Late Night Crankypants Open Thread: Bernie, How Can We Miss You If You Won’t Go Away?

sanders dance of the seven veils toles

(Tom Toles via GoComics.com)
.

The Washington Post informs us that Sanders has “put his stamp” on the DNC platform draft…

The draft policy rubric approved early Saturday is evidence of the sway Sanders holds after a bruising primary that technically has not ended. The language would move the Democratic Party to the left on issues ranging from wages to banking reform to climate change, and represents several concessions by presumptive nominee Hillary Clinton to her persistent primary rival.

Fourteen out of 15 members of a party drafting committee, including four chosen by Sanders, approved the draft document. Cornel West, an academic and activist named to the panel by Sanders, abstained. The draft document now goes to the larger platform committee for a vote next month.

Sanders plans to ask for further changes to the platform then, most likely prolonging the awkward status quo: He has lost but has not yet conceded defeat or endorsed Clinton. He said Friday he would endorse Clinton when he hears her say “the things that need to be said.”

“I don’t want to do anything as he ends his term to undercut the president of the United States,” [committe chair Rep. Elijah] Cummings said during the negotiation Friday.

West replied that the responsibilities of citizenship should transcend loyalty to the president…

Reacting to the committee’s progress Friday, before the draft was approved, Sanders pledged to ensure his views are reflected even if that means contesting party orthodoxy on the floor of the convention…

That’s the same way my neurotic little rescue dog attempts to “put his stamp” on the world — by pissing on anything he can’t see as immediately useful to himself. (Anyone want to poll President Obama’s approval rating among Democratic voters, as opposed to that of Senator Sanders? Anyone want to poll what percentage of those voters have even heard of Professor Cornell West?) Silly old git is hooked on his own grift, and of course the Media Village Idiots love the chance to fly their favorite Dems in Disarray flag again:

(CNN)Bernie Sanders said Friday he will likely vote for Hillary Clinton for president in November, the strongest expression of support yet from the Vermont senator, but he left the door open that he could change his mind…

“My job right now as a candidate is to fight to make sure that the Democratic Party not only has the most progressive platform in the history of the Democratic Party, but that that platform is actually implemented by elected officials,” Sanders said on CNN.

He also declined to say whether the time will come that he fully endorses Clinton, saying he is waiting to see what she says about his priorities. He also would not say explicitly, when pressed by Cuomo, that she won the nomination fairly…

Thursday night:


A defiant Bernie Sanders is urging his supporters to continue his fight against the Democratic establishment, as the Vermont senator continues his quest to overhaul the party he only recently began associating with.

Ignoring calls to formally suspend his presidential campaign and back presumptive nominee Hillary Clinton, Sanders is hoping to encourage a new wave of progressives to join Democrats’ ranks and cement his key proposals into the party’s platform.

Speaking to supporters in New York City on Thursday in an address titled “Where We Go From Here,” Sanders outlined several key concessions he intends to extract from Democrats at the convention next month….

Yes, yes, we get it, you’ve told us often enough: The Senator is a proud and sensitive man, almost as touchy as his noisiest supporters, and he needs to be gently detoxed. Can somebody get us a date certain?

Ed Kilgore, in NYMag:

The more Sanders dances around these obvious questions, the more he will, of course, be asked them. So here’s some unsolicited advice: (1) Come up with a formulation for your attitude toward Clinton’s candidacy and stick to it robotically (ask your Senate colleague Marco Rubio for advice on how to do that, if you find this difficult); and (2) either develop a clear list of demands you are making in exchange for your endorsement, and don’t keep changing it, or avoid specifics altogether and talk vaguely about a “revolution.”

Without question, Bernie Sanders is in a difficult position. The whole world knows he will eventually have to support Clinton; the longer he delays supporting her, the more enthusiastic he will have to be, and the longer the path from here to there becomes. Being publicly churlish about Clinton does not increase his actual leverage, but it does embolden the Bernie or Bust faction of his supporters who may be hoping he’ll stay neutral or get behind Jill Stein…






147 replies
  1. 1
    Bobby Thomson says:

    Is he still in the news? He’s a tool, but irrelevant. He showed up at the sit-in just for a five minute photo op and split, lest he annoy one of his most crucial constituencies. He was a no-show at Pride. He has a very limited skill set, no deep knowledge of politics beyond a few demagogic bumper stickers, voters who have already moved on, and a staff that is hastily updating their resumes.

    At this point he’s so pathetic it’s not even worth getting upset.

  2. 2
    The Ancient Randonneur says:

    I did not know Cornel West was a Democrat.

  3. 3
    TheMightyTrowel says:

    Here’s a small OT rant that has nothing to do with (US) politics… Australian govt just put in a whole list of new activities and individuals which are now covered by rules around working with vulnerable people. My university has responded to this by deciding that all faculty members must have a Working With Vulnerable People clearance since some of our students are 17 and others fall into categories considered ‘vulnerable’ (Indigenous people, people with mental or physical disabilities, etc.) and if we, e.g., take a field trip to a local museum without WWVP certification and the group includes a minor or legally vulnerable person and SOMETHING happens the uni will be on the hook for it. Fair enough. They’ve also offered to pay for it (it’s a small amount for me, but big for a phd student – and if phds want to tutor, they’ll have to get certified too), but only if we turn in the filled in form*, 2 passport photos, 3 forms of ID (and first born child?) at 9am tomorrow. They just emailed this out at 3.45pm today. WTF. ASSHOLES.

    *form is a typically shitty govt department invented ‘fillable’ adobe pdf which is equal parts evil, intransigent and broken

    ETA: to clarify, this is Australia – and regional Australia at that – everything (and I mean everything except the 1 big supermarket and 2 bars) closes at 5pm on a weekday.

  4. 4
    AnotherBruce says:

    I almost hate to give Bernie any burn. He’s well past his due date, but it’s amusing to this old man how many of his supporters just hate Hillary and love Bernie. It’s probably just the ones on the internet, but by god their feelings are being hurt by us Hillary supporters. I try to remind them that their feelings are inconsequential. They are hiring someone for the most important job in the world and that actually requires thinking and not so much emotion. And it doesn’t require much thought to know that a genuine fascist is incredibly close to winning an election to be the leader of the nation with the strongest and most armed military in the world by a huge margins. The Bernie supporters (again probably a minority of them) don’t have enough Goddamn sense to realize how dangerous every vote for Trump and non vote for Hillary is. They’re white, and young or naive enough not to understand just how bad real fascism is. If Trump gets elected, I guarantee that the U.S. will never recover from this. And I will spend the rest of my life beating the fuck out of their emotions.

  5. 5
    amk says:

    Are the fools still sending him money? I don’t see any other reason.

  6. 6
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    Who?

    Seriously.

    I mean – seriously.

    The guy is irrelevant.

    I’m looking at the top 5 read stories on WaPo and the top 10 stories in NYT and they’re not about him.

    The worst thing you can do to this guy is to ignore him.

  7. 7
    Amir Khalid says:

    Bernie shouldn’t have waited as long as he has to concede a primary he’d already lost and endorse Hillary. All that’s done is fritter away his bargaining power. His reluctance is signalling to his support that he’s somehow still in contention, and they should hold off on supporting her. They’ll wind up all the more frustrated when he does finally concede, and all the more likely to vote for Jill Stein or that libertarian guy.

    I can’t quite see a newbie Democrat like Bernie bringing about wholesale changes to the institutional Democratic party at the convention. Things just don’t work that way with well-established institutions. And if he can’t bring a good chunk of his voters over to her, as he’s been hinting, he can’t expect anything in return for them. And it seems to me unlikely that the convention will be sympathetic to a losing candidate whose recent actions had the effect of undermining, however slightly, the primary winner.

  8. 8
    Lyrebird says:

    @TheMightyTrowel: Wow, I thought our (US, mid-Atlantic) state regs for that were annoying, but at least there was a 4-month window to come into compliance! All college instructors who might ever have an under-18-y-o student enrolled in their classes need to have police clearances now. Probably bc of the debacle involving state university administrators & powerful football coaches turning a blind eye to an absolutely awful situation. Don’t need visa photos here, but you do have to go to a designated fingerprinting location, open every other day, only for part of the day, etc.

    Best wishes with your paperwork.

  9. 9
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    Bernie, you’re drunk; go home.

  10. 10
    Amir Khalid says:

    @AnotherBruce:
    Try pointing out, as I have in these threads, that the presidency is an executive job, for which Bernie is not well-prepared. I once got this reply from a Bernista: “I don’t know what you’re talking about.”

  11. 11
    amk says:

    Wasn’t there a recent poll that said now only less than 10% of berners might vote for deadbeat donnie? Does bs even know what bargaining even means? Corbyn seems to be limey bs.

  12. 12
    Mary G says:

    Most of Bernie’s supporters have already moved on. Professor West is trolling himself now.

  13. 13
    AnotherBruce says:

    @Amir Khalid: I think you were talking about actually putting policies and plans into action. Bernie had (some) good ideas, with no clue as to how to put them into effect. Bernie is like Trump in this regard. Both men want to delegate their duties to others.

    Now that I think about it, I’m guessing that most Americans don’t really understand what an executive does.

  14. 14
    Amir Khalid says:

    @AnotherBruce:
    Many executives also don’t really understand what an executive does. For example, Carly Fiorina.

  15. 15
    Jonathan Holland Becnel says:

    Clinton surrogates on the DNC platform committee voted against putting language in specifying for a 15$ minimum wage, the rejection of TTP, and few other progressive planks.

    Ralston got fired from his gig on PBS for lying about Nevada.

    These facts don’t fit the narrative of Bernie being Mr old cranky pants and his loony supporters so you and the rest of the media ignore them.

    The fact that you’re retweeting Ralstons comments on Sanders is unbelievable.

