Late Night Cranky Open Thread: Bernie Sanders Finds Bernie Sanders A Man of Many Talents

I can call spirits from the vasty deep. —
Why, so can I, and so can any man; but will they come, when you do call for them?

Public figures are commonly warned against believing their own press releases. Senator Sanders seems to have gone beyond mere belief, to discover in the Bernie Sanders described by his supporters one hell of an amazing fella, capable of feats no mortal politician could claim. He will quell the rebellious Repubs by the might of his loyalist mill-yuns, and accomplish historic progress by the sheer genius of his executive orders. From the Rolling Stone interview:

To put it in terms that you were talking about tonight at the rally, I think the critique is not blaming Bernie Sanders for thinking too big, but critiquing Bernie Sanders for sweeping the “unpleasant truths” of our political system right now – the way it ties everything up in knots – “under the rug.” Many people say you’re right as rain on the policy and the objectives, but “Boy, I just don’t think he can do it.”
Yes …

So how do you do it? What are the specifics that allow you to—

What are the specifics about how I, personally, all by myself, do what nobody in American history has done? And I’m being criticized? Why don’t you do it? Why doesn’t the editor of Rolling Stone do it? Look. You know. With all due respect, that’s an absurd question.

Hopefully, we will end up winning the nomination and winning the general election. If we don’t do that, which is certainly a possibility, we will have accomplished an enormous amount. Could we have done better? Could I do better? Of course. I’m not quite sure what the—

The question is: Assuming you’re president and you’re dealing with a Congress that looks like the one we have today…
Let me just comment on that. If I am elected president, the odds of the Senate remaining Republican would be minimal. You’d have very large turnout helping Democrats up and down the line.

But you’d still likely face Paul Ryan as your negotiating partner. And I’m trying to figure out how you get something like public-college-for-all passed with Paul Ryan as your counterpart. Given that you just said today that they won’t play ball.
To answer that question successfully requires us to think outside of a zero-sum game. You’re saying to me, and it’s a fair question: “Bernie, if you sit down with Paul Ryan and say, ‘Paul, I want a tax on Wall Street speculation to make public colleges and universities tuition-free and to lower student debt,’ the likelihood is that Paul won’t say, ‘Hey, Bernie, why didn’t I think of that? Fantastic idea! Let’s go forward together.'” So what’s the strategy? The strategy – which is unprecedented, and this is where we’re talking about thinking outside the box – is to have a president who actually, vigorously goes around the country and rallies the American people, who are in favor of this idea. This is not some sort of fringe idea. The American people want it. And [the president] rallies the American people and makes it clear that people in the Republican Party – or Democratic Party – who are not sympathetic will pay a political price. That changes the dynamics.

Everything that I campaign on – they’re not fringe ideas. They’re not radical ideas. They’re ideas that the American people support. What we’ve got to do now is close the gap that currently exists between the American people over here [gestures to one side of the table], who have needs and goals and desires, and a Congress [gestures to other side], which in almost every instance is ignoring what the American people want…

Because, of course, we have no recent Democratic presidents — for example, the man now occupying that position — who were willing or able to “actually, vigorously go around the country and rally the American people, who are in favor of this idea.” Only a superior political intellect like Bernie Sanders could have imagined so powerful and lambent a tactic! One part Bully Pulpit, two parts Green Lantern…

Matt Yglesias, at Vox, has convinced himself that “Bernie Sanders will drop out and endorse Hillary Clinton soon”…

… While Sanders’s hypothetical campaign would be premised on the idea of winning superdelegates over to his side, the reality is that after California and New Jersey vote, the opposite is going to happen… [T]he small number of Sanders supporters who are also elected officials — most important among them Reps. Keith Ellison and Raúl Grijalva and Sen. Jeff Merkley — will abandon him on the same grounds. They’ll say the campaign accomplished a lot and proved people-powered politics is the wave of the future, but Clinton won fair and square and now it’s time to unite for a higher minimum wage, making the rich pay their fair share, comprehensive immigration reform, and all the rest.

At the same time as the more establishment-oriented wing of the Sanders movement abandons him in favor of Clinton, the more radical wing will also abandon him. Sanders’s core voting base in the primary has come from young people who probably didn’t participate in the 2000 campaign. But several of Sanders’s more prominent surrogates — people like Cornel West and Susan Sarandon — are longtime critics of the Democratic Party who backed Ralph Nader back then…

At the end of the day, Sanders is a Democrat
Decades ago, when America’s political parties were less polarized and when Sanders was more invested in anti-anti-communism as a foreign policy, Sanders was truly a political independent. He won a tough third-party campaign to be elected mayor of Burlington, and he tangled with Democrats on the city council early in his term…

But once in Congress, Sanders settled into a comfortable modus vivendi with the formal Democratic Party. He caucused with the Democrats for the purpose of obtaining committee seats and seniority, and Democrats stopped running candidates against him. In 2006, when a Senate seat opened up in Vermont, the party’s national leaders — everyone from Nancy Pelosi to Chuck Schumer — cleared the field for him so he could win the Democratic nomination unopposed. Having won it, he then officially declined it in order to run as an independent in a race with no Democratic nominee…

I read this history and see an opposite future: Sanders was happy to accept all the benefits of being a Democrat, and even to cast his very precious extremely independent vote with that less-elite gang, as long as he wasn’t required to lower himself to the grubby moil of vote-trading and donor-coddling. But if the benighted Establishment Democrats are not willing, at this shining moment, to acknowledge his singularity and step aside for his nomination… he will NOT BE IGNORED.

Frankly — and I hope he makes a liar out of me — at this moment, I’m predicting a future for Senator Sanders as the Joe Lieberman of a new generation. Come 2019, it wouldn’t surprise me to see him on Pete Peterson’s payroll, in the latest incarnation of #NoLabels “sensible centrism”, decrying the coarse anti-American partisanship of the party in power… especially if (goddess please make it so) that should be the Democratic party.

Supplementary sniping below the fold…






308 replies
  1. 1
    NotMax says:

    Open Thread?

    Looking ahead to the weekend on TCM –

    Five Graves to Cairo – Friday, June 3 at 10 p.m. – early, not quite jelled effort from Billy Wilder as director, made in the midst of WW2 and showing Nazis as more three-dimensional characters than in other films of the period, with Erich von Stroheim as Rommel.

    For comedic escapism, on Sunday at 6 p.m. is My Favorite Year.

  2. 2
    rikyrah says:

    People say that he will do the right thing and endorse Hillary.
    We shall see. 😬

  3. 3

    I am no Bernie fan and I think he should bow out, the sooner the better. But even I doubt that he will become an Austerity monger for Peterson.

  4. 4
    gf120581 says:

    I recall Sanders saying once that his plan for breaking Senate gridlock is to bring a million people to demonstrate outside Mitch McConnell’s office or something.

    Unless those million people are from KY, McConnell isn’t going to give a fuck. He’ll ignore it or worse, fund raise off it.

    But this is typical Sanders. Organization? Voter registration? Electing other candidates? Nope, it’s all just speeches and rallies for him. He’d rather hold parties than do the serious grunt work of elections.

  5. 5
    benw says:

    I would prefer not to.

  6. 6

    @rikyrah: if he does so, it will be luke warm and half hearted.

  7. 7
    gf120581 says:

    @rikyrah: At this point, I doubt it even matters. Come this time next week, she’ll be the nominee, Obama will come off the sidelines, Warren will endorse her, and Sanders will be this pouting old crank that nobody pays attention to. He’s pretty much shot himself in the foot with his actions lately as far as being relevant in the future.

    And now he’s talking about holding “events” over the next month to woo the SDs? Uh huh. My guess is the few SDs with him will start abandoning him if he goes down that route (Merkley for one has already said no dice to any convention antics).

  8. 8
    msdc says:

    I can’t see Sanders as a Lieberman/Pete Peterson/No Labels type centrist. Not in a million years.

    Now, a Nader-like grouch kvetching from the sidelines at a party and an electorate that have moved past him…

  9. 9
    jl says:

    I listened to Barney Frank and Barbara Boxer interviews, prepared to be outraged at their Bernie bashing. But they were far more insightful and charitable than this stuff. Frank thinks Sanders will get on board for the election and do a lot of good. I am hopeful Frank will be proven correct.

  10. 10
    rikyrah says:

    Just going to remind folks that 375,000 of our fellow citizens now have access to health care in Louisiana. ,Elections have consequences. And, this was accomplished by the imperfect Obamacare. Ask those fellow citizens if they are willing to blow up Obamacare for the purity pony promise of single payer. And, no, both parties are NOT the same.

  11. 11
    Betty Cracker says:

    It’s possible to make sense of the thought experiment-trap Sanders fell into if you look at it just right: When he launched his campaign, he never figured he’d win in a million years. He just wanted to get his issues front and center. At that point, it made a sort of sense to say that if he was elected, the old order would be overthrown. Sanders elected? That was crazy talk!

    Now, it’s not so crazy. He won’t win the nomination, of course. But he came a lot closer than anyone dreamed, including himself, I’m convinced of it. So he hasn’t really thought through the whole governing thing. I’m sure it’s all quite surreal. I just hope he snaps the fuck out of it soon — California, do your thing…

  12. 12
    dmsilev says:

    Someone mentioned a few days ago a test for the Sanders theory of governance. He should use his Power Of Huge Rallies to convince Senate Republicans to hold hearings on a certain stalled Supreme Court nominee. Not to confirm him, but just to open hearings. Manage that test, Bernie, and I’ll grant your theory some credence.

  13. 13
    hovercraft says:

    This from Frank Rich is interesting.

    In an election cycle that has brought unending surprises, let it be said that one time-honored tradition has been upheld: the Republican presidential contenders’ quadrennial tug-of-war to seize the mantle of Ronald Reagan. John Kasich, gesturing toward the Air Force One on display at the Reagan-library debate, said, “I think I actually flew on this plane with Ronald Reagan when I was a congressman.” Rand Paul claimed to have met Reagan as a child; Ben Carson said he switched parties because of Reagan; Chris Christie said he cast his first vote for Reagan; Ted Cruz cheered Reagan for having defeated Soviet Communism and vowed, for nonsensical good measure, to “do the same thing.” And then there was Donald Trump, never one to be outdone by the nobodies in any competition. “I helped him,” he said of Reagan on NBC last fall. “I knew him. He liked me and I liked him.”

    The Reagan archives show no indication that the two men had anything more than a receiving-line acquaintanceship; Trump doesn’t appear in the president’s voluminous diaries. But of all the empty boasts that have marked Trump’s successful pursuit of the Republican nomination, his affinity to Reagan may have the most validity and the most pertinence to 2016. To understand how Trump has advanced to where he is now, and why he has been underestimated at almost every step, and why he has a shot at vanquishing Hillary Clinton in November, few road maps are more illuminating than Reagan’s unlikely path to the White House. One is almost tempted to say that Trump has been studying the Reagan playbook — but to do so would be to suggest that he actually might have read a book, another Trumpian claim for which there is scant evidence.

    Before the fierce defenders of the Reagan faith collapse into seizures at the bracketing of their hero with the crudest and most vacuous presidential candidate in human memory, let me stipulate that I am not talking about Reagan the president in drawing this parallel, or about Reagan the man. I am talking about Reagan the candidate, the canny politician who, after a dozen years of failed efforts attended by nonstop ridicule, ended up leading the 1980 GOP ticket at the same age Trump is now (69) and who, like his present-day counterpart, was best known to much of the electorate up until then as a B-list show-business personality.

    It’s true that Reagan, unlike Trump, did hold public office before seeking the presidency (though he’d been out of government for six years when he won). But Trump would no doubt argue that his executive experience atop the august Trump Organization more than compensates for Reagan’s two terms in Sacramento. (Trump would also argue, courtesy of Arnold Schwarzenegger, that serving as governor of California is merely a bush-league audition for the far greater responsibilities of hosting Celebrity Apprentice.) It’s also true that Reagan forged a (fairly) consistent ideology to address late-20th-century issues that are no longer extant: the Cold War, a federal government that feasted on a top income-tax bracket of 70 percent, and runaway inflation. Trump has no core conviction beyond gratifying his own bottomless ego.

