Breaking news from AP:
LOS ANGELES (AP) — Striding into history, Hillary Clinton will become the first woman to top the presidential ticket of a major U.S. political party, capturing commitments Monday from the number of delegates needed to become the Democrats’ presumptive nominee.
I remember watching the election returns in 2008 with tears in my eyes when President Obama became our first black president. And now we’re going to break the 229-year male lock on the Oval Office? “Proud to be a Democrat” — it’s not just a tag line!
Comrade Mary
[this is good]
Patricia Kayden
Very proud to be a member of a party which is making history with back to back Presidents!
Go Hillary!
Corner Stone
I eagerly await two parts of the Concern Troll Voltron when Brachiator and Jim C. show up to tell us all a collective, “Nuh-uh! She’s awful! at this!”
aimai
@Corner Stone: Corner Stone, I could kiss you for this.
JPL
OT.. How are the chickens, Betty?
dmsilev
I was kind of hoping that this would come tomorrow; I think it’d have been better if she went over the top thanks to getting the pledged delegates from New Jersey rather than from some additional supers. A week or so from now, nobody will care about that, so it’s a pretty minor quibble on top of some great (and long-awaited) news.
Schlemazel Khan
@Corner Stone:
drop back a couple threads, just before the NHL one. There are a couple of them there
SiubhanDuinne
I didn’t think this would make me so emotional, but it is and I am.
Congratulations to our Nominee Apparent, and now let’s all work our respective and collective asses off for her between now and November.
Baud
Next up, virtual candidates.
But for now, congrats Hillary and team!
aimai
Ok, to get to what I really wanted to say down thread. This is a fucking historic moment. Its huge for women in this country. And I guess I’m just sick and tired of having people try to put an asterisk next to things like Obama’s win or Hillary’s (absit omen) win. ** Its a big fucking deal.
**What I mean by an asterisk were all those people who spent time explaining that Obama wasn’t really black, or he was raised largely in a white world, or that Bill Ayres wrote his book, or that he wasn’t the brains of the outfit, all of which were things that were said by Democrats, by the way, as well as Republicans. Hillary has largely been treated as her own woman but I think that is partially the result of years of right wing attacks on her as an unfeminine woman who didn’t know her place. No one bothers to accuse Bill of being the power behind her (although I have absolutely seen people on Kos or other progressive blogs asserting that Bill might have to “write her speeches” as though she hadn’t been a lawyer and in public life exactly as long as he has).
Corner Stone
@dmsilev:
The hurt feelings were inevitable, no matter when or how she got to the number. This is just going to get us there that much faster. So we can unleash The PBO! And The Kraken! And The Biden!
Hunter Gathers
Congratulations. Hillary.
Now go cut his fucking balls off.
Please.
RobertDSC-iPhone 6
Very happy.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
Pancakes are for trolls! Waffles are for winners. Go Hillary.
Major Major Major Major
Well, that was unexpected.
@dmsilev: Me too. This sounds like it was AP doing the legwork though, not the campaign announcement. That’ll come tomorrow at 8:01 Pacific, I’d guess.
@Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap: Mmmm. Oh man. I might have to go get waffles for late breakfastdinner tonight.
SciNY
Wow. Another one for the history books. What a wonderful thing it is to see this barrier smashed in our lifetimes.
aimai
@dmsilev: I think the campaign itself was trying to wait it out until after NJ but they simply can’t contain the press desire for a “first” announcement. And this is something I pointed out over at Kos when the bernie dead enders were demanding that Hillary hold off announcing that she had clinched the nomination. She simply can’t wait too long. If she did the press would announce and then, a few days later, they would simply refuse to cover her rally and acceptance speech.
JPL
CNN refuses to go off message. It’s a close race.
Congrats to Secretary Clinton.
Schlemazel Khan
Just noticed on Coles tweet list that Mon General, JC Christian is still chugging along on twitter instead of his dead blog. I used to love his site, marvelous snark. So sad to see he has gone around the bend for Bernie and Doctor Stein.
Run, Lillian!
Oh wow. I wish this happened tomorrow in NJ with pledged delegates, but this feels good. It can sink in a bit before the party tomorrow in Brooklyn!
Wow. As a woman, I am in awe and yes- it feels awfully good to be a dem.
And this week, when Obama jumps into the campaigning ring, its really going to feel like things have come full circle. Love it.
Chat Noir
I saw this on my BBC News app. Very excited to get to vote for Hillary in November.
dmsilev
@Corner Stone: Well, there is that. One day more or less won’t make any difference in the long run. Anyway, the Clinton campaign is having their big event in New York tomorrow, so that’s presumably when she’ll declare victory.
Mike J
@Major Major Major Major:
Corner Stone
This is straight balls.
z
This guarantees that Sanders supporters will blame the AP being in the bag for Hillary for any losses tomorrow… that a premature announcement of a Clinton victory was a conspiracy to depress turnout.
Edit: But none of this matters. Obama V Clinton was FAR more toxic and it probably helped Obama more that it hurt him that everyone was tired of the Jeremiah Wright clip long before the general election. Clinton’s goldman speeches, emails, and sketchy clinton foundation donors would’ve been brought up by any GOP nominee anyway; better that everyone’s sick of hearing about it by October.
schrodinger's cat
Congratulations Hillz!
Ramping Up will be soon here to rain on the parade.
Major Major Major Major
@Mike J: I know, I read the article. ?
JPL
@Run, Lillian!: Don’t worry, CNN will announce it as breaking news tomorrow after the polls close.
Corner Stone
@dmsilev: I agree. And tbh, I think HRC demurs off this. She will be respectful and fight for CA and NJ and other contested races and let the AP and NBC do their own thing.
But this lets her surrogates gear the fuck up.
dmsilev
@aimai: She’ll make the big announcement and big speech tomorrow evening, right after polls close in NJ. Even if AP is calling it now, the networks are going to be doing big election-night coverage tomorrow so she’ll get her (thoroughly deserved) victory moment.
Baud
Apparently, the Clinton campaign isn’t happy with the premature announcement.
Uncle Ebeneezer
Why it’s almost like she IS a good campaigner.
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: Can’t blame them.
patroclus
This is fantastic news!! Go Hillz! Our first female nominee ever!! This is amazing!! Before New Jersey and California!!
