She didn’t even have time to get the “Et tu” out:
The controversial chair of the Democratic National Committee, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, announced she would resign at the end of her party’s convention this week, a victim of her toxic relationship with peers and a trove of embarrassing internal emails.
“Going forward, the best way for me to accomplish those goals [of winning the presidency for Hillary Clinton] is to step down as Party Chair at the end of this convention,” Wasserman Schultz said in a written statement. “As Party Chair, this week I will open and close the Convention and I will address our delegates about the stakes involved in this election not only for Democrats, but for all Americans.”
Donna Brazile, a Democratic Party stalwart, will serve as interim chair. Brazile, who briefly served as chair in 2011, is a CNN contributor, and must forgo that contract to take the reins of the DNC. And she’s still subject to a party vote this week in Philadelphia.
President Barack Obama paid tribute to her in a statement: For the last eight years, Chairwoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz has had my back. This afternoon, I called her to let her know that I am grateful.”
Presumptive Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton also issued a statement: “I am grateful to Debbie for getting the Democratic Party to this year’s historic convention in Philadelphia, and I know that this week’s events will be a success thanks to her hard work and leadership. There’s simply no one better at taking the fight to the Republicans than Debbie.”
The Berners got their scalp, so we can hopefully expect less madness this week.
LOLOLOLOL who the fuck am I kidding. They’re probably already bitching she didn’t resign effective today. I see you all felt very strongly about Nina Turner. So Castro is who you all like?
rikyrah
Kanye shrug
SFAW
So Donna Brazile can’t be on CNN’s dime, but Lewandowski can? OK then
redshirt
You could have just posted a comment in the identical thread you posted on this subject.
But whatevs.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Good christ, were you serious about Turner? I thought you were trolling. I like the Castro idea, or Paul Begala, the smartest Clintonite out there for my money. But the best idea, hat tip to Johnny Coelacanth, is Barney Fucking Frank.
Baud
Don’t know enough about what Castro brings to the table. But a Latino would be nice. No more officeholders, however.
FlyingToaster
No, I like Howard Dean, but I don’t think he wants the job, and I don’t think that he and the Clintons are particularly compatible.
Show me a professional D politician who is a) currently out of office and b) can organize/fundraise/not be an ass, and draft them.
Iowa Old Lady
Assuming Clinton wins, she gets to recommend who the new DNC head will be and the DNC votes. Brazile fills in in the mean time. Everybody else gets to shut up.
MattF
Donna Edwards would be good. (I think) she had to give up her House seat to run in the primary for Mikulski’s Senate seat.
ETA: She got her House seat by working -much- harder than the incumbent apparatchik.
jurassicpork
Wasserman Schultz is out. Thank you, Guccifer 2.0, where ever you are.
FlyingToaster
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: AAAAnd… Barney would be excellent.
Agrippa
Now that DWS is gone, people – Bernie’s friends in particular – will need a new drama. We will have to wait and see what that may turn out to be. I expect that something will come up.
But, the Convention is starting; and, after that, the campaign. That will be a show!
jamesjhare
Why should Bernie’s supporters give it up if y’all won’t?
If nothing else Wasserman-Schultz presided over an unprofessional operation where they put shit in email that shouldn’t have been put in email. They also failed to adequately secure their computer systems against external hacking. Both of those are more than good enough reasons for her to leave.
Just stop the hate for ostensible allies. There are plenty of folks opposed to the Democratic agenda out there. Hillary is the nominee. The primary is OVER. Let it go.
S Kizzire
Castro would be good so would Donna Edwards.
EZSmirkzz
Whatever will we do without the circular firing squad?!!
Agrippa
@FlyingToaster:
It seems to me that the DNC needs someone who can do all those things. The Party has been doing badly in off year and state elections.
S Kizzire
Yes. Barney needs to STFU. He knew what he was getting into and then whined for months on end. The party shouldn’t change the super delegates.
Baud
@jamesjhare: They aren’t going to stop. Not even Bernie’s endorsement of Clinton stopped them. No choice but to push back.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
are you referring to, or addressing, the people currently in Philadelphia having “Hillary for Prison” rally in the name of St Bernard?
Agrippa
@jamesjhare:
I agree 100%
Major Major Major Major
@EZSmirkzz: don’t worry, it’s reloading.
Chyron HR
Now that DWS is out, what filthy scheming Jew will the alleged Sanders supporters blame all of their problems on?
Trentrunner
@jamesjhare: Well, allies is as allies does.
Ain’t seen shit from Berniebros lately except for racist, sexist, homophobic SCALP-hunting.
Amaranthine RBG
Bernie Sanders said for months that the system was rigged against him.
He was right. This proves it, as if it wasn’t obvious all along.
It won’t dampen the enthusiasm of the Hilldos any, of course.
EZSmirkzz
@Major Major Major Major: Reckon so. Starting to sound like the old saw, lock five farmers in a room and when they come out they’ll have five opinions, all of them firm.
jamesjhare
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: If you want to go nutpicking that’s your prerogative. Generally I try to ignore people engaging in street theater at political conventions. They’re more concerned with getting noticed than accomplishing anything.
Obviously nearly any political movement is going to attract idiots. That doesn’t excuse the vitriol directed at ostensible allies right before the convention. Let it fucking go. Otherwise you’re giving the leaners an excuse to stay home.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
Reports of a large demonstration in Philly “lock her up” chants. It will never be over.
O. Felix Culpa
@Chyron HR: You mean what WOMAN will be blamed for Bernie losing to a WOMAN. The misogyny (among other things), it burns.
Baud
@jamesjhare: You just called them idiots. Why are you preaching about vitriol?
EZSmirkzz
@Chyron HR: Would it be possible for you to shove your head out your mouth and back up your ass a second time?
Amaranthine RBG
@Chyron HR:
I think you’re confused. It was DWS that wanted to publicize Sanders’ atheism to hurt him in West Virginia.
gwangung
@Amaranthine RBG:
I ask again…cite, then link to a DNC action.
Baud
@Amaranthine RBG: Evidence? Primary source please.
gwangung
@Amaranthine RBG: This is factually wrong.
Cite, then link.
Schlemazel Khan
I was out scraping the house in 89 degree temps. So gald I was not involved in the shithole below but imagine I may just as well go back out there and avoid this mess too.
Emma
@Amaranthine RBG: This proves that the party is trying to keep you morons from making more trouble during the convention and if Schultz had to fall on her sword to do it, so be it. But they made a mistake. You will never, ever quit.
MattF
I’m thinking this is genuine.
Percysowner
@Agrippa: Supposedly they are trying to cobble together 300 votes to force a floor vote and oust Kaine as VP. I can’t imagine the guy that almost everybody in the party likes and who is Hillary’s choice being ousted, but they are going to give it a go. I expect they just want to flounce the way the Republican delegates did when their votes were either denied or tampered with. Of course, in that case the party seems to actually have violated the rules of the convention, but the Bernie bots don’t care about no stinkin rules!
O. Felix Culpa
I don’t know anything about DWS’ relationship with peers…but, did anyone ACT on those stupid email suggestions? How is a stupid suggestion that never goes beyond wasted pixels the same thing as doing actual bad things in real life?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@jamesjhare: when Bernie un-shits the pool, I’ll stop noticing the floating sewage.
Amaranthine RBG
@gwangung:
It is to laugh.
MattF
@Percysowner: Even if they force a floor vote, it’s going to then take another 2000 votes to get a different VP. And, um, that’s not going to happen.
Schlemazel Khan
@FourTen:
thank you. that is it exactly, nothing more needs to be said.
sigaba
“If nothing else Wasserman-Schultz presided over an unprofessional operation where they put shit in email that shouldn’t have been put in email.”
Yeah these sorts of things should be discussed off the record in back rooms, or on email servers that are routinely scrubbed. You know, like how Bush handled it.
If someone wants to attack Bernie for being an “atheist” and the leadership decided not to do it, the system works. We don’t want people acting like every utterance they make in private is on the record, that makes people fearful.
Major Major Major Major
@EZSmirkzz: lock people in a room with nothing but 500 pictures of Joe Biden…
Trentrunner
I’m calling it:
As of 3:26pm today, Sunday, July 24, 2016, you BernieBros have officially done more harm to the Democratic presidential nominee than PUMAs did in 2008.
Congratulfuckinglations.
gwangung
@Amaranthine RBG: So, basically, you got nothing.
All mouth, no substance.
Percysowner
@O. Felix Culpa: Even more to the point, DWS’s answer to the stupid suggestions was “Yeah, we’re not doing that”. Well they got their pound of flesh. Let’s see what the next demand will be.
different-church-lady
Congrats, dead enders! You are now the 2014 Indianapolis Colts!
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@Percysowner: No Kaine, then No Clinton.
jamesjhare
@Baud: People shouting “Hillary for prison” are idiots. That’s not vitriol, it’s truth.
steve herl
While not much of a fan of DWS, she is the chair of the DNC ,and if the party elders feel that HRC is the best candidate to put forward then they should grease the skids. The general electorate can’t be trusted to pick a president as evidenced by the fact that roughly half the voters think The Donald would make a great chief executive and a sizeable portion of Dems think Bernie or Jill Stein should get their vote. This “one man one vote” thing had a good run but it may be time to turn this over to the professionals.
Keith G
It’s an ugly reality that she lasted this long. Last year would have been better. Two years ago, even better still.
@SFAW:
Please not Brazile. Let her continue to be a harmless pundit.
Mandalay
@Amaranthine RBG:
I doubt if anyone on BJ has gone after DWS more than me, but that is just not true. Go to wikileaks and dig up the relevant emails. What you are claiming is simply false.
jamesjhare
@MattF: I’m beginning to wonder if HA Goodman is trying at parody and failing.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Trentrunner:
Ummm, you do realize “scalp hunting” is racist right?
You’re not helping here.
Trentrunner
@Percysowner: MSNBC just announced that DWS will now not be presiding over the DNConv this week.
Mnemosyne
@jamesjhare:
Because they lost and refuse to admit it?
Seriously, if the Berniebros were a high school football team that refused to leave the field after a game because they just knew they should have won, would you think they were heroes fighting for what was right, or whiny sore losers?
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Amaranthine RBG: Looks like you picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.
Trentrunner
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Then stop doing it.
Baud
@Mandalay: Thanks for that.
Keith G
@Trentrunner:
No. Just no.
EZSmirkzz
@Major Major Major Major: Should have been four farmers, my bad. I have to go with the perfect frame.
jamesjhare
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: So when he meets your undetermined and unattainable standard of purity you’ll stop attacking other Democrats? That sounds like such a wonderful way to achieve party unity! Barack really stuck it to Hillary after her supporters were assholes, right?
O. Felix Culpa
@Percysowner: Yes. For some – hopefully a very very very tiny minority – it will never end. For the rest of us, we work to elect Hillary and (with only slight exaggeration) save civilization and our constitution.
