Brown’s Statement

shrill

Not sure how much impact this will have on the race in California, but Jerry Brown has weighed in:

On Tuesday, June 7, I have decided to cast my vote for Hillary Clinton because I believe this is the only path forward to win the presidency and stop the dangerous candidacy of Donald Trump.

I have closely watched the primaries and am deeply impressed with how well Bernie Sanders has done. He has driven home the message that the top one percent has unfairly captured way too much of America’s wealth, leaving the majority of people far behind. In 1992, I attempted a similar campaign.

For her part, Hillary Clinton has convincingly made the case that she knows how to get things done and has the tenacity and skill to advance the Democratic agenda. Voters have responded by giving her approximately 3 million more votes – and hundreds more delegates – than Sanders. If Clinton were to win only 10 percent of the remaining delegates – wildly improbable – she would still exceed the number needed for the nomination. In other words, Clinton’s lead is insurmountable and Democrats have shown – by millions of votes – that they want her as their nominee.

But there is more at stake than mere numbers. The Republican nominee, Donald Trump, has called climate change a “hoax” and said he will tear up the Paris Climate Agreement. He has promised to deport millions of immigrants and ominously suggested that other countries may need the nuclear bomb. He has also pledged to pack the Supreme Court with only those who please the extreme right.

The stakes couldn’t be higher. Our country faces an existential threat from climate change and the spread of nuclear weapons. A new cold war is on the horizon. This is no time for Democrats to keep fighting each other. The general election has already begun. Hillary Clinton, with her long experience, especially as Secretary of State, has a firm grasp of the issues and will be prepared to lead our country on day one.

Next January, I want to be sure that it is Hillary Clinton who takes the oath of office, not Donald Trump.

With respect,

Jerry Brown

Meanwhile, the last sane man, Paul Krugman, fights on:

This is my fifth presidential campaign as a New York Times columnist, so I’ve watched a lot of election coverage, and I came into this cycle prepared for the worst. Or so I thought.

But I was wrong. So far, election commentary has been even worse than I imagined it would be. It’s not just the focus on the horse race at the expense of substance; much of the horse-race coverage has been bang-your-head-on-the-desk awful, too. I know this isn’t scientific, but based on conversations I’ve had recently, many people — smart people, who read newspapers and try to keep track of events — have been given a fundamentally wrong impression of the current state of play.

And when I say a “wrong impression,” I don’t mean that I disagree with other people’s takes. I mean that people aren’t being properly informed about the basic arithmetic of the situation.

Now, I’m not a political scientist or polling expert, nor do I even try to play one on TV. But I am fairly numerate, and I assiduously follow real experts like The Times’s Nate Cohn. And they’ve taught me some basic rules that I keep seeing violated.

First, at a certain point you have to stop reporting about the race for a party’s nomination as if it’s mainly about narrative and “momentum.” That may be true at an early stage, when candidates are competing for credibility and dollars. Eventually, however, it all becomes a simple, concrete matter of delegate counts.

That’s why Hillary Clinton will be the Democratic nominee; she locked it up over a month ago with her big Mid-Atlantic wins, leaving Bernie Sanders no way to overtake her without gigantic, implausible landslides — winning two-thirds of the vote! — in states with large nonwhite populations, which have supported Mrs. Clinton by huge margins throughout the campaign.

And no, saying that the race is effectively over isn’t somehow aiding a nefarious plot to shut it down by prematurely declaring victory. Nate Silver recently summed it up: “Clinton ‘strategy’ is to persuade more ‘people’ to ‘vote’ for her, hence producing ‘majority’ of ‘delegates.’” You may think those people chose the wrong candidate, but choose her they did.

I feel his pain. I miss Shrillblog.






445 replies
  1. 1
    chopper says:

    not that sanders was going to win CA, but brown basically just put a few nails in the coffin.

  2. 2

    Bernie Sanders sideshow needs to end soon. Trump with nuclear launch codes is no laughing matter. I don’t care how much Hillary shouts or that she has a hair helmet. Trump and BS screech and wag their finger in your face and both have even worse hair.

  3. 3
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    I think back to the now-ancient UPS ad campaign revolving around the question What can Brown do for you? If you’re HRC (or for that matter, BS) you have the answer.

  4. 4
    Tom Levenson says:

    The comments over at DKos from Bernistas on Brown’s comment would be hilarious if they weren’t so bloody stupid.

  5. 5
    Davis X. Machina says:

    A man who spent part of his stump speech in two presidential campaign cycles talking up the Mondragon cooperative movement doesn’t endorse Bernie…

    Should have been a slam-dunk

  6. 6
    Mike J says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: One week from tomorrow Clinton will cross 2026. It will be interesting to see how Sanders justifies spending the money to campaign in DC which is not very demographically friendly to his mayonnaise on Wonder bread campaign.

  7. 7
    Mike J says:

    @Mike J: Err, one week from today. It’s almost as if I’m missing a day out of this week already.

  8. 8
    Miss Bianca says:

    @srv: *Brad Thor* said that?

  9. 9

    Brown’s statement is the least endorsey endorsement I’ve ever read. It’s mostly “the people have spoken, Hillary is fine, just end this already.”

  10. 10
    ruemara says:

    But she’s female and winning with the wrong (lesser) people, so really, Sanders is the winner. Plus, she’s about to be convicted of a crime that became a crime after she left office, plus espionage. WAKE UP SHEEPLE!

  11. 11
    gogol's wife says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    I thought he was carefully trying not to offend Sanders supporters. It’s time for them to get on board.

  12. 12
    Bob In Portland says:

    The last time I featured former Watergate reporter Carl Bernstein on these pages, it was to showcase his delivery of messages he received from the White House, to the effect that the “White House” thought Clinton was blowing it with her Wall Street speeches stance, and because of that, the “White House” was freaking out (to put it colloquially) — at least as Bernstein tells it.

    Here’s part of what Bernstein — a Clinton supporter — said last February (my transcript and emphasis; video at the link):
    Bernstein: There is a huge story going on. I’ve spent part of this weekend talking to people in the White House. They are horrified at how Hillary Clinton is blowing up her own campaign.

    And they’re worried that the Democrats could blow — they are horrified that the whole business of the transcripts, accepting the money — that she could blow the Democrats’ chance for White House. They want her to win. Obama wants her to win.

    But Sanders has shown how vulnerable she is. These ethical lapses have tied the White House up in knots. They don’t know what to do. They’re beside themselves. And now, you’ve got a situation with these transcripts a little like Richard Nixon and his tapes that he stonewalled on and didn’t release.
    Note the insider tone and access. I’m not writing a hit piece on Clinton; I’m showing this to make a more general point — that Carl Bernstein carries messages from the White House to the public, from Valerie Jarrett perhaps, or someone else just a step removed from the president, and Bernstein is clearly speaking with Team Obama’s permission (and likely encouragement). Which has to mean, with President Obama’s permission.

    In other words, this isn’t reportorial digging-and-revealing; this is White House messaging delivered via an intermediary. Read Bernstein as the White House speaking.

    In that context, listen to the current “White House” message about the Clinton campaign via Bernstein and video at the top (my italics):
    Bernstein: The implications of all of this [the email server issue] are that Hillary Clinton did not want her emails subjected to the Freedom of Information Act or subpoenas from Congress. And that’s why she set up a home-brew server.

    I think we all know that. People around her will tell you that in private if you really get them behind a closed door.

    I was in Washington this week, I spoke to a number of top Democratic officials and they’re terrified, including people at the White House, that her campaign is in free fall because of this distrust factor. Indeed, Trump has a similar problem, but she’s the one whose numbers are going south.

    And the great hope in the White House, as well as the Democratic leadership and people who support her, is that she can just get to this convention, get the nomination — which they’re no longer 100% sure of — and get President Obama out there to help her, he’s got a lot of credibility, it’s an election that’s partly about his legacy.

    But she needs all the help she can get because right now her campaign is in huge trouble…
    – See more at: http://downwithtyranny.blogspo.....C53MG.dpuf

  13. 13
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    I think that’s the patented Jerry Brown cranky white man thing. Jerry is tired of your BS and just wants you to quit yer bitchin’.

  14. 14
    Miss Bianca says:

    @srv: I’m starting to wonder if he thinks he’s living in one of his books…

  15. 15
    Bob In Portland says:

    Local reporting from California indicates that the fifteen point lead that Clinton had three weeks ago has evaporated and that the momentum is all with Sanders.

    So Clinton will win the nomination with New Jersey delegates and lose California. Balloon Juice owns her. Enjoy.

  16. 16
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Bob In Portland:

    The people who hate Hillary Clinton and desperately want her to fail are putting up posts about how she’s already failed and can’t possibly win? Who’d’a thunk it!

  17. 17
    Bob In Portland says:

    @Mnemosyne: I’m not saying that she won’t win. She probably will. Win the nomination, win the election in November. And then Wall Street and the Cold Warriors will win. And she will go down in history as the candidate who finally killed the Democratic Party.

  18. 18
    C.S. says:

    @gogol’s wife:
    That was exactly my impression as well. If he said anything genuinely nice about Clinton, the loudest Sanders supporters would have just immediately written it off as an example of the fix being in, and would have set about concocting some arcane theory about how DWS has Brown over a barrel or something.

    If a guy’s about to jump off a bridge because he lost his job, you don’t talk him down by rhapsodizing about how great the guy’s boss is, what a wonderful job it was, and how maybe they were right to fire him.

  19. 19
    Bob In Portland says:

    Shouldn’t that picture of Krugman be labelled “Shill”?

  20. 20
    chopper says:

    @Bob In Portland:

    clinton voters are committing suicide by the thousands outside the gates of sacramento!

  21. 21
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    The only endorsement I really remember as significant was Ted Kennedy’s endorsement of Obama, and I think there were a lot of factors that made that a special case. I can’t think of anyone who carries that kind of weight, on the left or right. Cheney’s and Dole’s backing of Trump were non-events, Poppy and Dummy’s non-endorsements were pretty non-eventful. I have to think back to Moynihan’s endorsement of Bradley, which was more piling on Al Gore (IMHO) than doing a lot for Bradley.

    Krugman makes a point about something that’s been driving me nuts: The whole “Bernie could win California!” hysteria is driven by one poll. Not that that means it couldn’t happen, but obsessive coverage given to it, from the faux-concern of the Village to the triumphant cheerleading of the Huffington Post is driving me nuts.

  22. 22
    RandomMonster says:

    Brown’s endorsement is big. He’s hugely popular here in California, in like the 70%+ approval range. And I disagree that his endorsement is ‘lukewarm’ or whatever the Post is saying — he’s trying to offer an olive branch to the Sandernistas.

  23. 23
    dmsilev says:

    @Tom Levenson: But the photos of bizarre buses posted in response are always amusing.

    (dKos Clinton fans have coopted the Bernie folks”throwing someone under the bus” whenever someone fails to be sufficiently pro-Bernie. By now, it’s a very very big bus.)

  24. 24
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @Boob In Putinland: Still not dead? Quel dommage.

  25. 25
    Humdog says:

    @Bob In Portland: if she kills the Democratic Party, won’t that make Hillary your hero?

  26. 26
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Bob In Portland: Yeah, she’ll…kill the Democratic Party by winning the election. Or something.

    Meanwhile Senator Sanders will retreat to the bankbenches of the Senate and his vast purity and his wife’s golden parachute from the college she bankrupted and keep yelling about how corrupt the system is. That ought to be fun for you.

  27. 27
    Bob In Portland says:

    Maybe H. Clinton will have as much success in California as she did in Washington and Oregon. With one exception, all the high-end muckity mucks of the Party endorsed Clinton in Oregon. She lost by about ten points. Similar results at the Washington State caucuses.

  28. 28

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: 538 gives that poll a 2/5 on the relevance scale, too.

    The other thing people fail to note is that it DOESN’T MATTER if he wins California!

  29. 29
    Mike in DC says:

    Trump’s path to victory essentially requires the most racially polarized electorate, well, ever. He needs 2/3 of the white vote in order to overcome the fact he’s going to get about 15% of the nonwhite vote. He might even need 70%, which would be the largest recorded share in modern history.

  30. 30
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @Bob In Portland:

    And she will go down in history as the candidate who finally caused all the Boobs in Putinland to kill themselves in despair.

    FTFY, fuckhead. (And a grand day that will be.)

  31. 31
    Chyron HR says:

    @Bob In Portland:

    Clinton will lose California.

    Maybe not in votes, but in spirit, and isn’t that what really matters?

  32. 32
    gene108 says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    The whole “Bernie could win California!” hysteria is driven by one poll.

    Even if he wins CA, he will not clinch the nomination.

    He’s just wasting time that Hillary and more importantly Team Obama could be using to bash Trump and the down ticket Republicans.

  33. 33
  34. 34
    Mathguy says:

    @srv: I mistakenly bought one of that idiot’s books thinking it might be entertaining. Given the xenophobia and racism in his books, I’m surprised he’s not out stumping for Drumpf.

  35. 35
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Major Major Major Major: except that it will feed Bernie’s ego, his followers paranoia and delusion, and MSM concern trolling (just caught Christ Lansing trying to argue with Barney Frank that Bernie has a point about the ‘rules committee’)

  36. 36
    Mary G says:

    Jerry and Bill Clinton had a very rough relationship stemming from the 1992 primary, in which Jerry played the Bernie Sanders role, so the fact that he endorsed Hillary at all is a BFD.

  37. 37
    Reggie Mantle says:

    @gogol’s wife:

    It’s time for them to get on board.

    Simply demanding that they fall in line isn’t going to do it.

  38. 38
    dmsilev says:

    The latest talking point/spin/desperate attempt by the Sanders campaign is (unsurprisingly) really stupid. “Superdelegates don’t vote until the convention, so it’s not actually over even after the last primary.”

    Except, of course, that in all of the primary campaigns run under the current system, the superdelegates have endorsed the winner of the pledged delegates, and have done so essentially as soon as someone clears a majority of pledged. I expect Sanders to keep pushing this point for the next week, only to find very quickly post-June 8th that none of the supers will be interested in talking with him. I’m sure people will be willing to wait until the DC primary on the 14th, but after that if he’s still trying to make a go of it, expect everyone from Barack Obama on downward to publicly tell him it’s over.

  39. 39
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Mike in DC:

    Romney got 62 percent of the white male vote and 54 percent of the white female vote and he still lost by a large margin. I still need people to explain which Obama states will flip to Trump to gain the win.

  40. 40
    VFX Lurker says:

    Not sure how much impact this will have on the race in California…

    Early voting and Vote-By-Mail has been going on for at least two weeks now, so he has missed a number of votes. I mailed in my vote for HRC last week. However, his endorsement may catch those sitting on the fence until June 7th.

    On a side note, if anyone else here is from Glendale, California, please vote No on Measure N. It’s a Tea Party effort to repeal a 43-year-old utility user’s tax that provides the third-largest source of funding for our fine city. If it goes through, we will lose police, firefighters, libraries and other essential city services.

    Say “no” to N!

  41. 41
    liberal says:

    @Uncle Cosmo: Well, she did champion the disastrous decision to topple Qaddafi (of course, many who comment here are so fucking stupid they don’t understand why it was disastrous), and she did mumble crazy talk about establishing no-fly zones in Syria (a sovereign state with a nuclear-armed benefactor).

    Hopefully she won’t be a lot more hawkish than Obama.

  42. 42
    Reggie Mantle says:

    @srv:

    I’ve seen Brad Thor speak. I’ve also seen him berate fellow writers in panel “discussions.” The man’s a raging asshole.

  43. 43

    @VFX Lurker: I can’t for the life of me even begin to imagine that we might have somebody from Glendale here.

  44. 44
    Mike in DC says:

    @liberal:

    What, Mjolnir can’t do that job all by itself?

  45. 45
    CONGRATULATIONS! says:

    Local reporting from California indicates that the fifteen point lead that Clinton had three weeks ago has evaporated and that the momentum is all with Sanders.

    @Baghdad Bob In Putin’s Ass: “Local reporting”, eh? Sources! Links! You don’t have them because, if anything, the opposite is happening.

  46. 46
    Mike in DC says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    So, if the electorate is 67% white and 33% nonwhite, and Trump gets 70% of white men and 60% of white women, but only 15% of non whites, he can still lose the popular vote by a point or two.

  47. 47
    Mnemosyne says:

    @liberal:

    I’m still waiting for someone to present a case for why letting Gadaffi use mercenaries to slaughter his own people would have worked out better for everyone than getting rid of the guy. “No win situation” is what we were looking at there pretty much no matter what.

    And if you think our former Secretary of State doesn’t understand that no-fly zones in Syria would only happen with Russian cooperation, you’re an even bigger idiot than I thought.

