Bundy Bunch Update

Since its been an eventful day here at the Balloon Juice bunker, now that we’ve secured from general quarters and returned the site to both JuiceCon 5 and threat assessment level puce, I thought it only appropriate to finish the night off with a Bundy Bunch update.

The US Fish and Wildlife Service released new photos of the damage done by the Bundy Bunch to the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. They are currently estimating $6 million in damages. Click on through to see just how much damage was done.

The redacted, final indictee on the Bundy Bunch indictment for the Malheur occupation has now been revealed as 27 year old Jake Ryan from Montana (h/t Bella Q). He’s still at large and the Bundy’s fellow travelers have decided to start working the refs, and the local sheriff, to try to keep him from being taken into custody. This includes, but is not limited to,  Shawna Cox who is on release while awaiting trial, Jeanette Finicum, Gavin Seim, and Ryan’s parents. CSPOA has removed its searchable list of “Constitutional Sheriffs”, so it is not possible to determine if Sanders County Sheriff Tom Runnels is a member. Sheriff Runnels did make a statement that he intends to ensure that due process is followed, Mr. Ryan’s rights are protected, and that he does not think that Mr. Ryan is in Sanders County right now.

Despite his lawyer’s claims that he would fight extradition, Jerry DeLemus’s attorney did not file an objection with the Federal Court in New Hampshire to DeLemus being extradited to Nevada. As a result the Federal Court in New Hampshire has ruled that DeLemus will be extradited to Nevada where he will sit in jail and await his trial in regards to the events that occurred at Cliven Bundy’s Bunkerville Ranch in 2014.

The Koch backed/funded American Lands Council, some of whose members that are elected officials have gotten themselves on the rader of Federal Law Enforcement for their interjecting themselves into the Malheur Occupation, including its planning, has recruited a perfect candidate to run for the Montana State Legislature. This should be fun…

Finally, and courtesy of admitted Bundy junky (that’s junky, not groupie – ewww….) LAO, we have this lovely manifesto written by Ryan Bundy as an answer to News2Share’s questions to him. Click across to read the whole thing. They have both his handwritten responses, which you can click on to read, and transcriptions they made for ease of reading.

 

Steeple Sheeple (Open Thread)
Nattering Naybobs of Nihilism






126 replies
  1. 1
    redshirt says:

    I’m #teamalice

  2. 2
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @redshirt: is that to be read as tea malice or team alice? Or more bizarrely teama lice? Or a badly mispelled teamal ice, which is like a poorly spelled Tamil hip hop act.

  3. 3
    scav says:

    Maybe it’s a misplaced recipe offering: Tea Ma Lice. Not many non-plant-based tisanes, one must admit.

  4. 4
    Seebach says:

    What’s the likelihood of the Ted Cruz sex scandal thing being real? Roger Stone has been on it for a few weeks. Apparently one of the five women is Trump’s campaign spokeswoman.

  5. 5
    LAO says:

    2days ago, Shawna Cox moved to modify the conditions of her pre trial release to remove home detention from her bond. Pre-trial services consented and the government opposed. I didn’t have time today to check if the government filed written objections.

  6. 6
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Seebach: Need more details here. As in I’m not sure what you’re talking about.

  7. 7
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @LAO: I have a feeling the government will be back with her Facebook post trying to have her remanded until trial.

  8. 8
    Seebach says:

    @Adam L Silverman: It would be irresponsible not to speculate

    http://www.nationalenquirer.co.....ng-claims/

    The internet claims to have ID’d two of the photos

  9. 9
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Seebach: I just did a keyword search: National Enquirer, InfoWars, and Gateway Pundit is no way to go through a campaign scandal…

  10. 10
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    Thanks Adam, for the fix. I was suitable distressed by the photos when I saw them earlier, yet relieved that the worst were probably not published. I knew you’d find it and thus didn’t send it.

    @LAO: I did not have time (or a PACER account) to check today either.

  11. 11
    JPL says:

    @Seebach: Yes it would. just sayin

  12. 12
    Seebach says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Yeah yeah, I know it’s not the preferred way to do business, but Ted Cruz is such a disgusting human being I want it to be real. Is it wrong to have dreams?

