Site News: And We’re Back

The site has been done for a good couple of hours. I’ve been in touch with Alain: he was not working on anything. He put a ticket in about it with WP and now we’re back. He’s also investigating.

We apologize for this disruption to your normal Balloon Juice experience. Open thread so kvetch about how this has ruined your day in the comments!

202 replies
  1. 1
    planetjanet says:

    I had just about given up on life. Glad you are back.

  2. 2
    scav says:

    Reality is beginning to voluntarily shut down in self-defense.

  3. 3
    BretH says:

    The site, like NC Senate Democrats, was so appalled by the previous post’s topic that it decided to walk out.

  4. 4
    Eric S. says:

    I was forced to actually start working on my taxes.

  5. 5

    Thank FSM. I was worried I would have to work today.

  6. 6
    Elie says:

    Glad to be back! Unfortunately for me, this site’s performance stands out but not in a good way. Its a testament to how much I like it here that I keep commenting and reading. It is slow and I frequently get dumped. Since its the only site behaving this way on my laptop or Iphone, I have to think its something special to its design. I wrote the “leadership” but so far, nothing has changed and I haven’t heard back.

  7. 7
    Fair Economist says:

    It was horrible. I even ended up doing some work! What is the world coming to?

  8. 8
    Shell says:

    Still trying to get over the fact that I missed National Puppy Day (yesterday)

  9. 9

    My work day was ruined. I actually coded something.

    I was so mad I had to tweet at Cole.

  10. 10
    Mike R says:

    What’s normal about Balloon Juice experiences, they seem extraordinary

  11. 11
    FlipYrWhig says:


  12. 12
    Amir Khalid says:

    This medical retiree who keeps very odd hours was indeed somewhat inconvenienced by the Balloon Juice outage, which he became aware of around 01:15 Malaysian time. But I’ve been through these outages before, and I have even learned not to reflexively blame Alain.

  13. 13
    Brachiator says:

    good to see things back. We had been having server problems at work, so I was not sure what might have been going on.

    ETA: Post Comment used to have a button or be in a white shaded area. Now it just hangs out there. (Internet Explorer and Windows 10)

  14. 14
    eemom says:

    This forced me to click on Salon and witness the latest 4,000 smug-ass “not gonna vote for Hillary” shitpiles, featuring most especially yet another disgusting display of self-fellation by that utterly unbearable dreck Camille Paglia. Ugh.

  15. 15


  16. 16
    Miss Bianca says:

    you know, it’s really weird how used I’ve got to having the site sort of there in the background to retreat to when I’ve got a down moment during my day…or night…

    Then when it’s not there it’s kind of like…withdrawal. (Could it be…?)

    btw…and I really *am* asking for a friend…a charming elderly gentleman, 90 +, WWII vet, I converse with on another list about ‘shot and sail’ books and everything else…here is his desire (and I quote):

    “a book I’d be delighted to read.

    The topic would be: Why the Japanese Felt they Needed to Attack Pearl Harbor, and Why they Felt Justified.

    It would be told, I hope, from a dispassionate and historical Japanese point of view.”

    I feel fairly confident someone here will know of such a book published in English if ’tis already in existence. Suggestions?

  17. 17
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @eemom: There’s no way “Brogan Morris” is a real person. It has to be like when Bob Cesca’s site would post Salon-dot-com parodies under the name “Sam Doloncot.”

  18. 18
    lamh36 says:

    Had no time to even notice the site wasn’t up until about an hour ago.

    First, I’m sick, so I took an extra day off work. I am so frustrated right now add to that being sick for days and I’m gonna have to try my best to keep my blood pressure down.

    I got an update this morning on the job at the local hospital and they went with another candidate…based on da rumors, it’s likely that the my son of a bitch former supervisor, who hired the current crappy new supervisor, probably got that job….

    Anyway, I wrote a longer bit, but instead put it a blog post…you can check that out here:

  19. 19
    delk says:

    The guy in the unit across the hall from me overdosed. His girlfriend came home and found the body. Once the authorities arrived they would not let her in the unit so she was by my front door when the guy’s mother showed up.

    Possibly the most distressing thing to hear unfold in front of you. Crime scene investigators are still here.

  20. 20
  21. 21
    Miss Bianca says:


    Oh, Raven, I was hoping you’d be around!

    ETA: Quick question – how much time does this one spend on Japanese military POV, as opposed to American? Never mind, I’ll dig into it…

  22. 22
    japa21 says:

    I am sure I will hear from my boss tomorrow wondering about the sudden and unexpected increase in productivity for a couple hours today.

  23. 23
    anadromy says:

    can you guys please please please fix the fact that i can”t access anything but the front page???? please!!

  24. 24
    raven says:

    @Miss Bianca: Same battle

    Sea of Thunder is a taut, fast-paced, suspenseful narrative of the Pacific War that culminates in the battle of Leyte Gulf, the greatest naval battle ever fought.

    Told from both the American and Japanese sides, through the eyes of commanders and sailors of both navies, Thomas’s history adds an important new dimension to our understanding of World War II.

    Drawing on oral histories, diaries, correspondence, postwar testimony from both American and Japanese participants, and interviews with survivors, Thomas provides an account not only of the great sea battle and Pacific naval war, but of the contrasting cultures pitted against each other.

  25. 25
    different-church-lady says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Nah, they’ve moved on to “All ARIZONA WAS STOLEN! All The Time”, with occasional diversions into “Merrick Garland Sucks!”

  26. 26
    Older says:

    We’ve been turning our computers upside own and pounding on them . . . and all the time it wasn’t even them! It’s true, we’re still here because we love you, but it’s been trouble for us since way before the make-over and the only thing that’s better after the make-over is that it no longer causes my browser to crash if left open and unattended.

  27. 27
    raven says:

    @raven: Have you seen “Letters from Iwo Jima”?

  28. 28
    dr. bloor says:

    @Major Major Major Major: My favorite was from the moran who wrote a diary mocking Kos’s prediction about the outcome of the primary after The Bernz closed the gap by all of seven delegates over three states this week. You don’t often get to see someone dancing on his own grave.

  29. 29
    different-church-lady says:

    @anadromy: That’s been broken for a long time — no matter what number you push, you get the latest set of posts.

  30. 30
    Miss Bianca says:


    Well, that just sucks. Sorry to hear it!

  31. 31
    Amir Khalid says:

    I concluded long ago that Camille Paglia was a very silly person. Most of that Salon piece is complete nonsense.

    That’s a tough break. You have my sympathies.

  32. 32

    @dr. bloor: seriously, I can’t stop thinking of the black knight from Holy Grail at this point.

