Balloon Juice Bunker Standoff Update: Conflicting Reports Edition (updated for clarity at 7:55 PM)

We still have four holdouts at the Malheur Wildlife Refuge. They were indicted on Wednesday by a Federal Grand Jury along with the 11 others that had previously been charged. The only way for them to leave the refuge now, provided they don’t decide to do something really stupid, is to be taken into Federal custody. Interestingly enough, as Les Zaitz points out on twitter, Blaine Cooper is not among the indicted. This will likely fuel further conspiracy mongering that he is, in fact, a government infiltrator of the movement. He is also violent and always heavily armed too.

Ammon Bundy decided to issue another statement through his attorney. This one informs us that he and his fellow extremists’ actions were necessary and that Federal and state law enforcement need to leave Harney County. This follows his previous statements that the remaining four holdouts need to leave and that he respects Article III Courts and Article III judges. These statements are coded language remarks. They appear to say one thing to those outside the culture and another to those inside. I’ll let the lawyers within our commentariat weigh in, but I would expect that if he keeps making these statements all he is going to do is set himself up for trouble with the prosecutors and the judge assigned to his case. His father Cliven isn’t helping things as he’s now claimed authority over the refuge and those still occupying it.

Speaking of judges: the US District Chief Judge handling the cases affirmed the ruling of the Federal magistrate that did the arraignments in Oregon, and refused Pete Santilli bail, or any other form of release. Chief District Judge Mosman is very concerned about Santilli’s remarks threatening to kill Federal officers if they were to try to take his guns away or arrest him. John Ritzheimer was also denied release by US District Judge Willett because he poses a danger to the community and is a flight risk. He is to be transported to Federal detention in Oregon to await further proceedings. Finally, Harney County Judge and Executive Grasty replied to the grievance he received from the Pacific Patriots Network (PPN) indicating that he, Sheriff Ward, and two county commissioners would not be resigning. Nor would anyone be arresting any Federal or Oregon State officers and charging them with the murder of LaVoy Finicum as the Deschutes County Major Incident Team is reviewing the shooting.

The Oregon Sheriff’s Association issued a statement explaining the role of the sheriff, as well as why the events at the Malheur Wildlife Refuge are illegal. Notice the language about taking up arms against local and Federal governments:

Response-to-Questions-Regarding-the-Oregon-Office-of-Sheriff

Finicum’s funeral was today and the fact that fellow travelers and supporters from all over the US were going to attend caused a great deal of concern that something might be planned for today or over the weekend. At one point last night JJ McNabb in her twitter feed indicated she had an uneasy feeling about this. Fortunately she was able to report today that the PPN’s Call to Action for tomorrow has been cancelled. That doesn’t necessarily mean anything isn’t still planned. Some of the concern was generated by a call to the Sheriff by the staff of the Oregon Trail Interpretive Center over a suspicious man who entered the Center. There was also a Facebook posting by the rancher that Finicum convinced to formally renounce his grazing agreement that specifically identified interest in the Interpretive Center in connection with the militia meet up at Halfway, OR tomorrow. Since we have conflicting reports, there may be something happening tomorrow or they may not be something happening tomorrow.

Finally, there’s this very interesting, and long, video dealing with what is going on at the refuge, as well as with the beliefs of those involved with the occupation. It was done by a pair of political science graduates from Oregon State. While the whole thing is interesting, the two really begin to deal with the beliefs, doctrines, and ideologies of the occupiers around the 22 minute mark. Please note: I found the link to this on JJ McNabb’s twitter feed and I cannot in any way verify that these two men actually went out and spoke to anyone. I would guess that she can’t either. So take the video for what it is.






110 replies
  1. 1
    Bobby Thomson says:

    No code switch. He’s basically just waived any thought of bail and ensured his sentence is severe. His lawyers are incompetent or creating an appeal point for other lawyers or both.

  2. 2
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @efgoldman: which is why I suggested they might be creating an appeal point on purpose. If they are competent they know this doesn’t end well for their client, yet they passed his message on publicly.

  3. 3
    Mike in DC says:

    Cleon Skousen is not a good touchstone for Con Law.