    It would also put Trump’s bizarre wife attacks in context and it would further destabilize the GOP.

  13. 13
    LAO says:

    Oh, and Runnels is definitely a constitutional sheriff. http://m.nbcmontana.com/news/T.....s/18256100

    @Adam L Silverman: I’ll check Pacer
    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): I’m on it!

  14. 14
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Seebach: Given that one of the potential sources, the Trump campaign, has at its spokesperson one of the potential mistresses, its just icky. I personally could care less what people do with their genitalia as long as everyone is able to and does consent and no one is being a hypocrite. As a result I am enjoying the brouhaha around the Governor of Alabama, and Cryptkeeper body/stunt double, over his own affairs running counter to his Christian values self promotion.

  15. 15
    LAO says:

    Nothing yet. I’m kinda disappointed.

  16. 16
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @LAO: tracking

  17. 17
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): @LAO: Get help.

    @Adam L Silverman: You gotta stop enabling them.

  18. 18
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    @LAO:

    I also expect the govt objection to refer to the FB post and oppose release for home detention in favor of remand. These people are dumb.

  19. 19
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: I forgot to DVR this week’s episode of Lucha Underground. So I’ve got to do something for entertainment until they put it up on demand next Monday.

  20. 20
    Seebach says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I don’t care what people do with their genitalia or what bathrooms you use or whatever. But Ted Cruz does care. So I just feel it’s very important that people know if there’s anything there.

    I guess we’ll see if this amounts to anything, but having Ted Cruz out of politics would be a wonderful thing.

  21. 21
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): I almost wrote something to the effect of “and in the unable to learn anything category” in the Ryan paragraph. It isn’t just that they’re dumb, I get the impression that Seim is quite bright. Rather it is that they are both unwilling and unable to adjust their beliefs and actions in light of empirical reality contradicting them.

  22. 22
    LAO says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: hey now, it’s just a hobby. It’s not like I do this for a living. . .

  23. 23
    Luthe says:

    I don’t understand the occupiers. If I were, for some insane reason, to find myself living in a wildlife refuge headquarters, I would be careful not to damage anything because I would want to remain in a nice habitable environment. The level of destruction there doesn’t make sense to me.

    … but then again, I live on Planet Reality, so.

  24. 24
    LAO says:

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): they’re not dumb (per se). They’re worse, they’re true believers.

  25. 25
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Seebach: The issue is that on the GOP side this becomes a prodigal son and reformed sinner moment. It didn’t hurt Vitter and it didn’t hurt Sanford. Now if he cheated with someone underage – male or female – or with a gay male adult, that would be a different story with his supporters. Trump has written sections in at least two books describing his extramarital affairs and cuckolding and there is audio recording of him bragging about his cuckolding and taunting the guy he cuckolded. Its not hurting him at all. Links at the link:
    http://www.slate.com/articles/.....ogyny.html

  26. 26
    Miss Bianca says:

    The Koch backed/funded American Lands Council, some of whose members that are elected officials have gotten themselves on the rader of Federal Law Enforcement for their interjecting themselves into the Malheur Occupation, including its planning, has recruited a perfect candidate to run for the Montana State Legislature.

    OK, I clicked thru’ out of morbid curiosity and now I wish I hadn’t.

    I thought I was pissed about these Koch-backed bastards and their minion leagues before but now I just feel like there’s no circle of the Hell I don’t believe in to be deep enough, hot enough, cold enough, whatever for them. Is there just NO END to this asshattery?

    God, what has happened to me…am I finally just too disgusted to be amused?

  27. 27
    Davebo says:

    As much as I despise them I’m just not seeing 6 million in damages there. Looks more like a place a renter bailed out of in a hurry. With the addition of the crude latrines.

  28. 28
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Miss Bianca: I haven’t forgotten your questions. This week starting going (positively) sideways on Tuesday and I’m just about getting it back on track.

  29. 29
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Davebo: There’s the feces filled trench. They completely destroyed the plumbing. And they destroyed at least one Pauite heritage site.

  30. 30
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: That’s not nice. I have no comment beyond that.

    @LAO: I almost went with “passionate about the cause, but not terribly bright.”

