Smile and Wave Boys, Smile and Wave: Dogs and Penguins Edition

A pair of Maremma Sheepdogs in Australia have become the protectors of a waddle of penguins Down Under.

These two dogs are an Australian penguin’s best friend — with skills that have saved as many as a two thousand birds in the last ten years.

Foxes had nearly decimated the population of ‘little penguins’ on Middle Island — killing nearly 200 a year.

But, since 2006 when Eudy and Tula started guarding the species, which is the smallest type of penguin in the world, there hasn’t been any evidence of a predator attack.

After the dogs started patrolling the island, the flock grew from a low of just 10 birds to more than 150 today.

It was a local chicken farmer, Swampy Marsh, who first suggested using the large, white Maremma sheep dogs as penguin guardians because they were so good at protecting his free range hens.

The community of Warrnambool sponsored the dogs’ training and still provides homes for them through the winter.

During the penguins’ mating season, the dogs patrol the island five days a week, spending their days off at Flagstaff Hill Maritime Village, where they meet visitors and help educate people about conservation.

(H/T: to a commenter in one of yesterday’s posts at Little Green Footballs)

And because its in the title:

274 replies
  1. 1
    Baud says:

    Yay dogs!

  2. 2
    redshirt says:

    Awesome story!

    I’m reminded of a WB cartoon that for some reason really affected me as a youth: It had the sheep dog and the wolf clocking into work all friendly, but once on the job, they were mortal enemies.

  3. 3

    Heh. Penguins.

    Well, I hung out with three people and called my parents, so I’m gonna call it a day and play some video games.

    Maybe somebody will go see Secret Life of Pets with me tonight. Maybe not!

  4. 4
  5. 5
    dmsilev says:

    The LA area has a bunch of adorable new mountain lion kittens. Of course, as befits a zone of Godless Liberalism, family values are clearly under attack:

    Two litters of fluffy, blue-eyed mountain lion kittens born to two different mothers, but with the same father, were recently discovered in the eastern Santa Susana Mountains, officials said.

    Also, I doubt the lions are Christian.

  6. 6
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Of course, its a secret!

  7. 7
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @dmsilev: I saw that, was saving it for tomorrow night.

  8. 8
    redshirt says:

    @Adam L Silverman: LOL.
    They even lived together! The plot thickens.

  9. 9
    Comrade Scrutinizer says:

    @redshirt: They weren’t mortal enemies, exactly. Remember when they’d take a lunch break and share a meal together? They were just doing what they had (were paid? – there was a time clock involved) to do. What struck me the most was that they were just part of a bigger machine, and never questioned why Ralph needed to steal sheep, or why Sam thumped him when he tried. You could see them maybe getting together to get a beer and go bowling together when they punched out. It was a very different feel from the Road Runner and Wile E Coyote—very sad, in its way.

  10. 10
    Schlemazel Khan says:

    Those were funny cartoons! I loved the interplay between the dog & the wolf.

    I remember some war comedy from the early 60s. US soldiers pretending to be South Pacific fishermen. At some point a Japanese recon plane shows up. The Sargent calls out commands: “Stand by to smile and wave!” “SMILE AND WAVE!” For some reason I just found that hilarious.

  11. 11
    redshirt says:

    @Comrade Scrutinizer: That’s what I’m getting at. They were playing roles for work which made them mortal enemies, but after work they were best of friends. Is the world like that, young me thought.

    Now I consider Republican partisanship and think, yeah?

  12. 12
    redshirt says:

    @Comrade Scrutinizer: Also, who comes first? Ralph or Wile E.?

    They’re very similar characters.

  13. 13
    The Lodger says:

    @dmsilev: Remember, you are what you eat.

  14. 14
    Culture of Truth says:

    I think I heard “he’s into chickens in a big way!”

    I think an interesting thread would be “commenters: what interesting thing are you ‘into in a big way'”?

  15. 15
    Geoduck says:

    “Swampy Marsh”? I hope that’s a nickname, and not what his parents officially saddled him with.

  16. 16
    burnspbesq says:

    Those Marennas look an awful lot like Great Pyrenees.

  17. 17
    Felonius Monk says:


    I’m reminded of a WB cartoon

    You referring to Punching The Clock?

  18. 18
    dmsilev says:

    @The Lodger: Well, one of the LA mountain lions is believed to have eaten a koala from the zoo a few months ago, so I guess there’s a partially-Australian cougar wandering around the area now.

  19. 19
    Elmo says:

    I love this story so much. Maremmas are Livestock Guardian Dogs, or LGDs. I have been active in LGD rescue for almost ten years. We have an Anatolian now, and we were for a while the Southeast Regional Coordinators for National Great Pyrenees Rescue. We’ve probly had 100 LGDs come through our hands, and they are amazing animals. Really amazing. So much more independent and intelligent than your normal herding dog like a GSD.

  20. 20
    Elmo says:

    @burnspbesq: very similar, yes. Both are LGDs but there are subtle differences.

  21. 21
    redshirt says:

    @Felonius Monk: Indeed. Adam already beat you.

  22. 22
    Brachiator says:


    . Also, I doubt the lions are Christian.

    No, but they might come down to look for a few to snack on.

  23. 23
    WaterGirl says:

    @redshirt: @Adam L Silverman: I didn’t really watch cartoons when I was a kid but those were really charming.

  24. 24
    Brachiator says:

    @Comrade Scrutinizer:

    What struck me the most was that they were just part of a bigger machine, and never questioned why Ralph needed to steal sheep, or why Sam thumped him when he tried.

    This cartoon, like the Road Runner cartoons, nods to Samuel Beckett in distilling life into cosmic, but absurdly domestic essentials. And they are making stuff that has to appeal to kids as well.

    So we are asked to consider the absurdity of the average work day, and maybe capitalistic competition. The wolf and dog eat lunch so we don’t have to think about wolves eating sheep or devastating a village flock.

  25. 25
    hugely says:

    @dmsilev: but maybe they might eat christians?

    Eta: ok im not as bright and quick as others

  26. 26
    raven says:

    This was Mr Big, he looked kind of like a golden but he was white and came in at about 125 lbs. People would stand in line to ask about him when I’d take him downtown. He was fast as lightning and you could hit a golf ball into the woods and he bound until he found it. When my ex and I split she kept him until he broke his leg and had pins put in it. She was in no shape to give him the care he needed so we took him. This was right after we got Raven and, after about a day, the cocker puppy perked him up greatly and he made a great recovery. When my ex left town she couldn’t take him so we adopted him again. He was really old and only lasted about 6 months, just enough to fall back in love with him. A mighty dog and we always thought he had Marrema in him.

  27. 27
    Psych1 says:

    I had one of those dogs – a Marenna. What a wonderful dog she was! When I had a group over she would circle and go after anyone outside the group and gently try to bring them back. She was super protective of any children. Smart and very strong. I miss her.

  28. 28
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @WaterGirl: Were you chained up in the basement the whole time?

  29. 29
    redshirt says:

    @Brachiator: I want to read an essay on this subject. The material is all there.

  30. 30
    JeffH says:

    Dogs and penguins, living together…

  31. 31
    raven says:

    @Elmo: Our guy may not have been pure but he was smart as a whip and so loyal.

  32. 32
    benw says:

    The foxes: “well, fuck.”

  33. 33
    WaterGirl says:

    @raven: Beautiful boy.

  34. 34
    WaterGirl says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Not the whole time.

  35. 35
    Bill E Pilgrim says:

    @Culture of Truth: I love parrots in the springtime.

  36. 36
    Luthe says:

    @Culture of Truth: Considering the amount of poultry which are sexually violated in the comments (and sometimes on the front page) around here on any given day, your comment gives me pause.

  37. 37
    Zinsky says:

    @Comrade Scrutinizer: I preferred Quick Draw McGraw and the simple pleasure derived from when he “El Kabonged” someone over the head with his geetar! In fact, I would dearly love to El Kabong Donald J Trump!!

  38. 38
    divF says:

    Both Sam Sheepdog / Ralph Wolf and Roadrunner / Wile E. Coyote were creations of Chuck Jones.

