Serious Republicans are having a sad about Trump, and the only prescription is more Paul Ryan.
I don’t think Ryan’s chiseled pecs have quite the same effect on reg’lar Applebee’s going Americans as they do on David Brooks, but I fear that if Ol’ Blue Eyes gets the nomination, the force of the collective Beltway orgasm will tear the fabric of the space-time continuum.
Can you imagine what the propaganda would be like from July to November?
Hungry Joe
Bre’r Ryan begs the GOP not to throw him into the race.
Mnemosyne
Doug, do you have banhammer privileges? A nasty racist troll popped his head up in Tom’s thread below.
ETA: It’s comment #61 replying to rikyrah, if that helps.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
a couple of weeks ago I was couch ridden and I thought I’d read McKay Coppins book on the GOP field. There’s a chapter on Paul Ryan that reads like it was written by Ryan’s PR flack. Or his mom. He’s the most gosh darn earnestest poverty reformer you ever did meet. The Romney campaign was so frustrating for Sweet Paulie Blue-Eyes, cause he wanted to run on good old Jack Kemp’s inspiring, inclusive platform. I don’t think Ayn Rand was mentioned once. The next chapter was on Ari Fletcher, and I gave up.
Mnemosyne
I still say that Alan Keyes is going to walk out on that stage as the nominee at the RNC. He’s the guy you go with when you need a placeholder in a high-profile race that you’re going to lose by an embarrassing margin.
hueyplong
As Pierce knows, Ryan should never be mentioned without the modifier “zombie-eyed granny starver.”
Matt McIrvin
This seems to be a banner day for strange burn-the-world-down rants from people who don’t post here much.
Tom Levenson
@Mnemosyne: Banned. That’s a troll that’s stalked me — and ABL and some others, I believe) on Twitter and over at my little-used personal blog. If the twitter behavior is predictive, said troll will likely pop up with other nyms/email accts., so we may be putting up with this for a while.
dedc79
The wingnuts hate Ryan (even though he’s a wingnut himself) because they think he’s soft on immigration. He would be even less palatable to the trump supporters than cruz.
But yes, the press would swoon over him.
dmsilev
@Mnemosyne: For a while, I was convinced that Alan Keyes was following me around the country (I was in Maryland when he ran there, and shortly after I moved to Illinois, we got that Senate race). Truly a creepy sensation.
sinnedbackwards
Princess, I can imagine a lot. The schaden meets the freude when I imagine what Drumpf will be twittergandizing and Cruz evangelgandizing. The village media can massage ol’ granny-starver all they want, Hillary will still win it.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I’m sure Ryan would love to play the reluctant hero answering his party’s call. I wonder if he’s dumb enough to think he win with Trump the Rogue Elephant trampling through his fields and pissing on his tent.
jl
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Ryan is no Jack Kemp. Kemp’s ideas about helping people out of poverty were more than an asterisk in a federal budget that slashed the social safety net. Kemp’s ideas didn’t work even half as well as he thought they did, but that is another matter.
Mnemosyne
@Tom Levenson:
Thanks! I don’t mind arguing with the garden-variety trolls, but that one’s the website equivalent of messing with a hive of killer bees. Just no point in engaging.
NonyNony
Isn’t Paul Ryan going to be too busy protecting his flank from the primary challenge he’s getting because he’s a RINO squish?
Mary G
When he apologized for the”makers and takers” language earlier this year, I thought he was going for the big prize. Also, he has drawn a primary challenge from the right and is about to lose the freedumb caucus in the house, so he’s probably feeling like he has an Eric Cantor-shaped target pinned to his back.
jl
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Being on a losing GOP ticket two elections in a row might have some appeal for Ryan. He knows the drill, familiar with the gig. The vacant granny-starving eyes finally will have found an appropriate setting.
If Ryan doesn’t want to bother with that mess again, I guess he shouldn’t have buckled after saying no to being House Speaker.
Mike J
Paul Ryan should move to Iceland.
Mnemosyne
@jl:
IIRC, Kemp got pushed out of his role as HUD secretary because he didn’t realize that he was expected to make urban areas worse, not try to improve them. Poor dumb bastard.
smith
Maybe this has just been a massive bait and switch by the GOP. They lure Trump into the race, goad him into going way, way over the top to the point that we’re all bracing for Armageddon, and then switch him out for Ryan, and we’re all sooo relieved that the only thing we have to worry about is your common garden variety libertarian dystopia. Could work.
Doug!
@Mnemosyne:
I’m not sure if I do anymore.
Joe Falco
It will probably resemble something like “ooh mister ryan”
JCJ
My neighbors were talking about Paul Ryan as savior in early February. It is interesting because my neighborhood is full of wingnuts (as is all of Waukesha County Wisconsin) and there are signs for the local alderman, school board, and even the state supreme court but almost none for any of the presidential candidates. They must all be planning on a Paul Ryan-gasm.
JCJ
@srv:
Huh. Is there a separate primary for congressional elections in Wisconsin? I voted last week and there were no places on the ballot for US Senate or House primary voting. Guess I’ll have to educate myself on that. I had not heard about this challenge and one of the places I work is in his district. The Milwaukee newspaper frequently gives Ryan tongue-baths so I am surprised I hadn’t heard of this guy before. I thought it was excellent trolling for Trump to have his first rally in the state in Janesville.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: also no mention by Coppins of Ryan’s line about how “our inner cities lack a work ethic”
(OT: Okay, I’ll put my Trump hatred up against anybody’s, but he’s going after Reince Priebus, which could be as much fun as watching him chew up Jeb)
MattF
Ah yes, the Republican young guns. If you– somehow– dispose of Cruz and Trump and Kasich, and you– somehow– get over the little problem of zero votes for Ryan over the campaign, and you– somehow– prevent Trump from splitting the party. Then, sure. Why not?
JCJ
@srv:
That would be a huge change from most of the polling. The Marquette Law Poll (usually considered the most reliable for Wisconsin) from last week had Cruz at 40%, Trump at 30% and Kasich at 21%
Shalimar
Good. I remember 2012, when the Romney campaign basically had Ryan speaking to supporters in unpublicized events that were closed to the press because they didn’t want to raise his budgets as an issue. It’s about time we had an election based on that evil shit.
jl
@MattF:
” Then, sure. Why not? ”
That seems to be the default GOP protocol for decision making these days. My optimism is guarded, but I take that as a good sing.
Mnemosyne
@Doug!:
No worries, Tom squished it.
Dork
Would Ryan feel obliged to choose Trump or Cruz as his vice-pick, or would he go rogue and choose Carly or Huckabee?
jl
@JCJ: I see on TPM blog that Trump said that if he acted ‘presidential’ the race would become too boring. That probably fired up his support.
gvg
GOP congressmen already in office who are afraid of being primaried, should offer a bill that would have tougher disclosure of financing source even to a pac. I suspect fellows like the Koch’s are funding these primary challanges and people should be allowed to know.
Uncle Cosmo
Not to sui-Trumpetize, but I would just like it noted that I posted a prediction on BJ that ZEGS (the Zombie Eyed Granny Starver) would be the nominee a couple of months ago.
If the Thugs can’t nominate Larry, Moe or Trump, they don’t have a lot of choice They’d need someone who could hit the ground running (so to speak) with nationwide name-recognition (if not nationwide respect) who hasn’t already been curb-stomped in the primaries.
