Bernie walking a fine line on sort of claiming the endorsement of the Pope https://t.co/XGeLMcUMog pic.twitter.com/CsVTmkFTZV
— Zeke Miller (@ZekeJMiller) April 15, 2016
Probably too recent for SNL to cover this tonight, and the nuns taught me it was wrong to provoke arguments on a Sunday, so here you are: Bernie did, indeed, meet with Pope Francis. The NYTimes reports:
… Immediately after his campaign announced that he would leave the United States for a “high-level meeting” at the Vatican, questions arose about the wisdom of the trip. The critical New York primary was just days away. One official of the Vatican’s Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences, which hosted the conference Mr. Sanders would attend, even suggested he had fished for the invitation.
Most critically, there seemed to be little chance that Mr. Sanders would meet the Vatican resident whose name he frequently invokes. Pope Francis, it turned out, would not be visiting the conference of the academy, an in-house think tank of the Vatican…
So early Saturday morning, Mr. Sanders stood in the marble foyer, which looks out onto a large cobblestone drive just inside the Vatican walls. Joining him were his wife, Mr. Sachs and his wife and Bishop Sánchez Sorondo, the senator’s de facto Vatican fixer.
The pope, speaking to reporters on his plane later in the day, described the meeting. “This morning when I was leaving, Senator Sanders was there,” he said, adding, “He knew I was leaving at that time, and he had the courtesy to greet me.”
No photos of the encounter were permitted, but Mr. Sachs said the senator was delighted all the same. He was beaming as he left the guesthouse, and celebrated the informal audience with a victory lap of sorts in St. Peter’s Basilica along with Mr. Sachs and the bishop, passing Bernini’s Baldacchino, a monumental bronze canopy over the papal altar, and Michelangelo’s Pietà.
Aware that his every statement is parsed for deeper meaning, Francis said he was simply being polite, not political.
“I shook his hand and nothing more,” he said. “If someone thinks that greeting someone means getting involved in politics,” he added, laughing, “I recommend that he find a psychiatrist!”…
@TinaMorphis @AlGiordano pic.twitter.com/6xdXw5kTYa
— SuzanneNMore (@SuzanneNMore) April 16, 2016
@AlGiordano @CaliforniaXile Between Kim Davis & Bernie both stalking, Pope must think we are fucking nutters
— Dane Venable (@iamthedane) April 16, 2016
Well, Americans kind of are. https://t.co/qAofkzmaLM
— AlGiordano (@AlGiordano) April 16, 2016
No idea whether it’s related, but Al Sharpton cancelled his scheduled appearance at a Sanders rally Saturday evening just a few hours in advance. Say what you will about the Rev. Sharpton, his political instincts (especially as related to NY) are universally recognized.
With five big primaries on the 26th, rumor is that @SenSanders may be headed next to Tibet to commune with the Dalai Lama.
— David Axelrod (@davidaxelrod) April 16, 2016
@AlGiordano @BexaRaven pic.twitter.com/Yqr7JG9wQg
— Gnu Bangs (@GopSux2) April 16, 2016
Baud
Remember, everyone, a T-Bogg unit is 500 comments.
Good night.
redshirt
COOL POPE ENDORSES BERNIE!!1!
Mnemosyne
Sorry, guys, but Hillary already has the only endorsement that’s going to matter this year.
Omnes Omnibus
AL, I voted for HRC in the WI primary. I ain’t asking you to stop the pro-Hill posts, but could you encourage the pro-Sanders FPers to post some shit?
redshirt
@Omnes Omnibus: Which FPers fit that bill? Hillary?
Tegdirb
@Omnes Omnibus: At this point are there any sane pro-Sanders folks left who would be able to post anything substantial considering his chances?
It’s like looking for sane Hillary fans around this time in ’08.
Mike J
@Omnes Omnibus:
I have to vote for her again tomorrow at the LD caucus,
Mnemosyne
@Omnes Omnibus:
It’s Balloon-Juice. We’re not going to stick to the topic anyway.
Omnes Omnibus
@redshirt: @Tegdirb: @efgoldman: It is my understanding the mistermix and Tim F. were feeling the Bern. I am may be wrong.
Dr.McCoy
@Omnes Omnibus: Now that’s, “Ironic”.
Mike J
From the gruniad’s Ben Jacobs: Kasich eats another pickle That’s a lot of attention for a pickle.
Omnes Omnibus
@Dr.McCoy: No. There has been some criticism of the blog because it is coming off as pro-Hillary. If there are people who take the other side, substantive posts about the reasoning are something I would like to see and discuss.
Mike J
How much more pro Bernie can you get than news from one of his rallies:
Bobby Thomson
@Omnes Omnibus:
And?
debbie
@Omnes Omnibus:
Discuss or berate? It’s largely the latter around here, on both sides.
The Sheriff Endorses Baud 2016
@Omnes Omnibus: I think its rather telling that they haven’t been motivated into posting some shit. And I would guess that’s not on AL or the other FP posters, than it is the state of the primary since at least Ohio.
different-church-lady
BERNIE: I’m gonna meet the Pope!
SANE PEOPLE: Uh… what’s the point in that right now?
HILL-PEOPLE: BERNIE AIN’T REALLY GONNA MEET THE POPE!
BERN-PEOPLE: HAH! HE MET THE POPE! EAT IT, HILL PEOPLE!
SANE PEOPLE: Uh… what was the point in that right now?
chopper
@Mnemosyne:
you know what I like? pancakes.
Adam L Silverman
@chopper: I posted a recipe for pancakes two weeks ago. You should be able to find it with the search tool.
Mike in NC
Bernie Sanders / Kim Davis 2016!
Omnes Omnibus
@Bobby Thomson: As I said above, it is my understanding that there are pro-Bernie FPers. Let’s hear from them. AL is getting bitched at for posting pro-HRC stuff.
chopper
I like how sanders stuck his logo on a picture of the pope and put it out there. sure the pope is happy about that.
“dude I shook your hand in the fuckin hallway. knock it off”
Omnes Omnibus
@debbie: Come the fuck on.
Mnemosyne
@chopper:
There’s a brunch place here that makes a bacon pancake with a fried egg in the middle of it. Very yum.
different-church-lady
Well, at any rate, best of luck to Bernie with his conversion.
redshirt
@chopper: Way too many carbs.
Icedfire
@Omnes Omnibus: Is there anyone other than yourself who would evidently welcome pro-Bernie comments, even with the sanity turned to 11?
Patricia Kayden
@Mnemosyne: Nice pics.
@Mike in NC: lol! Senator Sanders could do a lot worse.
Bobby Thomson
@Omnes Omnibus: I don’t think AL gives a shit that some people are whining about her posts. I know I wouldn’t. And I don’t see any value in posts propping up that mendacious stalker.
different-church-lady
@Patricia Kayden: So could Davis.
Mike J
@Adam L Silverman: Yeah, well you’re a search tool.
Adam L Silverman
@redshirt: Have you considered using Teff?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eragrostis_tef
Naturally gluten free, very high protein, very low sugar.
Bobby Thomson
@chopper: He’s doing a lot worse than that.
redshirt
@Icedfire: lol. Good question.
Actually, there’s a secret society of Berners but they’ve mostly been bullied into silence.
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
The King Arthur Flour Gluten-Free Baking Mix makes a nice pancake. I haven’t tried it for scones or biscuits yet, but there’s a recipe on the back.
I have a work friend with strange allergies, and her grass and oatmeal allergy means she had an allergic reaction to sorghum flour. She’s pretty bummed, because that’s common in gluten-free/wheat-free baking mixes, so she has to mix her own flour.
debbie
@Omnes Omnibus:
Seriously? Yesterday I made an observation and got put in someone’s pie filter. So much for substantial discussion.
Davebo
@Icedfire: I would. Hell I’ve made pro-Bernie comments.
Omnes Omnibus
@The Sheriff Endorses Baud 2016: I agree with you. I think it is telling that previously pro-Bernie FPers are not posting. Also, if I incorrectly named FPer’s positions, I apologize.
Adam L Silverman
@Mike J: Is that a compliment as in I’m good at doing research or am I tool that can be searched? I’m trying to work out with I’m supposed to be insulted or say thank you.
MazeDancer
There is some conflict with the Times report on Twitter.
Jeffrey Sachs replied in a Twitter inquiry about who asked Bernie to be standing there at 6 AM. Sachs said it was Sorondo. Which is not the same as the Times article saying a secretary from the Pope came in the middle of dinner, where Sachs and Sorondo were part of the table.
Sorondo being the one fits much more with the Pope clearly making sure everyone knows this was only a handshake. As Sachs and Sorondo have some how been the key players in why and how Bernie got to Rome.
We’ll see if Sorondo, like the nuncio in DC, finds himself no longer needed in his position
Adam L Silverman
@Mnemosyne: I use Teff instead of regular flour when I make pancakes. I also have a package of the Bob’s Redmill gluten free pancake mix, but I haven’t tried it yet. And I generally buy the Bob’s Redmill Teff.
Mike J
@Adam L Silverman: Sorry, the thread just wasn’t acrimonious enough yet. Gotta do something to stir it up.
Omnes Omnibus
@Icedfire: The pro-Bernie people.
@debbie: I am sorry that someone pied you. Happy now?
different-church-lady
Here’s the real question: did Bernie get an autograph?
gogol's wife
@Omnes Omnibus:
Why is it telling? You think the NKVD has made them stop?
Icedfire
@redshirt: I mean, I haven’t exactly taken pains to hide the fact that I’ve supported him throughout the primary. I have, however, done my best not to slander or attack Hillary despite there being multiple issues that I disagree with her about. It’s really not that hard to keep from going off the rails about that, though every time I’ve tried someone else immediately chimes in with something inflammatory that raises the torches and pitchforks.
Bigfooting, it’s not just for the front page anymore! ;-)
Adam L Silverman
@Mike J: Okay, no worries. I’ll step it up: I both resent and resemble that remark and I demand satisfaction!!!