    Yes, yes, You’re gonna tell me to fuck off/ur a troll/ et cetera, I get it. How can people possibly not understand that Clinton is the best thing to happen to the Democratic Party?!

  16. 16
    AnotherBruce says:

    @Amir Khalid: Which is really why Clinton is the best person for the job. She’s a huge wonk. For many people that sounds like a pejorative term. But wonks are patient, and they get shit done. Leaving aside the politics, (which you really can’t) neither Trump or Sanders are wonky enough to do the job at the oval office. They would trust others to do the job they need to do. Indeed, they probably wouldn’t even know what they need to do, and they would get burned by that.

  17. 17
    Amir Khalid says:

    @AnotherBruce:
    She’s a policy wonk, she understands what an executive does, she’s learned to be an effective politician and diplomat. You need all those things in your skill set to be a good president. She was the only candidate this cycle who could claim all these skills.

    @Jonathan Holland Becnel:
    Bernie has spent most of this month dithering, still at least half-believing that President Bernie is going to happen, when what he needs to do is accept the situation and work to gain yards towards his stated progressive goals.

  18. 18
    Calouste says:

    @amk: Corbyn has announced a new shadow cabinet while at the same time people are still resigning from it. As much attached to reality and his own ego as the charlatan from Burlington.

  19. 19
    TheMightyTrowel says:

    @Lyrebird: The best bit is that I might need to do this again because apparently the process is state by state not federal and some states don’t recognise other states’ certifications. What that means is that if you’re running an overnight trip (e.g. an archaeological field school like the one I run several states away from where I live) out of state from your uni, you might need a certification from every state where you spend the night en route and during the field school. I don’t have details yet, my dept head just told me he’s looking into this. SIGH.

  20. 20
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Calouste:
    When he was elected Labour leader, i did wonder if Jeremy Corbyn was a British analogue of Bernie Sanders. And there were Bernistas in America who expressed that very hope: that they were the beginning of a progressive wave in politics.,

  21. 21
    Jeff Spender says:

    A lot of my friends that were giving Bernie the benefit of the doubt have all but moved on now because of the ways that his remaining supporters have conducted themselves re: the lawsuit ls against the DNC based on Guccifer and how unreachable they are in terms of having actual conversations about the issues and the claims that they’re making.

    Pointing out facts, for instance, is “condescending.” Not agreeing with their labyrinthine dead-end logic about how the vote was rigged is seen as a core betrayal. Exercising independent judgment that goes against the groupthink, or merely even asking questions, is anethema.

    They have no respect for the process, so when they try to steamroll everything and everyone else and meet resistance they spin that as the “establishment” forcing thing down their throat. They don’t understand the rules, so they assume the entire process was designed to lock them out.

    I saw recenty claims that some Sanders DNC delegates were claiming their credentials got stripped and were being blocked from attending. The credulous bought the story unquestionably and used it as “proof” that the DNC was corrupt and stealing the win from Sanders. It dovetails perfectly with the stories I saw in Bernie groups where they didn’t understand that the reason that some candidates to be Sanders DNC delegates were removed from the running was because Sanders’ campaign requested they be stricken, not that the DNC was calluding to keep them out.

    I just can’t take this movement seriously.

  22. 22
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Bobby Thomson: Agreed. Perhaps it’s best that we just ignore him. The primaries are over and he lost. Nothing more to see here, folks.

  23. 23
    Kathleen says:

    He said Friday he would endorse Clinton when he hears her say “the things that need to be said.”

    Such as, “Bernie, can I make you a sandwich?”

    Also, too, Hillary is in Cincinnati today with Senator Warren. She is speaking about the economy at Union Terminal, which I really can “see from my house”, but I have to work today so I can’t go. Waaaah.

    Cincinnati’s mayor held a fund raiser for her at his home in Hyde Park last night.

  24. 24
    Calouste says:

    @Amir Khalid: Turns out that Sanders and Corbyn are more alike then I thought. Both don’t know when to quit. I can see Corbyn being kicked out soon though.

    On the other side, Boris the clown is now saying that EU citizens in the UK won’t have to leave, which of course for a lot of people was reason to vote for Leave in the first place. Walking back all the goodies that the extremists expected from a Brexit opens the Tories up to a revolt by backbenchers, who could leave for UKIP and force a new election. The Tory majority is after all only 17.

  25. 25
    Applejinx says:

    Oh for pete’s sake.

    The executive thing is entirely why I think Clinton is the only acceptable candidate on either side of the aisle being offered. For all her potential failings, and they are numerous, there is only one choice for ‘have a working government that does things and functions’. Every other choice is a request for disintegration and meltdown, perhaps in the service of rebuilding what is hopelessly broken.

    I can’t cite Mark Blyth enough at this point though: to not acknowledge the situation IS hopelessly broken, is electoral suicide at this point. If Hillary is full of incendiary rhetoric about the bill of goods we’ve been sold by a generation of politicians including her husband, the media doesn’t want to reveal it (GOSH WHO’D HAVE THUNK, maybe it is Hillary supporters’ job to tell people what the media clearly doesn’t want to report on. I have not heard one WORD of what she’s been saying on economics, which should be telling me something that everybody’s mysteriously blacking out her message there)

    In between explaining how the Euro is set up to screw Western European countries and it might be better if it blows up now rather than later, and questioning how he’s supposed to advise Greece when he knows the entire country ignores Greek taxes and hates its government and he can’t see any semblance of a business model for the country’s governance at all, Mark Blyth reveals he’s been telling his American hedge fund buddies ‘the Hamptons are not a defensible position’.

    He means it, he’s not joking. It’s quietly shocking to hear it coming not from facebook/twitter Bros, but from a respected economist who speaks entirely in Wonk and Banker and is very much an insider with a skeptical, analytical view of all this. Blyth, being a professor wonk, ties Brexit to ‘Trumpism’ and correctly blames that on a generation of selling workers down the river on the altar of globalism and has the credentials to back it up (Ivy League professor, jet-setter, going all over the world talking personally to the people in charge this whole time, except in Greece where he can’t find anybody in charge), but being Mark Blyth the no-bullshit Scot he goes a step farther.

    His reason for why every social democracy in the Eurozone needs to reinvent its reason to exist (and hey look! Exactly what Bernie is in no position to demand, yet is still demanding to much mockery and annoyance) is this:

    “Well, it’s a no-win scenario until the elites figure out that at the end of the day, as I like to say to my American hedge fund friends, the Hamptons is not a defensible position. The Hamptons are a very rich area on Long Island that lie on low-lying beaches. Very hard to defend a low-lying beach. Eventually people will come for you.”

    Mic drop. He just stops, and the interviewer moves on to another topic

    This is what was behind Brexit. I don’t want to vote Clinton into power just to see it all pissed away on old-people status quo, and it’s very annoying to see people acting like they can repudiate everything Bernie ran on before he got really interested in delegates :P Because Clinton can’t just win. She has to win, flip the House and Senate, and get a fucking clue and begin FDR-ing it up in there, bigtime.

    Countries are going to disintegrate into uprising and chaos before this period in history is done. Blyth outlines why very tersely, and he’s friend to bankers, not some Bro: he LIKES markets and economics but he is saying all this because it happens to be the simple truth and what many of us have been trying to explain for years. (apparently the austerity thing DID manage to bail out the Eurozone banks and help them deleverage: huh, didn’t realize it had worked, that’s kind of good news in its way).

    We don’t have to be another example of ‘party manages to get complete political power only to implode through Blythly ignoring its responsibility to its citizens’. We’re gonna be in a position to do so much better than that. Bernie is saying don’t fuck that up. I refuse to advocate fucking it all up just because he lost, which he has.

  26. 26
    Warren Terra says:

    I’m shocked, shocked that when asked to work with other people towards a common goal Cornel West instead acted like a jackass, grandstanded, made it all about himself, and fncked off.

    I mean, just because that’s all he ever does, who could have predicted he’d do it this time? How was Bernie to know?

  27. 27

    @Calouste: I’m pretty sure that every politician in the U.K. not named Sturgeon embarrassed themselves over the weekend, but Boris “Hey, hey, now, let’s not be hasty” Johnson is surely at the front of the line.

  28. 28
    Warren Terra says:

    @Calouste: Boris is now promising Brits (and others!) will get all the the parts they like from the UK being in the EU (free trade, free movement, etc), while doing away with any parts of being in the EU that people don’t like (hint: a lot of those are the same parts other people like. His latest promises are even more absurd than the ones that came before.

  29. 29
    amk says:

    @Applejinx:

    Countries are going to disintegrate into uprising

    Which countries are going to disintegrate?

    eta: other than UK

  30. 30
    magurakurin says:

    @Jonathan Holland Becnel:

    Bwahahaha. Are you still here on about this? Seriously, move on. Resign yourself to vote for Clinton, vote for Trump, throw away your vote third party, or sit there in the corner and cry. Those are the choices. This shit is over.

    Is there anything that says boilerplate more than a political party platform? Yet, this is where Bernie wants to take his last stand. Christ, I’d just give him a pen and let him write the whole thing. Who fucking cares? Do any of the people having little brain strokes about all this know what was in the 2012 platform? 2008? 2004? 2000? 1996? It is sort of disturbing how much Bernie Sanders actual resembles Jeremy Corbyn. Thank god he lost.
    and meanwhile, more move across the room to Clinton’s side.

  31. 31
    amk says:

    @Warren Terra: Was boris even to listening what EU folks have been saying since his monumental fuckup? The moron still thinks britain is an empire? While their own last ‘union’ is about to break up? Talk about a con bubble.

  32. 32
    different-church-lady says:

    He said Friday he would endorse Clinton when he hears her say “the things that need to be said.”…

    What is this guy, a fuckin’ dominatrix?

