO2) into fuels is an attractive solution to many energy and environmental challenges. However, the chemical inertness of CO2 renders many electrochemical and photochemical conversion processes inefficient. We report a transition metal dichalcogenide nanoarchitecture for catalytic electrochemical CO2 conversion to carbon monoxide (CO) in an ionic liquid. We found that tungsten diselenide nanoflakes show a current density of 18.95 milliamperes per square centimeter, CO faradaic efficiency of 24%, and CO formation turnover frequency of 0.28 per second at a low overpotential of 54 millivolts. We also applied this catalyst in a light-harvesting artificial leaf platform that concurrently oxidized water in the absence of any external potential.

    I only have a smattering of a background in electrochemistry, but if I have a chance I can try to go through the whole thing and translate it into vaguely normal English rather than science-ese.

  77. 77
    Cermet says:

    @Amir Khalid: There is no net gain relative to existing CO2 in the air but right now, we burn carbon and only put it into the atmosphere. So yes, a system that creates fuel by using CO2 is a great advantage because it is carbon neutral but you still get power!!!

  78. 78
    dmsilev says:

    @Amir Khalid: Hydrocarbon fuels are a very dense way of storing energy. If we could burn gasoline or similar in our cars without any net contribution to atmospheric CO2, that would go a long ways towards solving a bunch of problems.

  79. 79
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:


    As I said in the last thread, I’m not sure where are all these new white racist voters that will all mobilize for Trump were, when B-Rock the Shock Super Allah-X Obama and his ACORN army was stealing the country out from under them.

  80. 80
    gindy51 says:

    @dmsilev: But no matter what the actual foot ball schedule, how dumb is it to put debates on a Monday night in the fall? The NFL owns Monday night in whatever place the game is on and how stupid to even bother to have them that day or Sunday (and some Thursdays).

  81. 81
    MattF says:

    @Amir Khalid: Just think of the CO2 in the atmosphere as a mix of ‘vintages’. When you take up CO2 now, you get mostly old CO2 produced from inefficient combustion, when you produce CO2 now, it’s the product of more efficient combustion. So, there would be a differential improvement when ‘old’ CO2 is replaced by ‘newer’ CO2. It’s a more subtle effect than you might think of at first– and, as dmsilev notes, it’s not obvious who wins in the end.

  82. 82
    sukabi says:

    @germy: my guess is it’s IMPORTANT to drumpf because HE wants to watch the games, the other stuff is just getting in HIS way.

  83. 83
    Ruviana says:

    @Calouste: Diving bell and flash cards.

  84. 84
    Tokyokie says:

    And another takeaway from Trump’s response to the Wrath of Khan: Providing thousands, nay, TENS of thousands of jobs to people really doesn’t mean dick when you then refuse to pay them. But then theft of labor has long been a foundational tenet of his business practices, which, I suppose is part of why he’s so popular among those nostalgic for the antebellum South, the economic foundation of which was identical.

  85. 85
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Leave Ross Douthat and Rod Dreher out of this!

  86. 86

    @gindy51: Don’t be ridiculous. You can’t cede half the week to the whims of a sport.

  87. 87
    Amir Khalid says:

    So the goal here is carbon-neutral fuel, rather than bringing down atmospheric carbon levels? I get it now, thanks.

  88. 88

    Trump’s argument against Khan’s speech? “Why didn’t she speak?”

    Let me tell you, Mr. Trump, I know mothers who have lost sons. If Mrs. Khan spoke she would have used every curse word and slur in the book against you, you cheeto-faced ferret-wearing shitgibbon. She would have made Scotsmen blush.

  89. 89
    PsiFighter37 says:

    @dmsilev: Goddamn, if that ain’t a narcissist (and an idiot), I don’t know what is. Asked what he has sacrificed, and all he talks about it how he created jobs and how much the vets love him.


  90. 90
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @rikyrah: FYWP. All purpose salve for the embargoed at Balloon Juice.

  91. 91
    Mnemosyne says:


    If voters turn out in the same numbers and demographics as 2012, Trump will lose.

    However, I’m discovering that I don’t just want Trump to lose by the same few percentage points that Romney did. I was him to be crushed. Humiliated. Repudiated. I want to run up the score and make it very, very clear to the assholes who championed him that they are not some kind of silent majority, they’re a very small number of whiners.

    I am fired up and ready to go get that result. How about you?

  92. 92
    sigaba says:

    The story of how Patton, MacArthur, FDR and Churchill could all have encrypted voice telephone calls with each other over a digital voice network in 1944 is actually really fascinating.

  93. 93
    dmsilev says:

    @gindy51: It’s actually not that many people. NFL ratings for last season. Monday night is typically 12-13 million people. Trump and Clinton each got on the order of 30 million people for their acceptance speeches.

  94. 94
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @PsiFighter37: THIS vet loathes him with the heat of a billion burning suns.

  95. 95
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Major Major Major Major: @dmsilev: loved (?) this response in the comments:

    I love America too much to ‘give it up’. I will fight for her always against her worst enemy-Liberals.

    Proof, as if I had required any, that this is there isn’t a bigger outcry so far on the Trump/Russian Connection: this is what conservatives and Republicans honestly believe. The only ones who are appalled are the ones who didn’t buy this notion – or were merely in the business of cynically selling this notion to the rubes.