As has been cited earlier, even WaPo editorial board agrees on the latter point.
scav
After a few more upgrades at CERN, we may actually be able to measure the importance a few of the crowers actually put on enacting actual stated platform agendas.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@jamesjhare: do you think there’s any connection between those idiots and an old man who spent several months shouting about Hillary Clinton and the vague corruption of Wall St speeches? You remember, the old man who couldn’t give an answer when asked to be specific about the quid pro quo, and then went right back to shouting.
bmoak
@Trentrunner:
Then who the hell’s running it? Running/organizing the convention is one of the primary things the DNC Chair does.
Trentrunner
Bloomberg just announced he’ll be speaking at the Convention this week to endorse Hillary.
Any Berniebros wanna lob something anti-Semitic while you’re on the hate train? Let’s hear it.
jamesjhare
@Mnemosyne: Dude this blog has been hate central for long enough that I stopped coming by. LET IT FUCKING GO. You puff up “BernieBros” into something worth hating and then use that as an excuse to spew hate at fellow Democrats. LET IT GO. The primary is over. You won. If some idiots are being idiots that’s on them but it doesn’t excuse the unnecessary and unproductive hate on this site.
MattF
@jamesjhare: Lot of people have wondered that. Answer seems to be ‘no’. Who am I to disagree?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@jamesjhare: He could, right now, loudly and publicly and specifically, call on the people disrupting the DNC committee meetings* to knock it off, tell Jeff Weaver to go back to his comic book store.
gwangung
@Mandalay:
I’m gonna say that if there was one thing that both Sanders and Clinton fans agreed upon on this blog, it’s this.
Which puzzles me why some Sanders fans want to club Clinton supporters with her…..
raven
@Trentrunner: Just? Did you “just” wake up?
Baud
@jamesjhare: Hillary has been FANTASTIC in dealing with everything. If there’s a silver lining to all this, it’s that my confidence in her has grown throughout this process.
Emma
@Keith G: Why? She takes no s_it from anyone. That’s what we need about right now.
Trentrunner
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: THIS is the point.
If Bernie wanted to put a stop to this right now, he could.
But he’s not a Democrat.
raven
Baud
@raven: Don’t know anything about her.
dmsilev
@scav: Switch to LIGO instead; it can measure deflections much smaller than the size of an atom. Which is about what you’d need.
Omnes Omnibus
@Keith G: Brazile is the Vice Chair of Voter Registration and Participation at the DNC right now. Link.
Major Major Major Major
@scav: you’re assuming they’re going to synchronize the clocks right this time.
jamesjhare
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yes, because that will stop every idiot who has ever been an idiot. I mean it worked out SOOO well when the Republicans started trying to tell unfriendly delegates to shut up.
dmsilev
@jamesjhare: We’re going to keep calling idiots idiots. Sorry if that gives you the vapors.
EZSmirkzz
@Mnemosyne: Six man squad or eleven from a 5A school? In any case you’re painting with too wide a brush.
If anyone really wants to read the anti-Bernie anti-Hilary left go to CounterPunch.
Mandalay
Heh. He’s way too classy to mention the times when she was sticking a knife in it.
Technocrat
@jamesjhare:
Come on now. Everyone’s “vitriol” is someone else’s “truth”. Objectively, some of the jailberners probably have fairly high IQs. You just strongly disagree with them, as do I.
ETA: Also, too, you picked a pretty bad day to be asking for calm. The day before the leaks, no one was talking about the berners.
Major Major Major Major
@jamesjhare:
Assumes facts not in evidence.
Chyron HR
@gwangung:
What? People who show up out of nowhere every couple weeks to harangue the ‘Democraps’ don’t have any idea what opinions people on this site actually have? That’s unpossible!
Joel
Beep beep! Bus coming through!
Emma
@raven: Oh, I like this. She’s supposed to be a tough cookie.
jamesjhare
@dmsilev: I’ve got no problem with calling idiots idiots. I’ve got a problem with non-stop hate to people who voted for a different candidate in a primary. Y’all have lost your way. The enemy is not fellow Democrats.
jamesjhare
@Major Major Major Major: I don’t comment much because apparently someone at my new job did something stupid and got our external IP permabanned. I’ve been coming here since before John decided he was a Democrat. Hell I remember when he was a rabid Republican. So please, tell me more about facts not in evidence.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@jamesjhare: I didn’t see it, but people here said Nina Turner was on TV this morning spewing the same old shit. Do you think Bernie has her cell number? Also, is Bernie Sanders, a man it sounds like you thought should be president, in any way responsible for his own actions and rhetoric?
gwangung
@jamesjhare: I think you’re addressing the wrong people.
sukabi
@Percysowner: My guess is professional disrupters, not actually Berbie supporters… same fucking thing every election. Shit stirrers only interested in causing trouble.
Keith G
@Omnes Omnibus: Sounds like a good place for her to stay…..away from the party chair.
Emma
@jamesjhare: this isn’t about people who voted for a different candidate. This is about people who, even after their candidate lost, continue to inflict damage on the party as a whole.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@Chyron HR: Never saw any of ’em in any of the threads last week concerning the RNC.
dmsilev
@jamesjhare: We’re not hating on people who voted for Sanders. We’re hating on people who, having voted for Sanders, are unable to bring themselves to come to terms with the fact that the other person won. It’s a small subset of the Sanders vote, but it’s demonstrably not zero.
scav
@dmsilev: I’ll have to try that. I was probably mislead by the rarity of the events, but thinking about the sheer masses of the egos involved, LIGO is a probably better option.
rikyrah
Iowa DE Faith Ekakitie stopped by police at gunpoint over mistaken identity
10:19 AM ET ESPN.com news services
Iowa defensive lineman Faith Ekakitie wrote that he “feared for my life” when stopped by police in a park Wednesday while playing the popular mobile game “Pokemon Go” in a case of mistaken identity.
Ekakitie wrote in a Facebook post that approximately five Iowa City police officers stopped him and four guns were pointed at him as police searched for a suspect who had robbed a nearby bank 10 minutes earlier.
“My pockets were checked, my backpack was opened up and searched carefully, and I was asked to lift up my shirt while they searched my waistband,” Ekakitie wrote. “Not once did they identify themselves to me as Iowa City Police officers, but with four gun barrels staring me in the face, I wouldn’t dare question the authority of the men and woman in front of me. This is what happened from my point of view.”
Ekakitie said he did not initially respond to police orders to stop because he was approached from behind and was wearing headphones.
jamesjhare
@Emma: So like the folks here spewing hate?
jamesjhare
@dmsilev: So nutpicking to make it OK for you to spew hate?
Baud
@jamesjhare: You’re obviously not here in good faith.
Major Major Major Major
@jamesjhare: I was just pointing out that you had, in fact, come by.
That sucks about the IP.
redshirt
@jamesjhare: Most Sanders supporters are great Democrats and will no doubt do anything they can to assure Donald Trump is not elected President.
Some Sanders supporters, however, are complete idiots and are actually antagonistic towards the Democratic candidate.
Which kind of Sanders supporter are you?
Omnes Omnibus
@jamesjhare: The anger isn’t at the vast majority of Sanders supporters who evaluated the candidates and came to the conclusion that Sanders was the better choice. It’s the ones who could not and still cannot accept that Sanders lost who are the issue.
jamesjhare
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I think Bernie lost his way toward the end and I wish he hadn’t held out so long. I figured he had until early June and then would let it go. I don’t think that makes him personally responsible for every idiot out there and I don’t think it makes it his responsibility to make people shut up. Generally that doesn’t work well. He did his part and endorsed Hillary.
Nearly every single post at this blog has some snarky aside about Bernie and the comments are a cauldron of hate. That’s not a service to the party. If beating Trump is the real goal let the score-settling go. Stop being sore winners and searching for reasons to continue a primary campaign that ended nearly 2 months ago.
Frankensteinbeck
@Mandalay:
And you know what? Props for that. I’m serious. Not a lot of people are willing to stick up for the facts, when the fact in question is against their overall position. Hate DWS if you will, heaven knows she’s not popular, but I appreciate you’re not hating her for something she didn’t do.
jamesjhare
@Major Major Major Major: Not nearly as often as I used to. This stopped being a friendly and welcoming community and became whatever THIS is.
Not worried about the IP. Wouldn’t want it to get unblocked because whatever idiot earned a ban surely deserved it.
Schlemazel Khan
@redshirt:
Not a Sanders supporter at all. Just another bomb thrower trying to cause pain
Major Major Major Major
@jamesjhare: only on the Bernie threads, in my estimation.
Keith G
@Emma: She was a serious part of the failed Al Gore campaign and eventually became it’s chair. Having the gift of gab is not the same thing as being a party (or campaign) leader during one of that party’s biggest fights.
She and Bob Shrum can keep earning dime on cable TV. I will sleep better.
ruemara
@jamesjhare: you’re no goddamn allies. You’re leeches who once you get what you want, whether it’s marijuana or punishments for banks, will walk the fuck off and abandon POC, women, pretty much everything not your issue. This is just vengeful scalp collecting from sore losers who couldn’t get it the fuck together to take a nomination from a woman who pissed off the dampened biggest base of the democratic party last time around. And then, you fucking shit on us for months. So sorry if I particularly don’t care to stop ranking on idiotic Berniecrats who can’t take the fact that they couldn’t organize their way out of a paper bag.
O. Felix Culpa
Interesting that you should read it that way. My experience and understanding are different: the frustration I’ve heard voiced here is not with people who voted for Bernie (a number of regular BJ folk and/or close family members voted for him), but that Bernie and some of his followers did not acknowledge voter outcomes and continued to attack Hillary (rather than Trump) long after the numbers were definitive. Some continue that anti-Hillary fight to this day.
One of my sons voted for Bernie in the primary and will vote for HRC in the general. People like that are not idiots. They exercised their best judgement and democratic principles in the primaries and are now acknowledging the reality of the candidate we have and the dire results if we don’t elect her.
Those who continue to assert that Bernie wuz robbed and should be the candidate, well, YMMV. We need unity and we need to win.
ETA: Emma said it much more succinctly in #98.
jamesjhare
@redshirt: I have voted for and volunteered for every Democratic presidential candidate since I was old enough to vote. I volunteered for Bill Clinton before I could vote. I doubt much is going to change that. I don’t know that I’ll be volunteering this year but that has a great deal more to do with having an 18 month old than who the candidate is.
LanceThruster
I think most of us Berners have our teeth bared for Ms. Big Dawg.
jamesjhare
@ruemara: I did none of those things — and this is EXACTLY what I was talking about that others are asking for examples of. Hate for fellow Democrats without any reason.
Mark B
The Bernie or Bust people are really dedicated to making it all about them. Whatever it is.
Smiling Mortician
@jamesjhare: For a guy who keeps saying LET IT GO, you kinda seem to have a problem in that area.
CaseyL
Now the pinheaded Bernie Squad is re-re-re(infinity)-tweeting an excerpt of a Brazile email saying she’ll cuss out the Sanders campaign as proof she isn’t “neutral.”
