No One Could Have Predicted- Trump/Sanders Debate

To the surprise of no one but and some clown from Vermont, Donald Trump is not going to debate Bernie Sanders:

“Based on the fact that the Democratic nominating process is totally rigged and Crooked Hillary Clinton and Deborah Wasserman Schultz will not allow Bernie Sanders to win, and now that I am the presumptive Republican nominee, it seems inappropriate that I would debate the second-place finisher,” Mr. Trump said.

“Likewise, the networks want to make a killing on these events and are not proving to be too generous to charitable causes, in this case, women’s health issues. Therefore, as much as I want to debate Bernie Sanders — and it would be an easy payday — I will wait to debate the first-place finisher in the Democratic Party, probably Crooked Hillary Clinton, or whoever it may be,” Mr. Trump said in his statement.

Mr. Sanders is trailing Mrs. Clinton by hundreds of delegates and has repeatedly said he would look forward to debating Mr. Trump. Mrs. Clinton declined an invitation from Fox News to debate Mr. Sanders ahead of the California primary. Mr. Sanders is locked in a tight race with Mrs. Clinton in California and has been trying to generate free media in the state, where it is expensive to advertise.

There is no upside to Trump debating Sanders, just as there is no upside for Hillary standing on stage graciously being yelled at and having Bernie wag his finger at her. Why? Because he LOST. It’s over.

At this point Sanders is just making an ass out of himself while making Joe Manchin look like a good Democrat. Well played, Bernie. You just got rickrolled by a douchebag and probably still doesn’t even realize it.






332 replies
  1. 1
    burnspbesq says:

    making Joe Manchin look like a good Democrat.

    Not so fast, big guy.

  2. 2
    HinTN says:

    I’ve a mind to believe that the Bernster could have stood his ground with Trump without lowering himself to attacking Hillary. However, I’m not surprised that Cowardly Donald was afeared of the Bernster.

  3. 3
    Baud says:

    it seems inappropriate that I would debate the second-place finisher,”

    When I think of Trump, the first thing that comes to mind is decorum.

  4. 4
    MattF says:

    Uh huh. When Sanders said he expected Trump would keep his word, it became a no-brainer. But I’m glad Der Trump couldn’t resist the urge to step on Bernie– there was a real chance that it would be a disaster.

  5. 5
    RinaX says:

    Oh, how this tickles me.

  6. 6
    Baud says:

    Trump is in trouble now. NO ONE TROLLS KIMMEL!!!

  7. 7

    You just got rickrolled by a douchebag and probably still doesn’t even realize it.

    Heh.

  8. 8
    Mnemosyne says:

    I love early dismissal on the day before a holiday. I just need to verify that my boss is done with me for the day, and then it’s home to take a nap before hitting Happy Hour with the spouse.

  9. 9
    singfoom says:

    This, this is how you get trolls. Before you know it, certain people will be concern trolling here reminding you once again that yes, they hate Hillary and she’s a horrible candidate.

    Then certain other people will remind us that none of this is possibly understandable without really really understanding the consequences of political assassinations 65 years ago because crazy reasons.

    Up until this point I’ve been respectful of Bernie having supported him in my state primary. But this? This? He can’t see that Trump played him like a fucking fiddle? And furthermore, he’d actually debate Trump? I mean, sure it’s not illegal or immoral…but it’s not right either.

    “Oh sure, I’ll debate the Republican nominee before I’m the democratic nominee. What could go wrong?”

    Bernie is playing the useful idiot and it’s sad. SAD!

  10. 10
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Baud:

    Many have tried, none have succeeded.

  11. 11

    As if anyone should be surprised?

  12. 12

    @singfoom: I had to read that in my Archer voice.

  13. 13
    Chat Noir says:

    The statement reads like a 12-year-old with an attitude problem wrote it.

  14. 14
    PsiFighter37 says:

    What can Bernie do to get more free media, now that he can’t afford to pay Tad Devine?

  15. 15
    billcoop4 says:

    Donald Ducked.

    WMC

  16. 16
    D58826 says:

    more bad behavior from Bernie. He has drunk the cool aid and he won’t stop till he destroys the party. Trump is just the price we have to pay for the revolution.

    Bernie Sanders’s ‘Scorched Earth’ Strategy Seems to Be Working Bernie Sanders has no realistic path to the Democratic nomination. Despite the protestations of postmodern mathematicians, his campaign is no longer about who will represent Blue America in the main event this fall, but rather, how Hillary Clinton will choose to represent it.
    The socialist senator still refuses to cop to this fact. Earlier this week, he suggested that anyone who thinks Clinton is the presumptive Democratic nominee must harbor a secret longing for authoritarian rule. And his campaign promises to take its fight to the convention, even in the (beyond likely) scenario that Clinton boasts a massive lead in pledged delegates when all the votes are counted.
    In justifying this patently anti-democratic stance, the campaign has encouraged supporters to view its losses as illegitimate – reflections of a process rigged through too few debates, too many closed primaries, and too much cooperation between the Democratic National Committee and Hillary Clinton. For some Sanders supporters, this critique has taken on the moral authority of the candidate’s jeremiads against the “rigged” financial system, magnifying the stakes of the primary fight and the animosity they feel toward its likely winner.
    Nevada’s Democratic convention illustrated the hazards of such sentiments. There, Clinton won by 33 votes – after 56 pro-Sanders delegates were disqualified. A fight over exactly two pledged delegates devolved into a bitter melee. America’s worst leftists inundated the state party chairwoman with threatening phone calls. Sanders initially responded by condemning harassment only in the abstract – while condemning the unfair treatment of his Silver State supporters in great detail.
    Elected Democrats responded by railing against the Vermont senator’s aggressive tactics. Liberal commentators warned that this “scorched Earth” strategy was self-defeating: At this point, undermining Clinton would only undermine his future influence within her party.
    But over the past few days, a funny thing happened: A wave of polling data established that Sanders really is undermining Clinton’s prospects in the general election – and the Democratic Party began searching for bones to throw the senator’s way.

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelli…..rking.html

    President Trump will give The Senator and his Misses a front row seat at the inauguration.

  17. 17
    Patricia Kayden says:

    Is this the first Presidential race where one candidate openly calls the opposing candidate derogatory names and gets away with it? He has called Senator Warren “Pocahontas” on multiple occasions and now routinely calls Secretary Clinton “Crooked Hillary”.

    Is this what this country has come to?

  18. 18
  19. 19
    Baud says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Trump is a rorschach test for white people. We won’t know until November whether they pass.

  20. 20
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Patricia Kayden: You should have seen some of the back and forth between Adams and Jefferson in the early 19th Century. Or go and read the language that Yancy and the other firebreathers used in the run up to the election of 1860. So nothing new here to a certain extent.

  21. 21
    gratuitous says:

    That’s weird; just the other day a Balloon Juice front pager said there was no downside for Trump to “debate” Sen. Sanders. I disagreed, and garnered probably more responses for that post than any other I’ve made here. Now Cole says there’s no upside for Trump to appear on a stage with Sanders.

    I still think that if Trump had gone head-to-head with Sanders, Sanders would have carved him up into little bite-sized pieces. It would have been a lot of fun to watch.

  22. 22
    D58826 says:

    @Adam L Silverman: The Intertubes and cable TV just magnify it

  23. 23

    @gratuitous: The only outcome of a Sanders-Trump debate would be Hillary losing, IMO.

  24. 24
    pseudonymous in nc says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Is this the first Presidential race where one candidate openly calls the opposing candidate derogatory names and gets away with it?

    No, but probably the first in the last 120 years. I’d almost like Team Hillary to start calling him “Asshole Donald Trump” and see how the press handles it.

    Actually, no. Call him “Donny”, because you know he’d fucking hate that.

  25. 25
    Baud says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Well, sure. When you take all of human history into account….

  26. 26
    MattF says:

    @pseudonymous in nc: I’d go for ‘Baldie’.

    ETA: Since ‘Turdblossom’ has been taken.

  27. 27

    @HinTN:
    Alas, I don’t think Trump was afraid at all. Even if it would have been smart to be scared, Trump wouldn’t see it. What he saw was a chance to pants Sanders and by extension all Democrats on a national stage, and Bernie went ‘Gee golly, Trump, I trust you!’

  28. 28
    Mike in DC says:

    The Establishment HATES This One Weird Trick That Will Win The Nomination!
    –the Sanders campaign at this point in time.

  29. 29
    D58826 says:

    @gratuitous: Trump would not have ‘debated’ Sanders. He would attack Hillary and go off on his usual tirades. Bernie would either have to ignore Trumps potshots at Hillary or just give his stump speech. At which point Trump would stand there making funny faces and rolling his eyes. And if Bernie thought that Faux news would prep him with legitimate policy questions then he is more delusional than I thought.

  30. 30
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @gratuitous: I didn’t watch many of the debates between Sanders and Clinton so I’m not sure how good of a debater Sanders is except it may not be too hard to debate against an idiot like Trump. Or so I would guess.

    @Adam L Silverman: I am not aware of any name calling (as if we’re back in high school) from Presidential candidates in my lifetime. Trump’s behavior is unprecedented. One of my co-workers stopped voting Republican over her embarrassment of Palin. I wonder how many will stop voting Republican over Trump.

  31. 31
    pseudonymous in nc says:

    @MattF: “Orange Slaphead”. “Donny The Wig”.

  32. 32
    Bailey says:

    More hand wringing at this blog. Frankly it matters not to me that Bernie won’t be the candidate. If he wants to debate Trump, let him. I’m fairly certain that, as much as he’s been able to move Clinton, he could inflict some damage into Trump as well. It’s not like anything Clinton is doing has been effective; she could use all the help she can get since she’s not all that great at making the case for herself.

  33. 33
    D58826 says:

    @pseudonymous in nc: How about calling him ‘old little hands’?

  34. 34
    pseudonymous in nc says:

    @gratuitous:

    Sanders would have carved him up into little bite-sized pieces.

    No, Sarah Kendzior already imagined something much more plausible: two egos going off against Hillary.

  35. 35
    geg6 says:

    @burnspbesq:

    Yeah, I’m not enamored with Bernie, but I despise Manchin.

  36. 36
    PsiFighter37 says:

    I hope Obama is ready to endorse as soon as June 8 rolls around. He can slam the door shut, hard, on Bernie.

  37. 37
    Archon says:

    I’m surprised Trump didn’t follow through on this. My guess is he was afraid a debate would show just how absurd it is for a Bernie Sanders supporter to consider voting for Trump based on anything close to policy similarities.

  38. 38

    @Archon:
    Why bother seeing it through? He got to humiliate Sanders and hardly lift a finger.

  39. 39
    F says:

    Think srv will show up on this thread after he shrieked about how Trump would have destroyed Bernie in a debate?

    Personally, I’m betting that he’s as yellow as the Big Orange Chicken.

  40. 40
    D58826 says:

    @gratuitous: The point your missing is it will not be a ‘debate’ like in high school or the old TV show college bowl. It will be two guys shouting past one another and feeding off of pro-GOP questions from Faux news. Bennie would just be the 17th, or is 18th, member of the GOP clown car for the evening.

  41. 41
    raven says:

    Going back much further, the election of 1800—only our fourth, and yet one of our dirtiest—saw a major clash between the very different political philosophies of the Federalists and the Republicans. It produced some classic name-calling: President John Adams was a “repulsive pedant” and a “hideous hermaphroditical character which has neither the force and firmness of a man, nor the gentleness and sensibility of a woman.” His opponent Thomas Jefferson was a “Godless atheist,” “the son of a half-breed Indian squaw, sired by a Virginia mulatto father,” etc. Perfect for Twitter, actually.

  42. 42
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @D58826: Without a doubt. The news media functions off of the pro wrestling concept that controversy creates cash. So they cover everything in the most hysterical and hyperbolic manner possible. Social media just amplifies it. And Trump is a master of this. In correspondence with several friends and former colleagues yesterday I wrote in regards to the chance(s) of terrorism or political violence or riots before and/or during the conventions this summer:

    I don’t even really expect any more than the usual sporadic protestors upset about being penned up in Free Speech Zones miles from the conventions clashing with the local PD that has to pen them up. Especially now that Trump has clinched the minimum number of delegates and there’s really no good way to contest the convention that wouldn’t look like a real screw job by whatever is the institutional GOP these days. And since I’m really not sure, in terms of an actual institutional GOP, that there really is one and if there is, nothing I’ve seen throughout the primary would indicate that they could organize a one car funeral if you spotted them the hearse. And this isn’t a knock on people who are registered Republicans. I just don’t think the GOP establishment or the GOP as an institution has any core left. I think its been hollowed out.