(how’s that?)
redshirt
@debbie: Yeah, that was ridiculous. People shouldn’t use the pie filter for sincere arguments they slightly disagree with. It’s meant for the trolliest of the trolls. And there aren’t many around here anymore since BRINK TRUCKS VICTORY!!! was last disappeared.
debbie
@Omnes Omnibus:
Why would I be?
different-church-lady
@Mike J:
I find the Sammy Hagar VH to be so much better than the Diamond Dave VH, don’t you agree?
redshirt
@Adam L Silverman: Never heard of it before, thanks for the rec.
different-church-lady
@redshirt: Do you think anyone who says they pie someone actually pies them, or do they just say they pie them?
nellcote
Bernie/Trump vote trading site for your convenience
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
I trust King Arthur because they’ve been making good regular flour for years, so I figure they’re not going to push a bad gluten-free product out there. They have a reputation to protect. Bob’s Red Mill is a bit on the crunchy granola side to me, like the people who swear that Boca burgers taste just like real burgers. Not only do they not, Boca burgers are weird and slimy. I’d rather eat a Morningstar Farms burger because they try to make them taste good while being vegetarian.
redshirt
@different-church-lady: DA FUQ?!
bearcalypse
Meeting with the Head Pedo In Charge right after The Daily Show runs a segment on how the Cool Pope Church is fighting for the statute of limitations on child molestation.. Kinda leaves a bad taste in my mouth..
Yutsano
@chopper: @Adam L Silverman: Pancakes, you say?
Bobby Thomson
@different-church-lady: DougJ has nothing on you.
redshirt
@different-church-lady: The lazy or technically challenged ones.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I’m trying to avoid the whites (flour, rice and … sigh… potatoes) as part of my diet. This pancake discussion may make me weep. And no, buckwheat is not an option.
Icedfire
@Davebo: I miss having actual discussions and debates about it all. I can’t even deal with half my pro-Bernie Facebook friends these days – heaven forbid I should tell them that their anti-Hillary screeds have an unhealthy amount of frothiness.
Cacti
Bernie goes to Vatican, stalks Pope, throws panties at him.
Cause that’s just the sort of anti-establishment rebel that he is.
different-church-lady
@bearcalypse: BERNIE IS NOT A CHILD MOLESTER SO STOP SAYING THAT!!!
Amaranthine RBG
Is this Ms. Laurie’s second or third post today taking a swipe at Sanders?
——————————–
Setting aside the petty partisan bickering surrounding this meeting, you really have to hand it to the Pope for his genteel and humble description:
The pope, speaking to reporters on his plane later in the day, described the meeting.
nellcote
Omnes Omnibus
@gogol’s wife: It is telling to me that the FPers who previously posted pro-Bernie positions have been silent. It suggests that they are not as enthused about about supporting him. I may be wrong. They may be busy irl; they may may have determined that this space is Bernie-unfriendly, or there may be some other reason. All I did was suggest to AK that she encourage the pro-Bernie FPers to post.
different-church-lady
@Bobby Thomson: Wanna have some fun? Go to any chatboard on any topic and say something like, “OT: I think the best way to brew coffee is X…” and watch the fur fly!
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Bobby Thomson:
Mendacious stalker sounds creepy. There’s no point in FPing Sander anything because there’s no path to the nomination. There’s no there, there – just I know you are but what am I. CLAP HARDER. Birdie!
SarahT
Sorry, bernie – the American Pope supports Hillary:
http://m.nydailynews.com/news/national/kerry-washington-shonda-rhimes-endorse-hillary-clinton-article-1.2560665
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@bearcalypse:
I see what you did there.
bearcalypse
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Nearly everything is a flour these days. I didn’t even know chickpea flour was a thing until I had farinata.. it’s also not white – it’s yellowish. You can also make regular pancakes with it,
Mnemosyne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Is it for blood sugar control? I’d be careful about doing it solely for weight loss — IMO, making temporary diet changes rather than ones you can live with permanently is a recipe for yo-yo dieting.
Gin & Tonic
@different-church-lady: Redshirt remains convinced that s/he was pied by Corner Stone.
Adam L Silverman
@redshirt: http://www.bobsredmill.com/teff-flour.html
you’ll get a chewier, denser product, but I quite like it.
ruemara
I think the bigger story is how fucking authentic Hilz is as a dominoes player. She made lots of noise, did some smack talk and a table dance. I must admit, color me impressed. Starting to feel a bit of a like happening. Speaking as a dominoes person myself. It’s just so afro/latino/caribe. That being said, meh on this. It’s almost too sad, naive, offensively calculating and internationally embarrassing to pay attention to. Like we should look away to preserve the man some dignity while he gathers his shorts.
On to better subjects, harissa spice plus lemon juice in the juices of your tri-tip, as well as 2 teaspoons of brown sugar and cornstarch, make a great sauce. You’re welcome.
TaMara (HFG)
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: If whole wheat is an option, I’ve made these pancakes with all whole wheat flour and flax and they are fluffy – want them fluffier, separate the egg and beat the whites and fold them in last.
I like them because they have a great nutty flavor.
Mnemosyne
@Gin & Tonic:
Ironically, CS refused to pie me, so I pied him instead to maintain everyone else’s sanity.
Adam L Silverman
@Mnemosyne: Other than agreeing with you about boca burgers, I don’t have enough experience to say either way. I’ve used Bob’s Teff and a few of his other products like his Scottish pin head oats, but just now trying the gluten free.
gwangung
@Omnes Omnibus: I’d be happier with stronger pro-Sanders statements. I think folks are a little harder on weak Sanders arguments (and there’ve been a few…)…weak arguments among strong ones will attract more attention. I think it’s easier and more fun to turn the snark on weaker arguments.
Elie
When I was recovering from my knee replacement in January, my hubby made me banana pancakes. It was comforting and I loved it. Since then, the appetite for those has gone away, but I sure did treasure my stack at the time….
benw
@Mnemosyne: Boca is gross. Have you tried Quorn? That’s my go-to option for veggie meat substitutes. Their faux-chicken nuggets are amazing!
Icedfire
@Omnes Omnibus: Personal anecdote here, it has gotten more difficult to take up the banner and argue for Bernie’s candidacy now that he’s repeatedly flubbed details about policy positions. Just espousing the ideas isn’t enough, especially when you’re competing against someone who masters details as well as Hillary does. I have and will continue to advocate for the “big ideas” of his that I support, but right now it’s pretty much impossible to do so outside of the primary context. It’s not exactly encouraging to hear “hey, that makes sense, why doesn’t Bernie say that?”
redshirt
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: I recall my sincere concern in 2008 over Hillary’s increasingly vitriolic attacks and the looming questions of Florida and Michigan votes, which is crazy the Dems just tossed two major states from the process. I thought that created enough uncertainty for Clinton to push harder and hope for some kind of breakthrough.
There’s nothing like that this time. If Hillary wins the next states as predicted this primary season is over. Sanders should be gracious and retire at the due time then support Clinton as the nominee.
But will he? In 2008 Hillary was a trooper for Obama. Does anyone really think Sanders will be for Clinton?
Adam L Silverman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: teff, trust me on this one.
Mike J
@ruemara: Domino motherfuckers!
Cacti
My favorite part of operation Panderfex Maximus is how Bernie, working class man of the people, flew himself and 10 family members to Rome on a chartered 767…
Just like everyone else does.
Gin & Tonic
Anyway, went out to Chatham hoping to see the seals that have reportedly taken up residence on Monomoy. Walked down a ways and didn’t see any of them. As it was completely overcast, 43 degrees with a steady wind from the northeast at about 40-50 mph it wasn’t the perfect beach day. It was, literally, difficult to stand up straight.
ruemara
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Ok if you like pancakes, you can make them with bananas & coconut flour. Or oat flours. If you’re avoiding carbs/starches, you can enjoy them by smelling them as your friends eat while you weep silently into an egg white omelette with spinach, no cheese.
Luthe
@redshirt: I use the pie filter for people whose sincere arguments I have heard 28938218231 times in every previous Clinton-Sanders thread. I am sure they are nice, serious, well-meaning people, but after 1000th verse same as the first, I feel justified in turning their sincerity into delicious pie.
redshirt
@benw: Quorn is amazing. I love every product of theirs, and it’s got amazing nutrition stats.
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
I’ve been thinking of trying the Scottish oats to see if they hold up better in the crockpot than the McCann’s oats did.
Feudalism Now!
Listen the Pope and Bernie have many of the same positions. They also have an equal number of policy proposals, which is fine for the Holy See, but not so good for a Presidential candidate.
Ultimately, this was time away from the campaign to meet the Pope. I think Bernie knows the long shot has dwindled to a Snowcone’s chance in Hades. I think we will see Bernie tailoring his speeches back to being more lofty, inspirational and less my opponent is a corrupt stooge of Goldman Sachs. Why else go to get a handshake from the Pope the weekend before a big primary?
Davebo
@Cacti: Any pictures of the plane they chartered?
Omnes Omnibus
@gwangung: That is actually part of my point. Bitching at AL for making pro-Hill points is BS when there are people who are able to make pro-Bern posts. What happens is the comments is a different thing.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Mnemosyne: it’s for everything, trying to adopt a healthier lifestyle as I creep toward 50. I’m not religious about it, I had a tortilla today! I had fallen into some bad habits over the last couple years
@bearcalypse: @TaMara (HFG): thanks for the tips. Do those flours– lentil, chickpea,– work better for savory recipes? I’m thinking of pizza crusts.
I often think of pizza…
SarahT
@Cacti: And used campaign donations to do so.
Adam L Silverman
@Mnemosyne: That’s the problem with yo-yo diets. I can never eat just one.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/a0/a3/7b/a0a37b7caa180eab0ba315442b8a827a.jpg
gwangung
@Icedfire: Yeah those flubs (or non statements) about the details are what turned me away. Someone with the right ideas but a shaky way to implement them can do more damage than someone whose ideas are bit as far forward but can be implemented well.
I’ve said Sanders has the right ideas but isn’t the right man. If he had a second in command who DID have command ofvthe detaiks, he’d be a lot more formidable.
Gin & Tonic
@Mnemosyne: I make the Bob’s Scottish oats in a Zojirushi rice cooker, and they come out perfect every single time.
Davebo
@Cacti: Never mind. I see it was a Delta plane. I would have thought he’d charter an exec 767.
Mnemosyne
@benw:
I haven’t tried Quorn, but this whole FODMAPs tummy issue means that I’ve had to cut out most soy and other beans, so I may not get the chance.