  4. 4
    debbie says:

    I don’t know who was talking in code to whom or what they were trying to say in their code, but I do know this is a pile of crap:

    “Government officials chose to end our educational efforts with attacks of force and it appears they attempt to do it again,”

    Where in the Constitution or in any of the Founders’ writing is there support for education at gunpoint?

  5. 5
    Soylent Green says:

    Yes, Otto, apes do read the Constitution. They just don’t understand it.

  6. 6
    Southern Goth says:

    These statements are coded language remarks and utilize code switching. They appear to say one thing to those outside the culture and another to those inside.

    Is that code-switching or dog-whistling?

  7. 7
    Wapiti says:

    @Bobby Thomson: At a minimum, the Bundy brothers’ bail amounts should be set high enough to cover the outstanding grazing fees on family property.

    These two have participated in two stand-offs with the feds. imho, the chance of them being involved in a third stand-off, with more deaths, is high enough they probably shouldn’t be allowed out on bail.

  8. 8
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @efgoldman: conspiracy is already in the charges. The issue is that the material support to terrorism statutes are only for foreign terrorist organizations. So the closest they can do in charging these guys with something similar is conspiracy and aiding and abetting as ramp ups. So they can’t hit them with charges for 70 plus years in jail to hopefully get them to take a deal for 20.

  9. 9
    The Republic, Blah Blah Blah... says:

    This one informs us that he and his fellow extremists’ actions were necessary and that Federal and state law enforcement need to leave Harney County.

    Yes… I’m sure all the individuals pertinent to the situation – FBI, OSP, Harney County Sheriff, prosecutors, judges – will all read that and somehow agree…

    “Bundy’s got us, boys… the jig’s up… time to vamoose and head for Mexico or mebbe Canada…”

  10. 10
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Southern Goth: the former. The language used means one thing to those outside the group and another to those inside it.

  11. 11
    The Republic, Blah Blah Blah... says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    So they can’t hit them with charges for 70 plus years in jail to hopefully get them to take a deal for 20.

    Well color me disappointed…

  12. 12
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @debbie: Yeah, I heard that “education effort” line and just about lost my lunch. How stupid does this stupid shit think the rest of us are?

    Need more charges, convict them on every one of them, and then they serve the sentences consecutively, no possibility of parole. Lock these stupid motherfuckers up FOREVER.

  13. 13
    Baud says:

    Somewhat OT

    (CNN)New Hampshire voters may be stunned to hear the latest robocall asking for their vote; it’s from white nationalists with a simple, disturbing message.

    “We don’t need Muslims. We need smart, educated, white people,” according to the male voice on the calls, which began Thursday night and urge voters in New Hampshire to vote for Donald Trump.

    Three white nationalist leaders have banded together to form their own super PAC in support of Trump, even though Trump doesn’t want their support.

  14. 14
    Roger Moore says:

    @Wapiti:

    imho, the chance of them being involved in a third stand-off, with more deaths, is high enough they probably shouldn’t be allowed out on bail.

    I think the chances of them getting out on bail are somewhere in the neighborhood of President Obama changing parties in his remaining time in office.

  15. 15
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @Adam L Silverman: except it doesn’t. It’s transparent.

  16. 16
    Roger Moore says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    the former. The language used means one thing to those outside the group and another to those inside it.

    Using a single statement that means different things to different people is dog whistling. Code switching is when you change the language or dialect you’re using. Linguists use “code switching” to refer to the way that multi-lingual people will sometimes switch from one language to the other during a conversation while still using each language correctly, e.g. saying one sentence in one language and another in another. Sociologists use “code switching” to refer to the way people will change language or dialect according to setting, e.g. blacks who speak “white English” in formal settings or when whites are around and “black English” in informal settings among other blacks.

  17. 17
    RSA says:

    I suspect this has been noted by everyone and his or her brother or sister, but if you have an ambitious plan for changing the world, starting off in a place whose name translates to “misfortune” is not a good omen.

  18. 18
    The Republic, Blah Blah Blah... says:

    @RSA: No but that and the dildos that arrived in the mail were truly appropriate…

  19. 19
    singfoom says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: Well obviously by your reaction you still need more education. Can I interest you in a pamphlet about the ShireReeves and their duty as Constitushonal Law Officers able to be judge jury and executioner?

