Friday Morning Open Thread: The Internet Is For Remembering Grudges

Hey, remember Pepper Spray Everything Cop? (It was in all the media!) UC Davis would rather you didn’t. The LA Times reports that UC Davis is SOL on this:

… Newly released documents obtained by the Sacramento Bee show the university worked to clean up both its own image and that of Chancellor Linda Katehi.

In one case, UC Davis worked with Maryland company Nevins & Associates on a six-month contract that paid $15,000 a month, according to a copy of the contract. That contract was signed in January 2013, just a few months after the UC regents agreed to pay a settlement to 21 UC Davis students and alumni who sued the university….

As part of its contract, Nevins & Associates said it would work to remedy the “venomous rhetoric about UC Davis and the chancellor” through “strategic placement of online content.”…

Results, right now the top three insta-google results for ‘UC Davis’ are about the coverup, rather than the original incident; first two results for Chancellor Linda Katehi are local news covering last night’s calls for her resignation.

Apart from snark fatigue (and/or cursing tree pollen, if your histamines are as hairtrigger as mine), what’s on the agenda as we wrap up another week?

121 replies
  1. 1
    Darkrose says:

    Katehi’s attempt to corporatize UC Not-An-Ag-School blows up in her face?

    Why yes, I’ll have another helping of that schadenfreude pie.

  2. 2

    This is what is called the Streisand Effect on the Internet. As defined in Wikipedia:

    The Streisand effect is the phenomenon whereby an attempt to hide, remove, or censor a piece of information has the unintended consequence of publicizing the information more widely, usually facilitated by the Internet.

    You would hope that the leadership of a major university would have the common sense to be up-to-date enough in their understanding of the Internet to get this. But apparently not.

    In relation to which, I am SO glad to be five years retired from my IT career at a major midwestern university Division I athletics program. The university is getting ready to start letting its staff use Microsoft’s cloud integrated with latest versions of Office. Of course they will publish words that remind staffers to not put any sensitive data up there. And it will all end so well.

    Makes we want to run right out and buy a new car that any hacker with a laptop can drive right up to while I am toodling along at 75 on the Interstate, and remotely lock my brakes, turn off the ignition, or do just about anything they want because all the new wireless tech in these cars is being rolled out by idiots who apparently have read NOTHING about cybersecurity and the failures to secure networked devices for the past 20 years.

    Frankly, I am enjoying digging in the dirt of my garden right now, and not worrying about responsibility for this stuff anymore.

    I realize I was ranting, but Geeze, what total militant ignorance this nation has allowed to be bred into people across the board.

  3. 3
    piratedan says:

    if only the 90k that they paid those jackholes to cleanse their image (ineffectively) had gone to the folks that the campus cop sprayed, it would have at least been money better spent.

  4. 4
    Darkrose says:

    @piratedan: Don’t forget the worker’s comp settlement that the cop got for emotional distress because his name went public. Certainly, no one shrugged and told him that his stress didn’t make him eligible for worker’s comp.

    /takes deep breath

    Wow. I’d forgotten how much that pissed me off. I think I’m going to have a brownie and go to sleep.

  5. 5
    sm*t cl*de says:

    Repairers of Reputations never end well.

    And SRSly, how much astroturfed positive content were these mooks promising to pump out there? Enough to sink the negative content down to the bottom of a Goofle search response? Even outsourcing the spamming to trolls in a Ukrainian boiler-room, $90,000 is not buying to buy that much pollution of the Intertubes.

  6. 6
    Mary G says:

    And most of the undergraduate classes are being taught by adjunct instructors who are paid a pittance in order to save the big bucks for the administration.

  7. 7
    seaboogie says:

    Okay, police are authoritarian – check, but also young folks in their first, passionate bloom of self-hood in a passionate cause (OWS days) , and given to the drama of a situation . Here is a link that I found when I wanted to know more. I like it because it also offers a link without editorial comment.

    Pepper spray cop mos def douchey, but it was a certain situation. The officers should have done more talking to defuse the situation, but I kind of get how it went down like it did.