They have the collective intelligence of toddlers on a sugar high, and the moral integrity of Donald Trump. And that’s the best case; that’s assuming they aren’t just ratfuckers.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@jamesjhare: you’re monitoring the wrong hallways.
ETA: Do you also hold that Trump is not responsible for the shit he stirs up with his rhetoric ?
Major Major Major Major
@O. Felix Culpa: I’m using “being outraged (outraged!) by the DNC emails” as a barometer for not taking a person’s opinions seriously moving forward, personally.
LanceThruster
One less flying monkey…
Baud
@CaseyL: The primary is over. Neutrality is irrelevant.
gwangung
@jamesjhare:
She gave reasons, which you discarded casually. That’s not very respectful.
I also note that you’re ignoring the multiple other posters who note that they’re focussing their attention.
Anya
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: To be fair to my fellow Batman fan, he said today when asked, that the DNC email leaks are not relevent and they don’t change anything. He stated that the Dems are focused on defeating Trump and will not be distracted by these leaks. I know he asked for DWS’s resignation but he was not bad.
jamesjhare
@O. Felix Culpa: Bernie wasn’t robbed but the party did a poor job of appearing neutral in the contest. That makes it especially hard for new voters to accept. I know some folks much younger than me who were participating in their first contested primary and it is hard to explain to them how things work. Explaining that Hillary cleared the field and most of the Bernie vote was a protest vote against Hillary doesn’t make sense to them. They see a party that seemingly took sides in what was supposed to be a fair contest. This most recent doc drop from Russia just cements that. I get called names by both sides because actually finding the middle ground means acknowledging that both sides did wrong here.
Baud
@jamesjhare: I hope you tried to educate them that the process was fair and that Bernie did well bit was defeated fairly.
sukabi
@CaseyL: why not take the high road and assume they are ratfuckers, and quit beating the dead horse?
jamesjhare
@gwangung:
. I have voted and volunteered for Democrats nearly my entire life.
Assumes a great deal about me based on no evidence.
Absolutely unnecessary and unwarranted hate. Not only that but I made it clear that beyond the primary contest there are good reasons for DWS to step down. She ran an unprofessional operation that put shit in email that should have been said in person and failed to secure their computer systems against external attack.
ruemara
@jamesjhare: you’re stepping up to defend those who did and still are doing the above. If you don’t want to be painted with a broad brush, don’t stand against the wall. As if everyone else hasn’t been feeling the hateBern released freely on those who had any doubts about Sanders. I could care less about your pedigree as a former Juicer. You popped up just now to to tell anyone who thinks Bernie needs to come for his people that they should just tolerate? Go pound sand.
jamesjhare
@Baud: “Fair” is hard to sell. I explained that the process had rules and that both candidates agreed to be bound by those rules. I also explained that Bernie’s endorsement of Hillary was not a betrayal of anything but him abiding by the rules of that contest.
burnspbesq
@jamesjhare:
Sorry, but the ostensible allies of which you speak have shown their true colors. We’ll focus on the important objective, but we neither forgive nor forget. The knives come out on 11/9, and the blood of Berniacs will be knee-deep in the streets by sundown.
jonas
@Mnemosyne: Well, if field goals were worth 6 points instead of stupid 3 points, they would have won. Instead the other team kept getting these “touchdowns” and “conversions” worth 7 points. Who gets to say what’s worth more points?? The system was rigged!!
Baud
@jamesjhare:
That sounds fair to me. As long as there’s no confusion as to who the legitimate winner of the primary is.
O. Felix Culpa
@jamesjhare: I’m sorry, but I have millennial children and they understand enough about democracy that the person with more votes wins. Bernie won some primaries and Hillary won some, and in the end Hlilary got a lot more votes. They (my children and their cohort) do not give a rat’s ass about a stupid email by a DNC functionary – which wasn’t even acted upon. If the young voters you describe really think and feel as you describe, then let them learn how things work in the real world. We all have to adjust to reality at some point.
P.S. Most of the dead-enders I’ve met are not youth, but aging white (male) lefties who want to relive the glory days of…Woodstock?
jamesjhare
@Smiling Mortician: I’m a bit surprised that the day before the convention the hate train here is still going. Hard to let that go.
I remember in 2008 when Hillary’s supporters were welcomed with open arms even after she did some truly nasty and divisive shit during the primary. I remember PUMAs and all that nonsense. Nowhere near as much vitriol was directed at those folks.
jamesjhare
@ruemara: I am doing nothing of the sort. You want to find enemies in your own tent. What does that say about you?
jamesjhare
@O. Felix Culpa: I don’t talk to many aging white lefties. I’m in my mid-30s. I’m talking about kids in their early 20s who are fairly good Democrats who haven’t participated in a contested primary in their lives.
Baud
@jamesjhare: I remember a great deal of vitriol at the PUMAs.
gwangung
@jamesjhare:
Actually, I think it’s clear you opened your mouth without figuring out what’s been happening before, which is rather disrepectful. Coming in on the tail end of the conversation and not bothering to assess the context is almost always risky.
different-church-lady
The more I think about this, the more I think the appropriate reaction is, “Way to make the world think you’re actually guilty of something, morons.”
Fucking pants-pissing, spineless… something somethings…
Mandalay
@gwangung:
Probably because it’s expedient, no matter how little sense it makes.
The reality is that DWS ditched Hillary Clinton for Obama in 2008 when she saw which way the wind was blowing. And then DWS, while head of the DNC, knifed Obama in the back when his policies on Cuba and Israel didn’t meet HER special snowflake requirements. Whatever DWS’s qualities may be, loyalty is not one of them.
So regardless of any public statements of support Clinton may be making for DWS, I can’t help wondering whether she isn’t secretly delighted at DWS’s demise and departure.
Mnemosyne
@jamesjhare:
I’m sorry, Bernie-or-Busters are at the committee meetings in Philly RIGHT NOW demanding that Bernie be the nominee instead and I’m the one who needs to let it go?
Take the beam out of your eye and realize where the vitriol is coming from.
jamesjhare
@Baud: Thankfully most of them live in NJ and DE so they’re not that consequential. They (by and large) think the contest was decided unfairly. Not that Bernie should have won but that the party threw up barriers to Bernie’s success that made it an unfair contest. No amount of explaining that even if that were true Bernie chose to compete in that unfair contest has changed many minds. With those folks I’m playing the lesser of two evils card instead of trying to explain why Hillary will make an excellent president and would have been my first choice if I didn’t have a real boner for Vermont.
LanceThruster
PUMA’s were quitters.
Major Major Major Major
@different-church-lady: I believe the word you’re looking for is “democrats”.
gwangung
@jamesjhare:
Dude. Clinton conceded and had the troop discipline to turn down the attacks. Not the case here.
You keep harping on this like this is a dead situation. That is not the case. When there’s action still ongoing and harm actively going on, then accusing people of being sore winners is uncalled for.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Really? that Flowbee guy and his Whitey Tape? Lady Lynn de Rothschild? Harriett Christian? Jane Hamsher (not a PUMA, but an Obama hater) a couple of dozen internet posters I could have named at the time? They were “welcomed with open arms” by whom? Here? I remember plenty of snark, or to use your term, “vitriol”. I myself quit reading/commenting at Eschaton because the Naderites and PUMAs did a mind meld and started snarking about Mr Hopey-Changey and bleating about veal pens and the underside of busses.
Anne Laurie
@jamesjhare:
Then you remember a different blog than this one, because I took months of shit about being a “PUMA”, even though I was an Edwards supporter.
To his credit, the Blogmaster paid enough attention (to that among other topics) that I ended up as the first Vagina-American front-pager here. But this is a coarse and partisan blog; pretending that 2008 turned into a lovefest the day HRC conceded just makes you a fool or a liar.
jamesjhare
@Mnemosyne: The folks selected as delegates aren’t exactly sane middle of the road types. Let them have their say. It is easier to let them scream themselves hoarse than to have the bad optics of shutting them up.
different-church-lady
@Major Major Major Major: Honest to god, this morning I was thinking, “Pants-wetting season is just about upon us.” I had no idea they were going to get into golden showers.
jamesjhare
@Anne Laurie: It certainly wasn’t going on the day before the convention in 2008. Maybe I’m putting on rose-colored glasses here but I really don’t remember John and the other front pagers going after Hillary supporters in nearly every post up to the day before the convention.
Mnemosyne
@EZSmirkzz:
I’m a Californian who had to listen to WEEKS of Berniebros howling about how the uncounted ballots were going to magically reveal that Bernie was the real winner in CA, not Hillary.
When the count was done, Bernie lost by over 340,000 votes.
I am completely out of patience with any and all further coddling.
ETA: Or, as this blogger put it, managing the feelings of the Berniebros is not actually my job.
different-church-lady
@Anne Laurie: What amazes me is just how few people are able to grasp the idea that what goes on in this blog and what goes on between the actual campaigns are two different things.
gwangung
@Mandalay: Interesting….and may explain why Clinton isn’t giving DWS full throated support, thus the resignation (hadn’t thought of that).
Baud
@jamesjhare:
Assuming you’re being honest, then good.
You know, sooner or later it’s going to someone or something that progressive like who will be unfairly demonized. I wonder if people will make the effort to try to convince young people that what they are being told is false.
Anya
@jamesjhare: That’s not an excuse. Guess what, I started participating in my first contest in when I was 17-years old. You know what happened during that period? Rev Wright, Ferraro and this lovely picture . Guess what there were a lot of young people in 2008 on both sides of the campaign. We got over the ugliness and worked together to defeat the GOP ticket.
Emma
@jamesjhare: oh stop it. That must bad faith must be damaging to your soul.
O. Felix Culpa
@jamesjhare:
Then this is a great learning experience for them. Losing happens. It hurts. The question of character is how you choose to respond to the inevitable defeats that happen along the way.
Now, off to my long-delayed Sunday nap. Cheers! and Zzzzzzz….
Anne Laurie
@different-church-lady:
But if that were true… it would mean the world doesn’t revolve around them!
Mnemosyne
@gwangung:
This. All of it.
jamesjhare
@Baud: I live in Virginia. Even if I didn’t think Hillary was an excellent choice I would have a responsibility to my daughters and my country to vote for her. As it is I have no qualms about her at all. I’m even impressed by Tim Kaine as her VP even though as a governor he was entirely forgettable. I wish I had the time to volunteer — I had to tell Bernie’s people many times I couldn’t volunteer (strangely enough his was the first campaign to reach out to me instead of the other way around). I wish I had money to give but daycare is really dang expensive (I loved Hillary’s op-ed about daycare — really got the issue out there perfectly). Mainly right now I’m trying to convince a bunch of people who have heard nothing but hate for Hillary for most of their lives that Hillary isn’t the devil.
The Thin Black Duke
@gwangung: As I posted earlier, Ralph Ellison knew what he was talking about.