    It’s all there in The US Constitution – Sovereign Citizen Edition II: More Sovereign.

    Man, all this time Bundy and his ilk were just trying to teach us something. And now people want them prosecuted? You might as well prosecute Big Bird! He educates people too!

  20. 20
    amk says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    the difference being?

  21. 21
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @efgoldman: @The Republic, Blah Blah Blah…: I was saving this for a follow on post, but here’s the link to the Reuters’ article on this topic:
    http://www.reuters.com/article.....SKCN0VD0FG

  22. 22
    p.a. says:

    @singfoom: All Sovereign Citizens are sovereign. Some are more sovereign than others.

  23. 23
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @debbie: @Villago Delenda Est: I think that gotten written up inarticulately. What they’re saying is that the government used force to interrupt their educational efforts. Not that the educational efforts were being done by force. Though, if you’re making a show of being armed and claiming to be teaching folks at the same time, you might be able to go with the latter interpretation too.

  24. 24
    Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class says:

    @Bobby Thomson:

    He’s the only one who has private counsel; they’re as stupid as he is but have enough animal cunning to preserve their licenses. The rest have federal public defenders. They’re shrill but competent, and doing what they’re supposed to do; Santilli got a better hearing than he deserved, and a couple of the others got released.

  25. 25
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Baud: They did the same thing in Iowa. When Trump was asked about it and asked if he’d disavow it, he waffled. Tough guy that one.

  26. 26
    debbie says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I haven’t heard anything from these guys which seems educative in the least. They’re certainly inarticulate, but they’re very delusional if they think they’re teaching the country anything.

  27. 27
    amk says:

    Do all the get prisoners get the privilege of ‘getting out their message’ via their atty?

  28. 28
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Roger Moore: You’re correct on the linguistics definition, but it is used much more loosely in the social sciences. When I deal with an Iraqi sheikh or Imam or other elite or notable or a displaced Iraqi and they say something that means one thing to the American military personnel I’m with and another to the Iraqis that are with them because Arabic is that malleable a language, its not dog whistling. Its a type/variant of code switching. And I can’t write it up in my Engagement analysis and notes of the interaction as dog whistling because that connotes something very specific to Americans – military or civilian. So we use code switching. Its not a perfect use, but it works. Coded language might be better and I’ll go and edit the original post to reflect that.

  29. 29
    JGabriel says:

    Adam Silverman @ Top:

    I’ll let the lawyers within our commentariat weigh in, but I would expect that if he keeps making these statements all he is going to do is set himself up for trouble with the prosecutors and the judge assigned to his case.

    I’m not a lawyer either, but I suspect Bundy is setting himself up for the maximum sentence of whatever charges he’s ultimately convicted on. Judges really don’t like it when criminals, terrorists, and insurrectionists:

    A) Refuse to show contrition, and
    B) Insist that their lawbreaking actions were right and necessary.

  30. 30
    The Republic, Blah Blah Blah... says:

    @debbie: I think we established they’re delusional quite some time ago…

    Perhaps they’re angling towards an insanity defense at this point…

  31. 31
    jl says:

    So what do the sovereign citizens do when they come up against having to defer to a Deschutes County investigation? That is a Constitutional County, right?

    Or is just some 14th amendment admiralty county with a fringe around the edges pretending to be a real county? Or has it lost its sovereign county status because of traitorous cooperation with the illegitimate State of Oregon and US federal government?

  32. 32
    Steve in the ATL says:

    I’ll let the lawyers within our commentariat weigh in, but I would expect that if he keeps making these statements all he is going to do is set himself up for trouble with the prosecutors and the judge assigned to his case.

    You guys always make me feel so inadequate. I can never answer these questions! I’ll jump in if Ammon and the boys are accused of sexual harassment, discrimination, or wage and hour violations, and even union busting.

    i felt more at home when I read that the judge handled their grievance the same we deal with union grievances at my company!