    BLACK KNIGHT: Come on then.
    ARTHUR: What?
    BLACK KNIGHT: Have at you!
    ARTHUR: You are indeed brave, Sir knight, but the fight is mine.
    BLACK KNIGHT: Oh, had enough, eh?
    ARTHUR: Look, you stupid bastard, you’ve got no arms left.
    BLACK KNIGHT: Yes I have.
    ARTHUR: Look!
    BLACK KNIGHT: Just a flesh wound.
    ARTHUR: Look, stop that.
    BLACK KNIGHT: Chicken! Chicken!
    ARTHUR: Look, I’ll have your leg. Right!
    BLACK KNIGHT: Right, I’ll do you for that!
    ARTHUR: You’ll what?
    BLACK KNIGHT: Come ‘ere!
    ARTHUR: What are you going to do, bleed on me?
    BLACK KNIGHT: I’m invincible!
    ARTHUR: You’re a loony.
    BLACK KNIGHT: The Black Knight always triumphs!
    Have at you! Come on then.
    [ARTHUR chops the BLACK KNIGHT’s other leg off]
    BLACK KNIGHT: All right; we’ll call it a draw.
    ARTHUR: Come, Patsy.
    BLACK KNIGHT: Oh, oh, I see, running away then. You yellow
    bastards! Come back here and take what’s coming to you. I’ll bite
    your legs off!

  33. 33
    raven says:

    And another from the Japanese perspective:

    Requeim fo Battleship Yamato is an exceptional book describing not just the last battle of the ship, but the feelings and emotions of the crew who manned her in this battle.

    This book was written and published in Japan and then suppressed by US occupation censurship policies. I, for one, can’t see what the rationale for suppression was, having read the book several times.

    What I find must interesting is the author’s description of the men he served with and the men he led. He was reproved by a superior officer for NOT striking a Sailor for an infraction of discipline. His description of the role of the executive officer is also enlightening – he was a “designated” survivor to report back about the mission. The description of a Nisei who was in the same stateroom as the author is quite moving. I for one, had never known or considered that there were Nisei in Japan at the time the war started and how they were treated by their fellow countrymen. If for no other reason than this last, I am glad I read the book.

    I first wrote this review in 2001. In 2006 I was able to visit the Battleship Yamato Museum in Kure. Having read the book several times before it was amazing to see the film of the minisub examining the remains of YAMATO. There are artifacts from the debris field on display. It would be nice if the book were available in English and Japanese at the museum. All visitors would find it useful. After visiting the muuseum, I did some further research on the US aspect of the YAMATO engagement. I learned that my mother`s second husband was in the crew of one of the submarines that detected YAMATO as she headed towards Okinawa. It was by the submarine reports that the carriers could get aircraft into the air and engage YAMATO. I thus have another reason for finding this book so engrossing and valuable.

    this is a fine book for all students of naval history. It is also an excellent piece of literature. I recommend it to all.

  34. 34
    Miss Bianca says:


    ooh, ooh, that’s getting closer.

    Actually, from what he wrote about what he wanted the book to cover – I found myself so fascinated that I am strangely tempted to drop everything else in my life and try to write it myself! All I’d need to do is go back to school, study Japanese for oh, say, 7-12 years, Asian history ditto, and then…at the ripe old age of 65 or so, I’d be ready to go! But he’d like it before the 80th anniversary of Pearl Harbor, thank you very much… ; )

    ETA: You are a treasure, dear sir. Thank you! You’ll be making my friend very happy.

  35. 35
    anadromy says:

    @different-church-lady: thanks, thought maybe it was just me. seems like a kinda important issue …

  36. 36
    John Revolta says:

    I blame Tommy. And Obama.

  37. 37
    different-church-lady says:

    @dr. bloor: My favorite was:
    – HEADLINE: Numbers support Bernie comeback!
    – ACTUAL DIARY CONTENT: He’s not mathematically eliminated, so here’s my utterly blue-sky absolutely everything breaks right for him, pay no attention to the polling numbers scenario.
    – IGNORED EPILOGUE: “Uh, hey, look, I’ve double-checked your arithmetic, and even under your blue-sky scenario he still comes up 80 delegates short.”

  38. 38
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    IIRC, it may be a little tough to find something totally dispassionate, because the Japanese basically had a fascist government at the time (led by Hirohito instead of Hitler, Mussolini, or Franco) that was pretty repressive. Raven’s suggestion is probably a good starting point.

  39. 39
    Betty Cracker says:

    @anadromy: I know it’s a pain in the ass, but there is a workaround; enter the URL and dates to find older content, e.g., for yesterday, etc.

  40. 40
    Amir Khalid says:

    Ah, but if when Bernie turns the superdelegates to his side — just wait and see!

  41. 41
    Mnemosyne says:


    I know you’ve occasionally considered moving to Atlanta and trying to get into the CDC. Your skills may be specialized enough that there may be a headhunter or recruiter willing to take you on, but I’m not sure how one goes about finding a headhunter.

  42. 42
    opiejeanne says:

    @eemom: I do not understand why Camille Paglia is given any attention. She is a stupid person; why does anyone think she’s worth listening to?

  43. 43
    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism says:

    @Miss Bianca: I haven’t read this one myself yet, but the reviews are promising:

    Demystifying Pearl Harbor: A New Perspective From Japan by Iguchi Takeo, David Noble (Translator), English Edition 2010

    Excerpt from The Journal of Japanese Studies:

    Iguchi’s personal interpretation of these issues generally echoes mainstream conservative scholarship in Japan. He attributes the beginning of Japanese territorial expansion, the 1931 Manchurian Incident, to uncontrollable forces such as Chinese nationalism, Soviet power, Japanese population expansion, and economic distress, relegating the start of Japanese “aggression” to the second Sino-Japanese War (1937-45). The war against the United States was a struggle less to protect the nation than to ensure national honor and independence.

  44. 44
    different-church-lady says:

    @Amir Khalid: If I recall correctly, the diary specifically excluded super delegates.

    After that there were about three days of dueling “math” diaries, followed by “Math doesn’t matter, he’s made an impact!” diaries. Which, in a way, is true, as long as one’s willing to concede there’s almost no chance of a comeback.

    ETA: The really perverse thing about that joint now is the way there’s a daily argument about what reality itself is.
    Me, I’m considering writing a sincere “Well done, Bernie” diary, but not a moment before it becomes official.

  45. 45
    Bob In Portland says:

    @different-church-lady: I don’t think Arizona was stolen. I think there was voter suppression. You disagree?

    @Amir Khalid: Any problem about waiting until everyone votes?

  46. 46
    FlipYrWhig says:


  47. 47
    Yutsano says:

    To be honest, I’ve been so busy at work today I barely even noticed. Damn filing season. I miss the days in collections where filing season didn’t matter. Demanding the money never really had a season. The only tradeoff there was getting time off approved was near impossible because we didn’t have enough people.

  48. 48
    FlipYrWhig says:


  49. 49
    Bob In Portland says:

    @eemom: So people who won’t vote for Hillary are now shitpiles? Are the people who didn’t vote for Hillary in primaries shitpiles? Is this how you reach out for votes?

  50. 50
    Miss Bianca says:


    I think what my friend is looking for are the historical “justifications”, if any. Japan’s position in Asia vis a vis Western imperial powers and China, and whether there be any validity to the notion that there was a fatal sense of “Ah,the Western powers who would ordinarily be a check upon us are distracted by European war, America is in an isolationist mode, army small – if we destroy their Pacific fleet they will fight weakly for a few months and then seek peace!”

  51. 51

    @Bob In Portland: Um, we are describing the behavior of rec’d diaries at Kos. Has anybody here disagreed with you on the two things you just mentioned?

