Last Exit Before Palookaville

Bernie Sanders is staging a virtual campaign rally tonight. According to Maddow, the event won’t include a concession and endorsement of Hillary Clinton. Early indications are that Sanders will attempt to settle scores and assert co-leadership on policy with the actual winner of the primary all the way to Philly.

How will the party respond to its rogue runner up? Here’s what I’d say on the process issues if I ran the zoo:

1. Debbie Wasserman Schultz stays. Look, I’m not her biggest fan either, okay? But she’s moving on after the election anyway, so demands for her scalp now are petty score-settling. Besides, she serves at the pleasure of the president, not the 2nd place finisher in a party primary.

2. We’ll revisit superdelegates before the next presidential primary but after 2016. Superdelegates had fuck-all to do with the outcome in 2008 and 2016. But if the fondest hopes of the Berniacs come true, we’ll need superdelegates this year to serve as deus ex machina to hand the nomination to Sanders, right? Issue tabled.

3. The states get to decide whether to hold open or closed primaries. Joining a party is free. If you’re in a closed primary state and want to have a say in who gets the Democratic nomination, join the fucking party! You can always unenroll after the primary if you’re afraid of establishment cooties. If you have quibbles about time requirements, etc., join the party and try to change them. And if you care about small “d” democracy, agitate at the state level to abolish the patently undemocratic caucuses. (Oh wait…)

As for policy issues, is the Sanders campaign even talking about them anymore? If so, the Sanders people should hash that shit out using the extraordinarily generous allotment of platform seats ebil witch DWS assigned them. But the primary is over, and Clinton won. She gets to campaign on her policies, however unfair that may seem.

Contrary to the opinion of some Sanders detractors here, I think Sanders has some genuine accomplishments he can point to in the race. He eschewed super PACs and still managed to raise an astonishing amount of money. His surprising competitiveness kept his signature issues front and center throughout the primaries.

I don’t think he dragged Clinton to the left as much as he imagines since she was mostly there anyways; their Senate records weren’t that far apart, and President Obama’s success and the Republican fail parade has allowed the party to more boldly claim its traditional turf. But arguably Sanders made Clinton’s previous support for TPP untenable and compelled her to focus on the minimum wage and college tuition more than she would have otherwise.

Sanders’ biggest asset in the primary was his ability to appeal to young voters. That’s important. But he’s busily squandering the value of his base by insinuating that the process was unfair and that he (and they) were robbed, thus removing their motivation to vote for the Democrat in the general election.

Even if you take the hardcore Sandersite view that Clinton is a principles-free triangulator (which I emphatically do not), does it make sense to remove your bargaining chips from the table and force Clinton to rely on peeling off disaffected Republicans to beat Trump? How does that advance progressive causes?

But there’s still time to take the last exit before Palookaville. That our opponent is a stunningly malignant buffoon should be all the motivation a person who puts country before self needs to do the right thing.

Sadly, I no longer expect that Sanders will. But happily, I don’t think it will matter all that much anyway.






359 replies
  1. 1

    The parties must choose candidates by secret and opaque means. The candidates’ names must not be published, as they do not matter. All campaigning must be banned. Scrutin de liste for all collective bodies. On the day, give each voter one red ball and one blue ball.

  2. 2
    MazeDancer says:

    He has to concede and pledge support to nominee before Philly. No concession, no convention speech. It is not too much to ask. Sanders lost. It wasn’t close.

    Bernie probably doesn’t realize any speech that doesn’t praise Hillary and focus on the election risks looking as foolish as Chris Christie did only talking about himself during his supposed Romney support speech.

  3. 3
    Schlemazel Khan says:

    I would tread VERY carefully on that superdelegate issue. If the GOP had a safety valve like that they could have stopped the Drumpfenstein monster. Remember, those SD are not magic unicorn fairies, they are elected Democrats who have to worry about their election chances (with a few exceptions like former Prez Clinton). They have every reason to be concerned. They have not made a difference in any nomination yet but if the day came that a Democratic Trump rose up (Pasta forfend!) They could derail him. Never make a change simply because of convenience, look at its intent and it usefullnes over the course of time.

  4. 4
    Poopyman says:

    @Schlemazel Khan:

    They could derail him. Never make a change simply because of convenience, look at its intent and it usefullnes over the course of time.

    Yes. Specifically, what events caused the superdelegate class to be created in the first place? Do we want to go back to the possibility of that (which I don’t know what it was) happening again? What are the unintended consequences/risks?

  5. 5
    Cacti says:

    Nope.

    The guy who lost big doesn’t get to parachute in and remake the party he’s belonged to for about 5 minutes. Coffee is for closers, Bern.

    If Democrats wanted to be an independent democratic socialist party, they’d have chosen Bernie.

    They didn’t.

  6. 6
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    Debbie Wasserman Schultz stays. Look, I’m not her biggest fan either, okay? But she’s moving on after the election anyway, so demands for her scalp now are petty score-settling. Besides, she serves at the pleasure of the president, not the 2nd place finisher in a party primary.

    Actually, if the word of Wikipedia is anything to go by, the DNC Chair doesn’t serve at the “pleasure of the president” (although I daresay he/she could work to get a chair removed if it seemed politically important to do so). But you are right, it is certainly not Bernie’s call.

    The DNC is composed of the chairs and vice-chairs of each state Democratic Party committee and over 200 members elected by Democrats in all 50 states and the territories. Its chairperson is elected by the committee.

  7. 7
    different-church-lady says:

    What do you folks recommend for breakfast popcorn? Maybe some brown sugar and cinnamon sprinkled over the top of the bowl?

  8. 8
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Schlemazel Khan: That makes some sense, but on the other hand, if a party overrode a popularly elected nominee, wouldn’t it be blowing up its chances in the general anyway? We may get an opportunity to test this hypothesis if the Republican establishment attempts to cast off Trump. Anyway, I wonder if the alleged benefit is worth the appearance of undemocratic shenanigans.

  9. 9

    Time for bed head Bernie to go home. I hear that Vermont is nice this time of the year. More proof that having crazy hair doesn’t make you Einstein. Bye bye BS.

  10. 10
    PST says:

    My wife, who is a close demographic match for DWS, lived in south Florida for many years and says that she is very popular among a large class of loyal Democratic voters. In this most important of swing states, a gratuitous insult to DWS to placate Sanders might prove to be a big mistake. Open vs. closed primary is a matter of state law, not party rule, I believe, but that might not be true everywhere.

  11. 11
    Litlebritdifrnt says:

    Where I think Betty’s term “Combeover Caligula” is good, I think it has just been topped with “Cheeto Jesus” from Rick Wilson.

  12. 12
    dr. bloor says:

    @Poopyman: They’re the result of McGovern’s and/or Carter’s candidacies, depending on who you read. Essentially the “Block the Drumpf” tactic that Shlemazel outlined, albeit for a couple of far more benign guys.

  13. 13
    RobertDSC-iPhone 6 says:

    He should get nothing at all. Get the fuck out, you tired old man.

  14. 14
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt: I first heard “Combover Caligula” from Anne Laurie, FTR. And “Cheeto” should be “Cheato,” obvs.

  15. 15
    Mike in DC says:

    Let the supers go away for 2020 onwards. Get rid of caucuses. I generally think we should have closed primaries, but that it should be easy to register and participate in them.
    Let the platform committee do its job.
    Bernie needs to understand that he is negotiating the terms of his surrender, but the longer he drags it out, the weaker his bargaining position will get. The bulk of his voters have already moved on.

  16. 16
    dr. bloor says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    That makes some sense, but on the other hand, if a party overrode a popularly elected nominee, wouldn’t it be blowing up its chances in the general anyway?

    This might be true more often than not, but during the current election cycle I think this argument is vastly oversold, mostly because it dismisses the hatred that Trump supporters have for HRC. They’ll vote for their total-loser-sank-my-boat brothers-in-law to make sure she doesn’t get into the White House.

  17. 17
    Poopyman says:

    @Betty Cracker: If a significant portion of the party’s electorate bothered to vote in the primaries, yes. But with the usual piddling turnout in US primaries I rather think that a party has a reasonable rationale for overturning primary results.

  18. 18

    @Litlebritdifrnt: Poor Jeebus, wasn’t it enough that he died for our sins? Now he has to suffer the ignominy of being compared to Agent Orange.

  19. 19
    Betty Cracker says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Also from Wiki:

    On April 5, 2011, Vice President Joe Biden announced that Wasserman Schultz was President Barack Obama’s choice to succeed Tim Kaine as the 52nd Chair of the Democratic National Committee. Until she assumed office, current DNC Vice-Chair Donna Brazile served as the interim Chair of the Democratic National Committee. Wasserman Schultz was confirmed at the meeting of the DNC held on May 4, 2011, in Washington, D.C.

  20. 20
    The Other Bob says:

    Sanders’ biggest asset in the primary was his ability to appeal to young voters.

    Is there actual evidence of this?

  21. 21
    Schlemazel Khan says:

    @Poopyman:
    It grew out of the 68 and 72 conventions. There was a belief the risk of a small band of loons tipping the scales was real. Those stories you read about how the Randians behaved 4 years ago? How they dominated caucuses by dragging meetings out till everyone else went home, shutting out everyone else and pissing off Republicans? Well I lived through that in 68 and 72 with McCarthy clowns. They damaged the party here in Minnesota, it would have been so much worse if that asshole had managed to pull a Trump.

  22. 22
    Gravenstone says:

    They’ve toned this shit down now, but I damn near popped a blood vessel this morning when I opened up CNN and was met with a banner headline decrying Obama as being “too ALOOF!” in his response to the Orlando terror attack. I searched the site for a contact listing in order to ream some poor intern out about the editorial decision (knowing a rage mail would get no further), but alas no such information was found. I really hate our pathetic excuse for “news media” these days.

  23. 23

    I like the super delegates, I am sure right now Republicans would have loved to have them.

  24. 24
    Schlemazel Khan says:

    @Betty Cracker:
    Do you think the GOP would be worse off if they could could block a 1st ballot win for Drumpf? Yeah those people would be pissed off but that could be dealt with & not destroy down-ticket chances. This thing is shaping up to be a total disaster for the GOP (by the grace of Pasta)

  25. 25
    Chyron HR says:

    No, no, no, Sanders is right, the Superdelegates are awful and need to go away, like, today. In fact, Obama should make an announcement at a podium flanked by Clinton and Sanders: No superdelegates, and (of course) Hillary is now unquestionably the nominee.

    I’m sure Bernie will be smiling at his victory. Because he hates the superdelegate system so much.

  26. 26
    Geeno says:

    I support the idea of the super delegates for much the same reason I support closed primaries. You want say in the party? Join the party. If you’ve done yeoman’s labor on behalf of the party, you get a special say on how things play out.
    At the end of the day – the Democratic Party is a private club and can make whatever rules it wants to ensure its nominees represent the party membership and goals.
    That said, I’d love to see caucuses eliminated.

  27. 27

    As mentioned by famed country singer Brad Paisley in a mostly forgettable Prairie Home Companion sketch.

    This has to be my new favorite random quote on BJ.

    Bernie, go home, you’re drunk.

  28. 28
    Cacti says:

    Congressman Raul Grijalva (AZ-3) shifts support from Bernie to Hillary.

    Mark Murray Verified account ‏@mmurraypolitics
    Per @chucktodd, Rep. Raul Grijalva — an early endorser of Sanders — is now backing endorsing Hillary Clinton

    Bern is quickly running out of friends.

  29. 29
    dr. bloor says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: They’re perfectly fine as long as you’re not stupid enough to buy into the Bernista caricature that they are, by definition, nothing but hopelessly corrupt party hacks who are only in it to stuff their pockets.

  30. 30
    Schlemazel Khan says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt:
    I loved to image he tweeted to go with it. SOmeone carved a circus peanut to look like the Drumpf

  31. 31
    Betty Cracker says:

    @dr. bloor: If I understand you correctly, I agree; one of my biggest fears is that the GOP will jettison Trump and nominate someone who doesn’t spend all day punching himself in the dick. Against an opponent with Clinton’s high negatives, that person would have a fighting chance, especially with our crappy Beltway press.

    But this is a really unusual situation, no? I’m not convinced having that mechanism in place for a black swan event outweighs the distrust it sows. Maybe it does. I’m just not sure.

  32. 32
    Patrick says:

    I like how you emphasize your points with ‘fuck’. Very effective.

  33. 33
    amk says:

    He has shown that he has no clue so far. Let’s see if he has no class either.

  34. 34
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:

    Bernie Sanders lost on Super Tuesday when it was clear he would not be able to appeal to the Democratic base, then started whining about everything being so unfair. He lost the plot, and has been exposed as the scoldy useless PITA everyone who works with him knows. As far as his message, color me unimpressed – he’s been giving the same speech since the 70s, from the perspective of an old white male from a white white state who refuses to acknowledge the role racism plays. Of course the fraud only complains about the process under which he didn’t win, and not about caucuses which are truly an undemocratic shit show. He’s rendered himself irrelevant.

