"You have to appreciate that he just has, you know, a unique communication style." It's been fun to see the little lies they tell themselves
— Martin Gelin (@M_Gelin) July 22, 2016
In case you were wondering if GOP insiders are still in a cranial rectal state. pic.twitter.com/Ua1nbxxPUX
— Bob Schooley (@Rschooley) July 22, 2016
Donald Trump, the Republican nominee, held a press conference today. And it was… something. https://t.co/14AQIadOtN
— Ashley Parker (@AshleyRParker) July 22, 2016
From the NYTimes article:
… After declaring that he had unified the party in one of the most “love-filled” conventions in political history, Mr. Trump launched an extended diatribe against Mr. Cruz, who pointedly declined to endorse him during his own convention speech on Wednesday and instead urged people to vote their conscience. The speech embarrassed Mr. Trump and cast a shadow of discord over the convention, which had already been marred by plagiarism in a speech by Mr. Trump’s wife, Melania, on Monday.
“I don’t want his endorsement,” Mr. Trump said angrily, in a rambling stream-of-consciousness performance that seemed half stand-up routine, half vengeful rant. “If he gives it, I won’t accept it.”
The remarks were a noteworthy display of lingering tension within the party and Mr. Trump’s inability to let go of grudges.
They also represented a seemingly inevitable reappearance of Mr. Trump’s irrepressible id. Having spoken from a teleprompter for more than an hour on Thursday, the final day of his convention, he seemed almost incapable of restraining himself any longer as the campaign moved into its next phase…
Mr. Trump briefly turned his focus from Mr. Cruz to Hillary Clinton, his Democratic opponent, who will be formally nominated next week at her party’s convention in Philadelphia. Attention is expected to shift to the Democrats in the coming days, but Mr. Trump said that he did not expect to watch Mrs. Clinton’s speech because she is “boring.”…
At one point, the Republican nominee quipped that, as president, he might form a “super PAC” to challenge a Senate re-election bid by Mr. Cruz, before questioning the ethics of such a move. And he kept up the personal attacks, saying that Mr. Cruz did not know how to properly use his intellect…Nonetheless, Mr. Trump said that the convention was a raging success and that the party was, in fact, coming together.
“That was unity,” Mr. Trump said from a downtown hotel here. “The party has just come together.”…
This is terrific. He's going to spend his post convention bump fretting about Ted Cruz. https://t.co/AS2N6ozvS0
— Bob Schooley (@Rschooley) July 22, 2016
Suddenly today I'm seeing a lot fewer complaints about "tone policing" & a lot more recognition that "screaming angry vulgar" is a bad tone.
— jtlevy (@jtlevy) July 22, 2016
https://t.co/oxOkQA7QHw pic.twitter.com/ToLFSPlwlm
— Matt Pearce (@mattdpearce) July 22, 2016
Trump to begin receiving intelligence briefings next month https://t.co/dmMo9FZRNl pic.twitter.com/QGrIXoYfW5
— The Hill (@thehill) July 23, 2016
Can we get Trump to play a nice long game of Civilization instead?
— Kelsey D. Atherton (@AthertonKD) July 22, 2016
amk
deadbeat donnie will never reach second childhood. he is still in his first.
redshirt
It’s literally hate versus togetherness this election.
freelancer
Cool. Cool, cool, cool.
Mike J
And he’s going to insist the only reason he lost was because he kept getting pwnd by barbs in the early phase. And Russia built the Great Library.
6 comes out this fall.
amk
worth a redux.
Ana Navarro @ananavarro
Hispanic Outreach: @HillaryClinton has Spanish-speaking do-gooder who was a missionary in Honduras; Trump has Joe Arpaio…and a taco bowl.
Technocrat
The subtext screams “this guy is nuts”, but they keep pretending he’s just another candidate.
I’m really glad he’s going to get intelligence briefings, by the way. Sleeping at night was a nuisance anyway.
jl
“Now I have guys like Mike Pence… Now if I don’t win, I’m gonna blame Mike, right?”
The chemistry between those two, it must be bubbling.
Is there Secret Service protocols for protecting candidates on the same ticket from each other?
Yeesh. I hope after the immense discipline and restraint Trump showed during that overflowing toilet of a convention (I mean, the only fun he got to do was talk about creative ways to spark a nuclear war crisis with Russia for the sake of a cool shake-down scheme to make a few bucks) that Trump unwinds by letting off some crazy for a few weeks. I hope Trump finds time to fume over those miserable heels and stupid losers Cruz and Kasich, and do passive-aggressive whining about that guy Pence, some party hack, whoever he is, during the Democratic Convention next week. That will be a good sign.
Major Major Major Major
@freelancer: nice gif.
patrick II
@freelancer:
Are they teaching him to be intelligent?
Felonius Monk
And Ivanka is now being sued for plagiarism of shoe designs. The whole family is dishonest.
Villago Delenda Est
ABC News tonight called the outburst about Cruz and Kasich “Trump’s Tirade”.
The pivot is not working. It’s more like a divot that the sorry son of a bitch refuses to replace.
amk
Ari Berman @AriBerman
Tim Kaine was fighting housing discrimination as a civil rights lawyer in VA while Trump was refusing to rent to African-Americans in NYC
6:09 AM – 23 Jul 2016
Anoniminous
32 million watched Trump’s speech last night up a couple of million from 2012. Monday polling numbers are going to be interesting.