  52. 52
    Bob In Portland says:

    @FlipYrWhig: Good for you. Much better than aliens from Uranus, because they actually exist.

  53. 53
    Mnemosyne says:


    I only have one really annoying Bernie dead-ender in my Facebook feed right now, and I’m cutting her some slack because her non-Bernie posts are all about how her toddlers have been projectile vomiting on her nonstop for the past week. Once she catches up on her sleep, I think there will be less “party unity, my ass!” from that quarter.

  54. 54
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Bob In Portland:

    So people who won’t vote for Hillary are now shitpiles?

    In the general election, you mean? Um, yes, obviously?

  55. 55
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism:

    Oh, right on! Such good suggestions from all y’all!

    Have I mentioned the fact that I *love* you people??

    No wonder I go thru’ withdrawal! : )

  56. 56

    @Bob In Portland: Anybody who doesn’t vote for the candidate most likely to stop Trump in the general is, I’d say. And Paglia is always one.

  57. 57
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Mnemosyne: Toddlers vomiting on you around the clock seems like a reasonable simulation of what it’s like to be a Republican in 2016.

  58. 58
    different-church-lady says:

    @Bob In Portland: I don’t have enough information to know exactly what to call it. From what I’ve seen, it sounds to me like there’s a systemic problem at the state level with having enough polling places and keeping their registration databases correctly. Whether this is standard-issue incompetence or malfeasance I cannot say.

    What I can say is “WE DEMAND A REDO!” because people stood in line a long time or had to cast provisional ballots is not a sane response.

  59. 59
    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism says:

    One of the Amazon reviewers for Iguchi’s book also recommends Japan 1941: Countdown to Infamy by Eri Hotta (2013) and The Origins of the Second World War in Asia and the Pacific by Akira Iriye (1987).

  60. 60
    opiejeanne says:

    @Major Major Major Major: the oddest thing I’ve read was an attempt by a writer at Mother Jones to claim that Hillary is a secret Dominionist, because Metjodist argle bangle, and Paul Tillich was darkly conservative in his later years (not that I remember) and she’d had people praying for her, etc. therefore she’s a dominionist aAIYEEE!

  61. 61
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Bob In Portland:

    I think there was deliberate suppression of Democatic voters in Arizona. I do NOT think that there was suppression of Bernie’s voters designed to support Hillary.

    That’s the difference between facts and conspiracy theories. And when you run around insisting that the suppression happened in order to benefit Hillary, you piss off all of the Hillary voters whose votes were also suppressed.

  62. 62
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: Imperial Japan’s territorial expansion goes back decades prior their expansion into China. The Russo-Japanese War ceded Korea to Japan in 1905.

  63. 63
    redshirt says:

    I demand a refund! Let me speak to the manager!

  64. 64
    singfoom says:

    @opiejeanne: Think about the large number of so-called pundits and opinionators in our newspapers/media/internets/smoke signal news that are seriously dumb.

    You’ve answered your own question.

    People listen to dumb people because the dumb people act like they know what they’re talking about. It doesn’t matter that they don’t, it matters that they project the image that they do. I feel like there’s a presidential candidate like that out there somewhere right now….

    Also, don’t read Salon. (If you really want to read Salon, go ahead, I won’t stop you, I just don’t know why anyone would want to anymore) Jesus, that place has become a giant clickbait hell with shitty writing and ads on ads on ads.

  65. 65
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    I have to admit, I don’t have any book leads for you. I think the only WWII Pacific one I have on my shelf is “Downfall,” which is a very acclaimed book about the end of the war, not the beginning. It may have some similar information in it, though, because he covers some of the changes in government. There actually was a faction that wanted to hold out even after Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but fortunately they were overruled.

  66. 66
    opiejeanne says:

    @Miss Bianca: I’ve been admiring your nym, and for some time I’ve wanted to ask if you are a mouse with a Hungarian accent?

  67. 67
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Mnemosyne: Yup, the election was being run by the Republican state and locals, not the DNC and DWS.

  68. 68
    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism says:

    @opiejeanne: That would be this article trying to link Hillary with the C Street dominionists.

  69. 69
    opiejeanne says:

    @singfoom: I don’t, not any more, but dear God Paglia endorsed PALIN! How can anyone not see how dumb she is?

  70. 70
    different-church-lady says:

    @redshirt: [BEST FRANK NELSON VOICE]: Ye-essssssssssss?

  71. 71
    Felonius Monk says:

    My Balloon Juice, My Balloon Juice, why hast thou forsaken me?
    I haz a sad, now I haz a happy.

  72. 72
    redshirt says:

    @Miss Bianca: This is probably superficial, but the Japanese were riding a wave at the time of having great military successes. They got cocky. They smashed the Russians and destroyed the Chinese, and like you said, given America’s seeming isolationist mindset, they gambled America wouldn’t want to go to war.

    Another factor was the independence of the Japanese Navy, which basically made the decision themselves.

  73. 73
    Felonius Monk says:


    How can anyone not see how dumb she is?

    Which one or both?

  74. 74
    Amir Khalid says:

    It did? Interesting. As FlipYrWhig notes, devout Bernistas tend to alternate between denouncing the whole superdelegate thing as undemocratic and pinning their hopes on Bernie persuading the superdelegates to come over to him.

    As it is, Bernie has had some good days in the primary season, and has some more ahead of him. But outside the states that most favour him, he doesn’t win often enough, or big enough when he does. As things stand, it looks like he’s too far behind to catch up.

  75. 75
    Bob In Portland says:

    @Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: There was a book written about that time, and the Clintons, as part of their triangulation, sucked up to the Dominionists like just about every Republican did. No big deal. Old news.

  76. 76
    Bob In Portland says:

    @Mnemosyne: True.

  77. 77
    Gravenstone says:

    Cookie jar!

  78. 78
    Bob In Portland says:

    @Amir Khalid: Is there something wrong with finding the superdelegate system in the Dem party undemocratic? Is there something wrong with playing by the rules that are in effect this year? Not sure it’s quite the hypocrisy you make it out to be.

    Are you for superdelegates? Think it’s a nifty idea? Do you want your candidate to get their votes?

  79. 79
    singfoom says:

    @Amir Khalid: Yeah, I’m not that devout. I’ve made my peace that Bernie is probably not going to get the nomination. For me it was over on the 15th because of the math. But many remain overly hopeful and optimistic.

    Here’s hoping that the rest of Bernie’s supporters can come around and unify under HRC sooner rather than later. Those who stay home or refuse to vote for HRC are making purity the enemy of the good if you ask me.

    But denigrating them and scolding and chiding them won’t bring them out to vote. Even the appeal to reason/fear about a possible Trump/Cruz presidency might not move those most devout. But a man can dream.

  80. 80
    Amir Khalid says:

    The Japanese hit Malaya at exactly the same time they bombed Pearl Harbor. (ETA: The dates are off by one day because the simultaneous attacks happened on either side of the international date line.) Legend has it they met no real resistance and rode bicycles all the way south to Johor and over the Causeway to Singapore — where the British had their guns pointing out to sea, because they were expecting the Japanese attack to come from there. But this is an exaggeration.

