The DWS shit-show was getting pretty pathetic:
Democratic National Committee (DNC) Chairwoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz was repeatedly interrupted and booed Monday as she sought to speak to Florida’s convention delegation.
The Florida lawmaker, who will resign after the Democratic National Convention this week after leaked emails showed top members of the DNC working to boost Hillary Clinton‘s presidential primary bid, had to strain her voice to yell over the flurry of protestors who showed up to interrupt her speech.
“We need to make sure we move together in a unified way,” she said over shouts from the crowd.
As she spoke, people stood on chairs holding up signs that said “emails,” “No!” and “Thanks for the ‘help,’ Debbie.”
Others repeatedly shouted: “Shame.”
[…]The Florida congresswoman was defiant, insisting delegates would see more of her.
“You will see me every day between now and Nov. 8 on the campaign trail, and we will lock arms and we will not stand down,” she said.
CLEVELAND, Ohio – Presumptive Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton named U.S. Rep. Marcia L. Fudge as the Permanent Chair of the 2016 Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia this week.[…]Democratic National Committee Chairwoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz will not be speaking or presiding over this week’s convention at all…
JMG
She is an incompetent. I have to assume she was a whiz at raising money, as she has no other political skills I can see.
Betty Cracker
Debbie Wasserman Schultz needs to pick up the clue phone, but the morons who are at the convention booing her, booing Sanders, booing Nancy Fucking Pelosi and booing the nominee need a clue-by-four upside their heads. We’ve got a dangerous demagogue to defeat. Ain’t got time for butt-hurt assholes who don’t understand how this shit works.
aimai
Its really too bad that Bernie’s Boo’ers aren’t willing to give her the same courtesy they demand from the DNC and the entire party towards Bernie. Man, I can remember when people complaining that Bernie was lingering too long and too loudly on the trail, refusing to concede to a woman who had already won the primary, was considered the heigth of cruelty and uncouth. Why! The nerve of DWS continuing to have a political career in the face of the displeasure of the mob. She should have learned from Hillary to cut and run every time someone says something mean about her.
Mike J
Lets boo the person who said no to the stupid plans underlings talked about in email.
schrodinger's cat
Trump wants to deport 11 million people, rip them from their homes and you guys are fixated on DWS. Good job, Bernie deadenders.
lamh35
this is the house that Bernie built but not trying to talk to his followers until the VERY LAST moment
@StevenTDennis
Keith P.
If she wanted this to be about her, she should have run for president. Since she didn’t, and she’s become the (bad) story, she should disappear until December.
Anon
Bernie “supporters” are reportedly booing Bernie himself, as he asks them to support Hillary.
gene108
Don’t worry Bernie supporters, there’ll be another politician along to sell you what you want.
You’ve shown you are eagerly willing to buy a specific product.
Someone will be a long to meet your demand.
Splitting Image
Considering that Wasserman Schultz’s opposition seems to have moved seamlessly from booing her to booing Nancy Pelosi and Bernie Sanders, I have trouble seeing her as the entire problem.
gene108
@Keith P.:
She stepped down as DNC chair in the middle of a Presidential election.
What does it matter, if the resignation isn’t official until Friday?
Oh well, so much for a unifying / unified political convention to show how professionals put on a show.
This’ll be 1968 all over again, so the media will report.
Kryptik
Lets be honest: this shit is probably not the reason DWS should have been out on her ass. I’m not going to miss her much, because there’s already plenty she should’ve been out on her ass for, but this wasn’t it.
lethargytartare
@Splitting Image:
I’m usually in favor of political expedience, but I’m coming around to the notion that HRC should have told them to pound sand and let DWS finish out her term.
Emma
@Mike J: This. I am a Floridian, and no Floridian democrat is really enthused about DWS. But honestly, she’s being beaten up for something she didn’t do. Makes me crazy.
MomSense
@schrodinger’s cat:
Seriously. This election is much too serious for this nonsense.
aimai
@Keith P.: She can’t dissapear because Bernie and his crowd always need an enemy–and she continues to have an actual life and work as a congresswoman. I just don’t get the enormous entitlement that people keep expressing about the virtual destruction of the woman’s reputation and career over emails that she DIDN’T WRITE and actions that she DIDN’T TAKE. Its unbelievable how eager some people are to treat other people as disposable, like counters in a game. Perhaps this is why none of Bernie’s congressional acquaintances were willing to support him in the primary? Because he treats people he has worked with like shit if it advantages him?
Patricia Kayden
@schrodinger’s cat: I’m with you. Our focus needs to be on defeating Trump. There is nothing more important than that right now and for the next three months. DWS has stepped down as DNC chair. Let’s move the hell on, folks.
@Keith P.: DWS will not be involved in the DNC proceedings. That’s as disappeared as she needs to be.
AnonPhenom
Rep. Marcia Fudge named Permanent Chair of 2016 Democratic National Convention
Thanks Obama!
Davis X. Machina
@aimai:
Well, you know, no revolution without martyrs. It’s unfortunate, but that’s how they work…
aimai
@Anon: Right–this is something we’ve all been pointing out for quite a while. Bernie himself could not figure out how to dismount the tiger he was riding. Perhaps, if he’d been a more skillful leader or more honest about the kind of politics he was going to be able to deliver he wouldn’t have whipped his voters into a frenzy of rage and then found himself being eaten alive by it. Maybe if he hadn’t spent months defaming and insulting the entire Democratic Party and Hillary Clinton and everyone else his voters wouldn’t feel so betrayed when he, inevitably, endorsed?
rikyrah
@Betty Cracker:
LOL
Marc
@lethargytartare: see those messages about not making this about your feelings, from John below? This doesn’t just apply to the dead-enders on the Sanders side. It also applies to Clinton supporters who want to stick it to people who annoy them, but who could be on the same team come November.
I really wish that the front-pagers here wouldn’t be egging people on to nurse grievances (and that seems to be much more of a sore-winner thing here for the Clinton folks than the sore-loser thing for Bernie folks that I see elsewhere). Clinton is too damn close to Trump, in case people hadn’t noticed.
aimai
@Davis X. Machina: This whole thing is reminding me of Wag the Dog–I just can’t figure out who is goign to play the role of “Old Shoe” the shambling hero figure.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Emma: It’s like GOP’s version of Hillary, somehow her emails killed those people in Benghazi, we just don’t know how because she won’t tell us.
I thought she was very popular in her district, where being the first Jewish woman elected from FL was a big deal?
Davis X. Machina
Fondly reminiscing about the two Jesse Jackson campaigns now, and how they were paragons of efficiency and party comity by comparison….
AnonPhenom
@aimai:
Way to build those bridges, baby!
ROTFLMFAO…!
aimai
@Marc: Yeah, sure, its not about my feelings because I am going to go full tilt for Clinton/Kaine and will, of course, work with anybody on the ground who wants to do the same thing. But I’m not sure why I have to handle online berniebros with kid gloves or pretend that Bernie and his busters didn’t fuck up politics (which is something hard to do since its pretty fucked anyways). Its on Bernie to unshit this bed, and he’s not going to be able to do it. I’ll stop pointing this out after his big speech tonight, when he officially becomes irrelevant and his howler monkeys head back to their regular jobs.
jl
Hate to by cynical, but most voters have the political sophistication of Donald Trump, though I do trust a plurality are better informed and have better characters.
Sanders is going to have to beat this message over and over again into their heads over the next few months, until most of the die-hards start thinking some sense:
Sanders To Supporters: ‘We’re Not Fringe Players Anymore’
“As all of you will recall, when we began this campaign over a year ago, we were considered to be fringe players by the establishment and the corporate media,” Sanders said while addressing supporters in Philadelphia. “Well, a year has come and gone. We’re not fringe players anymore.”
“We have shown the entire world that our ideas are not some crazy, wild, utopian fantasies,” he continued. “They are ideas supported by working people from one end of this country to the other.”
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/sanders-to-supporters-were-not-fringe-players-anymore
I was skeptical Sanders would put in the effort. Seems like now he will. Question is, does he have the political skill to convince his die-hards? I’m not sure. Let’s see what he does in his speech. I think best approach would be to announce to general viewership that the Democratic Party has opened the doors to grass roots, that is where the action is, and if it goes over well, childish and weak minded die-hard fools throwing tantrums won’t want to be left out. I thought he should address his supporters directly, but now I’m thinking not. Go for the general electorate, if can move popularity of Democrats, get new supporters for his organizations and announce big contribution and volunteers in a a few weeks, get the die-hards to come along do right thing, even if cannot wake them from their immaturity.
Wag
I haven’t been around the past couple of days, but this looks like a good thread to drop this piece of anti-Trump satire to a receptive audience. I don’t know if this has already been seen and/or discussed on BJ, but James Fallows at the Atlantic gives it a strong thumbs up.
aimai
@AnonPhenom: Bridges aren’t built online–they are built i the real world and I, personally, think the Hillary/Kaine campaign is doing plenty of bridge building and hand holding. Don’t see why I need to do it too.
Cacti
Burning DWS at the stake won’t make Bernie the winner, Mistermix.
Mike J
AnonPhenom
I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat.
Percysowner
@aimai: I agree whole heartedly. I’m also angry that the bullies won. I say DWS is showing a lot of class by removing herself from the convention. She raised money for the party. She worked to get the convention organized and now, she’s being run out on a rail for at least one thing she didn’t do wrong.
I was glad when Bernie joined the primaries because I did want a more progressive viewpoint to be presented during them. Now, I wish I’d never heard his name.
Emma
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: She is. I guess I meant no liberal democrat is enthused with her. But I also don’t hate her. I understand some of the compromises she’s had to make. Don’t like ’em, but…
Reggie Mantle
@Marc:
Remember: no one can criticize Hillary or DWS because some Internet troll called them or one of their supporters “cunts.”
Aardvark Cheeselog
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Another Floridian here. “Her district” is not Florida, and (like much of the FL Dem Party) her useless-toolness has been obvious for a long time, to anyone who would like the Democrats to be a leftish party.
pseudonymous in nc
@AnonPhenom: Do you want a hand job as well? Because it appears that only the promise of hand jobs will satisfy the people who adopt your position.
