I spent last week in the UK (near Birmingham). Unlike Megan McArdle, I didn’t meet anyone who was in favor of Brexit. More than one person I talked to said that the anti-EU insanity of the Murdoch tabloids was probably the main reason Brexit fever ever got going.
Murdoch media has reshaped American politics too. I doubt a candidacy like Trump’s would have been possible without the rise of Fox and right-wing radio. I don’t know how much of this rise is attributable to Murdoch and his companies. I realize that there’s a lot of anger here and in the UK over decades of stagnant wages and a poor recovery from the Great Recession. But that anger could have gone in lots of different directions, it didn’t have to end up directed at immigrants and big gubmint.
It’s not a coincidence that younger people in the US vote overwhelmingly for candidates on the left while older people vote overwhelmingly for candidates on the right. I have to believe that they get their news from very different mediums and communicate about politics with each other using very different mediums.
Anyway, this is a good question:
In the shorter term, Murdoch finds himself content to mess with the longest comity Europe has found in a millennium. We can debate what he really thinks about the value of the new Europe, just as we can wonder about his true thoughts on a warming world. In fact, though, it doesn’t matter. It’s all just collateral impact, to the larger sport of affirming his own interests, political and business, at the highest levels of world governance. If it takes playing to the uninformed with populist doggerel, so be it.
Could the work of terrorism be nearly as effective at wounding Western nations as these men who claim to love their nations so dearly have done?
Loviatar
I once got into an argument with a young lady over the role of the press in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. She kept insisting that the press had no power, I kept insisting that yes they did, what and how they chose to report various stories all constituted power. Writ large, Rupert Murdoch proves that theory.
Lead stories right now on cable news:
– MSNBC: Baton Rouge cops caught on tape killing a black man under restraint / protest
– CNN: Baton Rouge cops caught on tape killing a black man under restraint / protest
– Fox: Random white student killed in Rome by homeless person
debbie
I still think voting against the EU was a scapegoat for Austerity.
Aimai
Very well said, Doug!
Aimai
@debbie: Only if you ignore everything the leave voters were saying.
Hillary Rettig
Yesterday we drove through southern Ohio, and the amount of visible Trump support (not to mention, Confederate flags) was more than expected and really scary. We came away feeling like he could win.
Hillary Rettig
@debbie: YES.
JPL
Could the work of terrorism be nearly as effective at wounding Western nations as these men who claim to love their nations so dearly have done?
Is this a trick question?
amk
@debbie: Nope. You should read up on what fucking farage and dick johnson actually campaigned on. And then left the stupid voters with their shitbags.
JPL
OT.. Sanders was asked when he was going to endorse Clinton during a democratic meeting this morning. I guess he’s not. He did say this though
GregB
Flags and signs don’t vote. If so Ron Paul would be President and Peggy Noonam’s predictions of a Romney win would have come true because she saw more Romney signs thsn Obama signs.
Belafon
@JPL: I would love his views on how you can transform America without winning elections.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
The two Brits I spoke quite a bit with this weekend, although expats, are completely conflicted, as are their family members back home. There’s a deep resentment about policies that affect them coming from an unelected group of elites who make decisions in Brussels, coupled with unchecked immigration straining diminishing resources as a result of austerity. The immigration backlash seems to be the most visible manifestation of the overall frustration with the sense of powerlessness.
Belafon
OT: Yesterday, I had to put my dog Caramel to sleep. I posted this diary about it at Daily Kos, http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/07/05/1545406/-My-Tears-for-My-Wonderful-Dog-Caramel. I wanted to share this with you. I’m hoping it’ll help with my tears.
Belafon
OT: Yesterday, I had to put my dog Caramel to sleep. I posted this diary about her at Daily Kos. I wanted to share this with you. I’m hoping it’ll help with my tears.
patrick II
But who puts it in the populist mind that the results of Cameron’s Austerity are really the results of being in the EU? How was the lie 350,000,000 pounds per week back for the National Health Service allowed to stand? In America, who is put it in the populist mind that the falling wages of the middle class are because we give blacks too much welfare? What three countries have the most populist distrust of scientists and Global Climate Change? (answer: Australia, U.S.A. and England, all homes to Murdoch news outlets).
If democracy is dependent on an informed populace, than Murdoch, with his lies and psychopathic self interest, is a cancer on democracy.
sigaba
@Belafon: I don’t think Rupert Murdoch ever won an election but he has unequivocally changed America.