Mnemosyne
I finally watched the Jon Stewart takeover of the Late Show and it was just as good as I was told.
jl
I wonder how many joint campaign appearances Trump and Pence will do? Must really steam Trump that he will have to share the stage with that stiff. A stiff whose main role, historically, is to wait in case he is needed to replace the President. The very idea is an outrage. No wonder Trump made late night calls to see if he could get out of naming a veep nominee a little longer. The very idea is an affront.
I guess Biden and Obama can do a little to drive Trump nuts by talking about whether Pence is up to the job of being president, and how reactionary he would be as President, if that happened in place of Trump, and as a raging reactionary can function in the modern Executive Branch with veep as kind of an assistant president that fits in a post-Enlightenment age.
Losers and pencil-necked geeks in the lousy GOP establishment will worry about trivial BS like whether that hurts their election chances. Trump will be steaming that the hack and stiff Pence will be discussed in the same sentences He is. Unexpected results will occur.
Didn’t I predict that Trump really had a ‘Apprentice: Vice-President!” reality show in mind for his admin? But the little minds around him told him he couldn’t do it because of ‘reasons’ and shit.
Peale
@jl: Yeah. Most VP’s have difficulty not being shut out of the oval office (see Al Gore in the later years or George Bush under Reagan) without much to do. I’m sure Andrew Johnson was wondering when Lincoln might call him in to do something that wasn’t attending a funeral. But Pence, if god forbid he is elected, is going to be the first VP who is going to be told that he’s responsible for everything that goes wrong. Just enough authority over “policy” to be fired but not enough to get any credit when things go well.
Mnemosyne
@Anoniminous:
Don’t jump off that ledge yet — McCain drew 39 million viewers.
Cacti
Just saw the video from last night where Trump pats Ivanka on the hip and she recoils from it.
Ick.
hovercraft
@Anoniminous:
But 9 million than watched McCain in 2008. He had 41million.
Sad.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
this is interesting, thought I don’t remember the context
@Mnemosyne: I had to turn it off when the studio audience felt the need to “Whoo!” hysterically every time Stewart exhaled. Maybe I’ll go back and watch it when I’m in a better mood.
Formerly disgruntled Clinton supporter
@Mnemosyne: Me too. Epic!
Mnemosyne
I am about to reveal how very middle-aged and unhip I am: I have only just now realized that Joe Biden is Barack Obama’s hype man.
I blame middle age and nerdiness.
Mnemosyne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
It’s worth it. He gets himself really wound up and rips Sean “Lumpy” Hannity a new one.
jl
@Peale: Doesn’t make much difference what O and B, and HRC and TK say. Whatever brings Pence any attention at all will be a provocation and source of narcissistic outrage and brooding.
Shit, just HRC paling around with TK and talking about all the great stuff he will do in her administration will be enough to get Trump steamed. The very idea of it, alwys lurking there, eating away at the innards of his brain.
Edit: and effing Pence will suck as Trump’s hype man. Another reason for Trump to get irritated with him.
amk
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: colbear too can do without the empty headed stephen, stephehn, stephen chants. it’s gotten beyond redenculous.
amk
@jl: good point. deadbeat doesn’t like to be ignored…or mocked…or compared….or questioned.
the pathetic msm has let him get his tantrum filled way for too long.
inventor
@Anoniminous: That’s surprisingly low considering it’s an open election with the opposition party having eight years in office. Enthusiasm wanes for the party in office and increases for the party out of office. Even in ’08, after eight years of Bush, McCain got 40 million or so.
To see the audience for, of all people, Trump, the TV star and self-promoter extraordinaire, at only 32 million after eight years of Obama is very surprising. Startling, even.
Anoniminous
@Mnemosyne: @hovercraft:
I am not panicked. The polls this far out from the election are almost meaningless except as an indication how the overall environment of the race is shaping. I think it is as probable Trump got a dip from his speech as a bounce.
amk
@inventor: yup. most likely many were turned off by the 24×7 ass kissing from msm. the punk was literally phoning it in to these courtiers. and the moron thinks there is no such thing as bad publicity.
Major Major Major Major
@inventor: there aren’t many republicans left. As a power, they pretty much only exist because of gerrymandering (the House) or an intentional oversampling of rural voters (the senate) or arcane BS (the filibuster). If you do something like what CA did and get rid of those, the GOP basically disappears nationally.
Cacti
Even skeevier than The Donald’s hands wandering down to the hips of his adult daughter on national TV was his eyes wandering down to her boobs at the same time.
Double Ick.
Mnemosyne
@Anoniminous:
It was funny to Google for the McCain numbers because there were two completely divergent sets of headlines for Trump’s numbers:
(A) Trump got higher numbers than Romney! He is invincible!
(B) Trump barely cleared Romney’s numbers! Trump is in trouble!
Obviously, I find (B) much more plausible and will be very interested to see what Hillary’s numbers are. Or, rather, how much bigger Hillary’s numbers are.
