— Jenny B. (@JennyBoylan) January 14, 2016
Due disclaimer, from Mr. Charles P. Pierce:
There’s little point right now in trying to make sense of the Republican presidential field. There’s little point in trying to do that until somebody actually casts some kind of vote in a middle school in Iowa in the first week of February. Donald Trump leads all the national polls. Ted Cruz leads all the Iowa polls. Trump scares the bejesus out of the Republican elite, none of the members of which would piss on Ted Cruz if his head was on fire. This is something of a dilemma, or it would be, if the Republican Party actually were still a political party, instead of an unwieldy planetary system of competing interests groups and billionaires, all with their own gravitational fields, all affecting each other’s orbits in bizarre and strange ways…
That being said, here’s Rich “Palin Sent Starbursts Up My Leg” Lowry…
From my convos,GOP estab mood on Trump moving from fear/loathing to resignation/rationalization,ie he'd run better than cruz & slam Hillary
— Rich Lowry (@RichLowry) January 13, 2016
I've heard same https://t.co/YJ2Z4NLIDQ
— Christopher Hayes (@chrislhayes) January 13, 2016
1. Denial
2. Anger
3. Bargaining
4. Depression
5. Making America Great Again
https://t.co/iZgktux94h
— Gabriel Rossman (@GabrielRossman) January 13, 2016
Meanwhile, this morning, per the Washington Post, company paper for the town whose monopoly industry is politics:
BALTIMORE — All Republican eyes will be on South Carolina Thursday evening, where their presidential candidates will gather for the latest debate. But the more momentous GOP gathering may be here, 500 miles north in a waterfront hotel, where lawmakers will start plowing their own distinct path through this unpredictable year.
Those are the marching orders of Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.), who has used his 11 weeks as House speaker to clarify that he and the Republicans he leads won’t be wilting in the shadows as the presidential race dominates 2016.
Quite the opposite: With the race for the nomination deeply unsettled, Ryan has moved to claim a central role in shaping the 2016 Republican agenda and promoting a high-minded vision for his party — one that is now threatened by the populist bombast of Donald Trump and other presidential candidates.
“The kind of role I envision … is to help push ideas and policies, and help make us a party of ideas and make the campaign about a better way forward instead of personalities,” Ryan said in a recent interview.
The 2012 vice presidential nominee is now vowing to turn the House into a election-year think tank, telling reporters this week’s retreat would be “the beginnings of the conversation of assembling an agenda to take to the country.”…
Which sounds, to me, like: Hunker down, boys, we’ll just have to lie low till this ‘populist’ fad blows over and we can scavenge what’s left from the rubble!
If Speaker Ryan represents the “establishment” GOP Permanent Party, this may be good news for Donald Trump (and/or Ted Cruz) but it’s hardly good news for the Repubs’ chances in November, is it?
If Trump wins GOP nomination (still unlikely but possible), is there an opening for @MikeBloomberg to run as the "sane billionaire"?
— Max Boot (@MaxBoot) January 13, 2016
randy khan
I suppose it may be my imagination, but I feel like Paul Ryan says more or less the same thing every year about how he wants to push ideas and policies and have the Republicans be the party of ideas. I don’t know why we should believe this any more now than when his big ideas as Budget Committee chair involved magic asterisks worth hundreds of billions of dollars.
Mustang Bobby
NPR devoted ten minutes to Carly Fiorina this morning. She still think she has a chance to take our country back, poor thing, and that that she saved Hewlett-Packard from destruction. They didn’t ask her where she wanted to take the country back to, or if she was so good for H-P how come no one’s hired her since.
jl
In honor of all those establishment GOP presidential contestants, wherever they may be, both with us and departed, wandering this great land, foraging for dead rats under bridges, slogging alone down lost roads and lonely alleys, waiting out the rain in abandoned warehouses, we salute you.
Bee Gees Stayin Alive (Extended Remaster)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxvBPH4sArQ
JPL
Hopefully there will be a debate thread this evening for those of us sane enough not to watch.
A Ghost To Most
Bad link
japa21
Here is Ryan’s real dilemma. He wants to make the party into something reasonable. Granted his definition of reasonable and mine are worlds apart. The problem is that a significant part of his caucus is made up of folks who detest anything close to reasonable and another significant chunk of folks who don’t want to stir up trouble with the first group.
One has to wonder what the GOP reps are thinking as they look at the Trump-Cruz campaigns and the response they are getting from the base.