    The real fallout of Citizen’s United is that no one needs the parties any more if they have enough money. So the Koch’s have their own parallel organization to the RNC and the GOP nationally and state by state. Some times it aligns with the official GOP and sometimes it doesn’t. Adelson does his thing. Art Pope bought the NC GOP. And there are more examples nationally, state by state, and even municipally. And this is before we get to things like the Freedom Caucus in the House which is at war with its larger caucus and has ground even the most basic actions of the House to a halt. Or Fox News and the other major conservative media sources. And Trump had an instinctive feel for all this instability and chaos and just walked through and showed just how ineffective these different GOP centers of gravity were. He saw that the process had become a disarticulated reality show and he knows reality shows! Got to give him credit. I don’t think anyone else could have done it.

  43. 43
    Jeff Spender says:

    I think his plan all along was to back out just so he could release that statement.

    He’s trying to woo Bernie’s diehards. That’d be the language they want to hear.

  44. 44
    geg6 says:

    @Bailey:

    Apparently, she’s better at making her case than Bernie. Seeing as how she got a shit ton more votes than he has. I know she convinced me and I was neutral at the start.

  45. 45
    Mike J says:

    @raven:
    He’s very attractive in the North. New Yorkers like his chances
    He’s not very forthcoming on any particular stances
    Ask him a question: it glances off, he obfuscates, he dances

  46. 46
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Baud: Just American history.

  47. 47
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @D58826: @pseudonymous in nc: How about calling him ‘old little hands’?

    I heartily endorse this slogan

    Mr. Sanders is locked in a tight race with Mrs. Clinton in California .

    Has there been a second poll that shows this?

  48. 48
    jl says:

    I love that ol’ Cole panic and rage over nothing. Thanks for amusing post.

  49. 49
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Ma, Ma, where’s my pa?
    Gone to the White House, ha ha ha!

  50. 50
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Patricia Kayden: I understand you’re time frame reference. But this is not unprecedented in American history. The Founders and Framers went at each others hammers and tongs in the press and in their correspondence and in person at first the Continental and then in the post revolution Congress. The language was a bit more flowery and very dated to the time period, but it was often brutal and cut throat.

  51. 51

    @D58826:

    The Intertubes and cable TV just magnify it

    Bingo!!!

    Our media has become an outrage generation machine designed to find the gotcha moment in every pols actions. Even when there’s no real gotcha there, the headline will still be designed to generate outrage.

    We are fucked until we can re-capture our media from the Chamber of Commerce who took it over following Lewis Powell’s step by step procedure to fulfill a soft fascist takeover of the American republic.

  52. 52
    trnc says:

    @gratuitous:
    I think you have a point. I didn’t like the idea of that debate because it’s such a weird idea, but clearly Bernie was not going to just be Donnie’s sidekick for non-stop Hillary attacks. Bernie started making some noise about corporate influence, tax breaks for the wealthy, etc. DT’s responses were not likely to convince berners over to his side, certainly not without alienating some mouthbreathers.

  53. 53
    300baud says:

    I honestly thought that the quote was from some parody site. I hovered over the link and it said, “nytimes.com”. I clicked, and those words were indeed on a page that said “New York Times” at the top. And I still could somehow not believe that came from an actual written statement from an actual candidate for President of the United States.

    I guess the good news is that I have more than 5 months of election news to help me practice saying the words “President” and “Trump” together and being able to understand them as a phrase.

  54. 54
    jl says:

    Baud! 20161 should challenge Trump to a debate. His last chance to sneak in and make some progress towards the nomination?

  55. 55
    Mike in NC says:

    @Patricia Kayden: Drumpf has no filter. His admirers consider this a feature, not a bug.

  56. 56
    trollhattan says:

    @D58826:
    Sarah ™, bless her heart, showed the way when instead of answering the moderator’s “gotcha” questions she just spewed talking points uploaded to her firmware (heh) 90 minutes beforehand. And her acolytes (remember them?) loved her for being so mavericky. The Donny has a few more synapses to rub together than Sarah ™ so knows the score.

  57. 57
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @raven: Those were the exact exchanges I was referring to. Thank you for doing the search work so I didn’t have too!

  58. 58
    JMG says:

    I am willing to bet a small, very small, sum that Trump will come up with some excuse or six to not debate Clinton this fall. Probably refuse to deal with “biased” moderators and submit a list of acceptable names that starts with Sean Hannity and runs all the way to Bill O’Reilly. The one star surrounded by 16 identical losers image worked great in the primaries. Won’t work one on one with another celebrity. Also, he’d have to know what he was talking about, even if just to the point of repeating soundbites Rubio-style, for 90 whole minutes with no breaks.

  59. 59
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Exactly!

  60. 60

    @Adam L Silverman:
    I’m not sure I do give him credit. I don’t think he made himself into what wins, I think the GOP made itself into what would nominate him. It’s sort of the same with the media. We’ve always said they’re stuck in high school clique mentality. Well, Trump’s a bully, and they will fall for a bully’s tactics every time. It’s not like being a bully and a troll takes genius.

  61. 61
    raven says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Great minds. . . and sewers!

  62. 62
    raven says:

    @JMG: I love the shit where he says he wants a VP to do all those things he “doesn’t want to do”!

  63. 63
    jl says:

    And to spread some happiness and cheer (at least I think it is happiness and cheer), on the off chance Cole is in the mood for it, I heard Mr. Trump Himself bloviating on His campaign strategy on the news this morning.

    Mr. Trump’s genius has told Him that He can put up to 15 blue and purple states into play for the general election. Including California.
    Trump says He can make HRC waste a lot of money in CA if He puts in an effort there.

    I am very doubtful Trump has a chance in California, and am more doubtful Trump can do much with the money if He spreads it around 15 long-shot states.
    Mr. Trump will probably change His mind tomorrow, though, so who knows?

    Anyway, one good thing about a Trump campaign is that His world historical genius will probably give Him lots of wise advise that will run it into the ground at high speed. We need to hope for the best, (or the worst) from Trump.

  64. 64
    MattF says:

    @JMG: Trump will set ‘conditions’ that will change every day, and then, when that fails, fire his negotiators, so they have to start from scratch– there are lots of possible delaying tactics. But I think that eventually he’ll have to do it.

  65. 65
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Frankensteinbeck: What he gets credit for is realizing it. Even if it was solely an instinctual reaction.

  66. 66
    Fair Economist says:

    Manchin doesn’t exactly warm my heart, but I remember Lieberman and Nelson-NE and, compared to them, he’s not that bad.

  67. 67
    Bailey says:

    @geg6:

    Apparently, she’s better at making her case than Bernie. Seeing as how she got a shit ton more votes than he has. I know she convinced me and I was neutral at the start.

    She’s got inertia and 25 years of name recognition on her side and started with no real competition. She nearly got lapped by a 74-year old independent that no one but the most wonkiest of Americans had heard of before.

    What is actually her message? What is her reason for running for President other than “it’s her time” or “she’s competent?” If you hear it, great, but I don’t think too many Americans do. Most are resigned to her, not inspired by her.

  68. 68

    @JMG:
    I think he might try that, but it would be a disaster. People outside Kentucky didn’t see it, but the Aqua Buddha thing rattled Rand Paul badly. He canceled a debate. His poll numbers plummeted, and only came back when he rescheduled the debate. The GOP base is obsessed with strength, not policies or honesty or virtue. Show obvious weakness, and they desert you.

  69. 69
    dollared says:

    Looks like Bernie played this perfectly. Got all the attention, didn’t have to roll in the mud with the pig. Nicely done!

  70. 70
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Bailey: She nearly got lapped by a 74-year old independent that no one but the most wonkiest of Americans had heard of before.

    and whose proposals and past have had no examination, and in a way I don’t understand, he made it cool to vote for Bernie! If I understood marketing, I’d make cabbage patch dolls or Kardashians and live off the residuals.

  71. 71
    jl says:

    @dollared: Considering that Trump already chickened out of one Fox debate with Sanders, back when it may have made a big difference in both primaries, I wonder how much of Sanders’ bravado was just a show, knowing that Trump would back out.

  72. 72
    dollared says:

    @jl: I think it was win-win for Bernie – either show he’s Mas Macho than The Donald, or actually have the debate and mop the floor with him. This is the outcome with lower upside, but it’s still a plus. And clearly it doesn’t hurt Hillary, because once again Trump looks like a clown and a coward.

  73. 73
    Mark says:

    I wonder what cute name the Donald would have come up with for Senator Sanders.

  74. 74
    Andy says:

    LIVE Bernie on TYT-NOW youtube.
    Get your claws out, get some talking points.

  75. 75
    jl says:

    @Mark: Mr. Trump already has one: ‘Crazy Bernie’.

  76. 76
    burnspbesq says:

    @gratuitous:

    still think that if Trump had gone head-to-head with Sanders, Sanders would have carved him up into little bite-sized pieces.

    Do you also think that Cole could successfully guard Steph Curry? Those two things seem about equally likely.

  77. 77
    les says:

    @Bailey:

    What is actually her message? What is her reason for running for President other than “it’s her time” or “she’s competent?” If you hear it, great, but I don’t think too many Americans do. Most are resigned to her, not inspired by her.

    How is it that none of Bernie’s hip, with it, excited supporters is smart enough to find Clinton’s issue pages, or speeches, or Senate history? I’ve said it before–Bernie should be embarrassed at the sheer ignorance of his followers.

  78. 78
    Aimai says:

    @Bailey: bullshit. Hillarys voters are inspired by her and see in her platform an agenda they are enthusiastic about. Continuing to say this stupid stuff is incredibly disrepectful to the MILLIONS of voters who prefer her to Sanders.

  79. 79
    dollared says:

    @Aimai: Ah, because you are the model of intraparty respect…..

  80. 80
    jl says:

    @dollared: Don’t bother. Armies of bloggers (including Krugman and Marshall) and blog commenters and pundits, who between them have gotten exactly zero votes, zero political contributions, and got elected to exactly zero nothing, and have held no political offices, know better than Sanders (or for the other side, HRC). And we should listen to them moan and piss and insult and panic, rather that think about how maybe politicians who have gotten millions in contributions and votes and got their asses elected to office maybe know what they are doing.

  81. 81
    Nicole says:

    The Hillary camp should nickname him “Littlefinger.” Not only one of the most hated characters on GOT, but also guaranteed to make Trump’s head asplode.

  82. 82
    msdc says:

    @PsiFighter37:

    I hope Obama is ready to endorse as soon as June 8 rolls around.

    He’ll wait until after the DC primary on June 14, or after Sanders comes to his senses and concedes, whichever comes first.

    I can tell you which one I’m putting my money on.

  83. 83
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Andy: I didn’t know the young turks were still out there, that’s the second mention of them I’ve seen today

    In 2011, Uygur was finally offered a show of his own — a weekend slot for $1 million. He had wanted a weekday slot. TYT fans had even campaigned for it, as if Uygur were a candidate for office. When Uygur turned it down, he told viewers that he’d made a moral stand against the network sidelining him because he criticized the Obama administration from the left.

    So he quit because he wasn’t getting enough attention and told his followers he got shafted by the Man for being, like, too principled.

    Shocking that he’s a Bernie! supporter

  84. 84
  85. 85
    Baud says:

    @jl: You trying to put us all out of business?

  86. 86
    Garbo says:

    Bernie Squanders.

  87. 87
    john fremont says:

    @Mike in DC: You Won’t Believe What Happens Next!!!-the Sanders campaign in June.

  88. 88
    Loviatar says:

    @dollared:

    To me its more about the follower than the leader.

    Looks like Bernie played this perfectly. Got all the attention, didn’t have to roll in the mud with the pig. Nicely done!

    So, you’re really going to roll with this, you really believe your boy played this well. If so godspeed my man you’re a perfect match of candidate and voter. smh

  89. 89
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @JMG: No, I think he’ll be eager to debate Secretary Clinton so he can call her names, bring up “scandals”, accuse her of having killed Vince Foster, talk trash about her husband and just generally try to get under her skin. He took great joy in mocking his fellow Republican candidates to their faces during their debates so I’m sure he’ll have a great time doing the same to Secretary Clinton.