Anoniminous
@inventor:
I’d like to know the breakdown of the audience by political affiliation … impossible tho’. As you say, it is startling he didn’t bring in a larger audience. My guess is he lost a couple of million #NotTrump old-time GOP stalwarts.
IF so that it means Trump isn’t going to be able to staff local GOTV operations because he won’t have the volunteers.
Monday’s numbers could tell us.
Jordan Rules
@Mnemosyne: Ha! And he was a great one!
I think Kaine will be too.
jl
@Major Major Major Major: Trump is trying to repeat the Wilson experiment on a national scale. But with a larger planned intervention. Let’s see how it works. IIRC it worked in the short term well enough to get Wilson re-elected. So it is hazardous unethical experiment that shouldn’t have gotten past the human subjects review committee. But we are where we are.
Dog Dawg Damn
Not seeing any bounce yet. Quite convinced be bounce will be muted by turning off moderates. Kaine is a great pick–reassures the moderate chamber of commerce types and can fly under the radar with Latino outreach en espanol. Brilliant pick as it contrasts Trumps bloviating anger shtick with a jovial normal man. This is reassuring to suburban white women.
sukabi
@inventor: I think it’s the Palin Effect.
The more exposure a thing gets will determine the amount of horror you feel.
Barb2
Are the next few months going to be even crazier than what we’ve already seen?
As someone mention Trump is still in his first childhood. Yep that would explain a whole lot.
AGM – Attention Getting Mechanism – from family counseling 101. Trump will need more and more attention, he doesn’t care how he gets it. Continue to engage Ted Cruz? Who knows? It will be something. No one will be able to control him. Ask the parent of a 5 year old who throws temper tantrums when ever he feels left out.
Will Trump aka Putin’s Puppet return to twitter and play the attack first game?
Josh Marshall TPM is real concerned about Trump’s borrowing from Russian sources. I don’t ever remember any US Presidential candidate with such cozy ties to Russia. Almost 700 million $$$$ involved or maybe more. With four bankruptcies Trump has burned a lot of bridges. This is scary.
A few months ago tea party family members were on the soap box about Bernie being a communist. (Tea party types do not know the difference between socialists and communists. )
Jon Steward’s guest spot covers the above. If Obama does it – bad bad evil.
If Trump does it = good. So Sanders visits Russia = bad.
Trump visits Russia and gets million of $$$$$ in loans = good. According to conservative pundit called “lumpy”.
I am expecting Trump to do a massive AGM if the corporate media questions the Russian loans.
Who ever came up with the 5 year old behavior parallel to Trump’s over acting – hit the nail on the head. Trump functions at the emotional level of a 5 year old. His behavior shocks adults – because most of us grew up.
Mnemosyne
@Jordan Rules:
Once I Googled it, it turns out that it’s a longstanding meme that just flew over my head.
jl
Kaine debates Michael Steele on health care reform. He did very well, I think. And Steele is Newton and Einstein rolled into one compared to Pence.
Michael Steele, Tim Kaine Square Off On Health Reform Passage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqANnTduL-g
Anoniminous
@Mnemosyne:
Republicans have spent 20+ years attacking the SheDevilFromHell© and the last 8 attacking Obama. I would have thought they would be as rabid to take back “their” White House as we were in 2008 and the convention numbers would show that. But they don’t. They weren’t all that bad but IMO they weren’t in the territory Trump needs to change the political landscape.
jl
@Mnemosyne: Didn’t you know? Those Uncle Joe Onion stories were really true!
Jordan Rules
Keeping Drumpf’s focus on the contest he knows will require just that, is damn near impossible. His ignorant ass will not be able to ignore his new intra-party beef. He’s beat so many of them that he keeps going back to the well like an addict.
Watching Pence stand behind him like that was ridiculous. I’ve heard he is a moron so… I’m thinking his compromised position will leave him super ill equipped to debate Kaine.
Mnemosyne
Okay. I missed Luvvie’s take on W at the Dallas police funeral and now I am DED.
D.
E.
D.
Technocrat
@Mnemosyne:
I’m so glad you linked that. Tears on my face.
Barb2
@Anoniminous:
Polls now are interesting.
It’s the polls in October and the perfect time to peak – just before the one poll that counts in November. Hillary has been in the game long enough – she is playing the long game – and keeping the party faithful close.
Trump may peak too soon. He has no patience.
However the Sociology and PoliSci textbooks will be adding new chapters and perhaps new classes for 2017. Social scientists are dŕooling.
Brachiator
Trump is an ego driven, vindictive little git. The last thing you would ever want in a president. He’s a foreign and domestic policy disaster just waiting to happen. It’s beyond sad that his supporters refuse to look at this honestly, or twist it into confirmation that he will be a tough fighter in their behalf.
I wonder if the national security briefing he will be getting will make him sweat or make him realize that he is totally out of his depth?
Mnemosyne
@Technocrat:
I lost it at “SANTA! I KNOW HIM!”
Major Major Major Major
Just reposting my dumb/possessed cat from earlier.
Villago Delenda Est
@Barb2: The wingnuts, however, never got past that stage. Which explains his appeal to them. I’m seeing this in my wingnut sister who is a devoted Alex Jones fan and swears up and down Jones is right about everything.
