Et tu, Jeff Weaver?https://t.co/Q4BwI3PH7E#wematterfornow pic.twitter.com/Ahjkgir4GU
— Jon Ralston (@RalstonReports) April 3, 2016
One of our regular commentors went to their local county convention over the weekend, and reported back:
… I spent the day with a huuuuge gang of Bernistas and Hillary-ites, and I’ve gotta tell you, after the first 2 hours, I changed from a casual “yeah, I support Hillary” to a “I will call, go door-to-door, whatever is necessary to beat Sanders” die-hard fan. His supporters, by and large, were *that* awful at the convention. They booed Hillary’s name always, they drowned out any speaker who asked that we all support whoever gets nominated with unending “Bernie,Bernie” chanting, they regularly paraded around the convention center, also chanting, several individuals walked through the seats spouting really hateful, dishonest crap about Hillary, they had long, loud conversations about how the committee counting the delegates was “obviously” trying to cheat for Hillary. Also, the debacle at the Arizona primary? ALL Hillary’s fault. She, personally, decided to cut the number of polling places. It was as close as I ever want to get to being at a Trump rally. Things were that uncomfortable & out-of-whack.
And then, the chair threw out for a voice vote “Should we seat all elected alternates and unelected alternates as delegates?” It was seconded & passed. Turns out part of the Bernie campaign’s tactics was to get as many people as possible to just show up as “unelected alternates”, get them counted & essentially steal the county. Hillary won here by (I believe) 8-9 points in the popular vote. Bernie won the convention, technically by the rules, but unethically as hell.
In a WTF conversation about it with a fellow Hillary delegate, I was told by a Bernista that it was only fair, because his supporters are so much more enthusiastic, their votes should count for more. She was entirely serious.
I found out today that the convention chair, who was a Sanders supporter, was removed early yesterday morning, after sharing information with just the Sanders campaign & not the Clinton campaign. There is also talk about how delegates were checked in, an email that was sent to Hillary supporters who were told that if they pre-registered they didn’t have to show up at the convention, and more. The whole experience, from caucus to convention, is so tremendously fucked-up and undemocratic that it makes me nuts…ETA: and the scheduling makes zero sense. The county convention was scheduled for all day Saturday on Final Four weekend, guaranteeing that Culinary Union & most service-industry people will be working. The state delegate convention is scheduled for May 14 & 15, which is also the date for UNLV and UNR’s graduation. Planning, WTF?
Local political expert Jon Ralston reports:
Despite losing the state on Feb. 20 in the caucus, Bernie Sanders’ campaign swarmed the Clark County caucus and probably flipped two delegates from Hillary Clinton’s camp.
Clinton was presumed to have a 20-15 delegate edge after the caucus based on her 5 percentage point win in the caucuses. But because the caucus process allows some delegates to be unbound, 12 of those were up for grabs at the 17 county conventions Saturday. Sanders had 600 more delegates in Clark on Saturday despite losing the state’s most populous county by nearly 10 percentage points.
That is expected to switch two delegates to Sanders, giving Clinton an 18-17 lead in Nevada, but that is still pending the results of the state convention next month when those 12 slots could again change. (Sanders also dominated in Washoe and did well elsewhere.) Ah, the caucus process…
The horse-race touts at the Washington Post preferred to formulate it as “A scrappy Sanders campaign narrows the Nevada delegate count six weeks after the caucuses”.
Between the Wisconsin primary coming Tuesday and the media’s excitement over the New York primary on April 19, it looks like this contretemps will be seen as important only to those most immediately concerned. On the other hand, a large part of Bernie Sanders’ marketing appeal has been based on his reputation as The Last Pure Crusader — the only guy in politics who preferred ideals to low, nasty politicking. Eroding that elite image (and if even Jeff Weaver is whining, it’s hurting Sanders) damages Bernie’s most valuable political asset. When Nevada’s delegates are finally appointed in June, and when the DNC meets at the end of July, it’s the hardcore activists who’ll remember what happened in Clark County, and that won’t be good for Sandernistas.
***********
Apart from scrapping for every marginal advantage, what’s on the agenda as we start another week?
Some Clinton supporters in LV were duped by a dirty trick, but this is also on Clinton camp for not countering it. https://t.co/tInscsfX7x
— AlGiordano (@AlGiordano) April 3, 2016
Marshall better! That's the lesson here. Don't let it repeat at the May state convention and y'all will be fine. https://t.co/a0VCal7iol
— AlGiordano (@AlGiordano) April 3, 2016
rikyrah
Good Morning ?, Everyone ?.
rikyrah
The Clinton campaign should not have been unaware of what could happen. They should have been prepared.
Betty Cracker
I think the Republicans are about to expose just how fucked up and undemocratic the primaries can be. Probably won’t change a damn thing, though.
Also, Giordano is correct; no point whining about dirty tricks that are legit under the current rules. IIRC, then-candidate Obama worked the system to his advantage and was rightly praised for it.
MikeBoyScout
It ain’t beanbag, but it sure as heck seems like a lot of shenanigans for less than a 1% pick-up. Was it really worth the effort and bad blood?
Baud
@rikyrah: Agree.
@MikeBoyScout: No.
@Betty Cracker: I wish I had thought of this.
SuperHrefna
@rikyrah: 100% agree. Her team is doing a better job of knowing the rules than they did in ’08, but I think she’s too eager to get to the general election, and needs to focus more on getting the primary sewn up.
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
I have been fighting with my baby girl because she is heavily into the Sanders kool-aide. To the point she was claiming she would stay home if he did not get the nomination. we argued a good bit about this because she is not well off like Susan Saradon & can’t flee or even protect herself if the shit hits the fan. At the moment I don;t know if I have actually talked her off the ledge or if she is just placating me. I don’t know how bright, politically aware and practical person, despite being very young, can be in the Bernie or death cardre.
raven
Off to Augusta!
OzarkHillbilly
381 days, 18 hrs, 7 mins, 15 14 13 12 11….. secs
Bob In Portland
Interesting money-laundering scheme. It certainly explains one reason why state Democratic Parties have been so loyal to Clinton.
Baud
@Bob In Portland: And I thought that link was going to be a story about the Panamanian tax haven.
@raven: Awesome. Have fun.
@Schlemazel (parmesan rancor): Wait till the primary is over. These are emotional times.
Bob In Portland
And this one.
Genghis
http://usuncut.com/politics/bernie-wins-nevada-democratic-caucus/
Accusation here appears to be that H campaign and CCDP were changing rules late in the game to favor H, B campaign responded.
Which story is accurate? I have no idea.
Best…H
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
While the Bernistas(spit) are gaming things so their “Free Bread and a Pony” raging asshole dickbag candidate can play Gene McCarthy for a while longer, Donald Trump is “making a better deal” for Japan’s defense or bolting because “we’re 19 trillion in debt and can’t afford it”. Donald apparently doesn’t know anything about the end of the Second World War or the (actually very wisely done) society remaking constitution that Douglas MacArthur imposed on them – the one with strict limitations on the type of military Japan would be allowed. He’s stupid to the bone, and dangerously so.
Fuck Bernie sideways with a rusty chainsaw. Right now I could easily support an actual Democrat running in Vermont. Another 3 months of listening to the fucktard and his even more fucktarded base supporters, and I could support a Republican senator from Vermont just to eliminate him, his scowling visage, his Facebook memes and his dumbass brooklyn accent from my life. I want gone from American political life.
Davebo
@Bob In Portland:
Good Grief! They let 8 years olds write at counterpunch?
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
@raven:
ENJOY!
Bob In Portland
@Baud:
And I knew that the Balloon Juice community would in unison cover their eyes for these stories. Selective outrage. But really, laundering money is only bad over there. None of you seem particularly curious about how money moves around here.
Patricia Kayden
@Schlemazel (parmesan rancor): I’m hoping that Senator Sanders will enthusiastically endorse Secretary Clinton once he loses and then campaign vigorously for her. Perhaps seeing Sanders campaigning on her behalf will make many of his die hard supporters see clearly that this election is not about their love for him but their love for this country.
I supported Obama from the beginning in 2008 but would have voted for Secretary Clinton in a heartbeat had she won the nomination. That’s what grown ups do.
MomSense
@raven:
Have fun!
Bob In Portland
@Davebo: More worried about grammar than laundering money? Of course!
BillinGlendaleCA
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: I’m guessing you’re not feeling ‘The Bern”.
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
@Davebo:
Well they have to! How else would Bobby be able to digest their output?
I noticed Bob sort of skipped commenting on his first real loves emerging problems. Maybe that great defender of liberty and worlds only bulwark against fascism, Putin the Pure, is a topic he no longer cares to rage on at us about
Patricia Kayden
@Bob In Portland: **shrugs**
In a Citizens United world, our side has to raise millions (if not billions) of dollars to stay competitive in national elections. So what if Secretary Clinton has several wealthy donors to help her campaign? Why should I be upset that she has rich supporters? Campaign finance reform will come either from Secretary Clinton signing legislation once she’s President or from SCOTUS overturning Citizens United. Secretary Clinton is playing by the rules which does not mean that she doesn’t support campaign finance reform.
Peale
@Betty Cracker: I don’t know if the primary process is undemocratic or stupid. seriously? A four step process is required to obtain delegates in Nevada? Why?
