Post-Debate Open Thread: Noo Yark Citeee Values!

Those Statue-of-Liberty values (give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free… )? The notorious claw-your-way-out-of-poverty-and-obscurity, anything-to-make-a-dollar, I-could-care-less-which-church-you-attend, first capital city of America values?

As reported during the Guardian liveblog:

Bartiromo asks Cruz about Cruz’s dig at Trump for having “New York values”. What did he mean by that?

“I think most people know exactly what New York values are,” Cruz says. And then to Bartiromo:

You’re from New York, so you might not. …Everyone understands that the values of New York City are socially liberal, pro-abortion, pro-gay marriage, centered on money.

Not a lot of conservatives come out of Manhattan. I’m just sayin.’

Trump replies: “Conservatives actually do come out of Manhattan, including William F Buckley and others… New York is a great place, it’s got great people, it’s got loving people,” Trump says.

Then he plays the 9/11 card:

When the World Trade Center came down, I saw something that no place on earth could have handled more beautifully, more humanely.

Even the smell of death, it was with us for months. And we rebuilt. … That was a very insulting statement that Ted made.

I was born in NYC, I got the hell out as soon as I could (age 17-3/4), and I’d still defend it against Ted Cruz to the death. His death.

“Former presidential campaign spox & senior Congressional aide” (& Rubio supporter):

So’s the San Francisco media, of course —

ETA:






67 replies
  1. 1
    Adam L Silverman says:

    Didn’t mean to bigfoot you, I just put a site maintenance update up on the slow down issue. I’ll pull it and reschedule it for 3 AM.

  2. 2
    Anne Laurie says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Good timing, we haz it!

  3. 3
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Anne Laurie: Part of it was I couldn’t for the life of me tell when this post was going live. I could see it in the cue, see you occasionally working on it, see it locked, but the verdammt dashboard doesn’t give me the info until you’ve either posted or scheduled it. So I was going to put it up as a temporary open thread till you went live with this. Anyhow, its now set for 3 AM when no one will see it.

  4. 4
    amk says:

    @srv: rudy? who skipped out with donor money after the first round, that rudy?

  5. 5
    chopper says:

    yeah, attacking the place 9/11 happened in a republican debate was a real bush league move, ted. every time i start to think this guy’s actually smart he pulls off some boneheaded shit like this. couldn’t happen to a more deserving prick.

  6. 6
    lgerard says:

    @amk:

    No.

    The one who does the late night commercials for that scam company

  7. 7
    Oldgold says:

    “except for maybe Iowa, Welfare Queens of the Midwest”

    Iowa evangelicals have a lot to answer for, but being welfare queens is not one of them. And, yes, I am very familiar with the farm program.

  8. 8
    bago says:

    Goddamn. When Trump says you’ve gone too far…

  9. 9
    hilts says:

    “I was born in NYC, I got the hell out as soon as I could”

    Anne,

    Why did you feel compelled to take a gratuitous cheap shot at NYC in this thread?

  10. 10
    Ruckus says:

    @hilts:
    Lots of people get the hell out of where they were born as soon as they can. Some places there is ample and valid reasons for, others? Who the hell knows. Or cares.

  11. 11
    lgerard says:

    I was born in New York City, and left in my early twenties. But I also lived in Texas, and to borrow from the great Alfred E Smith:

    I would rather be a lamppost in New York City then be the Senator from Texas.

  12. 12
    jl says:

    Bernie watched the debate, so I didn’t have to:

    So, yes, we are going to expand, not cut, Social Security benefits. #GOPDebate
    https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/687850916263809025

    Guy is acting a little cocky.

  13. 13
    David *Rafael* Koch says:

    so many people said Cruz was a great debater. I never saw that.

    tonight proved me right. he stepped right into a well illuminated trap and lost to a low information carnival barker.

  14. 14
    Betty Cracker says:

    Maybe I’m dead wrong about this, but I don’t think Cruz’s NYC remark will hurt him at all. Most GOPers do think NYC is Sodom & Gomorrah, even if they can’t stop humping 9/11.