  81. 81
    TOP123 says:

    @Miss Bianca: The Pacific War, 1931-1945, by Ienaga Saburo, is a pretty comprehensive account from the Japanese side, from a critical perspective. Some research might not be up-to-the-minute, but the focus is on the Japanese outlook, and the tensions within government factions over war decisions. Caveat, I haven’t read it in a few years. Bonus, it should be available used pretty cheaply.

  82. 82
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Bob In Portland: Being that most superdelegates are office holders, it’s pretty democratic.

  83. 83

    I saw Bernie yesterday on the Snooze Hour, he is beginning to sound as delusional as some of his rabid followers.

  84. 84
    Steeplejack says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    Late to the thread, and I just did a quick scan of the comments.

    I would second Sister Rail Gun’s recommendation of Demystifing Pearl Harbor. I haven’t read it, but it sounds like more of what your friend is looking for than the other (general) books about the Pacific naval war. I would also recommend Eri Hotta’s Japan 1941: Countdown to Infamy (2014), which would give your friend a lot of the geopolitical background from the Japanese side.

  85. 85
    singfoom says:

    @Bob In Portland: The hypocrisy of the moment (trying to get superdelegates) and bemoaning the existence of superdelegates at the same time as unedmocratic comes off as whiny if you ask me.

    Not because I disagree, superdelegates are by their very nature undemocratic, but you play the game by the rules that are set. It’s hard for people not to notice the double standard when it seems like the “Superdelegates are ok when they’re for my guy, but undemocratic when they’re for the other candidate.”

    This is the way the game is played at this point in time. In a vacuum, yes they are undemocratic. But that’s the actual design. Moaning about them won’t help.

  86. 86
    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Yeah, I’ve seen the German analysis of the trench warfare in the Russo-Japanese War. Which lessons they then completely ignored a few years later.

    Given what Miss Bianca asked for, I figured something based off the main line of Japanese scholarship would be a good fit (as opposed to the conspiracy theories I’ve also seen tossed around). Iguchi is supposed to have supplemented that with Foreign Office sources — he’s a retired Japanese diplomat — and with his own experiences as a child interned in West Virginia along with the Japanese embassy staff.

    The other two I added in the second post were both first published in English, and one of the authors is a Harvard professor. Probably a lot closer to our view of events.

  87. 87
    smith says:

    @singfoom: Bernie and his supporters took the Occupy ball and ran with it, in the process showing unmistakably that there is a real hunger in this country for economic justice. Having shown this, and having bumped the Dems leftward, it would be a real shame if they decided to disengage from the political process. They won’t get their president this time, but I’m guessing and hoping that within another cycle or two we may have a younger, more charismatic version of Bernie who can take advantage of the conditions prepared by Occupy a few years ago followed by Bernie now.

  88. 88
    Jay C says:


    @eemom: I do not understand why Camille Paglia is given any attention. She is a stupid person; why does anyone think she’s worth listening to?

    Probably a term from evolutionary biology works best: a “relict species”. Paglia was the Newest Edgy Hot Thing* back when Salon started in the late ’90s. Two decades on, though, her shtick has gotten trite and boring, but the (apparently) irresistible force of journalistic inertia has kept her in place. Camille Paglia: the coelacanth of online journalism….


  89. 89
    Technocrat says:

    So glad to see BJ back. I had a moment of panic when I thought they had blocked it.

  90. 90
    japa21 says:

    Boy, I think I am going to be sick, but I have to agree with BiP on the superdelegate issue. One can call them undemocratic and not be hypocritical by trying to win them over to your side. It’s the same as saying I don’t like the system as it is but it is the system we have so I will work with it until it can be changed.

    There is nothing hypocritical about it.

    I do have a hunch the only reason BiP is for Bernie is that he has been told that is the one Putin most wants to we in.

  91. 91
    Mike in NC says:

    @Miss Bianca: I’ve been thinning out my WW2 library for a long time, but you might check out “The Eagle and The Rising Sun: The Japanese-American War 1941-1943” by Alan Schom (Norton 2004).

  92. 92
    raven says:

    @Mnemosyne: Army, right?

  93. 93
    Felonius Monk says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    This book puts forward a revisionist view of Japanese wartime thinking. It seeks to explore why Japanese intellectuals, historians and philosophers of the time insisted that Japan had to turn its back on the West and attack the United States and the British Empire. Based on a close reading of the texts written by members of the highly influential Kyoto School, and revisiting the dialogue between the Kyoto School and the German philosopher Heidegger, it argues that the work of Kyoto thinkers cannot be dismissed as mere fascist propaganda, and that this work, in which race is a key theme, constitutes a reasoned case for a post-White world. The author also argues that this theme is increasingly relevant at present, as demographic changes are set to transform the political and social landscape of North America and Western Europe over the next fifty years.

    Defending Japan’s Pacific War by David Williams

  94. 94
    opiejeanne says:

    @Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: that’s the one. My mind is completely boggled.

  95. 95
    Quicksand says:


  96. 96
  97. 97
    SFAW says:


    I do not understand why Camille Paglia is given any attention. She is a stupid person;

    Or, as Molly Ivins said: “Sheesh, what an asshole!”

  98. 98
    redshirt says:

    @Origuy: Dang! Totally unexpected.

  99. 99
    dogwood says:

    My sister is real active in the county Democratic Party in Washinton state. Last week’s meeting ended up in a mess when the Sander’s people found out no one could caucus if they were wearing candidate shits, buttons etc. They started screaming about their rights and Clinton and DWS. One of the other outrages was the fact that a few of the Sander’s voters were in a huff over receiving an email from Clinton reminding them to caucus. Further proof she is gaming the system. They have all vowed to show up on Saturday in their Sander’s clothes, so my sister is staying home. I didn’t caucus last Tuesday either. Not worth listening to the fighting when the outcome is pretty well set. I’m an enthusiastic voter, but I’m not a masochist.

  100. 100
    Miss Bianca says:


    Oh, ha ha! Are we talking of “Miss Gabor-Bianca”?

    In the book version of “The Rescuers”, Miss Bianca starts off in an embassy in Norway…but *whose* embassy we are not told!

  101. 101
    piratedan says:

    @Miss Bianca: you might try John Toland’s The Rising Sun for some pre WW II history on Japan. Supposedly good enough for a Pulitzer :-)

  102. 102
    NotMax says:

    Good deed for the day accomplished. Elderly landlady shuttled to an eye doctor appointment and back.

    Appointment was for 8:30 in the morning, so had to be on the road at rush hour traffic time. :(

  103. 103
    Gelfling545 says:

    Spent the afternoon tasting variously ages armagnacs from a 5th generation family armagnaquerie. Bought a few bottles for presents.

    This trip with my granddaughter has been delightful.. She has mastered the Paris Metro and dived right in to a variety of gastronomic experiences I thought she might have qualms about (including a cheese whose name I forget at the moment that smelled like a sanitary sewer. Said it was delicious. ) outside of her familiar environment she has grown so much in a few days!

  104. 104
    Germy says:

    Interesting news about a boat that was missing since 1921:

    A group of NOAA scientists stumbled upon an interesting find while cataloging wrecks near the Farallon Islands, off the coast of Northern California near San Francisco. Reading Julie Prodis Sulek’s Mercury News story I’d hoped for more science and excitement, but what an incredible story. The USS Conestoga went missing in 1921, and a massive search operation followed but turned up nothing. The boat was presumed to be lost thousands of miles away from San Francisco, where its trip began. But the boat just turned up just a few miles outside the Golden Gate.

