Bundy Bunch Update

Just a quick Bundy Bunch update for our junkies out there – you know who you are!

We start things off with retiring after his term ends Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid once again making a push to have Gold Butte turned into a National Monument. In a speech on the Senate floor this past week he indicated that now was a good time as the Bundy men were all in jail awaiting their trials for multiple offenses committed in Bunkerville in 2014 and at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in 2016. Carol Bundy, Cliven’s wife, was not amused.  She responded to Senator Reid’s proposal in this Facebook video.

For those of you in the Ohio, Kentucky, West (by God!) Virginia areas (and possibly parts of Indiana and Pennsylvania if you’re willing to schlep that way, the Oathkeepers are opening their own store! Specifically, the Ohio Oathkeepers are opening the Oathkeeper’s Outpost to sell survival and related gear at the Woodland Mall in Bowling Green, Ohio.

Finally, and thanks to terribly in need of professional assistance loyal commenter LAO, here’s Cliven Bundy’s rather uniquely worded pleading to be released on bail.

bail appeal






179 replies
  1. 1
    Friedman says:

    We’re lucky this didn’t turn into Waco or Ruby Ridge.

  2. 2
    scav says:

    Well, somebody learned how to type.

  3. 3
    LAO says:

    Hey, now.

  4. 4
    Ruckus says:

    Not an attorney but I have helped friends study for the bar exam. Also I speak English reasonably well, etc. I have never read anything so idiotic. An attorney with a real license to practice wrote that bail appeal?

  5. 5
    Anya says:

    Adam, we’re all in need of a professional help. Just this morning I was thinking of bugging you for a Ya’ll Queda update.

  6. 6
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    Don’t leave me out of that loyal commenter group, pal. If I still had a PACER account, I’d be sending you those kind of official goodies too.

  7. 7
    Anya says:

    @Ruckus: maybe more of fellow traveler than an attorney?

  8. 8
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Anya: Would’ve been sooner, but its been a busy week. And my allergies have been killing me. The pollen counts here in Florida are off the scale and its been unpleasant as a result.

  9. 9
    LAO says:

    @Anya: thank you.
    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): thank you.

    We are a mighty army!

  10. 10
    Ruckus says:

    @Anya:
    Sounds like fellow inmate.

  11. 11
    LAO says:

    @Ruckus: yes. It is pure awesome!

  12. 12
    Ruckus says:

    @LAO:
    And I’m sure that it will cause a federal judge to damn near die of laughter reading it.

  13. 13
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): I know, but hat tips where hat tips are due.

  14. 14
    Ruckus says:

    @efgoldman:
    ROFLMAO

  15. 15
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @efgoldman: I had a few minutes to kill and it was beginning to look like everyone had abandoned the site, so…

  16. 16
    debbie says:

    The sovereign movement has been going strong in central Ohio for some time. This happened a couple days ago, about a mile from where I live and practically next door to my grade school (also about a couple blocks from the PP center too). Maybe the Oathkeepers should think about setting up a class teaching safety around explosives.

    The local newspeople at first were sure the explosion was due to a meth lab. They seemed disappointed when it turned out to be sovereigns, and now I’m sure, having seen their photos, they’re having a tough time trying to decide who to blame, BLM or Black Panthers.

  17. 17
    japa21 says:

    Bowling Green is in the NW corner of Ohio, so ots closer to IN than West (byGod) Virginia or Pennsylvania.

  18. 18
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    @LAO: And if Steve in the ATL is scarce in these parts because he’s at the Masters, my response will not be polite. I am incapable of golf, but a world class garden admirer.

  19. 19
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @debbie: I saw that. Apparently this group is planning some sort of summit at their new store sometime this summer.

  20. 20
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @japa21: I know, but I wanted to write West (by God) Virginia in a blog post and now I have!

  21. 21
    PsiFighter37 says:

    I hope the Bundys enjoy living the high life in jail.

  22. 22
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    @debbie: TATP seems a particularly stupid choice for DIY explosive making. I have no doubt that the central OH media will find a way to persuasively spin it away from the sovereign types, who tend to look so much more like middle/upper middle suburbanites. Though material choice is totally consistent with sovereign group level judgment and planning.

  23. 23
    LAO says:

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): As a golfer, I’d forgive Steve.

    A few years ago, I was talking to my former boss about the masters. And he asked me whether Augusta had made any changes because the grass looked greener and the water was bluer. I looked at him and asked him whether he’d finally bought an hdtv. The look on his face was priceless.

  24. 24
    Luthe says:

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): The article described them as an isolated cell, which makes it a snap for the lily-white brigade to disown them. “Who, them? They ain’t affiliated with us! They stole our ideas is all.”

  25. 25
    debbie says:

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):

    My favorite part (which was played over and over on the local news) was the call to 911: “Yeah, his hands exploded.”

  26. 26
    Ruckus says:

    @debbie:

    Maybe the Oathkeepers should think about setting up a class teaching safety around explosives.

    I could be wrong but it seems to me that the last people you want teaching about explosives is a bunch of morons running around with their heads up their butts.

  27. 27

    @efgoldman: “The Constitutional Sheriffs” could be the (possibly non-ironic) Band Name of The Week.

  28. 28
    raven says:

    You can’t take movies with an iPod.

  29. 29
    raven says:

    @LAO: It’s in 4K and VR this year.

    Masters Amen Corner in 4K
    Between April 7-10, 2016, Masters Amen Corner in 4K will bring you closer than ever to the beauty and excitement of the Masters Tournament. 4K video is four times the resolution of 1080p HD video. See Amen Corner, the most widely celebrated stretch of holes in golf (Hole Nos. 11, 12 and 13), like you have never seen them before.
    Masters Amen Corner in 4K will be live Thursday and Friday, approximately 10:45 AM – 6:00 PM EDT and 11:45 AM – 6 PM EDT on Saturday/Sunday.
    The live 4K feed can be viewed in two ways:
    DirecTV Satellite TV, with the following requirements:
    A DirecTV Ultimate or Premier package subscription with an authorized 4K customer account
    The latest Genie HD DVR (HR54)
    Either a DirecTV 4K Ready TV or a compatible 4K TV* connected to the latest 4K Genie Mini
    Internet-connected 4K Smart TV, with the following requirements:
    Minimum internet download speed of 25 megabits per second
    Supported internet-connected 4K Smart TV by Samsung or Sony
    (Check your TV’s app store and look for the Masters Amen Corner in 4K app to see if your TV is supported. Masters Amen Corner in 4K is available to view in the United States only.)
    *4K UHD content on a non-DIRECTV 4K Ready TV requires a TV with an HDMI 2.0 compliant interface and HDCP 2.2 content security and a 4K Genie Mini. In addition, your 4K UHD TV must support a minimum of 60 fps.