  15. 15
    hilts says:

    @Ruckus:

    If Anne wants to mock Cruz for taking a cheap shot at NYC, it’s hypocritical of her to diss NYC.

  16. 16
    David *Rafael* Koch says:

    @jl: I’m sure weasel paul ryan is writing out the blank check right now.

  17. 17
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    When Failgunner Ted said New York values, I’m thinking that’s gona leave a mark on ol’ Ted.

  18. 18
    Anne Laurie says:

    @hilts: Full disclosure.

  19. 19
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @srv:

    I have no idea why all the nukular silos are in Montana and the Dakotas.

    Cause you’re a moron?

  20. 20
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Betty Cracker: I’m one to think you’re wrong on this one. tRump schooled him on that.

  21. 21
    chopper says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    Cruz ain’t gonna be coughing that phrase up any time soon. wish I could say the same for every other English phrase. or word, really.

  22. 22
    David *Rafael* Koch says:

    igorvolsky ‏@igorvolsky 18m18 minutes ago

    Missed this during #GOPDebate but apparently @tedcruz touted the endorsement of a gun rights group that has ties to white supremacists.

    48 retweets 51 likes

    ooops.

  23. 23
    David *Rafael* Koch says:

    Alex Parker @AlexParkerDC

    Larry Tribe saying it’s not hard to imagine a Secretary of State refusing to put Cruz on the ballot because he wasn’t born on U.S. soil.

    Retweets
    19
    Likes
    15

    8:51 PM – 14 Jan 2016

    BirtherGate grows.

  24. 24
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @David *Rafael* Koch: I noticed that, Gun Owners of America.

  25. 25
    Helen says:

    @Oldgold:

    welfare queens

    AHH Queens. Yeah I love living in Queens, Oh wait, what? Were you are talking about being a welfare queen? Dunno nothing about that. As a NYC values person. What with all my highest taxes in the history of taxes paying for all those Americans.

  26. 26
    David *Rafael* Koch says:

    NM NY 2 hours ago

    Least self-aware comment tonight: Christie complaining that Senators are not held personally accountable, while Governors are held accountable for everything they do and say. Christie, please revisit Bridgegate and listen to yourself joking that you were the guy moving the cones.

    110 Recommend

  27. 27
    Origuy says:

    The National Park Service is considering changing the names of its iconic hotels, the Ahwahnee, Wawona, and Curry Village. Why? It’s changing the concessionaire who runs them and the outgoing company claims to own the trademarks. They want $51 million from the new company to use the names that have been around for 100 years.

  28. 28
    🚸 Martin says:

    What I don’t get about the NYC attack (which has been around for ages) is that NYC is the actual birthplace of capitalism in the US, and it remains unquestionably the driving core of US capitalism.

    NYC values have for 400 years been quite simple – bust your fucking ass, make money, succeed. NYC has always been, and remains a place where entrepreneurship was king – from a hot dog cart, to selling books on the sidewalk, to hooking for the sailors. Texas may have less government regulation, but it has far more cultural regulation. NYC is where the free market rules all. Hell, it’s why Trump is there.

    Texas is a fucking piker in the capitalism game. NYC per capita GDP is $180K. Texas is $46,000. What are the bottom 8 states in per capita GDP?

    Kentucky
    Montana
    Alabama
    Idaho
    South Carolina
    Arkansas
    West Virginia
    Mississippi

    I guess GOP values are being an economic backwater.

  29. 29
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @🚸 Martin: I’m sure that Kansas will be on that list soon.

  30. 30
    hilts says:

    @Anne Laurie:

    “Full disclosure.”

    If you had a problem with NYC when you lived there, why could not spell out what you disliked about the place?

    In a previous thread, you made a dismissive remark about John Lindsay, but you didn’t specify what problem you had with his administration.

