Open Thread: Could Be Worse, You Could Be A Republican

The above tweet made me curious enough to check the source. Allahpundit’s very first line:

I can’t shake the nagging suspicion that not only isn’t this guy [Trump] conservative, he doesn’t much respect conservatism either when you come right down to it…

… Some voters, as Shapiro says, don’t care about conservatism in the first place; either they’ve been centrists for years or they’ve drifted towards nationalism in frustration with the GOP. But others probably do still identify as conservative yet have no problem identifying Trump that way too because their definition of conservatism is thin and consists in great part of opposition to the left…

… The true risk to Trump in lumping conservatives in with Beltway Republicans is that it makes the right’s incentive to go third-party stronger if he ends up as nominee. If conservatives are part of the problem that a Trump-led GOP is trying to overcome, why would they stick around and support him in the general? Better for that 20 percent of the party to go indie and vote for Romney or whoever, even at the expense of electing a Democrat, since it would force nationalists to recognize that they can’t win without conservatives any more than conservatives can win without them…

I keep thinking of the punchline to the ancient joke about an overbearing bully confusing Raisinettes and rabbit pellets: See — you’re getting smarter already!

Apart from schadenfreude, what’s on the agenda as we start the (long for some) weekend?
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247 replies
  1. 1
    mclaren says:

    The “other tribe” will soon include everyone outside the Fuehrerbunker.

    Good times!

  2. 2
    guachi says:

    Had great time at the Clinton event in South Carolina. It was a small event in a small, rural, mostly black town.

    Clinton’s speech was okay. She sounded a bit hoarse and like she had a cold. Then the questions started.

    Wow. She was fantastic from first question to last, even on the crazy questions. Tried out her new lines of attack that we saw in the debate about not being a one issue candidate and got major applause anytime she defended anything Obama did.

    I didn’t get any pictures as I was under the mistaken impression I couldn’t bring my camera, so I left it in my car. And I had fantastic seats, too, as it was a very small venue.

    Still would like to get to see Sanders and see what a Noun-a Verb-and Wall Street Bankers sounds like for a full speech.

  3. 3
    khead says:

    New thread needs new kitteh pics.

  4. 4
    Felonius Monk says:

    Jim Gilmore got off the bus today. Bye Jim, we hardly knew ya.

  5. 5
    Adam L Silverman says:

    I think it is more along the lines of what Scott Lemieux talked about and linked to yesterday:
    http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblo.....-dont-want

    That Donald Trump’s stream of consciousness rambling promising vague improvements of certain things are more in line with actual members of the GOP, and specifically self identified conservatives than what either the GOP or movement conservative elites, notables, and leaders thing the base wants. Older, whiter people don’t want social security cut, they don’t want Medicare to go away. If they were actually offered it, they’d probably want more. Even the good folks in the hollers of Kentucky that Zandar writes about wanted their Kynect and didn’t believe that now Governor Bevin would take it away, despite him clearly saying he would take it away.

    Yes, tribal identifications/primary associations are important. But Donald Trump is tapping into more than that. The GOP and movement conservative elites don’t get that. Because just as like when Bobo Brooks goes visiting Adams County, PA he can’t process what he’s seeing. Also, full disclosure: Applebee’s do not have salad bars! That’s Ruby Tuesdays.

  6. 6

    Mrs. Cisco saved three lives. Both kidneys and liver. Will lay her to rest next week in our plot. She’ll only have to wait for me to come home one more time.

    Thanks to those who have asked about me. I’m doing OK.

  7. 7
    SiubhanDuinne, Annoying Scoundrel says:

    @Felonius Monk:

    I hardly knew he was in it when he was in it, so I imagine I won’t know he is out of it now he is out of it.

  8. 8
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant): Sincerest condolences.

  9. 9
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:

    Conservatives have had their entire identity for the past 8 years as who can get as close to calling President Obama a ni***er as it was possible to do. They have no ideas or anything to offer the middle class, so they’ve rendered the word conservative meaningless. It’s tribal, but without hating Obama as the focus of their hate and all the coded signifiers – like Kenyan Muslim takin’ our guns signifier – they’re in free fall. Soon to focus their hatred on the Dem, except Bernie will scold them and make them see the error of their ways, because reasons.

  10. 10
    Germy says:

    Wow! I just learned the actress Sue Johnston, who plays Gladys Denker on Downton Abbey (she’s the dowager’s maid feuding with Spratt the butler) used to work for Brian Epstein and dated a member of the Swinging Blue Jeans!

  11. 11
  12. 12
    Redshift says:

    @Felonius Monk:

    Jim Gilmore got off the bus today. Bye Jim, we hardly knew ya.

    How unusual to see that phrase applied completely literally. I grew up in Virginia and I hardly know him.

  13. 13
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant): Thank you. Travel safely home. And remember to be good to yourself.

  14. 14
    Doug R says:

    The racism Is the most important thing. Once you’ve got that, everything else can be your agenda.

  15. 15
    SiubhanDuinne, Annoying Scoundrel says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant):

    I have obviously missed some important comments. Had no idea, but please know you have my deepest sympathies. I’m so happy Mrs. Ben Cisco will live on so powerfully, and I hope the awareness of her great gift brings a measure of comfort to you. Sincere Juicer Hugs to you across the internets.

  16. 16
    gwangung says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant): Aw, man….condolences….

  17. 17
    Tommy says:

    @guachi: My gosh can Bernie get a break. Look I would love to have Hillary in this smaller setting. I am old enough to recall, living in DC of all places, the shit she had to endure. I will always have a more than little love for her there that she fought back and didn’t lie down. But I honestly have to ask what is the dude supposed to do to make you happy?

  18. 18
    amk says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant): My condolences. May she rest in peace.

  19. 19
    p.a. says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant): Didn’t know. So sorry. My friend’s son got a heart at 12 yrs old. He’s in college now. Your wife leaves a wonderful legacy.

  20. 20
    Germy says:

    @srv: A racist phoenix. With the endorsement of Sarah Palin.

  21. 21
    Jim, Foolish LIteralist says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant): very sorry for your loss

  22. 22
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:

    @Doug R:

    Yup. Go all in on white anxiety. Can’t lose. Which makes me marvel more with every passing day at the miracle of Barack Hussein Obama’s two landslides

  23. 23
    different-church-lady says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant): Wow. Strength.

  24. 24
    Pogonip says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant): I was not aware Mrs. Cisco had died recently! I’m so sorry to hear it, but glad to hear her goodness lives on.

  25. 25
    hilts says:

    @Felonius Monk:

    Rachel Maddow will be heartbroken.

  26. 26
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant):

    That’s an amazing gift! What a miracle of life, and all blessings to you.

  27. 27
  28. 28
    Anoniminous says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant):

    Please accept my condolences.

  29. 29
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: One is never as good as one believe oneself to be. And one’s opponents are never as evil.

  30. 30
    Thor Heyerdahl says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant): All the best to you and yours.

  31. 31
    Capri says:

    So conservatives are going for Trump because they aren’t actually conservative? Just like the reason evangelical Christians support Trump is that it turns out they aren’t particularly religious.

  32. 32
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Capri: Apparently there are no True Scotsmen anywhere.

  33. 33
    Emma says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant): I am sorry to hear of your loss but amazed at the blessings she bestowed on others.

  34. 34
    amk says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant): As others have said, she leaves behind a wonderful legacy.

  35. 35
    different-church-lady says:

    Completely over-thinking it: they like him because he insults people and blames all woes on brown people. Everything else is unnecessary detail.

  36. 36
  37. 37
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @SiubhanDuinne, Annoying Scoundrel: How beautifully put. Co-sign.

  38. 38
    The Fat Kate Middleton says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant): I, too, had missed this in earlier comments. I’m so very, very sorry. Praying that her great gift brings you some comfort.