  33. 33
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Soylent Green:

    OK, that one wins the internet…

  34. 34
    debbie says:

    @Baud:

    It can be fun watching the more oddball PACs because they’re accountable to no one, especially the candidate they’re supposedly supporting.

    I remember one PAC from 2012, America Future Fund, who ran an attack ad. I can’t find it on youtube, but the audio (in a doomful, sneering, low voice) was very simple: “Obama likes Wall Street, and Wall Street likes Obama.” I remember thinking that very few Wall Streeters would be happy seeing that ad.

    There was another, low-fi kind of ad by a very wealthy Russian Jewish businessman. In a heavily accented voice, he railed against Obama’s brand of communism and what it could do to the country he’s come to love. He warned that America could become Russia. He then looked into the camera and said, “Believe me, I know from oppression.”

    Oy. Anyway, these ads can be as entertaining as the Super Bowl ads.

  35. 35
    The Republic, Blah Blah Blah... says:

    Now, I’m not a lawyer but I occasionally like to play one in the recesses of my own mind…

    But… and so…

    Somewhere there’s a thought floating around in my head that if someone dies in the course of committing a crime, their accomplices can be held responsible for the death, no?

    Say three people set out to rob a bank, and in the course of doing so, one of them gets in a shootout w/ the police and is killed… can’t the other two be charged for that? Is that only in CA?

    And if this is true, can some of the others associated w/ Finicum be charged in his death?

  36. 36
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @singfoom: Here’s the link to the Constitution they are all reading:
    http://www.nccs.net/products/o.....tution.php
    The link goes to the organization set up by Cleon Skousen himself.
    And here’s his five volume US Constitution:
    http://www.nccs.net/products/b.....tution.php

    Here’s a link to an article that delineates some of his views on the Constitution:
    http://www.latterdayconservati.....stitution/

  37. 37
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @amk: No Ammon is the only one with a billing by the hour attorney. His brother and the other original ten taken into custody all got public defenders. I’m not sure if Ritzheimer has a public defender or an attorney that is billing him, but since he’s basically broke I’m guessing a PD.

  38. 38
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Adam L Silverman: So they were teaching each other how to use the dildos?

    I’m lost here. If it’s constitutional law they were trying to teach, it was fail from the getgo. The Hammonds were prosecuted and convicted in a very public way, the evidence presented convinced a jury, and the issue of whether or not they’d have to serve the five years was due to sentencing guidelines that a Republican Congress established.

    I think I just go with “these are loonies” and that settles it.

  39. 39
    JGabriel says:

    CNN via Baud:

    Three white nationalist leaders have banded together to form their own super PAC in support of Trump, even though Trump doesn’t want their support.

    They did the same thing in Iowa. Makes me wonder if those calls played a part in Trump underperforming in IA, and if they’ll have that effect in New Hampshire too.

    American Conservatism may be primarily driven by systemic racism, but Conservatives tend to be pretty shocked when openly racist leaders support their candidates – especially in the Northeast.

  40. 40
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Adam L Silverman: What watch list do we get put on for clicking those links? I’m already considered a risk as a registered Democrat.

  41. 41
    Emily68 says:

    @efgoldman: Yes, this is my question: Are Ammond Bundy’s lawyers true believers or real lawyers–at least accepting the validity of Federal Court? If they are real lawyers, why on earth keep releasing these tapes? It’s not exactly helping Bundy’s cause.

  42. 42
    SiubhanDuinne, Annoying Scoundrel says:

    @Roger Moore:

    When I lived in Flint (or it might have been Battle Creek — so long ago I don’t remember, and it doesn’t matter anyhow), I went out half a dozen times with a nice AA guy. Happened to be my dentist. He invariably spoke the Queen’s English until one night when he took me out to dinner and we ran across some of his friends. He immediately code-switched into what I would later call “Ebonics” — it was the most fascinating thing I’ve ever seen, the way he moved effortlessly back and forth between standard English and Black American patois.

  43. 43
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @efgoldman: aside from the fact that the State Department has no domestic jurisdiction? Nothing is stopping them. Domestic terrorism determination are made by the Department of Justice. They used to, as in before the PATRIOT Act, have to open a domestic security file for the case for it to be considered domestic terrorism. I was never clear if that was changed by the PATRIOT Act or not. But they are the appropriate department to make that determination.