    I plead fatigue from my interview and a Pagan (attempted) celebration of Purim.

  31. 31
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    am I finally just too disgusted to be amused?

    Elvis Costello would be appalled.

  32. 32
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): If you’re of Irish descent you could just run the two holidays together: St. Purim’s Day. Where you celebrate Esther and the Jews victory over the snakes of Ireland and the English crown by drinking beer and eating triangular cookies.

  33. 33
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): It was written with the best of intentions. I am worried that you two will be hustling on the street corners for Bundy news before too long. And I care. Deeply.

  34. 34

    I read Bundy’s letter. Have a summary/fisking hybrid.

    We are productive American people who want nothing more than to live peaceful lives.

    Wow. I’m amazed his nose didn’t impale the moon on that one.

    This is what makes freedom the most fundamental principle.

    Three paragraphs of justification about this, mostly with religion. These guys seriously, seriously think they should get to do whatever the fuck they want and how dare anyone tell them they can’t. They don’t frame it with any limits or context.

    Satan also uses greed, lust, wealth, murder, homosexuality, hate, theft, fornication, and a host of other sins to bring people into bondage.

    Lengthy section on Satan making people sinful. This is a letter steeped in religion. He blames all of people’s suffering, including slavery (A message for ‘the Negro’?), on them being punished for their sins.

    These sins cannot be stopped by laws or force.

    I really wonder how this guy feels about abortion laws.

    Freedom to pursue happiness in the way they choose without being controlled by an oppressive government.

    Constant, relentless harping on ‘freedom.’ Paragraphs and paragraphs of it. Damn, what selfish little toddlers.

    we don’t dare to do a darn thing to move about freely, to start a business, build our houses, travel about or becomes something without getting the permission of one government agency or other, permits, licenses etc… etc… THAT IS NOT FREEDOM FOLKS!

    Yep. They just plain want to be able to do whatever they feel like without laws or oversight, like the special little babies they are. Note that Sovereign Citizens hate drivers’ licenses and especially paying for car registrations.

    Do you have that kind of courage? DO YOU?

    Towards the end, it gets really shouty and tells all Americans to stand up and fight tyranny. Like building safety codes, apparently.

  35. 35
    LAO says:

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): I hope the interview went well. Not to make you miss criminal defense work, but today had 2 clients, independent of each other, cry in my presence (strong emotions are not my thing. I can’t believe I’m not a WASP) and I spent 2 hours in a federal jail, trying not to touch anything, including my sobbing client. With no tissues.
    So, looking for new work.

  36. 36
    Steeplejack says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I read commenter hueyplong’s nym as “Huey Plong,” which sounds almost but not quite risqué.

  37. 37
    LAO says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: LOL. Appreciate you concern.@Frankensteinbeck: G-d bless you, cause I couldn’t get through it.

  38. 38
    Steeplejack says:

    Redacted.

  39. 39
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I thought of adding colored chalk for Holi and doing St. Purim’s Holiday. Bushmills and crispy triangular cookies since Esther sent all the snakes to England. (Paternal grandparents English and Irish).

  40. 40
    Adam L Silverman says:

    OT: this is hysterical
    https://www.youtube.com/embed/gghfoRKVPCo?rel=0

    The Mominator sent it to me.

  41. 41
    Peter Moore says:

    @LAO:

    The CSPOA list is still available at archive.org. The Oct 1 version lists includes Tom Rummel from Sanders Montana.

  42. 42
    Davebo says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I dunno. You can fill in the trench. As for the plumbing, you can replace every structure on the site for less than 6 million.

    And I’d say any Pauite heritage site is beyond legitimate valuation so you have me there.

  43. 43
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Frankensteinbeck: The Founders and Framers wrote and talked about liberty. Which was not the same thing to them as freedom. And it was certainly nothing along the lines of what these folks are on about.

