Interesting piece on the NH college kids who are feeling the Bern:
Twenty-three minutes into his typically rambling, hourlong stump speech in the arena here, at a private liberal-arts college on the Massachusetts border—after he had decried the Koch brothers and the prescription-drug companies, after he had accused Wall Street of bribing its way to deregulation, after he had called out the corporate media and the political establishment—Bernie Sanders turned to the bleachers behind him, which were filled with college students waving blue signs and chanting his name.
A sly, unusual smile crossed his face. “I feel like a rock-n-roll star!” he exclaimed, taking off his jacket and tossing it to a startled youth behind him. He pantomimed tearing off his sweater, too, prompting a fresh chant of “Ber-nie! Ber-nie!” Then he grinned sheepishly. “All right, nothing else is coming off,” he said, and continued to the next topic—the sins of Wal-Mart.
The kids are for Bernie.
In Iowa, where Sanders came just a few delegates short of the supposed front-runner, Hillary Clinton, he won a staggering 84 percent of the voters under 30. Just as important, he got them to vote—they made up an unusually large 18 percent of the electorate. A recent New Hampshire poll had him taking 87 percent of the youth vote in the Granite State.
In general, they seem like decent kids who just want a fair shake:
The kids are earnest and well-meaning and sweet. They come to see Sanders in couples, leaning on each other’s shoulder, wearing matching pot-themed T-shirts (“KEEP CALM AND BERN ONE”). They just want everyone’s lives to be better.
“I try to get people to recycle, because I care about what happens to the earth,” said Nicole Rode, a junior biology major, who wishes she could stop having political arguments on Facebook but can’t help herself. “I hate water bottles—it’s just pollution! I don’t identify with a religion. I care about the earth more than anything imaginary.”
I wish we could tap this energy for the state and local elections. That’s the kind of excitement I had (as a distinctly non-kid) for Obama.
Mai.naem.mobile
They can vote for whomever they want as long as they actually show up and vote every election.
John Cole
@Mai.naem.mobile: Yep.
Brachiator
The UK Daily Mail reports that Officially Smoking Hot Emily Ratajkowski is feeling the Bern.
Sweet Mother of God.
Also, now that we know that Bernie had a 60s love child, he should start rocking a Ben Franklin vibe. This will make him cooler than cool. It will make him ice cold.
More seriously, it would be good if Clinton could find a way to generate more enthusiasm with The Young. And she needs to knock off the Old Biddy finger wagging surrogates bashing young women for not feeling the Hil.
FlipYrWhig
@Mai.naem.mobile: This. I’m not quite sure how having Bernie Sanders as President would go very far towards accomplishing anything related to water bottles or weed, but if having Bernie Sanders in the race means that people who care about water bottles and weed make their presence felt in the American body politic, maybe eventually politics will have to come up with something to say to them rather than to the people who care about anal sex and Benghazi and old people’s medicine.
schrodinger's cat
Have you taken over as the Bernie Cheerleader-in-chief, from the blog Hillary? In that case you are missing a sentence at the end equating Hillary with the witchiest witch to have ever witched.
Mnemosyne
@Brachiator:
The Old Biddy Brigade was one of the things that made people run towards Obama in the last election — Geraldine Ferraro (to name just one) really embarrassed herself.
cmorenc
@Mai.naem.mobile:
THIS EXACTLY. They need to absorb the crucial insight that sitting on their ass on election day because either: a) none of the candidates are pure enough for them; b) system’s corrupt, so it won’t really make a difference if they vote anyway; b) the one candidate they could get behind lost in the primaries – effectively defaults control of elections and government to the very sort of people who can do them real harm. AND: the corollary, don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good (or at least the enemy of just-barely ok vs really bad).
schrodinger's cat
@Mnemosyne: I agree, what Steinem and Albright said was sexist in the extreme. It was an own goal for the Hillary campaign.
Linda Featheringill
To quote Reich: “We have to try.”
And to steal a line from the Obama campaign: “Yes, we can.”
Brachiator
@Mnemosyne:
This also created unnecessary bitterness.
I was really surprised to see Team Clinton make this mistake again so early with the comments from Steinem and other surrogates about how young women were either too stupid to know how to vote or had a special obligation to support Hillary.
p.a.
My first Presidential vote was for John Anderson (I knew my vote wouldn’t contribute to Carter losing the state). Sayles Hall full for his campus visit, speakers had to be set up outside for the crowd filling the green. It was an EVENT!
Cat48
I really hope my daughter is not denigrating an 81 yr woman, but if that turns Bernie folks on, ?? She was on a damn comedy show. Whatever
John Cole
@schrodinger’s cat: Jesus. This was hardly cheerleading. I just want these kids to vote in the state and local elections, ffs.
FlipYrWhig
@Brachiator: Are they “surrogates” or are they just supporters saying some shit to rally their side, or just off the top of their heads? I really hate the “surrogate” stuff.
Cacti
@schrodinger’s cat:
And if so, what is Hillary Rettig’s purpose on the front page? Nauseating vegan recipes?
Neldob
As they pass 80 years the girls just want to have fun. They are totally projecting themselves onto the youngers, goddess bless them. But, yeah, ooooops.
BGinCHI
Amazing to me that “Rock the Vote” failed but an old socialist succeeds.
Maybe there is hope for this country.
Thoroughly Pizzled
I just hope that us young’uns don’t get into the “Bernie or nothing” mentality. His implying that the rest of Washington is bought and paid for can easily lead to that.
p.a.
@Brachiator:
I am sadly not surprised. Remember 2008? Cue the Denny Green “they are who we thought they are” video.
That organization better get straight before the general. They must not rely on a sense of election entitlement and Rethug self-destruction.
FlipYrWhig
@BGinCHI: Yeah, I don’t really understand how cultivating the youth vote or attention to young people’s issues would have to be linked to a presidential campaign, especially considering BLM and Occupy’s decidedly different approach, but maybe it does?
rikyrah
There is the pesky problem that he doesn’t relate to the actual BASE of the Democratic Party..
but, yeah…if you can get past THAT…
He’s the future..
………………………………………..
Bernie Sanders is the future of the Democratic Party
Updated by Matthew Yglesias on February 9, 2016, 8:00 a.m. ET
Whether or not Bernie Sanders wins in New Hampshire, or wins the Democratic nomination outright, he’s already won in another, perhaps more important way: His brand of politics is the future of the Democratic Party.
Sanders is the overwhelming choice of young voters, scoring a staggering 84 percent of voters under 30 in the Iowa caucuses and projected to do better in New Hampshire.
Any young and ambitious Democrat looking at the demographics of the party and the demographics of Sanders supporters has to conclude that his brand of politics is extremely promising for the future. There are racial and demographic gaps between Clinton and Sanders supporters, but the overwhelming reality is that for all groups, the young people are feeling the Bern.
Chyron HR
“Sounds like Springfield’s got a discipline problem.”
“Maybe that’s why we beat them at football nearly half the time.”
Miesekatze
If love to see hard evidence that people voted for Obama in 2008 because of something Ferraro said.
TallPete
OT: very funny – but not hysterical –Full Frontal on Bush-mentum happening – or not – in NH.
schrodinger's cat
I have seen this movie before and it always ends badly for the liberals, progressives or whatever else we may want to call the left of center folks. Bernie’s goals are lofty but his math doesn’t add up.
NR
@Thoroughly Pizzled: You know he’s far from the only person to voice that sentiment, right?
Jim, Foolish LIteralist
Where was he in 2010 and 2114? There are a lot of 19, 20, and 21 year-olds in that article, and more than a few who are 25 or 26. Their participation is the question left unasked.
Steinem’s joke shocked me, I’m not a Steinem scholar but it seems like the kind of thing she fought against her whole career. Albright was in every way about as radical as grilled cheese and tomato soup. I’m betting she hasn’t been on a campaign trail since ’08, when that was a big applause line.
FlipYrWhig
@rikyrah:
I think we need to keep track of what we’re measuring. We tend to slide around as though these categories are interchangeable, but it’s not obviously true that by examining trends among Democrats… who turned out… in Iowa and New Hampshire… we can draw particularly definitive conclusions about Democrats in the future.
Furthermore, we’re, what, two years out from nutbar Joni Ernst getting elected in Iowa, even after Obama made his bones by winning the caucuses and then won the state twice? What happened to all the excited young liberal Democrats then?
ellennelle
yup.
that’s the kind of CAN-do spirit that will get us out of a rut.
goblue72
@Cacti: Her purpose is to annoy the piss out of you. She’s doing a fantastic job. Hope she keeps it up.
John Cole
@Cacti: Hissssss
goblue72
I’m sure all those college students are just misogynistic Berniebros.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
That America ad gets on my last nerve. It’s like something the National Socialists would have made in the Rhineland if there had been TV – lots of smiling white faces in little white towns with little parks and little white steeples, with white farmers and verdant hills rolling away into the distance where you just know only white people live. If I was a Latino in LA or a black parent in Cleveland, I’d wonder what the fuck all these Bernfeelers are feeling, exactly?
Brachiator
@John Cole:
Mid term elections, state and local elections are often boring for all but the most committed voter. Sadly, that’s just how it is.
Applejinx
Rambling stump speech? Bah. I like it more than this reporter, obviously :)
And hell yeah we can get the kids involved but it will have to be through Bernie’s organization. You know why? Because I’m a freakin’ old(ish) fart and worked for Obama twice and I TRIED to find out how to volunteer for the Dems in the midterms, and there was nothing going on at all.
We have to, HAVE to build a better system. All the youngs in the campaign office are talking about it. To have the Democrats go dead in the midterms is not an option anymore. If they won’t get it together enough to support more than personality-based presidential popularity contests then we will. Under their name, or under a Socialist banner (or both).
Even if this election gets all fucked up I know we can still do better just by rallying under the Bernie banner, and that’ll make at least SOMETHING happen for the midterms and down-ticket elections. We have to do what the rightwingers did but for the hard left, and this is what it looks like when that starts to happen.