Gian
She was in a tough spot, and I’m not a fan of hers.
As freaking chair of the central committee do you hide during the convention?
a historic convention in that it’s the first time a major party in the USA will nominate a female?
That’s actually a bitter pill to swallow if you think about it.
Cacti
@Aardvark Cheeselog:
Thank goodness for all of the allegedly well-informed “leftish” people who are sending money to her Likudnik challenger who wants to scuttle the Iran nuclear deal.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
can’t wait till he starts testing that out by campaigning for House and Senate candidates. I’m sure white “working people” from one of the country to the other will ditch Trump in droves. Just give the old coot his plane and let’s see what kind of chops he’s got.
He could start by dropping the whiny, “I guess Tim Kaine is good enough if that’s the best we can do” shit. I hadn’t given it much thought, but I wonder who was on the old coot’s Veep list?
Keith G
@Betty Cracker: This won’t matter next week.
AnonPhenom
Thanks Obama!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Aardvark Cheeselog: well, yeah, but a lot of people like Elizabeth Warren who aren’t from Massachusetts, and Bill Nelson and the Senate candidate whose name escapes me suggest that a lot FL Democrats are not that interested in making the Democratic party more progressive
@Emma: she strikes me as a very nineties kind of Dem, DLC-ish, from her policy positions to her non-aggression pact with Ileana Ros-Leiten (sp?)
Jeffro
@schrodinger’s cat:
Nobody’s fixated on DWS anymore, she’s out, let’s move on. Personally I want to know where all of these air quote “Bernistas” were bused in from, who paid for the buses, who paid for their signs, and so on. Looks like another Koch-funded astroturf-type operation to me, because Clinton has the support of 90%+ of former Sanders voters.
AnonPhenom
@pseudonymous in nc:
Wash your hands first and I’ll let you know sweetheart.
piratedan
@Reggie Mantle: wow… considering how much folks around here really don’t like DWS for her lack of savvy in helping to the build the party nationally with noted a lack of candidates in certain local elections, I find this to be one incredibly absurd reach… oops, forgot, you’re just a fucking troll… nvrmnd
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I’ve been reading/posting here a while… was this blog the tea-and-crumpets sewing circle so many of our tone police are nostalgic for back when Cole was a Bush supporter?
Ella in New Mexico
@Wag: @Wag:
Holy crap that was overwhelming! lol
Cacti
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
The self-proclaimed candidate of the working class sure is reluctant to give up the trappings of the high life, paid for by other people.
The primary campaign let him fulfill a lifelong dream of being able to pay lip service to equality, while living like a member of the old Soviet Politburo.
Betty Cracker
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I was at a Hillary Clinton rally on Friday in Tampa (far from DWS’s district), and DWS spoke briefly and got a huge round of applause — no boos that I heard, but it was a Clinton crowd. I’ve never been DWS’s biggest fan — I think she’s too chummy with the S FL wingnut delegation to be effective in her role, and I disagree with some of her policy positions, though it must also be said she’s generally a reliable Democratic vote on many important issues, including guns and choice. But goddamn if the Sandersite witch hunt hasn’t made me a lot more sympathetic to her.
Miss Bianca
@Anon: This. This. THIS. Do you suppose Bernie Sanders is going to pick up the clue phone now? Or can he start yelling at his supporters to pick up the clue phone? Is he just now starting to see what *he’s* enabled?
Bernie Sanders himself is now no longer pure enough for his purest followers! Do you suppose he could now beg them *not* to drink bleach?
Marc
@Jeffro: I’m expecting Sanders and Warren to hit Trump hard tonight and make the liberal case for Clinton.
Yea, I think ignoring the handful of diehards is a better strategy than picking scabs and picking fights.
jl
@Keith G:
” This won’t matter next week. ”
The DWS stuff? I think you’re right. Hardly anyone knows who she is, and no one cares whether she speaks. What did Priebus contribute to the GOP convention?
Sanders, however, needs to figure out a way to shut the idiot wing of his support up for prime time convention speakers. Let’s see how he does. Like I said, at this point, I think he needs to just bypass them and appeal to general viewership and get good reviews and some evidence of enthusiasm. Then a lot of die hards will come around for fear of being left out. True drama addicts will stick with Greens, and some confused or butt-stupid will go libertarian and Trump after causing a fuss. Just need to reduce the numbers.
As I said, that might be a cynical view. But, kind of like nuts-and-bolts GOTV attitude, get those who are more likely than not to vote your way out, even if for a reason dumb-ass enough to appeal to them. “So, hey, you guys are sober now, huh? Tell you what, we take you to vote and we’ll stop by the quick mart so you can buy some beer on the way back. Deal?”
gwangung
@Marc:
As I said before, this isn’t annoying. It’s actively hindering Democratic efforts NOW. Booing Sanders himself and disrupting the conference is not something you can ignore or let slide.
You got to get them up off their ass and do the hard work of electing a candidate.
some guy
I’m another Florida Dem weighing in, one whose antipathy for DWS knows no bounds, but as a Bernie voter who is 1000% in on electing HRC, the time to shiv/boo/primary Little Debbie starts in December of 2016. as of now, DWS is an afterthought and a distraction now.
GOTV and all it entails is the task of every Florida Dem at this point.
jl
@Marc: That’s what Sanders claims he is going to do on his website. Let’s see if he has the political skills to pull it off.
Brachiator
@aimai:
It’s not entitlement. It’s just politics. You have acknowledged elsewhere that politics is a tough fight, and it is not a game for whiners.
I strongly agree with you that this email thing is total BS. But DWS had enemies that wanted to see her gone and have deftly taken advantage of the opportunity they have been given. And if she needs to be kept away from any public appearance at the convention, that’s just how it goes.
On the other hand, these Bernie zealots have shown that they need to be shut down and neutralized. Or even give them a microphone, let them speak and loudly cheer them, as long as they promise to behave.
I suspect though, as I suggested before, the Bernie zealots are looking for every opportunity to show that their dissent is a holy, righteous cause, and only public martyrdom along the way will suffice.
Arm The Homeless
Sanders has made my list of people’s graves to piss on.
Seriously, these nitwits are giant babies screaming for mommy in a burning house, while mommy is outside with a garden hose. Brocialists might be more annoying than Blue Dogs
Jim, Foolish Literalist
The man just cannot not be an asshole.
tobie
The title of this post, the glee over the bullying tactics of Sanders delegates in the Florida delegation–and now California delegation–is just startling. Don’t you have a clue, mr. Mix, just how sexist this is? Shame on you and the bros for celebrating this.
Marc
@gwangung: Yup, no argument on dealing with disruptive people. There’s also an undercurrent here of wanting to give fuck-yous to normal Sanders supporters too, and that was what I was talking about.
mike in dc
Sanders may need to give his diehards a public spanking at this point.
AnonPhenom
The next set of poll numbers coming out of her primary with Tim Canova could be very interesting…
Cacti
@gwangung:
Minor disagreement on this.
Bernie getting booed by what he created is the old coot being hoist by his own petard.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@Reggie Mantle: Hey Reg how long have you been waiting to use the “c” word. I bet that gave you a thrill didn’t it.
jenn
Like most of Balloon-Juice, I wasn’t much of a DWS fan, so I’m certainly not crying she’s gone – though firing her for this is too scape-goating for my taste. I don’t at all support what the staffer proposed in that email, but obviously the “boss” quashed it, so I’m not going to head out to buy some pearls to clutch. The important thing is not that someone came up with a shit idea*, it’s that the shit idea wasn’t implemented.
However, re Hillary giving her the honorary 50-state strategy badge, I’m coming around to the idea that several folks posited in earlier threads – that it was a condition of DWS stepping down. Based on this, she seems to have fought hard against stepping down – and evidently Hillary’s campaign wanted her to step down months ago (which I hadn’t actually known), which makes me doubt the honorary position is proof of Clinton’s love of DWS.
* And while I don’t agree at all with the idea proposed, and agree that the ideal to work toward is one where the DNC is neutral among candidates, I also don’t find it surprising that folks within the DNC would be unhappy with Sanders’ carpetbagging, becoming a last-minute Democrat-of-convenience/ambition, and using the party for all the advantages that it could give him, while simultaneously bashing it. *I* was unhappy with that, and I don’t spend every working hour trying to forward the party and its platform. That said, I’m glad he ran, since I think he made Hillary a better candidate.
schrodinger's cat
@Jeffro: Really? Did you not read this FP post by mistermix?
AnonPhenom
@mike in dc:
We’re talking Democrats here. That only works for Republicans. Or used to, anyways.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
Except, of course, the leaked emails showed no such thing.
@Marc:
socraticsilence
@Emma:
She also isn’t too popular in some South Florida Democratic Circles for supporting incumbent Republican Congresspersons over Democratic Challengers.
Miss Bianca
@Marc:
No, No, I hadn’t noticed. And I guess the fact that Bernie Sanders is telling people to support Clinton/Kaine – and being booed for his pains – means that HE hasn’t noticed, either. Or was he simply No True Progressive? It’s so hard for me to keep my 50 Shades of White Purity straight.
JMG
The Sanders delegates will be on very thin ice tonight. Their own voters will turn on them if they boo anybody. If they boo Clinton Thursday, the “progressive” wing of the Democratic party will suffer a setback it’ll take decades to recover from. I watched a small group of entitled assholes destroy the hopeful left movement of the 1960s. If it happens again, well, I won’t live long enough to see the third time, but I’ll go to my grave assuming a third time will come because too many leftists are just assholes.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@aimai:
This is why I’ve lumped what’s left of the dead-enders in with the Gamergaters and the RabidPups. This is nothing more than the live-action version of the Twitter pile-ons we’ve seen before.
Poopyman
@Jeffro:
Ditto. And are these people credentialed delegates?
lethargytartare
@Marc:
oh bite me – I said I favor the politically expedient route. Should Nancy Pelosi resign and Rosario Dawson quit Daredevil to appease the masses of morons Bernie created?