Percysowner
@O. Felix Culpa: Believe me, I do know that most Bernie supporters are on board with Hillary. It’s just the squeeky wheel ones that are quite annoying.
Keith G
Philip Rucker Retweeted
Was that senior Dem a Berniebro?
Iowa Old Lady
@O. Felix Culpa: I’ve been voting Democratic since 1968. If there’s one thing I’ve learned, it’s how to lose and move on.
jamesjhare
@O. Felix Culpa: I voted for Bill Bradley in my first primary because I wasn’t paying attention and that was who my parents liked. I ended up volunteering for Gore and suffering through what was and still is the most painful “loss” I think I’ll ever experience as a voter.
dogwood
@jamesjhare:
You really don’t get context do you? Any frustration expressed today about Sanders dead enders is expressed because they seem to think a couple of emails released by the Russians and the forced resignation of DWS is reason to go back and relitigate the primaries. You’ve got at least one of them in an earlier thread claiming that Trump and his ties to Russian oligarchs, or anything Clinton is saying on the campaign trail is a distraction from discussing the real enemies of America – DWS and the DNC. No one has said a damn thing about Bernie voters in general. It’s that kind of nonsense that people don’t feel inclined to ignor.
Anya
@jamesjhare: Again, you are remembering incorrectly. The media was salivating for a divisive convention and plenty of PUMAs were making noise. No one was sure of anything until Senator Hillary Clinton motioned to nominate Barack Obama.
Major Major Major Major
@different-church-lady: right????
O. Felix Culpa
@Iowa Old Lady: Yup. I didn’t get to vote until 1976, but as mere slip of a child worked for HHH and McGovern (was one of three Young Democrats in my county). Those experiences – and others – taught me volumes about losing…and moving on.
And back to my nap…
CaseyL
@sukabi: Maybe when Sanders himself tells them to knock it the fuck off. He hasn’t done that. Why hasn’t he done that?
jamesjhare
@Emma: Keep it up, you’re really showing your dedication to party unity.
dogwood
@Mandalay:
I’m pretty sure DWS was with Hillary until the end of the primaries. She then pivoted and endorsed Obama. But that doesn’t fit your narrative, so it must not be true.
jamesjhare
@Anya: Oh so wait — there were Hillary supporters being idiots in 2008 even up to the convention? So you mean Bernie’s supporters aren’t uniquely evil? I thought that was the theme here. Hell if you want to nutpick hard enough there were Hillary supporters who were making noises in 2012 about not supporting Obama the second time around. With a large enough microscope you can make any fool into a mountain.
Mnemosyne
@jamesjhare:
Criticizing the actions of Bernie’s delegates at the Democratic National Convention is “nutpicking”?
These are the official public representatives of your candidate at the DNC. What, exactly, exempts them from criticism for their actions at the Democratic National Convention?
The Thin Black Duke
@Anya: Don’t you understand? white guys can never do anything wrong, even when they’re being hateful divisive bigoted misogynistic assholes.
jenn
@burnspbesq: Okay, now that’s just disturbing. Life and work have kind of pulled me away from here for awhile, so maybe this is some inside meme that I’ve missed … but, yeah, disturbing.
On the other hand, I am naively surprised by this brouhaha. Party flunky proposes ratfucking (maybe seriously, maybe not, I don’t know – lots of people grump via email), and gets quashed, resulting in no ratfucking actually occurring. Which is the result one WANTS to have occur.
Tom65
Let me see if I got this right: The DNC just got caught red-handed tipping the scales, and “Bernie Bros” are the problem?
different-church-lady
@burnspbesq: dafuk?
Baud
@Tom65: You got that wrong.
different-church-lady
@Tom65: Your misunderstanding of reality is the problem, presently.
Technocrat
@jamesjhare:
You are single-handedly trying to tell 5 or 6 grown people how they should feel, while not listening very well at all.
Shawn in ShowMe
@jamesjhare:
There weren’t as many front-pagers or as many commenters in 2008. But here’s a sample of what was on the front page the day before the 2008 Democratic convention:
https://web.archive.org/web/20080825052900/https://balloon-juice.com/?p=11125#comments
Jim, Foolish Literalist
You do not, in fact, have this right. But you did the right thing by asking.
Technocrat
@different-church-lady:
Right? Did someone light the Bernsignal?
Vhh
@jamesjhare: Actually, the PUMAs made a lot of noise and did vote for McCain.
Emma
@Tom65: No. They got caught discussing it and their boss, the woman who just lost her job, told them no. But far be it for a Berniebot to even read the damn things.
Emma
@different-church-lady: I heard The Rains of Castamere playing in the background.
Percysowner
Wow! Two new posters added to my Troll Blocker from this thread alone! Good job guys!
Baud
@different-church-lady: That’s tax lawyer speak for IRS audits.
different-church-lady
@Baud: I dunno, sound more like a divorce court to me.
jamesjhare
@Mnemosyne: He’s not my candidate anymore. I’m supporting the Democratic nominee.
The Thin Black Duke
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Were there PUMA-birther demonstrations is Denver the day before the convention? I don’t remember any. Were PUMAs disrupting committee meetings with delusional nonsense the day before the convention? I don’t remember, though it wouldn’t surprise me if they had.
jamesjhare
@Technocrat: Not how to feel — how to act. Act like adults and let this shit go.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
There is a light that never goes out.
Vhh
@jamesjhare: Actually, the PUMAs made a lot of noise and did vote for McCain.@dogwood: in 1917, the Russian moderates got so busy attacking each other that Lenin and the Bolsheviks–in fact originally a minority–were able to seize power. Similar things happened in Weimar Germany. Result: dictators, war, millions of deaths.
Mandalay
@dogwood:
You obviously don’t know the full story:
DWS was making plans while the ship was sinking. You may find DWS’s conduct beyond reproach, but I don’t think Hillary Clinton did.
Say what? You might want to check what actually happened before running your mouth.
different-church-lady
@jamesjhare:
Ya think you could up the effort a smidge there?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Worth repeating, especially in light of this precious bit of assholery.
Who the fuck are you again?
jamesjhare
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I’m sure there were plenty of idiots in Denver. I don’t remember well because I was busy following my buddy’s social media posts because he got a ticket to the convention. I really didn’t pay much attention to anything more than his posts and the speeches. Political conventions draw idiots like moths to a flame.
ThresherK
@different-church-lady: Yeah, I’m looking for someone to more than just fractionally clear the Lieberman Line.
(Joe Lieberman endorsed John McCain for 2008.)
Mnemosyne
@jamesjhare:
And yet you have no problem with Bernie’s delegates disrupting the committee meetings, trying to get Tim Kaine thrown off the ticket, and saying they’re going to hold their breath until they turn blue if Bernie doesn’t get the nomination.
Or, I suppose more to the point, you can’t understand why any of us here have a problem with that behavior.
hovercraft
@Mandalay:
She has hired (appointed) her as the chair of her 50 state strategy, today. So I think she was thrown under the bus as a sop to Bernie, and then pulled out and rushed to surgery.
jamesjhare
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Somebody who wanted this primary to be over months ago. Somebody who sees that the real enemy has orange skin, fake hair and supporters who scare me more than any Bernie Sanders supporter.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@jamesjhare: well, since you’re the self-appointed schoolmarm wagging a finger at the unruly, I’d say it’s up to you to prove that this time, it’s different.
Alternatively, you could just get the fuck over yourself, Miss Beadle.
The Thin Black Duke
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Someone you’ll never see again once Hillary wins the presidency.
jamesjhare
@Mnemosyne: I can’t control them and I think it’s best to let them scream themselves hoarse than pay too much attention to them.
Not trying to disengage but the toddler is upset. Gotta be a dad.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@The Thin Black Duke: do we have to wait that long?
all right, back to the yard.
different-church-lady
@Mnemosyne: And that’s what really really REALLY sucks about this development: every single tiny bump in the road, every small disruption, every cute procedural stunt is going to be played as DISARRAY!!!! CHICAGO 1968!!!!!!
hovercraft
@gwangung:
According to Chucky and co. the push came from the White house, maybe even Obama himself, which is why everything was rumor, statement from DWS, statement from Obama, statement from the Clinton campaign. This was completely coordinated by the White house once they saw the media blowing it up.
different-church-lady
@hovercraft: I know those people are a whole lot smarter than I am, but I sure as hell hope they know what they’re doing on this one.
Mnemosyne
@jamesjhare:
So, once again, women and people of color — a majority of whom voted for Hillary — have to stand by and watch a bunch of preening white dudes scream themselves hoarse like a bunch of oversized toddlers. And if we dare criticize them for acting like toddlers, we’re told that we’re the ones who are being divisive, not them.
Lovely.
Baud
@hovercraft: So I blame Obama?
redshirt
@Mnemosyne: Don’t forget about teh Fart-In!
different-church-lady
@Mnemosyne:
And in the end, probably for the best.
Technocrat
@jamesjhare:
You could apply the same logic to this blog. Should be simple.
trollhattan
So anyway, the ticket. As a snooty and provincial left-coaster I knew next to nothing about Kaine. Now that I have my crash course the guy really impresses. For the first time in memory we have a ticket of two firmly anti-guns-for-everyone candidates. I’m chuffed.
FlipYrWhig
Fuck Bernie Sanders, and fuck anyone who ever thought that the Bernie Sanders campaign was a “movement” rather than a bunch of foul, rabid, horrendous, people slithering together like a knot of snakes having sex. I feel genuine hate at this point. Anyone I know in real life who had kind things to say about Bernie Sanders is permanently diminished in my eyes. What a horrible influence on American politics this despicable specimen has turned out to be.
Cacti
@Mnemosyne:
Yep.
redshirt
@different-church-lady: It’s amazing. The RNC literally just had a dumpster fire for a convention and yet this insignificant matter will far outweigh all that R bullshit.
Your “Liberal Media” at work!
dogwood
@Mandalay:
I remember very well that DWS was a strong and vocal supporter of Clinton throughout. If she reached out to the Obama people when it was obvious that Clinton had no chance of winning then she obviously was a pragmatist. If you expected that she become a PUMA to prove her loyalty, then that’s on you. DWS isn’t any different than many politicians who are party loyalists. What I object to is holding her to standards that aren’t applied to others. Plenty of Clinton Super Delegates jumped ship much earlier. Patty Solis Doyle was fired from the Clinton campaign and was then called a traitor after the primaries were over and she took a job as part of either Michelle Obama’s or Joe Biden’s team. It seems to me there is a vitriol and double standard when it’s women involved it what is pretty mundane political behavior.
Mnemosyne
@jamesjhare:
So much snark I could put here. So much. Instead, I will say that you may want to re-read these two paragraphs and see where the disconnect I observed comes in.
different-church-lady
@redshirt: That’s going in. I still have hope it will be very different by the end of Thursday.
But son-of-a-@$%#$# if this ain’t like reading the injury report the day before the Super Bowl and seeing half your starting lineup on it.