  48. 48
    Doug R says:

    @Bob In Portland: So you’re ignoring the Washington state mail in”what if” primary which counts votes, not pushy shouty people then? Because Hillary got MORE votes than Bern there.

  49. 49
    Germy Shoemangler says:

    @Mary G: I remember the 1992 debate when Bill Clinton and Jerry Brown were on stage together. One of the few times I saw Bill lose his cool. I think it was in response to something Jerry said about Hillary; I don’t remember what. Bill snapped “You come here in your Armani suits and your family money” etc. etc. and Jerry looked sheepish.

    This was the ancient times before the twitter and the google and the widespread use of the intertubes, so the moment died and was not mentioned again, as far as I know. Until now.

  50. 50
    Mike J says:

    Boston Red Sox ‏@RedSox 5 minutes ago
    The #RedSox today placed Jackie Bradley Jr. on the paternity leave list. OF Rusney Castillo has been recalled from Triple-A Pawtucket.

  51. 51
    Mnemosyne says:

    @VFX Lurker:

    IIRC, the Koch brothers put those bullshit measures on local ballots everywhere they could. We’ve moved over the border to Burbank, but we probably have one here, too.

  52. 52

    @Doug R: But Bernie does well among the pushy shouty people demographic, so that’s the only one that counts. Do try to keep up.

  53. 53
    Germy Shoemangler says:

    @Mnemosyne: I am very careful with local ballots, It’s often difficult as hell to find out the real stories behind certain bullshit measures because the local press has been demoralized by layoffs or are too busy cutting and pasting national news or whatever the rotary club/chamber of commerce sends them.

  54. 54
    dmsilev says:

    @Major Major Major Major: He also wins in the key Avian-American demographic. Can’t forget that.

  55. 55
    Germy Shoemangler says:

    @dmsilev: I remember someone’s ex-wife on “30 Rock” who was afflicted with “Avian Bone Syndrome.” This was mentioned in passing.

  56. 56
    qwerty42 says:

    @Bob In Portland: …Win the nomination, win the election in November. And then Wall Street and the Cold Warriors will win. And she will go down in history as the candidate who finally killed the Democratic Party.
    Bob, isn’t that a bit lurid? I mean, we have parts of the Republican Party convinced Trump will kill their party, and now a post that Hillary will do the same to the Democrats? What are you even talking about? You don’t like Hillary, so obviously the sky will fall? And it will be at the hands of “Wall Street and the Cold Warriors”? Cripes, isn’t Cobra Commander involved? Even a little bit?
    And really, “cold warriors”? So it’s all Checkpoint Charlie and Berlin? Really? That is … past. Evocative, I have to grant, but past. I don’t agree with either the militaristic foreign policies of left or right, but this is a habit or policy that goes back to WW2 and became sharply focused during the Truman administration (and especially in the meetings with SOS Marshall, UnderSec Acheson and Congressional leaders). Now the concern is Africa and the Far East. But this isn’t the Cold War, and isn’t even kind of. I can’t say the militarized responses are appropriate for this, Adam probably has better thoughts on that than I would, but you seem to want to fight the battles of 50 years ago as well. Well, my 2 centavos.

  57. 57
    gogol's wife says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    You don’t think Brown’s endorsement will have an impact on the CA primary?

  58. 58
    gogol's wife says:

    @Reggie Mantle:

    They’re perfectly free to vote for Trump, or not vote at all, which is almost the same thing.

  59. 59
    Patricia Kayden says:

    I know it’s far out so polls don’t really matter, but here’s one showing Secretary Clinton beating the Vulgar Orange Yam by 10 points. I’m hoping that when President Obama starts campaigning for Secretary Clinton, her polls will soar because most of us Dems really really really love our President and want his legacy to continue.
    http://polling.reuters.com/#po.....s/LIKELY:1

  60. 60
    dmsilev says:

    @Patricia Kayden: Also of note, President Obama really doesn’t like Donald Trump and is really good at getting under Trump’s skin. And Trump’s skin is really thin (c.f. his press conference meltdown this morning).

    Stock up on popcorn.

  61. 61
    VFX Lurker says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    I can’t for the life of me even begin to imagine that we might have somebody from Glendale here.

    I know it’s a long shot, but I hope BillInGlendaleCA still lives in Glendale, CA and that he sees this post.

    @Mnemosyne:

    IIRC, the Koch brothers put those bullshit measures on local ballots everywhere they could. We’ve moved over the border to Burbank, but we probably have one here, too.

    Arcadia just shot a similar anti-UUT ballot measure (Measure A) down last April. I found a Tea Party page with a list of targeted cities on it. Not all are on the ballot this year, but it gives an idea what to expect. Anti-UUT efforts include Long Beach, Santa Monica and Pasadena. :-(

  62. 62
    Ryan Young says:

    Off topic but on the note of Presidential Politics, apparently North Korea wants to “Make America Great Again”..

  63. 63
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @qwerty42: Bob is one of those old-school unreconstructed leftists like Stephen Cohen, who has managed to move seamlessly from supporting the USSR to supporting Putin.

  64. 64
    Germy Shoemangler says:

    what’s going on over at the HuffPost?

    How to Explain the Sanders Campaign to an Idiot,
    Paul Krugman or a Clintonite in 8 Sentences

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....06250.html

  65. 65

    @Germy Shoemangler: Seth Abramson is an idiot is what’s going on. Reich linked to that one. For shame.

    I unfollowed him on FB when he was in hardcore Bernista reality-denial mode and recently undid that. Perhaps a bit too soon.

  66. 66
    liberal says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    I’m still waiting for someone to present a case for why letting Gadaffi use mercenaries to slaughter his own people would have worked out better for everyone than getting rid of the guy.

    Uh, because there was no evidence whatsoever that he would slaughter his own people in large numbers?

    You know what they call people like you who fall for wartime propaganda? “Stupid fucks.”

    Please tell me how your decision criterion leads to us toppling Qaddafi but not Saddam, you fucking war-loving ignoramus.

  67. 67
    Millard Filmore says:

    Related to Paul Krugman’s arithmetic, here is a nice blogger at “http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/” who does follow numbers closely. In one of the comment areas he toots his own horn:

    “Yes, I said I did not expect Trump to contest the first primary and that he would drop out. tz – we have heard that WAS Trump’s plan in June when he joined the contest. At that time it WAS what Trump wanted to do, what I wrote I thought he was doing. But if you remember, tz, I was LITERALLY one of the first on the planet to say, wait, Trump could win it – in AUGUST of last summer. Almost nobody else said it back then. I calculated it for you and said, wait, Trump could actually win it. And from that point on – where EVERYBODY had to change their minds about Trump’s chances – I was literally among the first. You will not find ten pundits or experts writing in August who said Trump could win it, but I did on this blog. So don’t come here saying I was clueless and lost about Trump. I saw EXACTLY what was his actual PLAN, and before Trump himself had thought he could win it – I said so on this blog.”

  68. 68

    @liberal:

    You fucking war-loving ignoramus.

    I forget, are you one of the ones who tells us Hillary supporters need to be nice to Bernie supporters?

  69. 69
    liberal says:

    @Patricia Kayden: FWIW, Sam Wang had a post the other day claiming that polls this time of year are the least informative. (Yes, less informative than older polls, too.)

    Not that I’m knocking polls showing Hillary’s doing well. (Most of the national polls I see bandied about right now are discussed as doing the opposite.)

  70. 70
    bystander says:

    If only Hitlery hadn’t put that potion in Obummer’s malt liquor, she would never have gotten her way in offing Qaddafi. And all because she wanted his wardrobe to wear when she stole the WH from Sanders.

  71. 71
    DCF says:

    Nobody knows
    http://avedoncarol.blogspot.co.....knows.html
    No, I Won’t Work for Hillary Clinton: A Response to Robert Reich
    http://www.commondreams.org/vi.....bert-reich

    To work for Hillary Clinton would be to put aside principled stands in support of campaign finance reform, for instance, or against American aggression overseas, in favor of a candidate who has repeatedly been on the wrong side.

    So I will continue to support Bernie Sanders and the movement he has sparked both because I believe it is the right thing to do, and because I refuse to fall in line behind a candidate who has, in just the past few months, repudiated basic standards of transparency, belittled those who fight for ambitious social agendas, turned her back on single-payer health care, courted Republican donors, accepted campaign contributions from Wall Street and the fossil fuel industry, and attacked the core argument against the Supreme Court’s disastrous Citizens United decision.
    I will also happily join Robert Reich in the fight against Donald Trump. His ignorance is terrifying and his bigotry is reprehensible.
    But I will not endure lectures on how refusing to support Hillary Clinton—a candidate who embodies the right turn of the Democratic Party that has had such devastating effects on the same people Clinton now claims to be fighting for—is, in effect, the equivalent of supporting Trump. It clearly isn’t.
    As for Reich’s concerns about the future of the Democratic Party, well, I’m with Michelle Alexander: “I hold little hope that a political revolution will occur within the Democratic Party without a sustained outside movement forcing truly transformational change. I am inclined to believe that it would be easier to build a new party than to save the Democratic Party from itself.

  72. 72
    liberal says:

    @Major Major Major Major: No. I’m one of the ones telling you that it’s possible to hold the following propositions in your head, simultaneously (well, many commenters here aren’t intelligent enough to do that, but here goes):
    1. Hillary is horrible
    2. Trump is Cthulhu, and as such is orders of magnitude worse than Hillary
    3. Yes, indeed, Bernie cannot now win the nomination
    4. Hillary should be supported in the general

  73. 73
    liberal says:

    @bystander: Yawn.

  74. 74
    Reggie Mantle says:

    @gogol’s wife:

    So make up your mind. Should nearly 10 million Bernie supporters “get on board” or should all of them just fuck off?

  75. 75

    @liberal: cool, just making sure.

    That Wang piece was interesting wasn’t it? Definitely extinguished my hair.

  76. 76
    Chyron HR says:

    Don’t get mad, Berniefriends, just send Krguman and Brown non-threatening comments like “I know where your children/grandchildren go to school”. That’s how you’re supposed to deal with establishment shills like them.

  77. 77
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @DCF: Nonsense. Not voting for Secretary Clinton in November is equivalent to supporting Trump — either directly by voting for him or indirectly by default by not voting for Clinton. There are only two people who will get the chance to be President in November. Jesus, Gandhi and Dr. King are not on the ballot so you have to choose between Trump or Clinton. This is not rocket science.

    As Anne and John have said over and over again, Secretary Clinton’s flaws aren’t so overwhelming that our side gets to sit out the next election. She will do just fine as President and we can continue to push her to the Left during her Presidency which is something we could never do with Trump.

  78. 78
    liberal says:

    @qwerty42:

    But this isn’t the Cold War, and isn’t even kind of.

    LOL. We got very, very lucky that Obama was elected in 2008, given how crazy McCain is, and his campaign’s ties to Georgia.

    And have you read any statements by Breedlove, until recently Nutjob-in-Chief of NATO?

  79. 79
    Poopyman says:

    @Millard Filmore: That has a certain Trumpian vibe to it. Makes one wonder.

  80. 80
    DCF says:

    @Patricia Kayden:
    Notice the writer said ‘…[not} work for…’, rather than ‘…[not] vote for…’….

    Words (and comprehension) matter. Enough said….

  81. 81

    @Reggie Mantle:

    “So make up your mind. Should nearly 10 million Bernie supporters ‘get on board’ or should all of them just fuck off?”

    One or the other. Their choice.

  82. 82
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Bob In Portland: So? Why do you care about the Democratic Party? Doesn’t seem like it’s a political party for you anyways. Secretary Clinton as President will not destroy my Democratic Party.

  83. 83
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: It’s all about the horse race with the vermin of the Village. They have to keep the narrative alive, no matter what the facts are.

  84. 84
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @VFX Lurker: I did see this post, I’m voting NO on N and I’ve talked the wife into doing the same(she still thinks it’ll win based on yard sign polling). Even our Republican friend we had dinner with on Sunday thought measure N was a bad idea(he’s not from Glendale).

  85. 85
    El Caganer says:

    @Michael Bersin: Why not both?

  86. 86
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:

    @Reggie Mantle:

    If you don’t care about Trump being president, then there’s really nothing more to say to any of you, except fuck off.

  87. 87
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @DCF: Quote any part of the linked article where the author states that he plans to vote for Clinton in November. I read the entire article and nothing in it suggests that Jake Johnson is going to vote for Secretary Clinton in November. My reading comprehension is doing just fine, thank you.

  88. 88
    DCF says:

    @liberal:
    Cognitive dissonance is not well-tolerated within the BJ commentariat. With that in mind, here is a candid evaluation of the racist meme(s) used against the Sanders campaign from the beginning:
    http://avedoncarol.blogspot.co.....knows.html

    The moment Bernie Sanders announced his candidacy, the entire press corps started singing in unison a talking point that they were obviously repeating directly from the Clinton campaign: “Bernie Sanders doesn’t connect with people of color.”
    That’s how I knew from the start that the Clinton campaign was going to use racism to undermine a man whose support for black civil rights goes seamlessly back from the 1960s (a time when Clinton was supporting Goldwater), right up to the present. (The real disparity is that, though young black people have a slight preference for Sanders, they are less likely to vote than their white counterparts.)
    The “doesn’t connect with people of color” story is veiled but implies a racism that isn’t there: Sanders doesn’t hang out with a lot of black people, Sanders moved to a white state, Sanders wins white states, and on and on and on – from which we are meant to infer that maybe what’s behind Sanders is that perhaps he doesn’t really like black people very much, and that the Democrats who like Sanders might not like black people much, either. It was also a way to make his black supporters invisible, the same way the BernieBros meme was meant to make his female supporters invisible (as a similar Clinton campaign meme did in ’08). So you never see much in the press about how support for Sanders among male millenials is nothing compared to Sanders’ support from young women, and you don’t hear about it when numerous black and Latino-dominated groups endorse Sanders, nor when America’s oldest black magazine endorses him. The suggestion, of course, is that only sexist men and whites like Sanders, because they just don’t care about racism or sexism.
    Neoliberals, like their plantation-owning ancestors, love to use racism and sexism to divide people, and this is a great example of how they do it. When Clinton says “If we break up the big banks, will that end racism? Will that end sexism?” she isn’t just pointing out that “not everything is an economic theory,” she is actually pitting economic justice against social justice, as if the two weren’t very much a part of the same thing. She doesn’t want you to think about how white racism is constantly encouraged and used to break up joint efforts by whites and blacks together to get economic justice. And she also doesn’t want you to ask whether Too Big To Fail banks should be allowed to continue to suck away the wealth of the black community and impoverish women (and whites in general) whose lives are already precarious – and whether doing so can possibly do anything to ameliorate racism and sexism, either.
    Understand, the big banks stole the homes of millions of people, committed massive fraud of every kind and created the greatest financial crisis in history and were allowed to get away with it and keep doing it because they were deemed “too big to fail”, and yet Hillary Clinton can say, “If we broke up the big banks tomorrow – and I will if they deserve it, if they pose a systemic risk, I will – would that end racism?” as if their being too big and posing a threat was even in question, despite the fact that they are even bigger today than they were in 2008.
    “If”? If they pose a systemic risk? If they deserve it? Is this a joke? Thanks to Bill Clinton’s policies and Obama’s indulgence of the banksters, the black community has been losing economic ground to an even greater degree than they did under Reagan, but we’re supposed to ignore that.
    We are also supposed to ignore the fact that it is precisely because of the growing poverty of whites that resentment of black people has skyrocketed, and every time Democrats speak as if they are going to give special help to blacks or women, that resentment grows. It doesn’t grow because everyone is a racist, it grows because when they hear Democrats talking about how bad things are for black people, they know that what they really mean is, “We’re not going to help you.”
    This is why the right-wing can sell the implication that black people are getting some kind of secret welfare that whites aren’t getting, that they are giving black people a leg up while letting whites sink into poverty and die.
    But the kicker is, they’re not helping black people, either, and they’re still not going to.

  89. 89
  90. 90
    cokane says:

    Def one of the ironies of this campaign is Sanders supporters talking about how the media has it out for him. The news media — generally — has given way too much hope to the Sanders campaign. It’s def partly responsible for the delusion of his campaign. We saw this same thing in November 2012 and the thunderstruck Republicans…

    Krugman nails it. The horserace coverage just fails to inform the public on the actual score of the contest.

  91. 91

    @DCF:

    Neoliberals, like their plantation-owning ancestors,

    Drink twice!!