  44. 44

    @Adam L Silverman: Mmm, disagree. Code-switching is a change of dialect; dog-whistling is something that means something different to the intended in-group. When I code-switch, it’s by not saying “Bye Felicia” to straight white baby boomers. When I quote Norman Bates to a group of largely straight millenials it’s dog-whistling.

  45. 45
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @efgoldman: I went to a Jewish day school and a Jesuit high school. The faculty and staff had far more frightening methods of social control and pedagogy than MAC 10s.

    BTW: I then went to a Methodist university. All told this triple whammy, perhaps, explains a lot.

  46. 46
    JGreen says:

    The non-public legal defense a few of these nuts have already know they have taken on a loser. There is always the possibility of a miracle… but this is nothing more than a calculated business decision.

    Just as Zimmerman and Wilson received piles of cash via Internet coffee cans…. so too will the recognizable names among the Bundy Bunch. Ammon’s lawyer is already bragging about the Internet cash windfall from “true believers”.. most likely derived from people sending in a portion of their government disability or aid checks.

    Currently the Bunch is just facing a single conspiracy charge that carries a maximum timed served of 6 years plus fines. The indictment can be amended to add charges and conspirators… but they have until actual trial to do so. There is nothing that says new indictment for further charges can’t be piled on.

    As for the authenticity of the video.. The images are from Malheur, and the clip at the end is of Cox attempting to educate the educated. It is painful to watch.. But the two young men are indeed at Malheur.

  47. 47
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: I prefer the technical term: whackaloons. But I’m good with your determination too.

  48. 48
    E says:

    @The Republic, Blah Blah Blah…: Yes, it is called Felony Murder, but I think when all you are doing is riding in a truck driven by a man who refuses to be pulled over it’s hard to make it stick. If one of his passengers had died but he had lived, Finicum could probably have been charged with it.

  49. 49
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    God, thank you for wading thru’ all this crap so I don’t have to. I feel like I need to keep up on it, because there are people in my community who have started spouting the kind of stuff these dipsticks apparently believe and I kind of want to know what to watch out for, but I just don’t think I could handle all of it on my own. The precis (what’s the plural of precis?) have been very helpful.

  50. 50
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Steve in the ATL: I have no idea.

  51. 51
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Steve in the ATL: I clicked on them. The first two are basically sales pitches without going into any detail about what’s being sold. The third put me to sleep after a couple of paragraphs, apparently clear communication gets in the way of pushing Skousen’s ideas. These people are mindless nitpickers, missing the entire Taiga for the trees.

  52. 52
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Emily68: Here’s the link to the firm’s website:
    http://arnoldlawfirm.com/ammon-bundy/
    And here’s some reporting that they may actually be accessories to Bundy’s law breaking:
    http://www.opb.org/news/series.....ccupation/

    Or they’re going to argue that everything Bundy and his extremist buddies did is covered under attorney client privilege.

    Apparently even the paid attorneys involved with this are dumb as a box of rocks and/or delusional.

  53. 53
    lgerard says:

    I watched that video this morning and it was somewhat interesting, particularly the clip of Shawna Cox delivering a lecture at the whiteboard. She makes Sarah Palin seem like a combination of Sophocles and Henry Higgins.

    It was interesting to hear them acknowledge that the terrorists seemed to have little in common with each other (which I think we knew) and that they had devolved into cliques and were hiding food from each other. Maybe that is why they were so desperate for snacks.

    They also painted a very grim picture of Sean Anderson’s mental health.

  54. 54
    jl says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    “I clicked on them. ”

    We’ve all known for a while that you are a very desperate person with nothing left to lose.

  55. 55
    Southern Goth says:

    @JGabriel:

    The northern-eastern/mid-western cryptofascist vote gets pretty touchy if you try to strip away the crypto.

  56. 56
    Sad_Dem says:

    @Roger Moore:

    Linguists use “code switching” to refer to the way that multi-lingual people will sometimes switch from one language to the other during a conversation while still using each language correctly, e.g. saying one sentence in one language and another in another.