  44. 44
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    No problem. Figured you was swamped to the eyeballs, gettin’ LAO and Bella Q their fix, among other things…we’re gonna have to start calling you The Pusher…

  45. 45

    @LAO:
    It’s moderately long, but there’s almost no content. A hundred rephrasings of ‘God says we should be free to make our own choices. The Constitution says we should be free.’ with ‘RISE UP LIKE THE FOUNDING FATHERS!!!’ at the end. There are almost no specifics. The weirdest thing is his statement that they didn’t break any laws. These guys live in a fantasy world where nobody is the boss of them, nuh uh.

  46. 46
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Yeah, well…I kinda wondered why Elvis hasn’t been returning my calls…

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    You…you READ that whole thing? (stunned, awed silence)

  47. 47
    Davebo says:

    @Adam L Silverman: That was pretty awesome. I especially loved the St Bernard because I remember my Dad trying to get ours up the stairs once. 160lbs of drooling love!

  48. 48
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    @Frankensteinbeck: I need more alcohol to read it, but since I’m celebrating today, I may get to it.

    @Omnes: I’m grateful for your concern. Truly; thank you. @ Miss Bianca: Please don’t forget Steve in the ATL, who mentioned he’s been quite busy with actual work this week, but is part of our group with an enthusiastic interest.

    @LAO: That’s the kind of day when I don’t miss it, though I had to confess at the interview that I do miss court, when I was asked what kind of law I practiced.

    I think the interview went well; all four members of the search committee who attended asked questions and seemed engaged with my responses. Is it generally considered a positive sign when a member of the committee comes over to hug you when you arrive?

  49. 49

    @Miss Bianca:
    With eyeballs already strained from Benign Vertigo. It was not a smart decision and I am going to go lie down now.

  50. 50
    LAO says:

    @Frankensteinbeck: Agreed, if you don’t recognize the authority of the federal government, then you don’t recognize its law, so your not actually breaking them. I picture it, like someone refusing to recognize the laws of gravity. Useless.

  51. 51
    LAO says:

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Excellent. My fingers will remain crossed.

  52. 52
    Amaranthine RBG says:

    Anyone have a breakdown of where the $6 million in damages figure comes from?

    If they had burned the whole thing to the ground, I can’t imagine that it would cost more than $300-400K to rebuild it all.

  53. 53
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): They’ve handed the government everything the government needs to lock their worthless asses up forever. All because of the arrogance of their stupidity.

  54. 54
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    @Davebo: I think the $6M includes not only structural (buildings and land), and equipment damage, but also relo costs for the refuge workers who had to be sent away with their families as well as paid their salary. Not to mention disposal costs for the rotting food and all the clean up supply and labor costs. It adds up.

  55. 55
    CaseyL says:

    @Amaranthine RBG: They tore down signs, bulldozed areas, built a road which will have to be removed, and ruined the septic system. Ruining the septic system could mean sewage is now in the ground and will have to be dug out.

    And you can’t just bury feces if they’re in a sensitive area: you have to clean them out and remediate the soil they were in.

  56. 56
    Miss Bianca says:

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):

    I haven’t forgotten Steve. Just cause he ain’t speaking up right now doesn’t mean I can’t see him, nodding out next to all y’all…sad, really. ; )

  57. 57
    Davebo says:

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):

    That makes more sense. The costs could be recouped at least partially with the sale of a particular ranch in Nevada.

    But then the liens that should be on it are already encompassing. We could confiscate Ammonds business in Arizona but it’s been “feeding of the government tit” so that asset of the “rugged individualist” is a waste of time.

  58. 58
    Mnemosyne says:

    A palate cleanser for the cat fans: Tidy Cat’s “How to Care for Your Human”.

  59. 59
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): There is a legend (myth? midrash?) that Hezekiah, the 13th King of Judea, sent one of his son’s to Eire as an emissary and he married a Princess of Tara. It is part of an interesting explanation for the Holy Grail. That this coast hopping route, which established limited trade and limited connection between the two peoples, was later taken by one of the sons of Joseph of Arimathea who was tasked with taking the Holy Grail to Eire for safekeeping. In this telling the Holy Grail is a copy of the Law (Torah) handwritten by Jesus for the members of his community. This last part is interesting and significant as all Jews (Jewish males technically) are commanded to make a copy of the Law for themselves. Since the average individual, even most above average individuals, are unable to do so and produce a pure (kosher) copy for themselves, it fell upon the rabbi or rabbis of each community of Jews. This is the only commandment that can be fulfilled vicariously. There’s a book about it written by a now retired from Claremont McKenna. I just spent 1/2 an hour trying to find it as I can’t remember her name nor the book’s title. It was quite interesting.