    Live Virtual Reality Streaming
    Between April 4-10, 2016, experience live action on hole Nos. 6 and 16 in a unique and engaging way. Virtual reality cameras positioned on the tee-boxes and greens of both holes will broadcast live action giving you a front row seat as if you were right behind the ropes. Whether you are watching the fun Monday practice round tradition of players skipping balls on No. 16 or watching Sunday’s drama unfold, the live virtual reality feed presents a new and exciting way to experience the Masters Tournament.
    To experience the Masters Tournament in virtual reality, fans may download the free NextVR app for Gear VR on the Oculus Home app store.
    For more information on live event times and app support, please visit http://www.nextvr.com/gearvr-live-masters2016.
    (Virtual reality streaming is available to view in the United States only

  30. 30

    I perused all 12 pp., as well as Exhibits A & B, but did not find the phrase “P.S.: I am not a crank” anywhere in the filing. How could that happen?

  31. 31
    LAO says:

    @efgoldman: I enjoyed the argument regarding Cliven’s failure to comply with the prior federal orders: he didn’t need to comply because there were no repercussions. But if released on bail, he would comply with that order because the repercussions were explicit.

    Also, like the explanation that he “fired” the BLM.

    Also, probably should have addressed his refusal to enter a plea because he doesn’t accept the jurisdiction of Federal courts.

  32. 32
    Shana says:

    @raven: Yeah, that’s what jumped out at me too. iPhone, sure, iPad definitely, but iPod?

  33. 33

    @Ruckus:

    I could be wrong but it seems to me that the last people you want teaching about explosives is a bunch of morons running around with their heads up their butts.

    That assumes the goal is their well being. If the goal is to induce as much mayhem as possible, introducing morons to explosives seems like an entirely workable plan. The only problem is that it would be very tough on innocent bystanders.

  34. 34
    LAO says:

    This is my favorite paragraph from the Bundy motion

    The government is trying Cliven Bundy in these motions, rather than before a jury of his peers. The government is holding Mr. Bundy in solitary confinement, a man who has never hurt a fly. The government seems to be afraid that it might lose in a jury trial, so it wants to keep him in prison, in solitary confinement, as long as it can, because he, like Nelson Mandela, is a political prisoner. And the government is seeking to have this case declared complex, so that it may lengthen out the time it holds Mr. Bundy in solitary confinement.

  35. 35
    raven says:

    @Shana: Well, the iPod touch has a camera.

  36. 36
    LAO says:

    @efgoldman: He is a freedom fighter, I tell ya, he is.

  37. 37
    Robert Sneddon says:

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): The precursor chemicals for TATP are reasonably easy to get hold of and the resulting compound is very energetic, more so than dynamite so a small amount will make a very large bang.

    The bad news for would-be home chemists is that the process of making it is dangerous as the press report shows, and impurities and other factors (which I will carefully not search for on the internet) can result in an unstable final product. TATP was used in the 2005 bombing attacks in London but there’s some evidence a specialist from Pakistan made the high-quality TATP used by the bombers, who were recruited in England. It may be the Brussels bombers also had specialist help from somewhere like Pakistan, if they also used TATP as has been reported.

  38. 38
    Shana says:

    @raven: I stand corrected. We have an iPod classic, which I know is several generations behind, but didn’t know the touch had a camera.

  39. 39
    WaterGirl says:

    @LAO: That was good for a laugh out loud, thanks.

    I do remember thinking at the time (when I got my HD tv) that people who were depressed needed to upgrade their TVs because the colors were all so bright and happy.

  40. 40
    Bill Arnold says:

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):

    TATP seems a particularly stupid choice for DIY explosive making.

    Wikipedia says that that TATP (Acetone peroxide) is used because (1) ingredients are easy to obtain and (2) it “can pass undetected through scanners designed to detect nitrogenous explosives”
    Downside, it is pretty unstable. I’m lucky I didn’t know about it during childhood….

  41. 41

    Local geography, please. Bowling Green is in the far north-west corner of Ohio, near Indiana and Michigan; not near WV or PA or KY.

  42. 42
    japa21 says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I know you know, but I don’t know how many others know that you know and now they know. You know what I mean?

  43. 43
    raven says:

    @Shana: It just dawned on me too. I bet doofus doesn’t know either way.

  44. 44
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @japa21: They’ll get over it.

  45. 45
    smith says:

    he, like Nelson Mandela, is a political prisoner.

    and, like Nelson Mandela, could tell you all about the Negro.

  46. 46
    🚸 Martin says:

    I’ll toss in an update on an unrelated topic. This will be most relevant to CA residents but should give some insight to other public university systems as well. About a week ago a report came out suggesting that UC was displacing california residents. I was a bit too dismissive of the report at the time, but thought I would summarize things now.

    The biggest charge was that nonresident students were being admitted ahead of California residents. From the system prospective, that is untrue. The system takes every student the legislature subsidizes. Beyond that, we can admit non-resident students that will pay both the tuition and the subsidy. The public has routinely interpreted that those non-residents were taking resident seats, but they can’t. They may take the opportunity for UC to add resident seats, but that’s entirely a function of whether the legislature will fund those seats or not. We ask them to fund more seats each year, most years they refuse.

    From the perspective of students and parents, it appears that it’s getting harder to get into a UC and they attribute that to non-residents taking seats. That’s not true (with a caveat I’ll cover). The reason it’s getting harder to get into a UC is that the number of applications to UC from California residents has grown massively in the last decade – more than 50% increase in a decade. The legislature has not grown the number of subsidies by anywhere near that pace, so selectivity of California residents has gone up – a lot. Some students I would scholarship 10 years ago don’t even get an offer today.

    The place the report is the most accurate is on the campus-by-campus effect. The bulk of the nonresident students are applying to two campuses – Berkeley and UCLA. Those campuses have shifted some resident seats to the other campuses to make space for non-residents. So in aggregate there has been no impact, but it is true that the options for California residents have been constrained, mainly because we have a mechanism to accommodate residents at other campuses but not non-residents. We should have directed some of those non-residents to other campuses rather than shift resident seats. Those campuses have been capped on non-resident at or below their current level so that should be a bit better.