    I hope she’s prepared to stay classy but hit him where it hurts which means going after the fact that he’s an emperor who has no clothes. He has zero credentials to be President and beyond empty promises, has not provided any detailed policy statements. And he backtracks every time he’s pressed about his statements, i.e., telling NYT that he will not build “the wall”.

  90. 90
    trollhattan says:

    @Nicole:
    Shirley Bassey is still around to record the song.

  91. 91
    dollared says:

    @Loviatar: Explain, please, why it was bad for Bernie. How did it cost him votes to challenge his opponent to a debate? Pretty vanilla tactic, don’t you think?

  92. 92
    Aimai says:

    @dollared: this kind of reasoning shows how delusional bernies followers are. They just font grasp that trump is a skilled politician who perfectly understands how his voters think. They wont think Trump is scared of Bernie–why should they? Trump tells them Bernie is a crazy old loser who smells of communism and they shrug and agree with him. No democrats give a fuck becsuse they stent planning on voting for trump. Only bernies morons think thst trump voters can be peeled off from trump by. Bernie’s loud mouth harangue. People who understand human nature can see that bernie and the democratic party he pretends to represent would have been harmed by the debate. And bernie was rolled by trump snd left lying in the gutter by trump refusing to be seen on stage with bernie. I wish i had dome magic beans to sell these bernidiots. They are just that dumb.

  93. 93
    les says:

    @jl:

    Armies of bloggers (including Krugman and Marshall) and blog commenters and pundits, who between them have gotten exactly zero votes, zero political contributions, and got elected to exactly zero nothing, and have held no political offices, know better than Sanders

    Finally, you get it. The ability to inspire know-nothings and zealots is not the same as expertise in a subject. Being able to count matters. Ah, for the good old days when ignorance and anti-knowledge were mostly a priority on the right.

  94. 94
    MomSense says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Cheers! I’m enjoying a glass of wine and some much needed sunshine.

  95. 95
    jl says:

    @Baud: Only an all powerful all knowing godlike creature could end the pointless moaning and pissing and insulting and panic business. Probably a job for President Trump.

    I defended HRC’s strategy early in the campaign when people were panicking that she was too quiet, and therefore stupidly dooming her own campaign. DISASTER LOOMED, dammit!

  96. 96
    Baud says:

    @MomSense: How are you feeling?

  97. 97

    There is no upside to Trump debating Sanders, just as there is no upside for Hillary standing on stage graciously being yelled at and having Bernie wag his finger at her. Why? Because he LOST. It’s over.

    There was one possible upside to Bernie debating Trump, though possibly a vain one. If Trump really demolished Bernie in the debate, it might convince a few Bern-feelers to give up on the “Bernie’s a better general election candidate” argument.

  98. 98
    The Thin Black Duke says:

    Bernie and his motley crew of supporters really seem to believe that losing with “honor” is better than winning.

  99. 99
    Andy says:

    @les: –“Your Worship” the ‘”les”

  100. 100
    hovercraft says:

    So is Bernie “hundreds of delegates” behind Hillary or are they “locked in a tight race” ? It’s one thing to spout nonsense off the cuff, but this is an official campaign statement.
    But color me shocked that he baited Bernie into looking desperate.

  101. 101
    Aimai says:

    @dollared: bernies dead enders are not democrats. They tell us that all the time. Nothing intra party about it and no civility required.

  102. 102
    msdc says:

    @Aimai: To be fair, “she’s competent” is one of the key reasons I voted for Clinton over Sanders.

  103. 103
    jl says:

    @les: Well, like HRC or Sanders, or like them not, they know how to get stuff done in the real political world. I was just saying people might want to think about the hard evidence that they have some idea of what they are doing, rather than putting their insult machines on automatic.

  104. 104
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @The Thin Black Duke: Is Senator Sanders losing with honor, though? He’s kind of embarrassing himself at this point. Losing with honor would mean dropping out once you’ve realize there’s no way to win the nomination and endorsing your opponent.

  105. 105
    Jack the Second says:

    @Bailey:

    She nearly got lapped by a 74-year old independent that no one but the most wonkiest of Americans had heard of before.

    “Lapping” someone first requires passing someone, then completing a second lap and passing them a second time: hence, you have “lapped” them by completing an additional lap on top of their total. Bernie Sanders, of course, has never passed Hillary Clinton the first time.

    I know the armchair pundits are not the most athletic crowd, but honestly …

  106. 106
    jl says:

    @Roger Moore:

    ” If Trump really demolished Bernie in the debate, it might convince a few Bern-feelers to give up on the “Bernie’s a better general election candidate” argument. ”

    If it happened it would have been a high risk stunt to show that Trump is an ignorant fool. Sanders says he wants to win nomination, defeat GOP badly in the general election, and get his political revolution going. If it worked, it would have been a three-fer. But, it won’t happen and no one will remember it come convention time for GOP or Dems.

  107. 107
    dollared says:

    @Aimai:

    “People who understand human nature can see that bernie and the democratic party he pretends to represent would have been harmed by the debate. And bernie was rolled by trump snd left lying in the gutter by trump refusing to be seen on stage with bernie.”

    So you have a unique and unimpeachable understanding of human nature and the exact state of play of current events. And you maintain your faith in it even though there is zero evidence to support your assertions. Wow. I am so impressed. How do you use this power for good?

  108. 108
  109. 109
    The Thin Black Duke says:

    Trump took your boy’s lunch money and left him bleeding in the gutter and you can’t even see it.

  110. 110
    dollared says:

    @Aimai: And of course, you know as a well documented fact that millions of Sanders supporters are Democrats. But admitting that would require personal integrity on your part. Your choice…..

  111. 111
    jl says:

    @The Thin Black Duke: Yeah, what Trump did really destroyed Sanders and CHANGED EVERYTHING the last time he chickened out of debate with Sanders a few months ago. Damn, you got me there. You are right.

  112. 112
    Andy says:

    @The Thin Black Duke: —Your youth?

  113. 113
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Bailey: Secretary Clinton’s official website lists several issues that she’s running on. Millions more voted for her than voted for Senator Sanders. Hence, she’ll be the nominee. Not sure why our side needs to demonize or belittle Clinton supporters.

    https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/

  114. 114
    Nicole says:

    @Baud: While I confess I am all in for Hillary, I will be available to work on your 2024 campaign.

  115. 115
    dollared says:

    @jl: exactly this. (oh, and a few more Lexuses and reverse mortgages got sold by the cable news people, and John Cole got to harrumph a couple more times)

  116. 116
    hovercraft says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    I don’t understand how these Bernistas are not aware of the fact that she has handled him with kid gloves pretty much from the beginning. She never felt he was a true threat, so she never truly went after him. They are very delicate flower so they feel that a side eye is a vicious attack.

  117. 117
    les says:

    @jl:

    Well, like HRC or Sanders, or like them not, they know how to get stuff done in the real political world. I was just saying people might want to think about the hard evidence that they have some idea of what they are doing, rather than putting their insult machines on automatic.

    Yes; although Sanders is pretty small time in the “getting stuff done” department, but he trumps Trump. I don’t think I was bashing you, but the notion that being able to get contributions or (a minority of) votes means criticism by experts can just be blown off–Sarah P managed that. Unless that’s what you are saying.

  118. 118
    Lynn Dee says:

    @billcoop4:

    Ha! Excellent!

  119. 119
    Cacti says:

    How does Bernie’s socialist revolution die?

    Humping the leg of the country’s most prominent fascist and begging him for free publicity.

    Pitiful.

  120. 120
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    just turned on MSBC and a Boston Glove reporter is talking about how Bernie! could win CA. I spend far too much time reading political blogs and tweets, and I have seen one poll that shows that race within ten points. Anybody seen more?

    Okay, slightly more poised LA Times reporter says they have a new poll that will come out that shows the race tightening, but other polls still show a large lead.

  121. 121
    The Thin Black Duke says:

    @jl: What are you talking about? Trump dangled a carrot in from of Bernie and snatched it back when Bernie stupidly reached for it. Trump saw how desperate Bernie was and used that to make Bernie look like a fool. Sure, you can be sarcastic all you like, but it looked bad.

  122. 122
    EriktheRed says:

    @Bailey: @Bailey:

    Most are resigned to her, not inspired by her.

    I would include myself in that. Thing is, I am inspired to not see a POS like the tRump in the White House, so that’s good enough.

  123. 123
    Loviatar says:

    @The Thin Black Duke:

    Trump took your boy’s lunch money and left him bleeding in the gutter and you can’t even see it.

    That’s why I said for me, its more about the follower than the leader. It shows what kind of person they are and whether they’re willing to be honest with themselves.

    —–

    In regards to honesty, I have one steadfast rule. I may find myself having to lie to any and everyone, but I NEVER lie to myself. Sanders’ voters are lying to themselves.

  124. 124
  125. 125
    hovercraft says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    PPP from yesterday had it at 2 points, I think 46 to 44

  126. 126
    Baud says:

    This fight seems dumber than average.

  127. 127
    dollared says:

    @The Thin Black Duke: To you, perhaps. To others, it looks like Bernie challenged Trump and Trump backed down. And Bernie stayed front and center in the news, just before the California primary.

  128. 128
    dollared says:

    @Baud: It’s been this way for at least 60 days……

  129. 129
    Andy says:

    @Loviatar: —-In regards to honesty, I have one steadfast rule. I may find myself having to lie to any and everyone,…common trait among the Hillz.

  130. 130
    Baud says:

    @Nicole: By then, we’ll probably have divided into two countries. Twice the opportunity!

  131. 131
    Mike J says:

    @Bailey:

    Most are resigned to her, not inspired by her.

    That’s not what the polls say.

    More Clinton supporters are enthusiastic than those backing Sanders, but the media won’t tell you that

  132. 132
    Gelfling545 says:

    @Patricia Kayden: I think it would be really hard to debate against Trump because you ar essentially alone in that activity while Trump gives his catch phrases & calls you rude names. I don’t know how HRC will do it but there is I believe a real chance he will find some way to avoid debating her. Lacking that he will fall back on his usual bluster & his supporters will love it and declare HRC too stiff and intellectual. Of course if she descends to his level she will be unpresidential.

  133. 133
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Mnemosyne: that sounds like a good idea!

  134. 134
    Schlemazel Khan says:

    I strongly suspect I will be accused of chicken-little-itis but I do think Drumpf will debate Clinton and the expectation will be set that if he does not rape Miss Universe, lynch a black man and bite Hillary on the neck while foaming at the mouth he is the winner.

    This is not unlike what the damned liberal media did for Boy Blunder in 2000.

  135. 135
    The Thin Black Duke says:

    @dollared: Thereby proving Loviatar’s point. (sigh)

  136. 136
    hovercraft says:

    @EriktheRed:
    I’m not resigned, but then again I was only ever truly inspired by Obama. I an happily supporting Hillary, not choosing the lesser of two evils. And I think the fact that she is up by 3 million says ther are a lot more like me out there.

  137. 137
    Baud says:

    @Schlemazel Khan:

    the expectation will be set that if he does not rape Miss Universe, lynch a black man and bite Hillary on the neck while foaming at the mouth he is the winner.

    So you’re saying Hillary winning is a sure thing?

  138. 138
    Loviatar says:

    @Andy:

    I guess you’re one of those special snowflakes whose never had to lie about anything. Good for you,

    You get the Bronx finger fool.

  139. 139
    Andy says:

    @Loviatar: –Better than the Cheer….less spittle. Which is rare around here.

  140. 140
    MomSense says:

    @Baud:

    Really well. Thank you for asking. I am sad that it appears we won’t be stirring up trouble in DC next year, however.

  141. 141
    dollared says:

    @Loviatar: And you know this because you have some special, definitive assessment of how this all played out, with a special focus on how this was viewed by all the undecided voters in California. Please, share it with us. Don’t leave us in ignorance, You know so much more than us, you owe us your unique, deeply researched knowledge.

    Or is this just a projection of the fear of The Donald that all Hillary voters are feeling?

  142. 142
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Bailey: Not great at making the case for herself, huh? Then how come she beat Senator Sanders? You’ll probably still be saying this after she’s won her second term.

  143. 143
    Baud says:

    @MomSense: Says who?

  144. 144
    Loviatar says:

    @Andy:

    See I’d be lying to you when I say you seem nice, but misinformed. But to myself I’m really say wow what a douche, glad I don’t know him/her in my personal life.

    see how it works.

  145. 145
    jl says:

    @The Thin Black Duke: I people like spinning themselves into holes in the round cooking up epic dramas inside their heads, that is fine, it’s a free country. Crossword puzzles would be more edifying, I think.