    In Los Angeles, there are some great code-switchers who flow gracefully from English to Spanish and back again according to whether something is better said in one language or the other. It can happen within a sentence as well. I’ve heard the same is true in Francophone Canada.

  57. 57
    Roger Moore says:

    @jl:

    So what do the sovereign citizens do when they come up against having to defer to a Deschutes County investigation?

    The same thing they did when the sheriff of Harney County didn’t go along: claim he’s been corrupted by the feds and convene a citizens’ grand jury to try anyone involved.

  58. 58
    dc says:

    @efgoldman:
    Vía John Sepulvado’s twitter, an article about ehtincal questions around Ammon Bundy’s legal team:

    http://www.opb.org/news/series.....ccupation/

  59. 59
    Mike J says:

    @Adam L Silverman: It does bother me that the copy editors of that piece weren’t aware of the custom of italicizing non-english phrases. The attorney’s use of italics with pro bono wasn’t emphasis, and a professional copy editor seemed to think it was.

    But yeah, attys shouldn’t be out beating the bushes for clients.

  60. 60

    […] Green February 5, 2016 at 7:15 pm Yes, Otto, apes do read the Constitution. They just don’t understand […]

  61. 61
    The Republic, Blah Blah Blah... says:

    @efgoldman: You mean like that scene at the start of the Blues Brothers movie, when John Belushi is getting out of prison and the guard gives him his personal possessions back?

  62. 62
    The Republic, Blah Blah Blah... says:

    @efgoldman: @E: Just trying to help anyway I can…

  63. 63
    oklahomo says:

    @debbie:It’s like the Bible Code, the Forefathers left acrostics hidden for the true Sons of Liberty to find.

  64. 64
    Fair Economist says:

    Of course they’re being defiant and insisting the government was wrong. That’s how you get a jury to find you innocent! Didn’t you folks read The Fountainhead? Besides, opponents of government power are better looking and get more sex (that’s in Atlas Shrugged).

  65. 65

    @efgoldman: I am multilingual. Besides English I can speak Marathi and Hindi, also read and write those languages.
    I am not going to win any literary contests in Hindi or be able to snark but I know enough Hindi to be understood and get by.

    Whenever I speak to my parents, I am switching back and forth between two languages without even consciously thinking about it.

  66. 66
    El Caganer says:

    These people are trying to educate us? I don’t need to be educated in how to be stupid; I figured that out all on my own a long time ago.

  67. 67
    Roger Moore says:

    @Sad_Dem:
    I get to hear English-Mandarin code switching every day at lunch. I don’t think my coworkers are fully conscious of the way they’re using language, because they’re regularly puzzled at the way I and some of their other non-Mandarin-speaking coworkers can figure out what they’re talking about. Even when they’re not slipping in an English sentence or two, they’ll often speak in Chinglish because they’ve all been in the US for long enough that there are plenty of concepts where they’re more familiar with the English than Mandarin terms for.

  68. 68
    The Republic, Blah Blah Blah... says:

    @efgoldman:

    Prison Guard

    “And let’s see… what do we have here, Ammon?

    One dildo, big… another dildo, big… another dildo big… and yet ANOTHER dildo, big…

    Ammon

    “Uh… that last one isn’t mine… I think it’s one of Ritzheimer’s…”

  69. 69
    burnspbesq says:

    I feel for the poor AUSA who is going to have to argue the motion for forfeiture of the dildos. Going to be tough to keep appropriate demeanor.

  70. 70
  71. 71

    I is in moderation. Help!

  72. 72
    Gravenstone says:

    @Baud: Donald “Dances with Racists” Trump is only getting his just desserts.

  73. 73
    Gravenstone says:

    @Emily68: As they’re billing by the hour, acceding to their client’s wishes (i.e. releasing Bundy’s little manifestos) does help keep them in his employ longer.

  74. 74

    @amk: I never spoke in Hindi with my Pakistani housemate. She was a Mohajir from Karachi. Her Urdu was so beautiful, I was in awe.

  75. 75
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: sorry, got side tracked. A good friend hit me with an request for information hoping I could connect him with the appropriate folks at my former higher headquarters. You’re free now.