  39. 39
  40. 40

    @Doug R:
    This. They cheered Trump when he said the rich should be taxed more. They cheered him when he said the rich should be taxed less. Most of the time he doesn’t propose anything. They don’t give a fuck. He has delivered the most open hate speech we’ve heard in a long time, and they’re lapping it up.

    Hell, it should have been obvious they didn’t care about issues and policies years ago. They didn’t care jack about the deficit until a black man was spending their money to help other blacks. Dog whistle policies were good while they could get them, but fuck that when Trump is offering the real deal.

    EDIT – @Capri:
    It’s as if those were all excuses for resentful bigots.

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant):
    Take what comfort you can that she has helped others even in passing. I’m sorry. Don’t go too deep in the political weeds for awhile. Rest, and most importantly, take care of yourself.

    …and I’m sorry.

  41. 41
    amk says:

    @different-church-lady:

    This. His and theirs only ‘ideology’.

  42. 42
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant): Ahh, I misunderstood. For some reason I thought this was your mother and that you had to travel for the funeral. In which case, please don’t travel in that manner for a while. But do remember to be good to yourself.

  43. 43
    Pogonip says:

    For those–all two of you–interested in the Pogonip agenda, here it is.

    Tomorrow: overdue haircut. Usual Saturday errands. Cook chicken if sufficiently thawed.

    Sunday: cook the chicken if it wasn’t sufficiently thawed the day before.

    Monday: to dentist about lost filling. Hoping his boat is paid off so he will just re-fill and not push a nice expensive crown instead.

  44. 44
    MomSense says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I’ve said it before here but supporting Trumk is like playing the lottery. The fun is imagining how good your life would be. He’s promising them a beautiful life, winning, prospertity, and a return to a mythological history that was simpler where they could feel special, more secure in their world and more in control of their lives. Then you add that you can say hateful and derogatory things that make you feel superior and it is vey appealing to a certain set of people.

  45. 45
    Schlemazel (parmesan rancor) says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant):
    I had not seen that. My sincerest condolences, i hope you can find peace in remembering the happy times. Take some comfort in knowing she lives on in 3 others.

  46. 46

    @Anoniminous: @Thor Heyerdahl: @Emma: Thanks to you all (and preemptively to everyone), I’m under orders to get some rest and have to log off for now. Talk to you soon.

  47. 47
    jl says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I agree with that. When GOP reactionaries tried to nail Trump when he said single payer worked, Trump didn’t back down, he just said that was obvious that it could work, just go to Europe and look, stupid. Trump of course also said it would never work in the US.

    Trump doesn’t give a fig, and probably a good enough marketer to see through the GOP BS machine and understand what the GOP voters really care about.

    While the GOP is a long con, there is probably enough delusion in the leadership that they thought something would come of their unregulated free market fantasies. Sure, they wanted to grind the faces of their white GOP supporters just a little bit to get them riled up enough to fall for racist and xenophobic BS, but they probably didn’t count on the Walker, Brownback, Jindal experiments to be such complete disasters. Then Snyders threw in his special little contribution. So, they are desperately hoping that pulling the same levers with Jeb, and Chirs and Marco will do the trick. Donner Party conservatism, like compassionate conservatism is a marketing gimmick that only works if there is a bait and switch. the GOP voter doesn’t want to see those goods. Donner Party conservatism may be all that the GOP has to offer even their base now, and it is becoming increasingly difficult to hide. Trump wants to advertise that he is NOT offering Donner Party conservatism.

    Tribalism, racism, xenophobia are more like tools used to distract their rubes. Probably only the Xtianists are really committed to it.

    The real problem for GOP is the contempt for information and critical thought, and faith in a trusted authority figure that they have instilled in their base. What kind of person would follow someone who says:

    ‘ I am very capable of changing to anything I want to change to ‘

    That’s a Trump quote from the clip at the end of AL’s link.

  48. 48
    MomSense says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant):

    What a beautiful way to honor your wife. I’m so moved by your love and devotion. Sending you my sympathy and a big hug.

  49. 49
  50. 50
    SiubhanDuinne, Annoying Scoundrel says:

    @Pogonip:

    A life fraught with incident!!

  51. 51

    @jl:
    Never underestimate the con man’s ability to fall for his own grift, and the rich and powerful’s ability to be just as crazy as the poor and weak. I’m sure there are cynical manipulators in there, but Romney’s 47% speech wasn’t about manipulating the rubes, it was about how odious the Others are.

  52. 52
    Elie says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant):

    Bless you, Ben. My prayers to you… and to the memory and life of your wife.

  53. 53
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant):

    Mrs. Cisco saved three lives. Both kidneys and liver.

    That is awesome. I hope my tired, old body can do that one day, after my wife inevitably kills me. Liver may not be in good shape, but I can give something to help people.

  54. 54
    Anoniminous says:

    The astonishing thing is Trump is only polling 36%. The other part of the ignorant, bigoted, ressentiment fueled GOP base are the 20% religious whack-a-doodle ignorant, bigoted, ressentiment fueled GOP base support Cruz is pulling in.

    I don’t know what “nationalism” has to do with anything.

    When I listen to Trump I’m reminded of the German speechifier who orated “We National Socialists do not want higher bread prices. We National Socialists do not want bread prices to remain the same! We do not want lower bread prices. We want National Socialist bread prices.”

    And the crowd went wild.

  55. 55

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant): I’m so sorry to hear about your wife; what a wonderful legacy she left.

  56. 56
    CaseyL says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant): Oh, god. I didn’t know. My condolences for your loss.

  57. 57
    Doug R says:

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne: It’s the democratic rainbow coalition. NO Democrat has ever won the White House without it. The states Bernie is doing well in are setting records for republican turnout while democratic turnout is down. But those were monochromatic states at least.

  58. 58
    jl says:

    @Capri:

    ” So conservatives are going for Trump because they aren’t actually conservative? ”

    The existence of large numbers of conservatives in the US who want government programs that benefit them cut is a myth promulgated by the Establishment GOP.

    Just like the existence of a large group of moderates who want that is a myth promulgated by the corporate centrists like Bloomberg and Peterson, and various Third Way and No Labels groups.

    Difference is that the GOP has been successful, while the corporatist centrists have been miserable failures.

  59. 59
    Tegdirb says:

    @Tommy: He could tell his bros to lay off John Lewis and point out he doesn’t need their racism either.

    And he could not wait six months to do this.

  60. 60
    gwangung says:

    @Doug R: I’m following a meeting of Sanders with the black community in MN on Twitter. It does not seem to be going well….

  61. 61
    SiubhanDuinne, Annoying Scoundrel says:

    @srv:

    That was nice.

  62. 62
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Tommy:

    But I honestly have to ask what is the dude supposed to do to make you happy?

    Develop some foreign policy chops.

  63. 63
    Felonius Monk says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant): My sincerest condolences. I am so sorry for your loss.

  64. 64

    Spending the weekend in Asheville for a photography workshop. Upgraded to the Nikon D7200 — love it, love it, love it. It’s so nice to have all these settings at my fingertips rather than digging through menus.

  65. 65
  66. 66
    Just One More Canuck says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant): My condolences

  67. 67
    Anne Laurie says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant): My condolences.

    As Joe Biden would say, may the memories soon bring a smile to your lips before they bring a tear to your eyes.

  68. 68
    Felanius Kootea says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant): Condolences on your loss.

  69. 69

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant): I’m so sorry. It takes things a while to settle sometimes. Take care.

  70. 70
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant): I’m so sorry. You’ll be in my thoughts.

  71. 71
    mike in dc says:

    This is blowing up the Internets today.

    Kinda explains why economic populism is in vogue lately. It is actually technically(perhaps not politically) possible to restructure tax incentives and penalties to discourage this sort of corporate disloyalty to productive American employees.

