FLOTEESI, Lady to The House of White, Matron of the Free World, First of the States United, Beyonce's Beyonce. pic.twitter.com/6HHUSDZBRm
— X (@XLNB) July 26, 2016
Dems Day One Afternoon was worse than GOP Day One Afternoon.
Day One Evening was better. Much better.— Wyeth Ruthven (@wyethwire) July 26, 2016
The general election matchup:
Clinton/Kaine/Obama
vs.
Trump/Pence/Putin
— Dean Barker (@deanbarker) July 23, 2016
Great to see a convention crowd that actually represents the diversity of our great nation.
Last week's crowd was older & whiter than me.
— John Dingell (@JohnDingell) July 26, 2016
Contrast in the diversity/inclusion at DNC vs RNC is striking in delegates, donors, speakers, entertainment. My GOP has a lot of work to do.
— Ana Navarro (@ananavarro) July 26, 2016
Dems have so many more delegates than GOP, delegations extend up the arena. At RNC all delegates fit on floor. pic.twitter.com/Gl79JuazE5
— Josh Barro (@jbarro) July 25, 2016
Elizabeth Warren is scaring me a little. Not in a Trump way. In a "Holy shit, I better finish that paper" way.
— The Rude Pundit (@rudepundit) July 26, 2016
1st night of DNC,
Cory Booker
Michelle Obama
Joe Kennedy
Liz Warren
Bernie Sanders1st night of RNC
Duck Dynasty guy
Rick Perry
Scott Baio— Janie Velencia (@JanieVelencia) July 26, 2016
Dems in array
— Gabriel Debenedetti (@gdebenedetti) July 26, 2016
Dems in formation. https://t.co/n0sbwoZIAj
— Ezra Mechaber (@ezramechaber) July 26, 2016
Blast from the past. They're going to find that whitey tape any day now. pic.twitter.com/Jhbud89chk
— Paul Waldman (@paulwaldman1) July 26, 2016
Somewhere a nervous, sweaty Paul Manafort is thinking “Please don’t let him tweet about FLOTUS”
— Allahpundit (@allahpundit) July 26, 2016
.@FLOTUS speech gets the @NYDailyNews to change their front page. Will it change the narrative of this day, too? pic.twitter.com/qda0PEBb0p
— Bradd Jaffy (@BraddJaffy) July 26, 2016
raven
Everyone must have stayed up for the whole thing.
Big R
Good morning from Poland! Today I present my paper, on [SOMETHING NO ONE ON BJ IS INTERESTED IN AND I’M BARELY INTERESTED IN]. After that, I’m done with everything I’m supposed to do at this conference, so it’s just “go to stuff I’m interested in,” “flirt with pretty girls,” and “play tourist.”
Considering going to a soccer game Friday afternoon. Thoughts?
ETA: The titles for Mrs. Obama were kind of ho-hum until I hit “Beyonce’s Beyonce.” Yeah, that’s true.
Baud
Haha Dingell.
Anyone wondering why Clinton is unpopular should look at that National Review tweet and understand they’ve been doing much worse to Hillary for about three times as long.
LOL Ass Warfare. Almost wish they had stayed with that.
Baud
@raven: I’m going to be miserable this week when it comes to sleep.
SFAW
@raven:
What “whole thing”? Was there something going on last night? It’s too early for the Series, too late (but only by a little) for the Stanley Cup.
I’ll have to figure it out, I guess.
rikyrah
Good Morning ?, Everyone ?
SFAW
Of course, Manafort’s probably thinking that in Russian. Or perhaps he received a call, saying those words to him, in Russian?
rikyrah
I want John Dingell’s twitter game when I grow up ☺
SFAW
@rikyrah:
Good morning, youngster!
Schlemazel Khan
@raven:
I went to bed when bernie came on. I have never heard Warren give a speech, she didn’t blow me away. I heard Booker give a talk at the MLK Day lunch here in Mpls about 5 years ago and, like last night, he is an A+ star. Mrs O? I have never not been impressed, what a natural talent & what a great representative of our nation, as crappy & undeserving of her as we are. I really don’t like that picture of here here – way too severe.
I posted yesterday that the last bernfeeler in my small circle made it obvious yesterday about 9AM that she was fully on board with Clinton so we have that going for us, which is nice.
David ?▶️Hillary/Harley Quinn 2016▶️? Koch
Big R
@SFAW: The call to Manafort said “if he tweets about Michelle, your body will never be found.”
dr. bloor
@Big R:
Possibly the only thing that involves less scoring that flirting with pretty girls?
raven
@SFAW: I managed to make Michelle but it takes a lot for me to stay up much past 10.
David ?▶️Hillary/Harley Quinn 2016▶️? Koch
If I wasn’t already involved with Harley Quinn, I’d be pursuing this badaaass (photo)
raven
@Schlemazel Khan: Ditto
David ?▶️Hillary/Harley Quinn 2016▶️? Koch
Big R
@dr. bloor: If I do them both right…oh, who am I kidding. I’m not going to score at either event.
Baud
@Schlemazel Khan: Good news.
David ?▶️Hillary/Harley Quinn 2016▶️? Koch
Liz is very phunny. If you don’t already read her – you should.
David ?▶️Hillary/Harley Quinn 2016▶️? Koch
David ?▶️Hillary/Harley Quinn 2016▶️? Koch
Schlemazel Khan
Jen Sorenson is a cartoonist I have not seen much of but I thought this one was a good take on the Drumpfster fire
AnonPhenom
Man, that was a nice party! Anybody got some Advil?
Baud
@raven: People like you are why I’m kind of glad they switched the order.
Schlemazel Khan
I saw that Nate Silver is running around playing the ‘too close to call’ game which I am sure should get him the attention he appears to crave. I plan on working for Clinton and other Dems this fall, nothing for granted, but I refuse to believe Drumpf is not going to get buried in November. Losing badly with every sector except white men I don’t see how he can create an electoral map to victory. Add in the Republican Gov of Ohio is actively working against him.
My only concern is how the nut jobs are going to take this loss. He has them turned up to 11 and ready to believe anything. I hope things don’t get ugly this winter after he goes down in flames.
OzarkHillbilly
@raven: What happened? Did they go to extra innings?
amk
The Closer has got to do what a closer has got to do.
rikyrah
Best FLOTUS EVER! !!????
amk
putin & wikileaks today.
SFAW
@Big R:
That was kind of implied. Time to be less abstruse. (Me, not you.)
Amir Khalid
The title of the latest video on HA Goodman’s YouTube channel:
David ?▶️Hillary/Harley Quinn 2016▶️? Koch
Baud
@Amir Khalid:
I thank Sarah Silverman for giving us the go-to line for these guys.
David ?▶️Hillary/Harley Quinn 2016▶️? Koch
amk
@Schlemazel Khan: nate is sooo 2008. giordano warned this would happen when he encashed his reputation for msm gig.
Baud
@Schlemazel Khan:
@amk:
Horrible author also. I bought his book and am having the toughest time finishing it.
Randy P
@raven:
Almost. Was out for the evening, but tuned in time for Cory Booker. I had to get up at 4 am and kept telling myself “go to bed, you idiot!” but I was glued to the screen, even when I started eyerolling after Bernie took the podium. I couldn’t make myself go to bed until I heard whether he was actually going to acknowledge who the candidate was. Seems like it took at least 10 minutes even to mention Hillary’s name.
After he finally endorsed the actual candidates, I called it a night.
Randy P
Dammit, FYWP ate my comment just now and last night.
Testing…
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud: What was it?
David ?▶️Hillary/Harley Quinn 2016▶️? Koch
Patricia Kayden
@Baud: Yes, I applauded the hell out of her zinger. Good for Silverman for saying what needed to be said.
Baud
@OzarkHillbilly:
“To the ‘Bernie or Bust’ people, you’re being ridiculous.”
SFAW
@amk:
I’ve started checking Princeton (Sam Wang). Unfortunately, I check about 27 times per day, as if there would suddenly be some sort of meaningful change.
What I need to do is write a script (or whatever the right term is) that, when I go there more than once per day, it blares out “Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? How about now? Are we there yet? How about NOW? Are we there yet?” until I break myself of the addicition.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: I’m still plowing through ‘Before the Storm’, I’m up to November 22, 1963. Nobody tell me what happened that day.
mapaghimagsik
@Amir Khalid:
True believer or rodent fornicating?
Does it make a difference?
BruceFromOhio
@raven: It was totally worth it; Booker, FLOTUS both hit home runs. Warren was the steady voice putting the hurt on the shouting yam, and reminding all what it’s about.
If you can connect with one of the many links to the First Lady’s speech, I recommend checking it out.
@Amir Khalid: Yes, in a direct contradiction to, oh, I don’t know, what he said live on national television at a convention attended by tens of thousands.
Aimai
@David ?▶️Hillary/Harley Quinn 2016▶️? Koch: bwahhaaa!
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud: Well, duhhhhhhhhh.
Ultraviolet Thunder
I feel a little more confident today. The Democratic Party is still a hot mess but it feels like HOME again.
Baud
@OzarkHillbilly:
The context is that she is a huge Bernie supporter, but not crazy, so she was talking about supporting Hillary and was getting heckled.
Aimai
@rikyrah: i sobbed like a baby watching michelle speak.
amk
Michael Cohen @speechboy71
So tonight’s last five DNC speakers – a black First Lady, a white Senator, a Muslim congressman, a Jewish Senator and an Irish-American pol
David ?▶️Hillary/Harley Quinn 2016▶️? Koch
@?BillinGlendaleCA: spoiler alert: Rafael Cruz has lunch on the grassy knoll.
amk
@SFAW: LOL. Wang was better, both in 2008 and 2012. I check only from October. Rest is all bs.
Quinerly
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
I really enjoyed it almost as much as “Nixonland.” Wasn’t able to get through Pearlstein’s last one, though. Will give it another try this winter.
Luthe
@BruceFromOhio: HAHA knows what is in Bernie’s heart. The mean ol’ DNC probably was FORCING Bernie to endorse Hillary by threatening to release his tax returns. Won’t anyone
think of the childrenBernie’s hidden finances?David ?▶️Hillary/Harley Quinn 2016▶️? Koch
@Ultraviolet Thunder:
Matt McIrvin
@SFAW: Since Sam’s state-poll aggregation lags the national numbers, PEC may give you a heart attack over the next few days–when Trump’s convention bounce is being reflected but any DNC bounce isn’t.
amk
Drew Linzer’s votamatic was also the best in 2012 with least noise. But he seems to have quit now. Bummer.