    His autobiography, Chuck Amuck, is both funny and thoughtful about the animator’s art. His discussion of the Road Runner cartoons is brilliant, and includes one of my favorite quotes. He said that Wile E. Coyote was inspired by Santayana’s definition of a fanatic as someone who “redoubles his efforts having forgotten his aim”.

  39. 39
    Emma says:

    @raven: What a beautiful dog.

  40. 40
    seaboogie says:

    There is an Alpaca farm just around the corner and up the road a wee bit from where I reside that uses Maremmas to guard their herd. The dogs look like a cross between a Golden and a Great Pyrenees, and as soon as you hit their perimeter they start barking (and wagging their tails) and run to the opposite edge of the property to make sure that you’ve moved along, albeit in a very friendly fashion. The whole assemblage is a whole lotta cute in some gorgeous fur.

  41. 41
    Brachiator says:


    I want to read an essay on this subject. The material is all there.

    Many others have already written good stuff on this. The Open Culture site has an essay which notes:

    We always work within limits, and often those creators who are most deliberate about setting limitations for themselves produce some of the most profound and unusual works. One could name minimalists like Samuel Beckett, or Lars Van Trier, or Erik Satie. Or Chuck Jones, American animator of such classic Warner Brother’s characters as Bugs Bunny, Daffy Duck, Porky Pig, and, of course, the Road Runner and Wile E. Coyote. Hey, why not? He’s a genius.

    I am having problems adding the link from my mobile device, but I think it can be googled fairly easily.

    If I were writing an extended essay on this, I would also note that Road Runner has roots in the minimalist and absurdist universe of the early Krazy Kat comic strip. And I would suggest that at some level the Coyote is in love with Road Runner and the endless pursuit is a tragicomic romance.

  42. 42
    WaterGirl says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I never played with dolls, either. I was more into shows like flash Gordon and all the TV westerns.

    Back then, cartoons were a Saturday morning thing, right? My parents owned a neighborhood tavern and we lived in a double apartment upstairs. So we got to stay up late late late on weekend nights, maybe I was sleeping in on Saturday mornings? Or not, because now that I think of it, I loved Sky King and the other shows that played on Saturday morning.

    p.s. roy rogers!!

  43. 43
    Mike J says:

    @divF: I have an autographed copy. He is the greatest American filmmaker.

  44. 44
    Bill E Pilgrim says:

    Speaking of old cartoons, this is a rather great thing I ran across, or at least I thought so.

    If you don’t mind knowing which guy it is you can click here to cut to the part at the end where he gives a demonstration.

  45. 45
    Culture of Truth says:

    Hypothesis: a British accent makes anything sounds sophisticated. An Aussie accent makes anything sound satirical.

  46. 46
    Shana says:

    @Brachiator: That’s so funny. Just this evening my husband and I were listening to an Outnumbered CD and hubby decided to look at Jon Ginoli’s wikipedia page and then the Pansy Division page where he found a picture of Chris Freeman wearing a shirt that said “So many Christians, so few lions.”

  47. 47
    Miss Bianca says:


    “Morning, Sam.”
    “Morning, Ralph.”

    The memory still cracks me up, after all these years.

  48. 48
    redshirt says:

    @Culture of Truth: Possible. I think the Aussie accent sounds default “friendly”.

    I love Australia and Australians though, so, biased.

  49. 49
    divF says:

    @Mike J:
    I’m envious :-).

    He is the greatest American filmmaker.

    That brings to mind another discussion from Chuck Amuck. Animation is a fundamentally visual art. If you can be entertained with the sound off, then the animator has succeeded. If you can be entertained with the pictures off, then all you have is radio with pictures.

  50. 50
    Bill E Pilgrim says:

    @Culture of Truth: Kind of depends though. I’ve sat in pubs listening to drunken Cockney accents and it’s very possibly the least sophisticated speech I’ve ever heard.

    Can be very clever, also depending on who’s delivering it, but sophisticated sounding, hmmm, not really.

  51. 51
    J R in WV says:


    OMG, this describes the conservatives of America to a Tee~!!!

    And I never really thought Santayana was practical on a day-to-day level, and here he is, describing this summer’s politics, and the election this fall. O M G !!

    I should have kept up the philosophy major, and done computer science on the side!

    Thanks for the edumacation!

  52. 52
    Miss Bianca says:

    @benw: Pretty much! LOL!

    I saw a fox baby – or possibly just pre-teen – hunting by the side of the road the other day. I do love foxes, but I’m rather delighted by the thought of great big dogs guarding little penguins from them!

    Maybe Ozark Hillbilly should get a couple of them to guard his new flock of chickens from the weasels!

  53. 53
    redshirt says:

    @Brachiator: Fascinating.

    I wonder what the metaphor of Sam being basically blind prior to going to work, and being near omniscient while working means. Prior to work he’s bumping into trees and can barely get to the punchclock. While on the job there’s nothing the wolf can do that gets by him.

  54. 54
    Bill E Pilgrim says:

    Didn’t Sam Sheepdog win a Pullet Surprise for a play he wrote?

  55. 55
    TheMightyTrowel says:

    There’s a really great kids film called Oddball based on the maremmas who guard the penguins. Came out last year and everyone i know with kids loves it.

  56. 56
    divF says:

    @J R in WV:
    Yes, considering the GOP in its present form is one of the reasons why I so like the Santayana quote.

    The connection with the Roadrunner cartoons is also manifest: at least during the Obama administration, no matter how elaborate the contraption, the GOP manages to fail every time.

  57. 57
    MomSense says:

    Here’s a story from a farm I follow about their cow Lulu who thinks she is one of the Maremmas.


  58. 58
    Brachiator says:

    @Bill E Pilgrim:

    Didn’t Sam Sheepdog win a Pullet Surprise for a play he wrote?

    I say, I say, I believe that was Foghorn Leghorn who won the Pullet Surprise. His family egged him on.

  59. 59
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Bill E Pilgrim:

    “Didn’t Sam Sheepdog win a Pullet Surprise for a play he wrote?”


    Yes…I believe it was for “Buried Child” – no, wait! It was for “Buried Chicken Bone”.

    @Brachiator: You beat me! Like a bad bad egg! Well, guess the yoke’s on me…

  60. 60
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @WaterGirl: So there’s really only a partial excuse then.

  61. 61
    Culture of Truth says:

    This thread evolved quickly. I would also note Maremma is also an underapprecciated Italian wine region.

  62. 62
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @seaboogie: Please have them report to the Tour de France!

  63. 63
  64. 64
    NotMax says:

    One of the best laughs I ever consistently got during a show when directing involved penguins and something so blatantly obvious one would have thought the audience would have seen it coming from miles off.

    During “How Do You Solve a Problem Like Maria” in The Sound of Music, part of the choreography of the chorus of habit-clad nuns was doing the penguin walk in time to the music (both front and back view).

    @Bill E Pilgrim

    Unusual was that the voices for the Popeye cartoons were recorded after the bulk of the animation was done. Also that there was a loose script of sorts, but a good deal of the dialogue was done ad lib.

  65. 65
    redshirt says:


    Wonderful story. I love that picture of the two dogs at the back of the vet.

    Also, somehow your reply button is a link to your story. That seems to be happening more often lately. No idea why.

  66. 66
    Bill E Pilgrim says:

    @Miss Bianca: See there it is, the instant “grooooan” at any play on words.
    Now my theory is that there are bad puns, and good ones. I thought Sam Sheepdog/Sam Shepard wasn’t half bad.

    Oh. Or possibly that groan was for pullet surprise, but I can’t take credit for that one, long history there, the one I remember is Herb Caen who may have coined it, dunno.

    PS Just teasing back, not offended.

  67. 67
    Brachiator says:


    Prior to work he’s bumping into trees and can barely get to the punchclock. While on the job there’s nothing the wolf can do that gets by him.

    very curious. An interesting variation on the hyper intelligent Coyote who can never win against the simple Road Runner.

    But that the dog is bumbling when he is off the clock is very interesting. I wonder whether the animator ever talked about this nice bit of character.

  68. 68
    NotMax says:

    @Culture of Truth

    Depends on which British accent. :)

    For ironic, there’s the New Zealanders.