  60. 60
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Davebo: The day I brought my current younger dog home I had to use treats to get her up the stairs as she’d never been up stairs before. She had a lot of “where am I, what’s going on, how did I get here” anxiety for the first few hours until she realized she had a big sister to snuggle up to on the bed (which she was too small to jump up to at that point), plenty of good food and treats, and me to rub her belly.

  61. 61
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Wow…I thought I was up on all the crazy myths tying Middle Eastern religious figures to Britain and Ireland…now I realize I only know the Christian ones.

  62. 62
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @efgoldman: Hmmm. Pear? Pear died green? Anything died green?

  63. 63
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    @efgoldman: Key lime curd? That sounds yummy.

    @Adam L Silverman: That books sounds really interesting.

  64. 64
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Miss Bianca: My understanding is that this one, about the marriage of a Prince of Judea and a Princess of Tara, runs both ways. Its both part of the myths and legends of ancient Eire and the Kingdom of Tara and in the Midrash (rabbinic legends and mythical apocrypha). Sometimes its the son of Zedekiah, the last King of Judea before its destruction by Babylon. Its pretty clear that the nautical technology of the time from the Levant could make the trip. Coast hopping all the way around the Med. Then through the Straits and up the coast. The grail part of the legend indicates that Marseilles, which is a shortening of the Port of the Two Marys, was named because of this trip. As in either Mary the Mother of Jesus and Mary Magdalene were part of the small group of Jesus’s community that fled with the grail or it was named in their honor.

  65. 65
    scav says:

    I could manage about a page (unexpected saccharine overdose), but detected a very thin skin and consciousness that they are being laughter at — correcting the spelling and grammar, but the bit that made me laugh was the savory beef and sweetest melons. I think those care packages of dildos stuck a nerve and somehow they seem psychologicaly Trump kin in their neediness and skin depth.

  66. 66
    LAO says:

    I better sign off before I OD, good night all. Thanks again Adam.

  67. 67
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): I wish to anyone’s/no one’s, everyone’s Deity that I could remember the title. There are over 300 books dealing with the grail as a subject right now on Amazon, so I started to get glazed over around page 60. If you can find it, its well worth it. She writes very well and she has done a large amount of research into the mythos and legends. Is it true? Who knows. But I can say that from a Jewish/Judaic side, that one of the most important things that a community built around a scholarly master (rabbi) would want to preserve was the copy of the Law he had copied out.

  68. 68
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    @LAO: I’m headed to rack out as well. Adam, thanks not only for the fix, but for the interesting book hunt.

    Wishing everyone a terrific Friday.

  69. 69
    Tyro says:

    we don’t dare to do a darn thing to move about freely, to start a business, build our houses, travel about or becomes something without getting the permission of one government agency or other, permits, licenses etc… etc… THAT IS NOT FREEDOM FOLKS!

    If I have to think about the various challenges I face in life, I don’t think that applying for permits and licenses even ranks as a vaguely important thing that bothers me in terms of constraining my freedom. This might be because I am surrounded by lots of people and am very aware how my decisions affect others and thus the need for a government to serve as an arbiter and monitor of public actions.

    But from the sound of these guys, you’d think the American revolution was fought over the British Crown forcing people to apply for building permits or something.

  70. 70
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Its driving me nuts! I won’t be able to sleep!

  71. 71
    JanieM says:

    @scav: As to correcting the spelling and grammar, somebody certainly believed it when the teacher said never to end a sentence with a preposition:

    Do I think our stand in Oregon was worth it? Well you tell me. Has it awakened a nation to the awful situation in which we are?

    Not that I could stand to read the whole thing to that point, I was just skimming the beginnings of paragraphs.

  72. 72
    Prescott Cactus says:

    @LAO:

    Oh, and Runnels is definitely a constitutional sheriff.

    Via a cached webpage grab of CSPOA list he was as of Jan 15th .