  33. 33
    Barb2 says:

    Bernie is a Narcissistic cult leader. Back in the 70s he read psychology books. Back then there were several human potential cults – using covert mind control techniques. Back then I was in Grad school studying group dynamics. One thing all the professors stressed was ethnics, getting permission of the clients before using the tricks of our trade.

    The Bernie bots, Bernie brat creeps cult followers are proof of Bernie’s use of covert group dynamic methods. He is using kids when they are vulnerable. I get his stupid emails – the ones where he keeps telling the brats to keep on fighting. The other piece of evidence – the Bernie bots at the NV Dem convention, and the NY convention. The Bernie cultists who are planning to disrupt the Dem convention in Philadelphia.

    Bernie has NOT released his tax returns. What is he hiding? What is Jane hiding?

    Bernie is a political party of one – he doesn’t play well with others. He is not a Democrat – has never been one.

    Bernie the cult leader, unethical bastard. He turns my stomach. He is a lying, manipulative bastard.

    He should never been allowed to get this far. Everyone needs to be taught how to recognize Narcissistic personalities, as well as psychopaths and sociopaths. Some of us either have the innate or learned ability to recognize harmful pathological individuals. Most people can’t recognize the Narcissistic personality – evidence = Sanders and Trump.

    This isn’t a rant against all mentally ill – the vast majority of mentally ill are at risk from the so called normals. Plus a large percentage of the “killed by cops” are mentally ill. One of my Soc professors wrote a textbook called “Normal Neurotic”. Jails are now the mental hospitals. Untreated mentally ill living on the streets.

    Many of the comments here show that you do see Bernie and Trump for what they are. But many people are clueless and are ripe for the next flashy unethical narcissistic grifter.

    /rant

  34. 34
    Applejinx says:

    @amk: Don’t ask me, ask Mark Blyth. He warned against Brexit and Scotland leaving the UK to rejoin the EU before it happened. He’s been right about all this so far.

    If he’s still right, it sounds like France and Italy are still in trouble, never mind Greece (he thinks Greece is a basket case, a ward of the state, because Greeks have so given up on the idea of government that they won’t even give it a chance to work). Obviously the UK is headed for trouble.

    We will be in that trouble if Trump wins, and we’ll be in that trouble if Clinton wins and starts doing what the rabid Bernsters all claim she’s going to do. I disagree. I think Clinton is quite capable of doing better than that, indeed of rebooting this pathetic country and getting it working (which doesn’t mean ‘all employed’) again. It’s just scary when you see glimpses of the bad outcome peeking through, knowing that she could also go the wrong way and it’s only her and Bill’s proven ability to read the political winds that will save us.

    This is no time for dogmatic ‘experience’ at the helm. Not all Bernie’s answers are right and he would be a disaster and we’re lucky not to have him, but he’s identified some of the problems and flexible, politically connected leadership MUST address those problems like Bernie never could.

    That’s the take-away. And you can listen to Mark Blyth (who warned against Brexit) if you don’t ever want to listen to Bernie again. It was never just Bernie: in a very real sense he has been a follower or hanger-on, parroting wiser people. It’s just that nobody was listening to those wiser people, and some people began avidly listening to Bernie’s parroting of the truth. Does that make it easier to hear?

  35. 35
    Robert Sneddon says:

    @Amir Khalid: Jeremy Corbyn actually won the election for leader of the Labour Party, unlike Senator Sanders who lost his race for the Dem nomination. Corbyn fought for the Remain campaign alongside Cameron etc. and against the odious Farage and his mendacious followers. The shadow Cabinet resignations are of Blairite right-wingers and appratchiks like Hillary Benn, son of Tony Benn and a hereditary Labour Party insider, drip-fed and designed to do as much damage to Corbyn as possible and move the Labour Party back to the right again.

    It’s very unlikely Jeremy Corbyn would have taken the Labour Party into the next election four years from now but he was popularly elected to the leadership in an attempt to push the Labour Party away from the pseudo-Tory positions Tony Blair had imposed on it. I don’t think he’s under any illusions that his main opponents would be among the MPs of his own party.

  36. 36
    Aimai says:

    @Applejinx: christ–bernie has not said anything that hasnt been said by someone before. He has not identified anything new. He is not preternaturally correct or visionary and we dont need those things to win the election or run the country.

  37. 37
    Chyron HR says:

    @Applejinx:
    @Jonathan Holland Becnel:

    There, there, little Bros. It’s not so bad if Bernie doesn’t get the nomination–even if he isn’t running for President, there’s nothing stopping you from continuing to send him your life’s savings so that he can keep buying front-row seats to Broadway shows and first-class vacations in Europe.

  38. 38
    magurakurin says:

    @Robert Sneddon:

    Corbyn fought for the Remain campaign alongside Cameron etc.

    Except that he didn’t actually fight “alongside Cameron.” More like at the same time. It really looks like Bernie and Hillary in many ways.

    Jeremy Corbyn never budged. Not even Barack Obama could have convinced the Labour leader to help David Cameron make the case against Brexit.

    Less than a month before the historic EU referendum, the team assembled by Cameron to keep Britain in the European Union was worried about wavering Labour voters and frustrated by the opposition leader’s lukewarm support. Remain campaign operatives floated a plan to convince Corbyn to make a public gesture of cross-party unity by appearing in public with the prime minister. Polling showed this would be the “number one” play to reach Labour voters.

    Senior staff from the campaign “begged” Corbyn to do a rally with the prime minister, according to a senior source who was close to the Remain campaign. Corbyn wanted nothing to do with the Tory leader, no matter what was at stake. Gordon Brown, the Labour prime minister whom Cameron vanquished in 2010, was sent to plead with Corbyn to change his mind. Corbyn wouldn’t. Senior figures in the Remain camp, who included Cameron’s trusted communications chief Craig Oliver and Jim Messina, President Obama’s campaign guru, were furious.

  39. 39
    amk says:

    @Applejinx:

    Plenty of people have been saying that brexit would be a monumental fuckup, so?

    Again, what other countries as per ‘Mark’, are gonna ‘disintegrate’?

  40. 40
    Applejinx says:

    And you can listen to Mark Blyth (who warned against Brexit) if you don’t ever want to listen to Bernie again. It was never just Bernie: in a very real sense he has been a follower or hanger-on, parroting wiser people. It’s just that nobody was listening to those wiser people, and some people began avidly listening to Bernie’s parroting of the truth. Does that make it easier to hear?

    christ–bernie has not said anything that hasnt been said by someone before. He has not identified anything new. He is not preternaturally correct or visionary and we dont need those things to win the election or run the country.

    There, there, little Bros. It’s not so bad if Bernie doesn’t get the nomination–even if he isn’t running for President, there’s nothing stopping you from continuing to send him your life’s savings

    Well all righty then. Fuck you all, you demented non-listening trolling fuckmuppets. Might as well be talking to Trump :D

  41. 41
    amk says:

    @Robert Sneddon: That was then. This is now at a different time and different place. At the very least, he wasn’t able to sway the voters enough as a leader should. Cameron too didn’t and he quit. Despite having won a reelection with a majority . So, why is corbyn so special?

  42. 42
    Barb2 says:

    Bernie is not an original thinker. He doesn’t see the whole picture. He is incapable of working with others. Working toward a common goal in a group effort requires the members to be flexible and to be able to listen to other ideas with an open mind.

    Bernie is not Presidential material – never has been. He should have been a minister – preaching weekly and putting his congregation to sleep.

  43. 43
    magurakurin says:

    @Applejinx:

    you demented non-listening trolling fuckmuppets.

    For your own sake, you should probably think about calming down. Brexit is primarily the UK’s problem. And if they really do go through with it, they will suffer the most. And it is silly to believe that nobody but a select enlightened few thought that Brexit would be a bad thing.

    Bernie Sanders isn’t revealing any great truths. I figured out the game was rigged against all but a few when I was 15 and that was back in 1978. Just let it go. Clinton is going to win if we stick together and GOTV. And she will be fine. She will hold the ground gained and probably push things further down field. Demographics are on our side if we can just hold the line here. Base hits and bunts…now isn’t the time to swing for the fences. Hold the line and just forget about Bernie and all the other soothsayers and doomsayers. She’s got this.

  44. 44
    maryQ says:

    Any doubt at all now the we are witnessing the last surge of uncoordinated neurological activity in a declining mind?

  45. 45
    Applejinx says:

    Here’s an interesting perspective from Mark Blyth and Yanis Varoufakis.

    It’s from March 2016 so it’s pretty current, at least in large strokes. They’re saying that the Eurozone, told to be ‘competitive’ (as in, everyone has to be exporters, not just Germany) have actually managed to do it: how? They’re selling to America. Both of the presenters, whose job it is to understand this stuff, were unanimous in saying that the Eurozone is going to collapse into a black hole of political and economic hell unless they’re able to export massively to the USA at a time when the USA, by conventional wisdom, is dedicated to balancing budgets. They’re also convinced the USA is not going to put up with that, will not just spend endlessly to prop up the rest of the world all of whom need to be exporters, and therefore they’re doomed.

    This is quite an opportunity.

    When Hillary wins, she can effectively seize control of the EU through just taking on that role. Massively stimulate the US economy, perhaps through a generous basic income that nobody else is prepared to do (even Switzerland), and then turn America loose as consumer to the world, backed by an endless spigot of printed US money. Huge trade deficit: we end up just buying everything like the proverbial American tourist.

    Our people see an economic boom much like the 90s because at last someone is investing in the American people, something big business will never do again as things stand.

    The rest of the world continues to invest in US Treasury bills as the safest investment, which they are already doing, based on the revitalized economy driven through people spending money, starting businesses, etc.

    And the Eurozone staves off collapse and disintegration (listen to Blyth and Varoufakis, that is what they’re facing) the only way they can: everybody has to be a competitive exporter at once, and as such they become utterly and completely dependent on us as the only ones able to pay them.