Ultraviolet Thunder
I had a small victory yesterday. A Libertarian Trump backing* colleague is always trying to discuss politics with me. Because he’s a dope. I got him to agree that under the circumstances the DNC should have prioritized HRC over Johnny come lately candidate Bernie. It’s a little more complicated than that, but he looked puzzled and confused that it would be any other way.
*loves his guns, wants all highways to be toll roads, no income taxes, etc.
Quinerly
Big Dawg tonight! He looked so worried at one point last night before Michelle’s speech. I swear I saw a tear in his eye when they cut to him during Michelle’s speech. Maybe just a twinkle. Definitely a relaxing in his shoulders.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Quinerly: I’ve been reading them backwards, so ‘Before the Storm’ is the last one to read.
@David ?▶️Hillary/Harley Quinn 2016▶️? Koch: I told you not to tell me anything.
Ultraviolet Thunder
@David ?▶️Hillary/Harley Quinn 2016▶️? Koch:
We contain multitudes. ‘Contain’ at best. Mostly they’re spilling out and trampling each other.
Amir Khalid
@mapaghimagsik:
If HA Goodman were rodent fornicating, I’d expect him to say things that were at least superficially believable. I think it’s somewhat more probable that he’s wandered off the sanatorium grounds unnoticed.
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud: My sarcasm was not directed at her, but at the people she was talking to.
MattF
The other thing about FLOTUS is that she drives the wingers nuts. We should consider an anti-Cleek’s Law– if something enrages the RW, it’s what we want.
And speaking of winger OCD, Kevin Drum gives a current example.
kd bart
MSNBC has made it its’ goal to interview every Bernie or Bust dead ender to make it appear like there are more of them than there really are. As stated by others above, the third one they interviewed after Bernie’s speech was totally clueless. From not knowing the night of the roll call vote, to wondering why the whole night wasn’t about Bernie, to complaining that Bernie had to speak last and not realizing that being the night’s closer is an honor. A wall would’ve been more intelligent. Rachel Maddow was very close to openly mocking her on air afterwards.
David ?▶️Hillary/Harley Quinn 2016▶️? Koch
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Exclusive, never-before-seen video of Rafael Cruz at Dallas (clip)
Baud
@kd bart:
And demanded by Bernie.
Bruce K
One of the things that bites about being stuck in Eastern European Time is that the newsworthy stuff at the conventions all goes down at crazy o’clock local, after it’s too late but before the news feeds have managed to sort it all out.
I’m gonna guess last night was a better night than the day preceding it. Hopefully it continues, because there’s only so much of Charlie dancing the Foxtrot that I can take at one go.
(And how’s the mainstream media dealing with the DNC leak story? Is the focus on the emails, or the Russian chicanery?)
Baud
@David ?▶️Hillary/Harley Quinn 2016▶️? Koch:
Matthew Yglesias headline
Quinerly
@kd bart:
Yep, the Bernie tattoo chick! We have now discussed her through 3 threads. Did anyone catch what state she was from?
Baud
@Bruce K: It looks like it’s slowly moving to the Russian Connection.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Quinerly: I’m sure that in a year or two she’ll have a GoFundMe for tattoo removal just like the Romney tat guy.
Hal
Did Sudan Sarandon ever cheer the fuck up?
I meant Susan, but I’m leaving it the way it is.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: The talking yam doesn’t seem to be convinced. He said he’s never met Putin, but didn’t he say at one point that he met him on 60 Minutes?
He also said how it would be so nice to have good relations with the Russians, Joe of the Morning didn’t think that was a great idea(I don’t think ol’ Joe is voting for the yam).
kd bart
@Quinerly: I’m hoping she got a refund on any Poli Sci course she might’ve taken because it obviously didn’t sink in.
Quinerly
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
We have surely talked tattoo chick into the ground. But did anyone actually see it well enough to tell exactly what it was? I assumed Bernie’s face/head?
Ultraviolet Thunder
@Baud:
If the FBI has anything to say about Russian involvement when they investigate that will be news because FBI sounds sexy. But I doubt they’ll make any public announcement. It would be unlike the Feds to come out and say “Yeah, the Kremlin is trying to skew your election, America.”
Baud
@Quinerly: Now I’m sorry I watched C-SPAN. I missed tattoo chick.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@kd bart: Does Trump University have Poli Sci courses?
PurpleGirl
@Schlemazel Khan: At some point around 3:30 I was channel surfing to find something to watch. I found myself watching part of Michelle Obama’s speech and she blew me away, A bit later I had Rep. Luis Gutierrez (IL) on. He was boiling, telling his family story being Puerto Rican and that his parents came to the States in the 1950s and they were discriminated against and he went on talking about how each succeeding generation of immigrants finding themselves being discriminated against by racists and bigots. And damn, he named Trump.
If you get the chance to hear him, if you have to hear him. I think he’s an up-and-coming leader.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: I watched on C-Span as well and also missed her.
Quinerly
@Hal:
I guess you saw that link posted many threads ago…Susan was comparing poor Bernie to an unarmed Black man. She was interviewed earlier in the day.
Baud
@?BillinGlendaleCA: It was worth it. MSNBC is so bad.
Quinerly
@PurpleGirl:
I thought his speech was actually one of the best.
Baud
It was early in the evening, but the little immigrant girl was really touching.
Bobby Thomson
@MattF: another example of why I can’t take Drum seriously – he says Hewitt and Goldberg aren’t from the fever swamps. He still believes in rational Republicans. Keep chasing that unicorn.
rikyrah
@raven:
I did. When you go in search of FLOTUS ‘ speech, be sure to find a video that includes her introduction video -it rocked. FLOTUS had me tearing up.
kd bart
@Baud: Tweety has the consistent annoying habit of not letting his guest answer a question in full before plowing onto the next thing he wants to say.
rikyrah
I’m pretty sure that I actually will cry when Chelsea introduces Hillary on Thursday. The true historic nature of her candidacy is really setting in.
Baud
@kd bart: Tweety is consistently annoying.
OzarkHillbilly
@MattF: “They’re both mainstream conservatives.” and that’s the problem.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Surfing though the channels, I ran across MSNBC and Chuck Todd was talking. If I had to watch that for 5 hours, I’d start drinking again.
rikyrah
@Ultraviolet Thunder:
You are so right.
HOME
TheMightyTrowel
@rikyrah: the intro vid was awesome.
Mr. Trowel just got back from 2 months abroad and the first thing i did once we got back from the airport was to sit him down and make him watch MO’s speech. It needed immediate sharing.
Cat48
@Ultraviolet Thunder:
The FBI is investigating Hillary’s aides at the State Dept again, plus the DNC. Evidently State Dept had a serious cyberattack & the aides accounts were not checked. Of course, they have checked her server already.
bemused
@Ultraviolet Thunder:
Libertarians are the biggest dopes ever. If they had their dream world of everything privatized, they would be the first people having gigantic tantrums, crying like babies they have to pay to drive anywhere past their driveway not to mention fire, police, disaster protection, etc, etc, etc……
PurpleGirl
@AnonPhenom: I have aspirin, Advil, Aleve, Advil PM. Which would you prefer?
debbie
@Baud:
PBS wasn’t too bad. It helped that there wasn’t much time between speeches.
Baud
@debbie: I might try that tonight.
Baud
@Cat48: Why are they investigating the aides?
Quinerly
@Baud:
She was great! A hateful right winged site has a piece up about how the DNC broke federal law by having her there and the other immigrant….maybe I’ll read the piece. Probably not. NBC headline is that Trump didn’t get a convention bounce. Going back to my tried and true ways of paying no attention to polls until after Labor Day. Yesterday was just too confusing and all over the place.
Baud
@Quinerly:
Good plan. As soon as the DNC is over, we turn our attention to the Olympics. What a shitshow that will be. :-\
aimai
@Baud: Can’t wait for the Bronze medalists to all refuse to leave the podium until they are given a Silver for good sportsmanship! –I kid, I kid.
Cat48
@Baud:
They’re looking to see if there is any sign of the type of attack like the DNC had & what may have been taken. I think when the cyberattack happened, it wasn’t investigated as thoroughly as they did the DNC hack bc their policy has changed on cyberattacks by a foreign country. (Actually their cyberattack policy changes a lot I Think). It was a David Sanger piece & his writing can be confusing to me.
Baud
@aimai: You’re a troublemaker.
Baud
@Cat48: OK. Your comment made it seem like the aides were supposed suspected of wrongdoing.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: I’ve progressively gotten less and less interested in the Olympics. We used to watch them when I was a kid(72 & 76, I don’t remember watching 68), and then they were in LA in 84 and madame’s hometown(Seoul) the next time in 88. After that, I’ve watched less and less.
Baud
@?BillinGlendaleCA: They seem to have lost some of their shine. I doubt the Rio games will much to bring back the glory.
raven
@?BillinGlendaleCA: I’ve been lucky enough to go to two, LA and Atlanta-Athens, Ga. We hosted soccer here and I went to about 10 games. I saw Carl Lewis won gold medals in LA and Atlanta. I’ll watch.
Cat48
@Baud:
No, they just want to know what Russians may have grabbed during State Dept hack.
The WH has been meeting on how handle it.
HelloRochester
Michelle Obama killed it last night. I honestly don’t understand what y’all are seeing with Cory Booker; I always think it’s a character he plays; Cory Booker as “Cory Booker”. Until Cory quits loving charter schools so much, I really don’t have patience for his endless string of tag lines. He’s on the right side of all of the issues we’ve already won and that’s about it.
Quinerly
@HelloRochester:
Corey gave a great speech. He’s wrong on a lot of issues and I think he has been a little too friendly with Christie in the past. I’m thrilled that Kaine got the nod for VP over him.
condorcet runner up
Current Morning Joe chyron: “Disruptions Roil First Day of Democratic Convention”
OzarkHillbilly
I just….
from an article in the Guardian. Do they not know any Americans older than 7? Are they only talking to old white people who watch only FOX news? I swear to Gawd, this kind of hyperbole in a straight news article makes me want to puke.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Same here. The way NBC does their coverage doesn’t help. Now they’re playing up the fact that they’ve got eleventy-seven channels with coverage. There’s nothing I like better than flipping channels because the coverage is moving all the time (see their coverage of tennis).
I feel for the athletes. When they’re not risking permanent disability from taking barely legal (and sometimes not) substances, and working while injured, and having to wear makeup while they compete, and having their (and their parents’) every facial expression scrutinized, they have to put up with having their lives reduced to some 47 second feel-good video. Because Americans only care about something when it’s reduced to some maudlin video.
Here’s hoping that people aren’t poisoned by the horrible water in the sea, don’t get Zika and other horrible diseases, and are safe from deranged people who want to make some sort of “statement” though violence. :-(
Cheers,
Scott.