  8. 8
  9. 9
    NotMax says:

    Should Alain pop by, alt text for share buttons on posts could use some tightening up. screenshot

  10. 10
    SectionH says:

    @seaboogie: Balls.

    The kids were sitting down.

    That’s the same fucking BS used for Kent State.

  11. 11
    Schlemazel (parmesan rancor) says:

    So you are saying the kids should be grateful they were not shot dead?

  12. 12
    rikyrah says:

    Good Morning 😊, Everyone 😎.
    It’s Friday 😁

  13. 13
    Cermet says:

    Could this be a medaphor for how Berine’s people think Hillary is treating them?

  14. 14
    Schlemazel (parmesan rancor) says:

    Good morning to you too!

    For me it is flyday & am happy that I only have to do this twice more. Its the little things in life

  15. 15
    Baud says:

    As part of its contract, Nevins & Associates said it would work to remedy the “venomous rhetoric about UC Davis and the chancellor” through “strategic placement of online content.”…

    For those who want to prevent venomous rhetoric in the first place, place make the check out to “Baud!”

  16. 16
    Cat48 says:

    @rikyrah: @rikyrah:

    Good morning, happy one! I watched the Jackie Robinson story the first night, but fell asleep the 2nd night. I’m going to look for it online this weekend bc I really liked the first part.

  17. 17
    Schlemazel (parmesan rancor) says:

    To hear them talk I think they feel Panzer tanks & Poland would be a better metaphor in their opinion.
    They suffer too many who fall for the “wolverine fallacy” , that a tiny, untrained group of dedicated activists can take of an organized, experienced foe and somehow victory is assured because unlike the foe they are pure of heart.
    I am not saying they can’t win but it takes more than a pure heart and wishes to win elections

  18. 18
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    They’re learning:

    Tennessee governor vetos law to make Bible the official state book

    Legislators vow to overturn veto after Bill Haslam, a Christian, declares it ‘trivialises the Bible’ and breaches constitutional freedom of religion

    Well, some of them anyway.

  19. 19
    Morzer says:


    So you’ll make the kids pay for a yuuge, classy, beautiful anti-venom wall? Yes, yes?

  20. 20
    Baud says:

    @Schlemazel (parmesan rancor): These days, that’s something to be grateful for.


    Walls, walls, everywhere a wall
    Blockin’ out the scenery, breakin’ my balls

  21. 21
    LAO says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I hate how surprised by this I am.

    ETA: but then I read the article and my cynicism is restored. They plan an override vote. And 62% of Tennessee approves of the measure.

  22. 22
    What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us? says:

    Ted Cruz last night tried to overcome his NY values gaffe by saying that “Washington” had forgotten. It take a special kind of stupid to praise NY while criticizing the one other place that was attacked that day. Also, Ted was one of the guys holding up Zadroga Act funding for first responder medical care, so if we’re going to talk about who has forgotten what about 9/11 maybe we should start with that.

  23. 23
    MomSense says:

    I think it was last week but it may have been a few days ago (time flies in primary season) there was some information from Sanders’ Senate disclosure form showing that they own two houses and hold some investments. I think it was about 600k or so worth.

    Just guessing based on disclosure form information and what I know about Jane’s career in higher education that Bernie and Jane are millyanaires. Not saying they are mega millyanaires but I have noticed he has started to leave out the millyanaires in his line about the millyanaires and the billyanaires.

  24. 24
    Morzer says:


    I don’t know whether we can really accept your wall-building AND self-testicle-crushing plan. That seems like too much of a sacrifice.


  25. 25
    Baud says:


    Why do you want to shave my balls?
    Oh, you said “save.” Never mind.

  26. 26
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @LAO: Millions for lawyers defending blatantly unconstitutional laws but not one penny for healthcare for the working poor!

    Need to tighten that up. Too long for a t-shirt, never mind a bumper sticker.

  27. 27
    Morzer says:


    Well, you’ve figured most of it out, so I might as well put the last piece in the puzzle:

    Bernie Sanders is really the fourth Koch brother.