  92. 92
    Ultraviolet Thunder says:

    Mike;
    70mv at full power (3000W) is the max allowable SKO1.1 for installation, for that laser. If you get less than 70mv from the test LLK and the customer’s LLK you’re golden.
    It’s possible you could get low SKO by adjusting to your test LLK, then it would be high again when you plug in the customer’s LLK. If so, that’s a different problem that we have run into, and we really don’t know the cause yet. Fixing that requires alignment of the mirrors on the optical plate and possibly some dinking with the resonator. Let us know if that happens. I dunno if I can talk you through that, and you’d need more alignment fixtures.
    Cheers

  93. 93
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:

    @cokane:

    Jane Sanders was on CNN today, and not one question about their tax returns or Burlington College. They’ve gotten so many free passes it’s ridiculous.

  94. 94
    DCF says:

    @Patricia Kayden:
    Jake Johnson is male – not a she. You can’t discern the author’s gender – thus I have little (if any) confidence that your ‘comprehension’ is as acute as you maintain….
    Second…don’t make conclusions based on (your own) suppositions. I won’t be ‘working’ for the neoliberal/corporatist/never-seen-a-foreign-intervention-she-didn’t-like candidate either – but I will be voting ‘for’ (sic) her, despite the fact that I live in a very Blue (read: safe) state.

  95. 95
    Origuy says:

    S.Res.85 – A resolution strongly condemning the gross and systematic violations of human rights in Libya, including violent attacks on protesters demanding democratic reforms, and for other purposes.
    112th Congress (2011-2012)
    Applauds the courage of the Libyan people in standing up against the dictatorship of Muammar Gadhafi and for demanding democratic reforms and respect for human and civil rights.

    Condemns systematic violations of human rights in Libya, including attacks on protesters demanding democratic reforms.

    Calls on Muammar Gadhafi to desist from further violence, recognize the Libyan people’s demand for democratic change, resign his position, and permit a peaceful transition to democracy.

    Welcomes the vote of the U.N. Security Council on resolution 1970 referring the situation in Libya to the International Criminal Court (ICC), imposing an arms embargo on the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya, freezing Gadhafi family assets, and banning international travel by Gadhafi, members of his family, and senior advisors.

    Urges: (1) the Gadhafi regime to abide by Security Council Resolution 1970, and (2) the Security Council to take such further action to protect civilians in Libya from attack, including the possible imposition of a no-fly zone over Libyan territory.

    Welcomes: (1) the African Union’s (AU) condemnation of the disproportionate use of force in Libya and urges the AU to take action to address the human rights crisis in Libya, (2) the United Nations Human Rights Council’s (UNHRC) decision to recommend Libya’s suspension from the Council and urges the U.N. General Assembly to vote to suspend Libya’s rights of Council, (3) Secretary of State Clinton’s attendance at the UNHRC meeting in Geneva and urges the Council’s assumption of a country mandate for Libya that employs a Special Rapporteur on the human rights situation in Libya, and (4) U.S. outreach to Libyan opposition figures in support of an orderly transition to a democratic government in Libya.

    Passed with Unanimous Consent 3/1/2011
    The ten co-sponsors included Bernie Sanders (I-VT)

  96. 96
    gogol's wife says:

    @Reggie Mantle:

    They have to make up their own individual minds whether they want to get on board or help elect a racist, sexist, fascist. You can decide for yourself what they “should” do.

  97. 97
    DCF says:

    @Major Major Major Major:
    Reality bites, doesn’t it? But you drink up there, Hoss…it may help balm your (political) conscience, if only for a while….

  98. 98
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    you’re from Glendale??!

    Rumor has it.

  99. 99
    C.S. says:

    @liberal:

    See, now, I’m one of the ones starting to get a bit fed up with this line of thought. When your opening proposition is “Hillary is horrible,” without any qualifications whatsoever, you’ve kinda ceded the moral high ground right there. If you are so blinded by the need to maintain a cynical detachment that you willfully ignore the many and varied reasons why a liberal, progressive, informed voter would happily side with Clinton over Sanders, then let me be the first to make the Michael Corleone offer to you — nothing. The offer is nothing. No make nice. No more open arms and “we’re all on the same team” feel-goodies. Nothing. Either figure out a way to support Clinton fully and completely — no more “Hillary is horrible” starting points — or go vote for Trump, just to show us all you meant it. Go vote for Stein, because that’ll be a lesson to those who ignored you. Do it. Don’t just threaten, go ahead and do it.

    Because, see, in November, after she wins, I don’t want Clinton beholden to such preening faux-progressive narcissists as you, coming out of the woodwork howling “you only won because I held my nose and voted for you so now you have to enact all of my personal agenda before you do anything you want to do or just watch me I’ll never vote again!” I am beyond caring about courting Sanders voters because the majority of them aren’t idiots and just thought Sanders the better of two good choices, and the rest are noisy dead-enders who will always, always, always demand personal attention. There’s no point. There’s nothing to win. Oh, and also I’m sick to death of the intellectual laziness of defining “progressive” as being “closest to whatever Bernie says.”

    Now, the Clinton campaign is a hell of a lot more diplomatic than me, more pragmatic than me, and more politically astute than me, so I don’t see them endorsing my point of view any time soon. So I guess that’s one area where I’m disappointed in the Clinton campaign. But seriously — if you’re so infantile that you can’t figure out a reason to actually positively support Clinton — not just that Trump is worse but actually support her in a vacuum — then I for one do not want any part of your pity vote.

  100. 100
    Reggie Mantle says:

    @Michael Bersin:

    “So make up your mind. Should nearly 10 million Bernie supporters ‘get on board’ or should all of them just fuck off?”

    One or the other. Their choice.

    Yeah. Good luck in the general with that attitude. If Trump wins it’ll be because the Clinton camp thought that browbeating and insulting 10 million plus voters because they didn’t adore Hillary enough in the primary would be an effective strategy.

  101. 101
    Ultraviolet Thunder says:

    @Ultraviolet Thunder:
    Multitasking fail. Sorry, but not as sorry as I am for the technician that I just emailed my BJ comment to.
    He’s REALLY confused now.

  102. 102
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @C.S.: You’re mean!

  103. 103
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Ultraviolet Thunder: LMAO!

  104. 104
    bystander says:

    @liberal:

    Facts are so boring.

  105. 105
    C.S. says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Really? Might need to recalibrate. I was going for shrill . . .

  106. 106
    El Caganer says:

    @Origuy: Frankly, I think we got snookered by our allies on this one. http://archive.boston.com/bost....._in_libya/

  107. 107
    Reggie Mantle says:

    @C.S.:

    The offer is nothing. No make nice. No more open arms and “we’re all on the same team” feel-goodies. Nothing. Either figure out a way to support Clinton fully and completely — no more “Hillary is horrible” starting points — or go vote for Trump, just to show us all you meant it.

    It’s like you’re trying to lose.

  108. 108
    DCF says:

    @C.S.:
    Why Young People Are Right About Hillary Clinton
    Listening to the youth vote doesn’t always lead to disaster
    http://www.rollingstone.com/po.....n-20160325

    Young people have repudiated the campaign of Hillary Clinton in overwhelming and historic fashion, with Bernie Sanders winning under-30 voters by consistently absurd margins, as high as 80 to 85 percent in many states. He has done less well with young African-American voters, but even there he’s seen some gains as time has gone on. And the energy coming from the pre-middle-aged has little to do with an inability to appreciate political reality.
    Instead, the millions of young voters that are rejecting Hillary’s campaign this year are making a carefully reasoned, even reluctant calculation about the limits of the insider politics both she and her husband have represented.
    For young voters, the foundational issues of our age have been the Iraq invasion, the financial crisis, free trade, mass incarceration, domestic surveillance, police brutality, debt and income inequality, among others.
    And to one degree or another, the modern Democratic Party, often including Hillary Clinton personally, has been on the wrong side of virtually all of these issues.

  109. 109
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @C.S.: Only KThug and the Hillbeast can do shrill.

  110. 110
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:

    @Reggie Mantle:

    No one gives a shit here what you think, because you’re obviously an idiot.

  111. 111
    burnspbesq says:

    @liberal:

    you fucking war-loving ignoramus.

    Do you suck dicks with that filthy mouth?

  112. 112
    Itinerantpedant says:

    @Reggie Mantle: I’m not demanding that you fall in line. Do whatever the fuck you want. But don’t pretend that there’s some magic deference you’re due. Your guy has gotten 3 million less votes and over 200 less pledged delegates. At SOME point this has got to be about more than your butthurt.

  113. 113
    Trollhattan says:

    Speaking of SovietRussian interweb trolls, a Finnish journalist learned what it’s like to be a target after investigating the phenomenon.

    In September 2014 I started a crowdsourced series of stories about pro-Russia trolls, the info warriors distributing social media propaganda and influencing Finnish people.

    Instantly after publishing the first piece I was targeted by an international discrediting campaign: a famous Finnish propagandist named Johan Bäckman spread falsified information claiming that I work for the United States foreign intelligence, that I co-operate with the Nato and Estonian Security Police and that I’m tasked with building an illegal register of president Vladimir Putin’s supporters in Finland.

    Mr. Bäckman – who actively gives distorted statements on Russian state TV about Finland, Ukraine etc. and who had an active role in disinforming the public during Bronze soldier clashes in Estonia – spread disinformation about me mostly on Russian “news agency” sites, but also through his Facebook and Twitter-account.

    His goal was to lure trolls and harassers to attack me, but also to frame me as unreliable before the publication of my upcoming articles. Other Kremlin fake information distributors activated on Facebook simultaneously with Bäckman….

    By far the most sickening contact happened last spring. I received a text message from a person pretending to be my father, who died 20 years ago. My “father” told me in the message he’s not dead, but “observing me”. (I want to wish a pleasant autumn to the person, who sends such messages to journalists as a profession or hobby – I don’t envy your life one bit, just like I don’t envy the life of any professional info warrior or voluntary hate speakers).

    There were the obligatory nazi references (Vladophiles go Godwin like it’s permanently on sale at Walmart) and outing her drug use. But, they seem nice.

    Frankly, if I were in Finland I’d be nervous as hell with the current bunch in the Kremlin.

  114. 114
    Cat48 says:

    @DCF:
    I think Bernie has to take responsibility for what he actually said while campaigning. Nobody made him say that “we got rid of racism, so now we have our first black president”. Also, he said at first that all we had to do was lift everyone out of poverty & there would be no racism.

    Bernie presented himself that way. Nobody made him do it. Thus lots of people looked at him askance! He learned there was a huge problem with his message & then he changed it. Also, some don’t believe he can pull off all the free stuff he promises.

  115. 115
    Reggie Mantle says:

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne:

    No one gives a shit here what you think, because you’re obviously an idiot.

    Wow, now I REALLY want to vote for Hillary. Thanks, Citizen! I’ve totally seen the light! Your powers of persuasion have won me over!

  116. 116
    bystander says:

    @Reggie Mantle: This brings to mind the stories about little league kids losing the game but being given “Cleanest Socks” prizes to salve their inner child who wants to scream out, “No fair!”

  117. 117
    C.S. says:

    @Reggie Mantle:

    It’s like you’re trying to lose.

    Yes. That’s precisely it. I want to lose. I would rather Hillary Clinton lose the presidency to Donald Trump than spend one minute catering to idiots who think she’s objectively horrible. You’ve got me pegged. Now go register Green and vote your conscience.

  118. 118
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:

    @Reggie Mantle:

    No one fucking cares what you do. Fuck off.

  119. 119
  120. 120
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Reggie Mantle: You were never going to vote for her no matter what anyone here said.

  121. 121
    Zinsky says:

    Bernie’s campaign has highlighted and underscored many of the things I find annoying about other liberals and Democrats. One is that liberals are terrible about sticking together. I doubt you could get a group of liberals to agree the sky is blue. Some are so bloody pedantic they want to argue that the sky is, in fact, azure or mauve and not blue. The second is the fact that a significant number of liberals continue to believe in the “great man (or woman)” fallacy of governance. They think that if only we elect the right person, the sun will come out and everything will be peachy, instead of working on a cohesive set of policies. Of course, this never works and always ends in disappointment. The Republicans, on the other hand, invest their energies in promoting certain policies instead of certain people. The Democrats need to learn from them. In any case, trying to get Democrats to work together is like herding cats and it gets very freaking annoying!

  122. 122
    burnspbesq says:

    @DCF:

    Do you have any more transparently nonsensical garbage you’d like to unload here?

  123. 123
    C.S. says:

    @DCF: That’s lovely. Now go vote for Trump.

  124. 124
    Reggie Mantle says:

    @Itinerantpedant:

    Your guy has gotten 3 million less votes and over 200 less pledged delegates.

    And, at last count, that’s still nearly 10 million votes, a number which will certainly go higher after California.

    But sure, they’ll be glad to vote for Hillary after you get done calling them all Bernie Bros, telling them they’re idiots because they voted for some other candidate in the primary, telling them they deserve no consideration whatsoever because they’re not REAL Democrats, but demanding that they vote for Hillary anyway because she’s not Trump.

    You know how Hillary Clinton can lose to Trump? Keep doing exactly what you’re doing.

  125. 125
    LesBonnesFemmes says:

    @Bob In Portland: Or maybe she will win CA by eight points, just like she did eight years ago.

  126. 126
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:

    @gogol’s wife:

    So fucking done with Sanders and his special snowflake GBCW drama idiots.

  127. 127
    Bob in Portland says:

    @Doug R: Yes. A lot of people, after the caucuses, didn’t show up in the Wash primary.

    It’s sort of ass-backwards. If you’re going to hold a primary, why have a caucus? I don’t understand the logic.

  128. 128
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Reggie Mantle:

    If Trump wins it’ll be because the Clinton camp thought that browbeating and insulting 10 million plus voters because they didn’t adore Hillary enough in the primary would be an effective strategy.

    A complaint about adoring fans being registered by a Bernie Sanders supporter is kind of like a complaint about Flavor-Aid by a follower of Jim Jones.

  129. 129
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Reggie Mantle: Just because I’m a curious sort of person, paint me a picture of how Bernie Sanders supporters would be reaching out and making nice to Hillary Clinton supporters if their boy was ahead.

  130. 130
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    I’ve been seeing all day that Chris Hayes was going to interview HRC during the 4:00 pm EDT hour on MSNBC. Didn’t happen, unless it was EXACTLY during the four minutes I stopped to get gas. FYMSNBC. I wanted to hear it.

  131. 131
    Reggie Mantle says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    You were never going to vote for her no matter what anyone here said.

    Actually, that’s completely untrue. I still might. She’s taken some steps in the right direction.

    But I’m reserving judgment for the moment. You could still persuade me and millions of others to stay home. You’re all making a hell of an effort so far.

  132. 132
    Reggie Mantle says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    But as you’ve pointed out, that’s not going to happen. The ball’s in Clinton’s court now.

    Do you want to win or not? Or is it all about YOUR hurt feelings?

  133. 133
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:

    @Reggie Mantle:

    NO ONE FUCKING CARES! We don’t want or need any of you whiny ass titty babies. GO THE FUCK AWAY.

  134. 134
    Davebo says:

    @Reggie Mantle: There’s a certain irony to the entire Neo-Puma phenomenon this election cycle.

    What makes it cute is that most of them are too young to know what a Puma is!

  135. 135
    Tripod says:

    @DCF:
    @Bob In Portland:
    @liberal:

    I feel your pain.

  136. 136
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Bob in Portland:

    Yes. A lot of people, after the caucuses, didn’t show up in the Wash primary.

    Roughly 230,000 people participated in the Democratic caucus, The Stranger reported in March. In contrast, more than 660,000 Democratic votes had been tallied in the primary as of Tuesday, according to The Seattle Times. (Atlantic Monthly)

  137. 137
    patroclus says:

    @Zinsky: Well, it depends. If the sky is azure, I’m surely not gonna say it’s cobalt or royal blue! And during a sunset, if it’s mandarin orange, why the hell would I say it’s blue??!!! I mean, c’mon!!

    And, by the way, even though I support Hillz, I gotta give Bernie some props for showing up when the Warriors were trailing at halftime last night, get an ovation, and then the Warriors turned it on in the 3rd quarter and won going away!

  138. 138
    Chris says:

    @Zinsky:

    I doubt you could get a group of liberals to agree the sky is blue. Some are so bloody pedantic they want to argue that the sky is, in fact, azure or mauve and not blue.

    I plead color-blindness and invoke neutrality in this debate.

  139. 139
    Bergman says:

    The idea that people, even Bernie people, will sit out an election because someone insulted them on the internet is amusing trolling. Maybe the special Bernie snowflakes here are susceptible to that particularly infectious strain of butthurt, but I imagine the majority of them are a bit smarter than that.