  69. 69
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Miss Bianca: Or one of these, seems to work well on weasels:

  70. 70
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @TheMightyTrowel: I figured this post would bring you out of whatever trench you’re digging in this week.

  71. 71
    MomSense says:


    I love the stance the vet takes. I remember seeing a vet check a horse to see if she was pregnant. My kids and I were really wide eyed as his arm disappeared up to his shoulder into the horse.

    That farm family is really cool. They live in a yurt and they are raising sheep for wool. They are making a mill to process the fleece into yarn.

  72. 72
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Bill E Pilgrim: “A groan is as good as a laugh under any circumstances” is Rule #2 of Miss Bianca’s Theory of Humor. (specifically related to puns).

    And Rule #1 would be, “No Laugh Too Cheap”.

    There is no Rule #3!!

  73. 73
    redshirt says:

    @Brachiator: Let’s not forget they appear to be live in companions, with Ralph functioning somewhat as a minder for Sam.

  74. 74
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Miss Bianca: When in doubt, use the whoopie cushion. That’s rule #3.

  75. 75
    Bill E Pilgrim says:

    @Miss Bianca: You actually have the same rules I do. Well except for the groan part but otherwise.

    The wording is slightly different, mine being basically “Don’t take anything I say seriously, I’m shamelessly going for the joke and nothing more” but close enough.

  76. 76
    Mary G says:

    The IPhone photography awards 2016 have some Japanese foxes that are too cute.

  77. 77
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Adam L Silverman: you know, I get a bad feeling when I see something labelled “Jessica’s Boobie Trap” and I see it’s from “Roger Rabbit”…of course, I am the one who just maintained, “No Laugh Too Cheap”!

  78. 78
    NotMax says:

    @Miss Bianca

    Rule #3 comes from Groucho: “You want gems, go to Africa.”

  79. 79
    redshirt says:

    @Bill E Pilgrim: Always be punchlining.

  80. 80
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Miss Bianca: As long as the link is to youtube it can’t be too bad.

  81. 81
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I thought “The Bigger the Pants, the Bigger the Laugh” was Rule #3, but I think it’s just a corollary to Rule #1.

    ETA: And the llamas are freaking hilarious. Did you see the footage of the gal on the white horse who was racing the cyclists on one of the legs of the Tour? (actually, it could have been a guy or a gal, I suppose).

  82. 82
    mike in dc says:

    Even though hunting is outlawed within the national parks of Zimbabwe, ten men were illegally hunting for elephants last month within the park’s boundaries when they stumbled upon twenty adult Southwest African lions. The pride of lions were not exactly, you know, expecting human visitors, so they immediately attacked the intruders. The attack was so instantaneous that five of the ten men were killed, three severely injured, and two lightly injured. The animals were mostly unhurt. The men who survived the attack ran to a nearby village for medical help where they were promptly arrested. Ah, karma!

    “The men were visibly traumatized by the attack,” said Commissioner-General Chihuri,“and after seeing their injuries and the remains of their dead comrades, I can see why. These guys were tough criminals carrying ak-47s, but they were literally shred to pieces and devoured by the lions. I have never seen an animal attack reach this level of violence, and I have seen a lot!”

    from yahoo though I can’t find the link now…

  83. 83
    NotMax says:

    @Miss Bianca

    Obligatory link to Pvt. Snafu.

  84. 84
    benw says:

    @TheMightyTrowel: thanks for the tip, yo!

  85. 85
  86. 86
    Bill E Pilgrim says:

    @redshirt: Put. That. Coffee. Down.

    Now there’s a great movie. I can watch it seemingly endlessly, every few months it’s time to watch it again and it always works.

    Shame about the right wing brain slug that seems to have taken up residence in his head but what are you gonna do.

    Every performance seems like a masterpiece. Just when you’re marveling at Ed Harris then Al Pacino starts speaking and blows you away. Then Jack Lemmon. And Alan Arkin. And that career-defining turn by Alec Baldwin. Oh and Kevin Spacey. Yeesh.

  87. 87
  88. 88
    seaboogie says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Heh – quite the pic!

  89. 89
    burnspbesq says:

    Bugs, Daffy, Woody Woodpecker, and Ren. The Cartoon Smart-Ass All-Stars.

  90. 90
    TheMightyTrowel says:

    @Adam L Silverman: it’s the trench called ‘semester 2 starts Monday.’ SIGH. Which is of course why i woke up today congested with a sore throat and aching joints.

  91. 91
    Miss Bianca says:

    @NotMax: OMG, that is insane. Is that a Chuck Jones creation? Pvt. Snafu looks like a younger, fitter (tho’ not, alas, smarter) version of Elmer Fudd!

  92. 92
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Miss Bianca: I did not see the person on the horse.

  93. 93
    Brachiator says:

    @Bill E Pilgrim:

    See there it is, the instant “grooooan” at any play on words.

    Some people think that punditrism is the last refuge of word scroungers.

  94. 94
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    Just back from Chicago. Saw Hope Solo get her 100th shut-out, saw the BLM protests at Grant Park (also saw the heavily armed and armored cops nearby- watching and filming), heard a really good left-handed blues man on Michigan Ave. near the Art Institute. My best moment of the day was the “Appreciate your support, brother” from one of the protestors. Chicago is a special place. I am exhausted and would like a drink.

  95. 95
    trollhattan says:

    @mike in dc:
    Whoa. Hard to stir up any sympathy but I do want to warn y’all it might be the critters’ week, so watch yourselves around Mister Fluffy.

    A matador has died after being gored by a bull in Spain – the first bullfighter to die in the ring in Spain this century. Victor Barrio, 29, a professional bullfighter, was killed when the bull’s horn pierced his chest. The fight, in the eastern town of Teruel, was being broadcast live on TV. Also on Saturday, a 28-year-old man died after being gored by a bull during a bull run through the village of Pedreguer, near Valencia.

    The last matador to die in a bullfight in Spain was Jose Cubero, or Yiyo, in 1985.

    Those will be some delicious steaks. For those scoring at home, matadors: 83,745, bulls: 2.

  96. 96
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @TheMightyTrowel: I feel your pain! I spent almost three weeks with a nasty respiratory infection. Chicken soup, hot tea with honey and lemon, alleve, and sleep. And feel better!

  97. 97
  98. 98
    trollhattan says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    She got it tonight? Yay, Hope!

  99. 99
    redshirt says:

    @Bill E Pilgrim: I love the film but there’s no way I’d rewatch it regularly. It’s far too stressful. I hate the stress! I could never do sales.

  100. 100
  101. 101
    TheMightyTrowel says:

    @Adam L Silverman: cheers! I’m currently under 2 warm purring cats so I’m being well taken care of 😊

  102. 102
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @trollhattan: 1- 0 today vs RSA at Soldier Field.

  103. 103
  104. 104
    redshirt says:

    @trollhattan: So bullfighting is like the Globetrotters vs. the Generals?

    How sporting.

  105. 105
    Viva BrisVegas says:

    @Culture of Truth:

    Hypothesis: a British accent makes anything sounds sophisticated. An Aussie accent makes anything sound satirical.

    In England anything other than RP (received pronunciation) is regarded as very declasse. Especially Australian and New Zealand accents.

    They’ll even look down on an Australian accent in Yorkshire.

    Of anglophones, it’s generally only the Americans and Canadians who have a good word to say about our accent.

    As for the poms, we just continue to tolerate the self regarding, ungrateful sods with graciousness and tact.

    By the way, are people aware that there was a movie made about this dog/penguin thing called Oddball?

  106. 106
    Emma says:


    For those scoring at home, matadors: 83,745, bulls: 2

    Fifty-five. And nobody really counts the wounded and crippled.

  107. 107
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Chicago exhausted *me* living there – but it’s been almost 20 years and you are making me feel unaccountably nostalgic for it right now!

  108. 108
    redshirt says:

    @Viva BrisVegas: I think of America, Canada, and Australia as three siblings raised by different parents. India is the step-child.