Every boo heard at this convention is an opportunity for the MSM to sweep the RNC fail parade under the “both sides” rug. I’m comfortable talking about how that makes me feel on a stupid blog. It’s just me asking Bernie and his supporters to eff the hell off, I’m not telling HIllary to have DWS go on the Rachel Maddow show and say it.
Betty Cracker
@gwangung: I don’t think Sanders has the chops to do that. But I sincerely hope he proves me wrong.
pamelabrown53
@aimai:
Thank you, aimai.
DWS, she’s gone. They can nail her scalp on the wall…still it’s not enough.
I watched the “booing” on CSPAN and I was appalled at such juvenile behavior.
P.S. My mother, 83 years old, called me a couple of hours ago and was extremely upset at the treatment of DWS. This is a Floridian who in 2008 loved John Edwards and her favorite pundit was MSNBC’s Schultz.
Now, I thought she should go years ago but this crap reminds me of the Puritans and Burn the Witch frenzy.
BTW: my prediction is that she will win her primary handily. Do you disagree, Betty Crocker?
Betty Cracker
@Marc: Trump is a racist, sexist, xenophobic demagogue, in case you hadn’t noticed.
@pamelabrown53: I also suspect she’ll win handily. It’s not my district, though, so I don’t claim any special insight.
jl
@Poopyman: It it is astroturf, it is on a budget. I saw a news article this week about Philly cops rousting a lot of Sanders die-hards out of their make-shift campaign sites in city parks.
But I imagine for every astroturfed dupe, there are ten goofballs and nincompoops and self-righteous grown-up toddlers and true idiots making up the ultra die-hards who will disrupt.
AnonPhenom
DWS is a leftist now?
Yeah. She should have been fired the minute after the hack happened. They knew what was taken. They knew she was a liability. They made this bed by waiting as long as they did to address the issue. Sleep well.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
“Don’t boo, vote”
“Early to bed, early to rise, work like hell and organize!”
Come on, Bernie, it’s not hard.
JPL
@mike in dc: More likely, he’ll use his speech to dis Hillary, but end with a note that Trump is worse.
Marc
@Miss Bianca: I’m referring to them being close in the polls, not close in politics. Which I find not surprising, since I agree with her on most things and with Trump on essentially none. The point is that we are not served by infighting.
The Thin Black Duke
@JMG: Yeah, I remember seeing this horror movie before. It sucked. Unfortunately, it seems to be on every goddamned channel now, and I can’t turn the TV off.
MomSense
@pamelabrown53:
I’m sure this whole drama is going to make it so much easier to recruit candidates to run for office especially in R+ districts. And given the way it was so easy for convention delegates/attendees to switch from booing DWS to booing Pelosi, I’m not sure women feel encouraged about running for elected office.
pamelabrown53
@Emma:
I disagree. Plenty of Floridians love her, especially in her own district. This crap just pushes people that may be open to more progressive viewpoints. IMHO, the absolute vitriolic beyond the pale, hatred of DWS will be more detrimental to causes we hold dear.
guachi
Fuck Bernie Sanders.
Poopyman
@guachi: No thanks!
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@Cacti:
With his own petard. A petard is not a hoisting mechanism.
Fair Economist
@JMG:
This is possibly as horrifying to me as their helping Trump to be president. The BernieBros are trying to smother the New Socialism movement in its cradle.
Gindy51
@Jeffro: Roger Stone.
Marc
Basically, I think that the Sanders diehards should be ignored, as there is nothing that will move them directly and a lot of them are just people on the political fringes. I also think that there is a significant minority of people who simply despise Clinton, like it or not, and that they would be there no matter who the alternative to her was in the primary and no matter how that person conducted their campaign. You can’t reach these people – hell, they were booing Sanders – and giving them attention only gives them oxygen.
What I do hope that we do is to highlight the positive message of what Clinton is about and what she can accomplish, and to let that work bring people together. Add in contrasts with Trump. Unlike rehashing old fights, this might actually accomplish something.
Keith G
@jl: @jl: I do not think much of it will matter. Things move too fast and the public’s attention span is too short.
By next week the Ted Cruz drama will be a foggy memory and if folks are polled about that in three weeks, most will likely think he plays third base somewhere.
What matters after Thursday will be the interplay between the principals.. Really folks, Trump by himself will generate enough content to blot out the last month of intra squad political drama.
Cacti
@Fair Economist:
It’s almost as if the youngs who are reportedly inspired by 1968 never looked to see what followed: Republican Presidents for 20 of the next 24 years.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Marc: You think the comments on this blog cause Sanders and his supporters to act the way they do?
I think that’s kind of weird.
I do think you can draw a line between an old man who spent six months shouting at people that the only thing standing between them and a superficially understood Nordic-style welfare state was the Witch of Wall St (because speeches!), and these people screaming “Lock her up!” and booing Barbara Lee and Nancy Pelosi.
AnonPhenom
@Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism:
…and sometimes “on his own petard” ???
RK
Just saw a clip of some Sanders people booing his Hillary endorsement today. How is it not going to be a public relations disaster if there’s booing during his convention speech, booing during other speeches.
Kropadope
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Because it’s not just the blog. A big part is the media that braindead assholes on this blog are echoing.
negative 1
@Marc: I think the point is that some discussion, though, is fine. Take this thread, and this topic in general — other than “because Hillary and Bernie dead-enders and blah blah blah blah” I haven’t yet heard of one reason to support DWS. I don’t care why she’s gone, I’m glad. I didn’t like her as DNC chair, I can’t think of a single positive thing that she’s done that would warrant her being supported in her current position. Neither could the Clinton campaign, who also didn’t like her. The second anyone points this out a name-calling feud erupts. That kind of ‘march in line or else’ shit drives people away more than it helps.
@Betty Cracker: If your argument is that Sanders can’t lead because he can’t stop his followers from criticizing the party, doesn’t that exact argument detail why DWS should be out as well? By the logic of ‘the buck stops at the top’ the residual bad feelings around this election should stop at her door, no?
lethargytartare
@Kropadope:
you, chief among them.
Linnaeus
@Cacti:
That’s a little too post hoc, ergo propter hoc – there was a whole lot of other things going on before, during, and after 1968.
Keith P.
@aimai: DWS *is* disposable…a counter in the game. Or, if this makes you happier, she’s more valuable to the DNC gone than she is there. Just like Van Jones. I liked the guy…a lot. And I still do; he’s valuable as a pundit and well-grounded. But he also recognized that he – right or wrong – was a distraction and needed to, as he said, fall on his sword for the greater good. This is politics, not real life; sometimes, you have to accept that reality is not fair.
Kropadope
@RK:
You’re right, it’s way better to fake a show of unity. Everyone say it together “I support Hillary Clinton for President of the United States. If I disagree with her on anything, for any reason whatsoever, I will no discuss it, even with other people who are guaranteed to support Hillary Clinton. Everything elected Democrats due is right and perfectly executed.”
Good, now raise your hands in salute at about a 45 degree angle, open palm, good, now march.
Kropadope
@lethargytartare: Oh, such as?
Tom65
I dunno, maybe being booed? Say what you will about the “Bernie booers”, but DWS would have hung around like an unwanted in-law without them, so to that extent they’ve been useful.
Marc
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I think that the not-Clinton vote would have congealed behind someone, and that we would have seen pretty much the same dynamic if it had been O’Malley as we saw with Sanders. I also think that the deep hostility towards the political establishment was not caused by Sanders and that we’d be seeing pretty much the same anger if he had dropped out in January.
Clinton won and it’s important to rally behind her to elect her in the autumn. If that aim is so important that we need to repeatedly tell people to vote for a candidate that they don’t like, it’s also important enough to try and persuade – as opposed to, say, antagonize – persuadable people.
Botsplainer, Neoliberal Corporatist Shill
@aimai:
I’m shocked, shocked that people working at the DNC, after months of getting trashed by the walking mediocrity that is Bernie Sanders and his retarded Bernfeelers would converse among themselves in ways that trash talked the Bern.
Fuck Bernie Sanders.
AnonPhenom
Hillary needs to announce her cabinet positions. Starting with Bernie for…
Keith G
@RK:
How? See my comment a bit above yours.
It will all be a distant memory by the time exhibition games begins..
edit .. And anyway, sometimes good politicians (not DWS) can turn the boos into great theater for their cause.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Kropadope: who? who in the media made that everloving narcissistic delusional asshole do things like this:
?
Kropadope
@Marc:
At least someone gets it.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Marc: you think Sanders’ demagoguery has nothing to do with his supporters, but comments on this blog do?
ETA: do you really think a lot of “persuadable” voters read this blog, much less the fucking comments?
Kropadope
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: People in public life get booed all the time. Bernie got booed too. Get a thicker skin and quit whining.
different-church-lady
@Cacti:
No, but it might make everyone else losers too, and that’s what really counts in the end.
Cacti
@Linnaeus:
The white left fringe are useless, and usually help bring about more harm than good. They helped give us President Nixon in 1968, President Reagan in 1980, and President Dubya in 2000. Now they’re doing their damnedest to give us President Trump.
Keep heightening those contradictions, assholes.
The Thin Black Duke
@Kropadope: Are you planning on dropping that cross you’re carrying? The splinters must hurt.
The Ancient Randonneur
@AnonPhenom:
Department of Education. His wife is well qualifed to advise him on how colleges fail.
Villago Delenda Est
@schrodinger’s cat: “Nach Hitler, Uns”.
The Berniacs refuse, absolutely refuse, to pick up a 20th Century history book. “Not us, no. We will not and you can’t make us! You’re not the boss of us!”
As for DWS, she’s being a dipshit. Hillary needs to take her aside and say “Debbiekins, you’re not helping you, and you’re not helping me.”
Keith G
@AnonPhenom:
Ambassador to Libya?
different-church-lady
@AnonPhenom:
…head of the Executive Branch!
What do I win?
pseudonymous in nc
@AnonPhenom:
As always needs to be said when this topic comes up: the legality of promising cabinet positions ahead of being elected isn’t clear, which is why it doesn’t happen.