    From the Mercury News:

    He recognized it as a tug, complete with its riveted steel hull, steam steering apparatus, marine steam engine and big winch for towing. It was extra long at 170 feet.

  105. 105
    redshirt says:

    @NotMax: What’s rush hour like in exotic Hawaii?

  106. 106
    Amir Khalid says:

    That’s sad. I remember It’s Garry Shandling’s Show and its self-referential theme song very fondly:

    This is the theme to Garry’s show
    The opening theme to Garry’s show
    This is the music that you hear
    As you watch the credits …

  107. 107
    Cacti says:

    @Bob In Portland:

    So people who won’t vote for Hillary are now shitpiles?

    No, Bob. Just you.

  108. 108
    AkaDad says:

    Bernie’s supporters could vote for Hillary even though she didn’t vote with Bernie 100% of the time,or better yet vote for Trump and help us break the 7th seal.

  109. 109
    Amir Khalid says:


    the Sander’s people found out no one could caucus if they were wearing candidate shits

    I should expect not.

  110. 110
    Miss Bianca says:

    A big thank you shout-out to all of you for your book recommendations! I’m already getting mock-grumbly feedback from my other list to the effect of, “well, great, another big pile to put on my reading list!” : )
    Methinks I may have to bookmark this thread…

  111. 111
    p.a. says:

    @smith: Seeds of the future; not everyone will opt out, not everyone will become activists. But an infusion of progressive ideas (economic ideas at least) will happen. The Velvet Underground & Nico sold 30,000 on original release, but 10,000 new bands resulted. (Paraphrase from ?- can’t remember, Christgau?)

  112. 112
    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism says:

    @raven: Kind of. The Big Six split was the Prime Minister (an admiral), the Foreign Minister, and the Minister of the Navy vs the Minister of the Army, the Chief of the Army General Staff, and the Chief of the Navy General Staff.

    I believe the attempted coup was all army.

  113. 113
    NotMax says:


    Trou du Cru? That one is banned on the Paris Metro.

  114. 114
    Fair Economist says:

    @japa21: It is hypocritical to say the supers should follow the wishes of the voters (as the Bernie-ites were saying up until the 15th or so) and then turn around and say the supers should override the wishes of the primary voters when it becomes clear Bernie’s going to get only a minority.

  115. 115
    FlipYrWhig says:


  116. 116
    opiejeanne says:

    @Miss Bianca: that’s the one. I haven’t read the book but we saw the movie and had the lp, which my kids wore out.

  117. 117
    Germy says:

    A petition is circulating to allow open carry of guns at the republican national convention:

  118. 118
    My Truth Hurts says:

    It was probably Berniebros conducting a coordinated DNS attack since all the front pagers here are so hopelessly and inexplicably in the tank for Clinton.

  119. 119
    Miss Bianca says:


    Read the book. Course I would say that.

    Fun fact: The only diary I ever wrote for DKos on “Books That Changed My Life”, was all about my love for that little book.

  120. 120
    dogwood says:

    Pretty much.

  121. 121
    raven says:

    @piratedan: After fighting in the Pacific the bulk of the war reading At Dawn We Slept. really shook up my old man. Another funny thing was that he had no idea what Taffy 3 and the Battle of Samar was even though he was in that AO at the time. Apparently the Navy wanted to protect Halsey after he took the Japanese fake and left the fleet unprotected.

  122. 122
    eemom says:


    If you’re still around, sorry to hear that.

    Someone I knew overdosed recently and I’ve been kind of haunted by it.

  123. 123
    NotMax says:


    Honolulu is a mess at rush hour and has been forever; some highways there seemingly in a state of permanent construction.

    On Maui, more laid back. Took 26 minutes to get to the clinic in town as opposed to the more usual 18. Traffic lights getting into and through town are not timed so things proceed in spurts and stops. Red light at one busy intersection of two major roads can take as long as 3 minutes to change to green,

  124. 124

    @Miss Bianca:

    Japan’s position in Asia vis a vis Western imperial powers and China, and whether there be any validity to the notion that there was a fatal sense of “Ah,the Western powers who would ordinarily be a check upon us are distracted by European war, America is in an isolationist mode, army small – if we destroy their Pacific fleet they will fight weakly for a few months and then seek peace!”

    That was definitely not it. Most of the good general histories of the war have at least some discussion of the Japanese reasons for attacking the US and some even discuss why they thought they could get away with it.
    The main cause was that the US had started an embargo of critical natural resources as a response to Japanese aggression in China that was really hurting the Japanese economy. They didn’t want to give up in China, and they needed those resources both for domestic consumption and the war economy, so they needed to do something to get them. They saw expansion into Southeast Asia as the best way of getting what they needed and an attack on the US and UK bases in the area as a necessary precondition to success.

    As far as the attack on Pearl Harbor, the Japanese had some historical reason for thinking a surprise attack to start the war would be both successful and acceptable. They started the Russo-Japanese war with a surprise attack on the Russian fleet at Port Arthur, which was both successful and not too heavily criticized. They thought that they could get away with giving the declaration of war close enough to the time of the attack that the US wouldn’t be able to respond in time and still have everything be legal and above board. In practice, they screwed that up and didn’t get the formal declaration in until after the attack, but it’s not at all clear that the US would have been any more forgiving had they given the declaration a few hours earlier.

  125. 125
    dogwood says:

    @Amir Khalid:
    Oh, Amir. I need to get a keyboard. Typing on a tablet is a bitch.

  126. 126
    Cacti says:

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    I saw Bernie yesterday on the Snooze Hour, he is beginning to sound as delusional as some of his rabid followers.

    Old man is drunk on the cheers of college kids and doesn’t want the party to end.

  127. 127
    Kathleen says:

    @lamh36: So sorry you didn’t get that job and are not feeling well. {{{{hugs}}}},

  128. 128
    dogwood says:

    The funny thing is that when they served together in the Senate their voting records were pretty identical. Their divergences were often cases where Bernie was to the right of Hillary.

  129. 129
    Betty Cracker says:


    One can call them [superdelegates] undemocratic and not be hypocritical by trying to win them over to your side. It’s the same as saying I don’t like the system as it is but it is the system we have so I will work with it until it can be changed.

    True. The same logic applies to taking Wall Street cash.

  130. 130
    patroclus says:

    @raven: You mean “Where is Carrier Group 471? The world wonders.”

  131. 131
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Cacti: Bernie Sanders or Enrico Palazzo?

  132. 132
    patroclus says:

    Oh, Bob was here! I hope he invites some Honduran children over for supper tonight – you know, the ones that didn’t die in the American invasion of 2009, that he would have vastly preferred rather than, you know, the quiet non-interventionist diplomacy pursued by Obama/Clinton.

  133. 133
    bystander says:

    The site was down so long I had time to write a little thing I call Leather Thighs.

    I hope the Berniebots get over the bitterness quickly. The Hillbots did in Aught Eight, after the Firebagger Flare Up was squelched and Lady Rothschild retreated to her clifftop castle on a far off shore.