ETA: I have no clue why FYWP turned that curse into an e-mail link.
ETA2: Oh, now I see it: the @ sign.
Cacti
@trollhattan:
I appreciate Hillary pushing Bernie to the left on guns and immigration reform.
Mandalay
@hovercraft:
My guess is that Clinton and President Obama discussed the issue, and agreed that she had to be gone before the convention started.
I can’t imagine that President Obama decided this without Clinton’s approval (and vice versa).
Technocrat
@redshirt:
Yr Librul Media…plus a significant dose of possibly state-sponsored ratfvcking.
OGLiberal
@Keith G: I think Donna has learned since 2000 but, yeah, new blood probably better. Pretty certain Clinton fully trusts Donna, which may or may not be a good thing.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Always(until January 20, 2017).
redshirt
@Technocrat: We should get used to it if Wikileaks is a Russian concern and Russia also wants Trump to win.
Also, Glenn Greenwald. And drones.
different-church-lady
@Mandalay: Why stop there? Let’s just say they gave the Russians the e-mail. FROM HILLARY’S SERVER!!!!
Anya
@Mandalay: I don’t buy this. DWS was the last group of HRC supporters to support Obama. She started supporting Obama once he clinched the nomination and not a moment sooner. I remember because she used to annoy me whenever she appeared on MSNBC. She used to be a very effective Hillary supporter.
different-church-lady
@redshirt: At any rate, we can stop pretending that WikiLeaks is a friend to actual progressives now.
different-church-lady
@Anya: But Politico is the gossip rag of record!
dogwood
@Cacti:
What’s really amusing about that is that does anyone really believe if Bernie were elected he would ever do squat about guns or immigration? Of course not. We have to hold Hillary’s feet to the fire on every issue. Same with Obama. But Bernie? Not so much. Tell me again how sexism and racism don’t inform people’s view of who can really be trusted.
Dog Dawg Damn
Wiki leaks (aka Putin) is now threatening to release more damaging emails from HRC.
This is like the Whitey tape, of course, but less preposterous. I knew Michelle didn’t day Whitey, but I don’t know Hillary hasn’t said / done anything on an email that could derail her presidential ambitions.
For those of you who were pro-coronation and balked at the idea that the DNC shouldn’t have cleared the field for her, I TOLD YOU SO.
President Biden is looking more and more popular.
Technocrat
@Dog Dawg Damn:
If it is Putin, he’s pro-Trump, not anti-Clinton. Ridiculous to assume that he wouldn’t have nuked Bernie too. No one runs a Presidential race unscathed. Even Obama almost went down a couple of times.
Gloat when she loses, not before.
Mnemosyne
@OGLiberal:
FWIW, Brazille is only supposed to fill out the rest of DWS’s term, which ends in January.
Glidwrith
@jamesjhare: Dude, Clinton gave Sanders multiple seats at the platform table, something no other primary winner has done before. She welcomed him with open arms long after he should have conceded. Most of his followers didn’t wait and supported Clinton, but we have a nasty hateful core of people that are consistently lying about DWS and what the DNC did. We know what happens when hatred and lies go unchallenged, therefore people who keep hating on her will be confronted with those lies.
Allowing someone to be sacrificed for the greater good does not promote anything great or good.
Anya
@different-church-lady: IKR. And apparently, DWS’s support for Israel is way more intense than, say Chuck Schumer’s. I don’t understand the double standard when it comes to DWS. Again, not my favorite Dem but the attacks against her make me uncomfortable.
Mnemosyne
@Dog Dawg Damn:
Bernie’s campaign manager has ties to Putin. I was inclined to scoff at such things prior to this email leak, but if you have your money behind two of three presidential candidates, you’re obviously going to do everything in your power to take down the one candidate who doesn’t owe you a favor.
Nut. Up.
Gravie
Yes, one of my Hillary-hating friends said he’s sure that DWS will “still be running Hillary’s campaign, just not as chair of the DNC.” Making lemons out of what ought to be lemonade for him.
Dog Dawg Damn
@Technocrat: of course he wouldn’t assist Sanders. He would certainly love to have him nominated as he’s a guaranteed loser.
My statement is more about lack of candidates not under federal investigation or otherwise guaranteed losers (Sanders).
hovercraft
Another Sanders delegate on my tv from theBernie Delegates Network (1250 delegates), is angry that DWS is not stepping down 6 months ago when BS started bitching about her, or better yet right this minute. The scalp is not enough, Tim Kaine is a corporatist democrat more so than Hillary, and when they polled their network they voted thumbs down for Kaine. So Hillary picking him is a deliberate snub. He doesn’t care that Bernie doesn’t like the pick bit says it was her choice, Solomon says that change comes from the bottom up and Hillary should listen to the 13 million if she wants party unity.
burnspbesq
@Baud:
Actually, it’s democrat-speak for a multiude of local meetings where the singing of “Kumbaya” will not be on the agenda until after the airing of grievances and the sorting of shit.
In a perfect world, with a solid Dem majority in the Senate, it would also involve the Dem caucus slamming the door in Bernie’s face.
Dog Dawg Damn
@Mnemosyne: exactly. All the more reason we needed a real primary with a real choice.
Baud
@hovercraft: Just saw that. Playing the swing states game.
Anya
@Dog Dawg Damn: Coronation? You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means. HRC ran in the Dem primary. She was challenged and she handily won. Also, too, should you be happy about Putin messing with our election?
Shawn in ShowMe
@Anya:
DWS made her own bed. When nobody likes you, nobody is going to defend you when the knives come out.
danielx
@Mnemosyne:
Yeah, pretty much. Just another day in the Democratic Party, the worst-organized circular firing squad ever,
hovercraft
@Dog Dawg Damn:
HRC’s server was NOT HACKED, they do not have her e-mails unless they obtained them when the hacked the State Department. They probably have more e-mails from the DNC, but those are not hers.
Technocrat
@Dog Dawg Damn:
O’Malley? Webb? Chafee? How many do you want?
The GOP had 17, and that turned out well.
WaterGirl
@Baud: Always a good default position.
Baud
@WaterGirl: I’ll miss it.
dogwood
@danielx:
And just wait until they start in on Donna Brazille.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
Man, my troll filter is getting a workout. Keeps having to lift a heavier and heavier load. Some recovery time would be nice.
I’m so tired of these fucking ratfuckers.
PsiFighter37
@Dog Dawg Damn: I highly doubt there is anything else. And if the Russians think that stoking Berniebros in October will do anything – they are wrong.
The fact that the media has been so incredibly lax about this primary campaign – the fact Trump actually became the nominee, and they are STILL treating him with kid gloves – means that there’s going to have to be extra effort to win this year.
Mandalay
@Anya:
There is no double standard. As members of Congress they are both fully entitled to support Israel as much as they want, and defy President Obama as much as they want.
And the head of the DNC is also fully entitled to defy President Obama – but they shouldn’t keep their job as head of the DNC. They should make way for someone who will be loyal to President Obama. You can’t have someone heading the DNC who is out of step with the president. That hurts President Obama, and it hurts the Democratic Party.
That is the primary reason that I loathe DWS. She put herself ahead of our President and the Democratic Party.
ETA: And it’s also a great reason to have someone leading the DNC who is not a member of Congress.
geg6
I’m rooting for Barney Frank myself. He has plenty of time on his hands.
Feebog
@FlipYrWhig:
Good grief. Talk about not being able to let it go. You are as bad or worse than the Berniebros. And before you reply, realize I’m the guy who thought Bernie should drop out after the March 15 wipeout. You want to hate someone, there is a large pumpkin with an orange ferret on his head out there who wants to destroy this country. And he has millions of people who are going to vote for him. Maybe we should do something about that.
PsiFighter37
@Mandalay: Frankly – it is Obama’s fault, and solely his fault, for not firing her a couple years ago. His abdication on the party politics front is his biggest failure as president.
Mnemosyne
@Dog Dawg Damn:
And that would have prevented Russian meddling … how, exactly?
Omnes Omnibus
@Dog Dawg Damn:
No one wanted a “coronation” And the DNC didn’t clear the field for her. If you have evidence to the contrary, post it.
MisterForkbeard
@Feebog: Yeah, I wouldn’t go anywhere near that far.
That said, the dipshit drama queens I knew from high school are unsurprisingly #BernieOrBusters, one of whom posted no less than 9 articles today about the evils of Hillary Clinton, DWS, and how she needed to un-pick Kaine and pick someone that they wanted instead. When told that Bernie was okay with the pick (“Not who he would have picked, but it’s Hillary’s choice), he said it didn’t matter and that Kaine needed to step down anyway.
So yeah. Not banning him, but “permanently diminished in my eyes” has definitely happened for some people.
hovercraft
@WaterGirl: @Baud:
I just got a paper cut, while looking for a recipe. Thanks Obama.
dogwood
@geg6:
Nobody really wants the job at the DNC or the RNC for that matter because those entities aren’t all that powerful and the oeople who take the chairmanship aren’t powerful either. You’re just asking for trouble because you will become the scapegoat for things over which you have no real control. The DNC can raise money, put on a convention, and make some difference around the edges. It doesn’t control local and state parties. They don’t have the money for all the things people around here demand of them.
hovercraft
@dogwood:
You don’t have to wait, it’s already started.
Mnemosyne
@Omnes Omnibus:
The DNC killed Joe Biden’s son with a brain tumor to clear the field for Hillary. Obvs.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@Feebog: At this point, it’s looking an awful lot like Bernie’s ego is enabling Trump. At best he’s been a useful idiot repeating RW talking points.
That’s the thing fueling a lot of my hatred for the dead-enders, whether they’re just too pure for us grubby practical types or they’re gamergaters/rabidpups in another skin. At some point, you have to get the bulldozer out and shove the roadblock out of the way. It’s time.
dogwood
@MisterForkbeard:
Those people don’t know Tim Kaine from Citizen Kane. They just repeat lies over and over like republicans always do.
Mandalay
@PsiFighter37:
Maybe so. I really don’t know how much effort a president could or should invest in developing the party while running the nation, but he surely could have dumped DWS at any time, and chose not to (for reasons that escape me).
ruemara
@jamesjhare: I didn’t find you; you just showed up to demonstrate who you were. It says a lot that I could be there for other groups, but once I said I needed a candidate that treated my concerns with respect, twits like you found your voice to tell me to be quiet. Now go make a giant puppet or sign a Move On petition.
dogwood
@hovercraft:
Of course. She’s a woman and a POC. DWS is a Jewish woman. But boy did all the lefties love Howard Dean the moderate governor of Vermont. And people don’t get to claim that Dean gets credit for the 2006 midterms but Rahm doesn’t when in fact George W can take most of the credit for that bloodbath himself.
Dog Dawg Damn
@Mnemosyne: you guys seem to forget one of the best things about Obama–he runs a tight ship.
You won’t prevent Russian digging, but you could steer them away from where the bodies are buried, no?