  109. 109
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Miss Bianca: Geisel! If you go to the link I put up, which is to all of them, it has an informational intro. Frank Capra was put in charge of the Armed Force Motion Picture Unit with the rank of colonel. He tapped Theodore Geisel to be in charge of the animation branch. Capra created the character of Snafu and they took bids from different studios to do the cartoons. The original model was by Heineman, developed by Chuck Jones, and the regular Warner Brothers staff was used: Jones, Freeling, Tashlin, and Clampett. Mel Blanc did the voices. MGM and Hanna-Barbera were also brought in for one offs, including a Tex Avery done one, that never happened because WW II ended and the contract was cancelled. Here’s the list of who did what:

    Coming! SNAFU! – Chuck Jones (June 1943)
    Gripes – Friz Freleng (July 1943)
    Spies – Chuck Jones (August 1943)
    The Goldbrick – Frank Tashlin (September 1943)
    The Infantry Blues – Chuck Jones (September 1943)
    Fighting Tools – Bob Clampett (October 1943)
    The Home Front – Frank Tashin (November 1943)
    Rumors – Friz Freleng (December 1943)
    Boo by Traps – Bob Clampett (January 1944)
    SNAFUperman – Friz Freleng (March 1944)
    SNAFU vs Malaria Mike – Chuck Jones (March 1944)
    A Lecture on Camouflage – Chuck Jones (April 1944)
    Gas – Chuck Jones (May 1944)
    Going Home – Chuck Jones (May 1944)
    The Chow Hand – Frank Tashlin (June 1944)
    Censored – Frank Tashlin (July 1944)
    Payday – Friz Freleng (September 1944)
    Target SNAFU – Friz Freleng (October 1944)
    A Few Quick Facts: Inflation – Osmond Evans (November 1945)
    Three Brothers – Friz Freleng (December 1944)
    In the Aleutions – Chuck Jones (February 1945)
    A Few Quick Facts: Fear – Zach Schwartz (April 1945)
    It’s Murder She Says… – Chuck Jones (May 1945)
    Hot Spot – Friz Freleng (July 1945)
    Operation SNAFU – Friz Freleng (July 1945)
    No Buddy Atoll – Chuck Jones (October 1945)
    Private SNAFU Presents Seaman TARFU – George Gordon (January 1946)

  110. 110
    Bill E Pilgrim says:

    @redshirt: I very briefly worked in a place sort of like that when I was in my early 20s, not doing what they do, just doing carpentry in the office but it had me among them every day for a few weeks so maybe that’s partly why it rang such bells for me. Also it’s just freaking brilliant.

    Reference link.

  111. 111
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @trollhattan: Well, senor, sometimes the matador does not always win…”

  112. 112
    NotMax says:

    @Miss Bianca

    Whole series of Pvt. Snafu cartoons made as instructional shorts for the armed forces during WW2 (see Adam’s link above). Chuck Jones directed some of them; the character itself was created by Frank Capra. Many of the toons were written by Dr. Seuss.

  113. 113
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @NotMax: I’ve seen the documentaries on that. Amazing how quickly the domestication begins to affect the physiognomy.

  114. 114
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Adam L Silverman: as always I bow deeply, and with respect bordering on reverence, for your Google-Fu.

  115. 115
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @TheMightyTrowel: Very good. The worst part for me, after the fever, and the chest pain, and the aches, and feeling like something the cat dragged in, got a good look at in the light, and then dragged right back out to the curb for trash pickup, was not having the energy to walk the dogs. They were, by and large, pretty good, but they’re active four foots, so…

  116. 116
    seaboogie says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Nicely played, thematically, Sir…..

  117. 117
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Miss Bianca: birdie! bunny! squirrel, squirrel, squirrel!!!!!!!!

    Wait, are we not just pointing at animals and identifying them?

  118. 118
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Viva BrisVegas: Yes, the Mighty, but currently ill, Trowel has so informed us about the movie.

  119. 119
    trollhattan says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    Caught Chicago vs. Portland a couple weeks ago. Fun! I think I like NWSL more than MLS. Didn’t hurt there were four US Women’s team members on the field. Here are three of them (never got a pic of all four scrapping in the same area).

    Julie Johnston is a beast! Did not pick up from WWC TV coverage how big she is.

  120. 120
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: btw, just started “Luther”. Pretty much based on the “Holy Shit!” tenor of your remarks upon the same in weeks past. Plus, well…Idris Elba. Ohhh, yeah…a little frightening how attractive he makes “buggier than batshit and violent to boot!”

  121. 121
    Bill E Pilgrim says:

    @efgoldman: I’m taking that as a compliment but you’ll have to read the entire rest of this thread to find out why.

  122. 122
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Miss Bianca: Beautiful day – only on the 70s and low humidity with breezed off of the lake. I wanted to stay longer at the BLM protests, but my s-i-l was nervous about having her kids in the area if shit went bad. The game atmosphere was hilarious; all sorts of teen and tween girls (most, including my niece, wearing Alex Morgan jerseys) there to see their idols in person – l imagine it was the non-evil equivalent of a Bieber concert.

  123. 123
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @redshirt: What about New Zealand?

  124. 124
    redshirt says:

    @Bill E Pilgrim: I get literal shivers. You realize this big pitch is about a monthly competition? Meaning, next month it starts again. Imagine living like that? Like some sales slave, on an endless quest to close the deal, make the numbers, line up some leads.

  125. 125
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @seaboogie: Thank you, thank you very much.

  126. 126
    trollhattan says:

    “She simultaneously wants and does not want fries. What are her motivations?”

    Psychiatrist: “I can prescribe something for that. Next!”

  127. 127
    redshirt says:

    @Adam L Silverman: They’re really just part of Australia at this point, aren’t they? Of course, they won’t say that, but from a global point of view, the two islands are similar enough to think of as one.

  128. 128
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @redshirt: And that is how bar fights start.

  129. 129
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Miss Bianca: Actually if you go to the link NotMax put up, its the first thing along the right hand column under similar videos. So there’s not much magic actually going on with this.

  130. 130
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @redshirt: Are you trying to start a war?

  131. 131
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Do you remember the Ralph Bakshi “Lord of the Rings”? I was in high school – just barely – when it came out. I went with my cohort to see it.

    One of the maddeningly wonderful effects in that movie was the way they drew the Nazgul/Black Riders. That moment when the Black Riders are closing in on Frodo, and he’s reaching for the ring, and it’s very tense? Suddenly a childish treble from the front of the house pipes up: “HORSIE!”

    And the entire theater burst out laughing.

  132. 132
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Never give your secrets away. Jebus.

  133. 133
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    @Adam L Silverman: s/he Mighty… for some reason I believe she is the pronoun.

  134. 134
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: I had the privilege of having two Kiwi colonels as students at USAWC. One my first year, one my third. Both had commanded the same regiment, which is the one that does all the irregular and unconventional warfare stuff. They did some of the best work, bar none, in Afghanistan during OEF. When we did the lesson blocks on Low Intensity Warfare, Insurgency/Counterinsurgency, and Terrorism/Counter-terrorism, during my first year, one of the American students (an Army Med staff officer, not a doc), had brought his copy of Kilkullen. My New Zealand colonel saw it on the desk during one of the breaks, chortled, shook his head, and wandered off. When I asked him about his response, he basically just shook his head and said amateur.

  135. 135
    ThresherK (GPad) says:

    @Bill E Pilgrim: When Phil on a modern Family let go with this, I was in paroxyms of laughter. I had to tell Spousal ThresherK what it was a nod to:

    Always Be Closing Don’t Ever Forget Great Home Ideas Just Keep Lurking, Mostly Nearby.

  136. 136
    redshirt says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I understand New Zealand has a rich and diverse heritage as a nation and I welcome her as a sibling in the America Canada Australia family. Cheers!

    And sometimes India.

  137. 137
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Miss Bianca: I remember it. He was unable to get the funding out of the studio to finish it and do the second movie. I think it actually holds up pretty well and he did a pretty decent job. Especially when you compare it to some of his other work. Wizards is interesting, but its also bugfuck nuts, and the animation is nowhere near as good as in his The Lord of the Rings.

  138. 138
    redshirt says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Do Kiwis and Aussies actively dislike each other? I was not aware of such a hatred.

  139. 139
    NotMax says:

    @Adam L. Silverman

    It’s ma-a-a-agic.

    (FYI to the young’uns: Pace Doug Henning.)

  140. 140
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Its a she, I forgot. I’ll go back and fix it.