    Go read it at NY Magazine. Someone grab the fainting couch.

  14. 14
  15. 15

    @Betty Cracker: You are still giving Sanders the benefit of doubt? After all his antics?

    BTW Happy Anniversary, how was your trip?

  16. 16
    Mary G says:

    I think the same thing that happened to the Mittbot has happened to Bernie. Standing in front of huge adoring crowds has convinced him that everyone else in America feels the same way. In fact we are sitting on the sidelines saying “look at the idiots still going to rallies for the no-hoper.”

  17. 17
    SarahT says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: Agree. The DNC needs to stop catering to him ASAP: Cornell West ? Give me a fucking break. What, the “YOU LIE” dude wasn’t available ? And wanting input on Hillary’s VP selection ? Sure, Bernie, go ahead and name Chelsea’s second kid while you’re at it. My god what an asshole he’s turned out to be.

  18. 18
    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet says:

    @gf120581: Indeed.

    Bernie gave the same stump speech about eleventy billion times since last February/April. He has a set of talking points that he wants to use and it takes something yuuge to make him change. Nothing’s going to shake his view that all it takes is millions of people coming to rallys and (missing step 2) and then all the liberal policies that have been locked in amber since 1968 will suddenly be freed and we’ll be on our way to a democratic socialist paradise.

    My feeling is that he’s going to endorse Hillary and maybe even give a good speech at the convention talking about the need for party unity. But I fear that he’s going to do little beyond that. He hasn’t exactly been campaigning for other liberal candidates that would help him (he’s endorsed, what, 4 other candidates?). I think Hillary and Barack will help him retire his campaign debt (which I expect will be substantial), but I don’t know how much Bernie will do to help.

    He’s an old man and may need to take a few months off, also too.

    We’ll see.

    Cheers,
    Scott.
    (Who thinks that Bernie served a noble purpose in making Hillary fight for the nomination, and in showing yet again that the way to win isn’t being the leftiest lefty in American politics right now. Incremental progress…)

  19. 19
    Mnemosyne says:

    @jl:

    I think Bernie needs to take a nice vacation, relax for a bit, and face reality. Hawaii is always nice, and if you go to one of the smaller islands, it’s harder for the press to follow you.

  20. 20
    jl says:

    Honest question: is there a danger of a little echo chamber with the Bernie bashers and bitters? Anyone actually listen to what he is saying or just copying the bitterest pundit they can find?

    I heard a news report on Sanders’ recent days on the CA campaign trail that said Hillary Clinton has disappeared from his stump speeches and he is bashing GOP and Trump. And, aside from trade, Obama’s policies today sounded just as much Sanders and HRC. Obama pushing HRC to the left?

    IF Sanders gets on board and gets out some votes, who cares if the old grouch has destroyed his chance of real influence in the Democratic Party? He’ll do just fine in Democratic majority Senate.

  21. 21
    Mnemosyne says:

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:

    He’s an old man and may need to take a few months off, also too.

    That’s weird. I just said a similar thing in response to jl and my post vanished into the ether. Maybe FYWP hates Hawaii?

  22. 22
    gf120581 says:

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: Truthfully, he’s not even needed. Warren is a far more effective surrogate than he could ever hope to be (especially since Warren has shown the ability to goad Trump into acting out).

    I like using this comparison. If political parties are a team, Sanders is the guy who stands off to the side, does no work, but complains about the job everyone else is doing.

  23. 23
    Betty Cracker says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: No, I’m not giving him the benefit of the doubt, just speculating about his thought process. I hope he gets a grip, but it could go either way.

    Still on my trip — thanks! Excellent day of bird-watching today.

  24. 24
    Mnemosyne says:

    @jl:

    If Sanders climbs onto the Hillary bandwagon as wholeheartedly as Hillary climbed onto Obama’s after she lost in 2008, I think most people will let bygones be bygones. If he seems to still be trying to play it both ways and carp from the sidelines, that would be a bigger issue.

  25. 25
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @hovercraft:

    This from Frank Rich is interesting.

    Words seldom seen in such close proximity to each other.

  26. 26
  27. 27
    amk says:

    clay bennett has already nailed it.

  28. 28
    dmsilev says:

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:

    My feeling is that he’s going to endorse Hillary and maybe even give a good speech at the convention talking about the need for party unity.

    If he does that, it should be enough. The fear is that he won’t concede either after Tuesday or after the DC primary on the 14th and that whatever support he has left by the end of July is enough to raise a ruckus at the convention. I think he’ll concede, but I confess I’m not completely sure.

  29. 29
    trollhattan says:

    @Betty Cracker:
    Funnily enough, Donny’s campaign launched against similar odds. Must be something in the water this year.

  30. 30
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Jane is back to making the teevee rounds, after a few weeks off. I caught her on Andrea Mitchell/MSNBC today; someone else, several threads down, mentioned seeing her on CNN. I was struck, during her interview with Mrs Greenspan, that during a discussion of possible VP picks, Jane said (paraphrase, but close) “We hope Secretary Clinton will choose a progressive as a running mate.” It seemed like a minute or two (was actually probably not more than 10-15 seconds) before Jane remembered her talking points and hastily reframed it as “IF Secretary Clinton is the nominee….”

    Quite a telling moment, I thought.

  31. 31
    Jay C says:

    @hovercraft:

    Another big difference between Reagan and Trump: old Ronnie was a thorough Party stalwart. Once he became a Republican, he stayed a good one. He cheerfully fronted for his sugar-daddies in the CA GOP, used (and was used by) the Party like a good solid politico; even as a Party “rebel”, he still worked within the framework of the system, and, as President, made sure his, and the GOP’s prestige were a self-reinforcing dynamic.

    Donald Trump, on the other hand, seems to have little but contempt for the “regular” Party (scarcely undeserved, btw): his campaign is pure ego-driven personality cult.

  32. 32
    trollhattan says:

    @amk:
    Funny. Pro tip: never use that name around Seattle sports fans.

  33. 33
    RK says:

    I think a lot of hate for Bernie comes from edginess about Clinton’s candidacy, high unfavorables and cognitive dissonance–having to confront that perhaps one isn’t as progressive as they’d like to think.

  34. 34
    Reggie Mantle says:

    @jl:

    Honest question: is there a danger of a little echo chamber with the Bernie bashers and bitters?

    Honest answer: it’s already happened.

  35. 35
    jl says:

    @Betty Cracker: California will very probably do its thing by giving HRC a victory. I also heard a news report that, unlike other states, CA independents are breaking strongly for Clinton.
    Sanders probably misjudged what kind of progressive CA voters like.

    I may be wrong, but I think Sanders is winding it down as best he can figure out in order to keep his supporters enthusiastic to vote in November (Edit, that is not saying his judgment is very good, though). I think his campaign will be finished after next Tuesday, and then we will see.

  36. 36
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @benw:

    I would prefer not to.

    benwartleby the scrivener :-)

  37. 37
    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet says:

    @gf120581: I don’t think we can count our chickens in the Senate yet. Let’s remember – he was one of the 60 who got Obamacare passed.

    Maybe he’ll decide not to run in 2018 – that’s fine. But until then (unless Hillary runs the tables and we get all 69 votes in the Senate (which is probably only possible if all of the Teabaggers lose)), then he’s a needed vote.

    He’s done some annoying things this campaign, but let’s remember he’s a politician. He wants to stay in office, and he wants to have power. That means getting along to some extent. He’s not going to become a Nader and throw away his chance to really have an impact in the Senate.

    My $0.02.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  38. 38
    danielx says:

    At the end of the day, Sanders is a Democrat

    At the end of the day, Sanders is a douche rocket. He’s made his mark and moved the Democratic party to the left, but anyone who can’t avoid that whole pesky math business must conclude that Bernie is never going to be president. Unless you really go for that whole ‘clap louder’ thing, which I detested from Bushies and like even less now. His campaign has become an exercise in egotism at this point, and – forgive me – one of those types of campaigns at a time is all I can stand.

  39. 39
    Joel says:

    @amk: and here I was thinking you were talking about the NBA franchise owner.

  40. 40
    Kay says:

    I watched Obama’s Elkhart town hall. I admire him for doing it but boy, it’s tough to rebut straight-up lies. “Tens of thousands of Syrian refugees” taking money from homeless veterans. Oh, God. You don’t know where to start with that mess.

  41. 41
    Reggie Mantle says:

    @RK:

    I think a lot of hate for Bernie comes from edginess about Clinton’s candidacy, high unfavorables and having to confront that perhaps one isn’t as progressive as they’d like to think.

    I think you hit the nail on the head. Their level of denial requires that they go after any nonbelievers or even lukewarm ones with every torch and pitchfork in the barn.

  42. 42
    Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap says:

    @Kay: Que ?

  43. 43
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: I think the saddest thing was last weekend in San Francisco Oakland where a whole bunch of his white, middle class supporters were videoed singing We Shall Overcome in regard to him taking the nomination. The obliviousness was amazing.

  44. 44
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Excellent day of bird-watching today.

    I hope there will be pictures.

    I like pictures.

  45. 45
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Mnemosyne: Its not in moderation. I just checked.

  46. 46
    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Ouch.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  47. 47
    Cacti says:

    @Reggie Mantle:

    I think you hit the nail on the head. Their level of denial requires that they go after any nonbelievers or even lukewarm ones with every torch and pitchfork in the barn.

    It’s always good for LoLs when Bernfeelers complain about anyone going after non-believers with torches and pitchforks:

    John Lewis
    Dolores Huerta
    Barbara Boxer
    Roberta Lange
    Elizabeth Warren
    Jerry Brown
    Cecile Richards
    Planned Parenthood
    NARAL
    Human Rights Campaign
    Southern Democrats

    etc.

  48. 48
    Miss Bianca says:

    @gf120581: May I just say, “from your mouth to God’s ear”?

    Please, God, if ever I ascend to any sort of position of power again, do *not* let me buy my own hype. That is the source of more perilous grief than anything I can think of.

  49. 49
  50. 50
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: Self awareness, we do not has it!

  51. 51
    Cacti says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I think the saddest thing was last weekend in San Francisco where a whole bunch of his white, middle class supporters were videoed singing We Shall Overcome in regard to him taking the nomination. The obliviousness was amazing.

    A real mystery why black voters never really warmed up to the “revolution”.

  52. 52
    Reggie Mantle says:

    @shomi:

    WRONG ON ALL COUNTS. Thanks for playing. Clearly feeling the Bern has given you brain damage.

    And there you have it. Even someone who’s clearly going to vote for Hillary is suspect of he doesn’t exhibit the proper level of hate for Sanders.

    You’ve already begun turning on each other.

  53. 53
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Adam L Silverman: you…*saw*…this?

    This could have happened among a significant cohort of folks I know and love – or loved, this has been a harsh year – here in CO.

  54. 54
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Cacti: I’ve asked these four teenagers in a van and their great dane to look into it for us.

  55. 55
    dmsilev says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Seriously? That happened?

    Couldn’t the Sanders campaign have rolled out Cornel West to explain why that was stupid at best?

  56. 56
    Mnemosyne says:

    @RK:

    Or, y’know, that Trump is the neofascist candidate that David Neiwart has been predicting for years and yet some Bernie or Busters are too blind to see it.

  57. 57
    Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap says:

    @Reggie Mantle: That’s some IMAX size projection. Here’s a pancake recipe:

    Basic Buttermilk Pancakes

    (4 servings)

    • 1 cup all-purpose flour
    • 1 Tablespoon sugar
    • 1 teaspoon baking powder
    • 1/4 teaspoon baking soda
    • 1/4 teaspoon salt
    • 1 beaten egg
    • 1 cup buttermilk
    • 2 Tablespoons vegetable or canola oil
    How To Make Basic Buttermilk Pancakes

    In a large bowl, mix together the flour, sugar, baking powder, baking soda and salt.

