Open Thread: NY Daily News Interviews/Endorses HRClinton

For fairness. I think Hillary did a pretty good job during her interview — of course, I would — which demonstrates that her campaign remains on target in learning from past mistakes. Here’s a link to the transcript:

Daily News: Okay. Well, let’s move it out to the macro picture then. Assess the state of the American economy and in particular as it relates to the American worker.

Clinton: I’d say the following: First, we have weathered the Great Recession better than most countries. It was devastating. We had a total loss of 9 million jobs. Five million homes were lost and $13 trillion in family wealth was wiped out. That was a body blow from which many Americans have not yet recovered, and I don’t believe that the economy as a whole has fully recovered.

We have seen some good signs, we’ve increased the rate of job creation. We haven’t yet gotten back to labor participation rates as they were before the Great Recession, but there are some positive signs. I would characterize our challenges as follows. First of all, I think the federal government has an opportunity and, indeed, an obligation to play a more active role in supporting job creation: infrastructure jobs, advanced manufacturing jobs, clean renewable energy jobs. We also have to figure out what is holding down small business formation. There’s credit problems, there are licensing, regulation problems, but we have fallen down the global standing in creating small businesses. So we’ve got to unleash that again and unleash the entrepreneurial spirit.

I think if we take the plans I’ve outlined, and I’ve been as specific as I can be and much more than anybody else has been in this campaign, you can see the kind of blueprint that I would work to implement as President to try to get more good jobs with rising incomes, to target places that need extra help, places in upstate New York, places in Appalachia, Native American reservations, places that are truly being left out unless we change our approach. And I think we can get results.

Daily News
: When you announced, or when you gave your economic policy speech, you referred back to President Clinton’s record and the creation of 23 million jobs. And you did say that President Obama had rescued the economy from the abyss at that point. What you did not do is celebrate the record of job creation, and you didn’t go any further than saying that he had rescued the economy and rescued the auto industry. And I’m wondering why.

Clinton: Well, I have in other speeches. I can’t recall the exact wording of that one you’re referring to, but in many different settings, I have said, you know, we’ve recovered jobs and we still have a ways to go. We’ve had good monthly job numbers from the Department of Labor. Now I think it’s 70, 71 straight months, so we’ve got a good record.

Daily News: Seventy-three.

Clinton: Seventy-three. We’ve got a good record and now we have to build on it. So I often say he did dig us out of the ditch that he inherited. He got us standing again. We’re walking but we need to be running. And that’s where I think my plans, my understanding of what has worked and what can work again will be put to good use if I’m President…

There’s much more in the whole interview, but yeah she’s very up front about running for what the haters call “Obama’s third term.” And she’s also strongly defending the economic performance of Democratic administrations in general as opposed to that of Republicans.

Further, she provides a lot of detail hitting all my fellow front-pager Kay’s favorite “fairness” points: companies forcing communities to ‘race for the bottom’, tax inversions, explicitly supporting both the NY version of Fight for Fifteen and the ACA, equal pay for women as “a family issue,” surcharges on incomes over a million. She even steals my favorite Senator Warren’s line about how “the system is rigged, and that’s got to change.” There’s a lot of wonk-talk, numbers, nibbling around the edges of problems too big to change by fiat… and also some well-chosen anecdotes about things that need changing, why improvements need to be made in specific places.

I’m sure every detail will be picked over during the next week. And not to excite the Hamilton fans too much, but Clinton had already spoken in favor of keeping NYC’s own Founding Father on the ten (and putting a woman on the twenty).






268 replies
  1. 1

    I’m just gonna sit down and give it a read here now then. Been meaning to, and I need to unwind, and (and I say this as a supporter) I think a long Hillary interview will be just the thing to make me a lil sleepy.

    Gotta rest up for my big job interview tomorrow!

  2. 2
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    I have a high opinion of James Fallows and this surprises me

    James FallowsVerified account
    ‏@ JamesFallows
    DNC / Clinton / Sanders should study this past hour of Trump family on CNN. This is what we call a real pivot.

    I think he means a pivot to a more serious, less buffoonish candidacy. I can’t imagine an hour puff piece on CNN– which I did not watch because it’s Trump, on CNN– can undo the last year, not least with the Republicans who really hate him.

  3. 3
    Steeplejack says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Good luck on the interview.

  4. 4
    Yutsano says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Gotta rest up for my big job interview tomorrow!

    LUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!

    The sleeping pills have hit.Off behind the veil I go…

  5. 5
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    things I learned today: Jeff Weaver is not a full time political operative

    osh Marshall ‏@ joshtpm 4h4 hours ago
    Since Weaver owns comic book store when not running campaigns (yes, really), what villain wld he be in what comic?

  6. 6
    Turgidson says:

    Clinton had already spoken in favor of keeping NYC’s own Founding Father on the ten (and putting a woman on the twenty).

    Yes, please. It’s long past time we stopped lionizing that economically illiterate butcher. Put Eleanor on the $20, I say.

  7. 7
    Brachiator says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Wishing you major good luck with your interview.

  8. 8
    sigaba says:

    Only a nutcase would prefer anyone else’s first term over Obama’s third.

  9. 9

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    Every time someone thinks Trump is going to pivot to seriousness he says something even more crazed and offensive. He won’t because he can’t. A short-fingered vulgarian is who he is. In the same way, all speculation about when the Bushes would release the dogs on Trump were pointless. What you see is what you’re getting, folks. No master plans, no secret string-pullers.

  10. 10
    magurakurin says:

    Hopeful signs for the youth to come around. The bitter 40 and 50 year old BernBros can go fuck themselves, but the youth have their hearts in the right place. Better than when I was in my 20’s when I stood in utter disbelief that all my peers were going gaga for Ronnie Raygun. Most of the younger people will realize that settling for Clinton is not a bad deal in the end.

    Young Hillary Clinton Supporters Decry ‘Ideological Purity.’

    “For a young twentysomething who is liberal, there’s a social pressure to uphold that ideological purity,” says Thomas Lawler, a 22-year old recent college grad who works in child care and the arts. “We don’t post articles about Hillary. There’s more social capital to be gained by posting something positive about Bernie.”

    But Lawler says that even if his Facebook doesn’t reflect it, he’s for Hillary all the way. “I would rather have a politician for president than an ideologue,” he says. “I don’t see Hillary as a compromise candidate. I am fully behind her.”

    For Lawler’s friend Casey Zuckerman, Bernie Sanders’ single-issue campaign is a major turn-off. She thinks that her friends who back Sanders are making the perfect the enemy of the good. “You’re allowed to get away with being impractical if you’re voting on your morals,” she says. “But isn’t it more moral to actually win and get something close to a progressive agenda, rather than nothing?”

    Both Zuckerman and Lawler are recent Vassar grads, and they think the college atmosphere is partly the reason for Sanders’ strength among younger voters. “When you live in a bubble on a college campus, it gives you the luxury of having ideologically pure positions,” Zuckerman says. “White men can afford to be like, ‘Bernie or Bust,’” Lawler adds.

  11. 11

    @magurakurin: Yeah, I can’t wait until primary season is over and I can go back to ignoring my Facebook friends who believe in astrology instead of ignoring my Facebook friends who are feeling the Bern.

    Fun fact: significant overlap.

  12. 12
    NotMax says:

    Daily News endorses H. Clinton.

    Sky is blue.
    Water is wet.
    Cole is cranky.

  13. 13
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    Subjected to meaningful scrutiny for the first time, the senator from Vermont proved utterly unprepared for the Oval Office while confirming that the central thrusts of his campaign are politically impossible.

    In your guts, you know his nuts.

  14. 14
    West of the Cascades says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Amen. I have been “liking” a lot of posts about flowers lately because I can’t “like” their Berniescreeds.

  15. 15
    BR says:

    So I’ve been pretty hard on Sanders the last few weeks because he seems pretty clueless.

    But I have to say Clinton is leaving a lot to be desired. This is her second national campaign, fourth if you include Bill’s. She should be way better at this than she is (and I don’t mean just her, but her plus her entire staff / operation). Obama’s operation was top notch starting from ground zero. She’s had at least 8 years to plan this and her campaign still feels lackadaisical.

  16. 16
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    @NotMax: and leon is getting larger.

  17. 17
    mclaren says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch:

    And subjected to meaningful scrutiny for the first time,Hillary Clinton proved superbly prepared for the Oval Office while confirming that the central thrusts of her campaign are politically impossible as well as economically and socially useless because they merely recap 90s nostrums that have been tried and long since failed.

  18. 18
    mclaren says:

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    Every time someone thinks Trump is going to pivot to seriousness he says something even more crazed and offensive. He won’t because he can’t.

    Bingo. This is why a Democrat will sit in the Oval Office in January 2017, and the landslide will be epic this November. A good reason to vote for Bernie, by the way. Since a Democrat is guaranteed to win, why not go with the most progressive Demo available?

  19. 19
    magurakurin says:

    @Major Major Major Major: My facebook feed is so restricted that I don’t have that issue. But I occasionally get glimpses of threads from friends of friends postings. Some serious crazy building out there. I think that many will be surprised, though, once the nominee is decided. Anyone who wants to do the Nader thing is going to find themselves very alone. Sanders might go all in for Clinton or he might be just lukewarm, but I don’t think there is much chance at all that he will run an independent bid. And the vast majority is going to form in battalions behind Clinton.

  20. 20

    @mclaren: You spent five paragraphs on automation. It seems close to your heart. What does Bernie have to say about that? Honestly asking.