Effectively that leaves Colin Powell, Condoleeza Rice, Granpa McCain, Caribou Barbie, Rmoney, & ZEGS, Neither the Trumpenproletariat nor the Cruzader Babbits could swallow the first three; Moosolini & The White Horse’s-Ass Prophet have been exposed nationally & found ridiculous; which leaves Speaker-of-the-Nuthouse Ryan as the last left standing.
FTR, here’s another off-the-wall prediction: Once nominated, Ryan will not physically campaign. Instead he will stay in DC & lead the House Thugs in its noble efforts to block every damn thing Obama tries to accomplish from here on in (& throw in a few more attempts to repeal Obamacare). He’ll leave it to the VP-nominee to crisscross the country as the designated attack-dog, leaving a trail of ripped trousers & rabies cases in his wake.
jl
@Uncle Cosmo: I guess it would not be too bad for Ryan if he let himself get nominated, chose a VP, and then ignore the whole sad mess as best he could. Seems like that would cut into grifting opportunities, though.
WarMunchkin
@Uncle Cosmo: I know all of the words you used, but it just goes to show to me how much the written word can change and how fast memes generate in an in-group. I imagine someone or the other has studied this.
Brachiator
And this is the man the GOP wants to turn to as its savior?
Bring it on!
MattF
@Uncle Cosmo: It’s a plan, anyhow. But the part that goes “First, we stab you in the back and make you unelectable– and then, when the mob arrives to hang you from a K Street lamppost we go back to Great Falls” would make me pause and reflect for a moment. But, maybe it’s what Ryan wants.
Mike J
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CfNwd_QW4AATQqC.jpg:large
BillinGlendaleCA
@Mnemosyne: You know, Kemp and Obama have something in common; they both were students at Oxy(Obama transferred after two years to Columbia).
JMG
If Ryan was the nominee and still serving as Speaker, he could take it as a given the Freedom Caucus would give him an ultimatum — back us in a government shutdown or pass appropriations with Democratic votes and lose not only this election, but your next one for Congress in 2018.
Hildebrand
While Ryan has essentially already won the press primary, I just cannot imagine he would be at all palatable to either a Trump or Cruz voter. Too much loser stench all over him from last time. That, and I just don’t see a lot of pining for a Randian-Plutocrat style of Republican this time around – for all of their public lamentations about Obama, most people have actually done decently during his tenure. If they feel that they can push the Republicans even farther to the right in the vain hopes of a conserva-paradise being born in their lifetimes, they are willing to live with Hillary for at least four years (gives them a great windmill to tilt at).
Tom Levenson
@Doug!: I think all the FP-ers do. This was the first time I wielded that mighty club.
Sloegin
A big fat trial balloon the size of the Hindenburg was floated last week in the press; Supposedly Mr. Ryan had a come to centrist Jesus moment and realized the Poors occasionally are deserved and do need that government handout.
I’d snark harder but my snark tank pinged empty a couple of months back.
Matt McIrvin
@Sloegin: I know a lot of people who reacted to that with “oh, hey, he’s not such a bad guy; stop being so cynical about him gunning for the Republican nomination.”
Matt McIrvin
@Hildebrand: Yeah, but judging from what’s been going on around here today, half of the Democratic Party would vote for him just for not being the D nominee. It’s just a question of which half.
Calouste
@srv: So, how long will it take before we find out that Nehlen has been employing undocumented workers? I’d say about three weeks after he hits double digits in the primary polling.
ET
Paul Ryan was an idiot for allowing himself to be pressured (or should I say conned) into taking the speakership. I hope for his own sanity that he doesn’t get pressured at the convention (if he was really smart he wouldn’t even go).
MomSense
@Dork:
Or he’ll pick Webb and run some stupid “unity” ticket.
Anyone know if there is anything to the story that Trump has the goods on Ailes?
jl
@Matt McIrvin: Maybe we need to hope for a Trump nom. Even in the liberal SF Bay Area, I am meeting quite a few people who don’t like either Dem candidate, but will vote for anyone against Trump.
Almost all Democrats will vote for Dem, no matter how much they gripe and snipe now. The alternative, any GOP alternative, is too dangerous.
Patricia Kayden
Remember back in 2012 when Paul Ryan was pumped up and ready to go?
http://time.com/3445032/paul-ryan-all-pumped-up-for-his-closeup/
He’ll need to be pumped up and ready to go when enraged Trump supporters chase him out of the Republican National Convention. Fun will ensue.
BillinGlendaleCA
@ET: Being that he’s Chairman of the Convention, he kinda has to go.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Patricia Kayden: If I were a media person, I would use the picture of Ryan giving that bro’ salute every time his name was mentioned, like Olbermann used to do with Limbaugh doing that bouncy dance.
Calouste
I’ve said this before, but I’ll ask the question again:
How do you make delegates who are fanatic about one of two anti-establishment candidates support an establishment candidate who was part of losing the last election? Delegates who are probably going to make up a significant majority of the total delegates. If Trump doesn’t get enough delegates on the first ballot I think Trump and Cruz making a deal for a Trump/Cruz ticket with Cruz the Cheney-like power behind the throne is a lot more likely than Ryan.
Patricia Kayden
@smith: How could it work when Ryan is not a candidate and would be selected by Republican elites whom the Conservative base claims to hate with the vengeance of a 1000 suns? This makes zero sense.
Republicans need to go down with the Trump ship given that millions of Republicans have voted for Trump over the last few months. Ryan lost soundly in 2012 and I don’t see why he is more attractive now than he was back then.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Calouste: I wonder if Trump’s ego would permit him to permit someone like Christie who would give people like Douthat and Brooks a reason to say “Well, Mr Christie will rein in Trump’s dangerous impulses….”
Bethesda 1971
Well, more Ryan, but also more cowbell.
Anoniminous
The only candidate with a realistic chance at a first ballot nomination is Trump. He needs 501 delegates to reach 1,237, Cruz needs 774, Kasich is mathematically eliminated since he needs more delegates than the 943 still remaining. If the three candidates keep splitting delegates the way they have been … I don’t see how Trump can get 501.
We won’t know who the GOP nominee is going to be until the results of the June 7th primaries and the 303 delegates that are up for grabs are announced.
schrodinger's cat
They are all awful and have awful policies, some are better at hiding their agenda, that’s all and hence it is easier for them to get a pass from the media. I would rather have Trump or Cruz as the face of the GOP, so that people can see them for who they really are.
Cermet
There is zero chance that tRump, if ahead in delegate count, isn’t their nominee – period.
Do you seriously think they want tRumps people sitting out the election creating a blood bath in the Senate races and heavy damage in the House? LOL. No, tRump will be their bitch.
That does not mean they will not allow, while not really showing their hand, a third party candidate that they will say they don’t support but thug donorscan line up and provide funds; thus draining tRump of funding. They can then wink at that without harm or getting the tRump base angry. Not that they will do this later part but that is the ONLY way blue eyes can run.
WarMunchkin
@MomSense: I once went out with this girl who was a political reporter and hated Webb’s guts. Not that I’m necessarily proud of doing this, but I spent an inordinate amount of time on that date talking about the role Webb played in increased awareness for prison reform, keeping the Senate open to block recess appointments by Bush and his 2007 Democratic SOTU response, which is probably the *only* competent response I have ever seen in my life.
Webb is an unmitigated toolbag for endorsing Trump, but I won’t forget what he did to materially advance the Democratic Party in those days. I still can’t think he’d be that much of an idiot as to join Ryan.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Good christ, I hadn’t heard that.