Baud
@Bob In Portland: I like the story. As far as your attempt to link it to Clinton, that is weaker than international tax law.
Davebo
@Bob In Portland:
I’m not worried about either one. At least not regarding that “story”.
I don’t think you understand the concept of money laundering anymore than Margot Kidder understands grammar (which explains why she always had writers).
Phylllis
@raven: Btw, you can’t turn right at Old Berckmans Road (@ the water tower) unless you have a special parking pass. As they have indicated ad nauseam on the local news this morning.
bystander
@Bob In Portland: Also a question of meaning and clarity. So, there’s that.
If Trump is really going down now, I am hoping he lobs bombs at faux On the way down.
MomSense
@Schlemazel (parmesan rancor):
My kid told me that he has Sanders supporters to thank for making him such an enthusiastic Clinton supporter. He is going to have the talk with his grandmother because I can’t anymore with the Breitbart memes and other nonsense.
Weaselone
@Bob In Portland:
Still haven’t recovered from the shock of Bernie being #1 with defense contractors, eh?
Bob In Portland
@Schlemazel (parmesan rancor):
What about Poroshenko? Hello? Trouble for the Chocolate King this a.m. too.
No, I realize that you don’t concern yourselves about the corruption in the Democratic Party versus corruption in Russia. So now you can say that the rich move money around in overseas accounts to hide drug money, avoid taxes and all sorts of things. I’ve been saying this for years. But somehow, when it turns out that the DNC was laundering money for the Clinton campaign you folks just aren’t interested. How amazingly unpredictable. Not.
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
@MomSense:
I respect enthusiasm and love it when it is also moored to reality so good on those Sanders supporters. I’m OK with either one of the Dems, I want someone more liberal than Clinton and more reasonable than Sanders but there are no perfect candidates we all need to understand that,
Bob In Portland
Might explain John Lewis’ bad memory.
Punchy
I initially read the title as “Dark Dongs” and thought this was a thread about Obama’s Lewinsky…
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@BillinGlendaleCA:
It’s the worst combo of itch and burn, Preparation H can’t even dent it. Like I said before – if it is a race between Trump and fuckface Sanders, I’m expatriating. Trump brings on the brownshirts , Sanders brings on The Greatest Depression and rips the guts out of the world economy through gross stupidity.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@Bob In Portland:
Fuck you, you fucking asshole.
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
@Blob In Portland:
It is a bit late now but perhaps if you had not been such an asshole around here when you first arrived, perhaps you could have STFU and listened to the replies you got and examined the merits of your arguments and theirs instead of calling us all names and insisting we were all fascist bastards, perhaps if you had shown some even small sense of reason, people here might take you more seriously and engage you in earnest debate.
But that is all bullshit under the bridge now, you behaved in a way that gives you no credibility and makes people just want you to GTFO. You could try to dial it back a couple hundred notches and acting like a valuable member of BJ community but somehow or other I doubt you have that in you & that is too bad.
OzarkHillbilly
@Bob In Portland: You do realize that money is what makes the world go around, don’t you?
MomSense
@Bob In Portland:
Oh my god Clinton’s large donors are also supporting state Democratuc parties!!! We are going to hire field organizers, rent shitty office spaces,buy reams of paper, get internet and cheap flip phones so we can elect Democratic candidates to state legislatures and Congress.
Sussman has a bit of a potty mouth but he helped our Maine campaigns a lot. Now that he and our 1st CD Rep are no longer a couple, I hope he continues to help our state party.
Baud
@Baud:
I rest my case.
The Sheriff Endorses Baud 2016
Its 4:30 in the morning in Portland, but apparently this serious enough in the Motherland to put all hands on deck at the Moskva Agitprop Factory. Deflect! Deflect! Deflect! Comrade Putin must be defended at all costs!
The Thin Black Duke
@Bob In Portland: Huh? You have the goddamned nerve to talk trash about John Lewis, you sick fuck?
debbie
@raven:
Lots of azalea shots please!
BillinGlendaleCA
@OzarkHillbilly: As “Big Daddy” said: “Money is the mother’s milk of polictics” and “If you can’t take their money, screw their women and drink their booze and vote against them in the morning, you have no business being here”.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@The Sheriff Endorses Baud 2016:
I haven’t checked my world clock, but it has to be long past happy hour in Moscow, St Pete and Minsk.
Mary
@Genghis: I’m still half asleep so maybe it’s in there and I missed it, but what I couldn’t find anything in the article that explained what rules the Clinton campaign was trying to have changed at the last minute.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: It’s 2:35pm in Moscow.
Baud
@rikyrah: I just realized you got in your good morning in at the # 1 spot.
Good morning!
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA: It’s always happy hour in Putin’s Russia.
Bob In Portland
@Schlemazel (parmesan rancor):
How terrible of me to point out the fascist background of our allies in Ukraine. You’re right. And because I called you an asshole (except that, no, you called me as asshole) that because I wouldn’t listen to you now this kind, deliberative body has finally decided not to take anything I write into consideration.
Funny, I have a different recollection of events. But no matter.
Shouldn’t someone step up and claim I’m a conspiracy theorist about now? Obviously, the lobbyist of Sri Lanka has deep concerns about the Democratic Party of Montana, and all that extra money that flowed through the DNC to Clinton PACs was merely the price of keeping the Dems afloat in Missoula. Isn’t it about time that we get a story about Hillary being the most honest candidate in this campaign?
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@BillinGlendaleCA:
Ah, the middle of Bob’s workday spinning agitprop. I’m thinking that each workstation has a water cooler full of Stoli, to help them through the day.
Iowa Old Lady
That account of the Nevada delegate meeting made my blood boil.
My touchstone on voting is John Lewis who talks about how vital the right to vote is, how it’s almost sacred, how people he knows died for the right to vote. When you screw with people’s right to vote by making it harder or by claiming your vote should have more weight because of your enthusiasm, you are doing something close to immoral. I don’t care if it’s within the rules.
Bob In Portland
@BillinGlendaleCA: @BillinGlendaleCA:
Except that they took her money and then endorsed her.
Patricia Kayden
@Bob In Portland: ???
By the way, where is the obligatory insanely cute kitty/puppy photo to start a new week and a new month? Come on, Front Pagers!
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
I’m sure they think Clinton’s voters are only worth 3/5 of a vote.
Kay
@Bob In Portland:
But it was never a secret that the Victory Fund was allocating a share to state parties. There’s two things going on in that Counterpunch piece. The first is the Victory Fund allocating a share to state parties (which everyone knew) and then the second part, where the state Party share was then sent back to the DNC. I don’t know why they did that, but the DNC can’t use the state parties as “conduits” to hide the real recipients of funds and that would be a really blatant conduit scheme. I think it will have to be allocated back to the state Party in some fashion- you need the next step in the transaction, the DNC side, and I don’t see that.
Baud
@Patricia Kayden: I like the way you think.
Bob In Portland
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class:
@Iowa Old Lady:
Georgia Federal Elections Cmte D P $64,100
But no one stored any of it in the freezer section of their refrigerator, so I guess it’s both legal and moral.
Troublesome Carp fka Geeno
@Bob In Portland: And yet, I still don’t see how very rich people donating metric fuck-tons of money to whatever political organization they care to is some kind of crime in the Citizens United world.
OzarkHillbilly
@Bob In Portland: So they should only be allowed to endorse her if they don’t take the money she has raised for them? Do you have any clue how political parties work? Have you ever even considered why they exist? It’s called “I’ll scratch your back if you scratch mine.” And it is not corruption, it is Human Relations 101.
This has always been one of the main knocks against Bernie. As an Independent he has no natural allies in govt. How is Bernie going to accomplish any of the things he is promising if no one will go to bat for him when it is going to cost them?
Bob In Portland
@Kay:
Do you think that the lobbyist for Sri Lanka gave the Hillary Victory Fund (or one of her other PACs) hundreds of thousands of dollars just so he could help the Democratic Party in Montana? I don’t think you’re quite getting the big picture.
Poopyman
@OzarkHillbilly: I’m thinking I’m heading to middle Nebraska. Marginally better weather (historically), and there should be room to move fast if there’s better weather within a couple hundred miles.
Unless you’re thinking about a BJ eclipse meet-up….
Princess
@Bob In Portland: Knowing how much Hillary is doing to build the Democratic party across the country makes me more likely to support her, not less. That Bernie thinks he can start a “revolution” all by himself is his worst feature.
Baud
@Bob In Portland:
People don’t become billionaires by performing lobbying work for foreign governments.
And if I had a billion dollars, I would donate a fuckton of money to Democrats and Democratic organizations throughout the nation.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
Lets see – we have a choice. We can go with optimistically pragmatic, moving forward appropriately and consolidating gains, or we can nominate an idiot with a core group of supporters who were drum circle participants, giant puppet designers and Mumia advocates.
The choice couldn’t be more stark.
Mary
@OzarkHillbilly: You could also just call it teamwork.
BillinGlendaleCA
@OzarkHillbilly:
Revolution!!! Or something.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@OzarkHillbilly:
The Revolution is inevitable and rises from the collective consciousness of the working class. It needs no actual factional allegiance.