  146. 146
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Has there been a second poll that shows this?

    The only contemporaneous poll was SUSA/ABC7 which showed HRC with a 18 point advantage.

  147. 147
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Adam L Silverman: One of the founders was even shot in a duel, can’t remember his name. I’m sure it will come to me.

    /snark

  148. 148
    Andy says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: –Ah yes, the WaPo, the choice of BJ commentariat. You are a delight.

  149. 149
    Loviatar says:

    @dollared:

    And you know this because you have some special, definitive assessment of how this all played out, with a special focus on how this was viewed by all the undecided voters in California.

    No, what I do know is, your boy is losing and will have lost after next Tuesday. I also know your boy has no realistic hope of winning, yet you and those like you continue to believe he can win. That is not being honest with yourself.

  150. 150
    Aimai says:

    @dollared: @dollared: millions of democrats certainly supported Bernie in the primary–but they aren’t Bernie dead enders. Normal democrats will vote for the nominee. The bernie or busters wont. Or at least so they say. Some are wuite honest that they are not democrats, are ron paulites, jill ssnders, etc.. Supporters. Its not my integrity that is in question. Not that you have standing to question it, of course.

  151. 151
    SFAW says:

    @burnspbesq:

    Do you also think that Cole could successfully guard Steph Curry? Those two things seem about equally likely.

    Curry might be fast (to be honest, I have no idea), but Cole should be able to handle Curry playing Attackman to some extent. I mean, Curry may be good, but he’s no Lyle Thompson.

  152. 152
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Andy: Yeah, the Man is out to get Cenk, man!

  153. 153
    Jack the Second says:

    @Mike J: It’s a pure after-the-fact just-so story, but I think a Sanders/Clinton enthusiasm gap can be explained by noting that a vocal minority of Sanders supporters are more “anti-Clinton” than “pro-Sanders”.

    Meanwhile, I don’t think a significant number of Clinton supporters (before April, anyway) were motivated by their burning hatred for the Sanders campaign.

  154. 154
    Gimlet says:

    If Trump and the rightwing Republicans prevail in the elections, I wonder if this is still active in Europe.

    the European states have reiterated their intention to build up a rapid reaction force capable of deploying 60,000 troops as a counterweight to the US-dominated NATO. The move toward military independence reflects mounting transatlantic economic tensions. The new European currency, the euro, is set to go into circulation in 12 countries by the end of this year, creating a powerful rival to the US dollar, and a host of disagreements have emerged in global trade negotiations and on specific issues ranging from steel imports, to aircraft subsidies and hormone-fed beef.

    The European Union rejected the US call for a nuclear missile defense system, taking the highly unusual action of condemning the policy of an American president in the midst of his state visit. Meeting in Sweden, European leaders backed a resolution drafted by French President Jacque Chirac and German Chancellor Gerhard Schröder committing the EU to strengthening “the international norms and the political instruments for preventing the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction.” The thrust of this declaration was aimed less at Iran, Iraq or North Korea, than at the US itself.

    Shortly before playing host to the American president, Swedish Prime Minister Goran Persson described the European Union as “one of the few institutions we can develop as a balance to US world domination.”

  155. 155
    Eric U. says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I wish more Democrats would use honest language about the Republicans. They tend to be way too gentle. Harry Reed has gotten close. The blue dogs seem to be the worst, whereas they have the most to gain. Blue Dog districts are being decimated by republican policies, and yet they successfully distract with god and guns

    @Jack the Second: I admit to being sorta Bernie-curious, but now I just wish he would go away. If he had any real principles that he wanted to defend, people are still paying attention to him, so he could still do some good by pointing out how the republicans at all levels of politics are working against him. Say something outrageous, anything.

  156. 156
    The Thin Black Duke says:

    @jl: Yes, but this is a blog about politics, not crosswords, right? And if people are worried about the latest plot twist in this ongoing reality TV melodrama, it’s because the outcome could have disastrous consequences in the real world, unfortunately.

  157. 157
    Andy says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:—–You should be happy, the blog has gone full circle. It’s like 2002, man.

  158. 158
    Gimlet says:

    @Jack the Second:

    There must credible internal polling by the Party and Clinton team or they would be ignoring Sanders and his following rather than granting concessions.

  159. 159
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Its like looking in the mirror and saying Bloody Mary three times. Don’t do it. You don’t want to see what it’ll bring into the comments section!

  160. 160
    geg6 says:

    @Bailey:

    I don’t believe you have listened to her if you don’t think she has a message. If you couldn’t be assed to hear it by now, I’m not about to waste my time explaining to you. Plus, I don’t have the required hand puppets.

  161. 161
    dollared says:

    @Aimai: You’ve insulted all Bernie supporters, time after time, without making distinctions. Including this Democrat.

  162. 162
    dollared says:

    @Loviatar: Ah, no, you actually have no idea what I think. That’s how human interaction works.

  163. 163
    Gimlet says:

    @Loviatar:

    I also know your boy has no realistic hope of winning, yet you and those like you continue to believe he can win. That is not being honest with yourself.

    Hillary had lost to Obama by the time of the California primary yet, there was a way she might prevail…

    MAY 24, 2008
    Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton defended staying in the Democratic nominating contest on Friday by pointing out that her husband had not wrapped up the nomination until June 1992, adding, “We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California.”

    It was against that backdrop that Mrs. Clinton’s mentioning the Kennedy assassination in the same breath as her own political fate struck some as going too far. Representative James E. Clyburn of South Carolina, an uncommitted superdelegate, said through a spokeswoman that the comments were “beyond the pale.”

  164. 164
    Teddy's Person says:

    @Adam L Silverman: The Adams-Jackson match up (1828) was no picnic either, particularly for Rachel Jackson.

  165. 165
    SFAW says:

    @hovercraft:

    PPP from yesterday had it at 2 points, I think 46 to 44

    Actually, it was a different organization (PPIC); I have no idea whether they’re as accurate as PPP, which has (historically) been pretty good, I believe.

  166. 166
    Aimai says:

    @dollared: do you teally think your pathetic pose of wounded virtue makes your crashingly stupid political analysis any smarter? Who cares if your feelings are hurt? You are a random internet commenter with nothing useful to add yo a political discussion. If you do go out to vote I dont think you will be able to locate the polling place. But if you do I won’t know or care. Why should I?

  167. 167
    catclub says:

    ha ha. Trump hotel bookings are way down.

    Has trump mentioned this?

  168. 168
    chopper says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I heartily endorse this slogan

    how about calling him “littlefingers”?

  169. 169
    Loviatar says:

    @dollared:

    Actually, if you still believe Sen. Sanders can win, I do know what you think. You fall into one of three groups:

    1) CDSer
    2) Ron Paul/Jill Stein/Libertarian supporter
    3) MRA/SJW believer

    Anyone not in those three groups and with two synapses to rub together would look at Trump and get behind the presumptive Democratic candidate. So believing you are in one of those three groups I think you’re just looking to ratfuck the Democratic party and by extension the country.

  170. 170
    Shell says:

    Some more priceless leadership from the Trump, in California..

    “If I win, we’re going to start opening up the water so you can have your farmers survive, so that your job market will get better,” the presumptive Republican nominee said. “We’re going to get it done and we’re going to get it done quick, don’t even think about it, that’s an easy one.”

    “They don’t understand — nobody understands it,” he said, adding that, “There is no drought.”

    See, Trump can even bend Nature to his will.

  171. 171
    agorabum says:

    #BabyTrump – This is one of the few good things to come out of the Sanders camp. Trump looks like a coward and it helps expose him as a liar. Not that it should need more exposing, but still. It’s a Sad! low-energy move by Trump.

  172. 172
    gwangung says:

    @dollared: Huh. That translates to “I lie, periodically, but unpredictably.”

    Oh, well.

  173. 173
    trollhattan says:

    @Shell:
    The thumping boastful ignorance is his one consistent “feature.”

    There is no drought.

  174. 174
    rk says:

    @Bailey:

    It’s not like anything Clinton is doing has been effective; she could use all the help she can get since she’s not all that great at making the case for herself.

    You know Clinton does not need to make a case for herself. Let’s see the choices we have: a racist, hateful, bigoted ,vain, loathsome, orange baboon or a cranky old man who is either lying to his supporters or himself about the fact that he has lost. The cranky old man had some good ideas but is behaving like a toddler screaming “no fair” when he doesn’t get his way.
    Hillary Clinton is infinitely more competent and experienced than these two old morons. Neither of these two dolts is fit to be dirt beneath her shoes.

  175. 175
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Adam L Silverman: LMAO.

  176. 176
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Gimlet: The CA primary was in February in 2008.

  177. 177
    AnotherBruce says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Oh God, this is based on a new poll put out by an outfit called PPIC. It shows Hillary with a 2 point lead, just like the Fox poll put out in April. They polled 552 people and it has a 6% margin for error. It was released on the same day (May 22nd) that the Survey USA poll showing Clinton with an 18 point lead, ( I can’t find the MOE for Survey USA, but SUSA polled 804 people.) I’m exasperated because the NYT, couldn’t be bothered to report that the PPIC poll wasn’t the latest poll. So suddenly the race is “tightening up”. I’m going with Nate Silver who assigns little weight to this poll. He gives Clinton a 97% chance to win California.

  178. 178
    Gimlet says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    I stand corrected but the excerpt was in May 2008 from the NYTs. I guess she was referring to earlier June primaries as her reason for staying in the race.

  179. 179
    Loviatar says:

    @Gimlet:

    Hillary had lost to Obama by the time of the California primary yet, there was a way she might prevail…

    Hillary Clinton has a been a Democrat for almost 50 years. Some of us within the Democratic party thought she had earned the right to quit on her own terms. Sen. Sanders has been a Democrat for less than 13 months (April 30, 2015). Some of us within the Democratic party don’t think he’s earned the same right. Particularly since he and his supporters seem to go out of their way to criticize the Democratic party.

  180. 180
    MomSense says:

    @Baud:

    Well now that you mention it, we could have our own BaudBJ inaugural.

  181. 181
    Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again) says:

    @Gimlet:

    She was also hoping that the Dems would have do-over primaries in Michigan and Florida.

  182. 182
    Mike J says:

    @Loviatar: Also keep in mind that at the end, Hillary trailed in pledge delegates by less than 100. If superdelegates had chosen an undemocratic route there were more than enough to put her over the top. Yet that didn’t happen. Sanders trails by ~270 and there are only 781 delegates left. If he won every single delegate in NJ he would still be half again as far back as Clinton was at the end of the campaign.

  183. 183

    @Gimlet: No. The concessions are to placate the bernfeelers, and avoid a riot at the convention.

  184. 184
    NR says:

    @rk:

    You know Clinton does not need to make a case for herself.

    Dear lord, I hope Hillary Clinton is smarter than you, because if she’s not, we’re looking at a minimum of 400 electoral votes for Trump.

  185. 185
    Loviatar says:

    A final thought for Sen. Sanders and his supporters.

    When I invite you into my house please don’t insult my wife, complain about the food and curse at my kids, because if you do, I’m going to call you an asshole and ask you to leave.

  186. 186
    eemom says:

    @AnotherBruce:

    He gives Clinton a 97% chance to win California.

    Will the Bernie & the bernouts STFU and GTFO if that happens? Pretty please?

  187. 187
    Mike J says:

    @efgoldman:

    Considering that WVa is now as red as the traitor states (sorry, Cole) we’re not going to do much better.

    Sadly true. Better a complete jackass who makes Chuck Schumer Majority leader than a complete jackass that makes Mitch McConnell majority leader. Even if every other vote is against us, having organizational control is a big advantage.

  188. 188
    NR says:

    It’s pretty sad that y’all hate Bernie Sanders so much that you can’t see how bad this whole episode made Trump look. But I guess you guys are more interested in shitting on Bernie than you are in beating Trump. Shows where your priorities are, I guess.

  189. 189
    Jack the Second says:

    @NR: 400? Bah, Trump will get at least 600.

  190. 190
    trollhattan says:

    Now that he’s done his reacharound for gun-humpers, it’s time to pleasure the awhl and coah industries. Take it away, Donny.

    Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump has said he would “cancel” the Paris climate deal in his first major speech on energy policy.

    More than 195 countries pledged to reduce carbon emissions in a landmark agreement last year. The billionaire businessman has said before there is no evidence that humans are responsible for climate change.