But this is Bernie we’re talking about; he doesn’t really believe in elections anyways.
schrodinger's cat
@JPL: If Trump wins, America will be unrecognizable. Mission accomplished for St. Bed Head.
Gin & Tonic
@JPL: Sanders has demonstrated that he wishes to be irrelevant in the 2016 election. He’s well on his way to achieving that goal.
amk
@Hillary Rettig: NOPE.
Hoodie
@patrick II: I think that was what was implied by using the term “scapegoat.” The scapegoat typically isn’t the source of the problem. The EU was scapegoated, while the real culprit was Cameron and the Tories who, by the way, were heavily supported by Murdoch. The idiotic referendum was Cameron pandering to Murdoch’s audience.
JPL
@Belafon: It takes time and although you will grieve now, it will get better. Sorry Belafon.
schrodinger's cat
@Belafon: {{{ }}} That must be tough.
SiubhanDuinne
@Belafon:
That’s a beautiful tribute to a beautiful dog. Thank you for sharing Caramel’s story.
{{{{{hugs}}}}}
Mike in NC
@Belafon: Condolences
Shell
@Belafon: I am so sorry
dmsilev
@Belafon: Well, a Trump win and an accompanying GOP sweep of both the Federal and most of the state governments would certainly transform America.
In the same way that a set of demolition charges transform a building into a pile of rubble.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@JPL:
That’s not egomaniacal at all, coming from a lifelong backbencher. Who’s going to lead gramps home?
Belafon
@debbie: Only in the way that voting for Trump is about government spending.
SFAW
@Belafon:
I’m so sorry. She was a beautiful girl.
Mike in NC
Currently reading “To Hell and Back” by Ian Kershaw, a history of Europe in the 20th Century which covers in great detail the rise of fascism in the 1920s and 30s. Make no mistake about it, Murdoch and Trump and the very definition of fascists.
Read a pathetic story recently of an elderly woman in Pennsylvania who sincerely believes that Trump will magically reopen hundreds of closed factories in this country by launching trade wars with places like China and Mexico. Uh, no, that will crash the economy. Does Trump think putting Walmart out of business will work?
SFAW
In a perfect world, Rupert Murdoch would be tried and convicted of Crimes Against Humanity. Roger Ailes, too.
On the plus side, if JPL’s read of Sanders (re: endorsement) is accurate, at least we have One Pure Man We Can Elect, and he will Fix Everything, because it’s a Revolution, powered by unicorn laughter (and the rainbows that shoot out of their asses).
catclub
Which nation?
I think Rupert Murdoch has never claimed to love any nation. He left Australia, moved to England, became a US citizen ( as far as I can tell)
by jumping the queue with lots of money.
Paul in KY
@JPL: He doesn’t seem to understand how these things work…
Paul in KY
@Belafon: My condolences, Belafon. Wonderful dog you had there.
Paul in KY
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: ‘Meester Sanders! You don’t have a day pass!!!’
SFAW
@dmsilev:
Out of which, Norman Lloyd will rise, ready to save us all! (At least, I think it was he.)
Amir Khalid
@JPL:
Bernie always changes the subject when you ask about that, doesn’t he? I’ve been half-expecting that he will ultimately refuse to endorse Hilary. Not because he still thinks he has a viable campaign, which of course he doesn’t; not because he’s pursuing any ideological goal; not because he wants to transform America, whatever that means; but because he has a grudge against her for opposing him. Like his support for Debbie Wasserman-Schulz’s primary opponent. Wasserman-Schulz can’t touch him anymore now, and she’s out as DNC chair in a few months; but Bernie wants her out of Congress all the same.
Luthe
Murdoch reminds me more and more of that Bond villain who was orchestrating a war to boost his ratings.
ETA: Or William Randolph Hearst and the Spanish-American War.
JPL
@Paul in KY: He doesn’t care.
jeffreyw
@Belafon: It’s tough to do. We’ve gone through the same thing twice this year. Hugs.
scott (the other one)
@JPL:
Which you do by winning elections, you rancid fucknut.
JPL
@scott (the other one): He does have a lot in common with Murdoch, so maybe I was to quick to put OT in front of the comment.
trollhattan
Q: is it wrong to wish that Jerry Hall smothers Rupert with a pillow in his sleep?
A: of course not. Awake is okay, too.
Paul in KY
@trollhattan: Doesn’t even have to use a pillow. Could push him out a penthouse window or off a balcony.