    In a medium bowl, beat the egg until the whites and yolk are combined. Add the buttermilk and oil and stir to combine.

    Add the wet ingredients to the dry ingredients and whisk to combine. (Try not to over-mix. 5 seconds should do the job. It’s okay if there are a few lumps.) For best results, let the batter rest 10 minutes before making pancakes.

    Place a griddle or large frying pan over medium heat. Spray with cooking spray (you can also use a scant amount of butter).

    Dollop the batter in 1/4 cup amounts per pancake. When the tops are covered with small bursting bubbles, flip the pancakes and cook the other sides to golden brown.

    This recipe makes eight 5-inch pancakes.

  58. 58
    Miss Bianca says:

    @rikyrah: I don’t believe it. I’m sorry. I wish I did. But I don’t trust that man farther than I could throw a cheesecake under water.

  59. 59
    chopper says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    If Sanders climbs onto the Hillary bandwagon as wholeheartedly as Hillary climbed onto Obama’s after she lost in 2008

    st. bernard the pure? not bloody likely.

  60. 60
    SarahT says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Oy gevalt – that was truly cringeworthy.

  61. 61
    Culture of Truth says:

    I don’t think so. Sanders may stew for a little while, especially he since he won’t be angling for Vice President or even a cabinet position. But unlike Lieberman, he’s a progressive, a committed to his beliefs. And he despises Donald Trump. He’ll endorse Clinton and urge his supporters to stop Trump, which he’s already doing.

  62. 62
    geg6 says:

    @jl:

    You really are a nice guy and you go out of your way to cut Bernie breaks, however undeserved they may be. Just want to say chow much I admire your ability to always see the good. It’s not my way (I’ve been a cynic since the womb, I think), but I do wish I wasn’t sometimes.

  63. 63
    Kay says:

    @Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap:

    Oh, one of the questions bothered me. Why is Obama paying for tens of thousands of Syrian refugees when there are homeless vets with children? I feel like it came straight from Trump. It’s wrong, for one thing, and it makes no sense, for another. 2500 Syrian refugees (not ‘tens of thousands’) are not a budget trade-off for veterans housing. 2500 is nothing for a country this size and they’re all sponsored by religious orgs anyway.

    I’m really starting to loathe Trump. He makes everything worse. You just hear him in some of these people.

  64. 64
    dmsilev says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    Memento mori (“remember that you have to die”)[2] is a Latin expression, originating from a practice common in Ancient Rome; as a general came back victorious from a battle, and during his parade (“Triumph”) received compliments and honors from the crowd of citizens, he ran the risk of falling victim to haughtiness and delusions of grandeur; to avoid it, a slave stationed behind him would say “Respice post te. Hominem te memento” ( “Look after you [to the time after your death] and remember you’re [only] a man.”).

  65. 65
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Miss Bianca: @dmsilev: https://twitter.com/Matthew_Artz/status/737424913867243520

    And I sit corrected. It was Oakland, which just makes it worse.

  66. 66
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    No, it straight-up went “kablooey” and vanished forever. I must have had a forbidden word in there somewhere, but damned if I know what it was.

  67. 67

    @Kay: I think that guy was auditioning to be this cycle’s Joe the Plumber. I don’t think he would have been so insolent to a white President. These 8 years have been an eye opening experience.

  68. 68
  69. 69
  70. 70
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @dmsilev: Its kind of his thing:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV4L_OHGpyo

    Who knew?

  71. 71
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    This is not some sort of fringe idea. The American people want it. And [the president] rallies the American people and makes it clear that people in the Republican Party – or Democratic Party – who are not sympathetic will pay a political price.

    that’s why all those Dem Senate candidates are campaigning on it and winning!

  72. 72
    northquirk says:

    I’m a wicked long-time lurker (started following BJ ~the 2008 primary circus) and a local government employee. & I agree with so much of what y’all are saying.

    It literally boggles my mind that a man who’s been in elected office damn near my entire life can run for POTUS (!) thinking that the policy changes he wants to enact will happen by magic unity protests or something. Politics is NOT pop culture. We can’t meme our way into better policy, especially not at a federal level.

    /pounds head on table and resumes lurking

  73. 73
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Oakland makes it worse, but more understandable. Race relations in Oakland are super fucked up, to say the least.

  74. 74
    geg6 says:

    @RK:

    Who’s edgy? I’m not. Haven’t been for a second since I made up my own mind back in Feb/March. Even the college kids I work with know it’s Hilz or bust.

  75. 75
    Miss Bianca says:

    @dmsilev: ah…I knew I hadn’t dreamed this..thank you! I promise, if I ever run for office again, I’ll decloak here and have the BJ commentariat to hand to mock me to the skies!

  76. 76
    Cacti says:

    The most consistently annoying thing about Sanders, a Democrat of 5-minutes, is the way he tries to wrap himself in the legacy of FDR, Truman, and LBJ.

    Find me a single instance where any of those life-long Democrats called themselves a socialist or a democratic socialist.

  77. 77
    dmsilev says:

    @Adam L Silverman: That’s just …wow.

  78. 78
    geg6 says:

    OT: SCOOOOOOOOOOOOORE!!!!!!!!!!!

  79. 79
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @SarahT: I just saw the report from one of the reporters at the San Jose Mercury News. Which, I have to say, does not do a very good job of keeping me informed about what is going on on Mercury. And would a weekly feature on Uranus and Pluto and maybe the mysterious new planet they thing they’ve discovered kill them? That’s basically all just neighborhood news.

  80. 80
    chopper says:

    so basically, when asked how he’s gonna accomplish anything, he says “volume”.

  81. 81
    dmsilev says:

    @Miss Bianca: We’re good at mockery…

  82. 82
    trollhattan says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Ruh roh.

  83. 83
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Mnemosyne: We did ask Alain to put a script in that deleted anything your wrote if it contained Hamilton. That might be it.//

  84. 84
    pseudonymous in nc says:

    @Kay:

    “Tens of thousands of Syrian refugees” taking money from homeless veterans. Oh, God. You don’t know where to start with that mess.

    #EverydayTrumpism

    The president is going to stump hard, because he wants to make sure that this kind of bullshit is de-legitimised before he leaves office, after months of it being legitimised by Donny the Con.

    Sanders’ job is to get his supporters behind the party — and all its candidates right down the ticket — and to contribute to the platform, and to ensure that every vote counts and is counted in November. And I think he can do it, and that he’ll actually want to do it.

  85. 85
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap:

    For people who have to avoid wheat and/or gluten, King Arthur Flour makes a very nice gluten-free baking mix that produces super-fluffy (and thick) pancakes.

    My poor coworker has discovered that her severe grass allergy means that sorghum flour will damn near kill her (literally — she had to use the EpiPen), so now she has to read every “wheat free” and “gluten free” label very, very carefully.

  86. 86
  87. 87
    Betty Cracker says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: I’ve got a couple to post, but all I had was my iPhone camera, so they aren’t too impressive. Could’ve used a telephoto lens!

  88. 88
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I’ve suspected a lot of the tightening in polls– which is isn’t so tight in other polls– is tote-baggers who want to (self) indulge in a little effortless, no-cost “radicalism”, to “send a message” to… somebody

  89. 89
    SFAW says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    I had a similar thing happen in another thread. I thought it was because I messed up the goat sacrifice, and the FYWP gods were pissed.

  90. 90
    Mnemosyne says:

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    I don’t think so, but it was just a short comment about Bernie needing a vacation, so it wasn’t my more deathless prose.

    @Adam L Silverman:

    ;-p

    Be nice, or I’ll name one of my romance novel characters after you and make you explain it to your colleagues. There must have been at least a few people named Silverman in 1817 London.

    ETA: And not one of the characters who gets to have Fabio model for, either.

  91. 91
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Mnemosyne: I have heard that.

  92. 92
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Ohh…my skin is crawling up the wall to get away from this. Can the merciful Furies please come and claw me to death if I’m ever this clueless, however well-meaning I may be?

    ETA: Oh, and the Scooby shit is insane. Seriously twisted. Thank you (?)

  93. 93
    Bergman says:

    I wonder how long before Jane Sanders starts referring to herself in the third person, since hubby seems to have taken it up.

  94. 94
    Aqualad08 says:

    @jl:

    I heard a news report on Sanders’ recent days on the CA campaign trail that said Hillary Clinton has disappeared from his stump speeches and he is bashing GOP and Trump.

    Really? I was just watching the Last Word on MSNBC and saw a clip of him mocking Bill and Hillary for coming back to California because he guessed they knew the race “wasn’t quite over.”

  95. 95
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @dmsilev: I’m pretty sure he has never actually seen a comb. Ever. Like in his entire lifetime.

  96. 96
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @trollhattan: I always knew you were Jeb! trolling the blog. Now we have proof!

    (in case no one understands this, and I know if you have to explain a joke its not funny: Jeb Bush, when he was FL governor, would go ru roh whenever there was a problem. He was caught on video doing it several times.)

  97. 97
    Emma says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Gah. Gah. Kee-rist. Of all the creepy-crawly things to do.

  98. 98
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    Those kinds of white California liberals are the ones ruemara is stuck living and working among. It’s why she’s going a little nuts right now.

  99. 99
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Its also: 1) post officially clinching bounce for Trump, 2) consolidation bounce for Trump, 3) media still covering the Democratic primary like its competitive, so no consolidation at all for Secretary Clinton, 4) the media continuing to operate under The Clinton Rules further increasing/sustaining Secretary Clinton’s negatives.

    ETA: Finally, Trump’s broke and can’t access RNC resources until after the convention. That leaves about six to eight weeks for Secretary Clinton to unlimber the money guns and hammer him in June and July with negative advertising, defining him, making him look bad, etc before he’ll be able to even consider responding.

  100. 100
    trollhattan says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Busted. [sad face]

    You can clap now.

  101. 101
    benw says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: if I could figure out how to pronounce your nym, I’d write you a limerick! :)

  102. 102
    jl says:

    @geg6: I don’t see it as trying to be nice or trying to see the good. Sanders ran a much more successful campaign than most anyone expected, he has a large enough following that he can cause a lot of trouble, and he may be a loose cannon, or he may do a lot of good for the general election. That is just a fact. No reason to be bitter about it. Why not hope for the best?

    I was planning on voting for Sanders, but think I will vote for Clinton now in primary. Frank and Boxer are clearly very pissed with the guy, but they said he would get on board. They are successful politicians and know how things work an know Sanders better than most. So I hope they are right.

    I am cynical in my own way. In their professional capacities, politicians are tools to get things done, and I wish them well in their personal lives, but just not into getting attached to any of them. Not even Obama, who I think will go down as a top ten or fifteen president, historically important for what he did during his term, not just because he is a first.

  103. 103
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Mnemosyne: My great, great, great, great grandfather, last name Abrams, was a rabbi in 1817 London. The family of rabbis and scholars were affiliated with the Spanish-Portuguese Synagogue in the East End. It was actually located on Mitre Square when Jack the Ripper committed his murder there.

  104. 104
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Miss Bianca: You’re welcome! What did you think of the Scary Mary (Poppins) video last night?

  105. 105
    SFAW says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Are you trying to tell us that trollhattan is the alter-ego of Unlimited Corporate Cash (and his various other now-banned noms)? That’s cold.

  106. 106
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Aqualad08: Yeah, I’ve been away from the TV for a few days and trampling through the woods, but the 20 seconds of campaign news I caught on the car radio featured Sanders repeating his “don’t tell Secretary Clinton how close we are in the polls — she’s already nervous, blah-blah-blah.” Didn’t sound like he’d made the pivot to me.

  107. 107
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @SFAW: No, just teasing with a little inside Florida politics humor.

  108. 108
    NotMax says:

    @Adam L. Silverman

    Jeb apparently never learned that it’s always the crotchety carnival owner.

  109. 109
    Tom Levenson says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Your family and mine must have known each other. On my mother’s side — long term stalwarts of the Spanish and Portuguese synagogue. (My mum and dad were married at Beavis Marks.) Relevant surnames: Montefiore, Sebag-Montefiore, Waley, Cohen and Waley-Cohen. (Yes: a highly interbred clan.)