I once told her she had dihydrogen oxide in her filtered water, and she flat denied it.
jl
@Brachiator: Probably think it is all rigged BS, put on by sad low-wattage soft losers, and he can see right through their incompetence. Someone with real genius for git-er-done meetings, really tough negotiations, like they have in real estate, great dealz and the best top people will get it cleaned up, starting on day one. The crap will stop. They won’t know what hit ’em. Child’s play. He can deal with that crap while at the same time getting down to real business, like getting those rat-fvckers like Cruz, who crossed him, were not nice to him at all.
Edit: and if it looks hopeless, put Pence on it and tell to keep a lid on the bollocks until after the next election, or he has hamburger run duty the rest of the year.
Villago Delenda Est
@Jordan Rules: He was called “Congressman Dense” when he was in the House.
Kwame
So why do we exactly have to have an all-white ticket? Are the loyal voters of color that keep the Democratic Party alive less valuable than white males in the rustbelt.
It speaks to the warped white psychie and white fragility that the idea of an all white ticket is accepted without thought by white America, while the idea of having even one POC on the ticket two elections in a row is “risky” or “unsafe”, or at the very least possible POC VPs are labeled as “under qualified”, which often serves as a racial codeword or dogwhistle.
Tokyokie
@Brachiator: For Donnie to realize that he is out of his depth would require a degree of self-awareness and capability that he simply does not possess. True incompetents don’t have the depth of understanding to appreciate that they are incompetent.
Major Major Major Major
@Kwame: they having a sale on straw men at your neighborhood farmers market tonight or something?
Kwame
@Major Major Major Major:
Not a strawman at all. White liberals talk of Tim Kaine as the “safe” choice. Whiteness is coded as “safe” while blackness is coded as “risky”. Doesn’t that tell us all something about the deep rooted racial anxieties and prejudices of white liberals?
Technocrat
That moment when you have to make sure you’re on RedState:
jl
@Kwame: Maybe you should take it up with Hillary Clinton, she chose him. We didn’t it. As far as I am concerned there were four or five excellent possible VP picks, men, women, white non-white. She could have done worse than Kaine, and from what I have seen, he is a good enough politician to get the ticket elected. So, we deal with the candidate we got, hope she gets elected and then we go from there. Then hope Kamala Harris has a very notable term in the Senate, or something. As a mere mortal, insignificant twit lesser person, that is how I have to approach things.
You think this almost top 10,000 blog is the Bildergerger/Illuminati central that plans all this stuff out, or what?
Brachiator
@Peale:
Trump would have to get a sign that reads, “The buck stops somewhere over there.”
It might be an interesting thought exercise to retool the government so that the president is chairman of the board and the VP is CEO, but aside from the constitutional issues, I can’t even see Trump’s most devoted supporters going along with this for very long.
Major Major Major Major
@Kwame: I hear ‘centrist establishment’, not ‘white.’ Not to discount that you hear something different.
It’s interesting that I don’t hear ‘straight’ when they say ‘safe’
jl
@Kwame: And who gives a shit who says Kaine is ‘safe’? That is stupid corporate media and savvy pundit crap. People say he is safe. I’m not even sure what that is supposed to mean. I sure has hell have not been running around, here or elsewhere, babbling about who is a safe or a daring pick. I don’t think I’ve ever used those words, because I think its a foolish way to think about it. Clinton was going to pick who she was going to pick and she picked. And we deal with it.
And who the hell knows exactly why Clinton chose him? Because he is ‘safe’. She knows him better than anyone here does.
Kwame
@Major Major Major Major:
How many times have we heard “safe, boring white guy”? Cory Booker is a centrist as well yet nobody called him “safe” or “boring” as a pick.
Whiteness once again is coded/equates to the default, the boring, the safe, while blackness codes/equates to dangerous and exotic in the psyche of white America, even the liberals in white America.
If you want to be a real ally to POC you and other white liberals need to think long and hard about this.
Kwame
And do you know how condescending it is to Latinx people to hear whites gush about how Kaine can speak Spanish? Millions of Latinxs speak Spanish every day. Should they dance and be happy for you because you sent them a white boy who can do it?
Mnemosyne
@Kwame:
Because this is the first ticket that’s not all male.
I realize you think that gender is completely unimportant that and a white woman running for president on a major party’s ticket for the first time in American history doesn’t count because you only see race, not gender. You really don’t seem to get that white women are, in fact, less powerful than white men. You just see a white face and assume that everyone with that skin color has equal power regardless of gender.
And the fact that you really don’t get that running a white woman and a woman of color together is the riskiest fucking bet of all fucking time thanks to the toxic combination of race and gender in this country is really kind of fascinating, honestly. Have you really missed all of the gender-based commentary about Michelle Obama? Did you fail to comprehend that she’s getting a double dose of shit piled on top of her because she’s both Black and a woman?
jl
@Kwame: You really think no white people have noted that BS? The media and the pundits stink of it. So, good night.
Edit: the bit about Kaine speaking Spanish was very bad trolling. You need some sleep. Get some rest, OK?
Mnemosyne
@Kwame:
Is the clue bell ringing yet?
Major Major Major Major
@Kwame: but by adding ‘white’ in ‘safe boring white guy’ you’ve already seen a decoupling of white and safe.
Booker wasn’t as safe a pick, to me, because he was a) single and b) from New Jersey.