Poison, also. Too.
patrick II
@Hoodie:
You are right about the “scapegoat”, but the “I still think” part of the comment read to me as disagreement with the Doug’s premise of Murdoch’s culpability. But I probably read too much into that part. Talking about Murdoch does that to me.
nonynony
@JPL:
Head*Desk. Head*Desk. Head*Desk. Head*Desk.
I mean, I don’t regret this vote nearly as much as I do the vote for Nader I cast in 1996 (which did no harm at the time but was still a pointless act of juvenile stupidity by a dumb 20-something), but I do regret voting for him in the primary. I always vote for the left-most candidate in a primary but I thought every candidate kind of had the tacit assumption that their goal was to win elections so they can enact change. If you’re a candidate for political office and you don’t have a basic goal of “winning elections” then you’re useless. And if you’re a politician who doesn’t think that change can be enacted through political process then get out and let someone in who does.
I actually don’t believe that Sanders really believes this either – and that’s the worst part of it. Of course he wanted to win that election. Of course he knows that elections are important. But right now he’s telling he’s telling a new generation of 20-somethings that elections don’t matter for enacting social change. If there’s one goddamn lesson liberals should learn from the disaster of 1968 and the collapse of the Democratic party that followed right into Reagan it’s that elections DO MATTER, and that if you set yourself aside as too pure for politics, the opposition will come in, take what they want, shut you out, and prevent anything you think is important.
Matt McIrvin
@Hillary Rettig: If you drove through my town looking at yard signs you’d think Trump is winning Massachusetts. He’s not, by a long shot.
schrodinger's cat
@jeffreyw: Two? I knew about one of your dogs, who else? BTW I loved your photo of Homer and Katie in bed.
Matt McIrvin
@Luthe: I’m pretty sure that Bond villain was directly inspired by Murdoch.
maurinsky
@JPL:
Jeebus Hussein Christ, if your goal isn’t to win elections, get out of the fucking race!
/had it with Bernie “BS” Sanders
low-tech cyclist
OK, now that BoJo and Farage have walked away from the whole thing, is there still a reason why Parliament would bother to ratify Brexit? I’d expect them to walk away from it too. Why should they make it happen if BoJo and Farage can’t be arsed to do so?
ThresherK
@JPL:
Not enough he’s succeeded in that goal for himself. Does he have to work so hard to help Dems “succeed” at it, too?
dogwood
@Matt McIrvin:
Urban voters don’t have yards. And rural democrats know better than to put up democratic yards signs. Too big of a risk of property damage.
jeffreyw
@schrodinger’s cat: Yes, we lost our little boy, Jack. This one was tough for me, and I’m a little choked up still.
schrodinger's cat
@jeffreyw: {{{ }}} Jack was beautiful. Thanks for sharing his photos. So right now its Katie and the kittehs?
Amir Khalid
@low-tech cyclist:
Regardless of what BoJo and NIgel Farage do, the vote for Brexit has led to Scotland threatening to leave Britain rather than leave the EU. Cameron could have (and should have, I believe) said Brexit wasn’t worth the very real danger of Britain breaking up and refused to begin the Brexit process. That might end his political career but it would save Britain as a unified nation. If I were in his shoes, and saw myself as a Briton first and a Tory politician second, I might consider that a worthwhile sacrifice.
rikyrah
The moment of no return was the defense of Caribou Barbie.
When the GOP’ers sat up there and defended that nitwit to be a heartbeat away from the Presidency of the United States…
that completely paved the way for Trump.
rikyrah
@jeffreyw:
Sorry for your loss :(
rikyrah
@Hillary Rettig:
Isn’t that near, Kentucky? and, if so, doesn’t that explain itself?
rikyrah
@Belafon:
Sorry for you loss too. I know that must have been hard for you. :(
negative 1
I’m not so sure that Murdoch or the ‘different ways in which we consume media’ are to blame for why the olds vote right and the yoot vote left. After all, today’s Trump voters are demographically the same folks who were anti-Vietnam peaceniks voting left in the 60’s.