  76. 76
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    @efgoldman: That (multilinguals swapping into anothwe language) is really a technical lingual specific use of “code switching.” Sociologically it’s called “code switching” because the change of dialect signals (is coded for) membership in the affinity group being addressed. It’s the dialect that counts – I can speak both street and business professional, and each is appropriate in a specific setting.

    Adam correctly identified that the terminology he was reaching for was “coded language,” and edited accordingly.

    @Mike J: I noticed that and found it annoying. How could a competent copy editor (or even reporter/writer, in my view) think that was italicized for emphasis?

  77. 77
    amk says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: No tamil, hubby’s lang?

  78. 78
    Chip Daniels says:

    @The Republic, Blah Blah Blah…:

    “I swear baby, that’s not my bag!”

  79. 79

    @amk: Nope, I can barely understand a few proper nouns here and there. I can actually speak some Bengali and Gujarati and I took two semesters of German in college but Tamil is incomprehensible to me.

  80. 80
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    @burnspbesq: I bet Ritzheimer took them back to AZ when he went home for goodbyes. But if any were in a stopped vehicle, you’re right that it’s gonna be a hella interesting argument since they are subject to forfeiture.

  81. 81

    @Adam L Silverman: No problem! It was nothing of earth shattering importance.

  82. 82
    amk says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: just 247 letters. easypeasy.

  83. 83
    E says:

    @The Republic, Blah Blah Blah…: We read a case in law school about a guy who refused to pull over for a traffic stop and instigated a high-speed chase. Two news helicopters collided while filming it, resulting in I can’t remember how many deaths. The driver was charged with felony murder because he should have been able to foresee that these kinds of deaths can result from fleeing from the police. I thought that was pretty tenuous, myself, but it sure did serve to illustrate the principle.

    The principle being, don’t fuck with the Man.

  84. 84
    The Republic, Blah Blah Blah... says:

    @E: Well, as far as those clowns up in Oregon go, one can hope…

  85. 85

    @amk: For you, may be. I didn’t know any Madrasis growing up.

    *ducks*

  86. 86
    Steve in the ATL says:

    So…he is ok with Article III courts, which are delineated in the Constitution (at least in the real one). Is he implying that he not ok with Article I courts, since they are merely created by Congress? Which he may think is illegitimate? God help us if he opines on Article IV courts.

    My IQ is over 50 so I can’t quite follow sovereign citizen logic.

  87. 87
    amk says:

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    I left out 247 letters and their permutations and combinations there of. Son unit hated it during school days, which is compulsory around here. It was a big relief for him (and us, phew) when he got into college.

    Madrasis are nice peeps.

  88. 88
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Steve in the ATL: Yeah, he’s okay with Article III courts. The question is whether he’s going to pull the “this court isn’t an Article III court, I will only accept the authority of an Article III court” once things get under way.

  89. 89

    @amk: Husband kitteh grew up in Mumbai so he can’t read or write Tamil. His Marathi is so so, we mainly communicate in English.

  90. 90

    @amk: Husband kitteh grew up in Mumbai so he can’t read or write Tamil. His Marathi is so so, we mainly communicate in English.

    Agreed about Madrasis. M-I-L grew up in Matunga and is more Tamil than many Madrasis.

  91. 91
    amk says:

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    Your last line – insult or compliment? :)

  92. 92
    J R in WV says:

    @efgoldman: :

    Listening to Navajo Nation Radio is much like that. They will be cooking along in Navajo, and come to a reality not contained in Navajo, like funerals for a Medal of Honor Code Talker who died. Navajo doesn’t have words for funeral, or ceremonies related to death of any kind. So then the radio announcer slips English into the Navajo sentence just as smooth as can be!

    So when a national hero dies, they have to deal with it, even if it doesn’t relate to Navajo customs or beliefs.

  93. 93
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    The question is whether he’s going to pull the “this court isn’t an Article III court, I will only accept the authority of an Article III court” once things get under way.

    He can pull it til his dad’s cows come home, but it won’t make a damn bit of difference to the judge, AUSA, and especially the bailiff who escorts him back to his cell!