For grilling, the Dr. Praeger veggie burgers are really good. They don’t taste anything like a beef burger, but they’re good as themselves.
Adam L Silverman
@Mnemosyne: I don’t use a crockpot, just a regular one. But I like them. I’ve even used them to make a whole oat oatmeal cookie. Talk about chewy! And crunchy.
Mike J
@Adam L Silverman: Since you’re here, did I miss a Bundy update? Bupdate? You know, about how they refused to enter a plea and just submitted a copy of the constitution?
redshirt
@Mnemosyne: Agreed that Boca is not so good. But disagree on Morningstar. Their products are filled with crap.
Quorn is the light.
Cacti
@Davebo:
Yes indeed.
Elie
@ruemara:
THIS – LOL:
redshirt
@Mnemosyne: Quorn is fungus based so should be safe.
Omnes Omnibus
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: FWIW, I did a half-century (50 mile ride) on my 50th. Then I collapsed.
chopper
@different-church-lady:
that’s not acrimony, that’s just retarded.
redshirt
@Elie: Cheese doesn’t have carbs.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@redshirt:
I have zero faith in him.
Amaranthine RBG
@Omnes Omnibus: I’ve noted several times the number of anti-Bernie front page posts that have appeared.
Personally, I don’t really care whether there are any FP pro-Bernie posts or not.
I make those posts just because every thread that touches on the Democratic race seems to have one (or more) posters who kvetch at “how negative” Bernie is, or why it’s time to “band together” or some other such BS.
Davis X. Machina
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: There’s a chickpea flour thingy called socca that’s all over the Rivieras. Baked in a heated cast-iron pan. Makes a good pizza base. Indian groceries have chickpea flour at a tremendous price — it’s called ‘gram’ or ‘besan’.
Adam L Silverman
@Mike J: You didn’t. I’ve been a wee bit busy working on a project. A lot of technical reading and one of the two documents was exceedingly dense, over written (as in they really wrote way more than needed), and at the same time I was battling a sinus infection that was hiding behind my allergies. I’ll have the project largely put to bed by tomorrow and completely by Monday and both the allergies are under control and the infection is being treated. So most likely sometime next week.
redshirt
@Cacti: Such a snappy article. I love the tone.
TaMara (HFG)
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Are you avoiding flour and gluten, or just white stuff? Because I’m working on an amazing bread recipe that is great for pizza. I want to try it with a golden whole wheat flour – it’s a heritage grain. It is buttery and whole grain and lighter than a typical whole wheat.
I can fast track my testing if you want me to… ;-)
Mnemosyne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Ah, okay. So more in the clean eating direction where you stay away from processed foods.
You can actually bake some really good fries with a russet potato cut into sticks, a little olive oil, and some salt. I got more than enough fries for 2 people out of one medium-sized potato. It works really well with sweet potatoes, too.
Icedfire
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Sadly, I’m expecting that he’ll return to the “HIllary on her worst day will be x amount better than Trump/Cruz” line, but that’s not setting a terribly high bar in the end. I hope he surprises me with more positive advocacy. I’ll be using my voice to do so, for whatever good it does.
BillinGlendaleCA
@different-church-lady:
Are you deaf?
Cacti
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
Same here.
I’m hoping to be pleasantly surprised, but his relationship with the Dem party is one of convenience.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Feudalism Now!:
It diminished Bernie by making him look bumbling, and made the Pope look gracious. Bernie is this cycle’s John McCain, and Hillary is Obama.
Mnemosyne
@redshirt:
Mushrooms are bad FODMAPs (oglios, I think). I wasn’t sad — I’ve never liked mushrooms.
seaboogie
@Mnemosyne:
So Mnem…I listened to the soundtrack last night, and it was awesome, so I sent a copy to my US expat Pa in Canadia. A year ago I got him the Hamilton bio (he loves historical bios) and tucked a fresh tenner inside to use as a bookmark. And on the currency front, it seems like your buddy Lin-Manual has thrown a monkey wrench in the works WRT the plan to put a woman on the ten dollar bill, due to the overwhelming popularity of the musical. Sooooo….it seems that Jack Lew is all but ready to announce that we can say goodbye to Andrew Jackson on the twenty, because THAT’S going to be a woman. How about that kind of awesome in the unintended consequences department!
Omnes Omnibus
@BillinGlendaleCA: No, but I got reading glasses today. I hate time.
TaMara (HFG)
@Adam L Silverman: That sounds like a cookie recipe you need to post
Gex
@Omnes Omnibus: And it speaks to their claim that the FPers are all Hillary all the time. Some are for Hillary. Not all are. If the Bernfeelers are upset that they are only seeing pro-Hillary posts, they should be asking the questions you are asking instead of bitching about the people who are posting in favor of their candidate.
Mike J
@seaboogie: No need to put a woman on the ten. Keep Hamilton and dump Andy Jackson from the twenty.
Adam L Silverman
@TaMara (HFG): The list is getting a wee bit long.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Icedfire:
We need all on board to keep Republicans away from the levers of power. We all need to push against the evil Republicans, all the time, because they’re all such relentless racist medieval assholes who are a threat to everybody. Even the Berniebros, because Flint is coming to them too. No one who believes in progress can stay home and indulge their fantasies about mythical Bernie and mythical Hillary. Way too much is at stake for everybody.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mike J: Fucking A.
@Gex: That’s my point. Thank you.
Elie
@redshirt:
Right — its the lust for pancakes drooling with butter and syrup as you look at your egg whites with cheese and spinach.. Yes, I LOVE cheese — and also the crackers that seem to be REQUIRED with the cheese, NO?
Mnemosyne
@seaboogie:
Even before the musical hit, there were people saying that it was ridiculous to remove Hamilton, the first Treasury Secretary, and leave Jackson, the guy who hated federal banks and killed the precursor to the Federal Reserve as soon as he had a chance. So I’m definitely glad they’re rethinking that. I suspect Jackson was mostly put on there as a sop to segregationists anyway.
ETA: Also, as I alluded to in the previous thread, the Hamilton musical is a much bigger hit than the Jackson musical was (though it did reasonably well).
BillinGlendaleCA
@Adam L Silverman: I find yo-yo’s to be a bit on the crunchy side.
redshirt
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Absolutely. It’s interesting that in 2008 this general argument could be applied to Obama-Clinton in reverse. After Iowa was riding high but we all know one state does not win you the primary. Clinton could arguably be called the safer candidate since the other candidate was a black guy named Barack Hussein Obama, in what was a gimme election.
But as an Obot back then, I didn’t feel as if Obama was launching a revolution or starting a class war; he was running for President in a smart, pragmatic fashion, and it would beat the Republican candidate after the 8 years of disaster that was Bush. He wasn’t risky even though it seems like he should have been.
I’ll say no such thing for Bernie. He’s a freaking DISASTER waiting to happen if he somehow were to get the nomination. Hillary may have high personal negatives, poll lovers, but she’ll also get 54% of the vote. At least. And she’ll bring out actual Dems to vote for Senate and House seats.
Icedfire
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: No argument here. 4 or 8 years of incrementalism is nothing compared to 25 or 30 years of a recidivist Supreme Court.
Gin & Tonic
@Elie: How can you eat cheese without drinking wine? It’s unnatural.
different-church-lady
@Davebo:
What? And run the risk of getting business executive cooties?
PhoenixRising
@ruemara: Oh, dominoes. That was sweet.
As to pro-Bernie posts, arguments, etc: Where are they? Seriously, could someone bring on something in favor of Sanders’ candidacy? Lots of comments about how devilish HRC is, from the won’t-take-yes-for-an-answer crowd, but not so much pro-Sanders.
Guess that’s coming from the top, but still…
ruemara
@Elie: I say this as a weeper
redshirt
@Gin & Tonic: Wine has a lot of carbs.
Gin & Tonic
@BillinGlendaleCA: Have you seen what the kids these days can do with them?
Omnes Omnibus
@PhoenixRising:
Quoi?
benw
@Mnemosyne: actually Quorn is micro-fungi, so not really mushrooms. FWIW Quorn makes this list of low FODMAP foods. Anyways, I’m not really a Quorn salesperson or anything, but it is IMO the best substitute out there. Also, you are crazeballs for not liking mushrooms!
PhoenixRising
@BillinGlendaleCA: IME deaf music fans don’t care much about lead-guitar-heavy music period, but maybe there are deaf people who are deaf in low ranges who have strong opinions in the Sammy vs Dave Van Halen dispute.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Omnes Omnibus: Reading glasses, the real welcome to the 50’s.
bearcalypse
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: If you have a cast iron pizza pan you can definitely make a chickpea flour base (it has no gluten, don’t knead it, treat it like a pancake) and par-bake it and then put your toppings on and broil it to get a pizza fix without the high carbs.
And yeah, as someone else mentioned in the comments, you can use chickpea flour for an Indian pancake too.. it’s called a besan chilla – pretty awesome with pulled lamb and mint chutney wrapped in it like a taco.
Elie
@Gin & Tonic:
YOU are SO Right!!!!! And that is what leads to SIN. Cheese, crackers AND WINE!!!! Then DINNER, then a just a little dessert, right? :-) —- Yummy
BillinGlendaleCA
@Gin & Tonic: Some of us can’t drink, I have salami with my cheese.
Gin & Tonic
@redshirt: That was kind of the point of the above comment, thanks.
But really, wine has been part of a normal human diet for about 8,000 years. Worrying about the carb content of the occasional glass of wine is as sensible as the person who finishes his/her dinner with a slice of Death by Chocolate and then asks for a sugar substitute in their coffee.
redshirt
@PhoenixRising: The only thing to argue against Diamond Dave except for his extreme assholishness is that he was and is a cover artist and seemingly proud of it. Many arguments during the first Van Halen album because Dave wanted to do covers while the rest of the band (aka the actual Van Halens) wanted to do originals. He was vetoed (for the most part) and we have the great Van Halen we all love today.
Note Diamond Dave’s first solo album. All covers.
different-church-lady
@Mnemosyne:
No, I bet it was some engraver saying, “My god… that hair! I gotta do that hair!”
Omnes Omnibus
@BillinGlendaleCA: Shut up. I am wallowing in the music of my youth. The damned glasses fuck me up lf anything is more that two feet away.