Betty Cracker
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Still waiting for you to post those links from the last thread. I’m starting to think you’re a punk-ass liar. Put up or shut up, fuck-nugget.
Dog Dawg Damn
@Omnes Omnibus: it’s prima facie. Look at the field. Look at the debate schedule. Look at the HRC flakey installed as DNC chair long after record midterm losses. The field was cleared.
Dog Dawg Damn
@Technocrat: all losers. I wanted Booker, Warren, Biden, Crist (for giggles).
Warren would have won, and we’d have the excitement on our side instead of playing rearguard over another unforced, sloppy Clinton scandal. Basta!
PsiFighter37
@Betty Cracker: Dude’s not going to…don’t ask rhetorical questions. :)
bmoak
@Shawn in ShowMe:
Did that apply to Van Jones and Shirley Sherrod as well as DWS?
Omnes Omnibus
@Dog Dawg Damn: Sorry. That doesn’t cut it. Did people might otherwise have run sit it out because HRC was running? Probably. But I would put that down to not wanting waste a year of their lives in what would probably be a losing battle. Had Beau Biden not died, Joe may have run, but, pace Mnemosyne, you can’t lay that at the DNC’s feet.
gwangung
@Dog Dawg Damn: SO, basically, you don’t know shit, then.
Brachiator
So which one of these muthafvcking dopes is gonna pull a Ted Cruz at the Democratic Convention?
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Mandalay: DWS went from supporting to Clinton to dumping Clinton to support Obama to kneecapping Obama and back to running Clinton’s campaign. All the while keeping her job at the head of the DNC. Now either there’s some Three Stooges level incompetence at the highest levels of the party, or DWS brought far more to the party than we know on the ground. We do know that the big job requirement was fundraising, I’m concerned how much this change will impact us there.
different-church-lady
@Brachiator: None of them are going to get anywhere near the podium.
dogwood
Wikileaks made the Obama administration it’s big target. Now they’ll go after Hillary. When they go after right wing mendacity I’ll take them seriously as exposers of corruption. So far they’re mostly purveyors of gossip designed to embarrass democrats. Didn’t we read some State Department emails earlier that were published to embarrass Clinton? The republicans sure are lucky that the RNC is unhackable or that their internal communications are above reproach.
Omnes Omnibus
@Dog Dawg Damn: What makes you think that Warren wants the damn job? I’ve seen no evidence of it.
Baud
@dogwood: Trump runs a tight ship.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Dog Dawg Damn: I love what Liz Warren brings to the party, but jesus fuck putting an econ professor in the running for the big chair? I fear she would have been even more out of her element than Bernie Sanders in a national campaign, and I have a hunch she knows that as well.
Dog Dawg Damn
@dogwood: this. Also, I was pissed at HRC for suggesting collusion between Snowden and Russia. I’m not scoffing anymore. Just look at the Olympics. The man is a cheater and a thug. I wouldn’t put it past him to stage a tenor attack on eve of election. He’s done it at least once already.
Matt McIrvin
@Mnemosyne: The Russians (and the Republicans) would have turned on Sanders the instant he got nominated. The sole and complete reason he was completely free of scandalous allegations during the primary period was that he wasn’t favored to win. The Republicans gained nothing by tearing him down, because keeping him in weakened the party favorite; Hillary Clinton gained nothing by tearing him down, because she was winning anyway and needed his support for the general election, and attacks would reflect badly on her. If that calculus changed, the jackals would come out.
HinTN
@sigaba: I treat email, every last fucking one of them, as if it could appear on the front page of the local fish wrapper. That’s being professional with technology. Clearly the DNC were not so aware of the possibility that their communications could be made public. I do this on a system that, should it be hacked, my piddling little piece of that catastrophe would be insignificant. That, too, is professionalism. These DNC staffers were unprofessional but that is not surprising. After all, they were dealing with someone who had, for his entire political life, abjured the party only to find it a convenient vehicle for his voice.
Omnes Omnibus
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-: Law professor.
Dog Dawg Damn
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-: perhaps. I guess we just have a shallow bench. Cue what someone said above re: Obama’s failure to build the party. But this is the natural cycle–in power parties weaken as they lose legislative seats. Out of power parties lose centralized authority. Kind of a perfect storm here with Herr Trump taking advantage of one while Democrats nominate a terrible candidate due to a weak bench, if not clearing of the bench.
HinTN
@Trentrunner: Horse hockey
Technocrat
@Dog Dawg Damn:
Whoa…when did it go from “a cleared field” to “not my fantasy field”? We had 5 people running, if not your 5.
Dog Dawg Damn
@Omnes Omnibus: law professor turned Senator. That could NEVER be a winning candidate. LOL
HinTN
@Keith G: ?
dogwood
@Baud:
Exactly. It’s embarrassing that people get conned by Russian controlled leaks, but that’s human nature I guess. As I said in another thread, naming enemies, demanding their heads and spewing hate got Trump the nomination. Scapegoating is problem solving for lazy, ignorant people.
Dog Dawg Damn
@Technocrat: it went like this
Me: the field was cleared
Him: not so! Who else could possibly run?
Me: names some CREDIBLE candidates.
Look, the ONLY two normal candidates were Clinton and O’Malley. No, I don’t count two former Republicans (one quasi current one) and a Socialist as credible candidates.
Tell me what year in the past had such a strange abysmally untalented field? Name one?
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@HinTN:
That’s some A-grade paranoia you’ve got going there, I have to say.
Davis X. Machina
@dogwood:
Here’s how it’s been explained to me…
The corruption of the Democrats is worse, because they pretend to be with the workers.
This aggravates the People’s false consciousness. So the Democrats have to be taken first — they’re a higher-priority target, because of their hypocrisy,
The Republicans don’t care – they’re up front about it they don’t even pretend to be with the workers.
No one expects anything from them. There’s no need for agitprop in that case… The People in their wisdom can see right through them.[1]
[1] May not be reflected in actual election results.
WaterGirl
@Baud: If I had been drinking something as I read your comment, you would owe me a keyboard.
Baud
@Davis X. Machina:
And the corruption of the workers is worse because they pretend to be for Democratic values.
And thus does the circular firing squad maintain Republican power.
HinTN
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-: Not paranoia, just a way to use a medium of communication. Don’t shout at people, don’t say stupid shit, don’t say something you wouldn’t want to defend in front of the public.
Baud
@WaterGirl: I wish I were drinking right now.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Dog Dawg Damn: Obama was con law, though, and also had experience at varying levels of government before running for President. Liz Warren’s spent her life fighting for economic issues and economic justice, bless her, but that’s all her life’s work. Being President also means you get the steering wheel on State, Defense, NSA, Interior, and Homeland Security as well. I trust Obama, I still trust Clinton, but I’m not entirely sold Warren would have had the same handle they have.
Matt McIrvin
@Dog Dawg Damn:
What, like Elizabeth Warren supposedly being a fake Indian? It’s a bunch of bullshit, I know, but it’s basically the same kind of bullshit as all these Clinton scandals. For a while in her race against Scott Brown it was actually hurting her, though Brown overreached by being totally racist about it, just like Trump when he brings it up every few days now.
Mnemosyne
@Dog Dawg Damn:
Booker — too young, plus his Wall Street ties make Hillary look like FDR
Warren — not enough time in office (unlike Obama, US Senator is her first elective office)
Biden — son died
Crist (for giggles) — and here’s where I have a problem with you assholes. Why do you prefer NON-PARTY MEMBERS to people who have been Democrats for decades? What is this weird convert preference that you have? Even Warren was a Republican until W was elected.
Technocrat
@Dog Dawg Damn:
You’re telling me 5 = 2 because Reasons. Really? If we have to argue about the concept of cardinality, I’m out.
Anya
@Mandalay:
100% agree with this.
hovercraft
@Matt McIrvin:
Well duh. Everyone knows they spent the entire primary trying to pull a Todd Aiken on him, calling him too liberal, and bitching about all the ways he was to the left of her. They’re not stupid, he would have been a much easier opponent than her. For all everyones bitching and moaning, the woman has been beaten relentlessly by the left the right and the media, and she’s still standing. They didn’t want to run against her if they could help it.
different-church-lady
@Technocrat: Two shalt thou not count, excepting that thou then proceed to three.
Baud
@Dog Dawg Damn:
FWIW, I would have preferred more candidates, but people chose not to run. I think it’s false to say the “field was cleared.” That suggests someone was doing something to clear the field other than what a normal candidate would do. I’ve seen no evidence of that.
Dog Dawg Damn
@Matt McIrvin: Pocahontas is a lot less damaging than the director of the FBI calling out candidate–whose run is premised on experience and stability–negligent and careless after a lengthy investigation of potential wrongdoing. Sorry. La la land of you think that doesn’t burn.
dogwood
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-:
I would have to hear Warren speak about many more issues than she addresses at present to support her for the presidency. Being an outspoken attack dog on a few issues is fine, but it isn’t part of the job description for a POTUS. I stopped being interested in Bernie because his interests and knowledge seemed much too narrow for a President. Fine for a Congressman or Senator, but POTUS requires broader interests, and a different skill set.
bargal20
@Chyron HR: Oh, accusing Sanders supporters of anti-semitism. That’s rich, fucktard.
Dog Dawg Damn
@Mnemosyne: I don’t prefer non party members. DNC shouldn’t have let Bernie run. That’s my hot take. If you are going to clear the field, then clear the damn field.
different-church-lady
@Dog Dawg Damn: So which was it then, Mr/Ms. Prima Facie?
Mnemosyne
@Dog Dawg Damn:
You know that Comey worked for Kenneth Starr on the Whitewater investigation, right?
Dog Dawg Damn
@Mnemosyne: he’s fairly well respected as a non partisan actor. Regardless, the bar is rather low. I was all for Obama because he avoided this stuff. Oh well, can’t look back I suppose but my god, this is going to be a long 3 months.
Mnemosyne
@Dog Dawg Damn:
Or perhaps the field was never cleared except in the imaginations of conspiracy theorists who hate Hillary Clinton.
Nah, easier to believe that they wanted to clear the field but failed to do it than to think that the field-clearing never actually happened.
hovercraft
@Mnemosyne:
It’s the same fetish as the repubs have with business people. Running the government takes a certain set of skills that can only be acquired by working in government. Much like an efficiency expert who looks at a problem on paper and then tries to apply it in real life only to discover that it doesn’t work, and fucked everything up because shit happens in the real world not on paper. Actually running shit is hard, and something like government requires constant adjustments, having outsiders come in to consult can be helpful, but the day to day needs to be handled by people who know what they are doing.
WaterGirl
@Baud: I have wine, rum, tequila, and RumChata. What’s your pleasure?
Baud
@Dog Dawg Damn: In 2008, there was a Democratic Congress, so Obama did not have to face manufactured scandals. In 2012, the scandal was Benghazi. It just didn’t work. No Democratic avoids this stuff. In 2004, it was swiftboaating. In 2000, it was Gore’s “lies” about inventing the Internet and a variety of other things. The flavor of the bullshit changes, but not it’s nutritional value.
