You know what also struck me about Maddow’s timeline clips? The longer he’s on the trail, the hoarser and puffier and more exhausted Trump looks. For all his braggadocio, Trump doesn’t look like a well man.
For further discussion:
I know it wasn't by design, but well meaning people have given Trump the perfect narrative, walked into his trap. Now he gets to play victim
— AlGiordano (@AlGiordano) March 12, 2016
Shutting down a rally is the weakest, most soft of fake "victories" when it also ups Trump's ratings. His ratings give him all his power.
— AlGiordano (@AlGiordano) March 12, 2016
The only way to destroy Trump's power – and it IS power – is to destroy his news ratings. Only way to do that is to put on a better show.
— AlGiordano (@AlGiordano) March 12, 2016
Starfish
Is there a big empty spot at the top of this post for anyone else?
Keith P.
Glad I’m not the only one who thinks Trump looks unwell, in spite of what his North Korean (?) doctor claims. Just discounting the orange pancake and bizarre hair, the neck waddle is the biggest tell, along with him and his kids saying his diet is “steaks, potatoes, whatever I want”. Gravity does not support Donald Trump.
This is a man who is going to abruptly drop dead of a massive heart attack with no warning, and unfortunately, his supporters are so crazy that the dominant theory will be that Obama got the CIA to poison the “spring” where Trump Water is collected.
Amir Khalid
@Starfish:
I think there’s supposed to be something there that isn’t showing up for us.
Davebo
Hey, I offered to help. WP is pretty easy to work with if you aren’t an amateur.
satby
@Keith P.: Yeah, that will be the conspiracy theory that will really take off.
Betty Cracker
@Starfish: I’m seeing a big space too. From context I assume it’s a Maddow clip. In my experience, MSNBC clips are frequently FUBAR, which is a shame because Maddow often has segments worth passing along. The MSNBC site is a hot mess.
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
@Davebo:
Yeah, and everyone wants help from someone who insults them
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
I always loved this:
When Meyer Lansky and the Jewish elements of the mob decisively addressed nascent American Nazi rallies
This is the quintessential American story, how these guys who clearly weren’t a product of the day schools or Yeshivas did the dirty work that needed doing.
Betty Cracker
Not so sure Giordano is right about the rally. If the people of Chicago want to make a statement that brown shirt gatherings aren’t welcome in their city, I don’t blame them. And if Trump casts himself as the victim, I’m not so sure that’s a plus for him. Bullies get their power from dominating others, not whining about having been dominated.
Germy
The indomitable Chauncey Devega attended, and filed this report:
http://www.chaunceydevega.com/2016/03/trumpmania-doesnt-make-stop-in-chicago.html
Eric S.
As soon as the bigots that worship him were going to be outnumbered Drumph ran for the hills. He’s not even a bully, he’s the coward egging on the bully.
Danton
I’d like to see a Chaplin-esque protest at a Trump rally. Thousands of people outside with fake Hitler moustaches raising their arms and yelling “Sieg Heil, mein Drumpf” amidst a few, sprinkled in the crowd, holding signs that read “NOTsies FOR DONALD.”
Starfish
@Amir Khalid and @Betty Cracker: Strangely, the clip is showing up on feedly. It is this.
cmorenc
@Starfish:
What hump?
hamletta
Here’s a link to the Maddow segment.
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
@cmorenc:
See, its post like this one that cry out of a ‘like’ button!
Mai.naem.mobile
I was talking to my sister about the Trump Chicago issue. Her theory is that the GOP created the protest so as to 1/scare Trump out of the race 2/Create sympathy 3/Create anger towards blahs,PBO etc.4/Create further discord in a Dem city which has Rahm & history with Daley.
Marc McKenzie
Al Giordano nailed it.
Jordan Rules
The Maddow vid is showing fine for me.
I don’t agree with Al on this one.
Chip Daniels
Yesterday one commenter sarcastically asked when the rightwing would begin to blame Bill Ayers for the cancelled rally…Today Jim Hoft is on the case.
Jesus, man, that Poe’s Law…
Davebo
@Schlemazel (parmesan rancor):
Results count. Everything else is bullshit. A simple concept that’s kept me in business for 20 years.
Anya
Giordano’s political analysis is usually spot on but this time he’s off the mark. Trump gets ratings because he’s an outrageous clown & the media enables him because his clown act gets ratings. And because of that his supporters are drawn to him. He’s the biggested and loudest asshole buffoon clown in a field populated by assholes. Chicago’s little act of defiance might get Trump more ratings and make his hardliner supporters even more hardliners but it’s terrible for the general. In the upcoming ralies hsi supporters will be even more racists. And every reasonable and semi-reasonable republican will be horrified. This will show the nation the cost of the clown car.
The Thin Black Duke
Who cares what Trump supporters think? It wasnn’t as though they were going to vote for a Democrat any damned way, y’know?
dr. bloor
@cmorenc: Very well played.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Betty Cracker:
I think this is right – Chicago basically said get the fuck out of here with this shit. Trump could have broadcasted from his jet at the airport if he’d wanted to, but he’s a buffoon who’s riding a wave that’s going to deposit him in a place he’s going to regret.
Gimlet
How can they do this, it’s fraud.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/mar/12/georgia-bill-pregnant-women-fake-abortion-clinics
Georgia lawmakers have approved state funding of up to $2m for unlicensed crisis pregnancy centers, dubbed “fake abortion clinics” by some advocates.
Crisis pregnancy centers (CPCs) are non-medical facilities that seek to counsel women out of having abortions. Many of these clinics have confusing names and advertising that suggest they provide abortion services, and others provide misleading medical information to discourage women from having abortions.
Often counselors will tell women that condoms are ineffective, that they will be unable to get pregnant again if they have an abortion, and that abortion and birth control cause cancer. There are more than 4,000 CPCs in the US and at least 12 states fund CPCs directly.
The Ancient Randonneur
Shorter Al: Hey Muslims, Latinos and African Americans it’s always best to listen to the advice of a Causcasian Male Liberal and take your cues from him as to when protests are most effective and appropriate.
Anya
@Betty Cracker: I totally agree with you. Trump regularly mocks Sanders for letting BLM protestors take over his rally. He always promises that will never happen in his rallies but this time, protestors infiltrated one of his rallies and he was too afraid to even show up. In the past he even threatened future protestors:
Who is weak now?
Shalimar
@Davebo: Just because you don’t hear again from all the people alienated because you’re an asshole to them doesn’t mean they aren’t costing you money.
A store I worked at long ago had a huge increase in traffic after the long-time manager retired. He was very smart and very good at his job, but also a condescending jerk on frequent occasions. One person after another said during the weeks after he left, “I can shop here again now that the asshole isn’t here anymore. I have told all my friends he is gone.”
rk
Don’t know who Al Giordano is except he’s quoted here all the time. I disagree with analysis. In case he hasn’t noticed, Trump’s on TV 24/7. There’s no way ordinary people have to “destroy his ratings” (wonder if he has any suggestions on how exactly anyone/organization is to do that). Point out his lies: doesn’t work, criticize him: nah, no effect on his factually challenged followers.
The media is fawning all over him. At least this protest shows that there are lots and lots of people willing to pushback on his BS. The people are doing the media’s job here. It was up to the media to stop his worthless BS by putting an editorial comment everytime he opens his worthless mouth.
Oatler.
Maddow should quit MSNBC now if she has any pride. For now she’s happy on the Trump Channel. Notice how Chuck Todd leans away from her and talks down his nose when addressing her (or anyone who’s not on board with Donald)?
Betty Cracker
@The Ancient Randonneur: I think Giordano is wrong too, but that’s not a fair “shorter.”
scav
Of course there will be loads about the “real” Americans being oppressed and unable to express their ‘real” amger (eliding their violence which is, of course’ nevertheless justified and righteous) while tut-tutting all the “thugs” because the latter aren’t real Americans (no matter how many of them there are) with legitimate grievances or any America of theirs to wish to get back. The increasing bulk of America is not real in their eyes. See also getting shot in the street by LEOs. Or who was left to die of AIDS. Or the sudden interest in drug treatment instead of immediate and lengthy incarceration. The process has been played out before. No way through it except through the mess.
Fair Economist
I think Al is wrong and Betty is right. Bullies don’t get mileage out of claiming people are mean to them. Plus, Trump is over the edge into frank Fascism now, calling to suppress reporters, extort money from foreign countries, beat up counter-protesters, lying to cover up his own follower’s assaults, and ethnically cleanse the nation. It’s not a game anymore; this is the real deal. This isn’t even the soft neofacism of voter suppression and media manipulation we’ve been seeing lately with Hungary and, yes, the Republican party. This is the really hard nasty version.
This is not something you let go; you have to fight it with any means possible.
To some extent there’s a problem with the media trying to present Trump’s supporters as the good guys, but that’s a media problem, not a reality problem.
SiubhanDuinne
@Starfish:
@Amir Khalid:
I’m not seeing any kind of image either.
WaterGirl
@Mai.naem.mobile: I can’t say that I agree. I am on a mailing list for UIC. Students were up in arms (not literally) that Trump had been allowed to use their forum. There was message after message to faculty and students about how this didn’t mean UIC supported Trump, etc. I don’t know how it escalated after that, but I don’t believe this was organized by any republicans. I believe it was UIC students and faculty just saying “NO” to trump.