Maybe people were referring to the ‘safeness’ as perceived by the idiots who haven’t made up their minds yet and not their own idea of ‘safe’.
PurpleGirl
@jl: I haven’t been able to find the quote but one time when John Adams was asked what the Vice President should be called, he answered “His superfluous Majesty”.
Kropadope
@Mnemosyne:
Do you honestly believe anyone who would even consider voting for the Democrats gives two shits about the racial or gendered content of the ticket?
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne: can I start making unrealistic demands for a gay VP or is it not our turn yet?
@Kropadope: yes. They probably don’t even know they do!
jl
I guess this person is asking us to think long and hard about bigoted and stupid junk people like Matthews and Todd babble on the TV machine? I dunno.
Anyway, a final good night.
Mnemosyne
@Major Major Major Major:
Now I remember Kwame. Kwame is the dude who thinks that white women have absolutely nothing to complain about because gender bias, misogyny, and sexism are all in our heads, and we need to shut up and make sandwiches while the men order the universe for us. And maybe, if they feel like it, the men will allow us to have gender equity once they get the important issues straightened out.
Technocrat
@Mnemosyne:
In the previous thread, “Kwame” wanted to have a POC-only conversation. I see it’s evolved on that issue.
Major Major Major Major
@jl: good thing this person is making their case at a blog notorious for coddling those people in the media then! great use of time.
Mnemosyne
@Kropadope:
Uh, have you been asleep for the past 8 years while white “liberals” constantly flung shit at the black president and pretended they could do his job better than he could? Did you miss this whole primary season where thousands of white Democrats desperately clung to the nearest white guy to save them from the horror of having to vote for a mere woman?
But, yeah, let’s pretend that calling Hillary a “whore” is totally meaningless because sexism magically ceased to exist the day she won the nomination, just like racism magically ceased to exist the day Obama won the nomination.
Barb2
@Mnemosyne:
Little girls get it. Their world will be different.
Bernie didn’t get it.
Kwame
@Mnemosyne:
What are you going on about exactly? I fully understand intwraectionality, systems of oppression, and the kyriarchy
Canadian Shield
@Kwame:
I think the Kaine pick is a great neutralizer to the Republican VP pick. They debate and he crushes the religious anti abortion and anti gay crap. Kaine is personally anti abortion but doesn’t want the state intruding onto liberty and/or religion. Sometimes the best pick strategically (Dem Governor picks his replacement as well) is the best fit. Not to mention the gray battlefield in this contest is basically the white guy electorate. It’s just business Sonny (Godfather reference)
Brachiator
@Tokyokie:
Being out of your depth is not quite the same thing as being incompetent. Trump is half way decent as a real estate mogul, and he has been able to bullshit people over his failures, just as he continues to bullshit people over his true net worth. In this, Trump knows exactly what he is doing. And he easily vanquished is GOP opposition in the primaries. I think this leads him to think that he can make the same tricks work for him as president, which is a different arena altogether.
Also, I have worked with a number of incompetent people. The most dangerous to the organization were those who knew they were fools, but had the smarts to pressure others into doing their jobs for them or who would find people to take the fall for them. The absolute worst pulled down their departments or sections, or moved on just before the shit hit the fan, leaving others to clean up their mess.
gwangung
@Kwame: Y’all know the lingo.
Not sure you understand it.
Fer damn sure you don’t know what’s patronizing to Latinx.
Groucho48
@Kwame:
Who would you choose?
Kwame
@Canadian Shield:
So that’s what yore worried about? Not diversity? Not representing the most loyal section of the Democratic Party
Remember: it was white America that brought us Trump. If only whites voted, Trump wins. If you’re white he is, in a sense, already your President. POC will save the country from Trump this year and you can’t find one to share the ticket with Hillary?
Mnemosyne
@Kwame:
Here, I will spell it out in small words:
No woman has ever been the presidential nominee of a major party.
Ever.
In all of US history.
That means that Hillary’s nomination
IS RISKY.
Therefore, her VP needs to be
SAFE.
NON THREATENING.
And.
MALE.
Was that too many syllables for you?
Kwame
@Groucho48:
Barbara Lee, Donna Edwards, or Julian Castro.
Mnemosyne
@Kwame:
So, just to be clear, Obama/Biden — a black man and a white man — was a diverse ticket, but Clinton/Kaine — a white woman and a white man — is not a diverse ticket.
Because there is no such thing in this world as gender bias, sexism, or misogyny, so there is no need for women to be represented, amirite? They can just be represented by men of the same race and you’ll get the exact same results.
Kropadope
@Mnemosyne:
Fixed for accuracy. Also, what does whiteness have to willingness to vote for a woman?
Canadian Shield
Kwame, there’s been a black president for 8 years. Thank goodness. That is not a guarantee that half the ticket has to be black every time. The Dems are now trying to roll a Woman (and Clinton) against a fascist who’s running a white power campaign. Picking an old white guy from a purple state seems strategic.
Major Major Major Major
@Kwame: so that’s a woman who would be more at home in a steel cage grudge match with Hillary than working with her; a man who is again a senator from NEW JERSEY; and Julian Castro.
Your list is just Julian Castro, who is frankly not that spectacular when compared to some of the white dudes.