Blame media or Murdoch but messages only resonate with willing recipients. “I realize that there’s a lot of anger here and in the UK over decades of stagnant wages and a poor recovery from the Great Recession. But that anger could have gone in lots of different directions, it didn’t have to end up directed at immigrants and big gubmint.” — then at whom should it have been directed? I think corporations are soulless, but as they don’t even pretend to care about anything above profit, and admit such, I’m not sure why they should be expected to keep jobs where they are when they can exploit globalization to use labor that costs less than $8 per day. A failure to stop that seems a failure of government policy.
catclub
@rikyrah: Yeah, the votes in Ohio are in Cincinnati and Cleveland, not out in the countryside. Ithaca NY is a blue dot in a sea of red in upstate NY, but NY is a blue state.
catclub
@nonynony:
Or, how about, hold back the GOP from making things worse for people who cannot defend themselves.
jeffreyw
@schrodinger’s cat: Katie is enjoying her daily walks and she gets along with all the kittehs. Mrs J is actively looking for a companion for her (and for herself).
SenyorDave
I’ve always thought that Rupert Murdoch personifies the evil a rich, powerful person can do. The first I heard of him was when he was cozying up to the Chinese in the 1990’s and had this to say about the Dalai Lama. “I have heard cynics who say he is a very political old monk shuffling around in Gucci shoes”. I have no doubt in my mind that Murdoch would have been cozying up to Hitler in the 1930’s with similar remarks about Jews. Murdoch’s money and power combined with a complete lack of morals are a truly dangerous combination.
I look at billionaires like Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, Richard Branson who at least try to do some good in the world with large parts of their fortune and it is inspiring. But they are counterbalanced by POSs like Murdoch, T Boone Pickens, Carl Icahn, the Koch brothers who seem to be using their fortune to make the world a worse place.
Raven Onthill
Both the UK and the USA let the old anti-fascist media laws go. Bad mistake.
The Chilcot report on UK involvement in the Iraqi war is out and it is damning. New Labour may be toast, and this at a time when any anti Brexit voices would be welcome and the disgusting Theresa May looks to become Prime Monster, er, Minister. (Auto correct helped.)
Brachiator
@Belafon: Condolences on the loss of your sweet Caramel.
Aardvark Cheeselog
@OP:
Do you? On the basis of what evidence? You and I may be pissed off about how the owners have hoovered up 98 cents out of every dollar of economic growth for the last 40 years, but we seem to be a minority. A really small one.
“Angry voters” seems to be the story the MSM is telling itself to explain Trump, but that’s just because they’ll grasp at any straw to avoid noticing the shall we say moral asymmetry of the two major US political parties, only one of which is utterly bankrupt as a vehicle for representative government.
Sloane Ranger
In all fairness Boris didn’t so much walk away as get knifed by the man who had been his shadow throughout the Brexit campaign and who the entire media said would be his campaign manager for the Tory leadership. Once he had twisted the knife and totally destroyed BoJo he threw his own hat into the ring so there is a prominent Brexiteer standing for Tory Leader.
Panorama did a programme recently letting those who voted Leave explain why in their own words. They gave a variety of reasons such as
– immigrants are undercutting pay and taking housing away from native born
– for years the elites have ignored our problems well stick this where the sun don’t shine!
– the EU isn’t the boss of us.
– They are insufficiently grateful for us saving them during WWII
– the country has changed since I were young. I want things back the way they used to be.
– manufacturing has disappeared since we joined the EU so it will come back once we leave.
A history graduate who voted Leave gave his reason as history indicates that customs unions either end up as political unions or collapse entirely. He didn’t want the UK to be part of a European super state and wanted us out before a collapse if it was the latter.
Basically a mixed bag of different angers and frustrations, some nostalgia and our national obsession with our Finest Hour!
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Raven Onthill:
I was listening to some of Tony Blair’s response on my way into work, and to say he sounded defensive and in denial is to use a bit of British understatement. The BBC had on a former minister who, also in British understatement, basically said that the report does not say what Tony Blair thinks it says.
CONGRATULATIONS!
@Belafon: Nothing does. July 02, 2006. September 04, 2013. I don’t even have to think about the dates, I know them by the scars on my heart. My cat Britt, my dog Hannah. We have a Golden pup now, almost six months, and he’s a 24/7 ball of mayhem and sweetness and he takes almost all my time, but damn, you do not forget who came before. And you never will.
A good percentage of the dying claim that relatives appear to them. If there’s a kind God who wants to ease my transition out of this world, forget my fucking relatives – I wanna see my animals and go with them.
aimai
@JPL: Fuck him. But we saw this coming. Bernie is the sorest sore loser of all time.
Calouste
@JPL
, Senator Sanders said, as he put the paperwork for the 2018 Senate elections in the mail.