    ETA: Actually that was just a typo, that was supposed to be “the Mighty, but currently ill, Trowel”. I dropped the “t” when typing it out.

  141. 141
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @NotMax: Ahh the Hippie Magician!

  142. 142
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @trollhattan: Johnston and Sauerbrunn are due a lot of credit for Solo’s record, and Solo acknowledged the team’s role in the achievement. Based on play on the field, Sauerbrunn was MVP of the match, but the 100 meant Solo got it. My brother basically said ” Lately, the two blondes at the back make sure that no one gets good shots at Hope.” I can’t disagree.

  143. 143
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Nothing worse than a pair of blondes blocking your scoring attempts…//

  144. 144
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @redshirt: You also don’t get the horror that is Minnesota, I would guess.

  145. 145
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Adam L Silverman: True dat. OTOH, they are monsters in the best way.

  146. 146
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: I have always been impressed with their level of play, how they’re coached and respond to that coaching, etc. If only the men’s team would do as well. Its one of the reasons that the pay disparity is so outrageous. The women’s team is orders of magnitude better and more successful than the men’s team.

  147. 147
    Belafon says:

    In Baton Rouge:

    .@deray McKesson was arrested, apparently for no reason. It’s live-streamed here. (4:46)— Charles Johnson (@Green_Footballs) July 10, 2016

  148. 148
    pseudonymous in nc says:


    Do Kiwis and Aussies actively dislike each other? I was not aware of such a hatred.

    Aussies joke that Kiwis are backwards backwoods types with an interest in sheep. Kiwis joke that Aussies think they’re sophisticated but are actually lazy drunks (who can’t hold their drink) and have no class. But it’s more of a friendly rivalry than anything else.

  149. 149
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Belafon: That’s not going to end well. Also landscape mode!!!!

    Finally, how you holding up?

  150. 150
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @pseudonymous in nc: Not in rugby.

  151. 151
    redshirt says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Bar fights are one of my specialties.

  152. 152
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Adam L Silverman: There were some pay protest signs around the stadium. BTW Soldier Field is a creepy place. Horrible, horrible pictures everywhere.*

    *No one hates Payton, but everyone else?

  153. 153
  154. 154
    trollhattan says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    The best keeper is a bored keeper. My kid’s keeper this afternoon was quite far from boredom, to the team’s disadvantage. Poor thing was getting shelled and after a first half shutout it was downhill in half the second. Good defense=bored keeper.

  155. 155
    Psych1 says:

    Just read that Trump is seriously considering Michael Flynn for VP. That could be a game changer. I used to know Flynn. He is a very good basketball player as well as very good at many other things. Do not underestimate him.

  156. 156
    Belafon says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Doing better. Cried a little this morning, after a mostly cry-free yesterday. Think about her a lot, but I’m finally starting to want to do stuff again, so that’s good. Thanks for asking.

  157. 157
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @trollhattan: I was not criticizing Solo. When shit gets real, she does insane things. The team makes sure she doesn’t need to do so all the time.

  158. 158
    trollhattan says:

    @pseudonymous in nc:
    Summarized Norway-Sweden pretty well, too.

  159. 159
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Belafon: I missed something.

  160. 160
    Belafon says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: I had to have my dog Caramel put to sleep on July 5th. Here’s the Daily Kos diary I wrote for her.

  161. 161
    trollhattan says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    Didn’t interpret it that way, nosir. She takes care of business every. single. time even if 88 minutes in the box are ho-hum, and has catlike moves when needed. My kid likes her too.

  162. 162
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Belafon: I am sorry. My condolences.

  163. 163
    Belafon says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Thanks. As you can imagine, it’s been a rough few days. I’ve been sharing it with anyone who would listen (or read). It’s helped.

  164. 164
    Emma says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Hey! No badmouthing Wizards! It introduced me and my little group to one of the seminal phrases of our young adulthood; They’ve killed Fritz! They’ve killed Fritz! Those lousy stinking yellow fairies! Those horrible atrocity-filled vermin! Take that! Take that! They killed Fritz!

  165. 165
    Punchy says:

    All this talk about cartoons and penguins and nothng about Chilly Willy? More butter? MORE BUTTER! More syrup? MORE SYRUP!

  166. 166
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: I’ve been there, its a strange facility. Its amazing the disparity in how these things are handled. Chicago PD is, of course, infamous. But you see what was done in Atlanta yesterday, where everything went smoothly. And then you get Phoenix, also yesterday, where when the marchers/protesters refused to postpone their march, the Phoenix PD went right into full riot suppression mode with bean bag rounds and pepper spray.

    The whole Baton Rouge thing is going to be problematic. That the DOJ has the investigation is a good thing, but, based on what I’ve seen and my professional contacts I’ve talked to, including in law enforcement, they think the officers will ultimately be cleared by DOJ just as Darren Wilson was in Ferguson. They’re more skeptical about the MN shooting, but hadn’t seen enough to venture an informed opinion either way.

    The real issues here are: 1) That a good chunk of America, aided by the established talking points from Fox, and talk radio, and police unions, and a select group of self declared professional experts and advocates are that Black Lives Matter is racist, has consistently openly advocated for violently attacking law enforcement, is a terrorist organization, that the President and his administration has been inflaming racial intolerance against whites in order to create crises that they can then exploit to destroy freedom and liberty. 2) the first part is partially rooted in the purposeful decision to ignore the implied “too” in the statement “Black Lives Matter!”. As most of us get it should be understood as Black Lives Matter Too! Its not exclusive of other demographics within the US, rather the intent is to assert the same existential, natural (for whatever those mean outside of Blackstone and classic Catholic theology and the social contract theorists), and civil rights and liberties as everyone else. Including not being summarily executed for a variety of activities and actions that, even when criminal, wouldn’t actually bring the death penalty after arrest, arraignment, and adjudication. 3) There is a larger, systemic problem with our criminal justice system and all its components. Some of which are the result of over 60 years of different Federal, state, and local policies and strategies for policing, crime control, prosecution, etc. Many of these policies are now baked into our criminal justice cake and they are in direct competition or contradiction of each other. They run the gamut from underfunded courts, prosecutors and public defenders offices, crime labs, inadequate law enforcement recruitment standards, all sorts of training imperatives that have come in over the years to deal with time period specific criminogenic problems, but never sunset, the profit imperative in law enforcement and corrections, corrections itself from top to bottom, underfunded and poorly supervised crime labs, and a whole host of other issues. And this is all on top of the fact that we, as a self governing society, refuse to pay for anything that’s a public good. So all of it is underfunded or, as we’ve seen in too many municipalities, policing and the courts are used as a way to fund the rest of the municipal functions, which creates a terribly adversarial relationship between law enforcement, who are now debt enforcement, and the citizenry they’re supposed to be serving. 4) And none of this accounts for the tortured history of how law enforcement and policing developed in the US, as opposed to in say Britain.

    Unfortunately trying to deal with this wicked problem, or, rather, interrelated and intertwined wicked problems, would require that we didn’t have the societal equivalent of ADHD and PTS/post 9-11 psychosis, as well as governmental structures that weren’t sclerotic.

  167. 167
    Punchy says:

    @efgoldman: Perhaps Im badly out of the loop, but who is Mike Flynn? Errol’s brother?

  168. 168
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Belafon: I understand, I’ve been there. Its also why I keep a spare around at all times!

    You did a lot of good things for her, including that last good thing of not prolonging her suffering. Eventually you’ll do one final good thing for her/in her memory: you’ll give another dog as good a life as you gave her.

  169. 169
    Mary G says:

    @Belafon: I missed the news about Caramel. She was beautiful. I’m sorry for your loss.

  170. 170
    Psych1 says:

    @efgoldman: You are making a mistake. Take my advice. Do not underestimate him. He is formidable. You may think he is an unknown but he has a following and influence.

  171. 171
    redshirt says:

    We’re doomed.

  172. 172
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @trollhattan: On a completely piggish angle, she also has a very nice ass. Our seats were behind the goal. In the second half, it was there.

  173. 173
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Emma: I’m not badmouthing it, its very different. Especially as I saw Lord of the Rings first. The story is interesting, but I don’t think the animation is as good as his LOR. He teases it at the beginning with the world building and back story, but then it gets very uniquely stylized.