    I couldn’t care less what happens to him, and Jane Sanders has a date with karma back in Burlington.

  35. 35
    Poopyman says:

    @Gravenstone: Yeah, I pointed it out in the early morning open thread, but didn’t open it until about an hour ago, got one paragraph in, felt my blood vessels start to pop, and shut it fast after catching the author’s name. Who the fuck is Stephen Cullinson and how did this opinion/hit piece get put on the front page? There were no facts to be found in the little I read.

  36. 36
    WJS says:

    Waiting for Bernie Sanders to do the right thing is like waiting for Trump to say something that doesn’t sound crazy.

  37. 37
    amk says:

    @Betty Cracker: If those who slog for the party are not rewarded and recognized in some meaningful way, then how does a party attract work ants?

  38. 38
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Hmmmmm, interesting apparent discrepancy. So unlike Wikipedia! /

    Anyhow, as I suggested, the President can obviously influence the process if s/he wants to. I hadn’t realised it was quite that blatant, though.

  39. 39
    WJS says:

    @The Other Bob: There is no evidence of this. The San Francisco Chronicle had a great story on this–they didn’t show up to vote, but they loved the rallies. Actual civic responsibility was not a factor for the Sanders crowd.

  40. 40
    Shell says:

    when I opened up CNN and was met with a banner headline decrying Obama as being “too ALOOF!”

    I thought they were calling his previous speech ‘a tirade’. So which is it, CNN?

  41. 41
    Schlemazel Khan says:

    Here is the thing Sanders needs to understand:
    If he remains anti-Clinton or very weak in support and
    Clinton wins: “Yeah Bernie, you were no help when we needed you and we won without you, we owe you 2 things, jack and shit
    Clinton loses (Pasta Forfend): We could have used you asshole, your fingerprints are on the knife so don’t ask for our help asshole.

    If he goes all in for Clinton:
    Clinton wins: Thanks for the hand, I know it must have been a tough pill to swallow, what can we do to show our gratitude?
    that other thing: OK, so maybe we need to work together to get over the top, how do we do that?

    There is a way to play this smart & a way to cut your own throat. How is Sanders going to play this?

  42. 42
    germy says:

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: Jane Sanders was present during his meeting with HRC. She is described as a key advisor and I wonder if she is the reason for his dead-enderism…

    Somewhat like Yoko goading John into bed-ins and bagism?
    Or Yoko telling John “Good idea to release a record called ‘Woman is the N****r of the World’ and let me sing on it.”

    [ducks]

  43. 43
    dmsilev says:

    The apparent fact that Bernie is holding out over process complaints makes him seem small. Hell, not just ‘seem’, it makes him small. Most of the country is going to read a news story of “Sanders refuses to concede because too many primaries were closed, not open” and will simply have their eyes glaze over in boredom. Sanders’ campaign caught fire because of the policies he was advocating for, not because of process minutiae.

    I’ve been negative on Sanders for a while now, but honestly this is more sad than anything else.

  44. 44
    Schlemazel Khan says:

    It should be remembered that McCarty sold that HHH=Nixon bullshit right up until the evening before the election when he said “I suppose I’ll vote for Hubert”. He was playing the same bullshit as Nader in 00 (and he was as much a Dem as Nader so no surprise). Neither was rewarded for their assholery. Not by the party and not by the nation

  45. 45

    @dr. bloor: I know everyone likes to take pot shots at politicians but politics is not an easy vocation.

  46. 46
    martian says:

    Has Bernie conceded Iowa yet? Nah? Because Hillary’s minions totally cheated on the coin tosses. And the grudging apology over the DNC data breach quickly followed by a lawsuit over the slap on the wrist penalty they got? How much fundraising did they milk out of that unjust oppression and categorical proof that DWS is out to get them? How many conspiracy theories sprang from that event?

    Bernie is now who he has always been. Bernie does Bernie. I would love to return to my former good opinion of him, but I now think my opinion was based on nothing more than a fondness for the kind of curmudeonly truth-teller he seemed to be and a sort of liberal, sentimental brand loyalty. Ooh, Socialism! You never see that anymore, it’s so hard to find around here!

  47. 47
    dmsilev says:

    @Shell: An aloof tirade of course. Duh.

  48. 48
    magurakurin says:

    Sadly, I no longer expect that Sanders will. But happily, I don’t think it will matter all that much anyway.

    This is where I am. Also is there any honest person who believes Sanders would be pushing these changes to the nomination process if he had won in tge exact manner that Clinton has.

  49. 49
    SenyorDave says:

    If Sanders ends up not playing nice and the Democrats take the Senate, they can give Sanders the Chair of the “Keep the Senate Toilets Clean” Committee. That will work out well for him since the office they assign him should be located in one of the Senate rest rooms.

  50. 50
    hovercraft says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    Yes they actually vote for the DNC chair, but they are basically a rubber stamp for whomever the president chooses. So once again Bernie would need those pesky establishment types who he has been so nice to, to give her the boot.

  51. 51
    Cacti says:

    @Schlemazel Khan:

    How is Sanders going to play this?

    The stupid way.

    Sanders entire public life is based on being against things. He’s an ineffectual protest person.

  52. 52
    Emma says:

    @Betty Cracker: See, I’m not afraid of that. Trump would go ballistic, his supporters would lose their minds and the blood will flow in the streets. At this point, the Republican establishment is the proverbial man riding the tiger.

  53. 53
    germy says:

    OT

    For those men and women enslaved by the Schuyler family in the 17th and 18th century, there was no Emancipation Proclamation, no Juneteenth Celebration.

    This weekend, however, the remains of 14 people held in bondage by one of Colonial New York’s most prominent households will finally be afforded a small degree of the respect they never experienced in life thanks to the Schuyler Flatts African Burial Ground Project. The remains of the 14 will lie in state at the Schuyler Mansion in downtown Albany from noon until 8 p.m. on Friday, and then will be reinterred in a special burial ceremony at St. Agnes Cemetery in the town of Colonie from 11 a.m. until noon on Saturday. The public is invited to both events.

    “I wanted to treat my African-American ancestors with some of the dignity and respect they didn’t get when they were alive,” said Evelyn Kamili King, an Albany native who resurrected the burial project a little more than a year ago. “So many wonderful people came together and pitched in to get this done. It became my mission. It was something I felt I really needed to do, and I’m so honored to fulfill my mission and see it all come together with a beautiful burial ceremony at St. Agnes Cemetery.”

  54. 54
  55. 55
    Betty Cracker says:

    @The Other Bob: Yes. He wins young voters by astonishing margins. Doesn’t mean they won’t vote for Hillary in the general, but they unquestionably preferred Sanders in the primary.

  56. 56
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Poopyman:

    Who the fuck is Stephen Cullinson and how did this opinion/hit piece get put on the front page?

    He is a “Senior Enterprise Reporter,” whatever the fuck that may be, and he has a very punchable face.

  57. 57
    Cacti says:

    @SenyorDave:

    If Sanders ends up not playing nice and the Democrats take the Senate, they can give Sanders the Chair of the “Keep the Senate Toilets Clean” Committee. That will work out well for him since the office they assign him should be located in one of the Senate rest rooms.

    I was thinking he could be the chair and sole member of the “Clean the pigeon shit from the Capitol steps with a toothbrush Committee”.

  58. 58
    jeffreyw says:

    @different-church-lady: Parmesan and fresh ground pepper.

  59. 59
    dmsilev says:

    @RobertDSC-iPhone 6:

    He should get nothing at all.

    …Not even the fee for the gaming license, which Hillary would appreciate if Sanders would put up personally.

  60. 60
    NotMax says:

    Drum major of the March Toward Irrelevance.

  61. 61
    SenyorDave says:

    The one thing that don’t believe will happen is Sanders supporters going for Trump. One big thing that Clinton has going for is that Trump does not give anyone a reason to vote for him unless you are already a supporter. People I know who hate HRC are saying they’ll vote for her to stop Trump.

  62. 62
    magurakurin says:

    @Betty Cracker: It doesnt ensure against a black swan because we cant know just how many we would need. It is possible that even 714 supers would not be enough. I would keep the supers but reduce their number to elected officials, distinguished leaders, and just two DNC members from each state. Then bind them like state wide delegates by proptional vote. If a second round of voting is needed this leaders will be on the floor.

  63. 63
    hovercraft says:

    @Gravenstone:
    After he speaks in Orlando today and meets with the families, the will say he’s become really good at these tragedies and this mornings aloofness story will be gone until the next time. 24 hour news cycle must be fed.

  64. 64
    Corner Stone says:

    @germy:

    who resurrected the burial project a little more than a year ago

    Sheesh, talk about poor word choice. I think this belongs in the Cheato Jesus thread.

  65. 65
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:

    @germy:

    I have a visceral dislike for Jane Sanders. I think she’s a shameless grifter, and all the questions about the tax returns and failure to timely file personal financial disclosure forms with the FEC points to her use of Bernie as a means to get her hand in the cookie jar. She’s whispering in his ear that he can keep raising money, I’m sure, and the old fool is way too willing to believe his own bullshit. It would be way too much schadenfreude to see her get indicted, and have their tax returns released which shows how successful she’s been at parlaying his influence into personal wealth by cheating college students and their parents, and then again by taking their money in $27 increments to pay herself (themselves) handsomely.

  66. 66
    Poopyman says:

    @Emma:

    At this point, the Republican establishment is the proverbial man riding the tiger bear.

    Another link between Trump and Putin!

  67. 67
    Corner Stone says:

    I was extremely tired of this primary starting months ago. It has now completed. There is approximately zero reason to ever mention anything Bernie Sanders ever does or does not do, again.
    “It has ceased to be.”

  68. 68
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @martian:

    I would love to return to my former good opinion of him, but I now think my opinion was based on nothing more than a fondness for the kind of curmudeonly truth-teller he seemed to be and a sort of liberal, sentimental brand loyalty.

    He could have gone a long way to restoring my former (long-ago, now) good opinion of him if he had shown up on the Senate floor yesterday and joined his Democratic colleagues in filibustering for a modicum of attention to gun safety.

    But he didn’t.

  69. 69

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: On an entirely shallow note, she needs a hair cut.

  70. 70
    NotMax says:

    @germy

    resurrected the burial project

    Nominee for the awkward phrase of the week award.

  71. 71
    hovercraft says:

    @Shell:
    Both.
    Aloof tirade.
    Weak tyrant.
    Don’t you know that he is all things at once.

  72. 72
    Corner Stone says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Mein Gott! That is indeed a face in need of a knuckle sandwich. However, he places well outside the top 5.

  73. 73
    aimai says:

    @Mike in DC: I like the Supers. I like them a lot. I think they offer a kind of ballast in close races. And the losers always think it was close. Bernie’s supporters literally think that a loss of 400 delegates and millions of primary voters is “close” enough for them to demand control of the convention. Absent supers as make weight you’d need to rejigger the delegate system so that it is always a blow out or you will continue to suffer from sore losers like Bernie’s people demanding extra concessions.

    I think, contra Bernie’s demands, that the next time anyone runs in the Democratic Primary they need to sign an oath to concede after the primary and before the convention, and also that they will support the candidate wholeheartedly. I see absolutely no reason that Bernie was ever allowed to run until he was forced, Clockwork Orange style, to watch Hillary’s concession speech and her nomination for Barack Obama over and over and over until he figured out how the grown ups do it.

    Parenthetically I wrote two blog posts about this issue over at No More Mr. Nice Blog and if anyone wants to come over and give me a hand they can be found under the headings Brass Balls. Huge Ego. Not Trump and The Judgement of Solomon.

  74. 74
    Eric U. says:

    triangulation worked for Bill Clinton because he was dealing with a number of Republicans that still gave a shit what people thought. Now they have gerrymandered their districts and gotten rid of earmarks, they don’t have to worry about people in the mushy middle.

  75. 75
    Corner Stone says:

    @SenyorDave:

    Trump does not give anyone a reason to vote for him unless you are already a supporter.

    His campaign has been a clinic on illustrating the “Baked into the Cake” theory of political support.

  76. 76
    Kropadope says:

    @Geeno:

    I support closed primaries. You want say in the party? Join the party.

    We only need 32% of registered voters to support our candidates in a two party system, right?

  77. 77
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    Ik, r? Shouldn’t she be able to afford a good bra, too?

    P.S. I can always count on you, as a woman of a certain age, to wallow with me in the mean girl shallow end.

  78. 78
    aimai says:

    @martian: I love that last point “oo…socialism…you never see that around here anymore!” I refer to it as an epicurean approach to politics. Its niche brand loyalty by early adopters of trendy fads, mistaken for nobility and high minded ideological purity. But its really just a kind of aesthetic, curator’s, stance on politics while the rest of us are doing life and death.