    He called for more drilling, fewer regulations and the approval of the Keystone XL oil pipeline from Canada.

    “Any regulation that’s outdated, unnecessary, bad for workers or contrary to the national interest will be scrapped and scrapped completely,” Mr Trump said. “We’re going to do all this while taking proper regard for rational environmental concerns.”

    What size robe to you think he wears? Klan vote still up for grabs.

  191. 191
    Mike J says:

    @eemom: All that’s left after California is DC and one would not say that it is demographically friendly to Sanders.

  192. 192
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @eemom:

    Will the Bernie & the bernouts STFU and GTFO if that happens? Pretty please?

    Of course not. They’ve already sued the state about non-party-aligned voters having to request a Democratic Party ballot(either in person or by mail).

  193. 193
    My Truth Hurts says:

    Bernie has every right to stay in it until the convention. The only ones making asses of themselves are glib dismissive Hillary supporters demanding he bow down to their queen.

    John, I know your authoritarian mind demands immediate and strict obedience but the fact is Bernie doesn’t have to listen to you or anyone else.

    Asshole.

  194. 194
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @NR: Hey, Tiger, I thought you were gonna concentrate all your very useful energy on down-ticket races. Did you get lost clicking around Bernie’s website looking for those four whole names? Do you not feel the Zephyr wind?

    @My Truth Hurts: does it hurt when you urinate?

  195. 195
    Gimlet says:

    @trollhattan:

    It’s a Republican tradition

    European Union leaders reacted with open dismay yesterday to the confirmation of President George Bush’s decision to withdraw support for the Kyoto climate change agreement. Green Euro-MPs immediately called on consumers to boycott US oil companies.

    Margot Wallstrom, the EU’s environment commissioner, said she was “extremely concerned and disappointed” and would fly to Washington next week to try to keep the US involved in the war against greenhouse gas emissions.

    Ms Wallstrom hinted at trouble if the US refused to attend talks due in Bonn in July. She stopped short of threatening to impose EU trade sanctions, but insisted that the US withdrawal from the treaty would distort fair transatlantic competition.

    “Why should we put European businesses under such high pressure and let American companies off the hook,” she said. “Why should they play by other rules?

    “The EU is willing to discuss details and problems – but not scrap the whole protocol.”

  196. 196
    gwangung says:

    @NR:

    It’s pretty sad that y’all hate Bernie Sanders so much that you can’t see how bad this whole episode made Trump look.

    A person who’s already said Mexicans are rapists? And rides high on Islamophobia?

    Geez. You really do think we’re idiots.

  197. 197
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Mike in DC: there’s nothing like almost choking on a cherry pit when you start laughing at the comments. Thanks, dude! //

  198. 198
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Wow. That’s a pretty arresting sum-up of the situation. I wonder how many – if any – of the Republican Party honchos anticipated *that* sort of fall-out from the Citizens United decision. It would be pretty funny to see them start supporting efforts to overturn it!

  199. 199
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Gotta say, this surprises me. So much for one of the last of reasonable northeastern moderates

    daveweigel ‏@ daveweigel 43m43 minutes ago
    At Libertarian VP debate. Bill Weld on whether Bush or Obama was worse: “I’d rate it a tie.”

  200. 200
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yup, sort of like an ex-parrot.

  201. 201
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Bailey: Could you be bothered with actually, oh, I don’t know – using this thing called the Internet that you are currently using to bitch and moan about Secretary Clinton – and going to her website? Maybe reading her positions on things? I know, it’s kind of a crazy suggestion.

    @les: I see you got there before me.

  202. 202
    Miss Bianca says:

    @john fremont: Colorado Voters, Watch This Video – It Will Change How You Think About Bernie Sanders Forever!

  203. 203
    burnspbesq says:

    @My Truth Hurts:

    Every day that Sanders continues to tilt at windmills is a good day for Trump. If you don’t get that, you’re even dumber than I previously thought.

  204. 204
    Elie says:

    @Cacti:

    THIS — exactly — “humping the leg of the worst fascist”…Before that he was chasing the pope through the hallways of the Vatican and spending millions of his supporters $27 donations to have lobster for a select few and his family on the trip there and back. Honestly, how do they not see the fraud? Trump knows he is another con artist and figures why give him a lift from second place at his expense? He knows this guy is third rate, bush league and not worth the time… The only folks signing on to the fraud are the troll minions who come here regularly cause I guess they have nothing else better to do that read how stupid their dude STILL is.. “A sucker born every minute”

  205. 205
    Kropadope says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    At Libertarian VP debate. Bill Weld on whether Bush or Obama was worse: “I’d rate it a tie.”

    Two former governors, Johnson and Weld, seem a perfect combo to pull off voters from the Rs who would otherwise hold their noses and vote for Trump. In fact, the Libertarian ticket will almost certainly be more credible, if not more electable, than the Republicans.

  206. 206
    redshirt says:

    I wish I could enter a Bernista’s head just to understand what they’re actually thinking.

    Because in my own head, it’s flabbergasting.

  207. 207
    maryQ says:

    I’m not giving up hope that Pope Francis and His Holiness can intervene on Bernie’s behalf to propel him to the nomination, where he will humiliate Trump in the debates and march to victory. The he will appoint Jane as Attorney General and lock Hilary Clinton away forever!

  208. 208
    Miss Bianca says:

    @MomSense: I really like this idea! An inBauduration!

  209. 209
    trollhattan says:

    @Miss Bianca:
    Diabetes industry furious over this Bernie Sanders video that threatens to put them out of business!

    Twenty-one jaw-dropping pics of Bernie Sanders, the last one will stun you!

  210. 210
    Elie says:

    @trollhattan:
    What video are you all talking about?

  211. 211
    Mike J says:

    If you want to beat Trump this is how you do it.

  212. 212
    Juju says:

    @pseudonymous in nc: Apparently it’s Donny the weave.

  213. 213

    I’ll be gracious to Sanders here, I think Trump was genuinely afraid of being made to look like an ignorant putz on prime time TV.

  214. 214
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Elie: Beg your pardon, ma’am – we’re riffing on stupid Internet advertising headlines. Someone started it and I’m the one who first jumped into the fray with the “video” thing. I guess this whole shitstorm is making me feel a little slaphappy.

    @trollhattan: And *you*, dear Sir or Madam, are freakin’ hilarious. Thanks for the laffs!

  215. 215
    trollhattan says:

    @Elie:
    I’m just riffing, but there’s probably something, somewhere that will do Just That. :-)

  216. 216
    Elie says:

    @Xboxershorts:

    hahahahahahahahahahahahhah

    I don’t think Trump was afraid… he didn’t want to give any prominence or importance to Sanders and have Sanders point to that debate with HIM as having boosted his prospects. He just blocked Sanders attempt to grift HIM, to push off of HIM. Sanders has nothing to GIVE Trump and that is the only thing Trump is interested in. Only saps think that Trump backed down cause woof woof woof, he is soooo afraid of Bernie….. seriously.

  217. 217
    amk says:

    two con artists scamming each other and one lost.

  218. 218
    Elie says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    Ok — Thnks!

  219. 219
    redshirt says:

    @Elie: I disagree. I only saw this as a win for Trump and a win for Sanders, with the only loser being Clinton.

    Not sure why Trump is not going to do it, because he could have used the event to mock Clinton endlessly.

  220. 220
    Gimlet says:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/kansas-supreme-court-rejects-some-education-funding-changes/2016/05/27/c6d4e0ca-2457-11e6-b944-52f7b1793dae_story.html

    TOPEKA, Kan. — The Kansas Supreme Court on Friday rejected some education funding changes enacted by the Legislature earlier this year and threatened to order the state’s public schools closed if lawmakers don’t act by June 30.

    The court ruled on a new school finance law that revised parts of the state’s funding formula but resulted in no change in total funds for most of the state’s 286 school districts.

    The justices ruled that lawmakers failed to fulfill the court’s order in February that funding to poor school districts be improved.

    Lawmakers this year faced a budget crunch that followed massive personal income tax cuts and were hamstrung by strong political opposition to redistributing funds from wealthy districts. But the court declared in its unsigned opinion that “political necessities” were irrelevant to its review.

    “The constitution of the people of Kansas does not change it requirements based on legislators’ support, or nonsupport, of proposed legislation,” the court wrote.

  221. 221
    Elie says:

    @redshirt:

    Of course you can have your opinion and there is the possibility of more than one outcome.

    That said, no matter what happened — esp if they both attack Clinton just as you say, Bernie gets a boost that Trump gave him the opportunity to do. Bernie could point to that forever and Trump does not want HIS thunder stolen. Both would be claiming how they beat up Clinton. I think she actually would end up pretty good after the two morons did their little debate but holding that aside, Trump does not give away freebies at his expense. He figures he can take care of Hillary himself and yes, he considers Bernie to be second rate, second place — why give him a break without getting anything from it?

  222. 222
    Soylent Green says:

    I like how savvy Trump was to feed the Berniebros their own “we wuz robbed!” bullshit. We will see more plays from him to keep this going, especially if Bernie does it too.

  223. 223
    Elie says:

    @Soylent Green:

    Problem for Bernie is that his shtick is becoming way too transparent. He is looking more and more the con artist/opportunist and less the hero purity candidate. He is also running out of money. Since a fair amount of that was probably being laundered from his “foreign” contributors ( read republican ratfuckers), they have diminishing reasons to pour a whole lot more fuel into a losing venture. (Unlike Bernie and his minions, they can do arithmetic) Bernie is also setting up some really really bad ju ju for him with the Democrats AFTER the election brouhaha dies down. Aint nobody forgettin this. Count on it.

  224. 224
    redshirt says:

    @Elie: Because he either hurts Hillary, or enables (somehow?!) Bernie to win the nomination, and he’s a far easier general election opponent.

    I mean, the idea of the loser of the Democratic primary debating the winner of the Republican primary is ludicrous, and thus perfectly fits Trump’s campaign to date.

    No way Sanders would defeat Trump in such a debate, also too.

  225. 225
    rk says:

    @NR: @NR:

    Dear lord, I hope Hillary Clinton is smarter than you, because if she’s not, we’re looking at a minimum of 400 electoral votes for Trump

    Only a moron would imagine Hillary losing by 400 electoral votes. Why not 1000? That’s as good a fantasy as any.

  226. 226
    Fred B. says:

    Maybe if Trump wins you should look in the mirror. Your ( and others) constant whining, condescension and derision maybe will alienate enough people so Trump will win. At least Robert Reich is trying logic and reason and with a long time to go it will resonate with a lot of people; not everyone.Those Hillary supporters who in 2008 said they would never vote for Obama, for the most part changed their minds and did.
    But just keep being your petulant little self.

  227. 227
    redshirt says:

    @Fred B.: Who are you talking to? What are you talking about?

  228. 228
    Elie says:

    @redshirt:

    I think you are thinking too hard. And what do you think Hillary would be doing while the two old white guys gang up on her while she is not even invited? And then she goes on to win the Democratic nomination? She has fodder for days, weeks month. Bernie is a fool. Two out three outcomes for him basically destroy what is left of his career that he hasn’t managed to destroy himself. The only fool who couldn’t do an accurate risk assessment was the lead fool — Bernie. I am sorry, this guy is gonna be toast in his state after this….

  229. 229
    Elie says:

    @redshirt:

    Uh-oh — I sure don’t follow Fred’s comment. Maybe one too many pops after work?

  230. 230
    Kropadope says:

    @rk: Man, you lot really wanna keep the Bernie or Busters motivated.

  231. 231
    redshirt says:

    @Elie: Oh sure, this event would be terrible for Bernie in the long term. But short term it gives him some press and momentum going into the final primaries.

    For Trump, it mocks the entire Democratic party. That’s why I’m a surprised he turned it down.

  232. 232
    NobodySpecial says:

    Haven’t read most of the comments, but I’m mystified by some of the commentary.

    If the debate is an automatic loser for Hillary, then why does Trump back out of it?

    If Trump is an automatic win versus Sanders, then why does Trump back out of a free infomercial?

    The only real downside for Trump is if he loses the debate to Sanders. Evidently and obviously, him winning it isn’t a sure thing….because he’s ducking it.

    No, it just looks this time like Trump stepped on his dick and people are overthinking it.