  174. 174
    Belafon says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    @Mary G:

    Thanks to both of you.

  175. 175
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @efgoldman: He’s a career intel officer. And he’s convinced he’s always right, even when he’s not. Which is why he was relieved of his last command, DIA Director, early and forced into retirement. He wrote a proposal about how to collect socio-cultural information in Afghanistan during OEF. It was clear he didn’t speak to anyone who’d actually done this work, which prompted this:
    (Ricks, not me, was responsible for the title)

  176. 176
    Belafon says:

    @Psych1: The only VP I can think of that might have won an election was LBJ, because he was so closely tied to Texas. No other VP has done much to increase the chance of winning, only hurt it, as in the case of Palin.

  177. 177
    Emma says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Oh, I know. I was teasing. Bugfvck nuts doesn’t even begin to describe it, iirc. But I watched it with a bunch of folks that were either smashed on vodka or higher than the proverbial kite and I was the only one stone cold sober. Weird evening.

    I might track it down and watch it again.

  178. 178
    trollhattan says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    I’m not finding any disagreement here. Have you seen the new ESPN “Body” issue? Christen Press. That is all.

  179. 179
    seaboogie says:

    @Belafon: So sorry for your loss of your sweet Caramel…hugs to you.

  180. 180
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Let me differentiate. As a Packer fan, Soldier Field is enemy territory – Ditka pics and stuff. While I was in Grant Park, I did not see misconduct from the police. I also did not see anything that could possibly seen as threatening from the BLM protestors. Had I been there alone or only with my dad, I would have stayed for the duration. I was there with in-laws* and niece and nephew. Best I could do today was walk over to the protestors as a sunburned, pasty, white guy and say keep up the good work.

    *My s-i-l works with sex abuse victims. Her view of the police is colored by her job.

    ETA: I hope I saw rikyrah. They were doing a great job.

  181. 181
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Punchy: Lieutenant General (ret) Michael C. Flynn. Last assignment/command: Director, Defense Intelligence Agency. Final tour: not completed and retired from service before schedule.

  182. 182
    satby says:

    @Miss Bianca: I really miss my hometown! Forever Chicagoan here.

  183. 183
    Belafon says:

    @seaboogie: Thanks.

  184. 184
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @efgoldman: Chief Brown runs a very good department. Its why I posed the Dallas PD Use of Deadly Force policy and link to their Officer Involved Shooting webpage on Thursday night/Friday morning. Overall they did a good job in their response. They didn’t turn on the marchers, they got them out of there. Then they switched gears quickly and began their operation. They didn’t shoot anyone, tear gas anyone, pepper spray anyone. They took everyone they suspected – the woman, the two guys in the Mercedes, even Mark Hughes – peacefully into custody. They negotiated for several hours with the actual shooter. And while the resolution to that was novel, given he was still shooting at the cops on the scene, I’m not sure that how they took him out, other than they felt they had no choice but to kill rather than capture, is really that out of line.

  185. 185
    satby says:

    @Belafon: Oh, sorry again Belafon! Hang in there.

  186. 186
    Ruckus says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Don’t know if this counts but I spent 3 weeks with a massive E-Coli infection back in March. I of course knew I was sick but it sneaks up on you and I had no real idea how bad it had gotten until I finally got the antibiotics (a long story for another time. And place. Maybe) and they started to work. I know that sounds strange, to be that sick and not really realize how far it’s gotten.

  187. 187
  188. 188
    NotMax says:

    BTW Adam, did you see this comic book related comment?

  189. 189
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Ruckus: I’ve been there with a sinus and chest infection I got when my team was in training isolation at the end of 2007.

  190. 190
    Belafon says:

    @lamh36: DeRay would know not to fight.

  191. 191
    Belafon says:

    @satby: Thanks.

  192. 192
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @efgoldman: FWIW, I found the CPD response to the BLM protests to be provocative. Not overly so, but just enough to try to cause a couple of hotheads to trigger a response. They were doing call and response stuff to ” Hands up! Don’t shoot!” No way that was a threat. To anyone.

  193. 193
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @NotMax: I actually put up a link on that for redshirt earlier in the week. My understanding is this is done based on the Marvel Cinematic Universe Captain America who is from Brooklyn, rather than the original Kirby comic book origin where he is from the lower East Side like Kirby himself was. In fact they have movie Cap’s quote to the Red Skull on the base of the statue: “I’m just a guy from Brooklyn”.

  194. 194
    lamh36 says:

    @Belafon: exactly…

  195. 195
  196. 196
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @lamh36: I’ve been trying to find a live feed, but the only one I can find at the advocate does not have sound.

  197. 197
    TheMightyTrowel says:

    As a furriner with australian perm residency let me just add from my perspective that the very different histories of colonialism in Aus and NZ are major distinguishing features. While western colonialism hit both Indigenous populations hard, the central role that Maori people and culture play in nz has zero parallel in Australia.

    There are high profile Indigenous Australians but the level of casual racism is astounding and the lack of knowledge in white australia about indigenous culture is tragic. At least some of this is demographic – something like 15% of the NZ population is Maori while 2% of the australian population is Indigenous. But it shows through – NZ feels a lot less european and a lot more pacific than Aus to me. I’ve been told Maori culture also influences the famously off kilter NZ sense of humor but that’s hearsay.

    Ps: if you’re looking for some great kiwi laffs, films i recommend: black sheep; what we do in the shadows; hunt for the wilderpeople – the director of the latter 2 is also directly the next Thor film so i expect that to be an interesting viewing experience.

  198. 198
    redshirt says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I can’t believe Captain America is getting a statue. We’re approaching peak nerd.

  199. 199
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @redshirt: I doubt it.

  200. 200
    redshirt says:

    @TheMightyTrowel: Which makes NZ slightly closer to India in the “Children of England” countries, since like Australia, America and Canada “neutralized” their aboriginal populations too.

  201. 201
  202. 202
    Ruckus says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    And while the resolution to that was novel, given he was still shooting at the cops on the scene, I’m not sure that how they took him out, other than they felt they had no choice but to kill rather than capture, is really that out of line.

    This matches my thinking. If he was still shooting at them, wasn’t thinking of giving up their only other choice is to wait him out and risk him killing/wounding someone else in the meantime or risking lives trying to shoot him or do what they did. Sometimes the only way to fix a situation is to end it. It’s not a great way but sometimes it is the only way. We pay them supposedly to make the hard decisions when that is the only way. IMHO we don’t pay or expect them to make that decision when it obviously isn’t necessary, a 12 yr old, unarmed, reaching for ID when asked, for no other reason than having a different skin color.

  203. 203
    redshirt says:

    @Adam L Silverman: The MCU will collapse in 5-6 years. DC is already destructing.

  204. 204
    Ruckus says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    This wasn’t the first time. Passed out in formation, waiting for breakfast, in boot camp. Spent a week in the hospital with a 105 temp. Didn’t know I was sick until I passed out and fell down. That was fun.

  205. 205
    rikyrah says:

    @Miss Bianca:
    Don’t pick on Alice……fictional crazy women need luv too😁

  206. 206
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @redshirt: Read history. Then talk. Until you know what you are talking about, you are likely to offend someone.

  207. 207
    dogwood says:

    Since I don’t do Facebook, my sister informed me earlier that there’s a local bunch on fb who are trying to organize some sort of event in support of BLM. Mind you this is an overwhelmingly white community in north central Idaho. She said there seemed to be a lot of interest, and the people promoting the idea were serious. However it turns out, there is some optimism in the fact that people far removed from what’s happening have had enough and want to speak up.

  208. 208
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @redshirt: I think if Suicide Squad and then, and perhaps especially, Wonder Woman do well, that will by some breathing room. I also think Justice League 1 is going to be Snyder’s last film for DC. It seems he’s being eased out, which, I think, is a good thing.

  209. 209
    redshirt says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Say something, anything, risk offending someone.

  210. 210
    pseudonymous in nc says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    The whole Baton Rouge thing is going to be problematic.

    Who controls the police? Either the mayor and city government lack the power, in which case, we have a big problem, or they lack the will, in which case Baton Rouge needs a new mayor and city government.