  79. 79
    dww44 says:

    @@Betty Cracker: Morning Joe himself was making a strong plea this morning for Ryan and McConnell, as the highest elected Republicans, with their minions behind them, to gird their loins and confront Trump publicly and demand that he begin to run a disciplined campaign. If Trump didn’t, then delegates would be able to go to the convention, change the rules, and nominate someone else. He couldn’t get Michael Steele and John Kasich to join him in his demand, even tho he sweetened the pot by saying that the Donald donated to HRC’s 2008 campaign and was, by his actions, donating to her campaign in 2016. In my household we are believing that there’s a really good chance that Trump won’t make it to/through the convention.

    OTOH, I happen to think that Super delegates are not a bad thing. Let the party workers decide.

  80. 80
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Corner Stone:

    the top 5

    Trump, Cruz, Shkreli, and ….. ….. ? Who are your choices?

    ETA: I guess I’d also have to include the two older Trump sons, mostly on the basis of their smug mugs when they killed those beautiful African animals.

  81. 81
    JasonF says:

    @germy:

    We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal. And when I meet Thomas Jefferson, I’mma compel him to include non-whites in the sequel!

  82. 82
    germy says:

    @NotMax: reporter probably thought he was being witty.

  83. 83
    Cacti says:

    @Kropadope:

    Bernie’s right.

    It’s stupid that Republicans don’t get more say in choosing the Democratic nominee.

    Because political revolution.

  84. 84
    WarMunchkin says:

    When Sanders overwhelmingly crushed it among politically engaged, left-leaning voters 19-24, he also took on a responsibility of leadership. He used that position to establish a baseline political philosophy for his young voters that will guide them for the rest of their lives: that the main problem with the United States is the Democratic Party.

    Which party do you think espouses that view? His voters, long-term, will become Republicans. I’m sick and tired of hearing about his damn nonexistent election fraud.

  85. 85
    CONGRATULATIONS! says:

    Is there actual evidence of this?

    @The Other Bob: There is not. There is evidence that he appealed to young people; there is no evidence he appealed to young voters, which is a very different thing entirely.

  86. 86

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: I have only seen her head shots, so no opinion on the bra.

  87. 87

    On the topic of hair, Hillary should go easy on the hair spray, hair that moves looks better than a helmet.

  88. 88
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    Take my word for it, sister. She could use better foundation garments.

  89. 89
    oklahomo says:

    @Poopyman: Since they can’t go with Uppity and Uppity Squared they had to go with Tirade one day and Aloof the next.

  90. 90

    @WarMunchkin: If I remember correctly, weren’t you an early supporter of Senator Bed Head?

  91. 91
    Linnaeus says:

    I don’t think he dragged Clinton to the left as much as he imagines since she was mostly there anyways; their Senate records weren’t that far apart, and President Obama’s success and the Republican fail parade has allowed the party to more boldly claim its traditional turf. But arguably Sanders made Clinton’s previous support for TPP untenable and compelled her to focus on the minimum wage and college tuition more than she would have otherwise.

    Sanders, IMHO, is more of an effect than a cause. His candidacy is to some extent an illustration of some ongoing shifts within the Democratic Party that are still playing themselves out. There’s several causes behind this shift: changing economic conditions, Republican insanity, Obama’s skill as a politician, etc. Sanders clearly isn’t the guy to carry this forward. But maybe someone else with a better finger on the pulse of the Democratic electorate will in future elections.

    Re TPP: I suspect that Clinton’s shift on that is tactical. If the TPP hasn’t been passed and signed by the time she comes president, I doubt that she will reject it.

  92. 92
    Kropadope says:

    @Cacti: Registered Republicans aren’t allowed to vote in open Democratic primaries, just Democrats and independents. We’ve managed to do this in MA without the Republicans taking over the party or having the party going down n electoral flames.

  93. 93
    amk says:

    @Kropadope: Well, the ‘registered voters’ could always join the party? Or start their own?

  94. 94

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: So could many women. VS has their semi annual sale going on right now.

  95. 95
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @SenyorDave:

    The one thing that don’t believe will happen is Sanders supporters going for Trump. One big thing that Clinton has going for is that Trump does not give anyone a reason to vote for him unless you are already a supporter. People I know who hate HRC are saying they’ll vote for her to stop Trump.

    Many Sanders primary voters will go for Trump, because they are not really Sanders supporters; they are anti-Hillary voters who voted in the D primary to get in an early shot against Hillary after Trump had sewn up the Republican nomination. They were always going to go for Trump.

  96. 96
  97. 97
    aimai says:

    I’ve been working on an elaborate visual to explain the problem of the Bernie or Buster taking their votes and walking out of the party. To me it isn’t, any longer, a problem for the Party or for the Election. Pace Kropadope’s tedious repetition of received Bernie wisdom that Bernie’s voters are, in some sense, a real, rock solid, hard base of support on the progressive side that belongs to Bernie and only to Bernie. In reality, that support was contingent on Bernie’s being the nominee. If he’s not going to be the nominee the greater portion of his support turns out to switch quite happilly to the nominee. So in rejecting Bernie’s calls for whatever is his flavor of grievance of the week the Party, and the Country, run no risk of losing the election because any substantial number of people stay home or vote third party.

  98. 98
    Kropadope says:

    @amk: Funny, I thought Democrats wanted to make it easier for people to participate and didn’t want to tell a plurality of the voters to go fuck themselves.

  99. 99
    Eric U. says:

    for years, the woman that served as the local superdeligate from here was the worst kind of squish. She could be counted on to say things that were critical of Democrats, so of course she was quoted a lot. Not sure if she’s still around. Sandersnistas could take over the local dem party apparatus without much effort, they are a low-energy bunch.

  100. 100
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Kropadope:

    The Democratic primary in California is open to anyone who is not registered for another party. Sanders still lost, badly, and the “uncounted” votes are coming in at the same proportion as the counted ones.

    I’m sorry, but more people voted for Clinton than voted for Sanders. That’s democracy.

  101. 101
    themann1086 says:

    The Dem primary process is actually Not Bad. In fact, I’d say it’s Mostly Good! Here are a few simple ways to improve it:

    1. Condensed schedule: While people calling for a National Primary Day mean well, having everyone vote on the same day would make it astronomically more difficult for smaller/darkhorse campaigns to succeed. Having a few states go first is a good way to give lesser-known candidates a chance to make a run at early favorites. Still, the current system of “voting starts at the beginning of February, ends in the middle of June” is just way too long. Voting should be done in 8 weeks: the first 4 Tuesdays are spent in 4 different states, followed by 4 regional Super Tuesdays. We can start in April and be done before Memorial Day.

    2. A simple rule change: “Unpledged delegates shall vote for the candidate which has secured a majority of the pledged delegates”. Boom, done. Now superdelegates can function as tie-breakers if there’s a multi-candidate scrum with no clear winner, but cannot overturn the will of the people.

    3. NO MORE CAUCUSES! Sorry, I hate caucuses.

    4. All primaries need to be either semi-open or semi-closed: both sides have good arguments, but since I support same-day voter registration it’s a bit of a moot point since even in a closed primary system, a voter could walk in, change their party affiliation, vote, and change it back. Barring that change, I don’t mind non-affiliated voters choosing to vote in a party’s primary, but I do mind voters of the two major parties voting in each other’s primaries; I go back and forth on third party voters, so either semi-closed (members of the party and unaffiliated voters) or semi-open (members of the party, unaffiliated voters, and members of parties which do not hold primaries) are fine, but they need to be consistent across states. And if we can’t get same-day registration, we need reasonable time periods to change party affiliation; New York is the worst offender, but several states have unreasonable deadlines.

  102. 102

    Asking to change the rules in the middle of the game when you are not winning, reminds me of toddler tantrum. That’s what happens when I am playing with my 3 year old niece. She gets mads, wipes her sticky paws on you and walks off in a huff. Its cute because she is 3. With Bernie, not so cute actually.

  103. 103
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Kropadope:

    Registered Republicans aren’t allowed to vote in open Democratic primaries, just Democrats and independents.

    No, those are “semi-closed” primaries. In open primaries, Republicans can vote.

  104. 104
    dmsilev says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: Apparently, this is not a good election season for fans of quality hair styling.

  105. 105
    Mike J says:

    Rafal Hill ‏@rafalhill 14 hours ago
    DNC RULES If Sanders wants a prime time speech he has to concede BEFORE the Convention, says @GovEdRendell @hardball

  106. 106
    Kay says:

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    I actually like that about her, that IMO she’s bad at fashion and dressing. I find it endearing. Maybe she doesn’t give a shit or is one of those people who genuinely have to ask if something looks alright. I usually like those women. I think “you really don’t know!” She’s so smart. She’d be less than human if she didn’t haveone area where she’s clueless.

  107. 107
    amk says:

    @Kropadope: They did make it easier, but not for the ratfuckers. They are not stupid.

  108. 108
    CONGRATULATIONS! says:

    Primaries only, closed only. Otherwise, next guy to pull a hijacking of the Dem party’s going to be a populist “moderate” Republican.

  109. 109
    indycat32 says:

    @Kropadope: Indiana has open primaries. When you go to vote you’re asked which ballot you want.

  110. 110
  111. 111

    @dmsilev: Apparently not. Although anything is better than the road kill on Agent Orange.

  112. 112
    NotMax says:

    Open Thread tag noted.

    Newly declassified documents offer more details about a detainee who died inside the secret prison network the CIA operated abroad after the Sept. 11 attacks and disclose that President George W. Bush was worried about the image of shackled detainees wearing adult diapers.

    Among the 50 documents released was a heavily redacted memo in which then-CIA Director Porter Goss recounts a meeting with Bush on June 7, 2006. The only sentence left to read said: “The president was concerned about the image of a detainee, chained to the ceiling, clothed in a diaper and forced to go to the bathroom on themselves.” Source

  113. 113
    Aardvark Cheeselog says:

    If I ran the asylum, I think I’d go for closed primaries with uniform rules, no supers.

    I understand why the supers exist, though I’m not old enough to remember “clean for Gene” very well. But IMHO if the Party ever had to actually use them, it would be a disaster.

  114. 114
    Gindy51 says:

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: That’s exactly how I’ve felt about her ever since the Burlington college fiasco seeped out.

  115. 115
    Mike J says:

    @CONGRATULATIONS!:

    Primaries only, closed only. Otherwise, next guy to pull a hijacking of the Dem party’s going to be a populist “moderate” Republican.

    It would sicken me to see an anti gun control, anti immigration white populist in the Democratic party.

  116. 116
    aimai says:

    The thing I wanted to point out is that Sanders voters, and Kropadope is a good example, think of politics this way:

    B (leader)
    bbbbbbbbbbbbbbb (voters)
    There is NOTHING in between. The will of the voters choses the leader. If B isn’t chosen then all the little bbbs walk away and no one can be chosen, or no one with any legitimacy.

    In reality politics in this country looks like this (I’d use X but I think the system might put me into probation)

    H
    ddddddddddd
    dddddddddddddd
    dddddddddddddddddd
    Yes there is direct voting from the base to the top during the primary, and the general election for president. But in reality Bernie’s support doesn’t affect the middle rungs (the senators, congresspeople, mayors). If his base supporters walk they don’t hive off forty percent of the voters, let alone forty percent of the party. They simply hive off five people here, twenty percent there, within specific districts. The only thing that made Bernie viable was that this was a national election where the thinness of his support locally could be overcome with passionate supporters in some other state, numerically speaking.

    In reality there is no movement of Bernie people, and within this political system it would have to be huge to make any difference in the way they think it can make a difference–i.e. by withholding their votes. The only way withholding votes, or as we call it sulking, works is if you have enough people to spoil the election. They don’t so that’s all she wrote. Continuing, as Bernie is doing, to complain and act as though you have a real, solid, voting bloc capable of throwing the election to Trump is just jaw droppingly awful behavior. I am not surprised that Bernie is doing it, but I am disgusted.

  117. 117
    patrick II says:

    If I could change one thing about the super delegates it would be that they would not voice their preference until the primaries are over. I don’t like having a presumptive nominee because the supers are wrapped up before the primaries begin and before people have a chance to vote.

  118. 118
    Corner Stone says:

    @Kay: IMO she always looks pretty well put together.

  119. 119
    Chris says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    That makes some sense, but on the other hand, if a party overrode a popularly elected nominee, wouldn’t it be blowing up its chances in the general anyway?

    Yep, that’s my thought. Both in re Trump and in re the superdelegate system itself.

  120. 120
  121. 121
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @indycat32: In WI, there is one ballot. You choose from either Democratic or Republican slate if candidates. If you cross-vote, you invalidate your choice.