  96. 96


    Resumes are easy. Just write one, fine-tune the other to cover the other career track, use decent fonts, keep it to one page as best as possible, and email it to every f-cker who’s hiring.

  97. 97
    p.a. says:

    @redshirt: Yes, to you-know-who-types, the General Staff is part of the problem.

  98. 98
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Mnemosyne: This. He must be kicked to the curb, then beaten like a red-headed stepchild in the curb. He and the white nationalists must be utterly destroyed.

  99. 99

    @Amir Khalid: Basically. Think of it as a form of harm reduction. Like methadone, or (for all you BoB’ers out there) voting for Hillary.

  100. 100
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Major Major Major Major: These were scheduled in September 2015 by the Independent Commission on Presidential Debates. You can’t just schedule them willy nilly. Friday and Saturday nights are out, because they’re weekend nights and no one will tune in. This leaves five nights. In the Fall, three of those four nights – Sunday, Monday, and Thursday, have football games. That leaves two nights – Tuesday and Wednesday – available for debates. That’s a very small window given the other scheduling issues. This is dominance politics. Every other time he’s pushed since entering the presidential race he’s won. So he thinks if he makes a scene here he’ll win again. This time he won’t, but his supporters won’t care.

  101. 101
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @p.a.: Well, we saw that at the end of Der Untergang, didn’t we? I say this as someone who once was ordered to wear General Staff insignia, and cover up my own branch in the process.

  102. 102


    This is a guy who openly draft-dodged when he was of age during the Vietnam War.

    This is a guy who doesn’t create jobs, he underpays the ones he hires and then bankrupts the place before fleeing to another scam.

    This is a guy whose idea of sacrifice is to cut back on the number of yachts with his name on it from eight to five because one of his bankers is insisting on loan payments.

  103. 103
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @germy: Its not that. He’d demand Fox News only with Sean Hannity as the moderator. And Jill Stein involved. All of those would be individually unacceptable to the Clinton campaign.

  104. 104
    dmsilev says:

    @Adam L Silverman: And late September/early October is of course the climax of the baseball season. Good luck trying to schedule around that. This is, as you say, just Trump trying to exert dominance over everything and everyone.

  105. 105

    @Adam L Silverman: I am aware. I still think it’d be a good move. “OK, fine, I’m willing to debate whenever, you guys go ahead, you have my blessing to move the schedule.” Makes her look Ready From Day One, takes away his talking point.

    ETA: Maybe have a surrogate go out and start pointing out holes in his campaign schedule where they’d be happy to debate. Turn dominance politics into mockery.

  106. 106
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @dmsilev: I read a summary earlier. What they’ve apparently done is created an artificial leaf/plant/lab based version of the natural process. We’ll have to wait for Tom Levenson to write a book until we know if its legit though…

  107. 107
    gindy51 says:

    @Major Major Major Major: I’m not being ridiculous. I am being practical You want the most eyeballs on an event, don’t schedule it to conflict with an event that draws millions away from yours. Pretty simple if you ask me.

  108. 108
    Anoniminous says:


    From your link:

    It is hoped the technology can be scaled for use in solar farms

    So the answer is “maybe.” Plenty of things that work at lab bench levels that are not able to make the leap to commercial viability.

  109. 109
    japa21 says:

    A good businessman (or woman) knows that creating jobs is not a sacrifice because a good businessman (or woman) knows that those jobs are an investment which brings in additional money to that good businessman (or woman). If he hired all those people and paid them and got nothing back, that could, I suppose, be called a sacrifice, but in actuality it just shows he is a bad businessman.

  110. 110

    @gindy51: I maintain that that’s ridiculous. There’s going to be a broad swath of the country who won’t or can’t watch a debate no matter when you schedule it. I also suspect that people mostly change their votes (if they do) based on highlight reels.

  111. 111
    scav says:

    Asking people, especially white guys to watch a game in non-real time and drop their asses in front of a debate instead? Talk about real sacrifice!

  112. 112
    PsiFighter37 says:

    @PaulWartenberg2016: Of course Stephanopoulos didn’t follow up as much as he could have (or should have).

    Things are getting a bit weird out there for sure, though. RedState has a post castigating Trump on this. It’s quite possible that some of these folks that I would have thought were absolute nuts will vote for Hillary because they aren’t completely insane.

  113. 113
    Doug R says:

    @germy: Converts sunlight into burnable fuel? It’s called plants.

  114. 114

    @scav: We must cater to their every whim and protect their delicate feelings!

    @Doug R: Plants take a little while to convert themselves into burnable fuel. It’s kind of a problem.

  115. 115
    Botsplainer, Neoliberal Corporatist Shill says:

    Here in the People’s Democratic Socialist Kenyan Shariah Republic of Louisville, we tend to jump on shit rather quickly when we realize there is a problem.

    Louisville Judge Goes Off on Jailers

    I know Amber – she’s very empathetic.

  116. 116
    mike in dc says:

    Trump didn’t even bother to acknowledge the bravery of the son or that family’s sacrifice. Just said the father seems like a nice guy and was “emotional”.

  117. 117
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    It’s not as though it’s any kind of surprise. The 2016 general election debate schedule was announced in September 2015, nearly a year ago. And while there was probably some consultation with both the DNC and RNC about dates/locations/formats, the governing authority is the Commission on Presidential Debates, not the Clinton campaign — whatever the Canard à l’orange may wish to claim.

