This is a very welcome development:
Gov. Terry McAuliffe of Virginia will use his executive power on Friday to restore voting rights to more than 200,000 convicted felons, circumventing his Republican-run legislature. The action will overturn a Civil War-era provision in the state’s Constitution aimed, he said, at disenfranchising African-Americans.
The sweeping order, in a swing state that could play a role in deciding the November presidential election, will enable all felons who have served their prison time and finished parole to register to vote. Most are African-Americans, a core constituency of Democrats, Mr. McAuliffe’s political party.
“There’s no question that we’ve had a horrible history in voting rights as relates to African-Americans — we should remedy it,” Mr. McAuliffe said Thursday, previewing the announcement he will make on the steps of Virginia’s Capitol, just yards from where President Abraham Lincoln once addressed freed slaves. “We should do it as soon as we possibly can.”
The action, which Mr. McAuliffe said was justified under an expansive legal interpretation of his executive clemency authority, goes far beyond what other governors have done, experts say, and will almost certainly provoke a backlash from Virginia Republicans, who have resisted measures to expand felons’ voting rights. It has been planned in secrecy, and comes amid an intensifying national debate over race, mass incarceration and the criminal justice system.
Even if what he has done is a stretch of his authority, I commend him for this. This is a fight worth having.
I have never understood why it was legal or constitutional to strip someone of their most basic right, the franchise, simply because they at one time in their life were a felon. It makes no sense, it flies in the face of the concept of rehabilitation, and it, because of the systemic racism in our criminal justice system, is racist in its application.
So let the Republicans have their backlash. Let them take it all the way to the highest court in the land and let’s setle this once and for all.
Robin G.
Ooooooh, this is going to be nasty. Definitely worth doing, and good for him (though let’s not pretend it wouldn’t be a sudden priority if it wasn’t likely to deliver VA for the Dems, but what public good has ever been done selflessly?), but the backlash will be disgusting.
J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford
As obnoxious as he can be, McAuliffe seems to be a fairly decent governor.
Emma
OHBOYOHBOYOHBOYOHBOY. A fight for the ages. Good for him.
guachi
If push comes to shove, couldn’t McAuliffe completely pardon every one of them? Is this action something like a partial pardon where he wipes away one part of the punishment (voting) but leaves the felony conviction in place?
West of the Cascades
short summary of the reasoning that felon disenfranchisement is constitutional (from Wikipedia) – it rests on the language of the 14th Amendment, but still seems a stretch:
Unlike most laws that burden the right of citizens to vote based on some form of social status, felony disenfranchisement laws have been held to be constitutional. In Richardson v. Ramirez (1974), the United States Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of felon disenfranchisement statutes, finding that the practice did not deny equal protection to disenfranchised voters. The Court looked to Section 2 of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution, which proclaims that States which deny the vote to male citizens, except by “participation in rebellion, or other crime,” will suffer a reduction in representation. Based on this language, the Court found that this amounted to an “affirmative sanction” of the practice of felon disenfranchisement, and the 14th Amendment could not prohibit in one section that which is expressly authorized in another.
But, critics of the practice argue that Section 2 of the 14th Amendment allows, but does not represent an endorsement of, felony disenfranchisement statutes as constitutional in light of the equal protection clause and is limited only to the issue of reduced representation. The Court ruled in Hunter v. Underwood 471 U.S. 222, 232 (1985) that a state’s crime disenfranchisement provision will violate Equal Protection if it can be demonstrated that the provision, as enacted, had “both [an] impermissible racial motivation and racially discriminatory impact.” (The law in question also disenfranchised people convicted of vagrancy, adultery, and any misdemeanor “involving moral turpitude”; the test case involved two individuals who faced disenfranchisement for presenting invalid checks, which the state authorities had found to be morally turpid behavior.) A felony disenfranchisement law, which on its face is indiscriminate in nature, cannot be invalidated by the Supreme Court unless its enforcement is proven to racially discriminate and to have been enacted with racially discriminatory animus
Xboxershorts
restoring the franchise is commendable. This fight could also restore 2nd amendment rights to felons.
Something to think about….
Elizabelle
Proud of Governor McAuliffe. Good on him.
singfoom
Wow, that is great news. I’ve never understood stripping felons of the right to vote permanently either. But as with many things about our legal system, it seems that lip service is paid to the idea of rehabilitation and punishment and marginalization is what’s actually done.
Can’t wait to hear the squeals of the Republican VA legislature. How do you defend stripping someone’s voting rights after serving their time?
different-church-lady
I’m so old I can remember when everyone thought he was a horrible person because he was chairman of the DNC.
Davis X. Machina
In addition to race, “felon” — even an accused felon — has always been a special stigma
Until legislation in 1836, there was no right to counsel — not public defenders, any counsel — for accused felons in England.