Mnemosyne
@Kropadope:
And I really don’t have time to teach an Intersectionality 101 course for you so you can understand how race and gender interact in our society. Perhaps you can Google it.
Kwame
@Major Major Major Major:
Wow, why don’t you just come out and say she’s an “uppity n****er”? Steel cage match? Really? Way to promote the myth of the “angry black woman”
Whiteness rears its head again.
Peale
@Canadian Shield: he’s 58 for Christ sake. Are we all 21 and anyone over forty is considered old?
Kropadope
@Mnemosyne: You accuse me of ignoring the existence of racism and misogyny. The real issue is that you misunderstand my argument, which is simply that bigotry of that sort is not the prevailing mindset of likely Democratic voters.
In fact, you’ve accused me of a lot of things that just plain weren’t true. My favorite was the time you accused me of unwillingness to work for political candidates, at which time I told you about some of my experiences volunteering for political campaigns. You’re response? “And you’ve never volunteered since?”
You just make shit up, whatever will make you feel superior. Congratulations on being our resident Trump clone.
PurpleGirl
@Kwame:
intwraectionality,
Do you mean ‘intersectionality’ ?
I’m not familiar with kyriarchy. Can you explain it in context here?
Kwame
@PurpleGirl:
Yes it was a typo.
Groucho48
I like Barbara Lee. I’m afraid I’m not familiar with Donna Edwards. I think Castro was a finalist, I would have been happy with him, but, I think he needs a bit more seasoning. Grooming him for 2024 would be a good thing.
Do you think any of them would give us a better chance at winning? I’m not being snarky. Winning is what it is all about. Especially when the opponent is Trump.
Lee is from California and is very liberal. Would she help in the purple states? Because that’s what the VP choice is mainly about.
Have either Lee or Edwards expressed any interest in being VP?
I would love to see Lee, Castro, and, from a quick google, Edwards get prominent positions in a Clinton Administration
Major Major Major Major
@Kwame: yeah, because a steel cage match totally only has one participant. I wasn’t imaging Hillary in there with a folding chair at all. Give me a break.
I see you still haven’t said anything about me pointing out that Cory Booker is single. The fact that you glossed over that means you probably have some deep-seated assumptions you need to check.
Kwame
@Major Major Major Major:
It’s good that he’s single it would simultaneously break oppression against singleness and show how one can be fulfilled and childfree.
Mnemosyne
@Kropadope:
Is it their conscious mindset, the way it is with Republican voters? No. But if you think that white Democratic voters are magically free from unconscious bias, both racial and gender bias, and that they never express that bias at the voting booth, you’re living in a dream world, and seem to have missed many recent events.
It’s kind of funny that pointing out gender bias makes you think I’m trying to “feel superior.” Almost like a mere woman thinks that she’s your equal, and you just can’t stand that, can you?
NotMax
TCM, 8:00 p.m. Saturday: Hobson’s Choice. Pleasant little film that lets Charles Laughton strut his stuff.
Major Major Major Major
@Kwame: I tend to agree, though CW says it would still be risky. We’re okay with philandering candidates, but maybe not single ones. Is that a prejudice against single people as unstable, etc.? Probably. But it doesn’t make ‘risky’ any less true, because you’re referring to the assumptions of people who haven’t made up their minds yet, aka morons.
It’s liberals pointing out how *other people* see it as risky.
Leto
@Mnemosyne: Can confirm, am DED too.
D.
E.
D.
Kropadope
@Mnemosyne:
No, I think you try to feel superior by disparaging rather than engaging with people who disagree with you. You attribute beliefs or feelings to them that you feel are odious because these people are beneath you, even when the assertions you are making have already been directly refuted by the person’s previous statements.
ETA: But go ahead and keep making accusations you can’t back up if that’s what makes you feel good about yourself.
I would argue they are far more conscious about that mindset and how it affects them.
Mnemosyne
Much as I hate leaving a vitriolic argument in progress, I do have to get up early tomorrow. Good night, gentlemen.
NotMax
And will have staff create for him a macro of “All right. You’ve covered your ass, now.”
Mnemosyne
@Kropadope:
You think Hillary Clinton is a habitual criminal who shouldn’t be president. I think she’s being held to a higher standard than the men who are at the same level. How, exactly, are we supposed to “engage” on that?
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne: poorly, late at night, and for all to see.
Night everybody! Sleepytime.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym
Cory Booker had two major negatives, aside from being towards the light end resume-wise:
1) He’s from New Jersey, and there’s no way that Clinton was going to pair herself with someone else from the northeast. (This probably also squashed Deval Patrick as a possibility.)
2) His replacement in the Senate would be appointed by Chris Christie.
So, he was never a realistic target. Besides, wasn’t it only a couple of months ago that he was being lambasted as a tool of Wall Street?
Tom Perez is also from the northeast, depending upon how you think of Maryland, but the big problem is that he’s never been elected to any position higher than the Montgomery County Council. I like him, but that just isn’t the resume of a VP pick.
The Castros have the liability that they’re from Texas, which means that they’ve never been serious candidates to hold any sort of statewide office, be it in the state government or U.S. Senator. It’s mayor of San Antonio and a congressman, plus appointed office. That’s probably doable, but Julian Castro also had the misfortune of being cited as violating the Hatch Act the same week the decision was being made, which probably torpedoed whatever chance he had.
