Help WV If You Will


Many of you know how how I feel about religion- but since I have some time, I might as well post it again now. Long story short, I really have no use for it. I’m not a believer, I don’t think it should guide our political discourse, and I hate the destructive impact it so often seems to have on so many people.

On the other hand, I’m also not the asshole who needs to run around and convince everyone else there is no God or to abuse people who believe- I’m kind of with Marc Maron on this. I may agree with Richard Dawkins a lot, but man is he an asshole.

At any rate, my mom was a Quaker and my dad’s mom was Catholic but for some reason he was a Methodist, but when they moved here to Bethany, WV they both became Disciples of Christ. I went to church as a kid and was baptized before I had a say, but none of it really stuck. My only really profound memories of church and religion are giggling inappropriately. Disciples is actually a rather progressive church, LGBT inclusive, that was partially founded in Bethany.

Back to the point- even though I am not a believer or a member, I generally choose to give them money every time they have a bake sale, or pancake dinner, or what not, because they are good people, my friends and neighbors, and I trust them to make the most out of whatever I give them. I guess I think of it as a small way to help my community. Anything that makes that many people happy and gives them comfort is worth keeping, in my book, and they are not out actively doing harm like many churches and religious sects (see Tony Perkins and those human scum). This is the place that helps my friends when their loved ones dies, the place where people go to be married.

So when it comes to donating to help people struck by the floods, they were my first choice, and if you are so inclined, this would be a good place to donate. It’s a local congregation that one of my friends recommends and they have a modest and attainable fundraising goal, so if you have a few bucks you want to chip in, these folks would make the most of what you donate.

Here’s the link for the gofundme.

115 replies
  1. 1
    Pogonip says:

    My dad’s your kind of atheist. Since he’s sure God doesn’t exist, he (Dad) sees no point in ranting on about him (God).

    Dawkins and his buddies could learn from you two.

  2. 2
    evap says:


  3. 3
    zzyzx says:

    As anyone who knows me knows, I’m a huge Phish fan. One tendency that drives me crazy though is that their lyricist tends to throw in atheist statements in completely unrelated songs. The flip though is that it’s so random and over the top, that it’s just kind of amusing.

  4. 4
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    I’m in. Wish it could be much more.

  5. 5
    RepubAnon says:

    There is no way to design an experiment to detect an all-knowing, all-powerful Supreme Being – if that Supreme Being wants us to base our belief in faith alone. When the Northern Lights spell out which religion (if any) I should believe in – I’m there. In the meantime, I try to help people when I can. Not to save myself from eternal torment – but because it’s the right thing to do whether or not some deity is watching.

  6. 6
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @RepubAnon: Greco-Roman gods tended to knock up the local maidens. The Abrahamic god seems to have only done it once. Less DNA evidence left behind.

  7. 7
    hamletta says:

    DoC-er’s are pretty cool. There was a parish in my old East Nashville neighborhood, and they did nice things for the community.

  8. 8
    JMG says:

    Dear John: Just gave $50. Your word on these folks is plenty good enough for me. I have been lucky enough to have been at the Greenbrier and the area wiped out is familiar to me. Thank you for giving me an outlet to help I can trust.

  9. 9
    median says:

    I grew up in a religious environment and was taught that I would go to hell if I didn’t believe in God and Jesus. Once I broke free of the mental straitjacket I was stuffed into at birth, I was pissed the fuck off. It took me about ten years to get it out of my system. Now I’m kind of at the “live and let live” stage, but only kind of. I think some religions detract from people’s lives more than it adds, and those people should feel free to leave if that’s the case. And if an occasional atheist tirade gives those oppressed people a way out, then that’s OK in my book.

  10. 10

    Add Sam Harris and Bill Maher to your list annoying atheists.

  11. 11
    ShadeTail says:

    I am a very stark atheist and I take no bullshit about any invisible magic sky fairy, but I agree completely that being an asshole about it just makes you, well, an asshole. Live and let live, I say, as long as they do the same.

  12. 12
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: I think this comment belongs in HillarR’s last post.

  13. 13

    @Omnes Omnibus: Devas* too. Especially, Shiva.

    * Hindu Gods, same root as deity.

  14. 14
    Jane2 says:

    Donated – glad to help in a small way.