  110. 110
    jl says:

    @Aqualad08: That is BS campaign snark that both candidates do. The reporters say the laundry list of attacks on Clinton’s policy positions is gone, replace with GOP and Trump bashing. I listened to a couple, and didn’t hear a mention of Clinton. And that was a chore. Same damn stump speech. Well, it worked well enough to get him an enthusiastic following, have to hope he knows when to get helpful.

  111. 111
    The Thin Black Duke says:

    I do think that we can fulfill the legacy of presidents F.D.R., Truman, and L.B.J. and guarantee health care for all people as a right.

    This tweet was 135 characters. “Obama” is 5 characters … you could have fit it.

    Not for nothing, but it’s disrespectful bullshit like this from Sanders that burns my African-American ass.

  112. 112
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Will you think it gauche of me to say that I was blown away by it? I thought it utterly marvellous and creepy, and a beautiful equipoise between the almost saccharine-sweetness of the Disney movie and the astringency of the books. (and I read *all* the Mary Poppins books – there were several!)

  113. 113
    El Caganer says:

    @Bergman: First candidate I ever heard do that was Bob Dole.

  114. 114
    SFAW says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    the Spanish-Portuguese Synagogue in the East End.

    Although that may not be the statement I least expected to see today, it’s in the running. On the other hand, it makes me think of Blazing Saddles, so that’s good.

  115. 115
    gwangung says:

    @jl:

    I listened to Barney Frank and Barbara Boxer interviews, prepared to be outraged at their Bernie bashing. But they were far more insightful and charitable than this stuff.

    That’s because they’re accomplished politicians who get things done, not loud mouthed idiots like us.

    Its a tougher job than we loud mouth idiots give credit for…

  116. 116
    eclare says:

    @Bergman: I’ve noticed that too, recently. Highly annoying.

  117. 117
    SFAW says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Yes, Adam, I understood that. I was just busting your stones a little.

  118. 118
    Miss Bianca says:

    @northquirk: NOOO! Stay and say more!

  119. 119
    Betty Cracker says:

    @jl: You are wise to stay detached. I think PBO has been a great president — top 10 for sure — and I will miss him. But sometimes I find the gushing worshipfulness folks express about him embarrassing.

  120. 120
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @jl: I am too, we’ll see what he does next week or after the DC primary.

  121. 121
    burnspbesq says:

    @rikyrah:

    John Bel Edwards looks like he might turn out OK.

  122. 122
    Betty Cracker says:

    @gwangung: Ha! Good point!

  123. 123
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I’ve always assumed it’s like being Irish Catholic where everyone has at least one nun or priest in the family. My father-in-law’s funeral was performed by his cousin, who is a priest.

    There’s a fairly well-known rabbi out here named Susan Laemmle, who’s a great-granddaughter (I think) of Carl Laemmle, the founder of Universal Studios. He was one of the old moguls who stayed Jewish. Several of the others — like IIRC the various Warner brothers — converted to Catholicism.

  124. 124
    Aqualad08 says:

    @jl:

    That is BS campaign snark that both candidates do.

    Hmmmm… I don’t think HRC has antagonized BS that way in a good long while…

  125. 125
    NotMax says:

    @Betty Cracker

    Yowzah.

    A cult of personality is often unseemly and always irksome.

  126. 126
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Tom Levenson: I have no idea. I did the research when I lived there. Went to Jews College in Golder’s Green and pulled the archives. All I knew is that my maternal grandmother’s mother’s family was a family of rabbis and scholars named Abrams in the East End and there was a suggestion at the Grey Garden Street Synagogue. There’s no such synagogue and its Great Garden Street or was. What happened is when my folks came for a visit we toured around the UK and spent a week in Paris. When in London we went on several of the London Walks tours, including the “Jews of the Old East End”. The Spanish-Portuguese Synagogue was one of the stops and I intended to ask the rep from the synagogue for information. Before I could do so I noticed a large marble carving that was leaning against the wall where it had been removed for renovation/conservation and was awaiting remounting. It read: “In beloved memory of our rabbi, Barnett Abrams”, with a date in the late 19th Century. That’s either my great, great grandfather or great, great grand uncle.

    Regardless: small world. If you all have any family records or information, feel free to push them my way. My Mom would be ecstatic to see it. Almost all that information was lost when my great grandmother brought my grandmother and her other children to the US around 1906.

  127. 127
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @The Thin Black Duke: and my white one, he’s positively McCain-like in his combination of delusional grandiosity and spiteful, petty vindictiveness

    @gwangung: and they’re treating the bitter old crank and his noisier supporters with kid gloves

  128. 128
    Cacti says:

    Tweety had a great moment with Jeff Weaver today.

    Asked him about Trump’s tax returns, why he hadn’t released them, and whether he thought Trump was hiding something. Weaver, like a big stupid idiot, walked right into it and said yes, Trump was probably hiding something.

    Then Tweety dropped the hammer and asked why Bernie wouldn’t release his.

  129. 129
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:

    If Bernie fucking Sanders acts responsible and does the leader thing, it will be his first time. I keep waiting. He hasn’t exhibited any ability to actually lead his followers in any meaningful way – unless you count encouraging belief in delusional bullshit and whining about everything being unfair as leadership. Maybe he’ll grow out of it when he turns 75, but I have no reason to think he’ll be any help at all. And Jane Sanders can go fuck herself. I notice that no one asks her about their tax returns or Burlington College.

  130. 130
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Miss Bianca: No, I figured you’d appreciate it.

  131. 131
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @SFAW: Glad I could be of service.

  132. 132
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @SFAW: I’m tracking.

  133. 133
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:

    @Cacti:

    What did Weaver say? Jane was still looking for them? Did Tweety ask about the requested delay to release their personal financials to the FEC? So sick of these hypocritical delusional assholes.

  134. 134
    SFAW says:

    @efgoldman:

    Not “Beetlejuice”?

    (Although, considering it’s Mnem, I guess that should be “Burrtlejuice.”)

  135. 135
    NotMax says:

    @Mnemosyne

    The oft forgotten Warner brother (Sam?), who died relatively young, was an accounting whiz and known otherwise for having an almost unnaturally large head.

    Did I misread or are you in the Aloha State for a bit?

  136. 136
    geg6 says:

    @The Thin Black Duke:

    Burns my lily white ass, too. Just so you know.

  137. 137
    Cacti says:

    @Aqualad08:

    Hmmmm… I don’t think HRC has antagonized BS that way in a good long while…

    Shit, Hillary hasn’t touched any of the stuff that Bernie would get beaten over the head with in a general election.

  138. 138
    SFAW says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Tracking? As in “keeping track”? Or something else? Not getting your banter at all, Squiffy.

  139. 139
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    I’m assuming you smart science-y people have already batted this one around?

    Greta Van Susteren ‏@ greta 11h11 hours ago
    Greta Van Susteren Retweeted NBC Nightly News
    Why did they wait until NOW to release these? pics taken in 2015 and we pay their salaries in tax dollars
    –NBC Nightly News @ NBCNightlyNews
    –NASA releases sharpest images of Pluto ever taken; captured via spacecraft’s flyby in 2015.

    after being generally and appropriately mocked, she’s trying to pretend she was calling for increased funding for NASA. Ima stick with my original opinion that if she had a brain, she’d play with it.

  140. 140
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I did. : )

    @Mnemosyne: Do it, Mnem!

  141. 141
    The Thin Black Duke says:

    I remember the first time I saw the famous photograph of the African-American boy in the Oval Office who touched Obama’s hair just to see for himself if it was the same as his. I can recall feeling several emotions at that moment, but “gushing worshipfulness” wasn’t one of them.

  142. 142
    Miss Bianca says:

    @The Thin Black Duke: @geg6: May I just say, “mine too”?

  143. 143
    geg6 says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    When you’ve been through as many disappointing presidents and candidates as Inhave, you wouldn’t feel that way. I am in no way embarrassed to say how much I love and admire him and would give anything for another eight years of this great man, Obama. Never been so proud of any vote I’ve ever made. I can’t gush enough to express it.

  144. 144
    gwangung says:

    @Cacti:

    Tweety had a great moment with Jeff Weaver today.

    Asked him about Trump’s tax returns, why he hadn’t released them, and whether he thought Trump was hiding something. Weaver, like a big stupid idiot, walked right into it and said yes, Trump was probably hiding something.

    Then Tweety dropped the hammer and asked why Bernie wouldn’t release his.

    I think it’s a fair criticism of Sanders that he doesn’t seem to pick good subordinates. Weaver is not even rookie-leauge calibre….

  145. 145
    NotMax says:

    Repeating from below for the benefit of the parents among y’all..

    Kids. What’cha gonna do?

  146. 146
    Cacti says:

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne:

    What did Weaver say? Jane was still looking for them? Did Tweety ask about the requested delay to release their personal financials to the FEC? So sick of these hypocritical delusional assholes

    Some lame version of “That’s different because of reasons.” But Tweety kept hectoring him about it until the end of the segment.

  147. 147
    The Thin Black Duke says:

    @geg6: Fair enough, and I apologize for coming across angrier than I meant to be.

  148. 148
    seaboogie says:

    @rikyrah:

    People say that he will do the right thing and endorse Hillary.
    We shall see. 😬

    I used to say that, and now am not so sure. But if he doesn’t come around, I think Sanders has a not-too-distant hot date in the woodshed with Obama, Hillary, Reid, Pelosi and possibly Warren too, for good measure – kind of an “oval-ish” woodshed that is nicely appointed.

  149. 149
    Mnemosyne says:

    @NotMax:

    You misread, sadly. I was saying that Bernie should take a short vacation once next week’s primaries are over.

  150. 150
    geg6 says:

    @The Thin Black Duke:

    No apologies needed. I can’t even play imagine how pissed I’d be if I was black. I’d be in jail, probably, if not dead. I don’t know how you do it.

  151. 151
    hovercraft says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    I cracked up when I saw that. I mean why would it take so long to get images from 3 billion miles away. I know next to nothing about space or physics, but even I know that stuff takes a while.
    So anxious to bash government you give yourself a wedgie.

  152. 152
    Carl W says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    I read *all* the Mary Poppins books – there were several!

    I would have said the same thing, until I looked just now and discovered that the most recent book was published in 1988 (54 years after the first book). So the fact that I’ve read all of them I could get my hands on in the early 80’s means that I definitely haven’t read all the books :)

  153. 153
    jl says:

    @Betty Cracker: It is hard to resist Obama. Amazing what he did. I guess I channel getting too attached to him into fury what the GOP tried to do to his administration. I am still extremely proud that the US elected him president.

    I can understand getting too loyal and attached to Obama more than any other politician around today. I joked about Obama playing Sanders in pushing Clinton to the left in an earlier thread today about his speech. But that might just be his political mastery at doing his best to keep the Democratic Party united. i hope he plays a huge role in the general election. Economy getting good enough for people to give him the benefit of the doubt again, and actually consider what he says.

  154. 154
    burnspbesq says:

    And now, a break from Clinton v. Sanders.

    My niece was named first-team all-State today (Illinois, girls’ water polo).

    I am disgustingly proud of her.

    Way to go, Lauren.

  155. 155
    hovercraft says:

    This story is not going to go away.

    From Redstate:

    http://www.redstate.com/…

    Wow. This and testimonials from real Trump U participants should be played within the rust belt from now until the election. Game. Set. Match.

    From the Redstate entry if you are not inclined to go there yourself:

    So the Trump campaign has released a video with purported testimonials from Trump University students which I guess is supposed to show that Trump University was not a scam. This video features three people – none of whom have ever bought or sold real estate for a living. One of them appears to be a professional testimonial-giver for seminars, one appears to give these kinds of seminars for himself, and one of them has an ongoing business and personal relationship with the Trump family, who have allowed him to sell his protein water on a number of their properties.
    and

    Another of the persons featured on the video is Casey Hoban, who is also not today involved in the business of selling or buying real estate. He claims in the video that he was, either in Florida or South Carolina (he is not really clear) but one wonders if the returns from these real estate deals were so “incalculable” why he is in the business of selling protein water (instead of real estate, which is booming right now).