  140. 140
    Itinerantpedant says:

    @Reggie Mantle: And of course if only Hillary people didn’t call you nasty names you’d have voted for the not-fascist with any chance of winning.

    Look, you want to flounce off in a huff because you and yours were dissed feel free. But don’t try and plant a weak-ass narrative that we MADE you do this and therefore not your responsibility. You want to help Trump, you get down with your bad self, but it will always be the act of a petulant troll who values his sanctimony more than the common good.

  141. 141
    C.S. says:

    @Reggie Mantle:

    . . . but demanding that they vote for Hillary anyway because she’s not Trump.

    And that’s why I’ve stopped doing it. Don’t vote for her because she’s not Trump. Either vote for her because you support her policy proposals, her stand on issues, and the other myriad reasons that leap to one’s mind, or stop demanding to be courted. Go vote for Stein. Go vote for Trump. Go vote for Johnson. Stay home. Whatever. Most Sanders supporters don’t need the roadmap, because they’re not idiots, and you don’t speak for them any more than I speak for all Hillary voters when I say either vote for Clinton without reservations or don’t vote for her at all.

  142. 142
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Zinsky: Republicans also work at getting folk elected to dogcatcher and school board right on up.

  143. 143
    burnspbesq says:

    @Reggie Mantle:

    Name one thing your lot have done to earn any solicitude from the actual Democrats who have been fighting to achieve progressive goals since before the vast majority of you were conceived.

  144. 144
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Reggie Mantle: I’m just a guy who occasionally comments on a blog. I don’t view it as my responsibility to persuade anyone by my commenting. But I’ll make it simple. In the system that exists in the US there are precisely two people who could be elected President in November. Not 3, not 10, not 100. Two. And one of those would be a disaster of historic proportions. I’m going to do my best to prevent that disaster.

    Sorry if that’s not an inspiring slogan, but that’s what I’m going to be doing. You, of course, do what you want.

  145. 145
    Reggie Mantle says:

    @Bergman:

    So, it doesn’t matter if you insult them, because it’s just the Internet.

    Isn’t the foaming rage we see from the Clinton people a direct result of “Bernie Bros” being mean to them on the Internet?

    Keep whistling past that graveyard.

  146. 146
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Reggie Mantle: Oddly enough, I don’t find that the relative dickishness of a small segment of a candidate’s supporters has very much to do with the outcome of the upcoming election. I also don’t find that extravagant hand-holding, head-patting, and feeling-soothing were ever required before Team Bernie started yelping about how everyone was so MEAN by expecting them to VOTE for someone they HATE SO MUCH and they’d better be NICE or they WONT BE YOUR FRIEND ANYMORE. Scoreboard, buddy. You get ideological respect, you don’t get special scritches behind each ear.

  147. 147
    Fair Economist says:

    @liberal:

    Well, she did champion the disastrous decision to topple Qaddafi (of course, many who comment here are so fucking stupid they don’t understand why it was disastrous),

    So, it would have been better if Libya had come out like Syria with about 100 times as many people dead? You’re behind the times, incidentally – the two sides in the civil war made peace and formed a unity government more than a month ago, and they’re currently preparing an attack on the one Daesh-controlled city.

    We had the right policy in Libya, and as a result it’s coming out far better than the cases we didn’t intervene, like Syria and Yemen.

  148. 148
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Reggie Mantle: We’ve tried to talk to you, you won’t listen.

  149. 149
    C.S. says:

    @Reggie Mantle:

    Isn’t the foaming rage we see from the Clinton people a direct result of “Bernie Bros” being mean to them on the Internet?

    No. Now go vote for Trump.

  150. 150
    Geeno says:

    Nach Trumpf, Uns!
    How’d that work out for the German communists?
    By your actions you will be known. If you want to know why Trump becomes president, look in a mirror. That’s what you’ve put behind every single comment. They all translate, “Lick my rim or Trump will win!”.
    If you can live with yourself after that – you’re no one I want in my party anyway.

  151. 151
    Reggie Mantle says:

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne:

    We don’t want or need any of you whiny ass titty babies. GO THE FUCK AWAY.

    And there you have it. The road map to a Clinton loss. Which they’ll blame on the “Bernie Bros” because they didn’t play nice and wouldn’t come like kicked dogs when the Clintonians whistled.

  152. 152
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @patroclus: Then again, the Warriors were more like the Clinton campaign(they’re the defending champs).

  153. 153
    Reggie Mantle says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    We’ve tried to talk to you, you won’t listen.

    This is your idea of “talking”? I think I see the problem.

  154. 154
    Davebo says:

    @Reggie Mantle:

    What “foaming rage” are you speaking of? Because honestly I haven’t seen it.

    At worst, some have shown contempt. Generally though what I see are people amused by it all.

  155. 155
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Reggie Mantle: How many times does the point have to be made before we presume you’re just trolling? One more time, I guess:

    If you – or any of these “10 million Sanders supporters” you cite – are really so racist, sexist, privileged or just plain stupid – pick any/all of the above – that you need your hands held and be sung lullabies to before you can be brought to realize what an unmitigated disaster for the country a Trump presidency would be – then you’re past hope. Nothing any of us says will convince you. Forget trying to convince you of Sec. Clinton’s actual *merits* – you’re not going to be able to see or understand them. So, seriously – off you fuck.

  156. 156
  157. 157
    Bergman says:

    @Reggie Mantle
    You missed the point. The point is most of them are smarter than you think they are.

  158. 158
    Trollhattan says:

    Where you want this browbeating and insulting done?
    Out on Highway 61.

    The morning of Wednesday next can’t come soon enough.

  159. 159
    patroclus says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Wouldn’t that make them more like Obama then?

    By the way, I really liked Mickey Mantle!

  160. 160
    Weaselone says:

    @Reggie Mantle:
    The vast majority of Bernie supporters are not the ones being called idiots. That’s just you and your ilk. Seriously, at better than even odds of being a white supremicist or paid ratfucker, you of all people should know that it’s ridiculous to base your support of a candidate on based on your treatment by anonymous people on the internet.

  161. 161
    Hoodie says:

    @Bergman: Are you certain that they’re all Bernie trolls, and that none of the are actually Trump trolls or general shitheels? Some of them are particularly dumb caricatures of leftists. Or perhaps they’re leftists who buy gold from Thom Hartmann.

  162. 162
    Davebo says:

    @Reggie Mantle:

    OK, I’ll give you @the Conster, la Citoyenne:

    People go overboard on the internet.

  163. 163
    Geeno says:

    @Hoodie: I’d wager Trump trolls.

    @Davebo: No, you’re being too generous there.

  164. 164
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Reggie Mantle: So because some commenters on Balloon Juice and other blogs weren’t nice to you, you’re okay with a bigot like Trump being President for four or more years and pretty much shaping the Supreme Court for the rest of our lifetime and destroying life for millions of Americans?

    This has all become insane. I remember things got heated in 2008 so I’m hoping once Senator Sanders is defeated next Tuesday, things will get back to normal on our side, i.e., sensible people will focus on defeating Trump regardless of who they supported during the primaries.

  165. 165
    Mike in DC says:

    Sanders supporters have already gotten a lot of concessions. Clinton tacked further to the left policy wise because of Sanders. The Sanders campaign has been given a significant presence on the platform committee. The Sanders campaign asked for more debates and got all but one of them. I expect that there will be more concessions and more outreach once the primaries are over. Sanders quixotic campaign to win via super delegates makes rapprochement significantly more difficult, however. The biggest concession he can make is to drop that once the primaries end. I expect that, following a private discussion with Clinton and various horse trading, Sanders will make a full throated endorsement of the Democratic nominee, and that will be that. Whether she gets 90, 95 or 98 percent of his supporters is not entirely within her control.

  166. 166

    @Reggie Mantle: If there’s any chance that you will stay home this fall because someone on a website that you went to on purpose was mean to you, I agree with everyone else: fuck you, and fuck your conscience.

  167. 167
    Reggie Mantle says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    The fact that you regard actually trying to persuade real voters with something other than stamping feet, shaking fingers, and browbeating them as “need[ing] your hands held and be sung lullabies to” is the whole problem.

  168. 168
    Fair Economist says:

    @DCF:

    For young voters, the foundational issues of our age have been the Iraq invasion, the financial crisis, free trade, mass incarceration, domestic surveillance, police brutality, debt and income inequality, among others.

    OK, Hillary’s proposing tax increases targeted solely at unearned income and affecting only the very rich. Sanders is proposing a (huge) broad-based payroll tax increase. Sanders may *talk* more about income inequality, but it’s Hillary who will do the better job improving it. Ditto for police brutality, banking system stability, improving health care, and just about anything else on the table.

  169. 169
    Splitting Image says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Romney got 62 percent of the white male vote and 54 percent of the white female vote and he still lost by a large margin. I still need people to explain which Obama states will flip to Trump to gain the win.

    New York and California. Or so I’m told.

  170. 170
    Captain C says:

    @Reggie Mantle: If you can’t do the right thing just because someone insulted you on Balloon Juice, you probably weren’t gong to do so in the first place.

  171. 171
    Geeno says:

    @Reggie Mantle: Dude – have ever WATCHED Bernie? That’s his whole shtick. Except the lullabies part.
    Listen – you know the score. Grow up or don’t.

  172. 172
    VFX Lurker says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    I did see this post, I’m voting NO on N and I’ve talked the wife into doing the same(she still thinks it’ll win based on yard sign polling). Even our Republican friend we had dinner with on Sunday thought measure N was a bad idea(he’s not from Glendale).

    Hooray! Thank you for confirming that you will vote against N.

    I sincerely hope N goes down in flames this June.

  173. 173
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Reggie Mantle: Cupcake, the only “stamping feet, shaking fingers, and browbeating” that I’ve seen is coming from…wait for it…your preferred candidate. You must be feeling very disappointed that you’re not getting more of that, so you’re wandering in here trying to provoke. Away with you, poor, poor, pitiful thing.

  174. 174
    Shell says:

    Looks like Trump just picked up an important new endorsement, North Korea!

  175. 175
    Jack the Second says:

    @Reggie Mantle: Oh, we’re happy to persuade Bernie voters. We persuade them by pointing out Hillary Clinton’s long involvement in healthcare reform and the expansion of government healthcare, her acknowledgement that her Iraq vote was a mistake, her commitment to progressive causes like abortion rights and gun control, and the almost uniform support that other progressive heroes like Barney Frank have given her.

    And then there are women-hating MRAs who happen to have supported Bernie out of their hatred of Hillary Clinton and how unmanly a strong woman makes them feel, and those guys we tell to fuck off.

  176. 176
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: Tell him how you really feel. Don’t hold back.

    We’re going to need a break from politics right after the November elections because this is going to be a long 6 months. Sigh.

  177. 177
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Reggie Mantle: I seem to get the impression that only two outcomes would make you all happy: Hillary says fuck it and lets Bernie be the nominee(he’d lose to Trump in a blow out), or Hillary just accepts all of Bernie’s platform(and that might not work, cause she’s a lying neo-liberal). If you want to re-make the Democratic Party, go for it. Get into positions within the party(do the hard work) and influence it’s positions more to your liking. OR start your own party and run candidate in local an state elections and build a base.

  178. 178
    Reggie Mantle says:

    @Luther Siler:

    If there’s any chance that you will stay home this fall because someone on a website that you went to on purpose was mean to you, I agree with everyone else: fuck you, and fuck your conscience.

    The virulence on this blog is just the symptom of a larger disease.

    You Clinton supporters hate Sanders and utterly despise anyone who supports or has supported him because they won’t just fall in line when you scream TRUMP! You don’t need their votes, they can just all fuck off…except they HAVE to vote for Hillary because TRUMP!

    Yeah. Good luck with that strategy. If anyone gives this election to Trump, it’ll be the Clinton supporters alienating anyone who might have considered changing sides, all because THEY got their “fee-fees” hurt.

  179. 179
    Davebo says:

    @Reggie Mantle:

    shaking fingers

    Extremely poorly chosen description there Reggie!

  180. 180
    LesBonnesFemmes says:

    It is beyond annoying to hear the Bernie acolytes shriek and rend their garments about what an evil person Hillary is, and how it has all been rigged, and then they have the Charles de Gaulle to demand soft music, and everybody has to be nice to them to get their support for the Democratic ticket in November. It is like Charlie and the Chocolate Factory with these folks; they are the worst children in the world, “I’m absolutely awful, but you have to be nice to me!”

  181. 181
    Captain C says:

    @Bob in Portland: Kind of like a lot of Bernie delegates didn’t even bother to show up to the state convention, yes? If this is representative of (a nontrivial subset of) Bernie backers, how can we trust them to show up at other times when the lay of the land isn’t so favorable?

  182. 182
    Fellatio Alger says:

    @Reggie Mantle: Wow. A new low in stupidity. Or, more accurately, wankery.

  183. 183
    Reggie Mantle says:

    @Fellatio Alger:

    A new low in stupidity.

    This from a guy whose handle is “Fellatio Alger.”

  184. 184
    Fellatio Alger says:

    @Miss Bianca: Of course he or she is trolling. The trolly stench is strong with this one.

  185. 185
    Gin & Tonic says:

    OT, sorta, but Bloomberg News is reporting that Bill Kristol’s crush, and the purported third-part candidate is some guy named David French, who is a staff writer for the National Review.

    No, I’ve never heard of him either. Smells like victory, doesn’t it?

  186. 186
    Monala says:

    @dmsilev: I loved the fact that after this year’s WH Correspondents’ Dinner, when Trump was asked what he thought of Obama’s comments about him, Trump said something really low-key, “yeah, it was ok, mumble, mumble.” In other words, like a beaten bully, he’s not willing to take on Obama again.

  187. 187
    Reggie Mantle says:

    @Fellatio Alger:

    Ah yes. And there it comes. The insistence that anyone not toeing the line is a troll. Easier than thinking, I guess.

  188. 188
    hovercraft says:

    @Bob In Portland:
    Obama lost California in 2008 and that meant something, right?

  189. 189
    Fellatio Alger says:

    @Reggie Mantle: I’m a troll, poley roll
    I’m a troll, po-ley roll
    I’m a troll, po-ley roll
    And I’ll eat you for sup-perrrrr

    Burt Ives song. He didn’t write it about internet cretins, though.

  190. 190
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Reggie Mantle:

    This is your idea of “talking”? I think I see the problem.

    My comments have been pretty low keyed. So yes, I’ve tried talking. The response I get is that I’m an old, out of touch, neo-liberal(not really sure what that means), warmongering Boomer. The invective works both ways. Bernie is not going to be the Democratic nominee, he’s getting a seat at the table, his issues will get an outing, he will be listened to.

  191. 191
    Monala says:

    @Doug R: Yeah, but that’s because Bernie’s supporters were smart enough to not vote in a primary that doesn’t count! (Even though something like twice as many people voted for Sanders in the primary than in the caucus).

  192. 192
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @DCF: Actually, if you look at my comment, you’ll see that I caught my error and corrected the “she” to “he”. So there is that. Otherwise, my comment was correct inasmuch as nothing in his article suggests that he will be voting for Secretary Clinton in November.

  193. 193
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:

    @Davebo:

    Don’t cape for me with that guy. I’m done with their idiotic delusional bullshit and it’s time for them to grow the fuck up.

  194. 194
    Captain C says:

    @Reggie Mantle:

    The fact that you regard actually trying to persuade real voters with something other than stamping feet, shaking fingers, and browbeating them

    In other words, the Bernie Sanders method.

  195. 195
    The Sheriff's A Ni- says:

    PUMA 2016: Just As Irrelevant As PUMA 2008

  196. 196
    Fellatio Alger says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA: He/she doesn’t give a shit about Hillary or Bernie. He or she is working hard at the art of trollery. Nothing more. Sound and fury, signifying nothing.

  197. 197
    Bob in Portland says:

    @Reggie Mantle: I am continually amazed by the villagers here at BJ. They would do better for party unity with something else, if that’s what they really want, by spending more time talking about how many tomatoes are on the vine in their backyards, or why the latest version of Warcraft is so much better than the last.

    If they want party unity they could address problems that Sanders voters have with Clinton and her history instead of their hippie punching. Alas, they are bullies at heart and so saying fuck fuck fuck, fuck Putin, you’re a misogynist and their other routine outbursts they might better explain how someone who’s gotten three billion from the wealthiest of the world’s wealthy will be fighting the good fight for the bottom 70% of the country.

    Tell us how fast we’ll get the minimum wage to 12. Tell us how she’ll make public colleges free. Tell us how she’ll decriminalize pot and end the drug war. Tell us how she’ll rein in the police. Tell us how she’ll shift some of the wealth of the country back to the bottom 70%. Tell us how she’ll keep us out of wars for oil companies.

