Late Night Open Thread

Have at it!






134 replies
  1. 1
    Adam L Silverman says:

    Have a great night. I’ve got dog bellies to rub.

  2. 2
    Kropadope says:

    Bernie Sanders supporter caught fucking pigeons in Plymouth, MA. Bernie doesn’t immediately denounce him. Bernie is not a fit leader for the Democratic party.

    Beat you to it, David Koch, you insufferable prick.

  3. 3
    Mike J says:

    Quals for Australian Grand Prix start in a little over an hour and a half! How can you sleep now?

  4. 4
    seaboogie says:

    @Adam L Silverman: @Kropadope:

    That may be the most Balloon-Juician one-two comment punch that I’ve ever read. You just never see that left hook coming when you are rubbing (or reading about rubbing) dog bellies.

  5. 5

    @Adam L Silverman: well I have cat bellies to ru–OW!

    Guess it’s back to writing about fish for me.

  6. 6
    Thoroughly Pizzled says:

    I am thoroughly disgusted by Michigan State’s elimination. 2016 has not been a kind year for Sparty.

  7. 7
    Mike J says:

    @Kropadope: I won’t denounce Bernie as a leader for the Democratic party. I’ll reserve that for Democrats.

  8. 8
    🚸 Martin says:

    @Mike J: I know – very exciting. Not sure about these stupidly complex tire rules, but I think the radio restrictions will really shake things up. I think Nico is fucked without the radio. I think Lewis and Vettel have pretty good intuition and will do well.

  9. 9
    Yutsano says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Oh yeah: you ever back up in this neck of the woods you are required to come to the mett-up we set up for you. It was fun.

  10. 10
    Mike J says:

    @Thoroughly Pizzled: I think the guy from Baylor could explain it. The other team scored more points.

  11. 11

    @Yutsano: yeah, yeah.

    Seriously, that was a wicked hangover. Oh, also I’ll maybe move there in the fall? Gotta get the hell out of SF…

  12. 12
    Mike J says:

    @🚸 Martin: Lewis is going to drive flat out and still use less fuel than anybody. He’s the king of smooth.

    I want to see Haas in the top 10. Great to see an American team back in it, and while Lewis is my favorite, good to see people who aren’t running Mercedes engines do well.

    Also watching for Hulkenberg, winner of the 24 hours of Le Mans. I want a Merc win. but c’mon Sahara!

  13. 13
    Kropadope says:

    @seaboogie: Thanks a lot, I just hurt my sternum laughing.

  14. 14
    Yutsano says:

    @Major Major Major Major: By all means keep us updated. I don’t think we started meet-ups, but damn if we didn’t set the bar for them.

    @Mike J: Oh. And. Snap.

  15. 15
    NotMax says:

    @Yutsano

    You mentioned a link to a recipe for lamb meatballs with eggplant sauce a few threads ago, but no linky.

    I haz a disappoint since.

  16. 16
    🚸 Martin says:

    @Mike J: Haas is looking surprisingly good for a new team. And I agree about wanting to see them do well. Too bad they’re running Ferrari engines. I like Ericsson as well – glad to see he’s got a drive again. And I would like to see McLaren competitive again. I always liked them.

    Basically I just want Ferrari at the back of the grid.

  17. 17
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Kropadope:
    Bernie was aware that the pigeons were willing participants. So there was nothing for him to denounce.

  18. 18
  19. 19
  20. 20
    rikyrah says:

    Good night 🌃, Everyone.
    Have a good sleep 💤

  21. 21

    @Yutsano: I’ll fit right in with my current coffee intake, I’m sure.

  22. 22
    Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again) says:

    The Mothership is about to land at the Smithsonian.

    Parliament Give Up the Funk

  23. 23
    Kropadope says:

    @Amir Khalid: Yeah, we’re pretty libertine up here.

    @Andy:I like your enthusiasm. I play safe. I hope you don’t mind, I’d like to meet first in a public venue, spend some time.

  24. 24
    Mike J says:

    @Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again): The Smithsonian just has their thumb on the scale for Clinton.

  25. 25
    Andy says:

    @Kropadope: I’m celibate. You can have at it!

  26. 26
    Kropadope says:

    @Andy: I though so. Tease.

  27. 27
    Yutsano says:

    @Mike J: Can’t participate. Work rules. AKA fuck you Hatch Act.

    @NotMax: Thank you for the reminder! Chef John makes really good stuff and I stand behind this. Hell I even got a guy who HATES eggplant to try this and he liked it!

  28. 28
    Tenar Darell says:

    Here, have some art talk…
    Today I went to the ICA in Boston for a treat to myself. I signed up for Walid Raad’s Walkthrough of Scratching on things I could disavow. Sometimes you encounter artworks &/or exhibits that blow your mind. Today was one of those for me, and I will be feeling it for a while. I still don’t have words really. This is the best review I’ve read, if you’re curious.

  29. 29
    Andy says:

    @Kropadope: No tease here. I’ll bust anyone’s balls that have merit….

  30. 30
    mclaren says:

    If Trump gets the nomination, we can all get rich selling editions of the Bardo Thodol. So there’s that.