  122. 122

    @Kay: I actually liked her style when she was the SoS it was relaxed and she didn’t give a shit. She had let her hair grow out, would wear her glasses. Plus she had a bright pink bag that she carried with her because that made her happy. She had an interview with Bazaar, that I remember reading where she discussed her style.
    This avatar is her trying to give a shit but still not caring enough to be a fashion plate like our current FLOTUS, who would look good in a potato sack because she is so tall.

  123. 123
    Yutsano says:

    @different-church-lady: Add a pinch of salt. Makes all the difference in the world.

  124. 124
    Corner Stone says:

    Dems just had family members of gun violence victims speaking live at a presser on Capitol Hill. Looks like maybe they had some form of coo..cooordi…dammit, what’s that word? Co Ordinance Nation?

  125. 125
    D58826 says:

    Entire Flight Comforts Orlando Victim’s Grandmother In The Most Beautiful Way

    Maybe hope for the human race.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....1?section=:

  126. 126
    magurakurin says:

    @Kropadope: dude, you are fucking tiresome. Sanders supporters are deserting him with each passing day. They are not delicate flowers to be protected. And anyone who wants to join the party is welcome…just check the box. The too cool for school “independents?”…head shrug at this point. If you cant pick a team by now?

  127. 127
    aimai says:

    @patrick II: In reality if many supers had joined Bernie from day one he would be singign the praises of the supers. And they really could have. There are lots of people who are party regulars who might have loved Bernie’s approach. But they actually knew Bernie really well, and Hillary too, and that is why the ones who did express a preference did so early. Bernie’s problem is that the Supers could have given him extra legitimacy but in their informed opinion he wasn’t a good candidate for President. I think he’s proven he was a good candidate for being a candidate for President. But there’s a world of difference between being the Sage of Brattleboro and being ready to run the country. And party regulars realized that. I actually think that’s good information to have, speaking qua voter.

  128. 128
    CaseyL says:

    One day after not participating in the gun control filibuster, Sanders is still demanding concessions from the Democrats before he’ll end his candidacy and endorse Clinton?

    He can go to hell.

  129. 129

    @Kropadope: In Iowa, you can change your registration at the door. During the caucuses, I saw that as a good thing. But during the primary early this month, I was voter #4 in my precinct and two of the voters ahead of me changed from R to D on the spot. They could do that risk free because Grassley and Blum are R incumbents, so their primary made no difference.

  130. 130
    eclare says:

    @indycat32: Same here in Tennessee, which HRC won handily. But, hey, southern state…we don’t count or something.

  131. 131
    dmsilev says:

    @aimai: It’s telling that of all of Sanders’ colleagues in the Senate, precisely one (1) supported him. And that one (Jeff Merkley) has said that he would respect the decision of the primary electorate and wouldn’t support any sort of quixotic “flip the super delegates” campaign.

  132. 132
    Corner Stone says:

    FUCKING HUGH HEWITT ON MSNBC.

  133. 133
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @SenyorDave: …Also, I do think polling has indicated that there are such people as Sanders > Trump > Clinton voters, though they may not exist on Election Day to the extent that they do in polls, because they probably have a low propensity to vote. Aside from the rare but loud nihilist/anarchist types, they’re mostly low-information voters who are primarily driven by novelty and/or sexism.

  134. 134
    dr. bloor says:

    @Kropadope:

    Funny, I thought Democrats wanted to make it easier for people to participate and didn’t want to tell a plurality of the voters to go fuck themselves.

    Because nothing says “Go fuck yourself” like “Check the box next to “Democratic’ on the registration form.” So precious.

  135. 135

    @Corner Stone: Does he still run Clown Hall?

  136. 136
    Kay says:

    @Corner Stone:

    That’s nice :) No further comment from me!

    My mother in law looks exactly like her except she’s 20 years older and she knows how to dress, so I feel like I know exactly how she could look better :)

    It doesn’t matter. She looks fine.

  137. 137
    ArchTeryx says:

    @SenyorDave: That would depend on if they need Sanders to caucus with them for their majority, doesn’t it?

  138. 138

    @Kay: Women tend to scrutinize/praise fashion much more than men. Most men don’t notice the details, they focus on the overall impression.

  139. 139
    Corner Stone says:

    Tamron Hall is completely over Donald Trump.

    And I don’t think she cares very much for Hugh Hewitt, either.

  140. 140
    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism says:

    Yes, yes, it’s the Musical That Shall Not Be Named. Deal.

    Lin-Manuel Miranda
    1)So far @USATODAY is the only one not burying the lede:
    We’re filming the original cast before I go.
    WE GOT YOU.

    2) What are we doing with that footage?
    No idea.
    Throwing it in a vault at Gringotts for a bit probly. But we’re getting it.

    From deep in said USAToday article:

    But before he packs up his Hamilton dressing room, the production will film two performances with the original cast this month before they start exiting, as well as shooting offstage cameos.

    For the sake of a friend, I hope that includes GroffSauce. If so, she will be ded from joy whenever that drops.

  141. 141
    NotMax says:

    re: above

    Barely scratches the surface, so take it as a primer and certainly not a definitive treatise on the constitutional dilemmas inherent in designing open and closed primaries.

    From the same page, too: “The open primary could also be viewed as bad for voter participation. Statistics show that voter participation in the United States was higher when people could only vote in the primary for their own party.”

  142. 142
    MomSense says:

    @different-church-lady:

    Bacon and cheese? Red pepper flakes?

  143. 143
    Mike J says:

    @magurakurin:

    The too cool for school “independents?”…head shrug at this point. If you cant pick a team by now?

    The cool kids hate to hear it, but there are actual policy differences between Democrats and Republicans. I don’t want anybody who is too stupid to see them to pick the leader of my party.

  144. 144
    D58826 says:

    According to Hewitt on MSNBC Hillary is at fault for Syria and Libya. Obviously we did intervene in Libya but does any one think things would be better in Libya if Qudaffa was still in power.?

  145. 145

    @different-church-lady: Butter. Everything is better with butter. Ask Julia Childs.

  146. 146
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:

    @dr. bloor:

    Special snowflakes who all melt upon first contact with reality. Yeah, those are the voters we’re supposed to give a shit about and rely on. The fact that those were Bernie’s “base” makes him guilty of political malpractice.

  147. 147
    Corner Stone says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: From what I can tell I think he’s running the bookings dept at MSNBC. Smarmy prick, every third sentence is bashing Hillary. The other two are re-interpreting the bullshit that comes out of Trump’s mouth and/or something about Reagan.

  148. 148
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:

    @D58826:

    Hillary was president? Did Obama know that?

  149. 149
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @schrodinger’s cat:
    @Kay:

    How should Hillary dress? However she goddamn wants.

  150. 150
    Corner Stone says:

    @Kay: I wish she would come out in her red Chairman Mao outfit more often.

  151. 151
    Just One More Canuck says:

    @Kropadope: Who is telling them to go fuck themselves? What is so tough about having to register for a party in order to vote in the primary/caucus?

  152. 152
    Kay says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Hah! Absolutely true that you never hear that level of scrutiny around men. Except I’m thinking it– so that doesn’t apply to me :)

    I had to tell my daughter the wedding dress she wanted was unflattering, because it was true. That I chose Thanksgiving weekend to do this was not smart, but I saved her and she knows it. Now. That we got thru it :)

  153. 153
    patrick II says:

    @aimai:
    I understand why the supers went for Hillary early, but they will almost always go for what they consider the lowest risk candidate, not necessarily the best if one wants to change anything. And if there was no such thing as a super candidate and democratic elected officials wanted to endorse early I would be ok with that. But with super delegates those endorsements count as votes and they will always be for the establishment candidate, and when an establishment candidate has such a significant lead from the beginning of the process it is difficult for any non-establishment favorite to overcome the presumption of being the choice if supers can “vote” before the first primary voter does.

  154. 154
    agrippa says:

    I agree with all three.
    The DNC is not alone in failing to win congressional elections. The state and district organizations hare the blame.
    SDs, I think that they need to stay, but can be reduced. And, that will keep until later.

    The states write the laws on primaries. The caucus should go away. But, that is a state function as well.

  155. 155
    D58826 says:

    @Corner Stone: Last night on LAst Word, thew opening segment was on the filibuster and the attempt to ban people on the no fly list from getting a gun. The Goper opened the discussion by saying it’s the democrats that are at fault because they will not vote for the GOP bill. O’Donnell shut that one down by saying it was the poison pills in the bill that fuel the democratic opposition. She then moved on to why the democrats don’t include Hillary in their criticism since she is under ‘investigation’ by the FBI. Never mind she is not trying to get a gun. When that was shutdown she switched to abortion. Where does MSNBC get these loons.

    And Paul Ryan is now sorta defending ‘old little hands’ because he is a different kind of candidate.

  156. 156

    @SiubhanDuinne: Agreed in principle but clothes and how you present yourself to the world, do tell a lot about a person. Its fair game when you are a public figure and I have made remarks about Trump and Bernster too in this very thread.

  157. 157
    glory b says:

    @different-church-lady: Add bacon crumbles

    Actually, according to the now defunct Martha Stewart Sirius radio station, that is a thing, I think they did it with a sort of kettle corn glaze. Sounded yummy but I never tried it.

  158. 158
    eclare says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Love it! That put a big grin on my face! Has anyone noticed that The Guardian is doing a better job of covering the US election than US papers?

  159. 159
    Corner Stone says:

    @D58826:

    does any one think things would be better in Libya if Qudaffa was still in power.?

    Maybe Qaddaffi?

  160. 160
    Kay says:

    @Corner Stone:

    I liked the green period. It’s not hard. She looks good in blue and green. I understand the thinking behind the longer jackets- seems like it would be good- but I’m not convinced it IS, you know? :)

  161. 161
    Betty Cracker says:

    @CONGRATULATIONS!: I don’t think that’s right if we’re talking about Democratic primary voters. Sanders won voters under 30 by huge margins according to all the data I’ve seen, including the LA Times piece. Do you have evidence to the contrary? If so, I’d be interested in seeing it.

  162. 162
    Miss Bianca says:

    @germy: OK, I have to push back on the anti-Yoko “oh, she influenced John Lennon too much” narrative here, because it smacks a bit too much of regular old sexism to me. If that means I have to push back on Jane Sanders’s influence on her husband, well…so be it.

  163. 163
    Barbara says:

    @PST: No personnel change should be done just to placate Sanders. The idea that Sanders would get to harness the Democratic Party’s infrastructure for the purpose of settling what are basically personal scores with people he thinks slighted him is simply untenable. The Party exists for political not personal ends and Obama should be brutally honest that the only demands they will not throw in the trash are those that advance substantive political and procedural goals.

  164. 164

    @Kay: I am with you on the long jackets, not so great. Extra fabric never makes anyone looks skinny, it just looks like you are trying to hide something.
    BTW my mom too, will just tell it like it is, my tender fee-fees be damned. I kinda like that, though it bruises my ego at times.

  165. 165
  166. 166
  167. 167
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Kay: I’m with you on the fashion angle. I know nothing about Jane Sanders otherwise, but in general, I admire women who say “screw it” on the fashion plate bullshit. I even took Hillary Clinton’s much-criticized reliance on scrunchies during her SoS tenure as a subtle “fuck da man” and approved of that sentiment!

  168. 168
    glory b says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: A republican female from the McCain campaign on msnbc, (whose name I’ve forgotten) said that the repubs were REALLY envious that they didn’t have superdelegates this year.

  169. 169
    Corner Stone says:

    @Barbara:

    harness the Democratic Party’s infrastructure for the purpose of settling what are basically personal scores with people he thinks slighted him is simply untenable.

    But isn’t that exactly what he is doing with the platform/policy committee re-assignmnet bullshit? Putting Barney Frank back into his place for being loudly anti-Bernie?

  170. 170
    agrippa says:

    I am not at all sure that it really matters what Sanders does.
    I do not think that he will do much good in the campaign.

  171. 171
    Barbara says:

    @Gravenstone: Try to imagine what it’s like to be Obama, again and again, sitting with grieving relatives, devastated by the loss of, usually, promising young people in their lives. I can’t imagine how he does it. I looked at the pictures of Orlando victims in the NYT and started crying and I am not sitting in a room with their siblings and parents. Jesus. I remember once reading a memoir by an early AIDS activist who admitted that after a while he began being relieved by traditional funerals, with closed coffin and no friends and family speakers, because of the sheer number of funerals he attended and how devastated he would feel after experiencing the grief and loss vicariously through personal testaments to the victim. Fuck CNN.

  172. 172
    NotMax says:

    @Kay

    Miranda, premiere episode (wedding dress scene begins about 26:09).

    Funny, funny series.

  173. 173
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Kay:

    I strongly suspect the longer jackets — which are almost always looser — are designed to accommodate a bulletproof vest of some kind. (I also mentioned this in a thread a few days ago about Trump’s looking overweight. I imagine he wears a bpv at some of his rallies.)

  174. 174
    Betty Cracker says:

    @patrick II: Sounds reasonable to me. On the other hand, supers tend to be prominent Dems whose endorsements are much sought after, so they’d have to sacrifice that influence to participate as a super.