Anoniminous
@Anoniminous:
and maybe not even then
bemused
@Patricia Kayden:
Most normal people would avoid running for president or any office for that matter if they knew that photos that make someone look like a complete idiot would follow them forever ala Ryan’s workout photo shoot but these are not normal people. A normal person would have made those photos disappear immediately but evidently Ryan thought he looked damn good.
Bethesda 1971
@WarMunchkin: so. was there a second date?
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
@WarMunchkin:
everything after ‘bag’ is redundant
Webb is an unmitigated tool bag. period end of sentence.
I get what you are saying but some people prove themselves to be such unreliable partners as to not deserve further chances. Webb is one of those
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@WarMunchkin: @Schlemazel (parmesan rancor): I googled Webb and Trump and I was surprised his never-Hillary complaint was that she would continue Obama’s policies. Webb gave a pretty persuasive endorsement of BHO’s reelection at a VA speech in 2012. Trump would be change, even if it wasn’t good change.
I kinda think maybe the guy isn’t really wrapped too tight.
dmsilev
@Calouste:
Apparently a lot of Trump’s delegates aren’t actually Trump supporters, but instead are Party apparatchiks who are bound to vote for Trump on the first ballot. But only the first ballot.
Hungry Joe
@ET: Why would you hope for Ryan’s sanity?
Calouste
@Anoniminous:
Kasich can still make it if he wins every single delegate from now on and gets Rubio’s delegates.
Most likely the candidates are not splitting the delegates the way they have been. First, most primaries are going to be winner-takes-all or winner-takes-almost-all. Second, the states that are left heavily favor Trump. Cruz just doesn’t play very well outside the evangelical dominated states in the CT/MT time zones, and most of the delegates from there have already been assigned.
MattF
I took a look at the Politico article touting Ryan as the R nominee– and it’s pretty funny. The anonymous Republican source for the article claims that the probability of Ryan getting the nomination is 54 percent. Which is about two more digits of precision than is really appropriate. And it goes on from there.
MomSense
@WarMunchkin:
He endorsed der Trump? Wow.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@MattF: Since you read it, I don’t have to: Is there any disclaimer like “All of this, of course, assumes Mr Trump will quietly accept the loss of the nomination and become an enthusiastic campaigner for Mr Ryan”?
ETA: @MomSense: The article I found said he won’t vote for HRC, but he might vote for Trump.
Brachiator
@Calouste:
Of course, we might also see whether Trump’s dismal performance over foreign policy and abortion this past week has had any impact on his support.
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I think the guy is an opportunistic ass who will say or do whatever he thinks advances Jim Webb the most. But I don’t know him as well as many so I may be harsh
rikyrah
they are who we thought they were
…………
Harrisburg GOP begins budget strategizing
Updated: APRIL 3, 2016 — 1:08 AM EDT
The most detailed – and pointed – GOP battle plan came in an email from Rep. Brad Roae, who for nearly a decade has represented Crawford County, in the state’s northwest corner, and serves on the Finance and Human Services Committees.
[…]
Roae called for closing state-owned residential facilities for individuals with intellectual disabilities, reversing the Medicaid expansion that added coverage to hundreds of thousands of uninsured Pennsylvanians, selling State Stores, and repealing prevailing wage policies.
He said arts grants and even the state meteorologist may have to go. And he proposed ending higher-education grants for students studying “poetry or some other Pre Walmart major.”
Roae also left no doubt as to his view of their role: “Everything needs to be flat funded or cut. People elected us to cut spending, not raise taxes.
Roger Moore
@MattF:
You ought to ask for a unipony while you’re at it.
MattF
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Oddly enough, the T-word is nowhere to be found.
Calouste
@dmsilev: Ok, I have heard differently (i.e. most Trump delegates are hardcore Trump supporters), but I guess it’s going to be hard to find out what the exact proportion is.
If a significant proportion of the Trump delegates are actually party apparatchiks, that would leave room for shenanigans even if Trump wins the majority of delegates. What if a few hundred Trump-delegates-but-party-apparatchiks just don’t show up for the first round of voting? They are pledged to vote for him if they vote. Are they obliged to show up in time for the vote?
Anoniminous
@Calouste:
Have to go into the actual state’s rules. Even in some WTA states a candidate has to get 50% + 1 to take ’em. And a surprising (to me, at least) number of states are still proportional, e.g., Rhode Island and the 172 delegate biggie California.
ETA: quickly adding there are 391 of 943 remaining that will be assigned proportionally. Leaving 552 to be doled out by other means.
schrodinger's cat
@MomSense: He said he would vote for Trump over Hillary. He has always struck me as a nasty misogynist piece of work.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Schlemazel (parmesan rancor): I haven’t followed him that closely, but my take is that he’s a very sincere crackpot. Like John McCain, a mercurial and thin-skinned temperament. And I’m glad his weird impulses led him to run for Senate, and that George Allen showed his racist ass in that race.
eemom
@Schlemazel (parmesan rancor):
Having followed Webb since supporting him for my Senator back in the dark days of 2006, I can vouch for your being right on the money. He’s proved himself a turncoat and a backstabbing asshole over and over — from dissing the ACA to this latest Hillary bashing bullshit. Fuck him.
Iowa Old Lady
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Anyone who says they’ll vote for Trump has forever forfeited a right to be treated seriously. I mean, come on!
lamh36
scav
@lamh36: But what if Guam was really really enthusiasic?
Patricia Kayden
@lamh36: What is the end game for these Sanders’ supporters who keep bad mouthing Clinton? Do they want a Trump presidency with all its attendant nightmares? But perhaps this is all bluff to boost Sanders’ voting share.
@WarMunchkin: Webb endorsed Trump? Wowzers! Speechless.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@lamh36: besides being fifteen kinds of stupid, how is that supposed to promote Sanders’ candidacy?
Bill
@JCJ: It’s been a steady trend back to Trump since the MUL poll last week: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/wi/wisconsin_republican_presidential_primary-3763.html
Calouste
@Anoniminous: Have a look at The Green Papers
California is not proportional. It is winner-takes-all by district and statewide. Which means that if the winner has a decent margin, he will win pretty much all the districts and thus all the delegates. South Carolina uses the same system and Trump got 100% of the delegates there with 32% of the vote thanks to a 10% margin over number 2.
As far as I can see at least 75% of the remaining delegates will be awarded winner-takes-all or winner-takes-all-by district.
WarMunchkin
@Patricia Kayden: @MomSense: @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I apologize, I misspoke. He said he’d vote for Trump over HRC. This is in contrast to pulling a Christie, but you can be the judge of the degree of mistake I made.
ET
@BillinGlendaleCA: He must have taken on that job when there was still talk about how deep the GOP candidate bench was. Wonder if he is regretting it now.
Calouste
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: You mean besides emphasizing that the votes of people of color don’t really count in the Sanderverse?
dmsilev
@lamh36: All of the states that Clinton has won and will win don’t count. Because reasons.
Roger Moore
@Calouste:
Who says the delegates are fanatical about Trump or Cruz? One of the things that’s been coming up recently is that while the delegates may be pledged to support a particular candidate in the first vote, that doesn’t mean they’re appointed by that candidate’s campaign. In many cases, they’re appointed by the state Republican party and don’t necessarily have any reason to support the candidate they’re pledged for other than party rules that require them to support that candidate on the first ballot.
jl
@Patricia Kayden:
” What is the end game for these Sanders’ supporters who keep bad mouthing Clinton? ”
The end game is time for them to cool off, and Uncle Bernie yelling about his political revolution moving ahead and how they must vote to make that happen (at least I hope that latter bit is part of it).