Betty Cracker
Florida makes it really tough — a convicted felon loses the right to vote for life unless the governor or a review board restores it. More than a million and a half Floridians are thus disenfranchised. Thanks to Republicans, of course.
@different-church-lady: I remember thinking he was an obnoxious prick back during the Clinton vs Obama primary. But he seems to be a decent governor, from what I’ve read.
Tripod
@different-church-lady:
The Aloha shirt and bottle of rum TV appearance was the highlight of 2008.
horatius
@J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford: He’s been more than decent. His biggest fights with the Republiclown legislature were about abortion, contraception, medicaid and voting rights. He shot down an anti-LGBT bill in the most forceful way possible.
He’s and excellent governor and if he ever runs for President, he has my vote.
Tripod
Fuck white supremacy. That’s all this shit is, and all it will ever be.
Davebo
@Elizabelle:
I don’t see how any executive or legislative action by a state is going to override 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(1).
Supremacy clause and all.
Keith G
Ideas such as this need to be part of the brand that the Democratic Party establishes for itself going forward. One of the reasons there has been a bit of discontent for Secretary Clinton on the part of some was the feeling that she had more traditional list ideas and was not prone to push the boundaries as far left word as many would like to see.
Political inertia, aided by a lack of imagination and maybe even a little bit of cowardice, is the cause of us doing many stupid things that really need to be changed.
Gin & Tonic
@different-church-lady: I certainly was not among his fans, but he certainly seems to be making decent decisions as Governor. People can change.
WarMunchkin
I don’t get it, haven’t they served their time? This shouldn’t even be a thing. I’m even further left of this, I’m not even sure people should be denied their right to vote at all, but that’s besides the point. The justice system that we’ve followed is crime -> punishment -> go do your thang. There shouldn’t be a punishment overhang on civil rights.
patrick II
@West of the Cascades:
As opposed to a state’s crime disenfranchisement provisions, what about national intentions?
— John Ehrlichman
gwangung
@Keith G:
I think folks can push her on this. I can appreciate her setting a position that’s more conservative, particularly given her age and her time in more conservative places, but if we push locally, I think she will shift to accommodate.
Barbara
As a Virginia resident, let me just say that the next time someone tells you there is no difference between Republicans and Democrats, you can point to McAuliffe as Exhibit A for why this isn’t true. McAuliffe is a third way DLC guy that progressives love to hate, but he has done so much to neutralize if not quite completely reverse (because he can’t) the damage done by wolf in sheep’s clothing now convicted felon McDonnell, who gerrymandered the state, tried to regulate abortion out of existence with onerous clinic regulation, doubled down on voter ID laws, and, of course, would not dream of expanding Medicaid. If McAuliffe is the worst Democrats can do, he is still light years better than the best the Republicans have to offer.
kindness
Republican’s salty tears are delicious.
@Xboxershorts: I think felon’s who served their time and have paid for their errors have paid. I think Republicans are more afraid of a black man with a vote than they are of a black man with a gun. But that is just me.
Matt McIrvin
When I was in Virginia, this would have caused a white backlash that would lose the Democrats more votes than they gained.
Virginia now is not Virginia then. Maybe it’s time.
Baud
@Barbara:
Infinite this.
Davis X. Machina
In Maine, even ncarcerated felons have the right to vote. (Preens….)
terraformer
Nice, this is good. Now go further and remove all of the BS “mitigations” against voter fraud. It’s amazing that all of the actions that have been instituted in various states haven’t been shown for what they really are, which is to disenfranchise people who vote for Democrats. Not to mention how votes are cast and counted – I’m tired of how votes are always mysteriously “lost” or “added” between and within States after elections are held, almost always to the benefit of Republicans. In short, Republicans mess with elections, and always get a pass and/or nothing is done about it.
randy khan
I have a friend in the Virginia House of Delegates, and this has been a big issue for her. I suspect she had something to do what happened today, but even if not, I’m happy for her and proud of what McAuliffe has done.
McAuliffe does come across as a little obnoxious, but his actual actions as governor have been great. He’s pushed very hard for Medicaid expansion (unsuccessfuly, as the House of Delegates is dominated by conservative Republicans) and as noted above, taken other positive executive actions and vetoed a ton of bad legislation. It kind of makes me sad that Virginia has a dopey one-term limit for governors. (That said, the Attorney General, Mark Herring, is very good, too, and it looks like he’s going to take a shot in the next election.)
Mike in NC
Republicans are all about stopping people from voting, unless they’re in the top 1% income category.
Brachiator
Depends on the felony. I don’t think that all crimes should be forgiven. I don’t think that rehabilitation should necessarily mean that all voting rights should be restored.
Charles Manson disciple Leslie Van Houten was recently granted parole. I don’t care that she might be unable to vote.
hellslittlestangel
@J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford: Difficult as it can be in some cases, this is why you have to place party and principles over personality. McAuliffe has been a very good Democratic governor.