    The report suggests that some California resident students were denied with higher test scores than nonresident admits. Yeah, and this is to be expected. UC doesn’t admit by GPA and test score but on a range of factors including how rigorous your coursework is, how you perform within your high school, what other contributions you can make to the university, etc. SATs and GPA do not form a piecewise function in selection – it’s not as if every student above a score gets in and every student below gets denied. It’s an ‘S’ function – higher scores are statistically more likely to be admitted, depending on a host of other factors. Usually high scores correlate with higher GPAs, and more rigorous academics, but not always. I think we’re all familiar with the students that are really bright, score super high on the SATs but are otherwise lazy/distracted/underchallenged and simply don’t do the coursework and earn a corresponding grade. An 800 subject SAT isn’t remotely a guarantee of admission.

    What the nonresidents bring to the campuses. There’s a bunch of arguments around diversity – I won’t make them. They aren’t wrong, but CA parents don’t fucking care about that when their kid is denied. The thing the students bring is money, money that the CA legislature doesn’t want to pay. The campuses see the application demand from residents and know that eventually we are going to be asked to meet it, but we can’t instantaneously add students. The marginal cost to add a student is very high when you have run out of classrooms – new buildings take years to build. These non-residents are allowing the campuses to grow and should the state ask for more residents (as they have) we can quickly shift non-resident seats into resident seats. Additionally, these non-residents are not poor – they are all fully funded. They do not receive financial aid, however ⅓ to ½ of their tuition goes into the financial aid pool that only residents draw out of. It’s allowed us to extend our financial aid guarantee from $50K household income to $80K. None of that would have been possible without the non-resident tuition.

    The other gap that is exposed by this is that there is no way for a California resident to volunteer to pay the non-resident tuition and get admitted. Now, in our case it wouldn’t matter – the selection for non-resident is higher than for resident, but it could also be done by going deeper into the resident pool and offering students unsubsidized seats.

    There is another side-effect to this system which is that it opens up some seats to lower-income students. It’s a bit subtle, but a number of those students that were shifted out of Berkeley or UCLA didn’t choose one of the other UCs, but instead opt for a private (they previously would have stayed in the system but they now leave). That has the effect of causing the other campuses to dip a bit deeper into their pools, usually picking up more low income students in the process.

    The real problem this exposes is much bigger than the UC system, and probably speaks quite directly to why Sanders/Trump have the kind of support they do. It ties into the NAFTA/automation argument as well. I think underlying all of these is a sense that the formula for getting ahead has broken. That the rules everyone thought they understood of working hard, going to college, getting a decent job are really really complicated now, often to the point of being non-deterministic. Students cannot predict which schools they are a good match for. Workers cannot predict if their skills will be valued or not, etc. I don’t think this will get better.

    The system we have for admitting students we believe is fundamentally fair, but it may not be sufficiently deterministic for those looking from the outside and therefore it appears to be unfair. The good old days of free tuition in CA were also the days when we had more capacity than demand. Admissions were simple – you published what qualified students, and you took everyone. The qualification are still simple, but we don’t have enough space, and the rules for filling space fairly are extremely complex. Build capacity, and this will be simple again.

    When my son was applying we make sure he applied to the local CalState because they still had a guarantee for every qualified student within their region. The rules were simple, and he got admitted early. Its not where he wanted to go, but he had a simple process and a simple solution.

    There are guarantees for residents and simple rules, but everyone feels either entitled or anxious to do better, and that’s because what comes after is apparently non-deterministic. People believe a UCLA grad is more likely to get a job or a better job than a student from another campus (they aren’t, and the salaries are comparable) but they push believing that it matters, and when they are denied for reasons they don’t understand, they are angry. I don’t really blame them, but there’s really very little the UC system can do to address that. UCs are turning away tens of thousands of qualified students. We hate that. Only the legislature can fix it, though.

  47. 47
    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    And my allergies have been killing me. The pollen counts here in Florida are off the scale and its been unpleasant as a result.

    I feel ya (NoVA here).

    I went through the desensitizing shots, and they helped, but didn’t eliminate the problem. I finally quit doing the “maintenance” shots after a few more years as I still had to take antihistamines to have a chance of getting through the day.

    I’ve griped here before about the only thing that seemed to work well for me is Allegra D, but I hate being treated like a criminal when I go to buy a week’s supply.

    After my most recent sinus infection, my doc suggested I try Nasacort and Mucinex. I hate the idea of steroids, and they seemingly don’t really know how the stuff works, but my willpower to resist trying something new finally broke. Each spray is only a tiny amount, so there’s not an issue with a horrible taste. The combination does seem to help a great deal though my eyes still feel like they’re full of gravel when I’ve been outside more than a few minutes. An advantage over Allegra D is that I don’t feel as glum and doped-up during the day any more, and my sleep isn’t affected. The Mucinex seems to prevent the mucus from accumulating in passages where it just sits there risking infection… The smoke test will be when the oaks start doing their stuff in earnest – we’re not quite there yet.

    I know we’re all different when it comes to our bodies trying to kill us over harmless things in the environment, but I thought I’d pass this along. IANAPhysician. YMMV.

    Good luck.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  48. 48
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I wanted to write West (by God) Virginia in a blog post

    To me, that always looks like an abbreviation. I learned it as “West-by-God-you’d-better-smile-when-you-say-Virginia,” and anything shorter is sheer laziness.

  49. 49
    pacem appellant says:

    @raven: You can with an iPod Touch. I have owned several, and have taken movies and photos with them.

  50. 50
    raven says:

    @pacem appellant: Yea, I realized that too late to change the post.

  51. 51
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: What the doc prescribed seems to be working and well. I have a scrip for the steroidal stuff if the non-steroidal doesn’t work, but given that its working, I think I’m good.

  52. 52
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    @smith: That;s terrific; thank you very much!

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: I completely misunderstood the timing surrounding your observations a few threads ago. Stoic or not, it sucks, My condolences and apologies for the delay.

    @LAO : I also love how recruiting experienced folks to take sniper positions against the federal government is the equivalent of “never engaged in an act of violence.”

  53. 53
    Ruckus says:

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
    Rarely a day goes by when I don’t take Nasacort. Nasonex works better but it is not OTC or on the VA formulary. If you are really not getting enough from the Nasacort ask your doc about it.

  54. 54
    LAO says:

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Well, when it’s your self-appointed Constitutional duty to guard against the federal government’s obvious overreach, I guess it’s not.

  55. 55
    Mike J says:

    @pacem appellant:

    You can with an iPod Touch. I have owned several, and have taken movies and photos with them.