I think this Democratic primary will end up much like the one in 3008 did, no matter who wins (but looks like HRC at this point).
BillinGlendaleCA
@ET: It goes with the Speakers job, so yeah.
danielx
Rather not, if it’s all the same to you.
BillinGlendaleCA
@jl:
You got a time machine?
Anoniminous
@Calouste:
From the same source:
Tuesday 7 June 2016: All 172 of California’s delegates to the Republican National Convention are pledged to presidential contenders in today’s California Presidential Primary.
159 district delegates are to be bound to presidential contenders based on the primary results in each of the 53 congressional districts: each congressional district is assigned 3 National Convention delegates and the presidential contender receiving the greatest number of votes in that district will receive all 3 of that district’s National Convention delegates.
13 at-large delegates (10 base at-large delegates plus 0 bonus delegates plus 3 RNC delegates) are to be bound to the presidential contender receiving the greatest number of votes in the primary statewide.
Indiana is the same scheme:
all 57 of Indiana’s delegates to the Republican National Convention are allocated to presidential contenders in today’s Indiana Presidential Primary.
27 district delegates are to be allocated to presidential contenders based on the primary results in each of the 9 congressional districts: each congressional district is assigned 3 National Convention delegates and the presidential contender receiving the greatest number of votes in that district will receive all 3 of that district’s National Convention delegates.
30 (10 base at-large delegates plus 17 bonus delegates plus 3 RNC delegates) statewide delegates are to be allocated to the presidential contender receiving the greatest number of votes statewide.
In addition, 3 party leaders, the National Committeeman, the National Committeewoman, and the chairman of the Indiana’s Republican Party, will attend the National Convention as bound delegates by virtue of their position.
“A delegate … shall on the first ballot at the national convention support the candidate who received the highest number of votes … if the person is … a candidate at the convention. If the presidential candidate … is not on the ballot … the … delegates are no longer bound.”
– enough of that! –
Assigning delegates by WTA in the Congressional districts is pretty much the definition of “proportional” in the GOP’s dictionary.
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA: I think we can safely predict a circular firing squad in the 3008 Democratic primary.
Chyron HR
@BillinGlendaleCA:
The Solar Federation party lost to the Syrinx candidate.
Anoniminous
@BillinGlendaleCA:
You really need to should be being to will have had been studying the fierce 3008 primary. Definitely one for the ages.
CONGRATULATIONS!
@Patricia Kayden: Yes. That’s what they want. It really is Nader 2000 all over again. They have the belief (it’s one I once shared when I was younger and REALLY politically stupid) that Americans just need their nose rubbed in their own mess, like you’d do to a dog who’s crapped in the house. If you were a shitty and awful dog owner.
Ask any dog trainer. That absolutely won’t work on the dog. He has no idea what he did, why you’re angry or why you’re being cruel to him, and you can sit there and try to explain it to him and he’ll never understand. Dogs, you see, can’t talk or understand human speech. Tone, yes. But not speech.
Same with voters. All that “teaching them a lesson” does is fuck your nation back into the Stone Age. Look around you. This nation is in worse shape by every possible measure than it was back in 1999. Stone cold fact. Obama’s undone some of the damage. We have a long way to go.
The few hyper-militant Sanders supporters – who I am convinced are not the majority or even a large minority of his followers – don’t get this and I understand that. But they need to grow up, as they’re really doing nothing but destroying Senator Sanders’ public image, and that’s something he really doesn’t need.
jl
@BillinGlendaleCA: That was a typo, but it just so happens that the 3008 primary was great for Democratic candidate too.
@Baud: Since you are a virtual, timeless, candidate, you will be in that one. Are you getting ready? This year’s Baudtaster should have been a lesson for you.
Baud
@jl: I will be leading the BJ Party in 3008.
EthylEster
@ET:
he’s the chair so i think he has to show up.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Unfrozen Clone Hybrid of Bernie, Hillary, Elizabeth Warren and Al Franken in 3004!
jl
Only problem is, will HRC really, finally, be too old in 3008?
boatboy_srq
@rikyrah: Wow. Especially the “Pre-Walmart major” bit: so, no physics, chemistry, biology, mathematics or economics? Exactly what century does the GOTea want to return to?
ETA: Because I’m thinking it’s the 6th century.
jl
@Baud:
” I will be leading the BJ Party in 3008. ”
If Balloon-Juice is a major political party, that will mean that civilization as we know it is dead, and probably the end of the world. I sense a problem with your expectations.
Kropadope
I’m done with the Democrats. It was bad enough when Hillary’s dumb-ass campaign apparatchiks and nasty-ass online supporters were telling me that all I and other Bernie supporters wanted was free shit, that I wasn’t considering the difficulty of getting laws passed through Congress, that I’m not doing any research, and (with little sense of irony) that I’m making Republicans’ arguments for them. Now Hillary is beating on those drums too, particularly within the last week.
Meanwhile I’m being told that I don’t care about black people or other racial minorities, that I think their votes shouldn’t count, and that I think they should shut up by supporters of a candidate who at this point in the previous election cycle was disparaging the work ethic of non-white people and elevating the importance of the white vote.
What’s worst of all this is that Clinton was put on a glide path by the Democratic establishment and that her only significant opposition was from Bernie Sanders, a barely passable candidate himself. Yet, despite this and despite the media’s refusal to cover Bernie as something other than a joke and a refusal to discuss his proposals honestly, he’s still managed to make a race of it. If that isn’t sounding great big alarms about how weak Hillary is a candidate, time to test the batteries in your alarm.
The leading candidate for the Democratic party is dismissing, even at the conceptual level, policies that will help working people. We apparently have to save enough money that we can afford to borrow enough money to blow up Middle Easterners. A third of Democrats even think it’s OK to torture terrorism suspects and give extra scrutiny to Muslim neighborhoods, in the last case including almost half of the D front-runner’s supporters (shocking). Democrats aren’t interested in helping people and the token policies they pass to make you think they’re any better than the Republicans aren’t enough to convince me otherwise.
I don’t need HRC dragging the country incrementally to the right when Trump, with the Republican Congress he’d be almost certain to have assuming his election, could probably do it with two or three big lifts. I don’t care if I lose the right to marry whomever I want or it becomes even harder to make personal decisions about what I do to my body or if my barely affordable healthcare becomes less so. I’d rather be miserable in a broken world where it’s impossible to ignore our problems than be comfortable ignoring society’s problems.
Baud
@jl: Who said anything about Balloon Juice?
A Ghost To Most
@rikyrah:
Where have you gone, H.L. Mencken?
jl
@Baud: Oh. Can you get that party going before 3008, bigshot political genius Baud! 2016!?
The Thin Black Duke
@lamh36: He really is unaware of how damned patronizing he sounds, isn’t he?
AnonPhenom
“This is my prediction: The Republican Party as of this day is as terminated as the Whigs were in 1846.”
– Gore Vidal on Election night 2008.
boatboy_srq
@WarMunchkin: Not that anyone would put that past Webb. He’s a Dem for disenfranchised oppressed white people (and not much else). Kaine and Warner are significant improvements over Webb – and that’s saying something.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I haven’t seen a GBCW in a while.
Patricia Kayden
@Kropadope: Bye bye.