    Edit: By the way, the NFL didn’t announce their schedule until April 2015. So saying that one debate is stepping on a football game is exactly backwards.

  118. 118
    ThresherK says:

    @RaflW: “Charismatic” is a bit generous. What is the word to describe him? The Germans must have one.

    I have some Irish blood on both sides of my family, and nowhere do I see that cliche of “telling someone to go to hell in a way that they’ll look forward to the trip”.

    As a non-pearl-clutcher, who doesn’t own a fainting couch, I like it when a public speaker knows how to ebb and flow with their vitriol. FDR and Reagan got a lot out of sunny confidence. FDR also said of some political enemies “they are unanimous in their hatred of me and I welcome their hatred”.

  119. 119
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Botsplainer, Neoliberal Corporatist Shill:
    I’m pretty sure the pre transport discussion went something like this:

    Hey Bob, think any one’ll notice if we bring the prisoner to court naked?

    No, Phil, I don’t think any one will even give it w passing thought.

    Great, because we’re running just on time and I thought we might stop for coffee and donuts on the way.

    That’s an excellent idea Phil. Well, we’re off. Just like the prisoner’s pants!

  120. 120

    @Adam L Silverman: I think the bigger issue might be that she was arrested in the first place for not completing a diversion program on a shoplifting charge.

    Obviously the clothing thing is awful, too.

  121. 121
    Anoniminous says:

    Pew Report A closer look at the gender gap in presidential voting is more evidence of the structural barriers to a Trump Presidency.

    An NBC News/Wall Street Journal survey fielded July 9-13 found women registered voters were 13 points more likely than men to back Clinton over Trump in a head-to-head contest. A CBS News poll conducted last week (July 22-24) has women registered voters 11 points more likely than men to support Clinton.

    Women were 53% of all voters in 2012 and favored Obama by 11 points. If Trump cannot eat into that margin of victory he can’t win, the votes just aren’t there.

  122. 122
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Major Major Major Major: The whole thing is a mess. This is part of the systemic breakdown in the system. The amount of money the local taxpayers spent to follow up, via arrest and incarceration, for the failure to complete the diversionary program is disproportional to the original offense and the original punishment.

  123. 123
    Keith G says:


    (yes Vox but this is a good piece).

    VOX consistently puts out some of the best policy/political stuff on the web. Since it does have to attract more that just the wonkish among us, it also put things out there that are pedestrian, but them’s da breaks.

  124. 124

    @Keith G: The problem I have with Vox–mostly with Ezra, I guess–is that he’s swallowed the Village line hook line and sinker, and he’s only 31. He had a revelation, what, last week? that maybe Hillary wasn’t completely full of shit about the fact that she listens to people. In a year of primary coverage, and after he covered 2008 as well, he still hadn’t come around to the notion that Hillary Clinton was a human being.

  125. 125
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Keyboard fat finger alert: I think you meant to type 2016 as the date for the NFL’s schedule release…eight months after the Presidential debate schedule was determined. Once again, Teh Donald’s “facts” are uncoordinated. Nomad, sterilize!

  126. 126
    p.a. says:

    @Anoniminous: Sadly, likely voters is a more accurate profile than registered voters. Happily, Trump is such a putz that, for women and minorities, it may be that likely => registered. Historically, it hasn’t, even in presidential years.

  127. 127
    Baud says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Yeah, on second thought, he wouldn’t agree to Johnson. Trump could end up in third place if Johnson got enough exposure.

  128. 128
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    I don’t know if you clicked through to the video clip link (here it is again), but truly, if I were his physician, or a loving member of his family, I’d be very, very concerned about his health. It’s not the first time I’ve made this observation, and I’m not the first to make it, but this is not a well man.

  129. 129
    Ruckus says:

    charismatic charlatan
    That does not describe drumpf in any way that I can think of. OK the second word, but combine the two and poof, that is no longer a valid description. Berlusconi is described by it but not drumpf. Drumpf has all the charisma of a broken leg or even closer, a case of flaming hemorrhoids.

  130. 130
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    You’re absolutely right, I did intend to type 2016. Not so much fat fingers as carelessness and trying to outrun the edit clock.

    (Looks at hands.)

    Okay, maybe fat fingers too.

  131. 131
    West of the Rockies (been a while) says:


    How absolutely fabulous would it be if this is viable technology!?!

  132. 132
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:


    Patton was my grandfather’s favorite movie. Colonel Allen watched it whenever it was on TV. I believe the purchase of a VCR was made when Patton came out on tape.

    The movie isn’t the real man.

  133. 133
    Jeffro says:


    I think the current thinking is that Trump will insist on Stein and Johnson so everyone, including the moderators, will be attacking Hillary instead of him.

    Hey the rules are the rules…gotta have 15% or you’re not in the debates. I’m sure he’ll rant about it being rigged, but DIAF, Donald.

    Btw the outrage du jour seems to be how he has attacked the Khan family, questioned why the mom didn’t speak at the convention, while Trumpkins claim that their dead son could not have been a true Muslim if he was ‘honestly’ serving in the US military (and vice versa). Folks, push back on this – whether the mom speaks or not is none of Trump’s business, and arguing about it just allows him to keep dodging their very powerful questions.