  72. 72
    trollhattan says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant):
    Oh my. Please accept my condolences. Find peace, be well.

  73. 73
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @mike in dc: I’m kind of surprised they didn’t rush the guy making the announcement and tear him limb from limb.

  74. 74
    guachi says:

    @Tommy:

    My gosh can Bernie get a break.

    Saw a transcript of an interview with Sanders that he did with Fox about the immigration bill in 2007. Guess what Sanders didn’t fail to mention? Money in politics (probably from those ebil bankers!). And then he attacked immigrants for taking jobs from Americans.

    I don’t think he can help himself. Sanders is obsessed with money and sees basically everything through that lens.

  75. 75
    Bill E Pilgrim says:

    I thought this article was the best take yet, and put into words the way I pretty much saw it. The gist is that Trump isn’t so much part of the usual propaganda machinery like most Republican politicians, paid pundits, and think tankers are, he’s better seen as a perfect example of their audience. A selected quote from it:

    But Trump does have something very much in common with everybody else. He watches TV. That’s his primary experience with reality, and just like most of his voters, he doesn’t realize that it’s a distorted picture.

    If you got all of your information from TV and movies, you’d have some pretty dumb ideas. You’d be convinced blowing stuff up works, because it always does in our movies. You’d have no empathy for the poor, because there are no poor people in American movies or TV shows – they’re rarely even shown on the news, because advertisers consider them a bummer.

    Politically, you’d have no ability to grasp nuance or complexity, since there is none in our mainstream political discussion.

  76. 76
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    @MomSense: Mini meet up could be in the works!

  77. 77
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA: Next you’ll be lusting for a D810.

  78. 78
    khead says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant):

    Whoa. Very sorry for your loss.

  79. 79
    mike in dc says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Well, that would be ONE kind of strong disincentive…

  80. 80
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): If you refuse to leave when its over, let me know and I’ll get Michelle Fiore to negotiate your egress out of the restaurant.

  81. 81
    ThresherK (GPad) says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant): We wish you the best. Take your time and be elsewhere as needed. It’s not like you’ll go away and in a week all the crazee will run out before you return.

  82. 82
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @mike in dc: If I remember correctly something like that happened in France or Germany a couple of years back. A company announced either a relocation or layoffs and the workers got a hold of the executive making the announcement, ripped his suit off, and put a beating on him. And then there were the workers at that factory and warehouse in Chicago that occupied it and wouldn’t let the stock be moved.

  83. 83
  84. 84
    Felanius Kootea says:

    Infuriating article, How Right Wing Billionaires Infiltrated Higher Education (an excerpt from Jane Meyer’s book, “Dark Money,”) in the Chronicle for Higher Education. It’s behind a paywall. By the way, I didn’t realize that Tom Jones, the leader of the black Cornell students referenced below, was the same Tom Jones who became COO and CFO of TIAA-CREF and now runs a hedge fund. His younger self would not understand how conservative he’s become.

    Excerpts:

    If there was a single event that galvanized conservative donors to try to wrest control of higher education in America, it might have been the uprising at Cornell University on April 20, 1969. That afternoon, during parents’ weekend at the Ithaca, N.Y., campus, some 80 black students marched in formation out of the student union, which they had seized, with their clenched fists held high in black-power salutes. To the shock of the genteel Ivy League community, several were brandishing guns. At the head of the formation was a student who called himself the “Minister of Defense” for Cornell’s Afro-American Society. Strapped across his chest, Pancho Villa-style, was a sash-like bandolier studded with bullet cartridges. Gripped nonchalantly in his right hand, with its butt resting on his hip, was a glistening rifle. Chin held high and sporting an Afro, goatee, and eyeglasses reminiscent of Malcolm X, he was the face of a drama so infamous it was regarded for years by conservatives such as David Horowitz as “the most disgraceful occurrence in the history of American higher education.”

    This is the guy (Olin) who gave us The Bell Curve and other similar hits…

    “The catastrophe at Cornell inspired Olin to take his philanthropy in a bold, new direction,” according to John J. Miller, whose authorized biography, A Gift of Freedom, provides a treasure trove of original research on Olin’s life and legacy. Olin “saw very clearly that students at Cornell, like those at most major universities, were hostile to businessmen and to business enterprise, and indeed had begun to question the ideals of the nation itself,” a memo from his foundation recounts.

    As a result, according to Miller, instead of continuing to direct the bulk of his charitable contributions to hospitals, museums, and other standard patrician causes, as he had in the early years after he set up the John M. Olin Foundation in 1953, Olin embarked on a radical new course. He began to fund an ambitious offensive to reorient the political slant of American higher education to the right.

    His foundation aimed at the country’s most elite universities, the Ivy League and its peers, cognizant that these institutions were the incubators of those who would hold future power. If these young cadres could be trained to think more like him, then he and other donors could help secure the country’s political future. It was an attempted takeover, but instead of waging it with bandoliers and rifles, he chose money as his weapon.

  85. 85
    Doug R says:

    @gwangung: If he eventually gets some kind of breakthrough, it’ll make him damn near unstoppable. Like Propane Jane says, it’s been SIX months and we haven’t seen it yet. Hillary knows how it works.

  86. 86
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    If you refuse to leave when its over, let me know and I’ll get Michelle Fiore to negotiate your egress out of the restaurant.

    She’s pretty unstable, as indicated by the law degree. You’re going to need Graham fils as well.

  87. 87
    chopper says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant):

    oh jesus man, i’m so sorry.

  88. 88
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Felanius Kootea:

    these institutions were the incubators of those who would hold future power

    I thought this happened at Cornell.

    Zing!

  89. 89
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Felanius Kootea: This is not a very well kept secret. The Mercatus Center at George Mason is not just funded by the Kochs, but they have a say in its governance, hiring, tenure, promotion, and firing. And since almost all the Mercatus faculty are also faculty in the Econ department, they control that as well. They’re trying to do the same thing at FSU and a number of other universities. There’s a Philadelphia radio magnate named (I kid you not) Buddy Lee who funds U Penn’s crim program through the Buddy Lee Center of Criminology and Criminal Justice – or whatever its called. He travels with the faculty to all the professional meetings and I would not be surprised to find that he has a say in hiring, firing, tenure, and promotion. He also looks like the Buddy Lee statue from the blue jeans commercial, so there’s some comedic value.

  90. 90
    p.a. says:

    @Felanius Kootea: There was the Powell Memo also.

    Is that the same Olin that sponsors PBS?

  91. 91
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    @Tegdirb: This, especially.
    @Omnes Omnibus: This would be nice is well. OT, when you wandered down from Cowlumbus, did you go to the Hyde Park Graeter’s (the first parlor) and/or see the old place in in Walnut Hills where it was first sold out of a building? Or were you speaking generally of an Ohio store? Pedantic inquiry, of course.

  92. 92
    revenant johnny aquatard says:

    @srv:

    From the ash heaps of these parties, a phoenix will rise to build a new, populist order.

    Dunno if you realize this but that’s also what fascism promises. Roger Griffen identified this myth of rebirth as a core component of fascism.

    It’s just one of those strange ironies that Griffin’s “palingenesis” happens to have “palin” in it.

  93. 93
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @p.a.: Yes. And an endowed chair at West Point too.

  94. 94
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @p.a.:

    There was the Powell Memo also.

    Man, Washington and Lee is getting a lot of bad press tonight on BJ

  95. 95
    Tom Levenson says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant): my people say “may you’ve comforted with the mourners of Jerusalem and Zion.” I say condolences. And applause for Mrs. Cisco’s gifts to strangers. The purest form of kindness.

  96. 96
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): I was incorrectly informed by Columbusites that the Bexley store was the original store. I think they must have meant the first in the Columbus area. I only realized the fraud perpetrated upon me when I did some research after reading your question.