    While Mr. Hoban does not appear to be in the business of buying and selling real estate, he does appear to be in some sort of business and personal relationship with Donald Trump and the Trump family through his protein water company, and a supporter of Trump’s.

  156. 156
    Mnemosyne says:

    @efgoldman:

    I seem to only share my name with people in Italy, which is one of the reasons I stay pseudonymous.

    Also, Adam beat you to the “Hamilton” joke.

    @Miss Bianca:

    I’m tempted, but I’d have to figure out where to put it in. Having a stablehand named Silverman doesn’t seem terribly plausible.

  157. 157
    SciNY says:

    I’ve been thinking a lot about game theory and Bernie’s legacy. I can kinda sorta understand the need to keep up the good fight until the end, though I have to assume he realizes HRC never went DEFCON1 on him like the GOP would have. The question is, what moves does he have, and what’s his payoff matrix? He’s had a virtual grift in the Senate — gets to make his points, rarely takes a tough vote, can be the maverick, all without the burden of building a coalition with reasoning, arm twisting, and duct tape. If he goes nuclear (no/tepid endorsement of the popular vote/pledged delegate winner), flipping the election to Trump, his sinecure is over. Plus, no Democrat will speak up for him if President Trump’s DOJ decides to dig into his family’s finances (along with many many other real or perceived enemies). So he needs HRC to win even if loathes her and her realpolitik with every fiber of his being.

    I also gotta say that I’m thoroughly heartened to hear ol’ Bill Weld spell out that (1) HRC’s emails are a nothingburger (as a former federal prosecutor who busted plenty of corruption in MA politics, he should know) and (2) that Trump’s racist messaging is nothing short of an advertisement for the next Kristallnacht. It’s like they always say, but even truer this time — the stakes in this election are as high as any I’ve seen in my lifetime. Heightening the contradictions is appeasement. I think lots of non-rabid Republicans know this. I even wonder if there may be a reverse Bradley effect — longtime GOPers getting into the voting booth with just their conscience, and switching who they vote for out of pure love of country. A close race in the polling could turn into a landslide on Election Day.

  158. 158
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @RK: Bullshit. Just saying.

  159. 159
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Mnemosyne: Not in the slightest… Altho’ now I *really* wish I could show one of my first chapters… you’d be a perfect first reader…but how? > : >

  160. 160
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @SFAW: Tracking as in following along. On track. I understand.

  161. 161
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yeah, heard about this at dinner tonight with some geek friends. Greta is demonstrating that she might be smart enough to be a lawyer, but that’s all the room she has in her cranium for smart stuff.

  162. 162
    CONGRATULATIONS! says:

    Has Bernie Sanders read a newspaper in the last twenty years? Christ. Willful stupidity always is the worst.

    Look, Paul Ryan has heard from his constituents. The same people, I might add, who put Scott Walker into the governor’s office in Wisconsin twice. They want tax cuts for millionaires, prison for blacks, no free education for anyone, and for labor unions to be dismantled. Loud and clear. That’s what they want. I don’t know what the fuck Bernie thinks is going to change that, they’ve already been asked and answered, as the lawyers say.

  163. 163
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Tom Levenson:

    Your cousin Simon has a new book out about The Romanovs that I am panting to read.

  164. 164
    Matt McIrvin says:

    You know, we’re not quite at the point in the 2008 campaign where Hillary Clinton conceded, quit with the questionable stunts like getting Florida and Michigan counted, and let the general-election campaign happen.

    We’re about a week out from there.

    At this point, I’m willing to wait and see for at least that long…

  165. 165
    dollared says:

    Wow, AL, how fucking tiresome.

    Let me translate for you: he would negotiate with Paul Ryan, and when nothing gets past Ryan, he would make the next Congressional election a referendum on the college plan. And he would generate unusually high youth turnout for a midterm, because Free College.

    That’s called a plan.

    Get a fucking life, Anne. You used to be interesting and intelligent. Now you are just willfully obtuse and obessed with the Old Jewish Soculist Boogeyman.

  166. 166
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    Hm. A dilemma, because my website-to-email has been misbehaving lately and I’ve been missing messages. Let me futz around on the intertubes and see if I can puzzle out the problem.

  167. 167
    benw says:

    @efgoldman: so SiubhanDuinne rhymes with Ma’am? Hm. Ma’am, ham, cram, slam. This may be trickier than I first thought.

  168. 168
    PatrickG says:

    @gf120581:

    He’s pretty much shot himself in the foot with his actions lately as far as being relevant in the future.

    I’m uncertain as to what course Sanders will take. I do think it’s worth remembering that a lot of people were saying this about Clinton at this point in 2008 (and yes, it was closer), and we all saw that burned bridges can be rebuilt. So, we’ll see. What he does after Tuesday will be telling.

    I’m crossing my fingers that he wants to go down in American history as more than a crotchety footnote.

  169. 169
    hovercraft says:

    Bernie continues to show that the only true progressives are his supporters. Everyone else is just faking it.

    Sen. Bernie Sanders lobbed another shot at the Democratic National Committee on Wednesday, charging that chairwoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz is keeping labor union members off the DNC’s platform drafting committee.
    “What we heard from the DNC was they did not want representatives of labor unions on the platform drafting committee. That’s correct. To the best of my knowledge,” Sanders said in Spreckels, California, during a news conference on fracking.
    The drafting committee, however, does have labor representation. Paul Booth of the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees union was on the list of names Hillary Clinton’s campaign submitted and the DNC approved.
    But another union representative — RoseAnn DeMoro, executive director of National Nurses United, the largest union of nurses in the country, which supports Sanders — was submitted by the Sanders camp to be included on the committee, but Wasserman Schultz didn’t approve her for the panel.

    Read more: http://www.politico.com/blogs/.....z4AOLRAogv
    Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook

  170. 170
    Carl W says:

    @hovercraft: I wanted to see more context for your Trump U quotes, so I looked them up. In case others are curious, the quotes are copied from
    http://www.dailykos.com/storie.....ting-today
    which is itself mostly excerpts of
    this redstate post.

  171. 171
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @hovercraft: What I always say about the bandwidth they’re dealing with getting pictures from (beyond) Pluto is that it’s like a dialup modem connection… in the late 1980s. Downloading photographs in those days took some effort.

  172. 172
    Miss Bianca says:

    @dmsilev: oh, but *that* would be productive!

    @Carl W: was deeply shocked to hear that there had been Mary Poppins books published in the 80s!

  173. 173
    SarahT says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Crappity crap crap. Not on facebook so phone won’t let me watch. But will check it out on the computer tomorrow for sure. Thanks !

  174. 174
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Reggie Mantle: Walk away. Seriously, you stepped up a couple of weight classes. You can’t box at this level.

  175. 175
    burnspbesq says:

    @dollared:

    Do you have any idea how safe Paul Ryan’s district is? There is only one way to get him out of the House, and that’s win control of the Wisconsin Legislature and gerrymander him out.

    You’ve always been ignorant, and apparently that shows no prospect of changing any time soon.

  176. 176
    hovercraft says:

    @dollared:
    Breath, show me where the bad lady touched you.
    Reality bites I know but it’s gonna be okay.
    If you don’t like the company, go away I’m sure FireDogLake or somesuch would be a much more comfortable support group for you.

  177. 177
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Greta Van Susteren Retweeted NBC Nightly News
    Why did they wait until NOW to release these? pics taken in 2015 and we pay their salaries in tax dollars
    –NBC Nightly News @ NBCNightlyNews
    –NASA releases sharpest images of Pluto ever taken; captured via spacecraft’s flyby in 2015.

    Does she think it’s like taking a selfie with her iPhone and posting it on Instagram within 30 seconds? If it’s been discussed on BJ I’ve missed it, but some of my FB friends were having a lot of fun at Greta’s expense.

  178. 178
    Cacti says:

    @dollared:

    Wow, AL, how fucking tiresome.

    Let me translate for you: he would negotiate with Paul Ryan, and when nothing gets past Ryan, he would make the next Congressional election a referendum on the college plan. And he would generate unusually high youth turnout for a midterm, because Free College.

    That’s called a plan.

    Relying on the college kid vote was President McGovern’s plan too.

  179. 179
    PatrickG says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I know a half-dozen people or so who were at that rally… going to have to look that up. thanks for further reinforcing my desire to say nothing via social media, but everything via phone banking!

    P.S. Go Warriors! #sportsball

  180. 180
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @geg6:

    You speak for me.

  181. 181
    SarahT says:

    @jl: Agree. Think he’s gonna work his heart out this election, as will Warren, Pelosi, Biden, etc. As usual, Obama’s got this.

  182. 182
    seaboogie says:

    @The Thin Black Duke:

    I remember the first time I saw the famous photograph of the African-American boy in the Oval Office who touched Obama’s hair just to see for himself if it was the same as his.

    I am a white woman from MN who loves mayonnaise, so very white – and I was so touched by that moment – that gesture just spoke volumes about identity and history and struggle (and also the the future and possibility) to me.

  183. 183
    hovercraft says:

    @Carl W:
    Thanks for the links.

  184. 184
    gwangung says:

    @burnspbesq: Like a lot of civilians, he knows where he wants to go…but doesn’t have much of a notion of what it takes to get there.

    This is Poli Sci 201, with some intermediate level tactics and planning that a lot of people just don’t think about.

  185. 185
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @efgoldman:

    :: snort ::

  186. 186
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @dollared: make the next Congressional election a referendum on the college plan. And he would generate unusually high youth turnout for a midterm, because Free College.

    And Republicans, and Claire McCaskill, will calmly say “Well, we’re against Free College”, and that will be the only counter-argument, no one will mention massive new entitlement! or huge tax increases! and Bernie! can’t fail!

  187. 187
    NotMax says:

    @Mnemosyne

    I’d have to figure out where to put it in

    Randy peddler.

  188. 188
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @SarahT: They’re just pictures. The second link has the same ones as the first and its not facebook.

  189. 189
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @burnspbesq:

    Yay, Lauren! That’s very cool. Congratulations, Uncle Burnsie :-)

  190. 190
    gwangung says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I think the saddest thing was last weekend in San Francisco Oakland where a whole bunch of his white, middle class supporters were videoed singing We Shall Overcome in regard to him taking the nomination. The obliviousness was amazing.

    Well, this campaign has supporters who thought #MississippiBerning was a cool hashtag, so….

  191. 191
    SarahT says:

    @Adam L Silverman: That’s so cool – what a moment ! No trace left of our Russian/Hungarian/German family in the old country, but we do have family from the Yiddsh Theater memorialized in the sidewalk by the original 2nd Ave Deli. Deli’s long gone, but the sidewalk with their handprints is still there, (for now, anyway…).

  192. 192
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @benw:

    so SiubhanDuinne rhymes with Ma’am?

    SiubhanDuinne rhymes with nuthin’. It’s like “orange” that way.

  193. 193
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @SarahT: It was a pleasantly strange coincidence.

  194. 194
    SarahT says:

    @Adam L Silverman: W.T.F. ? Those Scooby pics are batshit in the very best way !

  195. 195
    seaboogie says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    SiubhanDuinne rhymes with nuthin’. It’s like “orange” that way.

    Roger Miller says “door hinge” IIRC.

  196. 196
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @efgoldman:

    …I might tell them I’m a member of Stormfront.

    Oy!

  197. 197
    Jonathan Holland Becnel says:

    @BettyCracker

    Why didn’t you quote the Army Specialist Combat Vet?
    Why haven’t posted anything about Clinton lying about what she told the state dept? Bernie talks about pie in the sky= instant scorn. Clinton spouting bullshit about her private server being hacked = crickets.
    The silence is deafening around here.