  134. 134
    PurpleGirl says:

    @redshirt: It’s those last years of high school that he spent at NY Military Academy. They really did substitute for being in the Army. //snark//

  135. 135
    Mnemosyne says:

    Interesting article in Buzzfeed about how the DNC countered the BoB protesters. Short version, they prevented them from bringing in objects that could be thrown (like rolls of toilet paper) and had Clinton delegates standing in front of them to block them from view with larger signs. Because while they have a right to protest, there’s no right to not have other people counter-protest more loudly and with bigger signs.

    (Also, there were apparently a few moles within the Bernie delegation who were horrified that these assholes were acting this way, so not even all BoBs were on board with the disruptions.)

  136. 136
    Botsplainer, Neoliberal Corporatist Shill says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Metro Corrections has always been a problem, as the leadership inevitably falls back on current standards to justify sloppy behavior. Replacement at the policy making level is difficult.

    That said, the real issue was with whomever thought it a good idea to handle an incomplete diversion as a moment to make an arrest.

  137. 137
    cckids says:

    @lamh36: Holy shit. I just haven’t got the words for that. And yet she stayed with the campaign. And it never really got any better. WTF.

  138. 138
    Jeffro says:


    Trump’s argument against Khan’s speech? “Why didn’t she speak?”

    Don’t try to explain or ‘justify’ or even answer this dumb, evasive question of his – don’t fall into his framing here. ANSWER THE KHANS, TRUMP!

  139. 139
    patrick II says:


    There is always a football game on Sunday and Monday nights in the fall, so it makes no difference that the the two debates on those nights were scheduled before the football schedule was published. However, if I was Hillary, I would offer to debate Trump two more times on non-football nights (Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday) and see what happens.

  140. 140
    ThresherK says:

    @PurpleGirl: Well, that’s Reaganesque, at least.

    I think in Reagan’s (pre-Presidential) autobiography he wrote,

    “After the (Second World) war the first thing I wanted to do when I got back home was to make love to my wife.”

  141. 141
    germy says:

    Restrictions on early and weekend voting implemented by Wisconsin Republicans over the last five years are unconstitutional, a federal judge ruled Friday.

    U.S. District Judge James Peterson found a series of other voting changes signed into law by Gov. Scott Walker to be unconstitutional, but did not overturn the state’s photo identification requirement.

    “Wisconsin’s strict version of voter ID law is a cure worse than the disease,” Peterson wrote, before noting he is bound by earlier cases in Wisconsin and Indiana to reject the challenge to the law in its entirety.


    Peterson — who was appointed to the bench by President Barack Obama in 2014 — also overturned laws that increased the residency requirement for voters from 10 days to 28 days, prohibited distributing absentee ballots by fax or email and required “dorm lists” used as proof of residence to include citizenship information.

  142. 142
    Anoniminous says:


    I agree. At this point we can only paint with very broad brush strokes. But even so we can see Clinton is in a way better starting position than Donald.

  143. 143
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:


    A reporter on twitter interviewed a Berniebro from the Oregon delegation, who complained, without irony, about suffering devastating marginalization – he was the victim of several ‘microaggressions’ – his words – like ‘dirty looks and shushing, and having someone wave their sign in front of his’. Beyond parody, beyond contempt, beyond cluelessness. The reporter claimed she didn’t laugh at him.

  144. 144
    Mnemosyne says:


    I’d have to look it up, but I’m pretty sure that the “likely voter” screens that the pollsters were using in 2008 and 2012 turned out to not hold up well because the Obama campaign did turn out “non-traditional” voters.

    Also, of course, the number of “likely voters” becomes much more accurate as we get closer to the election and people make up their minds about whether or not they’re going to vote.

  145. 145
    germy says:

    @ThresherK: But Ronald spent WWII in California, doing broadcasting.

  146. 146
    Anoniminous says:


    From the Reagan Library

    Lieutenant Reagan was ordered to active duty on 19 April 1942. Due to eyesight difficulties, he was classified for limited service only, which excluded him from serving overseas. His first assignment was at the San Francisco Port of Embarkation at Fort Mason, California, as liaison officer of the Port and Transportation Office. Upon the request of the Army Air Forces (AAF), he applied for a transfer from the Cavalry to the AAF on 15 May 1942; the transfer was approved on 9 June 1942. He was assigned to AAF Public Relations and subsequently to the 1st Motion Picture Unit in Culver City, California. Reagan was promoted to First Lieutenant on 14 January 1943 and was sent to the Provisional Task Force Show Unit of This Is The Army at Burbank, California. Following this duty, he returned to the 1st Motion Picture Unit, and on 22 July 1943 was promoted to Captain.

    In January 1944, Captain Reagan was ordered to temporary duty in New York City to participate in the opening of the sixth War Loan Drive. He was assigned to the 18th AAF Base Unit, Culver City, California on 14 November 1944, where he remained until the end of the war. He was recommended for promotion to Major on 2 February 1945, but this recommendation was disapproved on July 17 of that year. On 8 September 1945, he was ordered to report to Fort MacArthur, California, where he was separated from active duty on 9 December 1945.

    What a posturing a-hole.

  147. 147
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @ThresherK: Got back home from Camp Roach? That was a commute on the red car…

  148. 148
    Mnemosyne says:

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne:

    I know, it’s so weird that when you do something rude that makes you unpopular, people ignore and shun you.

    The privilege, it burns!

  149. 149
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Anoniminous: Hey, Captain America himself was busy with war bond drives for the first year or so of his service!

  150. 150
    PigDog says:

    The military runs on email and PowerPoint.