    She’s backed by Oxycontin For All, so she’s not going to stop the drug war, and she takes money from private prisons because she thinks it’s a nifty idea. And once she’s in the Oval Office she can steer their money to friends and allies.

    In other words, the nasty little villagers here would make more headway for the candidate by telling doubters how she’ll actually change things or just stop the hippie-punching.

    I suspect that the reason why the villagers here don’t do that is because they know she’s a fraud, but since they considers themselves part of the educated class that is somewhat insulated from the excesses of neoliberalism, they’re okay with Clinton. And they can continue to be the sullen bullies they’ve always been.

    You know why lots of the world fears a Clinton presidency? Because they know she’ll have new wars. And the dicks and dickettes here know that too, so they quietly folded their hands and decided to go along with PNAC. In their quiet moments they tell themselves that Mad Albright and Henry Kissinger weren’t so bad after all, and they’ve been able to totally separate themselves from the idea that being the designated recipient of billions will have no influence on politics.

    Yes, Clinton will probably win the nomination and the election. Her coattails, thanks to Debbie Wasserman Schultz’s tailoring, will be short. We’ll get another eight years of Obama treading water while Republicans play keepaway, because she’s lost everyone under thirty, and as people examine her more closely they realize she’s a fraud of a Democrat; except for tax cuts for the wealthy and for new wars that the Republicans will get behind.

    You know what stories are running in the Russian press? They are preparing for war against the US. So the little turd here who called for an invasion of Russia because I voted for Sanders may very well get his wish. The Russians don’t trust Clinton, nor should they. Nor should anyone.

    I don’t even know if the villagers here even trust Clinton. But she’s their bastard, and they will cheer her and continue to complain about people voting in the remaining primaries.

    Anyone remember how the right-wing in this country were ready for nuclear war when it was discovered that the Russians had nukes in Cuba? Well, the US is setting up their new anti-missile system in Eastern Europe, putting NATO troops on the Russian borders, created a failed state in Ukraine, used their hand-picked NED politician in Georgia to invade Ossetia, fought a failed fifteen-year war right across from Russia’s energy pool.

    So you jackasses want a war? Elect the warmonger.

  198. 198
    Captain C says:

    @Captain C: Oops…that is, Nevada State Convention.

  199. 199
    Fellatio Alger says:

    @Reggie Mantle: Oooh. “My nym is better than your nym.” You really hurt me with that one.

  200. 200
    Reggie Mantle says:

    @Captain C:

    In other words, the Bernie Sanders method.

    And that worked?

  201. 201
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @DCF: It is true that for many of us Black voters, we prefer Secretary Clinton. Hence, most of us voted for Secretary Clinton over Senator Sanders in the primaries — I know that I did here in Maryland. There is nothing racist in saying that one candidate was able to reach out to and attract Black voters over the other candidate. That’s just the way things turned out.
    For me, I just don’t feel that Senator Sanders is tough enough to withstand the Republican mud which will be slung at him during the general election season, while I’m pretty sure that Secretary Clinton will do just fine since Republicans have been throwing mud at her for upwards of 30 years. I want a winner and Secretary Clinton will fight back tooth and nail against the Koch Brothers and Trump.

  202. 202
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Splitting Image: I’ve heard it from none other than Mark Halperin and Donald Trump, Bill Kristol hasn’t weighed in yet.

  203. 203
    El Caganer says:

    @Gin & Tonic: French has pretty much replaced Jonah Goldberg as Roy Edroso’s favorite NR target.

  204. 204
    Fellatio Alger says:

    @Bob in Portland: TL;DR

  205. 205
  206. 206
    Bob in Portland says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Your numbers are based on something you pulled out of your ass, Bill. For the last ten months Sanders does better by five to ten percent than Hillary against Republican candidates, to include Trump.

    Not to worry.

  207. 207
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @VFX Lurker: It was never in doubt that I’d vote against it, I still take pride in voting against Prop 13 in the first ballot I cast.

  208. 208
    Captain C says:

    @Reggie Mantle: Obviously not, which is why you’re projecting it onto other people.

  209. 209
    Reggie Mantle says:

    If they want party unity they could address problems that Sanders voters have with Clinton and her history instead of their hippie punching.

    I remember when hippie punching was supposed to be a BAD thing.

    But clearly, these people don’t give a damn about party unity. They’re 2008’s PUMAs ascendant. And they’re out for some payback.

  210. 210
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Bob in Portland:

    the nasty little villagers here

    You know, calling people nasty because they don’t support Sanders just shows what type of people Sanders has attracted to him. I’m glad he’s about to lose the primaries actually. He’s probably a nice guy but this campaign season hasn’t done him any favors. And neither have his supporters.

  211. 211
    Fellatio Alger says:

    @Reggie Mantle: Dude, you’re not fooling anybody. The gig is up.

  212. 212
    Davebo says:

    @Bob in Portland:

    Maybe….

    Nah, not any better in long form.

  213. 213
    Bob in Portland says:

    @Monala: Monala, you have a caucus and a primary in your state. The caucus, which allots delegates goes first. What would be anyone’s motivation for voting in a primary that doesn’t count?

  214. 214
    Reggie Mantle says:

    @Captain C: @Captain C:

    You realize that that was a total non sequitur.

    Or maybe you don’t.

  215. 215
    hovercraft says:

    @DCF:
    In the primary. But according to the most recent poll of young people by Harvard in the general they go for Hillary 2 to 1 against Trump. So while their with BS now when hillary runs ads of Trump saying global warming is a hoax perpetrated by the Chinese, I’m sure that will send her numbers even higher. And thats just one issue.
    And the media was not poisoning the well re. black and minority voters and Sanders, they were merely reporting what the polls were saying. Minorities were with her in big numbers, and the results bore the polls out.

  216. 216
    Captain C says:

    @Reggie Mantle: On the other hand, you don’t seem to realize that accusing people of doing what you (eg. Bernistas, following the lead of Himself) are actually doing yourself is in error, unproductive, and kind of funny as well. But hey, go vote for Trump, or Stein, or whoever the SWP puts up this year if it makes you feel better.

  217. 217

    @Reggie Mantle: My feelings aren’t hurt. You’re a stupid person making stupid decisions. It has nothing to do with me at all. Just like my vote has nothing to do with you.

    I’m not going to bother begging people to look past their noses. These two comments are about as much effort as you’re worth expending.

  218. 218
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:

    @Davebo:

    The fucking purity morons and their drama queen act has worn out its welcome, because there’s an actual fascist gathering his Orc army at the gates. Hard to lighten up when one side is acting like a bunch of Heathers.

  219. 219
    raven says:

    @Reggie Mantle: Go fuck yourself punk.

  220. 220
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    Away with you, poor, poor, pitiful thing.

    Yeah, Reg, go lay your head on the railroad track. One where the train still runs & will dis-Mantle you in fine fashion.

  221. 221
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Bob in Portland: You know, it’s amazing to me to realize that BJ commenters are apparently, all on their collective lonesomes, the ones who are propelling the Democratic party down its path of neoliberal DOOOOOMMM.

    It’s not like millions of other people have spoken with their votes and chosen Sec. Clinton – it’s “The Balloon Juice Villagers”. It’s not like a bunch of other people said “Free College? Yeah, how the hell is *that* supposed to happen” and decided that Sen. Sanders was kind of a dope when he couldn’t give an answer to that or even the *simplest* question about how the economic tenets of his Great and Glorious Revolution are supposed to be implemented. Or where Central America was on the map. No, it’s “The Balloon Juice villagers” who are letting everybody down by not throwing their weight behind the vanguard. I had no idea we wielded that much power!

  222. 222
    Mnemosyne says:

    @liberal:

    Oh, well, as long as Gaddafi was only having mercenaries slaughter half the people in the city and not everyone, there was no problem, amirite?

    But I’m sure that the actual words of someone who was there don’t count as “evidence” in your book, you fucking genocide apologist.

  223. 223
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Bob in Portland: Hey, Bob, have you seen this? It’s a Russian medal issued to those who participated in the campaign to “return” Crimea. From Feb 20 to March 18 of 2014. When did Yanukovych abdicate? Oh, hey, it wasn’t until Feb 22. How odd.

  224. 224
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Reggie Mantle: You could still persuade me and millions of others to stay home. You’re all making a hell of an effort so far.

    you think millions of people read this blog, much less determine their votes by what anonymous internet commenters say?

    I’m guessing you’re one of those who found the schoolhouse rock video on how a bill becomes a law too hard to follow….

  225. 225
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @DCF:

    For young voters, the foundational issues of our age have been the Iraq invasion, the financial crisis, free trade, mass incarceration, domestic surveillance, police brutality, debt and income inequality, among others.

    I have never, ever, ever heard a young person say the first word about “free trade.” And it’s been years since I’ve heard anyone care about “domestic surveillance.” And the Iraq War AUMF was 13 years ago, so I highly doubt that “young voters” are animated by anything having to do with that, either. But it’s the M.O. of a lot of 30- to 70-something Bernie Sanders supporters to smuggle in all and sundry of their own personal hobbyhorses, attribute them to the Sanders campaign, and launder them with the youth vote, in order to make it seem like A Movement.

  226. 226
    Trollhattan says:

    @Fellatio Alger:
    I think it’s “NR” repackaged–did NR get banhammered the last few days? The combination of butthurt and dripping condescension has a familiar fragrance.

  227. 227
    Fellatio Alger says:

    @Reggie Mantle: You realize you’re just a douchebag troll on the internet, right? Good. We’re cool.

  228. 228
    The Sheriff's A Ni- says:

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: Why bother? They’re irrelevant at best, and the final transformation into Drunk Uncle Racust at the worst. We can win and have won without them. Fuck ’em.

  229. 229
    Bob in Portland says:

    @Patricia Kayden: Oh, Patricia, you can do better. Go count the insults against me regarding the first post. That’s kinda nasty. Puts me in the mood to tell you neoliberals likewise. And the point of recent post remains. You, as a Clinton supporter, seem incapable of explaining how a politician who’s copped three billion from the richest of the rich is going to change the system to help the rest of us. Why is that, Patricia? Because, after going through all the fuck yous addressed to me you were insulted by me characterizing the villagers here as vile bullies incapable of carrying on a decent conversation?

    Here’s your chance Patricia. Show us why H. Clinton will change things for the better for the majority of Americans. Or, if you can’t, don’t.

  230. 230
    C.S. says:

    @Reggie Mantle:

    The road map to a Clinton loss. Which they’ll blame on the “Bernie Bros” because they didn’t play nice and wouldn’t come like kicked dogs when the Clintonians whistled.

    I don’t speak for all, but I will not blame you one whit. I just don’t want you doing the ol’ holier-than-thou, holding-your-nose-and-voting-for-lesser-of-two-evils crap. That is, hand to god, my one and only concern right now. Because when Clinton wins, I do not want to share the victory with such idiotic, infantile, progressivism-as-tribal-signal ‘liberals.’ I don’t want Clinton to feel like she owes you folks anything. So, from the bottom of my heart, I assure you that I will not blame you no matter who you vote for, no matter what the consequences, as long as you don’t claim a share of the victory.

  231. 231
    Reggie Mantle says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Calling people nasty because they don’t support Sanders just shows what type of people Sanders has attracted to him.

    I suspect “nasty” comes as a result of comments like

    A new low in stupidity. Or, more accurately, wankery.

    fuck you, and fuck your conscience.

    NO ONE FUCKING CARES! We don’t want or need any of you whiny ass titty babies. GO THE FUCK AWAY.

    etc.

    But, you know, it’s okay when you’re a Clintonite. Because some Bernie Bro hurt their feelings.

  232. 232
    Davebo says:

    Much of Canova’s campaign literature emphasizes his opposition to the nuclear agreement with Iran, a position shared by many in the district’s large and active Jewish population. Wasserman Schultz backed the deal.

    “She’s Jewish; I’m not. But I’ve had a Jewish stepdad for 40 years, and I was a volunteer on a kibbutz. . . . And she voted for the Iran agreement,” he said. “Either she got duped by [Obama deputy national security adviser] Ben Rhodes or she was in on it.”

    Canova draws heavy inspiration from Rep. Dave Brat (R-Va.), who, like him, was a college professor at a relatively obscure school when he toppled House Majority Leader Eric Cantor in 2014. He’s also closely studying how Paul Wellstone (D-Minn.) got elected to the Senate in 1990 when he was a professor at Carleton College.

    This is the guy Bernie wants to see defeat DWS and take her house seat. Now I’ve got problems with DWS like a lot of folks do but seriously?

  233. 233
    Bob in Portland says:

    @The Sheriff’s A Ni-: Yeah, fuck the bottom 70%. We’ll do it without them.

  234. 234
    raven says:

    @Bob in Portland: You too asshole, di di mau.

  235. 235
    Monala says:

    @Bob in Portland: Oh, perhaps because they’re like me, and got called into work on the day of the caucus, and still wanted a chance to have their voice heard?

  236. 236
    Gelfling545 says:

    @DCF: this smacks of “endorse but not support.”
    I guess you’re saying you’ll vote grudgingly for HRC but it’s a matter of indifference to you if she wins or loses? I imagine Trump would appreciate quite a few like that.

  237. 237
    A Ghost To Most says:

    I see the BernieBro outreach continues apace. Today’s troll is only a 2 of 10; end-of-season pickings are scarce.

    Someone should front page that comment by C.S. at ~101.

    And fuck you, Boris in Putinland

  238. 238
    patroclus says:

    @Bob in Portland: I tried being nice and talking to you for about three months. And for my trouble, I got called a Nazi, and today “nasty” and “warmonger” and a “Villager”. And the very same bald-faced whoppers about Honduras again and again. You’re a bald-faced liar and a Nazi and you ruin every thread in which you participate.

  239. 239
    hovercraft says:

    @Bob in Portland:
    State law sets the date of the primary and pays for, state parties always clamor to be as early as possible so they schedule caucuses. The last two primaries have been contested till the end, so they wasted their money this year, and influence MI and FL 2008.
    EDIT 2008 was a violation of DNC rule about moving primaries up too soon.

  240. 240
    Bob in Portland says:

    @Davebo: Where does Canova stand on payday lenders, Davebo? You cool with that? What’s Hillary’s incremental change for that?

  241. 241
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Bob in Portland:

    You, as a Clinton supporter, seem incapable of explaining how a politician who’s copped three billion from the richest of the rich is going to change the system to help the rest of us.

    I’ve never heard of a rich person helping anyone, standing for anything good, or changing a political system! Roose-who? Kenne-wha?

  242. 242
    Bob in Portland says:

    @hovercraft: hovercraft, you cannot defend Hillary as a defender of the working class?

  243. 243
    raven says:

    @patroclus: Why would you try too be nice to this shit eatin dog fucker?

  244. 244
    Gelfling545 says:

    @Bob In Portland: So not nominating a non-Democrat will kill the Democratic Party?

  245. 245
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Bob in Portland: Actually, Secretary Clinton will flip the Supreme Court to Progressive control, which will in and of itself help millions of Black people like me with voting rights, help millions of women like me with reproductive rights, help millions of LGBT with gay rights, help millions of immigrants like me with immigration reform. I could go on and on and on. That’s a way that Secretary Clinton will make things better for people of color and minorities.

    Also, since she’s running against a Bigot who has already made it clear what he will do to minorities — especially refugees and immigrants — Secretary Clinton will ensure that vulnerable Americans won’t be hurt by Trump.

    Nuff said.

  246. 246
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @patroclus: At least you weren’t called a neoliberal.

  247. 247
    hovercraft says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    She called in late, interrupted Chuck Todd in the middle of his interview with Gary Johnson and Bill Weld. Too funny.

  248. 248
    The Sheriff's A Ni- says:

    @C.S.: Much more eloquent and detailed than a simple ‘go fuck yourself,’ but no less satisfying. Bravo!

  249. 249
    Bob in Portland says:

    @FlipYrWhig: Yes, but I specifically asked for a defense of Hillary, not the assassinated Kennedys or our President 70 years ago.

    Three billion from the richest of the rich. Explain how she’ll make things better for the rest of us.

  250. 250
    Reggie Mantle says:

    Sad to see this place turn into a neoliberal version of Breitbart.

  251. 251
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Bob in Portland: Where does this “working class” claptrap even come from? What exactly did Bernie Sanders ever do for the “working class”? Say that banks are bigger than he likes, while making a funny face? He’s a backbench punk who accomplishes nothing and complains a lot.

  252. 252
    Fellatio Alger says:

    @Reggie Mantle: That first quote is actually true. The others are just opinions.