  21. 21
    mclaren says:

    @magurakurin:

    I guess I can go fvck myself, as Berniebro over 40. But since I’ve already said I’ll happily vote for Hillary as the nominee, why should I fvck myself?

    Your whole screed is based on a myth. Unlike 2008, there’s no bitterness among most Democrats. Those of us who support Bernie will vote for Hillary if she’s the nominee, just as those you who support Hillary will vote for Bernie if need be.

    We’re all in this together. Why are trying to tear us apart and create dissension among Democratics when there is none?

  22. 22
    mclaren says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    You’re dead right, Sanders doesn’t have much to say about it. But his policies are still miles better than Hills’.

  23. 23
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Jim Fallows lives in the Beltway and the Beltway media’s pro-republicanism slant affects his judgement.

    Back in 2005 he did a lecture on C-SPAN saying there will never be another Democratic president because in the age of terror the country will always need a strong daddy.

    There is just a sickness in the DC press (sans David Corn).

  24. 24

    @mclaren: I’ve seen (personally) loads of people say they’ll never nope no way not in a million years vote for anybody but Bernie, especially not Hillary. Now, a lot of these folks are Naderites/Greens/Libertarians(?) anyway, and I’m not believing it too much into it when it comes from actual Dems, but they’re definitely out there.

  25. 25
    BR says:

    @mclaren:

    I hesitate to say this, but I think you’re right in your diagnosis — Clinton is really just tinkering around the edges and I felt the same about her interview and policy prescriptions.

    On the other hand, Sanders hasn’t thought through anything beyond his applause lines.

    I really wish we had better candidates…

  26. 26
    mclaren says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    You spent five paragraphs on automation. It seems close to your heart. What does Bernie have to say about that?

    There’s another important issue here — where candidates stand on the policies tell us something about their mindset. Is the candidate data-driven? Is s/he flexible, able to adapt if the initial policies don’t work? Can the candidate offer new solutions indicative that they can handle a rapidly changing economy and society, or is the candidate just offering tired old canards and buzzwords?

    Hillary’s whole approach to policy suggests she has a fixed limited mindset formed in the 1990s. To Hillary, every type of economic or foreign policy is hammer, which means she views all solutions as nails to get hammered. Faced with a screw, Hillary is at a loss.

    Bernie Sanders at least offers some fresh thinking. This suggests that he is more innovative in searching for solutions to our problems, and more data-driven because at least he realizes the old DNC-approved tinker-around-the-edges solutions that were tried in the 90s aren’t working and we need something more.

    That’s why I think Sanders offers a better choice than Hillary. But she won’t be a bad president, just a placeholder for someone who can offer the kind of genuinely new policies we need to deal with the enormous changes we’re facing in our society and our economy.

    As for you anecdotal evidence that you’ve heard lots of Bernie supporters say they’re voting for Bernie or no one, the data from polls just don’t reflect that. Polls show that Bernie and Hillary supporters mostly agree on general policy. The cognitive dissonance you’re getting is caused by the noise from twitter and Facebook, both dominated by the most extreme and most vehement partisans. The polling data strongly suggest that when the time comes, most Bernie supporters will vote for Hillary if she’s the nominee.

    Moreover, it frankly doesn’t matter if the under-25 Berniebros don’t vote in this election, because the brutal face remains that under-25 voter essentially never vote in any election. Compare the voting rates of over-60 people (60+ percent) to the voting rates of under-25 people (under 20% typically). Young people are apathetic when it comes to actually pulling the lever in the voting booth and as a result they are largely useless in actual electoral politics. Young people make lots of noise, but don’t show up to vote, so it doesn’t matter if they stay away from voting in this electoral cycle. But in any case even the polling for that demographic shows that they probably will vote for Hillary if faced with Trump or Cruz.

  27. 27
    BR says:

    @mclaren:

    I assume you read hipcrime vocab?

    http://hipcrime.blogspot.com/

  28. 28
    Calouste says:

    @mclaren: How do you know that Sanders is actually going to do what he is talking about? The man (and his wife) is a bald faced liar as evidenced by the statements they have made about their tax returns, or more accurately, about them not publishing their tax returns.

  29. 29
    mclaren says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch:

    Fallows also spent most of the last 5 years living overseas in China. So he’s not very well wired into American society right now. He essentially missed the whole growth of inequality + young people unable to find decent jobs + erosion of the middle class while he was writing breathless puff pieces about the glories of the Chinese economy growing like gangbusters.

  30. 30
    ruemara says:

    @Major Major Major Major: w00tw00t! Get it, Major⁴! I wish you much success on the interview.

    I’m not surprised at the choice. Even if you wrapped your clear eyed assessment in the kindest view of Sanders possible, he came off terrifyingly vague, surprisingly ignorant and strangely blithe. It was so… armchair. Just sitting in an armchair, jawing about revolutionary ideas but not really getting past the idea to a plan.. Just strange. We’ll see how this plays out.

  31. 31
    magurakurin says:

    @mclaren:

    I guess I can go fvck myself

    from your lips to God’s ears. But I kind of thought that has been the conventional wisdom around here for, like, evah. But allow me to retort

  32. 32
    starscream says:

    @magurakurin: I absolutely love this article. I just wish more people would point out that Bernie himself fails his purity tests. The lies about his tax returns are just the latest example.

  33. 33
    Darkrose says:

    @Major Major Major Major: /crosses fingers and toes for you

  34. 34
    Amir Khalid says:

    @mclaren:
    Bernie may have the more progressive labelling. But compare his interview transcript with Hillary’s. He comes off as a much poorer candidate: he can’t articulate his policy thinking beyond the superficial level of a stump speech, for a man with decades in Congress, he seems dangerously naive about how to get things done in DC, he actually answers an important foreign policy question with “Gee, I never thought about that”. That’s just not good enough for the Oval Office.

  35. 35
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    @Amir Khalid: He’s not even progressive. He repeatedly voted against immigration reform, to keep GITMO open, in favor of the NRA, in favor of the crime bill… for goodness sakes, he even voted to deregulate Wall Street (vote).

    Yet somehow he’s “progressive” cuz he rails cartoonishly against the rich, even though he’s probably a millionaire, himself.

  36. 36
    Aqualad08 says:

    @mclaren:

    Since a Democrat is guaranteed to win, why not go with the most progressive Demo available?

    Because the slightly less progressive one will actually bring the Senate and a good chunk of the House with her…

  37. 37
    m.j. says:

    In an interview on CBS with Scott Pelley, John Kasich (you know, the sane one) had this to say.

    It’s not the Kasich White House, it’s all the civilized world that needs to go to war.

    There’s a whole lot of crazy and stupid packed into that little sentence.

  38. 38

    I would be perfectly happy with either Democratic candidate in the WH. But I do have fears about the level of acrimony that the GOP will bring to a Clinton Administration. The hate they hold is palpable, even if it’s based upon fabricated bullshit.

    I think Clinton would bring more dems into the legislature. I think Sanders would appeal to a more progressive legislature but there are less self styled Progressives than there are Dems. I’m leaning a bit more towards Clinton these days but still hoping Bernie enjoys primary success without quite winning it.

  39. 39
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Xboxershorts:

    The hate they hold is palpable, even if it’s based upon fabricated bullshit.

    The hate they hold is not of Hillary, it’s of you.

  40. 40
    Baud says:

    @m.j.: In the eyes of the Village, that statement will be deemed Churchillian.

  41. 41
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: And to finish the thought: They fear Hillary.

  42. 42
    geg6 says:

    @mclaren:

    Sorry, but the idea that Hillary has a fixed, limited mindset toward policy mired in 90s think and that Bernie is an innovative policy wonk is on its face laughable. If either candidate is mired in a fixed mindset and who sees every problem’s solution as a hammer, it wouldn’t be the one without the Y chromosome.

  43. 43
    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism says:

    Hamilfans are too busy enjoying page 151 to care at the moment….

    Me being me, I’m also enjoying pages like 202-203*, but not everyone’s into that.

    *Early drafts of some of the songs.

  44. 44

    Speaking of musicals, I saw the University of Miami’s final dress rehearsal for “Guys and Dolls” last night. This is a musical that seems to follow me around. I first worked on it in 1972 at the same University of Miami, building the set and working on the running crew. Since then, I’ve worked on it at the University of Minnesota, the University of Colorado, Evansville Day School, and Harbor Springs High School. Fun fact: for all the times I’ve been involved with the show, I’ve never actually played a part on stage in it.

  45. 45
    gene108 says:

    @Turgidson:

    er. Put Eleanor on the $20, I say.

    I want FDR’s Sec. of Labor Frances Perkins. She is to the creation of our post-WW2 standard of living – 40 hr work week, end of child labor, creation of Social Security, etc – that Hamilton is to getting the country’s books in order.

  46. 46
  47. 47
    Germy says:

    Tom Hayden endorses Hillary Clinton:

    I am committed to building a united front against Donald Trump, and working with both Democratic and independent voters toward the best possible ticket and platform for the Democratic Party in November. But sounding out supporters of both Sanders and Hillary Clinton, I’m worried that terrible friction is brewing between the two Democratic camps left in this primary.

    Democrats all have to unite to win the White House and Supreme Court this year, building bridges without permanent bruising or the confusion of divide-and-conquer.