    That’s how I knew Lindsay Graham was lying when he said he’d never used email – he’s a friggin’ reserve colonel.

  151. 151
    germy says:

    @Anoniminous: His purple heart is next to Jonah Goldberg’s pulitzer.

  152. 152
    M31 says:


    if Johnson got enough exposure

    well when you put it like that

  153. 153
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:


    The participation trophy/extra test time generation. No wonder they chose to wear Robin Hood Peter Pan hats.

  154. 154
    Baud says:


    Also, there were apparently a few moles within the Bernie delegation who were horrified that these assholes were acting this way

    American heroes.

    Good for them.

  155. 155
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @Baud: e

    ah, on second thought, he wouldn’t agree to Johnson. Trump could end up in third place if Johnson got enough exposure.

    I could see that. I really can’t see many conservatives being happy with Trump. Trump’s like something out of a banana republic than any American political movement.

  156. 156
    Baud says:

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: I read somewhere that the most prominent Peter Pan guy was never a buster and plans to vote for Hillary.

  157. 157
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    Posting a link to a you tube video gets the post deleted? It’s your’ guys blog but seems a bit random to me.

  158. 158
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:


    The crying guy? Yeah, he was emotional but he’s not a loon. The rest of them can bite me.

  159. 159

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: Was it a bare link? Those are no-no’s now.

    ETA: Clinton and Kaine are live now. Watching on Facebook.

  160. 160
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    No naked links – you have to use the html tags provided for your convenience.

  161. 161
    Baud says:


    Senator Sanders found out about it later, and he and his wife, Jane, were horrified.

    Sanders doesn’t get a lot of love here, but I happy to see that this was his reaction. But the rest of it… unbelievable.

  162. 162
    PurpleGirl says:

    Re the Sanders supporters: I watched the 1960 Democratic Convention. I loved the concept of the state favorite son and multiple votes. But the fiasco that was 1968 put an end to that, the parties came up with the primary system to lock in the votes before the Convention so there couldn’t be the backroom deals and vote trading, etc. Under the current system there is no way Sanders could trade votes or Jill Stein either. These idiots are ignorant about the late 20th Century politics.

  163. 163
    Ruckus says:

    Doing something like electrochemically reducing CO2 would be great. Doing it on a scale to accomplish anything useful may be an issue, as scaling often is.

  164. 164
    Baud says:

    @PurpleGirl: TV really put an end to the old convention antics.

    And to some extent, the Cold War as well, given the belief that the president needed go be seen as strong and in control.

  165. 165

    @Ruckus: Recapture & sequestration is… interesting, even if it does sound like the setup for a sci-fi novel when “something goes wrong!”

  166. 166
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:


    Sanders deliberately went after white working class votes – don’t admire him for acknowledging something he set out to exploit. He’s a giant fucking hypocrite.

  167. 167
    amygdala says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: I completely agree with this. Campaigning does no one’s health any favors. Crunch time hasn’t even started yet, and he just looks bad.

  168. 168
    Mnemosyne says:

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne:

    I would say that, as with most well-meaning things, participation trophies and extra test time got exploited by privileged middle-class white people. Kids with dyslexia or other learning disabilities actually may need extra test time.

    A kid who’s not that great at a sport or activity but really throws themselves into it with enthusiasm and supports their teammates should get some kind of acknowledgement that their time, effort, and enthusiasm was appreciated even if they weren’t very good. (In fact, I was that kid, which was why I got to travel with my team to the Speech Team semi-finals downstate: I didn’t make the cut to perform, but I was in the audience for my teammates’ performances to support them.)

    But then, privileged middle-class white parents said, But it isn’t fffaaaaiiiiirrrr that their kid gets a trophy for making a good effort while my kid was sulking on the sidelines! Where’s my precious little snowflake’s trophy? and a meme was born.

  169. 169
    sukabi says:

    @Major Major Major Major: well, the judge smacked them for the lack of clothes, the physical state of the woman (hygiene, not providing the means to clean up), and that she was jailed for several days for her infraction.

    Hopefully the judge will follow up with some kind of investigation into what exactly is going on in their jails.

  170. 170

    Tim Kaine is totally America’s dad.

  171. 171
    Baud says:

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: I actually agree. One of his first ads which got a lot of praise by liberal bloggers (the America ad) was almost all white people. I do think, however, that he was naive as opposed to calculating like the Republicans are.

  172. 172
    ThresherK says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: And he still found time to punch out Hitler.

    Actually, I can’t name the book, but one of the neater things I remember reading re the history of comics was how Superman became 4F: Clark Kent was so eager to do his part for the war effort that he didn’t turn off his X-ray vision, and read the eye chart in the next exam room at the Army induction physical. Instantly failed it.

    It solved at one stroke how an indestructible person should avoid being in the actual military (at a time when the war’s outcome was much in doubt) while still giving plenty of opportunity for us to know where his sympathies were.

  173. 173
    Ruckus says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:
    Added up we make 2 billion suns. Bet there are more of us.

  174. 174
    Mr Stagger Lee says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: Carlo D’Este who wrote an biography on Patton, thought the movie Patton was more of an attempt to make Omar Bradley an American Legend at the expense of Patton, then again Bradley was an technical advisor to the film as well as much of the movie was from his book.