Bob In Portland
@Troublesome Carp fka Geeno: All perfectly legal. That’s why we know that Clinton will be such a strong crusader for taking money out of politics.
Look, even before this began circulating you knew that Hillary takes money from rich people. We know that part of that Mideast arms deal was the money that those headchopping duchies donated to the Clinton Foundation. It’s how things work.
Well, keep pretending that H. Clinton is the most honest politician in this race. Keep pretending that she’s not on the take, er, doing the old play-for-pay scheme, with the added bonus of getting state officials to hold up Clinton for Prez signs. It may be immoral, unseemly, but it certainly isn’t illegal. So let’s get back to Putin, because he’s a bad man and we want a war against Russia so that we can liberate that huge pool of oil and gas in Central Asia.
Cheers.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: I’ve been assured that enthusiasm, ratfucking, and attendance at rallies is much more important than voting.
Kay
@Bob In Portland:
Oh, I do. I get what the writer is hinting at. But what he’s sort of slyly alleging there is using conduits to hide the real recipients of campaign funds, which is illegal.
If he objects to the proportionate share going to state parties he should say that. He’s instead conflating it with “money laundering”.
Bob In Portland
@Mary:
One big team: The Sri Lankan lobbyist, Hillary Clinton and the Montana Democratic Party. The lobbyist is the pitcher, Hillary is the catcher, and I guess the Montana Democratic Party is the left fielder.
Aimai
@Bob In Portland: Its not “but no one stored it in their freezer” it is AND no one stored it in their freezer. People who want to make ordinary political acts by democrats illegal in order to punish the actual oligarchs are too stupid to have their candidate considered or respected.
gene108
@Betty Cracker:
Considering how Sanders supporters have been spending the past nine months or more complaining how super delegates rig the system and should not count, it is interesting they are gaming the system within the rules.
It is a bit of hypocrisy, due solely to the fact there guy is not winning the super delegate count.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: Their paper mache drones are kinda nice (photo). I wonder were you store something that big in manhattan.
OzarkHillbilly
@Poopyman:
Hmmmmm…..
Late August is pretty quiet around here tho obviously impossible to say for sure. My house appears to be in the path of totality but that map doesn’t show it very clearly. At any rate, I am figuring on having guests here for the big event.
Baud
@Kay:
So, basically, Fox News style reporting about Democrats.
Icedfire
I wish I had more energy to be more involved in the remaining primary discussions, but when I see the bullheaded, illogical, and offensive purity pony statements from so many of my fellow Sanders supporters and read the visceral, vitriolic, and nasty responses and blanket statements they inspire from so many Clinton supporters it makes me want to just play Scrabble and drink beer until September while the rest of the Dems keep yelling at each other.
I mean, look at this. I never used to run-on sentence this hard. This primary has broken me. Where’s that beer?
Also too, now that I got some GBCW out of my system, Minnesota may be making progress towards a switch to a primary next cycle. Sounds like the leadership of both state parties and the governor are in support.
JerryN
I’m confused. Aren’t the grown ups the ones who learn from their mistakes (like what went wrong in ’08), plan and organize (as in prep for the county conventions), and honor their commitments (show up at the convention)?
Betty Cracker
@Icedfire: Yep. I voted for Clinton, but I sure as fuck don’t co-sign some of what my fellow Clinton supporters say. I’ll be glad when this primary is wrapped up. Beer and Scrabble sounds like a solid plan for waiting it out.
hueyplong
My memories of this site in 2012 are fuzzy, so I have a question for people who aren’t every-four-years bandwagoners like myself. When the nomination process is over, or at least effectively over, is Bob in Portland going to disappear or is he going to continue to troll all anti-Hitlery for the general?
The nastier tone (crookedness instead of mere cluelessness) makes me nostalgic for the old “Onward to Victory” posts about how the Hilbeast’s campaign themes can’t possibly work and how primary turnout supports the idea of a 60-40 GOP victory in November.
Weaselone
@Bob In Portland:
Oh look, Bob’s pretending that it was necessary to bribe Hillary in order to get her to approve arms sales to the middle East again. Bob, these countries do no need to bribe us to sell them weapons. We do this willingly and whatever additional grease would be required is supplied by the.defense contractors.
dr. bloor
@JerryN: They also assume that the chairs of those county conventions are disseminating the same information to representatives of both candidates.
The Clinton campaign won’t make the same mistake twice. Go after the queen, you’d best kill her, not swing two delegates and proclaim victory.
Eric U.
@Icedfire: that’s good people are talking about getting rid of caucuses. Too much opportunity for butthurt. We already have problems with people feeling that they aren’t valued, to have your vote changed because someone is more enthusiastic (can get off work) is nearly criminal
Joel
The Sanderistas are taking a page from the Paul playbook, eh?
Jim
Comparing it to a trump rally? Really
Come get real,
gvg
Are you located in Vermont perchance?
I still don’t think Sanders would be as bad as Trump. As problematic as Carter perhaps, in that Jimmy didn’t make any establishment allies and was kind of ineffective in office. I far prefer Hillary.
Icedfire
@Eric U.: I believe the current proposal would retain the caucuses for intraparty business, delegate election, establishing platforms, etc. but that candidate preferences would be expressed in a full day primary.
It’s nice that Governor Dayton, unlike Scott Voldemort to the east, hasn’t run the state economy into the ditch and we have the surplus revenue to be able to easily afford the switch.
JerryN
@dr. bloor: I don’t have the links handy at the moment, but those claims of shenanigans are far from being verified. And the Clinton campaign has made the same or similar mistakes twice, eight years apart. The Obama team outmaneuvered them at the conventions back then.
maryQ
This guy wants to break the Democratic Party. I tell you, he does. And so do many of his supporters. Not move it to the left-break it. He wants to destroy everything that happened between 2004 and now. And we let him by giving him the benefit of the doubt. Wake up, and stop schadenfreud-ing the GOP mess.
gvg
@hueyplong: Sigh. no, he hangs around. Usually he spouts propaganda from Russia. I am not kidding. He quotes Russia Today and excuses every thing bad Putin does, plus passes on lots of the US and especially the CIA are sinister masterminds that make every coup or incident in the world happen and they all happen to be against the interests of Russia. Not anti China or anti somewhere else, it always hurts Russia. He has been accused of really being a paid troll and having read these stupid screeds before I can see why. Even if he seems to have a good point or link, don’t ever swallow it without checking. Oh, and articles don’t usually say what he says they do so you have to actually read it. This has been going on a long time so I just scroll past.
Patricia Kayden
@maryQ: Hope you’re wrong. Senator Sanders strikes me as a good guy but since he’s not a member of the Democratic party, I’m not sure how loyal he is to it as an institution. To be fair to Senator Sanders, he has always caucused with Democratic Senators.
I’m optimistic enough to believe that everything will wash out in the end and he and his supporters will support the eventual Democratic nominee.
@Baud: I’m still open to running as your VP. Just give the word.
@Icedfire: Enjoy your beer now. This will soon be over.
rikyrah
@Schlemazel (parmesan rancor):
THE.SUPREME.COURT.
I know we talk about it all the time, but GODDAMN!
The example is sitting there right in front of your face.
Go to ThinkProgress – they have a number of articles about the cases which will come out different now that Fat Tony’s taking a dirt nap.
And, then ask your daughter if she thinks enough of her fellow citizens that will be phucked up if a Republican gets to choose who replaces Fat Tony.
maryQ
@Princess: typical autocrat delusions.
boatboy_srq
@rikyrah: It’s fair, though, not to expect Sanders supporters to behave like Paulbots.
hueyplong
@gvg:
Thanks. The links and the ratio of 1 Bob post for every 6 overall when he’s trolling were the things that prompted my question. Had no idea about the Putin love as his primary theme. That’s odd. I appreciate the heads up. It will allow me more easily to appreciate Bob for his entertainment value, which is preferable to merely getting annoyed.
From what I’ve seen, Putin is quite the object of affection on certain right wing sites, though I doubt that would continue at such an embarrassing level if a GOPer were in the White House.
maryQ
@Patricia Kayden: I see less reason every day to give him the benefit of the doubt. Remember, this guy had high praise for Castro and the Sandinistas. I know many on the left have a soft spot for their overall goals, but praising their tactics have no place here.
Mike R
@OzarkHillbilly: It looks like the path of the eclipse runs right over my location. In fact I am about 10 miles north of the blue line in Nebraska. This could be interesting.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: I wish I could have your babies.
Peale
@rikyrah what’s the Supreme Court ever done for meeeeeere?
Bob In Portland
@Weaselone: @Weaselone:
Not forced. It’s just the price of doing business. Like the Sri Lankan lobbyist wanted so badly to donate ten thousand to the Montana Democratic Party that he didn’t mind donating a few hundred thou to Hillary. And as the money passed through the DNC it never occurred to Schultz to steer money to, say, O’Malley.
So let’s gloat about Putin because his elections are unfair.
aimai
@BillinGlendaleCA: Exactly–and why will no one go to bat for him, or fight for the things he thinks are important? Because they either won’t be in a position to do so (because he failed to raise enough money to flip the senate and the house) or because he hasn’t amassed enough good will, favors, or structural goodies to offer to help them keep their seats while making good votes. Its a sad fact (insert crying emoticon) that the US political system is not conducive to grand gestures and people “taking one for the team.” Not least because politicians who get bounced out of office for reckless voting (in despite of their voters) or for not having a strategy to stay in power after taking hard votes are often replaced by people substantially to their right, not their left.
maryQ
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: commenter I would most like to have a beer with!