Mary
@WarMunchkin: I’m pretty far to the left on this too. I view the sex offenders list to be even worse than disenfranchisement (which in and of itself is obviously horrible) because it leads to further human rights abuses like housing discrimination, which in many cases effectively leaves felons homeless because they are literally zoned out of entire swaths of municipalities.
Gin & Tonic
@Davis X. Machina: And yet you still have the country’s stupidest Governor.
Paul in KY
@guachi: Think he could, but (IMO) would be politically unwise.
Paul in KY
@Barbara: Very well said, Barbara!
burnspbesq
@gwangung:
Gotta respectfully disagree. There’s a genuine federalism issue here. The states get to do their thing, on a state-by-state basis, unless (as noted above) the decision is driven by racial animus. The Federal government can make decisions about Federal parolees, but Federal prisoners represent (IIRC) only about 15 percent of the total prison population. At best, a President can do her bully-pulpit thang; she’ll be studiously ignored. If the goal is to move Andrew Cuomo and Jerry Brown, that might best be accomplished quietly.
Miss Bianca
@Barbara:
Word. Word(s) that need repeated.
gvg
Actually I don’t think incarcerated prisoners should vote because I think they are too subject to intimidation or outright vote stealing. They can’t get away from bully’s or enforcers and corrupt prison authorities could probably arrange to sell their votes for instance. If we didn’t have such a pervasive cultural approval of violence in prisons and actually watched out for prisoners rights it would be different but right now I think it wouldn’t actually increase their rights and freedoms.
on the other hand I don’t quite see the legality of denying them the right to vote while out on parole. Even though I am just a prone to fearing felons as most because of cultural conditioning, they are still (most) citizens with fundemental rights.
Keith G
@gwangung: I agree with that and that is part of why I feel that in some ways there is a bit of a philosophical advantage in a Clinton presidency that was not had during an Obama presidency. By that I mean that folks are just going to expect less out of Clinton than was expected from Obama on day one.
Because of that I think there’s more likely to be the type of political pushing and pulling going on to make sure that a Clinton presidency covers the ideas that people think are important.
Let me venture a bit of a hypothesis that during the Obama presidency many usually strongly noisy constituent groups were prone to sit back and just let Obama do it. Now, that changed over time, but in the beginning there were a lot of imagination-fueled expectations on what Obama would be setting out to do.
I think that it will be likely that there will develop a very healthy mindset that says, “We really like President Hillary Clinton and we know we are going to have to watch her carefully.”
Just Some Fuckhead, Clinton Supporter
I’m already starting to sweat this one. What if it makes Republicans mad? What if they yell at us or something? Maybe we should have kept our powder dry.
Major Major Major Major
White supremacy knows no bounds.
This always pissed me off. Good for Terry.
@different-church-lady: I too remember when he was “at least the devil we know” and “just another Clinton flack.”
Cacti
Good for him.
Voting rights should be reinstated automatically following completion of sentence.
scav
To a cetain degree, I’m less worried by former prisoners (as a broad class) having guns than by idiot fetishists, especially idiot fetishists waving their pet-sticks as personal political statement and with kids in the immediate vicinity (which is only a subset of the broad gun-owning class). There’s room for a lot of fine-tuning on gun-ownership. And I’ve certainly got no worries about letting them vote: it’s a big country and hedge-fund mangers still get their ballots..
Aimai
@different-church-lady: LOL
The Ancient Randonneur
@Davis X. Machina:
As does Vermont. Two of the whitest states in the Union. I imagine if your Governor had his way the law would be changed because of the “thugs” going to Maine to impregnate all those innocent white girls.
@Gin & Tonic:
Kansas might disagree with you.
Major Major Major Major
Stray observations:
1. Yikes, that guy was a big ‘ol racist!
2. But he still co-wrote an important piece of bank legislation.
Politics is weird, coalition-building is ugly, and purity is impractical. Who wants some sausage?
Frank Wilhoit
It matters how it gets to the Supreme Court, being as how Senator Grassley the other day ruled out any consideration of a Supreme Court nominee until at least 2021 or, quite possibly, 2025. The game for the Republicans will be to get this action overturned by a sympathetic appeals court, which would then be sustained by a 4-4 Supreme Court.
Familiarize selfs, btw, with the phrase “civil disability”. You’re going to be hearing it a lot, in many different contexts, in the years ahead.
Eric U.
@Barbara: In the past, McAuliffe was one of those Democratic Politicians that could be counted on to say something bad about the Dems and whitewash the craziness of the republicans. I think a lot of those guys woke up. Rendell was the same. Rendell was a good governor, far better than any Republican. Obama has been remarkably free of Democraitc critics
I certainly was happy that McAuliffe was elected even given the above. Virginia Republicans are far crazier than the state, it’s too bad. I’m old enough to remember when they were the liberal ones.
