Beyond Exasperated Open Thread: Strategery — How Does It Work?

The Sanders campaign has turned into an inadvertent lesson in the narcissism of small differences, but at least its leader seems to be figuring out (no sooner than time) that calling the Democratic primaries “rigged” makes him look like someone too dumb to figure out the rules. Or too self-involved to think he needs to worry about them…

“What has upset me, and what I think is — I wouldn’t use the word ‘rigged’ because we knew what the rules were — but what is really dumb, is that you have closed primaries, like in New York State, where three million people who were Democrats or Republicans could not participate,” Sanders added. “You have a situation where over 400 super delegates came on board Clinton’s campaign before anybody else was in the race, eight months before the first vote was cast. That’s not rigged, I think it’s just a dumb process which has certainly disadvantaged our campaign.”…

News flash, Senator — election by acclamation, by the decibel volume of one’s cheering supporters and the number of media village idiots that want to interview you, is only available to Republican contenders. Another valuable piece of information you don’t seem to have researched in advance.

Go home, shouty little man. You’re embarrassing your constituents, and damaging your new followers.






232 replies
  1. 1

    Nate Silver is pretty good at Twitter.

  2. 2
    NotMax says:

    Ho hum.

  3. 3
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    So Bernie wants to dictate who Hillary chooses as her running mate?

  4. 4

    @BillinGlendaleCA: No, he *wants* to dictate who the party nominates. But he’s willing to settle for control of the platform, veto power over committee chairs, selecting a replacement for the head of the party apparatus, and picking Hillary’s running mate. He’s willing to lose gracefully like that.

  5. 5
    The Thin Black Duke says:

    When this is finally over, Bernie is going to play ball if only because he needs to pay off his campaign debts, so he better not piss off to many people. Then again, that ship might have already sailed, hit an iceberg and sank.

  6. 6
    amk says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    Nah, he just wants to be crowned as the nominee first and then as the prezzie next. A simple man with simple ambitions. What’s wrong with that?

  7. 7
    Damien says:

    Al Giordano’s headline quote is a nice summary of several DKos diaries about Hillary’s email server. I swear, a lot of people seem convinced the FBI is going to frog March Clinton any day now.

  8. 8
    Amir Khalid says:

    Bernie seems to believe he has the Democratic party over a barrel. But he doesn’t have most of his base to use a bargaining chip. Most of them were always going to vote for the party nominee in November, and that’s going to be Hillary. Doesn’t he understand how little leverage he has, being the losing candidate and all?

  9. 9
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    being the losing candidate and all?

    You see Amir, here’s your problem, you’re using “votes” and “delegates” to measure winning and loosing. Bernie has people at his rallies, folk who give him $27; that’s the real metric!

  10. 10
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    I did manage to get down to Shannon County for a couple days with my long time running buddy. We talked caving, fishing, traveling, trailers, work…. and yes, politics. He’s been feeling the Bern. Kind of proud of himself for it too. Could.not.believe.I.voted.for.Hillary.

    So of course we argued. Why not, we have argued over everything else imaginable over the years. Kept going on about how undemocratic it is with with with Closed Primaries! So I asked him, “Do you think it is a good idea to have Republicans picking the Dem nominee?”
    Didn’t like that. Finally came back with, “But what about Independents???”
    “What about them? They’re not Dems either, and it is the Dem nominee we are talking about.”
    “But they should be able to vote for the Dem nominee too.”
    “Sure! All they have to do is register Dem and they can.”
    MO is an open primary state. Thanks Bernie.

    And then he got on how overly convoluted the process is and he can’t figure out how it works and and and Super delegates!
    “Forget about the Super delegates Tim. Bernie is losing in pledged delegates.”
    “But what are the super delegates for?”
    “Forget about the Super delegates, Bernie is losing in the popular vote.”
    “But it’s by only 3 or 4 million!”
    “Tim, he can’t make that difference up.”
    “But why do they have super delegates?”
    “The SDs are the people in the party who have put their lives into building the party up. Do you really think they should have no more say than Joe the plumber who sometimes votes R?”
    “But that’s undemocratic!!!”
    Thanx Bernie.

    “I don’t like Hillary!”
    “So what? I don’t like* her either but I’m not voting for ‘Bestest Friend Ever’, I’m voting for President.”

    He, like all the other people I know who are feeling the Bern, will vote for Hillary in the general election and said as much. But Dogdamn I got tired of arguing over this ‘corrupt primary sh!t’.

    After all that, we argued over the pluses and minuses of being an Indepedent v a Democrat, which was really funny because he has always voted Dem. It was a good time.

  11. 11
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I just don’t get the independent shit with folk who always vote for Democrats. Do they think that there are dues? There aren’t. Do they think some will call you for money? I’ve been a register Democrat for nearly 40 years, never happened. Do they think that someone will call them to DO something? Again, hasn’t happened in the last 40 years.

  12. 12
    MJS says:

    To paraphrase a certain reptilian wingnut, “(If Hillary is indicted) Bernie Sanders will be our nominee, and we will lose.”

  13. 13
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Lost the edit function here. Was going to add at the end

    * I do not dislike Hillary either. I have long respected her and this primary has me appreciating her more and more with each passing state, but like/dislike really doesn’t go into the calculation.

  14. 14
    MJS says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA: It’s just so much cooler to say, “I’m an independent” than to say “I’m a Democrat” thereby admitting you actually care about people.

  15. 15
    rikyrah says:

    Good Morning 😅, Everyone 😁

  16. 16
    Baud says:

    That’s not rigged, I think it’s just a dumb process which has certainly disadvantaged our campaign.”…

    The best example of our dumb process is Washington. Bernie won the caucus with 70% of the vote but lost the primary to Hillary. But even though the turnout for the primary was double that for the caucus, it’s the caucus results that are used to allocate delegates.

  17. 17
    Keith G says:

    This is the upside of letting the process play out. Bernie is convincing more and more observers (as well as many one time supporters) that he is not a grand innovator and author of a social movement. More and more, he is seeming to be a brittle, one-trick pony.

    Sind a long, mate:

    ♪ ♫You gotta know when to hold them; know when to fold them…. ♪ ♫

    @Damien: The folks I talk to (politically moderate Democrats) know that given what is known, it is unlikely that HRC would face charges. They are exasperated that it seems once again, that she either lied or stretched the ‘truth’ beyond a workable meaning of the word. (Shades of, “I did not have sex with that woman.”) A question is formed: How will this seemingly repetitive behavior manifest itself in a Clinton presidency.

    That is Hilary’s real problem – not some fantasized, future frog march.

  18. 18
    Baud says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA: They don’t want to be associated with one or more of the groups that make up the Dem coalition.

  19. 19
    Baud says:

    @Keith G:

    They are exasperated that it seems once again, that she either lied or stretched the ‘truth’ beyond a workable meaning of the word. (Shades of, “I did not have sex with that woman.”)

    How so?

  20. 20
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA: It was a ridiculous argument between 2 died in the wool yellow dog Dems. Tim is a Dem. Has always been a Dem. When asked, he will say he is a Dem. Funny enuf, it was one of the few arguments I indisputably “won”. I said that it was fine to be an Independent when you are a senator from a small NE state, (INSULT INSULT!!!) but that when you are President you need a party to back you up. Hillary has been a Dem her entire life, Bernie has never been a Dem. Hillary has been investing in those relationships for a long time, and Bernie never has. And when it comes time for the difficult votes, the ones that might cost them their seats, Democratic Sens and Reps will know that she will be there for them as best she can because she has in the past.

    Bernie never has.

  21. 21
    Keith G says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Yeah, not having access to editing this early in the morning is humbling.

  22. 22
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    is that you have closed primaries, like in New York State, where three million people who were Democrats or Republicans could not participate,

    Obama lost the NY primary in 2008 by 17 points and he never once whined.

    Dopey Sanders and his white male entitlement/resentment. Sad.

  23. 23
    The Thin Black Duke says:

    @Keith G: It’s only a “problem” in the minds of the people who have already decided not to vote for her.

  24. 24
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Baud: …and isn’t kinda dumb to sign up for a process that YOU KNOW IS DUMB?

  25. 25
    Baud says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA: It’s the only process, so no.

    What’s dumb is that when you take everything into account, the process actually benefitted Bernie more than it hurt him.

  26. 26
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Baud: I guess my response to that is grow the fuck up!

  27. 27
    MJS says:

    I see Trump is yet again using the term “unfair” or some variation, this time to complain about the judge in the lawsuit against Trump “University” (gag reflex engaged). I’ve not heard that term used so much since 3rd grade dodgeball.