  175. 175
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:


    No, that was his deliberate strategy – carving a path through the whiter northern and caucus states, and conceding the minority vote to Clinton. His theory is that the Dems conceded the white working class – a big voting bloc – to Republicans. Maybe by naive you mean he has a blind spot, but Devine most definitely knows how electoral politics works at the primary level and how Obama won. Devine just got paid to dismiss the reason why, and without dismissiveness of well, everything we know about politics, Sanders didn’t have a campaign and a reason to believe he could do it better.

  176. 176

    @Baud: He was calculating. He’s on record as intentionally going after working class whites. He thinks that if liberals can bring them back into the fold they’ll be unstoppable. Which isn’t wrong, I suppose, but that horse has sailed.

  177. 177
    Mnemosyne says:


    Well, of course Superman was eager to fight the Nazis since he was a Jewish Kryptonian kid found in a basket of reeds space capsule by Egyptian royalty Kansas farmers.

    Now I feel like I should re-read The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Klay.

  178. 178
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Ironically, I think Trump may do more to drive at least a few working-class whites back to the Democratic Party than Bernie ever could. Families who have loved ones fighting overseas in the military or who have lost those family members are not going to be pleased with Trump’s comments about the Khan family.

  179. 179
    Baud says:

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: @Mnemosyne:

    I was unclear. I understand he went after that vote. I think he was naive in the effect his campaign would have in stoking racial prejudice as described by Simone Sanders in the excerpt lamh36 posted. Maybe I’m wrong about him, but I don’t believe that he wanted to do that, unlike say Trump or George Wallace.

  180. 180
    sm*t cl*de says:

    IIRC, Patton was not so keen on anyone he thought was malingering and avoiding military service.

  181. 181
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @PurpleGirl: I said to someone that it seemed like the Bernie Or Bust people believed that the convention worked like Battle of the Bands and if they were just loud enough they’d win anyway.

  182. 182
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:


    Gotcha. That’s some needle to thread though. He needs to get out of Vermont more.

    ETA: Actually, no he doesn’t – he needs to go home and stay there.

  183. 183
    Splitting Image says:


    charismatic charlatan
    That does not describe drumpf in any way that I can think of. OK the second word, but combine the two and poof, that is no longer a valid description. Berlusconi is described by it but not drumpf. Drumpf has all the charisma of a broken leg or even closer, a case of flaming hemorrhoids.

    I think “charismatic” is a good descriptor for Trump at least in a very limited sense of the word. I’ve often heard that good con artists make hay out of the fact that the best marks do half of the work themselves. Some people have a very specific image in mind when they think of “successful businessman”, and Trump is extremely good at playing these people for suckers. Or at least he was for a long time. He’s lost a bit on his fastball this year.

    Scott Dilbert Adams may be a dolt, but he said awhile back that this election is pitting everyone who supports alpha male dominance games against everyone else. I think he’s right, but mistaken about which group makes up the majority.

  184. 184
    Tokyokie says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: The great Sam Fuller — to my knowledge, the only major filmmaker to land on Omaha Beach on D-Day — despised Patton, and hey, that’s good enough for me.

  185. 185
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: This sounds a lot like Thomas Frank. It’s like, everyone loves populism so just go do populism and you can’t lose — unless someone undermines you, betrays you, sells you out, etc. And it’s not surprising that it’s a theory much embraced by white assholes, because it lets them act like it’s not their fault if they try this and lose, because obviously someone undermined them or they would have won easily. The alternative, which is that their strategy is flawed and unpersuasive, is too awful for them to consider.

  186. 186
    Ruckus says:

    @Major Major Major Major:
    True but I was commenting on the difference between it being possible and being useful. That difference can be micron sized or it can be the distance between here and the sun. The theoretical and the provable are getting closer together, the distance between the provable and the useful can be problematic in many major ways. Safety, cost, practicality, size-output, etc.

  187. 187
    J R in WV says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    I think MacArthur believed he WAS commander-in-chief, until Truman disabused him of that loco idea. Harry took care of that problem, though.

  188. 188
    Mnemosyne says:


    I tend to agree with you: he deliberately went after the white working-class vote, but underestimated the extent to which that demographic votes based on racism. Naive, perhaps bordering on willfully blind, but not the conscious, deliberate stoking of white supremacists that we’ve seen from Trump.

  189. 189
    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: The CPD was set up by the Democratic and Republican parties (after taking the debates away from the League of Women Voters). Of course the proposed debates were (most likely) set up with consultation with the parties.

    (Who thinks they were much better when the LWV ran them.)

  190. 190
    Mnemosyne says:


    Fuller was the only one who was there as an actual soldier, but John Ford and his camera crews were there, too, which is why we have as much footage of the battle as we do.

    I can’t reccomend Mark Harris book Five Came Back highly enough if you’re even vaguely interested in WWII and filmmaking. Of the major directors who went, William Wyler was the most physically damaged (he was mostly deaf for the rest of his life) and George Stevens was the most psychologically damaged, because he was assigned to document the death camps.

    (Fuller also drew the same duty though, again, as a soldier. He didn’t have to film hours of survivor testimony like Stevens did.)

  191. 191
    Anne Laurie says:

    @sm*t cl*de:

    IIRC, Patton was not so keen on anyone he thought was malingering and avoiding military service.

    … whom he called “goldbrickers” (why I included that last tweet).