OzarkHillbilly
@Mike R: I appear to be about 5 miles south of the center line so I figure I am in the totality zone. (hoping!!!!!) If not, 10 minutes of driving gets me there. Any way, I am definitely looking forward to it as a “once in a life time event.”
aimai
@Bob In Portland: The State Department has a funciton in pushing US corporations and their interests. Sad. But true. Its not a sign of corruption for the Secretary of State to have economic things in her portfolio. They are already there.
Bob In Portland
@gvg: Propaganda from Russia, like this article in THE NATION:
http://www.thenation.com/blog/179057/seven-decades-nazi-collaboration-americas-dirty-little-ukraine-secret
Tripod
This is Rand the Lessers fault. If would have been deemed worthy by his father’s followers, they’d be off pointlessly stealing delegates in GOP caucuses.
Sure, Bernie doesn’t get who his legions are, in the same way he doesn’t get anything that’s happened after 1970, or transactional politics, But it’s immaterial to the campaign outcome. This isn’t 2008, Clinton has a massive delegate lead and will be the Democratic Party nominee.
Framing this with a bit of magnanimity might be the better way to go.
Bob In Portland
@aimai: And part of the Secretary of State’s job is to get money flowing into her favorite charity (Clinton Foundation) while the arms we sell end up in ISIS’s hands. But you cannot connect the money that goes to the Clinton Foundation to ISIS killing and enslaving Christians, Shia, Alawites et al, because it’s part of their portfolios.
Look, if you want to say that you support Clinton because she represents your interests, go right ahead. But beheadings aren’t in my interests. Maybe yours.
OzarkHillbilly
@maryQ: Now you done hurt my feeling (snif) and it’s the last one I have (snif snif)
Poopyman
@OzarkHillbilly: You in the gray band here?
MomSense
@gene108:
It’s worse than gaming. Writing to Clinton delegates to give them incorrect information in order to disenfranchise them and the caucus voters who elected them to represent their votes at the convention is the same kind of tactics Republicans use when they robocall voters in poor precincts to tell them they can be arrested for unpaid parking tickets at their polling places, or to give them the wrong polling locations.
I expect a lot better from Sanders supporters.
Patricia Kayden
@Bob In Portland: LOL. Beheadings are not in any of our interests. And you know that damn well. I have no idea why you’re arguing so irrationally so early in the morning but you really need to get a grip. Secretary Clinton has the right to accept donations to keep her Presidential run afloat. This is the way of the world until Citizens United is repealed or overturned.
rikyrah
Control of state courts becomes a top political battleground
Apr. 3, 2016 3:04 PM EDT
ATLANTA (AP) — Much attention is being paid to the U.S. Supreme Court vacancy, but equally partisan battles are being waged for control of state courts around the nation.
In states where voters elect Supreme Court judges, millions of dollars are being spent to reshape the courts for years to come. Judicial watchdogs say spending by national groups overwhelmingly favors judges on the right of the political spectrum, and is mostly aimed at maintaining or improving the courts’ responses to corporate interests while countering state-level spending by labor unions and other interest groups.
Lawmakers are busy too, debating proposals to tip the balance of power by expanding or reducing their court’s size, or making it easier to impeach judges whose rulings upset the legislative majority.
“State courts are the final word on a host of state law issues that have high stakes for businesses’ bottom lines, legislatures’ agendas and the rights of individuals,” said Alicia Bannon with the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University. “Who sits on state courts can have a profound impact on the legal landscape in a state, and special interest groups and politicians are increasingly paying attention.”
State supreme court elections have begun to resemble the rough-and-tumble, high-dollar campaigns associated with races for governor or Congress. Voters in about two dozen states are casting ballots for state supreme court justices this year. Spending for two Arkansas Supreme Court seats alone topped $1.6 million, setting a state record for TV ad buys in a judicial election.
The Judicial Crisis Network, which is spending millions campaigning against President Barack Obama’s Supreme Court nominee Merrick Garland, and the Republican State Leadership Committee were successful in seeing their candidates elected, including a new chief justice who says he’s guided by “prayer, not politics.”
OzarkHillbilly
@Bob In Portland: And you are so pure and innocent and without blemish we should all just get down on our knees and give grateful worship of you as the 2nd coming of Christ.
gack ack ack gack…..
Patricia Kayden
@maryQ: I was raised in Canada by liberalish Jamaicans so I don’t really share the same view about Castro and the Sandinistas as most Americans. Perhaps Senator Sanders sees Castro and the Sandinistas the way I do (although I don’t really know what he said about either), which may not be a smart thing for someone running for the office of President.
boatboy_srq
@Patricia Kayden: This whole idea that money goes to the GOTea and that all Dems have to impoverished DFHs is ridiculous – especially when every time a conservatist donates to the GOTea the immediate whinge is “why can’t we get some of that sweet campaign cash.” Citizens United effed up US elections in a big bad way, but there’s absolutely no reason why the effects can’t help even if they don’t help Dems as much as the Reichwing. Publicly funded campaigns (as a leveling mechanism and as an anticorruption tool) are dead and buried for this cycle: we either accept that and deal with the consequences, or we watch the GOTea completely take over.
Personally I’m a lot more p!ssed at Sanders for proposing a huge ambitious agenda and then turning around and completely sidestepping the support downballot candidates – candidates he’ll need in Congress if he wants his agenda to have a hope – will need to get elected. And the “Sanders or Sit It Out” attitude among his supporters isn’t helping matters any: we’ve already seen what that attitude does in 2000, 2010 and 2014.
The choice for POTUS and his/her national vision in November will be between either Republic of Gilead (Cruz) or The American Apprentice (Trump) and whoever Dems nominate, but the same choice will be for Congress as well; whoever Dems nominate will need all the campaign funds s/he can get and as many Congresspeople as possible willing to work with him/her. Hemming and hawing about fundraising for those downballot allies isn’t encouraging, and could make the Dems that do get elected less willing to cooperate no matter how attractive the program is; and having supporters unwilling to turn out to vote in the general if their guy isn’t on the ballot isn’t going to make friends among the Congressional candidates either.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@aimai:
This whole country has been designed to avoid two undesirable outcomes – dictatorships and revolution. Especially revolution that was designed to continue to marginalize the most marginalized. Sanders got way out over his skis talking about some bullshit revolution, and now with money pouring in, he’s just making shit up as he goes along with his children’s crusade.
OzarkHillbilly
@Poopyman: About 5 miles southwest of the blue line. The article I read was not real clear about what the gray zone showed (really badly written). Considering my proximity to the center line, I figure I am in the zone of totality but without a clearer definition of what their map showed I am hesitant to state it absolutely.
boatboy_srq
@rikyrah:
Once again the problem with Sanders purists resurfaces: campaigns are horribly expensive efforts, and the downballot campaigns are at least as vital this year as the POTUS contest. Complaining about “corporate interests” and vague mumblings about politicians indebted to campaign backers conveniently ignores that without those backers (at least this cycle) the candidates we prefer fail because they get outspent and out-organized. Sanders as POTUS won’t do SCOTUS any good if all his potential nominees are sourced from lower-level Reichwing-manipulated courts – which with this trend is becoming increasingly likely.
Patricia Kayden
@boatboy_srq: Yep. We have to function in the real world even if we ultimately want campaign finance reform.
It would be stupid for Secretary Clinton to forgo donations from rich people to somehow appear “pure” given that Republicans have zero motivation to forgo donations from their wealthy supporters like the Koch brothers.
And someone should ask Senator Sanders how he’s going to accomplish so many wonderful things without a Democratic House and Senate. Perhaps that would clue him in on the fact that he has to support down ticket Democrats to get anything done.
rikyrah
Mississippi landlord evicts couple from RV park after learning they were an interracial couple.
The Clarion-Ledger 3:24 p.m. CDT April 3, 2016
TUPELO — A Mississippi RV park owner evicted an interracial couple because of the color of their skin.
“Me and my husband, not ever in 10 years have we experienced any problem,” said Erica Flores Dunahoo, who is Hispanic and Native American and whose husband, a National Guardsman, is African-American. “Nobody’s given us dirty looks. This is our first time.”
More than a half-century after the Civil Rights Act of 1964 barred discrimination on the basis of race, Gene Baker acknowledged asking the interracial couple to leave his RV park in Tupelo.
Baker, who lives in Aberdeen, said he only did it because “the neighbors were giving me such a problem.”
rikyrah
true.
so true.
SUNDAY, APR 3, 2016 01:00 PM CDT
Donald Trump is the pinnacle of American stupidity: Why his campaign consummates decades of rising anti-intellectualism
It’s not that we’ve never seen anyone like Trump before. He’s just finishing the job begun by Reagan, Bush & Palin
CONOR LYNCH
During Tuesday’s Republican town hall in Milwaukee, it was not a candidate, but the host, Anderson Cooper, who had the best line of the night, when he told Donald Trump — in the politest way possible — that he was acting like a fatuous little boy. “Sir, with all due respect, that’s the argument of a 5-year-old,” said the CNN anchor, after Trump defended his attack on Ted Cruz’s wife by saying that he “didn’t start it,” in just the same manner a child who is unable to admit any wrongdoing (or someone with narcissistic personality disorder) might.