  28. 28
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Baud: Yup, he’d be done now if the rules were, say like the Republicans.

  29. 29
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    Why can’t the New York Mets and New York Yankees pick out the line-up for the Boston Red Sox? Oh yeah, they’re not part of the team.

    Sanders would never let Republicans, Democrats, and Independents pick the Socialist party candidate. He would scream bloody murder if the tables were turned.

  30. 30
    Keith G says:

    @Baud: The IS report has a different view of events (and process) than Hillary provided in her explanations. One of those two parties is situated firmly in the land o’ the truth. One is not.

  31. 31
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @MJS: Re Trump, I defer to the kid’s judgement; “he’s a clown”.

  32. 32
    Baud says:

    @Keith G: Can you give me an example?

  33. 33
    Baud says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA: If they could do that, they’d be Democrats.

  34. 34
    Cat48 says:

    I just want Hillary bc she did a good job as SOS. I like FP so I watched her closely. She did a good job & received good press overseas. She has stature that you cant buy.

  35. 35
    Keith G says:

    @The Thin Black Duke: Well, the meta problem is more significant. Trust is part of the currency that buys those votes. I am willing to vote for HRC even though I trust her less than any Dem candidate for president that I have cast a vote for (edit = trust at the time of the vote). I carry the optimism that she will find the plot and be better in the future. You know….her chance at a grand legacy…and all that

    Others, not so much.

  36. 36
    PurpleGirl says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Glad you had good time. Yes, I don’t know why people “register” as independents and then always vote D. Maybe they don’t want to be taken for granted. But the way you do that is to be active in the local party structure.

  37. 37
    amk says:

    @The Thin Black Duke: Exactly. The concern trolling is just an excuse.

  38. 38
    Really? says:

    0355 – Only one still awake, watching Akira, and that goddamn Robin is already singing.

  39. 39
    Chyron HR says:

    Why doesn’t Bernie just file a lawsuit to ban Hillary from attending the convention because of her obvious conflict of interest? Then the Democrats will HAVE to nominate him, right?

  40. 40
    satby says:

    This concept of having to personally “like” a politician eludes me. Just as Ozark said, I’m not voting for a new buddy to hang out with. I’m voting for the candidate that I think will advance the political agenda I want the most. And no matter how much press any public person gets, we don’t “know” them at all really. We think we know them; but then millions of people still “know” that President Obama is a non citizen Muslim, and they believe that based on what they believe media has told them. Yes, biased media; truth is all of it is biased just in what they choose to air as well as how they report it.

  41. 41
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    I’m having dinner with madame and the soon to be former nursing student, of the three of us; I’m the only one with black hair(the dye job went well). Madame has brown hair with a redish tint, the kid has blond hair.

  42. 42
    MJS says:

    @Keith G: It’s exceedingly sad that so many of the electorate have apparently accepted the narrative that HRC is not to be trusted. Exactly how many phony “scandals” will it take for them to understand that “Clinton scandal” equals viewers and listeners for the media, which means they’re going to tell you about one, even though there is never any “there” there?

  43. 43
    Cat48 says:

    @Chyron HR:

    I think he just plans on blowing up the convention every way possible since he cant win. Then we cant win in the Fall.

  44. 44
    Jeffro says:

    @MJS: I was just about to say the same thing. Lots of air quote “Independents” I know are air quote “Independents” just so that they can claim to be above/smarter than all this silly “party” nonsense. And yet invariably 90% of them vote reliably for one party or the other.

    When they get snooty about it, I tell them I’ve done my homework, know my values, and those line up with the Democrats. It takes a crazy person or a criminal to get me to vote otherwise, and even then unless the Republican is a known moderate, I write something in.

  45. 45
    Keith G says:

    @MJS: Yes there certainly are phony scenarios that have been spun.

  46. 46
    Baud says:

    @Jeffro:

    When they get snooty about it, I tell them I’ve done my homework, know my values, and those line up with the Democrats. It takes a crazy person or a criminal to get me to vote otherwise, and even then unless the Republican is a known moderate, I write something in.

    This. Me too

  47. 47
    Raven says:

    @Jeffro: You mean “it don’t mean nuthin”? I would have never guessed !

  48. 48
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Jeffro:

    It takes a crazy person or a criminal to get me to vote otherwise, and even then unless the Republican is a known moderate, I write somethingBaud! in.

    Fixed it for ya.

  49. 49
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Heh. That is funny.

  50. 50
    Baud says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA: He said he wouldn’t vote for a crazy person or a criminal.

  51. 51
    Chris T. says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    I just don’t get the independent shit with folk who always vote for Democrats. Do they think that there are dues? There aren’t. Do they think some will call you for money?

    Years ago, I experimented with registering for different parties in California.

    In my experience, the Republicans do hit you up for stuff. I got a heavily skewed “survey” on Bill Clinton and such, ending with a “send us money” plea…

  52. 52
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Jeffro:

    I know are air quote “Independents” just so that they can claim to be above/smarter than all this silly “party” nonsense.

    Heh. Were you listening in on our conversation?

  53. 53
    J. says:

    Bernie knew going into all this, or should have known, how the election process works. And if he really wanted to change the system, or shake it up, he should have stayed true to himself and run as an Independent. I know: But the system is rigged! An Independent can’t win! Closed primaries! Sorry Bernie, but when you agree to play a game with a known set of rules, you’re expected to play by the rules — and are penalized when you don’t (unless your name is Draymond Green).

  54. 54
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Chris T.: I get stuff from the Dems every election and they always ask for money. It is not a big deal, I just put it in the round file along with all the other junk mail.

  55. 55
    Jeffro says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: almost sounds like it, doesn’t it? It’s probably more common of a conversation than we think.

  56. 56
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @J.:

    And if he really wanted to change the system,

    Said this a long time ago and it bears repeating, if he really wanted to change the system, he should have joined the party back in ’92 when he first came to DC. Instead he chose to ride his purity pony in has own one man parade. Which is fine, if all he ever wants to be is a senator from a small NE state.

  57. 57
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    from the above photos I see Sanders is campaigning for the poor and downtrodden in Santa Barbara were average family net worth is $735,427

    were to next, the French Rivera?

  58. 58
    Jeffro says:

    @Baud: But…Baud! told me the charges were dropped??!

    LOL

    Hey at least now I have a go-to write in if I can’t think of anything on the spur of the moment!

  59. 59
    Baud says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: This is not a knock on Sanders, but I don’t think he cares all that much about the primary process. It’s a pretty dry thing to care about unless you’re a committed Dem.

  60. 60
    Chris T. says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I’m pretty sure it varies by state, since each party is run independently in each state. And, it’s possible I have had stuff from the Dems that I tossed without recognizing/remembering. Don’t remember any fundraiser stuff from the Lolbertarians either. The Repubs stick in my mind for some reason, level of sleaziness perhaps….

  61. 61
    Really? says:

    Sun’s gonna be up in like twenty minutes —

    http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblo.....-gang-pt-v

    c. 1815 — Imagine having someone explain what the intertubes actually is *bong rip* and that’s not even including the pr0n. No better time to be alive except right this second

  62. 62
    JWR says:

    I became eligible to vote back in 1976, and registered, on my high school campus, as a solid Dem. But after the vote to start our disastrous War of Aggression against Iraq, (thanks, Hillary! Grr), I re-registered as “Unaffiliated”, because I was so pissed off. It wasn’t a problem in 2008, when I voted for Obama in both the primary and in the general, but this time around, after finding that I wouldn’t be able to vote in the primary, I re-registered as a Dem, just so I could vote against the Bern.

  63. 63
    Schlemazel Khan says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA:
    HA! Thats funny because I write my oldest boys name in for some of those running unopposed.

    Dang, I don’t recall an early morning thread having this many comments this early on a Sunday. Apparently the Bernster can draw a crowd even here

  64. 64
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Baud: Yep. It is just an excuse for why he is losing.

  65. 65
    D58826 says:

    @Baud: No No you don’t understand. In Bernieball, like Calvinball, the rules are the rules as long as they benefit Bernie. And if they don’t then change them to benefit Bernie, retroactively.

  66. 66
    Schlemazel Khan says:

    @Chris T.:
    In the 80s we lived in a Republican district & our Congressman would send us 2 pieces of mail every election year. About June we would get a survey with questions like, “Should the defense budget be increased or should we just let the commies rule the earth?” YES/NO and “Should welfare be cut to curtail all the fraud and mismanagement?” YES/NO

    I would always answered the “wrong” way just to piss him off. But then, in October the second piece would arrive showing the results and how 90% of the people in his district support his views on how the country should be run.