  175. 175
    Chyron HR says:

    @Mike J:

    Sanders called, he added “4. Abolish the AFL-CIO” to his list of demands.

  176. 176
    MomSense says:

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    I think you can get away with them if you are really tall.

  177. 177
    Mike J says:

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    CNN is reporting that the political director of the SEIU will take over DNC operations, leaving DWS as a figurehead.

    Clinton is appointing somebody to head DNC election ops, just like they do every election year.

  178. 178
    James E Powell says:

    @Aardvark Cheeselog:

    I’d also go for closed primaries. I would like to require any voter wanting to vote in a party’s primary to make some positive statement of membership. Actually, I’d like to charge $10 but I get it I get it the constitution and stuff. But anyway, it could be something easy like California where you just fill in a circle with the #2 pencil. What are the independents’ objections to that?

    The superdelegates were invented to prevent another McGovern. The entire mindset of the DNC since 1972 has been to prevent another McGovern (see, e.g., how they all acted the only other time the leading candidate opposed an ongoing war). The superdelegates were also considered pretty handy when Jesse Jackson won a few primaries. Not sure if you’re old enough for that, but several Democratic bigshots lost their minds.

  179. 179
    Betty Cracker says:

    @aimai: “Sage of Brattleboro,” haha! I miss Brattleboro. Haven’t seen it in ages, but it’s such a lovely place.

  180. 180
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Kay:

    I actually like that about her, that IMO she’s bad at fashion and dressing. I find it endearing. Maybe she doesn’t give a shit or is one of those people who genuinely have to ask if something looks alright. I usually like those women.

    Relatedly, I think Bernie Sanders is one of those people who has decided that looking droopy, dumpy, and disheveled shows him to be “authentic,” which is part of what allows him to get away with being thoughtless, simplistic, Johnny One-Note on every. blessed. thing. Look, my hair is fucked up, I scowl, and I have a heavy regional accent! I’m not one of those Typical Establishment characters! That’s how you can trust me! It’s an old trick crappy professors have been pulling for 50 years.

  181. 181
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Corner Stone: I don’t understand why that ghostly apparition is haunting MSNBC, but it’s definitely a thing now. Is he polishing Rubio’s knob? What an asshole.

  182. 182
    NotMax says:

    @MomSense

    Worked for Bea Arthur.

  183. 183
    aimai says:

    @patrick II: The idea that the most revolutionary, outsider, candidate is always the better choice is weird, to me. And Jeb Bush was very much an insider candidate and didn’t get support. Hillary didn’t get support because she was the insider/establishment candidate. Or rather, that’s a very binary way of thinking about it. Its more accurate to say that she was a popular candidate among political people–she was begged to run again by the other female senators including Warren–who knew her and knew her work. Many people wanted her to run specifically to break the glass ceiling even though everyone knew that she could well lose again if another charismatic, younger, Obama like figure rose up.

  184. 184
    Barbara says:

    @Corner Stone: Right, and it shows how little else the Democratic Party should be prepared to give Sanders, particularly when he won’t even endorse the Democratic nominee. What an incredible sense of grievance and entitlement rolled into one ball he is. He needs to find the better angels of his nature fast, because they have been hiding for some time.

  185. 185
    Feebog says:

    At this point Sanders has just become a tiresome old scold. The Democrats in the Senate did something remarkable yesterday, they forced McConnell to agree on 2 meaningful gun control amendments. Almost every Democratic Senator participated in the filibuster, including Independent Angus King? Where was Bernie?

  186. 186

    @MomSense: If you are tall, just about anything looks good on you. If you are of average height you need to pair a looser longer top with a skinnier bottom.

  187. 187
    aimai says:

    @Mike J: I’m sure it only “counts” for Bernie if DWS is ritually disembowled onstage, by Jane, before Bernie strides over her corpse.

  188. 188
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:

    @Feebog:

    What Senator Murphy did yesterday was way more revolutionary than anything Bernie fucking Sanders has done in his whole life. Now can we all agree that he’s as useless as tits on a bull, and that his colleagues’ silence and lack of support for his candidacy is because he’s not worthy of their support, since he thinks it’s all about him? What.A.Fraud.

  189. 189
    Mike in DC says:

    If Sanders refuses to concede before the convention he’s not getting a speaking slot in prime time. If he refuses to endorse, it’s not Clinton or DWS who will look bad and be diminished politically, it’s him. This stuff about being worried about Clinton pivoting is spin. First of all, if Bernie were the nominee and his advisors told him he needed to move to the center to secure swing states, he would shift. Because principles mean nothing without the power to put them into effect. Second, I don’t see a big pivot from Clinton coming, because it’s not clear she even needs to move much to win.

  190. 190

    @Mike J: So standard practice? Good. I’m petty enough to resent Sander getting any concessions beyond what he already got with the platform committee.

  191. 191
    Mike J says:

    @aimai:

    In reality if many supers had joined Bernie from day one he would be singing the praises of the supers. And they really could have.

    And, as Sandernistas are fond of pointing out, supers don’t vote until July. Even if we had never had superdelegates, those 400 elected officials and state party people would have still offered their endorsements, and it would have meant precisely as much as it did this year. Barring a train wreck, supers vote with the majority. They’re free to talk to the voters about who they think is best, even if it hurts some feelings.

  192. 192
    Origuy says:

    What I don’t like are states that have two primaries, one for President and a later one for everything else. It ensures low turnout for state and local elections. This game of “we gotta have an early primary” has to end.

  193. 193
    Betty Cracker says:

    @D58826:

    Obviously we did intervene in Libya but does any one think things would be better in Libya if Qudaffa was still in power.?

    Yeah, I do. It was an authoritarian hellhole when he was in power, of course, but it’s hard to argue things are better now. It’s a completely unstable shit show.

  194. 194
    James E Powell says:

    @D58826:

    Where does MSNBC get these loons.

    They have to have some training site, like where Bridget Fonda trained in Point of No Return. They act and talk exactly alike, no matter which show, no matter what the subject is.

  195. 195
    FlipYrWhig says:

    From the OP:

    As for policy issues, is the Sanders campaign even talking about them anymore?

    Seemingly no, and seemingly without any passion for them since the Daily News interview fiasco in New York. Which is the thing that aggravates me the most about what the Sanders campaign turned into. The original point of his run was to make little-heard arguments about inequality and democratic socialism — which was a pretty cool rationale for running. I don’t like Bernie Sanders the human being, but Bernie Sanders the figurehead for a neglected set of values and preferences had many merits. WHERE THE FUCKING FUCK DID THAT GO? Why did the WHOLE CAMPAIGN turn into a protest against superdelegates and the primary calendar? Whose lives are affected in any way by those things, other than people running for president? Gigantic waste of everyone’s attention.

  196. 196
  197. 197
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Mike in DC:

    First of all, if Bernie were the nominee and his advisors told him he needed to move to the center to secure swing states, he would shift.

    I assume the reason he didn’t join the gun control filibuster is because he’s still squishy on gun issues because he thinks being braver about them would hurt him in Vermont.

  198. 198

    @FlipYrWhig: And giant waste of an opportunity.

  199. 199
    J R in WV says:

    @Gravenstone:

    Here:

    CNN Customer service: 1 (404) 827-1500

    Edition.CNN.com/feedback

    http://www.cnn.com/feedback/hdlns/

  200. 200
    FlipYrWhig says:

    Bernie Sanders is going out like Admiral Stockdale ’92.

  201. 201

    @FlipYrWhig: He is brave when it doesn’t cost him anything politically.

  202. 202
    J R in WV says:

    My CNN contact info comment went straight into moderation~!!!

    Thanx

  203. 203
    MomSense says:

    @NotMax:

    I loved Bea Arthur. She seemed to me to be NFTG before that was even a thing.

  204. 204
    gbear says:

    Did Bernie bother to participate in the filibuster yesterday with his fellow democratic and independent senators? If he didn’t, he should go away immediately.

  205. 205

    @MomSense: In college I knew a girl (friend of a friend) who was a catwalk model. She was 5ft 9, she once showed up at an end of summer party in a sundress made of burlap (I kid you not) and she still looked good. I am sure 95% of female populace would look ridiculous in that outfit, but she made it work.

  206. 206
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Iowa Old Lady: Yup, massive unforced error. He fell ass-backwards into a bully pulpit, and decided he’d rather use it to talk about this shit. A rueful development.

  207. 207
    aimai says:

    Why does the site keep eating my response to Feebog?

    Where was bernie? Taking Democrats, Democratic policies, and demoratic activism for granted as he has done his entire political life. The whole crappy “amendment king” story was basically to say that he was a free rider on Democratic insitiatives and Democratic governance.

  208. 208
    raven says:

    The Labour MP Jo Cox is in a critical condition after being shot and stabbed multiple times after a constituency meeting.

    Armed officers responded to the attack near a library in Birstall, West Yorkshire, on Thursday afternoon. A 52-year-old man was arrested in the area, police confirmed. The suspect was named locally as Tommy Mair.

    Police added that Cox, the MP for Batley and Spen, had suffered “serious injuries and is in a critical condition”. She has been taken by helicopter to Leeds General Infirmary.

    The suspect was named locally as Thomas Mair.

    Police also confirmed a man in his late 40s to early 50s nearby suffered slight injuries in the incident. They are also investigating reports that the suspect shouted “Britain first”, a possible reference to the far-right political party of that name, as he launched the attack.

  209. 209
    Corner Stone says:

    Why does John Brennan still have a job?

  210. 210
    Corner Stone says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    Bernie Sanders is going out like Admiral Stockdale ’92.

    Gridlock!
    The thing that irks me is watching people I used to somewhat enjoy seeing speak turn into more and more deranged loons. Nina Turner, the OH St Senator has joe biden literally become progressively unhinged during this primary. Sad!

  211. 211
    Grumpy Code Monkey says:

    If you’re in a closed primary state and want to have a say in who gets the Democratic nomination, join the fucking party!

    Like I said on another forum, why should the Democratic Party let you play in their game if you’re not even willing to try on the uniform? Bernie was willing to join, what makes his supporters so goddamned special?

    I will give Bernie this – a lot of people who normally wouldn’t pay attention to the process before November are getting involved, which is an unqualified Good Thing. I just hope they take away the right lesson (i.e., if you want things to change, you have to change them).

    I will say that there is a downside to getting more involved than passively voting every couple of years; I’m going to the Texas State Democratic Convention tomorrow, and I have been inundated with phone calls, email, and snail mail from people running for national delegate or the state Democratic committee, etc.

  212. 212
    Miss Bianca says:

    @raven: Good God.

  213. 213
    gwangung says:

    @FlipYrWhig: Pretty much this. The issues are getting conflated with the incompetence of the Sanders candidacy, and that should be concerning to anyone who cares about the issues.

  214. 214
    Kay says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    Exactly. Her clumsiness with some of the aspects of campaigning seems not IN authentic to me, but authentic.

    It’s a weird “skill” to reveal yourself to giant crowds of strangers! The vast majority of people aren’t “naturals” at that, nor should they be! The reverse-Clinton is worse. Ted Stickland is folksy and warm in speeches but he’s wary and uncomfortable one on one. Almost suspicious. You end up feeling you have to put him at ease and that feels backward. You come away thinking “is he like an actor playing this part, or what?”

  215. 215
    CaseyL says:

    Jo Cox has died of her injuries. Dammit, dammit, dammit.

  216. 216
    Joel says:

    I know the California “unprocessed ballots” conspiracy is dying a deserved death, but it’s worth noting that 7.3 million votes have been counted and Clinton still leads 55-44; the total delta is less than a percent from election day, and it’s unlikely that the remaining two million will move the needle much at all.

  217. 217
  218. 218
    NotMax says:

    Grrr.

    Power blinked out for 1½ seconds.

    Ten minutes to reset the fershluginner clocks and get them to match up.

    /first world problems

  219. 219
    Brachiator says:

    Sanders’ biggest asset in the primary was his ability to appeal to young voters. That’s important. But he’s busily squandering the value of his base by insinuating that the process was unfair and that he (and they) were robbed, thus removing their motivation to vote for the Democrat in the general election.

    Yeah, this is one of Bernie’s few values. But the thing is, I don’t think that he can deliver or turn these voters over to Clinton. He can stump for her, but she has to find a way to appeal to them on her own terms.

    Otherwise, Sanders is rapidly wearing out his welcome. And since he was never a member of the Democratic Party, I don’t think he has a strong bargaining position at all with respect to making changes within the party.

  220. 220
    J R in WV says:

    The arse also was responsible for this:

    U.S. sailors’ release: Diplomatic coup or cowing to Iran?

    By Stephen Collinson, CNN

    Obviously a Trump Republican. Should be fired for partisanship!