    The state of the race is in flux. Respect and support for Bernie are rising, though Hillary maintains a 212-delegate edge. As of April 3, The New York Times assessed that Bernie will need “landslide” victories in the battles ahead. He’s certain to win more than the 16 states where he has already prevailed. Most of those states have been similar to Wisconsin, where 88 percent of the population is white, an enduring issue for the Sanders campaign. But of the major primaries that are coming up, several might be fruitful territory for Bernie. In New York, Hillary will need to tack towards Bernie on fair-trade issues or face losses in the Rust Belt regions of northern and western New York. Here in California, Bernie trails Hillary by six points, with 7 percent of the electorate undecided. And my sense is that California is winnable for Bernie. Lose or win, Bernie represents the most impressive independent campaign in American history, with the final chapters and legacy yet to be written.

    http://boingboing.net/2016/04/.....ry-cl.html

  48. 48
    Baud says:

    @Germy: Who’s Tom Hayden?

  49. 49
    Germy says:

    @Baud: Played rhythm guitar for the Byrds.

  50. 50
    Baud says:

    @Germy: Ok, thanks.

  51. 51
    Steeplejack (phone) says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch:

    In your guts, you know his nuts.

    Phrasing!

  52. 52
  53. 53
    Elizabelle says:

    @gene108: I wonder if the Treasury should handle the “woman on the currency” matter like state quarters.

    Go with a rotating number of exceptional women. Why not Harriet Tubman AND Eleanor Roosevelt AND Frances Perkins AND maybe up to 10 or even more women. They deserve it, and it would be fun to see the bills and maybe collect them.

    And we could add Alexander Hamilton to the mix too. Why should he lose his spot on the currency, just when he’s making bank on Broadway? Recognize his achievements and recognize the women too.

  54. 54
    different-church-lady says:

    @magurakurin:

    Better than when I was in my 20’s when I stood in utter disbelief that all my peers were going gaga for Ronnie Raygun.

    You know, that’s a brilliant counter-point to those who seem to think that since Bernie’s got the youth locked up the rest of us can go pound sand. “Regan had the youth vote locked up too, and look what we got.”

  55. 55
    different-church-lady says:

    @mclaren:

    I guess I can go fvck myself, as Berniebro over 40.

    Nah. You can go fvck yourself for a whole bunch of other reasons…

  56. 56
    Baud says:

    GMA Poll: Trump crushing it in New York.

  57. 57
    WereBear says:

    It is my opinion that if a charismatic and good lookin’ person, without a lot of experience beyond the academic, in their forties, were to build an unprecedented coalition and inspired people with their speeches, and were, yet FEMALE…

    It wouldn’t have happened.

    But then, times are changing, and a lot of these old attitudes are literally dying off. Not that I don’t welcome a woman President.

    I just feel she has to be, as they say, twice as good.

    Twice as good as Trump? Even so.

  58. 58
  59. 59
    Weaselone says:

    @mclaren:

    That’s actually a fairly compact nut of BS compared to what you usually write. So, Hillary has a fixed mindset today. I’m assuming you’re holding off on the Hillary, political chameleon with no core beliefs for tonight. Clinton has demonstrated the ability to shift her policy and positions with the times on everything from Health Care to the Economy to Social Justice. Her policies are updated to reflect current information, as well as the current political rallies. Bernie is the candidate with a fixed mindset. His solution to every problem is breaking up the big banks something something millionaires and billionaires.

  60. 60
    different-church-lady says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    he can’t articulate his policy thinking beyond the superficial level of a stump speech

    Maybe that’s the reason he comes off as authentic: his stump speech is the depth of policy thinking.

  61. 61
    bystander says:

    @BR:

    I really wish we had better candidates…

    Yes, if only we had someone who had worked on the state executive level, the federal executive level, served in Congress, and headed a major federal cabinet representing the US internationally. Somebody with impeccable academic credentials who backs equal pay, equal rights, voter protections, sensible gun control, funding public education adequately and preserving women’s healthcare rights, and who sets out reasonable legislative implementation plans.

    But then, WHITEWATER!

  62. 62
    different-church-lady says:

    @Aqualad08: Feeling cocky, are we?

  63. 63
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    @Baud: Well that’s expected, after all, New York is full of Trump University alumni.

  64. 64
    bystander says:

    @different-church-lady:

    You know, that’s a brilliant counter-point to those who seem to think that since Bernie’s got the youth locked up the rest of us can go pound sand.

    Why anybody talks about the death of irony is beyond me. Seems to be alive and kicking.

  65. 65
  66. 66
    MomSense says:

    @Mustang Bobby:

    I was the Cuban dancer way back when. At the end of the show I couldn’t get those songs out of my head. Just reading your post made me start singing.

    When you see a guy reach for stars in the sky you can bet That he’s doin’ it for some doll.

  67. 67
    BR says:

    @bystander:

    Um, not a great counterargument.

    I’m not just looking for credentials, but for someone who gets the core of the challenges that we face today. What sorts of credentials did Obama have in 2008?

    The key for me is to see a candidate who 1) articulates at a gut level some of the problems that are going on (I’ll give Sanders a bit more credit here than Clinton), 2) understands beyond a gut level what’s going on (here Clinton wins, though she is still advancing a bit too much 1990s “opportunity agenda” for me), and 3) lays out a specific path to getting there (Clinton wins here again, but with a much narrower set of goals). My problem is that neither candidate nails all three.

  68. 68
    Micheline says:

    @Germy: It’s disconcerting that HRC may lose CA.

  69. 69
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @BR:

    My problem is that neither candidate nails all three.

    They never do.

  70. 70
    Micheline says:

    @BR: You’re not the only one who feels that way; there are many who feel this way. It seems as if only Obama has the best qualities of both candidates.

  71. 71
    rikyrah says:

    Good Morning 😊, Everyone 😎.

  72. 72
    Schlemazel (parmesan rancor) says:

    Was out wondering around the Ballson area near DC yesterday. I noticed a bright green stick pasted on a utility box

    Bore? Gush?
    NO!
    VOTE NADER!

    what surprised me was it looked almost new, no fade. I wondered if someone had intentionally put it there as a reminder of what happens when people arrogantly think they can ignore the good of the nation for their own narrow interests.

  73. 73
    Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class says:

    @Baud:

    Tom Hayden is a corporatist tool who is selling out progressives….

  74. 74
    WereBear says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Yep, if we ran Santa Claus, the Republicans would paint him as a SOCIALIST.

    He gives toys away! He hires Little People! He only works one day a year!

  75. 75
    debbie says:

    @Baud:

    I’d like to see a New York poll where they break it out by boroughs. I’d bet Trump’s through the roof in places like Staten Island.

  76. 76
    Aimai says:

    @BR: its not a beauty contest. No one needs to “nail” anything for the delectation of jaded political palates. Christ just stop moaning about your restricted, sophisticated, political needs. You could just say FYIGM and retreat to your couch and spare us the philosophizing.

  77. 77
    Baud says:

    I hope Anne Laurie is ok.

  78. 78
    debbie says:

    @Baud:

    He was also a spokesman for the SDS in the 1960s.

  79. 79
    BR says:

    @Micheline:

    Agreed — I’ll miss Obama for that.

    I think Warren had/has all three — she is able to articulate at a gut level what’s going on in the country but is enough of a wonk to understand it deeply and knows how to fix it.

  80. 80
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Good luck!

    @BR: “I really wish we had better candidates…”
    Baud?

    @mclaren: Good to see that you’re not one of the “Bernie or Bust” voters. Perhaps that whole thing is blown out of proportion by the media to make it look as if Democrats are in disarray similar to Republicans.

  81. 81
    Baud says:

    @debbie:

    I bet. Although it’s a poll of Republicans, so I’m not sure how much it varies by geography, when the alternatives are Cruz and Kasich.

  82. 82
    BR says:

    @Aimai:

    I get the whole ‘go to war with the candidates you have’ thinking. I’m planning on putting both a Sanders and a Clinton bumpersticker on my car to make that clear. But all I’m saying is that while I’m doing that, I’m also feeling like I don’t really think either of them is a great candidate because they are each missing something major the other has.

  83. 83
    rikyrah says:

    @Major Major Major Major:
    Good luck 🍀 with the interview.😏

  84. 84
    Baud says:

    @Patricia Kayden: Thank you. You have options, people.

  85. 85
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Baud: Asleep at the wheel again. I suspect she’s just had another “senior moment”.

  86. 86
    rikyrah says:

    @BR:
    I don’t know if I would have trusted Warren with foreign policy, but I know that I would have trusted her with domestic policy, and if she had gotten into the race, she would have wiped the floor with Hillary.

  87. 87
    Baud says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Probably tired after a long night of kicking Berniebros in the nuts.

  88. 88
    Schlemazel (parmesan rancor) says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    BINGO!

    Part of being an adult is admitting you cannot have it all when it comes to candidates, it is always going to be someone that checks the most boxes for you and hope they do OK on the rest. Christians have been waiting for the return of the Messiah for 2000 years, Jews have been waiting for his appearance at least twice as long, I don’t have that level of patients, I settle for the best I can get right here right now. It ain’t aspirational or inspirational but it is practical. And I won’t still be waiting for the Great Profit Zarquan while I dine at the Restaurant at the End Of the Universe.

  89. 89
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    Only in America would an Iranian-born immigrant son of a taxi driver and maid trying to help elect our first woman president be protested at his home,” Pishevar told the Guardian. “But I welcome nonviolent protests as an exercise of our great democracy.”

  90. 90
    Schlemazel (parmesan rancor) says:

    @WereBear:

    Santa Claus has a red suit, hes a communist
    And a beard and long heir, must be a pacifist
    Whats in the pipe that he’s smoking?

    The Pause of Mr. Claus – Alro Guthrie

  91. 91
    Betty Cracker says:

    @different-church-lady: Except it’s not quite true: Reagan and Carter split the yoot vote pretty evenly.