Mike J
@Elie: That’s why I stopped going to church, They always frowned at me when I brought cheese to go along with communion,
Gin & Tonic
@BillinGlendaleCA: That works too. But now some vegan will whine about the meat, and somebody else about the sodium in salumi. You can’t fucking win.
redshirt
@Gin & Tonic: True. But if you want to get cut, you’ve got to cut the carbs.TM
PhoenixRising
@Omnes Omnibus: When your candidate has reduced himself to a string of character attacks but literally can’t name an instance in which his opponent’s impurity has led to a specific bad result, I should stop hoping for the positive effects of an issues-based primary.
(Why, she’s taking donations from lobbyists for the fossil fuel industry?!?! My stars & garters! Those people expect *something* for their money…and it can’t be that they expect a POTUS who will effectively regulate the industry they lobby for, thus keeping them employed…plus air their grandchildren can breathe…no, they expect something that is beneficial for their clients who only continue to pay them until the regulatory picture reflects their wishes…Lobbying, how does it work??)
Elie
@redshirt:
Si — it DOES… but its just perfect with CHEESE and CRACKERS ( once you have sinned, you just go for it, emptying the cheese bin — that is why I can’t buy it and have it in the house and why I don’t buy crackers that often).
Raise your hands now: How many people here have had French bread smeared with good butter and blue cheese? I’m here to say, that this has got to be one of the simplest and most decadent way to an easy 5 lbs that I know. I never have any of those ingredients in the house at the same time….
BillinGlendaleCA
@Omnes Omnibus: That’s why they’re called “reading glasses”. You’ll adjust, we all do.
Elie
@Mike J:
LOL!!!
Omnes Omnibus
@PhoenixRising: That didn’t help. His? Who are you opposing?
Mike J
@Omnes Omnibus: And the Obama admin looks as if it agrees with us:
Gin & Tonic
@redshirt: Wevs.
redshirt
@Gin & Tonic: Do you even lift, bro?
Mnemosyne
@different-church-lady:
Well, I’m sure it didn’t hurt.
Omnes Omnibus
@PhoenixRising: Um, are you saying I am a Bernista?
BillinGlendaleCA
@PhoenixRising: Or as Big Daddy* used to say. “If you can’t eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women, take their money and then vote against them you’ve got no business being up here.”
*Big Daddy was Jessie Unruh, former CA State Treasurer and Speaker of the State Assembly.
Ruckus
@Omnes Omnibus:
I have to put mine up on my head at work as I walk from place to place otherwise when I get there I have to turn around and walk back to get them. Of course about 25% of the time I used to do that I’d forget what I went back to get, walk back to the start point to stir the memory and start the cycle all over again. When I first started doing the glasses on the head thing I’d forget I put them up there and do a fruitless search for them. Till I’d bend over to look at something and they’d fall off.
redshirt
@Omnes Omnibus: That’s what I took from that post.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Omnes Omnibus: No, a barista; are you wearing your reading glasses?
Mnemosyne
@Ruckus:
That’s why librarians wear them on a chain around their necks.
Adam L Silverman
@redshirt: I do and I’ve been out of the gym for two weeks between the allergies and the sinus infection. And while I’m aching to get back, I’m not looking forward to tomorrow’s workout.
redshirt
@Adam L Silverman: Go easy on yourself for the first day.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@redshirt:
Obama set out with a vision from his first exposure at the 2004 convention. He’s thought through everything, from his first announcement in Springfield in a shout out to Lincoln, and in every historical occasion, in careful detail since. He’s carried the country through a ditch and honored, and mourned all its citizens. I’ve watched his mosque speech a couple of times recently and it’s mind blowingly revelatory.
He got elected president with the name of Barack Hussein Obama, after George Bush. He took an amazing risk just to think it possible, and I climbed on board in that huge wave election. I had total faith in him, and now I have zero faith in Bernie to help us all try to push against the Republicans. He’s not a team player.
Omnes Omnibus
@redshirt: As I said, read my first post on this thread.
chopper
@Mike J:
if god didn’t want us eating in church he’d have made gluttony a sin.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Ruckus: I lost my primary reading glasses this evening, time for another trip to the 99¢ store.
Jerzy Russian
@BillinGlendaleCA: 49 here, ordered my reading glasses last week.
redshirt
@Omnes Omnibus: Oh I know. I find it funny PhoenixRising did not.
Gin & Tonic
@redshirt: I do, as a matter of fact. And I like to eat as well. If I die tonight, at least they’ll find real meat and real pasta and real wine during the autopsy and not, you know, steamed fucking kale or some other shit like that. Nobody ever said “you know, I wish this dish had more kale in it.”
PhoenixRising
@Omnes Omnibus: No…You asked what I meant by requesting some pro-Sanders anything, vs anti-Clinton. I expanded on it.
One of us is too tired to read/write. Your call which. I’m out if we don’t get a Bundy Bunch update though.
Mnemosyne
I’m annoyed because my local niece’s mother decided that she can’t come to the Huntington with me tomorrow to take a tour of the Japanese Teahouse. Feh.
Ruckus
@BillinGlendaleCA:
Found some real good ones at Ralphs. Not $.99, but I like them enough to have a pair at home and a pair at work. When I worked by myself I had pairs all around the shop. Never had to look for them or worry about breaking them as that only happens when you are down to your last pair.
chopper
@Gin & Tonic:
I’m gonna make sure to serve you a plate of poisoned food where the only antidote is kale.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Mnemosyne: I’ll go, if you’re paying. I’ve been wanting to photograph the Chinese Garden there.
redshirt
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: You just typed words from my brain. Amazing!
ruemara
@redshirt: ugh. natural bodybuilding event in 4 months. I’m co-dieting with my friend who’s competing. And cotraining. I spend 12hrs minimum at the gym. They all know my name.
@Gin & Tonic: Kale chips. Game, set, match. (leave me my delusions)
redshirt
@Gin & Tonic: Sounds like a Real Frenchman to me.
Wine?!
BillinGlendaleCA
@Ruckus: My favorites from the 99¢ store are bifocal sunglasses with the reading portion at the bottom.
Mike J
@efgoldman: “KAOS, a Delaware Corporation.”
redshirt
@ruemara: Wow. Got any tips or secrets?
BillinGlendaleCA
@redshirt:
Sorry this is Balloon Juice, we only have whine here.
Ruckus
@Gin & Tonic:
Once had a doc tell me to eat much better and I’d live longer. How much longer? About 6 weeks. And that’s all I gain? But the quality of life is better. So if I eat everything I hate I’ll live another 6 weeks and be under joyed about food for 40-50 yrs? Doesn’t seem like a great trade off. He just shrugged.
That’s not to say I eat horribly but kale tastes like I suspect ass does.
ETA By the way I’m 5’11” and at the time weighted upper 150s. It took me another 25 yrs to get to 170.
Joel
@different-church-lady: Who are the bands that got better with a replacement lead singer? I can think of two: Pink Floyd and Pearl Jam.
Davebo
@Omnes Omnibus: If you’re like me and never wore glasses I’d suggest getting them a half dozen at a time!
BillinGlendaleCA
@Ruckus: Could be worse, on my hike with the nursing student(for another 2 months), she was pushing prunes. “Dad, have some prunes, they’re good for you”.
Gin & Tonic
@Ruckus:
And at the end, too! Even if it gives you an extra year, it gives you that year at the end, when you probably don’t care that much. Now if it gave me another year of being, say, 25, I could get behind that.
redshirt
@efgoldman: Amazingly I am within 25 miles of an Ocean State Job Lot. I’ve noted they have a lot of grains and seeds and such for sale but I didn’t dare buy any. How did it end up at Ocean State Job Lot anyways? This is the question I ask myself about everything in the store, of course.
Mnemosyne
@BillinGlendaleCA:
G has homework to do, so he can’t go. Could you be at the entrance plaza by about 1:15 pm tomorrow? I can get you in with my pass.
chopper
@Joel:
faith no more. I mean I like the original lineup but fucking Mike Patton, the guy’s amazing.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Mnemosyne: Sure, I’ve not been there since 1999.
(I really didn’t think you’d take it seriously,)
Gin & Tonic
@efgoldman: I once passed a Job Lot truck on the NYS Northway and thought, WTF? But their empire extends as far as Schenectady.
Adam L Silverman
@PhoenixRising: I just put something up, but its not Bundys. It is insanely fun though!
Davebo
@Joel: One could make an argument for AC/DC.
Gin & Tonic
@efgoldman: I thought they were in the water because it was warmer than being on land. It was goddamn Siberia on the outer Cape today.
Ruckus
@Gin & Tonic:
I think I threw that in there somewhere but he wasn’t all that amused. Was a good doc and he mentored me about getting into med school and what it was like to actually be a doc. I ended up not doing that but it was grand that he was trying to help.
redshirt
@Joel: Who was Pearl Jam’s replacement?
Ruckus
@Mnemosyne:
And I was thinking of going to the Huntington tomorrow but I have a couple of projects that I have to get done tomorrow. Maybe if I get up in the morning instead of sleeping in………
What are the chances of that?
Joel
@redshirt: Eddie Vedder replaced Andrew Wood, deceased lead singer of Mother Love Bone.
bmoak
@Joel:
Better after new lead singer? Iron Maiden. Journey.
Yutsano
@Jerzy Russian: 43. Last time around I got progressive glasses. Which promptly got lost when I moved.
Cacti
@Joel:
Pearl Jam wasn’t exactly the same band as Mother Love Bone.
3 out of 5 original Pearl Jam members had nothing to do with MLB.
Mnemosyne
@BillinGlendaleCA:
I hate to waste a ticket because they were hard to get (I got in from the waiting list). They built a whole new entrance plaza last year, so it’s definitely changed since 1999. You can email me at Mnemosyne dot Muse at Gmail.
@Ruckus:
I can only get one additional person in with my pass, but if you guys want to make it a mini-meetup, I’m game. The easiest place to meet is where the exhibition posters are at the very front of the entrance plaza (it’s also the back wall of the new coffeehouse). Even if you don’t have a full pass, the new entrance plaza with the theater and cafeteria are publicly accessible and really gorgeous.
burnspbesq
@bearcalypse:
Just once, I’d like to hear a rational, law-based argument in favor of doing away with the statute of limitation on sex-related crimes that makes a lick of sense. Got one?
redshirt
@efgoldman: Here’s your Highball, Mr. efgoldman.