    You can with an ipod nano.

  56. 56
    Ruckus says:

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):
    He wasn’t actually holding a gun for gosh sakes!

    I imagine that if you think laws that you don’t like don’t apply to you, it’s pretty easy to rationalize not doing anything illegal.
    ETA And of course that also means that you have to know what the law actually says so you know if it doesn’t apply to you.

  57. 57
    Mnemosyne says:

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:

    I’m stuck using steroids because I have non-allergic asthma, which means I can start wheezing after breathing in common allergens (like pollen) even though I’m not actually allergic to them. It’s a little annoying.

  58. 58
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @LAO:

    We are a mighty army!

    You ain’t no Hamilton fans!

  59. 59
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @efgoldman: Only if the flag has a fringe.

  60. 60
    burnspbesq says:

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):

    If you know where to look, PACER can be funnier than The Onion.

  61. 61
    LAO says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA: true. Our group I smaller because we are more deranged. (I speak for myself, this has clearly driven me off a cliff).

  62. 62
    J R in WV says:

    Wow, that bail appeal is frabjous!!

    I got as far as where he says ” .50 caliber, meaning 50 millimeters of barrel diameter?” which is where I laughed too hard to go on. Millimeters is part of SAE measurements now?

    I always thought .50 caliber was half an inch, but perhaps I was wrong. 50mm is more like 2 inches, which would be small cannon sized.

    And I don’t think bail hearings are quite the same as an actual trial, with cross-examinations of witnesses and such. But IANAL, so I dunno. Hope if I get into legal trouble I can afford a lawyer who writes better than this.

  63. 63
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @LAO: its more of a “special” force.

  64. 64
    Another Holocene Human says:

    Just kind of sad right now because a work colleague called me on speaker when I was driving and I couldn’t understand her and responded to what I thought I heard and finally realized I couldn’t hear a damn thing and asked her what she needed and she hung up on me. She is my age but has a history of acting childish and this is one of those cases–I finally figured out through text kind of what was going on but she refused to address what she originally called me about because she’s too busy nursing her deep offendedness to whatever it was I said and how I said it. (I asked her not to call me out my name, she said she didn’t. Okay, fine, no skin off my nose but apparently hers is permanently out of joint for it.)

    I was really shaky when it happened b/c I didn’t know what the hell was up but now I just feel sad and a little afraid of getting yelled at on Monday.

    Kind of was thinking ‘this, S____, is why all your relationships break up’. :)

  65. 65
    LAO says:

    @Adam L Silverman: there’s nothing wrong with the little yellow bus. Is there?

  66. 66
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @WaterGirl: I hate it when tv shows and movies are super dark and you can’t see anything. If it’s not the scary part of a horror movie I should be able to see without squinting, cough DC, cough JMS.

  67. 67
    PhoenixRising says:

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: try Nasocrom.

    It’s a non-steroidal med that intercepts stem cells in your sinuses, preventing them from reacting to allergens.

    I can’t safely sniff steroids (cancer of the eyeball) so it’s been a lifesaver for me.

    Recommend to ask your Costco pharmacist, because it’s OTC but your medications may vary.

  68. 68
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @LAO: I had a colleague that named her cat Short Bus.

  69. 69
    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet says:

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): No worries Bella. Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  70. 70
    Corner Stone says:

    @Another Holocene Human:

    Kind of was thinking ‘this, S____, is why all your relationships break up’.

    Poor mobile reception? Or asshole colleagues who should have told her that they couldn’t hear clearly and would call once they were done driving?

  71. 71
    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet says:

    @Ruckus: J is trying Nasonex, but she’s upset about the cost ($75 after insurance) and isn’t sure it’s helping her.

    Too much about our bodies is still black magic. The mysteries of the costs of things doesn’t help. :-/

    I’ll keep it in mind if Nasacort seems to help when the oaks go nuts, but not enough. Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  72. 72
    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet says:

    @Mnemosyne: :-( I’m glad you’ve found something that helps though. Hang in there.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  73. 73
    dr. luba says:

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: I used to take Allegra, but it was too expensive when Iost prescription coverage, so I switched to OTC meds. Zyrtec (generic) worked like a charm for me, but had the unfortunate side effect of bottoming out my platelets. It’s an idiosyncratic reaction, but I had to switch.

    I take regular claritin (generic) daily and rarely have any allergy symptoms, even during the worst of allergy season. I’m asthmatic, so also take singulair and a steroid inhaler (infrequently, poorly compliant). I do find that exposure to certain allergens (e.g. spending a day or two on a farm, or living with cats) can severely worsen my allergies. I will sometimes take a short course of low dose steroids in that situation.

    I use the “D” (real pseudoephedrine) only when I get a cold and get horribly congested. And oral steroids when I get bad bronchitis.

    YMMV. And IAAPhysician.

  74. 74
    LAO says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I like it. I always want to name a dog “Egg”. So in public I could yell ” bad egg” or “good egg”, depending on the circumstances.

  75. 75
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @Corner Stone: She had me on speaker, that’s why I couldn’t hear her. The driving was distracting, sure. She wanted something so I asked her what she wanted but that wasn’t enough … it was on … her ego must be fed. She comes at me saying I’m having a bad day yadda yadda … no, sunshine, you are the one all bent out of shape.

    She actually told me, “Well, you should have said ‘Excuse me, did you just call me —?'”

    I actually said, calmly, “Now that’s not very nice.”

  76. 76
    ellie says:

    I went to college in Bowling Green. That’s all.

  77. 77
    Ruckus says:

    @J R in WV:
    I’ve seen your writing, you write far better than this lawyer. I think my friends 4 yr old daughter writes better than this lawyer though so that may be more of a condemnation than a boost.

  78. 78
    LAO says:

    @J R in WV:

    Hope if I get into legal trouble I can afford a lawyer who writes better than this.

    Court appointed lawyers write better than this. (Not a criticism of public defenders, I’ve done a fair amount of CJA work myself).

  79. 79
    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet says:

    @PhoenixRising: I did try Nasalchrom for a while a couple of years ago. Maybe I wasn’t sufficient persistent with it, or maybe I didn’t start early enough in the season, but it didn’t seem to do anything for me. I’m glad it works for you! There’s little worse than not being able to find an allergy medication that helps.