  31. 31
    Kropadope says:

    @Andy: Doin a good job so far ;-)

  32. 32
    Mike J says:

    @Yutsano: The Hatch act prevents you from being in a caucus? I want a ruling from counsel here.

  33. 33
    Amir Khalid says:

    An important question considered, for Balloon Juicers who drive cars and have canine family members.

  34. 34
    bk says:

    This site has become unreadable (from a logistical point of view). Sorry, but all of the repeated fixes have made it suck.

  35. 35
    Mnemosyne says:

    Since I had to have a migraine at work all day today, at least my boss was out so I was able to be unproductive without anyone noticing. Hopefully the damn thing will be gone by morning.

  36. 36
    Mike J says:

    @mclaren: It’s a pity Bardo Rodeo closed. Was one of my favorite DC area bars.Brewed their own beer, showed movies, lots of pool tables. There are very, very few places in the history of the world that didn’t provide live music that I liked hanging out in. BR was one of the few.

  37. 37
  38. 38
    Tenar Darell says:

    Also, broke out my Verve Story CD box set. Have some Oscar Peterson in Tokyo

  39. 39
    NotMax says:

    @Yutsano

    Heh. Was guessing it was Chef John.

  40. 40
    divF says:

    @Mike J: Not to be confused with the Pan-Pacific Grand Prix.

  41. 41

    @Mike J: My dad wasn’t allowed to run a polling place when he worked at Jusice, as I recall.

  42. 42
    Yutsano says:

    @Mike J: The rules say partisan political activity like a caucus. I’ll check again when I get to work on Monday as I may be interpreting them wrong. I also think the Hatch Act is straight up unconstitutional bullshit anyway.(you can make rules about activity at work but some things are just banned period?) but I’d love to work on getting this area some actual decent representation.

    It doesn’t help the minorities in this area punch WAY below their weight when it comes to voting.

  43. 43
    magurakurin says:

    @Kropadope: I can’t believe what this random Sanders supporter just said

    If you are the frontrunner in the nominating process, even if you have a significant delegate lead, that delegate lead with pledged delegates can become very soft if you don’t continue to win. That’s the point I’m trying to illustrate.

    We don’t have a plan at the moment to start calling all the Clinton delegates once they get selected and try to sway them individually to vote for Bernie Sanders. But we do believe that if we can succeed in this last half of the process as much as Hillary did or even more so, that there will be enormous pressure on people who are delegates at this convention to do the right and responsible thing.

    We think the right and responsible thing will be to support the candidate who is the strongest candidate to go up against the Republicans, particularly if the Republicans select Donald Trump as the nominee. We really think it changes the game in a fundamental way.

    After the ’80 convention and the Hunt commission, the standard in the Democratic Party was changed to the standard we now refer to as “fair reflection.” That is embodied in the rules of delegate selection, and also in the call to the convention.

    And it says, “A delegate shall, in all good conscience, reflect the sentiments of the voters who participated in primaries and caucuses.” That is our standard. Not a standard embodied in a law, for example, that says that you have to vote for somebody. By the way, many states do have laws like that but it’s been demonstrated constitutionally that those laws cannot be enforced in light of the Democratic Party’s very strong First Amendment associational interest to make its own party rules.

    The Democratic Party rule will define what happens in this instance. And that rule is a standard of fair reflections. Those delegates are free to do what they want to fairly reflect those sentiments of voters who participated in primaries and caucuses, but they are not bound in any way to do so.

    oh wait, that wasn’t a random supporter. It was the campaign manager. My bad.

  44. 44
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    @srv: Can’t argue with that. If saying mean but true things about David Brooks is qualification to be president, I deserve the nom. I’ve been doing it better and longer and I’ve got the massive hands to prove it.

  45. 45
    Kropadope says:

    @Andy: It’s been a pleasure nonetheless, believe me. Thanks for sending the video, I really enjoyed it.

  46. 46
    Mike J says:

    Waitwaitwaitwaitwait. The husband of the woman being banged by Hulk was Bubba the Love Sponge? I’ve paid so little attention to this that I didn’t know that people I know are involved?

    Worked for the same guy decades ago. Weird.

  47. 47
  48. 48
    patroclus says:

    Sanders may not have commented on the pigeon fucking incident, but others did:

    Trump: “I’m the greatest pigeon fucker ever. If I’m elected, pigeon fucking will be YOOGE.”

    Clinton: “Not many of us remember how difficult it was to talk about pigeon fucking in the 1980’s; but Nancy Reagan started a tremendous national conversation about it.”

    Kasich: “I will not wallow in the mud talking about pigeon fucking.”

    Rubio: “Let’s dispel this fiction once and for all that Barack Obama doesn”t know what he is doing. He knows exactly what he is doing. He’s undergoing a systematic effort to change this country and make America more like the rest of the world. If I’m elected, we’ll embrace what makes America the greatest country in the world – pigeon fucking.”

    Bill Clinton: “I did not have sexual relations with that pigeon.”