  15. 15

    @efgoldman: Western belief systems? Didn’t all major religious traditions originate in the Middle East ( Islam, Christianity and Judaism) and the East (Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Jainism)

  16. 16
    Mary G says:

    I believe in God, but I don’t believe in religion. I have lots of company in my fellow preacher’s kids. Donated my mite. Wish there was a way to move some rain or water cross country.

  17. 17
    Teddy's Person says:

    Kicked in a bit for the folks in WV.

  18. 18
    xane says:

    Offered a little bit…blessings to y’all!

  19. 19
    CaseyL says:

    You’re a good egg, John Cole. I kicked in a few bucks.

  20. 20

    .@efgoldman: So I did notice that you are pointedly ignoring the religions of the East in your list of “good” belief systems.

  21. 21
    Mnemosyne says:


    I think sometimes that’s the disconnect between theists and atheists — it’s perfectly possible to think that there’s some kind of deity or afterlife but that all of the currently operating religions have got it wrong. Frankly, most of the genuinely devout people I’ve seen (like Jimmy Carter, Pope Francis, a local guy named Fr. Gregory Boyle, who puts former gang members back to work) are usually at least a little flexible about the rules of their own religion when it comes to what other people should do.

    It’s the ones who insist that their religion has the perfect set of rules for every possible situation and that every rule must be followed to the letter that you have to watch out for.

  22. 22
    Felonius Monk says:

    Okay, Cole. I put in some bucks. My parents honeymooned at the Greenbrier in 1940.

  23. 23
    WaterGirl says:


    Once in a while (not always) I try not to talk about things about which I know nothing.

    That sounds like a terrible plan on Balloon Juice. We would miss you!

  24. 24

    @efgoldman: Agreed about Carter.

    I will refrain from further discussions of belief systems henceforth.

    Don’t refrain because of what I said. Your answer makes total sense. I was just curious, that’s all.

  25. 25
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: @efgoldman: i was expecting to see some kind of fight on this thread, but I was not expecting this one.

  26. 26
    Kalimama says:


  27. 27
    WaterGirl says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: No one expects the Spanish inquisition.

  28. 28
    raven says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: I threw in some shit earlier about West Virginia wanting federal aid.

  29. 29
    dr. luba says:

    I’ve been an atheist since I began thinking for myself. I’ve never been militant, though–I leave that to the theists. And since religiosity (or lack of) may be genetic, I simply live and let live.

    I spend a month every other year working in a mission hospital in India; the people who work there with me are of many denominations, and include Muslims and Hindus. I am quite happy to work with people of faith to provide medical care to the poor. It’s amazing what can be accomplished when people set aside their differences and work towards a common goal.

    I tossed in a few bucks for the disciples; it would be more, but I am trying to save our summer camp (for orphans in Ukraine), so my cash and efforts are going there at the moment.

  30. 30
    Mornington Crescent says:

    Mitchell and Webb have proof there is no God.

  31. 31
    Felonius Monk says:


    I will refrain from further discussions of belief systems henceforth.

    Aw com’n, goldman. I’m not buying it. The way you’ve hammered the belief systems of several of our resident trolls lately belies your reticence. Keep up the good work. May FSM smile upon you.

  32. 32
    Gvg says:

    I had some conversation with my dad as a teenager where he told me it seemed to him that religion was another kind of test of character. He said that almost 50% of the people he knew who claimed to be religious were total hypocrits who didn’t live by their rules and the other half were really nice people. His examples kind of shocked me because he said a lot of the guys he worked with claimed to be religious but were cheating on their wives and also boasting of it to other guys. we had started the discussion about hard events being a test of character but I had not realized that even something considered good could be a test too. I am a lot older now I have never liked being preached at. I am not sure it’s actually religion that causes it because people will use almost any subject if they are inclined that way.
    I have always felt like an atheist and just didn’t believe from an early age but knew to keep quiet about it. I used to want to believe because I don’t really like being so apart from most people but I just can’t take it seriously. Besides some Christian principles strike me as wrong. Punishing anyone for something an ancestor did in not moral, as in Eve.

  33. 33
    Baud says:

    There is a Baud.