    Just don’t tell anyone I told you, ok?

  28. 28
    MomSense says:


    Now that would be news!

  29. 29
    Baud says:

    @Morzer: Brothers from another mother?

  30. 30
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    Joe’s Violin

    Heard about this on Fresh Air yesterday. Into the Netflix queue.

  31. 31
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Morzer: Only if the Mesikins pay for the wall.

  32. 32
  33. 33
    Morzer says:


    I’ll just say that there’s a reason why Putin is now willing to fund the preservation of Lenin’s mommy.. I mean mummy. Strange how I got those things mixed up.

  34. 34
    LAO says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: their disconnect is rather jarring. I will work on a shorter, pithier tag line today, when goofing off this afternoon.

  35. 35
    Baud says:


    “Money fo’ po’s, not ho’s.”

    Edited for better rhyme.

  36. 36
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    “Firstly, it once again confirms that the current U.S. president is a decent man, because to say such a thing is not easy. And that’s very good that my colleague possesses the courage to make such statements.”

    “Barack, as a senator, criticized the administration for its actions in Iraq. But, as president, he allowed a mistake to happen, he has said it himself, in Libya. Not everyone can do that. They snap at him from different sides over that but only a strong man could have done that.

    Vladimir Putin

  37. 37
    Baud says:

    Everyone is hung over from the debate, it seems.

  38. 38
    LAO says:

    Not bad. But We Can Do Better! Need coffee though to accomplish.

  39. 39
    Baud says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch:

    Not that I disagree, but … Putin.

  40. 40
    Morzer says:


    Some of us were hung over from before the debate.

    I name no names and gnome no gnomes, of course.

  41. 41
    Morzer says:


    How sad the GOP must be now that even Big Strong Bare-chested Vlad has betrayed them and endorsed Obama.

  42. 42
    Chyron HR says:

    @Schlemazel (parmesan rancor):

    They suffer too many who fall for the “wolverine fallacy” , that a tiny, untrained group of dedicated activists

    Not to be confused with the “Wolverine fallacy” regarding a tiny, unshaven Canadian.

  43. 43
    Baud says:

    @Morzer: I guess they’ve lost the ability to see into his soul.

  44. 44
    Joel says:

    @seaboogie: There’s definitely editorial comment in that video.

    The police fucked up, there’s really no ifs ands or buts about it. They didn’t fuck up as badly as others have, but they fucked up.

  45. 45
    Morzer says:


    But they’ll always have his nipple-rings!

    (How long before Romanov in Portland hurtles up through his cyber-trapdoor to denounce Joe The Real Ukrainian Fascist Biden?)

  46. 46
    LAO says:

    So I see from my daily morning check of newspaper sports sections, that the NY Post has endorsed Donald Trump. No linky, because fuck the Post.

  47. 47

    @Morzer: I didn’t see any of the debate though I did read some of the live blog here. A diary headline at GOS tells me Sanders “trounced” Clinton, so there’s that. I need an intervention to keep me from going there.

    The picture in this post is still shocking.

  48. 48
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Chyron HR: Or the WOLVERINES! fallacy, regarding very large unshaven Michiganders.

  49. 49
    Schlemazel (parmesan rancor) says:

    @Chyron HR:
    Well they are both based on a comicbook reality that does not exist out here where the rest of us live

    I was once stuck on an airplane with 100 drunken Wolverine fans headed to the ROse Bowl. It was 2 hours of M GO BLUE” before the bastards finally passed out.

  50. 50
    Morzer says:

    I occasionally like to see what the lunatics of the internet are doing, and John C Wright (minor and derivative “author” of fiction that GK Chesterton might have written if heavily drugged and being fondled amorously by Ayn Rand) produced something that is utterly hilarious:

    A most interesting conversation has gripped the Wright household this past week, and I am pleased that my lovely wife, unfortunately raised by ultrafarleftwing Reagan-haters, has finally managed to shake herself free of some of the deeper impressions left over from her upbringing.

    Yes, Virginia, there are Communists, and they mean to do exactly what they say they mean to do, starting with lies and propaganda and ending with death camps and genocide, all the while promising free health care.