Cat48
@rickyrah Theyre working hard in SC to demonize Clinton & Obama bc of incarceration., etc. Obama didnt get it done & Clinton is responsible for everyone in jail. Bernie voted for the crime bill so their basically lying to all. I’m not looking forward to the shitstorm when they all hit the state. I miss Obama.
Kay
It goes up and down, younger voter turnout, and that’s just presidential– not even state and local.
It really tanked between 1992 thru 2000 and then there was an upswing starting in 2004 including 2008 but dropping off in 2012.
Applejinx
Some store in Keene is giving away free cookies to anyone coming in with a Bernie sticker who voted :)
Betty Cracker
@Brachiator: It did create bitterness — I remember that too. Ferraro was a disaster on the stump and said some flat-out appalling, racist shit.
On the other hand, I’m sure people referring to feminist heroes like Steinem as “old biddies,” etc., won’t piss off women north of 45 in the least. And if it does, who cares what those old bags think? It’s not like they show up to vote or anything. Oh wait…
FlipYrWhig
@Applejinx:
Just like how the youth energy from 2008 made the midterm elections of 2010 go really well!
ETA:
Personality-based presidential popularity contests suck! Vote for the Bernie Banner! Wait, I’ll come in again.
FlipYrWhig
@Applejinx: Bernie Sanders is blatantly in the pocket of Big Cookie. :P
Jim, Foolish LIteralist
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: I’m as white as milk and the whiteness of that ad made my jaw drop the first time I saw it. I saw some-time fire bagger Sam Seder on the Hayes show, and they agreed it was okay that the ad was so pale given the electorate(s) it was targeting, which sounded an awful lot like the dread political calculation. Of course, I know St Bernard is quite simply incapable of that kind of malfeasance.
Thoroughly Pizzled
@NR: But with Bernie it’s his selling point. “Congress is corrupt… and I’m not.” And all the rumblings about cheating in Iowa and DWS conspiracies. If he loses the nomination, his voters are absolutely primed to disappear.
gene108
@rikyrah:
Well duh?
Over the last seven years conventional wisdom by Democrats has drifted further and further to the Left. The Democrats were clearly becoming more liberal on the national level.
The question is can Bernie build support within the Democratic Party for some of his unique policy goals, such as single-payer that have the youngin’s feeling the Bern.
Or in other words, once the youngin’s realize the olds do not care to discuss Democratic Socialism with them, will they work to change the Democratic Party from within or will they sit out.
Cacti
@Cat48:
I guess he really thinks he can Berniesplain away Obama’s 85-90 percent favorable rating with black voters.
Jim, Foolish LIteralist
@Applejinx: Is SOMETHING showing up in Maggie Hassan’s poll numbers? Seems to me that would be the first evidence of Sanders coat tails..
p.a.
This is great news for the future of the S0cialist Party!
rikyrah
uh huh
uh huh
When Addiction Has a White Face
By EKOW N. YANKAH
FEB. 9, 2016
WHEN crack hit America in the mid-1980s, for African-Americans, to borrow from Ta-Nehisi Coates, civilization fell. Crack embodied instant and fatal addiction; we saw endless images of thin, ravaged bodies, always black, as though from a famined land. And always those desperate, cracked lips. Our hearts broke learning the words “crack baby.”
……………………………………….
Even for those of us African-Americans living at a relatively safe distance, there were soul-deadening costs. City centers, and by extension black neighborhoods, were seen in the national imagination as lawless landscapes. We were warned of a new wave of “super predators,” young, faceless black men wearing bandannas and sagging jeans. The addicted, those who preyed on them and those caught by class, geography and especially race were swept together. At the edges of my 12-year-old mind was the ominous sense that no matter how far crack was from my actual life, I was somehow associated with the scourge.
…………………………………….
Thirty years later, America is again seeing an epidemic of drug addiction, particularly heroin. The surge is so great that for the first time in generations, mortality among young white adults has risen. But the national attitude toward drug addiction is utterly different. Even Republican presidential candidates are eschewing the perennial tough-on-drugs speeches and opening up about struggles within their own families.
More important, police chiefs in the cities most affected by heroin are responding not by invoking military metaphors, weapons and tactics but by ensuring that police officers save lives and get people into rehab. As one former narcotics officer described his change of heart on addiction, “These are people and they have a purpose in life and we can’t as law enforcement look at them any other way.” In his inability to name the change that allowed this epiphany, his words also capture our cringe-worthy self-denial. Suddenly, police officers understand crime as a sign of underlying addiction requiring coordinated assistance, rather than a scourge to be eradicated.
It is hard to describe the bittersweet sting that many African-Americans feel witnessing this national embrace of addicts. It is heartening to see the eclipse of the generations-long failed war on drugs. But black Americans are also knowingly weary and embittered by the absence of such enlightened thinking when those in our own families were similarly wounded. When the face of addiction had dark skin, this nation’s police did not see sons and daughters, sister and brothers. They saw “brothas,” young thugs to be locked up, rather than “people with a purpose in life.”
raven
@Betty Cracker: One of the great “Old Bag” scenes ever!
FlipYrWhig
@gene108: Do we know that single-payer health reform has much to do with why young people like Bernie Sanders? It seems to me like the whole thing is fueled by the idea that Wall Street wrecked the future and got away with it and now they feel like they’ll have to pay student loans with crap jobs forever, and at least Bernie Sanders is mad about that too.
(For that matter, do we know that young people anywhere other than Iowa and New Hampshire like Bernie Sanders?)
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Jim, Foolish LIteralist:
I’m white too, but the only places that look like that America are parts of the Berkshires, Vermont, northern New Hampshire and down east Maine.
John Cole
It wasn’t the whiteness of the America ad that caught me. It was the corniness of it all. I mean, if I was going to mock a 70 year old democratic socialist I would make a commercial featuring music from Simon and Garfunkel. WTFD- they couldn’t find a Pete Seeger or Guthrie song? Where were the tie-dyes?
Iowa Old Lady
@TallPete: I saw what you did there. :-)
goblue72
@BGinCHI: Not really. Rock the Vote was founded by a Virgin Records exec, a guy who runs charter schools and a lobbyist for the RIAA. I was in my 20s when Rock The Vote first appears in the 1990s. It always carried the whiff of corporatism and a certain kind pre-packaged, MTV version of “cool.” At the end of the day, it just lacked authenticity.
Young people respond quite positively to authenticity – and quite negatively to what they perceive as hypocrisy. While Sanders “proud to be a liberal” message is clearly part of his appeal to the younger demographic – the younger generations have gotten a complete screw job and are increasingly fed up with the system – and understandably so. Justice delayed is justice denied.
But, I suspect its also due to his authenticity. He is who is and he’s been the same guy since forever. People in their 20s response to that. Tom Waits is in his 60s and he’s still popular & listened to by hip kids in their 20s. He might at this point even be the Hipster Godfather. Because he’s authentic, doesn’t feel manufactured or market-tested, and is who always has been. He’s still “cool” in a way that most 60-something rock musicians are not.
At the end of the day its not that complicated. Hillary Clinton has been in the public eye for a very long time. And its clear that a definite portion of the public still isn’t quite sure who exactly she is at her core, in terms of the “real” Hillary as opposed to the carefully groomed, carefully presented, locked-down, poll-tested, position paper candidate. I’m not sure there is anything she can do about it at this point – and it might not matter at the end of the day. But it is what it is – and young Democratic voters are rejecting it.
nutella
@Applejinx:
That puts the “why don’t the voters come out for midterms?” question in perspective. Why doesn’t the party come out for the midterms?
guachi
Bernie Sanders for Secretary of Labor! (That is, if Hillary wins)
The Democrats really need people to dominate TV and Radio in a way the Republicans have. I wanna see him on my TV after the primary is over.
NR
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Comparing the Sanders campaign to the Nazis now, I see. The Hillary supporters continue their downward spiral.
bemused
I’m just glad the young’uns are enthusiastic about social Democracy. Maybe some will become jaded with time but there are a lot more young people coming after them who will feel the same. They are rejecting radical rightwing churches, they don’t give a hoot who people fall in love with, they see people falling behind including themselves while the corporations and the wealthy are making out like bandits. I doubt many of them feel much in common with young people such as Donald Trump, Jr who said he can’t express an opinion because he’s the son of a billionaire or Eric Trump who said worse things than waterboarding happen at frat houses all the time.
I don’t think the younger generations are going to give up.
JanieM
@Brachiator
Speaking as an old biddy myself, and one with a long memory, I remember this as a typical Steinem attitude for all the decades she has been in the public eye. It has always been some variation on “if you don’t see it my way, you can’t possibly have thought it through,” or “you’re just too stupid” or “you’re a masochist.” Screw her.
Mnemosyne
@Betty Cracker:
I’m north of 45 (by one year, soon to be two). I wouldn’t say Old Biddy Brigade anywhere else, but if the shoe fits ….
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@NR:
There is a deliberate appeal to a certain constituency that the economy has failed, that also happens to be melanin deficient. Ignoring that fact doesn’t get us anywhere we want to get to.
Amir Khalid
@John Cole:
To say nothing of Simon and Garfunkel being, just like Bernie, 70-something Jews from New York.
Cat48
@gene108 Every young person I have seen interviewed says its for “free college or $15 min wage”
MomSense
I’m waiting to see what happens when we get to SC and NV and then Super Tuesday.
In my family it is the grandparents who are feeling the Bern and the youngs are decidedly supporting Clinton.
gene108
@Applejinx:
The Fundies organized through existing organizations that have dedicated members: their Churches.
They brought in ministers and told them how they fit into Movement Conservatism and then had them preach to their congregations.
They then started peppering the crap out of local, state and Congressional lawmakers with letters and phone calls, when something they objected to came up for consideration, such as restrictions on home schooling.
They then started running candidates for local and state elections.
But above all else the Fundies became a unified voting bloc for Republicans. They did the grunt work to GOTV and other things Republicans have come to rely on.