  97. 97
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    @efgoldman: Eventually, but probably not soon. :(
    Mom Sense lives miles from me.

    @Steve in the ATL: Damn, you figured it out.

  98. 98
    Tommy says:

    @guachi: Yeah I can’t argue with that he sees one thing and won’t let it go.

    First off Vermont is a “strange” state in a good way. My best friend in college was from there. We were working on our Phd’s. This was LSU, Baton Rouge, La. in the early 90s. His brother at the time at Texas A&M.

    His wedding I took the train to Brattleboro, VT. His mother ran the Senate in her state. I will never forget a few things. The first is we’re pulling bong hits and his mother comes into the room. I am about to freak out. She could care less and just told us what we needed to do. Bongs hits might have been taken while talking to an adult.

    The wedding happened and it was stunning ……

  99. 99
    msdc says:

    But others probably do still identify as conservative yet have no problem identifying Trump that way too because their definition of conservatism is thin and consists in great part of opposition to the left

    Wow, more than a hundred comments in and nobody has cited Cleek’s Law?

  100. 100
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @msdc: It is baked in.

  101. 101
    p.a. says:

    @Steve in the ATL: You started it 😃

  102. 102
    lurker dean says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant): Deepest condolences, so sorry for your loss.

  103. 103
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: I cheated; I know some Graeters. You simply cannot trust Columbusites. Unless they are my friends; I would not lead you astray.

    @Steve in the ATL: I wonder if that’s why I’m teaching in the psych department…

  104. 104
    cckids says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant): My condolences, I am so sorry for your loss.

  105. 105
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @p.a.: Fair point. One of my friends (a good liberal, of course) is there and talked to Grover Norquist as she wanted to ask him about Burning Man. He said it was one of the three greatest experiences of his life (I assume the other two were watching Reagan get elected and reelected); he likes the whole no-government aspect of it and the whole surviving without money for a week, just cooperative good will. Sounds like a typical libertarian dimwit.

  106. 106
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): So no live stream phone calls trying to coax you out of the restaurant this weekend? I may go into withdrawal without a live stream of someone being coaxed out of someplace they don’t want to leave.

  107. 107
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @p.a.: When did he mention the war?

  108. 108
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    @MomSense: Look me up. FLS, at fuse.

    This weekend won’t work, but I have a girl’s night cocktail date where we’ll close the restaurant. I could patch you in if you asked really nicely.

  109. 109
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):

    You simply cannot trust Columbusites.

    No shit.

  110. 110
    gwangung says:

    @Doug R: Well yeah, but he’s taking opportunity after opportunity and just throwing them away. You do not tell a black community group the country needs reparations for white people, too.

  111. 111
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I could go to a bar and refuse to leave. You’ll pick up my tab, right?

  112. 112
    Mike J says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: I thought they were Columbusinians.

  113. 113
    ruemara says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant): so sorry. My deepest sympathies. Thanks for the generosity towards others.

  114. 114
    pamelabrown53 says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant): @Adam L Silverman:

    Please accept my deepest condolences. May you be cradled with love and light by family and friends.

  115. 115
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Do I know you?

  116. 116
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Mike J: Fuck if I know. I lived there for years and never really cracked the cliques. It is a city where the high school you attended matters well into your 30s.

  117. 117
    debbie says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    The Bexley store opened in what was the first drug store in the area (complete with soda fountain).

  118. 118
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Adam L Silverman: No, but I would be staving off your withdrawal symptoms and I thought you might want to help out. I take it you want me to damage my liver and my bank account. You seem like a total bastard and I withdraw my offer.

    /sob

    ::flounces out::

  119. 119
    Scamp Dog says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant): Good to hear that she had some last contributions to make, but I’m sure it’s still a hard thing to lose her. My condolences.

  120. 120
    ruemara says:

    @gwangung: I saw that statement and could not believe he was that tone deaf. Then I saw the video clip. Oh. Good. Lord. Can someone get Bernie into that how to talk to black people class?

  121. 121
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Sadly, that’s common throughout the state. If someone asks where you went to school, and you answer “undergrad or professional school?” you might discover they really meant high school. It’s quite annoying, though it rarely happens to me these days. Plus, it’s often an attempt to gauge social status – some people ask locals specifically to peg them. I often lie, because both true responses will provoke an undesirable response.

    I introduced myself to a woman and told her I’d gone to school with her brother. She asked, “high school or college.” Her father told her, rather sharply, “law school; she worked at the firm.”

  122. 122
  123. 123
    Redshift says:

    @msdc: Maybe we all thought everyone else had already thought of it? It was certainly my first thought.

  124. 124
    Monala says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant): I’m so sorry. My condolences to you.

  125. 125
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):

    Sadly, that’s common throughout the state. If someone asks where you went to school, and you answer “undergrad or professional school?” you might discover they really meant high school. It’s quite annoying, though it rarely happens to me these days. Plus, it’s often an attempt to gauge social status -some ask locals specifically to peg them.

    Back in Idaho, is the question “which militia do you belong to?”

  126. 126
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): One of my best friends in college was from Bexley; his dad was a partner at VSSP. So I could name drop him with the Bexleyites.

  127. 127
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    Plus, it’s often an attempt to gauge social status -some ask locals specifically to peg them.

    Back in college, we did that to the people from Highland Park in Dallas and Mountain Brook in Birmingham–“oh, isn’t that a *public* school?”

    Wow, I’m starting to get why some people don’t like W&L….

  128. 128
    Redshift says:

    @different-church-lady:

    Completely over-thinking it: they like him because he insults people and blames all woes on brown people. Everything else is unnecessary detail.

    Yeah, but I still think it’s not a bad thing for a True Scotsman to have his bubble burst and realize it’s actually true that a lot of those “conservatives” it there don’t care at all about the things he cares about, they just hate liberals (and more importantly, brown people, even if he won’t admit that to himself yet. Baby steps.)

    Kind of reminds me if the strategy session a couple of years ago where a strategist tried to explain to GOP bigwigs that they shouldn’t make their entire economic message dependent on entrepreneurship, because most people don’t want to be entrepreneurs and business owners, and they just couldn’t believe it.

  129. 129
    mike in dc says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    Hey, I went to Cornell and I hold future power…er, that is, I hope to hold power some time in the distant future…

  130. 130
    Mike in NC says:

    Sorry, but I keep confusing Allahpundit from Instapundit, considering both are extreme right wing pricks.

  131. 131
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    @Steve in the ATL: I thought it might be “are you LDS?” W&L? That’s kind of a shock, I mean, because of the L and all. I was surprised when I read it initially.

    @Omnes Omnibus: Handy up there, I’d imagine. Also I’m guessing your buddy is one of the few tolerable Bexleybred. And if debbie is from there, clearly there’s another.

  132. 132
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): Actually he has gone full on libertarian and I have muted his FB feed.

  133. 133
  134. 134
    debbie says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I grew up in the suburb next door, but I knew a few Vs back in the day.

  135. 135
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @debbie: Reynoldsburg?

    ETA: No, Whitehall?

  136. 136
    debbie says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Eastmoor. Right next door.

  137. 137
    Gex says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant): I’m so sorry to hear of your loss. My heart and thoughts will be with you as you deal with this.

  138. 138
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @debbie: Got it. At least Larry Flynt wasn’t your neighbor. I spent most of my time there living in German Village.

  139. 139
    p.a. says:

    @Steve in the ATL: Your friend could have out-conservatived Grover by asking him about his membership in a Muslim sleeper cell. “Well Grover I heard it on hate radio so it must be true.”

  140. 140
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @p.a.: That would have been beautiful!

  141. 141
    Gex says:

    @gwangung: Holy crap, did he say that?

  142. 142
    debbie says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Great part of town. I’d put Katzinger’s up against any deli in NYC. And the houses are pretty.