Mike J
@burnspbesq: I can give a rational argument for at least lengthening it in some cases. In assaults against children, often the child is not believed, silenced by their parents or other authority figures, or sometimes is not capable of understanding the wrong that has been done to them. I think there’s a solid case for not starting the clock until the victim reaches 18. Yes, there are still problems with it, but I think in these cases the good may outweigh the bad.
seaboogie
@Omnes Omnibus: Hey Omnes, FWIW I find reading glasses on a fella deeply sexy, and I’m pretty sure I’m not the only gal who does. Implies that you’ve read a thing or two and have acheived a level of maturity and intelligence. Other alluring thing to me is a man in a long-sleeved button-down shirt with the sleeves turned up – because forearms and classic men’s clothing….sigh…..
Jerzy Russian
@Yutsano: I need a different prescription for distance vision, and was offered some bifocals. Since I have not worn glasses before, I thought I would try out the reading ones first. I have a hard time reading fine print (like the dates on quarters), and I figure I will be doing that more than staring at things a long way away.
redshirt
@burnspbesq: Are there statute of limitation rules on murder?
Mnemosyne
@seaboogie:
Have you seen Daveed Diggs when he puts on a suit and glasses? Or this picture? Because yeah.
ETA: Though I feel compelled to say that I already have a fella in my house who looks adorkable in reading glasses.
seaboogie
@efgoldman:
In Quebec – maple syrup producer extraordinaire – they refer to non-maple syrup as “sirop de poteau”, which rhymes in French…seer-oh de poe-toe. The translation is “telephone pole syrup”.
Ruckus
@Mnemosyne:
Not looking for a free pass, just a reason to get off my dead butt and go. I scored a free ticket to a banquet I was planning to go to next week and just could not get them to take my money. So I’ve got a couple of bucks just waiting to be spent. But those things I have to have done need to be finished before Sunday night. Have to see how I feel in the morning and if I get done. If I do I’ll see you there at 1:15. BTW the last time I went was about 1980 so I imagine it has changed somewhat.
seaboogie
@Mnemosyne: I can do without the flags, but mos def the glasses and suit work for me – he’s a honey for sure (if I were 20 years younger). One of the awesomely sexy things about glasses is that gesture when you take them off to kiss. :::Fans self::: or was that supposed to be a bunch of asterisks? I’m never quite sure about the gestural punctuation.
seaboogie
@efgoldman: Heh!
Mnemosyne
@seaboogie:
He’s 35, so I’d only need to be 10 years younger. He’s been doing a fair amount of modeling because he can look amazing in clothes that 90 percent of the male population would look ridiculous in. He wore a purple plaid suit with a bow tie to the White House and … damn!
Ruckus
@burnspbesq:
I agree with Mike J’s approach. Ending the statute I can see is problematic but making it start at 18 does sound like a valid position, something like 6-8 yrs from then. Doesn’t stop good parents and allows kids without that benefit to possibly have some justice, without making it last forever. Wouldn’t do anything in the case of Hastert but in many cases it might make a difference and get a molester out of circulation and possibly help.
redshirt
@efgoldman: You don’t sound very sinful, actually. Especially considering your drug Kingpin background.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Mnemosyne: Email sent. Delivery failed. Doh! Didn’t add .com, DOH!
BillinGlendaleCA
@Ruckus: Look forward to seeing, I’ll be the short guy with a couple of Sammy cameras.
Ruckus
@BillinGlendaleCA:
Once met you are pretty hard to miss.
I’m the old white guy with a gray beard, that makes up for nothing on the top,
I will try to make it but no guarantees. If I’m not there when you guys are ready to go in, go without me. I’ll either find you or am still getting stuff done.
Mnemosyne
@BillinGlendaleCA:
I think it just came through. I had to re-do my password, so it may have been temporarily inactive or something.
Anya
I don’t get all the attention this Pope and Bernie thing is getting. It’s a big much ado about nothing. To be honest, both sides of this argument are annoying me.
Also, too, I am finding some people I used to like quite dissapointing. I used to like Al Giordano very much but his tweets annoy the crap out of me. What would taunting folks accomplish? And if you’re publicly tweeting about shit & people dissagree with you, threatening them or blocking them says more about you than it says about them. And I am saying this as someone who is not a Bernie supporter and who got tired of his supporters antics long time ago.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Mnemosyne: No, I copied and pasted, and forgot to put the “.com” on. DOH!
ETA: I got your reply.
seaboogie
@Anya:
Is why I dont use the twitters, because it seems like a combination of addiction to personal devices and ADD, plus game show “hit the buzzer” speed that often results in ill-considered assholishness. The actual wit there seems to find its way to other fora, so I get the better stuff in a more round-about way.
BillinGlendaleCA
@seaboogie: I never got the point of the twitters.
Anya
@seaboogie: @BillinGlendaleCA: I mainly use twitter to discuss my favorite t.v. shows and sometimes comment on current affairs. I just hate the clique/herd mentality. It also brings out the inner mean girl/douchebag in a lot of people.
LauraPDX
@Mnemosyne: You’re making me feel very nostalgic. I grew up in SM; my best friend lived right across from the Huntington on Oxford Road. I crawled over every inch of that place growing up, and toured the library and art gallery more times than I can count. There was no Chinese Garden then. Would love to see it all once again. And it was all free then! No coffee shops, etc. though – the only thing for sale was a packet of postcards. You just walked in and headed off to whatever you wanted to see.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Anya:
Al has been paying attention to politics for so long, that the know it all Berniebros who all woke up to politics last fall (after they realized, too late, they wanted to vote for Bernie in the primary) and who are trying to school him on how unfair the rules of politics are, have gotten on his last nerve. Things will change after Tuesday.
Anne Laurie
@Omnes Omnibus: The only other front-pagers I’ve ever met in person are Tom Levenson and Hillary — and I don’t know either one well enough to ask for favors, like taking time to post here.
I could do a half-dozen posts picking on Sanders every day, just for my own amusement, but I try to restrain my natural red-headed Celt instincts. This whole Vatican business just tickles the heck out of me, because I grew up among the NYC Catholics Bernie wants to impress, and He.Is.So.Wrong. Could *you* resist, if Senator Sanders showed up in Madison wearing a cheesewheel headpiece, earnestly offering lutefisk tapas & Pabst to endear himself to the locals?
Anne Laurie
@Mike J:
That does seem like the simplest solution, doesn’t it?
One commentor here, though, raised the problem that America is the default “global” currency — they said the Benjamin hundred and the Jackson twenty were the most widely recognized exchange paper in the world. So replacing Jackson will lead to a rash of counterfeiting, as people down the chain from the U.S. Mint learn how to identify the “real” new bills.
BillinGlendaleCA
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: A bunch of Bernie supporters were throwing dollar bills at Hillary’s motorcade today as she went to Clooney’s place for a fundraiser.
Ruckus
@Anne Laurie:
We may be the “default” currency but other countries change their bills regularly without all the issues, what makes us so different?
Anne Laurie
@Anya:
Heh, and I started reading Giordano’s tweet because he taunts folks so well!
From his tweets, we grew up in the same era & social class and the same borough (different ends of the Bronx, though, which is *extremely* significant) so it’s probably a socialization thing.
Ruckus
@Anne Laurie:
Taunts delivered properly are a thing of beauty. Delivered poorly they are just wrong.
Anne Laurie
@Ruckus:
The argument is that more people in Ghanian street markets and Laotian factories expect to be able to recognize a true Jackson twenty; if we start swapping pictures they’ll have to learn what the new ones look like & counterfeiters will take advantage. Heck, there’s a regular trickle of news stories right here about sales clerks accepting very badly forged bills, even though they handle them all day. Can’t imagine the argument is significant enough that we can’t / shouldn’t dump AndyJ, but it’s one more thing to think about.
opiejeanne
@Gin & Tonic: Will we say on our death bed: I wish I’d eaten more kale?
We were working in the garden today and I noticed two kale “volunteers” In the bed where I grew corn last year. It’s been two years since I grew it, and it was 25 feet away from where this was, and I don’t remember letting them go to seed two years ago. Strange.
polyorchnid octopunch
@efgoldman: Not here.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@Anne Laurie: I laugh every time Chris Hayes pretends to be part of the proletariat cuz he grew up in The Bronx, when in truth he grew up in affluent Riverdale. Today, he continues the class struggle against “corporate Democratic whores” from his penthouse in Park Slope and his corner office in Rockefeller Plaza.
RedDirtGirl
@bearcalypse: Loving the flour tips, thanks.
RedDirtGirl
I knew the night owls/early birds were around somewhere!
TriassicSands
@efgoldman:
I don’t know why anyone would be upset that Sanders is running for president in the Democratic primaries/caucuses. He’s called himself a Democratic Socialist and caucused and voted with Democrats consistently. In this country there are only two parties to choose from if you want to run for president and have any chance of winning. I’m sure Sanders could get the “Democratic Socialist’s” nomination for president, but what would be the point? His policies are generally consistent with past and present Democrats. So, it is natural for him to run as a Democrat. Whether anyone wants to support him is another question.
There are lots of Republicans who claim that Trump isn’t really a Republican — they feel the need to pretend that of the two parties the one Trump’s noxious proclamations best fit into isn’t the GOP. He’s racist. Check. He’s a misogynist. Check. He’s bellicose. Check. He’s intellectually lazy. Check. He’s an idiot. Check. He’s a Republican. Check.
The fact that he might not privatize Social Security on January 21, 2017 (were he elected) is hardly disqualifying, though in the ever narrowing world of right wing Republicanism (i.e., all that’s left of the GOP) the true believers want to believe it is. The fact that he’s changed positions on a number of issues is also not disqualifying — and wouldn’t be in either party.
different-church-lady
@Anne Laurie:
You don’t say.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@TriassicSands: What people dislike is he has rarely supported Democrats during his 45 year career, more often helping out the Republicans. The kook once ran against Pat Leahy as an independent. You can’t get more liberal than Leahy, yet in pursuit of self aggrandizement he only helped out the wingnuts (video).