  94. 94
    burnspbesq says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    That lot are definitely not down with the Tax Court, which is an Article I court. Dunno about the Court of Federal Claims.

  95. 95
    Jay S says:

    Here’s a description of the ‘educational’ program they were conducting in the area. Their own interpretation of the Constitution.

  96. 96
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @burnspbesq: I sat next to one of these idiots on a long flight a couple of years ago and he kept yammering about this and that. When he finally asked me if I’d ever actually read the constitution, I said, “Yes, I have. Several times. In fact, I studied it in great detail for two semesters of law school. We even covered the 16th amendment which expressly and unequivocally allows Congress to levy a federal income tax.” He got very quiet.

    Then I reminded him that, as he had told me, he graduated from public schools, then joined the Air Force, and has worked for GSA since leaving it, so his entire life has been provided and paid for by the government that he claims is illegitimate.

    I then cursed the Delta Million Milers on the plane who took all the upgrades and forced me to sit next to a moron in coach.

  97. 97
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Steve in the ATL: I’m tracking. Just not sure if they’re going to turn this into a circus or not.

  98. 98
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    He can pull it til his dad’s cows come home, but it won’t make a damn bit of difference to the judge, AUSA, and especially the bailiff who escorts him back to his cell!

    Yep, at this point, his belief (or lack thereof) in the court doesn’t affect its power over him.

    Edited slightly.

  99. 99

    @amk: Neither, its the truth.
    BTW I have been to Kodai, Madurai, Tirunelveli and Kanyakumari but never to Madras (Chennai). I actually have some second cousins who live in Madras. Its on my list of places to visit.

  100. 100
    Jay S says:

    @Jay S: OK Whoops I thought I left out the link but it is under description after all.

  101. 101
    oklahomo says:

    @Jay S: It’s certainly educational in that Cliven Bundy needs to do some time, since he’s being used as a bullet-point in the “Sedition Works” promotional series.

  102. 102
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @oklahomo: This is going to be Cliven’s downfall. The more he decides to interject himself into this, especially if some of these people decide to do something stupid tomorrow, the more pressure he is going to create for his arrest.

  103. 103
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @efgoldman: I think that it is a little like speeding. I am a lead foot, but as long as I stay below 80 in a 70 zone, it isn’t worth the cop to bother. Above that, I am at much more risk. i think that the Bundys were previously were staying below the “we are really going after you” threshold.

  104. 104
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @efgoldman: I agree completely. I still don’t really understand the thinking behind the strategy used in dealing with him to this point. As Dave Neiwert and others have pointed out it has clearly made the current standoff possible and made others more likely as well.

  105. 105
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @efgoldman: We obviously disagree about the strategy and tactics of the whole Bundy thing. I am, so far, impressed at the number assholes who have been arrested with so few casualties. It is slow, and it is not cathartic – but I think they are pulling everyone in.

  106. 106
    amk says:

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    Look me up when you are in these parts of the desert. We can together roast your hubby unit for not knowing tamil.

  107. 107
    NorthLeft12 says:

    U.S. District Chief Justice Michael W. Mosman affirmed a decision to detain Pete Santili pending trial, saying he was disturbed by several remarks Santilli made during his online broadcasts promising to shoot federal officers if they came to take him or his guns away.

    Finally! For years these RWNJs have been making threats while armed and the media and LEOs did nothing but shrug. Nice to see a judge hold them accountable for their free speech.

    I am sure [for a lot of Republicans and TPers] that this is just another example of Political Correctness run amok.

  108. 108
    wvng says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I remain confused that these goons are not being charged with seditious conspiracy. It clearly applies in this case, and carries much heavier maximum sentences.

    18 US Code 2384: “If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

  109. 109
    Emily68 says:

    @Steve in the ATL: I never went to law school, but I did have to read the Constitution in the 8th grade. We studied it slowly and carefully and learned all the different stuff of which branch is in charge of what, how a bill becomes law, etc, etc. That was in 1963, and I could have straightened this guy out, too.

  110. 110
    KB says:

    @The Republic, Blah Blah Blah…: Oregon’s felony murder statute doesn’t apply if the murderee is one of the felons:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_murder_rule_(Oregon)

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