  143. 143
    Steve in the ATL says:

    I am still stuck on the on the Malheur armed occupation. Glad the occupation part is over, and I hope that the prosecution of these nutballs has a chilling effect on the movement, and I really hope that these idiots finally learn that the “take land from the federal government” plank in their ideology will result in a “transfer public land to rich people and large corporations who won’t let you graze your cattle on it for 10% of the market rate” reality.

    Good article, if you can get past the “try and” about two thirds of the way through:
    https://www.hcn.org/articles/malheur-occupation-oregon-ammon-bundy-public-lands-essay

  144. 144
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    Happy weekend folks. Steve in the ATL, I hope your friend made a bath tub joke at least. as much as the hate radio sleeper cell report would have been awesomesauce.<- for Omnes.

    @Steve in the ATL: I’m kind of having withdrawal myself, though I try to cope. Thanks for the link. Now I’m really off. And in addition, I’m leaving.

    Please tip generously.

  145. 145
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @debbie: I lived closer to Thurman’s. I was about two blocks from Schiller Park and Easy Street was my local pub.

  146. 146
    PeakVT says:

    …since it would force nationalists to recognize that they can’t win without conservatives any more than conservatives can win without them…

    Seriously not understanding the distinction, but glad that it’s so important it’s worth handing the Presidency to the Dems over.

    Bring on the Republicans in Disarray!

  147. 147
    seaboogie says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant): Sending you love and deep empathy. That will be a lonely coming home, and I hope that you are surrounded by love and comfort from friends and family.

  148. 148
    ruemara says:

    @Gex: he also complained that he said black 50 times, when someone pointed out he kept all lives matter questions they were asking in regard to the black community forum. At this point, I wish I were his advisor on blackness, because he is not being prepped.

  149. 149
    Cacti says:

    At last night’s debate, did Bernie really say that he’d “absolutely” be better for race relations than President Obama, because he’d give jobs to minority youth, rather than tax cuts to billionaires?

    No way. He can’t be that tone deaf.

    Oh shit. He can be.

    Sounds like something Newt Gingrich or Paul Ryan would say.

  150. 150
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    @gwangung:

    You do not tell a black community group the country needs reparations for white people, too.

    There’s something really wrong with him.

    He pulled this shit last night when he said he would be better at race relations than the man who broke the color barrier. It would be like Pete Rose saying he would be better at race relations than Jackie Robinson.

  151. 151
    debbie says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Also nice. Amazing to think that area is in the middle of Cowtown. It’s still doing well. Just wish it was more affordable.

  152. 152
    Cacti says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch:

    He pulled this shit last night when he said he would be better at race relations than the man who broke the color barrier. It would be like Pete Rose saying he would be better at race relations than Jackie Robinson.

    The Bern’s starting to sound like he believes his own white savior hype.

  153. 153
    barbequebob says:

    @Adam L Silverman: went to a Ruby Tuesday’s salad bar two month’s ago, in NJ.

    in terms of what was offered at the salad bar, thought I had gone back in time to the early 1980’s

  154. 154
    Cacti says:

    Black people, stop being unemployed and making white people racist.

    -Bernie Sanders (I-VT)

  155. 155
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch:

    There’s something really wrong with him.

    This isn’t it. I think he is a truly decent person who believes that the fixing economic inequality will fix everything.

  156. 156
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    Chris Rock’s net worth $70,000,000 million dollars. And he gets constantly pulled over by the cops for driving black.

    Chris Rock took a selfie after being pulled over by police while driving Tuesday, marking the third time in seven weeks he’s posted while being stopped by a cop.

    Rock posted the photo to his social media accounts early Tuesday, writing: “Stopped by the cops again wish me luck.” In the shot, the comedian can be seen behind the wheel of a car with blue police lights shining through his rear window.

    Sanders just doesn’t get.

    Worse, it seem like he doesn’t want to get it.

  157. 157
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @debbie: I lived in a shithole to live there. Jimmy from Easy Street opened a new place on High Street. I hope it is doing well as well. I liked Jimmy and George. I’ll tell my mugging story someday. :P

  158. 158
    mclaren says:

    @srv:

    From the ash heaps of these parties, a phoenix will rise to build a new, populist order thousand-year reich.

    There, fixed that for ya.

  159. 159
    ruemara says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: you need to allow that he’s a decent person, with really fantastic views, who also has a massive blind spot on race. Trust me, people who are less willing to make allowances than me have noticed that when he references blacks, he speaks only of jobs & prison. We’re all some characters from Good Times in his head. It’s a more benevolent prejudice that fails to deal with the reality of people as people.

  160. 160
    Truegster says:

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne:
    I think Sanders plan is to ignore the Tea Party babies and maybe pull in some small r-epublicans. There are some conservatives in the rural that also blame a noun, a verb, and wall street( I think some of it might be code for “Jews”, however). There is a populism in his message that crosses party.

  161. 161
    Marc says:

    Do you people realize that you need Sanders supporters in the autumn?

  162. 162
    Cacti says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    This isn’t it. I think he is a truly decent person who believes that the fixing economic inequality will fix everything.

    There is always an easy solution to every human problem – neat, plausible, and wrong.

  163. 163
    p.a. says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch: re:Bernie. I hope no one takes personal offense, I’m 56 and I know my mental processes are not what they were 20~30 years ago, but from my observation of personal acquaintances and family, after about age 65 the fastball goes pretty quick.

    I’m ambivalent about term limits, but a set retirement age may be a good thing for the political and judicial system.

  164. 164
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @ruemara: No argument from me.

  165. 165
    satby says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant): Didn’t know about Mrs. Cisco. I’m so sorry for your loss. Peace to her, and blessings for the good she continues to do even after she’s gone. Take care of yourself Ben.

  166. 166
    Marc says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: I guess that people think that trashing Sanders is magically going to make his supporters switch to Clinton, as opposed to getting angry. The single worst habit that we learned in the online left was the joy of demonizing.

    I see two candidates that I like, either of whom I’d like to see in the White House.

  167. 167
    mclaren says:

    : @Tommy:

    But I honestly have to ask what is [Bernie] supposed to do to make you happy?

    Drive very slowly in an open convertible past the Dallas Book Despository while a dedicated, creative and industrious ex-Marine Corps marksman lines up with a Mannlicher-Carcano rifle using a telescopic sight.

    We will surely all express our total amazement when the inevitable Lone Sniper strikes…

  168. 168
    amk says:

    @Marc: and vice versa?

  169. 169
    Genine says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant):

    I’m so sorry to hear about your wife. My condolences to you and your loved ones.

  170. 170
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:

    @Cacti:

    LOL. Stolen.

  171. 171
    Mike J says:

    @p.a.:

    but from my observation of personal acquaintances and family, after about age 65 the fastball goes pretty quick.

    My aunt was hospitalized this week. My mother spoke to her on the phone yesterday. Aunt was convinced that tomorrow they were going to put her down. Convinced everyone is out to kill her. No idea what triggered it.

  172. 172
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Marc: Do you people realize that if Bernie wins, you need Clinton supporters in the autumn?

    Look, he isn’t good with racial issues. I know he marched and organized for civil rights. I don’t think he has a racist bone in his body, but I also don’t think that he gets modern racial issues. I am fish-belly white, but I’ll just defer to ruemara here.

    @Marc: Where did I demonize anyone?

  173. 173
    Cacti says:

    @Marc:

    Do you people realize that you need Sanders supporters in the autumn?

    Do you honestly believe that anything anyone says here has the power to sway a national election?

    This is just a place where politics nerds come to puff out our chests and piss in the wind.

  174. 174
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    “Because what we will do is say, instead of giving tax breaks to billionaires, we are going to create millions of jobs for low-income kids so they’re not hanging out on street corners,”

    Obama didn’t give any tax breaks to billionaires. He ended the Bush tax cuts for the rich. He raised the capital gains tax from 15% to 24%. He raised the Medicare tax on rich people 4.7% and cut deductions their deductions.