    I guess he really is feeling the Bern! I am however puzzled as to how Communists can mean to do what they say they will do when they… start with lies. Truly, a conundrum.

  51. 51
    raven says:

    @Baud: not everyone

  52. 52
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Morzer: Our friend from Portland is too busy feeling the Bern these days.

  53. 53
    Baud says:

    They’re showing clips of the debate on the news. The audience really was a distraction.

  54. 54
  55. 55
    Morzer says:

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    I think I’d probably score the debate 53-47 in favor of Sanders, but I doubt that it will matter much in the great scheme of things.

  56. 56
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    @Baud: I know, but strikes me that if Putin had said the opposite it would have generated blaring headlines across the main stream media and the gop. It even blows the narrative of the fringe. I mean this has to be crushing for Bob in Portland and other assorted haters I won’t bother to name.

  57. 57
    Morzer says:


    Isn’t the Bern a class traitor for abandoning the true faith for the tawdry bourgeois delights of democratic socialism? In fact, objectively, he’s a fascist in sheep-wolf’s clothing.

  58. 58
    Morzer says:


    Allowing the mob into a democratic forum is the thin end of the wedge. Next they’ll be demanding pay for work and the right to vote.

  59. 59
    Baud says:

    @Morzer: Where does it stop?

  60. 60
    Morzer says:


    We need a wall, a big, huge, thrusting wall. And two walls on Sundays.

  61. 61
    Baud says:


    Is there anything a huge and classy wall can’t solve?

  62. 62
    WereBear says:

    It’s always the cover-up, isn’t it, Mr. Nixon?

  63. 63
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    Something is dawning on us—it’s almost too soon for us to admit, but it’s there, a half-considered thought only now blooming in our brains. Maybe we dismiss it with one of those quick cognitive fly swats. Nah, too early to say or I hate that guy. But the truth is coming, and it sounds like this: Barack Obama will be inducted into the league of Great Presidents.

    With Obama, each thoughtful step of the way, from his soaring acceptance speech (“The road ahead will be long. Our climb will be steep…”) to his epic speeches on race and religion, his responses to the shootings in Tucson and Newtown, the killing of Osama bin Laden, the opening of Cuba (“Todos somos Americanos!”), and countless other momentous occasions, he knew how to speak to our better angels at a time when it was hard to locate any angels.

    GQ – Editor and Chief

  64. 64
    Morzer says:


    Pigeons, definitely pigeons.

  65. 65
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    unemployment claims have dropped to match their lowest level in 42 years.

    This is great news for McCain!

  66. 66
    Morzer says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch:

    Man, there’s going to be some quality foaming at the mouth when some bright child reads that little gem to the assembled elite of the GOP.

  67. 67
    Morzer says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch:

    President Romney is probably writing the Ode to Joy for Solo Car Elevator as we speak.

  68. 68
    Baud says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch: If people had realized that seven years ago, we’d be in a much better place in this country.

  69. 69
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    Single mom finds justice in court on rare happy day

    Two months after Maclin left her two boys — they are 5 and 2 — in their apartment alone while she went to her minimum wage job at a movie theater, her legal entanglement is mostly over. On that Feb. 11 evening, a fire started while the boys were in the apartment. They suffered from smoke inhalation but were rescued by firefighters. The boys are with their father, in St. Louis County. Maclin hasn’t been allowed to see them since the day the fire started.

    But now:

    “We’re all pulling for you.”
    Indeed, an entire village of mothers, lawyers, clergy and outright strangers is on Maclin’s side, moved by her struggle. She was stuck in jail for 17 days, unable to make bail and take care of her children, charged with a crime that grew out of the desperate situations in which people in poverty often find themselves.

    The roots of poverty run deep in Maclin’s family. She is a second-generation teen mother. Growing up, her father was in prison. She’s been homeless. Now, for perhaps the first time in her life, she has hope.