  67. 67
    henqiguai says:

    @Keith G(#17):

    They are exasperated that it seems once again, that she either lied or stretched the ‘truth’ beyond a workable meaning of the word.

    You want to explain this claim? Otherwise your friends are just vomiting up Republican lies in their own right.

    ETA: nevermind, Baud at #19 already asked…

  68. 68
    SFAW says:

    @Baud:

    He said he wouldn’t vote for a crazy person or a criminal.

    But if you are both, isn’t that like a double-negative, cancels out his reasons not to, and thus he’ll vote for you?

    Not saying that you ARE, of course.

    At least, not until the jury decides.

  69. 69
    Chris T. says:

    @Schlemazel Khan: Few things piss me off more than fake polls.

    I’m not sure if it was just coincidence of timing, but when I lived in Utah I used to get phone push-polls all the time. Now I have only a cell phone anyway though.

  70. 70
    Kathleen says:

    Chuck Todd’s wife is co founder of Maverick Media, which has made lots of money from the Sanders campaign:

    http://salaryandnetworth.com/m.....huck-todd/

    Aren’t “journalists” supposed to “disclose” stuff like that? Oh, wait, Chuck Todd isn’t a “journalist”.

  71. 71
    MJS says:

    @JWR: “Thanks Hillary”? I think your ire was (is?) misplaced.

  72. 72
    germy says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I get stuff from the Dems every election and they always ask for money. It is not a big deal, I just put it in the round file

    when Obama first ran for president (seems like a million years ago now) we donated money. Somehow our email address got around and now we get several emails a day from a variety of people like DWS, Joe Biden (!), Michelle Obama, etc. asking us to sign a card or donate more money.

    What bothered me was when we got a scam phone call from a gentlemen who’d obviously checked our public records and decided to call us (when Obama was running for his second term) for a donation. I did a quick google check of his phone number and it came up with a million complaints about various financial scams. He insisted we give him our credit card number to expedite the process.

    My wife told him to mail us something and she’d write him a check. He kept insisting on getting our credit card info, so I finally took the phone and told him to go f**k himself.

    After that we got hang up calls several times a day, and more appeals for “charity” from other voices (same phone number) until we finally disconnected our landline.

    It’s not so much the legit political fundraisers, it’s the crooks and scammers.
    Although, in the case of the GOP i suppose they’re one and the same.

  73. 73
    PurpleGirl says:

    @MJS: I heard this morning that he’s calling for the judge to recuse himself because he’s biased against Trump because of what Trump has said about Mexicans. (The judge being of Mexican extraction…)

  74. 74
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Chris T.: Most of them, or at least the ones I take note of, come from the DNC. Not sure how they got my name since we don’t have party declarations on registering to vote but I suspect the state tracks which primary one votes in.(I never receive anything from Repubs). Possibly because I am that rarest of rarities, a yellow dog Dem in out state MO, they take more notice of me.

  75. 75
    trnc says:

    … “What has upset me, and what I think is — I wouldn’t use the word ‘rigged’ because we knew what the rules were — but what is really dumb, is that you have closed primaries, like in New York State, where three million people who were Democrats or Republicans could not participate,” Sanders added.

    I wish all primaries were closed. Let democrats choose democrats. If an independent wants to vote in the primary, register as a dem before the primary and change back to indie after.

  76. 76
    germy says:

    @PurpleGirl: “One simple trick to get your case thrown out of court! Judges hate it!”

    Brilliant. Wish I’d thought of it. Insult the judge, then claim the judge is biased because he feels insulted.

  77. 77
    Chris T. says:

    Speaking of sleazy phone polls … I got one once regarding local hospitals. Eventually, reading between the lines of the questions being asked plus stuff I’d seen earlier in the business section of the local news, I realized what it was about. Tenet Healthcare had bought several hospitals and was closing one. They wanted to keep the most lucrative practices (obstetrics and heart operations, mainly) coming, so they wanted to know which name was more trusted.

    I named a third hospital instead, and also pointed out to the phone survey taker that after the next big earthquake, we’d want more beds, not fewer. Something she hadn’t though of….

    (I’m sure they threw my results away as a useless outlier, alas. :-) )

  78. 78
    RSA says:

    @satby:

    I’m voting for the candidate that I think will advance the political agenda I want the most.

    I’m this way, too. I tell my Bernie-loving friends that I do support most of Bernie’s goals, at least what I imagine them to be, given all their ambiguity. (For example, how much of his health plan works at the federal versus state level?)

    If politics were a matter of the person at the top saying, “Make it so,” then I’d be more inclined to vote for him. (Of course, that wouldn’t be very democratic.) In the end, it’s not clear to me that Bernie’s capable of getting what he wants, if he were President.

  79. 79
    debbie says:

    Sort of disappointing not to see pictures of flowers on a Sunday morning.

  80. 80
    MJS says:

    @PurpleGirl: Maybe,maybe this will get the media to acknowledge the fact that he’s currently in court accused of being a scam artist? Instead of their fever-dreams of a Hillary indictment? Maybe?

  81. 81
    Really? says:

    @Kathleen: Gawd I detest that schmuck. If anybody should have their undeserved rise to prominence marred by dead girl/live boy it’s “My man Chuck Todd, always the caretaker.”

    Charlie Pierce must be spinning in his grave!

  82. 82
    trnc says:

    @Chris T.:
    I might be inclined to agree with you, but I need to wait until someone else can tell me to in the form of a question.

  83. 83
    Immanentize says:

    @Baud: i’ve got money riding on “no.”

    Meanwhile, happy Sunday all. In non-Sanders world, in the middle of last night our faithful feline friend Mr. Toasty McCat caught a bat in our bedroom. Chaos followed, bat was vanquished, yea Toast!

  84. 84
    Really? says:

    Hmm, the “Internet Movie Firearms Database.”

    I’ve never heard of it before an hour ago and now I’ve referred to it twice. (Why would the Japanese use British assault rifles? –> “Cause they look cool.”)

    God Bless the Interwebs!

  85. 85
    MJS says:

    @Immanentize: Happy Sunday to you, too, but boo Toasty. We need all the bats we have

  86. 86
    satby says:

    @Really?: Pierce isn’t dead.

  87. 87
    D58826 says:

    Bernie keeps telling us how he can get things done in the face of a recalcitrant GOP Congress. Well here is something that he can get specific about. He is opposed to the Puerto Rico bailout billing working it’s way thru Congress. (Note to Bernie Puerto Rico is a commonwealth not a colony and its people are American citizens). It looks like the vulture hedge funds get the gold and the citizens get the shaft under this legislation. So President Sanders after you veto the bill what executive (or revolutionary) action will you take fix the problem. The new Congress isn’t going to be any more co-operative than the old so don’t expect a better outcome there. It’s on you man..

  88. 88
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @germy: My ex did that on more than one occasion.

  89. 89
    Baud says:

    @Immanentize:

    Cat vs. Bat: The Ultimate Showdown!

  90. 90
    Schlemazel Khan says:

    @Immanentize:
    That is a heck of a trick toasty pulled off! We had a bat in the house a couple years ago and it drove the cats nuts but they never got close to it. We managed to get it into a small bedroom and when it landed I covered it with a bucket and got it outdoors. For the cat to catch it toasty must be a superb hunter even by cat standards

  91. 91
    Really? says:

    @satby: yeah but satire sure as hell is!

    ETA: “Bork you are a Federal Agent! You represent the United States Government! Never end a sentence on a preposition!”

  92. 92
    D58826 says:

    @Really?: do you mean Tim Russert? or maybe Edward R Morrow (different network but still…)

  93. 93
    Baud says:

    @D58826: I think he knows something.

  94. 94
    Schlemazel Khan says:

    @satby:
    Really I think they meant to say Todd should be spinning in his grave

    Is that unkind? It is a bit nasty but my meter is broken from too many trips on the Internet

  95. 95
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Immanentize: Poor bat.

  96. 96
    Chris T. says:

    @D58826:Hmm…

    It looks like the vulture hedge funds get the gold and the citizens get the shaft under this legislation.

    Speaking of this, does anyone have a reasonable, unbiased analysis of what’s in whichever proposals are out there?

  97. 97
    Matt McIrvin says:

    There’s this powerful notion in US politics going right back to the beginning of the republic that political parties are somehow bad, and you shouldn’t associate yourself with them if you’re a good or clever person. I think there are a few different versions of it.