    Party atmosphere aside, there’s a serious undercurrent to this evening’s rally. Jesse Botkin, a former Army specialist who served one tour in Iraq and two in Afghanistan, is searching for a job and working on a computer-science degree on the side. He backs Sanders, he says, because he feels invisible to the political class: “Economically, nobody’s really taking into consideration the actual fucking people.” Botkin knows Sanders is promising too much; his agenda – for socialized health care and tuition-free college, among other lofty goals – is “not realistic.” But for Sanders’ backers, the candidate’s ambition is a feature, not a bug.

    Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/po.....z4AOPcqloG

    @JohnCole: why are so many of us young Army Combat Vets voting Bernie? Maybe cuz we’re sick of unjust wars!

    The establishment is pushing hard for Bernie to exit the race before the Convention. By any chance, did anyone see that Bernstein clip calling out Clinton about her emails? Bernstein is a direct line to the Obama Admin, who I’m sure are getting frustrated that Clinton hasn’t wrapped up the nomination yet.

  198. 198
    SarahT says:

    @burnspbesq: Except for the vile anti-choice bill he signed into law today, sure. Hard to be worse than Jindal, anyway.

  199. 199
    Luthe says:

    @Jonathan Holland Becnel: Look, it’s a pie full of Hollandaise sauce!

  200. 200
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @SarahT: Trust me, I only peddle the best WTF stuff. Just ask Miss Bianca.

  201. 201
    SarahT says:

    @The Thin Black Duke: SO fucking disrespectful. Yeah, ignore the President who actually DID give us healthcare. No way do I think that omission was accidental. Was just furious when I read that.

  202. 202
    SarahT says:

    @Adam L Silverman: and us meddling kids appreciate it.

  203. 203
    trollhattan says:

    @Jonathan Holland Becnel:
    So new; so past your sell-by date. “Answers, I haz none to my most excellent question thingies!”

    You have a geometry quiz tomorrow, mister, you best study.

  204. 204
    SarahT says:

    @gwangung: Oh god…forgot about that particular piece of tonedeaf idiocy.

  205. 205
    Jonathan Holland Becnel says:

    @Luthe:

    Look! It’s a country I can bomb!

  206. 206
    Mnemosyne says:

    @SarahT:

    Edward G. Robinson got his start in Yiddish-language theater in New York (under his birth name of Emmanuel Goldenberg, natch).

  207. 207
    RaflW says:

    I just keep saying to myself “June 8. Hang on until June 8.”

  208. 208
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Mnemosyne: Wasn’t he arrested for thought crime and reconditioned?

  209. 209
    SarahT says:

    @burnspbesq: Woohoo !

  210. 210

    Thank god, JHB is back. Hi Jonathan! *waves*

    @burnspbesq: Stupendous! Congrats. (My stupendous niece is also named Lauren!)

  211. 211
    ruemara says:

    @northquirk: Bee careful. That head pounding can hurt.

  212. 212
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Adam L Silverman:@SarahT: I…uh…what? I feel like the Dormouse in Wonderland!

  213. 213
    trollhattan says:

    @SarahT:
    No historian am I, but having lived through many a presidency I feel we’ve experienced a special era. I expect I’ll never be so moved as the president’s eulogy for Reverend Pinckney.

    https://youtu.be/rRvBzzR5tdA

  214. 214
    Jonathan Holland Becnel says:

    @trollhattan:

    @Jonathan Holland Becnel:
    So new; so past your sell-by date. “Answers, I haz none to my most excellent question thingies!”

    You have a geometry quiz tomorrow, mister, you best study.

    Lol. Awwww are my questions too ethical for you to answer? Maybe you’re upset the youth are rebelling against their elders?

    Uh oh, I haz many questions on my thingy!

  215. 215
    SarahT says:

    @Mnemosyne: Yup. And the only acual Jewish actor in ‘The Ten Commandments” (playing a baddie, of course). What I’ve read about Edward G. Robinson makes him seem to have been a pretty good guy in real life. Interesting guy.

  216. 216
    Jonathan Holland Becnel says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Good to see you too, ole buddy ole pal :)

  217. 217
    Death Panel Truck says:

    @Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap:

    Dollop the batter in 1/4 cup amounts per pancake. When the tops are covered with small bursting bubbles, flip the pancakes and cook the other sides to golden brown.

    Whenever Lisa Douglas whipped up a batch of “hotscakes” for Oliver, she didn’t flip them until they started to “bloop.”

  218. 218
    El Caganer says:

    @Adam L Silverman: No, that was Winston Jones. Emmanuel Goldenberg was an invention of the Ministry of Truth.

  219. 219
  220. 220
    NotMax says:

    @Mnemosyne

    Paul Muni came out of a stellar career in Yiddish theater as well.

    Remember seeing, sometime during the late Sixties, a poster (in English) for a Yiddish theater production starring Menasha Skulnick.

    GIANT letters across the top shouting “Lovable Menasha is back!”

    For some reason that phrase cracked me up, and still does.

  221. 221
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @El Caganer: That’s what the Ministry of Truth wants us to think!

    ETA: Also, its Goldstein.

  222. 222
    SarahT says:

    @trollhattan: Right there with you. We won’t see his likes again in our lifetime. Only consolation is you just know he’ll continue to do great work out of office, too.

  223. 223
    SarahT says:

    @Miss Bianca: It’s those damn scooby snacks.

  224. 224

    @Jonathan Holland Becnel: I presume the people here have been treating you with complete sentences for the most part.

  225. 225
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Damme, sir! How *did* you guess at my passionate weakness for the Airplane?!

  226. 226

    @Miss Bianca: Oh, Denver’s lovely, thanks for asking.

  227. 227
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Miss Bianca: Lucky guess. My two favorites are their version of Wooden Ships, which even Crosby and Nash admitted they thought Airplane did better, and Miracles.

  228. 228
    gwangung says:

    @SarahT: Yeah….it’s too bad some of his…not so sharp….supporters were also some of the loudest.

  229. 229
    Jonathan Holland Becnel says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    lmao! Indeed, the insults are grammatically correct.

    Except for Trollhattan, I think s/he has been looking at too many cat memes.

  230. 230
    trollhattan says:

    @RaflW:
    Sent in my CA ballot with its eleventy-gazillion Hillary votes (yet–just two stamps) last week, so the dealio it is done.

  231. 231
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I’ll grant you your choices, but – oh! So much sublimity beyond them…now I’m listening to “Surrealistic Pillow” again and grinning like a fool. I thank you. : )

    ETA: If you like “Miracles”, don’t you love “Today” as well? Marty Balin had a voice that killed as hard as Grace’s…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uokp0aEiT-A

  232. 232
    SarahT says:

    Welp, night all. Been an interesting and informational thread – thanks !

  233. 233
    Jonathan Holland Becnel says:

    Anyone read the interview about what “White Rabbit” means?

  234. 234

    @Jonathan Holland Becnel: Grammar is important. So are cat memes.

  235. 235
    Cacti says:

    @Jonathan Holland Becnel:

    The establishment is pushing hard for Bernie to exit the race before the Convention. By any chance, did anyone see that Bernstein clip calling out Clinton about her emails? Bernstein is a direct line to the Obama Admin, who I’m sure are getting frustrated that Clinton hasn’t wrapped up the nomination yet.

    The only way Bernie “wins” is by convincing the supers to choose him despite the fact that he lost by every measure.

    Very progressive.

  236. 236
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Miss Bianca: I didn’t say I didn’t like other Airplane songs, just that those two were my two favorites. Somebody to Love is also right up there rounding out the top three.

  237. 237
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I didn’t say I didn’t like other Airplane songs, just that those two were my two favorites.

    Forgive me. : )

    Somebody to Love is also right up there rounding out the top three.

    “Somebody to Love” is one of those songs channeled from the Beyond.

  238. 238
  239. 239
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Jonathan Holland Becnel: Which interview? Link?

  240. 240
    Jonathan Holland Becnel says:

    @Cacti:

    The only way Bernie “wins” is by convincing the supers to choose him despite the fact that he lost by every measure.

    You mean those same supers who voted before the campaign even started?

    You mean those same supers who are voting against the majority of their states voters?

    Very progressive

    Let Bernie run his campaign til the end like Clinton in 08.

    Stop whining, it doesn’t suit you..

  241. 241
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    *blink*

    *blink*

    err…not quite. But sublime, quite sublime, in its way!

  242. 242

    @Jonathan Holland Becnel:

    You mean those same supers who voted before the campaign even started?

    So? Also, they haven’t voted yet.

    You mean those same supers who are voting against the majority of their states voters?

    Them’s the rules, and even if you make them into pledged delegates, well, you seem numerate.

    Let Bernie run his campaign til the end like Clinton in 08.

    So he’ll concede June 8 then? OK.

  243. 243
  244. 244
    Fair Economist says:

    @burnspbesq:

    Do you have any idea how safe Paul Ryan’s district is? There is only one way to get him out of the House, and that’s win control of the Wisconsin Legislature and gerrymander him out.

    Actually Ryan’s district isn’t safe at all; Romney only won it by 4 points. Clinton will probably carry it – I’m expecting more than a 4 point swing from 2012. Ryan himself won by 11%, but still, he is safe only if he can keep some distance from the Republican Party (hard when he’s a top leader, obviously) or avoid having his election nationalized.

  245. 245
    Jonathan Holland Becnel says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    i was responding to the “by every measure” part.

    You’re right though, and no I don’t think Bernie will concede June 8 unless he loses by double digits in NJ and Cali.

  246. 246
    Aqualad08 says:

    @dollared:

    Let me translate for you: he would negotiate with Paul Ryan, and when nothing gets past Ryan, he would make the next Congressional election a referendum on the college plan. And he would generate unusually high youth turnout for a midterm, because Free College.

    That’s called a plan.

    My Christ, is it June 8 yet?

  247. 247
    Aqualad08 says:

    @Jonathan Holland Becnel:

    Clinton spouting bullshit about her private server being hacked = crickets.
    The silence is deafening around here.

    Criminal intent. What was it again? Because without it, indictments are rather rare…

    :

    Stop whining, it doesn’t suit you…

    Tell us again how it’s all rigged against you…

  248. 248

    @Jonathan Holland Becnel:

    unless he loses by double digits in NJ and Cali

    So you’re saying there’s a chance…

  249. 249
    Cacti says:

    @Jonathan Holland Becnel:

    You mean those same supers who voted before the campaign even started?

    You mean those same supers who are voting against the majority of their states voters?

    Very progressive

    Let Bernie run his campaign til the end like Clinton in 08.

    Stop whining, it doesn’t suit you..

    I see you avoided the point entirely.

    Now if you don’t mind, please state the progressive case for disregarding that Sanders has won fewer votes and fewer contests overall.

    If you can’t, just say so.

  250. 250
    Jonathan Holland Becnel says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    unless he loses by double digits in NJ and Cali
    So you’re saying there’s a chance…

    Did you mean to quote Dumb and Dumber? Cuz if you did, then +++!

    Haven’t you heard? Bernie and trumpistas are saying Clinton has to wrap it before the convention before her email investigation heats up!

  251. 251
    Luthe says:

    @Jonathan Holland Becnel: Throwing pie is very dangerous.

  252. 252

    @Jonathan Holland Becnel:

    unless he loses by double digits in NJ and Cali

    So you’re saying there’s a chance…

    Did you mean to quote Dumb and Dumber?

    I did.

    Did you know you can nest blockquotes?

    Why would wrapping it up before the convention be in the best interests of Bernie, BTW, if the emails are going to actually be A Thing? Wouldn’t Bernie want that to blow up in her face before she’s officially nominated? Think, man!

  253. 253
    Cacti says:

    It’s really sad that “progressives” like Jonathan Hollandaise Bechamel want to 3/5 vote of non-white Democrats, because they voted for not-Bernie.

  254. 254

    @Luthe: Aw, don’t pie the kid, he’s sincere and kinda fun to spar with.

    Or, you know, do. Whatever floats your goat.

  255. 255
    Jonathan Holland Becnel says:

    @Aqualad08:

    Boston Herald:

    With the Clintons you can always count on one thing — it’s never the crime; it’s the cover-up.

    For more than a year former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has insisted her use of a private email server during her tenure at State was no big deal — nothing her predecessors didn’t do.