Of course, while the Donald is nearly 70 years old, and his stout physique and leathery skin display what several decades of gravity, tanning booths and well-done steaks can accomplish, his temperament has remained fixed somewhere in the adolescent period of development. The billionaire has thrived off of petty insults, having defended the size of his junk (admittedly, he’s not the only grown man who feels the need to do this, but the only presidential candidate); threatened to “beat the crap out of” protesters; and, most recently, tweeted an unflattering picture of his opponent’s wife next to his supermodel trophy wife. Trump also speaks at a 4th–grade level — by far the lowest of all presidential candidates — and has offered almost nothing in terms of actual policy, just bravado about his superhuman deal-making abilities.
rikyrah
They don’t disagree with his ideas.
They only disagree with HOW HE SAYS IT.
IF he was speaking in Frank Luntz-approved dogwhistles, they’d all be lined up behind him.
,………………………………..
CNN’s Donald Trump disgrace: Trump coverage is the smoking gun, CNN is the corpse
Also: David Brooks, Ross Douthat and the intellectual right gyrate to pretend Trumpism wasn’t always part of GOP
NEAL GABLER, BILLMOYERS.COM
SUNDAY, APR 3, 2016 09:30 AM CDT
If Donald Trump didn’t constitute, in this year’s favorite word, an existential threat to American democracy, the contortions into which he has thrown the Republican Party, as they simultaneously try to thwart him while espousing his basic policies, would be hilarious.
On the other hand, the contortions into which he has thrown the media are less hilarious, because they ultimately have more bearing on the outcome of the presidential race. What Trump’s candidacy has managed to do is reveal fault lines in the media that usually are buried beneath the typical journalistic blather, the groupthink and the feigned objectivity of the mainstream media — and the reflexive lockstep partisanship in the right-wing media. (The liberals, with a pox on both Trump and his GOP rivals, get to sit this one out.)
Gin & Tonic
@Bob In Portland:
And I have a recollection of DougJ having to clean up threads in which you called me a Nazi.
Poopyman
@OzarkHillbilly: The blue line is maximum totality, where the center of the moon passes in front of the center of the sun. However, since the apparent size of the moon will be slightly larger than the apparent size of the sun, there’s a zone on either side of the blue line where totality occurs for a decreasing amount of time as you move towards the edge – in this case the edge of the gray band.
Missouri:
boatboy_srq
@Patricia Kayden: In point of fact, Sanders should have Obama’s tenure pointed out to him – for what it has accomplished, and for what it hasn’t precisely because Congressional Republicans have been so adamantly and unthinkingly opposed to each and every initiative BHO has put forth. If Sanders is dissatisfied with Obama’s record, then he needs to address the primary cause of the shortcomings – and that cause is at the other end of Pennsylvania Ave from the WH.
Poopyman
@rikyrah: “Consummates”? Hardly. As Einstein (supposedly) said, “The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.”
scav
@Patricia Kayden: Well, duh, his votes/desire are worth more than anyone elses, so all elements of mere reality will fall before him. Between the yuuuge votes that are upset because another candidate is stealing votes that are rightfully theirs, to the people wanting “their” country back, to those thinking because thier votes are more ‘enthusiastic’/white/rich/pure that their votes should count more — I’n not sure fellow Americans have quite got the hang of this democracy thing: it’s not a bank error always in your favor, delivered immediately sort of system.
PurpleGirl
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Probably built in pieces that can put together and taken apart for storage. In pieces it could be put im a storage locker.
Kay
@Bob In Portland:
I feel like campaign finance reformers hurt their own case when they take the donation to Clinton PAC, the transfer to state parties and then say “money laundering” because those two things get conflated all the time and people who OPPOSE campaign finance reform use that legal distinction to their advantage.
You’re NOT actually talking about a straight quid pro quo unless you can prove that- what you ARE talking about is influence and access.
That is the whole argument in Citizens. The majority said the funds WON’T create undue influence. The minority said they will. NO ONE argued that people should be doing things that are illegal and a straight quid pro quo is illegal.
You have to get it straight, because if you don’t the defense to the accusation of illegality is “it’s legal!” and then we never reach the undue influence and access issue. I’m really wary of “why ELSE would so and so do such a thing” arguments, too, because that’s not the way this is supposed to work. That’s a bad faith way to approach it. It isn’t up to the accused to explain why the vague theory doesn’t fit the crime. The accuser states what they’re alleging and then the person accused defends on that. It’s slippery to demand the accused defend on the whole universe of “why” without asking the specific question.
TriassicSands
It seems like supporters of both Clinton and Sanders need to grow up. In the end, what matters is having a Democrat win in November. Whining about the two candidates is pointless, since either one will fill our basic need — make sure no Republican wins.
Threatening to “stay home” if a particular candidate doesn’t get the nomination is childish and self-defeating. That may be more understandable coming from young Sanders supporters, but the correct response is to calmly explain what is at stake — I’d start with the SCOTUS. Anyone who lets the behavior of a candidate’s supporters affect their own behavior needs to do a serious maturity check. There are undoubtedly supporters of both candidates who I loathe — but I’m not voting for the supporters.
I’m no fan of Clinton’s, but I will vote for her with every bit of the urgency I will have for Sanders, because the world, BJ commenters, and I will all be totally screwed if our next president is a Republican. Older, and one hopes more mature Democrats have an overwhelming responsibility to bring as many disgruntled Democratic voters to the polls in November as possible. My preference for Sanders, whatever my reasoning, is unimportant. “Lesser evil” elections suck, and we’ve had far too many, but this isn’t a lesser evil election. Once the GOP went bat-shit crazy, elections changed into Greater Evil elections. Our individual gripes about the Democratic candidates are trivial — all that matters is that the next Supreme Court vacancies are filled by a Democratic president.
CONGRATULATIONS!
Some on this thread are advocating that the Democratic Party (and their candidates) unilaterally disarm. Just say no to the same Citizens United money that’s putting Republicans in statehouses and governor’s chairs across the nation. The same money that’s got Congress locked down until 2020.
Just how stupid do you think we are?
OzarkHillbilly
@Poopyman: Thanx, That’s what I thought.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@rikyrah:
Breaking up the big banks will take care of that attitude.
Genghis
@Mary:
““We caught the Hillary campaign cheating, we caught the Nevada Democratic Party secretary cheating,” said Angie Sullivan, another member of the credentials committee for the Clark County Democratic Convention. “When it was apparent Bernie started winning, they really turned up the heat.”
Sullivan alleges that the Clark County Democratic Party (CCDP) was sharing information with the Hillary Clinton campaign that was not being shared with the Bernie Sanders campaign, and this is why Kramer copied a Sanders campaign contact on an email correspondence with CCDP officials and Clinton campaign officials.
However, Clinton campaign attorney Marc E. Elias told a different story in a threatening email sent to CCDP Chair Chris Miller. Elias ordered Miller to remove Kramar from the credentials committee due to her sharing allegedly proprietary information belonging to the Clinton campaign with the Sanders campaign.
But Kristal Glass, a Sanders delegate who was also a member of the credentials committee, told US Uncut that Kramar was simply acting as an independent arbiter in accordance with party bylaws by making sure all parties were included in conversations about the convention.
“It was her job to make sure everything was fair leading up to the Friday night early registration,” Glass said. “[Kramar] CC’d the Sanders campaign about a conversation happening that they weren’t included in, which was against the convention process.”
Then, Glass alleged that Michelle White, political director for Hillary Clinton’s Nevada campaign, was pressuring volunteers at the registration site to register alternates as delegates.
“We had a member of a campaign walking around with a computer showing volunteers, saying, ‘They’re approved, so go ahead and add them,’” Glass told US Uncut. “It has to be brought to the credentials committee to vet the entire thing, that’s what our responsibility is.”
“You don’t change the rules at the 11th hour to favor your candidate,” Sullivan said.”
Allow me to reiterate – I have no idea which story is accurate or which interpretation is valid.
Best…H
maryQ
@Patricia Kayden: “which may not be a smart thing for someone running for the office of President” Exactly. and he will be savaged for it against whatever frugal the GOP coughs up. Perhaps he will still pull out a win against Trump, depending o the efficiency of Trump’s Etch-a-Sketch, but against any actual “establishment” Republican, even Cruz, the painting of Bernie Sanders as a Communist and Enemy of America will be effective. “Bernie Sanders wants to have bread lines in America” “Bernie Sanders preferred Fidel Castro over John F Kennedy” blah blah bla. These people have managed to convince large swaths of the US population that Barack Obama is an enemy of America who is actively colluding with our enemies to deliver the US to some kind of communist terrorist whatnot. With Sanders, there are actual quotes.
A large fraction of the Democratic Establishment managed to rein in Reagan’s crazy-ass truly despicable foreign policy in the mid-80’s, without cozying up to left-wing murderers. It’s what grown ups do.
ruemara
@Genghis: not anything from US Uncut. They’re the paper of hype and conspiracy for every Berniac I know.