I’m not sure liberals have any central organization, like a church, where like minded individuals will gather and do what their leaders tell them to do.
Edit: I do not know, if liberals will be willing to spend years toiling away for establishment Democrats, until they can embed themselves into the Party apparatus.
shomi
I am never more certain that Hillary is the right candidate than I am when wr0ng way Cole posts another one of his Bernie love letters.
Iowa Old Lady
@bemused: They give me hope, even when they annoy me.
FlipYrWhig
@bemused: Which Republican is most popular among young Republicans? Because that would be a trend too. And presumably not a good one.
Why are we acting like young people being enthusiastic about a candidate is a new thing? Young people liked Bill Clinton. Young people liked Barack Obama. Is American politics better, more hopeful, more idealistic now that people in their early 20s circa 1992 and people in their early 20s circa 2008 have been integrated into the body politic?
Jim, Foolish LIteralist
Where are you getting the money to rent and staff offices? Is it more important to spend that money in Alabama’s 6th, or Pennsylvania’s 4th? Those are the questions that should follow clamoring for the allegedly magical 50 state strategy.
Obama filled stadiums in WI, OH and probably other places in October 2010, told the crowds that if “we” turned out the next month like we did ’08, we’d win. We got Ron Johnson, Scott Walker and John Kasich, maybe Portman, I can’t quite remember.
goblue72
@FlipYrWhig: Yes. Harvard University has a political polling project that it has been running since 2000 to surgery policy preferences amongst college-aged people. They conduct 2,000 interviews of a demographically representative cross-section of the population at that age group. The results of the Fall 2015 survey found a noticeable preference for Sanders over Clinton.
Bokonon
@goblue72: I can testify that Bernie has in fact been the same guy since forever. Back when I was co-president of the College Democrats at my university back in the mid 1980’s, we had Bernie come to campus and give a talk about politics, social justice and activism. He is exactly the same person. Just a few decades older.
When we had Bernie speak on campus, a couple of College Republicans showed up at the event, hoping to troll everyone and knock Bernie back on his heels for being a “socialist.” Bernie didn’t crumple and run the way that most politicians would have during that period. Instead, Bernie engaged them in a respectful but very tough minded dialogue that challenged their underlying assumptions about what “socialism” meant, and whether it was a bad thing, etc. They emerged kind of shaken up. They weren’t used to being challenged that way – and their brains hurt.
I liked Bernie personally, even if my own views on policy and politics more or less match the Clintons (who I worked for back during the 1992 campaign).
I will also note that Bernie’s own operating record as a politician is pretty darned pragmatic.
Cacti
@Amir Khalid:
Or each having a net worth of around $45 million.
Jim, Foolish LIteralist
@Cat48: Just curious, do they ever mention incrementalism and working across the aisle? Cause I am regularly assured that these points feature much more prominently in Sanders speeches than Political Revolution and free college.
@gene108: they also spent a good forty plus years doing it, not ten months
NR
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Comparing the Sanders campaign to Nazis doesn’t really get us anywhere either. Just FYI.
WarMunchkin
Man, I’m always conscious of how much younger I seem to be than most of the commenters on most lefty blogs. I just want to share with you what one of my friends wrote to me. I don’t think this’ll change the tendency here to basically want a “Millenials In Disarray!” tag, but I don’t think you get where (a lot of us, at least) are coming from (not to be too condescending about it, because you’re Democrats, after all, and probably do because duh).
(slightly edited to hide identifying details)
Lost. Decade. That means something besides in the Japanese context. And yes, everyone gets how hard Obama has been trying, and we like him mostly, but in the context of an election, if the Party isn’t going to speak viscerally to the damage wrought by these past years on people’s lives, it’s not going to go in a great direction.
Of course, a generation is diverse, and there are lots of people out there. But when I see people scold “the kids” for not showing up to an election, it makes my blood boil. The politically engaged people vote – and the angry people vote. For everyone else, we pay professional Democrats large sums of money to get out the message.
dedc79
@Chyron HR: Have you seen the Simpsons meme generator?
maurinsky
I think we need to encourage people to embrace voting AGAINST. Sure, I’d like to have my perfect candidate run, but it will never happen. The primaries will determine which candidate is preferred by active party members (or anybody in open primary states, I guess), and if they aren’t exactly what I want (which they aren’t, and never will be) at least they are way better than the alternative.
FlipYrWhig
@gene108: If anything it seems to me like the worst possible vehicle for the Bernie-fication of American politics would be a Bernie Sanders presidency, where Bernie Sanders’s ideals turn into slap-fights and would-be grand achievements become stepwise and incremental. It would be much more effective to convert the Bernie Sanders campaign into Feel The Bern For America, have Bernie barnstorm through your district or state to get young people excited about the stakes of non-Presidential elections, and have none of the kludgy aftermath have anything to do with Bernie Sanders the practicing politician.
sparrow
@nutella: I also had this experience. It was like nothing was going on in 2010.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@NR:
Perhaps then, the Sanders campaign could pretend to care more about the issues that affect 40 million Americans, FYI.
NR
@maurinsky: That doesn’t work and it never has. Running on “The Republicans are worse” has lost Democrats election after election. You have to give people something to vote for.
FlipYrWhig
@Jim, Foolish LIteralist: But that’s because even when he did that he didn’t try hard enough, or entirely properly, or he did it handicapped by some indescribable non-Bernie-ness that can’t be a problem for Bernie Sanders.
Brachiator
@FlipYrWhig:
Actually we can. Obama scored big with younger voters in 2008 and 2012.
So, for example, in 2012, Obama got 61 percent of the Iowa vote of people age 18 to 24 (and 56 percent of people age 18 to 29). This should be the sweet spot for Democrats.
Jim, Foolish LIteralist
How do you and your friend feel about your/his/her Senators and Congresscritters? cause they were the ones who insisted on damaging cuts to a whole bunch of [scientific subjects].
gene108
@FlipYrWhig:
Anecdotal evidence from people I know is that under the PPACA getting affordable insurance is still not easy and getting medical bills is still unaffordable, even with insurance.
Therefore single-payer has a lot of appeal.
FlipYrWhig
@goblue72: Was it 85-15 like the numbers being kicked around in the OP?
NR
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: I don’t even know what you’re on about. Are you backing off from comparing the Sanders campaign to Nazis now?
TallPete
@Iowa Old Lady: Thanks for noticing :) After the kerfluffle the other day I need to be careful. Did you like the vid? Funny as hell IMO
Jim, Foolish LIteralist
@sparrow: where?
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@NR:
40 million people of color – but I guess that hasn’t occurred to you?
jl
HRC is still the favorite. Sanders might make it a lot closer in NC than expected, but in NV he does not look so good, and look at what we know about how Sanders will do in the South (from poll aggregates for state primaries on the internet, take your pick).
So, I think realistically, we have to hope that Sanders really means it when he says pushing for a political revolution is just as important as his nomination, and that he campaigns hard for Dems for the general. We will find out. And Clintons (or, to be fair to how HRC has been behaving recently, specifically Bill) do not hold a grudge if Sanders gives them a scare or two during the primaries.
FlipYrWhig
@Brachiator:
Well, so, in 2010, Iowa voted for Charles Grassley. And in 2014, Iowa voted for Joni Ernst. Doesn’t seem like the sweet spot among the young did them a ton of good.
ETA: Not that it’s at all a bad development, but as a prediction about reshaping the party and whatnot, as in the OP, not so much.
Cat48
@Jim Foolish Literialist. No, never comes up. I think its just magic???
WarMunchkin
@Jim, Foolish LIteralist: The general attitude is that they can go DIAF, but I suspect that’s scientific-communities-at-large rather than a generational thing.
Mnemosyne
@FlipYrWhig:
That strikes me as weird since Obama won Iowa in both 2008 and 2012. That says that there’s a serious state party weakness.
Iowa Old Lady
@TallPete: Samantha Bee is hilarious (though not hysterical).
NR
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Stop deflecting. Do you stand by your comparison of the Sanders campaign to the Nazis or don’t you?
Brachiator
@FlipYrWhig:
It is a well known tactic to use surrogates to help get the message out. This also includes, for example, people who appear on the pundit shows. Eleanor Clift, who appeared on the old crappy “The McLaughlin Group” used to be called Eleanor Rodham Clift, and was known not only to be a Clinton advocate, but often to preview statements that you would later hear from Clinton herself.
But apart from this, Steinem’s remarks didn’t rally people to Clinton’s side, but not only pointlessly alienated people, and also drew more attention to Clinton’s weakness with younger voters.
That’s a lose lose situation.
jl
@NR: Let the HRC and Sanders feuders go at each other. They are obsessives, and probably not much anyone can do about them. Maybe there is an official clinical diagnosis for what happens to some people during political primaries.
IMHO, one of the two Dem candidates has to win in November, and bring a lot of down ticket votes with them. Nothing else is very important. It will probably be HRC, but not much anyone of us can do about it, least of all bitter sniping and smearing on some miserable lefty blog.
But, to each his or her own, I guess.
FlipYrWhig
@Mnemosyne: On top of that, Bruce Braley (D candidate from 2014) proudly declared himself a populist. It’s not like he was a Blue Dog who was dispiriting because he was too corporate-tastic. It’s a pretty good test case for ideology, enthusiasm, and winning. And it’s kind of shit for liberal Democrats.
Hal
How many actual voters are we talking about? As many people have noted, primaries are not the general election. It’s wonderful that these young people are showing up in droves but how many are actually going to show up and vote in November? Iowa is not the rest of the country, and is far less representative of the Democratic party as a whole. Everyone says that and acknowledges that, but at the same time Sanders doing well in Iowa is supposed to signal that he will do well in the rest of the country?
Cacti
@jl:
Did you mean SC? Either way, he trails big in both Carolinas in fairly recent polling.
There hasn’t been any polling data from NV since December. I’m curious about where that one stands.
Brachiator
@FlipYrWhig:
Jesus Freaking Christ. Midterm and Presidential elections. Different animals. You should know better.