Miss Bianca
@Dog Dawg Damn: Down, Dawg, Down. Just…down, and stay down.
If you can’t grok the fact that the FBI Director is a partisan, Republican, Clinton-hating hack who went way, way off-script – criminally so, arguably, in that he basically ignored DOJ protocols – who is making these claims, then you just might be a concern troll. A laurel, and hearty handshake, and a “fuck you!” for doing your part in propagating this BS.
Baud
@WaterGirl: Yes, please.
hovercraft
@Baud:
No one cleared anything, some maybe chose not to run, thinking that she was too strong.
Matt McIrvin
@Davis X. Machina: “The worse, the better”/”heighten the contradictions” has always been a self-destructive temptation for left activists. But I’m not sure that’s the whole explanation with Wikileaks; I never got the impression that Julian Assange was even a leftist, so much as a guy who just wants to embarrass Western governments by any means necessary, and seems to particularly have it in for Democrats in the US. He’s got that libertarian chaos-dude streak that tech bros often have… and, you know, he’s a rapist; I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s got a particular animus toward the woman candidate.
Shawn in ShowMe
@bmoak:
What does Fox and Limbaugh and targeting two black officials as The Real Racists have to do with internal machinations of the DNC?
WaterGirl
@Baud: Although no one overtly cleared the field, I believe that by waiting so long to announce, Hillary’s actions served to clear the field because people either didn’t want to run against her or didn’t want to get sideways with her. But the end result was the same as if the field had been cleared.
ThresherK
@Dog Dawg Damn: Calling out? Gee, if there was only some way he could have indicted her with the evidence at hand.
When even a Starr-wannabe has to bluster and bullshit his way in a break-all-the-rules press conference, to end with the wimpiest Emily-Litella “Nevermind” non-indictment, that should tell any Dem something.
WaterGirl
@Baud: hahaha. we’ll go in alphabetical order, then. i’ll be up ’til midnight.
Baud
@WaterGirl: The result is the same. But “clearing the field” suggests some deliberate act to me above and beyond the type of actions you would expect a serious candidate to take to compete for the nomination. It’s a way to insinuate some underhanded or inappropriate activity, which is an accusation that’s been thrown around too loosely these days.
dogwood
@Baud:
Clinton was viewed as the clear favorite for the nomination in ’08 and that didn’t stop stop several other decent candidates from running. It’s just more excuse making. I can’t be the only person around here that doesn’t spend time dreaming about candidates I want to run for my entertainment or who I can get excited about. I decide among those who show up. If they don’t excite me or inspire me, that’s my problem not theirs. And no matter who the nominee is, I’m always a bit excited and inspired when I actually vote on Election Day.
Joel
@jamesjhare: Weighing in late to agree, at least with this post.
People need to move on from the Bernie bashing — it’s been over for a while now.
MisterForkbeard
@Mnemosyne: This is how I always saw it: Hillary was the presumed 2016 candidate from the moment she became Secretary of State. She was and is a very strong candidate, especially for the primary: Had the support of the current president, had a huge number of supporters from her 2008 run, had a large warchest and had a lot of institutional goodwill from her years of working with the party.
This isn’t a nefarious “DNC clearing the field for Hillary”, it’s that a lot of otherwise good candidates decided they *didn’t have a chance of winning* and didn’t enter the race.
Baud
@dogwood: I agree. Clinton surprised no one being the front runner. Eight years is long enough for anyone to prepare to take her on. The fact that Obama successfully did it should have given them even more confidence.
Matt McIrvin
@Baud:
Reverend Wright, and, further out on the fringe, birtherism and the whitey tape (pro-Hillary PUMAs were involved with both of those).
Mandalay
@Baud:
Back then there was no need to manufacture scandals because there were real scandals. Surely you have not forgotten the “57 state” scandal?…..
Eight years later I swear I still regularly see those words being proffered by posters as clear evidence that our president is unfit for high office, no matter what the topic.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I’m a big fan of Elizabeth Warren, but I find the idea that the Sanders phenomenon proves she could have won unpersuasive. Just in terms of the primary, I don’t think she would have brought the woo-woo like Sanders, the Uncle Dumbledore/Doc Brown thing, and I definitely don’t think she would have been making pie-in-the-sky promises. In a general…. I think the whole one-term Senator thing, no foreign policy experience, following a two term Democrat, all that would have played against her. The Trump thing is a wildcard, but even now my fatih in American people is shaky when it comes to the whole strong man thing.
Cory Booker… pfffft
Sherrod Brown, I like him a lot but I have no idea if he would catch fire. I’m still baffled at how O’Malley fizzled out.
I think Claire McCaskill would be a very strong candidate, and I say that as someone who doesn’t like her that much and probably wouldn’t vote for her in a primary.
Baud
@Matt McIrvin:
@Mandalay:
Yes, of course. Why’d we ever elect that guy? Sounds like a dud.
hovercraft
@WaterGirl:
I’ll take a Long Island Ice Tea, hold the tea.
Did the bat signal go up for Bernistas to descend on the internet? They must have emptied out every nook and cranny of their headquarters for this. Now is it because of the convention or is it this latest mishigas.
different-church-lady
Isn’t it rather preposterous that the party would clear the field of everyone except for this one guy who wasn’t even a member of the party until the very moment he needed to be in order to be on primary ballots?
Baud
@different-church-lady: I think the theory is that they got tired from field clearing and took a nap, and then a bunch of people snuck in. How else do you explain Chafee?
ThresherK
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: “The Trump thing is a wildcard, but even now my faith in American people is shaky when it comes to the whole strong man thing.”
Say whatever you will about Trump, his entering the race killed Vladimir Putin’s chance of getting the R-nom with write-in votes.
Yet my Bernster acquaintances are still posting bullshit about “This nomination is not settled! Bernie can still do this!”
different-church-lady
@Matt McIrvin: William Ayers!!!
Thank you! I thought my mood today seemed familiar — it’s the same fretfulness I got when I first heard the ominous “IS OBAMA FRIENDS WITH A BOMBER?” crap.
different-church-lady
@Baud: They went in for lunch, came back out, and there was Sanders standing in the middle of the thing. And they just went, “Well, fuck it, I guess we’ll have to plow around him…”
Plantsmantx
@Amaranthine RBG:
He ran against the DNC as much as he ran against Hillary Clinton. The DNC recognizing that fact and not liking it doesn’t constitute “rigging the system”.
Bernie Sanders lost the primaries because he couldn’t win over the black electorate. If you want to blame someone for his losing, blame us.
dogwood
@different-church-lady:
I really have a certain amount of sympathy for anyone in high public office. People think they own them or have a right to scrutinize every acquaintance they’ve ever had, any stupid thing they might have said or done when they were young etc. I remember crazy Tom Coburn getting in trouble with his constituents because he and his wife were friends of the Obamas and he hugged Obama at his first address to a joint session of Congress. He wrote an oped that appeared in all the major OK papers basically saying that voters had a right to hold him accountable for his policy positions and the votes he takes, but they didn’t have a right to pick his friends. I had to admire him for that.
Mnemosyne
@MisterForkbeard:
Here in California, several of our rising star Democratic politicians tacitly decided among themselves which of them was going to run for which office so they wouldn’t waste a ton of time and resources running against each other, which is why Kamala Harris is running for US Senate this year and Gavin Newsom will be running for governor in a few years.
Unfair clearing of the field, or realistic assessment of available resources?
Rarely Posts
Obviously, I’m voting for Clinton in the general and supporting her. But it’s insane that so many Clinton supporters seem dedicated to blaming Sanders and his supporters for every misstep by everyone else in the Democratic party. Sometimes, things aren’t Sanders’ fault. And every time you spend your time attacking Sanders’ supporters and Sanders instead of fighting for Clinton or attacking Trump, it becomes pretty clear that you don’t put much weight on actually winning the general election. Some of us would rather win the general election.
Second, does anyone think that DWS actually has done a good job at the DNC? The 2014 midterms were a disaster. And she’s done a poor job running the primary in a number of ways. The DNC failed to come across as credibly neutral during the primary, and DWS and her staff made a number of mistakes and hurt the DNC’s reputation. And no matter what Sanders did, when these types of emails were released, the press was going to make a big deal about them. That’s not Sanders’ fault; it’s the DNC staff’s fault. So, I’m glad DWS is resigning.
Third, Sanders has begun supporting Clinton and arguing forcefully that people should support her. It’s more than 100 days before the election, and he will probably continue to support her for the remaining months. If Clinton loses the general, it’s not going to be Sanders’ fault. If Clinton can’t survive a relatively substantive and clean (by historical standards) primary challenge from the left, that’s a testament to the problems with her candidacy. Now, personally I’m hoping she wins. And it’s super-annoying that so many Clinton supporters seem more dedicated to trying to pin any problems on Sanders and/or the Left than trying to: (1) win the general and/or (2) identify the real source of the problems. Particularly since the last thing we want to do is alienate possible democratic voters.
Matt McIrvin
@different-church-lady: Oh, God, yes, Bill Ayers. Remember when people started saying he had ghostwritten “Dreams From My Father”?
PaulWartenberg2016
…
can we please make sure Trump doesn’t win the election in November? Please?
WaterGirl
@hovercraft: Yes to the bat signal. As to your second question, I believe the point is Bernie! and it doesn’t really matter what the (manufactured) issue is.
Dog Dawg Damn
@Major Major Major Major: @hovercraft: #BernorBust is 9 parts counter Intel trolling and 1 part Liveral enclave foot stomping.
Very few Busted Berners in “Real America”.
Mnemosyne
@Joel:
If you haven’t been following Dave Weigel’s Twitter feed from the DNC, Bernie-or-Busters are getting bashed here for their obstructionist actions there. This is a reaction to current events, not a digging up of old grievances.
redshirt
@Matt McIrvin: Them Chickens Coming Home To Roost.
WaterGirl
@Baud:
There’s always one guy who doesn’t have a chance who gets to play the ‘extra’ in the fight for the nomination. The director screwed up this year and nearly everybody got their roles wrong.
Applejinx
@FlipYrWhig:
I am utterly, inexpressively surprised. Pray, say it isn’t so.
XD
Far as I’m concerned, DWS out = yay, Kaine out? Fuck no, I’m genuinely impressed by him and how good a choice he is. Hillary Clinton is way better and smarter than her ‘bros’ and the more I see her working with Bernie and others and coalition-building, the more genuinely enthusiastic I am for our prospects over the next four years. Everything looks to be shaping up for a term in which Warren and Sanders are useful firebrands loudly demanding stuff that Clinton is quite happy to approve of anyway. They’ll make a good team, and some of the reforms are absolutely necessary.