    Among Patton’s numerous flaws was his conviction that ‘shell shocked’ soldiers were just faking it, that they could be cured by a sufficiently strong personality yelling at them to man up. Confronted with a young Donald Trump whining about bone spurs in his foot, I suspect Patton would’ve reached whole new levels of vituperation… assuming his beleaguered staff could keep him from actually shooting Trump on the spot.

    (Trivia: Gen. Patton, Abigail Adams, Dostoyevsky and Kurt Vonnegut were all born on the same day, November 11. A good day for writers & pessimists!)

  192. 192
    Ruckus says:

    @Splitting Image:
    A good con depends on people believing in something, a high percentage return (Madoff), the return to absolute power of the white race (Trump), and in the case of Trump’s prior life, sparkly stuff. A business friend of my ex used to call them shinny pennies. You give away something of little value for a lot of return. It doesn’t take charisma, it takes wanting something for nothing. It takes bullshit. And Trump used to be a master of bullshit. He still is for those wanting something they can’t buy or even beat out of someone, racial superiority. But charisma? Mr and Mrs Khan have it in 55 gal drum fulls, Trump not even a half a thimble. He’s never had any more and he will never understand why or how to have it.

  193. 193
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:


    Pretty much why when the good paying jobs leave white communities, whites exhibit all the same pathologies as urban communities have all along, but only whites are turning to Trump. Almost like their resentment is misplaced and ready to be exploited by a white bwana of the right or left, the extremes of which always meet in the same eliminationist place, where the ‘stabbed in the back by corrupt forces’ reasons thrive.

  194. 194
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Splitting Image:

    Scott Dilbert Adams may be a dolt, but he said awhile back that this election is pitting everyone who supports alpha male dominance games against everyone else. I think he’s right, but mistaken about which group makes up the majority.

    THIS. I’ve been saying the same thing. Most women and non-whites are far less impressed by white male alpha dominance games than white men. And that goes double for African-American women (the Dems’ most loyal voting block) and other women of color.

    IMO, that’s one of the reasons Obama has done so well against the Republicans: he knows and conveys to his audience that white alpha male dominance games are childish bullshit, and he doesn’t respond the same way a white dude would.

  195. 195

    @J R in WV: That being what I meant, yes :D

  196. 196
    J R in WV says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    This vet loathes the donald with the heat of nova suns.

    I’m not trying to compete, I just didn’t remember how many suns you said, so I needed another metaphore that was close.

  197. 197
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Anne Laurie:

    I was temped to post a link to the famous Private Snafu cartoon about goldbrickers, but it needs an “offensive racial stereotypes” warning, so I’ll let people seek it out on YouTube for themselves.

  198. 198
    Anne Laurie says:

    @Splitting Image:

    I think “charismatic” is a good descriptor for Trump at least in a very limited sense of the word. I’ve often heard that good con artists make hay out of the fact that the best marks do half of the work themselves. Some people have a very specific image in mind when they think of “successful businessman”, and Trump is extremely good at playing these people for suckers. Or at least he was for a long time. He’s lost a bit on his fastball this year.

    Remember when Jane Goodall reported on the male chimp who greatly improved his status ranking by using empty oil drums to make a yuuuuuge noise, making up for his comparatively small size?

    Us primates seem to be primed to pay attention to Acting-Out Crazy… especially, counterintuitively, when we’re feeling stressed. It’s one theory as to why ADHD hasn’t been ‘bred out’ of the human gene pool — people follow That Watchable Nutball, and when ‘normal’ tribal behavior is no longer adaptive (the game herds have shifted migration paths, or drought’s dried up the usual waterholes) there’s a failsafe to having a charismatic non-neurotypical insisting that it’s worth the effort to try something different, because trust me!!!

    (The other 95% of the time we those Watchable Nutballs are just pains in the neck, but we’re the descendants of the clans who didn’t just hunker down and die waiting for things to go back to normal.)

    Trump is hooting & flinging oil drums for the attention of “his” tribe of Aging White Male Supremcists/Racists. They know the world is no longer the way it should be, and they’re wondering whether it’s worth the risk of following him… over that cliff into the gorge…

  199. 199
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Mnemosyne: This is an important distinction that everyone needs to grok, between Bernie and Drumpf. The MSM, naturally, doesn’t want to see that, it interferes with their narrative, that there is something righteous about the Drumpf phenomenon.

  200. 200
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Mnemosyne: I remember when you first articulated that — I think there’s a lot to it…

  201. 201
    sm*t cl*de says:

    @Anne Laurie:

    whom he called “goldbrickers” (why I included that last tweet).

    I read “goldbricker” as “con-man” and was confused. Need moar coffee.


    he tries to say that he “sacrificed” by giving money to veterans groups

    Didn’t Trump claim to have raised $6 million for veteran charities by going AWOL from a debate and staging his own event, only later — much later, under pressure and with much complaint — turning over $1 million? If the funds existed, the vast bulk stayed in his sticky, fraudulent, curiously short-fingered paws.

  202. 202

    […] the McCain POW diss, the “I know more than the generals” declaration, and above all, today’s “I’ve sacrificed” bathos, I’m going to stick with the notion that he would have left the Cheetos-faced ferret-topped […]

  203. 203
    Ruckus says:

    As a follow up to my reply to Splitting Image.
    Sanders was a con job as well. It’s just that Sanders probably wasn’t in on the con. Many of us bought in to the con when it started but we later recognized that it was a false premise, that while he was serious, the con wasn’t. Many others still want to believe. The different part from a normal con is that what he stood to get out of the con was power and fame rather than money. At the end I don’t think he could even do the basic job of president, and he wasn’t trying to. He wanted to spread his ideals. IOW it wasn’t a regular con. Trump is a regular con, being perpetrated by someone who has lost the ability to use bullshit but not to generate it.