  233. 233
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Fred B.: The problem with what Bernie Sanders and his team is encouraging – namely, a sense of grievance and entitlement, an appeal to CT, and “the whole system is corrupt, man!” – is that when someone reasonable like Robert Reich tries to walk it back – namely, to say, “well, yeah, Sen. Sanders is the one we wanted, but Sec. Clinton is the one we’ve got, so let’s work with her” – is that there’s a shockingly vicious blowback.

    This is exactly the same stew of resentment that drives the Tea Party. It’s an ugly look on leftists. And I blame Bernie Sanders and his campaign for setting this tone and, once again – by making the perfect the enemy of the good, or even the “good enough” – sabotaging the Democratic candidate and helping pave the way for a President Trump – worse even than that, a not-insignificant portion of them would see that as somehow a good thing. It never seems to occur to them that in this “revolution” they think they want, they just *might* end up the victims, rather than the victors.

    ETA: I think this is in answer to your comment. Because quite frankly, I’m not altogether sure what you’re driving at.

  234. 234
    amk says:

    @Kropadope:

    At this point, bs bots can vote for their own interest or take their ball and go home or vote for donnie dreck. Who gives a shit.

  235. 235
    Kropadope says:

    @NobodySpecial: Or too blinded by their weird hatred of Bernie to see that.

  236. 236
    SteveinSC says:

    Bernie just smacked the bully in the face and he ran off the playground crying for his mommy. Fuck you Cole.

  237. 237
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    David Avallone ‏@DAvallone 8h8 hours ago
    1968: Dumb radicals said Nixon win would bring on revolution. 2000: Dumb radicals said Bush win would bring on revolution. 2016: SHUT UP.

    good god, Sanders campaign making a credentials challenge against Barney Frank and Dan Malloy

    WHY ARE CLINTON SUPPORTERS SO MEEEEEAAAAN!

    and apparently their complaint is that Frank and Malloy are meanies

    this is unfucking believable

  238. 238
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Kropadope: @NobodySpecial: Or too blinded by their weird hatred of Bernie to see that.

    see above, it’s not so weird, he’s an asshole

    ETA Sanders supporters now threatening and doxxing Wyoming Democratic officials. What weird hatred. State party official’s tires deflated.

  239. 239
    kd bart says:

    At what point do the giant paper mache puppets show up?

  240. 240
    Elie says:

    @redshirt:

    But would you want a guy with this poor a risk assessment skills anywhere NEAR the Whitehouse. There is no long, long term! Only medium and short term and the risks are devastating! Meaning, his reputation, his job in the senate, his appointments, other opportunities plus the long term reputation damage for him AND his lovely wife!!!! For a brass ring he could never really hope to grab!? Its like taking all your savings and buying lottery tickets because you know, KNOW, there is a winner there! Nope. The man is not a fit candidate and this little episode has just sealed it. He flunked. Anyone who was a Bernie supporter but not a cultist has the scales fallen from their eyes in the last few days.

  241. 241
    Kropadope says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    The problem with what Bernie Sanders and his team is encouraging – namely, a sense of grievance and entitlement

    Funny, considering the orgy of grievance I see here day after day; whining about how Ds are not only entitled to these people’s votes, but also their silence on any points of dissent.

  242. 242
    Fred B. says:

    For all of you who can’t deal with big words or complicated thoughts let me make it simple
    If you want Hillary to win, don’t go out of your way to alienate Bernie’s supporters.
    Its a long slog, Logic works better than condescension and derision. Time is on your side.

  243. 243
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Fred B.: For all of you who can’t deal with big words or complicated thoughts let me make it simple
    ogic works better than condescension and derision

    shut the fuck up and go away, Fred. Go get BERNIE! tattooed on your dick.

  244. 244
    Fred B. says:

    @Miss Bianca: Not my problem you can’t read but find it better to go off on a tangent.

  245. 245
    Fred B. says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: at least I have one.

  246. 246
    SFAW says:

    @Fred B.:
    On the other hand, if you could write clearly, rather than just a screed at an undefined “you” — which in context, appeared maybe to be plural, until you typed “self” at the end — then everyone here would get the benefit of your nuanced Swiftian observation(s).

    Strunk & White is not a bluegrass duo, by the way.

  247. 247
    Bailey says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    and whose proposals and past have had no examination, and in a way I don’t understand, he made it cool to vote for Bernie! If I understood marketing, I’d make cabbage patch dolls or Kardashians and live off the residuals.

    Clever comment. So droll. Now tell me again how this means Clinton has a strong, positive message that demonstrates voters understand what her mission as President will be?

  248. 248
    SFAW says:

    @Fred B.:

    Of course, and no doubt it’s yuuuuuuge. And classy.

  249. 249
    redshirt says:

    @Elie: Not sure quite what you’re getting at. I agree Sanders is an idiot dead ender at this point. But from his short term perspective, a debate with Trump makes sense. Just like I thought it would make sense for Trump, but apparently not.

  250. 250
    redshirt says:

    @Bailey: Build on the gains of Barack Obama.

    That’s enough for me. But not for you, I assume?

  251. 251
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Kropadope: I had almost thought you were becoming reasonable the past few days. An unexpectedly sharp disappointment to see otherwise.

  252. 252
    Bailey says:

    @rk:

    You know Clinton does not need to make a case for herself. Let’s see the choices we have: a racist, hateful, bigoted ,vain, loathsome, orange baboon or a cranky old man who is either lying to his supporters or himself about the fact that he has lost. The cranky old man had some good ideas but is behaving like a toddler screaming “no fair” when he doesn’t get his way.
    Hillary Clinton is infinitely more competent and experienced than these two old morons. Neither of these two dolts is fit to be dirt beneath her shoes.

    I’m glad you’re so confident that Clinton doesn’t need to make a case for herself. Current polling numbers would say different, but let’s stick with your plan. It certainly worked for Al Gore!

  253. 253
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Miss Bianca: They don’t understand what the problem is, so they can’t/won’t/don’t think they need to fix it. From their perspective the problem was the restrictions. Remove the restrictions and you’ve fixed the problems. But having too few or too ineffective regulations can be just as damaging as having too many. And this is what they got.

  254. 254
    Andy says:

    @redshirt: —- You’re fuckin’ right I’m redshirt! Auto redshirt! Three times decorated in two world wars! I was killing people while you were still swimming around in your father’s balls! You little scumbag! I worked five years in a slaughterhouse, and ten years as a prison guard in Attica
    So what?
    Auto redshirt:— So what? So never say fuck you to me! Because you haven’t earned the right yet!

  255. 255
    Kropadope says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    ETA Sanders supporters now threatening and doxxing Wyoming Democratic officials. What weird hatred. State party official’s tires deflated.

    AKA not Bernie. Don’t pretend like you haven’t been stoking the fires on this BS from the start. People feel shut out of the process because there has been an unwillingness to consider Democratic alternatives to Hillary Clinton throughout the establishment; but particularly within the media, which has no real business trying to make these decisions for people.

    One of the worst ways this has been done has been the tendency, from the very beginning, to take the focus off Bernie and redirect it toward a handful of obnoxious supporters. A man who has been working for decades for more economic security, equity, and fair treatment for everyone gets painted as a conniving, misogynist, racist neophyte because it’s not enough to support Hillary, true pure Dems will march in lockstep. It’s your own stupid-ass brand of purity pony bullshit and, because you don’t recognize it as such, you feel free in cudgeling people for any reservations they may have about a flawed candidate.

    Not only is it bad politics to deliberately chase away potential allies, it makes it look to some like these asshole Bernie supporters have a point. Good thing I’m not basing my feelings on the presumptive nominee by the attitudes and impolitic words of her dumbest supporters.

  256. 256
    Bailey says:

    @redshirt:

    Build on the gains of Barack Obama.

    That’s enough for me. But not for you, I assume?

    Looking at the general state of polling, does that seem to be working for anyone else? No? Okay, there’s your answer then.

  257. 257
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Fred B.: Not my problem you can’t write, asshole – but *definitely* my problem for not twigging immediately that your incoherence marked you as a Sandernista. I should, of course, have realized that you weren’t actually interested in dialogue. My apologies.

  258. 258
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Bailey:

    Current polling numbers would say different

    That worked great for Presidents Dukakis, McCain, and Romney.

  259. 259
    Andy says:

    @Adam L Silverman: American History X maybe.

  260. 260
  261. 261
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Kropadope: . Don’t pretend like you haven’t been stoking the fires on this BS from the start.

    you think Bernie supporters are doxxing people because I was snarky in the comments section of a fairly obscure (no offense, Cole) blog, and not because a spiteful, delusional, narcissistic old asshole has been telling them for five months that the only thing standing between them and Nordic Democratic Socialism is the Witch of Wall Street and her Speeches? Then you really are one dumb little fuck.

  262. 262
    redshirt says:

    @Bailey: You mean the polling where the sole Republican candidate is judged against a Democrat who is still in a primary against an opponent dedicated to dragging her down?

  263. 263
    Kropadope says:

    @Miss Bianca: A plainly obvious truth you don’t want to be true will obviously look like being unreasonable to you. Maybe I looked like I was being reasonable because I am fucking reasonable and maybe you might want to consider the possibility that I’m not talking out of my ass when I say the attitude around here has gone to shit. This is the first time I can remember in ages that I didn’t want to read this site reliably every day. Balloon Juice has become, by far, the largest drain on my enthusiasm for the election even though most of the people are supporting the same candidate I am because a noisy contingent of those people are being flaming assholes about it.

  264. 264
    SFAW says:

    @Andy:

    And he can’t handle the truth, either, right?

    Nicholson did the outrage thing better, although I guess it was someone else’s scriptwriting. (Well, except for the “You can’t handle the truth!” line.)

  265. 265
    Olduvai George says:

    @Bailey: Al Gore would have been president if the Supreme Court hadn’t appointed W. I blame Scalia, and thankfully the son of a bitch is dead.

  266. 266
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Adam L Silverman: But come on – seriously? The people who are appalled by Trump – who are looking at the surprising ineffectiveness of the Koch Bros. et al.’s efforts on the national front (did I just say that? I did) – aren’t they saying, even if only privately, “This is not what is supposed to happen?” – and drawing the necessary conclusions? or hell, any conclusions at all?. Or is that lack of self-reflection just part of the hollowing-out process?

  267. 267
    gwangung says:

    @Kropadope: please. Don’t treat folks like they’re stupid and forgot what you and they wrote. That’s insulting.

  268. 268
    Kropadope says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    you think Bernie supporters are doxxing people because I was snarky in the comments section of a fairly obscure (no offense, Cole) blog

    No, it’s because this has been going on through much of the political and media establishment, a fact which I discussed but you chose to ignore in your narrowly selective response. This bullshit has been flowing down from the top, we’re watching the full-scale industrialization of making left-wing dittoheads.

  269. 269
    Kropadope says:

    @gwangung: Huh?

  270. 270
    Andy says:

    @Miss Bianca: —–“namely, to say, “well, yeah, Sen. Sanders is the one we wanted, but Sec. Clinton is the one we’ve got, so let’s work with her.”
    Rather Rumsfeldian: “As you know, ah, you go to war with the army you have—not the army you might want or wish to have”
    “It never seems to occur to them that in this “revolution” they think they want, they just *might* end up the victims, rather than the victors.”
    Not likely, “The Berniebro is someone you may only have encountered if you’re somewhat similar to him: white; well-educated; middle-class (or, delicately, “upper middle-class”)”

  271. 271
    gwangung says:

    @Kropadope: Please consider that you’re looking into a mirror a great deal of the time. People give what they get.

  272. 272
    dollared says:

    @Loviatar: No, I think the country would benefit from President Sanders but I don’t think it’s going to happen. But the closer it comes to happening, the better for the 90% that Hillary doesn’t care about, except in principle but gosh its too hard to fight those Republicans. So no, you didn’t know what I was thinking.

  273. 273
    Andy says:

    @SFAW: Courtroom scene was great. Good movie. Scientology be damned. And couches/sofas.

  274. 274
    dollared says:

    @gwangung: Um, no. It means “you can’t read minds.”

    And fuck you for assuming somebody lies just because they don’t feel obligated to tell you what they’re thinking. Your assumption is the perfect embodiment of bad faith.

  275. 275
    Andy says:

    @redshirt: Repo Man, the Original and ONLY.

  276. 276
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Kropadope: , a fact which I discussed but you chose to ignore in your narrowly selective response.
    your first sentence was so breathtakingly stupid I didn’t read the rest at first, then when I did, I realized I had wasted my time

    No, it’s because this has been going on through much of the political and media establishment,… This bullshit has been flowing down from the top, we’re watching the full-scale industrialization of making left-wing ditto heads.