  49. 49
    Amir Khalid says:

    @magurakurin:
    If Bernie can’t win more Democratic voters than Hillary over the primary season, how is he the more electable candidate? Someone really needs to put this question to Tad Devine.

  50. 50
    Mai.naem.mobile says:

    What the fuck is Trumpster going to do if he becomes President? Tweet shit?
    ‘Angela Merkel is the worst President I have ever met and also too,she dresses frumpy. I have told her Melanoma can take her shopping in NY for the classiest clothes and the best plastic surgeons’
    ‘Kim Jung is indeed ILL and also very short and I can build a short wall around him. Why do his countrymen vote for him?’
    ‘Prince William of England is a stupid stupid man. He declined my offer to teach him how to do his hair like I do mine. However did this low energy loserman manage to get elected to his position?’

  51. 51

    @Amir Khalid: because everybody knows black voters in the south don’t count. Same argument Hillary tried to make in ’08.

  52. 52
    Kropadope says:

    @magurakurin:

    If you are the frontrunner in the nominating process, even if you have a significant delegate lead, that delegate lead with pledged delegates can become very soft if you don’t continue to win. That’s the point I’m trying to illustrate.

    Though I liked Bernie’s much simpler explanation earlier, that delegates should vote how their voters did, I get what this is driving at and it is nothing new to the primary process for either party. Not all the pledged delegates are necessarily decided on election night. That’s why Obama lost Texas in ’08, but wound up with more delegates and why Mitt Romney won Iowa in ’12 until suddenly Rick Santorum did. Besides, while I honestly don’t doubt for a second that Hillary Clinton hit the 1/64 chance on the coin flips, I can forgive one of the coin toss delegates for flipping and giving Bernie the pure tie.

    ETA: Besides, you don’t want me to open the Clintons’ file in the library of dumb campaign apparatchiks.

  53. 53
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Mai.naem.mobile:
    I’d hate to be the poor sod who must explain to President-elect Trump that for the country’s sake he needs to stop tweeting.

  54. 54
    Kropadope says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    because everybody knows black voters in the south don’t count. Same argument Hillary tried to make in ’08.

    First of all, she came way closer to actually arguing that than any Sanders partisan. Also, you forgot the part where she argued that delegates acquired in uncontested elections do count.

  55. 55
    piratedan says:

    @patroclus: well, if only the pigeons hadn’t been so feathered provocatively, then perhaps we could have avoided this incident….

  56. 56
    Mike J says:

    @Amir Khalid: Saw my first campaign commercial of the season tonight. A Sanders commercial during Jeopardy. I don’t see it moving a lot of votes. (WA cauc one week from tomorrow).

  57. 57
    magurakurin says:

    @Major Major Major Major: And I paid out on her for it then. That comment about Bobby Kennedy was really fucked up. But, in the end she pulled her head in, did the right thing and campaigned her ass off for Obama. I’m willing to give Sanders the same chance. All forgiven.

    But Mark Penn, the asshole who probably thought up Clinton’s argument in 08, and Tad Devine, Bernie’s asshole today…fuck them. No forgiveness for those pikers.

  58. 58
    Kropadope says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    If Bernie can’t win more Democratic voters than Hillary over the primary season

    Likely, but not yet mathematically determined.

  59. 59
    patroclus says:

    Sanders’ Simon and Garfunkle commercial is really good and he’s had some other good ones too. Hillary had some good ones too. I saw a whole bunch in the run-up to the Illinois primary, but thankfully, all the political ads are gone now.

  60. 60
    Kropadope says:

    @Yutsano:

    AKA fuck you Hatch Act.

    It’s either real good or real bad to have a law like that named after you. I may just keep reading to find out which.

  61. 61
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Kropadope:
    Another question, then: If Bernie can’t win more Democratic voters than Hillary over the primary season, will Tad Devine still try to argue that he’s the more electable candidate? Because if he does, then Tad will deserve to be laughed at.

  62. 62
    magurakurin says:

    @Kropadope: Devine and his boss are talking about a convention floor fight and they are providing the groundwork to justify the pledged delegates changing their vote. It’s a fantasy, of course, but it is a bullshit tactic on any level. And coming from this gang it is especially rich. They’ve spent the last six months literally shouting that the entire Democratic establishment, and Hillary Clinton in particular, is corrupt beyond repair and ole Honest Bernie is the only guy to right the ship. Now, when faced with being utterly rejected by the voters, they are turning to this very same corrupt establishment, the super delegates, to help them overturn the voter’s choice. If that isn’t enough, they are also suggesting quite clearly that it will be well within fair bounds for the bound delegates to switch their votes, which would be an absolute rejection of the will of the voters. So, you know, fuck that noise.

    If they want to pull their heads, they are welcome to do so at any time. If Sanders wants to go around the country and tell his young supporters that they damn sure better vote for Clinton, he will be most heartily welcomed to do so. But at he moment their campaign is making very clear noises that the Pied Piper might just lead his youthful support into the wilderness. Double plus ungood.

    but hey, bygones, it’s just politics.