Roger Moore
@CONGRATULATIONS!:
Not true. A larger percentage of the population currently has health insurance than at any point since we started tracking it, including 1999. That’s a real improvement.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
If Sanders Clause hasn’t been on MSNBC for tongue bath interviews with Hayes and/or Maddow once a week, it’s damn close. Glenn Thrush of Politico has been trying to get an interview with Sanders for three months. I don’t much like Thrush and I hate Politico in general, but you can’t have it both ways. And why might Sanders be reluctant to give a potentially unfriendly source an interview?
If you would quit sniveling and make some room for a thought in your emo-crowded little noggin, that statistic, if true, might tell you something about the viability of Uncle Woo-woo Dumbledore when he faces a general election and opponents who don’t have to worry about hurting the feelings of delicate little cupcakes like you
On behalf of Barack Obama, the several million people who have jobs and health insurance because of the things he did, the environment, and the Supreme Court, and myself: Fuck you.
WarMunchkin
@Kropadope:
Democrats are the new Muslims, I guess. Have you met any Democrats?
AnonPhenom
@Kropadope:
If it’s an consolation to you Hillary will be Presidentin’ with one eye over her left shoulder given how much closer this race turned out to be.
Just keep repeating to yourself “Bernie Sanders is to John the Baptist as Elizabeth Warren is to Jesus.”
Hillary knows full well that Jimmy had his Teddy…
Kathleen
@lamh36: I’m assuming Sanders was standing there since Robbins was introducing him but didn’t say anything. I don’t get the South Carolina/Guam comparison. What is the point of making that statement? Sheesh.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Kathleen: Democrats aren’t gonna win So Carol in the general so it doesn’t count. Or Something. I don’t know how that logic applies to Ohio, Florida, or Illinois.
nutella
@Kropadope:
Taking bets: Is Kropadope a white cis straight man with a reasonably comfortable income?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@nutella: I was thinking, if people being snarky on a blog drive him to want to watch the world burn, that’s a sweet fucking hothouse life our delicate little flower must have had up to now.
Brachiator
@Kropadope:
Ho-lee Sheet. A self-absorbed pseudo-martyr, riding his or her unicorn into a personal Gethsemane.
WarMunchkin
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I think he’s referring to this said by Clinton:
This bit of condescension apparently merits watching the world burn, teaching Democrats a lesson by letting the Republicans have a 6-3 or 7-2 majority in the Supreme Court for a generation, destroying the environment, not allowing people to vote, blah blah. I have been insulted, I will therefore retaliate by deliberately destroying good public policy in my country.
I’m not sure how this reckless emotionalism serves us in politics, and I don’t even blame Kropadope fully. There’s no expectation of sobriety in politics anymore, and no social enforcement mechanism in favor of it.
Adam L Silverman
@Tom Levenson: Tom, if you would pull his ISP and other info next time and send it to Alain. After I banned him a week ago we had that blitz attack. So if we get his ISP info we can then use it to see if he was involved.
Kropadope
@AnonPhenom:
Bernie’s barely any better than she is and her presumed primary victory this years going to make the whole party worse. Why discuss your opponent’s actual policies when you can just repeat corporate media friendly BS about scary socialists? Why not vote for awful things X, Y, and Z if your donors like them and the voters who dislike those policies will forgive you because W? Why solve problems driving a wedge through the voters when you’re claiming to be on the right side of the wedge and you can use it against your opponent for the next election or twenty?
The Democrats are embracing the ethos, if not the specific policies of the Republicans. But if things like truth and morals don’t matter, guess what, the policies are gonna start going the wrong way too.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
This is why we have a democratic republic and not a direct democracy. We elect leaders to lead, particularly on difficult issues that people aren’t thing through due to fear or phobias or greed or whatever, not to cater to polling. Democrats voting for Hillary are doing so because they want to waste another trillion dollars killing people overseas and that’s the one pricey policy they’ll pay for because it helps them hold their security blankets just a little looser at night.
Obama’s one of the few decent people I’ve seen in politics and it’s a minor miracle we managed to elect him. Then Democrats proceeded to undermine him on too many things. We’ve gotten to the point where the political class has been dragging its feet on environmental policy for so long that industry is finally picking up a huge chunk of the slack, mainly for the sake of continued viability.
Chyron HR
@Kropadope:
Gosh, what a fresh and original excuse.
Kropadope
@nutella:
No, and the prevalence of that kind of idiotic stereotyping is but one healthy chunk of the problem. See also:
@Chyron HR:
I’ve not exactly been very complimentary of Bernie either. The fact that you smug assholes can’t see the difference between preferring someone a different candidate and hero worship looks from my perspective like a huge heaping hunk of projection.
Bill
@Kropadope:
This – right here – is some of the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard.
Uncle Cosmo
@Roger Moore:
Bangalore!
My unscientific wild-arse guess is that the Drumpf campaign has been winging it from the gitgo & never took the time or effort to identify candidates for delegate status & vet those who could be relied upon to hold fast for Hair Furor. A large plurality (if not majority) of his delegates are almost surely either GOP apparatchiks with no particular attachment to the candidate, or political newbies who are gonna getting wheeled, dealed, stewed, screwed & tattooed on the convention floor before they know what him ’em.
If Cruz’ delegate selection process has been as thorough & rules-savvy as the rest of his campaign, his chosen ones are much more likely to be true-believers who’ll be very hard to pry away from their standard-bearer no matter how many ballots down the line. What proportion of his support qualifies, vs apparatchiks only bound to DistrusTED for that first ballot, ought to be looked into by anyone trying to wargame this out.
Watch the GOP Convention Rules Committee, which IIRC meets just before the brouhaha opens. My guess is
1) There aren’t enough Drumpf & Cruz supporters together on that committee to keep them from amending Rule 40 & opening nominations up to pretty much anyone who can find a delegate to nominate them.
2) Both campaigns, which between them will hold a majority of the pledged delegates, will then combine to try & force a floor fight on the rules. If anyone can figure out how to stop Ryan, as the Convention chair, from gaveling them out of order, it’ll be Cruz’ campaign staff. But AFAIK none of the delegates, no matter who they’re bound to vote for on the first ballot, is bound to vote the way that candidate directs on a rules (or credentials, for that matter) challenge. At that point the critical issue will be if enough of the apparatchiks embedded in the pledged delegations can be organized to defeat the rules challenge & throw the convention wide open.
Buy popcorn futures–this is gonna get right innerestin’…
RaflW
@ET: It is charming that you care about Ryan’s sanity.
Wierd. But charming.
Kropadope
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
If you actually read what I wrote, or were capable of reading, you would notice my problem is not with online commenters, but with elected officials, campaign staff, and the candidates on offer. Also, Hillary supporter mocking someone for being upset at the behavior of online supporters is HILARIOUS!!!!
Chyron HR
@Kropadope:
There, there little baby. Just sit at your computer and cry, cry cry about the painful unfairness of your candidate losing in a primary. Truly, nobody in the history of the Democratic party has ever had to suffer such an injustice.
Kropadope
@Chyron HR: I’d feel this way even if Bernie never showed up and Hillary was pulling the same BS against anyone, even Trump or Cruz. I actually agree with Hillary more than Bernie on most issues, but I don’t believe a word that comes out of her mouth and everyone in her sphere of influence seems to be equally dishonest.
I can’t wait til Trump gets elected, just so I can see you big swinging dicks weeping over your war drums, even if I only get a couple months of it before Trump convinces France to nuke the U.S.
gwangung
@Kropadope: Privileged ass.
Your tantrum is embarrassing.
Roger Moore
@Uncle Cosmo:
Shorter: The Republican esablishment is going to play by the Stalin rules: “I consider it completely unimportant who in the party will vote, or how; but what is extraordinarily important is this—who will count the votes, and how.”