(Oh, and Good Morning!! ;-)
Matt McIrvin
@OzarkHillbilly: From a British perspective, violence on American streets has always been at epidemic levels. It just reached the current epidemic level by declining from an even greater epidemic level, but it did reach epidemic levels.
aimai
@HelloRochester: I agree. There’s something too fake about Corey Booker–and its not that I care about fakery. I hate the whole manufactured love affair with “authenticity.” Its just that in Booker’s case seems so transparently obvious that this is not who he is when he’s by himself. I feel so manipulated when I watch him.
Baud
@OzarkHillbilly: They’re trying to make themselves feel better after Brexit.
OzarkHillbilly
@Quinerly:
Christie is the Gov of NJ. When Corey was mayor of Newark he needed to be friendly with the Gov. Now that he is a Senator, he needs to be friendly with the Gov. This is how politics work, you are friendly with people you don’t agree with on most things so that you can work together on the things you do agree on.
sherparick
One thing I notice about the Bernie Bros and Sisters. They are almost as white as Republicans and wear white privilege just as much. I read the Guardian now for my American political news, as well as the WaPo (I can’t stand the Times – if Trump becomes President it and the Cable News networks will be primarily to blame with their adoption of a combination Reality Show, Drama Critic, and horse race coverage.) https://www.theguardian.com/us?INTCMP=CE_US
Again, I expect that the Bernie delegates have their heads so far up their asses that they don’t realize how much they have been making utter asses of themselves all around the world. https://www.theguardian.com/us?INTCMP=CE_US Really strange they are going to vote for Trump (and vote for anyone other than Hilary is vote for Trump) who refers to their preferred candidate as “Crazy Bernie.”
Speaking of broken promises, Bernie went into this campaign promising that he would not go negative. He then ran a profoundly negative campaign from South Carolina forward which perfectly syncs up with with Trump’s “Crooked Hillary” and “Lock her Up” meme. I read a lot of blog streams at different web sites and I conclude that a lot of people are suffering from Pauline Kael syndrome (How did Nixon win, none of the people I know voted for him!) so they are writing that Trump can’t win because he is such an overt racist, sexist, mean bastard who admires all the worse leaders in the world as his role model for President. Listen, there is a reason Fox News has the highest ratings. As the now recognized biggest, bad ass leader of the White Tribe and that tribe’s party, the Republicans, Trump has 45% of the electorate sewed up and as the Bernie Bros and Sisters show, the Trump’s meme of “Crooked Hillary” is one that MSM has woven has permanent trope of the body politic. So it will hard for Hillary to get to 45% herself or get any of that 10% who don’t like either to vote for her as the lesser of two evils.
There is no law that Republic of the U.S. and its democracy will last forever and if you assume things will work out because no one in your bubble is voting for Trump, you may wake up on November 9 looking at the end of our democracy come 20 January 2017.
Mike in DC
I love that people who have been calling the nominee and her supporters corrupt, dishonest and untrustworthy for 12 months are the ones whose hurt feelings must be assuaged.
MattF
@OzarkHillbilly: An editor should have underlined that with a ‘factually incorrect’ comment. Not a good sign.
Betty Cracker
FLOTUS was wonderful, wasn’t she? I’ve been thinking about the speech and why it was so incredibly moving, and for me, at least, it was that she so perfectly communicated the link between political progress and a parent’s hopes and dreams for her children. It’s not an uncommon theme, certainly — damn near every politician invokes “the children” at some point. But FLOTUS made us feel it in our hearts. I don’t know how anybody — including her incredibly talented speechifying husband — tops FLOTUS’s speech this week.
OzarkHillbilly
@Matt McIrvin: Hence my question asking do they not know an American beyond primary school level. Seriously, that is one of the stupidest things I have read in a long time. I can not imagine a knowledgeable, well traveled Brit NOT knowing that things are better now than they were just a decade ago, and FAR FAR better than they were 2 decades ago. (which was better than 3 decades ago) It’s like they listened to Trump’s convention speech and thought it was the voice of Gawd.
sublime33
To counter the “Lyin’ Hillary, can we just start calling him Trumpsky?
Baud
@sublime33: Comrade Trumpsky.
Kay
@condorcet runner up:
My mother in law watched it and she thought it went fine. She either didn’t notice the discord or didn’t think it was important enough to mention. She’s 88 so she’s seen one or two of these. She’s in Indiana and she also tells me “everyone” in Indiana hates Pence “even Republicans” :)
OzarkHillbilly
@Betty Cracker:
If you thought that was good, just wait until Ivanka gives that speech nest week.
gogol's wife
I’m running late, but I just have to say this: I think the Bernie people’s bad behavior is reflecting well on the Dems. You saw what happened when Ted Cruz dared to step out of line — thugs in the crowd threatened his wife physically. But Democrats, who the cameras show are overwhelmingly for Hillary, just tolerated the Bernie brats like annoying insects. That shows who we are. I also think it reflects well on Hillary that these rude people are not with her. But it REALLY reflects well on Democrats that we tolerate difference even at our big ceremonial event. And there was no one at the RNC with the wit and presence of mind of Al Franken and Sarah Silverman, let alone the heartfelt eloquence of Booker, Warren, and M. Obama.
gogol's wife
@Baud:
LOVE IT!
Baud
@Kay: I agree with your MIL. Could have been much worse.
Amazing how these universally hated Republicans keep getting elected.
Quinerly
@Mike in DC:
I’m with you. But we gotta do what we gotta do. It kills me
Baud
@Quinerly: If you don’t want to deal with assholes, don’t go into politics.
Matt McIrvin
@OzarkHillbilly: But there were several well-publicized incidents, so AIIIEEEE!!!!!
FlipYrWhig
I “enjoyed” the MSNBC interviews of Sanders supporters after the speech essentially saying that when Bernie Sanders didn’t get the nomination it was the worst thing that had ever happened in their one year of paying attention to politics.
Patricia Kayden
@FlipYrWhig: There are polls showing that 90% of Senator Sanders supporters will vote for Secretary Clinton. The media loves to play up that 10% for clicks.
Looking forward to President Clinton’s speech tonight. Another late night up with the DNC.
D58826
@FlipYrWhig: I was struck by the young woman with the tatto. The last time I saw such rapt adoration on a person’s face was when my 12 year old sister watched the Beatles on Ed Sullivan.
MattF
Current estimate of RNC bump is zero. And I’m not surprised.
Betty Cracker
@FlipYrWhig: I hope MSNBC just happened to stumble across the most ignorant people in the delegation to interview. Scary to think that those ill-informed nitwits might actually be representative.
D58826
@Patricia Kayden:
True but if that 10% goes green in a close battleground state that could be just enough to tip it for ‘old llittle hands’. Winning in PA with 41% of the vote still gives him the EC votes.
Shalimar
@Schlemazel Khan: Nate Silver will have it over 90% for Hillary by mid-September, both because the polls will change dramatically in the next month and because he doesn’t want to look like a fool. The worst thing possible for his vanity would be missing the results badly while Sam Wang gets it correct.
FlipYrWhig
@D58826: I don’t want to fall into shaming young people for their passions, OK, but I find it completely inconceivable that Bernie Sanders can inspire this sort of literally tear-jerking devotion. What exactly did he do? It seems less like Beatlemania than tulip mania. At least the Beatles were cute and had catchy songs. Bernie Sanders is shopworn and finger-wagging.
Another thing I find completely inconceivable is that this many people have intensely-held opinions about the Trans-Pacific Partnership, about which my wife, an Ivy League economics major, public employee and former statistical analyst said, “What is the TPP?”
JosieJ (not Josie)
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
I watched the Olympics a helluva lot more before NBC started with all the maudlin videos. It was a lot more interesting (to me) to just watch the competition. Doubt I’ll watch much this year.
Quinerly
@Baud:
Yep, that’s why I didn’t. Thought I wanted to..why I went to law school. Brief stint working on the Hill in 1982 cured that.
OzarkHillbilly
@Matt McIrvin: RUN AWAY! RUN AWAY! RUN AWAY!
I find it especially annoying because I saw a graph somewhere showing St Louis as the murder capitol of the country (highest homicide per 100K)(a skewed # do to history affecting the structure of the STL metro area) and I think back to when I was living on the south side and I well remember the edge I always carried, the awareness that was just a basic necessity of everyday life. When I go up to STL now, the atmosphere is completely different, I relax in a way I never could then.
Chyron HR
@Patricia Kayden:
SHE’S NOT THE PRESIDENT YET REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Huh? The other one? Oh, never mind.
satby
Good morning everyone! I got nothing, I don’t watch conventions live, I wait and watch the important things after.
I do notice that the hardcore rightwingers in my FB feed have started up anti-Hillary stuff after being vewy, vewy quiet during the RNC; and they still aren’t posting anything positive about Drumpf. So all they have is Hill-hate.
Tenar Darell
@Baud: Just remember to mute in between because otherwise you have to listen to David Brooks occasionally ;-)
Baud
@Quinerly: Yeah, every time I’ve come close to being inspired to get into politics, I remember how much I hate dealing with other people’s shit. And I would hate the fundraising.
Baud
@Tenar Darell: Jesus Christ. He’s doing their coverage. I don’t know if I want to take the risk.
OzarkHillbilly
@D58826:
That 10% makes up about .000538% of the electorate. (hyperbole, but not by much)
FlipYrWhig
@Betty Cracker: I think they’re representative of the sorts of people willing to put their lives on hold for Bernie Sanders. And, look, I get that if you say “Yes, I’m satisfied now,” you’re going to look like a knee-jerk chump, especially in front of your fellow die-hards, so I’m not actually trying to pick on the idea of saying it’s going to take more than a speech to change your mind. But the _reasoning_ is such a train wreck. Being up in arms that Bernie Sanders had to speak last? Complaining that you had to hear too much about Hillary Clinton at the convention for nominating Hillary Clinton? Saying that the Clinton side hasn’t made enough concessions on priorities and policy? Contending that you just don’t know enough about Hillary Clinton, who’s been a high-profile public figure YOUR ENTIRE LIFE? Good Lord that’s just stupid.
satby
@JosieJ (not Josie): I quit watching the Olympics then too. First because to fit the stupid videos in they cut competitions out where the USA wasn’t a leading contender, and second, because the videos are so cheesy.
Quinerly
@FlipYrWhig:
I haven’t gotten it from the beginning. It’s the same speech over and over..and not even well given. Some can recite it like Grateful Dead lyrics. Some I have run into don’t even understand what they are saying…and have no understanding of process. It’s like a cult. “Bernie inspired me”
bemused
@D58826:
I watched the interview with her on maddowblog and couldn’t believe she actually did get a tattoo of Bernie’s head above her breast. Cuckoo cultist.