    @Baud: Why wouldn’t she be?

  92. 92
    Baud says:

    @Michael Brown:

    says the dipshit whom admits to being “ga-ga” over Reagan.

    Yeah, you lack reading comprehension.

  93. 93
    Weaselone says:

    @WereBear:
    Don’t forget that he wears red.

    Also, follow up story on his disturbing habits with children. Stalking behaviour, gives them gifts, has them sit on his lap.

    And don’t forget his exploitive labor practices as regarding the elves.

  94. 94
    Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class says:

    @BR:

    Sanders’ “policy” proposals are bumper sticker bullshit. His candidacy is the battered biodiesel Volvo belching french fry grease in front of you in the traffic jam, reeking as you look at the “coexist”, “no war but class war” and NORML bumper stickers holding it together. Every ridiculous fucking idea that emanates from that rotten melon he calls a brain is done as an afterthought, no care given to the consequences, costs or required mitigation that would be utterly necessary if his idiocy were to be implemented.

    Hopefully the DNC will no longer give this fool cover should he decide to run again in Vermont and put up an actual candidate, consequences be damned.

  95. 95
    WereBear says:

    @BR: Which is why Bernie for Veep is my dream. He could Get Things Done in the Biden mode, with discreet goals, while Hillary runs stuff.

    One of my cats has more executive ability than Trump. Well, the tortie, for certain.

  96. 96

    @mclaren:

    Since a Democrat is guaranteed to win, why not go with the most progressive Demo available?

    There are no guarantees.

  97. 97
    debbie says:

    @Baud:

    He’s far from alone here.

  98. 98
    Baud says:

    Bernie!

    Sen. Jeff Merkley, D-Ore., joins Morning Joe to discuss his reasons for supporting Bernie Sanders for president. Sen. Merkley is thus far the first senator to endorse Sanders.

  99. 99
    Betty Cracker says:

    Annnnd, the misogynistic ass-cyst goes bye-bye. We have a high tolerance for cant, dumbassery and swearing (obvs) here at Balloon Juice, but if you can’t make your point without calling women “whores” and “bitches,” take your bullshit elsewhere.

  100. 100
    Baud says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Cuz she’s not here.

  101. 101
    debbie says:

    @Schlemazel (parmesan rancor):

    Part of being an adult is admitting you cannot have it all when it comes to candidates

    And then berating those who disagree with you and hoping the abuse you heap upon them will bring them over to your side. And also bring snacks with them.

  102. 102
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Baud: I believe she’s nocturnal.

  103. 103
    BR says:

    @WereBear:

    I wonder if Warren would consider VP. I actually believe she could get some things done as VP. Whereas Sanders is a bit too disorganized in his thinking — I don’t know if he’d be an asset or a liability as VP.

  104. 104
    Chyron HR says:

    @debbie:

    STOP RESPONDING IN KIND WHEN WE INSULT YOU!!!!!!

    Can you learn a second post? This one is getting kind of boring.

  105. 105
    Baud says:

    @Betty Cracker: But she usually sets up a morning post. Doesn’t she love us anymore?

  106. 106
    debbie says:

    @Chyron HR:

    Can you show me where I’ve done that? I think not. Or do you hate snacks that much?

  107. 107
    BR says:

    @debbie:

    Agreed. It’s not like I’m alone in this — a lot of my family and friends are not particularly excited by either Sanders or Clinton, and it’s not because I tried to persuade them. They will all vote for whomever the nominee is, but that doesn’t mean they’re excited.

  108. 108
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Baud: Good point. I had assumed THIS was the morning thread, but it ain’t…

  109. 109
    Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class says:

    @mclaren:

    He’s not progressive – he’s a fucking moron with some bumper stickers he bleats on a regular basis. In my eyes, a progressive can actually, you know, achieve something instead of spouting the nonsensical.

    Since you are so very fluent in moron, however, maybe you speak a common tongue with Sanders.

  110. 110
    WereBear says:

    @BR: Are you familiar with Bernie’s work in Burlington, VT? He transformed a rundown waterfront into a thriving commerce and tourist attraction, combining both parties in a success story which is continuing to grow.

    I think Bernie is unfairly dinged as an Independent. Yes, that has a bad connotation when it is used by Republicans who are ashamed of their party, yet still won’t switch. However, it has a long history in Vermont, as a semi-party, where it bestows flexibility.

  111. 111
    debbie says:

    @BR:

    I wish you luck. I have to get to work, but I’m sure you’ll get all kinds of unreasonable posts.

  112. 112
    Kay says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    There’s more evidence of “generational imprinting” voting than there is for “life-cycle variant voting”. In other words, Reagan voters at 20 will tend to stay further Right and Sanders voters at 20 will tend to stay further Left, so if the youngsters are further Left when they start that’s a good thing.

    It’s coming across Party lines, too. Younger Republicans are less conservative now than older Republicans. Hopefully the whole group shifts Left. Just shift the whole scale.

  113. 113
    BR says:

    Comment box is eating comments…

  114. 114
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Kay: FWIW, my anecdata confirms the trend. Even the spawn of evangelical, gun-nut households in my wingnut neck o’ the woods tend to be pro-gay rights and seem less racist than their parents.

  115. 115
    Baud says:

    @Kay: Do those studies experiment with less popular presidents? Reagan, unfortunately, was pretty popular across the board at the time.

  116. 116
    BR says:

    @Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class:

    I hate to defent mclaren because most comments are a ranty and out there, but mclarens detailed comments above actually make sense — automation and related issues are real and are not being addressed by anyone. Where I disagree with mclaren is that Sanders is a better bet — I don’t see any indication that he understands those challenges any better than Clinton.

  117. 117
    WereBear says:

    @Betty Cracker: Which is amazing, because that tends to be a culture that embeds itself in concrete and then pours polyethylene over itself. Faulkner nailed it generations ago.

    They are still mentally fighting a war that was lost so loooooong ago…

  118. 118
    Weaselone says:

    @WereBear:
    That’s really the stuff I wish he would talk more about. The problem is that the effort probably required a big assist by local and national big businesses to get done. He can’t get into it because the details are probably couterfactual to his big banks destroy our economy…millionaires and billionaires yada, yada,yada.

  119. 119
    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Hope it goes well M^4. Good luck!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  120. 120
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Baud: One of those Boomers.

    (I used to see the “Tom and Jane Show, with special guest Caesar” back in college.(Tom and his wife, Jane Fonda would come and speak and bring Caesar Chavez with them).)

  121. 121
    Betty Cracker says:

    @WereBear: And yet just during my lifetime, I’ve seen remarkable progress. It’s easy to overlook that sometimes, when so much awfulness still exists. But we’re making progress.

  122. 122
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @WereBear: The knock I have on Bernie’s “Independent” status is that one person working by himself can get nothing done, he will need a loyal party backing him, one that he has supported for a long time. In this day and age of scorched earth politics from the party of the anti-Christ it is even more important. But Bernie holds himself above such pettiness as helping to elect others.

    That will tell when the chips are down.

  123. 123
    Chyron HR says:

    @debbie:

    Well, I would cite the post in which one of your BernieBesties was calling a Clinton supporter “ass-wipe” and “dipshit”, but apparently it’s deleted. So I guess you’d argue that by being so vile that their posts get deleted, Sanders supporters somehow swing all the way back around to being civil?

  124. 124
    Schlemazel (parmesan rancor) says:

    @debbie:
    Who insulted anyone? I was agreeing that there are no perfect candidates. Anything eles is you interpretation

  125. 125
    Weaselone says:

    @BR:

    Nobody’s really addressing them and I doubt anyone will. This country just is not in a place socially, economically and politically where we can deal with humans being rendered increasingly unnecessary as producers and service providers within the economy, to say nothing of the possibility of creating a self improving super AI within the next 50 years.

  126. 126
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @WereBear:

    Are you familiar with Bernie’s work in Burlington, VT? He transformed a rundown waterfront into a thriving commerce and tourist attraction, combining both parties in a success story which is continuing to grow.

    And such portions!

    The municipal population was 42,211 according to a 2014 US Census Estimate (Wiki).

  127. 127
    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet says:

    @Xboxershorts:

    But I do have fears about the level of acrimony that the GOP will bring to a Clinton Democratic Administration. The hate they hold is palpable, even if it’s based upon fabricated bullshit.

    I have similar fears at times, but then I think back on the last, oh 50 years or so…

    JFK was a prisoner of the Vatican. LBJ was soft on Communism (and a you-know-who lover) and bankrupted the country with the War on Poverty. Carter was a wimp and broke the economy with his taxes and spending on Human Rights stuff. Clinton was a lying horn-dog who “trashed the place and it wasn’t even his place”. Obama destroyed the economy, took everyone’s guns away, increased everyone’s taxes, took away everyone’s doctor with Obamacare, tore down the border and let the Illegals take over, wasn’t even born in the USA and isn’t a Christian!!11.

    As you say, the GOP makes stuff up to get people riled up in the gut. They can’t argue policy differences because that’s always a losing strategy for them. It’s what they do.

    We should vote for the person that we think does the best job in advancing the policies we want. Yeah, the GOP will oppose them (often for stupid reasons), but an opposition is supposed to have a different viewpoint. (Echo chambers aren’t a good way to run a government either.) Because of that, we want someone who can counter the opposition talking points. HRC can do that, probably better than anyone else on the national stage right now. Bernie has shown too often in this campaign (from his first encounter with BLM when he stormed off the stage, to his fumbling and bumbling about his tax returns) that he has real trouble with that.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  128. 128
    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet says:

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: So we’re back to the “edit and get thrown into moderation” mode again? (All I did was change an italic tag to an emphasis tag.)