  73. 73
    Peale says:

    @Adam L Silverman: meh. Five at once? I think it might pay to look more closely into his campaign finances and how he spends them. Yeah, Senators make ok pay, but not enough to pay for that many mistresses. If Henry Cisneros can be hounded out of politics, so can Ted Cruz. His wife is rich…I don’t think he is.

  74. 74
    Peale says:

    @Tyro: travel about? I’ve actually been places where governments make it difficult to get around. So I don’t know which country he lives in. Maybe he’s showing empathy to Africans Americans harassed by NYPD when they’re in the wrong parts of Manhattan?

  75. 75
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Peale: It would explain the pained look of exhaustion on his face all the time…

  76. 76
    redshirt says:

    @Adam L Silverman: It’s Tea Malice, actually.

  77. 77
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    That is a story that cries out for a modern re-telling…

    ETA: I mean, the Princess of Tara and the Prince of Judea…(not the Bundy Bunch)..my God, it just sings, doesn’t it? “Sing, O Muse…”

    OK, I’m getting slaphappy. Time for some Star Trek and bed…

  78. 78
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Miss Bianca: Its why I tried to find the link to that book. I am so not going to be able to sleep tonight!

  79. 79
    Prescott Cactus says:

    @Peale:

    meh. Five at once?

    A fistful of pardons in a prison is all I can think of.

  80. 80
    Mike in NC says:

    @Amaranthine RBG: You’re just a genius, aren’t you?

  81. 81
    redshirt says:

    SPOILERS FOR DAREDEVIL SEASON 2!!!
    READ NO FURTHER FOR SPOILER REASONS!!!

    I forget which episode but when Frank Castle is in jail and then kills all the criminals of cell block B. It’s a weird feeling because you simultaneously agree and disagree with everything he is.

    Then we learn it’s Fisk’s attempt to kill him. And then it’s Castle’s control over Fisk….

  82. 82
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Prescott Cactus: One still has doubts. I mean, I am a straight guy who can understand how other men can be seen as attractive, alluring, or sexy. I can’t, without drugs*, conceive of how Cruz could be seen that way.

    *For whom the drugs is an open question.

  83. 83
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Yes, now you know that more than you require it. I trust your Google-Fu. : )

  84. 84

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    The weirdest thing is his statement that they didn’t break any laws. These guys live in a fantasy world where nobody is the boss of them, nuh uh.

    Mostly, I think they live in a world where the federal government is much more restricted than it actually is. Most of the laws they broke either had effect because they were committed on federal property or arose indirectly because they were responding to federal law enforcement trying to stop their occupation. Because they don’t recognize the right of the federal government to own Malheur in the first place, they disregard all the federal laws governing it and claim that all the federal law enforcement actions were illegitimate and thus their resistance to them was legal. If you’re willing to accept that basic, kooky premise, the argument that they weren’t doing anything illegal seems a lot more reasonable.

  85. 85
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Miss Bianca: I’ve done almost a dozen different searches already and I’m coming up with bupkis.

  86. 86
    elftx says:

    Once while camping at Canyonlands I did have one of the best tasting cantaloupes I’ve ever eaten.
    Have no clue it it was from a Bundy ranch but that’s the only thing he may have a point on.
    The rest is churchin bs so all he has to do is ask forgiveness..crime solved!!
    I am grateful they are such ‘true believers’ willingly braying to the world their lawlessness.
    Ryan’s letter really pissed me off. May he rot.
    Thanks for keeping us up to date on all this.

  87. 87
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    *No one*, gay, straight, or any combination thereof, could *possibly* find Ted Cruz attractive enough to bed. Drugs are the only answer. Just sayin’…’just say no’.

  88. 88
  89. 89
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Miss Bianca: We are on the same page.

  90. 90
    scav says:

    @JanieM: Now I’m laughing even harder because of all the arbitrarily imposed rules to choose to obey, they chose those Roman ones jammed down the throat of English.

  91. 91
    Prescott Cactus says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    *For whom the drugs is an open question.

    Which drug would also be an open question. I imagine the quantity required would be a lot.

  92. 92
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Prescott Cactus: Which depends on for whom. Shitloads is understood.