    There’s the idea that a party is just sort of a stupid arbitrary association like a football team that stupid people cheer for, and politics as conceived by smart people should be detached philosopher-kings of no team affiliation discussing the great issues of the day on the basis of Pure Reason. This is more or less the version that the Founding Fathers were infected by, until they actually passed a Constitution and started immediately forming political parties, mucking up their own system which had been designed with the assumption that there would be none. Today it manifests as centrist High Broderism.

    There’s the party as dirty vehicle for corruption and patronage, which I guess comes from old 19th- and 20th-century machine politics. This at least has history justifying it, but it’s not as if you can’t get that in other ways. Taken to its logical extreme it’s a rejection of any kind of organized collective action because the organization might become corrupt. Hatred of unions is often along the same lines.

    And then there are the people who want European-style parties with much more sharply defined ideologies, and are upset with the parties we’ve got because they are broad organizations whose cores are much more moderate than they would like. These people are basically upset that we don’t have a parliamentary government. If we did have a parliamentary government, they’d be upset that their favorite party enters into coalitions.

  98. 98
    Schlemazel Khan says:

    @D58826:
    Russert? one of the most obsequious, toadys in the news game? The guy who enabled Cheney’s smear of Valery Plame? He luvs him some Chuckie Toddler. Murrow maybe but if he were alive today he would kill himself in shame for ever having shared the title ‘newsman’ with these infantile assholes.

  99. 99
    Baud says:

    @Chris T.: I’m going to guess “no.”

  100. 100
    Really? says:

    It’s a hushed tale of my Greatest Google Search Ever –> gimmebackmysockyougoatbastard

    “My God, My God, what will the country say with all the vacuuminng I have to do.”

  101. 101
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Immanentize: I has a sad. I like bats. You should say a few words to soften his/her ill-timed passing.

  102. 102
    Baud says:

    @Matt McIrvin: Good points.

  103. 103
    AnonPhenom says:

    negotiations are a bitch. game recognize game.
    maybe they should offer Bernie majority leader if they take back the Senate.
    It’d be nice to see him pound on McConnell & Co. like this.

  104. 104
    Immanentize says:

    @MJS: I am very pro-bat, but I am also pro cat. I think maybe a group of bats has chosen our eaves or attic….

    Meanwhile, on charges against Hillary — I have almost no faith in “Cops don’t do their jobs because cell phones” Comey. But the FBI does not charge anyone. US Attorneys do. I think the classic Clinton hater scenario would be Comey’s FBI would release some inappropriate or leaked vaguely critical document/report which then becomes the basis for 24/7 outrage calling for indictments and hangings. But I just don’t even see that happening….

  105. 105
    liberal says:

    @Cat48: absolutely bang-up job she did with Libya!

  106. 106
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Chris T.: The Congressional Budget Office used to be one, but once the GOP took over the House it was mandated that they use Paul Ryan’s Magic Math ™ (otherwise known as ‘dynamic scoring’) to evaluate all bills before the House. So, no.

  107. 107
    Really? says:

    See, the people I will-very-shortly-have-to-deal-with, they’re mostly for Clinton, mostly. There are, of course, one or two notable exceptions. And their friends down the line are largely for Clinton excepting one or two holdfasts. (eta: my aunt is the least political person I know and she’s ‘Hillary or you’re disowned!!”)

    It’s all academic but the trend certainly appears to favor Hillz.

  108. 108
    Ultraviolet Thunder says:

    @Really?:

    Charlie Pierce must be spinning in his grave!

    Wikipedia sez no.

  109. 109
    MJS says:

    Well, I wouldn’t want bats living in my house, but on the bright side, you should be relatively mosquito free this summer. Re: Hillary, the media requires something to froth about, so if it’s something Colin Powell did too, she’ll be able to survive it, no sweat.

  110. 110
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    Your Trump Presidency in a nut shell:

    According to USA Today, Trump told the audience in Fresno, California that water was actually being withheld from people like farmers, but that the drought was not responsible. “We’re going to solve your water problem. You have a water problem that is so insane. It is so ridiculous where they’re taking the water and shoving it out to sea,” Trump said according to USA Today. Trump said that if he were president, he’d have a simple solution.

    “If I win, believe me, we’re going to start opening up the water so that you can have your farmers survive,” Trump said according to USA Today.

    Governance by internet rumor.

  111. 111
    Immanentize says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: We had a bat in the house earlier this winter and we were able to use an old fishing net and get it out a window. We think they came in for the warmth but thought they left this spring. My neighbor and I even put up a nice bat house on this fabulous black walnut tree he has to encourage the population here in the urb-burbs. I guess they haven’t left, so we will probably have to get a bat guy to come to move the group if we don’t want a repeat. Here they find the entry point and attach neat little out-only covers so that when the bats fly out for their evening dinner, they can’t return and need to find a new space.

    Or maybe we will just live with bats for a while.

  112. 112
    MJS says:

    @liberal: Because we all know President McCain’s SoS would have been advocating staying out of it.

  113. 113
    Cat48 says:

    @liberal:

    The president is CIC and gives orders to troops, not the SOS.

  114. 114
    p.a. says:

    Brown men’s D1 lacrosse team lost yesterday to Maryland 15-14 in OT, BUT Bear’s best player (best offensive player in nation) was hurt and playing at 50%, AND the on-field temp was 100 deg f while NOT ONE of their previous games was over 75 deg. AND Ivy schools just don’t have the depth of public colleges, and bears made many uncharacteristic unforced to’s SOOOOOO I fully expect to see the Bears on the field Monday in the nat’l championship v UNC. Sorry UMd.

    BernieRulesBeotchies! Go Bruno!

  115. 115
    Ultraviolet Thunder says:

    @AnonPhenom:

    maybe they should offer Bernie majority leader if they take back the Senate.

    As a consolation prize for trying to game the system and failing? I doubt there will be much sentiment for treating Bernie sympathetically unless he busts his can from day one to get HRC and Dems down ticket elected. Even then definitely not a leadership position. Those go to long time party stalwarts, not late arrivals who spent long careers attacking the two party system from their ivory tower of purity.

  116. 116
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Immanentize:

    I am very pro-bat, but I am also pro cat.

    In the cat v bat war, it’s the Zika infested mosquitoes who win.

    @MJS: The guano can get to be a little stinky. Trust me, I’ve crawled thru more than my share of piles of it over the years.

  117. 117
    Jack the Second says:

    So my first problem with the email server is that people expect me to care about it. Al Capone may have gone away for tax evasion, but no one gave a fuck that he was invading taxes. The right wing has been claiming for decades that Hillary Clinton is personally guilty of murder, racketeering, some light treason, and now they expect me to actually care about an email server being run in a way that was discouraged by the IT policy?

    My second problem is with people who thing that Hillary Clinton must actually be guilty of something because she’s been accused of literally every crime and character failing by the right wing over the last thirty years.

    Frankly, if Hillary Clinton is actually guilty of something after the amount of scrutiny that has been placed upon her, the millions of hours of investigations, the depositions, the grillings before Congress, and not one charge has managed to stick, my god, she is a perfect (conspiratorial) leader! Tricky Dick’s malfeasance didn’t remain secret long enough for him to actually accomplish anything, Iran-Contra was uncovered in short order, Bush’s lies to start the Iraq War and the whole “torture” thing didn’t last his Presidency, even if no prosecutions resulted.

    And yet Clinton has avoided having any of her 374 high crimes and misdemeanors pinned on her? The only thing they were able to prove conclusively was that Bill got a blow job and didn’t want to admit to it on national TV?

    Do you have any idea what kind of leadership skills that requires? How historically unique and amazing that would make Hillary Clinton? And you don’t want her to be President with that kind of resume?

  118. 118
    Really? says:

    @Cat48: See that’s the thing. Its that “A soldier can look his Emperor in the eye” bullshit.

    The U.S. becoming a dictatorship appears to be something that’s going to happen no matter how hard we try to deny it.

  119. 119
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Immanentize: Bats are notoriously fickle about where they roost. I have friends with bat houses that are in use. My sons made me one for my b-day 5 years ago and I put it up immediately, followed all the hints on placement and I have yet to have a bat use it. :-(

  120. 120
    Immanentize says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Up here near Boston, we thankfully do not have the type of mosquitos that carry Zika. But we do sadly have a huge number of the ticks that carry Lyme disease. Nothing is scarier as a hiking parent than to find a tick on your youngster after a beautiful walk in the woods. Then you watch and wait.