    That’s power. I hope Hillary is listening.

    OR I guess she could play austerity monkey, try to balance the budget and honor the wishes of Grover Norquist and continue to starve low-income Americans, and the whole thing can go off a cliff. Up to her I guess. Depends on whether she is as stupid as internet trolls :)

    I’m betting she isn’t, otherwise I wouldn’t be voting for her. Let her become the new FDR and supreme overlord of earth, sounds like fun.

  46. 46
    amk says:

    @Applejinx:

    Fuck you all, you demented non-listening trolling fuckmuppets. Might as well be talking to Trump

    You are a totally self-absorbed puppy aren’t ya?

  47. 47
    Globe says:

    @Jeff Spender: When these kiddos eventually grow up, they’re sadly likely to be the next generation of right wing authoritarians….just as many of our current crop of right wing authoritarians once were.

  48. 48
    Robert Sneddon says:

    @amk: The referendum was Cameron’s baby, it got him enough support from the ‘Kippers in the last election to remain in Downing Street but it meant that losing the referendum cost him his position as PM and party leader. Corbyn was elected to the Labour Party leadership after Milliband resigned and he’s attempting to fix the party’s serious political and philosophical problems post-Blair. Resigning now means the Labour Party would swing to the right again and Britain really needs a strong left-of-centre (in US terms that’s raving commie pinko Stalinist left) party to balance the fascist tendencies of the Tories and “Wogs start at Calais” Little Englanders (in US terms that’s the Democrats).

  49. 49
    BR says:

    @Applejinx:

    I haven’t agreed with much of what you post, but this is generally reasonable and sound.

    Where I disagree is that Sanders has some magic cure to this. More likely, given the unrealistic nature of his plans (and by unrealistic I mean the numbers literally don’t add up, ignoring issues he’d face in congress) if he were to be president we’d see even deeper disillusionment after he would try and fail to push through his agenda. His supporters would burn out in the first 2 years and the GOP backlash would wipe any gains off the map.

  50. 50
    amk says:

    @Robert Sneddon: True, it was cammy boy’s original fuck up. But given the unprecedented times now (in which he failed as a leader to go against the gobinment, btw), what exactly is preventing corbyn from seeking a ‘mandate’ again now? You know, instead of the usual knee-jerk reaction of firing his own party’s shadow cabinet? Which he appointed just a few months back.

  51. 51
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    Try pointing out, as I have in these threads, that the presidency is an executive job, for which Bernie is not well-prepared. I once got this reply from a Bernista: “I don’t know what you’re talking about.”

    I’m not a Sanders supporter, but my immediate thought was “I remember that as an argument against Obama in 2008.”

  52. 52
    Chyron HR says:

    @Applejinx:

    Fuck you all, you demented non-listening trolling fuckmuppets.

    You better be nice to us or we won’t vote for Bernie if he gets the nomination.

  53. 53
    BR says:

    I’m also thinking that the best way for Bernie to get in it and use his clout is to attack Trump a bit. You know that Trump won’t stand idly by and will return attacks on Bernie, and at that point we’ll hear what he truly thinks of the Sanders agenda.

  54. 54

    @maryQ: Geez, that could refer to so many people mentioned in this thread that it must be a universal truth.

  55. 55
    Princess says:

    @Robert Sneddon: What is emerging now is that Corbyn “fought” for remain with his fingers crossed and did a few things to sabotage the effort. If that isn’t true the best one can say about Corbyn is that he is ineffectual. In any case, this isn’t about Corbyn’s feelings any more. Labour needs a strong charismatic leader to run on a full-throated anti-austerity and pro-Remain platform. I doubt that is going to be Corbyn and throwing up the spectre of Blairism against anyone who isn’t Corbyn isn’t helping..

  56. 56
    Robert Sneddon says:

    @amk: Corbyn’s not firing the shadow cabinet, other than Hilary Benn. Some of the right-wingers are packing their bags and leaving in a deliberate and concerted attempt to undermine him. He could well call it a day (he wasn’t going to be leader for the next election) but he doesn’t have to go because of this. He was only elected to the position of Party leader a year ago and not by the Parliamentary Labour Party but by an open vote of Labour Party members (in US terms that would be a closed primary, the good sort) where he got 60% of the total vote with no other candidate getting 20%.

  57. 57
    magurakurin says:

    I’m also thinking that the best way for Bernie to get in it and use his clout is to attack Trump a bit.

    I’m thinking the best way might be to concede defeat, endorse the nominee and stop frick fuckin’ around with the goddamn platform, of all things, and then attack Trump. But at this point….who gives a rat’s ass what he does?

  58. 58
    burnspbesq says:

    @Jonathan Holland Becnel:

    Clinton surrogates on the DNC platform committee voted against putting language in specifying for a 15$ minimum wage, the rejection of TTP, and few other progressive planks.

    Another way to state that would be “Sanders surrogates on the platform drafting committee failed to persuade …” But of course you had to frame it as an anti-Clinton screed, because of your sick, obsessive hatred of the nominee.

    A clear majority of Democrats rejected Sen. Sanders, yet he has been the beneficiary of unprecedented concessions with respect to the platform drafting process. He made mind-bogglingly dumb choices in filling the seats that Wasserman-Schultz so generously allocated.

    Losers don’t get to dictate the terms of their own surrender, much less demand that they be handed the win that they could not and did not achieve.

    Your guy lost. That makes you irrelevant. Get over yourself. If you can’t do the right thing, whatevs–the grownups will see to it that Clinton wins in November. Just get out of the damn way.

  59. 59
    magurakurin says:

    @burnspbesq:

    Your guy lost. That makes you irrelevant. Get over yourself. If you can’t do the right thing, whatevs–the grownups will see to it that Clinton wins in November. Just get out of the damn way.

    yep.

  60. 60
    different-church-lady says:

    and then turn America loose as consumer to the world, backed by an endless spigot of printed US money.

    What could possibly go wrong?!?

  61. 61
    amk says:

    @Robert Sneddon:

    Well, he did start the ball rolling with his midnight firing of 2nd/3rd (?) in his party hierarchy. If they were so blairite right wingers, why didn’t he appoint his own acolytes to these top positions when he clearly had the “60% mandate”?

    Is his a fixed tenure appointment? If he won with 60% just a year ago, as you say, then he should win again now, right? What is he afraid of?

  62. 62
    Applejinx says:

    @Chyron HR: Okay, that got me to laugh out loud. Well played sir :D

    @BR: Hey, that’s why I can’t continue to support Bernie in ANY sense for actual leadership. You are absolutely right in every particular. Bernie happened to be right on the money as far as the alarming state of our economic universe, and even that he didn’t make up himself but got from other people (no shame in that). I supported and continue to support his focus on what’s important in the face of people who seem to be brazenly denying it even exists. I’m happy to link to smarter people like Blyth who are laying it out with a directness that even shocks me. Blyth literally is telling people in the Hamptons, the peasants are coming to murder you and it’s kind of your fault for what you’ve done in recent decades.

    I figure they smile and laugh because he has such a cute accent while he says it, but he’s not actually joking. Brexit illustrates how real the problem is. Nobody wins in Brexit, but the peasants really don’t care anymore as they have no hope anyway and they want to see blood.

    Same thing in the USA, best expressed as ‘Trumpism’. But it’s not fundamentally driven by racism just randomly being extra bad this year.

    Corbyn proves we couldn’t possibly afford the risk of Bernie having the nomination. We got lucky. Now it all rests on whether Hillary is up to speed and pointed the right direction, because the only way to defuse a peasant uprising is to feed ’em and settle ’em down. Things cannot continue the way they have been and there’s no stability to ‘return to’ under Democratic rule: after so much Republican and ‘neo’ fuckwittery, everything’s broken and our societal infrastructure is no longer sound.

    THAT is why I want Clinton. She can adapt and change. They used to call it triangulation, back when survival meant acting like a Republican.

  63. 63
    burnspbesq says:

    @Applejinx:

    Who is Mark Blyth, and why should anyone believe anything he says or writes? You’ve made no effort to address those threshold questions. Until you bear your burden of persuasion, just shove your sanctimony in a convenient orifice.

  64. 64
    Applejinx says:

    @burnspbesq: Spoke to Congress, Ivy League prof, has been predicting all this. Believe me, he hardly depends upon MY authority. Maybe it’s your problem if you don’t know who this guy is or what he’s saying. Maybe it’s you that is out of the loop. I mostly know you as just another internet troll, so damn if I know why I should care that you prefer not to be part of the rational conversation here.

    I’m too poor for sanctimony, thanks. You’ll just have to make do with your own ;)

  65. 65
    burnspbesq says:

    @Robert Sneddon:

    Seems like this might be a good time for the Labour rank and file to exercise its inalienable right of buyer’s remorse.

    “Ah weel not buy zees party leader; eet ees scratched.”

  66. 66
    Jeffro says:

    That cartoon is SO awesome…even my 10-year-old, the one I took with me to hear Bernie speak back in Feb or so, thinks it’s hysterical (and appropriate). Hey Bernie, if you’re even losing the pre-teen set, you might want to think about endorsing and coming on in for the big win, whaddya say?

  67. 67
    Applejinx says:

    @burnspbesq:

    Your guy lost. That makes you irrelevant.

    Are we gonna have to get parliamentary up in this bitch? ;)

    For such a clever guy it seems like you aren’t entirely clear on what a ‘voter’ is, or what ‘representative democracy’ is. Heck, there are these things called ‘representatives’ in the actual government whose job it is to stand in for collections of voters too small to produce a simple majority of all citizens across the country. They’re specifically there to have a say for groups of voters who lost, otherwise there’d be no point to having them and it’d just be ‘elect a King, done’ every four years.