Just take a damn hand job and have a nap.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Kropadope: can’t back up the incredibly stupid thing you said, again? you seem to be getting jittery, is another 2,000 word GBCW “If I can’t have Bernie, let it all burn” post in the offing?
RK
@Kropadope: That’s just idiotic. Conventions are infomercials for the nominee, to sell the product to those undecided, to rally the troops, not a time for dissension. Proper battles are done during the campaigns and up to the platform fights.
? Martin
Jeez, guys. Everyone has their 27%. Stop being so shocked to discover that.
AnonPhenom
Damn! Chumming the waters sure brings out the bottom feeders.
Death Panel Truck
If Dems would only stop the squabbling and get on with defeating the Putin-loving fascist instead.
BR
Hello folks, there is a neo-fascist and his rabble trying to take over the country and undo the last 60 years. Could we please focus a bit?
FlipYrWhig
@AnonPhenom: One-man mission to Pluto?
FlipYrWhig
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: THAT WAS JUST PLAYING A CHARACTER
Emma
@pamelabrown53: I did say, in my second answer, that she was popular in her district. I am not a supporter of hers but also not a hater.
Villago Delenda Est
@? Martin: Fuck. We certainly do. They’re called “Bernie Dead Enders” this cycle.
gogol's wife
@BR:
I’m focused. I think part of that is stepping away from BJ for a while.
It’s weird — during the RNC this blog was virtually troll-free.
different-church-lady
@BR: We are focused. We are laser-focused on THE WICKED WITCH OF THE DNC BEING DEAD!!!! Priorities, donchaknow…
Bobby Thomson
@Marc: bullshit. Sanders fed the beast at every opportunity. He stopped talking about equality and health care and went full bore on process issues having nothing to do with the general election. He told his supporters he could still win months after that was no longer true, to keep the money rolling in. He stalked the tucking pope.
I really hate that man.
Hal
Fuck it. I’m not even going to worry about this shit anymore. How many Bernie or bust folks vote regularly, and vote for Democrats? If these are inconsistent voters than who knows if they wold have even shown up in November for Bernie, let alone any other dem. All in all I went from liking Sanders and being more than willing to vote for him if he won, even though I did vote for Clinton in the primaries, to just being immensely irritated with him. Some of his supporters are beyond frustrating to the point of paralysing stupidity that’s impossible to break through, so fuck ’em.
The Ancient Randonneur
Gavel in for the Dem Convention is about 30 minutes away. I believe this link goes live pretty soon to watch online. Looking forward to watching FLOTUS speaking tonight.
Bobby Thomson
@gogol’s wife: they were at the convention.
aimai
@Gian: And when you are (I think) the first woman head of the DNC?
RK
@Keith G: We’ll see. In the meantime it’ll look awful and it’s something Democrats don’t need.
Kropadope
@The Thin Black Duke:
Is that the propagandists’ artful term for mocking idiots?
satby
@Reggie Mantle: ATTENTION FRONT PAGERS: this one can be offloaded now, see the linked comment for why.
different-church-lady
@Hal:
Yeah, well that’s what I used to think. Now I’m starting to wonder how many of them are going to metaphorically go black bloc on our asses.
Davebo
The news breaks the weekend before the convention and she has announced her resignation but that’s not enough. She should bail immediately during the freaking convention because a bunch of idiots who thought a “fart in demonstration” was a good idea.
Give me a break. We all know these idiots wouldn’t be satisfied if Bernie walked across the stage with her head on a pike and a ton of them will be booing Clinton as well.
Sorry Mistermix but the stupid here is strong.
lamh36
someone tell me this is a parody site…please.
or a misquote
Quote of the Day: Susan Sarandon Says Bernie Sanders is Just Like Unarmed Black Men Being Shot By Cops
Mnemosyne
@Marc:
Sanders delegates at the DNC are booing everyone who talks about supporting Clinton/Kaine, up to and including booing Bernie himself when he said it.
I don’t think the problem is with Clinton supporters, even online ones.
BR
@gogol’s wife:
Actually, I think we need to ask the front pagers to start posting GOTV / phonebank / canvass report threads where we can discuss our grassroots activities and challenge ourselves to do more. Sort of like what Tim F. did during the Obamacare fight to call congress.
Mnemosyne
I’m going on the record now to say that if these whiny fucks boo FLOTUS tonight, I will not be responsible for my actions. If you hear about someone running around So Cal ripping up Bernie stickers and yard signs, that’ll be me.
pamelabrown53
@pamelabrown53: @MomSense:
Exactly. This sort of demonizing fratricide that appears to be spear headed against women will have a dampening effect. This is not a positive development for progressive causes.
Keith G
@gogol’s wife: What is disheartening is that the non-trolls take the bait…as if they have something to prove; as if there is an argument to be joined.
They don’t and there isn’t.
The team ruining this convention are head deep in talent. That is yet another reason why by next week the concerns debated here will be gone in the mist.
Villago Delenda Est
@Kropadope: There must be a fire somewhere you can find to die in. Get with the program.
? Martin
@RK: Actually, conventions should be informercials for your process that leads to that nominee, thereby conferring authority to that nominee. And I know that sounds unbearably boring, but an awful lot about this election is about process issues. Who gets to participate, who provides the money, who gets the benefits. BLM is to a large extent a process story. TPP is to large extent a process story.
People are upset because the processes in their lives seem arbitrary and unpredictable. Why black people get stopped by the police is arbitrary and unpredictable. How trade agreements are developed appears arbitrary and unpredictable (which is why the howls are more about fast-track authority and the lateness by which the legislature gets to see it than about what’s actually in the TPP). Which school will get shot up (and terrorism in general) seems arbitrary and unpredictable – there’s no ‘bad neighborhood’ which you can choose to avoid to protect against it.
Chris Hayes’ ‘Twilight of the Elites’ is largely about process stories breaking down so that it appears you have a bunch of rich white guys making decisions for everyone, and then fucking them up (Catholic church telling everyone to be pious and then failing to deal with a rampant child molestation problem). The parties are suffering from the same problem, IMO. Democrats less than Republicans, but still not doing a great job.
Keith G
@Mnemosyne: Oh my. Well at least you have that white female thing going, so you likely won’t be shot.
Gin & Tonic
@RK:
Headline on Channel 5 (of Ukraine, which knows something about mass protests) “In the USA, the Democratic national convention opens against a background of mass protests.”
That’s the image the US is presenting to the world.
Kropadope
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I’m pretty sure at the time I was saying I wouldn’t support Bernie either. You’re full of shit now, just like you were full of shit then and from the beginning.
As to your question, I didn’t say the media made Bernie do anything, so why should I dignify your strawman with an answer? You’re one of a handful of people around here who can’t seem to put forth an argument without lying. Get bent.
@Villago Delenda Est:
Trying to figure out the exact date that most of this blog was assimilated by the borg.
Iowa Old Lady
Warren, Sanders, and FLOTUS are all speaking tonight. I was encouraged by that lineup because I thought they’d be immune to boo’s even if they praised the party’s nominee. Now I’m not so sure.
aimai
@Mnemosyne: Yes, I love the notion that when unnamed people boo DWS its because she deserved it and she needs to “get off the stage” and stop being such a drag but when Bernie’s own supporters boo him for lack of purity its somehow not Bernie’s fault but totally a problem of the Democrats as well, somehow. Bernie built this monster of entitlement and now he can’t figure out how to shove it back in the closet.
lamh36
@davidfrum
Linnaeus
@Cacti:
This strikes me as a Dolchstoßlegende-style argument and while it has the benefit of being unable to be disproved, it doesn’t make it a more accurate explanation. It also suffers from the internal contradiction of positing a numerically small or even insignificant group that nonetheless has enough power to significantly alter political outcomes, with no credible explanation as to how they do so.
There were a lot of contextual factors at work in the 1968, 1980, and 2000 elections that swamped whatever influence the fringe left might have had. Look, I don’t like the “heighten the contradictions” folks either, but they’re not major players in US politics.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Kropadope: kinda early in the day, isn’t it?
MomSense
I just want to laugh at this whole ridiculousness about the DNC being out to get Sanders. Whatever conspiracy or actions you think the chair and her immediate staff took against Sanders, it seems far fetched to me. For the DNC to have rigged the process it would have required the cooperation of so many people. You would have to get the state committees, county committees, town committees, precinct captains, caucus organizers, etc. I stopped going to town committee meetings after we spent about 20 minutes discussing what kind of coffee (fair trade, cheaper, etc.) and we didn’t even have a working phone, chairs, desks, internet, or a coffee pot.
Aside from the reality that the DNC never raised the atheism charge before any state primary or caucus, we are mostly a bunch of volunteers. I just can’t imagine a more unlikely organization to carry out some big sabotage operation against Sanders.
Fair Economist
@gogol’s wife:
I think the supply is somewhat limited and they were being deployed to righty blogs then.
Miss Bianca
@lamh36: Well Dave, better late than never, eh?
cmorenc
Thankfully some key democratic party / HC campaign folks must have finally run out of patience hoping DWS would take the hint, and frankly told her the only way she would make any further public appearances at the convention would be over all of their dead bodies. Wouldn’t surprise me if it turns out that Donna Brazile was the one reading the riot act to DWS after today’s disastrous breakfast appearance by DWS before the Florida convention delegation.
Kropadope
@aimai:
What makes you so sure it was Bernie’s own supporters booing him?
BR
Has anyone been out canvassing? Any idea how those of us not in a swing state can help?
Keith G
@lamh36: Noooo. Damn it. The biggest news is DWS and the BernieBoos!!!
Blueskies
@aimai:
True but dull. Based on years of underperforming, she was riding for a fall, and if what finally got her isn’t quite fair, well I guess that’s pretty normal here on Planet Earth.
Kropadope
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: What is that even supposed to mean?
Gin & Tonic
@lamh36: While I know many members of the Reagan-era Committee on the Present Danger have died, not all have. I have yet to see any of their voices on this.