FlipYrWhig
@Brachiator:
Indeed, and it is also a well known phenomenon that celebrities occasionally stay stupid shit into microphones.
Applejinx
We had a woman at the Bernie office come in and derp around: apparently some kind of hostile operative.
She made an official email under the name ‘BernieSpam’, she sat around making personal phone calls on our phones, ate food and stole a couple coffee mugs.
Bader-Meinhof Gang, she wasn’t :D
goblue72
@NR: Precisely. At some point, I would hope this would sink in with the Democratic Party. Our problem is that the base wants the Democratic Party to be the party of working people, while the Democratic leadership and party apparatus sold out to corporate funders decades ago. When the continuing attacks on unions by the Business Roundtable and other corporate lobbying groups that started in the early 1970s started bearing fruit in the late 1970s/early 1980s, and union power started to decline -and thus the campaign donation and political power base – of the Democratic Party change, the whole temper of the party changed.
Unscrewing this problem is not something that gets solved by an unending focus on the White House and a strategy of “we aren’t the other guy”.
Anoniminous
@Mnemosyne:
Turnout collapsed in 2010 and 2014 by something like 15 and 20 percent compared to previous election (IIRC)
ETA: Went and looked it up.
2008: 69.7
2010: 50.7
2012: 70.3
2014: 49.8
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@NR:
Oh fer fuck sake, that’s ridiculous. Sanders isn’t a Nazi – that’s Trump’s campaign. But there’s definitely an overlap of white male Bernie/Trump supporters that can only be explained by one thing – white male anxiety of losing their grip, and it should cause concern. Re Bernfeeling – I’m with Gandhi’s take on Christianity – I like your Christ, not so much your Christians.
FlipYrWhig
@Brachiator: But that’s just it. John says “I wish we could tap this energy for the state and local elections.” Per rikyrah, Matt Yglesias says “[Bernie Sanders’] brand of politics is extremely promising for the future.” We’ve already seen two cycles of the future when the future was youth-enthusiasm-generating Barack Obama, and it was an utter failure when there was no Obama to vote for. Why does it seem like youth-enthusiasm-generating Bernie Sanders is going to pay off in the future in state and local elections when there’s no Bernie Sanders to vote for? Nothing suggests that it would happen.
goblue72
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: You are frinkin’ insane.
Marc
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: You made an incredibly offensive Nazi analogy to the Sanders campaign, and it’d be good to steep back, admit it was inartful, and move on.
Doing nothing but counting heads in an ad to decide whether they approve of something or not, completely ignoring content, is one of the many depressing signs of leftists completely losing the plot. Making an ad in, say, Iowa, that reflects the people who live in, say, Iowa, isn’t OK? Something tells me that you’d have some other reason to hate whatever Sanders was doing if it looked like one of those carefully constructed multi-racial college brochures.
Kay
@Hal:
I’m not convinced Sanders is that strong, so I didn’t look at Iowa like that. I looked at Iowa as a bad sign for Clinton’s strength.
I think she should have won that easily and I don’t think I’m alone in that, judging from what looks to me like Clinton camp getting really rattled after it was so close. I don’t buy that Iowa is this far Left outlier that Hillary Clinton could never win. I think that theme started when Sanders started to close.
In the existing Iowa electorate and not comparing Iowa to South Carolina (which makes no sense) Hillary Clinton should be able to beat Bernie Sanders handily.
FlipYrWhig
@goblue72:
No, your problem is that the part of the Democratic Party that wants it to be “the party of working people” isn’t really the base.
Applejinx
@rikyrah: I absolutely agree with this and it’s bullshit, even as I see (for instance in Keene NH) heroin addiction continuing to be a huge problem among whites.
It is OBSCENE that before it was white people, they were all ‘super-predators who needed to be brought to heel’ – Hillary Clinton
…but now all of a sudden it’s a health crisis because they’re white. It was ALWAYS a health crisis, and it’s unspeakably obscene the way that was handled and it’s obscene that we collectively try to sweep under the rug this sudden rules change.
Just had to say that. There’s been two nations for a very long time and while it’s great that we are waking up to the fact, it is disgraceful that America collectively figures it out only when white people are threatened.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@goblue72:
I wish I was. There’s a bro thing going on between the Paul supporters, the Bernie bros and Trump’s admirers. It’s all over my twitter feed. It’s weird but true.
jl
@Cacti: Thanks. I meant SC.
Bernie needs an exponential growth curve in his support in primary states to catch up in time to not lag in primary delegates. Way I see it, he is still gaining support but not on that trajectory. I think it will be clear after Super Tuesday that he will fall short. Then will be critical time to see if he really means what he says about his political revolution.
I’ve sent him money, but I don’t think the direction he is moving with his campaign (straight ahead with his standard stump speech) will do the trick.
BTW, I don’t think his stump speeches are particularly rambling, and really a silly charge compared to some of the GOPers, particularly Trump and Jeb. He has a standard stump speech he gives, organized into sections on various topics that he gives over and over again. Arrangement of topics varies, but not much else.
FlipYrWhig
@Applejinx:
Uh, that “all” isn’t from anything Hillary Clinton said. And Bernie Sanders voted for that bill too. You were saying?
El Caganer
@NR: Fuck it. The Sanders campaign should lose the Simon and Garfunkel and play “Tomorrow Belongs To Me” instead. No wimpy crypto-Nazis, please – go big or go home.
FlipYrWhig
@jl: Sometimes he does the banks are bad part first, second, and fourth, and the third is about billionaires.
Brachiator
@Betty Cracker:
I can respect Steinem and Madeleine Albright and still call them on their bullshit.
They are old biddies because of their attitude here and insult to young women, not because of their age.
It’s like pearl clutchers who need fainting couches, in my universe gender neutral. Anyone who wants to be insulted is free to feel insulted.
Cacti
@FlipYrWhig:
College students aren’t really “working people” either.
Anoniminous
@Kay:
The spin I heard was “Bernie is too much of a commie to connect to the simple folks of Iowa” until he almost won the state. They’ve given up on NH because that’s Favorite Son/Northeast Liberal territory with overtones of Dukkais Loser Stink.
South Carolina is the early test. If Clinton loses there again, it really puts a crimp in her plans. I don’t think she will but I didn’t expect Iowa to be as close as it turned out to be.
jl
@rikyrah: @Applejinx:
Thanks to rikyrah for that link. I agree. I’ve been infuriated with the contrast, and puzzled why so many fellow right minded tighty whities seem oblivious.
Bill
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
Where are you seeing this? It’s hard to find a “I want to keep what’s mine” message in people supporting a self declared socialist.
bemused
@Iowa Old Lady:
Yes, me too. All of my kids are in their 30’s, liberal, tolerant people and don’t suffer fools gladly such as the current GOP candidates. I see the same attitudes with their friends and our friends’ kids the same ages. The grandkids are starting to add up and their parents are going to be thinking a lot about their futures. Just my feeling but I think the GOP is burning their bridges with most young people.
@FlipYrWhig:
What’s different is the social culture has been changing, the young people are more tolerant of diversity, have more concern about climate change, etc, etc and they have felt the repercussions of the financial meltdown with college debt, lower paying jobs if they can find them, living with their parents far longer than previous generation. They know they are struggling more than many of their parents’ generation did. I don’t think they will tolerate the people and their policies that are holding them back. I think they will get more angry and determined to change that for themselves and their own children.
Hillary Rettig
@goblue72: it appears I can do it without even showing up, so easy peasy! :-)
Chyron HR
@jl:
That’s okay. He only needs to be “just a few delegates short of the supposed front-runner” at the convention, and then he’ll get the nomination by invoking the secret No Hillarys clause.
goblue72
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Then you have a shitty twitter feed. And are still completely deranged for making the comparison you did.
Jim, Foolish LIteralist
He didn’t almost win the state. He almost won the caucus of a state won by Joni Ernst, Chuck Grassley and apparent Governor for Life Terry Banstead.
Brachiator
@FlipYrWhig:
Madeleine Albright and Bill Clinton, who both made similarly stupid remarks in this vein, are more than celebrities.
Life is tough. You capitalize on the youth vote when you can. What other option do you have?
ruemara
I’m glad these kids are feeling so excited. There’s some caveats to take away though. The demographics are, ahem, decidedly one sided. That’s not a little thing. I’m not really concerned the yoots won’t show up in the general. Defeating HRC in the primary would motivate them hugely for their “revolution”. I’d be more concerned that these nascent believers in unitary executive power don’t know who else is on the ballot that would be helpful in Bernie Sanders having a government behind him, which Obama has been sadly lacking. Sanders has not impressed me with his savvy in the 10 years he’s been on my radar, so getting him the most progressive backup dancers possible would be & has been my greatest concern. He can win just fine; he needs help to govern.
Heliopause
Why is it always necessary to speak about 20-somethings in the same condescending way that women and minorities are spoken of? And then wonder why they aren’t getting with the program the oldsters have set for them?
dedc79
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
That’s a strange claim, given that we know Trump’s support does skew older and male, while Sanders’ support skews young and is not gender-specific (the “new campus left” they call it, right in the article Cole linked to).
Hillary Rettig
here’s a fantastic essay that encapsulates the young progressive viewpoint:
http://www.villagevoice.com/news/feeling-the-yern-why-one-millennial-woman-would-rather-go-to-hell-than-vote-for-hillary-8253224
Hillary Rettig
@Brachiator: not just Steinem and Albright either. Debbie W Schultz made a crack about how young women who grew up in the era of Roe v. Wade take their reproductive rights for granted.
Kay
@Anoniminous:
Right. Then they became far Left radicals. They also went from caucusing for Obama to somehow rejecting Clinton because…. Clinton polls well with African Americans in South Carolina. When Sanders loses South Carolina I plan to say “well, duh! He pulled even in Iowa, right?” Connecting these two things never made any sense. Clinton’s strength in South Carolina doesn’t explain her weakness in Iowa.