    “To have all these people on my side, that’s been a shock,” she said. In court that day were Pam Ross, Marcia Kline and Yvette Goods. A larger network is offering money and other help. Just this week a St. Louis man offered free mechanical work on a car to help her get to work. “If I do have a problem, I have somebody to turn to.”

    Great. No really, I’m very happy that this woman caught a break, because when I read the first headline back in February, I didn’t even have to read the story to know that her only real crime was being a poor, struggling, single mother, and alone. Now what about all the other poor single mothers who are trying to do the right thing even when society says, “Don’t bother us and go away.”?

    Now Joyce is ordering a review of all child endangerment cases in her office to see if there are others like Maclin who might benefit from seeing a gentler side of the criminal justice system.

    Well that’s something anyway. Of course, we could go further, you know, free child care for all? So that single moms everywhere don’t have to pick between the lesser of 2 evils?


    Sometimes I just crack me up.

  70. 70
    Arm The Homeless says:

    So the dregs of FL GOP believe they might have a winner on their hands in Tim Tebow. They are looking to ensconse him in a Jacksonville CD while he is still famous enough to push forward their anti-slut, pro-Jeebus policies.

    Watching his teary confessions when pictures of him cavorting with male prostitutes surfaces, might be worth the election battle.

    The only catharsis I may receive is from the anonymous safety of the Internet since the Fam-In Law have personal connections w/ the little scamp and his bible beating brood. This Thanksgiving just became far more treacherous for me.

  71. 71
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    SouthFlorida4Hillary ‏@SFL4Hillary Apr 13

    Bernie Sanders Is Spending $6,000 an Hour to Lease a Private Jet to Fly to Rome to Give a Ten-Minute Speech about “the Idolatry of Money”

    414 retweets 357 likes

    Round trip from NYC to Rome is just $535. Sanders’s private jet will cost $102,000.


  72. 72
    Morzer says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch:

    Those contradictions won’t heighten themselves, man! Bernie is doing Lord’s… work in mysterious ways.

  73. 73
    Emma says:

    I avoided last night’s thread because I am tired of how many Democrats (1) still don’t get a lot of the crap that went on during the economic meltdown was immoral but legal (2) still don’t get how lawmaking is constitutionally mandated in this country (3) have internalized Republican smears against Hillary Clinton.

    On the other hand, I spent a lovely evening in Cao Chocolates (off US 1 and 98th, for locals), learning about how chocolate is made,tasting ridiculously wonderful chocolate made with cacao beans from all over the world, and why “fair trade” is a much more important designation than “organic”.

    Also that chocolate made with cacao beans from Haiti tastes like figs and why it’s totes worth it to pop $8 for a chocolate bar.

  74. 74
    MomSense says:


    Or if people swallowed their so-called “disappointment” because lots of state legislators, governors, referendum questions, and congress critters were on the ballots we’d be in a much better place right now.

  75. 75
    Just One More Canuck says:

    @Baud: I thought that was donuts

  76. 76
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Arm The Homeless: I remember thinking that I wanted Tebow to have a long NFL career–long enough to delay his inevitable entry into Republican politics.

  77. 77
  78. 78
    Arm The Homeless says:

    @FlipYrWhig: Our saving grace might be that he isn’t very quick on his feet. Not unless he is being chased by large sweaty men who want to lay on him in a dog-pile. And that’s only because it’s counter-productive to his team.

    Either way, I may need to plan on being sick for this year’s festivities.

  79. 79
    Morzer says:

    @Arm The Homeless:

    large sweaty men who want to lay on him in a dog-pile

    No need to be politically correct. You can say “Evangelical pastors” in here.

  80. 80
    WaterGirl says:

    @Morzer: That was good for a giggle. thanks

  81. 81
  82. 82
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    Boy, those New York values are really tough on a guy.

  83. 83
    Luthe says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch: While I really think Bernie could have gotten there for much cheaper (hitch a ride with the Air Force, perhaps?), I’m assuming the private jet was required for toting along his Secret Service goons. I don’t think they would have been too thrilled with their candidate flying commercial.

  84. 84
    Arm The Homeless says:

    @Morzer: LOLZ

    Here is one Internet. Don’t spend it all in one place.