  63. 63
    Nate Dawg says:

    @magurakurin: Not sure the two are equivalent. I haven’t seen Tad rise to the heights of incompetence + pathos that Mark Penn achieved.

  64. 64
    Mike J says:

    @Amir Khalid: He doesn’t get paid if he doesn’t argue it. The best he can hope for is to do as well for Sanders as he did for Dukakis.

  65. 65
    magurakurin says:

    @Nate Dawg: fair point, but in terms of his former bosses, like say Vikto Yanukovych, Devine is a scumbag’s scumbag for my money.

  66. 66
    Kropadope says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    Another question, then: If Bernie can’t win more Democratic voters than Hillary over the primary season, will Tad Devine still try to argue that he’s the more electable candidate?

    I agree the argument, under those particular circumstances, lacks credulity on many levels. One could argue, however, that levels of partisan Democratic support may not translate to consistent support from generally left independents.

    @efgoldman: Oh, I’m not. But I’ll be damned if I’ll let the possibility pass unmentioned while there are still about half the delegates left to allocate.

  67. 67

    @Kropadope: I’ve seen partisans arguing it, especially after Michigan, but you’re right, nobody on the campaign has done the “hard working white people” nonsense. (Yet.)

    The uncontested election thing was so weird in 2008. Stupid gun-jumping states.

  68. 68
    Yutsano says:

    @efgoldman: Again I may be interpreting this wrong, but there are rules against campaigning in public or something like that and one of the examples was caucusing. I also happen to think caucuses are anti-Democratic bullshit, but that’s different. I’ll check more on Monday.

  69. 69
    Mai.naem.mobile says:

    I heard my first Trump ad on the local progressive station. This station runs Stephanie Miller and Thom Hartmann. Arizona has a closed primary and the last day to register for the primary was over a month ago. And it’s on the actual local station not a national syndicated show ad. First I don’t see a Stephanie Miller or Thom Hartman listener voting for Trumpy but it’s too late to register anyhow. Me thinks the Donalds’s campaign peeps are either not that sharp or they’re taking him for a ride.

  70. 70
    Mike J says:

    @Yutsano: I’m fairly sure it means that you can’t run the caucus, not that you can’t participate at all. If you were the party official in charge of it, there might be a problem. I don’t see anything that stops you from going and expressing your preference, especially if you aren’t wearing your IRS uniform.

  71. 71
    Kropadope says:

    @magurakurin: Bernie’s been 100% consistently saying he support Hillary Clinton over the Republican candidate. His intent to support the party should be pretty damn clear, given his deciding to run as a Democrat rather than an Independent. I’m not sure, but shouldn’t he already be missing filing deadlines for an independent run?

    Despite your best efforts and despite my history of not supporting Dem candidates in the general AND despite the irrelevance of my presidential vote, I plan on voting for her. The vitriol I see here on a daily basis towards generalized Sanders supporters, which I can’t help but take personally, feels really bad after this seeming like the one semi-sane place for political discussion I’ve found in the last decade. So forgive me if I have a few sharp words to say back.

  72. 72
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    No pidgins were harmed in the production of these photographs: My visit to Descanso Gardens.

    ETA: 3D glasses(Red/Blue) will be helpful in viewing some photos(they have a small 3d icon in the bottom right).

  73. 73
    mclaren says:

    @Kropadope:

    The vitriol I see here on a daily basis towards generalized Sanders supporters, which I can’t help but take personally, feels really bad after this seeming like the one semi-sane place for political discussion I’ve found in the last decade.

    Hillary is a down-and-dirty campaigner, so as a Sanders supporter I don’t take it personally. Plus, if Hillary is the Democratic nominee, it assures me that she’ll go after the Republican nominee with a meat axe. Which I will be delighted to see. Rev up that chainsaw, Hills!

  74. 74
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Kropadope:

    One could argue, however, that levels of partisan Democratic support may not translate to consistent support from generally left independents.

    It’s been noted many times in these threads, and in other fine establishments where people gather to talk American politics, that many or most “independent voters” are really just Republicans too embarrassed to call themselves that in public. (And who can blame them, right?) So I have to wonder if there is really any significant number of left-leaning independents to be wooed.

    And so far Bernie has been less successful than Hillary in appealing to declared Democratic voters. But what is the argument that he is in fact more appealing than she to these left-leaning independents?

  75. 75
    mclaren says:

    @magurakurin:

    There will not be a floor fight at the Democratic national convention. There hasn’t been a brokered convention since 1952, and there won’t be one this year.

    The Sanders talk about a floor fight I take to be an effort to strengthen his negotiating position with Hillary. If you don’t think Sanders and his people are putting the screws to Hillary and her people, extracting every last concession they can get as to promises of cabinet appointments, specific policies enacted, etc., in return for Sanders swinging his support to her, you’re naive.

    Hillary ran vicious cryptoracist anti-Obama ads in 2008, then flipped and accepted a Secretary of State cabinet position from him. Hillary knows how this game is played.

    Nothing personal, folks. It’s just politics.

  76. 76
    Mike J says:

    New F! qual rules are bullshit.