Citizen_X
I like this. Let’s pick more fights. How about we take on abortion restrictions next?
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
Chag Sameach.
The Ancient Randonneur
@Just Some Fuckhead, Clinton Supporter: Relax. I’m sure the Democrats have strongly worded letters ready for Speaker Ryan and Senator McConnell.
patrick II
HBO has “In the Heat of the Night” back in rotation right now. I watched it last week. For those of you who haven’t seen it, it is about a educated black detective from Philadelphia being caught up in a murder in a small southern town. It won five Oscars, including best picture. Sydney Poitier plays the detective who is smart and dignified among the various characters from the small town who don’t know what to make of him. It was shot in 1967 and Poitier insisted that the movie be shot in the North after the KKK nearly killed him on an earlier trip to the South, so most of the movie was shot in Sparta, IL. They did do a plantation scene in Georgia but had to leave early because of threats from the KKK.
Many of you may have seen the TV series based on the movie. The movie is, in all regards, a thousand times better. It is one of the few movies I saw fifty years ago and have always remembered.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
I remember from a trip to Colonial Williamsburg (Virginia) that felonies were crimes where the death penalty was available (and/or prison sentences of over 1 year could be imposed). The term and legal history is quite interesting (32 page .pdf). “Infamous” crimes (breach of he public trust, etc.) could result in the loss of the right to vote or serve on a jury, but wouldn’t necessarily be felonies.
It seems that lots of legal thinking has been combined together over the years. Too many people seem to think that all the legal conventions from a time when losing a horse to a thief could result in starvation must still apply today. It’ll be interesting to see how “felonies” are regarded when the death penalty is finally outlawed in the US.
Cheers,
Scott.
(“Vote Teabagger! Bring back the stocks, pinning, and branding!!1!”)
david10
@Tripod: There is the crime of being black in public, there is also the crime of being poor in public.All poor people, no matter what their color, know that they can be stopped, arrested on a bullshit charge and then “plea bargained” into a jail sentence. Witnesses don’t protest because that is interpreted as interfering with a police officer and sends the protester to jail as well. So good for the governor. Policing should be crime control. not social control.
Chyron HR
Nice try, but I’m not buying anything this third-way DLC neoliberal who’s known to consort with Hillary Clinton tries to sell me. #WhichTerry
? Martin
@Tripod:
This.
Just Some Fuckhead, Clinton Supporter
@Chyron HR: Guilt by association once removed is still guilt by association!
Miss Bianca
@patrick II: Isn’t Carroll O’Connor (of Archie Bunker fame) in that one, too?
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@horatius: McAuliffee pissed off a lot of liberals with his undercutting of AG Herring on reciprocity on gun permits with other states, etc. I think he did the best he could with the bad hand he has (with the GOP controlling both houses of the legislature). Herring’s a really good guy, but it was unlikely that his action was going to stand much longer.
Terry Mac has indeed been a good governor and has been the only thing preventing lots of horrible laws from taking effect. He could have done so much more with a Team D legislature. (sigh)
Cheers,
Scott.
Redshift
I didn’t like McAuliffe much back in the old days, and I was pretty annoyed when he jumped into the primary for governor the first time around, but he’s been a really good governor.
One thing I would like to actually see a constitutional amendment for is to add an affirmative right to vote to the Bill of Rights. Something like “The will of the people being essential to a democratic system, the right to vote shall not be infringed.” (My specific language here is mostly to tweak the ammosexuals by making it parallel the 2nd amendment, but ideally it would be written in such a way as to provide a basis for voters challenging BS like voter ID laws.)
Just Some Fuckhead, Clinton Supporter
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
I was one of his earliest and most vocal critics. I called him Terry McAwful and excoriated him from everything like his neo-liberalism to his imagined lack of ethics to his drunken Clinton campaign antics. I’m thrilled with his performance and thank god he listened to me and changed, and learned and is a better person for it.
Redshift
@Citizen_X:
Another one of his vetoes was about that. And another was about Planned Parenthood funding. And another was about NC-style bathroom regulation.
All of this was enabled by our campaign work last year. We didn’t do as well as we hoped, but we reduced the GOP majority in the House of Delegates below the veto-override number. Incremental gains can accomplish a lot.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@WarMunchkin: I generally agree – if you’ve served your sentence and satisfied all the parole conditions, then you should be able to resume your place in society.
That’s why I’m uncomfortable with sex offender registries and the like. I don’t know of a better way to handle the problem of truly heinous cases, but it seems wrong to me in general. There has to be a better way.
Cheers,
Scott.