Kropadope
@gwangung: Fuck you, I’m working full to overtime (when I can get it) to barely be able to afford to pay my bills but, yeah, I’m privileged. Not like Hillary’s supporters in the 6 figure income crowd.
The Sheriff Endorses Baud 2016
@Kropadope:
And I can’t wait for Trump to lose hilariously, and for you to skulk off to whatever darkened corner of the ‘net that NoIQ and the rest of PUMAtown fled to after 2008.
Goodbye and good riddance.
The Sheriff Endorses Baud 2016
@Kropadope:
As a paraplegic African-American transgender lesbian working double shifts at Wal-Mart, I too am voting Trump.
Kropadope
@The Sheriff Endorses Baud 2016: Did I say I was voting for Trump? I’m showing up for the ballot initiatives and IF there are any good third-party folk, I’ll vote for them instead of leaving the spot blank.
Fair Economist
@Uncle Cosmo:
Partially but not entirely. GoPLifer (https://goplifer.com), a sane Republican in Illinois, reported Trump had a lot of unusual delegates on his slate, apparently picked to be Trump supporters as opposed to the usual party functionaries. However, he has no control over the individuals chosen as delegates in many places, and he does seem to have missed a lot of process details in some states. So although he’s been trying, he will have a lot of faithless delegates in Cleveland. That will probably rather blow his mind as as a businessman he’s probably not too familiar with subordinates who aren’t yes men, never mind actively opposed to him.
patrick II
@smith:
The Overton window taken to a new level.
gwangung
@Kropadope: Privikeged twit. People of Color deal with the same economic pressure plus racial matters. We do not look forward to a Republican administrstion.
You really are trying to prove all the worst stereotypes about Brrnie bros are true. Again, embarrassing.
Kropadope
@The Sheriff Endorses Baud 2016:
Well, assuming that happens, I have a plan to undertake the very second she starts her idiotic and likely falsely-sold war in Syria. I’m quitting my job, going on a hunger strike; all for the sake of not having to pay for/otherwise contribute to that bullshit.
It’s what I’ve planned to do when the Republicans do the same, I gotta hold them to the same standard.
Kropadope
@gwangung: You’re trying to remake the Democrats into the mirror image of the Republicans. I refuse to be a part of it. And if people of color want to vote for a person who is willing to pay to lock half of them up for no good reason and send their kids off to war ETA: and has campaigned on explicitly racist themes /ETA, that’s their problem.
Also, in addition to not being wealthy, I’m not a cis straight white male Christian either, so you can dispense with that notion.
WarMunchkin
@gwangung: There’s embarrassing and then there’s sociopathic. There’s a difference between being disappointed with the lack of progress in the country and actively wishing harm on other people because of it. The most telling passage is this:
The problem with wishing that we were in 1970, just to teach Democrats a lesson, is that it took us 40 years of people working hard, diligently and consistently to get to where we are today. To wish harm on other people because of insufficient progress isn’t representative of simple embarrassment, it’s cruelty.
There are always going to be people like Kropadope in politics, and it’s unfortunate to have to read that malice towards fellow human beings. Here is a person who wants to hurt others, break them, make them suffer for a slower system. But I think I’ve learned over time that I can’t really give up because of people like that, that change only happens by putting my nose straight to the grindstone and working every day to move forward – by convincing people. So I’ll make sure people vote Democratic in the fall, and we’ll get the job done, despite people like that.
PaulWartenberg2016
And if the Establishment gets Rubio to be Vice President, the Both Siders Media groupies will collectively orgasm and die. Which, you know, will be a good thing because that clears out the deadwood of people who keep wanting to be 1985 (or 1955 or 1925 or 1855 or)
Kropadope
@WarMunchkin: So it’s bad that I would rather suffer myself than endorse a politician who would inflict untold misery on millions of people in far-flung nations across the world? It’s a bad thing that I would have Americans deal with the issue of bad American leadership rather than, or at least alongside, people in other countries who never had a vote in our elections?
Trapped in Ohio
@Kropadope:
You know, if pretty much everybody is telling you’re wrong, odds are you probably are. Step back from the keyboard and take a step back; maybe go for a walk. Understand that there is only so much one person can do. Like it or not, Hillary is the best candidate, Republican or Democratic, running right now. Bernie, the man himself, isn’t that bad himself. I’d vote for him if he’s the nominee, despite my pet peeves with him and some of his supporters.
The Democrats are in great shape to win this November. The Republicans are in disarray for Christ’s sake! They’re going to lose and this country is going to get better.
Kropadope
@Trapped in Ohio: Keep dreaming about that unicorn, buddy.
Trapped in Ohio
@Kropadope:
Fine, be an asshole; I was trying to be nice. I can see why everybody’s been tearing you a new one.
Kropadope
@Trapped in Ohio: And wrong about what? Have I gotten any facts wrong or do these people just not like my attitude? I refuse to accept indiscriminate bombing overseas. I refuse to accept the level of dishonesty coming from the Clinton campaign. I refuse to accept the caricaturization of ideas by people who don’t agree with them. There are a lot of people who would say people are wrong for supporting Hillary, do you just change your mind willy-nilly every time your presented with a couple people who disagree with you?
ETA: Besides, what makes you think that a statement about the auspicious electoral prospects of the Democrats to someone who is actively foreswearing the entire party would comfort that person?
It’s also funny that I’m willing to accept some disruption in my life, which is all but guaranteed regardless of who wins this year. You all aren’t but I’m the one who’s privileged.
eemom
@Kropadope:
Right, cuz a republican presidency totally WOULDN’T do that! And no “untold misery” would be inflicted on anyone in THIS nation either — just you!
Damn, it’s beyond noble — you, sir, are a regular Jesus Christ.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
If he’s turning water into wine, that would explain some of this meltdown.
Being a fucking halfwit would explain the rest.
Kropadope
@Trapped in Ohio: Also, if you’ve followed my recent career here, you’ll find I’m also treated like an asshole here regardless of the approach I take. I’m fucking sick of it. I can give it as good as I can take it, and I will.
Trapped in Ohio
@Kropadope:
Why not just go somewhere else where you’ll be treated well, if you feel that way? Why keep coming back for more punishment? That doesn’t make any sense to me.
Kropadope
@eemom:
Apparently you missed this whole part:
WarMunchkin
@Kropadope: The problem with that – and especially your phrasing of the passage I mentioned – is that it isn’t just you who would suffer. There’s no filtered martyrdom here – if you would rather see a Supreme Court that overturns Roe v. Wade, you alone will not suffer. But I think you know that, otherwise you wouldn’t have phrased it the way you did.
I’m actually more interested in the second part of what you said – the bombing of brown people, the unimaginable cruelty towards other people committed by our government. I’m in agreement, and I do blame the President for certain things. But a vote isn’t a wholesale endorsement of everything someone does. There *is* a way to have HRC and prevent her from starting a war (which, by the way, isn’t a guarantee, even given her past interventionism): it’s called Congress. There’s no reason that Congress has to approve an AUMF or drones or military interventionism in Syria. That’s why Obama took it to Congress in the first place. That’s how it’s supposed to work, and it can work… if you’re willing to vote for it.