Ready
Time to tally round Ted Cruz and back him to the hilt at the convention, outside thugs will not hijack movement conservatism and the Republican Party.
Cruz is a fighter and will not back down.
#CruzToTheFuture
#FloorFight
Amir Khalid
@Ready:
A thug has already hijacked conservatism and the Republican party. The thug’s name is Donald Trump. You just want to substitute a different thug.
The Ancient Randonneur
@Betty Cracker: I disagree. As a Casucasian male myself I find it less than helpful for Causian males of all political stripes to hand out advice to people involved in direct political protest. Maybe it’s time for us to listen and learn. We’ve had our turn.
I would like to know why you think I’m not being fair.
Johnny Screwface
@Schlemazel (parmesan rancor): https://balloon-juice.com/2016/01/22/snowy-site-maintenance-update/
Alain: I am not a programmer. From this admission, the outcomes have some predictability.
Ultraviolet Thunder
I kind of feel like we’re at a unique point in our history with this Trump freakshow and it’s fascinating to watch. At least I hope it’s unique. I’m doing what I can against him as an individual of course. But I just sit back sometimes and marvel.
Anyone who has ever spun a car out at speed on an icy road knows the feeling.
JPL
Trump thinks the Chinese government showed strength during the Tiananmen Square massacre. He’s insane.
Gin & Tonic
@Ready: Brink’s trucks?
Chyron HR
@Ready:
Will the #FloorFight be open carry? Please say yes.
JPL
@Ready: You must be wealthy, because his tax plan screws everyone else.
danielx
@Starfish:
I blame Obama.
WaterGirl
@JPL: And “The Chinese” love Trump, am I right?
WaterGirl
@Gin & Tonic: Yes! Full of cash! VICTORY!!!!
Baud
Why do liberals never talk about GOTV when talking about how to defeat the right?
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
@Davebo:
condescension is also much appreciated, IIRC you are good at that also.
Davebo
@Shalimar:
Luckily I don’t sell condoms and beer.
John does a great service with this site but the band aids that have been applied are not part of the problem, they are the problem. WP isn’t the problem. It’s solid. But after you tack on a ton of conflicting extensions conflicts occur. That, IMO, is what’s happened here.
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
@Oatler.:
better to light one tiny candle than curse the darkness?
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
@Fair Economist:
It seems to me Drump’s numbers have gone up when he plays the victim so if the textbook says that shouldn’t happen which one is wrong?
Davebo
@Schlemazel (parmesan rancor):
Where you found condescension in that comment is beyond my meager ability to recognize.
Must be my problem.
RandomMonster
The right-wing narrative, already forming I guarantee you, will be that the protests are a typical left-wing tactic designed to prevent free speech. Wingnuts will do anything to feed their persecution fantasies, they’re the myth that gives structure to their entire worldview.
Baud
He did seem tired at the last debate.
A Ghost To Most
@Ready:
So Ted is paying your salary this week? We’re getting whiplash watching you flail around.
Chyron HR
@Baud:
“Tired? Trump? TIRED?!”
Face the facts, the rainbow’s started to fade…
Davebo
@Baud:
He’s got more energy than Gentle Ben had though that’s setting a low bar. I still maintain that Trump has no chance, and no desire, to win a general election.
Baud
And MSNBC is showing a Trump rally live right now. Because of course.
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
@The Ancient Randonneur:
I think it is perfectly fair to posit that Drumpf benefits from the disruption yesterday as he has from smaller scale ones he has had up till now. That is separate from any suggestion the protesters should have not gone or should have done anything different – something I am not about to do. People have to do what they think is right. I wish they had not done what they did but that is irrelevant because there is no reason they should abide my wishes. How this all plays out remains to be seen, I will not feel guilt for saying “I really wish you had gone about this differently” because that is as fair a thing to believe as what the protesters believed when they went.
Baud
@Chyron HR:
He seems energetic at the really that MSNBC is showing live right now.
Baud
@Davebo:
Ben is naturally low key.
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
@Johnny Screwface:
And from attitude many things are predictable also. My comment was not on the quality of service offered by the tone in which it was offered.
Chyron HR
@Baud:
Well, some kind of coming-home-in-triumph is required.
Brachiator
Don’t know if Maddow mentioned this, but other reporters have noted that Trump gives a lot of phone interviews. The tv news shows don’t mind because any type of Trump appearance gets ratings. He may be using the down time to get refreshed and refilled, and also to have his hair managed for his next public appearance.
He may be able to skate on showing his taxes, but if he is somehow elected president, he will have to have a presidential physical. It would be hard to stifle information on something serious.
JPL
@Baud: I’ve been listening to him. MSNBC want to show the riots when they occur. Then Trump can blame Obama for not being as tough as the Chinese.
mouse tolliver
Trump was just on MSNBC giving a rambling speech where he’s talking about bombing the oil fields. He criticized the military for being overly PC for not blowing up oil fields. A President Trump with set the oil fields on fire just like Saddam. Psychotic.
Kay
@Baud:
Why doesn’t someone other than liberals go to the place where liberals have provided 300 activists who are angry enough to get off their ass and talk to them about GOTV?
They can’t vote against Trump, yet. There’s no “ballot box” remedy available to them at this stage of the game, but there will be. They have essentially handed Clinton or Sanders a group of people to try to organize. That’s the hard part- finding the people who are wiling to do something. That part is done.
Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
@Davebo:
I am a techie & work in a technical environment so I am not surprised. I know it is hard but try reading everything posted about the site issues from the viewpoint of people doing their best and try to listen to it in a voice other than your own. You may not have meant to but I picked it up & I don’t have a dog in that fight
elm
@Schlemazel (parmesan rancor): At what point would you approve of them protesting a threat to their well-being?
Trump has stated his intent clearly. His followers know and like the hate he stands for. The media has totally failed.
Baud
@Kay:
Someone should organize those folks. They can’t vote yet, buy there is more leg work that can be done.
My criticism was directed at Al. Not the protestors.
Brachiator
@Marc McKenzie:
Nah. He’s a pearl clutching fool.
Peale
@elm: yep. It’s not like people weren’t assuring them that if they were patient. Trump would just get bored, or quit, or that the big boys of the party would reassert control. It’s getting late in the game for people to just count on patience and a hope that it will just work out.
Matt McIrvin
@Schlemazel (parmesan rancor): Trump’s favorable/unfavorable and head-to-head vs. Clinton have both been dropping lately. He’s still rising in the primary polls as other candidates drop out, but right now Cruz and Kasich are actually gaining faster. Probably not enough to stop him from getting nominated, but I think the general-election opposition to him is hardening.
Davebo
@Schlemazel (parmesan rancor):
Doing your best is great if you are volunteering. But when checks are being written in my experience doing your best doesn’t cut it.
That’s all I’m saying. I’ve reviewed the site in Safari, Chrome, Firefox and IE. And frankly, it’s, to use the phrase popular these days, a dumpster fire.
The biggest problems are with attempts to generate ad revenue which I support but are horrifically implemented and in the end are costing John money.
Elizabelle
CNN discussing Trump, but cut away from him. Not surprised MS — all Trump all the time! — NBC is broadcasting live.
Heard a little of his press conference. He is well over the line into demagogue. I’d initially thought he was a narcissist buffoon who fed off his supporters’ worldview and anger. But he is obviously feeding them as well.
And I am beyond sick of hearing him running Obama down as a failure.
Although, other people will hear that and be fired up to vote against Trump and the GOP. They’re nutz.
PS: listening to WaPost live feed. Trump just said Bill Ayers probably wrote Obama’s first book, “the only one that was really good.” Uh huh.
“Kasich is a baby. He can’t be president. … The fact that he approved NAFTA. The fact that he was with Lehman Brothers…”
“I’m gonna bring jobs back to this country. You won’t believe it. We’re gonna be winning again.”
“Trade deals — they need us more than we need them.”
MomSense
Of course my heart is with the protesters and if we had a functioning media so would public opinion. The media are already “reporting” that Trump canceled because of safety concerns as if the concerns were legitimate.
Thinking people may get that the only legitimate safety concerns are about the thugs who support Trump and attend his rallies. That’s not how this will be understood by the general population.
We have to switch up our tactics to counter media stupidity. Springtime for Hitler flash mobs?
Calouste
@Oatler.: Maddow didn’t quit MSNBC when they had Nazi-apologist Pat Buchanan on all the time, so I doubt she has much pride in that regard.
elm
@Peale: Maybe a (politely phrased) note while they’re being deported or rounded up would be acceptable for white middle-class liberals.
O. Felix Culpa
Hmmm…I just saw an online op-ed by someone I never heard of (Damon Linker?) which suggests that Clinton take Elizabeth Warren as running mate now to assure greater populist cred, wrap up the primaries, and get the Sanders voters in the GE. Thoughts on that strategy?
ETA: Sorry for lack of linky. Don’t know how to do that on my phone. I plead hapless decrepitude.
Joyce H
Trump ‘gets’ to play victim? Well, sure, he can if he wants to, but he’s dumping all over his ‘brand’. Winners aren’t victims. Victims aren’t winners. If Trump is a victim, who wants him as president? Victim-president means there won’t be so much winning your head will spin.
Elizabelle
FoxNews seems to have Trump muted; split screen, but appears Cavuto (?) is talking to some talking head about violence at Trump rallies.
MSNBC should be ashamed of itself. They’re a huge enabler.