  77. 77
    mclaren says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    And so far Bernie has been less successful than Hillary in appealing to declared Democratic voters.

    Your facts are in error.

    Hillary has been more successful than Sanders in appealing to older Democratic voters, particularly older women. Younger Democratic voters have overwhelmingly been flocking to Sanders. Hillary has been more successful than Sanders in appealing to Democratic voters in rich urban centers, while Sanders has been more successful than Hillary in appealing to rural Democratic voters. Hillary’s main edge appears to be among black voters, which is probably not significant insofar as these voters are unlikely to either sit out the election or vote for a Republican. So if Sanders is the nominee, it’s safe to say that black communities will vote for him.

    Moreover, your assumptions are unfounded.

    Turnout in the primary does not equate to turnout in the general election.

    The composition of the electorate in the primary is wholly different from the composition of the electorate in the general electoin.

    We also find ourselves in a transformational year, in which the base of both parties has rejected the anointed mainstream Beltway candidates in favor of outsiders.

    It is unwise to make linear projections from previous years in an election like 2016. Arguments like “no black man has ever been elected president” failed in 2008, and arguments like “no socialist has ever been elected president” or “no woman has ever been elected president” are likely to fail in 2016.

    This is a year of change. Beware of linear extrapolations.

  78. 78
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Mike J:
    They say that every year. About all the rules, especially the new ones. Sometimes I think Formula 1 would be more exciting if they broadcast the rules committee meetings instead of the races.

  79. 79
    Kropadope says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    It’s been noted many times in these threads, and in other fine establishments where people gather to talk American politics, that many or most “independent voters” are really just Republicans too embarrassed to call themselves that in public.

    Umm, excuse me, anyone who’s anyone in MA registers “unenrolled.” It gives you choices. If you have an option that opens up other options, you take it. Be enterprising. You earn my vote.

  80. 80
    🚸 Martin says:

    @Mike J: Yeah, I wasn’t sure I was going to like these, and so far I’m still not sure. I like the idea of guys not camping in the back of the garage until 2 minutes out, but this seems unnecessarily harsh.

    Looks like McLaren isn’t complete shit this year. And seems like Mercedes has been sandbagging as usual.

  81. 81
    mclaren says:

    @Mike J:

    Saw my first campaign commercial of the season tonight. A Sanders commercial during Jeopardy. I don’t see it moving a lot of votes.

    I’ll take `Which candidate this year will lead us to a socialist paradise?’ for $600.

  82. 82
    🚸 Martin says:

    @Amir Khalid: I think the best idea was to install sprinklers at the circuits and then just turn them on at random.

  83. 83
    mclaren says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    It’s been noted many times in these threads, and in other fine establishments where people gather to talk American politics, that many or most “independent voters” are really just Republicans too embarrassed to call themselves that in public.

    Once again, your facts are simply not correct.

    The share of independents in the public, which long ago surpassed the percentages of either Democrats or Republicans, continues to increase. Based on 2014 data, 39% identify as independents, 32% as Democrats and 23% as Republicans. (..) When the partisan leanings of independents are taken into account, 48% either identify as Democrats or lean Democratic; 39% identify as Republicans or lean Republican. The gap in leaned party affiliation has held fairly steady since 2009, when Democrats held a 13-point advantage (50% to 37%).

    Source: “A Deep Dive Into party Affiliation,” Pew Research Polls, 7 April 2015.

  84. 84
    Mike J says:

    @Amir Khalid: One of the Haas guys was on a fast lap and his 90 second window ran out. Had his lap counted, he would have moved from 20th to 8th place.

  85. 85
  86. 86
    Kropadope says:

    @mclaren:

    I’ll take `Which candidate this year will lead us to a socialist paradise?’ for $600.

    Let’s not get carried away. I believe it will be more like the same place roughly as Hillary Clinton, albeit with (edit)policy/ and intellectual foundations placed that could lead to a functional democratic socialist republic like we see in Europe. I’m comfortable with that.

  87. 87
    Amir Khalid says:

    @mclaren:
    Hillary is leading Bernie in the vote tally by some two and a half million votes. If the polling holds, she’ll lead him by a lot more when the primaries are done. But you’re right, we’ll see.

    Yes, this is a year of change as you say. If I shouldn’t assume my assumptions will hold, why should you assume yours will?

  88. 88
    mclaren says:

    @🚸 Martin:

    I’m looking forward to Trump explaining in the debate with Hillary that his choice for a Supreme Court nominee will be a mobbed-up lawyer with a sealed juvenile record. “I know a guy,” Trump will shout, “He’ll be classy! Very good lawyer. Great lawyer. The best. He got some guys off who do contracting work for me!”

  89. 89
    🚸 Martin says:

    @Mike J: Yeah, I think this countdown stuff should only apply to Q3. Q1 is too crowded for everyone to scramble and its too common for teams to have little hiccups at the start of sessions. The last thing the teams struggling to reach Q2 need is to have to get the fuck out of Lewis’ way.

    I really hope they change this before the next race.