    Learn to civics. :)

    oh, look, I had some sanctimony after all! Ta.

  68. 68
    burnspbesq says:

    @Applejinx:

    Spoke to Congress, Ivy League prof

    Jonathan Adler speaks to Congress, and Cornel West is an Ivy League professor. If that’s all you’ve got, you’ve got bubkes.

  69. 69
    Applejinx says:

    @burnspbesq: And when has Cornel West been right about anything?

  70. 70
    burnspbesq says:

    @Applejinx:

    So riddle me this: how do “representatives” get that gig? They get it by WINNING in some constituency.

    We don’t have PR. Our system isn’t like AYSO. There are no trophies for showing up. Win or go home.

    Go home.

  71. 71
    amk says:

    @Applejinx:

    oh, look, I had some sanctimony after all! Ta.

    aawww, don’t sell yourself cheap like thaaat.

  72. 72
    Robert Sneddon says:

    @burnspbesq: I don’t know who’s up for taking over from Jeremy Corbyn if he does decide to go. Generally he’s supported by the regular Labour Party folks and the unions which are still influential as keelplate members of the original party. It’s the Parliamentary Labour Party (i.e. the MPs, most of whom were elected under Blair and Brown) who want him and his vote-losing left-wing ideas like a living wage, support for the NHS etc. to go away.

  73. 73
    SFAW says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    Try pointing out, as I have in these threads, that the presidency is an executive job, for which Bernie is not well-prepared. I once got this reply from a Bernista: “I don’t know what you’re talking about.”

    At that point, if you had a different personality — mine, let’s say — you would have responded: “You know, an executive — one who executes policy. And also people, such as morons like you who don’t have two functioning brain cells to rub together.”

    But, fortunately, you’re a good, even-tempered, non-assholish guy.

    So I’m here to take up your “slack.”

  74. 74
    burnspbesq says:

    @Applejinx:

    I’m not the one suggesting that “Ivy League prof” is a reason to take Blyth’s every word as Gospel.

    If you were actually educated, you would be familiar with West’s entire body of work, including insightful works like “Race Matters” and “Democracy Matters.” West wasn’t always a caricature. It is precisely because he is capable of so much more that his descent into madness was so disappointing.

  75. 75
    Groucho48 says:

    @magurakurin:

    Being a typical American, I have very little knowledge of British politics. However, I HAVE been following the Brexit stuff and I have noticed a very strong trend for lots of articles focusing on Dems Labour in disarray. It almost seems as though the media is trying to shift the blame for the referendum results onto a minority party rather than the majority party who started the referendum to appease its rabid base rather than because they thought it was a good idea they believed in. The article you linked is a case in point. The first half of the article does its best to imply Corbyn and the Labour Party are responsible for the failure. It’s not until well into the article that it is stated that Cameron has only himself to blame for trying to pander without thought for the consequences. Maybe I’m wrong about this, but, the tactics I’m seeing in the UK are very similar to the usual push, in the U.S., for the right and, hence the MSM to blame failure of policy on the minority left as opposed to the majority right who instigated and pushed for that policy.

  76. 76
    Applejinx says:

    @burnspbesq: There are no trophies for Hillary for showing up, or for tailoring her appeal to internet trolls just so they can point and laugh. There are no voters she doesn’t want: above all, there are no Bernie voters (close to half the Democratic electorate) she doesn’t want to also have in her column.

    Win or go looking for a job as Secretary of State AGAIN, Hillary. These internet trolls gleefully abusing people in your name do not matter because they’ll vote for you anyway. There are ways to seduce (or at least try to seduce) voters you don’t already have, which could go to Trump or sulk at home and those are called swing voters and they’re the only important ones at this stage.

    Win or go home, Hillary. I, personally, am advocating you win. Some of my friends are more inclined to sulk at home, which frustrates me. I guess some of your friends would like to see you lose. Some friends they are…

  77. 77
    SFAW says:

    @burnspbesq:

    But of course you had to frame it as an anti-Clinton screed, because of your sick, obsessive hatred of the nominee.

    But he writes (or used to, haven’t seen a lot of that lately) incisive and insightful self-referential things like “Good job, Becnel!” so how can he be all those terrible things you say?

  78. 78
    dogwood says:

    @Applejinx:
    Bernie voters are not close to half of the democratic electorate. They weren’t even close to half of the primary electorate. Clinton and Sanders primary voters combined are perhaps a little over half of the democratic electorate, and that’s assuming that Sanders voters were actually democrats.

  79. 79
    SFAW says:

    @Applejinx:

    “Win or go home, Hillary”

    Ignoring for the moment that she HAS won the Dem primary, and that the General is still four-months away …

    … outstanding piece of advice. Perhaps, during one of your numerous logorhheic rants, you might spend some time telling Bernie to grow the fuck up, or perhaps “shit or get off the pot,” or some similarly pithy statement used to convey that Bernie’s “kiss my ring or I’m taking my voters and going home”-like statements are helping Trump, not the country.

    If only Hillary were not such a right-winger, then Bernie might not need to be such a holy roller about The People’s Revolution What Will Sweep Away Conservatism for 100 Years, right?

  80. 80
    Robert Sneddon says:

    @Groucho48: If you want to understand what drove a significant number of people to vote Leave in the referendum, you might want to take a look at this montage image of Daily Express front pages. Many of the other British papers are not much better, or maybe worse.

  81. 81
    ruemara says:

    @Jonathan Holland Becnel: wow, you lied about everything but people thinking you’re a troll.

  82. 82
    D58826 says:

    Thanks Bernie :

    The Republican National Committee is planning to cleave liberal voters away from Hillary Clinton as part of a campaign to counteract her forthcoming pick of a vice presidential running mate.
    In a detailed memo outlining its strategy to combat Clinton’s VP choice, the committee says it will frame the selection as both a cynical play to certain constituencies and as an emotional letdown for voters who backed Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) in the Democratic primary.
    The goals, the memo says, are to “drive wedges between these top contenders and either Clinton and/or traditional Democrat constituencies, such as labor, environmentalists, and gun control advocates, and other traditional left-wing constituencies;” and “[w]here applicable, frame the choice as an insult to the large, deep base of Bernie Sanders supporters who are struggling with the notion of supporting Hillary Clinton as the presumptive Democrat nominee.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....a?section=

  83. 83
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Applejinx: Jesus H. Roosevelt Chicken-Fried Christ, would you *stop* already. Fine, Mark Blyth, whatever. Nice to see you’re battling the Bernie hangover with him. Whatever gets you thru’ the night. But until you can get it thru’ your head that maybe, just maybe, Hillary Clinton has some standards and morals and principles as a politician, person, and leader, can you shut up about her? The Hillary Clinton of your fever dreams is an obnoxious construction, and your endless blithering about “well, *if* she sees which way the wind is blowing she’ll do this and we’ll all be saved but oh noes what if she does a sudden pivot toward her Wall Street buddies just like all the Berniebots think she will – then we’ll all be DOOOMED” is getting beyond tiresome and verging into the actually nauseous.

    Seriously, WTF? It’s not like you’re an idiot, unlike some of the resident Bro-trolls here.

  84. 84
    SFAW says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    Jesus H. Roosevelt Chicken-Fried Christ,

    For some reason, I get the sense that “On A Shingle” should be inserted into that one. Somewhere. But even without it, that was kinda awesome.

  85. 85
    El Caganer says:

    OK, that tears it. I’ve had enough of the condescending snark about The Revolution by you corporate sellouts. I’m gonna logon to my Facebook page and BRING THE PAIN!

  86. 86
    SFAW says:

    @Jonathan Holland Becnel:

    These facts don’t fit the narrative of Bernie being Mr old cranky pants

    Bernie has created that “narrative” by his own hand, as it were.

  87. 87
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Robert Sneddon: Great. Thanks for equating Democrats with Little Englanders. You yutz. That’s a bit of a slap in the face to those of us (Democrats) who are actively working with refugees and immigrants and pushing for immigration reform – as well as a host of other unglamorous progressive causes. Look where your precious feeb Corbyn has taken the Labour Party – farther along the path to complete political irrelevance, because apparently the actual business of doing politics is too sordid and might stain his lefty street cred. Way to go, Corbyn!

    Take your false equivalencies and cram ’em somewhere dark and smelly.

  88. 88
    Groucho48 says:

    @Robert Sneddon:

    Wow! That’s quite a lineup of fear mongering xenophobia!

  89. 89
    SFAW says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    I think Sneddon was pointing to the fearmongering by the Express in a “can you believe this shit?” sense, not declaring himself in sympathy with it.

  90. 90
    sherparick says:

    @amk: There is also all the attention paid to him right now by the MSM. If he drops out the race and endorses Hillary, the Chuck Todds, producers at Face the Nation, CNN Erin Burnett types, etc. will no longer see any point having him on the their shows (just as they saw no point until the autumn of 2015 and Bernie started running a competitive race in Iowa and New Hampshire). So donations and MSM media attention are his incentives to stay in the race. Its difficult because we have to deal with the H.A. Goodman trolls, but bear with it for four more weeks and this part of the campaign will be over. Then the truly terrifying bit starts, with a possible Trump Presidency looming.

  91. 91
    SFAW says:

    @burnspbesq:

    Cornel West is an Ivy League professor.

    “Was.” Hasn’t been “is” for five years. Union Theological being “affiliated” with Columbia does not make it an Ivy.

  92. 92
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Applejinx:

    They’re specifically there to have a say for groups of voters who lost,

    What in the ever-loving fuck are you talking about?

  93. 93
    Quinerly says:

    @El Caganer:

    You win the thread!

  94. 94
    D58826 says:

    Supreme Court Strikes Down Texas Abortion Law, Breathing New Life Into Roe v. Wade

  95. 95
    SFAW says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    What in the ever-loving fuck are you talking about?