    He always attacks this fictional strawman of Obama. It’s one thing for idiots of Fox and Hate radio to be clueless, but he’s a sitting Senator who voted for the bill.

  175. 175
    Jim, Foolish LIteralist says:

    @Marc: I think you’re overestimating the readership of these threads, as well as the persuasive power of prim sanctimony.

  176. 176
    Cacti says:

    @the Conster, la Citoyenne:

    If you mean the neat, plausible, and wrong one, that’s H.L. Mencken.

  177. 177
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Marc:

    I guess that people think that trashing Sanders is magically going to make his supporters switch to Clinton, as opposed to getting angry.

    Normally, the projection comes from rightwingers. All the hate I’m seeing is coming from Bernie bros, not Hillary supporters. Any Bernie supporter who’s not an idiot will vote for Hillary if she’s the nominee. Any who doesn’t isn’t a leftie at all.

  178. 178
    mclaren says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch:

    There’s something really wrong with [Sanders].

    Ah, now we get to it!

    Yes indeedy, Bernie Sanders clearly needs some serious stereotaxic surgery to burn out the brain areas causing his severe mental problems. Carve out a few hundred cubic milliliters of frontal lobe tissue, insert cortical electrodes to stimulate the amygdala and thalamus unctrontrollably, and Bernie Sanders will be ready for polite society. No more of that annoying social justice twaddle or proposing insane notions like going back to the tax rates and antitrust polices we had under Dwight Eisenhower.

    And the best part of it all is that Bernie might even be able to count all the way up to five after the procedures are completed.

    Bernie Sanders, mentally ill focus of evil in the modern world and Great Satan of politics. It’s reassuring to learn that the Hillary supporters haven’t lost their moorings in reality just because she’s gotten clobbered in two Democratic primaries in a row.

  179. 179
    Marc says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: If that was all it was (e.g. ruemara), no worries. Instead we have stream of consciousness Sanders-as-demon stuff. Whatever – I guess there is a crowd here now enjoying the five minute hate. Outa here.

  180. 180
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant): My condolences.

  181. 181
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Mike J:

    My aunt was hospitalized this week. My mother spoke to her on the phone yesterday. Aunt was convinced that tomorrow they were going to put her down. Convinced everyone is out to kill her. No idea what triggered it.

    Fox News? Rush Limbaugh? Sean Hannity?

  182. 182
    mclaren says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    All the hate I’m seeing is coming from Bernie bros, not Hillary supporters.

    But of course. Whenever we hear “There’s something wrong with [Sanders],” this is meant as a compliment.

  183. 183
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:

    @Marc:

    Do you people realize that you need Sanders supporters in the autumn?

    Which ones of us are “you people” bro?

  184. 184
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    @Marc: Do you ever tell the DudeBros attacking Blacks and women on social media for daring not to support Che to step on the brakes?

  185. 185
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Marc: Oh for fuck’s sake. We also have people who come in and say the same kind of shit about Clinton. Learn to tune out the morons.

  186. 186
    Cacti says:

    @Marc:

    Don’t go away mad.

  187. 187
    p.a. says:

    @Mike J: I’m sorry, and I’m not being flippant, but does she watch Fox news? My wingnut cousins, in their 70’s, went on a Caribbean cruise and never got off the boat from fear. They could have gone to Chichen Itza or Tulum! We go to a game dinner every year, and they drive 10 miles around to avoid a neighborhood that is sketchy but not dangerous in broad daylight; they think there’s running gun battles in the streets.

  188. 188
    mclaren says:

    @ruemara:

    you need to allow that she’s a decent person, with really fantastic views, who also has a massive blind spot on race. Trust me, people who are less willing to make allowances than me have noticed that when Hillary references blacks, she speaks only of jobs & prison. We’re all some characters from Good Times in her head. It’s a more benevolent prejudice that fails to deal with the reality of people as people.

    Yes…yes that works equally well for Hillary, doesn’t it?

    Let’s face facts…both Democratic presidential candidates are rich white people only talk about black folks (when they talk about ’em at all, which ain’t much) in terms of jobs and prison.

    That’s the reality of fucking white America in 2016. I don’t like it, but we have the candidates we have and the Democratic party we have. Where are all the black Democratic National Committee chairpersons? There aren’t any. Where are all the black senators? Tim Scott and Cory Booker, and that’s it. 2 out of 100.

    America is a deeply racist country and that’s the reality we have to deal with. Any Democratic presidential candidates in the near future are likely to be rich and white and not have a whole fucking lot of experience with the problems of black people. So let’s stop talking as though this is some unique issue affecting only Bernie Sanders.

  189. 189
    Renie says:

    @Steve in the ATL: that essay was a powerful piece of writing. thanks for posting it

  190. 190
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @mclaren: There are criticisms of Bernie that are fair, such as his confusion on race issues and his pro-gun votes. Likewise, there are criticisms of Hillary that are fair, such as her pro-war vote and her closeness with Wall Street. But what I get from the posters here is that while many prefer Hillary, all of them will vote for Bernie without any hesitation if he is the nominee. many of our new Bernie-centric friends, however, display more of a Bernie-or-nothing mentality, which is counterproductive. Either Hillary or Bernie will govern much closer to the way that Hillbots and/or Berniebros want than any Republican, so you are hurting yourself if you don’t vote or vote R.

  191. 191
    David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch says:

    Domenica Stone
    ‏@domenicaxx66xx

    @Russian_Starr he just said his 1 trillion $ plan to lift up the country wasn’t only reparations it was all inclusive.

    Retweets
    2
    Likes
    3

    6:24 PM – 12 Feb 2016

    He says his proposed infrastructure bill are in reality reparations and they should go to both decedents of slaves and slave owners? [Jaw drops open]

    Yᴏᴜɴɢ Hᴜsᴛʟᴜʜ ‏@YoungHustluh Feb 10

    Do white people get #Reperations from black africans for being slaves for 300 years?

    Good question.

  192. 192
    Ruckus says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    From my experience living in the Columbus area, your HS is important for your entire life and falls into second place only if you attended OS. That makes you. After that I think it’s against the law to ever leave.

  193. 193
    mclaren says:

    @Mike J:

    My aunt was hospitalized this week. My mother spoke to her on the phone yesterday. Aunt was convinced that tomorrow they were going to put her down. Convinced everyone is out to kill her. No idea what triggered it.

    Was it on a Tuesday?

    Ever since Obama put the ACA through, you know, Tuesdays are when the hospitals burn the cripples and terminally ill and gypsies and homosexuals. Those pesky death panels.

    You really have to stay away from the crematoria behind the hospitals ever since Obamacare, the ash coming from the chimneys could choke a medium-size horse.

  194. 194
    Mary G says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant): I hope you are getting some rest and won’t see this, but I am so sorry for your loss. She saved three other people,what a gift you gave.

  195. 195
    mclaren says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    many of our new Bernie-centric friends, however, display more of a Bernie-or-nothing mentality…

    Don’t know where you’re getting that. I’m about as gung-ho pro-Bernie as anyone here, and I will crawl over broken glass to eagerly vote for Hillary if she is the Democratic nominee.

    And as far as I’ve heard, that’s the attitude among all the Bernie supporters I know, all the Bernie supporters I’ve encountered phone-banking, and all the Bernie supporters I’ve seen making posts here on this forum.

    Can you give some specific citations of actual posts where Sanders supporters said on this forum that they won’t vote for Hillary if she’s the nominee?

    I’ve heard some third-hand gossip that “young people say it’s Bernie or nothing,” but that’s just hearsay with not a shred of evidence to back it up.

    I honestly can’t recall a Democratic election where everyone was holding hands and singing “cumbaya” as much as this one. That’s why we’re going to win this election.