Brachiator
@JPL:
The Chinese government broke the democracy movement, threw its leaders into dungeons, continued to have diplomatic relations with the West and expanded trade relations.
You can rightly disapprove of what was done. You cannot deny that it was a show of strength.
Baud
@O. Felix Culpa: I want her to stay in the Senate.
hamletta
@O. Felix Culpa: Oh, give it a rest. Elizabeth Warren is a good Senator. I really don’t think she’s interested in executive office. She can stay in the Senate, fighting the good fight as long as she can fog a mirror.
Matt McIrvin
@O. Felix Culpa: I really would not like to have yet another of my Senators yanked away to a job where she would probably have less influence than she does now.
RandomMonster
The right-wing media (even those that don’t support Trump) will use this to feed their own conspiracy theories and persecution fantasies. I just read a post at Red(Meat)State that at first blames Trump for creating an atmosphere of violence at his rallies with his tough guy fascist talk, but then hilariously ends the piece with this:
This is the talking point they will pursue, because the “embattled conservative” is central to the myth.
Elizabelle
@Baud: Agreed that Elizabeth Warren is great in the Senate, but if she is what it takes to drag Hillary over the finish line, that’s more important. Winning the presidency is everything.
ETA: This is such an atypical year. And we’ve got a dysfunctional press, where it’s not purposely obtuse. Elizabeth Warren connects with average Americans’ concerns in a way that neither HRC nor Sanders can do, and she’s fresh.
msdc
@The Ancient Randonneur: I can’t speak for Betty, but I think you aren’t being fair because this bullshit is literally the opposite of what he’s been saying this entire primary season.
I don’t entirely buy Giordano’s analysis – I think Trump has pissed off too many people and left too much of a video trail to play the victim here – but Al’s a seasoned organizer and he gets to have an opinion on organizing tactics whether guilty white progressives approve of it or not.
JMG
@Baud: Why leave a job with real power and ever more influence for a job with neither? Warren wasn’t interested in running for President, why would she want to be Vice-President?
Baud
@Elizabelle:
Of course. If she were indispensable to a victory, that would be a different matter.
Ready
Cruz is the only one left who can mathematically dreamt Trunp so all the big donors are slow put surely lining up behind him, including Ricketts Family, Singer and the Hedge Fund Boys, blanketing Florida and Ohio as we speak.
Weaselone
Al might be ultimately be correct, but only because that is how the media will permit this event to be spun. Trump, not the protesters shut down his rally. Al’s basically saying that those opposed to Trump should be silent because ratings. Of course, there is no guarantee that silence will destroy his ratings and there is a well documented danger to remaining silent in the face of movement’s of this nature.
Baud
@JMG: I don’t think she would want it unless it was necessary to victory.
Calouste
@Matt McIrvin: I don’t think Cruz is going to win the nomination, because it’s unlikely that he will win the big blue states over either Trump or Kasich. There are just not enough GOP voters that like his brand of Evangelism in those states.
Adam L Silverman
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class: And that’s why we call him The Crime Rabbi. Basically the Jewish American version of the Lord of Strange Deaths.
Chyron HR
@O. Felix Culpa:
Yes, if Clinton announces her running mate before she gets the nomination, it will definitely win over the Sanders supporters who are enraged about about “coronations”.
O. Felix Culpa
@hamletta: I’m not advocating, but inquiring. If strengthening populist credibility for Hillary is viewed as a desirable goal, who would you suggest as a running mate?
Ready
Cruz isn’t a Fascist and doesn’t incite violence. He engages protestors civilly
Adam L Silverman
@Danton: Well this did happen as pictured by a Chicago Tribune photojournalist:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/politics/chi-ct-trump-protest-photo3-20160311-photo.html
https://twitter.com/KnowlesAdkisson/status/708499204054749184
Betty Cracker
@The Ancient Randonneur:Giordano explained his rationale, and while I disagree, it doesn’t remotely resemble your characterization of it. I’ve been reading Giordano for years. He’s a stand-up guy who has done more to amplify the voices of marginalized people than most of us can imagine. His life’s work has been the opposite of “shut up, minorities, and let the white guys handle it.”
dmsilev
@Ready: Have you considered the possibility that your support for a candidate is sufficient to ensure their defeat? Because the correlation is substantial.
Amir Khalid
TIME reports the other Republican candidates have begun rethinking their promises to support presumptive Republican nominee Donald Trump, now that they know about Donald inciting violence from the lectern at his rallies.
WaterGirl
@Baud: Have I ever told you that when I first showed up in Iowa to help the Obama campaign in 2007 before the Iowa caucuses, I could not figure out why “Go TV” was on everything! “What the hell is GO TV?”, I was wondering, but thank god I figured it out before I made a total fool out of myself.
Needless to say, Obama was my first real involvement in a campaign.
Frankensteinbeck
I can see Trump planning ahead of time that if a really big protest happens, he’ll cancel his rally. It tells his supporters that the race war is happening, that an army of blacks (never mind the actual mixed colors of the protestors) are rising up to violently overthrow the will of the American People (you know, white hillbillies). I can even see him scheduling rallies in risky places once he figured that out. Hey, why not? I’m not sure if it’s a good plan. Conservatives abandon leaders who look weak. They have weird standards about what looks weak, so maybe Trump knows how that will play better than I do.
(Disclaimer: I have lived half my life in Kentucky and another quarter in South Carolina. Nobody give me shit about ‘white hillbillies’, because I lived among them and I know exactly what I’m talking about.)
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Amir Khalid: as an amateur political strategist from a blog comment section, I say run those ads tying Ayotte, McCain and Toomey (?) to Trump now. Get the stink on them before they can media-plausibly deny it.
Davebo
@Adam L Silverman:
Obviously she was just pointing out a comet passing overhead!
When you realize astronomy, like all science, is just a myth everything becomes possible.
JPL
@Amir Khalid: haha.. They knew all along, but now realize that it might benefit them, if they step aside.
hamletta
@Frankensteinbeck: One of the Chicago reporters Maddow talked to last night suggested as much. She said Republican rallies are normally held in the (white) suburbs, and the location struck her as odd the minute it was announced.
Elizabelle
Caught a little footage of Trump rally, in front of his airplane, on grainy WaPost feed.
He looks like something out of Beavis and Butthead. Hard to believe that’s happening in reality. It’s cartoonish, like a rotoscope.
And, video was so grainy, that the combover made him look like JFK. A red, angry, heavier JFK.
Maybe that’s the effect Trump was going for. I would not be surprised if JFK and JFK cool was one of his icons, growing up. Kay and others have noted that his advertising is of another time.
WaterGirl
@Elizabelle: MSNBC has no shame. They have ruined the brand they had.
Baud
@WaterGirl:
I’m not the volunteer you are. But 2008 was when I first learned about GOTV as well.
Betty Cracker
@Weaselone: This. Trumpism is well past the “ignore it and it will go away” stage. As sickening as it is to watch, I’m glad to see it splashed all over the media.
Chyron HR
@Ready:
So you’re saying the reason Trump is beating Cruz is because Republican voters want a “Fascist” candidate who “incite[s] violence”? That’s very interesting.
Adam L Silverman
@O. Felix Culpa: Terrible idea. Senator Warren is currently properly situated and positioned to do the most good. Removing her from the Senate would be a terrible mistake. Especially into the position of Vice President, which despite some mission creep over the years, is basically about doing nothing until someone important has to go to a funeral, a tie needs to be broken in the Senate, or the President is incapacitated.
WaterGirl
@Adam L Silverman: Holy shit! That woman knew exactly what she was doing with that raise of her arm. That was no “oh, I was just raising my hand in support”. Wow.
“Out and proud” used to mean something entirely different.
Elizabelle
@WaterGirl: First of all, thank you, thank you, thank you for all that you did in Iowa 2008!
Second: re MSNBC: people should turn that fucking channel off and blog/twitter about it online.
Who wants soup that’s been pissed in, and worse?
O. Felix Culpa
@Baud: My first campaign as a volunteer was 1968 (I was a mere slip of a thing and many years away from being able to vote).They hadn’t invented that acronym yet.
Brachiator
@O. Felix Culpa:
I think that pundit Dana Milbank recently insisted that Clinton must make Warren her VP pick.
I’m not sure that Warren guarantees many votes overall, though she would bring some of the Sandersnistas. I also think that she would be more effective in the Senate than as VP. And I do not think she is, for now, presidential material.
scav
@srv: You may personally be rooting for actual violence — it certainly comes via mess and a general tut-tuttery and accusations of “You Illegitmate Uncouth Violent Brutes!” from the institutionalized mouthpieces of the comfortable — and physical mouthpieces of those invested in the cozy narrative / mythos.
Baud
@O. Felix Culpa:
And we got Nixon!
WaterGirl
@Amir Khalid:
TIME reports the other Republican candidates have begun rethinking their promises to support presumptive Republican nominee Donald Trump, now that they have an excuse and think it will help their election chances.
Fixed that for you.
Adam L Silverman
@Davebo: I thought she was asking if anyone had seen Kyle?