Yes, I know the current composition of the body with the same name, and its interests/obsessions are different.
aimai
@? Martin: No, conventions really shouldn’t be commercials for process. That’s a ridiculous way of thinking about it. By the time anyone tunes into a convention they just want to see unity on display–they want to see their representatives and their political party dressed up in nice clothes and waving nice state flags. They don’t want to see everyone naked, or know who backstabbed who to get a better seat. Because when we ask for people’s vote we are telling them we aren’t going to waste it settling old scores, or attacking people.
And THIS convention is all the more like that because it is all about creating and affirming brand loyalty to a specific kind of political party: a democratic party and the Obama base voter and their interests. It doesn’t need to have legitimacy conferred on it by some arcane rehash of the voting rules in caucuse states vs primary states. The constituencies of the new democratic party: POC, latinos, women, LGBTQ, and yes, even white progressives already had that discussion during the primaries. And one candidate won handily. Now its all about coming together and building on the Obama legacy to create an even more solid foundation for progress.
If Bernie had won perhaps he would have wanted to have a different public conversation but he didn’t. And permitting his sliver of the voting population to dominate the convention with public dissension just to feed their ego is hugely damaging to what the actual nominee and the former head of the party Barack Obama want to see happen. So definitionaly that is an insult, as well, to all of Hillary’s voters (women, POC, etc…) who chose her, not Bernie, chose her policies, not Bernie’s process argument.
Villago Delenda Est
@Kropadope: All you’re doing now is antagonizing people who should be your allies.
If that’s being turned into a Borg, well, fuck it, “resistance is futile”.
NickM
NPR has a story looking at why Putin would like to leak the DNC’s emails. The number one most liked comment is not by an outraged Republican (you have to look pretty deep for those), it’s by a “progressive” idiot or a ratfucker posing as one, but probably the former. He says:
“Who the F cares? Why would the DNC be so blatantly in Hillary’s camp? Pointing at Russia just makes Hillary and the DNC look like children. “Don’t look at our dirty laundry…Hey, it’s Putin over there!” Give me a break.”
If people like that are the hippies, I now completely understand why people want to punch them. I thought all the stupid ones were supposed to be on the other side.
Soprano2
These Bernie supporters are starting to remind me of nothing more than spoiled children who threaten to hold their breath if they don’t get their way.
The Thin Black Duke
@Kropadope: No, it’s just that I find your pretentious, condescending and dishonest attempts to imagine yourself as a martyr because your candidate lost is amusing. Nelson Mandela you’re not.
aimai
@Blueskies: “Riding for a fall?” What does that even mean? Its incredibly cavalier and shows a total disregard for an actual person’s real life and reputation. In the real world of politics when you’ve worked hard, raised money, helped people get elected, you don’t get shoved out the window unceremoniously and have your name smeared if your friends can help it. And one reason they try to prevent it is that they owe you, and you owe them because you’ve been working with them for a long time and will keep working with them long after the people who bitched and moaned about how you didn’t do a good enough job have packed up and gone home to their own lives doing fuck all for the party.
BR
I’m also curious if anyone knows of good voter registration organizations to donate to, especially ones doing swing state minority voter reg. Acorn used to do that back in the day, before the GOP managed to kill them off.
Fair Economist
@Keith G:
That didn’t save Anna Politkovskaya. Putin’s assassins don’t seem to limit themselves that way, and it’s his puppet that’s running.
pamelabrown53
@Emma:
Basically I agree with you: neither a supporter or a hater.
Keith G
@BR: Donate 5 or 10 every time you can. Hook up with folks you know in the key states and help them find the plot. If you live driving distance from a swing state boarder, see if there a registration drive you can assist with during a day trip.
Kropadope
@The Thin Black Duke:
My candidate is accepting the Democratic nomination this week, ass. My refusal to stand by idly wile you lot spew bile for no fucking reason is not a signifier of Bernie or Bust tendencies, just my impatience with liars, authoritarians, and fools.
@Villago Delenda Est:
That’s what I was trying to say months ago and I’m not playing nice with people who are determined to be assholes.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
starting?
aimai
@Kropadope: If you don’t know who booed him you are the only one–and he specifically responded to the boos with reference to the fact that these were his supporters.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@lamh36: Clickbait headline.
She says something about both things saying something about our society. I think she’s trying to say that both are examples of apathy.
I think.
? Martin
@Mnemosyne: I’d help, but I’ve never seen a Bernie sign or sticker here.
aimai
@Kropadope: Who asked you to play? Its not a game.
Ruckus
@Splitting Image:
I’m having trouble seeing her as much of a problem, other than optics at all. And I will qualify that to say that I don’t particularly like her and I don’t think she has done all that great a job. But the level of butthurt that I’m seeing from the berniebros is just fucking unbelievable. Trump is not the only shit show around.
FlipYrWhig
@Soprano2: I think it’s more like those kids who throw themselves down in the store aisle screaming, knowing that it’s going embarrass their parent in front of strangers.
gogol's wife
@Keith G:
I hope you mean “running” and not “ruining”!
? Martin
The amusing bit is that the Bernie supporters who demanded and were promised a revolution against the Democratic party are now upset that the Democratic party saw them as revolutionary and discussed how to handle that. The emails they are so upset about are pretty much the only evidence that exists that anyone took them seriously.
Mike J
@BR:
Downticket races. If your state is safe for Hillary, look at house and senate seats, Look at the state legislature.
Here in Washington, we have coördinated campaign offices where you can go in and work for every Dem on the ballot.
EZSmirkzz
Interesting read on the hack of the DNC at ARS
I think most of you have your flags crossed up. (That’s Southern talk for shooting your own troops.)
geg6
@JMG:
Talk about incompetent? Bernie himself couldn’t control his own delegates and got booed at the CA delegate meeting for mentioning Hillary.
He’s an ass and his delegates should be locked out. Fuck them all. Every single one of them.
gwangung
@BR:
I can get behind this.
Davebo
@? Martin:
Really? Sort of like how primary rules are arbitrary and unpredictable? Because both of these only seem that way to people who are clueless about both.
Hint: Just because someone doesn’t understand the process doesn’t make the process arbitrary.
Cat48
DWS was not the problem. The Berniebrats obviously have had no home training. Screaming & booing are the only communication tools they have. Bernie can’t control anything they do so they obviously don’t even respect him.
Kropadope
@aimai:
Never heard of a metaphor before, huh?
Mnemosyne
@Marc:
I know that, and you know that, but the Bernie delegates booing anyone who talks about “unity” don’t seem to have gotten the memo. They’d rather sink the ship in the middle of the ocean than not have the captain they wanted.
The Thin Black Duke
@geg6: “You fucked up! You trusted us!”
BR
@Keith G:
Do there’s a risk of the out of state thing hurting, like Dean ’04?
lethargytartare
@Kropadope:
just the “braindead assholes” part
The Thin Black Duke
@Kropadope: Ah, the white male privilege is strong in this one.
JPL
I guess Trump said on of our many friends hacked the DNC, just now.
link David Frum
From Katy Tur
“She worked very hard to rig the system little did know that China Russia one of our many many friends hacked the hell out of us.” – Trump
dogwood
@Kropadope:
So booing conventions speakers who mention their support for Hillary is advancing some greater good? The PUMAs didn’t go that far. What I do know is if they boo Michelle Obama tonight, she will handle it well. She was supposed to be the closer tonight which makes sense since she is so admired and respected by the party. But Bernie demanded her spot, and we have no idea what he will say, do, or how he will handle his supporters. Nice way to end day 1.
Keith G
@BR: Here’s the thing. Hillaryclinton.com is a great gateway. Use it.
Click the ‘ACT’ menu for them to contact you about volunteering or click ‘Contact’ and fill out the form requesting the specific info you desire.
Blueskies
@aimai: So you think DWS was some screaming success as head of the DNC? I’m certainly willing to be exposed to data I’ve missed. Please enlighten me (and, apparently, most of the rest of the world), cause we’re just not seeing it.
We ARE in the real world of politics and people DO get shoved out the door (window, etc.) all the time. From what we’re reading right here on this thread, DWS was riding for a fall that was only delayed because POTUS just didn’t feel like putting up with the pouty fall-out from an ouster.
Kropadope
@The Thin Black Duke: What does white or male have to do with anything? I mean besides what subjects you think I’m allowed an opinion on?
BR
@Mike J:
I would help downticket but this area (Northern CA) is solid blue.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
To be fair, he didn’t try.
bupalos
Love Bernie, wish he was a little more reality-based. Love Hilz, wish she was a little more egalitarian way down deep in her deepest places. But don’t really care about any of that right now LET’S SHITSTOMP THE NASTY FASCIST MADE-FOR-TEEVEE ABORTION THAT IS DER DRUMPFENFUHRER AND EAT HIS LIVER WITH NICE CHIANTI!
BR
@Keith G:
Ok. I tried that and there are some local phone banks. I guess I’ll ask them…
RK
@? Martin:
Voters understand the process by which someone becomes the nominee which is why they voted so I disagree here.
EriktheRed
@Marc:
Uh….
Fuck no.
BR
@gwangung:
Awesome, let’s keep bringing it up until the frontpage features lots of action posts.
The Thin Black Duke
@Kropadope: Aimai wasn’t rude to you. Please show her the same courtesy.
Joel
My hypothesis is that the party grilled DWS about the content of the DNC leak when it occurred, and that she withheld some critical information. For this reason, she was fired (in the Seinfeldian sense).
Mnemosyne
@Kropadope:
I’m sorry, are you going to try to pretend to be persuadable at this point? After all of us reading your anti-Hillary rants for at least, what, five years? Six?
Ruckus
@Betty Cracker:
This. I’m not getting to the Tim Kaine level of approval (Didn’t know all that much about him, like what I’ve heard a lot – a much heard concept) about DWS but this massive amount of bullshit is way over the top for a DNC chairperson. It isn’t like this is the only job she has, and while many, many people have called for her head, I really have a difficult time understanding the high level of hate towards her, as if she is personally responsible for the entire democratic party and every word/direction it has taken over the last few yrs.
JPL
@EriktheRed: We definitely know who is closer to Putin.
negative 1
@The Thin Black Duke: Pretty sure Aimai is a guy. He/she can feel free to speak up otherwise, though.