  196. 196
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Ruckus: Yep. For a city as large as it is, it is stunningly parochial. Because I was there for law school and had a connection to “posh” Columbus, I was seen as marginally acceptable, but not really a member of the club. Weird town.

  197. 197
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch:

    I just have to say I LOL at your nym every.single.time.

  198. 198
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant):

    I’m so sorry. I haven’t been around as much, so I hadn’t heard the sad news.

  199. 199
    Ruckus says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    When I first moved there from LA I thought it was nice. Housing a whole lot cheaper but so was the average pay. After maybe a year it started to wear. Fortunately I traveled more than 6 months a year and then decided that moving away would be a very sane thing. Never regretted that decision.

  200. 200
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Ruckus: It is a very, very big small town.

    ETA: The High Street corridor is interesting, but once you get six blocks away, the city gets small town fast.

  201. 201
    scav says:

    Generally, a “you people” tucked into a statement rather indicates an adversarial stance, a lack of common cause / feeling of underlying fellowship as well as that slight sneer of superiority. Conversational caltrops, but hey, amusement on the interwebs.

  202. 202
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Steve in the ATL: I’ll have some updates over the weekend. I’ve got the charging document for Cliven saved as a pdf. There are four currently unindicted co-conspirators in it that it references being indicted in Oregon. Three of them are Ammon and Ryan Bundy and Ryan Payne. Not sure who the fourth one is, but its probably Pete Santilli – apparently he was foaming at the mouth insane at the Bundy Ranch standoff. Also, the crazy sovereign citizen common law grand jury judge from Florida has issued a writ or something declaring Grant County Sheriff Palmer sheriff for life (King of Grant County). And he’s issued an indictment. Mrs. Hammond has made a statement that this isn’t over because her husband and son are still unjustly imprisoned. And the Pacific Patriots Network are a wee but put out because Harney County Executive Judge Grasty told them to pound sand in his reply to the list of demands they sent in.

  203. 203
    mclaren says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch:

    Obama didn’t give any tax breaks to billionaires.

    Better be careful about that one.

    First, Bernie Sanders doesn’t mean Obama when he says “we give tax breaks to billionaires,” he means “the U.S. government.”

    Does Barack Obama preside over the U.S. government?

    Yes?

    Okay, then — does the U.S. government currently give massive tax breaks to billionaire agribusiness farmers? Yes it does. Does the U.S. government currently give 600 million dollars of tax breaks to Exxon-Mobil, one of the most profitable corporations in the world that made 71 billion dollars in 2011? Yes it does.

    Now ask yourself: what marginal tax rate does Exxon Mobil pay on its earnings? 13 percent. Are you aware that a self-employed single individual pays a self-employment (substitute for FICA) tax of 13.3% before paying state and federal taxes?

    What was billionaire Mitt Romney’s marginal tax rate in the last year he reported his taxes publicly? It was 13%.

    That’s what Bernie Sanders is talking about.

    The whole U.S. tax setup is massively unfair. It is horribly tilted toward the wealthy and it crushes ordinary people — especially self-employed ordinary people. A self-employed person who has to pay self-employment tax + state + federal tax can easily wind up paying 51% of their income in taxes, while a billionaire winds up paying 13%.

    If you don’t think this is why America is in a deep deep deep shithole of trouble with no money for infrastructure and no money for social programs and no money for higher education and no money for federal job training or federal daycare programs or federal health care programs, then you need to think again. Because this is exactly why America is broke and there’s no money for any of that stuff.

    There was a shit-ton of money for all that stuff back before 1980 when Ronald Reagan slashed the top marginal tax rate down to 28% and gave a boatload of tax loopholes and corporate welfare perks for billionaires.

    You need to wake up and smell the latte, buckaroo.

  204. 204
    ruemara says:

    @Marc: I’m sorry. I was unaware repeating verbatim what he’s said is trashing him.

  205. 205
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @ruemara: Marc is very sensitive. Be nice. He might bruise.

  206. 206
    glory b says:

    @Tommy: of course it was. you were high.

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    Mike J says:

    @p.a.: This was beyond just normal old white people fear and into the territory of psychotic break. She had a kidney infection with a high temp and this followed.

  208. 208
    ruemara says:

    @mclaren: when Hillary was bullshitting about hard working white people, she lost my support. She has a consistent record of mostly good and some very bad acts. When she has the temerity to attend a black community forum and say Latinos and whites need reparations too, I will be all over that hot mess. But it’s Mr. Revolutionary, the heroes of civil rights, sounding like the most textbook example of liberal condescension and the general academic experience of “equality” I have ever seen. So, take a few million and buy a stadium of seats. Bernie needs to adjust faster or he won’t go much farther. Killer Mike & Cornell West can’t vote for all blacks.

  209. 209
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    OT: Since it dropped, I have had an almost obsessive thing for Formation.

  210. 210
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    Being this is an open thread, on my last trip to Costco, I saw some pho and decided to pick up a package and see if the Mrs and I would like it. It was yum. Gonna get some more next time.🙂

  211. 211
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:

    @scav:

    Yup. “you people” reeks of privileged entitlement, dismissive of all of Hillary and Obama’s hard work like there’s nothing to learn from the two most admired, accomplished people in the world. Bernie will figure it all out, because everyone knows that a 74 year old guy can change everything by himself, because Bernie.

  212. 212
    Adam L Silverman says:

    Just put a nice clean open thread up to get you all through the late night/early morning.

  213. 213
    Steeplejack says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant):

    So sorry to hear about your wife. My prayers are with you.

  214. 214
    mclaren says:

    @ruemara:

    Well, howdy doody, folks! Let’s all repeat verbatim:

    “America needs a more assertive foreign policy.” — Hillary Clinton (source: “The critical foreign policy debate that America needs to have,” Washington Post, 10 September 2015)

    “Bashing the bankers is unproductive, and it’s got to stop.” — Hillary Clinton, speech to Goldman Sachs, 2013 (Source: “Why Liberal Democrats Are Skeptical of Hillary Clinton, in One Paragraph,” The Atlantic magazine, 12 December 2013)

    “In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security.” — Hillary Clinton, October 10, 2002

    “The last time I actually drove a car myself was 1996.” — Hillary Clinton (source: “Hillary Clinton: Last time I drove was 1996,” The Washington Post, 27 January 2014)

    Two can play at that exact quote game, buckaroo.

  215. 215
    mclaren says:

    @ruemara:

    No arguments from me on this point. Both Hillary and Bernie need to sharpen up and stop sounding like rich fucking entitled white people. And they both need to do it toot sweet.

    The good news is that folks like Ta-Nehisi Coates are not-so-gently pushing Hillary and Bernie in that direction.

  216. 216
    NotMax says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA

    The one glaring negative about Costco (at least here, it may differ on the mainland) is that there’s little assurance something you found last time will be there next time. Or show up ever again.

    Still, it’s where I do 95% of my grocery shopping.

  217. 217
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @mclaren: You miss, as usual, the point. Quoting someone is not trashing that person. ruemara did not trash Sanders, nor did you trash Clinton assuming your quotations were accurate.

  218. 218
    the Conster, la Citoyenne says:

    @mclaren:

    Every white person needs to stop sounding like fucking entitled white people. Oligarchs count on white people racism to cement their grip. If you want to dismantle the oligarchy, dismantle racism first.

  219. 219
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @efgoldman: Prove to me that mclaren is over 35.

  220. 220
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @NotMax: Gawd this is so true, they had a garlic chicken and noodles dish there and they only had it for a few months. We absolutely loved it, and now it’s gone.😭

    (I did check the manufacture’s website and they no longer make the “club” size of the garlic chicken, though I’ve been unable to find the “non-club” size in our local markets.)