  121. 121
  122. 122
    D58826 says:

    @Immanentize: Disclaimer – neither lawyer or gov’t insider.

    That being said I imagine AG Lynch is keeping a close watch on this. I will give Comy enough credit, if only to protect the FBI’s reputation, that if there was the remotest chance of an indictment he would have talked to the AG. The AG would have talked to Obama. Obama would have quietly passed the word through a Clinton loyalist, that maybe there are family obligations she should attend to.

    While it does seem like a death watch, and certainly gives the Bernie deadenders hope, it seems the longer this goes on the less likely an indictment is. First of all if they haven’t found a ‘blue dress’ by now I don’t think one exists. Second Comy knows full well that a recommendation for an indictment at this late stage would be the electoral equivalent of the asteroid that took out the dinosaurs. We are 2 weeks from the end of primary season and 4 weeks from the convention. If something had come down late last year or before the primaries started it would be different. The democrats would have had time to regroup. If Bernie was the front runner it would be different. Bernie is already talking (again) that if she is indicted the democrats should turn to him and not Biden (a point that I agree with).

    But whatever the FBI finds it will not stop the ‘scandal’ industry. Judicial Watch will continue filling FOIA/suits hoping to find the blue dress. Heck their business model is ‘sue the Clintons’. My sister is convinced that Obama will shut down the investigation and then use the information to blackmail Hillary into appointing him to the supreme Court.

  123. 123
    MJS says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I read somewhere that it’s a strong ammonia-like smell but have no interest in finding out first hand. Sadly, I see very few bats these days. Used to be a lot, and far fewer mosquitoes

  124. 124
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Jack the Second: If I had been investigated as thoroughly relentlessly as Hillary, I’d probably be doing life w/o parole for something or other.

  125. 125
    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism says:

    @Immanentize: It’s easy to get the bats to move out if so. We had a pro wildlife remover do it, but if you’re not afraid of heights….

    1. Close off all exits except one. Tack a large piece of a flexible screening over the exit, leaving a long tail open at the bottom so they can get out in the evening. I want to say he left about two feet hanging past the bottom of the roof vent.

    2. Mount a bat house beside the exit they’ve been using so they have an alternate place to roost.

    3. Wait a couple of days, inspect the attic. If they’ve all left, tack down the opening in the screen.

    Apparently, they won’t land on the wall and climb up under the screen to get back into the attic. We watched the first night the screen was up and lost count at more than two dozen.

    Our roof vents had interior screens behind the louvers. The bats were roosting on that screen, so we only had to deal with the one exit.

    I love bats.

  126. 126
    D58826 says:

    @Jack the Second: Totally agree. As president she will use her green lantern skills to reduce Putin, the ayatollahs and Kim to little piles of grey ash. Bibi will become a whimpering lap dog. THEN she will deal with Ryan and Turtle. Definitely worth the campaign contributions.

  127. 127
    gene108 says:

    @Damien:

    Al Giordano’s headline quote is a nice summary of several DKos diaries about Hillary’s email server. I swear, a lot of people seem convinced the FBI is going to frog March Clinton any day now.

    Sad thing is Trump is actually in a court case, at the moment, which he could lose.

    Yet everyone acts like Hillary is on trial.

    ******************************

    Visiting my mom this weekend. Brother and his family came too. Very nice weekend so far.

    Going to meet my sister-in-laws grandmother for lunch and I think that is about it for the day.

  128. 128
    beth says:

    Sitting in Newark waiting for a plane (tks newsmedia and twitter for scaring me into getting here over two hours early because of a non-existent security line) and noticing that all the gift shops are selling Trump t-shirts but no Hillary shirts for sale. If I was Peggy Noonan, this would be a clear sign that we are in for President Trump.

  129. 129
    Ultraviolet Thunder says:

    Unlike other so-called ‘vermin’, many insurance companies will indemnify a homeowner for bat damage and losses. Not so rats, bedbugs, roaches, etc. My dad found this out when he had a protracted legal battle over his house after he rented it out.

  130. 130
    Really? says:

    @D58826: Consarn it! How many times must is be said that this email/nothingburger bullshit does not play!?

    Christ, my folks are the NBC/CBS 5 o’clock news type and they were for Bill during the BJ epic. The most we’ve made of it was “Hillary or your father is sleeping on the rockery!” like that time when you watched “Naked Gun” as a child and you didn’t quite get why mom laughed so hard at ‘nice beaver!’

  131. 131
    kd bart says:

    I notice nothing about Caucuses in Sanders’ comments. The most restrictive form of voting. Obviously, those are fair because he won the majority of them.

  132. 132
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Immanentize:

    Nothing is scarier as a hiking parent than to find a tick on your youngster after a beautiful walk in the woods.

    I raised my sons in the woods/on the rivers/under the ground and ticks were a not uncommon experience. It is just a thing, like one’s asthmatic child (my youngest) breathing polluted air in the city. You deal with it. I know a # of people who’ve gotten it and as long as you are paying attention and get to a doc at the first symptoms it is, so far, not a big deal. When Lyme starts developing resistance to antibiotics that will change.

  133. 133
    Immanentize says:

    @Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: Wow! Thank you! I love ballon juice commenters. But. I am not sure where they are getting in so Like you we will probably call in a professional.

  134. 134
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: LOL – that’s the plot of “Chinatown

    Gittes deduces that the water department is drying the land so it can be bought at a reduced price, and that Mulwray was murdered when he discovered the plan.

  135. 135
    Kathleen says:

    @Really?: I can’t stand him either. What a tool. Glad to see Obama zing him at the Nerd Prom.

  136. 136
    gene108 says:

    @Ultraviolet Thunder:

    As a consolation prize for trying to game the system and failing? I doubt there will be much sentiment for treating Bernie sympathetically unless he busts his can from day one to get HRC and Dems down ticket.

    The only down ticket races I have heard of him supporting are left-wing primary opponents to Democratic incumbents.

    Won’t win him any favors.

  137. 137
    debbie says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Probably the most effective thing Clinton can do is to constantly ask Trump how he will accomplish something. All he ever says is what. Continually focusing on his lack of substance will do more than any wonky response (like Gore did)

  138. 138
    D58826 says:

    @Really?: I agree its nothing but until the FBI report comes in and says the same thing it won’t go away(and for the wingnuts it will never go away). As Bernie’s friends have said here over and over there is only one democratic candidate under FBI investigation and it isn’t Bernie.

  139. 139
    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism says:

    @Immanentize: When we had our chiropteran guests, the usual way to handle them was still killing and removing the nest. We got a recommendation from our local Wild Birds Unlimited; they had been having educators come in for pro-bat talks for the previous year or so.

    Hard to believe how much attitudes have changed in the past decade or so.

  140. 140
    Baud says:

    @D58826: Agree. Manufacturered politics is still politics. The question is whether we deal with it by cringing in a corner or being confident and aggressive.

  141. 141
    MikeBoyScout says:

    You say you want a revolution
    Well, you know
    We all want to change the world

    But if you’re still wearing t-shirts screamin ‘feel the Bern’
    It ain’t for the principals but for the people he spurns

    Don’t you know know it’s gonna be alright
    Alright, alright

  142. 142
    Aimai says:

    @Keith G: jesus christ what lazy thinking. Name Two real instances that Hrc proved untrustworthy in a meaningful, political, sense? Like said she sould do something and yhen voluntarily renigged on a pledge? Like lied to a counterparty in political negotiations? Like falsified her awards, education, or intentions? Its literally sickening that democrats are willing to traffic in these lazy, stupid, right wing memes.

  143. 143
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Immanentize: Ticks have actually embed for a while for you to get sick. If you go out in the day and find a tick that night, there is basically nothing to worry about.

  144. 144
    Aimai says:

    @Aimai: renegged? Of course.

  145. 145
    Really? says:

    So here’s’ the thing — My father is the middle child @70. retired machinist, his older brother (eta; ex0navy worked for Lockheed) is a recent widow and does Corvettes and that’s his whole life. Both are nominally for Hillz.

    Their younger brother, my uncle I spent two weeks in yuma, az (one hunnerd and fiffuckingteen degrees) is for Trump. He’s an isolated loner that married a decade ago but the whole thing went to hell when her ~35yr old daughter, mother of two, was killed in a head-on crash years ago. Her husband took the kids and left, she divorced my uncle and now he’s for Trump.

  146. 146
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @Jeffro:

    It takes a crazy person or a criminal to get me to vote otherwise, and even then unless the Republican is a known moderate, I write something in.