    I’m genuinely trying to follow the trail of stupidity and whining here: So everyone but Bernie and the Bernie Bros is responsible or what assholes Bernie and his Bros are? Indeed, not only are they not responsible, the fact that they are such raging assholes just proves that they’re victims?

    Shut the fuck up, Donnie.

    no one was “shut out of the process” . Bernie lost, even with the caucus system that favored him, an opponent who didn’t fight back, and a media that has treated him like a novelty candidate and ignored the pitfalls of his past and his proposals. He, and you, weren’t cheated, He, and you, lost.

    Shut the fuck up, Donnie.

  277. 277
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Kropadope: I give up. Fine, we’re all assholes. You say you’re going to vote for Clinton. Fine. Good for you. I’m glad you don’t need to be persuaded to do the right thing. If you want to whine about how bad that makes you feel and how awful it is that people here are rather forceful about their distaste for your preferred candidate, and how that just FORCES you to act like a sea-lioning jerk, I wish to Christ you’d just put a sock in it already. But whatever.

  278. 278
    redshirt says:

    @Andy: I’ve seen it, and yet had no recollection of those lines. Maybe I should watch it again – checking Netflix.

  279. 279
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Andy: You picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue. You have a problem with Robert Reich saying that the responsible thing for Sanders fans to do is vote for Clinton, even if she’s not their preferred candidate, take it up with him – as so many of your fellow travelers apparently have.

  280. 280
    dollared says:

    @Aimai: Um, no. “Pathetic pose of wounded virtue.” No, I’m not wounded. I’ve considered the source. I don’t know the source of your hatred, but it twists you into someone with decaying logic and integrity. I’m sorry for that. You used to be insightful. Now you are just angry at complete strangers because you think they (somehow, magically) risk the failure of your flawed political heroine.

    She will win or lose regardless of what Sanders does. But he will do his best to help her. Because he is a good man. After he is done with his run, which is his right.

  281. 281
    Andy says:

    @Miss Bianca: “So say ye all”

  282. 282
    Bailey says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    Could you be bothered with actually, oh, I don’t know – using this thing called the Internet that you are currently using to bitch and moan about Secretary Clinton – and going to her website? Maybe reading her positions on things? I know, it’s kind of a crazy suggestion.

    If her appeal and inability to project herself requires entirely on me (or anyone else) digging through her website, then she has a problem.

  283. 283
    gwangung says:

    @dollared: Actually, it assumes that people can infer what you’re thinking about from their statements and get a partial picture, revealing far more than they think they do . People do not have total control over what they reveal when they communicate, and they’re foolish if they think they do. I just didn’t think of you as foolish.

  284. 284
    Kropadope says:

    @gwangung: Fuck you, I spent months trying to talk reason to people here before I gave up and started devotedly ragging on them for being assholes. Too many people here think their support for Clinton makes them superior to others, automatically right and beyond debating the facts at hand. Why have a debate when you can just hurl insults?

  285. 285
    Bailey says:

    @Olduvai George:

    Al Gore would have been president if the Supreme Court hadn’t appointed W. I blame Scalia, and thankfully the son of a bitch is dead.

    Al Gore ran a completely inept and nearly pointless campaign that should have never included the Supreme Court as part of the election process. Your blame on who lost the election there is absurdly selective.

  286. 286
    amk says:

    Whether Hillary wins or loses, I think this election season is the final nail on the whiny loony left deadenders. Thanks bs.

  287. 287
    redshirt says:

    @Kropadope: Ah yes, that long period of time you “pretended” to be a troll.

    Who would have thought there would be consequences?

  288. 288
    tobie says:

    Did anyone watch the Rachel Maddow show tonight? Apparently BS is now contesting Barney Frank and Dan Malloy’s role on the steering committee for the convention. This shit just never ends!

  289. 289
    Andy says:

    @Kropadope:—- Because…you’re not an ADULT, obviously. //

  290. 290
    Bailey says:

    @redshirt:

    You mean the polling where the sole Republican candidate is judged against a Democrat who is still in a primary against an opponent dedicated to dragging her down?

    You keep believing that it’s someone else dragging her down and not, say, her general unfavorability. It’s probably that other candidate’s fault that Clinton was exposed to blatantly lying about the server in her house, confirming every worst trait that voters have known about her for decades. (Wait, did Bernie Bros put that there?!?)

  291. 291
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Bailey: I’d say you’re just not paying attention, then.

  292. 292
    SFAW says:

    @Andy:

    Scientology be damned.

    I used to live next to one of their churches. Oy.

  293. 293
    gwangung says:

    @Kropadope: Really? I seem to remember a lot of Sanders supporters as being particularly dismissive of minority concerns about Sanders. And they repeatedly ignored belittled reports of targeting of women and POCs criticizing Sanders. Some people think that’s being an asshole, but apparently YMMV.

  294. 294
    Andy says:

    @Andy: Miss Bianca likes to edit first replies I see.

  295. 295
    redshirt says:

    @Bailey: It’s a factor whether you admit it or not. It’s also a factor that other Dems can’t really campaign for her when the Primary is still on (COUGH: Barack). Sanders not just dead ending, but saying the entire system is corrupt and using lawyers to fight arcane, pointless battles is certainly not helping Clinton’s poll numbers, wouldn’t you guess?

  296. 296
    Kropadope says:

    @redshirt: Dude that was like two weeks out of a campaign season that started a year ago. Besides that, I’ve been here almost a decade posting under the same name. Throw scare quotes around pretended all you want; aside from that two week span, during which I said I wouldn’t vote for any Democrat including Bernie, I have been saying through the bulk of the campaign season that I would vote for Hillary. Shit, I even donated to her, I didn’t even do that for Bernie. I’ve been talking with friends about supporting her, I shared some of my success and failure stories here.

    I can support Hillary while still disagreeing with her on issues and also while thinking a small but noisy contingent of her supporters are flaming assholes.

  297. 297
    Andy says:

    @Kropadope: –Yeah, I’m with you. But 10 years ago a Democrat was a Democrat. Today…eh, not so much. It’s incrementalism.

  298. 298
    Bailey says:

    @redshirt:

    It’s a factor whether you admit it or not. It’s also a factor that other Dems can’t really campaign for her when the Primary is still on (COUGH: Barack). Sanders not just dead ending, but saying the entire system is corrupt and using lawyers to fight arcane, pointless battles is certainly not helping Clinton’s poll numbers, wouldn’t you guess?

    No, I would guess that voters are very aware of who Clinton is and what she’s about. She’s not this mystery candidate that is waiting for the smoke to clear so that we can more clearly get a view of her. I think she’s following pretty much every polling trend she’s ever had in every elective race she’s participated in: starts high when she’s the only one in the race, starts trending lower whenever she gets any real competition, never recovers any lost ground in polling and never gets much higher than the low that she landed at.

    I’d be happy for this trend to change this year, but I kind of doubt it. She is who she is and everyone knows who she is whether Sanders or Trump or the Libertarian Twins are in the race or not.

  299. 299
    Joel says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: SUSA has Clinton +18 in California, and that’s the most recent poll.

  300. 300
    Kropadope says:

    @gwangung:

    Really? I seem to remember a lot of Sanders supporters as being particularly dismissive of minority concerns about Sanders.

    Well, that wasn’t me and that, for the most part, wasn’t HERE, but on Twitter and other venues. By the way, I go after Sanders supporters who are being dickholes too. Nevertheless, any time I ever tried to have a serious debate HERE about the issues I got those assholes thrown in my face. “Bernie marched with MLK, har har har.” “Sanders supporters don’t believe that.” “You just want free shit.”

    It’s all been pathetically transparent deflection from the start from you pathetic puri-D ponies.

  301. 301
    Andy says:

    @SFAW: It’s ALL FSM to me anyhoo. So which version, blah.

  302. 302
    PatrickG says:

    @gwangung:

    I seem to remember a lot of Sanders supporters as being particularly dismissive of minority concerns about Sanders. And they repeatedly ignored belittled reports of targeting of women and POCs criticizing Sanders. Some people think that’s being an asshole, but apparently YMMV.

    I seem to remember that, too. Amazing that Kropadope can’t, though of course, they’re on record in this very thread as saying that harassment, death threats, and slashed tires are just what the Democratic Party made people do by shutting them out of the process and controlling the media.

    In fact, I’m actually kind of in awe that Kropadope responded to a comment about doxxing and threats with:

    Don’t pretend like you haven’t been stoking the fires on this BS from the start. People feel shut out of the process because there has been an unwillingness to consider Democratic alternatives to Hillary Clinton throughout the establishment; but particularly within the media, which has no real business trying to make these decisions for people.

    Why, that sounds almost exactly like Bernie Sanders’ statement after Nevada (“The Balloon Juice commentariat has a choice…”). Maybe people who listen to Sanders are actually influenced by Sanders? Wow! Who could have known?!

    TL;DR: Fuck off Kropadope. I have no patience with people who excuse or minimize violent behavior for political reasons, and you’ve done so repeatedly. Go vote for Trump if you’re that pissed — this is the issue on which I am a purity pony.

    ETA: Kropadope, you can’t be serious about Bernie supporters not pulling this kind of dismissive shit at Balloon Juice during the early primaries. You’re either lying, or you have a seriously selective memory.

  303. 303
    Kropadope says:

    @Andy:

    Yeah, I’m with you. But 10 years ago a Democrat was a Democrat. Today…eh, not so much. It’s incrementalism

    Increments are important and all we could’ve realistically expected out of Bernie either. I just thought Bernie would be able to out-increment Clinton.

  304. 304
    Percysowner says:

    @tobie:

    Did anyone watch the Rachel Maddow show tonight? Apparently BS is now contesting Barney Frank and Dan Malloy’s role on the steering committee for the convention. This shit just never ends!

    I saw that and you’re right, it never ends. Honestly, I think the Democratic Party has to instate a rule that says you can’t run for President if you haven’t been a member of the party for at least one election cycle. The party has no way to stop this guy from trying to overthrow the will of the voters. What a mess.

  305. 305
    PatrickG says:

    Missed the edit window: that was SOME Bernie supporters, because, you know, I have to add that qualifier to help people who can’t interpret context or think outside of monolithic groups.

    I think I’ll go enjoy a nice Friday night instead of working up my blood pressure.

  306. 306
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Andy: But 10 years ago a Democrat was a Democrat. Today…eh, not so much. It’s incrementalism.

    Yeah, if Bernie! had true revolutionaries like Blanche Lincoln, Mark Pryor, Mary Landrieu, Jim Webb, Ben Nelson, Tim Johnson, Ken Salazar and Robert Byrd standing behind him, the Revolution would already be here.

  307. 307
    Kropadope says:

    @PatrickG:

    I seem to remember that, too. Amazing that Kropadope can’t, though of course, they’re on record in this very thread as saying that

    I go after Bernie supporters who I think are being assholes too. I do it where I encounter them, though. I’m sorry you and your local cohort are too cowardly to engage those vicious losers where they are, I’m not sorry that you’re too cowardly to engage in honest debate with Sanders supporters who aren’t doing that.

  308. 308
    divF says:

    @Kropadope:
    If we are assholes, it is because we have had to watch with horror as the Sanders campaign who is running for the party’s candidacy accuses the winning candidate of being a corporate bitch and the party of being a pit of filth and corruption. The horror comes not from hurt feelings, but an acute awareness of the abyss on which this country stands. Many of Sanders’ followers take positive glee at the possibility that the country will be “punished” for not selecting their guy by the election of Trump as President, and the resulting retrenchment of a nearly a century of social progress.

    As the process started, the Clinton supporters on this board, to a man / woman, said that they would enthusiastically support Sanders if he were the nominee. If you care about the people in this country, you will do the same for Clinton, and knock off the whining. Otherwise, get the fuck out of our faces. Your are projecting onto us the Sanders’ supporters sneering and the desire to hold the country hostage, and using that projection as an excuse for jerking our chains. We’re not sneering, we are genuinely frightened for the future.

  309. 309
    redshirt says:

    @Bailey: While your point may be true, it won’t matter if Clinton wins in November. Which I fully expect her to. And I became a Clinton supporter over Sanders because she is a stronger general election candidate, which is the only factor that matters to me. Sanders is an incredibly weak general election candidate and it scares me he’s actually this close to winning the primary. Thank FSM he won’t. Though I do think the trends he represents are good for Democrats and good for America.