They say that Clinton did a really good job with on the ground organizing in Iowa, that her ground people “saved her”, which is great, I guess, except why didn’t she have stronger support going into the caucus? Where was the pull of the candidate to get them in there?
Jim, Foolish LIteralist
@Hillary Rettig: is there one that explains how and why you lied about Clinton and health care the other day?
bin Lurkin'
@Bokonon:
I see that a lot, if you challenge their assumptions in a clever way it doesn’t take long before they really don’t want to talk to you any more.
Cole’s conversion from conservative to liberal-ish is an interesting read for anyone who hasn’t seen it happen. I was here at the time, back then B-J was one of the few conservative blogs where a liberal could post and not get immediately banned.
Not all conservatives are nutso assholes, a lot of them have just never run into a situation where their prejudices get properly unwrapped, the are programmed to respond violently at least with rhetoric.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Bill:
I think they hear that the bankers should be punished for not getting what they think they’ve been cheated out of. Not the same thing. My twitter feed is full of angry people of color who are insisting that when it comes to sharing, minorities are still being denied participation in the benefits of the laws already in place – like voting rights and Medicaid expansion, while Bernie won’t speak to their underlying concerns how anything will change for them, ever.
sparrow
@Jim, Foolish LIteralist: Admittedly, Texas.
Cacti
@Jim, Foolish LIteralist:
The revolution will not be bound by trifling things like facts or intellectual consistency. It’s all about feelings. Berning feelings, man.
ruemara
@Hillary Rettig: That’s true and not condescending. I grew up post Roe v Wade. I wouldn’t believe what’s been happening, is happening.
Look, I’ve shared with young white friends stories of modern blackness. The cutest response from one was, “we need to really do something. The kkk is coming back!” It never went away. Many young people are unaware of what things were like just 20 years ago, much less 50.
rikyrah
Black Girls in Durham, NC, School Denied Right to Honor African Heritage
What began as a celebration of Black History Month in Durham by wearing African head wraps, is now a protest over expression.
BY: JANELLE HARRIS
Posted: Feb. 9 2016 9:23 AM
It started as a collective expression of pride. A group of young women at the School for Creative Studies in Durham, N.C., decided to wear head wraps—also called geles—to align with and honor their culture at the start of Black History Month.
Instead, they say administrators warned that they were in violation of the dress code and threatened them with suspension. They were given the choice to wear the geles only in a way that allowed their hair to show or to remove them altogether. According to the policy, “hats, caps, hoods, sweat bands and bandannas or other head wear worn inside [the] school building” are impermissible, but it details nothing about garments worn in accordance with cultural tradition.
“It says to me symbolically that our girls—and our boys, as well—have to alter not only their attire, but their whole selves in order to seem less disruptive or offensive,” said Dosali Reed-Bandele. Her daughter Nandi, an 11th-grader at the school, was among those admonished. “This is utterly ridiculous and I am tired of those messages bombarding our babies day in and day out.”
That the enforcement is falling heavy on this particular segment of students is part of the cycle of inequitable standards, a tradition in and of itself. The young women also say they were told that they were not being inclusive to other students at the school. Because, of course, being expressly proud of being black compromises the ability of others to be expressly proud of their variety of nonblack.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@rikyrah:
Down with Goldman Sachs!
goblue72
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Denied because of something the Federal government is doing – or denied because they are unlucky enough to live in a state controlled by the GOP. Because those are two very different things.
Cacti
@rikyrah:
Nothing a $15/hour minimum wage won’t fix. ;-)
A Ghost To Most
@goblue72:
You are lying about conster; she was talking about a commercial, not the campaign.
I have to wonder if all the Bernie supporters are going to turn into PUMAs when/if HRC gets the nomination. I am confident that many, if not most, HRC supporters would support Bernie if he gets the nom. I know I would, as someone who supports HRC, but I get the impression that Bernie supporters will sulk and pout like the firebaggers did.
Bill
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
I asked about your basis for the above statement, and you answered with this:
I’m not seeing how that answers my question. Again, please explain this alleged overlap in supporters based on white male anxiety.
Also, a few times in this thread you’ve cited you’re Twitter feed as the basis for generalizations. I think you’re overestimating how representative your Twitter feed is of either the American public or any given voting segment thereof.
While I don’t deny that minorities are being screwed, please cite me something in which Sanders has said his proposed policies won’t be applied equally to all people? In fact, this: looks an awful lot Like Sanders speaking to the concerns you say he’s ignoring.
Bokonon
@Mnemosyne: The Democratic state and local party systems are in bad shape in many of the Red States – and the GOP’s efforts to de-fund the Democrats by intimidating and scaring off donors have been effective over the last decade or so. The Democratic party groups also aren’t in particularly good shape in states like Wisconsin – where they really should be on alert and upping their game. And to add to the woes, I have heard lots of anecdotal stuff about divisions and dysfunction and a lack of fresh people, plus weakness in recruiting strong candidates to run against the GOP incumbents.
A lot of it comes down to local money, local commitment, local passion, and some level of local competence. And you can’t make up for a bad ground game or lack of infrastructure by coming in at the DCCC level and running a lot of ads or importing people to organize or canvas. One-off efforts like that really doesn’t equalize things when you are working against a well-funded incumbent political machine, or build for future success (because after the election, it all just goes away).
the Conster, la Citoyenne
Bill – my twitter feed is very broad – following lots of newspapers, aggregators, people of color, trans people, libertarians, right wing sites. There’s definitely a lot of angry bro types, and the most strident ones I see are the Bernie bros. It’s really something to watch them swarm into someone’s thread. I’ve had several back and forths with Trump supporters who seem to be way more confused about the world and the causes of their problems, but like Bernie too, but wish he wasn’t a commie. They don’t know the meaning of words, but angry white guys will latch onto the next shiny thing. My own rich brother in law says he likes Bernie and Trump because “they can say what they want because they can’t be bought”. It’s a thing.
AnonPhenom
@Cacti:
You’ve graduated from being a dishonest hack, to a LYING dishonest hack.
Have a banana
goblue72
@rikyrah: And so? Life sucks – is that anything new? I think its great that its becoming a “white” problem and getting the attention of white America. You should be happily jumping up and down. The path to success for social change for disempowered groups comes not from focusing solely on hypocrisy and double standards – but in focusing on how the cleave segments of the in-power group away from the establishment and align with the interests of the out of power group. Coates seems to have fallen for the delusion that if he yells “HYPOCRITE” loud enough, he will change anything.
Civil rights laws didn’t occur until a sufficient portion of the white community was cleaved away and took common cause with the black community. This is NOT me taking the position that “Civil rights happened because of LBJ more than MLK”. Rather, that black leadership’s success as the forward engine for civil rights, was built in part by strategically getting enough white voters to their side.
That is just classic social change theory. It is the same from the class based perspective. Poor and working class constituencies find success when they can cleave the middle class away from their “natural” orientation towards the upper classes and moved towards finding common cause with poor and working people’s interests. When those interests get aligned, social change benefitting the lower classes is possible.
Look at gay marriage. The LGBT community as a voting block is far too small to effect broad scale change positively affecting its community. The LGBT community LED on gay marriage. But a critical component of that leading was getting the straight community to co-identify with it. To see attacks on gay marriage as de-leigitmizing their own straight marriages, through a co-identification of the principle of marriage that crossed over gender orientation boundaries. At that point, the public opinion and voting coalition was sufficient to move the ball forward in both the courts, and the ballot box.
In the case of drugs and white America – yay, white America is seeing it affecting them too now! Something might actually happen now – because white people still control the board – and almost all levers of power. Success on the issue – which will result in positive benefits accruing TO black America – will come from getting parts of white America to change its mind and co-identifying on the issue with black America.
Brachiator
@Betty Cracker:
Also, too, it was Steinem who came up with the totally specious and insulting distinction between age, lack of seriousness, and political activism.
She made her Old Biddy, now she has to lie in it.
goblue72
@AnonPhenom: Calling Cacti a hack is an insult to hacks.
FlipYrWhig
@Bill: I’m not surprised, honestly. Sure, there are people supporting a self declared socialist, and that’s most of who we talk about around here. But there are people who just want to hit the political jukebox until it stops skipping, and Bernie Sanders Anger is one of the ways to do that too.
Jim, Foolish LIteralist
@goblue72: Sick burn, RadiBro! Sick. Burn.
goblue72
@A Ghost To Most: Conster specifically referred to his/her Twitter feed. So stuff it, bub.
As for the pouting crap, again, stuff it. I could make an equally spurious claim that very damn Hillary supporter in 2008 sulked and didn’t vote for Obama. But it would be an equal amount of bullshit because what some random person says on the Internet is just random shit on the Internet.
But please, keep insulting Sanders supporters. That’s SURE to get people to your side in the general if Clinton wins.
Cacti
@AnonPhenom:
Was talking about Simon and Garfunkle, broseph.
You know, the kind of millionayuh that Bernie likes.
goblue72
@Jim, Foolish LIteralist: I see the sidekick has spoken.
ruemara
@goblue72: wow. OK.
Applejinx
@Anoniminous: I’m not sure how ‘given up’ they could be. I’m hearing that the media will not do exit polling, for the first time since ever. Presumably because what the exit polling would reveal, ain’t pretty for Clinton. It certainly isn’t a Clinton win they’re pointedly not reporting.
We are still cranking away doing things like organizing rides to polls. Just to win here isn’t going to be that impressive, so we need to produce a blowout victory.
glory b
@NR: Yeah, I hear that all the time, but black folks have been voting AGAINST since forever, and middle aged, educated African Americans are the MOST consistent, likely to vote group in the country.
Maybe it’s just that the alternatives have been a lot more scary for us, at least until recently.
We are the most pragmatic, clear eyed voters here. A candidate doesn’t need to touch our hearts. We don’t need to fall in love with a candidate (Obama was the exception), we don’t need to be swayed by soaring rhetoric. We’d like some decent schools and decent jobs and not to kill us.