    :-(

    Help?

    Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  129. 129
    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet says:

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: Eh? I see the subject post even though the edit window said it was put in moderation. Weird…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  130. 130
    Baud says:

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: I think the author of the comment sees it while in moderation, but it’s invisible to everyone else.

  131. 131
    Kay says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    I’ve found that, too. I like that my 13 year old son and his friends seem to think “hating”(being a hater) is uncool. It’s such a nice way for that crowd mentality to materialize.

  132. 132
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @WereBear:

    Which is why Bernie for Veep is my dream. He could Get Things Done in the Biden mode

    I’m a Bernie skeptic for many reasons, but even if I liked the guy more than I do I’d think this was a bad idea. Bernie’s strength is being a gadfly and a pest. That’s not the VP role. The modern VP is either the heir apparent (Gore, Quayle, Bush) or the person who cajoles and/or enforces for the president’s priorities (Cheney, Biden). Sanders would do much more good for progressivism on the outside, tubthumping, now that he’s shown that people pay attention to the things he says.

  133. 133
    Kay says:

    @Baud:

    I’ve said this before so I don’t want to keep harping on it, but Presidents are relative. Experience is relative. To my daughter, Obama is a centrist, because she’s not comparing him to Reagan or GWB. He is her status quo as President.

    We simply can’t ignore their lived experience. It’s real. She is comparing Obama to Sanders or Clinton, not Bush.

  134. 134
    Baud says:

    @Kay: Right. But young people get older and gain more experience. You said studies indicate that people don’t significantly change from the political views they have when they are young and used Reagan as an example. I was essentially asking if you knew how rigorous those studies were, because Reagan seems to be an outlier example (as FDR would have been) because of his immense popularity.

  135. 135
    Kay says:

    @Baud:

    I don’t think “outliers” has that much validity in Presidents because there are so few Presidents. An “outlier” is more than enough when we’re talking about so few people who are Presidents.

  136. 136
    WereBear says:

    @Weaselone: Ironically, I have heard for years that “we need to have a simple message we can hammer over and over” because let’s face it, that does work well.

    And then a candidate pops up who focuses on that, and so few are truly happy :)

    FWIW, I am a bit of a Marxist when it comes to economics — it is a helluva big lever, perhaps the biggest. Racism, sexism, and all the other dividers are merely tools in the hands of the people who want all the money.

    Follow The Money. Yes. We should.

  137. 137
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Kay: She sees Obama as in the middle of a Sanders to Cruz spectrum?

  138. 138
    WereBear says:

    @FlipYrWhig: Things can be scaled. It’s what they do.

  139. 139
    ThresherK (GPad) says:

    @FlipYrWhig: Same here. Thinking of RR & GHWB as fence-mending, but it also passed the “get an establishment guy to back up the new outsider” test.

  140. 140
    oldgold says:

    Given the economic carnage at the end of W’s administration, I was amazed at how quickly the GOP recovered to take the House in 2010. Astounding.

  141. 141
    Baud says:

    @Kay: The flip side is that, because there are so few presidents, we can’t reliably say how youthful voting habits change as the kids grow older.

    In any event, if current polls hold, Sanders won’t get the nomination, so you can’t compare his voters to Reagan.

  142. 142
    Baud says:

    @oldgold: Same here.

  143. 143
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @oldgold: Racists are reliable voters.

  144. 144
    Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class says:

    @BR:

    The problem with mclaren isn’t the two out of three things s/he gets very right. It’s the batshit crazy third, stated with a flaming verbosity that could fill the Hindenberg.

  145. 145
    Mike J says:

    @Kay:

    To my daughter, Obama is a centrist, because she’s not comparing him to Reagan or GWB. He is her status quo as President.

    We simply can’t ignore their lived experience. It’s real. She is comparing Obama to Sanders or Clinton, not Bush.

    Her lived experience also includes books. She’s wrong, and pretending she’s right just because that’s all she’s seen firsthand isn’t good for anybody.

  146. 146
    jonas says:

    @Elizabelle: Some countries do issue “special edition” currency to honor noteworthy individuals. The problem is that because the $US is used so widely worldwide, you can’t just print special editions without running into all sorts of headaches with fraud and counterfeiting. Will people in a bazaar in Nairobi know that a real $10 bill now has Francis Perkins on it? Or will they accept one with Michelle Obama, assuming that’s it’s real? That’s why the Treasury doesn’t want to mess with the 20, despite it having asshole Andrew Jackson on it — along with the $100 Franklin bill, it’s the most recognizable piece of currency in the world.

  147. 147
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @WereBear:

    Racism, sexism, and all the other dividers are merely tools in the hands of the people who want all the money.

    Wow, I _strenuously_ disagree with that. And I think the biggest flaw in Bernie Sanders’s flawed campaign career is that he believes it.

  148. 148
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Kay:

    To my daughter, Obama is a centrist, because she’s not comparing him to Reagan or GWB. He is her status quo as President.

    I don’t think “centrist” and “status quo” are the same thing, though. Don’t “-ist” structures presume isms?

  149. 149
    bystander says:

    @BR:

    Um, not a great counterargument.

    According to you.

    There is no perfect candidate. And there is no escaping the reality of a repub-blockaded Congress and a press just waiting to launch in-depth investigations into which Socialist Sanders most resembles, Engels or Trotsky.

  150. 150
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @BR:

    The key for me is to see a candidate who 1) articulates at a gut level some of the problems that are going on (I’ll give Sanders a bit more credit here than Clinton), 2) understands beyond a gut level what’s going on (here Clinton wins, though she is still advancing a bit too much 1990s “opportunity agenda” for me), and 3) lays out a specific path to getting there (Clinton wins here again, but with a much narrower set of goals). My problem is that neither candidate nails all three.

    Has there ever been a candidate who nailed all three? If not, why not?

  151. 151
  152. 152
    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet says:

    @Baud: Yup. (I didn’t check the post closely enough.)

    Glad it’s out now. Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  153. 153
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @BR: I don’t remember Obama laying out specific paths to anything. More importantly, though: Obama’s candidacy was REALLY different from anyone else’s candidacy, and it doesn’t seem fair to find the current crop lacking by comparison, because everyone before and everyone since is going to be lacking by comparison too. It’d be like saying, well, sure, they’re a good basketball team, but they’re not the Golden State Warriors, and that’s dispiriting.

  154. 154
    Paul in KY says:

    @gene108: Eleanor or Ms. Perkins would be wonderful.

  155. 155
    different-church-lady says:

    @FlipYrWhig: The trouble is that both can be true: some people are genuinely racist for no greater reason, and some people use racism as a tool for other purposes. Some people do both.

    I agree with you about Sanders, though. It’s not that he doesn’t have a valid point — it’s that he thinks his point lives in rarefied isolation from all the other points in the world.

  156. 156
    Paul in KY says:

    @different-church-lady: We got Reagan, that’s who we got.

  157. 157
    different-church-lady says:

    @Betty Cracker: When the ‘eff did we start caring about the truth in these kinds of discussions?

  158. 158
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @different-church-lady: Fair enough. But there was obviously no shortage of racism, misogyny, and xenophobic violence before there were rich people manipulating politics and media. Wealthy meddling can amplify preexisting hatreds and spread hateful messages more widely, but wealth didn’t cook up hatred as a divide and conquer strategy.

  159. 159
    different-church-lady says:

    @different-church-lady: Let me clarify my #55: when I said “brilliant counter-point” I did mean it as “genuinely insightful thought”. I meant it as “a kinda simple-minded way of looking at things that is useful on in the sense that it proves the counter-example as also being simple-minded.”

  160. 160
    cleek says:

    @WereBear:

    Are you familiar with Bernie’s work in Burlington, VT?

    Burlington, VT – 15 sq miles, population of 40K? an isolated, very idiosyncratic city small enough to fit into the Carrier Dome with enough space left over for all the GOP and Democratic delegates ?

  161. 161
    Steeplejack says:

    What happened to Cole’s Twitter feed down the right side? It seems to have disappeared. There is a link to “Tweets by @Johngcole,” but it goes to a different account.

  162. 162
    different-church-lady says:

    @FlipYrWhig: The think about humans is (a) they’re going to use all the tools available to them, (b) if that isn’t enough, they’re going to invent new tools, and [c] they can figure out a way to use anything as a tool.

    In other words, we are endlessly creative in our awfulness.

  163. 163
    different-church-lady says:

    @WereBear:

    Are you familiar with Bernie’s work in Burlington, VT? He transformed a rundown waterfront into a thriving commerce and tourist attraction, combining both parties in a success story which is continuing to grow.

    I am in fact. And while it is extremely better than what his predecessor had in mind, and a substantial improvement over what was there, it ain’t exactly “all that” either.

  164. 164
    ruemara says:

    @WereBear: May I ask how Sanders is unfairly dinged as an independent, when he’s been an Independent for decades, rails against both parties and has said he only joined the Democratic party to use it’s funds and structure to run for president? Because that seems critical. If I am also to look at Senator Sanders’ time in VT, then the words of AA community leaders who say he ignored them and the community’s concerns would be very concerning to me. Not saying he didn’t create a nice district, but he didn’t do it while being a Dem.

  165. 165
    different-church-lady says:

    @different-church-lady:

    I meant it as “a kinda simple-minded way of looking at things that is useful on in the sense that it proves the counter-example as also being simple-minded.”