  85. 85
    David Byron Hopson says:

    If Alain is reading: I’ve been trying to share this posting to FB, but the share button links to the posting above it.

  86. 86
    Shell says:

    (and/or cursing tree pollen,

    Seriously. Is the allergy season early for you too?

  87. 87
    blueskies says:


    You would hope that the leadership of a major university would have the common sense


    Oh man, you really crack me up. I’m in the business, and I haven’t seen common sense from “leadership” in decades. Actually, I haven’t seen much leadership at all. Definitely seen some empire building, though, with commiserate YUUUUUGE! salaries for former-C-students-turned-college-administrators.

    Katehi pulls down $420k just from her Davis gig, and she gets free housing. She pulled another $400k+ is cash and prizes from an association with DeVry, another $70K from somewhere else (stories vary), and many smaller associations. So, she’s making over $1M per annum. If I was a Cali taxpayer, I’d be pissed as hell.

  88. 88
    NorthLeft12 says:

    Yes, there will always be fools and charlatans who will attempt to bury, obfuscate, and deny their misdeeds with the help of PR firms who will gladly take the money in the vain attempt to make it happen.

    This is just laziness and stupidity on the part of the offender. Time and again it has been pretty much proven that the best way is to own the mistake, apologize, make restitution and learn from the incident. Then you do good things for awhile and prove that you actually have changed your behavior and believe it or not the public [for the most part] have moved on.

    There is opposing evidence that deny, deny, deny works too, but only with some of the public.

  89. 89
    boatboy_srq says:


    You would hope that the leadership of a major university would have the common sense to be up-to-date enough in their understanding of the Internet to get this.

    Academics, and academic administrators especially, can be among the most hopelessly out-of-touch. Ivory tower obscuring real-world advancement all around them and all that. Some school administrations only computerized because their information sciences’ divisions had already purchased the computers as instruction aids.

  90. 90
    Gin & Tonic says:


    Academics, and academic administrators especially, can be among the most hopelessly out-of-touch.

    I’m probably misquoting him, but Marvin Minsky wrote quite a while back to the effect that, say, a 19th century surgeon walking into a modern OR might have some idea that surgery is being done, but would not understand anything about what or how. A 19th century teacher walking into a modern classroom would recognize and understand pretty much everything.

  91. 91
    hedgehog the occasional commenter says:

    Wishing Miss Bianca, mr. h and anyone else traveling up to the Colorado state Dem convention this weekend safe travels to and from. Nasty big storm coming in this weekend with heavy spring snow.

  92. 92
    Amaranthine RBG says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch: Amoral assholes like amoral assholes.

  93. 93
    burnspbesq says:


    the NY Post has endorsed Donald Trump.

    Probably not the biggest surprise of the morning.

  94. 94
    laura says:

    @blueskies: I’m one of the posed off tax payers. The gift is strong in this Katehi, as her public statements show that she doesn’t think there’s anything wrong with hiring herself out for side work-especially when DeVry is the polar opposite of the UC system. That system was not designed to be a profit center, but a state supported system of education and alternative to private, for-profit or private non-profit.
    Her bone deep tone deafness is why she must go, and go she will.

    On the other hand, the UC Davis arboretum’s plant sales are heavenly! I’m going to pick up a hot pink, really shockingly hot pink bottle brush for the yard and should be covered with bees all spring, summer and we’ll into fall.

  95. 95
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @Luthe: so apparently his 4:00 Rome/10:00 EDT speech has been pushed back an hour, probably because he didn’t leave any buffer in the schedule for travel from the airport.

    The pope’s the disrespectful one, though.

  96. 96
    Linnaeus says:

    But the real problem on America’s college campuses is rampant political correctness.

  97. 97
    Aardvark Cheeselog says:


    Posts like this are why we need a downvote button.