  90. 90
    Kropadope says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    But what is the argument that he is in fact more appealing than she to these left-leaning independents?

    Polls showing Bernie with wider positive or more consistently positive general election matchups v the Rs.

  91. 91
    mclaren says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    Yes, this is a year of change as you say. If I shouldn’t assume my assumptions will hold, why should you assume yours will?

    Because you’re leaving Trump out of the equation. Bernie can run against Trump much better than Hillary can. Trump is a tailor-made cartoonish billionaire supervillain straight out of central casting for Bernie to run against. As Bugs Bunny was wont to say in the Looney Toones, “He’ll murderlate the guy!” All Bernie has to do is point at Trump and say “That’s the billionaire who wants to buy this country! He thinks he can buy the presidency! He’s an ignorant racist crook! That’s what I’m running against, right here!”

  92. 92
    🚸 Martin says:

    This qualifying setup is going to be a complete disaster in the rain. You may have no possible chance to improve your time in worsening conditions. Anyone could claim fastest lap based solely on whether they can get out first. And getting dropped immediately just because someone else leapfrogged you while you were changing tires is insane.

  93. 93
    demz taters says:

    @Yutsano: As a Fed myself, I have to step in and offer some defense for the Hatch Act. Public administration is inherently political, down to the level where employees can decide how effectively they deliver services to certain constituencies. And ethically, the bar in the Federal service is quite high – that we’re to avoid even the appearance of impropriety. Our role in the democratic process is to give each citizen we serve the assurance that we’ve done it in a completely non-partisan way.

  94. 94
    mclaren says:

    @Kropadope:

    Hillary has the largest negatives of any Democrat running in this election. Bernie Sanders has the highest positives of any Democrat running in this election.

    Of course, polls might not matter — but how does that square with Amir Khalid’s devotion to hard numbers and pragmatic down-to-earth practicality? Polls are all we have to go on, and they all show Bernie blowing Trump out of the water, particularly among independents — who skew Democratic by a good 13 percentage points.

  95. 95
    Mike J says:

    @🚸 Martin: Justice Snookie would disagree with Mr. Will.

  96. 96
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @mclaren:

    Bernie Sanders has the highest positives of any Democrat running in this election.

    I’m sure this will remain the case, say, in late September.

  97. 97
    Steeplejack says:

    @Tenar Darell:

    I love Oscar Peterson. But my favorite is Ahmad Jamal. “Stolen Moments.”

  98. 98
    Kropadope says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Well, in Bernie’s case the numbers can move some the other way and still have Bernie winning. Hillary’s have been known to occasionally show (gasp) that they need to move or else . . . they who shall not be named…

  99. 99
    Kropadope says:

    @mclaren:

    Because you’re leaving Trump out of the equation.

    Does that make Trump a negative, an inverse positive, or an inverse negative?

  100. 100
    mclaren says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    I’m sure this will remain the case, say, in late September.

    Against Trump? You bet they will.

    Sanders’ numbers against Trump will undoubtedly go more positive as the electoral flight from the Republican party turns into a stampede.

    Look at George Will’s revulsion agains the GOP-dominated House in his latest op-ed. Take a look at Ron Fournier’s latest tweet where he says:

    GOP (1854-2016)= Grand Old Party GOP (2016-)= Gone Oh-so-gone Party

    These long-time political whores and hacks, who eagerly denied global warming and French-kissed Dubya’s bunghole through the entire Iraq debacle, are now leaping from their sinking Republican party like rats with their tails on fire.

  101. 101
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Kropadope: I’ve seen what happens when a Presidential candidate says he’s going to raise people’s taxes. It wasn’t pretty.

  102. 102
    mclaren says:

    @Kropadope:

    Trump is an imaginary number.

  103. 103
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @mclaren: I’ve seen the GOP’s obituary a number of times, they’re still here.

  104. 104
    🚸 Martin says:

    Looks to me that the teams are going out of their way to make this qualifying setup look like a failure to the fans. Not that I mind.

  105. 105
    mclaren says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    I’ve seen what happens when a Presidential candidate says he’s going to raise people’s taxes. It wasn’t pretty.

    And I’ve seen what happens post-Iraq-War and post-2009-economic-crash when a Presidential candidate tried to run as a Republican lite. It was even less pretty.

    The times, they have changed.

  106. 106
    Kropadope says:

    @mclaren:

    These long-time political whores and hacks, who eagerly denied global warming and French-kissed Dubya’s bunghole through the entire Iraq debacle, are now leaping from their sinking Republican party like rats with their tails on fire.

    Well, that’s vivid. And I refuse to put names or faces to it due to the middle part, lest I too become celibate.

  107. 107
    mclaren says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    I’ve seen the GOP’s obituary a number of times, they’re still here.

    Sure, it’s just sleeping.

    Oh, look! Now you’ve stunned it!

  108. 108
    🚸 Martin says:

    I didn’t realize that if Lewis could rack up a perfect qualifying season (won’t happen), he’d pass Schumi for poles. Didn’t realize he was that close.