Peale
@JPL: yep. I am torn here. I really want things to settle down and trump to be booted. But I don’t want Ready and the Billionaires and other losers like Cruz to do it. It’s going to be frightening for a lot of people, and the longer this goes, the longer people have to put up with it. But I’m not really prepared to make nice with Cruz for the good of the country. Cause I know he’ll demand gratitude and to be treated like a hero when he most certainly was one of the key players in this mess.
sdhays
I think Mr. Giordano is confused. Right now, Trump’s main goal is to win the Republican Primary. As a liberal, I don’t give a shit if this helps him accomplish that goal. If the 2016 Republican Party wants to run on racism and fascism, LET THEM. It’s true that confrontation with “hippie” college student protestors in Chicago may help him power through to the nomination (I don’t think he needs the help, quite frankly), but it doesn’t help him unite the Republican Party behind him and reassure those currently opposed to him that he’s not a disaster.
I think this is one of the ways Trump gets stopped. Up until now, he has been able to bully protestors with violence and numbers; we now know that if the protest is large enough and risks violence, Trump will tuck his tail and go hide under the bed. Large scale protests of Trump signal a backlash, even if they are hippy college students in “Obama’s Chicago”. It demonstrates to other Republican officials the danger of running on Trump’s ticket and constantly reminds the Republican voters not sold on Trump so far of his ugliness. The tensions will play out in the Republican coalition and will dampen support in November. If non-white Americans vote for the Democratic nominee in greater numbers than 2012 and Republican core turnout is at least somewhat depressed, even the extra white supremacist trash that Trump is activating won’t be able to stave off a Democratic landslide.
Note, I’m not predicting a landslide. I’m just saying that it’s definitely possible this year, and protests like this one will be part of the recipe to make it happen. Getting Trump to shut up is no small thing. The protestors are inspiring.
Adam L Silverman
@WaterGirl: My favorite are the folks on social media, like in that twitter feed I linked to, trying to indicate she’s a democrat who is doing organizing work for Bernie Sanders despite the Chicago Tribune identifying her name, where she’s from, and who she’s supporting.
WaterGirl
@Baud: I feel better knowing that I am in such good company!
O. Felix Culpa
@Baud: QED.
The Sheriff Endorses Baud 2016
So, um, Al? How do you put on a better show? News channels are going 24/7 Trump for a reason, and its not because they think this is The Apprentice: The Presidential Edition.
This is the apothesis of the clown show we’ve had since last summer. The man is biting the dog. Someone’s going to get hurt. Someone might even die. If it bleeds, it leads. That’s why we’re where we’re at right now.
So what’s the Democratic response to that? Have Obama break a pool cue in half, give a piece to Clinton and Sanders, and say we’re holding tryouts?
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
Speaking of Al… Twitter.
Of course it will be taken out of context – that’s what Fox and the GOP do. Al’s showing that Ben scored an own goal by allowing himself to express things this way.
(via DemocratMachine on Twitter)
Cheers,
Scott.
Johnny Screwface
@Schlemazel (parmesan rancor): @Schlemazel (parmesan rancor)
You are most certainly right about that (though neither of us are privy to any off-blog communications Davebo might have had with ‘the site fixer’). I guess I’ve just been frustrated for months by the way that the site upgrade has just been the very definition of amateur hour. I mean, right now, if I click on the older posts numbers at the bottom of the page – the “2” for example – I wind up back on the front page.
Sigh…
O. Felix Culpa
@Adam L Silverman: Makes sense. Any thoughts on better options for veep?
scav
@Adam L Silverman: Ah, the collar counties in their full glory.
WaterGirl
@Elizabelle: Thank you very much. I tear up every time I think about that time because I was so full of hope and because our time with Barack as president is nearing an end.
smith
@Adam L Silverman: Not to mention the Trump t shirt she’s wearing.
WaterGirl
@Adam L Silverman: Unbelievable! I suppose they missed the Trump shirt? Reading that, I can say that this is a day I am very glad I don’t follow twitter. The dribs and drabs I get here are enough for me.
Brachiator
@Calouste:
The National Review just endorsed Cruz for president.
I take this as a sign that the GOP establishment has decided that he is their man. BTW, this makes Rubio’s plea that his voters vote for Kasich in Ohio look like a stupid move. Kasich has no chance.
Miss Bianca
@Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class:
I’ve bookmarked that article for future reading. From what I recall, Detroit’s Purple Gang was also Jewish mobsters, involved in bootlegging primarily (Detroit is just across the river from Windsor in Canada, and lots of folks had little boats. The father of one of my best high school buddies was a bootlegger during Prohibition – he was in his 50s when she was born, so he was definitely old enough – and had amazing tales of running thru’ Coast Guard blockades).
The funny thing was, I grew up in one of the snooty suburb of Grosse Pointe, which borders Detroit’s East Side, and just down the street from my house was a house that was rumored to be the Purple Gang’s headquarters. Allegedly, there was a secret tunnel in the basement that led to street level somewhere down the block. Grosse Pointe was notorious for redlining – no blacks, no Jews – so I was always a little skeptical about that story…figured that *if* it was true, the tunnel was to smuggle the Bernstein brothers in and out of Grosse Pointe, rather than booze.
Peale
@O. Felix Culpa: I would have gone with Feingold if he weren’t running for senate. Mothbally pick, but I think there may be some good will tiward him still on the far left.
Adam L Silverman
@O. Felix Culpa: I still think it’ll be Julian Castro who is the HUD Secretary. Several reasons for this: 1) (obviously) the Hispanic and Latino angle, 2) He and his brother are very popular in Texas among the Hispanic and Latino community – this would place some stress on turning out members of those communities there that will make Texas a more competitive race even if it doesn’t actually flip the state purple or into blue territory yet. 3) I cannot imagine Trump picking a VP candidate not on board with his anti illegal immigration rhetoric. It is much harder to spew that crap when seated or standing next to your opponent at the Vice Presidential debate. Unless you’re Governor Palin. She will, apparently, say anything to anyone at any time, anywhere.
Charles Pierce suggested Congressman Elijah Cummings, who would also be excellent:
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a42894/elijah-cummings-vice-president/
Peale
@Brachiator: the ivy leaguers will stick together. They always do in the end.
Adam L Silverman
@smith: And that she doesn’t look anything like the Senator Sanders’ supporter who is being suggested as the Sieg Heiler on social media. Other than that they’re both older white women with white/gray hair.
Adam L Silverman
@WaterGirl: I don’t either, but I know how to use it to collect useful information.
hilts
@Oatler.: @Calouste:@Elizabelle:
MSNBC is an embarrassment well beyond its coverage of Trump.
For years, it has pissed away weekend airtime to garbage programs such as Lockdown and To Catch a Predator.
Chris Matthews’ continued presence on MSNBC is another embarrassment. In one breath, he’s denouncing Trump for peddling birtherism. In the next breath, he’s urging Trump to run tv ads touting his success battling NYC bureaucratic red tape to erect a bunch of skyscrapers.
For years, Matthews has also lied about when he became an opponent of the Iraq war.
WaterGirl
@Johnny Screwface: Believe me, I feel your pain! As an experienced IT person, I was part of the crowd that shouted unacceptable and unprofessional! when the upgrade was first rolled out.
The only thing amateur I have seen from Alain, though, is that he didn’t have the experience when he started to understand that he needed to tell Cole that the parameters and the timeframe that Cole gave for the project were a recipe for failure.
Alain stepped up when things went to hell with Tommy, and Alain is, I believe, not getting much/any more money for all the additional work he took on after Tommy bowed out of the process. Not to mention that this kind of coding isn’t really in Alain’s area of expertise – but he felt an obligation not to just leave the whole thing in a lurch and walk away when everything went to hell.
Alain now has a more experienced WP person on board, and who knows whether Cole is paying for that or if Alain is. But they are now trying to do the project right – I believe they may be building the site from scratch and they are most certainly documenting what they are doing. All for the same amount of money, I think, as the quick & dirty upgrade that was initially asked for.
Yes, it’s maddening that things are still not working as well as they were originally, but t’s easier for me to be patient now that I understand the big picture.
Davis X. Machina
@Adam L Silverman:
I’m happy with whoever Bernie chooses.
Because after Hillary’s withdrawal last night (or this morning) it’s his call.
*I presume Mrs. Clinton withdrew last night, or this morning, because her Nancy Reagan comments, and the comments on the Chicago rally, were that bad, she would have to.
I mean, they’re that bad.
Frankensteinbeck
@Davis X. Machina:
GASP! Hillary said that political violence is bad and Trump should stop stirring it up! BURN THE WITCH.
WaterGirl
@Adam L Silverman: Yes, you do, and I am exceedingly grateful for that!
Elizabelle
@Davis X. Machina: Haven’t heard HRC’s funeral comments, but was delighted to see this headline on the Chicago Tribune website:
Hillary Clinton apologizes for praising Nancy Reagan’s nonexistent AIDS activism
Now. Was that that hard? From the article:
Anya
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: I am puzzled by people who say Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump represent the same anger. Are they watching and listening to the same Trump the rest of us know and loathe? Trump is a demagogue who uses a collection of words that don’t mean anything. Are people so shallow that they’re impressed by his constant brag about how he’s self-funding his campaign? I am honestly baffled by all of this.
Felonius Monk
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: All the Twitter response to this is kind of funny. Everybody saying they are giving up their favorite Ben Jerry’s flavor cause of Ben Cohen’s statement. Too bad, Ben & Jerry’s was sold to Unilever around 2000 and Cohen resigned as CEO in 1996. Cohen has had little to do with the company since the sale.