  253. 253
    Davebo says:

    I see a lot of similarity between the Sandernista’s and the Tea Party frankly.

    Except the Tea Party was better organized.

    Bernie has less than 5 million cash on hand and is trying to win in California which is by far the most expensive state in the country to launch a credible campaign. Not going to happen.

  254. 254
    gindy51 says:

    @Reggie Mantle: A lot of those are no longer Bernie supporters at least if they are feeling what they are writing on blogs and other social media.

  255. 255
    patroclus says:

    @Bob in Portland: You’re a bald-faced liar and a Nazi and you ruin every thread in which you participate.

  256. 256
    Fellatio Alger says:

    @raven: That’s the spirit! :)

  257. 257
    Bob in Portland says:

    @FlipYrWhig: Here’s the thing, Whig. You people claim to support the things that Sanders supports, so if Sanders were ahead you’d all rally around the progressive, right?

  258. 258
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Bob in Portland: Ida know, Bob, perhaps she has a series of proposals and put them on the Internet, which, per Homer Simpson, is on computers now. https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/

  259. 259
    Davebo says:

    @Reggie Mantle:

    Funny, I don’t recall you commenting here until fairly recently so how could you possibly have seen this place turn into anything?

  260. 260
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @raven:
    With apologies to shit-eating dog fuckers.

  261. 261
    patroclus says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA: The bald-faced Nazi liar will eventually get around to it I’m sure. He ruins every thread in which he participates.

  262. 262
    Fellatio Alger says:

    @Reggie Mantle: Ironic, since you probably have a poster of Breitbart on your bedroom wall.

  263. 263
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Of course, child care expenses mean nothing to the working class, only shouty sloganeering can change America!

    When Clinton rolled out a progressive set of policies for families at her May events in Lexington and Louisville, her explanation went something like this: We need a national system of paid family leave because too many women don’t even get a paid day off to give birth; workers don’t have a federal requirement for paid sick days; meanwhile, many dads and parents of adopted children don’t get any time off at all, and sons and daughters don’t get time to take care of aging parents. We also need to establish voluntary home-visiting programs, where new parents, especially those facing economic adversity, can get assistance in learning how to care for their children and prepare them to succeed in school, thus taking aim at unequal outcomes in the earliest years. Relatedly, we need to raise wages, because two-thirds of minimum-wage workers are women, which has an impact on single-parent and dual-earning homes and, when combined with high child-care costs, inhibits women’s ability to earn equal benefits, save for college, and put away for retirement. Minimum-wage workers currently spend between 20 and 40 percent of their income on child care; Clinton has a plan whereby no family would pay more than 10 percent on child care, but she also believes we need to increase pay for child-care providers and early educators, who in some places are paid less than dog trainers and who have their own families to take care of. All of this is tied to the need to strengthen unions and make health care more affordable through revisions to the Affordable Care Act as well.
    Clinton’s holistic view of intersecting challenges and multi-tentacled solutions — tax incentives, subsidies, wage hikes, pay protections — is weirdly thrilling in its expansive perspicacity. But it does not fit on a T-shirt. It does not sound good at a rally. You cannot even really show it on the local news, because it is not as simple as, say, “Free college!”

  264. 264
    chopper says:

    @Reggie Mantle:

    you’ve nailed it – what really matters here are your feelings. have they been sufficiently addressed?

    if clinton does lose, it’ll be precisely because someone didn’t give appropriate deference to some guy on the internet’s precious fee-fees. mark it, libs.

  265. 265
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Davebo: Both Bernie and Hillary are on the TV here, though Hillary has God doing the narration.

  266. 266
    hovercraft says:

    @Patricia Kayden:
    I’m starting to think these people are republicans. Clinton made me walk out of the back of the plane, Obama was mean to me, Pelosi was mean so lets crash the economy. These trolls need to get a life, someone being blunt with you on the internet is no reason to screw yourself and the country. Grow up.

  267. 267
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Reggie Mantle: Please…

  268. 268
    Miss Bianca says:

    @hovercraft: Yeah, HC, what the fuck is *up* with HRC and that family/medical leave and early childhood education/childcare crap? What is it with SCHIP and those poor kids getting health insurance? Fuck that noise – that’s only women and kids! *They’re* not part of the working class! No real working class person is a woman or has children! Ergo, Hillary Clinton has done nothing for the working class! She’s just counting her billions and plotting the neoliberal destruction of the country!

  269. 269
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @patroclus: I would have gone with Stalinist.

    ETA: He does seem to like pie though.

  270. 270
    Davebo says:

    @Bob in Portland:

    You people claim

    I’m shocked Bernie isn’t doing better with minorities. FWIW, I don’t support a nationwide $15.00 minimum wage. I don’t support significant tax increases to fund free tuition for everyone regardless of need. And I certainly don’t support scrapping NAFTA. (Hint, NAFTA didn’t cause the migration of manufacturing to Mexico, the plummeting of the peso had much more to do with it).

  271. 271
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Bob in Portland: I would vote for Sanders as the nominee, even though I find his actual existence borderline repellent, because I am not a precious little pony who thinks the nominee has to give him tingles in his swimsuit area. I was not breathlessly inspired by Bill Clinton, Lynn Yeakel, Al Gore, Ed Rendell, Ron Klink, John Kerry, Jim Webb, Tim Kaine, Mark Warner, Creigh Deeds, or Terry McAuliffe, but I still voted for them. I think I could manage the same thing for Bernie Sanders. This doesn’t seem to be a hard thing to handle in American politics for, what you call ’em, people.

  272. 272
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @raven: Dang, Crowperson, I can only aspire to your, how shall I say it, delicacy of expressive antipathy. Something regarding tongues & twenty-dollar female persons of easy virtue is chiming a distant carillon in my skull…;^D

  273. 273
    Trollhattan says:

    @Miss Bianca:
    Shhh, ix-nay on the etails-day, comrade. Is big January surprize!

  274. 274
    gindy51 says:

    @Bob in Portland: her supreme court picks will do that.

  275. 275
    Bob in Portland says:

    @patroclus: patroclus, if you still believe that a Latin American country can have a military coup without our State Department/CIA/military knowing ahead of time about it, then you are too dumb.

    You keep saying I called you a Nazi. I keep telling you I didn’t. I said generally that defenders here of the Nazi coup in Ukraine are, well, they are what they are. Are you a supporter of the current junta running Ukraine? Then you are a supporter of Nazis. Not quite the same.

    As much as I’d like to somehow reach across the pixels and make friends with you, if you sit through all the insults directed to me and then get offended by my comments, well then I guess we won’t be friends.

    Do you have any opinions of the swastikas worn by the Azov Battalion? Do you have any opinion about the seventy years of the US supporting fascists in eastern Europe and using the Gehlen Nazi spy network to attack the Soviet Union? Please share.

  276. 276
    Davebo says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA: It’s well known that God Ⓒ is a member of the establishment and a neo something or another.

  277. 277
    Gex says:

    @Chyron HR: Only when they are women.

  278. 278
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:

    Barney Frank on why Sanders lost: “He forgot black votes matter”. Boy howdy, does he have that guy’s number.

  279. 279
    Jack the Second says:

    So why is everyone else still this thread?

    I, like most good people, generally prefer constructive dialogue, where you exchange factual information and try to understand each other’s positions, either to find compromise or to simply determine which differences in underlying beliefs led to the difference in opinion, but I will admit to occasionally succumbing to the desire to just say the loudest thing last.

    But mostly I feel like I’m doing a service to the world, as every moment the trolls waste trying to somehow win the comment thread is one moment less they have to bother people in the real world, cut up magazines to reassemble into threatening letters to Democratic women and minorities, etc.

    So what keeps you replying when you know the person on the other end isn’t going to be convinced?

  280. 280
    C.S. says:

    @Bob in Portland:

    Yes, but I specifically asked for a defense of Hillary, not the assassinated Kennedys or our President 70 years ago. Three billion from the richest of the rich. Explain how she’ll make things better for the rest of us.

    Speaking for myself . . . no. Do your own damn homework or just go vote for Stein like an idiot. Have you really gone beyond “y’all gotta be nice to us” to the point where we have to spoon feed you too? No. It’s a less than worthless exercise. Either figure it out yourself like millions of others have, or don’t.

  281. 281
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Reggie Mantle:

    Sad to see this place turn into a neoliberal version of Breitbart.

    I sure as hell don’t remember you from last week, much less last decade. Who the fuck do you think you are?

    If we give you a participation trophy, will you GTFA?

  282. 282
    Bob in Portland says:

    @patroclus: So you can’t defend the seventy-year history of the US using fascists in Eastern Europe and you’re incapable of following links? Okay. You’re a chucklehead. People can be ignorant, but being deliberately ignorant is not a good look.

  283. 283
    raven says:

    @Uncle Cosmo: It’s a military thing. We’d give these fucking assholes a blanket party, not try to reason with em.

  284. 284
    chopper says:

    @Reggie Mantle:

    Sad to see this place turn into a neoliberal version of Breitbart.

    interesting attempt at nonsense. my turn: “it’s interesting that sasquatch shit would have so many corn nuts in it”

  285. 285
    pat says:

    @Bob in Portland:

    TL;DR

    (did I do that right?)

    eta: I see I was not the first one. Two minds on the same track.

  286. 286
    Bob in Portland says:

    @A Ghost To Most: Yet another villager who can’t respond civilly but has to insult the bearer of bad news.

  287. 287
    Cacti says:

    @Reggie Mantle:

    Sad to see this place turn into a neoliberal version of Breitbart.

    You’d probably feel more at home at Raw Story, or Crooks and Liars, where you can alert swarm anyone who blasphemes against The Bern.

  288. 288
    Reggie Mantle says:

    @chopper:

    you’ve nailed it – what really matters here are your feelings. have they been sufficiently addressed?

    if clinton does lose, it’ll be precisely because someone didn’t give appropriate deference to some guy on the internet’s precious fee-fees.

    Ironic, considering that the go-to response for Clintonites called on their rhetoric is to cite how mean those terrible “Bernie Bros” were to them. Seems like their own “precious fee-fees” are what’s driving their rage at 10 million or more voters, the vast majority of whom never said a harsh word to them.

  289. 289
    Fellatio Alger says:

    @chopper: LOL!

  290. 290
    Bob in Portland says:

    @pat: Why don’t you lobby Cole to include emojis?

    Meanwhile, pat, how is Hillary going to help the bottom 70%?

  291. 291
    Fellatio Alger says:

    @pat: Yes :)

  292. 292
    Davebo says:

    @raven: Soap in a sock is so 1970’s….

  293. 293
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Jack the Second: It’s like that joke “The Aristocrats.” The entertaining part isn’t where it goes, it’s the creatively disturbed variations that get you where you were inevitably going.

  294. 294
    El Caganer says:

    @Davebo: He’s inspired by David Brat? David Brat, the Tea Party guy? Fuck me.

  295. 295
    C.S. says:

    @Reggie Mantle: You’re right. We’re terrible people. I wouldn’t want your purest immortal soul sullied by being forced to share a political party with such crude folk as we. You probably should vote for Johnson.

  296. 296
    Fellatio Alger says:

    @Reggie Mantle: Your game is getting weaker with each comment. Please consult the troll manual for more creative responses.

  297. 297
    msdc says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    I unfollowed him on FB when he was in hardcore Bernista reality-denial mode and recently undid that. Perhaps a bit too soon.

    Just a bit. Now he’s posting “thoughtful responses” from Bernie-or-Busters and framing them with his typical fake-detached “What do you think?”

    I think you’re still full of shit, Bob.

  298. 298
    chopper says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    eh, bob-o has a habit of accusing you of racism or homophobia if you disagree with him. and when you ask him to show everyone evidence of said racist or homophobic statements he says something like “i totes could, but i just don’t feel like it. rest assured it’s totally out there, trust me”.

  299. 299
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Bob in Portland:
    Ah, go eat your borscht and drink your vodka, rooskie.

  300. 300
    hovercraft says:

    @Bob in Portland:
    You asked why states have primaries and caucuses, that’s the question I was answering. Middle class Clinton record : children’s defense fund, s-chip, 9/11 responders fund, womens health, paid family leave, early childhood education, FLMA, free community college, debt free college. That’s off the top of my head.

  301. 301
    Mike J says:

    Have you seen the smack Cole is talking about Baud! on twitter? He’s endorsed Zandar.

    Super delegates shouldn’t count! THIS WHOLE ELECTION IS RIGGED! The super delegates will save us!

  302. 302
    chopper says:

    @Reggie Mantle:

    eh, clinton voters aren’t ‘full of rage’. they’re just sick of dealing with the political equivalent of screaming toddlers. i mean, sack the fuck up. get it the fuck out of your system, grab a fucking shovel and join the rest of us.

  303. 303
    Fellatio Alger says:

    @Reggie Mantle: And your continued implication that you speak for MILLYUNS of Bernie voters is a perfect example of what psychologists call “infantile grandiosity.” But you’re just a troll, so …

  304. 304
    hovercraft says:

    @Miss Bianca:
    Notice how he ignores the answers he doesn’t like and just moves the goalposts.

  305. 305
    El Caganer says:

    @chopper: That needs a thread of its own…..

  306. 306
    Fellatio Alger says:

    @chopper: But he’s not a Bernie voter. He is on someone’s troll payroll. Everything he writes is calculated troll wankery to whatever troll-y ends his masters want.

  307. 307
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @hovercraft: But Bernie Sanders did that thing, the good one, with the helping of the people!

    Highlights from: Hillary Clinton was a more effective lawmaker than Bernie Sanders, WaPo, Jeffrey Lazarus, April 2016.

    Methodology:

    For this debate about effectiveness, the most important pieces of legislation are arguably bills which the two members sponsored, and which proposed substantive changes in law. This excludes commemorative bills; both Clinton and Sanders, for example, passed several bills renaming post offices after prominent local residents. This also excludes resolutions, which are either symbolic or procedural in nature.

    This also excludes legislation that Sanders and Clinton co-sponsored. A bill’s sponsor typically shepherds the bill through Congress and is usually (but not always) the bill’s primary author. By contrast, a co-sponsor merely signs his or her name on to a bill after it has been written and introduced, to indicate that she or he supports it.

    Results:

    Bernie Sanders has been in the Senate nine years and has sponsored only one bill that passed.

    Clinton successfully amended bills 67 times in her eight years in the Senate. Sanders did so 57 times in nine years. On a year-by-year basis, that comes to 8.4 per year for Clinton and 6.3 per year for Sanders. Moreover, the mean senator passed 7.4 amendments. Clinton’s is significantly higher than the mean, and Sanders’s is significantly below the mean. Put differently, Clinton passed 33 percent more amendments per year than did Sanders.

    Sanders’s record during his 16 years in the House of Representatives was similar. There he didn’t pass a single bill. Granted, it’s harder for members to pass bills in the House than the Senate — the mean House member passes only 0.7 a year — but even so, one passed bill over a quarter-century in both houses of Congress is a very low number compared with his colleagues.

  308. 308
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @chopper:

    clinton voters aren’t ‘full of rage’. they’re just sick of dealing with the political equivalent of screaming toddlers. i mean, sack the fuck up. get it the fuck out of your system, grab a fucking shovel and join the rest of us.

    Quoted for repetition. That could work?

  309. 309
    Bob in Portland says:

    @raven: Yeah, a military thing. I remember a blanket party in basic for a wussy little guy who was always the last marching out to the firing ranges, who ended up earning the platoon extra pushups at the end of the day.

    Finally one day we had to carry him back to the barracks because he couldn’t walk.

    The long story short, the fuckers gave him the wrong size boots and his feet were two bloody pulps when we got back to the barracks.

    So, yeah, blanket parties. Perfect metaphor for you low-life bullies here on Balloon Juice Island. Thank you for admitting your punk-ass hippie-punching self. That’s probably why you and the rest of the villagers here can get behind the fascist coup in Ukraine. Fascists are nothing more than bullies.

    For people who don’t know what a blanket party is, look it up. Maybe Cole should change the name of this hellhole to Blanket Party.

    That’s why when you guys were all behind Black Lives Matter I doubted your sincerity.

    You, raven, certainly are a bully. patroclus probably is more like the guy with the bloody stumps for feet.

    Meanwhile, none of you seem to be able to explain how Hillary’s going to rescue the rest of us from sinking further into poverty. So sad.

  310. 310
  311. 311
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @chopper: interesting attempt at nonsense. my turn: “it’s interesting that sasquatch shit would have so many corn nuts in it”

    Nonsense? I find that highly logical, since you figure a good chunk of their diet is stuff they steal from campers.

  312. 312
    Miss Bianca says:

    @hovercraft: Color me shocked, SHOCKED….