D58826
@FlipYrWhig:
and the Bernie folks didn’t get a chance to speak. Not sure what arena these folks were in. It was pretty much all Bernie folks last night.
FlipYrWhig
@Quinerly: I don’t get why so many young people started to wear gigantic black glasses and grow giant beards, either. It’s just objectively unappealing. Maybe it’s all part of the same phenomenon.
FlipYrWhig
@D58826: NOT ONE SPEAKER SAID SHE WAS A CORPORATIST WAR PIG ITS ALL RIGGED WERE BEING SILENCED
Kay
@FlipYrWhig:
The TPP has become a kind of proxy for “deals made in undemocratic and untransparent ways by elites”. NAFTA has been that way for years. Saying “NAFTA” is kind of a shortcut to a whole set of beliefs.
The biggest beneficiary of TPP is agriculture and the various processed foods industries. No one in the US will even see that effect, because the US dropped (many) trade barriers to ag imports years ago. We let food produced abroad IN, but other countries don’t reciprocate because they protect their local markets and producers. Some of that is legitimate- some countries have higher standards for food safety than the US does, or they prioritize local sourcing for food.
People in other countries will see many more US ag products. That will be the short term ordinary-person effect.
Keith G
@Kay: I have been a reasonably sentient being for 13 of these primary to convention cycles. This one is not an outlier. As of night one, this DNC seems of normal tumult for an open seat contest and whole orders of magnitude calmer than the real dumpster fire that was 1980.
Yep there are lazy, and even disingenuous, headlines this morning. But it does not matter. We learned from two Obama campaigns that slipshod reporting can easily be upended. The good news is that people were and will be paying attention and so much of our message was carried live to people tuning in to see a NASCAR-style crash, but saw our attacks on Trump instead.
It’s gonna be fine.
rikyrah
@HelloRochester:
I’m with you. I hear you.
rikyrah
@aimai:
another on spot comment.
One of my favorite comments about Booker was on an old Black Conservative Blog called Booker Rising.
It was the night of then Senatorial Candidate Barack Obama’s DNC speech in 2004.
” Somewhere, in the projects in Newark, Cory Booker is feverishly taking notes.”
I LOL when I read it, and all these years later, it completely sums up Booker up to me.
Quinerly
@FlipYrWhig:
You nailed it at 154. I’ll add this in my rant. It BURNS me (Yes, I’m taking a real word “back!”) that they all act like Bernie BROUGHT all these issues to MY party. He somehow is the savior. I resent it and that’s why I have come to loathe him. He created this. I’m 55, parents were and I am life long Dems. My mother was a public school teacher in NC and almost lost her job over a hand drawn pro McGovern sign in our yard. My dad used to quip that they were the only 2 people in NC who voted for McGovern (“I’m sure it’s documented somewhere”…he’d smile when he said it). Bernie and his supporters have given no credit for what has come before. He is old enough to know better.
FlipYrWhig
@Kay: OK, but “NAFTA” is easy to reduce to “shipping factory jobs to Mexico.” What is “TPP” reducible to? It strikes me as much more of a wonks’ concern than a working people’s rallying cry, and yet in reality it’s the opposite.
Keith G
@HelloRochester: @rikyrah: I will take a third seat with y’all.
magurakurin
Good morning droogs. I think tonight is going to be even better. The turning of the tide was definitely when Sarah Silverman called the hecklers out. Before that the speakers were largely ignoring them. But you could tell that the speakers were rattled by it. Elizabeth Warren in particular seemed shocked and dismayed by some of the chants aimed at her. Someone needed to say something directly to them. Sarah Silverman was the perfect person and Al Franken’s little drum roll hand tap on the podium after she said it was a wonderful little touch. You could tell he was really glad she said that. It seemed to release the tension and put it all out in the open and exposed the hecklers as the children that they were. I would bet that there will be more push back on the floor when people try it again tonight. Bernie has spoken in no uncertain terms where he stands. Anyone who continues to disrupt is doing so on their own and in no way whatsoever in Bernie’s name or with his blessing.
We are going to win if we stay strong and stay together.
Donate, get out the vote, and vote.
OzarkHillbilly
@Keith G:
This implies you’ve watched every one of them, bringing into question the limits of your sentience. ;-)
Quinerly
@FlipYrWhig:
Are we old?
FlipYrWhig
@Quinerly: My suspicion for a long time has been that a lot of Bernie Sanders supporters think that Hillary Clinton actually barnstorms the country _advocating for_ the things they consider her greatest faults. Like she travels from state to state praising Wall Street and promising to do favors for rich people, and that all of her supporters cheer her for it. And then when they hear her give a speech or do an interview she doesn’t say any of that stuff, but instead of being reassured by that discrepancy they just think she’s bullshitting. And I hold Bernie Sanders responsible for creating that impression.
Keith G
@bemused:
Modified a bit.
Aimai
@FlipYrWhig: less like beatlemania than tulipomania? My god i think i love you!
Kay
@FlipYrWhig:
But that’s the whole problem. Trade isn’t a “wonks” concern, anymore than other huge “long arc” policies like foreign policy are, because trade impacts regular people. We’ve been going around on this for months and I know we disagree but I think you have to give me that US trade policy affects people. It does. It doesn’t affect “place based” employment so much now, services rather than goods, but I wouldn’t assume that segment of the workforce will “stay safe”- the next big trade deal on the horizon is services. That includes education.
I agree with you that the 22 year olds may not know what’s in TPP, but they’re not wrong that trade is under-debated and crafted by elites. That’s true. Trade is huge. It probably shouldn’t be crafted by 150 people in a room who aren’t impacted by it. Foreign policy is “wonky” and tangled and difficult too, and no one ever says regular people aren’t qualified to comment on it. They may not be able to find Iraq on a map but they knew they didn’t want the US to invade it.
FlipYrWhig
@Quinerly: But of course! Old, jaded, and callused by political disappointment. *clinks glass*
Judging by those post-speech Sanders supporter interviews, It really did sound like they thought Sanders would have no problem doing everything he said. There was a moment when one of them said that after a year of following Bernie Sanders it was sad to think of how they were getting “only promises” from Hillary Clinton. I think it’s a version of what Scott Lemieux (I think it was him) has popularized as the Green Lantern Theory of Politics, where wishing something makes it so, and Bernie Sanders is the only one who wishes things to be so, and no one else even tries.
D58826
@Kay: seems to have become the liberal magic chant like the RW radical Islam. Just say ‘stop tpp’ three times, click your rubie slippers and all is well (don’t really want to go back to Kansas these days).
And what every one keeps forgetting is what ever is good or bad about TPP/NAFTA the rust belt was very rusty in 1980. NAFTA passed in what 1996?
Aimai
@rikyrah: i remember that comment!
gogol's wife
@magurakurin:
But Warren came after Silverman.
Keith G
@OzarkHillbilly: I make no guarantees on that front. We lived in the rural NW Ohio and could only get two TV stations clearly with our antenna. So ya watch what is on and that meant either Cronkite or Huntley and Brinkly during convention time.
It must have left a mark, since I went to OSU and studied political science and economics (but not typing, alas). So I have watched a lot and had some on video tape too – the mark of a truly damaged mind.
Mike in DC
@D58826:
Indeed. Manufacturing peaked in the 50s, and the sharp decline actually began in the 60s and 70s, with the rise of rivals in Japan and West Germany. Automation further accelerated the decline. Sending the factories overseas preceded NAFTA by a decade or so.
Grumpy Code Monkey
After MSNBC did their goddamndest to find every Bernie dead-ender they could, several “journalists” sat down with Al Franken for a chat, and one of them said something to Franken about how facts don’t seem to matter in this election.
Franken said something to the effect of “facts do matter, and it’s your job to make them matter.” You could tell he wanted to say it a bit more forcefully, but was trying not to scare the poor things. As it was, I don’t think they appreciated it.
FlipYrWhig
@Kay: Well, sure, trade actually affects people. I’m not denying that. But IMHO there’s getting to be this confusion, useful in many ways to the intellectual and activist left, between trade per se and “trade” as a shorthand for all the ill effects of globalization or even capitalism.
FlipYrWhig
@Aimai: :D
Kay
@FlipYrWhig:
The TPP may actually increase employment in unionized industries because food processing and production is unionized. Not the raw materials part- not producing meat or grain- but producing FOOD-soup and candy and commercial bread products are all made where I live and they’re all “good jobs”- they’re all union. That’s what they’ll be exporting when TPP opens foreign markets, along with unprocessed grain and meat. It makes sense to process food products in the US because the raw materials are produced here.
One of the fastest growing employers in the Detroit area right now is a company that makes salsa. They export. That’s a production process. The raw material is just tomatoes rather than steel.
amk
@Betty Cracker: nah, what is really scary is the msm exclusively giving these nitwits platform to air their stupidity and the result is deadbeat donnie.
Ruviana
@PurpleGirl: Prolly a dead thread but I thought he was great too.
Betty Cracker
@Kay: Excellent points. I’d love to see an honest public debate about trade. I think we’ve actually had some pretty good discussions here on this blog, but the public debate is all vacuous slogans.
The Other Chuck
@FlipYrWhig: And they wear those baggy pants and listen to that hippety hop music too!
FlipYrWhig
@gogol’s wife: Yeah, I don’t think the Silverman remark did much calming or released much tension. It sounded like the jeering and chanting flared up the whole rest of the night, even during Booker, Warren (I thought I heard a chant like “We trusted you”), and Michelle Obama.
Aimai
@FlipYrWhig: well, this gets back to the cultural concept of authenticity and sincerity–some people so highly value the presentation of those qualities in a politician that they come to despise everything–including political skill, experience, calm, caution, and ability to work with enemies because all those things are seen as unable to coexist with sincerity/authenticity.
These are also people who dont want to be told they have to wait. If you read their self disclosures online they are actually either so young they dont know shat waiting is or they experience themselves as so old/weak/angry/used/out of time that they have no patience with being told that nirvana is not around the corner. Bernie’s language, like trumps, gripped their imagination. He promised them thst they would overwhelm all opposition by thrir numbers and enthusiasm.. Anyone sho argued differently had to not want good things as much as Bernie. They had to be dissembling.
D58826
@Kay:
I agree. My preoblem is two-fold:
1. once you start reading up on it the eyes glaxze opver very quickly and
2. almost all of the articles are written by the usual suspects with their own economic ax to grind.
Now point 2 is legitimate but it makes it hard to evaluate the entire package. If interest A is opposed to the deal because their group will lose 500 jobs but interest B is in favor because their group will gain 5000. How do you decide by just reading the articles. Maybe the 500 jobs are high paying and the 5000 are minimum wage but the opinion pieces never get into that level of detail. Maybe w/o TPP 5000 high paying jobs will be lost and 0 minimum wage jobs created.