You could also say the same thing about a hypothetical anti-war candidate, who supports civil rights and closing Guantanamo, the right to abortion but strongly supports the coal and oil industry. Destroying the environment for generation is also misery and permanent damage. But you’re part of a coalition that exists together and accomplishes things together – we just got 12-week family leave and 15$ minimum wage enacted in New York, despite a vindictive asshole of a Governor in Andrew Cuomo. We have Bob Casey Jr., a pro-life Senator in our party, whose very existence is offensive to a lot of women, and who, at-scale would invoke the coat-hanger era, but he’s still going to vote for Merrick Garland, who will clearly help restore abortion rights. He voted for Elena Kagan and Sonia Sotomayor. Enough Democrats makes a difference – they form a coalition of sensible government that gets us there, that makes a real difference for many people.
dmsilev
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
More like turning water into whine.
Kropadope
@Trapped in Ohio: I’ve been coming here for ten years and I used to think of it as the only place where I could actually have a rational conversation about anything. I’m not ready to simply leave because a large subset of the commenters have decided bullying and lying is OK as long as it’s done on the omniscient, perfect, wonderful Hillary Clinton’s behalf.
All of a sudden I find myself being blamed for everything that is ever said on Twitter, Jim Crow (then and now), Gamergate, and God knows what else on a routine basis. Can you blame me for finding that upsetting? At least I’m taking it to the people who are pissing me off rather than finding some other forum to badmouth anonymous Hillary supporters.
Katy
@Kropadope: Look – you’re being BORING. And being uninteresting makes you unconvincing, so you might as well go read a nice book until the election’s over.
Kropadope
@WarMunchkin:
Which is more than happy to abdicate its authority in declaring war should the President ask.
I see in Hillary Clinton the Democrats moving away from all of those responsible things. One thing has been fairly consistent across HRC’s career; if she’s on the right side of an issue, there is no action on it; when she’s on the wrong side, there is. One might start to wonder if that’s intentional.
Trapped in Ohio
@Kropadope:
Sorry, but I’ve never seen anyone personally blame you or Sanders supporters generally speaking for any of that. I’ve only been reading this blog for maybe the past 5 or so years, but I still think it’s a good place to hang out at if you’re not an obstinate dick to everyone.
Listen, I wouldn’t call what happened above “bullying”. That’s an insult to bullying victims. The reality is you’re an anonymous commenter who’s had a few not so nice words thrown at you and bunch of people disagreeing with you. Calm down. Nobody here thinks Hillary’s perfect, including yours truly. No politician (or person) is. They simply believe that she’s the most qualified candidate for the job, just as you do for Sanders apparently.
dogwood
@WarMunchkin:
So well said. I think being part of that broad coalition isn’t satisfying to some people. The Naderites, Pumas, Bernie or Busters, all seem to revel in the idea that they have the power to burn it all down. They get a lot of attention, and they’re essentially nihilists. It’s more of a character trait than a political philosophy. Saying he’d enjoy seeing a Trump presidency seems out of character for Krope, but there are people on the left who would enjoy it, no doubt.
Kropadope
@Trapped in Ohio:
Not this, here, today. I came looking for a fight today.
Trapped in Ohio
@Kropadope:
Whatever dude, knock yourself out. Enjoy that persecution complex.
John D.
@Kropadope:
Then vote in a fucking Congress with a spine. Jesus.
Hyperbole much?
Hillary Clinton is — by far — the best American presidential candidate on women’s issues in history.
That is not hyperbole. That is not exaggeration. That is a simple statement of fact.
Women are 51% of the residents of this globe. I’d say that qualifies as “many people”.
Your insistence that Hillary will always take the wrong side of every issue is among the most prominent reasons why I think you are an idiot. You prefer another candidate. That’s fine. Demonizing a candidate who HAS done a lot of good in her tenure as Senator and Secretary of State isn’t. Short of a time machine, you don’t get to tell me what she will do.
(No, this is not an invitation for you to trot out the tired “what has she done?!?” bullshit again. It’s been asked and answered innumerable times.)
You say you’re done with Democrats. Fine. Toodle off, then. I’m voting for the Democratic nominee in November, so you are done with me as well.
Kropadope
@dogwood:
I’ve spent the last month or so culling my Facebook feed of people from the Bernie group putting up Bernie or Bust messages, telling my friends to vote for Hillary in the GE, putting up good Hillary videos, and writing favorable essays.
Watching Hillary herself engage in the addle-minded caricaturing of Bernie and his supporters that I have come to expect from her less-bright supporters, even as she’s basically a lock for the nomination, changed my attitude right quick.
Kropadope
@John D.:
Sounds like an opinion to me. Note the inclusion of words like “best” and the lack of actual data or other information.
Not really. Her greatest legislative accomplishments that I’m aware of, adoption reform and securing funding for SCHIP, were things I had to discover on my own. Usually her supporters cite her accomplishments as “she focused on X” or “she spoke about Y.” I would say her legislative career was approximately as successful as Bernie’s, but her surrogates are really bad at knowing anything about it or explaining it.
Weaselone
@Kropadope:
What are Bernie’s comparable legislative accomplishments?
PatrickG
It’s amazing how people expecting a life of noble suffering engendered by their personal choices really need other people to hear about it ad nauseum.
Why, it’s almost like the whining is the actual motivation.
TopClimber
@Fair Economist:
The great Kropadope flame war seems to have hijacked what I thought was the topic of this thread, and I am late to the party, but herein some thoughts on a contested GOP convention.
I think Cruz will be in the catbird seat, particularly if he is smart enough to realize that 2016 is going to be a GOP disaster but that 2020 not only holds greater promise but is more crucial in terms of keeping state legislatures under GOP control heading into a census year. Given that he has the most committed delegates, he could:
1. Win the undying love of the Trumpniks by endorsing their man for the top slot and taking the vp slot for himself. The ticket goes down in flames but who gets the blame–Donald for sure. Ted picks up the Donald’s leftovers once the Trumpster turns his self-promoting interests elsewhere.
2. Win the establishment’s indebtedness for delivering his votes for Ryan. Again, positions himself to be the leading contender in 2020–runs for Texas governor in between?
3. As for Ryan, would he care if he lost if he still had House speakership as his fallback? One wonders if a). Wisconsin law allows him to run for Congress at same time as for President; and b). whether Scott Walker has the power to appoint a replacement should some other Koch-owned GOP Congressman decide to resign following the 2016 election. I do believe Congressional seniority attaches to the rep, not the district they represent, and a Cruz-endorsed Ryan would have an easy time regaining his Speakership.
Lot of what ifs… presented in the spirit of putting a little FUN back into this blog.
Weaselone
@Weaselone:
Also, do your actually deny that Sander’s and his campaign have attached Hillary with half truths, dishonest innuendo and not infrequently talking points lifted straight from the right wing?
Kropadope
@Weaselone: Reform of the Veterans’ Administration, securing funding (from a Republican Congress) for community health centers, stopped the IRS from using funds that violate age discrimination laws, requiring those convicted of fraud to notify people eligible for restitution, made it harder to import from countries using child labor, funding for energy for low-income homes. There’s more, but I’ll let you research his record some more.
In retrospect, I was probably being a little generous toward Clinton’s legislative record.
Kropadope
@Weaselone:
Of course, all criticism of Hillary is dishonest and lifted straight from right-wing talking points.
Dolly Llama
@Kropadope: If you’ve been coming here 10 years, you may understand what I’m saying when I say this has been one of the funnest exchanges I’ve read on here since Michael Gass in the Balloon Boy thread.
Kropadope
@PatrickG:
Weaselone
@Kropadope:
I see. So the Sander’s campaign’s recent announcement that an agreement had been reached regarding a NY debate did not include a a passive aggressive shot at Clinton’s fundraising and a grab for martyr cookies about rescheduling a rally?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Like when your messiah called for a primary challenge against him?