  221. 221
    gwangung says:

    @mclaren: This is not a game. These are peoples’ lives. Don’t excuse Sanders’ major blunder today. The black community he talked to tonight have aright to be majorly pissed.

  222. 222
    Kropadope says:

    @gwangung: Why, what did he actually say? I’ve been through this thread and haven’t been able to find a direct quote.

  223. 223
    mclaren says:

    @gwangung:

    Please don’t tell me whether an off the cuff remark by someone who campaigns 24-7 is a “major blunder.” Also, you need to get a grip and figure out whether disproportionately improverished black single monthers and unemployable black young males will be better off under a president fiercely committed to reducing economic inequality, or under a president who is vomiting out the same-old same-old Clintonian Republican-lite triangulation tinker-around-the-edges stuff as a solution to our problems.

  224. 224
    mclaren says:

    @Kropadope:

    Nobody can find the specific Bernie quote because it probably doesn’t exist…just like those “numbers on Bernie’s Medicare-for-all plan” that allegedly “don’t add up” actually DO add up.

    “In Fact, Argue Experts, Sanders’ Medicare-for-All Numbers “Do Add Up”

  225. 225
    Anne Laurie says:

    @Mike J:

    She had a kidney infection with a high temp and this followed.

    For some reason medics have never adequately explained for me, kidney issues can mess with your brains out of all proportion to their “seriousness”. (Even bladder infections tend to make both people & pets weirdly snappy and paranoid.) Ambient Fox News doesn’t help, but once she’s cleared out the infection, her temperament may well improve to match.

  226. 226
    Monala says:

    @mclaren: maybe there are source articles that say more than the liked one does, because the experts quoted basically say, “the numbers add up because other countries make it work.” They don’t address how to make it work in our country.

  227. 227
    cokane says:

    trump really is going to be a gift to the democrats. this is why i don’t buy bernie-is-unelectable think pieces. dems are going beat trump if he’s the guy.

  228. 228
    Frivolous says:

    Deep condolences and sympathies to Ben Cisco.

  229. 229
  230. 230
    moderateindy says:

    @mclaren: I honestly don’t understand black people’s love for the Clintons. His administration’s economic policies did them no favors. His policies that helped fill the jails with young black men has helped to destroy black communities. His welfare reform push made life harder for many poor people, including those in the African American community. His push to pass NAFTA resulted in many decent jobs that benefitted urban communities to be shipped elsewhere. Can anyone name any legislation Bill or Hillary championed that was specifically targeted towards making the black population’s lives better? Feeling your pain ain’t the same thing as trying to heal your pain.
    Someone here actually suggested that we need to fix racism first before economic injustice. I actually laughed out loud at the stupidity of the idea. How exactly does one go about “fixing ” racism? Please suggest some kind of workable legislation, that will magically stop people from being racist? Most gov’t policies that can mitigate racism are already in place. Doing things that help eliminate economic inequality will in fact have a huge impact on poor black communities. They won’t do anything that will destroy racism, but can you give me a single poicy proposal from Hillary that will seriously improve the plight of Black folk?
    Also keep in mind that Hilz has a very cozy relationship with some of those in the private prison business.

  231. 231
    magurakurin says:

    @David 🍁Canadian Anchor Baby🍁 Koch:

    Worse, it seem like he doesn’t want to get it.

    He’s 74 he’s not going to have any sort of epiphany like change in thought. He is what he is, and he will be that until he dies. Which judging by how he looked and sounded at the debate might be before the election in November. I’m not sure Bernie is going to make it all the way through the campaign. But what can we do, it’s either him or Clinton and each of us only have one vote to influence the choice. He’s not looking too good though lately.

  232. 232
    magurakurin says:

    @Marc: I’m voting for the nominee. It’s on them if they choose not to vote or vote for someone else. And if the election in November is to be decided by some dumb ass shit some of us miscreants on this blog say…well, then the world is just fucked from the git go anyway.

  233. 233
  234. 234
    Doug R says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Team red bodysuit.

  235. 235
  236. 236
    NotoriousJRT says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant):
    I am so very sorry for your loss. My best energy goes out to you.

  237. 237
    Big Picture Pathologist says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    Rest assured that info will be acted upon (assuming the store close to me has it).

  238. 238
    Big Picture Pathologist says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant):

    I wouldn’t be here if someone hadn’t done the same thing for me your wife did for those other people. Deepest condolences to you and sincere thanks to her for her selflessness.

  239. 239
    Applejinx says:

    Yeah, the trouble with Bernie saying ‘white people need reparations too’ (if he even DID say that, which I won’t believe secondhand from blogposters but could picture him saying) is this:

    He’d be saying, ‘everybody is now a slave to the wealthy, it’s just the same, the rest of America has JOINED you in being maltreated’

    Whereupon black people say basically ‘fuck you, are you completely crazy?’

    And they’d be right, because reparations is talk about payback for truly heinous acts that LED to the second-or-third-class condition that, sure enough, hispanics and whites now also share in a colorblind injustice.

    Reparations is a special case. It’s so special that it may be impossible to do: it’s sure as FUCK impossible to do with things as they stand, and half the country wanting to herd differently-colored people into camps and/or deport them.

    It is NOT the same as the 0.001% seizing power and bringing everybody down to the status of economic serfdom, that came later and the current installment of that movement got going long after the legal basis for slavery was discredited. We have new forms of injustice now and they’re not the same.

    Bernie’s made me sad over this, though props I guess for not trying to triangulate or bullshit the black audience. He’s not going to lie to you, guys, he just doesn’t understand: and when he does understand, he might not agree with all your ideas. That’s just how he’s going to be and if he doesn’t agree with you he will say so, no matter who he’s in front of.

    Make a case for how only blacks and not his constituency need economic relief in the form of reparations, if you can. He’s telling you that whites have JOINED blacks, awful recently, in being completely stifled because now it’s only money and nothing else, money alone is privilege. It’s obviously not true but there’s more truth to it than people are willing to admit.

    Something I’ve noticed myself is that it ain’t just white male-ness: if you are TALL and stand up straight, you get to pull rank on even other white males much less women and so on. It’s not that you get to overrule your boss, but that people automatically look to you, or look at you to confirm what the boss said, underscore it, and that’s very effective. It’s because we’re pink animals with instincts for social behavior.

    Do we have reparations for short people because of this ridiculous, unjustified unfairness?

  240. 240
    Kathleen says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant): My deepest condolences.

  241. 241
    Immanentize says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant): I am very sorry for your loss. As you hint, the death of one so close and loved leaves a persistent space that sometimes one might stare at or at other times only glimpse sideways. My cousin was a liver transplant recipient and for his (extended) life I thank you both. And as someone above said, please take time to take care of yourself.

  242. 242
    Denali says:

    @Ben Cico (onboard the Defiant)

    I am so sorry for your loss.

  243. 243
    WaterGirl says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant): I’m so very sorry. Such a cruel loss, especially after everything she’s been through.

    Peace to soothe you, grace to hold you, love to comfort you.

  244. 244
    Johnnybuck says:

    @Monala: Assuming the vast majority of American’s even want single payer socialist medicine. I have my doubts.

  245. 245
    Matt says:

    TBH, I think this is the endgame of the Southern Strategy – the high-level GOP wheels have entirely forgotten what the underlying pitch behind the whole “small government” charade and convinced themselves the base really *does* want those policies. Meanwhile, the base is still the same frothy mix of would-be theocrats, racists, and people who’d burn the whole country down just to lower their own tax rate.

  246. 246
    No One You Know says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant): That’s inspiring, to give even at the end. My deep respect attends my sympathy and condolences.

  247. 247
    Steeplejack says:

    @Germy:

    Huh. I’ve been seeing Sue Johnston a lot lately on one of the lesser PBS stations here, on reruns of a British police show called Waking the Dead. She plays a profiler.

    I wonder if she was a leggy model bird.

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