  310. 310
    Bailey says:

    @divF:

    As the process started, the Clinton supporters on this board, to a man / woman, said that they would enthusiastically support Sanders if he were the nominee. If you care about the people in this country, you will do the same for Clinton, and knock off the whining. Otherwise, get the fuck out of our faces. Your are projecting onto us the Sanders’ supporters sneering and the desire to hold the country hostage, and using that projection as an excuse for jerking our chains. We’re not sneering, we are genuinely frightened for the future.

    Yes, and if you look at polling, you’d see that 72% of Sanders voters have committed to voting for HRC in the general. At this time in 2008, only 60% of HRC supporters said that about Barack Obama. And Sanders voters are the assholes here?

  311. 311
    Soylent Green says:

    @Fred B.:

    If you want Hillary to win, don’t go out of your way to alienate Bernie’s supporters.

    Aw, poor Fred got his feelings hurt and might get even with us on election day by refusing to vote to save America from disaster. Good to know you have your priorities in order.

  312. 312
    Andy says:

    @Kropadope: @Jim, Foolish Literalist: -I stand corrected…30 years ago.

  313. 313
    divF says:

    @Bailey: The difference is that Clinton eventually brought most of those remaining 40% on board. She was and is a lifelong Democrat, and so were her supporters, so they were susceptible to persuasion. As I said above, Sanders is not just slagging Clinton, but the party as a whole. How is he going to walk that back?

    ETA: Also, I don’t recall any of the PUMAs saying that we “deserved” Palin, or gleefully savoring the prospect of Obama losing.

  314. 314
    PatrickG says:

    @Kropadope:

    Kropadope, I engage with honest interlocutors all the time. You, on the other hand, are not honest, you are not consistent, and I absolutely do not believe you are sincere. That’s especially true because you’re apparently conflating an intolerance for violent actions with…. cowardice? The fuck is wrong with you?

    So yeah, you’re an admitted asshole who’s only here because you think others are assholes, and who’s totally fine with threats and harassment as a political tool. Why should I or anybody else engage with you? You have nothing to add to the conversation.

  315. 315
    Miss Bianca says:

    @divF: This.

  316. 316
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Andy: Sam Nunn, Richard Shelby, Phil Gramm, Fritz Hollings, John Breaux, Robert Byrd (still), Alan Dixon…

  317. 317
    Kropadope says:

    @divF:

    If we are assholes, it is because we have had to watch with horror as the Sanders campaign who is running for the party’s candidacy accuses the winning candidate of being a corporate bitch and the party as a pit of filth and corruption.

    Good job both mischaracterizing on of Bernie’s positions and, again, conflating him with one of his more intemperate supporters whom he immediately denounced.

    As the process started, the Clinton supporters on this board, to a man / woman, said that they would enthusiastically support Sanders if he were the nominee.

    Yet, too many here tell Sanders’s D supporters as well as assorted independents that they don’t want their involvement, while at the same time acting entitled to the votes of those same people.

    If you care about the people in this country, you will do the same for Clinton, and knock off the whining.

    I do support Clinton, I have said so repeatedly. I just want to be able to come here without sifting through hundreds and hundreds of disparaging, often false, comments about Bernie and the constant harping on his supporters, like they’re a fucking monolith. I want to feel like I can come here with uttering a daily loyalty oath. My once favorite website is becoming a drag on my enthusiasm for politics generally and it’s making me sad. No one took me any more seriously when I was playing nice, I got all the same attitudes from the same set of people when I was claiming I refused to vote for anyone with the D label. Not only was there no benefit for trying to talk reason, trolling at least shut up all the condescending assholes who were telling me I was “one of the good ones.” Fuck that noise.

  318. 318
    Bailey says:

    @divF:

    The difference is that Clinton eventually brought most of those remaining 40% on board. She was and is a lifelong Democrat, and so were her supporters, so they were susceptible to persuasion. As I said above, Sanders is not just slagging Clinton, but the party as a whole. How is he going to walk that back?

    The difference here is that you’re not even allowing the primary process to conclude before deciding what Sanders will or will not do. And even at this point, he has unequivocably said that he will support HRC in November.

    ETA: Also, I don’t recall any of the PUMAs saying that we “deserved” Palin, or gleefully savoring the prospect of Obama losing.

    You’re kidding, right? I think you’re deliberately not remembering how nasty and racist the PUMAs were.

  319. 319
    Kropadope says:

    @PatrickG:

    who’s totally fine with threats and harassment as a political tool.

    The fact that you think this is exactly what I’m complaining about. I’m not fucking OK with it at all. I can not be OK with that and still not be OK with you. These aren’t mutually exclusive things.

  320. 320
    PatrickG says:

    @Kropadope:

    Then why — for God’s sake WHY — do you engage in the classic rhetorical tactic of responding to threats and violence with a “YES BUT”? This is why I judge you as insincere and dishonest.

    It took this many comments for you to categorically say you’re “not fucking OK with it at all”. Up until then, you were busy providing excuses for why people should be OK with it, or empathize with people who are sending death threats, harassing mostly women and minorities, and in general behaving like reactionary assholes. It is possible — even very possible, since most do — to be a Sanders supporter and not make excuses for the minority who engages in this behavior.

    That’s precisely what Sanders did in his not-pology, and it’s precisely what you were doing here. I have no use or patience for people who do these things. At all. And I honestly do not believe you’re sincere when you say you’re not fucking OK with it, because you only seem to condemn it when pressed directly. If you weren’t fucking OK with it, you wouldn’t be defending it with cries of “BUT INJUSTICE! AND HILLBOTS ARE SO MEAN!”.

    By the way, I’m totally fine with you not being OK with me. I’m pretty not OK with you, which I’m sure will just feed into your persecution complex. Oy.

    ETA: Throwing a lovely BBQ tomorrow. Some of our guests will be ardent Sanders supporters. Somehow, we’ll manage to coexist and enjoy each others’ company (even talk politics!). Because, y’know, they’re not assholes. I know this because they choose to hang out with me, which is a pretty selfless act.

  321. 321
    Kropadope says:

    @PatrickG:

    And I honestly do not believe you’re sincere when you say you’re not fucking OK with it, because you only seem to condemn it when pressed directly.

    Right, because the idiot Bernie supporters who are doing threatening people aren’t doing so HERE. I am having a conversation HERE, with people HERE, about disagreements I have with THEM.

    The fact that almost no Clinton supporter on Balloon Juice can have a conversation about Bernie without constant whining about Berniebros is pathetic. I’m sick of having the bad behavior of others thrown in my face by people who can’t deal with being confronted with their own problems.

    I am not responsible for the bad behavior of Berniebros, nor am I responsible for every idiotic thing said on Twitter. The second that idiot assholes stop treating me like I am will be when I stop complaining, not a moment sooner.

  322. 322
    Aimai says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: bingo! Cant wait for the tear sosked, shaky cam, docu-drama “the martyrdom of st bernie and his fans.” The key scenes will involve their torture and slow death from snarky comments in online fora. Chilling and moving!

  323. 323
    AnotherBruce says:

    @redshirt: Sanders is not, by any definition, “close” to winning the primary, and he really hasn’t been since he was defeated and resoundingly in Ohio and Florida. I’ll admit that there was an uncomfortable time when Sanders upset Clinton in Michigan. I even consoled myself with the idea that I could support Sanders, it feels weird to type that now. But really this thing is over. There are too many primaries that favor Clinton. Even if California is a close race, there is New Jersey, Puerto Rico, New Mexico and Washington D.C. All of those are going to go with Clinton by a significant margin.That leaves the small delegate count states of Montana and South Dakota for Bernie. It’s over, relax.

  324. 324
    PatrickG says:

    I am not responsible for the bad behavior of Berniebros, nor am I responsible for every idiotic thing said on Twitter.

    Bernie Sanders is. Bernie Sanders had an opportunity to condemn this behavior, and chose to wave it off. As do you.

    Could you stop being personally offended that other people are profoundly troubled by this? I’m not asking you to be personally responsible for the behavior of others. I’m asking you to condemn it in the strongest possible terms, because it’s wrong. Don’t make excuses. Don’t offer explanations. Just say it’s wrong and then don’t continue to deflect.

    And yes, whining about how Hillary supporters are mean is deflection. You’ve got to stop “Yes, But”-ing.

    This, apparently, is too much for you. Therefore, I judge you to be an asshole I don’t want to be associated with.

    ETA a few times for impassioned pleas.
    ETA2 If you’ve lost the non-violent protester vote, you’ve fucking lost.

  325. 325
    Applejinx says:

    @NobodySpecial: I think this sums it up. Here’s my take on what it meant:

    Bernie never intended to slag Hillary. He was going to gut Trump like a fish, in hopes of stealing away his base of support. It could have worked a little bit, but it wouldn’t have won him the Dem nomination because it weakens Trump but angers Democrats.

    Trump can count. He’s seen the Bernie crowds. No way was he going to debate Bernie. The very best he can do is to panic, weasel out of it and then claim it’s because Bernie is such a small time pissant that it would be ridiculous for Great Mister Trump to debate him, he’s so huge he doesn’t need to debate anybody!

    Watch for him to pull the same trick on Hillary, claiming she lies so much that it’s pointless to debate: and, just like he has tried successfully to get the Clinton people to buy his framing, in that case he will depend on getting the Sanders people to accept THAT framing.

    I’m real disappointed in a lot of the Clinton people here playing right into the guy’s hands. He would NOT have won a debate and Bernie was not going to go anti-Clinton, Bernie was going to do his same stump speech for the 10000th time but to a relatively fresh audience. Trump couldn’t let that happen as it would prime them for the idea of pulling the lever for Clinton, and Bernie would be aware of that.

    Rather than waiting expectantly to see the Clinton people losing their minds when Trump refuses to debate Clinton on the grounds of total dishonesty and the Sanders people go along with it (which ain’t a foregone conclusion EVEN IF the Clinton people have absolutely gone along with how Trump wanted things framed), how about we pull our heads out and recognize: they’re both a lot better than Trump at their worst, Trump has no intention of debating either of them, and he’s going to spin things with manipulative framings designed to widen the fracturing of the Democratic base?

    Or I guess you could just go along with a ‘Trump so powerful’ narrative because he’s made it play along with your pet hates. It doesn’t matter for Bernie because he’s not going to win, he just reached for a good opportunity to seriously weaken Trump and it was a fake opportunity (predictably; everything Trump is fake) It doesn’t hurt anybody but Trump to admit Bernie would have beaten him like a drum using the same old stump speech like he always does, to a new audience.

    I guess we’ll see if you’re still saying ‘Trump so powerful’ when he’s trying to get the Sanders people to go along with a ‘nobody would debate Clinton because she’d just lie about everything’ narrative, in hopes of sucking the Sanders people into that position and siding with him.

    Can you maybe not side with Donald Trump just because he’s pretty good at playing you? He’s doing it on purpose and it’s about the only thing he is good at. Hillary Clinton would be impossibly better than this moron at governing, and it matters.

  326. 326
    Nick Reynolds says:

    Cole has gone full fucktard. Disappointing. He used to be fun and insightful. Now I just have to read BillMon’s Twitter feed to get funny, actual political insight. Not blabbering from a self righteous AA douche. We get it, you don’t drink and don’t like Bernie Sanders. Lose some god damn weight and get a girlfriend already, maybe that will cheer you up and get your head out of your ass.

  327. 327
    Kropadope says:

    @PatrickG:

    I’m not asking you to be personally responsible for the behavior of others.

    Sure you aren’t.

    I’m asking you to condemn it in the strongest possible terms

    Over and over and over, in a perfunctory manner. What you’re actually asking for is for anyone who can’t get on the 24/7 Bernie-bashing Bandwagon to take a hike.

  328. 328
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Applejinx: Bernie never intended to slag Hillary.

    Right, constantly harping on “THE SPEECHES” was meant to support her! Just like using Cornel West as a surrogate was meant to build a bridge to Obama supporters

  329. 329
  330. 330
    Bob In Portland says:

    What wars are we now in that are necessary?

  331. 331
    DCF says:

    Bernie Sanders On Debating Donald Trump On The Young Turks
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKHFoI10uRc
    Bernie Sanders | The 2nd Young Turks Interview (FULL)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qipncSCMMrc

  332. 332
    Cleos says:

    @les:

    I’ve said it before–Bernie should be embarrassed at the sheer ignorance of his followers

    .

    I doubt it. Their ignorance has been too useful.

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