  93. 93
    Mary G says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Can you please post pics of your furry family?

  94. 94
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Mary G: We practice furry family OpSec (operational security) at all times.

  95. 95
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I may have a source I can consult…I will let you know if I am successful.

    And now really, I wish you (all) goodnight.

  96. 96

    @Adam L Silverman:

    The grail part of the legend indicates that Marseilles, which is a shortening of the Port of the Two Marys, was named because of this trip.

    Which is obvious nonsense, since it was knows as Massalia since it was founded by the Greeks at about the time of Zedekiah’s reign and centuries before Christ.

  97. 97
    Prescott Cactus says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: True and make that Elvis strength.

    Thanks Adam

    Night all

  98. 98

    @Tyro:

    This might be because I am surrounded by lots of people and am very aware how my decisions affect others and thus the need for a government to serve as an arbiter and monitor of public actions.

    I think this gets at a core issue in the urban/rural divide. People who live in close quarters are much more conscious of their effects on others and- perhaps more to the point- others effects on them, so they tend to focus a lot on negative freedom (i.e. freedom from others doing to them). In contrast, people living far away from others are much less affected by what other people do, so they tend to focus on positive freedom (i.e. freedom to do as they choose).

  99. 99
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Roger Moore: If I’m recalling correctly it was renamed after the early Christian period. The legend, as laid out in the book (which I read in 1995) doesn’t claim Marseilles was named for the two Marys during the reign of Zedekiah, but that it was renamed sometime after Joseph of Arimethea and his sons passed through it en route to Ireland with the Grail.

  100. 100
    redshirt says:

    I find the early Greek colonies to be amazing. They had set up shop in Gibraltar, for crying out loud, in 1500BCE.

  101. 101
    NotMax says:

    @Omnes Omnibus

    Beer goggles would certainly be insufficient.

    A beer hazmat suit, maybe?

    But even then… no. Everything about the man is enough to gag a maggot.

  102. 102
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Roger Moore: And I’m not arguing any of this is true, I was just recounting the legend for Bella Q.

  103. 103
    La Caterina (Mrs. Johannes) says:

    @Roger Moore: @Roger Moore: Thanks for that analysis. I had not thought of it that way before.

    I live in very close quarters (Brooklyn). Still, it’s comforting to find the site back up to JuiceCon 5 and a few Juicers still awake to divert me from insomnia.

  104. 104
  105. 105
    La Caterina (Mrs. Johannes) says:

    @redshirt: They haven’t quite made it to my block yet.

  106. 106
    redshirt says:

    @La Caterina (Mrs. Johannes): In Brooklyn?! The war must be fought block by block.

  107. 107
    Steeplejack says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Like Roger Moore, I was skeptical, and I couldn’t find anything on the Google to support the idea, in fact or legend, of Marseille being named, or renamed, after the two Marys. It’s much more likely that the name was a gradual evolution/corruption of the original Greek and Roman name(s).

    And I couldn’t get a line on the book you mentioned either, based on the details you provided. Sorry about that. I know how maddening it is to have some fact or resource just beyond one’s reach.

  108. 108
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Steeplejack: It was an interesting read, especially if one likes myth and legend – including Arthurian. I’m not claiming any of it is provable.

  109. 109
    redshirt says:

    @Adam L Silverman: But Marseilles is a Greek city state for hundreds of years. Circa 800-400 BCE. But there’s lots of stories for hundreds of years prior. Greek stories.

  110. 110
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @redshirt: I know and I’m sure. I am merely the messenger here. That’s why I said this was legend, not fact or history. Its fun – doesn’t mean its accurate.

  111. 111
    Adam L Silverman says:

    Overnight open thread is up. Have at it.

  112. 112
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Roger Moore: I’m not willing to accept that utterly ridiculous premise, or the oxymoronic concept of the “sovereign citizen” either.

    These people are behaving like three year old screaming “you’re not the boss of me!”

  113. 113
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Roger Moore: Yes, but that’s the sort of bullshit I’d expect; especially from people trying to eek out short term profit utterly heedless of the long term consequences of their actions.