  98. 98
    MomSense says:

    Ok here is what bothers me about this speech transcript non-issue issue. It seems that Sanders can only imagine one possible scenario which is that Clinton’s speeches were transactional – She gave one helluva speech (he wink winks this) and they expect something (probably yuuge and not classy) in return. Krugman has pointed out that Wall Street donations aren’t even pretending to be split anymore. They give to the Republicans because they view both Sanders and Clinton as determined to increase financial regulation and oversight. Krugman points out that Clinton’s proposals are also more comprehensive and deal with the shadow banking problem – WHICH IS A MUCH BIGGER FUCKING PROBLEM THAN SIZE after Dodd Frank. Yes, sometimes it actually is in the way that you use it.

    Here is the scenario that Sanders can’t seem to envision. It goes like this. Clinton being one of the most accomplished people in the world and the most admired woman in the world some 20 (give or take) times is a highly sought after speaker to all kinds of groups because she makes them look good. If you are an association or entity or bank or college or NGO, etc. and you can land an A list speaker, it is good for your image. She also happens to have pushed entrepreneurship and investing in women in the developing world and even the evil banks do contribute to good causes sometimes.

    Last weekend my son called me in the morning before 10 (!!) so I of course was scared because he is a texter and not a morning person. He called to tell me it was trustee weekend at his uber liberal college and he had just met some of the trustees. One of the trustees as it turns out is a big wig one of the BIG BANKS. He was laughing because his classmates are overwhelmingly for Sanders and he was wondering how they would feel if they found out that their school is tainted with Wall Street money. Now my oldest jumps into the conversation to demand that his college provide the transcripts of all the class lectures and discussions. Unless this trustee knows something the rest of us don’t about the future of anthropologists, philosophers, sustainable ag farmers, etc. I don’t think his donations are transactional in the nefarious sense in this case either.

    I guarantee you that Sanders has attended fundraising and other events over the years where some financial institution, even a big bank, was in attendance. I’m sure there were also events sponsored by some Wall Street entity. I’ve seen an image of a flyer purported to be for The New England Council’s breakfast event that shows a list of sponsors which include Bank of America, Comcast, Fidelity, Lincoln Financial, Liberty Mutual, AT&T, etc. Senator Sanders spoke to this group in Manchester, NH on 2/5/16. I haven’t seen his transcript. He said there were no transcripts last night so apparently this doesn’t count.

    This whole non-issue issue is beyond pathetic at this point. If Sanders wants to make a transparency issue than he should release his tax returns and clean up his FEC filings. If the person calling for campaign finance reform can’t meet the current requirements, that is a problem for me.

  99. 99
    WarMunchkin says:

    I don’t normally watch these debates; when I do, usually it’s just for a short amount of time. It’s hard for me to convey just how disappointed I was – the cheering, the sense of two competing rallies. It’s bizarre to see a Democratic debate where we can accuse one candidate of receiving bribes and another candidate of supporting murder and still pretend like we’re exercising democracy as a respectful enterprise. I was pretty upset last night, vodka didn’t help.

  100. 100
    Linnaeus says:


    On the other hand, I spent a lovely evening in Cao Chocolates (off US 1 and 98th, for locals), learning about how chocolate is made,tasting ridiculously wonderful chocolate made with cacao beans from all over the world, and why “fair trade” is a much more important designation than “organic”.

    Cocoa production, most of which is now done in West Africa, is rife with labor abuses, including slavery.

  101. 101
    Captain C says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch: Plus a lot of extra carbon emissions.

  102. 102
    Miss Bianca says:

    @rikyrah: Yes, it is! Good morning! : )

  103. 103
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch: I haven’t paid much attention to this story, but it looks just…. weird. Four days before a primary where he pretty much needs an upset win, and where he’s been falling behind (AFAI’ve read) in the polls, he leaves the country for a ten minute speech? Because he thought he was going to meet the Pope?

    @MomSense: apparently he’s doubled-down with an ad mostly about speecehs= corruption. I guess that’s gonna make up for missing two (or three?) days on the campaign trail.

  104. 104
    Emma says:

    @Linnaeus: Yes, he mentioned that, including the documentary The Dark Side of Chocolate. He only uses two sources in Africa, one in Tanzania and one in Madagascar, because they went out of their way to get fair trade certification. In fact, part of the discussion included a section on how your average chocolate bar is produced in order to make it that cheap.