Makes my head hurt and how do you explain that in a stump speech w/o looking like your pleading for a special interest. Hillary gets beaten up for her ties to Wall Street, with some justification, but she was the Senator from New York. They are her constituents and most of the folks on wall street are just plain folks, not tycoons. .
WHATEVER we do. however, the winners in our economy should be helping the losers transition to a new set of skills or if based on age, etc, a safety net.
kd bart
@Kay: No one ever complains about US Trade policy when they’re buying a 40″ HDTV for under $300 at Target or Best Buy.
MomSense
@Kay:
I do think we lump all problems with manufacturing under trade agreements. One of the real problems we have as liberals/progressives is that our values are sometimes in conflict. In Maine, our best manufacturing jobs are building destroyers. We are building the ridiculously overpriced DDG destroyers in Bath. When we compartmentalize these issues, we say we want to stop paying for these outrageously expensive projects like DDG or the joint strike fighters. We rightly are upset about the cost, the influence of the military industrial complex–and yet we also want to support these union, manufacturing jobs.
Issues of manufacturing are more complicated than just trade agreements and we often prefer to be anti NAFTA or anti TPP without getting into the nitty gritty of the issues.
FlipYrWhig
@The Other Chuck: Actually they wear excruciatingly tight pants, which, as a Gluteal American, I also find a baleful trend.
magurakurin
@gogol’s wife: hmmm, yeah, okay, you’re right… forget what I said. I was messaging with some friends back home about it and reading this blog all a the same time. Misremembering it.
I still think tonight will be better.
polyorchnid octopunch
@MattF: That’s not OCD. That’s projection.
Davis X. Machina
@Mike in DC: Manufacturing employment may have peaked then, or the relative size of the manufacturing sector… But not output… That’s higher than ever.
Quinerly
@FlipYrWhig:
I’m on my phone so my comments are always weird in my replies. With that said, someone above said something about they “have put their lives on hold for Bernie.” Back to a reference I made earlier…it clicks. I love the Grateful Dead. Don’t get me wrong. But I do have two friends who followed the Dead for 40 years. Both never had regular jobs because of “Jerry!” There’s a similar mindset. Both my old hippie friends got on board with BS but are so broke that they couldn’t actually see him in person. One has come around to Hillary (lesser of two evils). The other one thinks Trump is a plant of the Clintons so that anyway, she wins. He thinks the joke is on us now because Clinton won’t be able to control him now. It’s a very elaborate conspiracy in his mind. He’s voting Stein (his conscience and all!) but hopes Trump wins so it will all come out about how the Clintons rigged both parties. Yes, I know…it would be really sad but he called me a c*nt on FB a few weeks back. Only see him now on mutual friends’ threads. Ranting like a freak. What would Jerry say??
Kay
@Mike in DC:
That’s not exactly what happened though. It is true that production in Japan and Germany rose. It is also true that the US pursued a free trade agenda and Japan and Germany did not reciprocate. That gave them an advantage. The US opened their markets to Japanese and German products and Japan and Germany protected their own producers. There was a lag- a period where the US was “ahead” promoting what free trade and other countries didn’t reciprocate. In that lag period US industries got hurt. It WASN’T a level playing field. That’s what people who understand trade object to- the idea that it was the natural result of “markets” and “competition” when actually this was a crafted policy by the US. They believe the US did that- opened US markets w/out demanding other countries reciprocate- to bring down US wages. It’s not just a plausible theory to me, it seems likely. That’s an opinion, of course.
amk
@kd bart: Bingo. There are two sides to the issue. Rest of the world is moving on, us of a or not.
The Other Chuck
@FlipYrWhig: I bet they don’t even wear an onion on their belt either!
I’ve gone vegetarian again myself, partly so I can fit in those skinny jeans again … still not planning on actually wearing them tho ;)
FlipYrWhig
@Aimai:
Man, this rings SO true. I think that’s totally right, and helps to unify the passion of the 40-somethings (“I’ve been waiting SO LONG for someone to talk like this about the things I care about. Everyone else is so cautious and slow!”) with that of the 20-somethings (“Why doesn’t anyone else talk like this about the things I care about? Do they even care at all?”).
Leto
@?BillinGlendaleCA: I’m still working on “Team of Rivals”. I’m up to 1862; nobody tell me how it ends.
FlipYrWhig
@The Other Chuck: I remember when you could get FIVE bees for a quarter!
D58826
@Mike in DC: The golden age of the 50’s was in part the result of the rest of our trading partners were rebuilding from WWII. It was a two-fer – no competition and selling to Japan and Europe all of the things they needed to rebuild.
Kay
@kd bart:
Yeah, and I heard the President say that and I wish he’d stop. Because the 40″ tv isn’t wages and it isn’t going to help them pay their gas bill. Cheap luxury items are nice, but they are LUXURY items. Extras. I don’t know if they’d rather have a pension than a 40″ tv but I do know they’d be better off with a pension than a 40″ tv.
I just think it’s a bad political argument.
Quinerly
BS delegate being interviewed on NPR. She’s voting for Stein. She’s from Idaho. Sure that Idaho will go for Trump. If she lived somewhere else she’s not sure what she would do. Trump scares her.
D58826
@MomSense: And DOD spreads the contract all over the country so that every Congresscritter hass a vested interest in keeping the project going. Even if they are only making nuts and bolts in his/her district. I believe St.Bernie was a supporter of a couple of defense projects (the F35?) because of the jobs in Vermont. so much for purity pony.
hovercraft
@OzarkHillbilly:
This morning the entire Morning Ho crew was fawning over the speech, Barnicle says that it was top 3 in his lifetime, Joe saints preserve us put it on par with the great convention speeches of St. Ronald Maximus Reagan. Then Joe said it was so good msnbc wil be playing clips of it 4 ears from now at the RNC. They all mocked the RNC and it’s lack of personal heartfelt testimonials for Trump, lack of heavy hitters and lack of a theme. It was somewhat jarring not listening to a litany of the democrats shortcomings. They did talk about DWS and the boorish behavior of the Bernie deadenders, but they tempered that with the Sarah Silverman ridiculous line. All in all not an unpleasant jaunt into the land of the talking heads.
OzarkHillbilly
@Keith G: Couldn’t go fishing, huh?
Quinerly
@FlipYrWhig:
I’m so old that I remember penny draft night! Oops, you said “bees.” Never mind
Kay
@MomSense:
Honestly, from where I’m sitting, it’s not “fair traders” who haven’t moved with the times, it’s people who object to fair traders. Maybe if we used the word “production” rather than “manufacturing” we could all stop insisting these people want to go back to the 1950’s, because they don’t want to go back to the 1950’s. They want rules of the road that treat US producers fairly. Producing salsa in huge batches is a production process. They don’t have to bend metal to make something. It’s just A raw material PLUS some kind of added value. That’s what they’re negotiating now, because that’s where they work. Take raw material, add value, make something. Doesn’t have to be a car or a tank. It can be a hamburger bun.
OzarkHillbilly
@kd bart: Badda bing badda BOOM!
hovercraft
@Betty Cracker:
They went looking for them, fortunately a large percentage of the craziest were from California. It was one of the points brought up in the post speeches coffee klatches, CA has the biggest group of crazy delegates, and their whip tried to get a chant going during Michelle’s speech but was shushed by the crowd. As someone above mentioned according to Pew >90 % are now with her.
satby
@Kay: is it? I think it’s a reminder that trade goes both ways and the average American does get something he wants out of it.
You can make a great case for why Americans should want other things, but most of them don’t want to pay what it would cost for a 40 inch TV that was made with union labor in this country. Just like they don’t want to pay more taxes so someone else can get health care. Until we break the IGMFY mindset, we’ve got a problem.
tobie
@Kay:
I don’t think this is true. The anti-TPP sentiment comes from the fact that old-style manufacturing jobs have fallen by the wayside. That they’ve done so because of some of the legislation you refer to — among other reasons — doesn’t make for a very catchy slogan. It’s so much easier to blame NAFTA for the slump in blue-collar jobs. One day, maybe, we’ll have a discussion of the meaning of automation, globalization, and container shipping for manufacturing in advanced economies but I’m not holding my breath. The discussion of trade in the media is woefully inadequate and has led to the renewed protectionist fervor on both the right and left. Just as depressing as the loss of certain manufacturing jobs is the loss of any thoughtful discourse about it.
FWIW, the Congressional Research Service examined claims about jobs lost/gained because of NAFTA in 2014 and essentially said it’s a wash, though the volume of trade tilts things toward the jobs gained side. See
Jack the Second
@Mike in DC: Here’s the crazy thing: while manufacturing jobs have been declining steadily as a percentage of total jobs, they actually held steady at around 17.5 million from 1970-2000, before declining precipitously to 12.5 million during one particular presidency.
chart
Quinerly
@hovercraft:
Someone last night posted about the ex BS supporter who is now with a group “Dudebros for Trump.” We need more info but it sounded like he was one who was whipping the CA boos. What I want to know is how he got in if this is true.
Kay
@D58826:
I actually think the US private sector should have a much bigger role in this. They haven’t treated US workers well and that’s where a lot of the blame should rest. They need to do better. I’m ashamed that the best over-all employer where I live is a German company and it’s a non-union facility. They’re treating people decently voluntarily. The product they produce was invented in this county. The company took off and it was sold to a German concern and they’re GREAT neighbors. That should be what US businesses aspire to. This is partly cultural. It needs to start at business schools. The idea that it’s savvy and ultra-smart to screw your workforce has to change.
FlipYrWhig
@Kay:
Do you think that’s what people waving “No TPP” signs want, or would say they want, though?
amk
@Kay: It’s a fast changing global demand & supply competition. If you can’t meet it, you are out of it. Them is the reality.
The thing you should be attacking is the over compensated ceo’s and cfo’s, tax evasion, easy hire & fire ‘laws’ etc.
satby
@Quinerly: they should start yanking credentials if that’s true.
Iowa Old Lady
Trump found where the kids hid his phone:
Aimai
@Kay: its not an argument–its an observation anout people’s voting preferences.
hovercraft
@D58826:
Well she’s not the nominee yet, there’s still a chance that the super delegates will look at yesterday’s CNN poll and see that she can’t win, and make him the nominee. Yesterday should have been all about Bernie to showcase his wonderfulness, this would have given the super delegates a chance to see the error of their ways. Now never mind that back in the real world the supers know Bernie better than they do, and the evening program featured a bunch of Bernie supporters and Bernie, in other words it was Bernie night.
OzarkHillbilly
@Kay: It’s not a political argument Kay, it’s a statement of fact about the short attention spans of the avg American voter.