The guy is so nuts he joined Trump in 2011 and called for the ouster of the Black President. Now what do you think would have happened if the genius achieved his dream of deposing Obama?
Gindy51
@gwangung: This is what killed my support for him. No concrete answers to any policy questions, too little substance on how to do the things he wants to do given the state of American politics, not some pie in the sky fairy tale he thinks is American politics. If he wins in 2016 there is no way in hell he can do what he said he wants to do and his supporters will abandon him (like the firebaggers did Obama in 2010) in 2018 while the GOP takes everything back and we lose the White House in 2020. President Ryan anyone?
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@Gindy51: also he could only serve one term.
If elected he would turn 76 years old during his first year in office. Would America give a 2nd term to someone who would be 80 thur 83 during a second term in office – doubtful.
Ella in New Mexico
All I want to say is that for the past two weeks the CW here at BJ from Hilary supporters has been “Bernie not only didn’t get invited by the Pope, He’s an idiot who thinks he did and hahahaha what a fool why is he going there on this Oh-so-important weekend before the NY primary and anyway all he’s doing is giving a speech at a conference what a fake he is God we hate Bernie bros and mostly Bernie”.
Then he goes and actually meets the Pope.
I’m so sorry for all the crow you people have to eat right now. Oh wait, no I’m not……..
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Ella in New Mexico:
The pope, gracious as he is, did not “meet” with Bumblefuck Bernie, who did not get invited anywhere by the pope. They passed in a hallway, and the pope said that anyone who gives it a political interpretation should see a psychiatrist. But, that’s the kind of meaningless bullshit Sanders supporters eat up with a spoon. Sad!
J R in WV
@Yutsano:
I make corn-meal pancakes; I have found that counterintuitively, they are lighter and crunchier than flour pancakes usually are.
1.5 cups cornmeal
0.5 cup flour
.25 cup melted butter or other cooking oil (but butter is best tasting)
1-2 teaspoons baking powder
1 or 2 eggs depending on how big they are
milk sufficient to make a batter
Heat a skillet over medium high flame, add a pat of butter, use a gravy ladle to dip batter from the bottom of the bowl, as the cornmeal will settle out. flip when brown.
I like to use maple syrup, but blackberry jam is good too, and yogurt goes with well too. I don’t put butter on the pancakes as they’re already loaded.
J R in WV
@redshirt:
Florida and Michigan didn’t follow pre-set Democratic primary rules, and because they broke the rules, their delegates were not seated by the credentials committee, according to the rules made by the rules committee. In 2008 that helped Obama out some, but I think he won anyway IIRC.
This year, Hillary Clinton has gotten enough pledged delegates already that, given that the rest of the big primaries are proportional, Bernie Sanders can’t win enough delegates by just winning the primary elections, he has to win so big in order to get most or all of the available delegates that it isn’t practically possible for him to win at this point. You don’t win a Democratic primary by 80% running against someone as popular as Ms. Clinton is now.
Even if he wins by 60-40 running the rest of the primaries (and he can’t do that well – he never has) he would still lose so that Hillary Clinton wins on the first ballot. So Senator Sanders needs very much to stop dishing on Secretary Clinton at this point, it just makes him look bad. The math doesn’t work for Senator Sanders from here on out. It’s not statistics or anything, it’s just proportional multiplication and addition.
I contributed to Hillary’s campaign yesterday when I realized the primaries were over and she had won… obviously I think this is a good thing. It is a shame that Senator Sanders’ boosters don’t seem to have made the same realization.
Denali
@Memosyne,
I would go to the Huntington with you but there is flyover space involved.
Betty Cracker
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
Joined Trump? What a steaming load of horseshit. Sanders made noises about putting up a primary opponent against PBO because he (Sanders) was angry about lack of pony production. It was stupid and childish given the realities in Congress, IMO. But Sanders never joined Trump’s explicitly racist birther nuttery.
charon
@Ella in New Mexico:
Some meeting!
http://www.dailynewsbin.com/opinion/pope-confirms-he-did-not-have-a-meeting-with-bernie-sanders-handshake-and-nothing-more/24497/
charon
You can watch the Pope commenting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkdRTIPqo7Q&feature=share
.
marduk
@Ella in New Mexico: Don’t bother, the reality distortion field can’t be penetrated. The talking points are even more right when they’re wrong.
randy khan
@marduk:
Whether or not he actually met with the Pope ( as opposed to “met the Pope,” which seems like what happened), I still don’t understand why he took a couple of days out of campaigning in a state he absolutely has to win – and win by a lot – to go to Vatican City. The upside just doesn’t seem to be significant enough to make up for the loss of campaign time. That’s what puzzles me, more as a matter of strategy and tactics than anything else.
Betty Cracker
@randy khan: I think Sanders has been ill-served by his campaign advisers. It was pretty clear from his early comments on the Vatican trip that he thought he’d been invited to participate in a major conference by the Pope himself and accepted on that basis. Once it came out that this wasn’t the case, he couldn’t back out without losing face. That’s my theory, anyway.
Frankensteinbeck
@Omnes Omnibus:
I would be delighted by substantive pro-Sanders posts, and I may have been the most enthusiastic early Hillary supporter here. The pro-Sanders posts we have had did not meet the ‘substantive’ mark, to put it mildly. If we could get some that did? Yes, please, I’d love that.
@Mike J:
Yeah, the Bundies are hilarious. I’d love an update, too!
@Ella in New Mexico:
Eating crow? The point of the OP is that it’s incredibly sad that to get the ‘meeting’ Sanders was supposedly invited to, he had to lie in wait along a route the Pope would take, and the Pope is a nice guy who shook his hand. Rather than eating crow, we’re either face-palming at this dishonest desperation, or outright laughing at him – depending on personal taste. Sorry.
Andy
Boomers want to rule forever-this pretty much sums it up.
“Saratoga Springs, N.Y.: In 1972, I was young, naive and idealistic. I was also an elected official (a county legislator at age 23). I ran for and was elected a delegate for George McGovern, for the Democratic National Convention in Miami, from my New York congressional district.
Fast forward 44 years, and we have hordes of idealistic young people supporting a self-described ideologically committed democratic socialist from Vermont for President. He is vying against an establishment Democratic candidate whose negatives are very high. Could he win the nomination? Yes. That is a possibility. Could he win the general election? That is far less probable.
At this stage of my life, practicality matters more to me than ideological purity. I do not oppose the potential of a Bernie Sanders, and indeed the reformer in me is drawn to his candidacy, but the adult in me is drawn toward Hillary Clinton, and it is the adult in me who will be casting a vote.”
So we all have to wait till the boomers are no longer an issue. I think we will ALL be dead by then.
Ella in New Mexico
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: you’re sad. A pathetic, smug, self-important hack that beats the same, ugly dead horse. You bring nothing to this blog but participation in an echo chamber of insults and snark and personal attacks. And you’re also wrong in more than half the issues you blockade about.
Like I said, since you and your buds basically laughed and mocked and said Sanders was basically not even even GOING to the Vatican, I’m loving how you’re rationalizing down the fact that once again, YOURE JUST WRONG.
There it is, for all the world to see: Sanders participating in an international dialogue on how to help the least of us. And your candidate scooping up $350,000 a plate donations from the rich and famous. Talk about optics.
Ella in New Mexico
@Frankensteinbeck: HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAhhah!!!!!!!
Ella in New Mexico
@charon: better than nothing, which was how you all were so sure it would go.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Ella in New Mexico:
We said he was going to the Vatican, but not as he affirmed on The View, that he had been invited to meet the Pope. You’re delusional, you’re projecting your delusional shit all over the place, and like the pope said, you all need to see a psychiatrist. I don’t know what it is about that bitter old scold that has made berniebots cling to him for their life, but it’s like watching a zombie movie. There’s no there, there. Wake up.
By the way, I’m curious how Sanders paid for this. Aren’t you?
Uncle Ebeneezer
@BillinGlendaleCA: Just a head’s up: there’s a plant sale going on at the Huntington this weekend. We got a rose tree last year with purple and white roses. They have lots of awesome stuff at surprisingly decent prices, but it can get pretty crowded (at least over in the sale area.)
Ella in New Mexico
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Everyone who doesn’t ditto you is delusional. Right.
Your opinion is about as important to me as Limbaugh’s at this point because you basically are a Dem version of him. I could care less you’re rooting for my side, you’re just as much of a demagogue. And no, I do not give two fucks how Bernie paid for his trip to the Vatican.
But I’m sure people like you will try to rustle up some kind of faux scandal or misstep or insult to Hilary he supposedly has done with this trip. Clutch the now grimy pearls and all.
When Hilary has a win, I just sit back and enjoy the fact that I am all too happy for her to do so, because she is pretty awesome. Just because I’m pulling for Bernie doesn’t mean I hate her or want to see her destroyed. But you, and your buds here are frigging insanely rabid. I think it’s because you’re no where near as confident as you blather on about.
So you literally spend all your time here, lurking, attacking any one who says anything positive about Sanders. Like a fucking mindless school of sharks.
Too fricking bad over half the party is sick of insider shills and hacks like you that they’re fleeing….
TriassicSands
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
Apparently, it is possible to be more liberal than Pat Leahy. VoteView, whose methodolgy impressed Nate Silver at 538, ranked Sanders as the 3rd most liberal senator in the 113th Congress, while Leahy is number 18; Progressive Punch has Sanders at number 10 and Leahy at number 22 based on “crucial” progressive votes. Again according to Progressive Punch on all votes for each senator’s career, Sanders comes in at number 17, while Leahy is at 24.
With a voting record like that Sanders doesn’t really seem to be an enemy of the Democrats or liberals. I don’t see how you can justify claiming that Sanders has rarely helped Democrats.If he’s voting correctly on the most crucial progressive issues then he’s supporting Democrats — or at least Democrats worthy of the name.
Uncle Cosmo
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: For some strange reason, Bernie’s positioning in the very early morning athwart the Pope’s path to the limo to the airport reminds me of an old, old joke:
Let those who have ears to hear, hear…
Doug R
@Bob In Portland: Women’s rights are human rights.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Ella in New Mexico: Too fricking bad over half the party is sick of insider shills and hacks like you that they’re fleeing….
Bernie math!