  134. 134
    Kathleen says:

    @Germy: I think Obama should tell the nation that carrying guns in a contained space with hundreds of people could be dangerous. Maybe that will encourage them even more.

  135. 135
    hamletta says:

    Super delegates are undemocratic, I guess, but they’re a safety valve. If Dems were to go nuts and nominate a lunatic like, say, Ronald Prumpf, SDs could jump in and save the party from its idiot voters.

    Outside such a scenario, they’re going to ratify the voters’ choice. Hillary probably had a lot of them in 2008, but once Obama locked up the pledged delegates, they swung over to him.

  136. 136
    Amir Khalid says:

    A contentious situation. Angry people. Loaded guns. What could possibly go wrong?

  137. 137
    Bob In Portland says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA: If I vote for someone for the Senate, that doesn’t mean that I vote for him to decide who my choice of president is. Since we know that superdelegates were created to keep a lid on insurgent political uprisings within a party, i.e., foiling the will of the voters, I’m afraid I can’t share your embrace of superdelegates. But that’s not going to change any time soon. Certainly not be convention time.

  138. 138
    Elie says:


    He shouldn’t need a headhunter to see jobs open at the CDC. You go on their website, look up the open positions and apply — its a federal hiring process…. It takes a while sometimes but it does work…

  139. 139
    dogwood says:

    I think it will all work out fine. During primary season I’m always reminded that ideology and temperament are two different things. There’s always been a segment on the left that hate democrats more than they hate republicans. They will write in Bernie, or vote Green or whatever. I don’t know how much difference it makes. What happens with the bulk of Bernie’s voters is not certain, but unless he refuses to endorce Clinton, I think they will overwhelmingly vote for her if she’s the nominee. However, I don’t expect Bernie to campaign for the ticket which could cause Clinton some problems.

  140. 140
    Bob In Portland says:

    @patroclus: Wonderful. I’ll invite Berta Cáceres. Should we be expecting you?

  141. 141
    Bob In Portland says:

    @Cacti: Why aren’t you voting for Donald Trump? You act just like him.

  142. 142
    Amir Khalid says:

    Probably no American employer uses more firearms in its work than the US military, and no American employer is stricter about firearms safety. And there, no one carries a weapon unless they need one for the job they are doing today. Someone should point that out to the gun nuts.

  143. 143
    Mike in NC says:

    We visited Honolulu about ten years ago and loved it, but the rush hour traffic made the DC Beltway look tame.

  144. 144
    Mnemosyne says:


    I’m thinking more that the CDC might be more willing to hire someone who’s already in the Atlanta area, especially at local hospitals where you can make contacts and network. I’m not really sure how federal hiring works, though.

  145. 145
    Amir Khalid says:

    Right now, faced as it is with the prospect of having to nominate Donald Trump, the Republican party is probably wishing it too had superdelegates.

  146. 146
    Gelfling545 says:

    @NotMax: Yes! That’s it.

  147. 147
    Elie says:


    Its that last part — not campaigning for the ticket that is one of my strongest negative reactions to Bernie…it gives lie to everything he says he wants about getting things done ….

  148. 148
    patroclus says:

    @Bob In Portland: I’ll invite Manuel Zelaya and all the children that didn’t die in the U.S. military intervention that you so desperately wanted. Why do you think we should have invaded and killed kids? Sanders certainly doesn’t think so. It’s only you that wanted an interventionist policy.

  149. 149
    Bob In Portland says:

    @Elie: Did you hear Sanders’ answer to whether or not he would support Clinton if he didn’t win?

  150. 150
    PurpleGirl says:


    I do not understand why Camille Paglia is given any attention.

    As I remember the feminist landscape in the 1970s, she was a bulwark against feminism. She is also anti-woman. I read one of her early books, decided it was stupid and that I didn’t agree with her and have tried not to read anything by her again. (And I won’t Google the names of her books, I don’t want to give her clicks of any sort.)

  151. 151
    Elie says:


    CDC has federal and independent contractor type employees. It is definitely a plus to already live in Atlanta.

  152. 152
    patroclus says:

    @Bob In Portland: Sanders is a good guy and didn’t support killing Honduran kids the way some did. I expect him to support the Democratic nominee, who will continue the non-interventionist policy of successive Democratic administrations. Even Sanders could read that Salon article that contained the phrase “It is impossible to accuse Clinton of foreknowledge of the (2009) coup).”

  153. 153
    Bob In Portland says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: You mean the guy who got 80% in Utah two days ago? That guy?

  154. 154
    Elie says:

    @Bob In Portland:

    He danced around for a while and didn’t really answer in the interview I saw.

  155. 155
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Bob In Portland: What if some obnoxious unprepared celebrity like, say, Kanye West runs for the Democratic nomination, and there’s a crowded field, and a plurality of Democratic primary voters support Kanye because it’ll be funny? Democrats don’t tend to do that, being the thoughtful and responsible party, but they could. Sometimes “the will of the people” is an ass, no?

  156. 156
    Unknown known (formerly known as Ecks, former formerly completely unknown) says:

    I can still never get to page 2 or beyond. Every time I click to go, it just re-loads the live front page. This is true on 2 computers using Chrome and IE (just to see if it was a Chrome thing).

    My working theory on this is that Balloon Juice has mastered mindful awareness to such a degree that it only exists in the state of now, and has let all other times go.

    What’s that you say? No, I’m not a programmer. How did you tell?

  157. 157
    PaulW says:

    just for this hassle in our lives, I demand that every Balloon Juicer buy the upcoming Black Panther #1 written by Ta-Nehisi Coates.

  158. 158
    FlipYrWhig says:


  159. 159
  160. 160
    patroclus says:

    @Bob In Portland: Yeah, that Sanders guy. I watched his entire rally on C-Span in both Salt Lake and Boise and not once did he mention that he would have authorized U.S. military intervention in the 2009 Honduran coup. Rather, I think his policy would be to continue the non-interventionist policy of Obama/Clinton. The idea that he would attack Clinton from the hawkish point of view is laughable.

  161. 161
    Elie says:

    @Unknown known (formerly known as Ecks, former formerly completely unknown): e

    The site continually reloads on IE (which I use for the app I have to use for work) and sometimes I lose my comments. Reading comments posts and comments on my old iPhone is just a pain. I have no problems on other sites however, so its something peculiar to BJ’s programming…

  162. 162
    Bob In Portland says:

    @patroclus: Do you really believe that our intelligence services didn’t know that a coup was coming? And that they then kept it from Clinton? If so, we have an even bigger problem.

    Berta Cáceres was not particularly enamored of Clinton’s performance AFTER the coup, but I think that presuming the CIA/State Department didn’t know about it is pretty naive. Do you think that they would have known beforehand if there was a communist coup brewing?

    And throughout our history, when a regime is overthrown there are certain standard things that are done if the US is not happy with that coup. Cutting off aid, cutting off diplomatic relations. Taking the case to the Organization of American States. Cutting off military weapons. Essentially, the US was happy with the coup. So the US was happy with the coup that just happened and they didn’t know anything about it beforehand? And the people in the military never gave a second thought to how the US would react?