But I guess some of us on the left don’t let facts get in our way either.
Gelfling545
@Baud: As I recall The Doctor got the prime minister of Great Britain deposed by mentioning that she looked tired. Since this election cycle is already stranger than fiction it’s worth a try.
Helen
Holy cow. There is a video on Mashable News’ twitter from a Trump rally in Dayton this morning. Someone screams behind Trump (although you can’t hear the scream) and Trump jumps so far that he almost pulls the podium down. Then the secret service?? jumps on stage to protect him.
He looked terrified. I can’t seem to link, but go check it out.
Redshift
@Schlemazel (parmesan rancor):
There’s a difference between playing the victim and running away. Trump gains by playing the victim all the time – talking about how the establishment or his rivals are attacking him, how “those people” are ruining the country, etc. But cancelling a rally because of fear of protesters (that’s what claiming it was done “for security reasons” is) isn’t “playing the victim”, it’s admitting that someone beat you, that you’re not so tough.
He’s doing his best to deflect it into making his people angry that ” those people ” prevented them from getting their audience with Il Douche. Only time will tell if he gets more benefit from that than he loses from running away, but this isn’t all positive for Trump’s image.
bemused
@Adam L Silverman:
It’s unlikely she is the same woman that John Mccain had to correct that Obama was a Christian, not a Muslim but no doubt they would be best buddies if they met each other.
A part of me feels badly for these people. They are unbelievably clueless and ignorant.
Today a Trump supporter told a reporter that he likes Trump because he is repeating what our Founders said.
Amir Khalid
@Davis X. Machina:
No, they aren’t that bad. Why should Hillary withdraw?
Elizabelle
I don’t want to see Trump implode this early. Better that he get the nomination.
Atypical as this primary season has been, I do not see him being elected. Neither does the GOP establishment.
And I want to see them go down. Hard. They built this. They own it. Actions should finally have consequences for them, too.
Mike in NC
Trump and Tweety: were these bloviating morons separated at birth?
Adam L Silverman
@Helen: Here you go:
https://twitter.com/MashableNews/status/708709989033099264
And here’s the one with them removing the protester:
https://twitter.com/JaxAlemany/status/708708436683390976
Anya
@Helen: Here’s the link
Helen
@Adam L Silverman: Thanks
Adam L Silverman
@bemused: I like the “The Silent Majority Supports Trump” signs. I’m not sure if its dawned on the people that hold them at the rallies while they yell and scream and applaud, but they’re making a lot of noise.
Adam L Silverman
@Helen: You’re welcome.
Kay
My son lives in Chicago. He’s a kind of centrist Dem- he’s supporting Clinton. He says any Saint Patrick’s Day in Chicago is much more terrifying than the protesters :)
Miss Bianca
@Frankensteinbeck:
You know, the more I hear you talk about Kentucky, the more I’m starting to think “Justified” is actually a documentary…
Anya
A Very Sweaty Donald Trump Was Just Spooked by a Screaming Protestor
SFAW
@A Ghost To Most:
No shit. It took, what, two weeks for RtR to switch from Rubio to Canada Cruz? Pretty soon he’s going to run out of “sponsors.”
Maybe Jeb? will resurrect his campaign.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Amir Khalid: (Davis only posts very dry snark. ;-)
Cheers,
Scott.
BBA
@Gelfling545: And she was replaced by Harold Saxon, a Trump-esque figure if there ever was one. Enslaving the population of Earth as part of an absurd plot to conquer the universe, that’s right up Donald’s alley.
bemused
@Adam L Silverman:
They really do live in an alternate universe. I clicked by accident on a rightwing blog with the video. which shows Trump jumped and looked very startled. The blogger was incensed that liberals were implying that Trump was scared saying what he saw was hero Trump turning toward the danger and ready to take on the POS probably hired by George Soros.
Miss Bianca
@Kay:
Yeah, I’ve played bars on St. Paddy’s Day in Chicago. Green beer, red faces, lots of screaming and pogo’ing. Good times! But I was always glad to be on stage rather than in the crowd.
ETA Just like Trump, I imagine.
Davis X. Machina
@Amir Khalid:
Serially offended two key Democratic base constituencies.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Anya: I don’t watch Fox News so I didn’t see the segment. If Ben did say those words, I’m sure there’s a lot of other stuff in the […]. That’s an example of why I’m very, very suspicious of sentence fragment quotes, and any quote with ellipsis present.
Ben Cohen apparently is a huge Bernie fan. But I think I saw somewhere else that he’s never voted/been politically active before. (Don’t assume I got that part correct.)
Cheers,
Scott.
Bill E Pilgrim
@bemused:
“I hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are not created equal, that I am endowed by the Creator with certain yuge unalienable rights “
GregB
Can we officially declare that it is spring time for Hitler?
hilts
@Helen:
I saw that video as well. My first reaction was Marco Rubio’s line about Trump possibly pissing in his pants. I’d bet Trump either pissed or crapped in his pants at that moment and I’m glad that it has been preserved for future generations.
Amir Khalid
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
I knew that. I was, um, just playing along.
SiubhanDuinne
@Adam L Silverman:
For the record, that piece was written by Charlie’s wife, Margaret Doris, not Charlie himself.
brendan
@Betty Cracker: I agree somewhat Betty. But no matter what, Trump gets all the headlines. If he staged a rally where the only thing that happened was someone emitting a loud fart – the headline would be “Protesters attempt to gas Trump at rally”…
And regarding him long “unwell” – it takes a lot of energy to spew as much bile and hatred as he does.
Renie
@Ready: you are really ridiculous; your loyalty seems to be only to who pays you pennies for trolling, first you were for JEB?, then Rubio now Cruz. Once tRump gets the nomination you will be for him.
Go somewhere else
O. Felix Culpa
@Adam L Silverman: Both Castro and Cummings sound like good options. Thanks.
bemused
@Bill E Pilgrim:
I think he’s only read David Barton books so has no need to read the Founders actual words.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Amir Khalid: D’Oh!
Cheers,
Scott.
hilts
@Mike in NC:
These 2 guys need to get a room so that Matthews can finally get to suck Trump’s dick.
Bill E Pilgrim
@Baud:
That’s why I’m hoping for Trump as the Republican nominee. Best voter increase method I can possibly imagine. This guy stole my comparison that I had already posted here twice (I’m kidding) (not kidding that that I posted first, kidding that he stole the idea by reading Balloon Juice) and it holds up. Not a perfect analogy by any means, but a good illustration of what can happen.
cckids
On FB this morning, George Takei said about Trump, (I’m paraphrasing); “As a Californian, I know what happens when wild, hot air stirs up embers; they burst into flame”.
That is what Trump is deliberately doing. Rachel is the only journalist I’ve seen call him out on it, with no blame placed on the protesters.
Redshift
@Mike in NC:
Don’t worry, I seriously doubt we are seeing Trump imploding.
Baud
@Bill E Pilgrim:
Don’t be so sure. BJ is widely recognized as an incubator of political thought and insight.
gogol's wife
@Anya:
Wow, just wow.
Bill E Pilgrim
@cckids: I think I misread the quote, so — never mind!
Teddy's Person
Long time lurker and very occasional commenter. I watched the Maddow piece and am both angry and heartsick by the rise of Trump. The whole Trump phenomenon is appalling, but I want to comment specifically on Trump’s shtick of “othering” the protesters by saying those people are bringing us down.
The country that Trump wants to make great again was built by protesters, and the original sons of liberty did not practice civil disobedience. Sam Adams and his crew would have literally tarred and feathered heir Drumpf. Throughout American history, protest has been a part of change, and many protester should be remembered for putting their bodies in harm’s way to make this country a better place. During the summer of 1961, waves of Freedom Riders, who were mostly college students, rode busses through the Deep South to get those states to uphold existing laws about the desegregation of interstate travel. These Freedom Riders were beaten, arrested, and sent to Parchman Farm, a notoriously brutal prison. Know all of this, Freedom Riders kept riding the buses south. JFK asked John Seigenthaler to contact Diane Nash, one of the coordinators of the Freedom Rides, and try to stop the Freedom Rides. During their conversation, Seigenthaler told Nash that she could get killed. She replied that she and the other Freedom Riders knew this and had made out their wills. Let that sink in a minute – college students wrote their wills. These young people were willing to put their bodies on the line to make America a better place. I can’t help think of the Freedom Riders in light of what happened in Chicago yesterday, and Trump is fucking Bull Conner. Given what hotbeds of violence Trump’s rally have become, the protesters in St. Louis and Chicago put their bodies on the line to say this is not right, this is not the America I want.
So, fuck you heir Drumpf for claiming that protesting at your rallies is not an extraordinarily America act.
Bill E Pilgrim
@Baud: I’m not sure if you’re kidding but from his piece it’s clear we had parallel experiences in terms of living there at the time and etc, and anyone who did couldn’t help but see the similarities between that and now.
Elizabelle
@Anya: LOL.
One of the Gawker commenters offers Trump her dog’s Thundershirt.
Baud
@Bill E Pilgrim: I never kid.
Anya
Iowa Old Lady
Breitbart spokesman Kurt Bardella has resigned over the way the organization supported Trump rather than their assaulted reporter.
bemused
@Bill E Pilgrim:
Good article even if he did read your comment.
Anya
@gogol’s wife: @Elizabelle: I shouldn’t be laughing at Trump being nervous but at the same time it’s funny because the fake tough guy bravado is part of his appeal.