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Uncle Cosmo:
Bernie the pope stalker. The meltdown on twitter by the Bernfeelers trying to Bernsplain’ that a courtesy handshake was a “meeting”, coupled with that ridiculous new picture equating Sanders to the pope has just become sad. Sad!
nutella
The one thing I really admire Sanders for is not attending the AIPAC pledge-fealty-to-Israel event which has been considered ‘required’ for all candidates. His chasing down the pope has pretty much ruined that admiration.
And I expect Bishop Sorondo, who set up both the conference invitation and the ‘meeting’ with the pope by lurking in a hallway he would be walking through, will soon have a new job scrubbing the Vatican toilets.
Bob In Portland
This looks like a year for the realignment of American politics, but I’m not sure how it will all work out.
Most Sanders supporters know that economically and as a war proponent, H. Clinton is probably no better than any of the Republicans. While Trump has to toss a bone or two to the underclass he won’t function in the WH without caving to the permaclass, which probably won’t be all that hard as long as he’s still allowed to strut his stuff and puff up his ego.
So the most obvious outcome for the election will be a continuation of the Bush-Clinton years. Income will continue to separate. Bad things will continue to happen to the field hands and while, Downton Abbey-like, there will be some cuts to the house staff, there’ll be enough to support discussions here where the professional class can still get a quorum to celebrate H. Clinton’s reign.
Meanwhile, the war for the worldwide control over energy will continue. More people will die from US bombs. There will be enough senseless terror generated in the world (by our good allies, the House of Saud) for our consumption in order to wage another war here or there. Despite having her picture taken with John Lewis the thumb of the police will continue to come down on our minorities because, well, that’s how our system works. And wider the gap the more repression is needed.
However, the professional class will cling to their TED talks, speaking tours by Bono or some other icon of neoliberal social justice, while the world sinks deeper. Will this be the year that the lightbulb goes on and they recognize that you can’t be beholden to the 1 % and change the course of the ship? No. The consensus of the villagers here will be maintained because to do otherwise would be to acknowledge the semi-privileged status they hold.
Eventually there will be a reckoning, if not a revolution to save the country then a reckoning to defend the flag.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Even for you, that’s a moronic statement. Unfortunately, a lot of young people are listening to self-righteous morons like you, Sarandon and Michael Moore, people who learned nothing from 2000 because they can’t see past their own self-righteous egos. I hope you don’t manage to repeat your lethal pattern of destruction.
Bob In Portland
@Doug R: Are you saying that there are women’s rights in Saudi Arabia? Or are you saying that it’s okay for H. Clinton to collect gifts around the world in solidarity with our corporate outreach program but because of the Church’s long history that attending a conference on world inequality isn’t pure enough for Sanders to attend?
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@Bob In Portland: Dumbest comment on the Internet today.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Feudalism Now!:
As of this morning’s e-mail from Weaver, that’s not happening yet. It doesn’t look like Weaver is leaving himself much room to change his approach, either.
The double-speak is strong with this one…
So is George supporting Bernie now? Well, no…
The Independent:
IOW, Weaver cherry picked a quote which in context says exactly the opposite of what Weaver (and Bernie) want us to believe.
Imagine that.
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
(Who thinks the way to combat Citizens United is through immediate, searchable, disclosures of political spending. No more hiding behind shell corporations, trusts, and the like. If Joe Smith giving $200 to a campaign has to put his information on a FEC web site, then Joe Billionaire giving $10M to put up a political ad should have to do the same thing.)
Ruckus
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
Are you saying that the wealthy are no better than the common man, that they can not just purchase whatever or whomever they want?
That’s treasonous, suggesting that we are all equal! Where ever did you get such a preposterous idea?
Bob In Portland
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Okay, what wars during her lifetime has H. Clinton opposed? She was for the Vietnam War. In 1968 she even wrote a speech for Mel Laird to deliver on the floor of the House of Representatives justifying the bombing of Hanoi. That year she attended both the Republican and Democratic conventions, which I think is a tell for her political career. Then she was kind of against the war in Vietnam. Was she for or against Kissinger’s overthrow of Allende? She wasn’t in the public spotlight back then, but from her crowing of her endorsement by Henry, she seemed proud of her acknowledgement by him. I understand that she was in support of Reagan’s war against Nicaragua, but I’m willing to see proof otherwise. Perhaps she was merely triangulating, but I suspect it was partly to create alternative legends for a moment on the public stage such as this. She was on the ground witnessing the dismantling of Yugoslavia. She seemed to have no qualms over starving Iraqi women and children, and like her mentor Zbigniew Brzezinski was all in for making Afghanistan safe for Unocal pipelines. She has been part of the rollback strategy in eastern Europe and the grand plans to eventually replace Russia’s energy business in Europe with western corporate oil. She hasn’t seen a regime change she hasn’t liked, probably because she was in on them all.
Let me tell you what’s moronic: Your candidate is into the richest people in the world for three billion and you are still thinking that she will act independently of her debt to the wealthy when she reaches the White House. So are you lying to yourself to feel all fuzzy? Are you lying to yourself because deep down you know your fiscal health relies on your corporate owners? A little honesty would be a relief from the holier than thou pronouncements of the villagers here. You are either acting out of monetary, or more pathetically, ego self-interests. Thanks to Debbie Wasserman Schultz, there will always be enough Republicans and DINOs in Congress to continue the status quo.
Then you will blame Sanders supporters like you blamed Nader supporters for not supporting your magical candidate.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
That number grows exponentially as Sander’s poll numbers weaken and his rhetoric becomes more venomous, and more helpful to Republicans. Ridiculous.
You, of course, are as insignificant as you are ridiculous. Some your more prominent and self-indulgent fellow travelers may be doing real damage to the country and the world.
charon
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
An 18 hour flight (round trip.) $17,000 per hour to charter a 767 from Delta, thus over $300,000 just for the airplane. Here are some pictures:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3542360/Bernie-Sanders-takes-private-flight-Rome-speak-Vatican-conference-burning-gallons-fuel-just-hours-attacking-Hillary-Clinton-climate-change.html
Bob In Portland
@Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap: @Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap: And you’re glue.
You know, if you go back a decade there were actually political discussions at BJ instead of sophomoric name-calling. What do you think happened here, Tilda? Any clue?
Bob In Portland
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
Stated in a post by supporters of the candidate who moves comfortably among Saudi nobility in an attack against the candidate who goes to Rome to discuss world income inequality.
Heh heh heh. And you can’t even see yourselves.
Bob In Portland
@charon: If only he’d spoken to the Deutsche Bank before he flew.
Bob In Portland
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: If Sanders and the Pope meet in a hallway, then they met. How long did H. Clinton stay in the Saudi palace with the King?
I realize that’s the game you need to play, downplay anything Sanders says or does while puffing up H. Clinton and downplaying all those ties to the wealthy of the world. You go right ahead.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Ruckus: I guess Weaver can’t make up his mind about Millionaire™ George Clooney. Is he a good guy for providing a quote that Weaver liked, or is he destroying America by being a Millionaire and Billionaire™ that is Buying Our Elections&trade:? George Clooney: the Transparent Aluminum of Contemporary American Politics.
Cheers,
Scott.
Bob In Portland
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
The Clinton Foundation has two billion in it, almost exclusively from the wealthy of the world, many of these donations close enough to political and business actions to be called quid pro quo, though in such lofty numbers I think the eventuality of returned favors aren’t in doubt, certainly by the paymasters.
Up through September of last year there were something like 133 million in speaking fees from the wealthiest of the world. By that date H. Clinton had received over 600 million in campaign donations, again, mostly from the wealthiest of the wealthy.
There was the 26 million laundered through the DNC and state orgs to go to Hillary PACs. There is the Clinton Global Initiative, whose books are closed to the public. What was their cut from Colombia or that uranium mine in Central Asia is mere speculation.
Granted, she can’t just withdraw the money out of the ATM. But it’s there, and whether through the power of philanthropy (something always come back to the giver besides good feelings), or the power of business associations, or the power of rich friends, money is a means to power, and with the help of her special friends she will get to sit on the throne.
By the way, the term “fellow travelers” has a rather ignominious history. Do you mean like “FDR and his fellow travelers”, or the imaginary communists that Joe McCarthy was hunting? You may pretend to be liberal but your vocabulary is giving you away.
patroclus
@Bob In Portland: I’m all in favor of substantive discussions of issues on BJ! And, I’m impressed by Bernie’s visit to the Vatican (just like I was when Obama went to Berlin in 2008). And the degeneration into insults has been regrettable. Let’s just take one example: a few weeks ago, one particular poster started name-calling Secretary Clinton for supposedly supporting the 2009 coup in Honduras with no evidence whatsoever and the link he provided directly contradicted him stating that “it’s impossible to accuse Clinton of foreknowledge of the coup.” And, when confronted with criticism for this absurd argument, he doubled down and name-called with impunity and continued with the criticism as if it weren’t directly contradicted by the facts. I was flabbergasted!
As for the “supported every war” criticism, Clinton opposed the “we are all Georgians now” war, and, as Secretary of State, negotiated the withdrawal of troops from Iraq and the drawdown in Afghanistan. She opposed the coup in Thailand, she opposed the pre-Mandela South African wars in Namibia, Lesotho and Mozambique, she (regretfully) opposed intervention in Rwanda and she was quite instrumental as SOS in reaching a settlement in Sri Lanka and in establishing a democratic process in Myanmar. Her record is mixed – she has opposed some wars and supported others. Virtually any sane analysis of her record would acknowledge that. And yet, some posters merely argue – in contravention of fact – that she has supported every war since she was born. A more nuanced criticism, with less hyperbole, would be far more effective, than an inaccurate criticism that just goes over the top on everything.
Ken
So meeting with the Pope is just like meeting Van Halen. You just need to find a roadie who’ll sneak you backstage.
patroclus
@Bob In Portland: I doubt if private citizens can make “arms deals” with rulers of foreign countries. But my guess for what she discussed with the King would probably have been women’s rights, an issue for which she is well known. She might also have discussed the Yemeni war, which she both opposes and opposes U.S. (troops) intervention in. Why so much inaccurate hyperbole? Are you ever going to dial it down? You’d be far more persuasive if you stuck to facts.