  163. 163
    different-church-lady says:

    @Bob In Portland: He/she might mean the guy who didn’t do even half that well in Florida.

  164. 164
    Bob In Portland says:

    @FlipYrWhig: The West Coast has been dependably Democratic for twenty-five years. Let’s see what happens there.

    Meanwhile, did you ever ask yourself why the Dems would want their early primaries to be in the most conservative states?

  165. 165
    different-church-lady says:

    @patroclus: Do us all a favor: don’t put any more nickles in that jukebox, please.

  166. 166
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @different-church-lady: Hey now, Florida is hardly propitious territory for opinionated Jews born in New York.

  167. 167
    different-church-lady says:

    @FlipYrWhig: Unlike Utah.

  168. 168
    Bob In Portland says:

    @Elie: In the interview I saw he said that he’d ask what the cocktail party Democrats were going to do for the working class and the young people. I would translate that to asking for concessions in the platform. Not such a radical idea. If they stop supporting those awful trade bills and start working for the majority of Democratic voters I may reconsider.

  169. 169
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Bob In Portland: Dude, Massachusetts, Minnesota, and Vermont were literally one month after Iowa.

  170. 170
    different-church-lady says:

    @Bob In Portland:

    …he’d ask what the cocktail party Democrats were going to do for the working class and the young people.


  171. 171
    dogwood says:

    I get your concern, but Bernie is doing something that’s unique. He isn’t a democrat, but he is using the party to put forward an independent presidential campaign. I don’t think anyone’s ever done that before. It creates problems and advantages for him. The advantage is that running as a democrat allows him to avoid being accused of being a spoiler or a gadfly. Problems arise when he shows his disdain for his opponent, the sitting president of the party and dismisses the concerns of factions of the traditional coalition. I think had he decided to do a little more listening and less preaching, stopped the DNC, Clinton, Obama bashing for the duration, he just might have won the nomination.

  172. 172
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Bob In Portland: What if the majority of Democratic voters actually like or are agnostic about free trade? I’m not saying that’s a good thing, but it’s a possible thing, no?

  173. 173
    Bob In Portland says:

    @FlipYrWhig: Yes. California and New York are practically at the end of the primaries.

    Utah and Mississippi don’t represent the current Democratic Party.

    By the way, Sanders has demanded that the Democratic Party actually try to run a 50-state party, running candidates in all elections. Stuff like that. That would probably mean that your heart throb Debbie Wasserman Schultz would have to step down or at least stop running Republican-lite candidates.

  174. 174
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @dogwood: I’m not sure. So much of his appeal is the anti-politics politics. If he doesn’t harangue the corrupt establishment he’d never have connected with voters beyond the Anyone But Hillary diehards. The puzzler to me is trying to figure out how O’Malley would have done without Sanders in the race. I’m sure it wouldn’t have been as successful as Sanders was, but I’m not entirely sure why I’m so sure. I think because of his salesmanly quality, which Bernie Sanders absolutely lacks, which is what lets him sell “authenticity.” A slicker Bernie Sanders wouldn’t be Bernie Sanders because Bernie Sanders is antithetical to slickness.

  175. 175
    Elie says:

    @Bob In Portland:

    Is that your end around to say that you (and presumably Bernie), are justified to not support downticket Democrats or anything else related to the Democrats because of your purity. Is it ALL free trade you are against? I guess you and Bernie would wall off the US from the world economy. Heh, that would show ’em, right? That would work and we could keep all those manufacturing jobs that are disappearing even in the third world. We not only would keep them but we would coerce the world to pay us top wages to produce shit unconnected from the needs of those horrible manufacturers. We could wall ourselves off in fortress America with all of Trump’s equally pissed off followers and just run the table of not only our economy, but the world’s (which we would need to do to enforce the wages we would demand, right)?

  176. 176
    patroclus says:

    @different-church-lady: Well, since you asked nicely, I’ll stop after this one. But, we’ve been continually baited by someone for days on end about Honduras – which I have visited and have many friends there. And, by all accounts, the U.S. reaction was precisely correct; especially given our long history with Pinochet, Castro, Chavez, Lumumba etc… The U.S. reacted diplomatically, ultimately reaching a conclusion, as documented in the Ambassador’s report that the actions of Zelaya were unconstitutional and the actions of the Honduran military and their legislature were as well. After 2 years or so of turmoil, ultimately a diplomatic settlement was reached and there have two subsequent Presidents in Honduras since. And they were selected by the Hondurans themselves. Not the U.S. military; thus establishing a new paradigm of U.S. non-intervention in Hemispheric affairs coupled with artful diplomacy. The idea that Sanders supporters would criticize Hillary, of all people for “not doing more” to protect Zelaya, despite his blatantly unconstitutional actions, is utterly ridiculous.

    Hillary and Sanders agree on this issue – Bernie has never made a case otherwise. And yet, with snide innuendo, one particular poster keeps up this ad hominem attacks on Hillary as though she is some modern form of Kissinger/Nixon. It’s nonsensical and he should stop it (well before I do).

  177. 177
    Bob In Portland says:

    @FlipYrWhig: @FlipYrWhig: These people should certainly be Democratic voters. But when the corporate Democrats keep voting against their interests they look for hope elsewhere. To think that a blue-collar worker in the US has to look to Donald Trump for hope is a pretty sad commentary on the Democratic Party.

  178. 178
    Soylent Green says:


    Old man is drunk on the cheers of college kids and doesn’t want the party to end.

    You nailed it. I expect some of the berniebros to repeat Republican memes about HRC, but when Sanders starts doing it too, fuck that guy.

    Here in Portland tomorrow morning he will get a huge turnout of adoring progs at the Moda Center (home of the Blazers), which should float his boat.

  179. 179
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Bob In Portland: You do know that a Congress with more Democrats in it would also have more _conservative_ Democrats in it, right? See for instance 2006, where the vaunted Fifty State Strategy elected Mike Arcuri, Joe Donnelly, Gabby Giffords, and Heath Shuler. The 50 State Strategy and “Republican lite” are THE SAME THING.

  180. 180
    Elie says:



    He is too old. This is a very tough job for even a young person. Hillary is almost too old. We haven’t even STARTED the main campaign — and then he would have to GOVERN. (easy shit, right?) With the media, 24/hr news cycle and the world coming acha every second — its almost too much for even a young person.
    Hey, I am 65 and it gives me no pleasure in saying this — but he is too old for the demands of the office at this point in our history.

  181. 181
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Bob In Portland: Funny, I think it’s a pretty sad commentary on blue-collar workers.

  182. 182
  183. 183
    Elie says:


    Got that right…..

    ..and what is Trump offering them again? For that matter, what is Bernie promising that he will give them? Like he or Trump can unilaterally GIVE anything without controlling the system (like you know, the Congress). I just can’t get over left wing delusions of how they think our government works….

  184. 184
    dogwood says:

    @Bob In Portland:
    Sander’s demanding anything of the Democratic Party is pretty laughable. He’s been a politician most of his life, and could never be bothered to engage more than superficially. Now he demands a 50 state strategy, when for his entire political career he never bothered to wander out of Vermont?