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: Again, she should hate the media.
patroclus
@Baud: So sorry you lost! But you gave it a good fight! I hope you’re graceful in defeat!
sigaba
Shorter Bernie Bot: “A couple superdelegates just told California that its votes don’t count!”
Schlemazel Khan
@Baud:
I look forward to the day we can have an atheist President. That is a huge hurdle we need to clear. I strongly suspect we could have an openly gay President or even a Jewish President before we get one that is openly atheist.
I admit that I am still surprised that the Dems could do this, I assumed the first black POTUS would have to be a Republican simply because of all the ugly they would bring against a Democrat of color. Well, they brought the ugly & they brought it hard and they failed as badly as they have failed at governing. Now we will learn the ugly they can bring against a female candidate. I wish them as much luck. It is slow and it is painful but gradually we are making some progress.
Major Major Major Major
TBogg tweets
Donut
Super-proud and gratified that I had the chance to vote for Hillary Clinton in the New York primary this year. This is her time. 2008 was not. Now.
MazeDancer
Thrilling news!
TV not sure how to cover it, but MSNBC saying, yes, NBC calling it for her, too.
But Hillary’s campaign seems to be wanting to have the big party they already planned tomorrow.
We’re celebrating. Twitter celebrating. After all, History was just made by AP releasing the victory news in a tweet.
Ultraviolet Thunder
About frikkin’ time.
She’ll be a fine president. I don’t even mind that her haters will prosper too.
patroclus
@Schlemazel Khan: We’ve already had James Buchanan, but I’ll take a second openly gay President or our first lesbian President.
z
@Baud: I’m guessing the first two authors of the piece are the ones at AP tasked with calling superdelegates every day (nearly all of their stories are about delegate math). Probably pushed pretty hard to get this piece out before the results tomorrow.
Renie
@Baud: Did you get your call from Obama yet?
Omnes Omnibus
@Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap: Where do you stand on pannekoeken?
dmsilev
@Baud: Not surprising.
I almost hesitate to ask, but have we heard any response from the Sanders campaign?
Schlemazel Khan
@patroclus:
I thought of him but do not recall him being out of the closet so he does not count.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
I can’t believe it. I can’t believe it.
Debbie Wasserman Schultz and the corporate media have given the election to the person with the most votes.
What kind of democracy do we live in when someone with 3 million more votes is declared the winner?!?!
You hear about this kind of thing happening in other countries, but you never thought it could happen here.
Not here.
Baud
@Renie: Was that Obama? I thought it was someone selling extended auto warranties.
amygdala
What timing–next week there will be a White House Summit called the United State of Women.
Glidwrith
I’m numb. It happened. It really, really happened!
Baud
@dmsilev: Chris Hayes just read it off. Same crap.
magurakurin
@dmsilev: I think he said “Johnny Fontane will never make that movie!”
debbie
@Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap:
Is that your blog?
Klown
I guess I don’t need to bother voting tomorrow. The party insiders put their thumbs on the scale and made my vote meaningless.
Renie
@Hunter Gathers: I don’t think he has any.
Tom Q
1) Great!
2) It’s clear the Clinton folk didn’t want this to happen this way. It’s like a baseball team clinching the division because the second-place team loses — you’ll pour the champagne, but you’d rather the celebration had begun on the field. Plus there’s going to be a few more hard feelings from the losing side, even though this was strictly a media thing.
Yes, it’ll all be forgotten in short order, but it didn’t happen in the perfect way.
3) But, back to first principles: hooray!
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@magurakurin: he’s gonna need a long shower tomorrow morning.
Percysowner
@sigaba: All the while declaring that those same superdelegates will be convinced to vote for Bernie at the convention!
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@debbie: Oh no.
Richard Mayhew
@JPL: hey I have the DVR set for CNN for the New Jersey close just do my daughter can see the nomination “clinch” on video whenever she needs any encouragement to dream big… will need to replace that with video in November too
Omnes Omnibus
@Klown: Bullshit.
Betty Cracker
@Richard Mayhew: What a good dad! I’m so happy my teenager will enter adulthood in a world where this is possible. That damn sure wasn’t the case for me, my mother and all our foremothers.
debbie
@Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap:
Ah, okay. But if you had a blog, I’m sure the photography would be just as nice!
amygdala
@dmsilev: Yup.
Mike J
@Richard Mayhew: You’ll have to tell her about when people used to say “any boy can grow up to be president.”
Splitting Image
Worth the wait. It will seem even sweeter in November when she clobbers the sexist jerk.
Chyron HR
@Klown:
Life’s rough, kid.
RandomMonster
As usual, Betty, you have a way with words. I was similarly moved when Obama got the nomination and was elected. And I’m looking forward to another historic moment for this party.
Report
@aimai: YES
Baud
The news jumped the gun. Everyone wanted to be first.
Iowa Old Lady
I honestly did not think I would see this in my lifetime.
Stella
Although I was an Obama supporter, I still felt sort of bad when HRC lost in 2008. My emotions were very mixed. I’m just as happy about this nomination now as I was about Obama’s in 2008. (Except this time I don’t feel bad about the loser….)
@Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap: Yeasted waffles!
hovercraft
@aimai:
Yes she’s been asking supers to hold off any announcements till after Tuesday.
But this is a great historic day.
@SiubhanDuinne:
Back to back History !!
SarahT
@Run, Lillian!: Hey, you going to the Brooklyn event tomorrow ? I’m gonna go – hope we can get in !
Stella
@aimai: All the Clinton “dynasty” bullshit implies that HRC needed help — unlike a man — to get where she is today.
aimai
@Uncle Ebeneezer: Oh, be-have!
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@Omnes Omnibus: Tried once, and prefer them to regular pancakes.
SarahT
@Donut: YES
maryQ
Hmm. I feel inexplicably ambivalent. I mean, Hilary is my candidate-and I am unambivalent about that. But I kind of wanted tomorrow to count. Not sure why this “survey” happened now. Oh, well. Yeah, Hilary! No go and win.
Run, Lillian!
I don’t know how to post tweets but Hillary has tweeted: We’re flattered, AP, but we have primaries to win. CA, MT, NM, SD, ND, vote tomorrow!
Absolutely right.
Sanders apparently responded that Hillary doesn’t have the pledged and the supers don’t vote until convention.
No congrats or anything.
Boo.
dmsilev
@Baud:
The news media: Showing all the restraint and class of a YouTube comments thread.