Elizabelle
@Teddy’s Person: Teddy should be proud of you for such an excellent comment.
It is chilling that the Freedom Riders drew up wills. As do our service members.
lamh36
@Amir Khalid: Well here is Rubio…still saying he “Intend to support nominee”, but “it’s getting harder everyday.”
https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/708657520374452224
Teddy's Person
@Elizabelle: Thanks! Teddy’s even prouder when I break out the treats : D
Helen
@Anya: And he is still playing it. At the end of the video he insists he was “ready” for the protestor but it’s “better that the police do it” Yeah, no. Dude was scared shitless.
lamh36
yes!!!
Saw this video last night…it was hilarious. Dude just calmly as you please..tore up the Trump sign, smiled and walked away..lol
He’s my hero
Peale
@efgoldman: the NBC cable news networks were formed specifically by Jack Welsh for the purpose of getting his opinions on the Clintons out there, and he didn’t like the Clintons.
Kay
As Obama said last night in Texas, it’s tough to take this seriously from establishment Republicans.
Kasich’s grave, purely patriotic concerns about Trump coincide with Trump launching a full-out assault on Kasich in Ohio. None of these people are leaders. They don’t do anything unless they’re the target of the attack.
Their opposition is half-assed and weak because they’re all hoping some of this accrues to their own benefit or the benefit of the GOP. It’s more about angling for position than anything else.
lamh36
@Anya: is this the vid where the SS rushed on stage?
Meh…looked fake azz heck to me…I saw a few news org saying protesters, but are they finally sure it was a “protester” and not just an excited bigot supporter who tried to jump barricade?
I guess “protester” feeds the narrative better though.
WaterGirl
@Teddy’s Person: Post more, lurk less.
trollhattan
@Iowa Old Lady:
Someone at Breitbart with ethics? How did that ever happen? “Mistakes were made.”
Origuy
Here’s an account from someone who was at the Chicago rally and saw Grammaw Nazi.
I think this is the guy on the left in the photo.
Brachiator
@Elizabelle:
People (including me, earlier) keep predicting that Trump will implode. He keeps not imploding. He may not implode all the way to the White House.
The GOP fears that Trump will be defeated. They fear even more that he might win. The mainstream GOP cannot control him. They fear this most of all.
lamh36
This woman is an idiot..
Baud
@lamh36:
Hahahaha. So she’s saying Cruz is Veep material.
trollhattan
@Baud:
Bam!
Adam L Silverman
@SiubhanDuinne: Okay, I missed the byline. Regardless of who wrote it, its a good recommendation.
Miss Bianca
@lamh36: @Baud:
My God…you really can’t make this shit up. My irony meter has long since gone all ‘splodey, now it just twitches a little every time one of these maroons opens their mouths…
Brachiator
@efgoldman: re: I’m not sure that Warren guarantees many votes overall
I meant that I did not see a Warren VP pick as insuring that Comrade Bernie’s supporters would come along and vote for a Clinton/Warren ticket.
I don’t know that Warren would excite much enthusiasm among Democratic voters generally.
Adam L Silverman
@gogol’s wife: OT, but this is what I got back from Alain in regards to the problem you experienced last night:
scav
@Miss Bianca: et al. Does that that woman have enough self-awareness to recognize her face in a mirror? Does someone else put on her makeup?
Adam L Silverman
@Origuy: He is the guy on the left in the picture (to her right in reality) watching her do the salute. I linked to his twitter remarks on this earlier.
gogol's wife
@Adam L Silverman:
Thanks.
Origuy
A drunk on a snowmobile attacked two mushers in the Iditerod, injuring two dogs and killing one.
SiubhanDuinne
@Adam L Silverman:
Oh, I agree. I think Cummings would be a great pick. As would Julián Castro.
We’re so used to seeing everything at Esquire Politics be from Charlie that I’m always a little taken aback when a piece turns out to be by someone else.
Teddy's Person
@WaterGirl: I think I listen to my inner Aaron Burr too much. You know, talk less, smile more : )
Germy
@Adam L Silverman:
http://crooksandliars.com/2016/03/trump-supporters-falsely-identify-sanders
Trump’s son (and other supporters) made the false claim that the nazi salute lady is a Sanders supporter.
ChrisH
@Davis X. Machina: Feel like I woke up in the Twilight Zone today. I can’t for the life of me see what was offensive about Hillary’s tweet regarding violence which I took within the context of Trump rallies to be directed at Trump supporters who have been roughing up protesters. And yet I woke up today and see people around the internet talking as though Hillary punched Martin Luther King Jr. in the face. By this logic shouldn’t Bernie have dropped out after he said race relations would be much better in his administration vs Obama’s?
The HIV comments do seem troubling, but she quickly apologized and acknowledged she misspoke. I haven’t seen any deep analysis of what went on in her head, but I’ve had some crossed wires before. I once told a news station that the pledge of allegiance was written during the war of 1812 (I was thinking the Star Spangled Banner). I don’t know. If someone in the LGBT community feels this warrants changing their vote to Bernie Sanders I wouldn’t criticize their decision to switch, but from my vantage point it seemed like an unfortunate mistake that was quickly rectified.
jurassicpork
The Night Chicago Died a Little More, a must read by Mike Flannigan.
Adam L Silverman
@SiubhanDuinne: In my case when I click on the Politics with Pierce link, instead of the general News and Politics link over there, I kind of default to: its by Pierce. Bateman’s stuff is pretty easy to determine, by headline and style, that its his and not Pierce’s.
And the potential pics I’ve highlighted would be good regardless of nominee, not that I think the two messaging errors by Secretary Clinton will really amount to much.
Miss Bianca
@scav:
No. No, she doesn’t. It’s the same with all bully boys and girls, all self-satisfieds like that. They can’t see what they are. You can confront them with it, and they stand looking at you amazed, AMAZED. Affronted. “I never said that!” “I never meant that!” and my favorite: “You’re crazy! *You’re* the one with the problem!”
I remember, years ago already, one of the playwrights I worked with saying that he was giving up writing political satire because reality had outstripped his ability to satirize it. Since then, it’s just gotten crazier. I keep thinking we’re going to reach some kind of saturation point of human political irrationality – just like “peak wingnut” – but so far, I haven’t seen it yet.
Germy
smith
In a number of places around the net this morning I’m seeing hand-wringing about the optics of the Chicago protest, especially as it plays into a narrative of poor persecuted Trump beset by violent hordes of Those People. I’m rather old, and I recall the same kind of hand-wringing over civil rights, antiwar, women’s rights and gay rights protests. Somehow the magic underpants of not provoking the fascist/racist/sexist/homophobe/warmongers while maybe politely requesting some adjustments would eventually result in peace and justice in the world. I hardly need to say that those magic underpants never produced profit.
There are two advantages from an optics point of view that I see coming from the events last night that haven’t been discussed much:
1. It breaks the Fox-News/hate-radio/white-suburban-rural bubble that Trump’s supporters live in. Everyone they know and everyone they listen to agrees with them — this might help them recognize that large parts of the country do not live in that bubble.
2. What the anti-Trump protesters did was a show of strength. To the authoritarians who are his base this is significant. It might ramp up their fear, and that will most likely lead to increased aggression on their part, but they can’t pretend to themselves that their enemies are cowardly or weak or that there will be never be consequences for their aggression. Since shows of strength are the common currency for right wing authoritarians, this upsets their whole mental economy.
Miss Bianca
@Teddy’s Person:
Yeah, well…you see where that got Aaron Burr.
(Yup, I went there. “No laugh too cheap”, that’s my motto).
SiubhanDuinne
@Origuy:
That is appalling. If you haven’t already, you might want to cross-post it at Hillary Rettig’s “Faunasphere” thread next door.
(I don’t see anything at the link to suggest the snowmobilist was drunk, although he may well have been. But he is most certainly an asshole, a criminal, and a sociopath. I hope the authorities throw the book at him.)
debbie
@Germy:
And that is why politics is nothing more than smarm.
Adam L Silverman
@Bill E Pilgrim: There’s one major difference though. The mainstream right and left of center political parties in France are not self deluding and delusional. Nor did the Socialists spend twenty plus years trying to present Jacques Chirac as the most evil and manipulative person to ever live within the Republic, nor has the Rally for the Republic and United Democratic Front (RPR, UDF, and RPR/UDF coalitions) spent twenty plus years vilifying Lionel Jospin in the same manner.
Teddy's Person
@Miss Bianca: @Miss Bianca: No laugh is cheap when it includes historical references. That’s my motto!
Germy
@debbie:
POLITICS, n. A strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. The conduct of public affairs for private advantage.
– Ambrose Bierce, Devil’s Dictionary
Adam L Silverman
@Germy: I know, I mentioned that way, way above – with links. They found some woman’s picture from her FB page or something from the Chicago burbs who is a Sanders’ supporter, and who is older and has white hair and if you squint and hold the picture just right she kind of sort of looks like she might possibly be the woman in the Chicago Tribune photo. Unfortunately for that thesis, the Chicago Tribune identified the woman in their photo and where she lives. But as you know, for Trump supporters, all older white women with white hair look alike.
Adam L Silverman
@ChrisH: Dan Savage had a meltdown, but as much as I think highly of him and his work, his being very angry isn’t going to swing the election.