Major Major Major Major
@FlipYrWhig: Some of them, probably. Out here a lot of the knee-jerk opposition to trade agreements is from the anti-WTO types, though, so I totally get your eyeroll instinct.
MomSense
@Kay:
I honestly think that we just need to focus on wages because there shouldn’t be this separation between service and production. Earning a decent living for an honest day’s work is the key to so much in this country.
Kay
@satby:
It’s politically dumb because it’s “wants” versus “needs”. Do they “want” a cheap 40″ tv? Sure. But they don’t “want” to pay their heating bill or save for retirement- they need to. To me “wants versus needs” is politics 101. Start there. Saying to them “well, you like your 40″ tv, I notice” is not addressing the issue. It’s not even true on a household budget basis. If they couldn’t get a tv for 300 dollars and it was 5000 dollars they simply wouldn’t buy one. They’d still have to buy shelter and food and education and a retirement. It’s not a good trade. One is a want and the others are needs.
Quinerly
My news feed: Donald Trump Jr thinking about running for mayor of NYC, DNC broke the law by having two undocumented immigrants on stage, Media ignored Warren, No flag pins spotted at the convention. Fun times.
Miss Bianca
@sublime33: Trumpsky! Tovarich Trumpsky!
D58826
@Kay:
Which of course raises the question as to why the US negotiators agreed to those terms. Was this in the 50’s when Japan/Germany were still rebuilding?
But at the end of the day they still had to negotiate a trade agreement of some kind. And whither you call it TPP or something else, the issues being addressed in that agreement will still be there even if TPP is voted down. The threat of Chinese economic penetration in the western Pacific is not going to disappear because the progressives chant ‘no tpp’
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I managed to sit through one of MSNBC’s hand-holding interviews with a Disappointed Bernie supporter, the young woman from LA who said HRC needed to ‘move over to us’, or something like that, in the middle of a bunch of talk about how it’s ‘like a relationship’. I was too tired by then to scream at the TV, but how the hell does it not occur to a political reporter to ask, “On which issues would you like to see her move toward your position?” (and when she does, will you just fold your arms, sneer and say “she doesn’t mean it”)
I couldn’t watch the tattoo’d Bernista who’s going to commission a reliquary in gold and mother-of-pearl to preserve the Bernie! sign that made her weep.
Nina
My facebook rightwing acquaintance is sharing a story today tut-tutting about how un-flag-ful the DNC was last night. Why, the stage didn’t even have any red, white and blue, not to mention no fake gilt with the candidate’s name. How Un-Amurrrcan!
Really gives me a glimpse into how a brain can lose sight of what America really is and ought to be.
Soylent Green
Except for some recreational products I’ve never done anything that could get me arrested, but damn if I didn’t want to be on the convention floor last night to punch that “we trusted you” fucker in the mouth.
At first I was pissed that Bernie was giving his stump speech and crowing about his revolution, then realized that was the only way for him to bring his people on board. Then it was savvy of him to hand every one of his positions off to Hillary — “Hillary Clinton knows that (insert Bernie proposals).” That puts the onus on her to move her administration to the left and give his followers a stake in it. As usual, however, he failed to stress enough that if his people don’t turn out and vote the Democratic ticket, there’s no way any item on his wish list will ever be made into law.
Sadly there’s no chance to recover all the young minds destroyed by his anti-party, anti-establishment, anti-Hillary bullshit during the campaign.
Kay
@satby:
I feel like when economically secure people start with the “cheap tvs” thing people who aren’t economically secure think “sure, but you have a pension AND the cheap tv”. Needs AND wants. That’s why the President shouldn’t say it. Needs come before wants in households.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Quinerly: OTOH: Tweety chortling that it took Trump to make Democrats say they love America.
Major Major Major Major
@Kay: German corporations are run very, very differently from American corporations–for one thing, binding labor representation in the boardroom IIRC–so this is not surprising. I find it very amusing when they open a plant here and everybody is like “why are you treating your workers so fairly??” and they’re gobsmacked because they consider what they’re giving our workers to be kind of meh, compared to what they give their own back home.
OzarkHillbilly
@Kay:
Good luck with that. I’m pretty sure the person who invented the MBA is spending all of eternity in hell being drawn and quartered.
Jeffro
@Matt McIrvin:
Other than one CNN* poll, there appears to have been no bounce for Trump, Baio or no Baio.
*odd, isn’t it? The “news” organization that gave Trump a couple hundred million in free airtime, hired Lewandowski, and continues to display some riDICulous both-sides stuff on its homepage?
Betty Cracker
@Kay: Yep. And maybe if it were explained in those terms, people would at least understand the stakes. But I’ve never heard a politician be honest about it, not even PBO.
Taylor
@Kay: Why is Kay not a front-pager?
Always fascinating to read your thoughtful comments.
hovercraft
@Grumpy Code Monkey:
Saw that, Mrs Greenspan mumbled fair point.
Kay
@D58826:
Well, from Japan and Germany’s perspective they’re much smaller countries so they perhaps felt this giant country would destroy their high wage jobs unless they protected domestic markets. Can you blame US workers for wondering “hey- where where MY negotiators?” :)
I think it’s because the US adopted a leadership role on free trade, partly because it is so big (the country), and that’s okay! It’s what they did. But they hurt their own workforce and they need to explain what the “long arc” goal was and whether it’s panning out. We’ve had essentially a dogmatic free trade position for 50 years, both Parties. There’s nothing wrong with questioning whether that worked out as intended. It’s time. It went unexamined too long.
FlipYrWhig
@Kay: Does anyone have a pension anymore?
Jeffro
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I saw that one and a second one – I think the first one was the one who still, somehow, just…just can’t bring herself to vote for Clinton and is going to go Green. Good for you, young person! Now since you’re putting your own fragile ego ahead of the party whose convention you’re attending…get. the. heck. out.
My other thought was, “yes…for everything Clinton has done to advance progressive causes over the past 40+ years…if she can’t accommodate this one mewling little crank, then she deserves to lose and America deserves Trump. NOT.”
hovercraft
@FlipYrWhig:
Yes that was their chant, she was trusted until she endorsed the evil hildebeast. Now she’s just another tol of Wall St.
D58826
@Kay: I suspect vulture/shareholder/quarterly results culture is a BIG part of the problem.
Jeffro
@FlipYrWhig: Most don’t…most should.
Miss Bianca
@Quinerly: This lady is dependent on the rest of us to protect her from the consequences of her choices. I bet there’s a large overlap between anti-vaxxers and “Stein voters” – they depend on the herd immunity the rest of us grant them.
Aimai
@OzarkHillbilly: ha ha! Snap!
magurakurin
@FlipYrWhig:
I sure don’t. But I work for myself. I always figured speaking Spanish would be my retirement plan…move to Latin America…but I’ll probably just end up eating top ramen and hotdogs instead. At least in Japan, though, top ramen is pretty tasty. Better than in the States.
Quinerly
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
But no flag pins! I’m surprised we haven’t had our first Tim Kaine scandal. I’m pretty sure that lapel pin he was wearing Saturday for the rollout was a red, white, and blue Hillary pin. No reporting by Tucker Carlson, yet, though.
Soylent Green
By what logic does the Green Party operate? “Let’s potentially hand the election to the enemy. That will persuade people to accept our views.”
Will we ever be free of this Naderite garbage?
Kay
@Major Major Major Major:
They came in and did a presentation at my kids school. Okay, so first off they paid 5 people to spend A WEEK on this- one public school, and he loved it. It was all about collaboration and how each employee contributes.
If they want to sell capitalism, that’s how to do it. That to me is smart. He looked up the German city where their headquarters is, all on his own. If they want busy little worker bees maybe they should try ATTRACTING them by treating them like human beings.
hovercraft
@Quinerly:
I think that’s the guy, in order to be a delegate all he had to do was to go to the state convention and get the convention to elect him as a delegate.
Major Major Major Major
@Miss Bianca: Heh.
Although I’ll say from anecdata that there is a big overlap.
hovercraft
@Iowa Old Lady:
But he’s still afraid to touch Michelle.
EDIT And she had several shivs that she inserted into his hide last night.
Amir Khalid
@Taylor:
Not sure if snark. Kay is a front pager, just not currently active.
Jeffro
@bemused:
Oh absolutely.
The truly great thing, post-tantrum, would be when they realize if they banded together for such services…you know, collected money from everyone in an organized fashion…they’d get a much lower cost of those services, and those services would always be there when they needed them.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Okay, my Bernie-hating-Grinch-heart is starting to thaw a little…
different-church-lady
@Grumpy Code Monkey: You know, I wish that guy had been as good a comedian as he’s been a senator.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Mike in DC: Yeah. Bernie was so shocked that his most enthusiastic supporters actually believed what he was saying and insinuating about DNC Corruption™ and Wall Street Millionaires and Billionaires Buying Our Campaign Finance System™ and Hillary Stealing the Nomination™. It’s like they didn’t realize that his campaign rhetoric was not to be taken as Gospel.
:-(
Cheers,
Scott.
(Who figures the Bernie or Busters will fade very quickly as a force after Friday.)
schrodinger's cat
When is the President speaking?
Lizzy L
@Quinerly: Aargh. Trump scares her, and she’s voting for Jill Stein because ________? Oh never mind.
Good morning from hazy California.
OzarkHillbilly
@Nina: Republicans have been hiding a lot of shit behind the flag. Maybe you should ask him why?
hovercraft
@Quinerly:
I’m sitting at my cubicle and I heard two white guys talking about the lack of flag pins being a disgrace, and the liberal media won’t mention it.
LAC
@Soylent Green: those poseur asses booing Elijah Cummings put my fucks given about their pity party in the negative range. You are not going to disrespect that man and lecture me about progressive values. Take your soy latte asses home.
bemused
@Keith G:
Better, lol. You couldn’t find a more deserving, supercilious, clueless bunch. I love their fantasy that they are “self-made”, randian super creatures and would be able live comfortably and even better in their libertarian utopia.
D58826
@Soylent Green:
Well he did say that he would endorse some progressives for Congress. The problem STILL remains that there are not enough progressive voters (even as the non-progressives enjoy the benefits of progressive legislation) to win the House and lock in 60 votes in the Senate. Math is a b*tchl
Comrade Scrutinizer
@Chyron HR: Hmmm. After Clinton wins, will they both be addressed as President Clinton? Or will the Big Dog become FHOTUS? This is all too confusing…
catclub
@Schlemazel Khan:
Projection: Rush Limbaugh was saying that he is worried about violence from Democrats if Trump wins.
Gin & Tonic
@FlipYrWhig: I do.