  204. 204
    guachi says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    “Mr. Khan is right. I haven’t sacrificed much. And that’s something I regret, you know? If I could do it over I’d have joined the armed forces, I have great respect for our men and women and uniform and of course we all honor Mr. Khan’s sacrifice.

    We live in dangerous times. Humayun Khan was killed by a car bomb placed by radical Islamic jihadists. And in Iraq, this is a country, where by letting people like this run wild, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama have actually made us less safe. They created ISIS. ISIS, ISIS is people like this, the radical Islamic terrorists who killed Humayun Khan, may he rest in peace. When I’m president, we are going to destroy these people so hard, they won’t even have a car to put a bomb in.”

    I’m quoting this in its entirety from way, way above in comments.

    Your fake Trump response is brilliant. “They won’t even have a car to put a bomb in” is awesome.

    Thankfully Trump is too stupid to take the obvious openings the press give him.

  205. 205
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:


    I think Jane is the con artist. I think she was the Bernie whisperer along with Weaver keeping the delusions going long after it was over, since Devine more or less disappeared from TV after New York. Jane was behind the stalking the Pope trip, and probably her take of the fund raising haul is the reason why no personal financial info has been released. Burlington College is on her, too.

  206. 206
    Tokyokie says:

    @Mnemosyne: And don’t forget, Ford was on Midway Island when the Japanese attacked it. The guy got around pretty well for a one-eyed Irishman (enough so that I’ll give him a pass for the profoundly racist Donovan’s Reef.) As for Fuller, he filmed the liberation of Falkenau in his role as his unit’s historian. I’ve heard that once Fuller’s mom sent him the windup Bell & Howell 16mm movie camera that he used at Falkenau, he became largely useless as a soldier, but by that time, he’d fought across North Africa, Sicily, and a large part of Europe, so I’ll give him a pass, too. (And besides, he went on to destroy his Hollywood career by making the profoundly anti-racist White Dog.)

  207. 207
  208. 208
    J R in WV says:


    I believe that Patton has the distinction of being the only Army officer to use tanks against American veterans of WW I. I can’t spell out the casualty numbers, but Patton was at the time under the direct command of Douglas MAcArthur, who ordered Patton to use tanks against peaceful American Veterans of WW I.

    Look it up. Both of them were cast-iron ego-mad bastards. They would hate Trump if they were alive today.

  209. 209
    Bess says:


    The first task it to stop extracting fossil fuels and releasing the carbon in them into the atmosphere. We’ve got a very workable solution for most vehicles. Battery prices are dropping rapidly and we should reach manufacturing cost parity between EVs and ICEVs by 2020 and the cost of EVs should drop below that of ICEVs by 2025.

    Batteries are working well for cars and buses. We’re starting to see them moving into large trucks. But there are some places where it would take very large increases in capacity per weight/volume before we could use them to power a passenger aircraft. A synthetic fuel could fill that niche. Farm and construction equipment working far from the grid are other places where a carbon neutral fuel would be valuable.

    A synfuel is not likely to push out batteries in cars. Solar and wind are becoming very affordable. The distribution grid is already in place. And electric motors are hugely more efficient than internal combustion engines and fuel cells.

  210. 210
    TriassicSands says:


    “charismatic charlatan”

    OK, I understand the charlatan part — it fits Trump to a T.

    But charismatic?

    That I just can’t understand. Trump is so repugnant, so creepy, so obviously an idiot, how does charismatic fit it? I’ve never been able to figure out how anyone finds Trump charismatic or anything else attractive. The man is a buffoon and a self-absorbed a-hole. Who finds that charismatic? To me, Trump has less charisma than Arnold Stang (apologies to the young) — but at least Stang wasn’t a mean-spirited prick.

    @J R in WV:

    Yes, one of America’s great military victories — crushing the Bonus Army.

  211. 211
    Ruckus says:

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne:
    It is quite possible that Jane is the con leader.
    But I’m more in line with the entire thing was a con that the perpetrator didn’t actually know was a con. Sounds a bit far fetched but falls along the line of he didn’t actually start wanting the job, he wanted to make his ideals better known and saw a run for president as giving them serious cachet. And then those ideals resonated with a group of people and he bought into the con.

  212. 212
    Anne Laurie says:

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: Don’t know enough about Jane personally to blame her for Bernie’s bad behavior. But as someone who grew up in the same period in a family very much like hers, in a neighborhood not far from her, I’m pretty darn sure she’s programmed by both temperament & training to resist, fight back under pressure reflexively, rather than first considering whether her ‘attackers’ might have some point. Passive-aggressive narcissists guys like Bernie tend to pick up partners like that — not just Jane, but also Jeff Weaver. Natural ‘battlers’ look for a figurehead / cause that will ensure they (we) always have something to fight for. If we’re lucky, we pick sensible causes (or at least partners) rather than falling into a folie a deux with someone who wants to be the bride at every wedding and the corpse at every funeral!

  213. 213
    Dadadadadadada says:

    @RaflW: Trump is charismatic? Who knew?

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