Major Major Major Major
@Chyron HR: Ew, he consorted with her? #cankles
Chyron HR
@Major Major Major Major:
Consorted, cavorted, thwarted and aborted. This guy’s not just DLC, he’s fucking on-disc DLC.
rikyrah
ELECTIONS. HAVE.CONSEQUENCES.
Hovercraft
I’m sorry to be off topic but Dame Peggy is more overwrought than usual this week, there must be a shortage of gin on the Upper West Side. America is dying, and we are all doomed, because no new Reagan is here to save us from the death and destruction wrought by liberals. https://www.google.com/?ion=1&espv=2#q=That+Moment+When+2016+Hits+You
Frank Wilhoit
@? Martin: So wearisome to see the symptom still being mistaken for the disease. It is
“white supremacy” on the surface, but it is sadism underneath. Re-tilt the playing field, reshuffle the actors, so as to take race out of play: some other victim will instantly be found. You can’t fight (or even evade) what you’ve mistaken the essential nature of.
Gin & Tonic
@Miss Bianca: O’Connor is in the TV series, not the movie. Rod Steiger played that character in the movie.
patrick II
@Miss Bianca:
No, Carrol O’Connor was in the TV series. Rod Steiger was the sheriff in the movie and he was tremendous. If you want to see a great movie and have some taste of small town southern culture in the 60’s — so you have some sense of where all of this racial animosity is coming from — I cannot recommend this movie highly enough.
Miss Bianca
@Chyron HR: Yup, because RESULTS don’t matter to us True Radicals, only Proper Ideology! We’re not going to be *voting* the revolution in, after all, so who cares about voting rights?
Hovercraft
I was never a fan of Terry but he has been a net positive unlike Rahm. And also too the alternative was the Couch. We could be watching him be governor instead of begging delegates to support Cruz. Small mercies.
MattF
Looking over from nearby Maryland, Virginia made a good choice for Governor. Note, though, that the choice was between McAuliffe and Cuccinelli, so it’s an illustration of Republican electoral suicide as well as Democratic common sense.
max
I have never understood why it was legal or constitutional to strip someone of their most basic right, the franchise, simply because they at one time in their life were a felon. It makes no sense, it flies in the face of the concept of rehabilitation, and it, because of the systemic racism in our criminal justice system, is racist in its application.
There is no affirmative right to vote in the Constitutional, Cole. The Constitutional Convention was staffed up with people who had a horror at the idea of Democracy and ‘mob rule’ including everyone’s new favorite, Hamilton. (What he believed in was a strong central government and an elite non-heriditary ruling class. As opposed to the planter class which believed in a weak central government that didn’t threaten the power of the hereditary country gentry. Neither group believed in letting some lower class ratbag (a mere common soldier!) like, say, John G Cole vote. Much less negroes.)
Anywho, they have expanded franchise, but every time they have they done it by preventing a particular form of denial of voting right: by religion or race or sex, in that rough order. Never has language been added that indicates EVERYONE can vote.
The end.
I believe McAuliffe is using an expansive version of the pardon power to effectively overturn the disqualification. And good on him. He has made it worth the vote I gave him.
max
[‘Incidentally, I have come around to the view that post-court supervision denial of rights should be out entirely, voting included. Anything else is indirect violation of the sixth. The right way to permanently deprive of their Constitutional rights is to put them in jail permanently.’]
Jeffro
@horatius: yikes… He has been an excellent governor of my state , especially considering the utterly rabid (read: far right GOP)Virginia legislature he has had to deal with …but if he runs for president, I would still be hoping for other options. He has almost as much baggage, both earned and unearned as HRC.
Bubblegum Tate
@Mike in NC:
Shameless nutpicking, but this is a wingnut blog comment I saved because it’s just so amazing (emphasis mine):
Yes, you read that right: She ardently believes that the way to “give the voice back to the people” is to ensure that fewer people have a voice.
WarMunchkin
@max: There’s no affirmative right to get married either, and IIRC marriage licenses are granted by the state, but if you were to say that convicted felons couldn’t apply for marriage licenses, I’m pretty sure that would not pass even the most lenient of idiot checks.
I’m genuinely confused as to why this is even a thing.
Immanentize
John wrote:
I so agree — but the whole problem is that there is no constitutional right to vote. There is a franchise (the right to vote) which may or may not be granted to begin with, but it cannot be denied because of age (first if 21 or older [14th A.] then if 18 or older [26th A.), if you are a citizen (14th A.), “sex” (19th A.,) or because of a (poll) tax (24th). And of course, equal protection (14th A.) which would include religion, sexual orientation, wealth, etc….
That seems like there would be a fundamental right to vote if there are so many references to restrictions, but no there is not. The franchise is granted, not an incidence of citizenship alone. One could think of dozens of (facially) non-discriminatory potentially valid restrictions. Most of the reasons one cannot restrict voting are speech-based, not right to vote based. I would love to see a simple constitutional right to vote amendment….