  221. 221
    D58826 says:

    @Betty Cracker: I would agree if he had been able to keep a lid on the situation using his standard ham handed tactics. There already was a ‘popular’ uprising when the west intervened. That it hasn’t worked out very well should teach us a lesson. We went in big in Iraq and that didn’t work out so well. We went in light in Libya and that is a mess. Initially we did nothing in Syria and that didn’t work out very well. Obama is being criticized by the GOP for intervening in Libya and not intervening in Syria. I think the lesson is that there is very little the US can do in these countries. They all have long and complicated histories, and convoluted internal relationships. They make the Hatfield’s and the McCoy’s look easy. At least there you only had 2 sides.

  222. 222

    @CaseyL: Good lord. What a horrifying thing.

  223. 223
    different-church-lady says:

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne:

    …from the perspective of an old white male from a white white state who refuses to acknowledge the role racism plays.

    While I have no interest in aiding your rant (sincerely!) — which I feel is not entirely inaccurate, but goes to far — I feel that the reality is both not as bad, and yet also worse than what you’ve stated here. Sanders has intellectualized race to such an extent that he has wound up putting the cart in front of the horse. He acknowledges racism, but makes it a symptom of economic injustice. He’s got it entirely backwards: economic injustice is a tool used to further institutional racism. He seems utterly incapable of compartmentalizing the two concepts enough to see how they interact with the same kind of clarity that amounts to simple common sense among people who live in diverse communities day-to-day.

    Shorter: he’s not interested in being racist, but he can’t seem to stop out-thinking himself. Perhaps it’s a distinction without a practical difference, but at least his intent is not destructive in and of itself. No matter what, in the end it amounts to a kind of cluelessness about the real world, one that was a serious obstacle to my support going his way.

  224. 224
    Mike J says:

    What’s sickening is US right wingers are going to dance on Jo Cox’s grave and say it proves gun control doesn’t work.

  225. 225
    Cacti says:

    @Kropadope:

    Registered Republicans aren’t allowed to vote in open Democratic primaries, just Democrats and independents. We’ve managed to do this in MA without the Republicans taking over the party or having the party going down n electoral flames.

    But that’s not what your boy has been saying.

    Quoth the Bern:

    “But what is really dumb is that you have closed primaries, like in New York State, where 3 million people who were Democrats or Republicans could not participate.”

    Bernie thinks it’s dumb that Republicans don’t get more of a voice in the Democratic primary process.

    Someone take the car keys from grandpa, please.

  226. 226
    different-church-lady says:

    @WJS:

    Actual civic responsibility was not a factor for the Sanders crowd.

    A REVOLUTIONARY DOES NOT BEHAVE!

  227. 227
    D58826 says:

    MSNBC is reporting that Powell aide Richard Armitage is going to endorse Hillary

  228. 228
    SenyorDave says:

    @Betty Cracker:
    Obviously we did intervene in Libya but does any one think things would be better in Libya if Qudaffa was still in power.?

    Yeah, I do. It was an authoritarian hellhole when he was in power, of course, but it’s hard to argue things are better now. It’s a completely unstable shit show.

    In other words, it sounds like it would be like Syria. Assad’s still there, only now he’s into all out genocide.

  229. 229
    EBT says:

    @Mike J: the article I read said it was a garage gun via the witness. Some guy brewing up a jug of explosives doesn’t suddenly invalidate laws agaisnt selling or owning it anymore than someone building a gun from pipe and off the shelf parts invalidate laws agaisnt owning or buying (or manufacturer)

  230. 230
    patrick II says:

    @aimai:

    I am not saying the outsider is always the better choice. I am saying he/she should be given an even chance. Especially since “outsider” usually means outside the status quo, it’s a difficult slog from the beginning. Let’s not rig the game.

  231. 231
    Betty Cracker says:

    @CaseyL: OMG, how horrible. A far right loon, I assume.

  232. 232
    Fair Economist says:

    @Mike in DC:

    Second, I don’t see a big pivot from Clinton coming, because it’s not clear she even needs to move much to win.

    This “pivot for the general” concern is fighting the last war. I can’t remember the last time somebody “pivoted to the center” after the primary. Not Obama, not Romney, not McCain, not Kerry, not W, not Gore, not Dole, not Clinton. H W Bush in 1988 maybe? I think you have to go back to Reagan ’80 for a real example, and I don’t think anybody believed him anyway.

  233. 233
    Elizabelle says:

    Jo Cox was apparently an aid worker before. What a tragedy.

  234. 234
    CaseyL says:

    @Mike J: Happily, I’m not in an area where I’m likely to hear that (except online). I’m heartsick over this, because it’s in the UK, where these things hardly ever happen.

    @Betty Cracker: Hard to know for sure. He’s supposed to have shouted “Britain First!” which is the Brexit rallying cry, but SFAIK there’s been no confirmation of that.

  235. 235
    different-church-lady says:

    @germy:

    Somewhat like Yoko goading John into bed-ins and bagism?

    I don’t think there was much goading going on. Ono might have encouraged Lennon’s indulgent tendencies, but he was perfectly willing — and, in fact, waiting — to go there.

  236. 236
    Mike J says:

    @EBT: You think logic or truth is going to stand in their way?

  237. 237
    low-tech cyclist says:

    @Mike J:

    Clinton is appointing somebody to head DNC election ops, just like they do every election year.

    That doesn’t mean it isn’t important. One of the main beefs many of us have had with DWS is her plain and simple ineffectuality in electing Democrats, even going so far as refusing to work to defeat some vulnerable GOP Congresscritters from FL who she regarded as friends.

    We’ve got the potential for a landslide win this year, and I want to see that landslide carry over to all levels, from Senate to state legislatures. DWS isn’t the person to be in charge of this effort. I’m relieved that the change is being made in time to make a difference.

  238. 238
    different-church-lady says:

    @D58826:

    MSNBC is reporting that Powell aide Richard Armitage is going to endorse Hillary

    MORE PROOF THAT TODAY’S DEMOCRATS ARE YESTERDAY’S REPUBLICANS!!1!

  239. 239
    Betty Cracker says:

    @D58826: I agree with this 100%: “I think the lesson is that there is very little the US can do in these countries.”

    @SenyorDave: I don’t think we can say for sure what would have happened had we not intervened. There really aren’t any good choices. I think the Obama administration was trying to do the right thing, but it’s undeniably a shit show now.

  240. 240
    Fair Economist says:

    @SenyorDave:

    Obviously we did intervene in Libya but does any one think things would be better in Libya if Qudaffa was still in power.?

    Yeah, I do. It was an authoritarian hellhole when he was in power, of course, but it’s hard to argue things are better now. It’s a completely unstable shit show.

    In other words, it sounds like it would be like Syria. Assad’s still there, only now he’s into all out genocide.

    The death rate in Syria, where we didn’t intervene, is 100 times that of Libya, where we did.

    Also, doesn’t anybody follow the news? The sides in Libya’s civil war called a truce MONTHS ago and are currently cooperating to finish off Daesh by taking the last city it controls.

  241. 241
    JPL says:

    @Betty Cracker: The Guardian is reporting that the man yelled Britain first which is the far right party.

    I see Casey mentioned that.

    link to CNN International http://www.livenewschat.eu/international/?ref=fv

  242. 242
    JPL says:

    @different-church-lady: Powell supported the President both times. The Republicans have become the untouchables.

  243. 243
    different-church-lady says:

    @jeffreyw: For breakfast?!?

  244. 244
    Chyron HR says:

    @Cacti:

    That doesn’t count because Bernie was an “Unverifiable Rando” for the duration of that interview, so there.

  245. 245
    J R in WV says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    Yoko cannot sing at all. Worse than the poor woman who thought she was am opera singer, Florence Foster Jenkins. That isn’t sexism, that’s having the ability to hear music and know if the notes are on key. I love Yoko’s heart and the work she does for her causes, but…

  246. 246
    EBT says:

    @Mike J: not at all but you can at least show everyone who isn’t a rabid child murdering ammosexual

  247. 247
    bemused says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Is this shithead a regular commenter on msnbc now?

  248. 248
    different-church-lady says:

    @WarMunchkin:

    His voters, long-term, will become Republicans libertarians.

  249. 249
    Corner Stone says:

    @bemused: Hewitt has been on MSNBC, from what I can tell by watching and seeing other people’s comments here, on average about 3 segments a day. Every day for the past two weeks it seems like. I think they gave him a trial run a few weeks ago and it angered so many people that MSNBC thought it was a ratings bonanza. As I have said, I wish I had a metric fuckton of money because I would buy MSNBC just to fire every single person who was involved in the decision to have HH on their air.
    I don’t agree very much with former RNC chair Michael Steele but at least he has one foot in reality. There isn’t a godsdamned thing that comes out of HH’s mouth that can be trusted to even exist in the same ballpark as “accurately described”.

  250. 250
    Yutsano says:

    @CaseyL: I would like to ask some British friends, but unfortunately the cell phone tower near my work is out AND I can’t connect to Twitter on my work computer.

  251. 251
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism:

    That’s usually what they do for future “Great Performances” broadcasts once the initial furor dies down. I saw the Angela Lansbury “Sweeney Todd” on PBS that way.

    G knows someone who went to see a Broadway performance of “Into the Woods” a couple of years after it opened. Right before the show started, they announced that the show was going to be filmed that night, so instead of the listed performers, the original cast would be performing that night. Obviously, the whole audience went nuts and it was a great show.

  252. 252
    Elizabelle says:

    Superheated political climates; here over the unending presidential campaign, in the UK over the Brexit.

    Surprising it was a British politician who was the first dead. What a shock. And Ms. Cox sounds like a marvelous person, with a bright future. Tragedy. Two young kids left behind. She was an avid bicyclist and lived part-time on a boat on the Thames. Happy to hear that people like Ms. Cox go into politics in Britain, or anywhere.

  253. 253
    MomSense says:

    @Fair Economist:

    Nope. I think the mistake we made (all the intervening parties) was insufficient follow through. They took some promising steps early on and I think we didn’t appreciate that they needed more support at that stage.

  254. 254
    Kay says:

    Also, we got a list of Ohio AFL-CIO field staff for the general, which I have never seen before- not specific contacts for each area of the state along with a Clinton endorsement sent to non-labor people.

    This is a good unusual thing, just so we’re clear :)

  255. 255
    maryQ says:

    http://fivethirtyeight.com/fea.....still-win/

    Clinton is very smart, and unlike in 2008, she seems to have a very smart team. Surely someone has done the work that went into the above liked article.

    Clinton’s progressive positions are on very solid ground compared with Sanders “more progressive” (and less realistic) positions. She also has policy specifics to feed the wonks.

    She can win if disaffected republicans just stay home. But, she can build a very strong coalition and claim a mandate if she actually convinces them NOT to stay home, but to vote for her.

    Bernie has no ground to stand on at this point. So sad that he just does not know this.

  256. 256
    wenchacha says:

    @Schlemazel Khan: Trump’s face or his junk? One would be life-sized. Sad!

  257. 257
    different-church-lady says:

    @Kropadope:

    I thought Democrats wanted to make it easier for people to participate

    You check a box on a form by a certain date. How much fuckin’ easier do you want it to be?

  258. 258
    TriassicSands says:

    If ever there were a point I’d be willing to concede to Sanders, it would be to send Wasserman Schultz packing. She’s not a good enough leader to be worth fighting over…at all.

  259. 259
    JPL says:

    If the man who murdered the Labour Party MP, yelled Britain First, I wonder if Trump will stop using America First.

  260. 260
    bemused says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Jesus. He’s a horror. Why don’t they hire David Duke and Alex Jones while they are at it.

  261. 261
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism:

    Has your friend seen the #Ham4Ham with Groffsauce and Renee-Elise Goldsberry singing “Endless Love” on the rooftop of the Richard Rodgers? Day-um. I know he’s gay, but they have some SERIOUS chemistry. Some producer needs to cast them opposite each other as romantic leads.

  262. 262
    Yutsano says:

    @TriassicSands: Eh. She’s done January 2017 and has said she’s not running for the position again. I don’t see the need to sacrifice someone who’s on their way out anyway.

  263. 263
    J R in WV says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    I disagree, Betty, Libya would be like Syria right now, with people starving in besieged towns. It’s not pretty in Libya, but it isn’t full-bore civil war with genocidal maniacs running large parts of the country, either.

    Plus, not Clinton’s decision, she wasn’t President, no matter what she advised it was President Obama’s decision. I also don’t think it has any great effect on the general election…

  264. 264
    nutella says:

    I shouldn’t read BJ too close to bedtime.

    Last night I dreamed that Bernie rushed the stage at the convention (with chair brandishing) and he, Jane, and a bunch of 60-ish grey-haired berniebots were hauled off in cuffs by the Secret Service.

    I also dreamed that Bernie tried to organize his convention action in a big group phone call but was too incompetent to set up a group call where everybody could hear him.

    Hopefully those are just crazy dreams.