There are a lot of POC who I think would be very good vice presidents, and I hope to see some of them back in this discussion in 2024, assuming that they don’t win the nomination for the top spot. Unfortunately, the timing and specific circumstances of July, 2016 weren’t auspicious for picking any of them right now.
Tim Kaine isn’t the safe pick because he’s a white male. Even being perceived as a centrist (to a greater extent than I think he actually is) isn’t the major element. He’s the safe pick because he’s got a bulletproof resume, is from a part of the country that offers some balance, has the right temperament to heighten the contrasts with the GOP ticket, has a record that means the major interest groups are on board (no matter what our progressive betters might think), and is someone Clinton thinks she can work well with.
He wasn’t the only possible choice, but there aren’t a lot of people of any ethnicity that meets all of those qualifications.
Peale
Hasn’t even picked her cabinet yet, and already she’s insulted half the room by not being inclusive enough. He problem with our constitution is that we only have one opening for theVP slot and it’s really the only position the candidate gets to fill before she’s elected.
Kropadope
@Mnemosyne:
I do? Funny how you know things about me that I don’t know about myself. The beliefs I thought I had were almost precisely opposite that. Thank you so much for letting me know what I really think.
Kropadope
@NotMax:
Not sufficient. He’ll need to obtain extensive intelligence.
Jon H
Remember: There are no safe states. California voted for Schwarzenegger as governor. MA has had multiple Republican governors recently. As has Connecticut. These are statewide votes, so it’s not like a little conservative enclave electing a Congressman or state legislator.
A freakshow novelty like Trump (or Arnold Schwarzenegger) is powerfully seductive and brings out voters who don’t normally participate, even in a state like California.
Kropadope
@Jon H: Presidential elections aren’t the same as gubernatorial or senatorial elections. If Trump is able to even contest states like MA or CA, Hillary would have already lost.
Barb2
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym:
Well done! That was very helpful. I understand a bit more about the logic of her choice.
I don’t know much east coast politics, except for a tiny bit about upstate NY and western Massachusetts.
Hilly had an amazingly deep field to choose from, plus she has the deep background checks. Now I wait to see if actions of this guy prove that he’s up to the job.
Libermann was a horrible choice for Gore. Which is why I remain neutral on Hillary’s VP choice. Not that it matters one bit.
What matters is that we get Hillary elected in November!!!!!!!!!!!
The Supreme Court is at stake. Plus the war on women is real – Trump is the enemy.
Kropadope
@Barb2: What bug do you have up your ass about the East coast?
Steeplejack (phone)
@Kropadope:
For fuck’s sake, all she said was that she doesn’t know much about East Coast politics. What bug is up your ass?
Felixmoronia
@Steeplejack (phone): Thank You.
Kropadope
@Steeplejack (phone): Oh, sorry, for some context check this thread.
Barb2
@Kropadope:
I do NOT follow east coast politics.
It is hard enough to keep up with west coast politics. We have huge states. Hundreds of counties. Eastern halves of West coast states are mostly conservative, western half of states tend to be liberal.
Hell – don’t forget crazy Kansas. There are way too many states between here and the east coast that no one can really know the intimate details of interstate politics.
Then there is the attitude like people like you. Makes me not want to bother.
Thin skinned much?
Kropadope
@Barb2: Maybe it’s because I have to put up with our bad drivers, our obnoxious tears, our inferior ocean, and our inability to distinguish the entire West Coast from LA.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Kropadope:
Oh, a multi-thread feud. Excuse me! By all means carry the fuck on. It can only enhance the conversation here.
Felixmoronia
@Kropadope: I apologize for my 5:01 comment. I missed that earlier thread and didn’t realize she had been that cranky. Wow!
Kropadope
@Steeplejack (phone): Not so much a feud as I noticed a theme in an earlier thread where I was not participating and I would be remiss not to give her just a little bit of shit. Now me and Mnemosyne, THAT is a multi-thread feud.
Kropadope
@Felixmoronia: No apology necessary. It is my responsibility to provide the appropriate information when it may be unclear what I’m talking about. I did not.
Barb2
I think I have stumbled into the middle of a cult gatherimg.
Snarky snarky snarky (for the dense ones that don’t understand a west coast snark snark)
Some hyper mom type goes on the attack, because I have the nerve to be neutral on VP choice. Her reading comprehension seems to be sub par. Snarky snarky snarky
And yes I know that the west coast is superior to the east coast and that thin skinned ones will throw a hissy fit. Mostly because most Americans know very little about the individual differences of each region of the US. Snarky snarky snarky snarky
Most people do have regional loyalties. It seems beyond comprehension to some east coasters that many of us out west have no desire to live on the east coast. More snarky snarky
Snark snark – the west coast has a lot more natural beauty than the east coast – snark snark snarky.
We do have better drivers. Snarky snarky snarky.
SNARK –
Kropadope
@Barb2: Oh, this place is definitely a cult. However, you seem to have stumbled onto that realization by accident rather than by design.
Barb2
Political geeks are strange. Then the cult think is so snap. Or snapping. Book reference.