MattF
@Bubblegum Tate: It’s simple enough, “…give the voice back to the people” means giving the voice back to white people. And as for who took the voice away from white people, one can only repeat “Thanks, Obama.”
Elizabelle
My only hope is that this legislation will also apply to smilin’ Bob McDonnell, after he serves his full prison sentence and parole.
It’s only fair. And away to jail with him.
Immanentize
@max: Oops, sorry, Max — You got there before me. Love, Imm
Wapiti
@gvg: Regarding voting during parole, I think that there are plenty of times when someone commits a felony and there’s a very low chance of redicivism. In such a case, what does prison time do? Parole can be used there to give a longer sentence, including loss of voting rights.
I was in the military, and one thing I liked about UCMJ was the fact that crimes were paid for with time, or with fines tied to salary. A general and a private who do X can both be charged with 1/2 of one month’s pay, for example. Time is the one thing we all have a limited amount of; it is always a penalty.
Applejinx
@Hovercraft: Heh. Peggy knows somebody who has seen peeling paint on a house.
That’s some Six Degrees Of Kevin Bacon shit right there. OMG, uncomfortably close!
She might see a poor person if this goes on!
Immanentize
For those who wish to delve further into the sordid world of felon dis-enfranchisement, here is a short bibliography from the law head world:
http://www.sentencingproject.org/doc/publications/fd_litreview.pdf
? Martin
@Frank Wilhoit:
I think after 4 centuries, a dozen generations of proprietors, we can say that this disease has its own life. Other groups have seen their rights restored at a much faster rate, but we keep returning reliably to this same source. So I would invert your thesis: “Re-tilt the playing field and restore rights to some group, and we’ll immediately find safe harbor in again victimizing african-americans.”
Perhaps you are overlooking that no group had their rights so deeply devalued that they stand apart from all other populations that are discriminated against. We had no state sanctioning of the ownership of gay people, or muslims (as muslims), jews or atheists, or liberals, or even the poor. Because we codified that in law, and needed to defend it for centuries – the the extent of going to war with ourselves in an effort to absolve ourselves of that sin – it stands as a class apart.
I agree with the overall sentiment, and I believe it’s true for other groups, but our violations of african americans are so much deeper, to the extent that America achieved its greatness despite (and in some ways as a result of) that violation, that it really has no parallel.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Immanentize:
I stand with you on this. And I wish con law were easier to explain to people. Hell I wish it were easier to explain to lawyers too.
AnotherBruce
@Hovercraft: Classic Nooners, horribly regretting the loss of civility in our politics. Her last line was particularly moving;
So in her mind, Clinton is already a convicted criminal. I really feel sad for you Peggy.
raven
Looking more like an overdose.
maeve
@Keith G:
Don’t jump to conclusions .. A little google-fu will show you Hillary Clinton already supports restoring voting rights to convicted felons:
http://www.liberalamerica.org/2016/04/22/hillary-clinton-says-voting-rights-restored-felons-video/
I guess she’s not “lacking in imagination” or too much of a “coward”
D58826
Why is the Sanders campaign, esp. Mrs. Sanders, picking a fight with the Sandy Hook families? Jane Sanders is upset that Hillary is making a ‘political’ issue out of Sandy Hook. Man this is a battle that the Sanders can’t win. I understand he has been somewhat pro gun over the years but this makes no sense.
Frank Wilhoit
@? Martin: you seem to think that anybody knows any history, or cares about it.
What they do care about, obsessively and to the exclusion of all else, is harming other human beings, it doesn’t matter who, it doesn’t matter why.
Hovercraft
@Applejinx: I just love the distress in her description of multigenerational families living in the same house. Isn’t that a long lost feature of the time we want to go back to. When we had strong family values. Make a up your mind what kind of country do you want to go back to. Back in the day everyone knew everyone and we lived on top of each other. Then come the roaring eighties and Saint Reagan who discouraged big government and sent us all scrambling into our cars away from public transportation, and each other, now you want to know why we are not “real Americans ” anymore. Well I hate to break it to them but this is the end result of what you have wrought, we now have to work so long and in many cases so far that it’s hard to do the things you feel would promote family values and the kinds of traditions you claim to want. This is where your road has led, fewer people getting welfare, poisoned water, shitty schools, prisons full of people we don’t know what to do with when they get out. I mean don’t hire them cause they have criminal records, don’t allow them to get any benefits because of their record. So now we have reached a wonderful new milestone, we spend more on prisons than on education, hey but don’t worry about the shitty schools that the teachers unions fault. So now you have a nation full of ignorant morons who are ready to take their country back and make it great again. This the legacy of Ronald Reagan. Congratulations America.