Keith G
@BR: Not sure what you are referencing, but I regularly make small donation to hillaryclinton.com. They can use it for ads, office supplies, or funding a canvas anywhere they feel the need. And you get a lot of friendly emails from important people in return :)
I am sure that the Hillary’s people could guide to state or community organizations for you to partner with if that is your desire.
Call/email county Democratic Parties in whatever state and ask them about what they need in either person power or $$ if they are doing registration or similar activities.
@negative 1: Wrong.
Mnemosyne
@Keith G:
Now I can’t explain to the other people in the lunchroom what made me laugh out loud. Thanks a lot.
cokane
@Kropadope: Unfortunately some of the discourse on the left has really taken a nosedive for this election year. Some liberals are literally unable to articulate anything beyond racial ad hominem that’s frankly indistinguishable from alt-right trollery save for its targets.
lamh36
Trump on Elizabeth Warren: “She’s got a fresh mouth. Other than that, she’s got nothing going.”
? Martin
Aw, Tim LaHaye not raptured. Guess he just gets to rot in the ground like the rest of us.
geg6
@tobie:
Seriously. I’m so sick of sexist male Dems I could just kill the next I run into. I expect of the GOPers, but this has been a real eye opener as to how male Dems of a certain large subset are, perhaps, bigger pigs than most GOPers ever will be. And I say that because those Dems know better and claim to be better. Over the last few days, they have literally made me sick to my stomach.
Brachiator
Some Los Angeles talk radio hosts at the convention have interviewed some of the Bernie people. They are saying that Hillary is not progressive enough, and they are not constrained by the Sanders endorsement.
These people insist on backing themselves into a corner.
This convention may not be blandly happy and uneventful. Sigh.
Mnemosyne
@BR:
But Kropadope is so close to finishing his papier-mâché puppet of Hillary as a blood-soaked zombie! Can’t we have just a few more minutes?!
EriktheRed
@Cacti:
There are other reasons to be against DWS besides being a Sanders supporter. I’m a Clinton supporter whw wanted her incompetent ass out after the last midterms.
Mnemosyne
@gogol’s wife:
I say you go pick out the wine you’ll be having with the speeches tonight. Probably white, just in case Bernie decides to go off-script.
WaterGirl
@BR: Go to a swing state thats near you. Or go visit friends or relatives in a swing state and work for the campaign while you are there.
WaterGirl
@Blueskies: Twas ever thus. Budget cuts? Cut the employees that are a pain in the butt and blame it on the budget cuts. It’s the exact same thing that’s happening here. They get rid of the problem while being able to say “we had no choice”.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
They’re more interested in hating the Demon than in supporting their Messiah. Shocking, I know.
Thanks, Bernie!
Mnemosyne
@Keith G:
I have knitting needles at the ready. Sharp, pointy ones. Do. Not. Mess. With. Michelle.
Iowa Old Lady
I trust all the speakers are being coached on how to react to any booing. I assume the sound and cameras are controlled by the press, so there’s not much that can be done there to direct attention away from idiots.
negative 1
@Blueskies: This. Thing is, I’m not sure who exactly is arguing for keeping her? HRC didn’t like her. She wanted her gone. It’s as likely as not to me that HRC used the opportunity to get rid of her since she wanted to anyway.
Look, folks, and I mean this in the most sincere party unity way possible — remove the Bernie and Hillary context and this is a nothing of a story. DWS was not well liked by either candidate in the party primary, or at the very least had a ton of controversy in a position that doesn’t call for it. It’s not rare that bad dealings by underlings fall at the feet of the boss. It happens a lot. She was ousted because she had no real support, and nothing I see makes me believe that was a reason to support her on the evidence of the way she did her job. I could be wrong, but even people who want her to stay because Hillary don’t seem to be able to point to what she did that was good. Neither candidate liked her. Obama picked her because she was a good fundraiser, but the job has a shelf life and she reached it. Why are we arguing about this? People in this thread are basically her only supporters. If you are supporting her as some weird proxy for a larger argument, know that it only matters to you and please stop talking about ‘party unity’.
Kropadope
@Mnemosyne:
The only thing that would persuade me to vote for someone other than Hillary is if a third-party candidate passes Trump in the polls. That doesn’t mean I can’t criticize her when I think she’s wrong about something. I know it’s hard to distinguish between “support” and “round the clock rah rah cheerleading.” You’re kind of like the Republicans in that regard.
@The Thin Black Duke:
Aimai was being obtuse. Since ‘m reasonably sure (s)he is not stupid, I have to assume it was deliberate, purposeful obtuseness.That’s not exactly perfect etiquette.
@dogwood:
No, it’s awful and a bad look for the convention. But blaming Bernie isn’t helping anything, there were a lot of factors in how these people came to feel disenfranchised. Little of it has actually had to do with the Democrats, but the Democrats haven’t addressed it well. Now they have to deal with it.
lethargytartare
@Cat48:
this. with or without DWS, that e-mail still gets sent, because Bernie still creates a bunch of anti-DNC followers ready to file lawsuits every time they lose a primary. Bernie still attacks Clinton and the party as corrupt. he still discounts core constituents of the Democratic party. He still pisses off the horrible “lifelong party aparatchiks” (how did aparatchik become a derogatory word anyway? how do you even have a party without them?). And he still creates genuine concern that he is not participating in good faith and will not accept the primary results, or at least will (as we have seen him do) encourage his voters to view the process as illegitimate.
I’m not even sure the DNC really does need to “follow its own bylaws” when the candidate in question is publicly calling those very bylaws illegitimate.
geg6
@AnonPhenom:
She nominates Bernie for anything other than ambassador to Latvia or, better, Iceland, and I’m done canvassing and phone banking and donating.
I want nothing to do with that idiot in any any official capacity unless it is far, far, far outside this country in a small, non-newsworthy country.
Blueskies
@BR:Best suggestion I’ve seen here in a long time. My meager contributions are usually money and driving retirement community residents to the polls (and helping them when we get there). If you ever want to really experience voter suppression up close and personal, volunteer to take infirm older poor people of color to the polls. One year it took me all day to help just two people. The Republicans are very, very good at making life a living hell for poor people.
Mnemosyne
@BR:
Vote Riders. There are probably others as well, but that’s the best-known one right now.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Ruckus: I sorta kinda give her a break on doing a bad job as party chair, because I suspect a lot of that weakness is actually in the job. But I think at least one of the qualifications should be: Good on TV, another: Appealing to the base. DWS was most notable for being a Blue Dog, and lobbying on behalf of payday lenders was, morality aside, suggests a shocking level of cluelessness. Obama doesn’t like her, Reid apparently hates her. She might have been able to get through this if she had more friends.
My recollection is Obama wanted Jennifer Granholm who I think meets my two qualifications above, but she didn’t want the job.
Villago Delenda Est
@Kropadope: This is because now you’re the asshole, asshole.
gwangung
@BR:
Action posts may get meager postings (but not all the time!), but I find them as usable as Richard Mayhew’s postings.
jenn
@EriktheRed: I’m pretty sure Marc was referring to the polls, not their policies.
Kropadope
@dogwood: But, frankly, if I can’t air my grievances h the Democrats here, among likely Democratic voters, where can I air them? I’m a little more on message when dealing with independents because I want to convince them to vote Democratic under most circumstances and Republicans don’t even want to discuss reality, so I’m too busy trying to convince them of the shape of the Earth.
@Villago Delenda Est: And If can’t respond by being an asshole to people who are being assholes to me, whom can I be an asshole to? I don’t proclaim to be perfect and I don’t want to be. The problem is thin skinned bullies around here who can dish it out but not take it.
WaterGirl
@BR: In 2008 fa lot of people hung out on the obama blog. Some people had the time or a life situation that allowed them to go to a swing state to help, but they didn’t have the means to get themselves there. Other people had money or airline miles but weren’t able to go themselves.
So people got together and would use their airline miles to buy a ticket that some other person could use to get themselves to a swing state to volunteer. So if you have time or money or airline miles, that should get a body to a swing state, whether it’s yours or someone else’s.
aimai
@Blueskies: Yeah. No. They really don’t get shoved out of the way just as they are entering teh purely ceremonial part of their job. Its like asking someone to pay for the entire meal and then refusing to let them stay and eat it just because latecomers to the party demand their seat. Its incredibly rude. I get why it had to be done–to placate the screaming children rolling on the floor and holding their breath until they get one more one more one more sign of their power. But that doesn’t make it right at all. Its a sign of how increidbly infantile and recklessly cruel these little shitty children are they that can’t even shut up and let someone who worked her heart out for the party in a thankless task even gavel the damned thing in.
Mnemosyne
@Ruckus:
She’s been a Fox News object of hate for years now. Couple that with my suspicion that a chunk of Bernie’s delegates are former Paulistas, and you get today’s shitshow.
geg6
@Kropadope:
Surely you aren’t saying that Martin O’Malley’s vast army of delegates were booing Hilz?
Davebo
@geg6:
Settle down. Bernie really isn’t the whole problem and we need him in the Senate. Be pragmatic.
Keep Calm and let the Nominee handle it!
WaterGirl
@BR: Not if the campaign was smart about it, and the Obama campaign was. I was an out of state person in Iowa for the 10 days before the caucus, and there were lots of others. The trick was, there were 2 people assigned to every precinct. So nobody saw a flood of orange hats or anything like the Dean problem. They saw the same 2 people trudging through the cold and the snow for 9 days. They got to know our faces and they trusted us and appreciated us.
I wouldn’t worry about the Dean effect. I’m sure the Clinton campaign has learned from the Obama campaign.
geg6
@aimai:
If Bernie had won perhaps he would have wanted to have a different public conversation but he didn’t. And permitting his sliver of the voting population to dominate the convention with public dissension just to feed their ego is hugely damaging to what the actual nominee and the former head of the party Barack Obama want to see happen. So definitionaly that is an insult, as well, to all of Hillary’s voters (women, POC, etc…) who chose her, not Bernie, chose her policies, not Bernie’s process argument.