Kropadope
@Weaselone:
Regardless of whether it did or not, how is any of that right wing? Hell, the right wing are big supporters of Clinton being able to rake in unlimited corporate cash, because they’re allowed to do the same and because it helps reduce competition in the political ecosystem.
John D.
@Kropadope:
See, this is why I call you dishonest.
You asked me for examples before, and I listed both of those, yet somehow you had to dig those up on your own. I also mentioned the Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, which she fucking co-sponsored and fought for, but you yet again pretend that didn’t exist because she began her tenure as SoS the day before the vote. As I said, we’ve done this little rodeo many, many times, and you always perform the exact same dance steps. You are a dishonest hack.
I’d certainly disagree with that statement. There is plenty to legitimately criticize her for. You just don’t choose to do so.
Why are you still here, anyway? You said you’re done with Democrats. Shoo.
PatrickG
@Kropadope:
Things I’ve learned about myself at Balloon Juice:
* I am paid to comment here by the RNC (mclaren)
* I am a warmonger advocating escalated war in the Middle East (Bob in Portland, iirc)
And now, I’m a racist asshole who’s directly engendering the suffering of others!
Here I thought I was just a snarky lurker who’s always late to threads. Well, I’ll cop to being an asshole, and of course, the racism charge is pretty hard to dodge, given ingrained bias, socialization, and a host of other factors I do my best to be aware of.
But enough of that. I’m scheduled in an hour to personally fuck over a disadvantaged class, and I’m woefully unprepared. People like Kropadope won’t be able to gleefully anticipate the social disintegration a Trump presidency entails without my work!
P.S. My favorite is still being accused of being a right-wing paid troll. I’ve been giggling about that for days.
Weaselone
@Kropadope:
Altarnet’s King of Amendments article?
Kropadope
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: My messiah? You mean Bernie Sanders whom I have referred to on this thread at least once as “passable?” Bernie Sanders who never ran against Barack Obama? Bernie Sanders whose stated goal for that desired primary challenge was to sharpen Obama up and to push him to the left? Him? He’s not my messiah, not even close. Cut it out with the projection.
Kropadope
@Weaselone: That includes a good summary.
Weaselone
@Kropadope:
I didn’t say it was. That qualifies as dishonest innuendo. Not everything has to check all three boxes.
The right wing part is the continued attack on her honesty and integrity despite there being no evidence she’s any more dishonest or lacking in integrity than Sander’s.
Sad_Dem
@Mnemosyne:
How about *dance* out, with a straw hat and a bendy cane, to some catchy tune about supply-side economics? With accountant backup dancers?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Kropadope: But if you can’t have your “passable” candidate to throw the election away with, you want the world to burn?
I thought you were just a moron, but nowI think you may be nuttier than McClaren or Applejax.
Kropadope
@John D.:
So, a predilection for war is not a legitimate reason for criticism in the eyes of John D. So, how many terrorists do we have to kill before we can end the war on terror? How many innocent casualties are too many? Or are innocent casualties a good thing as it diminishes the pool of people potentially looking for retribution?
If my criticisms are so right wing; where are Vince Foster, Whitewater, Benghazi, emails, the Clinton Foundation, etc?
Weaselone
@Kropadope:
It also shows a style that isn’t really relevant to the Presidency. His work with McCain is good, but he’s not going to be able to piggyback modest amendments on legislation as President.
Weaselone
@Kropadope:
Sander’s is not going to end the war on terror. He’s indicated support for the use of drones. He may arguably have refused intervention in Syria or Libya, but is debatable what the impact on casualties would have been.
Zinsky
I think it’s coming, folks. A Paul Ryan – John Kasich GOP ticket. I hope Hillary’s strategy team is gaming this out and has some ammo ready for these smarmy, mindless twerps as opponents in November.
Kropadope
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Again, I would feel this way about HRC running a pervasively dishonest campaign against anyone of any party. And I don’t want the world to burn, but the tears of people who helped get us there makes a good salve.
@Weaselone: Yeah, his skill at negotiating small, positive changes to bills will never come up when a Republican Congress inevitably creates a protracted fight over a major piece of legislation necessary to the continued functioning of the government. It also reveals a pragmatic temperament which is helpful to the job overall.
prob50
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Drunk or off the meds?
Kropadope
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Pissed. And you played a part in getting me there.
Otherwise stone cold sober.
chopper
@CONGRATULATIONS!:
not a dime’s* worth of difference!
*by dime, I mean ‘triganic pu’.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Kropadope: You take this blog waaaaay too seriously.
Kropadope
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Like I’ve been saying, it bothers me when the online crowd does it and I’ll tell them gladly. Hillary and other Democratic candidates, though, are the only ones having a determinative effect on my vote.
The Sheriff Endorses Baud 2016
@Zinsky: Ryan’s support is as widespread as Rubio and Jeb’s and about as deep as well. The Villagers desperately want their Randroid crush, but I can’t see him playing beyond the Beltway Bubble. Not straight out of nowhere, not with the majority of voters lined up behind the anti-establishment candidates, not with four months between Cleveland and the general, and definitely not after their previous crushes went down in hilarious flames.
If Il Douche doesn’t get it on the first ballot, I can easily see enough of his delegates breaking to Tailchaser Ted to give him the nom. Either way, the GOP’s fucked.
Doug!
@Tom Levenson:
Thanks!
eemom
@Kropadope
Including those of millions and millions of literal innocents, e.g. children, who unlike you DON’T get to choose whether or not to be sacrificed to get us….
WHERE, exactly?
Just by the way, your bullshit theory that fucking things up worse is the way to get things better? Look how that worked for The World According to Nader. If, in fact, you were old enough to vote at the time.
Anyway, that “tears” comment seals it for me. You do not get to choose to make others victims. Fuck off.
dogwood
@Kropadope:
Since Hillary and Bernie score almost identically when it come to honesty on the campaign trail, it’s hard to to see how her campaign is more dishonest than his. Only 6% of what Trump says is considered truthful.
I have never been convinced that legislative accomplishments are the best predictors of executive success. There are overlapping skill sets that apply in both arenas, but there are skills unique to each. I was a highly successful high school teacher, and for some strange reason, certain supervisors and colleagues thought I should become a principal. I found this laughable. I’m really not temperamentally suited for management. Mastering classroom management isn’t the same as running a school.
chopper
@Kropadope:
U DON’T SAY?
eemom
@Doug!:
Since you’re here, I must confess I hate that song. Plenty of other “blue eyes” lyrics out there, ya know….
The Sheriff Endorses Baud 2016
Well, I see someone is proudly letting his fascist flag fly for everyone to see. I should thank Donald Trump for at least opening up all the closeted authoritarians to sunlight.
Kropadope
@eemom:
I’m not choosing to make others victims. I’m refusing to support someone I think, based on their record and general conduct, would victimize people.
Weaselone
@Kropadope:
As an independent senator, Bernie is ideally placed to get his pet projects added to a bill in exchange or as a reward for his support. As President he’s essentially going to be responsible for championing one entire side of the negotiations. That’s what people are getting at the they talk about Hillary and her support for SCHIP and Lily Ledbetter.
catclub
@The Sheriff Endorses Baud 2016:
I was amused when some pundit was saying that Ryan is the least establishment GOP leader.
Yeah, right.
Darkrose
@lamh36: I didn’t realize that Robbins gave money to Michele “Crazy Eyes” Bachman. Real progressive.
Darkrose