Oh, and now days, non-poisonous water too, please.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@ruemara:
Yeah. Don’t insult the Sanders supporters though.
Jim, Foolish LIteralist
@goblue72: Ouch! you are just on fire, middle management radical.
Bill
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: So you supporting cite is literally your Twitter feed.
I’m reminded of some saying about anecdotes and data.
Anoniminous
@Kay:
On the off chance you are still around …
For me, those go to the heart of the Clinton mystery. When the rubber hits the road, Hilliary Clinton seems unable to inspire dedication and enthusiasm. I don’t know why.
Cacti
@goblue72:
Oh noes, bro. Please don’t take your ball and go home.
You’re special and deserve all those trophies you got just for showing up
Actually, your Mom lied. You’re not special. Not even special in your own way.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Bill:
Well when I own a polling firm I’ll get you data. Until then, social media is as close to polling the marketplace of ideas as anyone can get.
goblue72
@Jim, Foolish LIteralist: Sad, sad, Boomer. Depressed that you future is shorter than your past?
Brachiator
@Hillary Rettig:
What? This is nuts. It totally ignores, for example, the assault on women’s reproductive rights at the state level.
Can DWS say “Sandra Fluke?”
Anoniminous
@Applejinx:
“Gave up” in the national media-message-spinning sense. I’m sure the Clinton folks in NH are doing what they can to win and Sanders folks are working flat-out to max the vote.
goblue72
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Except that only roughly 20% of the adult population uses Twitter, and Twitter users skew younger, more college educated, more affluent and more male that the general population. Other than that, its totally representative of the general public.
A Ghost To Most
@goblue72:
So fuck yourself sideways, BernieBro – this is the comment you and NR started ragging on. You seem convinced that us ‘olds’ are your enemies. Good luck in November, if you intend on alienating all your allies.
goblue72
@Cacti: You do realize the more moronic you get, the more I laugh?
Keith G
Jesus wept.
TallPete
@Hal:
Good question. A reasonable answer at this point seems to be: more than would be with a Clinton nomination. Question is will that offset voters for Clinton that wouldn’t vote for Sanders.
Jim, Foolish LIteralist
@goblue72: Oh god, you’re doing your “I’m the voice of youth!” schtick again. It’s simultaneously funny and sad. Like a comb-over, in blog form.
A Ghost To Most
@goblue72: Fucking Hipster
AnonPhenom
@Cacti:
Your comment history prevents me from accepting that as a likely excuse.
I’m not a Sanders supporter. I just dislike dishonest hacks.
Fly my pretties
singfoom
This whole circular firing squad thing is so goddamn tiresome. Nobody’s supporters look good when this is the lens. People have preferences and they have reasons for those preferences.
But Christ, their preferences and their reasons and experiences are different than yours. Well, just shit on them and make sure you chalk up the difference to bad intent / ignorance or anything other than just seeing things a different way.
Bob In Portland
@John Cole: The problem is that many if not most of the Dems supported by the DNC turn out to be former Republicans, DINOs, Blue Dogs, New Dems, etc. DownWithTyranny! analyzes this (the dreadful candidates) from time to time. One lesson Debbie Wasserman Schultz should have learned is that when voters have a choice between a Republican and a faux Republican, they choose the genuine Republican.
Schultz needs to go. She is complicit.
You want the young voters to vote? Give them real candidates.
A Ghost To Most
@Bob In Portland:
Shorter Bob in Portland – Putin/Assad 2016!
Brachiator
@Applejinx:
Actually, some media outlets are too poor to pay for exit polling. And some states are either discouraging or prohibiting exit polling.
But good exit polls could be extremely useful both for the primary and leading up to the general election. And especially if Clinton becomes the Democratic nominee, and especially if she wins, polling data will be a gold mine for historians and political scientists who will want to look at the election from the perspective of age, race and gender.
Applejinx
@goblue72: Easy now. Be nice.
We’re saying in the Bernie office, close to the end of our last day, that we are still working because we are out to demoralize.
THIS is how we demoralize. Not by sniping and mean comments and ‘twitter activism’ and mudslinging.
We demoralize by turning out significantly more people who are engaged and excited because they get to believe in the candidate they’re electing. We do not HAVE to call names or go negative because we don’t have to, so if you’re going negative or ‘sniping back’, stop it.
Exit polls or not, I’m looking forward to how we did.
And before any snarkiness: when I guess that the Clintons pulled some strings and got there to be no exit polling, I do NOT think in any way they’d be messing with the votes. I think they want to make sure that no Clinton people get discouraged by news of a blowout and choose to not even go.
And good for them, all the Clinton people SHOULD vote. We have been sending supporters of other candidates to the polls with encouragement, this whole time. The office has specific rules to tell the other folks, ‘yes please vote because we care about democracy’. They should vote. They are.
We can afford to pass up the advantage of early exit polling predicting the outcome. Bring it on.
Marc
@A Ghost To Most: Yup, pretty goddamn offensive to equal a Sanders commercial with something that a Nazi would produce. You’d totally be OK with equating something that the Clinton campaign did with something that the Nazis did?
Can you people step away from your anger long enough to recognize that you’re writing things that you don’t mean and insulting people instead of convincing them?
Nazi analogies piss people off, they don’t shed light. Don’t use them.
Bobby Thomson
Stop feeding the ratfucker.
Kay
@Anoniminous:
Maybe it will just be a grind. There are elections like that. 2012 was one. 2004 had a lot of energy but it was all negative, IMO. Anti-Bush rather than pro-Kerry.
glory b
@FlipYrWhig: I might be wrong, but I think those numbers were for democrats in that age bracket, not all of them.
I remember reading somewhere that Trump and Cruz pulled a lot of young people too, almost as many as Sanders.
Betty Cracker
@Brachiator: What Steinem said was stupid and insulting, which is why she had to walk it back. But the precious feels of all parties are relevant here. It doesn’t just go one way.
Bobby Thomson
@Applejinx: networks stopped doing exit polling before this, because the polls were so off. Your aluminum foil doesn’t persuade.
Cacti
@goblue72:
Sick burn, broheim.
Keep fighting the squishes…err…the establishment.
goblue72
@ruemara: We live in a shitty society. We have to take the pre-existing social and power structures as they are, and utilize and manipulate them to effect the change we want to see. White America runs the show by and large – and will continue to do so for quite some time. As progressives, we can either figure out a way to get a portion of white American inside our tent – or we can let them vote Republican. And white voters show up, year in, year out – midterms AND Presidential elections. I don’t care about feeling good or what is fair – I care about two things – moving public policy as far left as possible, and winning.
Shit – white American has even managed to shoehorn voters of color into voting district bantustans under the ironic rubric of civil rights. Fucking genius from a pure hardball politics perspective. So, a handful of African American politicians get a seat at the table, but never enough to do much of anything except at rare opportunities. Case in contrast – California instituted a nonpartisan system of electoral district setting a few election cycles ago. There was worry at the time that it would dilute the Latino vote, as Latino voters were likely to be more sprinkled more around. under the new system. Result – Democrats seized 2/3 majority in both houses, made Republicans completely irrelevant statewide, and the Speaker-Elect and Senate President are now both Latino.
Keith G
@Applejinx: Since you work at a Sanders field office (correct?), I have a question.
Thus far, what Clinton campaign choices have surprised you and/or the greater Sanders campaign?
goblue72
@A Ghost To Most: And the original comment was completely stupid, deranged and insulting. Comparing a political campaign ad from a Socialist Jew to Nazi propaganda?
GO. EFF. YOURSELF.
Applejinx
@glory b: I totally hear that. In order for Bernie people to prove ourselves to POC, it’s twofold: not only do we have to be able to address those issues, we also have to be able to deliver a victory. To that I’d point to the polling of Bernie doing better against Republicans, and pulling even with Hillary right away, and I’m pretty sure we have a real solid victory here in New Hampshire, and we have to go on from there.
Demanding ‘trust us’ to the black demographic is a sick joke. Just let us prove ourselves. And if you’re being told that Bernie never talks about black people at his rallies, just income inequality and rich people: Bernie talked about black issues every single time I’ve personally heard him speak. Every. single. time.
And he was absolutely right to do so, and spoke the truth.
Cacti
@Applejinx:
Bernie will prove himself to non-white voters with a solid win in a 95% white state?
LoLwut?
As goes New Hampshire, so goes Alabama?
Bill
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
Except that it’s not.
There is actual polling on where Sanders support is coming from. Here. It’s overwhelmingly young and evenly split between genders.
On the other hand, Trump supporters skew decidedly old. See here.
There just is much overlap between these two groups.
I assume you’re referencing the “Bernie Bros,” which undoubtedly do exist and have been saying some awful stuff. They are hardly a significant part of the Sanders electorate though, and I’ve seen nothing to indicate overlap with Trump supporters. (Who say their own – but different – awful stuff.)
So while your Twitter feed may have a few outliers in it who want to see a Trump/Sanders ticket. The idea that this group is a meaningful portion of the electorate lacks support.
Applejinx
@Keith G: I’m data entry, man. I don’t speak for the campaign, just for myself.
I can still answer that, though. All the women here were gobsmacked at the Gloria Steinem etc. business, really deeply offended, and we’re all surprised that Hillary didn’t repudiate those comments. It would seem like the logical thing to do.
Apparently women for Bernie are just chasing pretty boys, plus they’re going to hell.
The funniest part is, we had those Danish students here to help canvass (they can’t vote, but they were still out canvassing and phonebanking for us.
If women DID side with Bernie just to see pretty boys, I got to say: we had ’em. Dang :)
Bobby Thomson
@Heliopause: because the dipshits don’t vote in off year elections and then complain that Democrats are compromising.
Keith G
Holy shit!
Not only is Jesus still weeping, but now he is nailing his own ass to the cross.
“Father, get me the hell off this planet.”