  265. 265
    sunny raines says:

    has Sanders pledged to remain a Democrat after the election?

  266. 266
    JPL says:

    @nutella: After I watched the freedom girls sing at Trump’s rally, I had several nights of interrupted sleep.

  267. 267
    PST says:

    The superdelegate issue is certainly an easy one to compromise. If 15 percent is too many for some people’s taste, how about 10 percent? I’m not so sure, however, about a rule requiring superdelegate silence until after the primaries. Endorsements are a time-honored and legitimate part of the nomination battle, and superdelegates are drawn from the class of office-holders and party notables who would be endorsing candidates in the ordinary course.

  268. 268
    Miss Bianca says:

    @J R in WV: What I’m saying is that it was John Lennon who made the decision to feature his wife on his recordings, so don’t blame *her* for it – blame *him*.

  269. 269
    different-church-lady says:

    @glory b: OK, gonna need something to make the bacon adhere to the popcorn… this is a job for… MAPLE SYRUP!!!!!

  270. 270
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    Someone, didn’t hear who it was, was just on Mrs Greenspan’s show allowing as how yeah, Hillary would probably throw DWS under the bus if that’s what was needed for party unity.

  271. 271
    J R in WV says:

    @Grumpy Code Monkey:

    Try donating to anyone. I got a call from a candidate running for congress the other day while still asleep in bed. Granted, as a retiree who grew up in a night shift home, I sleep late, but still.

    I will give him credit, when I said I wished the best of luck, but can’t help out right now, he said “Well, thanks for your good wishes!” and hung up right off. It was almost enough for me to look him up and kick in $20 or so.

    But we get 3-4 calls a day every day seeking contributions, often for candidates I have literally never heard of, don’t even know what state they’re running in for what.

  272. 272
    Elie says:

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne:

    I agree… there is something not right about her. Her lack of class was a real surprise for me… Its great to have your assertive wife be a spokesman or have a role, but she forgot that she was also auditioning for a much more visible role than any other wife of a politician in the US. She came across as petty and at times, just a hack… not a good impression. I think they are both grifters/opportunitsts who really fell into a unique opportunity to make really positive and long lasting improvements to the party but instead behaved as entitled, self centered assholes who never understood the gift they had been given…

  273. 273
    different-church-lady says:

    @srv:

    “Even old Fox News didn’t have the right read on what the base is,” one person briefed on the conversation told me. “And we do.”

    Echos of “I have the math” and “We create our own reality.”

  274. 274
    Corner Stone says:

    @nutella: Bernie slashfic?
    Does.Not.Want.

  275. 275
    magurakurin says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: DWS will throw herself under the bus if asked. But I would imagine the next Sanders would see of her will be when swears into her new Senate seat. Bernie is out of his depth at this point.

  276. 276
    Elie says:

    @sunny raines:

    Naw… he re-upped to campaign for his Senate seat as an independent. To me that just screams for a real Democrat to run against him in a primary.

  277. 277
    sunny raines says:

    did Sanders pledge to stay a Democrat after the election?

  278. 278
    Poopyman says:

    @Betty Cracker: Probably far right, but you’re perpetuating a slander on loons. What is “normal” in the far right in the US and all the world is far loonier than what would have been acceptable in society 30 or 40 years ago.

    The new normal isn’t a better normal.

  279. 279
    Corner Stone says:

    Ted Cruz is the fucking worst.

  280. 280
    D58826 says:

    Tailgunner Ted is blasting the democratic filibuster yesterday. Shameless doesn’t begin to describe it.

  281. 281
    Corner Stone says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Trump, Cruz, Shkreli, and ….. ….. ? Who are your choices?

    Cruz, McConnell, Trump, Shkreli, Cruz, and Cruz

  282. 282
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:

    @Elie:

    That trip to the Vatican was all her, I’m sure. Loading her family into the chartered plane, the menu – that’s her. The funneling of $500K of scarce Burlington College money to her daughter’s woodworking school – that’s her. Funding a Caribbean resort as a retreat for Burlington College – that’s all her. She’s an opportunistic grifting big fish in a little pond, and is as delusional as he is.

  283. 283
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Elie:

    Naw… he re-upped to campaign for his Senate seat as an independent.

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/.....nt-in-2018

  284. 284
    Humdog says:

    @Betty Cracker: sorry Betty, but you got this wrong. Quadaffi, or however you spell it, promised to mow down those rebelling against his continued rule. He took steps to sick his Air Force on the cities, ready to bomb hundreds of thousands of his own people. After Rwanda, I am not at all surprised Hillary Clinton could not stomach standing by and watching a quarter million people fighting for freedom die. She convinced Obama to go along with the European plan to stop the planes from bombing Libyan cities.

    Yes, Libyan freedom has been a mess. But the US stood up with Europe and showed the world that we wouldn’t watch the machine of war turned on its own citizens. We didn’t promise to rebuild it, just give them some space to rebuild themselves, if they could rouse themselves to do so.

  285. 285
    Robert Sneddon says:

    @Elie: Not actually true. Vermont only allows folks to register to campaign for Senate in the spring of the election year, not before. Senator Sanders has a fund-raising PAC (Friends of Bernie Sanders) which is registered with the FEC and they still label Sanders as Independent (or Incumbent).

  286. 286
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Elie:

    Naw… he re-upped to campaign for his Senate seat as an independent.

    No, he did not.

  287. 287
    Elie says:

    @Kay:

    I am ok with it to a point. Looking like you just got out of bed and your hair unkempt just signals that you are not organized or prepared and also a certain disrespect for your audience. As President she cannot send that signal EVER. Every male President is tailored to the nines and she must be as well. She has great skin, hair and coloring. No reason for her not to communicate a totally ready for prime time, organized woman CEO of our country. Doesn’t have to be slick or fancy… neat, tidy, put together, low key and efficient. Angela Merkel pops to my mind. Her clothes and appearance must never become an issue in themselves.

  288. 288
    Elie says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I stand corrected. It appears that he has not filed at all yet.

  289. 289
    Elie says:

    Not sure why I can’t edit my own comment ( site said that I didn’t have permission) but I would like to add that even if Bernie has not declared himself, I would like him to get a primary opponent

  290. 290
  291. 291
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Fair Economist:

    I can’t remember the last time somebody “pivoted to the center” after the primary. Not Obama, not Romney, not McCain, not Kerry, not W, not Gore, not Dole, not Clinton. H W Bush in 1988 maybe?

    Romney tried to. It didn’t work. I think the Internet makes it easier to just look up things you said six months ago that used to be buried in the local papers.

  292. 292
    chopper says:

    @Corner Stone:

    FUCKING HUGH HEWITT

    now that’s the worst porn ever right there.

  293. 293
    Corner Stone says:

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Romney tried to. It didn’t work.

    I actually wasn’t sure what he was talking about that candidates never pivot to the center. I distinctly recall some mention of an “Etch A Sketch”.

    asked on CNN whether Romney may be forced so far to the right by rivals Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich in the primary race that it might hurt him if he’s the party’s nominee in the fall. Fehrnstrom responded: “I think you hit a reset button for the fall campaign. Everything changes. It’s almost like an Etch A Sketch — you can kind of shake it up and we start all over again.”

  294. 294
    Schlemazel Khan says:

    @maryQ: “Clinton is very smart, and unlike in 2008, she seems to have a very smart team. ”

    Well, she hired a rutabaga to replace Mark Penn so that was an upgrade

  295. 295
    Barbara says:

    @gbear: Issues have a way of overtaking an agenda. Sanders has not been terrible but yes, somewhat squishy on guns, and contra everyone’s expectations, for the first time in a long time there might be some momentum on guns — and there are many people in our nation whose lives are a daily living hell because of gun violence, and even the threat of gun violence. This is outside of the context of mass shootings, but still, if there is an opportunity to make progress even just for those people, by God, we have to take it whether it fits into a candidate’s preferred list of important issues or not.

  296. 296
    Schlemazel Khan says:

    @different-church-lady:

    SHHHHHhhhh, WHen your enemy is doing something REALLY stupid do not interrupt them

  297. 297
    J R in WV says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    Well, yeah. Love does funny things, eh?

    He was a genius at the things he was good at – his composing, arranging… The nameless-forever dweeb who shot him snuffed out a brilliant light for all of us.

  298. 298
    Schlemazel Khan says:

    @Elie:
    I believe it is a database/server issue that if you try to edit too quickly after posting it does not recognize your request properly and gets locked into that prevent mode. Not much they can do about that.

  299. 299
    Schlemazel Khan says:

    @J R in WV:
    He also was a titanic ego. WHile they we perfectly fine blaming their women it was Paul & John themselves, with egos so bloated neither could admit they were better together than they would be alone.

  300. 300
    D58826 says:

    @Barbara: Bernie has been claiming that his revolution will be powered by million person march’s to scare the goopers into supporting his agenda. Well the no-fly/no-buy legislation seems like a good place to start cranking up one of those million person marches.

  301. 301
    I'm in Queens but still says:

    It’s spectacularly hypocritical to demand open primaries while remaining silent on the single most antidemocratic aspect of the entire primary election, But there’s one context in which it makes perfect sense: trying to change election rules in ways that favor you is exactly what you do if you’re running again. Far less messianic figures than Sanders have found it impossible to get rid of presidentialitis once they were infected, and he strikes me as especially likely to succumb. He’s not remotely likely to give weight to the factors arguing against a run, he’s right that he has a real following and fundraising ability, and he’s clearly smitten by speaking to huge crowds. I say he’s running in 2020, and everything he does is aimed towards that.

  302. 302
    Paul in KY says:

    @Barbara: That’s one of the things that really ages a Pres. Even a POS like Dubya.

  303. 303
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Barbara: Also, it’s an opportunity for the right to demagogue about terrorism and ISIS and scary foreign stuff, and Hillary Clinton’s image as a competent and experienced if excessively hawkish foreign-policy hand actually helps her. I thought Orlando was a gimme for Trump, but he seems to have botched it to an unbelievable degree. I don’t know that Sanders would have been able to take the advantage from it in the way Clinton has.

    I read somewhere that in recent polls, Clinton is actually doing better if there’s a likely-voter screen. That never happens with Democrats.

  304. 304
    Paul in KY says:

    @James E Powell: Or they only hire people who already talk/look like that.

  305. 305
    Corner Stone says:

    @Matt McIrvin:

    I thought Orlando was a gimme for Trump

    I’ve seen this a couple times and am puzzled. What did you think he would do with Orlando?

  306. 306
    catclub says:

    @Corner Stone:

    FUCKING HUGH HEWITT ON MSNBC.

    I am NOT watching that.

  307. 307

    Well. That did not take long on point one. DailyKos has front page article up on Schulz being kicked out of control of DNC, and Brandon Davis, national political director for the Service Employees International Union, Clinton’s choice, is now in charge.

  308. 308
    Elie says:

    @I’m in Queens but still:

    He’ll be 78 and by then, a distant memory. Nope, this is his final shot and he is trying to make it count in his own way…

  309. 309
    Corner Stone says:

    @catclub: But if there were a rusty chainsaw involved? Hmmm??

  310. 310
    Barbara says:

    @Corner Stone: Whatever he could have done, his gloating self-congratulatory tweets plumbed new depths for any recent politician I can think of. Almost like it was a good thing because it validated his world view. Just odious.

  311. 311
    D58826 says:

    NBC’s Katie Tur is reporting that the GOP is worried that Trump will destroy the GOP brand. Hmmm maybe a small contribution to ‘old little hands’ will help that along.

    She also mentioned that Little Mario has gotten his one and only ride on AF One on the trip to Orlando.

  312. 312
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Elie:

    Not sure why I can’t edit my own comment

    Only “valued” or “universally beloved” commenters get to do that.

  313. 313
    D58826 says:

    CDC is reporting that 3 babies with Zika related birth defects have been born in the US. The Pro-life party continues to refuse to adequately find the program to fight the mosquitos that carry the disease. .

  314. 314
    Stan says:

    @aimai: That’s a naive view, IMO.

    Supers went for HRC because they believed she’d win. In a political party you do NOT want to be on the side of the loser. There’s a heavy price to pay when you are.

  315. 315
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:

    @D58826:

    GOP is worried that Trump will destroy the GOP brand

    Uh, the GOP is whatever Trump says it is now, and has been for weeks. The GOP brand was always Trump-lite, now with more electrolytes.

  316. 316

    @J R in WV:
    I disagree with all sides, because of one detail. The US did not intervene in Libya. NATO did, with the urging of the Arab League. We started the bombing campaign earlier than they had the resources to, then got the Hell out and left NATO to do their thing. Taking down Qaddafi was not our decision, and not our action. We supported the actors when they called in our alliance debts. I do think it was the right thing to do, because Libya was already a chaotic civil war with a lot of death and destruction going on, but it’s important that this was NATO’s decision, not the US deciding to intervene.