    Your mentioning eye cancer reminds me of my dad. He lost his right eye to occular melanoma around a couple of years ago (but they fortunately caught it before it spread elsewhere). He’s got worse allergies than me. I haven’t asked him recently what he takes…

    I must be part of the 0.001% of people who have one nearby who have never been inside a Costco. I don’t want to be tempted. ;-) (There are only the two of us, so buying Mass Quantities™ would be a waste even if it’s cheaper. I don’t want to be like the guy at work who supposedly bought 75 pairs of sneakers because he liked them and got a good price.)

    Thanks. :-)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  80. 80
    Prescott Cactus says:

    @PhoenixRising: Hope the flight went well and Mom is doing great !

  81. 81
    Ruckus says:

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
    @PhoenixRising:
    Nasalcrom works for me as well, there is a slight difference from Nasacort in the results and neither work as good as Nasonex. But I seem to have a hard time finding Nasalcrom around here and I get Nasacort for a lot cheaper from the VA (and is the only one they prescribe) than OTC.
    Theses are the three that work best for me and I’ve tried almost everything.

  82. 82
    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet says:

    @dr. luba: Thanks muchly. I know my response to these things varies a little over the years. And the responses can be different (i.e. I know what Actifed and Allegra-D feel like, if Claritin doesn’t make me feel the same way, that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s not working). Maybe I’ll give the non-D Allegra and competitors a try again this year. (Usually I only have 2-4 months when I don’t have to take something.)

    Hang in there.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  83. 83
    Corner Stone says:

    I don’t care what the announcers say about Matsuyama’s swing. It is not “rhythmical” and smooth. There’s a bad hitch at the top that makes me wonder how he ever comes downswing through plane.

  84. 84
    ThresherK says:

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: You only need an allergy med 10-12 months of the year? I’m a bit jealous. Spousal ThresherK and I are well matched in this “hobby”.

  85. 85
    Ruckus says:

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
    I find that both Nasalcrom and Nasacort have to be used daily to be maximally effective. They are not curative, they are preventive, meaning of course you have to take them ahead of exposure. One reason you have to take them every day. You can get away with once in a while not using but to be effective it’s every day.

  86. 86
    smith says:

    @Ruckus:

    I think my friends 4 yr old daughter writes better than this lawyer

    In a case like this would a lawyer take dictation from his client? The colloquialisms and whiny pleading sound almost like something Bundy might have written and handed to his lawyer to tidy up the spelling a bit. Doesn’t seem too professional a thing to do, but maybe out West they have sovereign lawyers to go with the citizens and sheriffs.

  87. 87
    dr. bloor says:

    I got out of the boat, and took a stab at Cliven’s appeal. I should have known better–hell, I did know better.

    What an insufferable asshole.

  88. 88
    Ruckus says:

    @smith:
    There are enough lawyerly like phrases to make me think, birds of a feather rather than dictated. Of course in this case there seems to be enough idiocy on the defendants side to go around. And around, and around, and…………….

  89. 89
    Ruckus says:

    @dr. bloor:

    What an insufferable asshole.

    You had to get out of the boat to know that?

    ETA Really I commented here to be able to blockquote What an insufferable asshole. Hey, repeating works too!

  90. 90
    LAO says:

    @smith: crazy clients always want their lawyers to make crazy arguments. Sometimes, when you are in an unwinnable position, you throw your client a bone. If a client doesn’t believe you are fighting for them, it becomes impossible to maintain a relationship.

    Cliven Bundy will not be released pre-trial, it is an unwinnable argument. But, based on what I can see, his lawyer (1) believes much of the same crap and (2) I’m unsure how much federal criminal experience he has. Mainly, because Judges don’t appreciate fatuous papers or arguments.

  91. 91
    smith says:

    @Ruckus:

    enough lawyerly like phrases to make me think, birds of a feather rather than dictated.

    True — when the citizens attempt lawyerly language the results are ever so much more hilarious.

  92. 92
    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet says:

    @Ruckus: Ah. Thanks for the warning/words of wisdom.

    We’ll see how it goes.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  93. 93
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @LAO:

    My (veddy veddy ladylike and prudish) grandmother once confided to me that when she was a little girl she always wanted a spotted black-and-white dog that she would name Helen, so she could stand in the doorway and yell “HELEN DALMATION!!” at the top of her voice.

  94. 94
    Ruckus says:

    @LAO:
    I can’t wait to hear the judges response to this waste of paper and time.
    It’s so bad and not really all that funny that I believe we should be able to hear brain cells dying from thousands of miles away when someone reads it.

  95. 95
    Ellen says:

    They picked up Jake Ryan the other day, I think that’s the last of them:
    http://www.oregonlive.com/oreg.....ke_ry.html“>

  96. 96
    Ella in New Mexico says:

    @Adam L Silverman
    Setting aside this thing looks like Cliven’s 13 year-old grandson dictated it…

    Practically every provable assertion this document makes can be disputed with video of Cliven running his big fat mouth, or screen shots of Facebook posts in which Cliven runs his big, fat mouth, or in testimony from others that can attest that Cliven indeed DID run his big fat mouth and was a leader and participant in all the actions at his ranch and at Malheur, particularly after sonny boys Ammon and Ryan got arrested. Add to that the eyewitness testimony of BLM and FBI and local law enforcement who had guns pointed at them, under the leader ship of ole’ cloven-hoofed Cliven.

    They live in a fantasy world. But they’re dangerous. God please let the Government crack down on these people. Living in the West I can tell you that if they don’t, there’s gonna be hell to pay over the next few years.

  97. 97
    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet says:

    @ThresherK: Yikes!

    I appreciate the respite I usually get (usually ~ Jan-Feb or so), but then the air is usually dry enough to make the risk of sinus infections shoot up… :-/

    Hang in there, both of you!

    Cheers,
    Scott.
    (Who sometimes wonders if we would have been better off staying in the oceans. ;-)

  98. 98
    LAO says:

    @Ruckus: I can’t wait to read the government’s response. ( I will send to Adam, of course).

  99. 99
    Ruckus says:

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
    I’ve lived where it’s humid and where it’s dry. Both are problems, different problems, but it’s the transitions from one to the other than hit me the hardest. Flying regularly and then getting out of the plane made for some fun times. Which lead me to believe that it’s actually barometric pressure that is a lot of the problem. At least in my case.

  100. 100
    Corner Stone says:

    Davis Love III seems to be leaving it out a bit wide trying to come home in the Saturday round.

  101. 101
    elftx says:

    Jake Ryan was finally found in a shed with a gun and knives and is in custody. Not sure if he had snacks. He was a holdout at the refuge with the Andersons and David Fry. His parents and the local sheriff in Montana all think it would be just fine to send him back home to them. The judge said no.