  114. 114
    mtmofo says:

    State Senator Jennifer Fielder is an officer of some level of ALC. She represents some of the Sanders County area.

    http://flatheadbeacon.com/2016.....-standoff/

    http://flatheadbeacon.com/2016.....rs-county/

  115. 115
    Viva BrisVegas says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Its fun – doesn’t mean its accurate.

    It’s all fun and games until somebody trips over and gets a myth stuck in their head.

    Which explains the Bundys.

  116. 116
    redshirt says:

    I for real want to create a cool ultra-special van for traveling the country. With a dog and a handful of nerds. Simulated nerds.

  117. 117

    @Villago Delenda Est:
    That’s what a Sovereign Citizen is, ‘You’re not the boss of me!’ plus ‘Judges hate him! Get out of paying car registration fees with this one trick!’

  118. 118
    Mj_Oregon says:

    Add to the Bundy/Constitutional Sheriffs mix is this turd-like piece of legislation, courtesy of Rep. Jason Chaffetz, R-UT. Just what the West needs, NO federal law enforcement on public lands, just what can be provided by the county sheriff. What could possibly go wrong? oy…

  119. 119
    Origuy says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Was the daughter’s name Tephi, and the father perhaps Zedikiah, not Hezikiah? If so, then I think you are thinking of The Book of Tephi. Or perhaps a modern retelling of it. It sounded like the story of the Stone of Scone being originally the pillow of Jacob, when he dreamed of the ladder of angels.

  120. 120
    opiejeanne says:

    As to the cost of the cleanup of the Malheur Refuge, beyond just the tidying up and trash removal, there is also the planned carp cleanup in the lake, and they missed the window to do it efficiently so it’s going to cost a lot more if they do get the commercial fishing companies to come in. This was a big deal because the carp are so efficient at breeding and at destroying habitat for other fish and for birds. The idea was to divert the 3000 acres of water to another pond and clear it of carp, but because the rains came before the Bundy crowd left, the lake is over 20,000 acres and diverting that much water is probably not going to happen.

    Then there’s the damaged and stolen equipment that has to be replaced, the files that were scattered throughout the buildings, and worse. The occupiers rifled through files and computers looking for stored info on anyone connected to Malheur including volunteers, and their personal info has been compromised.

  121. 121
    PurpleGirl says:

    @Mnemosyne: Thank you for that. It’s so cute.

  122. 122
    Matt says:

    He’s still at large and the Bundy’s fellow travelers have decided to start working the refs, and the local sheriff, to try to keep him from being taken into custody.

    Clearly they are terribly lonely in jail, and would like to have both their lost yeehawdi brother *and* the local sheriff for company.

  123. 123
    Lurking Canadian says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Sure, it’s a straightforward matter of freedom of action. The Bundys are indeed free to do whatever they like.

    However, they are not the only free people in America. Other Americans are also free to do what they like. And one of the things other Americans like to do is lock up selfish assholes who wreck public land.

    The Bundys exercised their freedom. Then the rest of America exercised theirs.

    (Yes, I did crib this from a legend about the Raj)

  124. 124
    Riccardo Cabeza says:

    @Seebach: Creepy Cruz had affairs with five women, one of which is Trump’s spokesperson?

  125. 125

    […] Balloon Juice provides the service of keeping us up-to-date on the Bundy Bund. […]

  126. 126
    ConcernedCitizen says:

    @Frankensteinbeck:
    Please note these are mormon, specifically FLDS, beliefs… NOT christian beliefs!!! There is a huge difference. If you haven’t yet, research White Horse prophecy, you’ll find many parallels in the twisted thinking of this bunch. Then add the FLDS, sovcit, and freemason agendas together and you get a much clearer picture of this situation. LDS is the equivalent of the white mans islam. Every single major player in this was LDS, with the exception of Ritzheimer, who was baptised into the cult during the occupation. Then you will also see why that ONE specific “pocket constitution” is all they used… it’s the mormon twist on the constitution.
    If you are disgusted now, research the items above and you’ll find a whole new level of disgust.
    Oh and I can’t remember who posted about one of them being on the “grassy knoll” but look into William and McGeorge Bundy… yeah, they’re directly tied to JFKs assassination…

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