White men are the only ones that count. Not black people, even if they are the POTUS and FLOTUS, or women of any stripe at all. White men are the most important people in the world and their thoughts and feelings must be advantaged whatever the cost. If it causes an actual fascist to be elected POTUS, so be it. After all, it won’t be white men that suffer for it. They never do.
different-church-lady
@Keith G:
Dr. Freud? Paging Dr. Sigmund Freud?
Mnemosyne
@negative 1:
It’s possible to think that DWS was doing a crappy job and still be appalled at the level of vitriol being directed at her.
Women, especially (and I am one myself) are very wary of large crowds of men screaming and jeering at a woman. That sets up all kinds of really, really bad associations.
WaterGirl
@Joel: If you believe Al Giordano, there wasn’t much in the emails that would be a problem. If you read the stories that are out there about how/why DWS was forced out, I think you’ll see that your speculation may not be on target.
WaterGirl
@negative 1: @The Thin Black Duke: Pretty sure she is a mom and in a knitting group. And the granddaughter of a very famous writer.
different-church-lady
@MomSense: But thoughtcrime is weightless!
aimai
@Mnemosyne: Shhhh. Don’t mention that. Sexism and misogyny exist but you must never, ever, think about it in connection with progressive white men.
geg6
@negative 1:
Nope. Aimai is so not a guy.
different-church-lady
@Kropadope:
Reports said he was taking to his own delegates.
WaterGirl
@BR: One more thing you can do is bring food for the people who are volunteering. We got pretty tired of junk food and pizza and even sweets. (I know, hard to believe!) In Iowa and Colorado some people would bring that stuff but other people would bring real home cooked food and it was like heaven to get that.
There are a zillion ways you can help, and all of them will make you feel better than worrying about polls and being stressed by reading all the nay-sayers.
Davebo
I give up. They really are fucking morons. Seriously, the freaking invocation?
aimai
@negative 1: This is just so dumb. The head of the DNC runs the place from the moment they are chosen by the new party leader (DWS was chosen by Obama) until a couple of months before the next convention. They have, at that point, a largely ceremonial role and as a courtesy to them and all the work they’ve done for several years they gavel the convention in and out. This second order rationalization for why Hillary wanted DWS out is just nuts–I mean what the ever loving fuck? In the normal course of events no matter what kind of job DWS is thought to have done in the midterms or whatever other conspiracy theory type crap has been thrown at her she would simply have finished out her term over the next few days and Hillary’s own official choice would have come in after.
Are you discovering that not everyone celebrates the stupid scalp hunting of the Berners and so you feel the need now to blame DWS and Hillary for the shit show that is the howling mob?
different-church-lady
@? Martin:
“I don’t understand it: all we’re trying to do is destroy everything!”
negative 1
@Mnemosyne: By that construct are we not allowed to boo Carly Fiorina? Or Condoleeza Rice? No one likes being booed in public. If it bothers one, however, maybe don’t go into a job like politics, that requires you to speak to potentially hostile crowds.
@aimai: Since she helped undermine Joe Garcia and Raul Martinez doesn’t that make her racist? I can’t keep my tribal politics straight.
geg6
@Davebo:
I am infuriated over this behavior and I blame Bernie and entitled white male adult toddlers. So sick of them and their antics and I’ve had enough. I refuse to coddle them one more second.
Which brings me to why you feel the need to pat me on the head and tell me to settle down. I AM FUCKING PISSED. I am an adult woman who has seen and heard too much of this shit in my 58 years. I’m fucking done.
aimai
@Kropadope: We can take it. We have taken your crap for years. It is you who keep getting angry that you are the loner here, arguing stupid contrarian opinions that even you probably don’t really believe, or at any rate you haven’t thought out enough to be able to defend.
different-church-lady
@Davebo: You see? They were right to attack Bernie’s godlessness relentlessly and repeatedly by… never bringing it up.
Ruckus
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I’ve stated in other threads that I don’t like DWS and it is mostly for the reasons you pointed out.
But this is a thankless job, being DNC chair. Who else wanted it or would accept it? Not the person President Obama wanted, how far down the list was DWS? It can end your political career, probably easier than your political views. I can see someone fighting to keep the job until the end of it’s term, just to not be the loser who can’t do an impossible job. I also see this as being why democrats have such a difficult time getting unity, no matter what you do, you are going to be dissected publicly about your doing a shitty job, by people who don’t even know exactly what that shitty job entails.
I held a job in professional sports that no matter what I did, someone would be pissed off. I still have one person who publicly jumps in my face whenever he sees me and the incident he is pissed about, and he was responsible for, was 19 yrs ago and I left the job 11 yrs ago. Think how that might go if my livelihood depended upon hundreds or thousands (or millions) of people and their opinion of me, which they got from this one person. It wouldn’t matter if I was right or not. It wouldn’t matter what I believed or what I’d done.
That’s politics.
WaterGirl
@aimai: The articles I read said that Hillary wanted DWS out and Obama wanted DWS out long ago but Obama did not want the risk of her causing problems. Then this whole debacle happened, and they decided the distraction needed to stop, so she’s out.
aimai
@negative 1: Well–there you have it. You are treating DWS, and Hillary too, like they are the enemy. The convention is a convention in support of the actual nominee of the party. If Bernie entered into the primary, and his voters too, with the intention of treating the party’s nominee as the enemy then they can get the fuck out of there. Because that is not what running in any party’s primary means. You take our money, you take our time, you take our energy, and you damned well better support the nominee. I don’t even get how you can make such as stupid argument with a straight face. This isn’t a question of whether our women candidates and professionals are tough enough to take some cat calling and booing. ITs a question of how a bunch of entitled fucking elitist brogressives shit on the hard work of everyone in the DNC and in the audience by booing the people who organized the damend convention or who are being nominated there.
FUCK YOU for talking so contemptuously about women who have probably received more hostile attacks and death and rape threats in a month in the public eye than you have ever dreamed of.
different-church-lady
@negative 1:
At your own fuckin’ convention?!?
Are you for real?
FlipYrWhig
@Davebo: It really is Ron Paul redux, isn’t it?
negative 1
@aimai: If its ceremonial, and your organization gets eaten by the news cycle, it’s not a big deal to throw you overboard then is it? Keep calling me names, doesn’t mean you have a point. Again — it’s really a bigger deal to you, since Hillary didn’t want her either. And I’m not talking about this scandal, I’m talking about nobody wanting her. Even Obama wanted her gone.
I know you’re such an insider that I should just take your word for it, but any day you want to source a disagreement to me I’ll listen.
aimai
@WaterGirl: So what? Does anyone in their right mind think that No Drama Obama and Hillary, a consumate professional, would have wanted to throw DWS out right before the convention? That’s absurd. Utterly absurd. I don’t understand the need to blame shift–well, I do, but for christ’s sake only a small group of people care enough to even know who DWS is, let alone to get excited about seeing her gavel in and out a convention. And its primarily people who want to fuck the democratic party up because bernie didn’t get the nod.
different-church-lady
@negative 1:
Oh, gosh, thanks so much for the permission!
Mnemosyne
@Davebo:
And assuming I have the schedule right, the speaker was a black woman: the Rev. Dr. Cynthia Hale.
Great optics there, assholes.
aimai
@negative 1: Such a lovely, victim blaming thing to argue that because Bernie’s camp made DWS a focus of hate and division that Hillary and Obama then are responsible for pushing her out. Its so very “its out there” of you.
Look–own your own shit, or in this case Bernie’s shit. He spent months demonizing DWS and Hillary and the entire Democratic Party and also telling the press and ordinary voters that he would be able to tone it down before the convention–and then he couldn’t. He could not stop his out of control delegates from threatening to trash the convention. So once again the grown ups had to step in and try to figure out how to give the extortion team enough of what they want so they can settle down and act like grown ups for five seconds. But it didn’t work. But don’t blame this on Hillary or Obama or what you think they thought about DWS. Again: at this point, this week, her functions are purely ceremonial and obviously neither Obama nor Hillary would have forced her out absent the fact that she had become a lightning rod for bernie bro hate.
negative 1
@different-church-lady: When did you think that conventions were all party unity? They are deciding a candidate. Of late that has been attempted to be a PR push, but yeah — having to speak in public to people who don’t like you is kind of a part of the job.
aimai
@different-church-lady: Yes, he’s for real. And I think he even has a teenage daughter somehwere (IIRC). She must be so proud. When she comes home from receiving her first rape or death threats I’m sure he’ll tell her to toughen up, lassie! Too bad Barbara Boxer, Hillary Clinton, and, oh, I don’t know, Gabby Giffords or Michelle Obama don’t know anything about being attacked and threatened.
different-church-lady
@negative 1: So basically what you’re saying here is you haven’t actually watched a convention since 1980?
negative 1
@aimai: The Sanders campaign forced Obama to find a replacement for her in 2012 before calling it off? Just so they could “claim a scalp” when they lost a primary? Man, that is some eleven dimensional chess right there.
Why do you support her? Why should I? Call me whatever, the question remains.
dogwood
@WaterGirl:
I also think the Dean campaign didn’t really train the orange hat brigade in terms of what their role was and how to represent the campaign. I had 2 ex students who worked for Obama ’08 in Iowa and Colorado, and they said they were well educated about his positions and his expectations for anyone involved. Politics is the only profession where for years those who practiced it had to pretend they aren’t “professionals”. We’ve now come to the place where they aren’t pretending anymore. Trump and a shitload of the freedom caucus/teaparty types really aren’t professional politicians or public servants. They’re ignorant, dangerous morons who know little and couldn’t care less about governance.
different-church-lady
@aimai:
Mnemosyne
@negative 1:
Yes, if the ladies would just keep their pretty little heads out of politics and let the men concentrate on what’s really important, we wouldn’t have all these problems! Gosh, I’m sure glad that I have a man here to explain to me why this wasn’t creepy or disturbing at all and I shouldn’t believe my lying eyes!
negative 1
@different-church-lady: nope not a one
aimai
@negative 1: This is so dumb that it barely even deserves to be responded to but I will because I’m generous like that.