    This weeks hearing on transferring the ‘boys’ to NV has been upheld and Ryan Bundy is upset because he is having trouble getting any of his discoveries. Seems judge responded along the lines of that’s what you get when you defend yourself.

    Crystal Crane Hot Springs, a resort out there posted this on FB this week: “There is a sign going around Facebook with our name in affiliation to Pete Santilli. We would like to state we did not authorize the use of our name and have no affiliation with this group. Another attempt to try to align us with groups we have no affiliation with. Please help get the message out…we just want peace and quiet back at Crystal Crane.”

    The sign said it was paid for by Pete Santilli and had been showing on The Oath with SSG Moe fb page but since removed. Not sure if they were able to post them around Burns or not.

    Thanks Adam and everyone else for all the info on these whackjobs!!

  102. 102
    Ruckus says:

    @LAO:
    I see two possible directions for the answer.
    A plain NO, the defendant meets none of the possible reasons for bail.
    Or
    A cleverly worded hilarious 5 page response that says the same thing but in words that neither the attorney nor Bundy will understand, but of course my friends 4 yr old daughter who writes better would be able to understand and would still be laughing about for a week.

  103. 103
    nutella says:

    @🚸 Martin:

    Thanks for that interesting analysis. I have noticed that people get really pissed off when they don’t get accepted at their favorite state university.

    A question: When the protests were happening at UC Davis in 2011 (including the infamous pepper-spray-in-the-eyes incident), I remember hearing that the reason students were protesting is that their tuition shot up to a much higher amount in the middle of their undergraduate years. Is that correct? And can it still happen or does the student subsidy cover 4 years?

  104. 104
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @J R in WV: Here’s a 50 caliber bullet, or as you know a .50 BMG (Browning Machine Gun):
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.50_BMG
    And here’s a 50 mm shell:
    http://www.rcuniverse.com/foru.....hells.html
    As you know, you can’t substitute mm for caliber. Two completely different things.

  105. 105

    @Ruckus:

    I can’t wait to hear the judges response to this waste of paper and time.

    If he’s smart, it will be denied as concisely as possible. Getting into an argument on the details is a losing proposition.

  106. 106
    dr. bloor says:

    @LAO: If the government response consists of anything other than a photo of the judge taking a dump on the motion, I’m going to be disappointed.

  107. 107
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @LAO: Or when giving directions to it, a la The Great Gatsby: east Egg! west Egg!

  108. 108
    sukabi says:

    @Roger Moore: totally workable… large colosseum, blast proof window enclosure, pay per view event….

  109. 109
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Ellen: Yep and they’ve got Fry on suicide watch and have refused him bail for that reason.

    Also, usually when they track one of these guys to a hideout in someone’s barn or house or cabin it usually ends with a big kaboom!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ot73XFXagMw

  110. 110
  111. 111
    Ruckus says:

    @Roger Moore:
    I doubt seriously there would be any argument. Or should I say winning in any way argument for the defense.
    @dr. bloor:
    I do like your style. You have afforded the motion every consideration it deserves.

  112. 112
    LAO says:

    @Adam L Silverman: still gonna send it to you. Sorry.

  113. 113
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @LAO: I’m not sure how you took “as is tradition” combined with the vid of where the line comes from as “don’t send me anything”. But to each their own.

  114. 114
    Redshift says:

    @Ella in New Mexico: My two favorite bits were citing the Whiskey Rebellion as evidence that their actions weren’t “unprecedented” (I guess they’re okay being identified with a tax revolt put down by George Washington himself as long as it means there’s precedent?) and the insistence that he couldn’t have been inciting violence because it’s impossible the standoff could have ended without them shooting someone if he had.

  115. 115
    Beth in VA says:

    @Shana: iPods do shoot vid. Basically an iPhone without the phone.

  116. 116
    LAO says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I’m super dehydrated today. That’s my story, I’m sticking to it. NO MORE sake for me ever! Or sushi (for at least a week).

    ETA: I’m so out of it, I really didn’t get the point.

  117. 117
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @efgoldman: Which is funny, because if you look it up, for a lot of auto loaders, they’re the same thing. Just two different terms.

    And don’t forget the shoulder thingy that goes up!

  118. 118
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @LAO: Could be worse, you could have had soju. That stuff makes sake look like tap water.

  119. 119
    Baud says:

    @efgoldman:

    What is the difference?

  120. 120
    Miss Bianca says:

    Wow…come back from a shopping trip and a hike and oh! such a wealth of derpitude to unpack! My mercy me! When it rains, it poureth…thanks (?), Adam!

  121. 121
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @nutella: I know that when I was a student and only paid “fees” at UCLA, they doubled while I was an undergrad. I suspect that since the body that sets tuition at UC campuses(the Board of Regents) and the body that sets the subsidy for residents(the Legislature) are separate, an increase in tuition would not be accompanied by an increase in the resident subsidy.

  122. 122
    LAO says:

    @Adam L Silverman: but now I have to try it.

    First NY political ad on my tv. Clinton. Narrated by Morgan freeman.

  123. 123
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @LAO: Sake was my drink of choice back in the day.

  124. 124
    Mnemosyne says:

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:

    One of my friends at work is severely allergic to grasses (and it turns out that oatmeal is a grass — who knew?) so I sometimes tease her that when her far-distant ancestors left the savannahs of Africa, they walked until there wasn’t any more goddamned grass in sight, which is why her near ancestors are all from Sweden and Norway.

  125. 125
    Baud says:

    @efgoldman: Ah, the most important difference of all.

  126. 126
    Baud says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Had it once. Couldn’t tolerate it.

  127. 127
    nutella says:

    Standoff question: Is there any description anywhere of the early part where there was some violence including tasing Ammon? I’ve heard Bundy sympathizers mention it but have any of the government people who were there described what happened?

  128. 128
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @LAO: Soju? If you’ve got a Korean market nearby, they’ll have it. I could ask the wife about the best brand.

  129. 129
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Baud: Heh, my problem is that I liked it too much.

  130. 130
    Mnemosyne says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    UCLA is REALLY expensive now. One of the reasons G ended up going to SJSU online instead of UCLA in person was that UCLA was about $12K more. (SJSU is Cal State.)

  131. 131
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Baud: Here you go:
    http://www.usacarry.com/clip-o.....it-matter/

    Short answer: a magazine is a container of rounds or cartridges that is inserted into the firearm. A clip is used to load rounds/cartridges into a magazine. The confusion is usually between long gun users and handgun users. For instance, some long guns have integral, built in magazines. You insert the clip into this, which is built directly into the long gun. This is similar, but not the same, as loading a magazine into a handgun or a long gun that is fed from a magazine.