  109. 109
    Mike J says:

    @🚸 Martin: I wonder if we’ll be back to the old stylee for Bahrain. When Ferrari pulled out, that was the end of the drama. Four or five minutes left and nobody on the track.

    It still beats Bernie’s idea of a time penalty for winning, i.e, start at the back if you win a race. Thank god that that went nowhere.

  110. 110
    opiejeanne says:

    @Mike J: Heh heh.
    I was getting some grief from a Bernie fan earlier and after he calmed down and apologized for being a bit of a shit to me, he told me to remember to caucus on the 26th, for all the good it would do Hillary since King county is 90% for Bernie. This startled me since not even 538 will say anything about Washington state as a whole, so I asked where he got his numbers and he said that he had canvassed in Fremont and that was his observation, that King County was 90% Bernie’s.
    I did not laugh where he could see me, I was polite, but regardless of how the vote goes that was such a hilarious extrapolation. I wonder if he canvassed more than 20-30 people. (Canvassing is hard if you go door to door, and I can’t do it any more, not even by phone.)

  111. 111
    Mike J says:

    In the press conference, Nico looks like he was served a boiled rat.

  112. 112
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Mike J:
    Bernie’s like, what, 90? He’s been running Formula 1 for decades. He should have quit long ago.

  113. 113
    🚸 Martin says:

    @Mike J:

    It still beats Bernie’s idea of a time penalty for winning, i.e, start at the back if you win a race. Thank god that that went nowhere.

    Yeah, the world champion would be the driver who arranged to come in 2nd every race. I could see these intense finish line braking contests to avoid crossing first.

  114. 114
    Keith G says:

    Wow, a Burnie v Hillary discussion without insults – most usually emanating from my fellow Hillary supporters. I guess the children must be in bed.

  115. 115
    Kropadope says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    I’ve seen what happens when a Presidential candidate says he’s going to raise people’s taxes. It wasn’t pretty.

    Right, I was one. Remember it like it was yesterday. As I found out recently, being one of the oldest of the millennials, when I think about Reagan, what I see is “when it all went wrong, like really.” The Reagan Administration set a stage that captivated the world so thoroughly from Reagan to Bush Jr. that even the outlier Democratic presidency was dominated by Republican friendly themes. The era of big government being over and whatnot.

    Come to think of it, I think it dates back to Nixon because the strawmen Republicans love so much about indigent welfare mooches or modeled on LBJ’s great society, which I have no doubt Nixon instilled the idea in a healthy portion of people for life before Reagan truly sold it about government programs lulling people into complacency. They owe a shoutout to the Confederacy and Jim Crowe before them.

  116. 116
    Mike J says:

    @opiejeanne: Yeah, FremontKing County. To be fair, King County is going to be Bernie’s stronghold. It will be interesting. More white college educated in King than elsewhere, but more black people in King than elsewhere. Clinton should take most of the state (although Whitman with WSU could be bad for her), but King is so much bigger that it could swamp other results.

    I would like to see Clinton win, and I’ll be arguing for her and doing what I can to get our delegates in, but we’ll just have to see how it goes.

  117. 117
    Kropadope says:

    @mclaren:

    Trump is an imaginary number.

    Time to square him, cuz Trump needs to get real /guffaw. IF Trump gets elected, bets on him winding up quartered by the Full Congress.

  118. 118
    Mike J says:

    @Mike J: (That should say Freemont not equal King County, but I used less than greater than instead of !=, and the html lookalike got swallowed.)

  119. 119
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Mike J: OK, had to look at teh Google Maps to remember where Freemont is.

  120. 120
    mclaren says:

    I wish someone like Eugene Debs or Victoria Woodhull was running for president today. That’s what we need, a socialist illegally convicted of sedition and stripped of his citizenship for opposing WW I who ran for president from his prison cell — and the official campaign photo of Debs featured him in prison stripes.

    Woodhull often spoke about sex on the lecture circuit, saying, among other things, that women should have the right to escape bad marriages and control their own bodies. Even more shocking to Victorian sensibilities, she espoused free love. “I want the love of you all, promiscuously,” she once declared. “It makes no difference who or what you are, old or young, black or white, pagan, Jew, or Christian, I want to love you all and be loved by you all, and I mean to have your love.” Woodhull practiced what she preached, at one point living with her ex-husband, her husband and her lover in the same apartment.

    Source: Wikipedia article “Victoria Woodhull.”

  121. 121

    @Amir Khalid: Why is Sanders sposedly “more electable” than Hillary even though she has more votes you ask? Well, i think the argument is because Sanders has the white men voting for him, he is more electable against the Donald While Hillary has only the women and the hyphenated Americans voting for her and those votes aren’t as important. And if you think this is both mysognist AND racist, you’re right!

  122. 122

    @Amir Khalid: Why is Sanders sposedly “more electable” than Hillary even though she has more votes you ask? Well, i think the argument is because Sanders has the white men voting for him, he is more electable against the Donald While Hillary has only the women and the hyphenated Americans voting for her and those votes aren’t as important. And if you think this is both mysognist AND racist, you’re right!