Applejinx
@Cacti: Nope, but proving he can win a general election would be good. Why on earth should POC align with Bernie BEFORE he wins primaries? I totally understand the ‘prove yourself’ part. No blame, we’ll just have to go out and do that. Most understandable attitude in the world. Aligning with some flake with no ground game and getting a Republican elected would be awful.
I think we can begin suggesting it’s the Clintons who are lacking in ground game and more likely to lose to a Republican in the general. If they can’t get and hold a massive lead against US when Bernie started off with twenty seconds of airtime vs. Trump’s hours and hours, there’s something the matter with them.
‘cos we’re good, very good, but they should be a lot better if they’re so inevitable.
glory b
@Applejinx: Hey, I think everyone who was part of that misguided movement needs to own it.
The Congressional Black Caucus asked for those laws. Black communities clamored for more protection. I’m old enough to remember.
We were all scared and were listening to the social scientists who told us this was about to happen.
And c’mon, Hillary was first lady, not the president. I think it’s somewhat sexist to tag her with everything Bill said or did.
Plus, she acknowledged that the laws were wrong. In fact, I think it was in the first speech of her campaign.
And Bernie voted for those laws too. Hillary wasn’t an elected official.
another thing, were is his rending of garments over his gun votes?
ruemara
@goblue72: the most consistent Democratic base are AA females. OK. Yeah. Thanks.
Hillary Rettig
@Anoniminous: here’s one big reason: she pays top-dollar for incompetent hacks. http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/09/the-front-runner-s-fall/306944/
Jim, Foolish LIteralist
@Hillary Rettig: you said Hillary Clinton changed her position on single payer because of the people who “hired” her. We were specifically talking about speaking fees. You can back up when she was for SP, right?
ruemara
Hey, not to interrupt the hurt feelings, blame, derision etc., but how many federal & state leg. choices have we seen attached to the Bernie Sanders campaign? I’ve kept up on the platform but I’m still not seeing many signs of this. I think POC could get on the wagon if he showed that level of coalition building.
glory b
@ruemara: Especially considering that he has famously never campaigned, phone called or fund raised for any candidate except himself.
Even while campaigning for the presidency the first time, Obama campaigned for down ticket candidates. Bernie seems to expect them to all follow him, even though he never did anything to give them a hand (and still isn’t).
Jim, Foolish LIteralist
@ruemara: Raul Grivalga and Keith Ellison, co-chairs (I think?) of the Progressive caucus. Nina Turner, State legislator (I forget which house) from the Cleveland area. Those are the only ones I know.
Ksmiami
@Hillary Rettig: HEY BIYOTCH – It wasn’t a “crack” about Roe V Wade, but a warning that purity ponies aside, this election really is on a knife edge for reproductive rights and as much as feel the Bern is fun and new, there is a lot more at stake.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
Bill: not sure why your reply button connects to your link, but it’s FUBAR.
Here’s one take on the crossover appeal
Here’s another take
To low info voters, both men make sense to them in their way.
Cacti
@glory b:
Despite being a member of Congress for a quarter century, Sanders manages to exempt himself from every wrong he believes originated with that body.
Sure, Bern. If you say so.
FlipYrWhig
@ruemara: Probably there would have been tons but THE HILLARY CLINTON DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ MACHINE SILENCED THEM ALL like with exit polling and AppleJinx’s office’s crummy phone lines and when they hacked the data files and got caught but it was Hillary’s fault because reasons.
Betty Cracker
@Ksmiami: “HEY BIYOTCH”? Really? Fuck you.
Keith G
@Applejinx: I think Hillary was in a bit of a no win situation, but she could have fashioned a non-repudiation response. Luckily, I do not think that Steinem – Albright will move that many votes in the coming weeks.
For me, I am a bit gob-smacked on what seems to be a lack of war gaming last year on what to do if Sanders caught on. For almost ten years now, much typing has been done on the rise of a younger, more liberal segment of the population who would be most likely to engage with Democratic politics. Not only did that cohort not have an existing relationship with the Clinton’s, but it seems that these younger participants feel that the HRC folks aren’t familiar with or focused on their needs.
I think that they are wrong, but I also think that the Clinton campaign probably passed up chances to connect with them (marketing).
Kay
@ruemara:
These are some people who are running for office and also identifying as Sanders supporters.
goblue72
@A Ghost To Most: You guys are just so off the mark, its sad.
J R in WV
@Cacti:
I think President Obama’s 90% favorable rating is among all declared Democrats, not related to their race at all.
Kay
@Keith G:
I think that’s key. You can’t demand that people have an experience they just did not have. Obama is their Democratic President. Saying Obama is to the Left of Bill Clinton doesn’t mean anything to them. They don’t have the same Left/Right range of possibilities. They can put Obama to the Right of Bernie and think that move Left is possible.
goblue72
@ruemara: Agreed, and perfectly reasonable criticism.
Challenge is – we haven’t seen much in the way of any down-ballot coat-tails from recent Dems. The short-lived Dem takeover of Congress in 2006 preceded Obama and was consequence of Bush ushering in the Great Depression 2 – the Electric Fuckyouoverroo. His re-election campaign in 2012 didn’t have any coattails.
Clinton in 1992 and 1996 didn’t have any coattails either. I’d expect most Presidents don’t have much one way or other in major coat-tails. The big lift for getting candidates elected falls on state parties first, and the DSCC and DCCC secondarily. State parties that succeed control state legislatures and state governorships – and thus in turn control the setting of Congressional district boundaries – as well as provide the pipeline of candidates for higher office. No Obama getting elected as an Illinois state senator, no Obama as U.S. Senator, and no Obama as President.
DCF
Bernie Sanders is a BEAST – Bold Leadership
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVS-itGeeEA
goblue72
@Ksmiami: Really? You going to go there? Okay then.
Ksmiami
@Betty Cracker: Um no thank you, but Ms. Rettig seems to get awfully sensitive about any slight criticism of all the issues/groups etc. missing from the Bern campaign. Holding the line on progress is crucial in 2016 but Bernie is taking the Democratic party (of which he was never a part of) for an expensive dangerous ride and one that will crash with ugly results – particularly for the people who can least afford it. I may have been a little inartful with my comment, for which I apologize, but you know, those so called old biddies have fought a very hard, long battle just to make sure women didn’t have to die in fetid back rooms and the enemy is at the gate eager to rip it away.
ruemara
@Ksmiami: that is really unnecessary.
Look you guys, I’m black, relatively poor, chronically ill and I cannot survive a Republican president plus Congress, plus states. And I will not malinger in this fucking hellhole for however long it takes for liberals, progressives and Dems to get their shit together. I could give two fucks for Bern or Hils, but my fuck bank is overdrawn. Neither are perfect, neither are pure and neither have my best interests as a person at heart. So stop acting like this is a battle for the honor of your mom and FOCUS for fuck’s sake. Either won can win the primary, the question is what are not organizations doing to win the general and to govern.
Go back to pissing around, now.
Ksmiami
@goblue72: yes for reproductive rights – I absolutely will.
Cacti
@Ksmiami:
Smh
Really?
goblue72
@Ksmiami: So, elect Sanders and abortion becomes illegal. I’m gonna just go ahead and say you’ve jumped off the deep end of irrationality and have no factual basis in making that (not)analysis.
One might even call it hysterical.
Gin & Tonic
@DCF: Here’s a good piece about Sanders’ leadership.
Betty Cracker
@Ksmiami: Okay, I apologize for my comment too. I objected to the “old biddies” insult above. This primary is getting to me, which means it’s time to go read a book and listen to some music. I’ll be happy to vote for whichever candidate wins.
Ksmiami
@goblue72: @goblue72: No what I am saying is Sanders doesn’t have a chance in hell of being elected President and his followers are the very people who will be the least likely to bear the brunt of the loss.
tybee
@Hillary Rettig:
seems i can vote for a hillary and a bernie simultaneously. :)
Ksmiami
@ruemara: I do know that one candidate is giving money to Democratic state parties and downticket races, another one is lambasting same party as unclean.
singfoom
The circular firing will continue until all the feels improve.
goblue72
@Ksmiami: The eagerness of the enemy is not evidence of the probability of success. Every election is not “THE MOST IMPORTANT ELECTION IN HISTORY EVAH BECAUSE EVIL REPUBLICANS”. The fight to erode reproductive rights has been going on for a long long time preceding this election and will continue long long after. We actually had an anti-choice Republican President AND a Republican Congress controlled by the hard right. And abortion is still legal. Have there been curtailments in certain states – you bet. But that doesn’t have anything to do with who was in the White House (or who controlled Congress) and had a lot to do with who controlled state governments.
The past is no guarantee of future results. But it is a data point. And when the GOP controlled it all – they still couldn’t make it illegal nationwide. So I’m gonna call your “argument” to be extreme, paranoid, and divorced from reality.
goblue72
@Gin & Tonic: Ah, quoting from a website widely acknowledged as a complete rag and run by a rich guy who is a self-acknowledged “centrist” and was a long time member of the Giuliani Administration as Rudy’s speechwriter.
M’kay then.
Citizen Alan
@JanieM:
I thought Steinem’s comments were unfortunate and counter-productive. That said, I have enough empathy to imagine what it would be like to be an 81-year-old feminist icon who is seeing what will probably be the last viable female presidential candidate of Steinem’s lifetime being undercut in the primary by college-age women who prefer a geriatric white male to the most prominent female politician in living memory. Even more so if Steinem believes that Bernie will lose in the general to someone who will gleefully demolish everything Steinem has fought for over the last 50+ years.
Cacti
@goblue72:
That word again from a Berniebro.
This is my shocked face.
Ksmiami
@singfoom: Nope – I’ve said my peace and I hope that whomever is the nominee crushes – I am very concerned though that we will not pull it together in time to win and this country really will not survive a GOP lock. And no GoBlue – I’m not hysterical – I am empathetic to the people who would be crushed by a GOP win and to the fragile gains we’ve made that would be lost.
goblue72
@Cacti: Only if you are a dumbass. As opposed to the fact that I witnessed that whole firestorm over its use in an earlier thread and was quite self-aware in using it.