  34. 34
    p.a. says:

    Dad: “I think Christ was just a magician who ran out of tricks so people turned on him.”
    15 year old me: “But you go to church.”
    Dad: “It keeps your mother happy.”
    Me: hmmmmmmm

  35. 35
  36. 36
    RepubAnon says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: – I’ve always thought that was a great excuse for a pregnant girl: “No, Dad – really! This shower of gold poured into my room, and turned into Zeus! How could I say no?

  37. 37
    Betsy says:

    Christ’s love was and is shown in abundance to me by others; may heaven help me to do the same. Modest donation given and thanks Cole for the link.

  38. 38

    @RepubAnon: I love how Zeus always tried to get away with it, too. “Oh, just hanging out in this field getting drunk with a cow, dear. Nothing to see here.”

  39. 39
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @RepubAnon: Sure, but a fucking swan?

  40. 40
    redshirt says:

    One of the best gifts my parents gave me other than life is freedom from early indoctrination into religion. I was blissfully free of all churches since I was born, in large part because of how problematic religion was for their parents.

    On another note, let’s say hypothetically our entire Universe and everything in it is a simulation in some super advanced being’s computer; does that make the programmer God?

  41. 41
    Felonius Monk says:


    There is a Baud.

    But does Baud exist during a power outage? And if so, prove it.

  42. 42
    WaterGirl says:

    @efgoldman: And we are the better for it! (for you breaking your pledge)

    But we are also better for their being a Baud, so I guess it works either way.

  43. 43
    Baud says:

    @efgoldman: Just you wait. You’ll be seeing me in burnt toast soon enough.

    @Felonius Monk:

    But does Baud exist during a power outage?

    “Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.”

  44. 44
    Felonius Monk says:

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    Tunch devotees worship Ceiling Cat.

    I believe the First Commandment is: “I am the Lord, thy Tunch and thou shalt have no false felines before me.”

  45. 45

    @Felonius Monk: Pixels are just an abstraction layer far on top of the data itself, which at some level is on flash memory or a magnetic drive, so, sure, he exists when there’s no power.

  46. 46
    thruppence says:

    Kicked in my bit – they’re about 80% of the way to their modest goal.

  47. 47
    smike says:

    @RepubAnon: A thought experiment works for me, though.

    re Christianity (I was brought up Southern Baptist): Why would an omnipotent/omniscient entity create flawed images of himself knowing that he will have to punish them and then implant his own son/self on earth so that he can be killed in order to forgive his flawed creation, and then resurrect himself knowing that he really didn’t accomplish anything (remember the omnipotent/omniscient part?) because sins and blasphemers still exist. What would you think of the sort of entity who would do such a thing?

  48. 48
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @smike: There is the possibility that we are lab mice.

  49. 49
  50. 50
    Baud says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Or a very sophisticated version of SimCity.

  51. 51
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Baud: Hmmmm…

  52. 52
    Baud says:

    @efgoldman: No worries. I’m ecumenical when it comes to bread.

  53. 53
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @efgoldman: What do I need with an iPod?

  54. 54
    HinTN says:

    @smike: What part of “it’s a miracle” (AKA magical thinking) don’t you understand?

  55. 55
    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet says:

    @dr. luba: You’re a good egg, doc, to be doing that for so long. It must be heartbreaking to have such a huge mountain to climb this year. I kicked in a little. I wish I was able to do more.

    Best of luck!


  56. 56
    HinTN says:

    @efgoldman: Much better!

  57. 57
    smike says:

    @Baud: “Or a very sophisticated version of SimCity.”

    Is this Baud, really? Or is it Elon Musk? It is Elon, isn’t it?

  58. 58

    @dr. luba: Where in India, if you don’t mind my asking.

  59. 59
    Southern Goth says:

    The real conundrum here is that if you are an atheist, a vegan, and a crossfitter, which one do you tell people about first?

  60. 60
    OldDave says:

    Donation made. I hope it helps.

  61. 61
    HinTN says:

    Donated and shared on FB.

  62. 62
    HinTN says:

    @smike: The cat’s out of the bag now.

  63. 63
  64. 64
    KBS says:

    Donation made. I figure it’s the least I can do, since I don’t have to pay to read the blog.

  65. 65
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    @p.a.: There are traditions in which Jesus is considered a powerful magician.