Renie
@Stella: Really? I think the opposite. I think Hillary would have gone further sooner if she wasn’t handicapped by the Clinton name. She’s a fantastic person in her own right.
Baud
@Run, Lillian!: Good response.
geg6
Not gonna celebrate until tomorrow but I think I’m pretty emotional about this and it sort of surprises me. I was an Obot before he even declared and survived the PUMA wars with minor injuries. Started this primary Bernie-curious. But she won me over (and he lost me). Still didn’t resonate completely with me what a historic and empowering thing it would be if she won the nomination (which is weird because I’m a Second Wave little sister). But I’m more and more invested in this as a woman as the reality comes to pass. Like Obama, I never thought I’d live to see the day.
sigaba
@Percysowner: The best I can do with Bernie’s argument is something like: He thinks that the DNC and the media have conspired together to make Hillary look unbeatable, in part by promoting superdelegate vote tallies as if they were “real.”
The thing where us normals get confused is we insist that because Hillary won more votes, she should win. To the Bernie voters this is exactly backwards. The fact that more people voted for Hillary isn’t evidence of Hillary’s legitimate, it’s evidence that the process was rigged. It’s not just the delegate process, or the conventions, it’s actually the voters themselves that have been rigged. So supers are required to provide the necessary un-rigging.
(I could throw in some cheap shot here about socialists’ general contempt for elections, and their attitude that when they lose elections, their positions or leaders aren’t the problem, the voters are, and they should be overruled. But I won’t. There’s a certain kind of leftist who will tell you that elections in America are pointless, because elections picked Bush twice.)
Betty Cracker
@Run, Lillian!: Love your nym! I always read it in the voice of Titus Andromedon…
@geg6: Yep.
Run, Lillian!
@SarahT:
Oh, I wish! I’m hundreds (thousand plus really) of miles from there, in Denver. Will be watching. Good luck getting in, what an amazing chance to be a part of history!
Adam L Silverman
@Baud: I think she does. They certainly hate her.
raven
Andrea Mitchell is telling us that both Hill and Bernie didn’t want this now.
Baud
@raven: MSNBC wants us to believe they aren’t part of the cabal manipulating all of us.
Run, Lillian!
@Betty Cracker:
Thank you! Oh how I love Titus, but Carol King as Lillian is my spirit animal. :)
Mike J
kd bart
I swear 20 yrs from now we’re going to find Bernie or Busters in the wilds of Vermont who still won’t concede that the 2016 race is over.
rikyrah
Mayhew,
You are a good egg for doing that for your daughter. ,
?
Schlemazel Khan
@Omnes Omnibus:
There are a couple new bullshit artists around here recently, I wonder if they are all the same loser & if that loser is a tru beliefer or a paid troll for the GOP. It is getting so you can’t tell the two groups apart
Betty Cracker
@raven: I don’t get Mitchell’s appeal at all. She regurgitates Beltway convention wisdom nonstop and is treated as an oracle for it. I’d sooner look for original political insights from my hens.
@JPL: The hens are wet, wind blown and crabby but otherwise okay!
schrodinger's cat
@Betty Cracker: Are they mad?
raven
@Betty Cracker: Mileage
CaseyL
Fantastic news. It’s been wonderful seeing Hillary rise from the loss in 2008 to become a loyal and competent Secretary of State who repaired the relationships with other countries that Bush-Cheney had trashed. To see her now taking the Democratic Presidential nomination is thrilling.
#I’mWithHer. Yay!
Renie
@raven: I can’t stand her. How can you watch it? You must be a strong person with a strong stomach.
maryQ
Daughter (6th grade): Awesome! So, no more Bernie?
Me: Yep. He’ll still whine, though.
Daughter: Oh, crap. All day tomorrow the boys are going to be shouting about “Hilary’s playing the woman card! Hilary’s playing the woman card!”
Is it bad for one to hope that one’s daughter becomes a lesbian?
Fair Economist
Is it too tinfoily to think somebody’s trying to suppress Democratic turnout in tomorrow’s primary, where jungle primaries and complicated ballots could reasonably result in single-party generals in even swing districts?
Major Major Major Major
@Schlemazel Khan: People get silly when their preferred candidate loses. I’m in a good mood right now so I’m ignoring it :)
Adam L Silverman
@Baud: Premature nomination-announcement. 1 out of every 5 reporters… The important thing is for them is to seek treatment and to speak with their doctors honestly about the problem.
Mike J
@maryQ:
You should get your daughter a woman card from the Clinton swag shop.
SarahT
@Run, Lillian!: Thanks ! We’re gonna head over very early & be prepared for long security lines and shit weather. Too much to hope there’ll be a cash bar, I guess ? :)
raven
@Renie: I’m watching Rachel.
maryQ
@Mike J: Actually, I invested in a few decks on Kickstarter. The project got funded and I should be receiving them some time in July. So, me, my daughter, and five special people will get a deck.
Adam L Silverman
@maryQ: Tomorrow will count. Tomorrow will put to bed, once and for all, the regular/earned delegate count issues.
SiubhanDuinne
@efgoldman:
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
raven
@SarahT: There damn sure won’t be a free one.
Major Major Major Major
@maryQ: Lesbians are awesome.
SarahT
@geg6: Seconded.
Mike J
@SarahT: Love the fact that HQ is at the corner of Tillary and Clinton.
JanieM
@maryQ:
Thanks for my laugh of the day. And no, it’s not bad. Being a lesbian has its advantages. :-)
Renie
@Betty Cracker: Is the storm coming by you?
aimai
@sigaba: very good analysis. The thing that I would add is that the most devoted Bernie bots believe that the entire primary should take place in a kind of Rawlsian veil of ignorance. The only true and worthy and authentic candidate would come from completely outside the party and no candidate would recieve any kind of backing from the party or from individual named Democrats. They should have no friends or acquaintances, even. They imagine the primary not only as a kind of race, but as a kind of race in which the candidates must be perfectly matched in size and weight–if one is lighter then he wears weights. Bernie is, of course, the ideal candidate and Hillary should have accepted a handicap to bring herself down to his level, like not being permitted to know DWS or President Obama, or not accepting money.
SarahT
@raven: That much I know :) And I doubt the Secret Service would miss a flask, however carefully hidden, but whaddyagonnado ?