Jesus, get a clue. Or a motorized wheelchair. Or buy a motorized wheelchair and drive around to find a clue.
NR
@Ksmiami: Hillary doesn’t have a chance in hell of being elected president. Bernie is our only chance.
glory b
@Applejinx: Yeah, because if there’s anyone the media loves, it’s Hillary.
They want a horserace because those are easy to report about and, frankly, Bernie staying on message is good for him but not for them.
Thye aren’t going to want to report, “Well, Bernie gave a speech today that was the same speech he gave every day.”
But Hillary in disaray!” is something to talk about.
I can’t figure out why there is the idea that the same “Benghazi!” “Email!” “Etc!” media is now going to protect her.
DCF
@Gin & Tonic:
Tim Mak is a Senior Correspondent for The Daily Beast. He covers campaign politics, national security and Congress. He previously reported on politics and defense at Politico and the Washington Examiner.
An article written by a former employee of Tiger Beat On The Potomac and a newspaper formerly owned by Moonies and regarded as a second-tier joke in D.C….
I disagree with Senator Sanders on the F35 program, and have made my thoughts/feelings known to his office…unfortunately, within the MIC economy of the United States, I know few (if any) politicians who reject the gains in employment and revenue congruent with its support….
A Ghost To Most
@Marc: @goblue72:
Sad puppies – I have been a liberal longer than you have been alive. I campaigned against Nixon. You telling me I’m doing it wrong. Nice, you have just convinced me to go caucus for HRC.
Keep up the good work.
Ksmiami
@goblue72: Ok Berniebro – It must be nice to be so smugly confident. The Supreme Court will happily undo privacy and reproductive rights with one more “so-called conservative” appointee – good luck with your fantasy.
goblue72
@Ksmiami: While I have been involved in politics a long time and know that every election is not the be all and end all of everything – and as such, do not make my decisions – or choice of advocacy – based on an irrational fear-mongering.
Because that’s what all this is. Fear-mongering. We don’t move forward from a defensive, pre-surrender posture. You are perfectly free to go hide in your hole. I’ll be phone banking this weekend.
tybee
@singfoom:
there’s a lot to be said for a good feel.
Cacti
@goblue72:
I don’t think that phrase means what you think it means, bro.
Gin & Tonic
@DCF: @goblue72: Ah, two comments impugning the backgrounds of the author and/or publisher. How about addressing the facts in the article? If a fact is true, it is true whether it is in a piece by George Will or Noam Chomsky.
A Ghost To Most
@NR:
SAVE US BERNIE-WAN-KENOBI! You are our only hope!
Citizen Alan
@Anoniminous:
Let’s be fair. He almost won the Democratic majority in a red state that gave us Jodi “Pig-Slayer Ernst.
Gin & Tonic
@DCF: BTW, the Washington Examiner and the Washington Times are not the same thing.
schrodinger's cat
@NR: He needs to win the Democratic nomination before that. Let’s see if he can do it.
J R in WV
@glory b:
Am I the only one here who remembers the “Comic” song about traveling abroad” “Don’t Drink the Water, and Don’t Breath the Air!”
Satire, I forget the artist, but they specialized in heavy satire, not at all funny today, with all we know about industrial poisons in the water and in the air. Radioactive waste in the ground water near some of our biggest and most successful cities.
Ok, looked it up, Tom Lehrer, I should have known. Pollution, Pollution!
Marc
@A Ghost To Most: As I haven’t decided who to vote for, no skin off my back. (“can sanders win” is competing with “can clinton win” and “How worried am I about clintons foreign policy”, for what it’s worth.) If you’re invoking Nazi analogies against a Jew, on the other hand, you may want to talk to the Clinton folks about whether they think it’s a good idea. My suspicion is no. Your mileage may vary.
A Ghost To Most
@Citizen Alan:
Not to mention that caucuses are only representative of activist voters in a party, not all voters.
Ksmiami
@A Ghost To Most: ok that was funny.
A Ghost To Most
@Marc:
She was giving her take on a political ad, wondering how not Bernie supporters would view it. There might be bias, but it is a valid question to ask. NR and goblue went off.
WarMunchkin
(source)
More evidence of Sanders giving free stuff to the younger folks to con them into voting for him, or something. Or being the only candidate who has to PAY people – the rest have volunteers. One of the two.
AnonPhenom
@Cacti:
Really. The person who wrote that Simon, Garfunkle and Sanders were each worth $45 million is correcting other peoples’ comment.
“Self-aware” much?
A Ghost To Most
@Ksmiami:
There is … another.
TallPete
@Hillary Rettig: thanks for posting that link- and a good read. The BJ floor is covered in owl shit.
Ksmiami
@goblue72: For the record – DUDE – I faced down anti-abortionists blocking Obama’s Miami headquarters and ended up launching a counter – rally. So no hidey-hole for me. But boy, you really are a good example of why I don’t really take Sanders seriously – he is doing a great job with his supporters turning off loyal Democrats and liberals. Not a winning path.
AnonPhenom
@Gin & Tonic:
And the argument is as facile as the one wing nuts put forth when Buffett said it was a shame that he paid less in taxes (as a percentage of his income) that the people who work for him.
Just a dumb argument.
Brachiator
@Betty Cracker:
I disagree. I am not that concerned about the feels of either people who should know better who say stupid things or of Republicans.
For example, I will always despise Geraldine Ferraro for what she said during the 2008 campaign. If anyone else wants to excuse her or to remember her with fondness, that’s their business. Note, however, that I will not go out of my way to write anything negative about Ferraro simply to enrage anyone who might think well of her.
Gin & Tonic
@AnonPhenom: Sorry, not tracking. Which argument is facile?
AnonPhenom
@Gin & Tonic:
The one you linked to. Have a banana.
Gin & Tonic
@AnonPhenom: I’m sure you’ll enlighten me about what in the article is incorrect or why mentioning Mr. Anti-Military-Industrial-Complex’s robust support of the F-35 program is facile.
J R in WV
@Citizen Alan:
But this was a primary/caucus, so those who gave us Ms Ernst weren’t allowed to participate in the Democratic caucus. I seem to recall that Iowa DEMOCRATS are among the most liberal dems in the nation.
Maybe because their Republican neighbors are such crazed goons?
But for many weeks no one was expecting anything but lots of support for Sen. Sanders, no one was expecting Secretary Clinton to roll in the Iowa caucus.
mapaghimagsik
To me, this is why we need loyal, competent opposition.
It’s not often Balloon Juice shows it’s ass, but when it does, it does it proudly while mopping.
Mnemosyne
@singfoom:
I especially liked the part where they started lecturing a black woman about how they know what’s best for her.
singfoom
@Mnemosyne: I didn’t like any of the parts myself. Nobody’s covered in glory, just derp.
AnonPhenom
@Gin & Tonic:
No. I’ll just tell you that by linking to that garbage you’re making about as convincing an argument as this guy does with his, except he actually went to the trouble to actually write it.
SiubhanDuinne, Annoying Scoundrel
@Ksmiami:
Wow. Seriously? It takes a lot to stun me, but you come close here.
Monala
@WarMunchkin: Are you being sarcastic? Because I think it’s great that Sanders pays his interns. This allows people who care about the candidate, but may not be able to put in time without getting paid (namely, lower income people) to help.
Gin & Tonic
@AnonPhenom: Still waiting for someone to refute the facts. It’s OK, I’m patient.
WarMunchkin
@Monala: Haha, yes, that was a big dollop of snark. Making fun of the average BJ commenter who believes that Millenials follow Sanders because he’s promising free stuff. I’m still a likely Hillary voter, but the fact that he does that gives him eternal props in my book. I’m actually less impressed that Sanders pays his interns than shocked that Clinton and O’Malley didn’t. We’re Democrats, c’monnnn.
Kay
@Monala:
Johnnybuck
@Mnemosyne: word
les
@gene108:
Honest question: Why assume that a single payer will pay more than multiple payers? Universal coverage and cost containment are (for me) the goals; payment system is just means, and there are more than one that work.
A Ghost To Most
@singfoom:
So sticking up for Conster was just derp?
AnonPhenom
@Gin & Tonic:
Me too. Show me yours. I’ll show you mine. (I love this game!)
Bob In Portland
@A Ghost To Most: Can’t help yourself.
Cacti
@AnonPhenom:
No broseph, that was your own inference.
Millionayuhs and Billionayuhs bad…except when giving money to The Bern. Kind of like the sale of indulgences in the medieval church, no?
A Ghost To Most
@Bob In Portland: neither can you. At least I am not getting paid.
Cacti
@AnonPhenom:
I’m making my concerned face, little revolutionary.
AnonPhenom
@Cacti:
No Monkeyboy. Go back and read your comment again. Your only excuse is that English is not your first language and you’ve been in the country less than a decade.
AnonPhenom
@Cacti:
This is my ‘I give a shit’ face.
WarMunchkin
@Kay: I’m young – most of my friends have done unpaid internships at some point or another, and that’s been consistent across industries. The issue of unpaid internships is something that’s come up repeatedly in the last eight or so years and (at least in the circles of people I talk with), we (and, for some families, our parents) look very favorably on companies that treat their interns with the dignity they deserve. And many of my friends have taken unpaid internships just for the promise of a better job in the future (which is frequently a Lucy and the football kind of deal).
Cacti
@AnonPhenom:
I’m sorry that you were the child who was left behind in reading comprehension, broseph.
Take comfort in your participation trophies.
Kay
@WarMunchkin:
I heard a lot of complaints about it from my daughter and her friends a couple of years ago. They thought it was out of control and had gone from “internships” where you’re supposed to be learning something to just blatantly exploiting free labor and them participating in devaluing their own work. I was glad they questioned it.
The campaigns raise hundreds of millions of dollars. They can’t afford 10.10 an hour? Please.
Betty Cracker
@Brachiator: Oh, sorry — I didn’t realize we were talking about your feelings. Never mind, then! You’re the authority on that, obviously!