Quinerly
@Miss Bianca:
@Nina:
They are getting their talking points on no red, white, blue from The Daily Caller. If that’s all they think they got, I think we will be OK today.
amk
folks, bs saga was officially over last night with him strongly endorsing ‘her’. time to move on and not to dwell on what the deadenders say or do from now on.
OzarkHillbilly
@FlipYrWhig: I do.
schrodinger's cat
@OzarkHillbilly: I know that people here love the Guardian. But it has always been on the more ideological left side of the spectrum than the pragmatic left. They love bomb throwers and revolutionaries more than stolid people who get things done.
bemused
@Grumpy Code Monkey:
And Andrea Mitchell replied that it was “very challenging” for the media.
different-church-lady
@SFAW: Election season makes us all a little nutty.
Jeffro
@Kay:
It is. We need Dems to speak plainly about getting profits from all these luxuries plowed back into the economy (primarily via education and infrastructure spending).
tobie
@Kay: @FlipYrWhig: Is it really the case that Germany phased in trade agreements slowly? This is an honest question. In some cases this may be true, but the creation of the Eurozone Jan 2002 was a major free trade agreement, and it made it possible for German companies to put plants in lower-paying EU countries immediately without any tax penalties. Osram for instance doesn’t manufacture light bulbs in Germany any longer because it’s too expensive. Cheaper to do it in Poland and Hungary. What I do think is very different in Germany is that the government is allowed to pick winners and losers and can choose to subsidize industries like solar panels because they see it as having a robust future. This is one of many differences to the US. Remember the outrage over the loan guarantees to Solyndra? It just doesn’t seem like it’s possible to have an industrial policy in the US — besides subsidies to the fossil fuel industry — because of the GOP outrage machine. I also think we tend to confuse outsourcing and offshoring in our public discourse in ways that are damaging.
Gin & Tonic
@Soylent Green: I know the reviews here during Sanders’ speech were generally positive, coming from people whose views I generally find myself agreeing with, but I just don’t feel I saw the same speech they all did, and certainly nothing has happened since to disabuse me of the notion that Sanders was and remains an obnoxious asshole who has done far more to hurt the Democratic Party’s prospects than to help them.
D58826
@hovercraft: That’s all right, they freaked out last week because Megan Kelly wore a dress that ah didn’t have a place for a lapel pin :-)
Emma
@schrodinger’s cat: agreed. I skim it every day as a reliable bellweather of what the ideological left is thinking, but not for any pragmatic reason. Same way I skim The New York Times for the ideological center-right (i.e.our so-called 1%). Also, they both have good coverage of non-political straight news.
Kay
@FlipYrWhig:
Yeah, a lot of people here in their 60’s do. They’re financially secure and they’ll be able to leave a paid off piece of property to their grown children and actually PAY for college. This stuff ripples. It’s generational. That’s the part that concerns me. I feel like there’s a financially secure lump of people and they’re moving thru the pipeline and it will get much worse when they’re gone. I see them. The people who are replacing that cohort are much worse off. I see 55 year olds with 25k in a 401k and debt. They aren’t going to be okay and they didn’t really do anything wrong. The world changed. Money isn’t of equal value at equal periods. Having the capacity to give a 25 year old child 10K for a down payment is money that will ripple for that person’s entire life. They need it at 25, not 50, because they need money OVER TIME. It’s the only thing they have, time. It has to grow.
Amir Khalid
@Comrade Scrutinizer:
Per our Adam, yes, they will both have the right to be addressed as President Clinton. I guess that when they attend functions together, as first couples often do, they’ll have to be “President Hillary Clinton and President Bill Clinton” or something like that.
Quinerly
@hovercraft:
I’m so glad that I’m at a point in my life that I work for myself from home. Back in the day, I was more restrained in the corporate world. Now I would probably turn a cubicle over.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
this strains even my cynicism about ‘wingers, and I don’t have time to hunt down the origin, but apparently this is a thing that is being said
You’d think it was bad enough that “Politifact” felt the need to to do a “fact check” (didn’t that used to be called reporting) on Michelle Obama saying the White House was built by slaves.
Keith P.
I would like to applaud DWS for stepping down as soon as she did. It had to have stung, and it led to a few hours of a bad news cycle, but by the time Michelle Obama spoke, the discord was largely forgotten (and, more importantly, pushed off the front pages). This is what it means to fall on your sword, and she will come out better for it down the line.
different-church-lady
@schrodinger’s cat: The fawning love shown The Guardian because they whisper sweet nothings in liberal ears is really just another form of Tote-bagging.
hovercraft
@Quinerly:
Unlike Bloomberg who was a real billionaire and well respected, Trump is a joke here. In the New York primary the only borough he won was Staten Island, and he won one precinct in Manhattan, so bring it on. I’d love to see another Trump get beaten back, Jr is the one said to have been pushing dad to run for years, as a launch pad for his own political career. So yes run and let us snuff that dream out right in it’s infancy.
OzarkHillbilly
@schrodinger’s cat:
Yes, which is why I stay away from the opinion and fluff pieces. This one disappointed me because it was supposed to be a straight news piece.
Quinerly
Depressing Diane Rehm show this hr. Many call ins from people who are Dems…from 2008 and before. Disgusted with the party “corruption” and “rigging.” A lot of Stein voters. Well, my morning just got a bit deflated.
different-church-lady
@bemused: Yes, I too frequently have trouble getting out of bed in the morning…
bemused
@Nina:
The backdrop was rather boring but I thought it was refreshing not to see a gazillion flags. To Republicans, you are not a “real” American without several flags behind you, the more flags, the more “authentic” an American.
Kay
I;m in a better mood because the polls are better. I know people don’t worry about polls, but I worry about polls and not only that I believe I must monitor them if they are bad!
Thank God I can take a day off from fretting! :)
Call me if you need me to stand watch again. Fucking ridiculous, I am.
schrodinger's cat
@Kay: Our trade and economic policy is based on the interests of investors and consumers.
rikyrah
@Kay:
Kay,
just saw the tweet that the Teamsters are backing Portman over Strickland. What say you?
The Thin Black Duke
@different-church-lady: If he was, he wouldn’t be a Senator. It’s a fair trade, I think.
amk
@Keith P.: Yup. A very smart move by dnc and her.
Major Major Major Major
@bemused: Donald Trump is like 500 Americans’ worth of American then! Wow!
Robert Sneddon
@Kay:
I’m surprised to hear that it’s non-union. Most German employers like unions, they’re a one-stop shop for negotiating with, they provide employee feedback and predictability. Is it possible your State laws prevent them from having unions in this plant?
schrodinger's cat
@OzarkHillbilly: They also call anyone they don’t like neoliberal.
Major Major Major Major
@Robert Sneddon: German plants in right to work for less states have recently tried to unionize their workers and fail. I don’t know where Kay lives though.
Gin & Tonic
@Major Major Major Major: Kay’s in Ohio.
aimai
@Kay: a lot of that has to do with the housing crash as well, and changes in the ways people fund their homes. Very few people have pensions anymore and a lot of the people you think of as normal really benefitted as much or more from having had a major asset, like a house as well as free or reduced cost college.
Those years are NEVER coming back. And trade is not really a proxy for them coming back. The vast international market and exploittion of third world labor means that no one is going to voluntarily repatriate manufacturing or production jobs in this country. They just aren’t. We don’t have a workforce that scales up and down at the rates modern manufacturing needs–I’m thinking a about the place they build iphones in China, or fully automated “lights out” manufacturing with robots.
Its not the democrats fault that they can’t force companies to be more German. And having Germans run their factories differently is nice, and all that, but its not something that US companies are going to start imitating unless it makes them a shitload of money. Its unclear what role government can/will play in that.
Major Major Major Major
@Gin & Tonic: if the existing labor pool is non-union then the powers that be fight tooth and nail to keep it that way, even if management actually does want a union
Jim, Foolish Literalist
This article sums up a lot of stuff I’ve been thinking
from the right
and the left
bemused
@Jeffro:
Ha, ha. They would never see that they would be adopting the same system they reject and would say, “See, libertarian solutions really do work.”
Quinerly
@Lizzy L:
I listen to Diane Rehm most mornings for background. Several sane sounding, adult callers…long time Dems…calling in that they hate Trump but are disgusted by the “corruption and rigging of the Dem party.” They are voting for Stein. On chick was from VA. and she and her husband worked for Kaine. I was kinda tuning in and out but she’s not voting for HRC. Doesn’t like Kaine now. He’s a flip flopper the best I can tell.
Iowa Old Lady
John Deere has a big engineering facility in Mannheim, Germany, and Mr IOL sometimes profits from what the German engineers negotiate. The company now pays a US engineer the equivalent of 500 Euros for a patent being granted, for instance.
The Thin Black Duke
@Gin & Tonic: I don’t think you’re wrong. But thankfully, I think Hillary and the Democratic Party will survive the damage Bernie did.
Comrade Scrutinizer
@Leto: The South wins the War of Southron Independence, the institution of slavery continues, the North goes into WW2 on the side of Germany, while the South supports Great Britain, which is unable to overcome the German economic blockade, and Europe sinks into a Nazi dominated hegemony.
Helen
I think the highlight of Silverman’s speech got lost because of her shushing of the Bernie Bros. It was:
Hmmm. Of whom do you think she was speaking?
Kay
@Robert Sneddon:
No. It’s actually a fairly unionized environment here. It’s probably 50%. They were non-union when they were a US company and they’re still non-union but it’s a better employer since the purchase by a German company. They have an interesting retirement plan. It’s a private plan that operates like a pension- almost an annuity. Whoever is running it is doing a good job- a lot of them have a lot of accrued value and they’re ordinary production workers. They have nice retirement savings. The jobs are desirable. They’re know as a “good employer”. We have a Mexican-owned facility here that makes interior components for Honda. The inside of the car- molded parts. The comparison is stark. They’re not a good employer. That place is probably vulnerable to an organizing effort. My son worked at the Mexican-owned company for about a month. He’s skilled and he got out quickly. I;m wondering if Mexico is using US-trained MBA’s :)
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Helen: I liked that line about the sandbox, but…
… if shouting about “Wall St speeches!” wasn’t name calling, it was the equivalent, and Bernie didn’t say “whores” but he didn’t seem real upset about it. We’ll never know where we’d be if Bernie hadn’t run, fostered, and encouraged such a negative campaign, but I think HRC would be in better shape.
ETA: People were chanting “Goldman Sachs” at Elizabeth Warren, that came straight from Bernie. And yes, it was really stupid of Clinton, in a post-occupy, post-Warren political world, to entwine herself with GS
bemused
@Major Major Major Major:
Thom Hartmann has mentioned a few times about a business publication doing an interview with a wealthy, successful German businessman, manufacturer. The interviewer kept asking CEO about paying Germany’s high income taxes. The CEO ignored it at first but finally answered that he doesn’t want to be a rich person living in a poor country.