    And even then one can be taken in. Case in point, the 1966 MD gubernatorial election, when the Democratic candidate was, if not overtly racist, at least willing to use racism for the sake of winning (he won the primary when the state AG and Congressman-at-large split the nonwhackjob vote), & clearly incompetent. MD Democrats went over to the GOP candidate, the incumbent Baltimore County Executive (who owed that job to divisions in the county Democratic Party), a moderate Rockefeller Republican.

    Or so they thought. His name? Spiro Agnew.

    Ah well. As Heraclitus put it,

    All men are deceived by the appearance of things, even Homer himself who was the wisest man in Greece; for he was deceived by boys catching lice: they said to him, “What we have caught and what we have killed we have left behind, but what has escaped us we bring with us.”

    Which is the prefatory note to a volume of poetry by my Poifick Master & Hero of the Zeitgeist…

  147. 147
    D58826 says:

    @Aimai:

    sickening that democrats are willing to traffic in these lazy, stupid, right wing memes.

    Agree with this. As for two instances, one comes to mind – the under sniper file comment. It didn’t amount to a pile of beans but the wing nuts keep repeating it. For the non-political junkies it takes on the aspect of where there is smoke there must be fire. Of course it could be the little man behind the curtain with a smoke generator but most voters have more important things going on in their lives than to trace every political charge to its source. So they go with the political shorthand, and for Hillary it is ‘scandal ridden’ or ‘scandal plagued’ . And that is baggage that Hillary has to overcome somehow.

  148. 148
    Iowa Old Lady says:

    I’m in Madison, waiting for conference sessions to start. Last night, I had dinner with a friend who lives here. She and her wife are both Clinton supporters, but don’t talk about it at all with their Madison friends and neighbors who are all Berners and accuse them of being sell-outs.

  149. 149
    D58826 says:

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    being sell-outs

    This is where it gets dangerous. Rather than viewing it as just a spirited ‘more taste’ or ‘less filling’ argument within the family, it has become an argument over an existential threat. Not good for November

  150. 150
    Stella says:

    My formerly Bern-curious spouse got a GOTV call last night (Really! GOTV for the primary — will wonders never cease?) when asked if he was voting for Bernie, he said “no” and that he thought it was time for Bernie to bow out. The poor volunteer started yelling at him that the “system was rigged”. Bernie is going to have some trouble talking these folks down.

    I mailed back my primary ballot on the day that I received it. I snapped a photo to send to my mother.

  151. 151
    Jack the Second says:

    @D58826:

    My sister is convinced that Obama will shut down the investigation and then use the information to blackmail Hillary into appointing him to the supreme Court.

    I am totally OK with this.

  152. 152
    NorthLeft12 says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Yes. Very creative use of quotation marks.

    Pretty sure the “hidden” meaning will go right past a large segment of the Bernie Bros.

  153. 153
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: But give a single penny to a Democratic candidate in any election with your name & address(es) attached, & the Party will pulp entire forests to forward you endless entreaties for ca$h, incorporating the exact same sort of psychological manipulation used by the Greedy Oil Plutocracy’s mailings, only (as the chess openings manuals put it so trenchantly) “with colors reversed. “

  154. 154
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch: Your right. I didn’t even connect the 2.

  155. 155
    gindy51 says:

    @Chyron HR: Don’t give the old fart any ideas…

  156. 156
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch:

    w[h]ere to next, the French Rivera?

    On a chartered jet, with lobster sliders, Berning his small contributors for the trip, no doubt.

  157. 157
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Gin & Tonic: I have read that they have to embed for 24 hrs.

  158. 158
    Really? says:

    @Uncle Cosmo: Beaumont-sur-mer.

  159. 159
    D58826 says:

    @Jack the Second: I’m ok with the appointment part. The blackmail part verges into Alex Jones fantasy land

  160. 160
    PurpleGirl says:

    @Matt McIrvin:

    …to the beginning of the republic that political parties are somehow bad, and you shouldn’t associate yourself with them if you’re a good or clever person….

    The idea that parties are bad actually goes back to England, the monarchy and Parliament. They weren’t called Parties but the word “Factions” was used to describe people grouping themselves together to plan and then do actions to further their own agendas. Our Founding Fathers were familiar with that history and wanted to avoid the “evils of factions”.

  161. 161
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I unfortunately have come to know a fair amount about tick-borne diseases.

  162. 162
    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Hillary has been a Dem her entire life,

    But! But!! “Proud Goldwater Girl”!!11

    You can’t Trust her because she changed her mind when she was in college!111

    (roll-eyes)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  163. 163
    PurpleGirl says:

    @AnonPhenom: No way. Although Sanders has caucaused with Senate Democrats, he has held himself out as somehow purer than Democrats because he didn’t join the party. He’s spent decades being an “independent democratic socialist”. That’s not exactly loyal to any institution but himself.

  164. 164
    Glidwrith says:

    @Jeffro: One reason I registered as Independent was a survival tactic against hard core Republican family. Another was that it seemed Democrats took the more left-leaning voters for granted, but court the Independents – I saw it as a way to move the party more leftward if an Independent wanted those goals. Last, there is no down-side in California to being Independent, since I can vote straight Dem every time, so why bother?

  165. 165
    Really? says:

    “Ok, fed the bird and he’s singing like his nuts “r -> n – vice.”Evicted everybody but the missus (she’s sleeping it off) El birdo is really going at it and now I must begin sweeping. up the buds from that 200+’ tree.

    Life rules!1

  166. 166
    amk says:

    At this point, you can’t help comparing the two ‘insurgent’ candies – Obama in 2008 and BS in 2016. Be it the fund raising prowess, keeping their fans/voters under check, getting them to vote, media management, focusing on the message or finally attaining the goal. The kenyan, despite being a rookie, >>> bs in all these aspects.

  167. 167
    PurpleGirl says:

    @Aimai: Lesbian HRC had her heterosexual lover (Vince Foster) killed… //(snark)

  168. 168
    WaterGirl says:

    @The Thin Black Duke:

    Then again, that ship might have already sailed, hit an iceberg and sank.

    I love that!

  169. 169
    Davis X. Machina says:

    @PurpleGirl: We must listen to our independent betters.

    American politics won’t be fixed until:

    • We get the parties out of politics.
    • We get the politicians out of politics.
    • We get the politics out of politics.

    This will usher in the millennium….

  170. 170
    amk says:

    @Matt McIrvin:

    There’s this powerful notion in US politics going right back to the beginning of the republic that political parties are somehow bad, and you shouldn’t associate yourself with them if you’re a good or clever person. I think there are a few different versions of it.

    Really? Aren’t the voters constantly being told how the ‘country is polarized’ along the party lines? Heck, there is even pooling proof, that each party starts with a 45% floor in GE.

  171. 171
    O. Felix Culpa says:

    @Stella: We’re working on the primary GOTV for Hillary here in New Mexico, so thankfully, yes, it is a thing. The state doesn’t count for very many delegates, but every delegate (and vote) counts.

  172. 172
    D58826 says:

    On Sunday morning, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) reiterated his long-standing commitment to defeating Donald Trump in the fall, whether he is the nominee or Hillary Clinton gets that honor. But while not conceding defeat, he notably added that the responsibility for bringing his disaffected supporters into the fold – should he lose – doesn’t rest solely or even primarily with him.

    Laying the ground work for sitting out the general? Hillary didn’t beg enough.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....2j9e75jyvi

  173. 173
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @germy:

    After that we got hang up calls several times a day, and more appeals for “charity” from other voices (same phone number) until we finally disconnected our landline.

    I get the same “hang up calls” at similar frequency.

    IIUC the playbook for any organization soliciting contributions by phone (legitimate as well as scam) calls[1] for a robodialer to dial a large number[2] of telephones at once & connect the first one that answers to a human operator, while dropping the rest.

    You can deal with that quite easily via caller ID plus voicemail: answer the phone if you know who’s calling & want to talk at that moment, otherwise let it go thru to the machine.

    If you’re a real skinflint (like me), eschew the caller ID & put up a long[3] & detailed outgoing message warning the caller that you screen calls, then hover over the handset & once a caller you care to speak to at that moment starts to leave a message, pick up.

    ——-
    [1] Pun unintended but I will accept the award on behalf of my subconscious.
    [2] See [1] supra.
    [3] It’s unclear whether the robodialer can detect when a call goes to voicemail. If not, a long message goes far toward ensuring that some other sucker will pick up first & get you off the hook.[4]
    [4] See [1] supra, I think…

  174. 174
    D58826 says:

    Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.)