Mnemosyne
@nonynony:
THIS. All of it. Anyone who looks at the events of the last 30 years, with nutty Christianists taking over the Republican Party from the bottom up, and still doesn’t understand that we need to WIN ELECTIONS in order to implement our programs is never going to get it.
Outside pressure groups only succeed when politicians on the INSIDE are willing to pass the laws those pressure groups want.
amk
@Sloane Ranger: Yup, boris the dick, is a poor judge of politics and people.
Miss Bianca
@Sloane Ranger:
and all of it based on bullshit, or so it appears from this side of the ocean. I have mentioned on this forum that I am in correspondence with an elderly English gentleman who seems convinced that if Brexit is delayed, all of Britain – or what’s left of it – will be groaning under Sharia Law. I am still speechless when I contemplate how in the world he managed to get to *that* point. Apparently the thrice-damned Murdoch and his rags had something to do with it.
Miss Bianca
@Belafon: @jeffreyw: condolences to you both on losing your beloved dogs. : (
Mnemosyne
@Belafon:
I’m so sorry. She sounds like a very sweet dog.
Elizabelle
@Belafon: what a beautiful dog. She had a good life w you and your family
They don’t live long enough.
Sloane Ranger
@Miss Bianca: Yep and yep. Not just Murdoch though, Sharia law and radicalisation of youth in Muslim religious schools are a staple of all the tabloid press and certain Tory backbenchers.
Paul in KY
@low-tech cyclist: There would be political consequences on Tory side for current MPs, I assume.
Sure hope they exercise their discretion & don’t do anything.
Paul in KY
@catclub: Columbus/Toledo more than Cincinnati, although there are many fine Democrats down in the Queen City.
Paul in KY
@Aardvark Cheeselog: The rich have done a great job of scaring poor people & of course, giving them convenient scapegoats.
We (the non-rich) actually have all the power right now. Get in the right people & we can do just about anything.
In the Middle Ages, you had to worry about Duke Peese de Shit getting angry, etc. Now, they can be outvoted.
Miss Bianca
@Sloane Ranger: Well, great. Nice (?) to see that the US is not alone in its knee-jerk anti-Islamic prejudice. Ugh.
Mike in NC
@CONGRATULATIONS!:
Amen to that sentiment.
Belafon
@jeffreyw: So sorry to hear that.
Luthe
@Matt McIrvin: Of all the things to have done in this vale of tears, ‘inspiring a Bond villain’ is not really something one wants on one’s resume.
Matt McIrvin
@negative 1:
Is that true? Nixon got 48 percent of young voters in 1972, after the voting age came down. The Boomers were, on the whole, never quite as far left as they were portrayed as being; the hippies were a minority.
Matt McIrvin
@Miss Bianca: If anything, it’s worse in Western Europe.
Unknown known (formerly known as Ecks, former formerly completely unknown)
@Aimai: Maybe.
Here’s a UK based academic arguing that it might be a combination of the crappy image of the EU that the media fostered and a pretty inept leave campaign, setting the scene for economic distress to spill into support for Brexit in a few different ways.
Unknown known (formerly known as Ecks, former formerly completely unknown)
@Unknown known (formerly known as Ecks, former formerly completely unknown): BTW, disclosure: I know this guy pretty well
Nicole
For what it’s worth, I think the larger number of Trump signs may also be due to the likely circumstance that Trump supporters don’t worry about Hillary supporters keying their cars or egging their porches or other things Trump supporters might do if I, for example, put Hillary signs in my yard. If I had a yard, which I don’t.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Nicole:
I think this too – also watching the effects of the Sanders mob in caucuses, rallies, etc. Us Hillary supporters don’t show signs, but I’m convinced we’ll show up when it counts at the ballot box.
Barry
@negative 1: “After all, today’s Trump voters are demographically the same folks who were anti-Vietnam peaceniks voting left in the 60’s.”
Why do people persist in this idea?
satby
@Belafon: Deepest condolences Belafon! It’s so hard to lose them, but giving Caramel a life of love was heaven for her. Hoping that comforts you as you grieve.
satby
@jeffreyw: oh, Jeffrey, so sorry about Jack. You clearly have him a happy life knowing how much he was loved. It’s all they ask of us. Condolences, and may your good boy RIP.
Jojin
All of the energy funneled into producing sarcastic and snarky comments here could best be spent in more productive ways. You have a point but then lose ypur message in baseness of tone and in joy of attack. The best way to create change is not to emulate the tactics of the oppressor ….