    I’m a native New Yorker and love this city, so I don’t appreciate criticism that leaves out context.

  31. 31
    David *Rafael* Koch says:

    Marco Rubio forcefully spewed out one fabrication after another. The contrast between the intelligence of the urbane, polished Obama and the spewings of the crude, raw Rubio, was never more apparent.

    I wonder if Lil’ Marco wears his 3 inch heels to qualify for roller coaster rides

  32. 32
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @hilts: I love LA, some folk hate it. To each their own.

  33. 33
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @David *Rafael* Koch: Hey, watch the short jokes, stretch.

  34. 34
    David *Rafael* Koch says:

    @🚸 Martin: you realize he’s not talking about capitalism he talking about jooos.

  35. 35
    jl says:

    @Origuy: That is the weirdest and most disgusting scumbag corporate pirate story I have read since the previous disgusting scumbag corporate story I read a few weeks ago. From the link:

    ” Delaware North says it transferred the physical assets it purchased, but retained ownership of the intellectual property. Park officials maintain otherwise. ”

    So this miserable corporation bought the physical assets and associated names went with them (did they?), but somehow they could decide to separate the two when they transferred them back.

    Some idiot lawyer quoted in the link says the concessionaire might have a strong case, since they did something or other to increase the value of the names in 23 years? How? All that stuff was world famous for 50 years before the corporation did anything in Yosemite.

    And in my humble opinion, they stunk at their jobs. I complained about unsafe and incompetent and sloppy, maintenance, and upkeep I saw last time I camped in the Valley.

  36. 36
    Origuy says:

    @srv:

    The names have already been changed. Try to keep up.

    Uh, no.

    As of March 1, the Ahwahnee will be renamed the Majestic Yosemite Hotel.

  37. 37
    jl says:

    @Origuy: This srv is always running ahead of us. Remember that, my friend.

  38. 38
    sm*t cl*de says:

    So the importance of wiping New York off the face of the Earth is one of many points on which Michele Bachmann and Al Qaeda agree?

  39. 39
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @David *Rafael* Koch: Republican primaries, guys. That’s a feature, not a bug.

  40. 40
    sm*t cl*de says:

    @David *Rafael* Koch:

    apparently @tedcruz touted the endorsement of a gun rights group that has ties to white supremacists.

    That doesn’t narrow it down very much, does it?

  41. 41
    Doug says:

    I’m surprised that none of them laid some Sinatra on Cruz, “Hey, yo Ted, start spreadin’ the news, I’m leavin’ today, I want to be a part of it – New York, New York…” Dropping the mic would be an optional extra.

  42. 42
    Anne Laurie says:

    @hilts:

    If you had a problem with NYC when you lived there, why could not spell out what you disliked about the place?

    NYC will always be the place where I was born. But when I fled (to college in the Midwest) in 1973, it was rapidly (again) turning into a place where the rich would have a great time, the poor would be given just enough to keep them quiescent, and the middle class would be relentlessly crushed or forced into exile. I didn’t want to stay and join the resistance. To be perfectly honest, I didn’t want to work as hard as I would’ve needed to, were I to choose to stay.

    It is a rich and infinitely variable city, one of this world’s Ankh-Morporks, but not everybody has the temperament for Ankh-Morpork. (At the age of 5-1/2, during my first visit, I decided I wanted to live in Boston, which is parochial and conspicuously high-minded and relentlessly Not NYC. Took me 30-odd years to get there, but here I am & here I plan to stay.)

    I do, however, retain the urge to mock relentlessly those who leave the hinterlands for NYC and promptly become More NewYorker Than Thou; those apparatchiks (native or import) who do their best to destroy everything that makes the city NYC (like many of its mayors, hello Rudy/Mike/Bill); and any public figure from beyond the Hudson who makes it their business to decry Noo Yark values even while benefiting greatly from Noo Yark tax revenues/creative resources/global financial status.