  313. 313
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Mike J:

    Have you seen the smack Cole is talking about Baud! on twitter? He’s endorsed Zandar.

    What? I’m done with Cole and his neoliberal cat and dog loving ways(choose a side Cole!). GBCW!

  314. 314
    Bob in Portland says:

    @FlipYrWhig: Whenever I want a liberal/progressive slant on things I go to WaPo first.

    Ha ha ha.

    So how many corporate lawyers do you think she’ll put on the Supreme Court?

  315. 315
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    Sanders isn’t even the most effective Senator from Vermont. The delusional bullshit his followers have swallowed will be the subject of psychological theses for years to come.

  316. 316
    hovercraft says:

    @FlipYrWhig:
    Thats the problem with purists, they get to stand at the side and rail about everyone else. As Obama said even when you are 100 % right you still have to compromise. Sanders has been in congress 25 years, and has accomplished very little.

  317. 317
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Bob in Portland: Well, you *did* call me a Nazi, Bob. I’d link to it, but DougJ cleaned up your droppings.

  318. 318
    Mnemosyne says:

    Just a reminder: what we’re dealing with now is not actually Bernie enthusiasts. We’re hearing from the He-Man Hillary Haterz Club, who were always less pro-Bernie than they were anti-Hillary.

    The vast majority of the people who are actually pro-Bernie are quietly preparing themselves to vote for Hillary, so now we only have the dead-end Hillary Haterz still clinging on to the hope that Trump will win and they’ll TOTALLY be proved right.

  319. 319
    Trollhattan says:

    @hovercraft:
    It’s a trap: there are no goalposts in Calvinball!

  320. 320
    Bob in Portland says:

    @FlipYrWhig: Whenever I want a liberal/progressive slant on things I go to WaPo first.

    Ha ha ha.

    So how many corporate lawyers do you think she’ll put on the Supreme Court?

    @A Ghost To Most: So is that a yes, you, Ghost, support the seventy-year history of the US supporting fascists in Eastern Europe and the current fascist government in Ukraine? Because you and your fellow villagers never to seem to get past name-calling.

  321. 321
  322. 322
    Bob in Portland says:

    @Mnemosyne: Oh, the insults flow so freely from your bitter lips.

    You can’t defend H. Clinton so you must insult people who don’t support her.

    How does H. Clinton separate herself from the three billion?

  323. 323
    Fellatio Alger says:

    @Trollhattan: Don’t know if NR was banhammered. This one is taking the emotional hostage-taking thing schtick to new heights it seems.

  324. 324
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Bob in Portland:

    “Meanwhile, none of you seem to be able to explain how Hillary’s going to rescue the rest of us from sinking further into poverty. So sad”

    OK, BiP, so what about hovercraft’s response at 301 can you look at and say: “meh – nothing to see here?” Shall we repeat it for you? Shall we write it out and bold it and shove it under your nose? Do you need glasses? Remedial reading classes? Once more for our men no longer in uniform:

    children’s defense fund, s-chip, 9/11 responders fund, womens health, paid family leave, early childhood education, FLMA, free community college, debt free college. That’s off the top of my head.

    So, why don’t you go away and think about all that. you sea-lioning apologist for Putinism, before you muster up the nerve to start bleating about “what has Clinton done for the working class”? Short answer : ONE METRIC FUCK-TON MORE THAN YOU’VE DONE, OR WILL EVER DO, FOR THEM.

  325. 325
    Bob in Portland says:

    @Trollhattan: How many thousand links do I have to post, Troll, for you to admit that the US is allied with Nazis in Ukraine? Ten, twenty, a thousand?

  326. 326
    pseudonymous in nc says:

    @Bob In Portland:

    Maybe H. Clinton will have as much success in California as she did in Washington and Oregon.

    White do you think might be different about Washington and Oregon, Boob?

  327. 327
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Bob in Portland:
    You’re a lying sack of shit, a Putin-paid-for professional troll, so if you say so, I know I’m in the clear.

    I may send Putin a crystal beltbuckle, so you’ll have a room with a view.

  328. 328
    NR says:

    @C.S.:

    Because when Clinton wins,

    I too think that the best time to count chickens is before they’ve hatched.

  329. 329
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Cacti: Never noticed that at Crooks & Liars. The commenters seem pretty fair to Secretary Clinton from what I see.

  330. 330
    Trollhattan says:

    @Bob in Portland:
    All that, plus one.

  331. 331
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Bob in Portland:

    Ah, nothing like a white dude implying that Black commenters are betraying their race by not supporting Bernie. That’s never offensive.

    (No, I am not Black, but you’ve already addressed several Black posters with that bullshit.)

    Multiple people have already linked you to multiple citations for Hillary’s plans for health care and child care, among other plans to help the middle and working classes, so at this point I have to assume that your problem is that Hillary is not coming to your doorstep to personally solve all of your problems for you.

  332. 332
  333. 333
    Jack the Second says:

    @Bob in Portland:

    Meanwhile, none of you seem to be able to explain how Hillary’s going to rescue the rest of us from sinking further into poverty. So sad.

    She’s going to lead a million man march on Washington.

  334. 334
    Mike J says:

    @Mnemosyne: Did you see this?
    https://twitter.com/playbill/status/737736336929660929
    Lin_Manuel will co-star in 2018 Mary Poppins sequel!

    (I linked to the tweet so you could see the video)

  335. 335
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @chopper: As if racists and homophobes would comment here. Lol!

  336. 336
    Mike in DC says:

    Bob in Portland’s support for Bernie will evaporate once Comrade Sanders says something unflattering about Putin, or supportive of Ukraine.

  337. 337
    different-church-lady says:

    “You’re gonna need a bigger boat bus.”

  338. 338
    Ripley says:

    The virulence on this blog is just the symptom of a larger disease.

    Ebola?

  339. 339
    D58826 says:

    Will someone take Bernie’s shovel away. He just gets in deeper and deeper. His latest statement is that it is factually incorrect that Clinton will clinch the nomination on June 7th. because she won’t have a majority or real delegates. Maybe be he can talk to Caribo Barbie on the subject of real Murkins. This is sad

  340. 340
    C.S. says:

    @NR:

    I too think that the best time to count chickens is before they’ve hatched.

    Yes. That’s precisely what I am doing. Precisely. There is no nuance or context to it whatsoever. Now go register Libertarian or Green or whatever the hell you want and vote your conscience so that actual progressives don’t have to cater to you any more.

  341. 341
  342. 342
    ruemara says:

    @DCF: you and that article should fuck right off the planet.

  343. 343
    chopper says:

    @Jack the Second:

    no, that’s the way bernie is going to get all that great shit he promises done. clinton is going to sully herself with stupid things like ‘policy’.

  344. 344
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Ripley:
    Zika.

  345. 345
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Bob in Portland: Hodor!

  346. 346
    NR says:

    @C.S.: “Actual progressives.” You’re funny.

  347. 347
    chopper says:

    @Mike in DC:

    i think if that happens ol’ bob-o will go with the conspiracy theory that the CIA replaced sanders with an alien transvestite robot.

  348. 348
    pseudonymous in nc says:

    @Reggie Mantle:

    You know how Hillary Clinton can lose to Trump? Keep doing exactly what you’re doing.

    Who died and made you pope of 10 million Sanders voters? Dear me.

  349. 349
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Bob in Portland:

    You can’t defend H. Clinton so you must insult people who don’t support her.

    Why should I bother to defend her to people who have demonstrated over and over again that they’re incapable of understanding how a charity foundation works? You seem to think that the monies for the Clinton Foundation are just sitting in Bill and Hillary’s personal checking account waiting to be used either for that new Maserati or for AIDS prevention in Africa, whichever they feel like spending on that day.

    Also, I love how you elide “conservative coddling of Nazi refugees after the war” into “both sides do it!” Just more proof that your brain is so addled that you genuinely think that Trump and Clinton will govern exactly the same way.

  350. 350
    C.S. says:

    @NR:

    I’m hysterical. I’m a master-class in comedic timing. Now go vote for Stein. You wouldn’t want to be seen interacting with me. Doesn’t look good on your pristine soul.

  351. 351
    chopper says:

    @Bob in Portland:

    hey look, the guy who calls everyone who disagrees with him a racist, homophobe nazi supporter, the guy who tells people who didn’t insult him in the first place to vigorously anally penetrate themselves, that guy is complaining about ‘bullying’.

  352. 352
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Mike J:

    That gif made me laugh and laugh and laugh.

  353. 353
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @chopper:
    Yeah, sack up, Boris.

  354. 354
    different-church-lady says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Why should I bother to defend her to people who have demonstrated over and over again that they’re incapable of understanding how a charity foundation banging a rock against another rock works?

    FTFY.

  355. 355
    different-church-lady says:

    Reading through the comments, it’s quite clear this primary has entered the garbage-time trash talk phase.

  356. 356
    Brachiator says:

    Been away from media and the internets. So refreshing.

    Nice to see that not much has changed. But here in California and the remaining primary states, it’s time to vote for Hillary. No more crap about protest votes or moving her further left or, damn that Bernie is cute stuff.

    Obviously if Bernie is truly your preferred candidate I would never suggest that you abandon him.

    But if you recognize that Hillary will be the nominee and intend to vote for her in November, your primary vote may help Bernie Bros to see the light.

  357. 357
    hovercraft says:

    @Bob in Portland:
    I rest my case.

  358. 358
    Steeplejack (phone) says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Hey, the interro^2bang is right out! You should know better.

  359. 359
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Bob in Portland: Wonder why Putin’s support of neo-Nazi groups all over Europe always gets a pass. You must just be too busy.

  360. 360
    Trollhattan says:

    @different-church-lady:
    It’s like entering a tunnel in the Alps only to find out you can’t exit; you’re orbiting CERN.

  361. 361
    StringOnAStick says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Koch money helped get a RWNJ school board majority elected here in 2015, who immediately started doing RWNJ things. With massive community mobilization, we got them recalled by a 67% margin, and solid mainstream candidates replaced them; they are still busy undoing the damage. The various Koch entities spent almost a million bucks, and still lost.

    Sounds great, right? The truth is that if people had been paying attention, the 3 RWNJ’s would never have been elected, and so much effort wouldn’t have been needed to dislodge them or to get good people to run to oppose them. Who wants to get elected to a time consuming volunteer position in order to work with 3 RWNJ’s bent on violating secrecy rules and making being on the board so onerous? That’s the winger local election playbook right there. What saved us was this recall was the first all mail-in ballot elections in our state (CO). Push for mail-in and the Koch suckers don’t win the off season, small offices by default/evangelical troopers.

  362. 362
    Miss Bianca says:

    @different-church-lady: Once again, you slay me.

    @StringOnAStick: Oh, yes, Jefferson County represent! (you are talking about JeffCo, right?)

  363. 363
    Mike R says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Those are the good neo-nazis or something, something never mind, look squirrel. consider this my contribution to a possible tbu.

  364. 364
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @StringOnAStick:

    With massive community mobilization, we got them recalled by a 67% margin, and solid mainstream candidates replaced them; they are still busy undoing the damage. The various Koch entities spent almost a million bucks, and still lost.

    Good Times.

  365. 365
    Mike in DC says:

    @chopper:

    It’s already happened, considering that Sen. Sanders fully supported Pres. Obama’s imposition of sanctions on Russia for their decision facto annexation of the Crimea. Sen. Sanders on his senate website further supported the possibility of additional sanctions to deter further Russian aggression in Eastern Europe.

  366. 366
    les says:

    @Reggie Mantle:

    So make up your mind. Should nearly 10 million Bernie supporters “get on board” or should all of them just fuck off?

    They should have voted for him, then they wouldn’t have to choose. If they can figure out how, they should get on board.

  367. 367
    DCF says:

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne:
    Pat, I’d like a vowel!….
    Think about it – maybe you’ll figure it out, but I wouldn’t count on it….

  368. 368
    Mike in NC says:

    Bob is on fire tonight. Will we see this thread pass the 500 comments mark?

  369. 369
    Elie says:

    @Trollhattan:

    It’s like entering a tunnel in the Alps only to find out you can’t exit; you’re orbiting CERN.

    LOL — !!!

  370. 370
    different-church-lady says:

    @Mike in NC: Things I Wouldn’t Piss On for $600, Alex.

  371. 371
    DCF says:

    @ruemara:
    Well, you – and a number of others here at the ‘Hillary hive’ – have never had much of a regard for facts or trends…it’s fascinating to read the comments of people who have, through actual or willful ignorance, no realistic perspective on the Democratic party in the 21st century….

  372. 372
    Ed_FINNERTY says:

    @Chyron HR: she loses by winning

    Obviously

  373. 373
    Carl W says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    And it’s been years since I’ve heard anyone care about “domestic surveillance.”

    Just for the record: I care about domestic surveillance.

  374. 374
    D58826 says:

    @les: CBS had an article this Am, that by this point in 2008 Hillary was already pivoting to attack the GOP and not Obama. She said repeatedly how important it was for everyone to support the eventual winner. She wasn’t talking about changing the party or having a ‘messy’ convention.

  375. 375
    DCF says:

    @different-church-lady:
    You work for ‘Correct The Record’, don’t you?…I’d wager you believe David Brock is a paragon of virtue….

  376. 376
    D58826 says:

    @DCF: Isn’t there a flat earth hive you can join?

  377. 377
    DCF says:

    @D58826:
    She was also talking about the Robert F. Kennedy assassination, and how things could change ‘…at any time…’

  378. 378
    DCF says:

    @D58826:
    I’ll leave that membership to you, given the position(s) you advocate….
    BTW – gravity works….

  379. 379
    Elie says:

    @different-church-lady:

    Hello there! Thanks for having my back a few nights ago when I was layin the wood to Bernie’s spokesperson and wife, Jane. I was only slightly mean in referring to her physical appearance but totally right on about the insides… Sheesh — when will this show close up? So tired of reading about Bernie’s current ultimatums to coerce the Democrats in giving him the nomination. No one told him that to be the Democratic candidate he should be at least able to count….. And has he heard that insulting folks that support Hillary gets him those superdelegates?

  380. 380
    D58826 says:

    @DCF: Of course thing can change. Hillary could get hit by lightening but then so could Bernie. I will now float off in my gravity free bubble.

  381. 381
    Bob In Portland says:

    @Gin & Tonic: You’ll have to steer me to an article. Are you saying that if Putin supports Nazis then it’s okay for the US to have supported Nazis and fascists for the last seventy years?

    I don’t support fascists.

    However, I’ve noted over the last few years that there are more and more articles in the Russian press about morality and true religion. I can’t think of anything more reactionary than religions.

  382. 382
    Bob In Portland says:

    @pseudonymous in nc: Writing from North Carolina? Heh heh heh. What was that Jesus quote about a mote in the eye? You want to call the people of two states racists and you live in North Carolina. Man, the idiocy of the commenters sometimes amazes me.

  383. 383
    DCF says:

    @Gelfling545:
    Assumptive much?…I neither ‘endorse’ or ‘support’ HRC, but will vote for her because the alternative is an existential threat to the nation….
    Enjoy the corporate consolidation, environmental degradation, and triangulation that will follow from an HRC presidency…Back To The Future, indeed….
    All hail the top 10%!!!!!F*** the ‘poors’ and the ‘lower 90%’….
    Here’s a retrospective for you:
    In memory of those who dared to dream big.
    http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017379238

  384. 384
    DCF says:

    @D58826:
    It’s a ‘fact-free’ bubble, Hoss….

  385. 385
    Bob In Portland says:

    @DCF: Because while we all want campaign reform we are sure in our hearts that the three billion that passed from the wealthiest of the wealthy to H. Clinton and family has no effect on what she’ll do in the White House. Because these brilliant neoliberals now know that there is no quid pro quo when it comes to Hillary. No sirree!

  386. 386
    DCF says:

    @different-church-lady:
    Why? You’re willing to s*** on progressive values (and those who hold them) for a lot less than that, without forethought or reflection….

  387. 387
    Bob In Portland says:

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: Punch down! You’re such a miserable bully. You aren’t interested is discussing anything, just attacking anyone you see as weaker. So sad, but if it helps your precious, delicate fee fees you go right ahead.

  388. 388
    DCF says:

    @Bob In Portland:
    Heck no, Bob!…why would an influx of HUGE sums of money from establishment sources who want things to remain exactly as they are – you know, the Second Gilded Age – influence policies and priorities in any way, shape or form?!?

  389. 389
    Bob In Portland says:

    @different-church-lady: Another worthless comment by another villager. Really, tell us what Hillary will do? I mean besides appoint someone to the Supreme Court. Probably a trio of corporate lawyers.