The NV shenanigans pushed me from “either is meh but I will work for the winner in the general” to “fuck Sanders & anyone who can look at that bullshit and still claim some ethical high ground as part of his.campaign”.
FlipYrWhig
@MomSense:
I don’t.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@CONGRATULATIONS!:
Exactly. The teatards don’t care who’s funding the campaigns of people who will vote their way, because they vote every election and threaten to primary anyone who doesn’t vote their way. Progressives are useless whiners.
ruemara
@Bob In Portland: fuck off with the attack on John Lewis for rightly smacking down a bunch of liberals attempting to make a student protest organiser at his college into a brilliant unsung white hero creating the civil rights movement. Asshole. Triple fuck you and fuck your attempt to make downticket fundraising into bribery.
FEMA Camp Counselors
@hueyplong:
No, Bob sticks around full time, although he was gone for a good year or so before coming back when the primaries started. His defining traits are (1) smug, self-righteous preening (Did you know he worked with the Black Panthers? Don’t worry, he’ll tell you.) and (2) a sincere belief in a wide array of conspiracy theories concerning the Deep State that controls us all. I genuinely remember him going on about JFK assassination theories at some point.
mercery
He’s kind of like a bizarro version of my uncle, a libertarian conspiracy nut who will keep going on about mercury light bulbs and the fed until my aunt mercifully brings him back to Earth. Like him, Bob seems to believe himself to be the protagonist of his own little conspiracy thriller, fighting the good fight and waking up the sheeple.
Cacti
As the largest county in Nevada, Clark also has the highest African-American and Hispanic populations in the state.
Just a coinkydink I’m sure that the “revolution” would want to dilute their votes.
Here’s a video of the Bernfeeler DNC credentials chairwoman having a meltdown when she got voted out for her shenanigans.
ruemara
@Bob In Portland: If you don’t know about Van de Huevel’s problematic ties to Russia which makes the Nation’s “reporting” less than clean, we can’t help you.
J R in WV
@Bob In Portland:
In your own post it says “None of this is illegal.” which means that by calling it money laundering you commit libel, which is a civil crime if I am not mistaken.
And the idea that by taking all legal contributions to win in a highly politicized campaign with infinite money available to the other side, Hillary Clinton’s statement that she will work to reform campaign finance is absurd is an poorly grounded opinion, not a fact. In fact, one must be elected to actually DO anything about cleaning up campaign finance regulation.
Nelle
Yep. John Lewis us one of my heroes. He came to the university where I taught on a weekend I had to be away. I apparently was quite convincing when encouraging my students to go because they came back with a consolation autograph that they got from him for me. I was touched. And if you don’t show him respect, I scroll.
WarMunchkin
@Kay:
At some point I’m just gonna write a Chrome extension for Balloon Juice that removes all posts that aren’t made by Kay, for the remainder of primary season.
J R in WV
@Bob In Portland:
Again, if it is legal, it is by definition NOT “money laundering!”
But you don’t care about legal definitions, even when you attempt to talk about law breaking, which the DNC and the Clintons are very careful about, which is obvious, since they have been investigated from here to San Diego and back, for decades, and have never gotten in real trouble.
You would rather cozy up to real criminals from the Russian Mafia than work for the cleanest candidate in this country, wouldn’t you? No respect for you, Bob in Portland.
ETA to fix up snarfs.
Genghis
@ruemara:
That’s an ad hominem, applied to a website. Their interpretation may be correct, even if all they have done is lie in the past.
What it looks like to me is that both organizations are using tactics few of us would agree with except to justify our candidate winning. If our candidate loses as a result, it’s cheating.
To all on the blog – maybe the “Jane you ignorant slut” component could be abandoned soon? You expect the campaigns to behave a certain way but can’t do the same on a thread.
IMOYMMV, as a Sanders supporter, about all the H campaign has to worry about is the FBI investigation. Their timing is suspiciously relevant – and having seen most nooks and crannies of the government become political battlefields over the last few decades, would any of you be shocked by a nasty call for indictment the week before the general election, complete with damning leaked quotes from witnesses?
Best….H
Bobby Thomson
So in other words, the assholes on social media ARE representative of Sanders supporters IRL? I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Miss Bianca
@rikyrah:
Well, great. Now it’s the state supreme courts. Why do I sometimes feel that all our best efforts on the not-far-right end of the spectrum amount to rat-fuckery whack-a-mole?
Gin & Tonic
@ruemara: Bob trots that article out regularly. He also thinks Stephen Cohen is an objective reporter.
hedgehog the occasional commenter
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: Right there with you. My sister-in-law hasn’t just drunk the Bernie-Aid, she’s fucking swimming in it. Finally had to unfollow her on Facebook. She’s proclaimed she may not vote if Hillz gets the nomination. mr. hedgehog had to talk me off the ledge before I ruined family harmony ripping her a new one. Voting is a non-negotiable with me. (Yeah, I’m still pissed, why do you ask?)
J R in WV
@OzarkHillbilly:
NASA says the greatest perior of totality is in Carbondale, Il, which is in the little tiny tippy part of Illinois, and just 50 or 60 miles north of Paducah, Ky. Which is a long days drive from us, so in a while I’ll try to make hotel reservations out there somewhere.
Maybe rent a houseboat on that giant lake down there for a week? We like being on (flat) water. White water is right outa here now that we’re brittle olds.
Immanentize
@Miss Bianca:
Because they do. This state court thing has been going on for some time — especially around the death penalty. First was Rose Bird (one of the greatest Judges evah IMHO) and then there was Penny White in Tennessee, the make-over of the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals into a wholly Republican affair and the attacks on Florida Supreme Court Judges. It has been really ugly at the state level for a while. Even here in Liberal (but Trump-loving) Massachusetts, our governor will have the opportunity to remake our Supreme Judicial Court with 5 — count them! — 5 picks in the next two years.
Genghis
@Gin & Tonic:
Objective reporters? Can’t name one…
That’s the unfortunate reality of news for profit – no single source is enough. Even multiple sources aren’t enough – I’m often left with the feeling that the truth has been obscured, embroidered, or simply not been found.
“Cui bono” can cut through some of the misinformation but it leaves a mark on your soul.
Best…H
El Caganer
I read the original post without my glasses and couldn’t quite figure out what the “media’s excrement” was about. Not that our beloved MSM comes up short in the excrement department.
Paul in KY
@Schlemazel (parmesan rancor): Ask her why Hillary is a nogo for her? Probably a bunch of Repub BS she has taken as true.
Luigidaman
Bernie Sanders is a joke. Time to pull the plug on this charlatan.
ruemara
@Genghis: OK so you’re not really interested in whether it’s objective reporting. And based on the writing style, which is very much opinion mixed with facts, it is not a source of news, its the best place for liberals to feel angry and have theories confirmed. Then you toss in the conservative talking point about FBI investigation of HRC. Okeydoke.
Paul in KY
@hueyplong: His main gig is shilling for Mother Russia. He’s always got that to fall back on.
Paul in KY
@Patricia Kayden: Castro & Sandinistas were/are better than what they overthrew (IMO).
Paul in KY
@rikyrah: I lived in that shitty state for 8 months (Keesler AFB). Of course, I’m a white male, so I was OK. Felt very sorry for any black person in that benighted state. Every black person I ran into there was very nice. Not so every white.
gwangung
@Paul in KY:
Basically, Hillary is what you have when you take the Republican treatment of Obama, triple the time exposure and apply it to a more normal human.
Do that to anyone, and you’ll find cracks and flaws to exploit.
kindness
I visited with a good friend of mine Saturday I haven’t seen much lately. He’s a Bernie guy and proudly stated he wouldn’t vote for Hillary in the General Election if she won the nomination. I wasn’t all that shocked. The guy voted for Nader instead of Gore (and again in 2004). I just said I’d vote for the Democratic nominee and changed the subject. I mean, he obviously wants to be a dick about the whole thing so why bother fighting him? I don’t expect or care to change his mind, even when he’s being a fool. Bernie bros…….not much different than TeaHaddists really. Purity trolls more accurately.
marduk
Huh, I guess when the bosses give their employees time off to go out and vote for a specific candidate they aren’t really all that committed to get out and support that candidate after all. Who could have guessed it?
Talk about being hoist on your own petard.
StellaB
In 2008 my family was divided down the middle, but this year the Bernistas quickly persuaded the Bern-curious in the family to back Hillary for which I am grateful. Thanks Berniebros!
Uncle Ebeneezer
@Cacti: I’m surprised more people haven’t mentioned this aspect of the potential SuperDelegate switcheroo to give Bernie the nomination (even if HRC wins both the popular and delegate vote count fair and square.) Given the geographic and demographics of the states where HRC has been mopping up victories, asking the SD’s to give the nomination to Bernie anyway would be a colossal act of disenfranchisement against the same voters who already face these threats from the GOP’s not-so-subtle voting law restrictions. I understand why Bernie is leaving that option open for practical (selfish) reasons, but it really doesn’t look good for a candidate who already has the reputation of being out of touch with the needs/issues of Black voters to be ok with the nullification of millions of fair-and-square Black votes.
Matt McIrvin
I still think most of the things we’re seeing the actual Democratic campaigns doing here is just ordinary primary-season stuff, nothing particularly nefarious on either side.