SiubhanDuinne
@SiubhanDuinne:
Stupid FYWP won’t allow me back in to edit my own fucking comment and put in the second close blockquote.
I’m sure FYWP has its reasons for doing what it does, but I’m damned if I can figure out what they are.
A Ghost To Most
@Schlemazel Khan:
Agree, although I prefer to believe that Big O is an atheist who is keeping up appearances for the sake of being electable. I’m hoping he “comes out” and punks the “silly” people at some point in the future.
SarahT
@Mike J: Ha ! Yep, it is.
D58826
@sigaba: Listening to Rachel recap Bernie’s reaction to the news that Hillary has gone over the top. He has spend 4 months complaining that the SD process is corrupt. Now he is arguing that these corrupt SD should flip and vote for Bernie, the popular vote be da**med. This s***b knew the rules when he jumped into the race and now he wants them changed so he can win. The sooner he is driven into the sunset the better. Listening to the Bernie spokesman say it’s important that the voters be heard tomorrow but after the primary election is complete, with Hillary having a popular vote lead, the SD should ignore that and vote for Bernie.
Oh god these people are beyond berlief. Rachal just nailed the Bernie spokesman with the the walk down memory lane to 2008. In 2008, once Obama had the pledged delegates and SD to clinch the nomination he came out and supported Obama. He also said the primary was over. Bernie’s spokesman’s response ‘ ah well, ahh ahh Bernie has started a revolution so the rules that applied in 2008 don’t apply today’. Even Calvin would be embarrassed by the total disregard for the rules.
burnspbesq
@sigaba:
As a California Democrat, I’m a little disappointed that we don’t get to drive the last nail in Bernie’s coffin. But I’ll get over it.
Congrats to Madame Secretary, and let’s go kick some ass in November.
Adam L Silverman
@efgoldman: Maybe she’ll even get to see them put:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUnSGz8vW0U
Elie
Late to the thread but share my pride — and OPTIMISM at its heart for this. Optimism was what I also felt when Barak was nominated….. And so it goes…. energy, optimism, eagerness and intestinal fortitude to face what is ahead… Amen!
aimai
@kd bart: Living on a diet of pot and maple sugar.
Baud
@SiubhanDuinne:
I blame Hillary!
LAC
@efgoldman: lol! I know. Jaysus…
raven
Hils is on Rachel
Mike J
@burnspbesq:
You will put her over the top with pledged delegates, and that’s the really important thing.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
SarahT
@efgoldman: That’s a smart kid you’ve got there – but you already knew that :)
Baud
@raven: Recorded before the announcement.
SiubhanDuinne
@Baud:
Gonna be seeing a lot of that the next 4-8 years, I reckon.
SarahT
@maryQ: Another super-smart Balloon-Juicer kid !
Major Major Major Major
@burnspbesq: Sure we do. Putting her into the majority of pledged delegates counts. (I don’t have the numbers handy–will she do that with just NJ?)
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: Obama is still President. Don’t deny him his due.
Baud
Sanders to media: Don’t declare Hillary the nominee tomorrow.
Media to Sanders: Ok.
Ella in New Mexico
Yaaaay! All the voters in California, Montana, New Jersey, New Mexico, North and South Dakota can just skip the polls tomorrow!!!
Except, they can’t. And shouldn’t. And wont. Even if the AP’s unethical editorial board wants them to.
As much of a shoe-in as Hilary is, I find it irresponsible for the AP to be trying to mess with turnout tomorrow, the last big primary of the year. But then, maybe that’s EXACTLY what they want to do…
Baud
@Omnes Omnibus: Special occasion. Obama will understand.
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: Fair ’nuff.
SarahT
@dmsilev: Heh
cokane
To be fair, between Boehner and Trump, Republicans have made great strides for Orange Americans
SarahT
@Ella in New Mexico: Damn straight. Trying to kneecap her, but it won’t work,
Iowa Old Lady
@maryQ:
LOL. I can’t remember where I read or saw it, but an older woman character said she was becoming a “political lesbian,” meaning she had no interest in sex with other women, but she was tired of dealing with men. I sometimes know how she felt.
Baud: I blame Hillary!
That is awesome! LOL
hovercraft
@Klown:
My mother, sister and I will be voting for the first female nominee in history tomorrow in New Jersey.
I can tell my grandkids I voted for the first black and the first woman presidents.
Go vote ! It matters.
Elie
@Betty Cracker:
And after so many “lifts” and other facial “interventions”, her facial expressions never change. I bet her whole face is numb… to match that numb soul of hers. Dinners with her and her husband (Alan Greenspan – not yet actually dead though dead in essence a while ago), must be like those day of the dead paintings of skeletons doing lively things while actually being dead.. (yes, I am cruel)
Keith G
I suspect that Mitch McConnell and Chuck Grassley are getting messages from the few long term Conservative thinkers out there that HRC is looking to be a prohibitive favorite in the fall and that it is time to start planning the Merrick Garland hearings and vote before someone gets to Obama and convinces him to withdraw this nomination.
Trump seems to be doing everything in his power to drive his nascent campaign into a ditch and take the Senate Republicans with him. If that happens, a few smart Hillary SCOTUS nominations would give Liberals the Court for quite a while.
Jeffro
@kd bart:
I think there was a Lt. Onoda who lasted over 3 decades in the jungle after Japan had surrendered…you sayin’ the BOBs can’t hold out longer than that? Come on ;)
Cacti
@Ella in New Mexico:
Don’t worry, you’re still special.
Major Major Major Major
@Ella in New Mexico: It’s shoo-in. I say this as a friendly FYI, not a correction.
Mnemosyne
I’m not excited yet, but I don’t get to vote until tomorrow. I will be more excited then, especially since I will also be voting for several other women as well.
sigaba
@aimai:
The Democratic Party and Hillary Clinton existed prior to August 2015. This fact alone proves that the election was rigged. Rigged I tell you.
@D58826:
You say you want a Revolution, well you know… The revolution means votes don’t count. Yay revolution.
El Caganer
@kd bart: …and the locals will tell tales of the Sanders Sasquatch…..
Elie
@Ella in New Mexico:
You got that right, sista. But nevermind — hopefully voters will still do the right thing… What a bunch of assholes at AP.