David *Rafael* Koch
I feel so bad for 49er fans.
Chip Kelly?!?
Calouste
Mr. Pierce is not correct. Trump leads in 4 out of the last 5 polls in Iowa, although the one that Cruz leads in is from Selzer, the Iowa pollster who has a great reputation in polling their own state.
ETA: According to oddschecker.com Trump is now the marginal favourite over Rubio with most British bookmakers. Rubio was the favourite for a long time until today basically.
Anoniminous
Latest word from the HuffPollster.
National Standings:
Donald Trump 37.8%
Ted Cruz 19.0%
Marco Rubio 10.4%
Ben Carson 8.4%
Jeb Bush 5.4%
Undecided 5.8%
and the odds & sods adding up to 11.7%
Iowa:
Donald Trump 27.9%
Ted Cruz 27.7%
Marco Rubio 12.7%
New Hampshire:
Donald Trump 29.1%
Marco Rubio 14.2%
Ted Cruz 11.9%
South Carolina:
Donald Trump 31.0%
Ted Cruz 17.0%
Ben Carson 14.0%
Somewhere in there is the GOP Nevada caucus.
Granted no one has ever cast a vote for Trump so his ability to turn polling support into votes has to be questioned. But if the Establishment is “resigned” to a Trump nomination means their internal polls are telling them there won’t be a threepeat of the Establishment guy blasting through in January and February.
Germy
Note to the GOP:
Here comes your man
gratuitous
A minor amendment to Gabriel Rossman’s list:
1. Denial
2. Anger
3. Bargaining
4. Depression
4a. Failed Suicide Attempt
5. Making America Great Again
Anoniminous
@jl:
I prefer Ms. Allen’s little effort to commemorate their passing.
(NSFW!)
Thoughtful Today
Des Moines Register poll:
“Clinton is now the top choice of 42 percent of likely Democratic caucusgoers, compared with Sanders’ 40 percent, the poll finds. The poll’s margin of error is plus or minus 4.4 percentage points.”
2/5ths each.
Also:
Bernie beats Trump more handily than Hillary in the last head-to-head poll.
Usual caveats in 3… 2…
The Golux
Party of ideas? The last time a Republican had a good idea was January 17, 1961, and was completely disregarded.
danielx
@Germy:
Now THAT is deeply disturbing.
Calouste
@Anoniminous:
Ted Cruz became Senator (by winning the GOP primary runoff, statewide elections in Texas are a gimme for the GOP) with the vote of about 2.5% of the population of Texas. He doesn’t have much of a track record of turning support into votes either.
Hal
What is with the obsession with Bloomberg? Being a billionaire former mayor of NYC with all of those liberal social policies is not going to win you the GOP nomination.
jl
@The Golux:
That commie? Low energy, drab, not exciting, ugly and no models would do him, who is he anyway?
Boring. Loser.
Pres Eisenhower’s Farewell Address In Which He Warns Americans About The Military Industrial Complex
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gahL5j4ack
Lord Baldrick
@Thoughtful Today: @Thoughtful Today:
Chelsea ran her mouth
A marionette for mom
Too clever by half?
Mnemosyne
I’m apologizing to my fellow Southern Californians now — I got a new umbrella and waterproof boots, so we won’t get a drop of rain the rest of the winter. Sorry about that. I’ll try to wash my car and see if that helps.
JPL
@Thoughtful Today: The usual and very real caveat is that the money machine of the Koch brothers haven’t released ads against. Count me as one of those who doesn’t believe a self proclaimed socialist can win.
JPL
@Mnemosyne: I needed tires within the next few thousand miles, and I went ahead and purchased them. That assures that the Atlanta area won’t have snow this year.
Calouste
@JPL: Yep, the thing is everyone knows Clinton and has known Clinton for more than 20 years. Her current numbers are unlikely to budge. Sanders on the other hand is mostly an unknown. His numbers are only likely to go down.
randy khan
@Hal: I think the idea with Bloomberg is that he runs as an independent. It’s one of those Third Way/No Labels fantasies. Since I think he hates Trump and understands that his running might split the sensible people vote, I doubt he would do it.
Bobby Thomson
@Thoughtful Today: still flogging the cherry picked Q head-to-head poll, huh?