    However, according to a new inspector general’s report, “By Secretary Clinton’s tenure, the department’s guidance was considerably more detailed and more sophisticated.
    The IG also found, “Secretary Clinton should have preserved any federal records she created and received on her personal account by printing and filing those records… At a minimum Secretary Clinton should have surrendered all emails dealing with department business before leaving government service, and because she did not do so, she did not comply with the department’s policies…”

    We also know she destroyed 32,000 emails because they were “personal.” How do we know that? Well, because she says so.

    Mrs. Clinton has insisted she would “talk to anybody, any time” about the emails, adding, “I’ve encouraged all of [my staff] to be very forthcoming.”

    Her three top staffers, including Huma Abedin, all refused to talk to the inspector general.

    Clinton has insisted her information was secure.

    The inspector general found that an adviser to Bill Clinton had to shut down the server on Jan. 9, 2011, because he believed “someone was trying to hack us.” Later that day he reported “we were attacked again so I shut [the server] down for a few min.”

    The incident was never reported to computer security personnel at State.

    And, of course, Clinton insists none of the information transmitted was classified “at the time,” but today we know at least 2,000 of Clinton’s messages were classified, some of them as “top secret.”

    So many lies, so little time. And so very much for the FBI to sort out, let’s hope before November.

  256. 256
    Cacti says:

    @Jonathan Holland Becnel:

    The Boston Herald?

    LoL

  257. 257
    Jonathan Holland Becnel says:

    @Cacti:

    Now if you don’t mind, please state the progressive case for disregarding that Sanders has won fewer votes and fewer contests overall

    This is not in dispute. Clintons winning more voters and states.

    You’re avoiding my answer. The Superdelegates are inherently not progressive. Get rid of em.

  258. 258

    @Jonathan Holland Becnel:

    The Superdelegates are inherently not progressive. Get rid of em.

    Caucuses too. They’re stupid relics of a bygone era. I used to think the idea was exciting until I went to one and was older than 24.

  259. 259
    Jonathan Holland Becnel says:

    @Cacti:

    How about CBS?

    CLINTON: “The system we used was set up for President Clinton’s office. And it had numerous safeguards. It was on property guarded by the Secret Service. And there were no security breaches.” — March 2015 press conference.

    THE REPORT: Evidence emerged of hacking attempts, though it’s unclear whether they were successful.

    On Jan. 9, 2011, (asterisk)an adviser to former President Bill Clinton notified the State Department’s deputy chief of staff for operations that he had to shut down the server because he suspected “someone was trying to hack us and while they did not get in i did.,nt (sic) want to let them have the chance to.”

    Later that day, he sent another note. “We were attacked again so I shut (the server) down for a few min.”

    The following day the deputy chief emailed top Clinton aides and instructed them not to email the secretary “anything sensitive.”

    Also in May 2011, Clinton told aides that someone was “hacking into her email,” after she received a message with a suspicious link, the new audit report said.

    The Associated Press has previously reported that, according to detailed records compiled in 2012, Clinton’s server was connected to the internet in ways that made it more vulnerable to hackers. It appeared to allow users to connect openly over the internet to control it remotely.

    Moreover, it’s unclear what protection her email system might have achieved from having the Secret Service guard the property. Digital security breaches tend to come from computer networks, not over a fence.

    ——

    CLINTON: “What I did was allowed. It was allowed by the State Department. The State Department has confirmed that.” — AP interview, September.

    THE REPORT: “No evidence” that Clinton asked for or received approval to conduct official government business on a personal email account run through a private server in her New York home. According to top State Department officials interviewed for the investigation, the departments that oversee security “did not — and would not — approve” her use of a personal account because of security concerns.

    Clinton has changed her account since the report came out. On Thursday, she told CNN “I thought it was allowed. I knew past secretaries of state used personal email.”

    Colin Powell was the only secretary of state who used personal email for work, but not to the extent she did, and he did not use a private server.

    ——

    CLINTON: “It was fully above board. Everybody in the government with whom I emailed knew that I was using a personal email.” — AP interview, September.

    CLINTON: “The people in the government knew that I was using a personal account . the people I was emailing to on the dot gov system certainly knew and they would respond to me on my personal email.” — NBC News interview, September.

    THE REPORT: According to the findings, it’s unclear how widespread knowledge was about Clinton’s use of a personal account. Though Clinton’s use of a private email was discussed with some in her agency, senior department officials who worked for her, including the undersecretary responsible for security, said they were not asked to approve or review the use of her private server.

    The officials also said they were “unaware of the scope or extent” of her email practices, even though Clinton exchanged hundreds of thousands of messages with people in government from her personal account.

    ——

    CLINTON: “In the fall, I think it was October of last year (2014), the State Department sent a letter to previous secretaries of state asking for help with their record-keeping, in part because of the technical problems that they knew they had to deal with. And they asked that we, all of us, go through our e-mails to determine what was work-related and to provide that for them.” — NBC News, September.

    THE REPORT: While it’s true that the State Department requested records from former secretaries of state in November 2014, the report says the department raised concerns about Clinton’s compliance with federal record-keeping laws years earlier, and the attention did not appear welcome.

    Two employees in the Office of Information Resources Management discussed concerns about her use of a personal email account in separate 2010 meetings. One of the employees stressed in one of the meetings that the information being transmitted needed to be preserved to satisfy federal records laws.

    They were instructed by the director of the department “never to speak of the Secretary’s personal email system again,” according to the report.

    ——

    CLINTON: “I think last August I made it clear I’m more than ready to talk to anybody anytime.” — CBS News interview in May.

    THE REPORT: Clinton declined through her lawyer to be interviewed for the report. Four other secretaries of state participated: John Kerry, Madeleine Albright, Condoleezza Rice and Colin Powell. She now says: “everything I had to say was out there.”

    But she has said she will speak to the FBI as part of a separate criminal investigation into possible security breaches related to her private server.

    In October, she testified about the issue before the House committee investigating the 2012 Benghazi attacks.

    It’s not like the State Dept is being run by a Republican. This was an Obama appointee we’re talking about.

  260. 260
    Jonathan Holland Becnel says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Caucuses too. They’re stupid relics of a bygone era. I used to think the idea was exciting until I went to one and was older than 24.

    Idk about you but 14 hours of hurry up and waiting sounds like tons of fun!

    Fuck Caucuses.

  261. 261
    Jonathan Holland Becnel says:

    @Cacti:

    It’s really sad that “progressives” like Jonathan Hollandaise Bechamel want to 3/5 vote of non-white Democrats, because they voted for not-Bernie.

    What? I’m from Louisiana where 2/3s of us are fucking poor no matter our race.

    Ugh, I can’t even respond to this.

    So ugly.

  262. 262

    @Jonathan Holland Becnel: He’s got your name dead-to-rights though.

  263. 263
    Cacti says:

    @Jonathan Holland Becnel:

    Ugh, I can’t even respond to this.

    It’s tough to defend the indefensible.

    But Bernie’s position is in keeping with other socialist revolutionaries who had little use for democracy.

    His admiration of Castro seems to extend to more areas than previously thought.

  264. 264
    Jonathan Holland Becnel says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    I do enjoy the name!

    I’ve always liked nicknames to tell you the truth. My first one (and the one that stung the most) was when they called me “fatnel” in 2nd grade. Hollendaise has a nice ring to it.

  265. 265
    Jonathan Holland Becnel says:

    @Cacti:

    Bernie’s position is in keeping with other socialist revolutionaries who had little use for democracy.

    You do know that socialist Revolutionaries have been like THE MOST inclusive people ever right?

    That’s why they had to be shut down. Can’t be having anyone other than propertied Caucasians voting in elections!

    It’s the capitalists who screw over poor people, NOT SOCIALISTS.

  266. 266
    Aqualad08 says:

    @Jonathan Holland Becnel: Regurgitated innuendo from a second-rate tabloid with a conservative bias? Why not quote the New York Post while you’re at? Where’s the beef, man? Where’s the evidence of broken law?

    And, of course, Clinton insists none of the information transmitted was classified “at the time,” but today we know at least 2,000 of Clinton’s messages were classified, some of them as “top secret.”

    And WHEN were they deemed “classified?” And by “some” of them being “top secret,” do they actually mean 22, none of which can be confirmed as being “top secret” at the time they were sent?

    This is what you’ve pinned your hopes to? More “smoke = fire” horseshit? Civilized America is up against a fascist who will take away healthcare and benefits from people a lot worse off than you’ll ever be and you’re still chewing on any tiny freeper morsel that will allow you to convince yourself your preferred candidate has anything more than an ass hair of a chance…. Way to go… seriously, top notch…

  267. 267
    Jonathan Holland Becnel says:

    @Cacti:

    It’s tough to defend the indefensible

    And FTR, Sanders wins over more youthful minorities than Clinton if that’s how you want to play this.

  268. 268
    dollared says:

    @burnspbesq: Hey Burnsie. I’m not talking about Ryan’s district. I’m talking about a majority in the House. Perhaps you’re aware that he can’t be Speaker if his party doesn’t have a majority? His district is irrelevant.

    But if you want to tell me all about his district, please enlighten me. How many times have you been there? Have you walked Burlington? Partied in Kenosha? Rang doorbells in Janesville?

    Do tell. Amazing how a law degree entitles you to pretend you stayed in Holiday Inn Express every night of your life.

  269. 269

    @Jonathan Holland Becnel: Old age and treachery will always overcome youth and exuberance.

  270. 270
    dollared says:

    @Cacti: Nice. Gratuitous accusation of racism. At least we know you’re a complete sleaze.

  271. 271
    Jonathan Holland Becnel says:

    @Aqualad08:

    This is what you’ve pinned your hopes to? More “smoke = fire” horseshit? Civilized America is up against a fascist who will take away healthcare and benefits from people a lot worse off than you’ll ever be and you’re still chewing on any tiny freeper morsel that will allow you to convince yourself your preferred candidate has anything more than an ass hair of a chance…. Way to go… seriously, top notch…

    Ummm, did you read all those response and rebuttals from the CBS article? I wanted to point out that Clinton lies. Then she changes her story. Then she lies again.

    What say you? Why did she lie so much?

  272. 272
    Jonathan Holland Becnel says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Ain’t dat the truth!

    Every once in a great while, the youth get their 15 minutes.

  273. 273
    dollared says:

    @Reggie Mantle: Bingo. This is not the behavior of a confident crowd.

  274. 274
  275. 275
    ChrisH says:

    It just struck me…

    As we’ve already shown that Trump got his campaign ideas from 30 Rock. Bernie had a great job lined up as a Democratic player but got delusions of grandeur. Bernie Sanders is Greenzo

  276. 276
    Aqualad08 says:

    @Jonathan Holland Becnel:

    What say you? Why did she lie so much?

    He asks, supporting a candidate who still tells his followers he can win when he can’t, who will presumably release his tax returns any minute now like he promised, about the only person standing between himself and an utterly pathological piece of shit having access to our nuclear codes…

    Half-truths in the face of uncodified disclosure rules aren’t crimes. What you adamantly call “lies” aren’t some nefarious plot. They’re a clumsy attempt to put a relatively trivial matter to rest. You go ahead and get hung up about it if you’d like, but the rest of don’t have the luxury of relying on our bullshit purity to make the bad man go away.

  277. 277
    Jonathan Holland Becnel says:

    Good Talk, Becnel!

  278. 278

    @Jonathan Holland Becnel: Good game, good game, the boosters are picking up the tab for pizza, in the mean time why not read my new blog post about document formatting?

  279. 279
    Plantsmantx says:

    @dmsilev: West thinks Sanders is today’s Martin Luther King, so I doubt he would have been the best choice to explain.

  280. 280
    Jonathan Holland Becnel says:

    @Aqualad08:

    He asks, supporting a candidate who still tells his followers he can win when he can’t, who will presumably release his tax returns any minute now like he promised, about the only person standing between himself and an utterly pathological piece of shit having access to our nuclear codes…

    Half-truths in the face of uncodified disclosure rules aren’t crimes. What you adamantly call “lies” aren’t some nefarious plot. They’re a clumsy attempt to put a relatively trivial matter to rest. You go ahead and get hung up about it if you’d like, but the rest of don’t have the luxury of relying on our bullshit purity to make the bad man go away.