Jeffro
@D58826:
I forget who it was had an excerpt from someone else up on Twitter* today, noting that Bernie & Co want to talk about pledged delegates, then as soon as it’s pointed out that Hillary has the lead there, they want to talk about super delegates; then as soon as it’s pointed out that Hillary has the lead THERE, they go back to pledged delegates – an infinite loop of bullshit.
(*so you know this is well-sourced and also highly researched info here, is what I’m saying)
hovercraft
@Betty Cracker:
I loathe Mrs Greenspan.
LAC
@D58826: of course, Rachel manages to undercut things with her having fucking kraken face Andrea Mitchell on with her faux concern about the Clinton campaign.
Cacti
Formal endorsement from President Obama tomorrow?
Betty Cracker
@Renie: Yes. It’s been raining pretty much nonstop since 3 AM. Not a big deal by FL standards, though — a mere sun shower!
maryQ
@Baud: LOL!
Renie
@raven: what did she say?
hellslittlestangel
I’m proud and happy we’ll have our first woman President in just seven and a half months.
Is it wrong for me to also look forward to gloating over angry, bitter right-wingers?
Iowa Old Lady
@Betty Cracker: Someone I know chose yesterday to fly to Orlando with her family for a vacation. They were supposed to go to Universal Studios today. I hope they took rain gear.
Ella in New Mexico
@Cacti: and you’re still jealous.
Donut
This just in: reactions from the Bernie Sanders camp:
https://youtu.be/q7vtWB4owdE
D58826
@Ella in New Mexico: While I think AP should have waited, NJ would put her over the top long before the West coast polls close. It’s still important to vote, esp for the down ballot candidates. If she had gone over the top after New York would you feel that your vote didn’t count. For better or worse that’s the way the system works. Maybe one of the reforms going forward is to have 6 primary days over 3 months with a random selection of states in each cycle but that isn’t the way it is now.
Ken
@efgoldman:
My God, you’re right. An entire generation will be raised thinking that is normal and acceptable. The country may never recover.
(And, since I caused some confusion last night: sarcasm.)
sigaba
@Cacti: I assume he’ll wait until California is called.
Ella in New Mexico
@SarahT: Exactly. She’s not happy about this, either. Even if her BJ supporters are.
Baud
Clinton spokesperson on Rachel — focused on tomorrow.
Ella in New Mexico
@sigaba: because he has class. And so does Hilary. And they’re realists who understand there’s much work to be dont.
And you really don’t.
patroclus
@sigaba:If you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao, you ain’t gonna make it with anyone anyhow”
sigaba
@Ella in New Mexico: I think that was uncalled-for.
magurakurin
@Ella in New Mexico: It’s always like this. R. Maddow said last week, don’t be surprised if this thing gets called sooner than Tuesday. And then she explained how AP called all the unbound GOP delegates and got enough to call the race for Trump. This is all SOP. The Clinton campaign knew this might happen and they were trying to get the supers to hold back, but it’s just not possible. But it isn’t any sort of conspiracy or an attempt to influence the election. Because the truth is the outcome of the elections Tuesday are pretty much baked in…a lot of California has already voted…and the final result won’t change based on anything the AP or anyone else does or says today.
SiubhanDuinne
@Mike J:
You know that great Pete Souza photo of the little African-American boy looking up in awe at the President? All you see of POTUS is his beautiful dark hand touching the lad’s cheek. It gives me shivers every time I see it. Well, I want to see something equally genuine and moving during the Presidency of Hillary Rodham Clinton — some interaction with a young girl, something that really brings home the message that she, too, can aspire to the highest office in the country. And gods willing, President HRC will have as sensitive and gifted a photographer as Souza on her staff.
Ella in New Mexico
@D58826: No.
liberal
@Keith G: you’re assuming they’re going to allow HRC to appoint people to the USSC.
Elie
Bernie is so over… What is the next step — the gambit for a 74 year old not that smart, ugly, socialist fake democrat.
Bernie, go open a café in Burlington where folks can go to complain about how they have been screwed… “Bernies Screwdriver Diner”. He can sit in the back and bitch with all the diners while serving up bitter melon salad, regret stew, and yo mama apple pie — he can pose for pics that are framed and placed on the wall with the famous folks that visit. Jane can open a shop that sells fleece products ….
You know, its horrible to not get when you should leave a party and when none of your friends will ever want to be seen with you again. Poor Bernie… Maybe NOW someone will do a true expose on the Burlington College thing…
SarahT
@efgoldman: End of an era, and it;s about damn time !
Ella in New Mexico
@sigaba: Sorry, erroneous link-back to you, not Cacti who it was intended for.
sigaba
@Ella in New Mexico: You said *I* had no class. Or I didn’t realize there was much work to be done. Or something.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Ella in New Mexico: I’ll still be walking several blocks to the polls tomorrow. I’ll still cast my vote for the Democratic Presidental nomination and ALL THE OTHER RACES ON THE BALLOT.
Omnes Omnibus
@sigaba: Well obviously that is none of your business.
Schlemazel Khan
@Ella in New Mexico:
Damn I hate when I come in at the middle of the movie & miss all the exposition!
BillinGlendaleCA
@Elie: Alan Greenspan, aka The Cryptkeeper.
magurakurin
removed
Matt McIrvin
@Adam L Silverman:
Not according to Bernie Sanders, since his stated standard for putting it to bed is that Hillary needs to win such a huge supermajority of pledged delegates that he can’t theoretically win by flipping 100% of the supers.
SarahT
@cokane: HA.
magurakurin
@Ella in New Mexico: fair enough. please proceed. I’m childish. I like pie fights.
Renie
@SiubhanDuinne: I love that photo too! Souza is a great photographer and I love looking through the ones that get posted. He really brings out the warmth of the President, especially in the photos with children.
Ella in New Mexico
@magurakurin: yes, I should.
Uncle Ebeneezer
@BillinGlendaleCA: Yup. I’m still excited to vote for HRC and other Democrats tomorrow.
Origuy
@liberal: And you’re assuming that the Republicans will still control the Senate.
Elie
@BillinGlendaleCA:
LOL! Yes…. I wonder what he is up to and whether he can still interact… He must be “spinning in his chair” when Trump talked about US debt being bought pennies on the dollar (if he still knows where he is). Meanwhile, that zombie he is married to didn’t blink and eyelash — (not that she could anyway).