No one is complaining that DWS is too weak to take being booed or shouted down. She didn’t quit her job in politics because of it. She got forced out because asshole bernie supporters were threatening to make an ugly scene at the convention and the party hierarchy didn’t want that. So we aren’t talking about how DWS feels about it. But some of us have the temerity to talk about how it makes Hillary’s voters, more than 50 percent of them female, feel when they see prominent political women attacked and booed at their own convention. Its ugly. And the fact tht you keep repeating this moronic taunt (all that it would take to make it absolutely the craptacular nadir of such remarks would be to phrase it as “if you can’t stand the heat get out of the kitchen) is just jaw dropping. At this point I hope you are a republican troll, because you make me ashamed of the men in the party.
negative 1
@Mnemosyne: Nice try but you didn’t answer my question.
So no booing Fiorina or Rice?
Captain C
@jl: I have a FB friend who’s heading to Philly from AZ. The Kickstarter (or suchlike) page he set up to help fund it calls it a “political Woodstock.” It’s hard to take seriously anyone who compares a political convention (even the protests around it) to a 3-day music festival and mudbath.
negative 1
@aimai: Are you not reading my links or do you choose not to respond to the fact that Obama wanted her gone in 2012 and Hillary in 2014? Bernie has no actual power, so he didn’t actually push her out or encourage her now. I’m so dumb I can’t type, so I’ve obviously missed why anyone is still supporting her, but I haven’t seen a.) a reason from anyone or b.) a response to the fact that Bernie is but the latest presidential candidate, which I may point out makes 3 for 3, who wants her gone.
But yeah I’m sexist, since that’s all you’ve got.
aimai
@negative 1: Yes, no booing or threatening fiorina or rice. I don’t know why you think this is such a stunning conundrum. Its also going to look different for an all white crowd to boo a black candidate. I’m sorry if that is so hard for you to understand. Perhaps you are one of those white men who are really, really, angry that you can’t use the N word? or that you can’t call Hillary a bitch? Because you absolutely can–you just need to head on over to a Trump rally. But you don’t get to call yourself a progressive or even a democrat if the best you can think to do at a convention is to try to shout the speaker down.
aimai
@negative 1: You are a moron and a sexist too. I’m pretty clear on that. No matter what neither Hillary nor Obama wanted the story, on the eve of the convention, to be about DWS and neither would have made her the story absent Bernie’s hysterical fans.
Keith G
@different-church-lady: Don’t need Freud, I need Mavis Beacon.
dogwood
@geg6:
Thinking aimai is a male is the first clue that the guy is pretty clueless
different-church-lady
@negative 1: My mistake: I thought the “her” we were discussing was Clinton, not DWS. In other words, the booing of the nominee. I’m sure lesser-level booing goes on all the time.
Mnemosyne
@negative 1:
Funny, I don’t remember either Fiorina or Rice being booed by the crowd at the Republican National Convention. Do you have a link to the video for that?
But I guess you think that women should be fully prepared to be attacked at all times, even a longtime Democratic Congresswoman speaking at the Democratic National Convention. Bitch has the temerity to get onstage in front of a crowd of her fellow party members, what did she expect, amirite?
Again, I’m very glad to have you explain to me that women should never expect to have any mixed-gender safe space, anywhere, even at the convention that they themselves organized. It’s been much more instructional than you seem to realize.
Applejinx
@Soprano2: _I_ am a Bernie supporter demonstrating it by following HIS LEAD and supporting Clinton/Kaine, which is what Bernie says to do and he’s right to say so.
Sucks to be him: right the whole time (up to and including knowing the DNC was in the tank for Hillary, as was their choice to be), but now he can’t go along with his lefty fringe because they’re stupid and nihilistic, and he can’t just tell them to fuck off because he doesn’t want the one-two punch of first losing the primary and then pissing off his noisiest supporters and getting drummed out of the Senate.
He now needs Clinton as much as she needs him: he unearthed a big ol’ cache of voters who are NOT out there booing him and everybody else worth a damn. He documented their existence and what they wanted without Clinton having to do it (would never have happened) and has now brought at least… half? 90%? of them on board working for the Democrats.
I don’t know who you people know but my younger friends are largely either resigned to Clinton and cheered by the Kaine pick, or outright Clinton boosters plus cheered by the Kaine pick. Those ones are black… I have one count them one Buster whom I’ve unfollowed on Facebook, and a family member who’ll probably bite the bullet and vote Clinton as his wife is notably Clinton-friendly. Plus I’m trying to clear the way, cautiously, since I can’t bully like a Balloon Juice Clintonite or he’ll just think I’m crazy.
Shut up all of you with painting all Bernie supporters to be like these possibly Russian-prompted ‘protesters’. All I need to know about them is that they’re now refusing to accept Bernie’s judgement. And like I told one, I trust Bernie more than I trust you.
THEY DO NOT GET TO BE CALLED BERNIE LOYALISTS WHEN THEY’RE BOOING HIM ffs. Also, do you not think these people would have been there anyway? It’s like they would not have existed and he created them with some incantation about billyunaires?
negative 1
@aimai: So names, not evidence or actual arguments to support your positions. How very liberal of you. Got it.
negative 1
@Mnemosyne: Again, your assertion was that booing DWS was out of bounds because
I do think that all politicians should be prepared to be booed, yes. I think it’s part of the job. I don’t that it’s great, but it goes with the job. I also don’t think that just because DWS is a woman is sexist if people don’t like her.
different-church-lady
@aimai: as loath as I am to end up on the same side as your sparing partner, I gotta say this one isn’t on Bernie, and not even directly on the dead-enders. They’re just leveraging something a set of greater rat-fuckers did. They might be looting with all their might, but they didn’t set this bomb off.
Mnemosyne
Since I’m pretty sure what the next response from negative_1 is going to be, do any of my fellow lovely ladies have a GIF or emoticon of the jerking off motion? I’m pretty sure it’s going to come in handy right quick.
different-church-lady
@Applejinx:
The correct term is, “The Bernie Delegates previously known as Bernie Loyalists”
Ruckus
@negative 1:
Dude, you are punching way above your weight class. But then from your handle, I’d guess that you like being a prick.
dogwood
@aimai:
This! I would never go to any event in order to boo people. What’s the point? It says nothing about the person on stage, be that Condoleeza Rice or Hillary Clinton, but it speaks volumes about the petty, juvenile trolls who show up to get attention. It’s mob mentality. It shows a lack of discipline, decency and class. And it doesn’t advance any agenda whatsoever.
different-church-lady
@Applejinx:
I repeat: Am I a fuckin’ genius or what?
Mnemosyne
@negative 1:
Whatever. Keep telling yourself that you didn’t just creep out a bunch of women by aggressively ignoring their telling you that watching a group or men booing a women is very disturbing to them. Next up, it’ll be time for you to lecture black people about how the latest police shooting victim should have behaved better so as not to get shot.
Is there any public behavior by a group of men towards an onstage woman that you would actually disapprove of, or is all, Bitchez need to toughen up or let the men take over from here on out?
Emma
@Applejinx: They are there as his delegates, aren’t they? Sanders is the only one who can legitimately take them on. He’s trying, I’ll give him that.
Emma
@different-church-lady: You certainly are.
Applejinx
@different-church-lady: Damn straight. Bernie knows better than them. They do not get to be loyalists while behaving this way.
Also, I believe that it’s all of them about as much as I believe a delegate in Nevada was throwing chairs, when I’d seen the video.
High time to support those who continued to keep faith with Bernie even when he turned from frantically trying to win, towards supporting the stronger candidate and building alliances in spite of all that, just as she would’ve done and DID do when it was her. Bernie’s not going to become Secretary of State, or get any cabinet position. But by GOD he is going to be a working Senator who can push the overton window in ways Hillary can’t. He will be the new John McCain for the media desperate for dirt. If he is friendly, and he is, and still cantankerous (and he is), he can carry a lot of water for the Democrats. Him and Warren. Turns out they have more useful roles than Veep.
Applejinx
@different-church-lady: Yeah, you nailed it. Now we untangle what we can.
dogwood
@Applejinx:
Why do you keep insisting that you don’t really believe that these Sanders delegates were booing Pelosi, DWS, and any mention of Clinton. Bernie can’t even answer a simple question posed by David Corn about what he thinks of the booing. You seem to be a very nice person, but you are willfully ignorant about the dark side of this “revolution” you support.
bargal20
They’re not shouting “Boo!”. They’re shouting “Boo-ernie”!
Applejinx
@dogwood: How many of them? Any of you saying ‘all the Sanders delegates’ are full of shit. They can’t ALL be douchebags and political fools.
To hear Giordiano tell it, there’s still a lot of them. Interesting, I wouldn’t have thought that, but it goes to show you Clinton is making the right decisions in trying to cope with things, work w. Sanders.
I think Sanders is a thousand times more in favor of Clinton than before, because now she’s his lifeline.
I wouldn’t boo Pelosi, but I’d damn well boo DWS. Over the payday lending and undermining Obama and Elizabeth Warren. I wouldn’t boo Warren either. Or Clinton…
dogwood
One thing is for certain, if Bernie can’t calm these people down, and there’s no evidence that he has the skills or much of a will to do it, then he isn’t going to be an effective surrogate for the ticket and should head back to Vermont. I want the press covering surrogates like Obama, Warren, Biden and Michelle, not following Bernie around incessantly interviewing his dead enders. If the story coming out of Philadelphia is all about Bernie, DWS, and dems in disarray, then I suggest we don’t take that show on the road.
dogwood
@Applejinx:
Glad you are at least into selective booing. What a childish response.
Miss Bianca
@negative 1: you know what? Maybe you *should* just take your own advice and leave this forum for a while, if this is the level of discourse you’re up to. Telling a whole bunch of women why they shouldn’t be feeling skeeved out about watching prominent women politicians get booed and shamed for shit THEY DIDN’T DO? And then saying by way of justification, “well, what about booing REPUBLICAN women? Is that not OK?”
A shame, and a hissing shame, on your head. Go be “negative1” somewhere else.
Mandalay
@cmorenc:
Well Brazile was implicitly reading the riot act to DWS when she said this today:
DWS had every opportunity to say those words publicly herself over the weekend, but chose to say absolutely nothing instead.