    The time-honored American political tradition of “the losers get to call the shots,” of course.

    Won’t Trump get to dictate policy to Hitlary Bernie if he loses? Especially if Hitlary Bernie gets only 400 EV — just squeaking out a win — then Trump will be in the driver’s seat, right?

    ETA: You know, for an old fart, you’re woefully out of touch with American electoral politics.

  96. 96
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:

    @Barb2:

    Bernie has NOT released his tax returns. What is he hiding? What is Jane hiding?

    This intrigues the hell out of me. The fact that none of his supporters seem to be interested at all, or in Burlington College’s failure, is the tell that they’ve become cult members, a la Scientology, along with the delusional thinking and obsession with California’s counting. It’s actually a cargo cult – like the obsession with the remains of the Grateful Dead that my 60 year old DeadHead friend still has. It’s head shakingly pathetic.

    As far as Bernie’s policies and his supporters obsession with the platform, I can’t help but think back to the weeks before the ACA came to a vote, and all the hope around a public option being included. Joe Lieberman and Ben Nelson were determined that there wouldn’t be one or they’d filibuster, but in particular Joe Lieberman. Remember all the stories about St. Bernard of Burlington arm twisting his fellow independent/Democratic caucuser Lieberman, putting as much effort into pressuring him to compromise and/or concede about the public option because he was so committed to that cause? Yeah, me neither. And what has been preventing him from going after Trump all this time anyway? Oh yeah, Bernie’s a loudmouthed full of shit fraud.

  97. 97
    WarMunchkin says:

    What? Why are you blaming Jeremy Corbyn for the Brexit vote? That makes no sense. That referendum was devised by David Cameron in order to consolidate power for the Tories. It’s the Labour leader’s fault for not walking into the buzzsaw enthusiastically enough? It’s pretty clear that there has always been opposition to Corbyn among the Labour elite, and those shadow cabinet members merely used the Brexit vote as a dramatic moment to resign in protest.

  98. 98
    sherparick says:

    @Robert Sneddon: Um, not quite, since the Democrats are the minorities majority party (although admittedly most of the leadership outside of Obama is still white, and white male at that). Realize you are just trolling and snarking with that last little comment, but both the Democrats and the Democrats are not pure ideological parties (the Labour Party of the early and mid 20th century, of Kier Hardie, Bevan, and even Harold Wilson, based on the British Working Class and the great Trade Unions, like the Mineworkers and Steelworkers, is gone, just as the coal pits are closed and the Sheffield mills are closed). And our countries are very different. Corbyn, like Sanders, has not been able to adjust from the role of “gadfly” to “party leader,” something he never really aspired to. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/26/jeremy-corbyn-labour-remain-election

    As disagreeable as it might be to the activists in the party, the majority of the MPs of the Labour Party came in an grew up under Tony Blair’s Party. And as much as Blair is now hated for his catastrophic Iraq policy, he was Labour’s most successful leader ever in the realm of electoral politics, three general elections (1997, 2001, and 2005). As disagreeable as is for Corbyn, his job was to forge a consensus with the majority of his members in parliament. And that he has failed to do.http://www.theguardian.com/pol.....ow-cabinet

    (P.S. I note in the Guardian running story, that both the Conservatives and UKIP have gone up in the polls, 36% and 15% respectively.)

  99. 99
    nutella says:

    Christ, what an asshole. *

    Christ, what an asshole. **

    (*) Bernie Sanders
    (**) Cornel West

  100. 100
    gwangung says:

    @BR:

    Where I disagree is that Sanders has some magic cure to this. More likely, given the unrealistic nature of his plans (and by unrealistic I mean the numbers literally don’t add up, ignoring issues he’d face in congress) if he were to be president we’d see even deeper disillusionment after he would try and fail to push through his agenda. His supporters would burn out in the first 2 years and the GOP backlash would wipe any gains off the map.

    Yeah, pretty much this, and I’ve said so for a long time.

    He’s correct on the issues, but he’s not the correct man for them.

  101. 101
    gwangung says:

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne:

    This intrigues the hell out of me. The fact that none of his supporters seem to be interested at all, or in Burlington College’s failure, is the tell that they’ve become cult members, a la Scientology, along with the delusional thinking and obsession with California’s counting.

    Unfortunately, yes; these items, plus the theft of computer files, the enrichment of a family member under Burlington and the sloppy management of donated funds (failure of Accounting 101) suggests to me that Sanders is just as ethically challenged as any other politician.Which renders his charge, that the Democratic Party is corrupt, more than a little hypocritical.

  102. 102
    Elie says:

    @D58826:

    THIS THIS THIS!!!!! 5-3 —YAY!

  103. 103
    SFAW says:

    @Elie:

    THIS THIS THIS!!!!! 5-3 —YAY!

    If only Fat Nino were still around, that would have made all the difference in the outcome. (Actually, that might even be true, given Kennedy’s relative lack of spine).

    On the negative side, McDonnell’s conviction was thrown out. Anonymously or something.

  104. 104
    BrianM says:

    Jeez, Applejinx has come over to saying “not all Bernie’s answers are right and he would be a disaster and we’re lucky not to have him” and attitudes haven’t softened toward him one bit. And Mark Blyth, whose ideas in Austerity: the History of a Dangerous Idea ought to be conventional wisdom to Random Q. Balloon Juice Reader, is dismissed out of hand because Applejinx mentioned him.

    Sanders isn’t the only one being a self-indulgent asshole.

  105. 105
    sunny raines says:

    So far, I have the impression that Clinton’s campaign is about as sophisticated as a campaign can get. If they’re still playing nice with Sanders and tolerating what appears to be his nonsense, I trust they’re doing so for a good reason, presumably that they still think they have more to gain from him than lose. Otherwise they would have tossed him in the gutter already. That Sanders chooses to keeping poking, doesn’t seem to me to be the best strategy, but then again if he had a stronger strategy he might not be in the weak position he is in.

  106. 106
    sunny raines says:

    @gwangung:

    He’s correct on the issues, but he’s not the correct man for them.

    Sanders has been correct or close on the aspirations. He never had a sound practical way to achieve any of it, at least not in the near term. But we should not undervalue aspirations: keeping an eye on the target is very important.

  107. 107
    Miss Bianca says:

    @BrianM: Some of us *have* read Mark Blyth, thank you. And some of us, yours truly included, have been willing to cut Applejinx plenty of slack as he gropes his way out of the thickets of Bernie fever, and even applauded his willingness to do so. What some of us, yours truly included, are really REALLY tired of is hearing that the only reason Clinton might have for “doing the right thing” in Applejinx’s mind, is that she’s an ultrawily politician with no convictions or principles, who is only interested in being elected for its own sake – the Democrats’ own version of Tricky Dick. This is patently untrue, it’s offensive, I’m sick of it, and I’m calling him on it. For your information, whoever you are.

  108. 108
    Ella in New Mexico says:

    As a former Bernie Sanders supporter, I refuse to care–or, agonize, as so many here do, that Sander’s hasn’t said the “magic words” or given due deference to our winning candidate. At this point, I ABSOLUTELY don’t give a crap about micro issues like his wife’s problems at Burlington College. I don’t call his advocacy for changes in the Party platform any more of an ego trip than anyone who runs for President–Obama and Hilary included–are on an ego trip. I don’t see a single reason to get angry at him, unless you have some kind of pathetic lack of a real life, are a paid activist, or have a weird, personal hatred of the man. Instead I’m rooting for her and making sure my fellow Bernie voters get to hear her actual words and find out that she’s really gonna be awesome. And I feel sure that 90% of Democrats who voted for Sanders are moving on with Hilary. That remaining 10% were never gonna vote for her ever anyway.

    Right now, Hillary is giving a terrific economic policy speech right now in Ohio, with Elizabeth W. right behind her. She’s energetic, positive, natural, and cleaning Trump’s clock. And she’s saying all the things that “need to be said” about economics, as far as I’m concerned–especially about trade, Wall Street, transparency, student loans, clean energy. She clearly gives a real shit about the middle class, about poor people, about everybody who’s being held hostage to a stagnant, frustrating status quo. She’s all about moving America forward with a progressive growth agenda.

    Even Obama wasn’t allowed to “care” about a lot of these issues during his campaign and Presidency. Good as a man he is, Wall Street and the Banks ran wild with his willingness to be a safe, solution focused moderate in his first term, and that’s why everyone is now so damn angry at them. I wonder if she would have had permission to go hard for those more leftist, anti-oligarchic positions were it not that 48% of Democrats voted for Bernie and put those kind of issues at the top of their list, as opposed to second or third. So for that, I thank Sanders for his contribution in making Hilary Clinton the best candidate we’ve had for President in a long, long time.

    And given things like this morning’s Supreme Court decision on abortion, I’m with Her now, more than ever. Hatin’ on Bernie?

    We ain’t got time for that, folks.

  109. 109
    lethargytartare says:

    @BrianM:

    Jeez, Applejinx has come over to saying “not all Bernie’s answers are right and he would be a disaster and we’re lucky not to have him” and attitudes haven’t softened toward him one bit.

    that’s because AJ’s change of heart is always framed thusly:

    “Bernie Sanders is just too good for America and wouldn’t get anything done. What we need is a soulless, machiavellian monster like Hillary to get things done. I Just hope she’s realized how completely right Bernie is about everything and uses her evil powers to enact his agenda, otherwise she’ll give in to her true self and sell us out to Goldman Sachs”

    it’s a complete bullshit change of heart, a rhetorical device designed in an attempt to get further hearing of his slams against Hillary only the rubes are buying.

  110. 110
    J R in WV says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    I don’t think the Little Englanders are angry with the right (correct) political entity. Isn’t England part of the Great Britian Commonwealth? Wasn’t that the British Empire back when? So that all those Commonwealth countries are populated with people with high melanin content complexions… in other words, the people the Brexit folks want to stop from coming the the UK?