  390. 390
    different-church-lady says:

    @Elie: If that qualifies as having your back, you should watch your back.

  391. 391
    different-church-lady says:

    @Bob In Portland:

    Really, tell us what Hillary will do?

    If she kicks you in the nuts, she’s got my vote.

  392. 392
    different-church-lady says:

    @DCF: I’m not sure you understand how that expression works.

  393. 393
  394. 394
    Bob In Portland says:

    Actually, merging Islamists and Nazis has a history going back to WWII.

  395. 395
    different-church-lady says:

    @Reggie Mantle: Threatening to take your ball and go home doesn’t work so well when everyone else also has a ball.

  396. 396
    Bob In Portland says:

    @DCF: That is a truism here on Balloon Island. And she takes money from just about everyone, except for the folks she had to stop taking money from when it became public.

    None of the juicers have any concern about whatever the Hilz said to Goldman Sachs, or Deutsches Bank. Okay, we know she said, “Cut it out” but we don’t know in what context. Maybe she said, “Cut it out. No, I want a bigger slice. Now cut it out for me.”

    It’s going to be fun watching these hypocrites over the next four years. I wonder how long they’ll keep their lips buttoned about the lack of progress with progressive issues, or her next rash of wars. Villagers, you’re gonna have to defend her when she does what we all know she’ll do.

  397. 397
    Jack the Second says:

    @Bob In Portland: Bob, Bob, Bob.

    Allow me to let you in on a little secret that will help you better converse with Americans.

    Russia is America’s ex, and we are so over Russia.

    [I’m not sure if Russia self-identifies as a man or woman, but the analogy does not rely on sexist “ex-wife” tropes, so it doesn’t really matter whether Russia is the ex-wife or ex-husband in this analogy.]

    Russia and America had this whole thing for so long, and for so many years Russia was all we could think about or talk about. Russia was our kismesis, if you’re familiar with troll lingo. And sure, there will always be a little part of America obsessed with Russia, that will never let go and will always carry a torch for Russia, but it’s over.

    We’re over. We’re over Russia. America doesn’t want to hear about Russia, doesn’t want to think about Russia, doesn’t want to deal with Russia, we are just so tired of all of Russia’s shit. It was beautiful while it lasted, a relationship to end all relationships, but it is over now, and there is nothing left.

    Well, there are the kids. [Former Soviet bloc countries in this analogy, the remnants of the Second World.] Yeah, they weren’t really our kids, and they still mostly live with Russia, or nearby, but we were together long enough that we still kind of feel responsible for them, and want to make sure that Russia at least isn’t, like, abusing them. But fuck, dealing with Russia is like, so draining and one day we’re going to say, we’ve done enough, and just walk away.

    Hillary Clinton may have once been a part of that America that was really into Russia, and it may even have taken her longer than some to get over it, but she has gotten over Russia. Believe me, Hillary Clinton would like nothing more to not even have to talk to Russia for the next 8 years, if Russia can just stop driving by America’s house at 3am and stop abusing the kids and not kill any more of our cats and leave them on America’s doorsteps.

    Russia and America are over, Bob. Get over it.

  398. 398
    Bob In Portland says:

    @different-church-lady: Considering the amount of money she has I’m sure it won’t be her. It’ll be someone from her truth squad.

    But, you know, you bullies like to imagine physical harm to people who don’t agree with you.

    Thanks once again for pointing out that you guys are really narcissistic bullies. Love it. Just a piece of raw meat and the dogs start howling.

    Remember, keep punching down.

  399. 399
    Jack the Second says:

    @Bob In Portland:

    Villagers, you’re gonna have to defend her when she does what we all know she’ll do.

    Why do you guys always insist we have to defend politicians we back if they don’t live up to their campaign promises?

    We’re not supporting a candidate we think is infallible for the papacy, we’re supporting a candidate we think has the best proven track record of furthering the progressive causes we care about and the best chances of continuing to do so if elected President. We’re not even saying she is the best candidate for all possible progressive causes, just the progressive causes we care about.

    Do you understand we’re talking about supporting a politician and not swearing our souls to a dread lich, binding our lives to theirs? Why oh why do you keep insisting we are entering into some sort of unbreakable Faustian contract demanding our perpetual loyalty?

  400. 400
    chopper says:

    @Jack the Second:

    Do you understand we’re talking about supporting a politician and not swearing our souls to a dread lich, binding our lives to theirs?

    that’s racist homophobic fascist bully talk right there, partner.

  401. 401
    Bob In Portland says:

    @Jack the Second: Thanks for first intimating that I’m not an American. That puts you on the same moral level as the asswipes who used to chant “America, love it or leave it.” That is, you too, are a douchebag who can’t defend your position, can’t answer what you honestly expect Hillary to do, can’t deal with the three billion in her pockets from the wealthy. So you talk down and insult.

    However, if America is so over Russia, why do you think that the Russians are preparing for war against us? Not reading enough Balloon Juice? Yeah, putting German soldiers on Russia’s border, that’s the way to promote world peace.

    Building that anti-ballistic missile system in Romania. That shouldn’t worry the Russians, should it? All those Salafists sent to Russia by our dear ally the House of Saud? Nah, they are only going to Russia to help, like the ones sent to Chechnya.

    So apparently you are clueless. Good enough reason to vote for Clinton. It’ll all be a big surprise for you.

  402. 402
    TriassicSands says:

    @Bob In Portland:

    And she will go down in history as the candidate who finally killed the Democratic Party.

    I’m no fan of HRC’s, but this statement is just nonsense.

  403. 403
  404. 404
  405. 405
    Jack the Second says:

    @Bob In Portland: I find it interesting that you interpret that as me claiming you were not American; I specifically said that there will always be a tiny portion of America which will always carry a torch for Russia. Why did you not identify with that portion?

  406. 406
    Bob In Portland says:

    And here is the article that the good citizens of Balloon Juice Island have avoided for over two years.

  407. 407
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Bob In Portland: As long as she puts the right Judges in the right places and advocates progressive issues, I’ll be perfectly fine with President Clinton for the next 8 years. Just like there are things which President Obama does with which I may disagree, I expect President Clinton to do the same. I don’t expect Presidents to be saviors or perfect. I expect them to be better on social issues and civil rights than Republicans and so far that’s what they have been.

    So yeah. I look forward to defending Secretary Clinton when she does good things as President and criticizing her when she messes up. Most of all, I look forward to her beating Trump and keeping Republicans out of the White House until 2014, at the earliest.

    Not sure why you think if we didn’t vote for your Democratic candidate, that means that somehow we’re less progressive than you are. We don’t have to choose Senator Sanders to be good Democrats.

  408. 408
    Bob In Portland says:

    Here’s a book to read. You’ll note that the author refers to the Republican Party. That’s because back in 1991 when the book was written America’s dabbling with Nazis and fascists was pretty much limited to Republicans. Since then the Clintons have embraced the ol’ Nazis too, showing how Hillary’s bipartisanship works.

    Anyone need more articles about the Nazis in Eastern Europe and Ukraine? A show of hands?

  409. 409
    Jack the Second says:

    @Bob In Portland: Bob, I’m not sure I’m following you. Balloon Juice is refusing to acknowledge the long history the Republican Party has with Nazism? We’re running against the Republicans, Bob. We frequently decry both Trump’s fascism, his support of and by American neo-Nazis, and that of other fascist elements in the mainstream Republican party, like Pat Buchanan.

    What more do you want?

  410. 410
    Bob In Portland says:

    Worried about how the Russians treat gays? Take a look at Ukraine, and look who’s out in the streets.

  411. 411
    Bob In Portland says:

    @Jack the Second: Don’t follow me, Jack, follow the links. I’ll look up some more. You read, right?

  412. 412
    Jack the Second says:

    @Bob In Portland: Bob, the article doesn’t talk about the Clintons. It talks about the Republicans. How are we supposed to draw the line between the two? Was there a different article you meant to link instead?

  413. 413
    PatrickG says:

    @Jack the Second:

    Do you understand we’re talking about supporting a politician and not swearing our souls to a dread lich, binding our lives to theirs? Why oh why do you keep insisting we are entering into some sort of unbreakable Faustian contract demanding our perpetual loyalty?

    Quoted for Truth. Which we all know is Beauty. So I’m quoting for Beauty. :)

    Your comment at #398 was great, too. I just have a thing for liches.

  414. 414
    Bob In Portland says:

    @Patricia Kayden: Not worried about the bottom 70% of Americans?

  415. 415
    chopper says:

    @Bob In Portland:

    Worried about how the Russians treat gays?

    not at all. a nice guy like putin would never lead a society that does fascist stuff like that.

  416. 416
    Bob In Portland says:

    @Jack the Second: I would like that my country stop waging wars against other nations for the benefit of the wealthy. That includes but does not stop with Russia. In case you haven’t noticed our armed forces are kind of spread out across the globe.

  417. 417
    Bob In Portland says:

    @chopper: Well, you certainly don’t worry about how the Ukrainian neo-Nazis treat gays, now, do you? But then you didn’t read the link so once again you are ignorant about what you’re talking about. Read the link.

  418. 418
    different-church-lady says:

    @Bob In Portland: Nah, it’ll be her. She’ll probably enjoy it.

  419. 419
    chopper says:

    @Bob In Portland:

    don’t I need to read Listen, Liberal first?

  420. 420
    Bob In Portland says:

    @TriassicSands: Predictions happen in the future. The Democratic Party is now serving the rich. That’s why Wall Street shoveled all that money to Obama in 2012. And to Hilz over the last fifteen years.

    You think that the coalition of the ultra-rich and the poor and getting poorer is going to hold? Eventually she is going to have to choose one or the other, and guess what, the other side has already given her three billion.

  421. 421
    Bob In Portland says:

    @different-church-lady: Is that why you like Hillary? Bullies like bigger bullies. It makes you such a beautiful person, wishing that Hillary Clinton kicks me in the nuts. But why stop there? Why not have Hillary shoot me, or push me down stairs. I’m over six feet, I don’t know if Hillary can lift her foot high enough.

    Do you think that Hillary likes to kick people in the nuts? Like you imagine?

    Yeah, Commander-in-Chief. Just think of all the places where we can come, see and kill. You must feel quite proud. It takes a bully to appreciate a big bully.

  422. 422
    chopper says:

    @Bob In Portland:

    But, you know, you bullies like to imagine physical harm to people who don’t agree with you.

    I know! like imagining someone being made to stick a corncob up their butthole ‘vigorously and repeatedly’ merely because of a disagreement. what kind of sick fucking bully gets off imagining that shit?

    sick, sick stuff. I’d go so far as to suggest that person needs professional help, for his bullying and homophobia.

  423. 423
    Bob In Portland says:

    @Jack the Second: Which article doesn’t mention the Clintons?

  424. 424

    Oh my god how do you people do this

  425. 425
    different-church-lady says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Trolling is a hell of a drug.

  426. 426
    Mike in DC says:

    Bernie Sanders supported the imposition of sanctions on Russia for their de facto annexation of the Crimea. He supports further sanctions, as required, to deter further Russian aggression.

  427. 427
    chopper says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    well lookee here it’s Mr. Has-A-Job. no time for arguin’ on the internet i see.

  428. 428
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @chopper: This isn’t arguing. It’s abuse.

  429. 429
    Julia Grey says:

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: The delusional bullshit his followers have swallowed will be the subject of psychological theses for years to come.

    Nah. Once this election is over, the details of his campaign and motivations/psychology of his supporters will be forgotten. Bernie himself, though, will probably get a semi-permanent slot on Meet The Press, much like John McCain. He’ll enjoy undermining and sniping at Hillary from the sidelines for the next 8 years.

  430. 430
    Jack the Second says:

    @Bob In Portland: The Nation article — “Seven Decades of Nazi Collaboration”.

  431. 431
    chopper says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    these Ts don’t Bogg themselves, sport.

  432. 432
    Ruckus says:

    I leave this place for one day to go to work and I come home and find this crap?
    I’ll only ask one question, why do you people keep talking to people who are either republicans, libertarians, greenies, or paid trolls? I can see once or twice, trying to get something through their tiny little minds, but after that it has become so obvious that they belong to one of those groups and you will never reach them or satisfy them and will always end up telling them to fuck off. Because that’s all they deserve.
    They are here to stink up the place, nothing more. All you are doing is helping them.

  433. 433
    J R in WV says:

    @Reggie Mantle:

    I thought Senator Sanders was a great candidate, at first.

    Now I doubt that he’s even a good candidate.

    I’ll be voting for Ms Clinton. Thanks for all your input!

    JR

  434. 434
    Jack the Second says:

    @Bob In Portland:

    I would like that my country stop waging wars against other nations for the benefit of the wealthy. That includes but does not stop with Russia. In case you haven’t noticed our armed forces are kind of spread out across the globe.

    Oof, you don’t ask for much, do you? I do believe in the path to harmony, but that doesn’t mean I know it.

    I think when Ike outlined the Congressional-Industrial-Military complex, he hit the parts that make it difficult for the President to reduce military spending, but he left out an important part, the People. It is not just campaign contributions that keep Congress voting for more and more military spending, it is their constituents. Even if you fixed campaign finance — which it something that needs to be done — Congress would still keep voting for more military spending, because their constituents would demand it.

    I think there’s two angles that need to be worked on before we can de-militarize. The first is economic: people don’t want military bases near them or factories they work at or overseas bases those factories are supplying closed, because they like having jobs more than they like not blowing up random parts of the globe. Until we find a way to replace those jobs or the economic need, people will never support concrete reductions in military spending, even if they support cutting military spending in the abstract (you know, closing the factories and bases in other States, not their own).

    The second is the fear; while people no longer really care about Russia, they’re still afraid of China and/or terrorists. They don’t want to reduce our Navy because of China, and they don’t want to reduce our Army or Air Force because of terrorism. Until people are no longer afraid, they’ll never support reductions in military spending or surveillance enough to actually get it done.

    I can think of ways to improve the economic situation, but I’m honestly not sure how to make people less afraid.

  435. 435
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:

    @Julia Grey:

    a semi-permanent slot on Meet The Press, much like John McCain. He’ll enjoy undermining and sniping at Hillary from the sidelines for the next 8 years.

    Obama will be free to speak too, so there’s that going for Hillary. Obama’s ready to come off the sidelines now. In 8 years Bernie will be 82 or dead. Old Uncle Bernie needs to go home now, or President Black Ninja will push him.

    Helping to TBogg this thing.

  436. 436
    redshirt says:

    I’ve figured it out! The new energy source for the future. Clean, renewable, endless. Bernie Deadenders!

    So you have hopper filled with Bernie Deadenders, and you drop one at a time into a blog that’s programmed to spin a wheel for every post.

    Voila! Energy to power the Neoliberal 21st century!

  437. 437
    Brachiator says:

    @Bob In Portland:

    Not worried about the bottom 70% of Americans?

    I worry greatly about them. This is why an astute person would support Hillary over Sanders. Sanders is full of good intention, but does not demonstrate the slightest degree of a meaningful way to help. I hope, however, that he can inspire competent progressives to follow in the path he has started to trailblaze.

  438. 438
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Bob In Portland:

    You’ll have to steer me to an article.

    You kill me with your humor, Bob.

    You know how to use the Internet. Use it.

  439. 439
    redshirt says:

    Without BiP or the new Bernie Deadenders I’m not optimistic of going Tbogg here.

    Where the heck is Becnel?! He was suppose to report 4 hours ago!

  440. 440
    Cacti says:

    @chopper:

    don’t I need to read Listen, Liberal first?

    Is that the one that tells you the best way to cup Putin’s balls, when you’re going to town on his flagpole?

  441. 441
    pat says:

    I’ll only ask one question, why do you people keep talking to people who are either republicans, libertarians, greenies, or paid trolls? I can see once or twice, trying to get something through their tiny little minds, but after that it has become so obvious that they belong to one of those groups and you will never reach them or satisfy them and will always end up telling them to fuck off.

    well hell without Boob we would never get that TBOGG. Duh.

    Oh crap the first paragraph was supposed to be in the box. Maybe some day I’ll get this figured out.

  442. 442
    pat says:

    looks like I killed that thread. woot.

  443. 443
    SFAW says:

    @pat:

    Oh crap the first paragraph was supposed to be in the box. Maybe some day I’ll get this figured out.

    You didn’t happen to major in Latin Studies, did you?

  444. 444
    chopper says:

    @SFAW:

    sounds like he is, as we say in Latin, a “dorkus mallorcus”.

  445. 445
    Ruckus says:

    @pat:
    Yeah, but what is so special about that if you got there by giving them more air time for their shit?

    It turns the site into a newspaper comment section.

Comments are closed.