  43. 43
    amk says:

    @David *Rafael* Koch: guess slumming it with asskissing the duck dynasty dood can get you only so many votes.

  44. 44
    David *Rafael* Koch says:

    Looking at the photo at the top of the thread – it surprises me that Trump dresses so boringly (considering he’s so garish).

    It’s always the same generic blue jacket.

    Why not wear something smashing like Colin Firth or Obama

  45. 45
    🚸 Martin says:

    @David *Rafael* Koch:

    so many people said Cruz was a great debater. I never saw that.

    Yeah, I’ve said that but I think Cruz is now so full of himself and such a raging asshole that he may still show some of the technical debate skills, but they’re overshadowed by how utterly distasteful he is.

  46. 46
    divF says:

    @srv:
    Wrong again. Douglas County went 62% for Romney in 2012.

  47. 47
    dogwood says:

    Did Jeb appear at this debate?

  48. 48
    Ruckus says:

    @David *Rafael* Koch:
    Don’t want the clothes to outpace the man. It’s donald that is the strength of the outfit not the other way around. You think he shops at Suits Are Us? Please, he paid way too much for those suits, and still, look at him, no suit could make up for that.

  49. 49
    Ruckus says:

    @dogwood:
    Hard to say. No one seems to know. And fewer care.

  50. 50
    Ruckus says:

    @hilts:
    I live in a major urban area in a multi story apt and yet NYC leaves me cold. AL likes Boston, when I considered moving there it took me about 30 seconds to easily change my mind. About 12 yrs ago I had the option to move anywhere in the country and as I’ve traveled to 46 of the states had a pretty good idea where and why I wouldn’t and would like to live. I like where I live and don’t like where you do. So fucking what? That probably means you probably wouldn’t like where I live either. Get over yourself, it’s a big world and there are lots of great places to live. And a larger number of shitty ones. Depends on what you like/dislike. You want to take my dislike of NYC personal, I could care less. If you’d like a list of the states I don’t like/wouldn’t want to live in and why it will be dramatically longer than this comment.

  51. 51
    ruemara says:

    I left NYC over a decade ago and many times I think I made a mistake leaving my lovely 2 bdrm 1 ba for $1200 on 109th & Columbus. Also, fuck Trump. He’s always been hated, even if he gave a good answer now.

    I’m watching David Bowie & [X] videos. All these live performances with great artists. He’s really gone and we shan’t see his like again in my lifetime, right? Not a terrible prank? Dammit. I’m gonna try to get some sleep.

  52. 52
    Cermet says:

    tRump nailing Cruz is just too good. Couldn’t happen to a more stinking pile of shit. One poster is right, Cruz will not utter that phase again in a debate …lol.

  53. 53
    gene108 says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    I noticed that, Gun Owners of America.

    GoA are the guys, who think the NRA are a bunch of gun-grabbin’ squishes. Plus the President, Larry Pratt, worked for Pat Buchanan’s Presidential runs, in the 1990’s, and for some reason also got caught up with white supremacists…

    I wouldn’t be surprised, if some of the other smaller than the NRA gun groups also have ties to white supremacists.

  54. 54
    gene108 says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Maybe I’m dead wrong about this, but I don’t think Cruz’s NYC remark will hurt him at all. Most GOPers do think NYC is Sodom & Gomorrah, even if they can’t stop humping 9/11.

    Probably won’t hurt Cruz with this supporters or most GOP voters, but it seems to have pissed off the sensibilities of the chattering classes.

    So look for people trying to find ways to pull him down. Sort of the way Al Gore got treated by the media versus Bush, Jr., in 2000.

  55. 55
    Chris says:

    @🚸 Martin:

    What I don’t get about the NYC attack (which has been around for ages) is that NYC is the actual birthplace of capitalism in the US, and it remains unquestionably the driving core of US capitalism.