    Though he was a democrat now?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....2j9e75jyvi

  175. 175
    Cat48 says:

    I don’t think the FBI would have investigated Hillary unless Chuck Grassley hadn’t written letters to Comey and demanded it. Then he called Comey up twice for Hearings on the status of the investigation, which of course he couldn’t give them bc–Investigation pending. I don’t think its nonpartisan anyway?

  176. 176
    Gelfling545 says:

    @MJS: By the time my kids were six or so, whenever they would whine (because it’s always a whine) that something was unfair, I only had to give them a look. Didn’t even need to say anything. They had already memorized the answer. Life isn’t fair, kid. Deal with it. Trump’s parents ne er thought to mention that to him, I guess.

  177. 177
    chopper says:

    but what is really dumb, is that you have closed primaries, like in New York State, where three million people who were Democrats or Republicans could not participate,” Sanders added.

    yeah, let’s let goopers vote in the democratic primary. that’s a wonderful fuckin’ idea.

  178. 178
    The Thin Black Duke says:

    @D58826: : Translation: “Don’t blame me! It’s not my fault!” Jesus. The more I see of Bernie Sanders, the smaller he gets.

  179. 179
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Jack the Second: This. : )

    I for one welcome my new Madame Presidential Overlord.

    Or would that be Overlady?

  180. 180
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @amk:

    Really? Aren’t the voters constantly being told how the ‘country is polarized’ along the party lines? Heck, there is even pooling proof, that each party starts with a 45% floor in GE.

    Yes–and they’re also told that this is a terrible thing that’s wrecking the country. Even those people who vote strictly along party lines often consider themselves “independent”, because being partisan is bad. They just always vote one way because the other party is so much worse.

  181. 181
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Aimai: Amen, sister.

  182. 182
    amk says:

    @D58826:

    he notably added that the responsibility for bringing his disaffected supporters into the fold – should he lose – doesn’t rest solely or even primarily with him.

    what a fucking coward.

  183. 183
    amk says:

    @Matt McIrvin: With the blue states continuing to be blue and the red states continuing to be red and with hardly 10% of the states in the swing state category, that theory seems to be a total bs with no evidence.

  184. 184
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Immanentize:
    Has your cat been vaccinated for rabies? Have you handled the cat since the encounter? Have you been vaccinated for rabies?

    Love bats, but they can be lethal.

  185. 185
    J. says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Excellent point. Thanks for repeating. :-)

  186. 186
    Shell says:

    But! But!! “Proud Goldwater Girl”!!11

    Criminy. Im a life-long Dem, but I voted for Christine Whitman, a Republican, for NJ governor. Guess that disqualifies me from ever running for President.

  187. 187
    Snarkworth, short-fingered Bulgarian says:

    Regarding the folks who consider Hillary untrustworthy, or scandal-ridden, or unlikable: What motives do they attribute to her many followers? Are those followers evil? Misled? Gullible?

  188. 188
    Bobby Thomson says:

    The Sanders campaign has turned into always been an inadvertent lesson in the narcissism of small differences, but at least its leader seems to be figuring out (no sooner than time) that calling the Democratic primaries “rigged” makes him look like someone because Sanders is too dumb to figure out the rules. Or too self-involved to think he needs to worry about them…

    Fixed that for you. Sanders is a dumbass without a trace of self awareness.

  189. 189
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Shell: Elizabeth Warren says IIRC she was a registered Republican until the mid-1980s, Wiki says mid- 90s

    Warren voted as a Republican for many years, saying, “I was a Republican because I thought that those were the people who best supported markets”.[21] According to Warren, she began to vote Democratic in 1995 because she no longer believed that to be true, but she states that she has voted for both parties because she believed that neither party should dominate.[32]

    Oddly enough I’ve never heard the purity police bring this up.

  190. 190
    Jack the Second says:

    @Snarkworth, short-fingered Bulgarian: In general, people derive two psychological comforts from believing in conspiracies.

    1. It is comforting to believe that someone is in control, even if it is lizard people at the center of the Earth, rather than believing that a whole lot of shit happens that is beyond anyone’s control.

    2. It lets you feel superior to the “sheeple” who have “bought into the lies”. Everyone else was deceived, but not you!

  191. 191
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    In the end they will submit
    It’s got to hurt a little bit

    Sen. Marco Rubio (R-FL) said in an interview aired Sunday that he apologized to presumptive GOP nominee Donald Trump for mocking the size of his former opponent’s hands.
    Trump’s hands and manlihood made it into the headlines after Rubio questioned the size of his palms when he said Trump had “small hands.” Rubio said on CNN’s “State of the Union” that he apologized to Trump for the remark.
    “I said, ‘you know, I’m sorry that I said that. It’s not who I am and I shouldn’t
    have done it,'” Rubio said. “I didn’t say it in front of the cameras, I didn’t want any political benefit. I’m not a candidate now so I can say that to you.”

    I wonder if Trump will make him write an essay on why his behavior was inappropriate, and how he plans to make better choices in the future.

  192. 192
    D58826 says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: And what has he done legislatively since 1992. Not all legislation is known by the name(s) of its sponsors but some ofthe big pieces are
    1. 1987 immigration reform – Simpson–Mazzoli Act
    2. campaign finance – McCain-Fiengold
    3. wall street – Dodd-Frank
    4. business ethics (i know oxymoron) – Sarbanes–Oxley Act
    5. budgeting – Gramm-Rudman
    6. defense dept – Goldwater-Nichols
    7. labor – Taft-Hartley
    8. labor – Wagner Act
    I’m sure there are others. But I don’t remember anything with Bernie’s name on it. According to Congress.gov he introduced 700 or so pieces of legislation (i.e. dropped a piece of paper in the hopper). Of those two were passed by the House but died in the Senate, one (veterans benefits) was signed into law and he got one post office renamed. Not much for a career going back to 1991. Now maybe that is typical of back benchers but hardily a recommendation for his legislative skill.

  193. 193
    D58826 says:

    @Shell: And I voted for a very conservative House Gooper. He was fighting to keep the Phila. Naval Shipyard and it’s 8k jobs open. For that I would have voted for Trump. He later went to jail on political corruption charges.

    I also voted for Nixon, but not sure that counts since it was 1960, I was in the eighth grade and it was the school mock presidential vote.

  194. 194
    D58826 says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Hmmm that probably required an extra large dose of Vaseline.

  195. 195
    Chyron HR says:

    @D58826:

    [R]esponsibility for bringing his disaffected supporters into the fold – should he lose – doesn’t rest solely or even primarily with him.

    “It’s not my fault they’re trying to burn you, I only told them you were a witch!”

  196. 196
    El Caganer says:

    @shomi: This board is filled with Sanders fans? They have a funny way of showing it.

  197. 197
    D58826 says:

    @shomi: Hmmm. The usual suspects seem to be sleeping in today. Or maybe they just decided the rest of us are beyond the pale and they won’t waste any more time trying to save our worthless souls.

    Even the usual trolls (not to be conflated with legitimate Bernie supporters) seem to be MIA also.

  198. 198
    Psych1 says:

    @Snarkworth, short-fingered Bulgarian: Misled & Gullible, not necessarily evil.

  199. 199
    The Lodger says:

    @beth: It’s the same with the souvenir stands in Washington DC. The only Hillary merchandise I saw was an open jaw bottle opener.

  200. 200
    Ruckus says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    If I had been investigated as thoroughly relentlessly as Hillary, I’d probably be doing life w/o parole for something or other.

    Even if you hadn’t done it. Or anything for that matter.

  201. 201
    Peter K. says:

    You Hillarybots are embarrassing. They primary was over weeks ago and you’re still raging?

    John Oliver on how the primary system is dysfunctional:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_S2G8jhhUHg

    He’s saying basically what Sanders said. Hillary got to be Secretary of State and Obama covered her campaign debts. What will Sanders get?

  202. 202
    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet says:

    @Chyron HR: Bernie railed against the Corrupt Campaign Finance System™ in just about every one of his speeches that I recall.

    Did anyone ever ask him the question:

    “Sen. Sanders, a Corrupt System is usually taken to be one that Corrupts People. Who specifically are you accusing of being Corrupt? If you do not have a particular person or people in mind, are you not engaging in cheap McCarthyism?”

    I think someone came close in an early debate, and he begged off, but the question should have come up every . single . time he used that soundbite in a speech.