    And most cheap cocoa production is from Africa, but you can get cacao from all over the Caribbean and South America, which is what he does. The expensive stuff.

  105. 105
    J R in WV says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch:

    Boy, I really like the sound of that little note!

    I wish I could write like that. Instead of like this, for example.

  106. 106
    japa21 says:

    @MomSense: That is the most reasonable statement I have seen on the whole speech issue.

    The absurdity of some of the accusations is ridiculous.

  107. 107
    Miss Bianca says:

    OMGosh, conference call with Sec. Clinton for CO delegates at 11:30!! Yes, please!! : )

  108. 108
    Linnaeus says:


    It seems that Sanders can only imagine one possible scenario which is that Clinton’s speeches were transactional

    There’s also a somewhat more nuanced view that Clinton’s speeches (which I’m not particularly concerned about) are indicative of the access that you get to politicians and policymakers when you have money, access that you don’t get when you have less money. From that follows an abiding suspicion that this access allows disproportionate influence on policymaking, even if it’s not a straight-up quid pro quo.

  109. 109
    J R in WV says:


    So Emma wrote

    I spent a lovely evening in Cao Chocolates …learning about how chocolate is made… [and] why “fair trade” is a much more important designation than “organic”.

    And then you respond with verbiage about “slavery” in the chocolate growing industry, just as if Emma hadn’t already mentioned “FAIR TRADE” at all in her remark about education.

  110. 110
    Linnaeus says:

    @J R in WV:

    And then you respond with verbiage about “slavery” in the chocolate growing industry, just as if Emma hadn’t already mentioned “FAIR TRADE” at all in her remark about education.

    I wasn’t contradicting or criticizing Emma’s comment at all. I was expanding upon it, as Emma has understood in her response to me.

  111. 111
    Miss Bianca says:

    @hedgehog the occasional commenter: thanks for that – I’ll be heading out at noon, should miss the worst going up, and am probably staying over Saturday night in Loveland, so with any hope, will miss the worst coming home!

    @Emma: How I envy you! Chocolate making (and of course, eating) is a passion of mine. Had some fine Venezualan criolla last night – fair trade is the way to go!

  112. 112
    MomSense says:


    The speeches were also to the American Camping Association, the Ecomomic Club of Grand Rapids, the National Realtors, and others.

    If it were really about access then wouldn’t we see them put down the big money on her campaign? These speaking fees are a lot to us but they really aren’t what we know these Wall Street firms donate to political campaigns.

  113. 113
    MomSense says:


    I still think this is about Wall Street firms hiring Clinton to give speeches to improve their public images and to impress shareholders.

  114. 114
    Linnaeus says:


    I agree – I’m just offering another interpretation that I’ve heard.

  115. 115
    cleek says:

    fuckin Condi Rice’s speaking fee is reported to be $150K. and she was neither a former NY Senator, nor a former First Lady (let alone the wife of the still very popular Bill Clinton). nor was she ever as popular in her own right as Hillary Clinton. and, she had hands all over the very unpopular W Presidency.

    given that, it doesn’t seem odd at all that HRC could get $200K+ per speech.

  116. 116
    MomSense says:


    We’re kind of riffing off each other.

  117. 117
    Ruckus says:

    In the world of money (which of course most of us do not live in) spending is how you keep score. It isn’t the words spoken that matter, it’s that someone could be paid that sum to give it. I’d bet that none of us could have been paid $5000 to give exactly the same speech.

  118. 118
    cleek says:

    of course we couldn’t. none of us are former SoS’s, First Ladies or Senators.

    people will happily pay to watch famous people do things – even boring things like give speeches.

  119. 119
    Paul in KY says:

    If I was alumni of that school, I’d be spitting mad.

  120. 120
    Linnaeus says:


    Dig those riffs, man.

  121. 121
    Ruckus says:

    I have been paid to give speeches though. Have to admit it was my regular salary.

Comments are closed.