  66. 66
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Changing water into wine is some powerful magic.

  67. 67
    dr. luba says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: Vellore, in Tamil Nadu. I help out in the LCECU (low cost effective care unit) of CMC–we serve the people of the slums, as opposed to the main hospital, which is a major medical center (and which subsidizes us).

    The south of India has much less communitarian violence here than in the north. The BJP does not rule here, and having many members of minority religions forces them to get along (Kerala, for instance, is only 54% Hindu). And, when christians are in the minority, they tend to be much nicer.

  68. 68
    Pogonip says:

    @Baud: Te Deum Baudamus
    Te Dominum confiteor.

  69. 69
    pat says:

    I am an atheist. My best friends are church people, and my very best friend is a conservative evangelical and we all get along fine because we have other common interests (music) and we do. not. discuss. religion. Or politics, for that matter.

  70. 70
    NCSteve says:

    I was raised a Disciple myself. I woke up one day in my early twenties and realized that I’d lost my faith and I’ve been an agnostic ever since. (Because it delights me to argue with atheists that atheism is a belief system “no it isn’t, it’s the absence of belief!” “Yes it is! Inherently unprovable assumptions are beliefs, not fact!” “Absence of evidence is evidence!” “Is not!” “Is too!” “Refusing to admit reality makes agnosticism a religion!” “Nyuh-uh! It’s an acknowledgement of inherent epistemological limitations!”). But my core values, my understanding of how we should to aspire to treat each other, are rooted in that denomination’s understanding of the Gospel.

    I reconnected with the minister who baptized me at an aunt’s funeral and was once again struck with a little of the doubt about my doubt that comes from knowing someone so intelligent and decent, so thoughtful, widely-read and well grounded in the real world can be so full of faith. I got over it quickly, but they’re good people. Every church has its resident assholes, of course, but they’re people who mostly do good and aspire to do good and live rightly and justly. I’ll take them over any pack of sneering, vicious supercilious Bill Maher type atheists anytime.

  71. 71
    Renie says:

    @redshirt: I gave that “gift” to both my kids though did teach much on right and wrong. My son did go to a Catholic high school cuz it had a better reputation than our local high school. From those 4 years he is now an atheist and despises the Catholic Church. He found the administration to be authoritarian and a lot of kids to be clearly prejudice towards those who were not as ‘religious’ as them. When he was older and we were discussing religions he told me he didn’t believe in Jesus Christ. Now I had 12 years of Catholic school and though I’m not religious at all today, the indoctrination was so deep in me I couldn’t get it around my head that he didn’t believe in Jesus. Just so weird.

  72. 72
    dr. luba says:

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: Thanks! We’ve raised money through our PayPal link and from my friends sending in checks–the GoFundMe is an alternative payment method that someone suggested. I think we’ve raised a couple of thousand so far (will have to check with the treasurer), plus 1800 from our Walk/Run. So we may be almost halfway there.

    I think what impressed me most is how many kids have told me that their two weeks at camp were the best two weeks of their life…….

  73. 73
    Emma says:

    Ok, popped in a few. I wish I could have done more.BTW, violently agnostic here. :)

  74. 74
    robert thompson says:

    I don’t comment often and I don’t wish to alarm anyone but I am currently considering calling in to the local ER. It happens a lot and every time I reconsider my “don’t give a shit about God or Jesus or whatever deity let’s you go to sleep at night” attitude. It never seems to allay my fear of the Big Sleep, but there are no atheists in foxholes. So I grab what ever I can. Going thru the treatment soon consumes all my attention and once again after being propped back up catch my breath and whistle past the pulpit. Humans are largely stupid things.

  75. 75
    hilzoy says:


  76. 76
    Ohio Mom says:

    @robert thompson: keep us posted. My feeling always is, if you think you have to go to the ER, you have to go to the ER. That is what it is there for.

  77. 77
    robert thompson says:

    @Ohio Mom: Oh Yeah, when pain gets pancreatitis bad you will go. But I have been there so many times that going there has killed my belief. Raised Southern Baptist ( Shudder ). So its hard to not keep the fire insurance up. Thanks for reply, am alone currently.

  78. 78
    redshirt says:

    @robert thompson: Go and regret it later, hopefully.