    His supporters heard him calling Hillary Corrupt™ loud and clear. It did unwarranted damage to her and to party unity. He’d going to have to work hard to heal that rift, IMO.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  203. 203
    gogol's wife says:

    @satby:

    I know Obama really well. I shook hands with him in 2008 and his wife sends me e-mails all the time.

  204. 204
    Ruckus says:

    @PurpleGirl:

    Our Founding Fathers were familiar with that history and wanted to avoid the “evils of factions”.

    And conservatives since raygun mistook the word fractions for factions and therefore have been avoiding evils of maths for the last 36 yrs.

  205. 205
    Ruckus says:

    @Peter K.:
    Exactly what he deserves as a democrat, which he isn’t. Nothing.

  206. 206
    The Thin Black Duke says:

    @Peter K.: Bupkis, I hope.

  207. 207
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Peter K.: He’s saying basically what Sanders said.

    oh, somebody on TV said something?

    @Peter K.: Hillary got to be Secretary of State and Obama covered her campaign debts.

    After she proved she was willing and able to act as a team player, and Obama decided she could be an asset in his administration.

    What will Sanders get?

    Since he likes to debate, how ’bout a one-on-one with Barney Frank?

  208. 208
    El Caganer says:

    @Peter K.: That depends on him, doesn’t it? If he shows strong support for Clinton, he might get some nice Senate assignments. If he acts like a dick, he’ll probably get a well-funded Democratic challenger for the next election.

  209. 209
    D58826 says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I think it depends on the outcome in the Senate. If Hillary wins and Bernie gives the dems the 50th seat (VP is the tie breaker remember) then he will get a nice plum. If the dems get to 51 but one short of 60 (and that is exceedingly unlikely) he will probably get a plum. Except for SCOTUS nominations, 60 isn’t as important as it would be with a democratic House. If Hillary loses and Bernie is the 51st vote then he will get a plum. If she loses and the democrats come up short in the Senate, he will be the chairman and sole member of the remove bird poop from the Capital steps committee.

  210. 210
    D58826 says:

    @Peter K.: Well since the primary season was over months ago, why doesn’t Bernie throw his support to the winner. Surely if Little Mario can endorse (genuflect) to Trump, then Bernie can offer his hand in congratulations. I don’t think Hillary is asking for a public humiliation.

  211. 211
    D58826 says:

    It can only be hoped he has some close advisors who will help him face reality and say to him; “Bernie you LOST, it’s over. That happens in elections and the time has come to show some class.” He needs to be told “While you have achieved your fifteen minutes of fame and made a real difference in the discussion if you want to actually make a difference on the issues you care about you will gracefully leave the stage. Working with Hillary and not trying to tear her down is the way to make progress on the progressive issues you claim to care about. Any other scenario places you in the position to take the blame if Trump wins.”

    The rest is equally hard on Bernie.
    What does Ecclesiastes 3:1 – for all things there is a season. And this isn’t his season.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....68566.html

  212. 212
    Elie says:

    Please do not hurt bats if you can help it. They are diminished in numbers and do a huge service to us and the environment. They will not hurt you EXCEPT — they can carry rabies. If one is sick or listless, leave it alone. Do not let your dogs/cats mess with it. If you must handle a sick or wounded bat, please be careful. If possible, let a wildlife removal company remove it. Young brown bats frequently get lost getting back home in the wee hours of the morning or during the night.

  213. 213
    D58826 says:

    And now Bill wants to take me out for dinner. (sigh)

  214. 214
    Denny says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Once you give money however you are on their radar – I’ve been giving to various arms of the Dem party since 2008 and I get calls several times a week from the various arms (DNC, DCCC, DSCC, DGA, etc.), often times from multiple orgs within an hour; I still give but I’ve gotten very good a brushing them off since even if I gave a token amount to each one every time they called I’d be in the poor house by now.

  215. 215
    Cleos says:

    @amk: Yeah, give the man a break. He hasn’t applied to the Vatican for official sainthood yet.

  216. 216
    Cleos says:

    @D58826:

    But while not conceding defeat, he notably added that the responsibility for bringing his disaffected supporters into the fold – should he lose – doesn’t rest solely or even primarily with him.

    Well, of course. Why should the man have to do the scutwork? Bad enough she didn’t just drop out and let him win.

  217. 217
    different-church-lady says:

    @Bob In Portland: No, Bob, you’re our asshole.

  218. 218
    different-church-lady says:

    @Peter K.:

    What will Sanders get?

    “Lost” is the answer I’m increasingly hoping for.

  219. 219

    Wow, we’re still going?

  220. 220
    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet says:

    @Denny: Got ya beat.

    I gave McCain and Bradley a little money before the NH primary in 2000. I have never vote R in the fall. I still get the occasional RNC mailings begging for a survey to be filled out and asking for money, and flyers/begs from some weird RWNJ “university”, also too.

    As you say, once you’re on a mailing list, its half-life is probably a substantial fraction of the time until the heat-death of the universe.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  221. 221
    different-church-lady says:

    @Cleos:

    He hasn’t applied to the Vatican for official sainthood yet.

    He hasn’t? What the hell was he doing while he was there?

  222. 222
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: during the run-up to the MCA torture-lite bill, I e-mailed McCain in the vain hope that there was some core of that legendary (as in Bigfoot) principle in the man, not knowing that out-of-state/district communication is ignored by pretty much all elected officials. I got dead-tree mail from his campaigns for a while after that. Now that I think of it, never for his presidential campaign, which seems odd.

  223. 223
    Karen says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    It’s interesting that you mention Frank because Bernie lost his bid to keep Frank and Malloy from co-charing DNC committee at the convention. The DNC rejected Sander’s claim that Frank and Molloy should be stripped of their co-chair positions on their respective Standing Rules Committee and Standing Platform Committee. Sanders claimed Frank and Molloy had animosity towards him and were supporters of HRC.

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/l.....committees

  224. 224
    maryQ says:

    I suggest that Harry Reid appoint Sanders as the chair and sole member of the Senate Men’s Washroom Janitorial Oversight Committee on November 9, no matter who wins the Presidency.

  225. 225
    maryQ says:

    @Snarkworth, short-fingered Bulgarian: Privileged, is what Ive been hearing. You know, like John Lewis. And Trayvon Martin’s mother.

  226. 226
    Jeffro says:

    @Uncle Cosmo: thanks for the history lesson … I think we are looking at the exception to the rule here. And I’ll probably still stick with my rule.

  227. 227
    AnotherBruce says:

    So maybe we’re burying the lede. Sanders does not want Clinton to pick a wall streeter for vice president. Sanders wants to have a say in that decision. Sanders wants a say in picking the cabinet members.

    In other words, Sanders is admitting that he lost the nomination.

  228. 228
    Jeffro says:

    @Glidwrith: that’s great that you did it for a reason but did you ever contact anyone in the Democratic Party and let them know why you were staying an Independent? You weren’t going to get them to do more to “court you” ( as you put it) because they can’t interpret that from raw voter data

  229. 229
    john fremont says:

    @Jack the Second: I had a similar conversation like this a week ago with a couple of Sanders supporters. Besides Iran Contra, I also brought up others that had been run out of office for corruption like John Sununu, Dan Rostenkowski, Rod Blagojevich, Scooter Libbey etc. and yet Hillary Clinton, the Most Corrupt Politician Ever, has never been indicted on anything. They both agreed with me.

  230. 230

    How ironic. The superdelegates might actually save the Republic.

    Hillary is a doomed candidate.

  231. 231
    JWR says:

    @MJS:

    “Thanks Hillary”? I think your ire was (is?) misplaced.

    A very late reply to say that my ire for her vote in favor of the AUMF was meant with tongue partly in cheek, and was spread equally among all the Dems who voted in favor of this disastrous war.

  232. 232
    fuckwit says:

    Sanders has made “fighting” a goal in and of itself since he was part of the Civil Rights movement and SDS. He’s always been fighting. That consistency is admirable, and displays his integrity, but also displays his inability to understand or admit what the fuck is really going on.

    The things he was fighting for used to be considered radical, but now are getting tantalizingly close to mainstream. But not completely there yet.

    I want an ‘I have been to the mountaintop” speech from Bernie. He won’t be the guy to get us there. Someone else will– hopefully one of his young followers.

    Just voted by mail here in nobody-cares CA. Ticked my box for Bernie, out of principle and to send a message, and am ready to get on Team Clinton as soon as possible and do my phonebanking best to try to get enough coattails to flip the Senate and maybe take a bite out of the House.

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