  123. 123

    @Amir Khalid: Why is Sanders sposedly “more electable” than Hillary even though she has more votes you ask? Well, i think the argument is because Sanders has the white men voting for him, he is more electable against the Donald While Hillary has only the women and the hyphenated Americans voting for her and those votes aren’t as important. And if you think this is both mysognist AND racist, you’re right!

  124. 124

    @Amir Khalid: Why is Sanders sposedly “more electable” than Hillary even though she has more votes you ask? Well, i think the argument is because Sanders has the white men voting for him, he is more electable against the Donald While Hillary has only the women and the hyphenated Americans voting for her and those votes aren’t as important. And if you think this is both mysognist AND racist, you’re right!

  125. 125

    @Amir Khalid: Why is Sanders sposedly “more electable” than Hillary even though she has more votes you ask? Well, i think the argument is because Sanders has the white men voting for him, he is more electable against the Donald While Hillary has only the women and the hyphenated Americans voting for her and those votes aren’t as important. And if you think this is both mysognist AND racist, you’re right!

  126. 126

    Apologies for the duplicate posts, and I can’t seem to edit them now either to get rid of them!

  127. 127
    Kropadope says:

    @Cathie from Canada: Quintuplicate?

  128. 128
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Cathie from Canada:
    This time last month there were people citing polls that said the Marcobot would defeat Hillary in November, that Trump would defeat her, that Cruz would defeat her; whereas Bernie would trounce all three, and therefore he should be the Democratic nominee. But I’ve always maintained that the most important thing is who is the more likely to be an able and effective President; on that score, I rate Bernie higher than any Republican candidate, but I rate Hillary higher than Bernie.

    I think that had she been the nominee in 2008, Hillary would have out-campaigned John McCain and defeated him. And that she can do the same to any Republican candidate in this cycle — of the two still in serious contention, one clearly knows fuck-all about the job and the other is the biggest jackhole in DC.

  129. 129
    akryan says:

    So how about that NCAA wrestling tournament? Penn State is nuts good. I haven’t seen this kind of year to year dominance since Iowa in the 80’s. They’re not there (I don’t think anyone ever will be again) but Cael Sanderson has put together as dominant a program together that I think we’ll ever see again.

  130. 130
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Amir Khalid: Also, I think what is lost on the favorable/unfavorable stat is that it can change and change very quickly. Sec. Clinton, as Sec of State had a very high favorable/unfavorable stat, that changed when she started running for President and more questions were raised by Republicans and the press. As I hinted at in previous comments, Bernie hasn’t faced this yet and would get similar treatment if he was the presumptive nominee. It would start with his policy proposals(he’s a Socialist(true), he’d raise everybody’s taxes to 90%(untrue, but they’d still say it)) and move on to personal attacks. This is what they always do.

  131. 131
    Joel says:

    @Kropadope: I am, by definition, either the oldest of the millenials or the youngest of generation X, and my only living memories of Reagan’s presidency are Woodsy Owl and “Just Say No”.

  132. 132
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Amir Khalid: I think what Devine is imagining here is a situation in which Hillary Clinton’s support among the Democratic rank and file completely collapses between now and the convention. So Clinton may still have a majority of pledged delegates because of her earlier wins, but Sanders has swept all the late primaries, the earlier voters are having regrets, and Democratic voters mostly agree that Bernie Sanders is the one they really want.

    The most faithful of the Sanders faithful are currently convincing themselves that this is in the process of happening, even after last Tuesday. Or that it’s just about to happen.

  133. 133
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Kropadope:

    Come to think of it, I think it dates back to Nixon because the strawmen Republicans love so much about indigent welfare mooches or modeled on LBJ’s great society, which I have no doubt Nixon instilled the idea in a healthy portion of people for life before Reagan truly sold it about government programs lulling people into complacency. They owe a shoutout to the Confederacy and Jim Crowe before them.

    We talk a lot about Nixon’s Southern Strategy (which was, in turn, probably inspired by Goldwater’s opposition to the CRA, and the fact that even while getting crushed in a landslide he took Strom Thurmond’s old Dixiecrat territory).

    But I think the other half of why Reaganism did so well when it did was that liberals had been made automatically suspicious of Big Government by the Vietnam War and the crimes of Nixon. There simply wasn’t anyone after about 1974 who, when you made a wisecrack about the government being a bunch of evil or incompetent bastards, would vehemently disagree. The difference between conservatives and liberals was just in what specifically they mistrusted about government (taxmen and welfare programs vs. cops, spies and warmongers), and if you kept your rhetoric broad and vague enough, that wouldn’t matter.

    Jimmy Carter had taken the reformist path: I’m never going to lie to you, I’m going to make it so government is trustworthy. But he’d been unsuccessful enough as a President that people were ready for someone who was promising he’d burn it all down, even if that didn’t actually make any sense in the details.

  134. 134
    Temporarily Max McGee (Soon Enough to Be Andy K Again) says:

    @Joel:

    Woodsy Owl dates back to 1971, when even Nixon was (or did a good job pretending to be) a conservationist. Woodsy was the Smokey the Bear for us old Gen Xers.

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