    Maybe those prejudiced idiots should be fighting the Commonwealth, rather than the European community, which is mostly other white folks, who can indeed come to England (GB) as they wish, and seek employment.

    But I never did understand prejudice. I loved importing workers who were brilliant from other countries to add to the mix here in America. Most of them were going to be / have been wonderful additions to the recipe for what makes America great. So I don’t understand Trumpism at all. Crazed, as crazy as England wanting to leave the EU. If not more crazy.

  111. 111
    lethargytartare says:

    @Ella in New Mexico:

    fvck you too, with this bullshit about everything good about Hillary emanating from Bernie’s sparrow-fueled soul. The next time one of you jackasses can say something positive with these nonsense caveats will be the first.

  112. 112
    Robert Sneddon says:

    @J R in WV: There hasn’t been an open immigration policy between Britain and the Commonwealth for decades now, any more than there has been for the US and the Phillipines or any other of its own lost Imperial possessions. The last big foofaraw about that sort of thing was over the return of the colony of Hong Kong to the Chinese government when Britain’s 99-year lease expired in the early 1990s. British law on citizenship and right to remain was rapidly rewritten to exclude Chinese HK people who had British passports from coming to the UK as permanent residents.

  113. 113
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Ella in New Mexico: A win in November. That’s what it’s all about.

    @J R in WV: O/T, but I’m damn glad to see you posting…was worried about our West Virginians, and if you posted earlier, I missed it, so yay — you’re okay!

  114. 114
    satby says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    What some of us, yours truly included, are really REALLY tired of is hearing that the only reason Clinton might have for “doing the right thing” in Applejinx’s mind, is that she’s an ultrawily politician with no convictions or principles, who is only interested in being elected for its own sake – the Democrats’ own version of Tricky Dick. This is patently untrue, it’s offensive, I’m sick of it, and I’m calling him on it.

    Absolutely this.

  115. 115
    satby says:

    @lethargytartare: Words right out of my mouth. But this statement was breathtaking:

    At this point, I ABSOLUTELY don’t give a crap about micro issues like his wife’s problems at Burlington

    Of to translate: “ethics? We don’t need no steenkin’ethics”

  116. 116
    different-church-lady says:

    @satby: The accusations would have far less currency if Sanders’ army hadn’t spent so much time positioning him as “The Only Ethical Person in Politics™”. When you constantly claim, “He has nothing to hide” then people will just automatically start trying to prove it wrong.

    Myself, I suspect the Burlington College fiasco was both (a) more complicated and (b) less the sole fault of Jane Sanders fucking up than detractors want to believe. And I’ve never understood the obsession with tax returns. Neither one would get much attention out of me in a neutral context. But in the context of “The Last Honest Man In Washington”, the irony sticks out quite a bit.

  117. 117
    Applejinx says:

    @BrianM: It’s just more cultishness. I don’t mind it unless it causes a problem. To people who are not insulated from life experience in 2016, it can be a problem and that’s not OK with me, otherwise I’d happily roll with it: Clinton voters determined to be Clinton voters, no problem there.

    Try this on for size: NO POLITICIAN at that level is anything other than a calculating manipulator trying to ride the waves.

    I won’t back down on Hillary. She has a choice and she can go with her gut and her real desires, or she can go with the politically correct. I have a bunch of friends associated with the hemophilia community who will NEVER vote for her and I won’t even ask them or mention her name around them, because that Clinton name is associated with selling tainted blood and decimating the hemophila support community, and it was down to being loyal to political backers, early ones who were indispensable.

    I have a bunch of friends convinced in the 90s Hillary learned to be a ruthless neoliberal. We’ve all seen the video clips of a much much younger Hillary saying stuff that doesn’t comport with today’s Dem platform. SHE WAS and that was a long time ago. That did not represent what was really in her heart. That was political calculation and appropriate to the times. I’m not holding that against her now, she should not be so vehemently expected to party like it’s 1999. That’s crazy and kind of insulting.

    But if you claim that she has been whole-heartedly, personally engaged with all that, it paints an ugly damn picture. I call bullshit. She’s been politically expedient a lot.

    If you like, you can say that now… at last! she’s getting to run as a full-throated liberal in a situation where that wins. It’s not due to Bernie, he’s not that impressive and he is NO BETTER, see Burlington, see various manipulative things he’s done up to and including this not suspending of his campaign. They’re ALL like that. Possible exception Cruz, who is insane and sincere. And look how well that’s working for him! They’re all insincere weathervanes to a point and Hillary can be a flower-eating hippie on the inside and it will NOT MATTER because she’s a successful politician and prepared to win. As Burnsie kept saying, you lose you get nothing. Hillary exemplifies that. If she hadn’t weaseled all over the place she wouldn’t be here now to run as a liberal, and then where would we be?

    And I realize a bunch of Berniacs do actually think that their savior is a miracle who creates sparrows from his fingertips and does everything out of the pureness of his heart, and I absolutely don’t believe that for a second. He is not one bit different, he just has a pet soapbox that happens to have much truth to it. But he’s no better than Ted Cruz if Cruz was an avowed socialist who hated banks but was otherwise Cruz. (that’s probably the high water mark of evil shit I’ll say against Bernie, so enjoy: I only half believe that, but there’s a little ‘political’ in me too)

    Clinton can want the right thing and then abandon it and do the opposite. Has done. I really don’t care what’s in her heart or convictions and I hope this is what she wanted. I have every sympathy for wanting to make her own platform very similar (as the Clinton campaign has said, and they’re right) to the Purity Sparrow’s, and then to showily reject his and take all the credit: for fuck’s sake, I have been advocating that she should do just that, and that people should let her take the credit. As far as I can tell things are going fine.

    She could still turn all 90s neoliberal IF, repeat IF, she thought she had to do that to win.

    And that’s why it’s so important to communicate that doing such a thing would not only be horrible, but it is also a recipe for disaster, something she doesn’t want at all. And that’s why the lessons of Brexit should resonate. And that’s why you have to do some kabuki and seem to validate the rival who is JUST as much of a weasel plus he lost, in order to bring in that voting bloc.

    I don’t care what Hillary’s principles are. They’re not predictive of what she will do so they don’t matter. I only care about what she will do, just as she doesn’t give a damn about the little feelings of all the BernieBros, she just wants their votes to help bring a landslide.

    Only then can she go ahead with what she REALLY wants. and I want that too. Let’s make a world where Hillary can be Hillary.

    Because history has shown that we can make a world where she can’t, and hence doesn’t.

  118. 118
    gwangung says:

    @sunny raines: Which is why I have no problems with his having input on the platform, or stumping on his issues.

    But he’s not real good on policy or management (actually, quite poor), and he should stay away from that.And I don’t think that’s an unfair thing to say.

  119. 119
    Applejinx says:

    And, I might add, just as I completely trust her to do the right things regarding racial justice… not out of personal sympathy because Bernie had all the sympathy in the world but still came with wrong answers and an inability to listen, no… because the black vote HAD HER BACK and she is not going to fail those who believed in her.

    For just such reasons, when I hear of Elizabeth Warren on stage with her, hear of Warren backing her, that says more than any amount of speechmaking. And it makes me want to stand up and go, hey! I too did not start out on the same side. I could go multiple directions and I don’t have to trust you, Mrs. Clinton. There are reasons I shouldn’t. But you know what? I choose to believe that if I support you politically, you’re not gonna sell me down the river and that will mean something more than just ‘assumed Dem vote with no other conditions’.

    Better deal than you’ll ever get from Trump. Who was it that said an honest politician stays bought? They run on money but they’re bought with faith.

    I didn’t say belief, I said faith. There’s no faith in Bernie, just belief: that’s the whole problem. Faith is what Hillary can inspire when you start to think that government doesn’t have to be horrible and broken, that trade doesn’t have to be a death sentence for ordinary Americans, that justice is possible. It can all work. Has done in the past. But somebody has to see a political advantage for it to work, otherwise they’ll just all go for the quick buck and the easy path again.

  120. 120
    SFAW says:

    @Ella in New Mexico:

    that Sander’s hasn’t said the “magic words” or given due deference to our winning candidate.

    Might want to keep any open flame away from that straw man.

  121. 121
    Ella in New Mexico says:

    @lethargytartare:

    fvck you too, with this bullshit about everything good about Hillary emanating from Bernie’s sparrow-fueled soul.

    No, that is NOT what I’m saying, and if the subtley is too much for you, I’m sorry that you lack the ability to figure it out. Hilary Clinton ALREADY believed in most of that stuff, but for the entirely of her political career, the PARTY and THE COUNTRY has had it’s political and economic head up their asses, thank’s to BushCo’s wake of destruction. In order for her to play the long game and get elected to the Senate and appear a credible Presidential candidate, she had to tack to the right. It was just what she had to do.

    But things are different now in 2016, even than they were in 2008. Now ,it’s the voice of the VOTERS, not Sanders, that has changed, and it’s given her the chance to go back to her progressive roots. The PEOPLE are demanding this shift in emphasis, and while they may have had a useful purpose for Sanders as their vehicle to talk more about them, HE is not where they came from. So unbunch those panties, and let the Bern-hate go.

  122. 122
    Ella in New Mexico says:

    @satby:

    But this statement was breathtaking:

    What is breathtaking is the fact that a ruminating over a losing Primary candidate’s wife’s professional or legal problems would take precedence over getting our candidate elected in the General. Whatever these issues with Jane Sanders are, they’ll be dealt with long after the election in November, and will cease to matter.

    Fixating on “stuff that would beat Sanders” in an election WHEN HE’S ALREADY BEATEN seem pretty useless to me. But then, like I said, unless you have no real life, are a paid politico or have a really weird, personal hatred for the guy, you’re just beating the dried up, partially skeletal remains of a dead horse anyway. Move on.