Barb2
@Kropadope:
Where is the resident mental health professional? SNARK
Botsplainer, Neoliberal Corporatist Shill
@Kwame:
Your concerns are noted.
ryan
@Technocrat: restate has been having a meltdown for months over trump. As much as I disagree with most of what they say, they have been the most consistent of the right wing sites out there.
different-church-lady
[sigh] So are we gonna let this cut-rate Andy Kaufman derail every thread now to election day?
Bait, people: don’t take it.
Kropadope
@different-church-lady: Quien?
NickM
@freelancer: @freelancer: @freelancer: @freelancer: It might be more convenient to just send the briefings straight to the Russians.
Percysowner
@different-church-lady: Not me. I found Troll Block and suddenly this site managed to become better than ever! I mean half the comments are gone, but it’s a relief.
Truegster
@freelancer: friggin hilarious response. I’ve never seen that clip, what’s it from?
Aimai
Jesus so glad i missed this thread.
EBT
100% from NARAL, Planned Parenthood, and the Brady Campaign. That is what is known as starting off on the right foot.
Ken
@Major Major Major Major:
Maybe we’ve already had one? Or several.
For that matter, maybe we have a gay VP candidate now. It’s not uncommon for repressed gays to take extremely anti-gay positions.
Quinerly
@Mnemosyne:
Great post at #64. Thank you.
Quinerly
@Mnemosyne:
Great post at #75. Thank you.
Quinerly
@Mnemosyne:
Couldn’t have said it better at #83. Thank you.
Josie
@Mnemosyne: Thank you somuch. That was laugh out loud funny. I need to read Luvvie more often.
Quinerly
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym:
Great post at #107. Thank you.
Applejinx
@jl:
Bullshit. He’d like that, and we’re not here to make Trump happy and secure.
All they have to do is talk about how much better Pence is. How he’s a REAL president-in-waiting, whatever his policies: how Pence brings needed seriousness to the platform.
Trump will have his head within 48 hours, and it’s on to the next sacrificial Veep. They have to talk about how he’s a better man and likely a better President than Trump is.
Immanentize
@Mnemosyne: I heart this so.much. Thank you.
But maybe Kwame is down with what Stokely said about the only position for women in the movement, eh?
Immanentize
What is this? PokeTroll Go day at balloon juice? Remember catch and release!
And on my birthday as well. Another fitting beginning to my next trip around our friend, the sun.
Steppy
@Mnemosyne: Thank you for the link. I had no idea how empty my life was not knowing about Luvvie.
Dadadadadadada
@Barb2: I’m fair sure Trump has already peaked. The wheels are going to come off.
Dadadadadadada
@Kwame: You could have just typed “derp” and saved yourself a lot of trouble.
Dadadadadadada
@Kwame: The more important point is that a lot of Americans of Latino descent don’t speak Spanish. What is Kaine going to do for them?
Humdog
@Immanentize: @Immanentize: Happy birthday!!
Miss Bianca
@Major Major Major Major: THERE IS NO CAT, THERE IS ONLY ZUUL!!
O. Felix Culpa
@Steppy:
She is a national treasure. And here’s a link to her latest on the walking Cheeto running for president.
Soylent Green
Nope. Repubs fall in line. Most will be loyal and will keep his poll numbers up, no matter what he says or does.
Come election time I’m banking on depressed turnout.
No One You Know
@Kwame: I don’t believe those words mean what you think they do.
And insisting that color is a litmus test that vacates or constrains the candidate’s own choice…after she’s served a President of Color…is at best disingenuous. And at worst, a form of racist entitlement itself. A two-person ticket has to be representative on common principles transcending optics; if you want demonstrations of inclusiveness, GOTV for the state races and Congress. There is a growing bench of proven POC political professionals. Support them. The President didn’t claim entitlement, he demonstrated ability. Competence must become color-blind. That requires practice from everybody involved, in my view.
Quinerly
@No One You Know:
Excellent post! Thank you.
J R in WV
@Anoniminous:
As a life long yellow-dog Democrat, I watched more of the Republican convention live-stream (first ever) and MSM broadcast this week than I even have before. A cross between seeing what we’re up against and unable to take my eyes off the train-wreck. WOW – what an appalling accident to see unfolding before my very eyes.
Now I feel like I gotta watch Hillary and Tim’s show. Even though it doesn’t matter to me, I’m already signed up for monthly contributions. Thinking about going to Ohio or PA or even (shudder) NC to work in a tippy swing state for a couple of months.
sunny raines
@Felonius Monk:
there was never a truer axiom than “the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree” trumps kids are unquestionably all shit people just like him.
Logan Brown
@J R in WV: NC is a fantastic state. We are good people and you’ll need to target the suburbs in the Charlotte, Triangle, and Triad areas to persuade moderate independents to vote with their minds instead of their fears. You’ll find a bunch of great places to eat and provided you come after August, the weather will be great. Don’t denigrate a purple state that failed to show up for midterms one time and received the most reactionary state legislature since the 1870’s.
Groucho48
@inventor:
And I’ll wager that Dems and folks that will never vote for Trump made up a larger percentage of the viewership of this Convention than of previous Rep Conventions. I know I watched more of this one than I watched of the last 4-5 combined.