The rhetoric I’m seeing from the most extreme Sanders fans does me think they wouldn’t vote for anyone but Sanders in the general, but these are people who were never particularly fond of the Democratic Party anyway; they want to blow it up, not to help it win anything, and if it wasn’t Sanders it’d be Jill Stein or Rand Paul or Nader or somebody (H. A. Goodman, one of the most prominent dead-enders, proudly announced he was voting for Rand Paul over Clinton before Bernie came along).
Currently 40% of Democrats support Bernie Sanders. There is no way that 40% of Democrats are neo-Naderites. The online world is distorting what we see.
Genghis
@ruemara:
You have misunderstood me. I am very much interested in objective reporting. I simply can’t find any. The closest for me was Jon Stewart and I don’t believe he would call himself objective.
What I am interested in is the truth. Very difficult to nail down, recognize, understand, etc.
Fine with me if the FBI investigation fizzled this afternoon, or whenever, and I suppose that’s a likely outcome. But until the investigation is concluded it is perilous to ignore it and the potential consequences. Has the FBI become a political battleground? Or does it remain chaste?
Best…H
Tegdirb
@Bob In Portland: Still peddling those sour grapes? It must be less fun here since you won’t get all the adoration you would on the GoS.
No One You Know
It’s taken me this long to finally get that the grand unifier is misogyny. Women can also be misogynists, but it’s the Berniebro response to the GOP that really makes it obvious that successful women are the Real Problem. It’s not true of all his supporters, just as I don’t believe it true of all Republicans…but it’s true of enough of them.
What that doesn’t explain, “The Right to be Disruptive Because I Can” does explain. These guys would turn cars over and set them on fire, just for the attention.
Calouste
@boatboy_srq:
Sanders has been a Senator for the whole of Obama’s tenure, and allegedly caucuses with Obama’s party . If he needs anything pointed out to him about Obama’s tenure, he’s either been asleep for the last 7 years or willfully ignorant.
Miss Bianca
@Genghis:
This sounds suspiciously like “it would be irresponsible not to speculate” territory to me…
Genghis
@Miss Bianca:
You are saying more about yourself with that comment.
The investigation is a reality. Are you suggesting that we ignore it?
Best….H
Chyron HR
@marduk:
Good news, there’s a political party where your ideals will be welcomed.
P.S. It’s not ours.
ksmiami
I@Luigidaman: That’s how I think of him (Sanders). A total fraud who is either naive about how American politics work, or just lying. He has no real answers or accomplishments and just blaming rich people for all the issues won’t work in a country where every trailer park denizen believes he will be rich one day.
boatboy_srq
@Calouste: That IS the point…
Miss Bianca
@Genghis:
COINTELPRO was also a reality, dude.Are you really shocked, SHOCKED to discover that the FBI – or any government agency – may have its own political agendas? That a federal investigation may be politically motivated? *That*’s what we’re saying, FFS.
Ella in New Mexico
While a bunch of the usual offenders are, ONCE AGAIN, spending all their time here rolling in a massive dog-pile fist- fight over the last remaining pieces of crap candy that fell out of the “I hate Bernie-I hate Hilary” pinata today….
What, exactly, ARE we going to do as a nation to fix the terrible, awful Primary process? Caucuses are a fucking undemocratic joke, the schedule is ridiculous, and now, with all the voter suppression laws enacted nationwide, even the states with legitimate voting Primaries are disenfranchising voters who up to now were able to vote in elections.
Don’t we, as Democrats, WANT more people to vote? How are we going to fight this fight if we don’t do some housecleaning ourselves and make the Party more open and transparent in it’s elections? Shit like what went down in Nevada–AND Arizona, for that matter might work for your candidate or mine in the short run, but it’s why we’re losing the next generation–THEY SEE A RIGGED SYSTEM.
I mean, Jesus, i get it that some of you guys here have nothing better to do than have fun smacking each other up and downside the head with socks full of tennis balls over who’s a bigger asshole–
But real, not good shit is going down. Which is what this thread was supposed to be about, right?
Paul in KY
@gwangung: I’m sure you are correct on that!
Jeannedalbret
@Genghis: I can’t figure it out either..
This quoted from from the Las Vegas Sun, which does not appear to have a pro-Bernie bias:
“Publisher and president Brian Greenspun, former publisher Hank Greenspun’s son, was a college roommate of President Bill Clinton. Greenspun welcomed Clinton, while president, as a house guest during a Clinton fundraising trip to southern Nevada.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Vegas_Sun
Miss Bianca
@Ella in New Mexico:
Here’s the problem the way I see it, as a participant in the CO caucuses, where the issue of “primary v. caucus” came up:
Virtually everyone in the room agreed that a primary system – and apparently, what everyone wanted was an “open primary” system – was better than a caucus system. (I’m not crazy about an open primary system myself, but perhaps that’s because I’m more partisan than the average bear.) Virtually everyone in the room supported a party platform plank stating just that. There has been a bill introduced to that effect in the state legislature, which died. Our plank specifically supported introducing another bill. This article lays out the current “state of the state” pretty well.
It usually always comes down to money in CO. The state would have to pay for primaries, the parties pay for caucuses. The state usually shows stunning reluctance to pick up the tab for anything it doesn’t actually have to, plus we have crazy “taxed enough already!!” contingents who would probably jump into the fray against the notion of the state picking up the tab for anything it doesn’t actually have to. My .02 cents, FWIW.
Genghis
@Jeannedalbret:
It’s a bit of a mess, but wasn’t Kramer’s offense cc’ing the S campaign on an email that she thought should have gone to both campaigns?
It really comes down to – who do you believe? You’d have to be an insider at both campaigns to know what the hell really went on. I don’t underestimate what the surrogates for each candidate are capable of once they’ve chosen to engage in pig wrestling. (“Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig likes it.”)
Best…H
liberal
@Gin & Tonic:
LOL. What is an “objective reporter”? Everyone has biases; if nothing else, there’s no perfectly objective algorithm that will decide for you which stories to cover and which data/sources to cite.
You could argue that a particular piece is too biased for a particular reason. But if you want to claim that The Nation is biased, what are you going to say about the news section of The New York Times, given what it did during the runup to the invasion of Iraq?
Ella in New Mexico
@Miss Bianca: If “po’ little New Mexico” can fund it’s primaries–with paper ballots, easy registration and early voting AND no precinct “Voting Convenience” sites, then I would think CO could spend a little of it’s new, apparently EXTREMELY successful income stream to do the same. ;-)
We suck at a lot of things in NM State Government, but then, we also do a lot of good things, too. I’m pretty grateful for how easy, fair and reasonable we made it to vote here, particularly improvements and changes that occurred here under Richardson in response to the nightmare of the 2000 election. I wish we could make it this way for the whole country.
elftx
Bernistas are no different than the Paulites..and that worked out well.
Elie
The Whatcom County Democratic convention is on May 1st. I am a Hillary delegate and I take this post as a warning and will be prepared, as much as I can. Won’t make much difference here since Bernie won so soundly (I think it would have been less soundly in a primary instead of a caucus where the counting methodology is not exactly one person one vote). Anyway, I will be ready…
Origuy
@Genghis: A link posted here yesterday from The American Prospect:
The author, IIRC, wrote the guidelines for the DHS on classified materials.
Miss Bianca
@Ella in New Mexico:
Fffft…dude, what income stream? Oh, *that* one…
Our tax situation in the state is so f*ed up due to a perfect storm of TABOR (Taxpayer Bill of Rights) legislation, which prohibits any “rainy day” stockpiling of tax revenue collected, Amendment 23, which mandates that despite that, K-12 funding can’t fall below a certain level, and the Gallagher Amendment, which artificially depresses homeowner property tax at the expense of business property tax – so that business tax is approximately 10 times higher than on a similar residential property – that I’m amazed we can even function. So, cannabis taxes? Came just in time to bail the state out of a huge treaking financial hole that a lot of forward-thinking Grover Norquist types had dug us into. And even at that, the state decided to run a ballot issue (which passed, btw) to slap *additional* taxes on cannabis sales to pay for new school construction costs. I voted against it just because I was so offended by the notion that we were so cheap as a state that we were going to make pot smokers pay for new schools.
Then our local school district board freaks out over the thought that cannabis might be sold within the town limits and votes unanimously against the notion. Irony, I can haz some, pleaze?
dr. luba
@elftx:
I suspect a Venn diagram of Berniebros and Paulbots wold show considerable overlap.
elftx
Seeing the video of Christine Kramer’s little tantrum where she sat down and expected people to join her in a rousing rendition of We Shall Overcome all the while feigning ignorance of what she had done was a real lesson in how Bernistas view the world. It was so offensive.
Bob In Portland
@Gin & Tonic: No no no. The people in Ukraine you root for are Nazis. Big difference.
From the 2014 article in The Nation:
You see, most Ukrainians aren’t Nazis or fascists. Just the guys America put in power in Ukraine with the coup.
I thought you didn’t want to discuss this. You do? I can pull up more quotes.
You know, the guys who killed a million Jews in Ukraine. Those guys. The seventy-year history involves the OSS and then the CIA in using the fascists against the Soviet Union. And the dudes wearing the wolf’s hook and the swastikas are as close as you can get to being a Nazi today without getting a signed membership card from the German High Command.