Elie
@Quinerly:
Half those folks are making up scripts and aren’t who they say they are. I ignore NPR on these kinds of programs. They can’t be trusted. Also.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Pierce on Warren’s speech
I’m not really amazed. Guilt by association, innuendo, and optics. It was half the Sanders campaign.
D58826
@Kay: How did the baking go?
Kay
@aimai:
I disagree. Obama shouldn’t be lauding Amazon distribution plants. They’re lousy employers. They can pay those people better and they can treat them better. We have created a culture that only values certain kinds of work and that is wrong. The work that people do is important to them. ALL of it needs to be valued. Conservatives don’t get it. Dismissing people as “burger flippers” is wrong. Democrats have an opening. Democrats can create a culture where work is valued. ALL work. They haven’t done that. They can’t stop at “those jobs aren’t coming back” because that’s a misunderstanding of these places and it’s that fake kind of “tough love” that DC adores.
THEY KNOW that. They lived it. They’re not demanding to make cars. That’s a misunderstanding of what they’re saying. No one knows better than people who work in trade-sensitive areas that the world has changed. They pack this stuff and ship it. You don’t have to tell people here that it’s an international market. They’re working for a Mexican company that makes Honda door panels. The President can’t appear and tell them it’s international. They’ve been making products for export for 20 years.
Elizabelle
This was a great thread, folks. Enjoyed the discussion on trade policy.
No TV and out of the states, so you are my eyes and ears on what’s going on at the DNConvention.
Mnemosyne
@Kay:
This is a little off the topic of trade, but I have to laugh (mordantly) every time I hear some MBA complain about how workers today just don’t have any loyalty like they did in the good old days. Hey, genius, maybe that’s because companies in the good old days demonstrated loyalty to their employees with things like internal promotions and pensions. Now that most companies have shown for a couple of decades now that they will show absolutely no loyalty to their employees and view them solely as expensive nuisances, why are employees supposed to show loyalty to them?
They made their bed, and now they’re complaining about having to lie in it.
FlipYrWhig
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Pierce is surprised that the Sanders campaign included, nay, catered to, a lot of assholes?
Mnemosyne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I noticed several times that chants began specifically when the speaker (not just Warren) was addressing race. I wish I was more surprised at that.
Barb2
@FlipYrWhig:
Why the extreme cult like devotion of Bernie bots?
Subliminal mind control – unethical group dynamics techniques.
These kids need to be deprogramed. My guess learned from Bernie’s hippie/commune days back in the 70s.
The Bernie bot behavior is not normal.
Normal behavior from a group – responses to Mrs Obama – the video of interviews with children. Healthy hero admiration.
My MA is in Group Dynamics – our professor stressed counseling ethics. When you see blind devotion in Bernie bots – something unethical has been done. These people need cult deprograming. Sort of like Scientology – but different.
Reference – read book titled Snapping. The book has a section subliminal mind control . The book also covers how anyone can be manipulated. Amazon has Snapping in ebook. The latest revised edition is the one I recommend.
I was trained to see the side effects of unethical group dynamics methods. Snapping covers similar territory – cults and mind control.
Bernie is a nasty piece of X…….
bemused
@hovercraft:
Sheesh, flag pins are still a requirement with rightwingers? Idiots.
Making a fetish of wearing your religion on your sleeve or patriotism on your lapel says you are protesting your “values” too much.
Keith G
@OzarkHillbilly: The Maumee River at that time was not good for much more than catfish and carp. Lake Erie was not that far away, but man, o’ man.
That’s why in early July we would rent a cabin on a lake in the U.P. and fill our ice chests with perch, walleye, and pike.
Linnaeus
@Barb2:
You can criticize Bernie Sanders for a lot of things, but I would stop short of mind control.
schrodinger's cat
@FlipYrWhig: Pierce like Guardian has drunk the left wing Koolaid.
bemused
@D58826:
Fox should require the female hosts to get a flag tattoo in cleavage area. Problem solved.
FlipYrWhig
@Barb2: I don’t know if it’s LITERAL mind control, but it certainly feels like something beyond the normal range. I mean, they were showing people literally crying when he stood on stage — and it’s not like Barack or Michelle Obama, who make emotional connections in textbook rhetorical ways. He’s a crap speaker. It just doesn’t add up. But I don’t really have the gene for inspiration anyway.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I’ll leave this down here because in spite of appearances, I don’t want every thread to devolve into The Fight, but this is by turns hilarious and infuriating
FlipYrWhig
@schrodinger’s cat: I think Pierce tends to think that everyone on his side has the same reasons and thought processes he does.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
edited to get around linking problem, kind of sad that Julia Ioffe has been absorbed by the Politico borg
Quinerly
@Barb2:
Thank you for #325! More comments like that and I will get no work done today…and how will I pay for my ISP? For my BJ fix…I do think that it is something deeply troubling going on with this cult of Bernie.
slag
@Kay:
Yes!
Actually, Ds try to do this a lot in their speeches. That whole convention last night highlighted the value of regular people. And the push for a better minimum wage is hugely relevant to shifting the culture to value work.
Unfortunately, it seems to me like the battle is just really uphill.
Leto
@Comrade Scrutinizer: A fellow Turtledove fan. Nice.
bemused
@Barb2:
I have the decades old paperback of Snapping but will have to get the revised edition.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@slag: also, HRC”s “put coal miners out of business” was actually taken out of the context on the need to create new jobs to replace the ones lost to dying industries. And then there’s the whole “infrastructure” thing. The Dems put out a lot for water for that demographic, but the horses don’t want to drink, in no small part because Browns, Bibles and Guns.
D58826
@bemused: Well that is what Roger can do in retirement – become a tatto artist. :-)
And speaking of faux news. Just saw on my Twitter feed that Hannity showed up at a local WaWa and was booed out of the store.
And for those not familiar with WaWa, it started out a a dairy when the milkman came to your door. Their slogan was to the American Indian WaWa meant wild goose but to you it means milk. Obviously the milkman has gone away and now they are a 7-11/ convenience store. Great Hoagies.
Miss Bianca
@OzarkHillbilly: by former MBA students?
FlipYrWhig
@D58826: Wawa fucking rocks. I moved away from Philadelphia 11 years ago for work and fortuitously ended up CLOSER TO THE NEAREST WAWA THAN I WAS IN PHILLY ENVY ME WORLD
bemused
@D58826:
I can’t say this didn’t make me smile. I had not heard of a WaWa. Did this happen in Philadelphia?
Kay
@aimai:
The workplace for white collar women changed partly because of civil rights protections but partly because cultural norms changed. It’s not just a lawsuit when Ailes harasses women, it’s disgusting and old-fashioned behavior. Tech companies are worried about the image they have of not welcoming women and black people in white collar work because they want to perceived as modern and enlightened.
That same kind of cultural pressure can be brought to bear for blue collar workers. Amazon doesn’t get to be in the modern employer club as long as they have ambulances on call outside those warehouses for worker heat exhaustion. They don’t get to stand with the President as a “good employer”. They’re in the FOX News category as to blue collar workers, not on gender issues but on worker treatment. We have two different standards for work we value and work we don’t. That’s not right.
Quinerly
@Elie:
I must beg to differ where Diane Rehm’s show is concerned. She has a guest host this week but her screener is always good. Has been pro Hillary with prior shows call ins. The older woman in her dislike of Kaine (she had worked to elect him) shocked me. Some HRC supporters called in after I had posted so the call count was even. But the first callers rattled me. They weren’t young BernieBots. They were mad Dems who want to send a message to their party.
Linnaeus
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
That’s true to some degree, but I think the Democrats themselves are still recovering from the effects of policies they advocated in the 1990s – those policies didn’t quite work out the way the Democrats anticipated (the Republicans, of course, didn’t help at all) and now the party is shifting away from those choices.
gogol's wife
@Helen:
That was excellent.
Bobby Thomson
@FlipYrWhig: I love success stories.
D58826
@FlipYrWhig: @bemused: Yes in Philly. Exiled from Philly due to job and miss WAWA and cheese steaks and soft pretzels.
Kathleen
@FlipYrWhig: As intelligent as he is, that excerpt tells me Mr. Pierce for some reason chose to be in denial about Sanders. I don’t read his blog on Esquire any more mostly because I got tired of his keening and wailing over all of PBO’s anti progressive sins. And I’m sure he has noticed and appreciated my pouncy flouncy (LOL). (Being silly).
Paul in KY
@?BillinGlendaleCA: 92 one in Barcelona was the best one I’ve ever seen. London & Sydney a close 2nd.
Kathleen
@D58826: WaWa rocks! It is mecca! Daughter takes me there when I visit Tampa.
Paul in KY
@satby: I sure suffer thru those videos. Think probably every other industrialized nation’s coverage of Olympics is better than NBCs.
D58826
@Kathleen: wish they would show up in charlotte
Paul in KY
@Kay: Am retiring at end of month & thank God, I will be getting a nice pension.
Barb2
@Quinerly:
Sorry.
We were treated to – it is about the children, and Hillary who has always cared about the children. Mrs Obama’s speech and video. Just wonderful and inspiring.
Then the Bernie bots showing us that all that matters is HIM.
Reading Snapping helps us arm ourselves against master manipulators. I learned so much from the newest edition, I read the first edition years ago. The mind manipulators are using new tricks.
Then there is the Russian connection – these bastard have their own tricks. Releasing stolen emails to emotionally manipulate the Bern bots. There are lots of BJ commentators who can see the illness.
Paul in KY
@Comrade Scrutinizer: Somehow, I think the South would have gone in on Nazi Germany’s side. Just a hunch….
JAFD
1) Wawa:7/11 :: Neiman-Marcus:Walmart
2) Old Pennsylvania riddle:
Why is Marriage like The Tariff ?
They’re both ways to
Protect the Domestic Enterprise and
Encourage the Infant Industry.
3) I didn’t move to Neuuk until after Cory Booker had gone to DC, but
a) ‘Greatest mayor of Newark in living memory’ is an easy test, but he passes it.
b) He gets the benefit of being in charge at The End Of The Age of Deindustrialization and Suburbanization, and when The City Starts Coming Back
J R in WV
@Paul in KY:
Congratulations.
I retired from software development work and got a reasonable pension. Not like Silicon Valley drones, but I lived in WV all my working life. Of course now that the coal business is shutting down, the state budget isn’t what it should be, and Republicans now control the legislature for the first time since 1932… so here’s hoping they don’t decide to balance the budget on the backs of their retirees!
Enjoy, best of luck!
Paul in KY
@J R in WV: Thank you, J R! Until I get my own PC, will be a bit light on posting. Should have one by middle of August.