  132. 132
    lollipopguild says:

    Not sure if he had snacks.
    But did he have dildos and lube?@efgoldman: How does a dildo use a dildo?

  133. 133
    divF says:

    @🚸 Martin:
    Good analysis, thanks. Are you employed by UC ? (I am).

    I’m on a plane back from a meeting at Princeton. It is easy to get annoyed with the undergrads at Berkeley (where I live) as they heedlessly jaywalk with earphones on, but I will be thankful to be home after a mercifully brief exposure to “the prettiest sight in this fine pretty world […] the privileged class enjoying its privileges,” in the words of Macaulay Connor in The Philadelphia Story. OTOH, the graduate students still have that hunted, hagridden look that caused me to decamp 40+ years ago. Brrr.

  134. 134
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Miss Bianca: Next time you’ll be able to outfit your hiking trip by shopping at the Oath Keepers Outlet!

  135. 135
    LAO says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA: please do. Would love recommendation. I’m always looking to expand my (alcohol) horizons.

  136. 136
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @LAO: If you’re serious, let me know and I’ll have ask my aikido friends at the Bond Street dojo, which is the best soju place in Koreatown.

  137. 137
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @nutella: If I recall correctly he decided to get grabby with a Federal officer.

  138. 138
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Mnemosyne: I took a look recently, the UC’s are pretty pricey. The CalState system is cheaper, partly since their mission started out as teachers colleges. There were originally 2, one in San Jose and one in LA. The one in LA was taken over by the UC system as their second campus(the Southern Branch, aka UCLA). The kid’s also at a CalState(CSULA), for one more quarter. Then she’s got to study for her nursing boards.

  139. 139
    Baud says:

    @Adam L Silverman: So handguns don’t have clips, only magazines?

  140. 140
    LAO says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I am serious. I eat in koreatown quite often.

  141. 141
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @LAO: I eat Korean food pretty often as well, but I get the home cooked stuff.

  142. 142
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Baud: Correct. Auto loading handguns, better known as semi-automatic handguns, have magazines. They are under spring tension and your load the rounds into the magazine and then the magazine into the gun. Revolvers, for obvious reasons, don’t have magazines. Long guns – rifles (including carbines) and shotguns, can have removable magazines, integral magazines, or no magazines. Some older ones have what are called box clips. The rifle cartridges are loaded into the clip and the clip is seated into the rifle. It is usually expelled as the last round fires. It is possible that this is where the confusion comes from – rifle users that had these box clips referring to magazines as clips.

    If you want to start a fight at a firearms website/blog throwing out “are magazines and clips really different?” is one way to do it. Arguing over the most effective caliber is another. Trashing GLOCKs, or pledging one’s undying love to GLOCKs, will usually do it too.

  143. 143
    divF says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Hat tip to you – UCLA’s original name (as part of UC) of The Southern Branch is major California arcana.

  144. 144
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @LAO: I’ll email the Lord of Strange Deaths and get an answer for you!

    We used to take Saotome Sensei to the restaurant about halfway up 34th from 6th with the big white piano in the lobby for dinner on the first night of his seminar. That’s because the late/former chief instructor of the dojo was an ethnic Korean who had been raised in Japan. I can never remember the place’s name.

  145. 145
    Baud says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Thanks, Adam. You’ve helped make NCIS: New Orleans a much richer experience for me.

  146. 146
    LAO says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA: I’m in charge of the home cooking. There’s lots of eating out and takeout. I’m sure you have the better deal.

  147. 147
    MobiusKlein says:

    @LAO:

    Is that why Mr. Bundy, a man who has never hurt a fly, is being held in solitary confinement?

    Kindness to animals? No wonder he was such a terrible cattle rancher. It’s part of the job to kill them and sell the parts.

  148. 148
    LAO says:

    @Adam L Silverman: thank you. And that is the best title ever!

  149. 149
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Baud: You’re quite welcome. Since you watch NCIS NoLA, which I do as well for the random LAMH sightings… You may have noticed that Scott Bakula’s character used a special 5 inch barrel revolver in the pilot. It had its own name, which I don’t recall. By the time the show was picked up he was using the standard issue SIG SAUER that are one of the carry option for duty issued sidearms for Federal officers.

  150. 150
    LAO says:

    @MobiusKlein: truth, I’m no fan of solitary confinement, even for the Bundy bunch, but that line did make me giggle.

  151. 151
    Baud says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Of course I noticed.

    He also always locks up his gun in the file cabinet. Excellent public service messaging.

  152. 152
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @divF: I know the folk from Berserkly like to remind us of that when they visit the Rose Bowl. I think the “Southern Branch” nomenclature disappeared about the time we moved to Westwood from the Vermont campus(currently LACC).

  153. 153
    catclub says:

    @smith: So he is willing to put in what, 25 years on Robben Island?

    Just like Nelson.

  154. 154
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Adam L Silverman: My wife’s mother was born and raised in Japan.

  155. 155
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Baud: That’s a workplace safety requirement. When you’re in your secure area, you disarm and secure your weapon.

  156. 156
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Okay.

    I was very fortunate: I got to train with Kang Sensei for a year before he died. It provided a very useful, alternate view of what I’d been taught to do up to that point and how I was to go about doing it.

  157. 157
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Adam L Silverman: OMG!! “Come on down to the OATHKEEPER’S OUTLET, y’all!”

    And speaking of OMG…that.fucking.bond.appeal. Jesu, Mary, and Bride! Was it transcribed from the original crayon-on-paper-bag?

  158. 158
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @LAO: The request has been sent. I’ll PM the answer across once I hear back.

  159. 159
  160. 160
    divF says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA: I am a great fan of the California post-secondary system, past and present, which is why I know the name. I have multiple in-laws who went to SJSU, all of whom are highly successful engineers. I also had multiple professors in grad school who were products of UCLA (one who was Class of 1937).

  161. 161
    Miss Bianca says:

    He is a beloved man and a large part of our community in Bunkerville, Nevada.

    .

    Bunkerville, Nevada…wow, you really can’t make this shit up.

    He is an amazing Father, Husband, Grandfather, Friend, Cousin, and Neighbor…

    Does Capitalizing Everything Make It Truer-er?

  162. 162
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    @LAO: Indeed bones must be tossed to maintain, um, sorta kinda civil relationships with some difficult clients, as we know all too well. As for counsel of record there, not only do I doubt minimal federal criminal experience, the filing reads as if written by a lawyer with nearly no federal civil experience, and a similar amount of criminal experience.