    “…useful only in the sense that…”

  166. 166
    cleek says:

    @Kay:
    and if she’s lucky, she won’t be able to compare Obama to Trump.

  167. 167
    El Caganer says:

    @Schlemazel (parmesan rancor): Yes, but at least he’s a Maker, not a Taker.

  168. 168
    Tobie says:

    @BR: To add to this theme…it would be great to have a discussion of what can be done about manufacturing in the US given the triple whammy of automation, shipping, and globalization. FWIW this was the reason I switched from supporting Bernie to supporting Hillary. I just thought she had a much sense better of the challenges facing labor and more concrete ideas about how to revive manufacturing than Bernie. His is a Manichean world and it’s very satisfying to split the world this way, especially if you’re on the side of the “good.” It’s rhetorically effective to demonize interest groups–most of which are deserving of harsh rebuke–but as a policy approach it’s toxic.

  169. 169
    Elizabelle says:

    @jonas: That’s a great point (about maintaining recognizable US currency for foreign use).

    I remember the story of some guest paying for drinks with Monopoly money when the euro went into use …

  170. 170
    rikyrah says:

    IZombie ROCKED last night!!!

  171. 171
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Tobie: It’s easy to claim to be virtuous if your virtue is never tested. And in Vermont, political virtue is never tested by “special interests.” Must be nice.

  172. 172
    ruemara says:

    @rikyrah: Didn’t it though? I haven’t seen an episode of Agents of Shield since that show came on. And that ending! Poor Rob Thomas.

  173. 173
    rikyrah says:

    @BR:

    She should be way better at this than she is (and I don’t mean just her, but her plus her entire staff / operation)

    She kept a lot of the incompetent sycophants from 2008, because she wants the sychophants. They didn’t think that they needed to learn anything from the Obama operation. Part of their arrogance.

  174. 174
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @rikyrah: Which incompetent sycophants do you mean? I haven’t heard a peep out of all of the characters we loved to hate in 2008, like Mark Penn or Lanny Davis.

  175. 175
    Germy Shoemangler says:

    @FlipYrWhig: Robby Mook seems pretty sharp and competent.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robby_Mook

  176. 176
    Paul in KY says:

    @FlipYrWhig: I want him as veep to get his true believers to vote in November. He can resign afterwards, if he wishes.

  177. 177
    japa21 says:

    @Germy Shoemangler: I think her campaign this year is vastly superior to 2008. She is staying within the lines, is staying positive, not going negative like she did in 2008 or Sanders is this year.
    If one of her surrogates steps out of line, including Bill, she is quick to either correct it or point out that she does not necessarily feel the same way.
    If she had been this steady in 2008, instead of panicking and going super negative, things might have turned out differently. But then, I think we lucked out the way it ended up.
    I also think she has matured a lot in a political sense and I think her time with Obama has helped change her viewpoint on a lot of things.
    In 2008, if she had won, I would have voted for her, but reluctantly. This year, I can enthusiastically support her. If Sanders, through some miracle, pulls this out, I will vote for him.

  178. 178
    Germy Shoemangler says:

    @japa21: Excellent points, well said. I agree about 2008 and 2016.

  179. 179
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Mustang Bobby: My favorite Broadway musical. Well, that and “1776”.

  180. 180
    japa21 says:

    @Paul in KY: In 2008. when Obama did not pick Clinton for VP, there was a lot of yelling and complaining from Clinton supporters saying they would stay away from the polls because he had insulted her by not picking her. Obviously, primarily due to her being so supportive of his candidacy and because of the McCain/Palin ticket, that didn’t happen.

    The same should apply this year if Sanders means what he has said about supporting her if she wins.

  181. 181
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Germy Shoemangler: I said a few weeks back that Mook would be a great DNC chair. I’m wondering who rikyrah has in mind as symptomatic of the Clinton campaign’s reliance on the same old “sycophantic” advisors who allegedly learned nothing from 2008. The only name coming to mind is David Brock. Unlike BR and rikyrah, I haven’t found the Clinton ’16 to be dull or lackluster. The candidate herself isn’t a thrill a minute kind of person, but few are, even in politics. I don’t see what there is to complain about.

  182. 182
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @japa21: I’m going to assume that Sanders doesn’t want to be VP. The role would defang everything he claims to want to accomplish in politics. If I were Team Clinton, after clinching I’d work with Team Sanders to set up a story where he was asked but said he couldn’t accept it because his mission is to lead an outsider movement of blah blah blah. That way he and his people can feel like they resisted being seduced into the Establishment, but their energy can still be productive for Democrats and their turnout on Election Day.

  183. 183
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @FlipYrWhig: I suspect every time HRC hears/reads the words “David Brock said today…”, she cringes, at least inwardly. I suspect Bubba thinks, “about time somebody stood up for me I mean us I mean her….”

  184. 184
    Germy Shoemangler says:

    Cartoon: Hillary vs. Bernie NY Primary:
    http://www.newyorker.com/magaz.....n-new-york

  185. 185
    Paul in KY says:

    @japa21: That’s why I want him inside the tent pissing out.

  186. 186
    Germy Shoemangler says:

    @FlipYrWhig: Mook would be an excellent DNC chair. I’d love to see that happen

  187. 187
    Germy Shoemangler says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    @japa21: I’m going to assume that Sanders doesn’t want to be VP.

    Maybe I’m wrong, but don’t candidates follow the “balance the ticket” rule? A young, ethnic VP to balance HRC?

  188. 188
  189. 189
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @kc: terrible response

    Still doesn’t make Bernie! a viable general election candidate.

  190. 190
    kc says:

    I see little evidence that HRC has “learned from her mistakes ” (nice talking point!).

    How damn long did it take her to (grudgingly) acknowledge that invading Iraq was a mistake? Even now she doesn’t really take any responsibility.

    Shit, I think she’d do it again if she thought she could get away with it.

  191. 191
    japa21 says:

    @FlipYrWhig: I think your use of the term defang is perfect. Sanders has some great thoughts. The likelihood of his being able to actually accomplish anything is actually greater with him in the Senate than it would be with him as VP.

  192. 192
    Kropadope says:

    Nice to see the usual members of the “Kick ’em while they’re down” caucus still got their assholes in full gear.

  193. 193
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Germy Shoemangler: Most commonly, yes, but Bill CIinton smashed that rule to pieces by picking someone very like himself.

    I’ve never heard it explained this way, but IMHO Obama didn’t pick Hillary in 2008 because it would have been too strong a declaration that Hillary was next in line, and the party didn’t want to go all in with that just yet. That’s the risk of going with the heir-apparent strategy: it puts a thumb on the scale for the next election. My prediction is that Hillary picks someone who says in advance that he or she has no interest in running as the successor. That way the Struggle For The Soul Of The Democratic Party can continue to unfold for 4 or 8 years, which is what I think the Bernie faction wants.

  194. 194
    Chyron HR says:

    @kc:

    And really, when you consider that she was the mastermind behind everything that you didn’t like about the Clinton AND Bush administrations, is it really legal to let her have ANOTHER eight years in office?

  195. 195
    Kropadope says:

    @japa21:

    I think her campaign this year is vastly superior to 2008. She is staying within the lines, is staying positive, not going negative like she did in 2008 or Sanders is this year.

    HahahahahahahaHaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

  196. 196
    gwangung says:

    @Kropadope: Yes, we’re all sadistic bastards at heart.

  197. 197
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Kropadope: Reality does indeed bite sometimes.

    I only wish I could offer you a cookie

  198. 198
    Kropadope says:

    @different-church-lady:

    When the ‘eff did we start caring about the truth in these kinds of discussions?

    I think the more relevant question is when you stopped.

  199. 199
    Chyron HR says:

    @Kropadope:

    Oh wow, the guy who pledged to support Trump if Clinton gets the nomination doesn’t approve of her campaign? Thanks for sharing your entirely unbiased opinion, kid.

  200. 200
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    If Bernie!, never mind his supporters, really thinks that HRC has gone negative on him, he’s even less prepared for a real election than I thought. He really needs staff besides Jane, bitter grifter Tad Devine, and the histrionic Comic Book Guy.

  201. 201
    Barbara says:

    @Baud: Among other things, he was part of the “Chicago Eight” (which included Abbey Hoffman) that played a pivotal role in the 1968 Chicago Democratic convention debacle. He was controversial for visiting North Vietnam along with his then wife — you might have heard of her — Jane Fonda. IIRC, he ran for governor of California and after all the chaos of the 1960s, settled down to become a thoughtful and politically activist writer and academic. The article is long, with a lot of “on the one hand, on the other hand,” but comes down in favor of solidarity based on racial grounds. It’s a little discursive and probably won’t do much to persuade many Sanders supporters (of which I am not one) but it’s worth a read.

  202. 202
    dogwood says:

    @Germy Shoemangler:
    Mook as DNC chair? I doubt he would be interested. He is a behind the scenes guy. You notice he doesn’t appear on camera or do the cable and traditional tv gabfests. It’s a high visibility job. People who project unseen capabilities and ambitions on others are bound to be perpetually disappointed.

  203. 203
    Barbara says:

    @different-church-lady: Me too, although I was at the University of Virginia and thought it might not be representative of the culture at large. Turns out, my demographic is likely to be one of the most Republican leaning in all of history. No wonder I have felt like an outsider my whole adult life.

  204. 204
    Kropadope says:

    @Chyron HR:

    Oh wow, the guy who pledged to support Trump

    I did no such thing.