  317. 317
    daves09 says:

    @Betty Cracker: When theory runs up against practice, theory loses.
    Possibe scenario-traditionally the DNC chair resigns after the convention so that the nominee can put their own person in. Look for DWS to explain that she has to concentrate on her own campaign.

  318. 318
    Paul in KY says:

    @D58826: Woulda thought he had already endorsed her (over Trump).

  319. 319
    Paul in KY says:

    @Kay: Kay, please ask these AFL/CIO guys or gals to try & do what they can to ensure we don’t get any bad optics out of the Cleveland convention.

    You know how good the Repubs are at acting like victims & I’m afraid nuts on our side might give them some stuff they can use (if there was rioting in streets, etc.).

  320. 320
    Elie says:

    @D58826:

    The GOP brand is severely damaged and their party is likely to be splintered after what looks like a crushing Trump defeat. I hope he takes all the racists and anti justice, pro-life assholes with him into the black hole he will create. I doubt it though. Things will be chaotic but they will just continue with any obstruction that they can.

    Trump my think that he will emerge from this unscathed, but I wouldn’t like being any of his businesses. If I am his family, I would be very nervous as to impacts on their businesses. The anti-Trump Republicans like the Bushes and Romneys will not be forgetting or forgiving shit and they are licking their lips and barely covering their fangs in anticipation of feasting on his fat ass. His businesses will be severely impacted if not destroyed.

    The Folks that represent Trump’s base will still be there but its not clear what they will do…. They might be quite violent in the immediate aftermath and present some real governing, law and order issues in specific locales in parts of the south and west.

  321. 321
    MomSense says:

    @Matt McIrvin:

    A big factor in my decision to support Clinton is because I do think this will be a foreign policy election and it is not an area where Sanders stands out. He doesn’t give Democrats any advantage on foreign policy whereas Clinton comes across as competent, knowledgeable, and steady. It’s going to be a significant distinction during the debates.

  322. 322
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Corner Stone:

    I’ve seen this a couple times and am puzzled. What did you think he would do with Orlando?

    I thought the prevailing takeaway would be fear of Muslims and ISIS, and Trump’s “keep out the Muslims” line would be a winner, just like the way he successfully demagogued the Syrian refugee crisis after Paris and San Bernardino. Up until Orlando actually happened, the conventional wisdom was that if anything like that happened, Trump would be hard to beat.

    It hasn’t really worked out that way. Sure, there’s some of that, but I’m hearing more about guns, homophobia and the awfulness of Donald Trump. He probably would have benefited more if he hadn’t led by congratulating himself on Twitter.

  323. 323
    justsomeguy says:

    @Schlemazel Khan: So it could have been Rubio or Cruz ? Honestly, would that have been a better outcome ?

  324. 324
    Jack the Second says:

    Re: the selection of the DNC chair, when there is a Democratic President, they make a recommendation. Otherwise it is a open election.

    Re: superdelegates overturning the popular vote, if Trump was the presumptive nominee for the Democrats, I would absolutely want superdelegates overturning it, even if it cost us the general. Preventing a terrible person from gaining power is more important than winning.

  325. 325
    Elie says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    LOL! I was suspicious about that! ( Making furrowed brow and pouty lips)

  326. 326
    Kay says:

    @Paul in KY:

    You know how good the Repubs are at acting like victims & I’m afraid nuts on our side might give them some stuff they can use (if there was rioting in streets, etc.).

    I see your point and tend to agree but I don’t think they’ve had anything to do with the anti-Trump protests. I don’t even know who one would talk to and ask not to turn it into a brawl. The anti-Trump protesters seem leaderless to me. I don’t know anything about them.

  327. 327
    Mike in DC says:

    Trumps loss will mark the destruction of the non politician outsider savior meme. That still leaves the true believer conservative savior meme, which hopefully will be similarly crushed. If they ever get around to nominating a “diverse” moderate RINO squish with some charisma, they can get back into the WH. Dwayne Johnson, aka The Rock, has expressed interest in (eventually) getting into politics. He’s a Republican, so that would be the kind of pivot to both welcome (as in welcome to the modern era, GOP) and fear (as in here come’s some terrible public policy).

  328. 328
    Elie says:

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Trump is so off the scale of where he was before in the primaries. He is also very very disorganized and swimming in details that he doesn’t delegate because he does not know how to, does not trust and has not hired for all the necessary positions in his campaign. The water is up to his chin and still rising and this man cannot swim for shit. This could get real real messy before long. Lots of different and bad scenarios for him and the Republican Party… And Trump so savaged the other candidates in the primaries that there really is not close second to go to.

  329. 329
    Kay says:

    @Paul in KY:

    I also think “brawls surrounding Donald Trump” tend to go to Donald Trump, not Hillary Clinton. I don’t think anti-Trump protesters are considered something Hillary Clinton is responsible for- it’s more like general chaos.

  330. 330
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Kay: Trump tried to blame Bernie Sanders for them, if I recall correctly. Nobody seemed to buy it, though.

  331. 331
    D58826 says:

    John McCain is saying that Obama is directly responsible for the attack in Orlando because he hasn’t destroyed Daesh. Trump is simply the purest distillation of the prevented id of the the GOP.

  332. 332
    D58826 says:

    Turtle is truely delusional

    WASHINGTON — Donald Trump would respect limits on his authority if he’s elected president, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) said Monday.

    “I think Donald Trump will understand when he’s sworn in the limits of his authority,” McConnell told conservative radio interviewer Hugh Hewitt. “He’ll have a White House counsel. There will be others who point out there’s certain things you can do and you can’t do.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....cf7ad55b0f

  333. 333
    D58826 says:

    The democrats did not like Reagan or W but I don’t remember any leading democrat accuse the President of treason as the GOP does. Heck if a democrat suggested that W’;s tie didn’t match his shirt the GOP pitched a fit about not supporting the President in war time.

  334. 334
    glory b says:

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: I’ve thought the same thing every time I’ve seen her!

    You’ve got money in the bank! Spring for a bra fitting!

    They do them free at Macy’s! I know because I used to work there in “Intimate Apparel” (I always cracked up at that name).

  335. 335
    glory b says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: I guess I’ve now ben exposed as a mean girl at heart.

    “Well, if you don’t have anything good to say, come sit next to me.”

    I don’t know who said that, but I wish it was me.

  336. 336
    Corner Stone says:

    @D58826:

    “He’ll have a White House counsel. There will be others who point out there’s certain things you can do and you can’t do.”

    McConnell has not watched one minute of any Trump event this campaign cycle.

  337. 337
    Elie says:

    @glory b:

    Count me in on the criticism of Lady Jane. No excuses for the pseudo hippie thing going on. She is supposed to be representing a major political party as the wife of the potential nominee. Get it together please. Hair, foundation garments and the whole thing. Nordstrom’s also has assistance not only with foundation garments but selecting outfits, makeup and the whole thing… Nothing over the top if a woman is modest and low key, but just a little assistance to look your best out of respect for your audience and for the role you are playing! It aint about YOU.

  338. 338
    Elie says:

    @glory b:

    She sure didn’t mind spending money on that charter to the Vatican and lobster on the menu in flight…

  339. 339
    glory b says:

    @Kropadope: “Funny, I thought Democrats wanted to make it easier for people to participate and didn’t want to tell a plurality of the voters to go fuck themselves.”

    No, just that there’s a limit to the amount of ass kissing we have time to do.

  340. 340
    glory b says:

    @Kay: Well of course you would, you’re not in the mean girl end of the pool with us:)

    Also, we have been spoiled by Michelle. She set a high bar and Ms. Sanders can’t reach it.

  341. 341
    Elie says:

    @Kropadope:

    It gets complicated because welcoming new members of a party is not a one way street. The new participants should also be respectful of the organization that they wish to join. We work and talk with each other to build mutual respect and understand the strengths and contributions of each side. Bernie and some of his followers are demanding that their ideas are adopted without any consideration of what others already part of the party desire or respecting the rationale for what exists. This is like a hostile takeover and by its name, will not go well for the insurgent. Bernie and his team are blowing this and there was really no reason to take the demand approach that was taken. As I said in another comment thread, it really bothers me what he is doing because it reminds me so much of a person that is very close to me and his personality has cost him so much over the years.

  342. 342
    Elie says:

    @glory b:

    I think Kay was talking about Hillary in the comment? Maybe I am wrong.

  343. 343
    glory b says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Well, she’s head and shoulders over Sanders.

    I love Hillary, but a consultation with a stylist would be a good idea.

  344. 344
    glory b says:

    @Elie: I’ve mentioned them both, but maybe I wasn’t clear enough. I’m supposed to be listening to a tutorial on a new work application. My bad.

  345. 345
    Betty Cracker says:

    @glory b: I agree Michelle Obama sets a high bar for style, but isn’t it all a matter of taste? There are plenty of people who carp about her hair and clothes. Same with Hillary Clinton. Personally, I find all that bullshit obnoxious. It don’t give a damn what Jane Sanders wears. It shouldn’t matter.

  346. 346
    negative 1 says:

    How can you support Debbie Wasserman Schultz for anything? The heck with DNC chair, I don’t even want her in Congress. Our union campaigned against payday loan scammers, as did almost every other progressive group I can think of, and so did Elizabeth Warren. Who came to the grift-debt defense? Why, DNC chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz:

    http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/war.....ay-lenders

    Demands for her scalp are because she is actively working against her party and against something to which any moral person should be opposed. The sooner it gets done, the better and I don’t particularly care by whom.

  347. 347
    My Truth Hurts says:

    You just won’t ever be happy until Bernie has his tongue so far up Hillary’s ass they’re french kissing, will you? Just losing isn’t enough. He needs to prostrate himself to her publicly.

  348. 348
    Corner Stone says:

    @My Truth Hurts:

    You just won’t ever be happy until Bernie has his tongue so far up Hillary’s ass they’re french kissing, will you? Just losing isn’t enough. He needs to prostrate himself to her publicly.

    He’s irrelevant and growing more so out of any possibility of leverage for anything, each and every day. He wants to settle petty scores. He has abandoned any pretense at policy.

  349. 349
    Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap says:

    @My Truth Hurts: You’re funny.

  350. 350
    Elie says:

    @Corner Stone:

    I like that one also. She commands her space in it —

  351. 351
    Betty Cracker says:

    @negative 1: I don’t support her, but these particular demands for her scalp are sour grapes over the primary, not her cover for payday loansharks. It’s petty score settling. I won’t shed any tears if DWS sees the undercarriage of a bus, but if it were up to me, I’d tell Sanders to go pound sand on the procedural shit. Acquiescing gives the appearance that his complaints about being screwed out of the nomination have substance. They don’t.

  352. 352
    Corner Stone says:

    @Elie: She commands the commanding heights! She will expropriate the appropriators! She will lead us to The People’s Glorious Victory!

  353. 353
    Betty Cracker says:

    @My Truth Hurts: Nope. I expect Sanders to suck it up and support the nominee so the bloated orange demagogue is defeated. He lost. That’s how it works.

  354. 354
    Elie says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Betty:
    Yes, in general it shouldn’t matter as a reflection of her taste but it DOES matter if your appearance and grooming makes you the object of negative comments – especially in politics. Life in politics is already hard enough. Why add to particularly your partner’s burden? Also, why do we dress up for anything? To me its a statement about my pride in myself and also at the same time, respect for the people I am in front of. Men routinely dress in suits and everything looks tip top. Hair, nose and ear hairs trimmed, beards trimmed and clean and shoes in good repair. For a woman in politics, it conveys respect for her audience (I think you are special and I am demonstrating this to you by the respect that I take in my appearance. I think you are worth the effort and I want you to be proud that I represent or could represent you). It is not so much about her choice as it is a message to the audience — I am special and I represent YOU.

    Now I agree that not everyone should be or wants to be a clothes horse. You can be low key but everything needs to be in good shape: hair, nails and undergarments, shoes, etc need to be the same standard as for men in politics.

  355. 355
    terry chay says:

    @SenyorDave: The interesting point here is Sanders is a victim of his own mystique. His appeal among his voters in the primary and in Vermont is his “honest” voting record. So if you take away his committee appointments, he’s still forced to vote with the Democrats or lose his entire base. He can only take out his petty grievances on things that don’t leave a mark with the electorate (DWS, Barney Frank, etc).

  356. 356
    Paul in KY says:

    @Kay: I would say whomever is their top person in Cleveland. They would then want some of their goons out there to ‘intercept’ people doing stupid shit.

  357. 357
    Paul in KY says:

    @Kay: If the optics are awful: Elderly suit wearing Convention attendee assaulted by dark skinned or light skinned young jerkwad, then we can have a problem.

  358. 358
    Paul in KY says:

    @glory b: Was one of FDR’s daughters, I think.

  359. 359
    Paul in KY says:

    @My Truth Hurts: I would be fine with that.

Comments are closed.