Germy
@Adam L Silverman: Didn’t see that. I’m late, as usual.
Adam L Silverman
@Germy: from my comment #102 above
and my comment #108 above
My favorite are the folks on social media, like in that twitter feed I linked to, trying to indicate she’s a democrat who is doing organizing work for Bernie Sanders despite the Chicago Tribune identifying her name, where she’s from, and who she’s supporting.
WarMunchkin
@Brachiator: As much as I’d love Warren in a position where she can give more input to personnel, this is true. Warren appeals to liberals, which are 20% of the electorate and are voting Democratic anyway, or Green, or are staying home. The “fauxahontas” stuff will turn off moderates easily.
But that’s from the perspective of using a VP candidate to secure more votes. I don’t think that’s a thing anymore. She should pick someone she likes and can work well with (which means no Warren, based on the stories). She should pick Obama.
Baud
@WarMunchkin: Obama couldn’t assume the presidency again if something were to happen to Hillary.
smith
@WarMunchkin:
Obama’s not eligible — the VP has to meet the same criteria as the president, and he’s had two terms. Besides, if she could pick a former pres, why wouldn’t she pick Bill?
kc
So Al Giordano thinks protesters shutting down a Sanders rally is good, but clutches his pearls over protesters shutting down a Trump rally.
With liberals like that, who needs conservatives?
Darkrose
@Danton: Someone on Wonkette suggested a flash mob performance of “Springtime for Hitler” at a Trump rally.
kc
@Adam L Silverman:
The people defaming her include Donald Trump, Jr.
scav
@Adam L Silverman: Perhaps we could start spreading the meme that the sole and only reason Trump rallies are so big is they are filled to the very brim with stealth Bernie supporters and other democrats and protestors. Taking notes and taking names. Granted, that could possibly start fist-fights between true-believers suddenly being distrustful of all their neighbors.
Adam L Silverman
@kc: I am aware. You were expecting the gilded apple to far fall from the tree?
John M. Burt
In addition to everything else, she’s doing the Hitler salute wrong: the hand is supposed to be level with the eyes.
That’s right, she’s too stupid to even make a good bigot.
Miss Bianca
@Origuy:
That is disgusting. And horrifying. Jesus, Mary and Bride.
Chyron HR
@jurassicpork:
I prefer “Why won’t you Obot shitfucks give me free money?”, a mustn’t-read by Jurassicpork.
Darkrose
@Chyron HR: You win the internets for today. Also, you suck, because now I’m imagining the last verse with Trump yelling “Who the hell does the Queen of England think she is?” and singing about how he’ll just build a yoooger and classier palace in Vegas and not invite her.
Adam L Silverman
@scav: (read this with Oprah’s voice in your head): You get a riot! And you get a right! And you get a riot!
Betty Cracker
@Chyron HR: Flawed business model.
elm
@ChrisH: It features an appallingly bad interpretation of what brought the traitor flag at the SC statehouse down.
1. It ignores Bree Newsome and her forebearers in organizing against that horrible thing.
2. It sets the wrong standard. Black people deserve better. Suggesting (as Clinton does) that the way to get even minimal change (literally removing the slaver’s flag) requires saintly calm response to racist mass murder.
Michael Furlan
America: I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody’s part!
Chicago: We’re just the guys to do it.
Felonius Monk
I’m still waiting for someone in the MSM to ask Ben Carson how much money Trump paid him for his endorsement. I’ll bet it was a yooge amount.
Kay
Ridiculous clown and GOP standard-bearer begins his tour of Ohio.
The sitting governor of Ohio, John Kasich, is so scared of this dope he doesn’t dare to cross him publicly.
They both want to be President of the United States.
Villago Delenda Est
@Marc McKenzie: Al has missed the boat, entirely. Drumpf’s appeal is limited. His power is only over his own pool of wretched racist scum, and he’ll break it himself when he’s forced to renounce their tactics against the anti-Drumpf protesters, and he will be. The first time there is a death of some anti-Drumpf demonstrator (and it seems that is, regrettably, inevitable at this point) the backlash will be so great that even the wretched vermin of the Village will no longer be able to ignore what is going on.
Brachiator
@smith:
Actually, I think there is ambiguity here. There would be a Supreme Court challenge. What fun.
Besides, Bill seems to be aging fast. Even if it were totally possible, he might be a terrible pick.
Also, if it were possible to do this, she would lose in a landslide. This kind of thing would come be a closed loop dynasty. It should never be possible for anyone at any time to pull a stunt like this. This would be almost as bad as the kind of thing you saw Putin doing, flipping between president and premier.
Peale
@ChrisH: there were a lot of gay social media types behaving like this in the early years of Obama’s presidency trying to ratchet up the outrage in gay men, convincing many of the more committed progressives Obama was a mistake and that he was the most hyperbolic homophobe then. They just knew that his claims that he wanted to be a “fierce advocate” for gay rights was a backhanded code for throwing them in the oven.
After awhile that schtik gets old, doesn’t it? I doubt that a single one of those outraged to death so I’m gonna vote for Bernie types was going to vote for Hillary in the primary. I’m not gonna waste my time with them again. They like to lead people in circles.
She said what she said and when she found out it upset people she apologized. She did not in fact “shit on” her supporters. If that’s the worst political insult gays ever heard, I think we’re in pretty good shape. It would appear that she listens to and responds to criticism from the community. If you think that’s a crime against humanity, fine. But I’m gonna mock “leaders” who engage in circle jerks like that because I don’t find them particularly useful.
singfoom
I’m with those that think Al is wrong. I’m so proud of Chicago right now. I’m sure that Drumpf will play the victim card because Free Speech is only for the “right people”. The protestors weren’t thugs, they were patriots protesting a demagogue and a bigot.
If you’re going to have a rally that’s about shitting on the other it’s probably not a good choice to do it in a highly diverse urban area like Chicago.
I for one think that Drumpf knew this would happen.
Mike J
@smith:
Because there are already too many people on the right AND the left who are convinced he’s the one who’s actually running, since a girl couldn’t president by herself anyway.
Aleta
Trump announces his campaign:
” a lot of people … can’t get jobs. They can’t get jobs because there are no jobs because China has our jobs and Mexico has our jobs. They all have our jobs.”
Trump yells at protester yesterday:
“Go home and get a job. Get a job. GET. A. JOB”
Jobless Trump supporters cheer.
Brachiator
@ChrisH:
Some people just like to feel outraged. In fact, reading your entirely reasonable post is making me feel outraged.
Must be something contagious.
Robert Sneddon
@smith: Jimmy Carter is available.
Peale
@Robert Sneddon: So is Bush 43. Now wouldn’t that be something?
Gravenstone
As to avoid sullying the above thread with a Trump related link, this KOS posting was flagged by a friend of mine on Facebook. If you read the take of the two young men shared after they attended an NC Trump rally as a lark, it reinforces in a very frightening manner just how much of an intentional (and exceedingly shallow) demagogue Trump is and how he manipulates and feeds off the anger at these rallies.
ChrisH
@elm: I…guess she may have minimized the complexity of the SC Confederate flag issue somewhat….but I dunno this still is not resonating for me at all. I mean her words are still technically correct right? Advocates in South Carolina responded to a tragedy with words and deeds, they didn’t burn down the statehouse.
Sure, ‘melting hearts’ is a dumb theory of political change but she isn’t writing a dissertation on the merits of different styles of advocacy, she’s trying to throw together a hundred words to condemn violence from Trump supporters. Have some god damn perspective.
This is feeling very circular firing squad to me.
randy khan
@Brachiator:
@smith:
Obama and Bill Clinton are ineligible to be elected President, but the 22nd Amendment doesn’t actually have any language that would prevent a former President from becoming President again through other means. You revert to Article II in such a case, and both are eligible under Article II, just as they were when they were elected.
Exact wording of the relevant part of the 22nd Amendment, in case anyone cares:
No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once.
Peale
@randy khan: Obama could run for a house seat, become speaker and be in the line of succession. Or be a cabinet member and hope for an absolute catastrophe.
Brachiator
@randy khan:
This is a reasonable conclusion, but no one has tested it. As I said earlier, anyone who tried to do this would see a case zoom to the Supremes.
FlipYrWhig
@Brachiator: I honestly think it’s a case where activists and Hillary are talking past each other. I think Hillary meant that the Reagans and the Rock Hudson situation got straight people aware and talking about AIDS _at all_. And HIV/AIDS activists rightly say that they were doing everything possible to _make_ the world aware, and it was falling on deaf ears.
Brachiator
@FlipYrWhig:
I’m in Southern California. I detest Ronald Reagan. I used bow down when I passed the office of Paul Conrad, the LA Times editorial cartoonist who hated Reagan with a hot passion and scorched his ass with vicious well aimed barbs.
But I recognize that a lot of people were trying to say nice things about Nancy Reagan on her passing, even if it stretched the truth. this includes HRC. The people trying to roast Hillary about this are misdirecting their anger.
A temporary truce in the ideological culture wars does not mean that a cause is not righteous.
Heliopause
He already was doing that. The Establishment is against him, FOX News is against him, Political Correctness is against him, Cruz cheats, etc. etc. etc. Might want to keep up on current events, Al.
As opposed to all the SICK BURNS that he’s getting on Twitter and the Balloon Juice comment section, which are working like a charm.
Right, he was hardly getting any attention at all until last night.