  205. 205
    Kay says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    She doesn’t think Obama is the most liberal President imaginable. Why would she? She voted for him, he was elected. She also had a different early adult economic experience than I did. At her college graduation in the midst of the crash the speaker was basically saying “the world is collapsing- but go find opportunity! Good luck!” These are just facts.
    I don’t know why we can’t give them their lived reality, especially when we’re demanding they accept ours.

  206. 206
    Barbara says:

    @FlipYrWhig: Well, not “never.” It’s tested by legislation on firearms.

  207. 207
    Germy Shoemangler says:

    @dogwood:

    People who project unseen capabilities and ambitions on others are bound to be perpetually disappointed.

    You’ve explained my perpetual disappointment perfectly

  208. 208
    Kropadope says:

    @Barbara: Allowing, of course, for the possibility of actual differences of opinion.

  209. 209
  210. 210
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Kropadope: Are you sure ? it was a long and incoherent screed, with I suspect more than a bit of /glug glug glug/ serving as your muse. You definitely declared your eagerness to see it all burn down if you can’t have Bernie!

  211. 211
    Barbara says:

    @FlipYrWhig: It’s also quite likely that Clinton did not WANT to be VP — having watched what happened to Gore, but wanted substance and visibility, which she clearly got through being SOS. SOS also solidified her stature among African Americans, I believe, because of how publicly she supported Obama and tried to make him successful.

  212. 212
    Elie says:

    @Kropadope:

    So what about those tax returns for Mr. Purity — model for all progressives? And how about his inability to defend or argue successfully for breaking up the banks, etc during an interview for which he should have been well prepared. And what about that invitation to the Vatican to pontificate to the pontiff?

    That’s Bernie, man. All hat…… as they say…

  213. 213
    Kropadope says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I don’t drink, period. Beyond that, I’m accepting the inevitable decline of the USA that a Clinton/Trump race would engender.

  214. 214
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Elie: Details have a well-known Establishment bias.

  215. 215
    Barbara says:

    @Kropadope: An allowance that seems to be extended to Sanders and no one else.

  216. 216
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Kropadope: Even if you give Hillary Clinton no benefit of any doubt, politically, pretty much ever, I don’t see how her candidacy is any more disheartening than Kerry ’04 or Gore ’00. At worst she’s prosaic with a handful of gaffes and a checkered record by liberal litmus tests. That would put her squarely in line with Democrats since FDR, with the signal exception of Obama. This gloom is far beyond what’s warranted _even if you don’t much like her_.

  217. 217
    Kropadope says:

    @Elie: Let’s take this one at a time. I’ll start by noting I’m not honestly too familiar with the tax return issue, so I’ll leave that alone for the time being.

    As far as breaking up the banks; for all the furor, much analysis I’ve read has supported his central assertions. It will likely require legislation. Failing legislation, there are two administrative avenues to explore, through the Fed and through the Cabinet. While the administrative approach could encourage banks to break up simply by making it uncomfortable to exist at their systemically perilous size, this approach may not stand up to legal challenges. Therefore, trying to dissolve the TBTF entities legislatively would be the preferred approach.

    Also, if you’re mad about the head of a now mathematically improbable campaign taking some time to go to the Vatican for what I assume to be the satisfaction of intellectual curiosity as far as hearing a very popular Pope address whatever the fuck it was that Vatican organization invited him to, you’re spending too much time circle jerking to photos of Hillary on Balloon Juice. Go outside, get some fresh air.

  218. 218
    Brachiator says:

    @Barbara:

    It’s also quite likely that Clinton did not WANT to be VP — having watched what happened to Gore, but wanted substance and visibility, which she clearly got through being SOS.

    HA HA HA HA HA. This is so funny. Of course, Hillary (and many of her supporters) wanted the VP slot. Not only would it have been a position of visibility, but it would have been a stronger lock on becoming Obama’s successor. And the idea that she (and her husband) could want or demand anything speaks volumes about her political ambitions.

    Note that I do not think it bad or wrong that HRC had political ambitions. And clearly so kind of deal was made in order to make sure that the Clintons would actively campaign for Obama.

    SOS also solidified her stature among African Americans, I believe, because of how publicly she supported Obama and tried to make him successful.

    I had not considered this angle before; I think that there is something to it. This may have helped her build a bond with African Americans that was independent of her husband’s appeal to African Americans.

  219. 219
    Elie says:

    @Kropadope:

    And if Bernie is such a poor man, why list all his assets under his wife’s name? (This from a summary not actual returns back in January). You know, they can hide a lot of stuff under his wife’s name that no one can actually dredge up. Why do that though, if you have modest means and have nothing to hide? And again, where are those tax returns from Mr Clean? Had poor Jane go on another news program to plead the unlikely issue that she couldn’t print his most recent returns, (or apparently any others) on the Turbo Tax software they use. Really? That is just not true. So what gives?

  220. 220
    Kropadope says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    Even if you give Hillary Clinton no benefit of any doubt, politically, pretty much ever, I don’t see how her candidacy is any more disheartening than Kerry ’04 or Gore ’00

    I didn’t vote for Kerry, couldn’t have voted for Gore (though I suspect I would have). I can forgive a lot, but the made for TV dishonesty that the Democrats are embracing which literally emblemizes what I see as the primary problem with the Republicans is something I can’t take. Besides which, the Democrats are disappointing me at all levels right now, my junior senator who’s up for reelection this year is pretty much a bump on a log hoping to get by on copying Elizabeth Warren’s homework. There are worse approaches he could take, I suppose, but still… And don’t get me started on the DNC.

  221. 221
    Elie says:

    @Kropadope:

    You need to familiarize yourself with all the issues that have to do with Saint Bernie’s credibility. Maybe you know where his tax returns are and the details of his less than forthright personal finance situation. As for fresh air, I have plenty, thank you.

  222. 222
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Kropadope: I’m accepting the inevitable decline of the USA that a Clinton/Trump race would engender.
    Not a dime’s worth of difference, eh?

    Well, history certainly is on your side.

  223. 223
    Elie says:

    @Kropadope:

    Well your boy jumped onto the Democratic boat pretty quick for such a horrible organization. Why didn’t he do his own perfect thing? Nevermind, forever the opportunist. But ol Bernie boy sure aint working on any of the Democratic downticket. Why? He is not a Democrat and he truly just doesn’t care about actually being able to do anything in the Congress… He just wants to crown himself emperor.

  224. 224
    Kropadope says:

    @Elie: Well, I’ve been taking some time off from the campaign news circuit because it’s stressing me out. I like to stop in here once in a while to stress a few of you out, given that some of you have been the driving forces behind my needed break.

  225. 225
    Kropadope says:

    @Elie: Also, way to ignore the two of the three questions I actually answered.

  226. 226
    Brachiator says:

    @Germy Shoemangler:

    Maybe I’m wrong, but don’t candidates follow the “balance the ticket” rule? A young, ethnic VP to balance HRC?

    Balance the ticket used to mean selecting a VP whose political attributes complemented the presidential candidate. Like picking Texas Senator Lyndon Johnson to help with appeal in the South and other regions of the country. “Balance the ticket” didn’t have much to do with the personal characteristics of the VP candidate.

  227. 227
    Kropadope says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Not a dime’s worth of difference, eh?

    Oh, there’s a difference. Trump will bring this country down way faster, maybe within the space of his own tenure. Hillary will be way more careful making basically the same mistakes.

  228. 228
    Elie says:

    @Kropadope:

    Nah — but the questions I want answered — particularly before we would nominate your boy and have him torn to pieces by the Republicans, are more important. You don’t know the answers and rather than being honest and saying that these are good questions that need to be answered, you deflect to bullshit that matters way less. Again, Bernie has a problem here and you need to stop messing around calling it that — if you have any integrity. He is not pure…. we just don’t know exactly how on a fundamental issue to his credibility — his financial situation. It is clear he is being much less than straightforward about it. Aren’t you curious why?

  229. 229
  230. 230
    Kropadope says:

    @kc: He also does the DSCC fundraiser every year, but you think people are gonna let little things like facts stop them?

  231. 231
    eemom says:

    @Kropadope:

    Also, if you’re mad about the head of a now mathematically improbable campaign taking some time to go to the Vatican for what I assume to be the satisfaction of intellectual curiosity as far as hearing a very popular Pope address whatever the fuck it was that Vatican organization invited him to, you’re spending too much time circle jerking to photos of Hillary on Balloon Juice. Go outside, get some fresh air.

    Jayzus, what a howler. You evidently know even less about this clusterfuck than you do about the tax returns. For one thing, the Pope isn’t even going to be in the country while Bernie’s sitting in the back row watching some cardinals do a power point.

    couldn’t have voted for Gore

    Explains a lot.

  232. 232
    Kropadope says:

    Person opposed to influence of money in politics doesn’t do enough $10,000/plate fundraiser dinners. Scandal!!!

    Also, gesture with an upraised thumb while making a point=leader.

    Gesture with an index finger=sexist.

  233. 233
    Germy Shoemangler says:

    @Brachiator:

    “Balance the ticket” didn’t have much to do with the personal characteristics of the VP candidate.

    But wasn’t LBJ the opposite of JFK in terms of personal characteristics?

  234. 234
    Paul in KY says:

    @FlipYrWhig: I wouldn’t put JFK on that list.

  235. 235
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Kropadope: You didn’t answer either one, On banks you basically rearranged some words to repeat Bernie!’s “well, we’ll figure it out somehow”, and on the Vatican question… well, I don’t really care.

    @Elie: Well, I’ve been taking some time off from the campaign news circuit because it’s stressing me out.