Major Major Major Major
@Ella in New Mexico: @magurakurin: What is this, a Hemingway story? Say what you mean.
Felanius Kootea
@Fair Economist: No it isn’t tinfoily. I mailed my ballot in already last week (I have permanent vote by mail status in CA) but my husband likes to vote in person and he was a little bit disappointed that California’s primary was so late after reading the AP news. Feels to him like CA didn’t count this time around. He’ll still go vote but I’m not sure whether others will.
SarahT
@BillinGlendaleCA: Exactly. Dems gotta learn to vote in primaries ANDfor the whole damn ballot – we surely know the GOP does.
MoxieM
Woot! #WellesleyProud! Also– can someone fill me in on whether and how John Kerry was equally raked over the coals for the 2002 Iraq vote? I don’t remember it, but I don’t feel like my memory is a good barometer (I supported him, etc.)
So besides the usual mud-flinging, is HRC getting more crapola over that specific vote, as people remember it. (Yes, I have checked the Google machine. People are better.) thanks.
Renie
@Keith G: Harry Reid ripped McConnell a good one today right from the Senate floor. Making him own Trump’s racist bs.
hovercraft
My mother is 74 years old and only became a citizen in 2010. She is very proud that her first vote was for a black man and her next will be for a woman. She says that she is proud to look at her grand children who are of African decent can look at Obama and Clinton and know that they too can achieve anything. She is proud to call herself an American. This is why she came here, because anything is possible. She is living the American Dream.
Gemina13
@aimai:
I’m going to see the moment my mother wanted desperately to see. She loved Hillary.
I don’t know what to think or say at this moment, except, Ma, I wish you could see this.
dmsilev
@Major Major Major Major:
No. Hillary needs 215 pledged delegates to reach 2026. There are 224 non-California pledged delegates up for grab tomorrow (and 475 in CA), so she’d need about 95% of the non-CA vote to manage that feat. Not going to happen, not even if Sanders concedes right now and also announces that he just skull-fucked a kitten as part of his ritualistic declaration of allegiance to Donald Trump.
Matt McIrvin
@MoxieM: He definitely got a lot of heat for it from Howard Dean–that was one of the central distinguishing points of Dean’s primary campaign. But Dean was out in February and he endorsed Kerry in March. It helped that Kerry was running against George W. Bush himself; also, keep in mind that the popularity of the war hadn’t bottomed out yet.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
Mnemosyne
There is a reason why people are a little annoyed with AP — voter turnout in California is abysmal. A ridiculously low number of voters in CA bother to show up at the polls. There are a lot of reasons for this (for one, my county of Los Angeles makes it almost impossible to vote early), but there is some justified fear that people will stay home tomorrow like they did in 2014.
AkaDad
Another blow to my white-male privelage.
Thanks, Hillary.
Betty Cracker
@Gemina13: Same here. Same here.
Libby's Person
@geg6: I’m with you. l’m going to get all choked up listening to the NJ and CA results (and the others), and celebrate like crazy tomorrow night. I’ll be celebrating the first woman candidate for president, and celebrating selection of a very strong candidate independent of gender.
Betty Cracker
@dmsilev: Poor kittens! They get violently molested so often in metaphor at Balloon Juice.
@hovercraft: She sounds awesome.
gogol's wife
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
I don’t know why you’re linking that song, but the least you could do is link Ida Lupino‘s version.
Geoduck
@Hunter Gathers: Now now, Bernie’s been a pain towards the end of all this, but that’s going a bit too far!
Renie
@Gemina13: I’ve been having the same thoughts tonite about my Mom. She died 2 years ago at 91 and was a diehard Democrat her entire life. She loved Hillary, I would have loved to see my Mom’s face when she heard the news.
Omnes Omnibus
@gogol’s wife: Golly.
gogol's wife
@Omnes Omnibus:
what do you mean by that?
geg6
Just had to gorge in some chocolate. Between Hilz clinching and the Pens giving me heart attacks, I needed that.
Omnes Omnibus
@gogol’s wife: Never heard that version before and wow…
gogol's wife
@Omnes Omnibus:
Isn’t it great? I luuurve it.
Matt McIrvin
@efgoldman:
My daughter is nine; a black man is the only President she remembers, outside of history books. (I told her about the 2008 race while it was happening, but she was a toddler and of course she has no recollection of that.)
But she’s feeling keenly the possibility of a woman as President. A couple of years ago she was talking about being the first woman President, and I told her I hoped and believed that there would be one long before she became eligible. (And, yes, I had a pretty good idea who it would be.)
Brachiator
@Corner Stone: I thought the point of this particular thread was to congratulate Hillary on a momentous achievement, which I heartily do!
And those for whom this moment is special because it may result in the election of our first woman president certainly deserve some space in which to celebrate, to shout for joy, to reflect on everything which has led up to this event.
Omnes Omnibus
@gogol’s wife: Awesome.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@gogol’s wife: I’m just crestfallen that we live in a country were the person with the most votes wins.
How did it come to that?
A few drinks and Sinatra always helps with the blues.
patroclus
@Matt McIrvin: Wow, you must be a psychic!
My Mom, who died last fall, would have enjoyed today very much. She was one of the few “professional” women in the late 40’s through the 80’s and saw and experienced quite a lot. She never called herself a feminist, but she was one. Many many things would make her VERY mad – often, she would be furious about Ralph Hall (our Congressman) and his anti-choice votes and I would write letters to him that she (happily) signed. I bet he got very tired of receiving vituperative letters from my Mom written by me. She was a Massachusetts Dem who moved to Texas and usually had to hold her tongue around many of her “friends.” But with me, she could be honest. I miss her especially tonight.
Renie
@Brachiator: Yes this is certainly an historical moment. One that generations after us will read about in history books. Truly amazing. First Barak Obama breaking the racial barrier now Hillary Clinton breaking the gender barrier aka the glass ceiling. It’s interesting how to my 21 yr old daughter its not such a big thing as it is to me. It may be cuz she was a Bernie supporter or as she explains she is use to women in authority positions and knew a woman would be President in her lifetime. For me, it’s an amazing moment.
Adam L Silverman
@efgoldman: Depends on the mood of the room. And the post.
Adam L Silverman
@Jeffro: he died two years ago:
http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/17/world/asia/japan-philippines-ww2-soldier-dies/
burnspbesq
I had a strange and highly entertaining dream last night.