I sort of got lost in the middle of that but hopefully you get my point whatever it was.
slag
@Frank Wilhoit: You’re actually talking about the laws of power dynamics, which are products of cognitive biases–prejudice and just world fallacy. In the case of America today, preferences toward whiteness, maleness, heteronormativeness, among others are the major prejudices through which we need to work. However, even if we magically work through those, we’re still stuck with just world fallacy, which is, indeed, a big elephant in the room.
AnotherBruce
@Hovercraft: You didn’t get lost, you were eloquent.
Hovercraft
@AnotherBruce: I was ranting, but thank you.
Major Major Major Major
@Hovercraft: I mean, if you really want I can point out typos ;) but I thought it was good
Elizabelle
@Hovercraft:
@AnotherBruce:
Re La Noonan: For f*ck’s sake: from her article, which you can obtain via link from Real Clear Politics (thus bypassing the Murdoch WSJ paywall):
Their “Moments” are willful obtuseness, are they not?
Has said 14-year old history buff totally slept through the Barack Obama administration? Because he actually encapsulates Noonan’s ideals even more than The Reagan. You’ll note she left out “intelligence” too, because one of those leaders came up a little short in that department.
And there’s something rather one-sided about that list of leaders, is there not? One of those is not like the others. Hmmm.
Hovercraft
@Major Major Major Major: Thanks but no thanks
FlipYrWhig
BUT TERRY MCAULIFFE IS ESTABLISHMENT CORPORATIST SELLOUT DLC GOOD FOR NOTHING
acallidryas
This line, “The action … will almost certainly provoke a backlash from Virginia Republicans,” in the article you quoted made me laugh since you can put in anything a Democrat does and it will be accurate. For any state or federal legislative body.
Hovercraft
@Elizabelle: It’s a cult like dedication to ideology, I think they actually believe the shit they spew. Obama has been a terrible president the economy is his fault . The deficit was caused by Obamacare. 9/11 was Clintons fault for not preventing it before Bush came in. You have to remember conservatism cannot fail it can only be failed. The party of personal responsibility is never responsible for anything. They are like high strung racehorses they must be handled with care or else their feelings get hurt. The Clintons took all the “W” s off the keyboards so the Bushies didn’t have to listen to their warnings. Obama was mean to us so we can’t work with him , Buba made me walk out the back of the plane so we have to impeach him. They are simply a bunch of spoiled brats who can never be wrong. So Vote Republican !!! If it works, WE DID IT, if it doesn’t THEY DID IT.
Paul in KY
@Elizabelle: The only reason for that ‘story’ is hagiography of Reagan. To try & make him an equal of JFK & FDR, etc.
Barbara
@Matt McIrvin: I don’t know when you were in Virginia, and I might be losing track, but by my count there are only four statewide elections in Virginia that have been won by Republicans in the last 12 years (including president). I stayed up until 3:00 am to see Jim Webb defeat George Allen in 2006 and effectively turn the Senate. You have no idea how much the country was spared because Allen’s well-laid plans for a presidential bid were completely knocked out. And of course, the Senate returned to Democratic control for Obama, when he was elected. So I can’t hate Webb no matter how much he infuriates me.
different-church-lady
@Mike in NC: They’re not against people voting; they’re against other people voting.
Barbara
@Paul in KY: To be honest, JFK and Reagan are on different plains from FDR and MLK, and from Obama too. Noonan is to WSJ what Maureen Dowd is to NYT — one dimensional “opinion” writers whose opinions are not worth much. Dowd, at least, is smart alecky and writes well about a few things. Noonan is a complete clown.
different-church-lady
@Hovercraft : PEGGY! RONNIE’S BODY IS ALL DEAD AND ROTTY AND FILLED WITH WORMS! HOW YOU LIKE THEM APPLES?
DLC +2
eemom
@Barbara:
Same here. As I recall it was sooooo close — which one was in the lead changing minute by minute as each precinct came in.
2009 was sad though, when Creigh Deeds lost to McDonnell. Deeds is a good man but I guess he didn’t campaign very well.
OTOH, watching Cooch loose to McAuliffe 2 years ago was AWESOME.
Barbara
So the Washington Post comments section (a place I hardly ever dare to venture) includes people who maintain that McAuliffe is just following the lead of his Clinton puppet masters. FWIW, I don’t think that’s true because he had already made earlier, less incremental, changes to make it easier for ex-felons to register to vote. Right now, they can vote but only if they go through an application and approval process, which is usually granted.
FlipYrWhig
@Elizabelle: I like how one of her examples of the opposite of posing and plasticity is Ronald Fucking Reagan, WHO WAS ACTUALLY A PERFORMER BY TRADE.
D58826
I was reading an article this morning about how some of the progressive movement have convinced themselves that Bernie is losing because the elections are rigged against him, the votes are stolen and if only the ‘people’ understood they would swarm to the progressives movement and overwhelming replace the corrupt elites. But alas…….
Kind of reminded me of the above quote.