    Conservatives are no more consistent about their capitalist values than their Christian ones, or their patriotic ones, or whatever. They have a long history of flipping a shit whenever the “free market” does anything they don’t like – cultural conservatives hate Hollywood for not catering to puritan tastes (catering to what sells instead), nationalist conservatives resent any foreign country that plays the money game well enough to approach the U.S. (China, the Arabs, used to be Japan), and all of them spin conspiracy theories about George Soros and Warren Buffet’s political influence that sound like they could’ve come from an Internationale meeting. They just don’t phrase it as “blame capitalism.”

    In this case, I suspect that if New York City were red, they’d love it, but the fact that it’s not renders all its capitalist values moot. They’re Others. End of story.

    NYC values have for 400 years been quite simple – bust your fucking ass, make money, succeed. NYC has always been, and remains a place where entrepreneurship was king – from a hot dog cart, to selling books on the sidewalk, to hooking for the sailors. Texas may have less government regulation, but it has far more cultural regulation. NYC is where the free market rules all. Hell, it’s why Trump is there.

    Oh, yeah. The entire Deep South is regulated as hell, politically and otherwise, it’s just not federal government regulation. I can’t even say “it’s not government regulation,” because the right wingers are just thrilled to use the state politicians to regulate to death anything they don’t like – witness the labyrinth of rules they’ve used to de facto abolish abortion services in several states.

  56. 56
    Chris says:

    @sm*t cl*de:

    So the importance of wiping New York off the face of the Earth is one of many points on which Michele Bachmann and Al Qaeda agree?

    Remember Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell’s the week of 9/11 guffawing about how Jeebus had punished New York City for all its fagz and feminists?

    There’s a reason we call them “Christian Taliban.”

  57. 57
    Chris says:

    @Cermet:

    tRump nailing Cruz is just too good. Couldn’t happen to a more stinking pile of shit. One poster is right, Cruz will not utter that phase again in a debate …lol.

    This is what I’ve loved about Trump for months now. Not only does he tear these fucking people to part, but most of the time, they deserve it, he’s not wrong, and it needed to be said. Was true for Jeb Bush, is true for Ted Cruz.

  58. 58
    kd bart says:

    “New York Values” is Evangelical code for “Too Jewy”.

  59. 59
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Chris: Yeah, but who’s gonna stop Trump?

  60. 60
    Matt McIrvin says:

    There was a period of a year or two after 9/11 when conservatives all had to make a special exception to their hatred of the urban Northeast and love New York. Then they forgot all about it. I guess that was the trap Ted Cruz fell into.

  61. 61
    Calouste says:

    @David *Rafael* Koch:

    a gun rights group that has ties to white supremacists.

    I don’t think that really narrows things down a lot.

  62. 62
    Paul in KY says:

    @hilts: Boy, you must be a real blast to hang around with…

  63. 63
    Paul in KY says:

    @jl: You would think a competent judge would laugh them out of the courtroom.

  64. 64
    Paul in KY says:

    @Anne Laurie: Too nice to that jerk, but a fine summation of why you & NYC don’t get along.

    Any city that loves Trump has some serious problems, IMO.

  65. 65
    Paul in KY says:

    @srv: If they hadn’t been smoking killer dope, they would have already massacred them, dipshit.

  66. 66
    louc says:

    @Chris: This X 1,000,000. My father is in a nursing home in Tennessee and it’s partially paid with Medicaid $. The rules and regulations my poor stepmother has to meet for that are just insane. She can’t use a credit card. Her living expenses can’t go over a certain amount. She can’t have more than $2,000 in savings. What the hell is she supposed to do if the house needs a new roof or her car breaks down and she needs to replace it? These are Tennessee rules not federal ones. I wonder how much the low-info voters understand about how states impose a lot of these rules, not the federal gov’t.

    Also, all those assholes spouting about the free market and their worship of Adam Smith are full of it. They clearly have not ever read Adam Smith and his warning that government *has* to regulate because of the danger of too much capital collecting in too few hands.

  67. 67
    KS in MA says:

    @Oldgold:

    Go Hawks!

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