  163. 163
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): FML ^ suspect minimal … This is the result of editing construction without close proofing.

  164. 164
    LAO says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    Does Capitalizing Everything Make It Truer-er?

    Yes.

  165. 165
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    @LAO:

    @Miss Bianca:

    Does Capitalizing Everything Make It Truer-er?

    Yes.

    Well, DUH. They don’t even have to teach that in law school, as you could have additonally pointed out.

  166. 166
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Miss Bianca: Yes It Does!

  167. 167
    J R in WV says:

    This thread is was more fun that the Denny Hastert thread next door.

    These guys are mostly buffoons and Denny R-Illinois was a vile shitestain upon the fabric of our nation.

  168. 168
    🚸 Martin says:

    @nutella:

    A question: When the protests were happening at UC Davis in 2011 (including the infamous pepper-spray-in-the-eyes incident), I remember hearing that the reason students were protesting is that their tuition shot up to a much higher amount in the middle of their undergraduate years. Is that correct? And can it still happen or does the student subsidy cover 4 years?

    In theory it could happen, but we have agreements with the state currently to prevent (or at least minimize) that. The agreements are not durable, however.

    The subsidy doesn’t work that way, though. We used to get a subsidy of $11K per student in 2008 and resident fees were around $6500 per year. Our costs were pretty much pegged to that. In 2009 the subsidy got cut to around $8000 per student, so with the $6500 fees, we were losing money on each student. We did a massive round of cuts (I laid off 60% of my staff) but we couldn’t cut enough. The system decided to make up the lost subsidy by raising fees to make up the difference. We’re now at $11200 for fees with the same $8K subsidy, so from our viewpoint revenues per student went up $1500 (actually a bit more as most campuses introduced other small fees and shifted costs to them). And this happened at a time when applications were skyrocketing so we were trying to grow on less revenue.

    When people can’t get jobs they go to college and the pressure to go to college increases. It’s been particularly challenging for STEM programs since the student demand shifted considerably from the humanities and social sciences to STEM and service careers – things that had more direct professional paths. So within that context you have a migration within campuses, which is itself expensive to do.

    The larger political context in CA is interesting. Brown is overall a pretty damn liberal guy, but he is very restrained with spending. He doesn’t like UC. He thinks we are too expensive, too focused on research, too slow to change, etc. I disagree on the research charge – the research mission in the UC is why CA has silicon valley, a biotech industry, aerospace, most of the manufacturing sectors we have, etc. It’s why Tesla and SpaceX are here. But we are too slow to change and we could do more to address costs. He wants to the system to grow but he doesn’t want to put the cost of that growth in the budget just yet. He’s negotiated for the system to add 10,000 residents over the next 3 years, which will happen (we’ll probably add more) and my guess is that growth will be permanent just before he leaves office and when the state budget is healthier. The one thing he likes a bit more about UC is that our pension isn’t completely fucked. UC peeled out of the state pension program ages ago and has a much less generous pension plan than the state and CSU, but its a much more sustainable one as a result.

  169. 169
    🚸 Martin says:

    @divF: Yes, I’ve worked at UC for over 20 years.

  170. 170
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @J R in WV: just put up a new open thread.

  171. 171
    Gravenstone says:

    @debbie: @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): This article was making the rounds at work recently (compliments of our Hazard Evaluation group).. Seems appropriate to drop it here, given the rise in events using TATP around the globe. Just a little something to think about if you smell something out of the ordinary nearby.

  172. 172
    Gravenstone says:

    @J R in WV:

    .50 caliber, meaning 50 millimeters of barrel diameter

    Subtle difference there, half an inch vs. nearly two inches. Easy to see how someone could get confused.

    /eye roll

  173. 173
    debbie says:

    @Gravenstone:

    Scary. I can’t imagine any of those smells. Someone should create a scratch and sniff flyer so people would know what that stuff (and also meth) smelled like.

    I almost called the cops once because I was sure I could smell my neighbor’s rotting corpse, but it turned out she was making kimchi.

  174. 174
    Ruckus says:

    @debbie:
    Not a good story, so you may want to pass on this.
    A downstairs neighbor (long, long ago) slipped and hit his head in the tub. He lived alone and was frequently gone for a week or more at a time so none of us in the building missed him for a while, until we noticed a strange smell. The girl that lived next door to him talked to the manager, who when he didn’t pay his rent called the cops. He had been dead for 2-3 weeks. By the time they found him the smell was overwhelming. You never, ever forget the smell of that and it doesn’t smell like kimchi.

  175. 175
    opiejeanne says:

    @Another Holocene Human: My favorite “horror” movie is Tremors, and most of the scary stuff happens in broad daylight.

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    sukabi says:

    @lollipopguild: like a Russian nestinf doll?

  177. 177
    No One You Know says:

    @Anya: I’m much obliged for it. Local news (relatively speaking) yesterday regarding tourism in Burns bubbled over with enthusiasm (including a fabulous recording of Sandhill cranes calling for mates) although the townspeople were rather more circumspect about answering questions about the popularity boomlet. A tourist was less shy: the birder said the largest freshwater wetland in the U.S. was vital for the protection of the Pacific flyway, and important for both Steens Mountain and the desert as well.

  178. 178
    Mighty M. says:

    @🚸 Martin: Martin, what campus are you at? I’m a Berkeley alum and volunteer. Your comments are an excellent summary of our painful situation. Unlike you, however, I’m not convinced that our admissions process is defensible- it’s just too opaque. That opacity is enormously infuriating to parents, especially alumni parents…the very people we depend on to support us.

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    Stan says:

    To be fair to these morons: the term “caliber” actually has two completely different, unrelated meanings.

    In the US, in the context of small arms (i.e., pistols and rifles, not cannons etc) “caliber” is generally used to mean the diameter of the bore in inches. Thus a “.50 caliber” weapon is indeed a half inch, or 12.7mm, in diameter. A “thirty caliber” is .30 inches or 7.62mm in diameter.

    However, worldwide (and in the US generally in the context of larger weapons such as cannons) the term ‘caliber’ means “the length of the gun tube divided by the diameter” or bore. So for example a cannon with a bore (diameter) of 100mm with a gun tube 10,000mm long could be referred to as a 100mm 100 caliber, because the tube is 100 calibers (bore diameters) long.

    So the Bundy document is wrong and sloppy as hell, but, not completely without basis in weapon terminology.

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