  79. 79
    J R in WV says:

    John, this is also on “This week in Defense….”


    During the amazing rainfall and thunderstorms we had here Wednesday night and all day Thursday, we depended on WeatherUnderground, NOAA NWS radar for Charleston WV, and Channel 13’s 13.2 digital radar images, which they run 24/7/365 so far. Sometimes we couldn’t get web updates, we connect via a sat system, and solid water interfered with the communication to the sat.

    Sometimes we could get a TV signal, over-the-air, showing the rain bands, which were mostly just north of Charleston. We live about 20 airline miles southwest of CRW. Seeing the warnings, boxes moving with the bright red and orange radar images across our neighboring counties, was heart-wrenching.

    Our next door neighbor was teaching in the eastern part of the state Wednesday. He drove through Richwood, a small old lumber town, mostly closed up now as business has mostly ended. The water was mostly gone, but the damage, roadways peeled up, boulders washed up against trees and buildings, small shops and restaurants erased away. He was held up by mudslides, guided by troopers trying to give the best advice they could in a rapidly changing situation.

    There are lots of small towns like this. My cousin’s post office was flooded, he wondered how that sleet or storm of night was going to work out.

    WeatherUnderground is a great service, and we depend on it when weather assaults us. I’m gonna repeat this comment on the Help WV thread.

    We donate to the Salvation Army, not because of their “Salvation”, but because they help everyone in a disaster zone, whether it’s a blanket, fresh water, a sandwich or coffee, lights for workers trying to deal with tragedy, whatever.

  80. 80

    @dr. luba: Never been to Vellore, been to Tirunelveli, Kanyakumari, Madurai, Ooty and Kodai. Have traveled much in Tamil Nadu.
    BJP is making inroads in the South too. Congress is a former shell of itself, too dependent on the Nehru dynasty.

  81. 81
    robert thompson says:

    @redshirt: Generally the proper advice. It’s not good to wait until you are dehydrated, makes one a “hard stick”.

  82. 82
    Lexiltucky says:

    Done. Thanks for the link, John !

  83. 83
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    @robert thompson: Third (at least) the recommendation that you head over there. Hope it’s nothing, or an easily fixable something.

  84. 84
    Ohio Mom says:

    @robert thompson: not to put too fine a point on it but (as you probably already know), pancreatitus can

    Say hi to to ER staff for us.

  85. 85
    Ohio Mom says:

    Hi Bella Q. Will be in touch shortly.
    Now my bedtime. Night all.

  86. 86
    robert thompson says:

    @Ohio Mom: Good Night and thanks

  87. 87
    smike says:

    @NCSteve: The theocrats are the ones to watch out for and resist. Otherwise, carry on with the ‘Bill Maher types’ sentiments.

  88. 88
    seaboogie says:

    Thanks for the link, Cole – today was payday, so I was able to send a few bucks. I’m surprised at how modest the request for funds was.

    I was raised Catholic, and around age 13 I quit being scared of God and started to pay attention to the message – much of which didn’t make sense to me, so I dropped it.

    I’ve had sufficient loss and grief and challenges in my life to force me to look both inward and outward. Mostly, I am just in communion with the Universe (which keeps it about as broad as possible), and find solace in Buddhist (Thich Nhat Han) and Hindu practices – I’m headed off to Sonoma Ashram tomorrow for Babji’s satsang. I find it helpful to sit amongst well-intentioned, thougthful people who are just trying to figure out the best way to cope with their own lives and assist others without telling anyone else what they should be doing. Both the Buddhist and Hindu traditions and practices (as I follow them) are respectful of other religions and freely refer to them.

    I do, in fact, believe that there must be one universal truth, and I surely do not know what it is. However, when I am struggling with something, I put it out there to the Universe and ask for help – and when I frame it wisely, assistance and insight usually arrive, sometimes in ways that I had not considered. Being open to all possibilities helps a lot.

  89. 89
    Jane2 says:

    @robert thompson: Go….and keep us posted.

  90. 90
    RaflW says:

    I’m a UU, but I graduated from TCU, the Disciple’s university. It was too country-club 80s Republican for me, but that was the student body. I’ve come to find over the past several years that the denomination is pretty progressive and does good work in the world. Though they are also in the large swath of mainline, non-evangelical Christianity that is hemorrhaging members.