    So…. Like Bernie!, you’re ready for the rough and tumble of a campaign as long as no one pushes back.

    @Kropadope: He goes to a party? Once a year? My god, why will the haters not see he has single-handedly built the national party!

  236. 236
    Kropadope says:

    @eemom: Again, I’ve not been following the campaign closely the last couple weeks, all I remember were people here and their dumb-ass conjecture about Bernie going to make a scene and get an audience with the pope.
    So, the pope won’t be there. Fine. That makes it seem even more likely to me that he is going to satisfy intellectual curiosity and may not be 100% focused on his moribund campaign.

  237. 237
    Paul in KY says:

    @Kropadope: Suppose you would have voted for Gore over Batshit McChimpy. Wow, what a liberal…

  238. 238
    different-church-lady says:

    @Kropadope: You’re slowly moving from the ANNOYING to the CUTE space on the playing board.

  239. 239
    Kropadope says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    He goes to a party? Once a year? My god, why will the haters not see he has single-handedly built the national party!

    One example, in addition to the one provided by the person I was responding to. I’ve linked to other candidates he’s supported in the past. He also fairly reliably supports the Democratic party’s initiatives; moreso, in fact, than some registered Democrats.

  240. 240
    Elie says:

    @kc:

    Glad to know that. Truly.

    Do you know when he is going to release his tax returns?

  241. 241
    Elie says:

    Gotta step away but I am lookin for kc and krapadope to do a little homework before they come back ….

  242. 242
    different-church-lady says:

    Yesterday I found myself thinking, “You know those guys who go around saying, ‘They’re all crooks, throw ’em all out of office!’ The hardcore Bernie fans are like the liberal version of that.”

    This recent developments on this thread are doing nothing to dissuade me from that thought.

  243. 243
    Kropadope says:

    @Elie: My workload is pretty heavy. Besides which, you blithely dismiss what I have to say when I am familiar with the issue at hand, so why should I put in any effort for your smug, condescending ass?

  244. 244
    Kropadope says:

    @different-church-lady: Well, back when I was saying I would support Hillary, you chimps were still making every effort to find reason to fling poo in my direction.

    Hell, this could all be an elaborate ruse. I could be way in the tank for Hillary, but am determined to make a certain few people here miserable.

  245. 245
    Germy Shoemangler says:

    @Kropadope:

    determined to make a certain few people here miserable.

    thank you for your service.

  246. 246
    Brachiator says:

    @Germy Shoemangler: RE: “Balance the ticket” didn’t have much to do with the personal characteristics of the VP candidate.

    But wasn’t LBJ the opposite of JFK in terms of personal characteristics?

    I don’t think that there is a single newspaper from that time, not even the National Enquirer, that wrote anything like “Mr Kennedy, the young Bostonian, picked an old white dude to be his running mate so that the contrast would stand out on the election trail.”

    Or LBJ and Hubert Humphrey. Old white dude with hair and old white dude, balding with a big forehead.

    But Humphrey had tried and failed to get the presidential nomination before, was very ambitious, and was on record as saying that he saw becoming VP as a way to gain the visibility for a future presidential bid.

  247. 247
    Aqualad08 says:

    Trump will bring this country down way faster, maybe within the space of his own tenure. Hillary will be way more careful making basically the same mistakes.

    Supreme Court. One open seat and three justices born in the FDR administration. That alone makes your argument invalid.

  248. 248
    John D says:

    @Kropadope: I’m shocked you aren’t trying to charge all of us rent, for taking up so much room in your brainmeats.

    Your vote is yours. Vote for whoever you want and stop trying to foist off your choices and their consequences onto anyone else. “Look what they made me do” isn’t an excuse that works beyond the age of 5. Grow up. Do your civic duty. Vote. And own the results like an adult.

  249. 249
    Barbara says:

    @Brachiator: I have read articles on the subject of her appeal to minorities and many African Americans have made the point explicitly. And no, I don’t know that I agree with you that Clinton wanted the VP slot. I don’t know, of course, but I can see your argument as well as mine.

  250. 250
    burnspbesq says:

    @mclaren:

    why should I fvck myself

    You might enjoy it. And the rest of us would surely enjoy your absence.

  251. 251
    Brachiator says:

    Meanwhile, Obama, that centrist who is worse than any Republican, keeps doing interestingly compassionate stuff.

    Why Obama is forgiving the student loans of nearly 400,000 people

    The Department of Education will send letters to 387,000 people they’ve identified as being eligible for a total and permanent disability discharge, a designation that allows federal student loan borrowers who can’t work because of a disability to have their loans forgiven. The borrowers identified by the Department won’t have to go through the typical application process for receiving a disability discharge, which requires sending in documented proof of their disability. Instead, the borrower will simply have to sign and return the completed application enclosed in the letter.

    Goddam, I am going to miss my president when his term is over.

    Now, back to our regularly scheduled program, “Wicked Hillary v Saint Bernie and his Purity Pony.”

  252. 252
    Paul in KY says:

    @Kropadope: You seem to be doing a bang-up job on that :-)

  253. 253
    different-church-lady says:

    @John D:

    Your vote is yours. Vote for whoever you want and stop trying to foist off your choices and their consequences onto anyone else. “Look what they made me do” isn’t an excuse that works beyond the age of 5. Grow up. Do your civic duty. Vote. And own the results like an adult.

    Can we have that engraved on a bronze plaque and mounted somewhere?

  254. 254
    different-church-lady says:

    @Kropadope: Anti-social networking is a brave new world.

  255. 255
    eemom says:

    @Kropadope:

    That makes it seem even more likely to me that he is going to satisfy intellectual curiosity and may not be 100% focused on his moribund campaign.

    Sorry, but this is so fucking hilarious I had to repost it by itself, such that it may bask in the full glory of its splendiferous stupidity.

    His campaign is moribund. He’s not dropping out though. Instead, he decided that the eve of the primaries in two major states was the perfect time for a little R&R to brush up on his Catholic.

    You slay me.

  256. 256
    CONGRATULATIONS! says:

    I am enjoying watching Hastert’s lawyers trying to get him out of the shit pit he’s worked himself into. The man is utterly vile.

    Judge looks like he’s not happy with the plea deal and Hastert may do some time.

  257. 257
    Paul in KY says:

    @eemom: At least he admitted it was moribund. That’s better than some of the other Bernieaks.

  258. 258
    different-church-lady says:

    @Paul in KY: Sanders’ campaign is quite robust. It’s only his chances of pulling off the upset that are moribund.

  259. 259
    ruemara says:

    Some of you just need to own that you have a strange personal hatred of HRC and be done. And facts don’t respect personal views. It will make life so much easier.

    @John D: this has been the most worthwhile comment. If I could just add, stop letting your personal resentments get in the way.

  260. 260
    kc says:

    @different-church-lady:

    Yes, it’s shameful how the Berniebros behave, whilst the Hillarymen have been civil to a fault.

  261. 261
    kc says:

    @Elie:

    LOL, how pompous of you.

    Perfect HRC supporter.

  262. 262
    different-church-lady says:

    @kc:

    Yes, it’s shameful how the Berniebros behave…

    I would have chosen the word ‘ridiculous’, but hey, you gotta be you.

  263. 263
    Kropadope says:

    @John D: So, does my behavior here equate to my vote or behavior anywhere else? Read what I said more carefully, like I usually have to tell you to do.

  264. 264
    jl says:

    My personal opinion is, I read both interviews and I think the Sanders interview was a clumsy hatchet job and the Hillary Clinton interview was a clumsy puff piece.
    My take away is that Zuckerman really likes Clinton, and was as obtuse and clumsy in putting out a dishonest case for her in his tabloid as he is on various topics in the news talkies he visits.

    Both interviews were informative because of the candidates, not because of the efforts of the Daily News, and I guess a better way for a tabloid to spend its time than venting a very Brit foot fetish over a princess doing a pilgrimage, or certain other NY tabloids that put bald face lies and smears on its front page.

    HRC will probably be the nominee, so if Daily News is all in for her, for the good I suppose. But I found neither interview very impressive.

  265. 265
    John D says:

    @Kropadope: Well, given that you’ve never told me that, I’l take it under advisement.

    Well, back when I was saying I would support Hillary, you chimps were still making every effort to find reason to fling poo in my direction.

    That statement, coupled with your “I’m done with Democrats” schtick, and your incessant “Hillary supporters need to act in a way that doesn’t drive off the Bernie supporters that they will need in the general election” whining makes a tidy little syllogism regarding your vote and blaming thereof.

    If you didn’t intend to lead us all to believe that your assertion is that Hillary supporters drove — I say DROVE — you to abandon her/Democrats/sanity/whateverthefuckitis, perhaps you should be more clear?

  266. 266
    Kropadope says:

    @John D: I’d think “I could still even be completely in the tank for Hillary, but I want to make people here who are assholes miserable” couldn’t be twisted out of context, but you managed to do it. Bravah!!!

    And as far as:

    Well, given that you’ve never told me that

    Re: me telling you to reread what I said, I have. Also, I’ll count the times I told you that you were misinterpreting what I was saying, taking something out of context, or erecting a straw man. It all comes back to “get some reading comprehension skills, clown.”

  267. 267
    John D says:

    @Kropadope: You “could” be.

    You aren’t.

    Like I said, own it. It’s not like we could think less of you.

  268. 268
    chopper says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    This gloom is far beyond what’s warranted _even if you don’t much like her_.

    but what if you hate her with the white-hot intensity of a thousand suns?

Comments are closed.