In my dream, it was October 2018. I had taken a week off from work and gone to Vermont to work for the Democratic nominee who was challenging Bernie.
The best part? The Democratic nominee was MIchelle Obama.
Adam L Silverman
@Mnemosyne: Do you get to vote the idiot judge from that Stanford rape case off the bench? I understand he’s up for reelection/retention tomorrow.
burnspbesq
@Adam L Silverman:
Superior Court judges are elected at the county level. He sits in Santa Clara County. Mnem lives in Los Angeles County, and I live in Orange, so alas, that’s a vote that I don’t get to cast. In any event, every news story I’ve seen today has talked in terms of a recall, which is a process that must begin with a petition drive, so I don’t think he’s on the ballot tomorrow.
Ken
@gogol’s wife: My favorite version has always been the one The Abominable Dr. Phibes, but that’s because it’s played while Virginia North… well, does nothing much, but it’s Virginia North.
pseudonymous in nc
@Corner Stone: she already did, via the Twitters, not long after the campaign said “that’s very nice but we’re looking for every vote tomorrow.”
Aqualad08
Not to be a dick or anything, but the AP is reporting this without saying exactly which superdelegates have committed.
Not a very convincing piece of journalism.
Annie
@Iowa Old Lady:
Me either. I’m so glad I did.
burnspbesq
@Aqualad08:
If the names were disclosed, there is every chance that those folks would be doxxed and otherwise harassed by the BernieBros, I think it was a responsible move by AP.
Omnes Omnibus
@Aqualad08: Today, tomorrow… It will happen.
The Golux
@Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap:
That is our usual waffle recipe; they’re fabulous, though we usually thicken the batter with extra flour in the morning.
Just about everything in The Breakfast Book is outstanding.
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
As burns said, I am sadly far south of that district. I’m not sure we have any commenters in the Palo Alto area.
burnspbesq
This is priceless. Trump is getting that property tax abatement for people with incomes <$500k again this year. Clinton has to say something about this. Talk about your low-hanging fruit.
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/06/wtf-donald
Suffragete City elftx
Congrats to Hillary YAY ..checking out the waffles now!
seaboogie
@Hunter Gathers: Guess it’s time to replay the Clinton SNL sketch…
I am SO ready for the VP picks, the debates and Obama, Biden and Warren on the campaign trail on behalf of Clinton!
Elie
Well, though initially I was very cynical about the early AP report, I think on further deliberation that it was a good idea. It put the Bernie-ites back on their heels and sweeps them into the “but it isn’t over….” whining. Since she already has the number, they are left complaining about minutae and grievances and no one will care. Meanwhile, Hillary gets additional nails in his coffin tomorrow. The “script” Bernie had has to now be adjusted and he is just a loser complaining about the results he didn’t like. As long as she didn’t have the nomination, he could work the refs about whether he could overtake her. Now its over and he is left arguing about technicalities on the sidelines.
Omnes Omnibus
@seaboogie: Link no work. You fix.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@gogol’s wife: Richard Widmark was so cool.
Aqualad08
@Omnes Omnibus: Oh, I agree. I know the AP is under no obligation to not step on the moment, but they stepped on the moment without really disclosing the full rationale.
Also, too: they have her at 2,384. Did they count Hillary and Bill themselves? Because they would never had confirmed this to the AP.
chopper
@Mike J:
clearly a terrible campaigner.
Adam L Silverman
@burnspbesq: Thanks, wasn’t sure where all you all are. I intend to, tomorrow, unless someone beats me to it, to post both the transcript of the victim’s statement to the court and Ashley Banfield reading it during her show today. It needs as much exposure as possible.
I read somewhere else that he’s up for reelection or retention, whichever you all call it out there, tomorrow. That was aside from the recall petition that was started.
Aqualad08
@burnspbesq:
Meh, the names are already out there and that was already happening. Hell, it’s probably happening again right now.
eemom
I’m glad for the good news, but I haz a little confuzzled……isn’t this AP thing breaking on the night before CA and NJ gonna just give Bernout and his cult worshippers another massive round of whiny-ass bullshit ammo to fire as an excuse to not STFU and GTFO after tomorrow?
Keith G
@liberal:
I assume that HRC will win and that the Senate will be in play. I also assume that the Trump cluster-fuck might be historically large, and in that case the Senate will flip. Democrats need to net just four seats to win control of the Senate if Hillary Clinton wins the presidency (assuming a VP tie breaker). I bet the margin will be larger than 4.
Then the question becomes, will the Democrats in the Senate put limits on filibustering nominees for the federal bench, especially the SCOTUS? I bet that they will. How much? I do not know.
Applejinx
I’m not surprised that Hillary is displeased with the AP and tweeted ‘stop that, I have primaries to win!’. She knows how this ought to go, and it just goes to show you that even a Hillary Clinton can’t get everything she wants. AP just could not wait, even when not waiting does Hillary some harm (not in terms of winning, but in terms of screwing up the process). That’s NOT on Hil, that is the press being asshats.
But they are right, you know. Hillary won, and she will win this Fall too. And I will be voting for her and have no problem with that.
…provided I get good at glancing casually over SOME of the posters here, without reading too closely ;P some of you guys are so bitter and vengeful! You should be more like your candidate. Enough about those posters. I don’t want to be seeing them when I think about this day.
I want to remember the joy.
The joy and pride of so many of you, is a beautiful and sincere thing. It’s well earned: nobody can say this was easy or set up in advance. But it was time, and you prevailed, and I say: be joyful. It makes me happy to see that joy because it reminds me why we do this.
Future President Hillary Clinton also tweeted happy Ramadan wishes to Muslims here and elsewhere, defiant of anyone who would suggest that’s not an okay thing to do. And I was proud to see it.
Tuesday may be anticlimactic, but somehow I doubt that ;)
Now let’s go and change our world, and be a beacon to THE world.
-jinx
burnspbesq
@eemom:
You see some of the same crap I see on FB. Think they need an excuse?
Keith G
@eemom: It will, but I bet that after a bit of time, tempers will cool and the right decisions will prevail.
tastytone
Lots of Mom stuff tonight! It’s beautiful.