People who still think Bernie has harmed the party can suck my pony dick. At this point Clinton-supporting Bernie-ites are twice as silent as Clintonites ever were, because you get hysterical abuse from BOTH sides’ lunatic fringes. But we still trust our Bernster and we are smart enough to know he’s doing the right thing by joining forces. Bernie is disgusted with everyone who stopped trusting him the instant he sided with Clinton (whom he repeatedly said was 1000 times better than any Republican, never mind the Trumpster fire).
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Do you really think comments on this, or any, blog effect the election? This is a blog. People are snarking and blowing off steam.
Sanders and his followers aren’t/weren’t being assholes because people on this blog noticed it after the fact. People here notice they are/were being assholes, because they were being assholes.
I don’t know. She prettily handily beat a candidate she had to fight with one hand tied behind her back and the other in a sling, and who wasn’t held to any kind of standard by the press, and who ran a relentlessly negative and substance-free campaign against her.
Mnemosyne
@Rarely Posts:
Again, take a look at Dave Weigel’s reporting from today’s DNC delegate meetings. We are reacting to CURRENT EVENTS, not events of several months ago.
I will stop complaining about the Bernie-or-Busters disrupting the business of the DNC when they stop doing it.
And you don’t have to love or even like DWS in order to be a little perturbed that Russian-backed hackers ran her out of her DNC position right before the convention starts. That’s more than a little disturbing to me.
redshirt
@Applejinx: Are you a Bronie?
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@Mnemosyne: Especially since the hack was known about months ago, but the release was before the convention.
Applejinx
@redshirt: Damn right. And a Clinton voter. And I’ll have you know Twilight Sparkle AND Princess Celestia came out against plagiarism and the blaming of things on innocent unicorns. :D
(more seriously: Bernie’s run documented a LARGE, relatively naive and above all young constituency. It is fine to demand they vote Clinton because she beat Bernie just as the DNC always required and expected, and kudos to them for not crying ‘atheist!’, and yes we must all unite against Trump. I get that. But when Hiltrolls here start going on pompously about how there never was a Bernie movement, they never believed in anything because everyone only wanted to run their fingers through Bernie’s mad-scientist hair, and there was never a platform besides being secretly racist, it even pisses me off and I’m rather used to that. FOR FUCKS SAKE people, are you secretly Russian hackers trying to stampede Bernie supporters for the exits? We kind of have to do better than that, and not telling stupid and obstinate lies about Bernie Sanders EVEN NOW might be practically helpful, the kind of coalition-building Hillary is obviously busting her butt to do. Shame on you for balking her efforts, and shame on some of the B-Bro fringe for balking and rejecting Bernie’s efforts… that is, unless they are literally Russian agents or in their pay.)
different-church-lady
@Rarely Posts: I agree the Sanders bashing gets out of hand. But bashing the gleeful trash-talkers who are getting joy from today? Fuck ’em.
Just wish people would remember the distinction between the two.
Mandalay
@different-church-lady:
I agree. It is nothing less than a national tragedy that the Democratic Party had the temerity to completely ignore the collective wisdom of the BJ elders, and fire DWS.
I will be wearing my zip at half mast tomorrow as a sign of respect.
#istandwithdebbie
redshirt
@Applejinx: A Bronie and proud of it!
You do realize that media is aimed at girls ages 4-12, right?
dogwood
@Applejinx:
“Bernie is disgusted. . . ”
You are a very earnest commenter here, and I respect that. What I don’t get is your insistence on portraying yourself as some deep insider when it comes to Sanders. I understand that you want to believe Bernie is “disgusted” , but I doubt you have any inside knowledge. Bernie never had trouble registering his disgust for Clinton, Obama, the Democratic Party, Wall Street etc. What he refused to do was register any disgust at the small minority of his supporters who were actually pretty disgusting. So we end up with a disproportionate number of these people as delegates to the DNC speaking as if they represent millions. Clinton , Obama and the other delegates and officials at the convention will have to work hard to minimize the pr damage these people will create, but there’s no evidence that Sanders is gonna pick up a shovel and do any hard work. He put Cornell West on the platform committee and now West is supporting Jill Stein. I’d say Bernie isn’t a very good judge of character. He doesn’t seem to have a clue about actually leading people and taking responsibility.
different-church-lady
@dogwood:
Applejinx is from Vermont. How much more Bernie insider can you get?
Omnes Omnibus
@Mandalay: You know that HRC just hired her, right?
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Amaranthine RBG:
Tell me, what part of “Sanders isn’t a Democrat” don’t you understand, Mr Passive Aggressive? Who would have thunk the Democratic party tripped up a non-Democrat trying to hijack their party. I mean Bernie “I need no stinking party” Sander elbowing his way in was so fair, wasn’t it?
Is this so hard to understand in the adult world other adults don’t think it cute or precious when people outside their group try to impose themselves as “leaders”?
Mandalay
Julian Assange, editor in chief of WikiLeaks, is hellbent on preventing a Clinton presidency, and hates her with the heat of a thousand suns. This is very public information, yet there is just one post in this thread that even mentions Assange.
Instead, folks here have been having a meltdown over alleged Russian sabotage on pretty flimsy evidence.
Well Assange today promised to release further Clinton emails relating to changing security classifications and Benghazi. Ruh roh.
I wonder why Assange just slips under the BJ radar? We know Assange hates Clinton, and we know he doesn’t want her to become president, and we know he’s responsible for leaking the emails, so….BJ posters insist it’s all Putin’s fault!!!
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Rarely Posts:
Yes, it’s amazing how so many of these posters who have self described themselves as Democratic Party workers are scandalized out some outsider tried to force his way into the group they spent years doing unpaid work only to be told that they are wrong, evil by the for said outsider whose own record barely stands the purity test him and his followers demand of others.
The fact is, at the end of this day it’s the Bernbros who are out in the cold because they had to throw hissy fits and not work as a group with fellow travelers. Something to reflect upon perhaps?
dogwood
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
I’m pretty convinced that Bernie isn’t a very clever politician. He did use the party he didn’t respect to facilitate his campaign, but didn’t understand that trashing them on the campaign trail might not be in his long-term best interest. He also was made a fool of by West who used Bernie to get on the platform committee and then moved on to Jill Stein as soon as it was in his best interest. Since Sanders had no real allies in Congress, I’d shudder to think what kind of grifters would have whispered the magic words “neo-liberal corporate whore” into his ear to get a job. West would have been one of them.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Mandalay:
You mean the same freedom fighter who won’t touch anything for Russia? Odd that.
Mandalay
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
That argument rubs both ways though. If Sanders wasn’t a Democrat then surely the Democratic Party was under no obligation to even allow him to run as a Democratic candidate in the first place, right? (Serious question – I don’t know the answer.)
But once they did allow him to run as a Democrat, surely they forfeit any right to to “trip him up” because he isn’t a “real” Democrat? You can’t have it both ways.
dogwood
@Mandalay:
You and former commenter BiP have a lot in common.
WarMunchkin
God, this convention is going to be a shitshow measurable on the Richter scale.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@dogwood:
This, in fact this is the very thing that my Republican father is horrified about Trump. If one of these “independents” gets into office, they are going to need support to do any policy so were are they going to get it, beyond the con men and crazy?
dogwood
@WarMunchkin:
It might be that indeed. Can we expect that the Sanders rebellion which is now set on derailing Tim Kaine will be over after day 2, or do I have to wait until the final day to be done with these people. I was actually looking forward to watching this convention, but I guess I’ll just watch the speakers I’m interested in after the fact.
Mandalay
@dogwood: I just find it bizarre that some posters are so certain that Putin is behind the hacking with no evidence beyond citing press speculation, yet they completely ignore what is known: Assange is out to get Clinton (because vice versa), and Assange, not Russia, is directly responsible for the emails being published by WikiLeaks.
There are a gazillion hackers out there all over the world sympathetic to WikiLeaks and Assange’s situation, yet some folks here automatically know that Putin has to be responsible for the hacking, and Assange doesn’t even merit a footnote. It doesn’t seem to occur to any of them that Assange is responsible for the timing of the leak.
dogwood
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Yep. It’s pretty amusing to hear Bernie Sanders say Tim Kaine would not have been his choice for Veep as if Tim Kaine would have been interested in the first place.
Ella in New Mexico
@FlipYrWhig:
What THE FUCK is WRONG with you? Are you a Republican, for whom winning is the only object?
Or are you drunk?
Either way, shut the fucking fuck up, dumbass.
dogwood
@Mandalay:
Why do you want to argue about whose responsible, Assange or the Russians? You got what you wanted – the head of the DNC, who didn’t write the emails. The fact that you even think the head of the DNC or the DNC itself is all that powerful shows you haven’t been paying attention to what’s been happening to both parties on the national level for several decades. These “establishment”, “powerful” people that used to have a good deal of influence just don’t anymore. In the age of 24 hour news, niche media and Internet fundraising, the national parties aren’t that influential in choosing or promoting candidates anymore. So celebrate the downfall of DWS as if it is some big thing, but in the broad scope of what really matters she’s pretty insignificant.
FlipYrWhig
@Ella in New Mexico: You’re grotesque and I don’t care what you think of me. Fuck Bernie Sanders and anyone who thinks well of him. The ritual pissing on Tim Kaine was the last of it. You’re all disgusting to me.
Mandalay
@dogwood:
Your desperation is showing; I’m not arguing at all. I’m observing that in the DNC threads over the weekend. Sanders and Russia are the focus of the conversation, and poor old Julian is treated liked chopped liver when he is a more serious threat to a Clinton presidency than either Sanders or Russia (or even Trump IMO).
Cacti
@Ella in New Mexico:
Winning is the only object of an election you addled dumb shit.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mandalay: Assange and his outfit have been effectively pro=Russian for a while now.
Procopius
You really think Debbie Wasserman Schultz was good for the party? You probably think Steve Israel got a lot of people elected, too. Or that Chuck Schumer will be a good Senate Democratic leader.
Omnes Omnibus
@Procopius: Hey, lots of Jews….
Procopius
@Agrippa:
Which is why I’ve been thinking for years that DWS had to go. Has nothing to do with Bernie. Thank Dog Steve Israel left.
Omnes Omnibus
@Procopius: Jews again.
Irony Abounds
All I know is that an election that should be easily winnable by the Dems is now almost a 50-50 proposition. Given that the Republican is an odious, dangerous, Putin in waiting, that is not a particularly comforting . DWS was terrible as the DNC chair. The debate schedule was clearly designed to help Hillary yet all it did was dump the Dems on at times with lower viewership, thereby losing both HRC and Bernie with less free media. Just stupid. The emails, while not particularly consequential, were clearly an unforced error. And the Dems have a candidate that is loathed, and I do mean loathed, by a significant percentage of the population, and at a minimum disliked by a majority of the population. I swear, while the Republicans are evil, Democrats are just fucking dumber than a bag of rocks. Oh well, shoulder on, work like hell and keep Drumpf’s tiny fingers off the nuclear suitcase.