  123. 123
    Robert Sneddon says:

    @Ella in New Mexico: Senator Sanders has yet to concede the nomination, he has not yet suspended his campaign and he has yet to endorse the putative winning candidate, SoS Clinton. As long as he goes on the talk shows and plans campaign rallies then he is still presenting the appearance of actively campaigning and so he, his positions and his campaign staff and surrogates are fair game for discussion.

  124. 124
    lethargytartare says:

    @Ella in New Mexico:

    you’re adorable

  125. 125
    Ella in New Mexico says:

    @lethargytartare: Why thank you, I’ll take that as a compliment. ;-)

    @Robert Sneddon:When you use the words “Fair game” you pretty much identify yourself as a deeply invested political junkie, not an average person out here deciding who to vote for. This kind of single-minded, relentless Bernie hate is also what Republicans are planning on turning into gold to keep former Sander’s voters home in the fall, so if you want to contribute to it, don’t blame the rest of us is we opt out.

    I’m happy keeping my eyes on the prize, not wasting my energy on this shit. And certainly not gonna let the trolls run my life.

  126. 126
    Robert Sneddon says:

    @Ella in New Mexico: If he’s still in the game he’s fair game for people to analyse what he and his surrogates say and do. Suspend his campaign, publicly concede he lost the nomination race and endorse SoS Clinton as the presumptive Democratic candidate for President and he can go back to the Senate and do the job he’s been bunking off for the past nine months or so. Until then, while he continues to hold rallies and issue press statements and appear on chat shows as a candidate for the Democratic nomination, he’s still in the game, and it ain’t beanbag.

  127. 127
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Applejinx:

    I have a bunch of friends associated with the hemophilia community who will NEVER vote for her and I won’t even ask them or mention her name around them, because that Clinton name is associated with selling tainted blood and decimating the hemophila support community, and it was down to being loyal to political backers, early ones who were indispensable.

    Okay, I’m way late to this thread, but you realize the above is mostly a crazy conspiracy theory, right? Not necessarily the part where prison officials were selling tainted blood, but the part where you decide that the Clintons were personally responsible for it.

    The U.K. is the country that gave us Andrew Wakefield, so forgive me for being skeptical that an unknown documentarian from the UK just happened to uncover a massive Clinton scandal.

    If you can find me unbiased coverage about the movie — meaning from somewhere other than World Net Daily or Counterpunch — I’ll take a look, but right now this has the look of yet another thinly sourced anti-Clinton smear.

    (My favorite part of the Variety review — Whitewater figures are talking about this scandal, too! Hey, genius, maybe the fact that Whitewater turned out to be bullshit should have made you think twice about those same scandalmongers now claiming to have knowledge of a new one.)

  128. 128
    Applejinx says:

    @Mnemosyne: Never said the Clintons were personally responsible. I am, however, saying that the Clintons never did turn against those who WERE responsible. Political loyalty proved more important, and maybe they were ‘right’: here Hillary is, and I’m going to be voting for her.

    My hemophiliac friends never, ever will. I won’t even bring it up. They conflate that tainted blood scandal with the Clintons because the Clintons allowed those people to continue to support them (and let’s just say the support was mutual). It’s effectively the same as pardoning murderers: families of the victims can be expected to not forgive.

    I’m pretty sure from context there’s an element of ‘oh my God go away never speak to us again’ in there. I didn’t even say the Clintons LIKED what happened, only that they protected the wrong people for political reasons.

    I would like to have people that loyal to ME, you know. I can see why Bill became so popular. If you’re on his side, he does not drop you cavalierly, he’s trustworthy. Sometimes that trust is misplaced but it says something that he keeps it regardless.

  129. 129
    lethargytartare says:

    @Ella in New Mexico:

    it wasn’t. It’s just astoundingly juvenile how you bernfeelers were condescending know-it-alls about Bernie being the best candidate, then you were condescending know it alls about the Dem party corruption, and then you were condescending know it alls about fixing the electoral process, and now you’re condescending know it alls about how best to move on to the general. I mean you’re only o for 3 with 3 strikeouts and an OPS of .000, but sure, let’s bat you third in the lineup.

  130. 130
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Applejinx:

    I am, however, saying that the Clintons never did turn against those who WERE responsible.

    Name names. Not just people connected to Clinton but the names of the people who were both responsible for selling tainted blood products AND ALSO Clinton supporters.

    I realize your friends will never vote for Clinton because they’ve already bought into the conspiracy theory, and it’s almost impossible to bring people back once that happens. That’s why I still see “Andrew Wakefield was right!” bumper stickers on cars around here.

    But the fact that your friends have been snookered by a nutty conspiracy theory isn’t Clinton’s fault. If they believed she was a secret lizard person, would it be her responsibility to address that?

    ETA: Also note, you need to provide one (1) degree of separation, not Well, X supported Clinton, and X was supported by Y, so obviously Y must also have supported Clinton!

  131. 131
    henqiguai says:

    @Ella in New Mexico(#125):

    you pretty much identify yourself as a deeply invested political junkie

    You do understand you’re typing that condemnation on a freakin’ political blog, right?

  132. 132
    SFAW says:

    @lethargytartare:

    you’re only o for 3 with 3 strikeouts and an OPS of .000, but sure, let’s bat you third in the lineup.

    Terry Collins calling on Line 2, wants to see if she’s available to pinch-hit for Yoenis Cespedes

  133. 133
    SFAW says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    If they believed she was a secret lizard person, would it be her responsibility to address that?

    I take it you’re saying it’s NOT her responsibility? Freakin’ Hillbot.

    Next you’ll be trying to tell us it’s not her responsibility to answer the claims that she had something to do with Judge Crater. You blind DLC loyalists are what’s worng with ‘Murica.

  134. 134
    SFAW says:

    @henqiguai:

    You do understand you’re typing that condemnation on a freakin’ political blog, right?

    It’s kind of like the Irony Corollary to Poe’s Law.

  135. 135
    Uncle Ebeneezer says:

    A song for Bernie.

  136. 136
    les says:

    Clinton surrogates on the DNC platform committee voted against putting language in specifying for a 15$ minimum wage, the rejection of TTP, and few other progressive planks.

    This pretty much says it: not just waah, waah, give us everything; but angry because they can’t have a platform plank that contradicts the position of a sitting, and highly favored, Democratic president. Guess what, children: the Democratic party is not going to bitchslap the sitting Democratic president on a trade issue. For a guy who’s never done anything else in his life, Bernie doesn’t get much about politics.

  137. 137
    El Caganer says:

    @satby: Hey, I’m in Philly – we sleep right through shit like that.

    http://www.philly.com/philly/o.....iends.html

  138. 138
    WaterGirl says:

    @Uncle Ebeneezer: I’ll see your song for Bernie, and raise you.

  139. 139
    Ella in New Mexico says:

    @lethargytartare: that skeletal dead horse ain’t gettin any deader

  140. 140
    Ella in New Mexico says:

    @henqiguai: perhaps campaign hack, shill or paid troll would have been better choices than junkie. And many of us here are not those things.

  141. 141
    O. Felix Culpa says:

    @Ella in New Mexico: Problem is, there are some, even in the Land of Enchantment, who are still riding that [dead] horse. To wit, the disruption by Bernie delegates at the New Mexico Democratic party’s post-primary convention last Saturday:

    After Sanchez told the crowd at the Albuquerque Convention Center that the party will lose the White House if Democrats don’t come together and back Hillary Clinton for president, many supporters of her rival in the primary, Bernie Sanders, began chanting “Bernie or bust!” — a slogan of those who say there is no way they will back anyone but Sanders. There were scattered boos.

  142. 142
    Ella in New Mexico says:

    @O. Felix Culpa: Yes, but

    Gillian Labe of Albuquerque, founder of New Mexico for Bernie Sanders, said she won’t decide until after the Democratic National Convention if she’ll support Clinton. “I don’t like Hillary Clinton,” she said. “But I’m not a ‘Bernie or bust’ person. Donald Trump scares me more than Hillary Clinton does.”
    But Labe said at least three of the 16 Sanders delegates elected Saturday to attend the national convention next month in Philadelphia have said publicly that they will not support Clinton in November.

    I look at the above half-full Margarita glass as a reassurance that it’ll all work out. Three vs. the rest of the delegation is essentially a bunch of Green party regulars who thought they’d actually get some national traction for their narrow agenda. They weren’t ever gonna vote for Hilary anyway.

    Besides, I think the dissent is a healthy thing, given the number of lackluster DINO’s and old school Patrons we still have in the NM Democratic Party. Let ’em go at it, I say. :-)

  143. 143
    DCF says:

    Strange, how the position(s) advanced by the Democratic Party establishment are – in large measure – diametrically opposed to both the Progressive wing and the majority of liberal/progressive and independent voters.
    Clinton’s “First Major Betrayal”? DNC Surrogates Defeat Anti-TPP Measure
    ‘The Clinton campaign’s reversal on TPP is not just bad policy—it’s terrible politics,’ says Bernie Sanders advisor

    http://www.commondreams.org/ne.....pp-measure
    The DNC Just Torpedoed the Majority of Bernie Sanders’ Agenda
    http://usuncut.com/politics/sa.....tee-fight/

  144. 144
    Cleos says:

    The political equivalent of the guy who’s still on that bar stool well after Last Call For Alcohol.

  145. 145

    The convention hasn’t happened yet. Bernie as the DNC nominee, or Sanders/Stein.

    People before party.

  146. 146
    O. Felix Culpa says:

    @Ella in New Mexico: Well, if you’re talking Margaritas, count me in!

  147. 147
    fuckwit says:

    i like it. warren is the carrot, bernie is the stick. both will move the party leftward

Comments are closed.