    Yes, accountability is a wicked problem in a fragmented governmental model, but unaccountable police forces that behave like occupiers and believe they are blessed with impunity are simply malignant.

  211. 211
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Ruckus: I didn’t realize how bad I was until we wound up in an unheated NG training room at Leavenworth when it was about 17 degrees and I was both shivering and sweating bullets at the same time. My team mates and my ASO dragged me to a doc in the box as we were after hours for anything other than an emergency. Of course they put me on ZPAC, which did nothing. So a second doctor at the medshed put me on levoquin a couple of days later.

  212. 212
    TheMightyTrowel says:

    @Adam L Silverman: from your lips to fsm’s ears

  213. 213
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @rikyrah: Hey now, who picked on Alice?

    Were you at Grant Park? I thought the people protesting there, 4 pm-ish, were doing a remarkable and disciplined job. They commanded my attention.

  214. 214
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @pseudonymous in nc: I agree with what you are saying, but that’s not what I meant by Baton Rouge is going to be problematic. Its going to be problematic because it was caught on video, what was recorded looks bad, but there is a good chance that the DOJ investigation will clear the officers involved. That’s what I mean by problematic.

  215. 215
    redshirt says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Wonder Woman might be DC’s salvation. An upbeat, optimistic origin tale (with a percentage of grim/darkness) might be able to shake the death slump DC is in currently.

    Suicide Squad is going to do middling numbers. 175-200 million domestic same foreign.

    You can quote me here.

  216. 216
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @TheMightyTrowel: While its not a strategy, we can still hope. I bought the digital download of Dawn of Justice, but haven’t been able to bring myself to watch it yet.

  217. 217
    Steeplejack says:

    @Bill E Pilgrim:

    I think that was Sam Shepherd.

  218. 218
    Ruckus says:

    Want to talk a little about a friend. Went to his memorial today. I’ve know him for 43 yrs he was 2 yrs younger than me. Someone asked me a couple of weeks ago what I’d like people to say about me on my 90th birthday or memorial. My answer was “He wasn’t an asshole.” That got some chuckles. But what I’d really like is that I get one tenth of the outpouring my friend got. He was a character and a half but no matter how long it had been since he’d seen you last he remembered it, gave you a big hug and just wanted to be your friend. I met his first girlfriend, he was 14, she was 12. She’s been his friend through thick and thin and 3 marriages that I know of and lived with him for his last ten yrs. She was only one of about 30 people to tell stories about him and how kind and good he was and how much he changed their lives, including a 12 yr old boy who he taught to fly ultralight planes, which is what he did for the last few years. His mom had to do the talking for him he couldn’t manage. It’s hard to lose a friend like that when you are 12. It isn’t all that easy being a lot older. But we all go in some fashion and at some point. It would be nice to have lived a life that touched that many people, most in a very positive way. I can’t think of anyone else I’ve known that has, including me. Guess it’s pretty damn lucky to at least know one.

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    Felixmoronia says:

    @rikyrah: Risking a spoiler for some I don’t for one minute believe that Alice Morgan is dead. Not for one minute!

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    redshirt says:

    @Ruckus: Very cool indeed. We should all be lucky to have such influence.

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    Adam L Silverman says:

    @redshirt: I will not quote you here, I will not quote you in a Mt. Rushmore sized ear.

    Suicide Squad is either going to over perform or under perform. The third trailer looks like it could be fun. Or everything fun was in the trailer. Hard to tell at this point.

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    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @redshirt: A private link? Ever so cool.

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    Belafon says:

    @redshirt: It sounds like the one thing that might save Suicide Squad is Deadpool.

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    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Ruckus: Sincerest condolences on your loss.

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    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Ruckus: My condolences.

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    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Belafon: DC and/or Warner’s thinks they are going to have a hit. They’ve already optioned Robie and several others for a Harley Quinn standalone movie. If they’re smart they’ll have Amanda Connor and Jimmy Palmiotti write the screenplay.

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    Adam L Silverman says:

    I’ve updated the overnight open thread from protest live feeds, as they’ve ended, to something cute and cuddly!

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    redshirt says:

    @Belafon: They’re certainly going to try.

    I don’t think they can do anything remotely close to Deadpool numbers.

    I’m also fascinated in how Will Smith is Box Office Lead now. Amazing.

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    Emma says:

    @Ruckus: Sounds like your friend was one of the mensches of the world. Those are the ones we miss the most.

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    Miss Bianca says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I really wish he could have used some variation on that Nazgul live-action-animation action for his other characters, who looked ridiculously flat by comparison.

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    Belafon says:

    @Ruckus: So sorry.

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    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @redshirt: Are you being an asshole, or did we ( you and I) miss something? That is, are you trying to pick a fight or are we missing some calls?

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    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Miss Bianca: It was interesting what he did and did not chose to rotoscope. A lot of the Orcs that were rotoscoped was the same material he used for the massed army fight scenes in Wizards.

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    Belafon says:

    @redshirt: I don’t think so either, but they did a number of additional shoots because people reacted positively to Deadpool’s characters. From what we all heard, the original trailer that contained all the funny clips contained ALL the funny clips from the movie. Because of deadpool they went back and shot a bunch more. I only know a little about that part of the DC universe, but that kind of story would need some dark humor, probably a lot like the jokes my family made when we buried my grandmother’s ashes.

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    Debbie(aussie) says:

    @TheMightyTrowel: Not just kids😀

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    Miss Bianca says:

    @satby: Not I – but Chicago has seeped into my soul. I think about it lots still, and my friends there, even tho’ I’ve never been back since I moved away.

    @TheMightyTrowel: “What We Do In the Shadows” was hilarious – I don’t think I’ve laughed as hard in years as when the new vamp flies into the garage door as a bat…

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    Ruckus says:

    Thanks all.
    Really I’ve sort of been expecting something for a while, he’s lived a full life but much of it involved drugs and booze, although he detoxed himself quite a while back, that didn’t change him much at all, other than his health. He was the same person the first day I met him till the last time I saw him. Most of the people who were there hadn’t known him 2/3ds of his life to know that. He was my neighbor for a few years a long time ago and that was always a hoot. We raced together and he was always faster than me. But he never once acted like he was better than anyone else in all those years.
    Anyway it’s been a long day, and in some ways very sad and in others very nice.

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    redshirt says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: I have no idea what you’re upset about. Sorry if I caused any misunderstanding.

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    Steeplejack says:


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    gwangung says:

    @Belafon: Well, if they did it right, Suicide Squad HAS to have that dark gallows humor.

    My hearing was that that was part and parcel in the script, and the re-shoots were pretty much standard polishing (i.e, not that long and not that many people called in).

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    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Steeplejack: Thanks!

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    Steeplejack says:


    Your images “are not publicly available.”

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    Adam L Silverman says:

    @gwangung: That was what I had seen reported as well. The initial speculation was it was in response to Deadpool, then the reporting shifted to the normal reshoots/additional shoots.

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    redshirt says:

    @Belafon: Yeah I read about that too. Major reshoots never sounds like good news but you never know.

    They should have gone for the “R” rating if they wanted to follow the Deadpool model. But nope. Even for material that practically begs for it.

    That said, everything about this movie, and the next DC movie, and the next DC movie after that sounds grim and dark and unsuccessful.

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    Miss Bianca says:

    @Adam L Silverman: wow. there’s a lot to unpack there.

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    Belafon says:

    @gwangung: I guess we’ll find out. I didn’t really care to see Dawn of Justice, but I do want to see Suicide Squad.

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    pseudonymous in nc says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Point taken. I’ll elaborate: the BR cops appear collectively to be acting with impunity, perhaps in part because they believe that the Sterling killing will not lead to criminal sanction. There is a non-criminal threshold for a police force to be deemed reckless, but as you rightly noted, stuff that ought to be deemed reckless has been baked into the criminal justice and law enforcement system.

    The mayor-president of Baton Rouge (oh, Louisiana and your quirky titles) is a black Democrat who has apparently been noticeable by his absence over the past week.