We know that the CIA spent lots of taxpayer money on importing war criminals into this country, especially Ukrainian war criminals. So, again, all I know is that springtime is lovely in Kiev and you’re happy that the people who you supported in that coup have run the Ukrainian economy into the ground. What’s the exchange rate for the hryvnia? I think we’re down under four cents to the dollar.
It was a failed attempt by Nuland and that crew in the State Department to put it to the Russians, and perhaps shut down the natural gas that flows into Europe from Russia. Now you’ve got a rump state, a destroyed economy and a lot of angry Nazis who want to overthrow the Chocolate King. Job well done, Vicky.
Chris
@Paul in KY:
There was a pretty good thread here a few years ago about the left and right’s wars in Cold War era Latin America. The point was made (I forget by who) that Castro was a unique case, because the regime had stayed in power for so long and entrenched itself so completely in Cuba that you could make a solid case that it had done more damage than any of its right wing enemies.
The Sandinistas are a different story. As I recall, they transitioned to democracy less than a decade after their revolution in elections that were certified free and fair by international observers. The Reagan/Bush government simply refused to recognize that, or to stop financing terrorists in Nicaragua, until an election came along that put the party they wanted in power.
Castro and the Sandinistas were certainly allies, but I wouldn’t call their governments morally equivalent. And much as I don’t like the first, I have no particular problem with praising the latter except in “it’s not smart politics” kind of ways.
Bob In Portland
@Kay: And the Sri Lankan lobbyist has strong feelings for the Montana Democratic Party.
Nobody said it was illegal. Unethical? Immoral? Revolting? Apparently not around here. But if you think that Clinton is going to take the oligarchs’ money out of politics, well, no.
Go ahead and worship your icon. It doesn’t resolve the problem that lots of the wealthiest of the wealthy around the world are sinking money into Clinton’s candidacy. You may think that they’re getting nothing in return. Or they would have supported Hillary anyway (then why find such roundabout ways to get money into her PACs).
Hillary goes up to Flint to promise the mayor some help. The mayor of Flint endorses Hillary. Clinton’s buddy billionaire Pritzker creates a half-million-dollar fund for Flint with Chelsea and the mayor controlling the money.
Is there somehow a quid pro quo somewhere in there? Was it criminal to buy an endorsement? Of course not.
Bob In Portland
@J R in WV: Sue me. Money-laundering, moving money around in such a way as to avoid taxes or attention does not have to be against the law. So sue me. You from West Virginia? See if you can get some money for your lawyer from here:
And when your local Democratic politician endorses Hillary be content in knowing that money doesn’t matter in politics.
Grumpy Code Monkey
While the convention I went to wasn’t anywhere near that nuts, it does kind of jibe with what I saw. The Sanders supporters were convinced that the rules were being jiggered by the Clinton camp to deny Sanders any delegates. The Sanders camp asked for and got a number of concessions about committee representation, but that just emboldened them and they got more obnoxious over the course of the afternoon.
They were also convinced that scheduling the convention during SXSW was a deliberate attempt to disenfranchise Sanders supporters; obviously, Hillary traveled back in time to rewrite the bylaws specifically to screw over Sanders.
I was glad Bernie was in the race to pull the conversation in a much-needed direction, but at this point his supporters are doing more to get Trump and/or Cruz get elected than Bernie.
Norbrook
@Bob In Portland: It’s called “raising money for downticket races,” idiot. It’s actually something Bernie promised to do as well, except that he’s too pure to sully his hands with things like that – or even shell out some of his own campaign money to do. No, it’s not “buying loyalty,” it’s being a good party leader. Then again, Bernie just got around to being a Democrat, so maybe he’s not aware of that. Oh, wait, he signed a pledge with the DNC to do that. Oh, and he’s been historically willing to not support anyone following him.
chopper
@Norbrook:
Lol, yeah the attitude smacks quite a bit of Flanders’ refusal to buy life insurance because he considers it “a form of gambling”.
Genghis
@Miss Bianca:
Right, of course. And what would be the most effective way to skew an election with an FBI investigation? If it’s nothing, the best approach might be to drag it out as long as possible. If it’s even a minimal something, timing could become a factor. Either of these are possibilities at the moment.
The future remains unwritten.
@Origuy:
“Based on what is known so far…” makes the rest of the statement something less than absolutely certain. And as we have all seen in politics, evidence often matters less than perception. Unfortunately.
Main point, if the FBI investigation is all that is in H’s way to the nomination (forgetting for the moment the general unpredictability of life) she and her followers have nearly nothing to worry about.
Accurate enough?
Best…H
Genghis
@Origuy:
Not trying to start any sh*t, just seeking info and opinion.
Why on earth did H choose to use a private server while she was SOS? Was she advised against it?
Best…H
Just Some Fuckhead
OMFG, those bastard Sanders supporters are totes ruining everyone’s primary AGAIN. What the holy fuck?
Gin & Tonic
@Bob In Portland:
Yes, yes, yes. You called me a Nazi. Personally.
I’d link to it, but one of the mods (pretty sure it was DougJ) scrubbed that thread.
Miss Bianca
@Genghis:
Dunno…maybe because her predecessors in the State Department had done the same thing with no apparent repercussions or damage to the ship of state? In other words, IOKIYAR.
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/268228-report-colin-powell-and-condoleezza-rice-staff-received-classified-emails-on
http://www.newsweek.com/colin-powell-emails-hillary-clinton-424187
Among many, mamy other citations….
Grumpy Code Monkey
@Genghis:
Ars Technica had an interesting article on it. Some excerpts:
For reference, this is the only mobile device that the NSA would approve.
Personally, I think Clinton could and should have sucked it up and used a desktop for State business, but I can see the argument for wanting to be mobile (and able to respond anywhere at any time).
Itinerantpedant
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: That is the most awesomely succinct outline of our system I’ve ever seen. Mind if I steal it?
Genghis
@Miss Bianca:
Republicans = low bar. ;-)
There are differences of degree it appears: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/mar/12/hillary-clintons-email-did-she-follow-all-rules/
Again – who knows for certain what the real reasons were? For example, from the Politifact article: “Although some former secretaries of state occasionally used personal emails for official business, Clinton is the only one who never once used an @state.gov email address in the era of email.”
I only see pragmatism on H’s part as opposed to actual nefarious intent, but it seems what H did is on a different level from Powell (who I respect somewhat) and Condi Rice (who I do not). As far as deleted emails go, the Bush admin’s destruction of what, 80,000 internal emails dwarfs H’s deletion of 30,000 personal emails from her server.
The whole issue may be nothing, but I for one wish she had actually followed the example of Powell, who claims he occasionally sent an unclassified email on his personal account but only used a secure government computer for classified emails.
From the Hill article you referenced: “It’s a lot different from what the rest of us were doing and what Mrs. Clinton is doing,” Powell said. “Should she have had a private server? … Did she use it for classified information? I don’t know and I don’t want to know.”
YMMV
Best…H
Genghis
@Grumpy Code Monkey:
Agreed.
Best…H
Heliopause
This has to be a Doug J style troll.
marduk
@Chyron HR: Haha yeah, your sleazy political manuevers were meant with the best of intentions. Anything that undoes your gaming is an affront to decency.
Bosses intimidating employees into voting for a certain candidate is wholly appropriate. Enthusiastic supporters converting delegates at a caucus is an insult to democracy.
My party doesn’t follow those double standards. My party is the party of honest participatory democracy. Maybe it’s you who doesn’t belong.
Miss Bianca
@Genghis:
Do I think it would have been better if she had used a State computer, maybe even exclusively? Sure. Particularly in retrospect.
Do I think the investigation is going to turn up anything really damning? I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say, “no.” ; )
smintheus
More of this nonsense? We’re supposed to evaluate candidates not based on the candidates themselves, but on how much we like their supporters?!
Genghis
@Miss Bianca:
Hope you are right. To go even further, I hope it isn’t a factor in the election.
Best…H
J R in WV
@Chyron HR:
Chyron,
Don’t you think maybe Marduk was snarking just a little bit?
Maybe?
Thanks,
JR
boatboy_srq
@Ella in New Mexico: What exactly, besides GOTV and protecting/restoring VRA, do you have in mind? There’s not a whole lot that can be done before 2020: it will take the next census to update the districting, and it will take better turnout in local and state elections to get the votes necessary to keep the GOTea from further crippling representation. We don’t need POTUS or federal officials to acheive that: we need GOTV on the ground, and we need worthwhile pols at the local/state level.
I doubt any Juicer is seriously in the “bash-the-other-candidate” camp the way we see on GOS or in NYT: most of us are unhappy with one or both candidates but still not prepared to stay home and sit this one out. More than a few are active in their local party machinery. BJ is (usually) a safe space to vent about such things.
Sean Belew
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: That is the best comment I have read, ever! Fuck Bernie Sanders!
glory b
@rikyrah: Soooooo happy that here in PA, our Supreme Court is now just PACKED with Dems. All of the candidates running last time won, by around a 15 point average, if I’m not mistaken.
Also important because the Supreme Court here gets the final word on redistricting.
I live in a black neighborhood and got a flier with blindfolded Justice, naming Trayvon Martin, Eric Garner and others, saying to remember what’s at stake. It worked.