  185. 185
    dogwood says:

    Hey, shocked that you’re 65. For whatever reason always thought you were much younger. The internet takes 20 years off you, I guess.

  186. 186
    Linnaeus says:


    It’s also an oversimplified commentary on blue-collar workers.

  187. 187
    Elie says:

    Look — I feel this from the bottom of my heart. It is easy to tell people what they want to hear. A leader often avoids easy assurances and promises.

    We live in a complex world of interwoven relationships, needs and obligations. While I think “Wall Street” represents real excesses that have damaged our economy, it is reckless for a future leader to discount or not understand that in the world as it is, we must relate to every entity. Some in time we will push to the aside or will dwindle, but its not black and white. Only children see the world that way. As much as I hate Trump, the “making deals” part of his shtick, made more appropriately nuanced, is how we live. We make deals and trade-offs since we can’t all get 100% of what we want. That is called politics. Politics is not evil but necessary to manage in a complex world of many different interests.

    Bernie and Trump are living in the 20th century. I liked parts of the 20th century too, but we are not there anymore and if we keep trying to be, it will hurt us. I DO think we have many important decisions to make about how we choose to be moral and take care of each other. But we cannot deny reality that we must live by.

  188. 188
    Elie says:


    LOL — Ohhh youuuu (she bats her eyes coyly)

  189. 189
    different-church-lady says:


    I liked parts of the 20th century too

    Meh. I mean, Stevie Wonder was okay, I suppose…

  190. 190
    amygdala says:


    I’m thinking more that the CDC might be more willing to hire someone who’s already in the Atlanta area, especially at local hospitals where you can make contacts and network. I’m not really sure how federal hiring works, though.

    The feds’ online job board is here. Searching “microbiologist” in keywords yields 130 positions across the country at various agencies. Adding “Atlanta” to the location yields 7 positions, 6 of which are at CDC.

    Each listing is pretty detailed, including info about whether relocation expenses might be covered.

  191. 191
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @patroclus: It’s a case study in how things can be spun to be as sinister as possible: when I read that Clinton “supported the coup in Honduras” I initially assumed that it was in some sense like the CIA supported the coup against Allende.

  192. 192
    Procopius says:

    @Miss Bianca: I think the subject of why the Japanese decided to attack Pearl Harbor and why they felt justified has been covered by many, many books about World War II. I think Dean Acheson might have discussed it in “Present At The Creation,” because he was the American primarily responsible for why the Japanese felt justified — he took Roosevelt and Cordell Hull’s instructions and ran with them, to the point that rather than hurting the Japanese the American embargo on Dutch (Indonesian) petroleum products struck a deadly blow that would have effectively shut down their military. He probably didn’t though (I read the book more than 40 years ago and don’t remember much of it). Winston Churchill would probably be best. He was a great writer.

  193. 193
    Bob In Portland says:

    @dogwood: Not Sanders. The people who are supporting Sanders. All of us shitpiles that you look down your nose at. If you say to the young voters you don’t care what they want they’ll either go home or go somewhere else.

    This year finally is showing the great divide in the Democratic Party.

  194. 194
    Bob In Portland says:

    @Elie: In all sorts of places Dems have crossed over to vote for Trump in the primaries. If you don’t give ’em a fair deal they’ll take their business elsewhere. Maybe they’ll come back. Maybe not. It’s the history of fascism. It’s how humans behave. Fascism was very 20th Century, and yet as capitalism fails the majority it once again becomes an attractive alternative. Who’s fault is it? The rich or the blacks or the Muslims or the Mexicans?

  195. 195
    Bob In Portland says:

    @Matt McIrvin: I’ve asked this before. Do you actually think that the Honduran military would go ahead with a coup without an okay from the US? That’s not how it works.

  196. 196
    Bob In Portland says:

    @Elie: What? It’s not purity. It’s survival. Maybe you’ve done well in the last twenty years. A good portion of the American working class hasn’t.

    If there is a change in the Democratic Party’s leadership, where they start paying attention to the working class, then there’s a reason to put effort into it. If it’s not, then they look elsewhere. Going into the 1992 election I had my suspicions about Bill Clinton. While I found myself defending him over the stupid sex scandals I worried about the trade deals et al. He proved my suspicions right. Obama, who was the alternative to the Clintons, turned out to be pretty much the same.

    No voter owes anything to any party. If you demand loyalty of your members you damned well better represent them.

  197. 197
    patroclus says:

    @Matt McIrvin: Exactly. But it didn’t go down like Allende at all. Zelaya is alive; he was a part of the 2010-11 settlement between the parties and the Hondurans have moved on; the U.S. military and CIA were not involved at all and it was all handled diplomatically, via the OAS and directly with the Honduran parties themselves. Sanders is a smart guy and he has never made any kind of criticism of the U.S.’s action. It’s just slimy innuendo on the part of one poster here who thinks he can make a point where there is no point at all. Even the article cited by the critic contains direct contradictions of his supposed points. And, he just keeps at it; despite being shown again and again where he is wrong. In the past, the CIA/military might have intervened (just like with Allende etc…) but that didn’t happen here. It’s just utter nonsense and a blatant and drastic over-reach. If there is to be criticism, it should be directed at Zelaya, for ignoring his supposedly independent judiciary time and time again, and also the Honduran military and the Honduran legislature. But they came to terms and there was no blood. Every single time the poster brings it up, everyone here should fully realize that it is utter b.s.

  198. 198
    Bob In Portland says:

    k@Soylent Green: You don’t get it at all. You are able to watch a political movement and be totally oblivious to its meaning. We all don’t make 100k a year.

  199. 199
    Cacti says:

    @Bob In Portland:

    Why aren’t you voting for Donald Trump? You act just like him.

    Says the “progressive” who gets a raging boner at the sight of Vladimir Putin.

  200. 200
    Cacti says:


    Sander’s demanding anything of the Democratic Party is pretty laughable. He’s been a politician most of his life, and could never be bothered to engage more than superficially. Now he demands a 50 state strategy, when for his entire political career he never bothered to wander out of Vermont?


    Bernie Sanders, registered Democrat for all of 5-months or so, parachutes into the primary, starts demanding this and that from those of us who’ve been here all along.

    Mmmmkay Bern. We’ll get right on it for you (wink, wink).

  201. 201
    patroclus says:

    And the latest in the slimy innuendo is the critic’s implication that it wasn’t like Allende, where the CIA/military were directly involved, but instead it was like Diem, where the CIA/military had foreknowledge of the planned coup and thus were implicitly involved. Yet again, however, that just didn’t happen with the Honduran situation. EVERYONE knew that Zelaya was violating Honduran Supreme Court orders, and the Hondurans themselves decided to kidnap Zelaya and fly him to Costa Rica. Completely without U.S. involvement of any kind. There were no “consultations” between the Hondurans and the U.S., there was no “wink” and “nod” like with Diem. It is mind-boggling that the actions of the Hondurans themselves are being used as a cudgel to attack Clinton, and by implication, Obama. Obama’s actual policy has been diplomatic engagement (even with Cuba and Venezuela); not CIA/military intervention, in Latin American countries.

  202. 202
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @patroclus: With all due respect to your knowledge of the Honduran situation, you are wasting your time. You will never convince your critic.

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