A veteran of the ERA wars, my late mother would often become exasperated and say, “you don’t understand–with women there’s always a line you can’t cross. You can be the smartest, boldest, and most talented and it does. not. matter.” I feel her very strongly today. With a little luck, I’ll feel her in November as well; and (for at least her first four years) my unborn daughter won’t know anything BUT a female POTUS. Not to be dramatic, but I agree…it is indeed a big fucking deal.
chopper
@Ella in New Mexico:
ah, bernie’s campaign slogan.
BillinGlendaleCA
@burnspbesq: If it’s based on taxable income, he probably has none.
LanceThruster
It will be decided at the Democratic National convention.
It ain’t over yet, regardless of the many claims otherwise.
burnspbesq
@BillinGlendaleCA:
If nothing else, it’s a virtual certainty that Trump pays AMT and the Obamacare tax.
Omnes Omnibus
@LanceThruster: Please lay out a scenario where Sanders ends up as the nominee.
Ripley
@Ken: Ditto on the Virginia North crush. She surely winds up my clockwork orchestra, ahem.
trollhattan
If 6/6 can share D-Day with something else that’s positive, uplifting and historic, then I think the calendar can accommodate it. Took my 14 y.o. to hear Hillary speak yesterday and she was genuinely excited, not just about the experience but also what the secretary had to say. Imagine, a teenager actually listening to an adult speak. About politics! But honestly, not about politics but about people and the country and how we can work together to set goals and make them happen. My hook was simple, “Let’s go see the next president of the United States.” She could fill in the rest.
burnspbesq
@LanceThruster:
That’s what we lawyers call a hyper-technical reading of the situation. The reality is that it’s been over since March.
If you need more time to grieve, that’s fine, but denying the obvious doesn’t change it.
tastytone
@Omnes Omnibus:
I would be hesitant to ask that of someone with a porn name like “Lance Thruster”.
Raven Onthill
Well, that’s 53 million Americans who just found their votes won’t count.
Congratulations to Hillary Clinton and her supporters!
Omnes Omnibus
@Raven Onthill: That is bullshit and you are smart enough to know it.
burnspbesq
@Raven Onthill:
Speak for yourself. I get to vote on Boxer’s successor tomorrow. That’s enough reason to show up.
ETA: Speaking of which, Loretta apparently played the geography card over the weekend, whining about the Guv and both Senators being from the Bay Area. Weak.
Keith G
@tastytone: Lance is probably imagining a passionate, wide open convention.
trollhattan
@Raven Onthill:
New to the primary process?
Tripod
@burnspbesq:
This was an intervention to stop Jane, Bernie, Jeff Weaver and Tad Devine from self-immolating on a daily basis.
The most likely culprits are Bernie SDs slinking away, and his Senate colleagues giving him a parting shot to the balls.
seaboogie
@Omnes Omnibus: Thanks for the heads up, OO – giving it another shot..
..
And this one seems to work!
burnspbesq
The media will probably get all breathless about the Veepstakes beginning Wednesday. Not looking forward to that.
Raven Onthill
@trollhattan: very old to it, actually.
Omnes Omnibus
@seaboogie: Hil’s Trump impression was really good.
trollhattan
@Raven Onthill:
In case it helps, in 2014 the California mail-in ballots were 69% for the primary and 61% for the general. Given the percentage goes up every election cycle, that means over 70% of the votes in this primary are already mailed and folks will still vote tomorrow. I’m just fine with that.
burnspbesq
Good night, all.
trollhattan
@Omnes Omnibus:
Several of the warm-up speakers at yesterday’s Clinton rally used “he who must not be named” for Trump. Loved it.
Omnes Omnibus
@LanceThruster: Just a plausible scenario…. I’ll accept alien invasions, but not asteroids.
Miss Bianca
Tired. had our county Democrats’ “friendship dinner” tonight. Made some great connections. And now this news. So happy.
Omnes Omnibus
@Raven Onthill: Then get over yourself.
Omnes Omnibus
@Miss Bianca: Tired or shit-faced?
Raven Onthill
I regret the snarky remark. But what a poor start to bringing the party together! No thanks, CNN.
magurakurin
@Applejinx: you’re A-okay, kiddo.
Miss Bianca
@Omnes Omnibus: Mellow with juice from the vine, but not quite “shit-faced”, you pleasant gentleman. : )
But quite tired as well, yes.
And a bit overwhelmed – I’ve just found myself drafted to work on the campaign for the Dem candidate for state house district 60.
Omnes Omnibus
@Miss Bianca: Well linked. Get some sleep and get to work.
ETA: Damn the edit time.
Miss Bianca
@Omnes Omnibus: Aye aye, sir.
andy
@maryQ: I’ve felt for some time that it should be a socially normative thing for young women under the age of 30 to only have same sex relationships.
Cookie monster
@Mnemosyne: I’m one county over. Idiot judge is on ballot tomorrow but had no challengers, so guaranteed to win.
AnotherBruce
@dmsilev: Yes, New Jersey was going to put her over the top counting Super Delegates before the AP announced today. California will put her over the top with pledged delegates. Which is important. It gives the Bernie Bunch one less thing to hang their hat on.
mike in dc
@trollhattan:
He Who Walks Behind The Rows is also suitable.
mike in dc
100 years ago, a woman in this country wouldn’t even be allowed to vote. That’s some frickin’ perspective.
AxelFoley
@A Ghost To Most:
I hate when people do this. Why can’t you just accept the man at his word that he’s a Christian? You’re no better than the folks who call him a Muslim.
Betty Cracker
@Applejinx: Nicely and graciously said.
Jack the Second
@Raven Onthill: The prodigal son, returning home, was greeted with a feast. The father did not, however, go looking for him.
Applejinx
@magurakurin: Heh ;)
Always was, gurkin, always was. I’m hoping to find more like me to bring along into November, and I won’t do it by hatin’.
:)
Uncle Cosmo
@Omnes Omnibus: Let’s just hope the BS campaign doesn’t grumble about the nomination being stollen. ;^D She won it fair& (Belgian waffle) square!
John W.
Betty,
My wife teared up. I did not though I had a funny feeling in my chest.
It will be a greater moment when Hill is elected President of the United States!
jw
jw
John W.
@A Ghost To Most: What bid’ness is that of anyone with any other person’s choice of belief, or non belief (or fence-sitters like me think that the jury’s still out)?
Nosey Parker.
jw
John W.
@Raven Onthill: Sure those votes counted! After all, one doesn’t know who won ’till the votes are counted.
jw