What can I say, Al. Bernie’s been putting on rallies of thousands to even tens of thousands of people and they’ve gotten a tiny fraction of the attention that Trump’s get. BLM protesters have been massing and shutting down cities to the extent that they can. What’s your suggestion for outfascisting a fascist? Maybe Bernie should start taking pledges of obedience? Slaughter a farm animal in front of everybody? I know, next debate he can compare penis size with Hillary.
You see, Al, what’s so stupid about your tweets is that this stunt accomplished exactly what you just said the movement should be aiming for, which is to grab a little bit of the attention for themselves away from Trump. And since Trump was getting ALL the attention the only possible way to attack it was directly.
This is the same puerile, horseshit catch-22 that gets trotted out to social movements every time. Every time.
elm
@ChrisH: They didn’t do it with unifying words and deeds, not exclusively. Bree Newsome’s act caught denouncement from white moderates.
And Clinton’s statement doesn’t single out Trump and his Nazis (the purveyors and enablers of political violence). It reads as equally directed to Both Sides.
To me, it smells of the white-moderatism that MLK referred to.
Wait, wait. Wait for Trump’s victory before you protest his hate. Wait for mass murder and then melt the racists’ hearts to remove their flag.
I’m not black or brown or Muslim. Trump does not directly threaten me. But the time to stop him is now. Now is a poor time to lecture non-violent protestors about violence.
kc
@Adam L Silverman:
Not at all! He’s deleted the tweet, but the damage was done.
elm
@kc: As long as the lie made it halfway around the world!
Nate Dawg
@ChrisH:
Please watch the clip. It was not mis-speaking. It was not crossed wires. It was not tiredness or any of the other things proffered as an excuse.
it was a blatant attempt to be “moderate” and appeal to INDEPENDENTS and she deliberately stated it.
Of course it was a mistake, because it backfired. But it wasn’t an accidental slip of the tongue. It was couched, careful, and most certainly deliberate.
randy khan
@Brachiator:
It would take a pretty strained reading to say that a sentence that refers to election to the Presidency covers anything else.
FlipYrWhig
@Nate Dawg: I don’t see that it had anything to do with playing to Reagan fans. I honestly think it was supposed to appeal to LGBT people. I think it was supposed to be “the one thing I give Nancy Reagan credit for is her slow-moving bare tolerance of a famous gay friend.”
Nate Dawg
@FlipYrWhig: Wow. So she’s a) out of touch and b) a terrible campaigner.
I viewed the whole schtick as a blatant pandering to the great white middle who loved them some Ronnie and Nancy. Fuck her for whatever she was trying to do–just like so many other things in her life, she sure knows how to fail spectacularly.
FlipYrWhig
@Nate Dawg: If she was simply trying to appeal to Reagan fans she’d have said that Nancy had matchless elegance or some such thing. It clearly wasn’t that.
FlipYrWhig
@Nate Dawg: And you can start a “national conversation” in a lot of different ways, including by making people think, “damn, why isn’t anyone doing anything about this?” But in this case I think the point was what I said. And there is some story or stories out there about Nancy nudging Ron into being less repulsed by the gay disease. Is that “low key activism”? That may be going too far. But that’s not much of a failure IMHO. It’s kind of like “likeable enough.”
The Sheriff Endorses Baud 2016
@Nate Dawg: Yup, she’s totally botching her campaign to become President of the Internet. I’m sure she’s all broken up.
Nate Dawg
@The Sheriff Endorses Baud 2016: No, she’s just stuck in the 90’s.
Obama showed us all how it’s done, and she’s following her husband’s lead rather than his.
We don’t need Sister Souljah and Doma tepid triangulation. We don’t need “both sides do it” and “wait for a mass murder and then be nice” activism. We’ve already had 8 years of none of that shit, and it’s infurating as hell that she’s still pulling out those tired set-pieces from her past.
I realize she’s old and has been sheltered for 30 years, but the country has changed, and we demand better now. We demanded better and got in 2008.
Why can’t we have it today?
I’ll tell you this–the GOP is stupid as fuck for throwing this election away. But I’m not complaining because HEIL DRUMPF. Still….it’s going to be a long, long, long 4 years if we have to thank her for gracing us with her DNA every time she spits in our faces.
The Sheriff Endorses Baud 2016
@Nate Dawg: Because you are getting it today. What part of raising the minimum wage and providing free two years of community college are you missing? Clinton can learn, she has learned, and she’s working to extend and improve on Obama’s two terms. Step outside of the epistemic closure of Twitter and liberal blogs and take a look at what Hillary Clinton actually is standing for and running on.
Politics on the internet is not politics.
Nate Dawg
@The Sheriff Endorses Baud 2016: I mean, you’re right of course.
I’ve just become accustomed to getting a chill up my leg for so long, that it’s going to be hard to go back to work.
Peale
@Nate Dawg: Christ on a itch fork. You appear to be stuck in the 1990s. Hillary was not telegraphing a turn against the gays or the blacks yesterday. The only people being flung under the bus in the past 24 hours are flinging themselves. Probably folks against public transportation. The debate
On DOMA within the Democratic Party is over. It is finished. Done. Dead. Gone. Buried. Deceased. It is a blue parrot. There is no natural movement to get disaffected evangelicals into the party by promising to appoint judges unfavorable to same sex marriage. Or passing religious freedom laws. I see nothing in those comments yesterday to indicate that she’s ready to screw the gays.
FlipYrWhig
@Nate Dawg: I think you’re forgetting Obama’s many missteps large and small on LGBT issues, from Donnie McClurkin to Rick Warren to the DOJ brief on same-sex marriage that (it was said) likened same-sex couples to practitioners of inçest to the brief defeat of the repeal of Don’t Ask Don’t Tell when it was part of the military funding bill to the inclusion of a study of the effects of the repeal in the standalone Don’t Ask Don’t Tell repeal bill. And each time activists raised a ruckus. Pointing to Obama as a model for how to handle LGBT issues smoothly is undoing that entire history. Most of that history was overblown. You see where I’m going with this, right?
Nate Dawg
@FlipYrWhig: I was hoping someone would bring up the red herring of Donnie McClurkin and Rick Warren.
Obama didn’t lift up their opinion on gay issues as something to be ADMIRED. He simply allowed them to participate, and I frankly admired him then, and still do, for doing that.
He practices what he preaches about being inclusive and reaching out.
At the inaugural, Rick Warren said a prayer, and a flaming homosexual read a poem. Seemed very “All One America to Me.” This is exactly an example of what I’m talking about as a way forward.
I defy you to come up with an example of Barack Obama that is in the same ballpark as
1) “All Lives Matter”
2) “Nancy did so much to raise awareness of AIDS”
3) “You all need to shut up and wait for a massacre before protesting”
Now that said, yes yes yes, she’s gonna win, blah blah blah, but she’s just a terrible candidate.
There is literally zero upside to her saying those things, and yet she does.
Give it to Obama, his reaching-across-the-chasm had an actual political benefit, and he managed to do it without pissing everyone off.
Nate Dawg
@Peale: Strawman. No one is saying she’s going to do anything to hurt the geyz.
We are saying that history is important. Our history is important. The history of those who came before and didn’t live to tell their tale is important. Let’s not re-write it.
What exactly did she accomplish? Nothing, right?
Okay, so it’s prima facie evidence of her incompetence as a campaigner, and certainly suggestive of worse–bad instincts perhaps.
FlipYrWhig
@Nate Dawg: Nice use of quotation marks there, bud. I think we’re done.
redshirt
Once awoken, hate will feed for a while….
Nate Dawg
@FlipYrWhig: I’m glad you found a way to save face and weasel out of having to defend the indefensible.
Currently watching Trump up the ante on the wall rhetoric. Jesus, this shit is awful.
Peale
@Nate Dawg: nice forgetting the meaning of words. You’re the one who brought up triangulation. That’s about policy. Fine flip out about historical revision. If your not mad about anything she is doing, promising to do, thinking about doing, you’re just trying to die over optics, who cares.
Paula
Look, I likely agree that this rally cancellation going energize Trump supporters even more, but … optics kinda fall by the wayside when you’re trying to defend yourself against open racism and fascism.
What’s that whole series of lines starting with “first they came for …”? We failed to take Trump’s baiting against Mexicans seriously, but now that he’s attacking white ladies and journalists too, it’s a Real Problem, but pointing it out now will only make it worse? How much worse can it get before we call it out “appropriately”? Kristallnacht? Internment part 2?
Like … I can’t anymore, either. The only time I ever marched in protest was out of fear of the Iraq war, and I’m pretty risk averse generally. But if Trump was holding rallies anywhere near me it would be ON, because I too am afraid and I deserve the chance to counter these white nationalists.
Jean
@ChrisH: I agree with you, Chris. But if you wander over to the frog pond, most commenters are nearly apoplectic about it. It’s just a steady stream of anti-Hillary threads. I’m now only reading Booman’s posts and moving on.
Nate Dawg
@Paula: I wonder what Al’s statement is actually pointing out.
Perhaps he was arguing for a counter-protest in a different location that Trump can’t use as leverage to promote himself directly (victim card). One that is well-done and would literally take eyeballs off his nonsense, and drive him to higher and higher heights of stupidity.
For the life of me, I don’t think sitting around doing nothing is the proper approach here, and the people organizing can’t magically make media give them free coverage on a shoestring budget.