Redshift
@eemom: Deeds is a good-hearted guy who has done some good things, but he ran for governor as a rural guy who wasn’t going to go along with what those suburban liberals wanted. He wasn’t a dick about it, but he was pretty explicit on some issues. That kind of strategy was necessary for Dems to get elected back when Mark Warner first did it, but it was electoral suicide in an era when no Republicans were going to vote Democratic and the vast majority of Democrats in the state are urban or suburban.
Major Major Major Major
@D58826: That’s one of the things that bugs me so much about Sanders’ version of socialism. It’s so… first-generation Marxist. If only the people ‘understood’ (were smarter/not misinformed etc.), they would rise up and support the Revolution; anybody smart who doesn’t support the Revolution is suspect/corrupt/’establishment’, etc. There’s no intersectionality or awareness of anything else.
Barbara
@Redshift: Deeds is from one of the least populous parts of the state, Bath County. What that election brought home to many people was that in order to get elected statewide in Virginia, you probably need to be from one of the population centers. Kaine is from Richmond. Warner is from Alexandria. McDonnell is from Fairfax and also has ties to Norfolk. McAuliffe’s ties are to Northern Virignia. Fairfax is 25% of the voting population of Virginia. On election night, you sit around for hours watching most of the rest of the state vote red and then wait for that two ton gorilla to drop its votes. But really, nearly every incorporated city in Virginia votes blue. So there are these little islands of blue in a sea of red, and then the “big blue” Kahuna that is No Va.
Redshift
@Major Major Major Major: But it’s also the cliche failure of liberals — I just need to explain things well enough that other people understand what I understand, and then of course they’ll agree with me.
Barbara
@D58826: I started reading a recently published history of Europe from 1914 through 1947, and it made the point (which I have seen made elsewhere) that true revolution occurs where there are literally no underlying institutions that could be leveraged to create change through less drastic means. In Europe, that’s why the only “true revolution” to affect a major nation in the 20th century occurred in Russia, and the prior French revolution offered many parallels. There were advocates for revolution elsewhere, including in the U.S., but it didn’t happen because it wasn’t necessary. I find casual references to revolution to be really grating.
Major Major Major Major
@Redshift: Yeah, I guess that’s the part I forgot to include… I meant to. I blame work
Matt McIrvin
@Immanentize: Also, the 13th and 14th amendments specifically have exceptions carved out from some of their guarantees for people convicted of crimes. The 15th doesn’t, but since it doesn’t grant a universal right to begin with, one could easily take the language in the preceding two amendments as suggesting that this is the sort of thing that could reasonably be an exception.
eemom
@Redshift:
@Barbara:
Good points both. Either way though, what it comes down to is that Democrats didn’t vote. Which there is NO excuse for, EVER, and makes me furious every time.
sukabi
@The Ancient Randonneur: so might wisconsin and michigan
Matt McIrvin
@Barbara: I lived there from the early 1970s until 1990. A lot of changes happened during that time!
Even then, there were often Democratic governors, and a conservative Democratic state legislature (some of that was probably the ghost of the old Solid South Democratic dominance persisting on the state level). But in that period the state was pretty solidly conservative Republican in national elections, also with a lot of white racism just under the surface.
Right at the end, Virginia elected a black Democratic governor. It was a remarkable moment–also memorable for the coded racism in the campaign and the way his vote margin underperformed his polling (sometimes the “Bradley Effect” is called the “Bradley-Wilder Effect”).
david10
@D58826: Because Bernie is never wrong.
david10
@Barbara: Well, about the smart alecky and writes well. Realized I hadn’t checked in on mo-do lately, so checked the titles of her most recent screeds. Not just a hack, but a boring hack. I imagine her sitting at home, squiffed to the gills, moaning “why, why doesn’t anybody pay attention to me anymore. sob.
Robert Sneddon
As I commented in Another Place, voting is not a right or a privilege, it is an exercise of citizenship. Denying felons or criminal the vote is denying them citizenship.
NobodySpecial
McCauliffe has done well here. Still doesn’t mean he wouldn’t sell us out to the plutocrats if he was back on a national level. I’m happy to leave him where he is, where his best impulses can shine and his worst ones can’t.
agorabum
yeah, but isn’t he part of the “establishment.” So who cares, both sides, corruption, not a dime’s worth of difference, I hope none of those people use the vote so we can destroy the system! then yadda yadda yadda, utopia.
Happy Friday.
J R in WV
@Bubblegum Tate:
Well, it is true that the fewer voters, the more important each vote cast becomes, which is probably the point there.
But that doesn’t make that belief any less evil and anti-democratic, does it?
Hunter
For Republicans, no question is ever settled if they don’t like the answer.
TriassicSands
Maybe Republicans could be convinced to give them 3/5 of a vote. For old times’ sake.