    So, who has the power to take down a fucked-up police force that believes it can act with collective impunity? Because it’s going to take somebody — a mayor, a governor — willing to put a police chief on leave and confront the reactionary echo chamber of police unions to change that culture. And I can see an opening for people willing to run for office on a platform of radically defunding cops, whose salaries represent a much larger chunk of municipal tax revenues than is often recognised.

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    redshirt says:

    @Steeplejack: That’s good to know. It was a bad link. I posted a correct link later. I can’t go back and edit the old, wrong link.

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    Steeplejack says:


    Sorry. The playwright is Sam Shepard. Guess I was going for “too subtle.”

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    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Miss Bianca: Your mission, should you chose to accept it…
    (also, this blog will trip on a house pet, lose its mustard, and as a result self destruct in fifteen seconds…)

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    gwangung says:

    @redshirt: If you ever read the Ostrander Suicide Squad, you know it lives up to the name. Grim and dark is part and parcel of the concept—along with a large sidehelping of gallows humor. Seriously….black ops, supervillains and thermite bombs implanted in operatives’ necks isn’t upbeat and light in any sense…

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    redshirt says:

    @Steeplejack: I’m lost now. Suffice it to say I laughed.

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    Anne Laurie says:

    @Mary G: Oh, Japanese foxes are extremely kewl!
    They’re companions to the Shinto gods and well-known trickster spirits. And just as Celtic mythology speaks of magical seals that throw off their skins and marry humans, and Russian myths speak of swan-maidens, in Japan it’s the foxes who transform into people (temporarily):

    …One of the oldest surviving kitsune tales provides a widely known folk etymology of the word kitsune. Unlike most tales of kitsune who become human and marry human males, this one does not end tragically:

    Ono, an inhabitant of Mino (says an ancient Japanese legend of A.D. 545), spent the seasons longing for his ideal of female beauty. He met her one evening on a vast moor and married her. Simultaneously with the birth of their son, Ono’s dog was delivered of a pup which as it grew up became more and more hostile to the lady of the moors. She begged her husband to kill it, but he refused. At last one day the dog attacked her so furiously that she lost courage, resumed vulpine shape, leaped over a fence and fled.

    “You may be a fox,” Ono called after her, “but you are the mother of my son and I love you. Come back when you please; you will always be welcome.”

    So every evening she stole back and slept in his arms.

    Because the fox returns to her husband each night as a woman but leaves each morning as a fox, she is called Kitsune. In classical Japanese, kitsu-ne means come and sleep, and ki-tsune means always comes.

    Gotta admit the foxes in that photo you linked look as though they’re ready to transform as soon as your back is turned!

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    Miss Bianca says:

    @Ruckus: Ah, *those* friends…when they die…who’ve left such a huge impression in life…yeah.

    My condolences.

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    Adam L Silverman says:

    @pseudonymous in nc: I understand your points. Louisiana has a law enforcement Bill of Rights equivalent and a newly signed hate crimes statute for attacks on law enforcement. Depending on how the union negotiated their contract with the City of Baton Rouge there is also likely to be additional protections as a result of the police contract. All of that, as well as the department’s official use of force/use of deadly force policies are going to drive the outcome. As will Federal civil rights law. Even if you have a mayor or governor or city council or police chief or all of the above that wants to make changes, first you have to get rid of the law officers BOR and the hate crimes statute, which is pointless as there are already charging increases for attacking a cop in Louisiana, and whatever’s in the Baton Rouge PD contract.

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    Miss Bianca says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Oh, great. What’s that ominous music I’m hearing over the coyotes yipping outside…?

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    Ruckus says:

    @Miss Bianca:
    There is but it is spot on. A problem all societies have is complex problems and simple (and usually wrong) political answers that as Adam states, keep compounding on each other. Lack of a clear problem set, leads to a lack of funding and lack of funding leads to a lack of understanding of both the limits and possibilities of solutions, which leads to whatever the problem is getting worse and then simple shit is thrown at the problem, which has gotten worse because of the above and voila, the problem still exists. It is a circle that can be broken but that takes people who want to solve problems, not make some group a scapegoat. Which describes conservatives to a tee. Whatever the problem there isn’t a group that they can’t blame, except themselves, because of them not wanting to actually govern.

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    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Anne Laurie: met her on a vast moor? He’s married to the Hound of the Baskervilles?

    Also, keep off the moors!

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    Miss Bianca says:

    @Anne Laurie: Just finished Kit Johnson’s “The Fox Woman” not too long ago, based on the kitsune legend. it was a bit slow, but still interesting.

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    Viva BrisVegas says:

    @pseudonymous in nc:

    Aussies joke that Kiwis are backwards backwoods types with an interest in sheep.

    The relationship between Australia and New Zealand is something analogous to the relationship between the US and Canada.

    A much larger neighbour makes fun of the things about a smaller country that actually make it a nicer place to live.

    On the Australian side we say all enzeders are sheep shaggers who are all related. While they say we are violent, booze addled morons.

    All in fun. Although they do talk funny.

    For enzed (or unzud) humour, I always enjoyed Footrot Flats.

    As for them being the same place, they really aren’t. They’re separated by a body of water not that much narrower than the Atlantic Ocean.

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    Anne Laurie says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I think it actually holds up pretty well and he did a pretty decent job.

    And I’ll always cherish the scene where Frodo laments, “Why should we even bother? You know there’s no hope!”

    To which Aragorn (John Hurt) replies, “Then we must live without hope — there is always vengeance.”

    A man after my Celtic heart…

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    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Anne Laurie: A well turned phrase that one is.

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    Elizabelle says:

    @Ruckus: Interesting guy. I am sorry for your loss. It’s hard when friends of longstanding are gone.

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    redshirt says:

    @Anne Laurie: What a mythology you have!

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    Brachiator says:


    They should have gone for the “R” rating if they wanted to follow the Deadpool model. But nope. Even for material that practically begs for it.

    I disagree, even though I really enjoyed Deadpool. Some comic book fans are insisting that the movies must be just for them, not for a wider range of movie goers, and it may result in severe blowback. There are already idiots who insist that the 3 hour Batman v Superman is the original movie simply because it is longer and gives them more time to wallow in their favorite characters. But the longer version is still an incoherent mess.

    That said, everything about this movie, and the next DC movie, and the next DC movie after that sounds grim and dark and unsuccessful.

    There is nothing wrong with grim and dark if the story requires it. And even grim and dark can be fun, even humorous in places. But despite past success, and some great animated series to draw from, DC seems determined to let the modestly talented Mr Snyder drag them down. Worse, even the DC tv shows are starting to falter. This last season of Arrow was sad, repetitive and boring. Flash was much better overall, but the Zoom story undermined the bright and optimistic tone at the heart of the series. The promise to build the next season of the Flash around the Flashpoint comic saga could be a huge mistake. No surprise that comics nerds are delirious over this development.

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    rikyrah says:

    Sorry for your loss.

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    Brachiator says:

    @Ruckus: Condolences on the passing of your friend. He really sounds like a great guy who touched many lives.

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    sm*t cl*de says:

    @Viva BrisVegas:

    On the Australian side we say all enzeders are sheep shaggers who are all related.

    Hey, McLeod, get off of my ewe!

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    @Ruckus: I’m so sorry for your loss, but I’m glad you had someone so wonderful in your life for the time you had him. Sounds like he left the world a little better than he found it. If only we could all say that.

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    J R in WV says:


    So sorry to hear that… condolences.

    That’s the last hardest most important favor we do for our critters, ending their pain and suffering that they are not going to heal from. You did the right thing. As hard as it is, it was the right thing.

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    LanceThruster says:

    I hope the foxes can find a non-threatened food source. They need to eat too.

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    J R in WV says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    As you mention law enforcement crime labs, how many of those have been found to be fabricating “evidence” to convict people in cases where there was no legitimate evidence against the defendants at all. From WV state crime labs to the FBI’s hair and bite mark testimony.

    Tragic crime being committed against poor citizens who can’t afford a lawyer.

    One guy got fired from the WV State Police crime lab, for fabricating evidence, went to OK and TX and did the same thing there. Finally nearly convicted of a crime in WV and died of some kind of cancer. Grrrr.

    A few convicts went free, a couple of retrials. Hundreds of cases with bogus phony “crime lab” data, drugs not really tested, on and on. Fred… I can’t remember his last name.

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