    Anyway, hope the gofundme does well.

  91. 91
    JimV says:

    I suspect a lot of the Dawkins bashing is for “ballance” (“both sides do it”). The difference is he has evidence and reason when he writes a few books and gives talks where invited to and answers interview questions sincerely. Religionists have written thousands of books, and given many thousands of talks and interviews and have their own TV channels, and have stopped me on the street and come to my house and are teaching my nephews and nieces that the Theory of Evolution is wrong (at Houghton College, which is accredited by NYS as a source of high-school Biology teachers – I looked it up). I can’t walk a mile in this small town without passing two or three churches with their propaganda on signboards. I’m happy that a few people are pushing back.

    (I buy at their BBQ chicken sales because I like the chicken. The last one went to fund their Daily Vacation Bible School, which was one of the banes of my youth.)

    I haven’t seen or heard a lot of Dawkins: read and enjoyed “The Ancestor’s Tale”, which did not mention religion, have seen enough debate about “The God Delusion” that I feel I know most of it without reading it, and have watched two of his talks on YouTube. From that sample I don’t recall him being uncivil.

    Christopher Hitchens, now there was a bonafide a-hole.

  92. 92
    Kay Eye says:

    Glad we were able to pitch in. Our Texas hill country has had some horrible floods and the devastation is horrifying.
    Biblical literalists choke the life out of Christianity. In Texas they try hard to choke the life out of public education as well.

  93. 93
    lucslawyer says:

    Calling Dawkins, Hitchens or Harris an asshole is like calling a woman a bitch for standing up for herself. Do this: head over to youtube, search Dawkins, Randolph-Macon, part 2 (the question and answer section) watch, and then tell me who the assholes are. I’ll take any of those 3 over the religionists any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

  94. 94
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @lucslawyer: Get over yourself. Fundamentalist evangelists on either side are assholes. Moi, I don’t believe, but I don’t chose to disbelieve.

  95. 95
    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet says:

    @lucslawyer: Hitchens was a brilliant writer, but that didn’t keep him from being wrong about Iraq.

    Dawkins knows how to present a sound scientific argument about evolution, but that doesn’t prevent him from being a troglodyte when it comes to some of his opinions about feminism.

    Harris can present a sensible argument about the problems with Christianity, but that doesn’t keep him from being just short of a paranoid crank when it comes to Islam.

    Don’t mistake great writing, or being able to frame a persuasive argument, for being correct. You know who else could give a persuasive speech, right?…


    (Who is a great fan of Bertrand Russell, but he was wrong about some things too. No one is infallible.)

  96. 96
    Eric says:

    I was quickly scanning the front page and read this as help out VW. And I was like “huh, why should we help those lying scum?”

    Glad to see I misread…kicking in a few bucks.

  97. 97
    lucslawyer says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

  98. 98
    lucslawyer says:

    Again, lol. Now yours is an asshole argument.

  99. 99
    lucslawyer says:

    I’m probably wasting my time but try this:

  100. 100
    lucslawyer says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    Man, if you are comparing John Hagee, Jimmy Swaggart, Franklin Graham, Pat Robertson, (Jerry Falwell, D. James Kennedy) et al to Hitchens, Dawkins, or Harris you have a serious problem. You really sound like a butthurt religionist.

  101. 101
    Hillary Rettig says:

    I’m a vegan *and* an atheist – do I win twice? ;-)

    Anyhoo, I donated.

    As it happens, we will be driving down right through that area in a few days with a big minivan. On Route 70 an 64, passing through Beckley etc. I wonder if there are any donations we could get from our area that we could drop off. I have no idea what would be useful. If someone knowledgeable could email me that would be great.

  102. 102
    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet says:

    @lucslawyer: I thought you were probably a lost cause. I appreciate the quick confirmation!


  103. 103
    Betty Cracker says:

    Happy to kick in some cash for ‘Eers in need. I am an atheist too, but my hubby and I were married by a Disciples of Christ minister (friend of a friend).

  104. 104
    lucslawyer says:

    It is really hard to know how to respond to a lame argument like yours. Did you even try the link or are you satisfied with your opinion of Harris based on your link?