    1) Technically he can still win if the Supers change their vote at the DNC. Likely? Hell no, but one can dream about those one in a million chances, can’t they?

    2) Sanders tax returns? He will release those when Clinton releases her Goldman Wall St speeches. 2 mil$ in speeches last year from big corporations. Yeah, she’s TOTALLY on the side of the little people, while Sanders averages 28$ a pop!

    3) You want to talk nuclear codes? Let’s break out the list shall we! Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Honduras. And you’re worried about Trump? Clintons the fucking Warmongerer.

    4) Half truths in the face of uncodified disclosures?Yeah, that’ll go over real well with the voters! Not everyone speaks such refined language. She absolutely knew what she was doing.

    5) Trivial matter? Try telling that to the submariner who accidentally took a picture and got thrown to the wolves, while the Sec of State blah blahs on an unsecured blackberry during a special ops briefing.

    6) most Clinton supporters are so wrapped up in the whole wolf in Sheeps clothing that they dismiss out of hand any Criticism that comes her way as immediately a right wing conspiracy.

    7) Purity. Hey, what can I say. When Bernies been saying the same shit over and over since the civil rights era, People tend to believe him.

  281. 281
  282. 282
    Aqualad08 says:

    @Jonathan Holland Becnel:

    Technically he can still win if the Supers change their vote at the DNC.

    And technically I have a shot at sleeping with Allison Brie, in that we are both human beings.

    He will release those when Clinton releases her Goldman Wall St speeches. 2 mil$ in speeches last year from big corporations.

    Right, because they are the exact same thing. Corporate speeches heard by actual human beings, none of whom have ever come forward with damning quotes said by the candidate. Meanwhile, she has over three decades of tax returns available online, but he can’t be bothered to hit the “print” button on his Turbo Tax… jeez… what a farce..

    Let’s break out the list shall we! Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Honduras. And you’re worried about Trump? Clintons the fucking Warmongerer.

    Right, Clinton is the one whining about how unfairly America is treated abroad and how we’ll take everybody’s oil. Get a fucking clue already…

    Half truths in the face of uncodified disclosures?Yeah, that’ll go over real well with the voters!

    It’s gone over pretty well with the primary voters… as a wise mane once said, “I don’t care about your damn e-mails!”

    Trivial matter? Try telling that to the submariner who accidentally took a picture and got thrown to the wolves

    Wait, you’re comparing 22 e-mails that were retroactively classified as “top secret” to actual photos of military hardware? Captain Ed must be vewy, vewy proud of you… ;) Maybe in his next life Saucier won’t destroyed a laptop, camera and memory card after learning he was under investigation and throw them into the woods…

    most Clinton supporters are so wrapped up in the whole wolf in Sheeps clothing that they dismiss out of hand any Criticism that comes her way as immediately a right wing conspiracy

    Not out of hand, just a weird observation that she’s been under constant GOP attack for the last 25 years without so much as a negative public perception to show for it, which was kind of their plan. Thanks for validating their efforts, though, I’m sure they appreciate it.

    Purity. Hey, what can I say. When Bernies been saying the same shit over and over since the civil rights era, People tend to believe him.

    Sad thing is I used to as well until he was too wrapped up in his ego to realize he lost… now he’s just another self-centered poll with an axe to grind…

  283. 283
    Cacti says:

    @Jonathan Holland Becnel:

    And FTR, Sanders wins over more youthful minorities than Clinton if that’s how you want to play this.

    Which negates him losing minority voters overall by large margins because?

  284. 284
    tybee says:

    @Jonathan Holland Becnel:

    “f I had done it right, more people would have been annoyed.” :)

  285. 285
    Barry says:

    Anne: “decrying the coarse anti-American partisanship of the party in power… especially if (goddess please make it so) that should be the Democratic party.”

    No, if the party in power is the Republicans, then he’ll blame the Democratic Party.

  286. 286
    SFAW says:

    @Aqualad08:

    Why do you even engage? Both Juvenile Hollandaise Bechamel and Ragged Mantle are clearly either
    (A) Bernie-or-Bust-ers or
    (B) Rethug trolls,
    neither of whom is interested in anything other than:
    in the case of (A), showing how pure and noble they are and if BJ-ers were just super nice and not at all insulting [lookin’ at YOU, Conster, you terrible evil person, in whose general direction they fart], they might maybe possibly sorta think about perhaps considering voting for Hillary in the General, but in the meantime they’ll tell us how much they hate her and how evil she is,
    or
    in the case of (B), they’ll tell us how much they hate her and how evil she is.

    The main difference between the two is that JHB’s writing style appears to be not-dissimilar to that of a 13-year-old who thinks his every word is just too cute/funny/witty for words (HA HA! LOL! Hey kids let’s put on a show! Wheee!), and Mantle revels in adopting the “y’all are assholes for not treating Bernie better so FUCK YOU ALL” pose.

    At the end of the day, neither will vote for Hillary, except perhaps if Trump declares he’s going to round up all Mooslims, Jews, liberals, first-born, and Bernie supporters, and put them in camps (“Trump macht frei, baby”) — and even then, Hillary is just like Trump, so Johnson or Stein or Trump will get their vote.

    But as Shakespeare or someone else said, you gotta do what you gotta do.

  287. 287
    SFAW says:

    @SFAW:

    “y’all are assholes for not treating Bernie-or-bust-ers better …”

    FTFM

  288. 288
    Padraig says:

    Whelp, that’s it. I’m handing in my notice. I voted Bernie in March, will vote Hillary in November, and never got angry at anyone who’s getting absurd over the primary.

    But this thread tears it.

    Bernie has the support of 40% of the party for a reason. We’re not some small bloc of radicals, we’re the future of the party. We agree with you on 90% of everything, and 100% of everything that matters. But Balloon-Juice is now turning from being pro-Hilz (yay!) to bring anti-Bernie(boo!): from being anti-Bernie-Bro to anti Bernie-supporter.

    You are very smart and savvy, much wiser than us idiot dreamers, no doubt. But you are basically purity trolls for moderation at this point, and I can’t keep reading this shit.

    Peace, love and progress, BJ – see you after the convention, when we can focus on beating Trump.

  289. 289
    SFAW says:

    @Padraig:

    from being anti-Bernie-Bro to anti Bernie-supporter.

    I think you’re wrong about this particular part, but I understand your frustration (although not sure that’s the best word) with a lot of the back-and-forth here.

    Be well.

  290. 290
    maryQ says:

    Not surprised that a guy who doesn’t think that black votes matter should ignore a black president.

  291. 291
    El Caganer says:

    @Adam L Silverman: …and Winston Smith.

  292. 292
    El Caganer says:

    @tybee: “…and I would have gotten away with it, too, except for those meddling BJers and that stupid dog…”

  293. 293
    D58826 says:

    @Jonathan Holland Becnel: Then go away and vote for Trump

  294. 294
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @efgoldman: Back in the 70s & early 80s I reviewed books freelance for a major metropolitan newspaper (more accurately, a minor metropolitan fishwrap with delusions of adequacy), in the process becoming adept at performing redundant figurative colostomies on various scribblers of bad SF & “mindcandy” (a friend’s apt term for Bourneish harumscarum).

    I did this for one author & thought nothing of it at the time. About a year later my editor handed me this fellow’s next book & said, I’m not asking you to review this but you might find it, um interesting. The name of first character killed off in the book was a barely-Cubanized version of my own.

    I didn’t read further–it wasn’t that interesting–but I wonder if later victims were also changes rung on reviewers who had savaged his earlier tome. At any rate it seemed an appropriate way of getting back at one’s critics…

  295. 295
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Jonathan Holland Becnel: thanks for that!

  296. 296
  297. 297
    gwangung says:

    @Padraig:

    Bernie has the support of 40% of the party for a reason. We’re not some small bloc of radicals, we’re the future of the party. We agree with you on 90% of everything, and 100% of everything that matters. But Balloon-Juice is now turning from being pro-Hilz (yay!) to bring anti-Bernie(boo!): from being anti-Bernie-Bro to anti Bernie-supporter.

    Well, I think it’s quite possible to be for Sanders’ stand on issues, and against Sanders as a candidate and politician.

  298. 298

    The strategy – which is unprecedented, and this is where we’re talking about thinking outside the box – is to have a president who actually, vigorously goes around the country and rallies the American people, who are in favor of this idea.

    It worked for Reagan; he was able to use charisma and popular pressure to move Congress to the right. Come to that, it worked for FDR — fireside chats. I don’t think Sanders will be President, but if he made it, it might work for Sanders.

    Still say that the best likely outcome is for Clinton to win, the Republicans to collapse, and the Sanders Democrats to form a new party on the left.

  299. 299
    HelloRochester says:

    @Anne Laurie- take a deep breath for christ’s sake. Hillary is a horrible campaigner (not a horrible person- a horrible campaigner) and saddled with so much baggage (most of it undeserved) that having Bernie out there just keeps her from stepping on her own gigantic dick. Bernie isn’t gonna Nader the whole thing and she should focus on not Al Gore-ing, either.

  300. 300
    Original Lee says:

    @Carl W: There are six, I think? Mary Poppins, Mary Poppins Comes Back, Mary Poppins Opens the Door, Mary Poppins in the Park, Mary Poppins in Cherry Tree Lane, Mary Poppins and the House Next Door. I’ve only read three, but now I’m looking at the omnibus paperback on Amazon.

  301. 301
    Carl W says:

    @Original Lee: Wikipedia counts 8, but I’m not sure if _Mary Poppins from A to Z_ (an alphabet book?) and _Mary Poppins in the Kitchen_ (includes recipes) include enough “Mary Poppins” content to count. (I think I’ve read the first 4; not sure if I’ve even seen the others.)

  302. 302
    Original Lee says:

    @Carl W: I think Wiki is including those two, or maybe also the “Disney” storybooks. Anyway, I’m ordering the omnibus paperback for future mental health day consumption.

  303. 303
    Little Sonny's Bubbie says:

    @Mnemosyne: According to Wikipedia, “[Carl] Laemmle remained connected to his home town of Laupheim throughout his life, providing financial support to it and also by sponsoring hundreds of Jews from Laupheim and Württemberg to emigrate from Nazi Germany to the United States in the 1930s, paying both emigration and immigration fees, thus saving them from the Holocaust.”

  304. 304
    Socraticsilence says:

    I mean Bernie’s lost a lot of appeal but honestly not keeping OFA rolling into 2009 and essentially running a permanent campaign was a mistake– if we had just kept attacking and kept the momentum going– letting people “be the change” I think the ACA would have passed sooner and we could have limited losses in 2010.

  305. 305
    SFAW says:

    @Carl W:

    Did Wikipedia also include some of Travers’s lesser-known ones, such as Mary Poppins Meets Freddy Kruger, Mary Poppins and the Umbrella of Doom, and Mary Poppin-Fresh and the Battle of Belleau Wood ?

  306. 306
    Reggie Mantle says:

    @Padraig:

    Bernie has the support of 40% of the party for a reason. We’re not some small bloc of radicals, we’re the future of the party. We agree with you on 90% of everything, and 100% of everything that matters. But Balloon-Juice is now turning from being pro-Hilz (yay!) to bring anti-Bernie(boo!): from being anti-Bernie-Bro to anti Bernie-supporter.

    Bravo, sir. Bravo.

  307. 307
    Carl W says:

    @SFAW: (clicking on the edit button…) It does now!

    (Just kidding… I like Wikipedia far too much to vandalize it.)

  308. 308
    SFAW says:

    @Carl W:

    (clicking on the edit button…) It does now!

    And you have the thanks of a grateful nation. It is self-sacrificing stalwarts such as yourself who keep the massive series of tubez (i.e., the Intertubez) unclogged, so that kitten pictures can be shared nationwide. Or something like that.

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