Bob In Portland
@patroclus: When Henry Kissinger was in the catbird seat do you think he was aware of the Allende coup?
When Hillary Clinton was Secretary of State do you think she was aware of the coup in Honduras? Did she even call for a no-fly zone?
patroclus, if you think that the military coup in Honduras went forward without Clinton’s knowledge of it, then I’m afraid you are really very naive. There are plenty of articles about H. Clinton and what happened in Honduras. There are more stories about H. Clinton and her praise of the rat currently running Colombia. Just as your fellow villagers here at Balloon Juice have lost the ability to connect the flow of money with your favorite political candidate, you presume that someone in so high a position of power, dealing specifically in global politcs, could overlook a coup by a military owned lock, stock and barrel by our MIC. I bet you fell for the thing about Dubya ignoring that warning about bin Laden about to strike too.
Bob In Portland
@patroclus: @patroclus: Well, say it. H. Clinton, in her role as Secretary of State, had no inkling that a military coup was bubbling in Honduras. Can you say it?
Bob In Portland
@patroclus: So when Bill Clinton was cutting that deal for his buddy for that uranium mine in one of those “stans”, he was acting as a private citizen?
Remember H. Clinton’s endorsement from that gay organization which turned out having corporate lobbyists on their board of directors? Do you think that the guy from Grumman voted to endorse Hillary for her recent conversion to equal rights for gays or because of some of those contracts she helped steer when Secretary of State?
patroclus
@Bob In Portland: Indeed, the evidence reflects that Kissinger was well aware of both the planning and the U.S. involvement with the Allende coup – there is some doubt that he was aware of the actual tank movement towards the Palace, but that doesn’t obviate his involvement. In addition, the U.S. was involved in the Lumumba assasination, the coup against Diem, the attempted murder(s) of Castro, the Mossadegh coup, the Arbenz coup, the Rios Montt coup, the intervention in Guatemala, the Dominican Republic and several others. It was not, however, involved in multiple dozen other coups in the 20th century and the dozen or so coups that have taken place in the 21st century. And not, despite what you keep saying (without facts), in Honduras in 2009. On that, you are completely wrong and dangerously naive. I am not surprised that you don’t have facts on your side given your status as a Villager – you were probably on Bush’s side throughout the Iraq war and probably ignored the warning that OBL was about to strike. Factless criticism like yours dangerously undermines the left – I wish you’d read all the Wiki articles I referred you to when you last made these idiotic fact-free criticisms.
Tilda Swinton's Bald Cap
@Bob In Portland: Ha ha. I guess you don’t have very good reading comprehension Bobby. I didn’t call you the dumbest motherfucker on the Internet, I said your comment was the dumbest comment on the Internet.
patroclus
@Bob In Portland: You’re going to have to provide a link for this latest fact-free criticism. Private citizens don’t usually do arms deals – if you think they do, prove it.
patroclus
@Bob In Portland: More fact-free criticism without links is not very persuasive. Try calming down, and actually responding with something resembling coherent discussion. This name-calling and fact-free hyberbole is not making you look good at all.
patroclus
@Tilda Swinton’s Bald Cap: He doesn’t seem to actually read comments, nor does he seem willing to engage in rational discussion of actual issues, despite posturing as though he does. His fact-free allegations without links or any kind of actual evidentiary support undermines the left’s valid arguments. I bet he’s really a Villager that is deliberately trying to undermine the left with idiotic comment after idiotic comment. I honestly thought that he had abandoned the ridiculous criticism that Clinton was responsible for the Honduran 2009 coup, but evidently, he hasn’t.
John S.
A noun, a verb, Bernie Sanders. And another delightfully formulaic post from Anne Laurie.
Bob In Portland
@patroclus: Ah, no, I was always against the Iraq war. I think I was posting here long enough that you could actually go back and prove yourself wrong if you care to. I asked if you thought that the Honduran coup happened without the SOS’s knowledge. A simple question. Really simple. If she knew and let it happen then she was involved, and since the US is at least purported to be for defending democracy letting a military coup happen would seem to be, uh, at least anti-democratic.
There is always the possibility that all the other sectors of the State Department, military and intelligence services didn’t know either, which would be a sad commentary on the abilities of our surveillance programs, although this chestnut is generally trotted out when things “happen”, like 9/11; or they knew but didn’t tell H. Clinton, which would paint her and Obama as essentially out of the loop of our foreign policy and not terribly concerned about it. The one or the other seems to have occurred multiple times over the past sixty years. H. Clinton doesn’t have the benefit of pleading Alzheimer’s like Reagan did, nor does Obama.
But since the current regime continues to operate without any US intervention against it it can be presumed that the Obama Administration wasn’t too terribly put out by the coup, even if he/her/they weren’t informed about it beforehand. Your choice: H. Clinton was either ignorant, incurious or in on it.
As I recall, it takes years for all the facts of these CIA coups to sort out and become known. How long did it take until the Tonkin Gulf hoax was exposed? There are large pockets of this country that still don’t know. Or how about the JFK assassination? Has it ever struck you as suspicious that they are still withholding evidence on that case? Well, must be some national security thing, eh? The same willful ignorance that excuses you from thinking about a coup happening here in the US under your nose is the same force that allows you to see Hillary Clinton without all the strings attached. Congratulations. You’ve managed to fool yourself.
Bob In Portland
@John S.: Look, if your candidate sat worshipfully at the feet of the Chief Headchopper in Riyadh, you have to look for something to attack Sanders for for going to a conference in Rome about wealth inequality. You make fun of Sanders supporters throwing dollar bills at her passing limo when you know her connections to obscene wealth are staggeringly real. Anne Laurie doesn’t pretend to be deep thinker. She is an H. Clinton supporter and has to come up with something for which she can wave her pompoms.
patroclus
@Bob In Portland: There isn’t a current “regime” in Honduras – the current President (Juan Orlando Hernandez) was democratically elected on November 24, 2013 in an election certified by outside observers as fair over three other candidates, including his principal opponent Xiamora Castro. For you to assert that it is a “regime” is inaccurate and shows that you don’t know much about the country. That election followed the internationally-negotiated settlement of the 2009-2010 disputes which was accepted by all parties. The U.S. supported both the settlement and participated in the observer group in all subsequent elections. Obama doesn’t oppose the democratic government nor does he advocate “intervention” to overturn it; nor did he support “intervention” when the Hondurans themselves rose up against the Zelaya regime (which preceded this one by two Presidents). The election was praised by observers as being relatively fraud-free and both major parties had a legitimate chance; another “first” for Honduras.
Your analysis – that the U.S. either had foreknowledge of the Honduran military’s coup or ignorance is too simple of an analysis, yet again demonstrating your relative ignorance of Honduras. Everyone knew about the unconstitutional actions by the prior President (Manuel Zelaya); especially when he blatantly ignored edicts from the Honduran Supreme Court. Zelaya wanted to hold a referendum on changes to the Honduran assembly and the Court ruled against him. Notwithstanding that, he decided to go ahead with his plans and three of the major parties, including the Court system, feared that it was a prelude to a Zelaya-led coup which would have obliterated democracy in Honduras. The Honduran military then organized – by itself – the coup, which involved kidnapping Zelaya, transporting him to Costa Rica and then re-establishing constitutional rule. Zelaya’s proponents were initially upset, but ultimately came to the bargaining table and negotiated the settlement with the opponents. Other than by you, no one has alleged that the U.S. knew about the Honduran miliary’s actions beforehand – they moved swiftly and in secret (even to Hondurans).
Your allegations about prior U.S. knowledge are non-factual – it just didn’t happen that way. Your specific allegations about Clinton are non-factual. Your allegations of U.S. support are non-factual. Your insinuations are non-factual. Everyone who knows anything about Honduras knows this and virtually no one is making claims like you are doing. In fact, you look sillier and sillier every single time you repeat them.
My advice to you is to read something factual about Honduras. What you are alleging is ridiculous. It undermines legitimate leftish criticism because it isn’t supported by facts.
different-church-lady
@patroclus:
Now let’s be fair here: fact free criticism with links isn’t very persuasive either.
different-church-lady
@Bob In Portland:
Maybe you ought to follow her lead, Bob.
patroclus
@Bob In Portland: The Tonkin Gulf “hoax” (as you put it) was patently obvious to all knowledgeable observers soon after LBJ lied about it upfront. The release of the Pentagon Papers merely confirmed what critics already knew (although they did serve to convince many that they had been wrong). The facts surrounding the Kennedy assassination were also known soon after it occurred; its problem was because of the deliberate obfuscations and wrong-headedness of the Warren Commission, which LBJ used (several months later) to misdirect the actual facts. None of that has anything to do with your non-factual allegations about Honduras – which are known. Hillary Clinton was not responsible for the coup; nor did she have foreknowledge. You really should read about it – it’s an interesting story, but you look ridiculous and you undermine legitimate leftish criticism when you continue, post after post, to make these idiotic criticisms.
You say that you want to discuss issues – try reading what other people say and doing some legitimate research before coming out yet again with this ridiculous nonsense. It makes you look like a Village plant, who is deliberately makinf left-wingers look bad.
patroclus
@different-church-lady: True enough, but his absurd allegations that Clinton cut an arms deal with Saudi Arabia after her service as SoS deserved some sort of link support; I thought, despite the fact that they are absurd. He, of course, has no link; hence he didn’t provide one.
patroclus
@Bob In Portland: If you really cared about Honduras and weren’t merely using it as a cudgel to criticize Hillary on a non-factual basis, you would support the democratic political opposition to Hernandez, who, while not running a “regime,” is a member of the NPH (the conservative party) rather than LIBRE (the leftish party) or the Liberal Party. Over 2/3rd’s of the Honduran population continue to live in poverty. Rather than continuing to circulate abject nonsense about the 2009 crisis, legitimate support of LIBRE or the Liberals would be a helpful way to redress the poverty. I realize it’s more boring than launching silly fact-free criticisms of Hillary, but it would be far more productive.
My guess is that, like you, Bernie doesn’t know much of anything about Honduras. Clinton (and Obama) do. Her foreign policy experience (despite her at times hawkishness) is what, in my opinion, makes her a far better candidate. Honduras would benefit more from a Hillary Presidency than one from someone who believes the nonsense you continually post.