  105. 105
    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet says:

    @lucslawyer: I learned long ago that people who enter a conversation dropping words like “asshole” aren’t interested in conversation. Your protestations of confusion aren’t persuasive.



  106. 106
    Deb says:

    I don’t care about anyone’s religion preference. But Greenbrier county has been my hometown for 35 years & I do appreciate you doing the go fund me for them my little sister,friends and other family lost everything some even their lives. It’s a horrible mess there so anyone that can donate trust me it’s greatly appreciated! If there’s people who don’t have means to do the gofundme message me I can give you addresses & phone numbers of people where you can mail stuff or whatever. Again thanks to everyone!!!!!!

  107. 107
    Deb says:

    @Hillary Rettig: I’m from the area originally all my friends and family are in Greenbrier CO as I moved in January. My little sister friends and family are in need of basic hygiene toiletries cleaning supplies cloths shoes furniture anything you could even imagine it could be used ANYTHING!!!

  108. 108
    lucslawyer says:

    I wasn’t the one who originally used the word. Cole referred to Dawkins as an asshole and I was disagreeing. I am not automatically discounting Cole’s opinion because he used the word. I posted information which I believe disproves Cole’s opinion. In addition, I did not refer to you but to your opinion in using the word. I have been involved in a lot of online back and forth and if I just dropped any such interaction because I was called a name (me, not my opinion), I doubt that the total of that interaction would be more than a few seconds. The reason I used the word in describing your argument is because it smacks of intellectual laziness – a character flaw, if indeed there is one, means that someone’s opinion can be automatically discounted. If that were the case, few if any would be worthy of attention. If you are interested, I will explain why I believe Hitchens’ opinion of the Iraq war does not make him an asshole, as well as addressing Dawkins and Harris. If you don’t agree, fine, but don’t try to use a word as cover for not making the effort.

  109. 109
    John Cole says:

    @lucslawyer: Richard Dawkins is a full fledged asshole. I’m not doing your damned homework for you. It has nothing to do with his “evidence,” it has everything to do with him being a jackass to women.

  110. 110
    lucslawyer says:

    @John Cole:
    Since when did I ask you to do anything. If you want to believe he is an asshole, go right ahead – I disagree. I have watched a lot of video of Dawkins interacting in debates, read his books, and I was never struck by any misogynistic tendencies on his part. Now, if you wish to take up your precious time and direct me to evidence to the contrary, be my guest, but until then I will stand by my opinion. And it does seem that you are taking a conversation in which you were not really an active participant rather personally. Oh, and as far as that “anything that makes people happy and gives them comfort is worth keeping” – I certainly disagree with that.

  111. 111
    Keith G says:

    I donated to Hillary twice in the last 7 days, so my petty cash fund is dry until next PD.

    When I heard the awful news about WV, I did think about how good it was that some folks will be getting important help from a federal government that they hate.

    I have an deeper opinion on this topic, but will keep it to myself.

  112. 112
    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet says:


    I posted information which I believe disproves Cole’s opinion.

    I think I see the problem.

    You seem to think that Cole (and apparently I and others who you are disagreeing with) is/are somehow misinformed and forming those opinions based on misinformation.

    JC can speak quite well for himself, but as for me, I’m quite well aware of their statements and opinions and arguments (as I indicated above). You’re not going to convince me to waste my time reviewing their statements. There’s nothing to “prove” to me. Similarly, I’m not going to convince you that you’re doing a very poor job of arguing your position here as you apparently cannot understand fairly clear standard English, and it’s pretty clear that you have no interest in considering that your heroes on this topic might be wrong.

    You’re wasting your time here, so you might want to consider posting somewhere else.


  113. 113
    lucslawyer says:

    Well, now I am getting a sense of what men like Dawkins, Harris, and Hitchens have, and had, to put up with when confronted by self-satisfied, smug, and condescending religious folk. Have a good one.

  114. 114
    John Cole says:

    @lucslawyer: I’m a fucking atheist. Did you not read the post?

  115. 115
    Harold Samson says:

    Am sure Dawkins doesn’t care a whit for what John Cole thinks.

    And I’ve never heard or seen quotes of Dawkins saying anything I disagree with. While Dawkins may not always be “very nice,” haven’t seen him descend to the level of vitriolic nastiness on regular display here.

Comments are closed.