Seltzer also found that Clinton leads by 10 with people who say they definitely show up while Sanders leads by 10 with those who say they probably will
Add to that the image of elected Iowa Democratic pols, all of whom are in Camp Clinton, showing up at the caucuses and she looks to be in decent shape.
jl
Now, in addition to dealing with the bizarre GOP presidential reality crazy show, Chip Kelly is coming to my town, to football mastermind, with the sipshit suits who run the 49ers. I need a drink.
Chip Kelly, SUPERGENIUS: The Next Chapter
http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/
Gin & Tonic
@JPL: Count me as one of those who doesn’t believe a 75-year-old Brooklyn-accented grumpy Jewish self proclaimed socialist can win.
jl
@Gin & Tonic:
Excuse me, shouldn’t that be
74-year-old Brooklyn-accented grumpy Jewish self proclaimed Democratic socialist
to you, my good Sir?
Mike J
@JPL: I’m a Clinton supporter, but I can assure you that whoever wins the nomination, Republicans all over the media and the web will talk about how foolish the Democrats were, and had we simply picked the other candidate, it might have been a challenge for them.
jl
@efgoldman: Gin and Tonic says you are running for president. Anything to that?
Gin & Tonic
@jl: On Election Day he’ll be 75.
Cacti
@randy khan:
He’s the current embodiment of the description previously used for Newt Gingrich:
“A dumb person’s idea of what a smart person sounds like.”
Schlemazel
@Anoniminous:
The interesting thing to me is no 3 candidates tally could reach Trumps. If 2 of the 3 second place clowns quit and not a single voter moved to Trump from them but all moved to the third Trump is still in the lead. This could get interesting.
? Martin
@jl: How did we wind up in a place where 3 of the top candidates either hail from or currently reside in NYC?
Schlemazel
@gratuitous:
6. Successful mass suicide
Botsplainer
@Gin & Tonic:
The final Sanders electoral total would look like McGovern’s performance in 1972.
It would be a glorious performance of progressive purity which would heighten the contradictions, and would result in a lot of head scratching and claims of how progressives got sold out by mainstream liberals.
At least until President Trump shut down progressive news sources and his conservative justices declined to support an injunction.
goblue72
@Gin & Tonic: He’s a democratic-socialist. Which means he’s essentially a member of the Labour Party, representing the Ben & Jerry’s State. Oooooh….scary.
Milquetoast centrist Democratic Party bullshit is the path to continued and ongoing irrelevance. The House, the Senate, SCOTUS, the majority of State legislatures, the majority of State governorships – all controlled by Republicans because the Democratic Party doesn’t stand for shit except for a Kabuki handful of culture war issues. The Democratic members of the House with the firmest holds on their respective House seats? The members of the Progressive Caucus. The ones who keep getting killed on election day to Republicans – the centrists.
Thoughtful Today
heh
The only Koch ads I’m hearing are the ones that Clinton supporters keep inventing as a scare tactic.
Cacti
@goblue72:
So sayeth the gated community Che Guevara.
Has Bernie coughed up any details on how he’s going to finance his single payer plan, or is “revolution” the stock answer?
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
Paul Ryan is so dumb he thinks the Koch brother approved soundbites he speaks in qualify as “ideas”. The national press is so dumb they see things his way.
Thoughtful Today
Dishonesty hurts
Clinton’s campaign quite badly,
it was poor judgement.
Schlemazel
@Thoughtful Today:
So you are totally unaware of the groups currently running ads in Iowa that are either fully or majority funded by the Koch bros? Or are you intentionally stupid so you can continue to vote for the Koch whores?
Wheres the can of Troll-B-Gone?
David *Rafael* Koch
@jl: Harbaugh must be laughing his ass off right now.
bystander
If Carly proposed a Fiorina/Jenner ticket, could she break out of the pack? If so, could she trample Rand Paul on her way?
Just back from a $19.00 viewing of Star Wars. Unfortunately, the theme kept playing in my ear. Dum dum dum dum de dummmm.
Germy
Wayne LePew has challenged Obama to a debate.
catclub
@Mustang Bobby:
Or more pointedly, who does she think took our country away?
? Martin
@catclub: Obviously the blackety-black man in the NRA video Germy links to.
catclub
@Schlemazel:
Whom do those ads favor?
charluckles
Off topic, but are you guys following this Cedrick Chatman shooting?
The part I am stunned by is the firing of the original Independent Review Authority.
Watch the video released today and then reread this article:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/08/us/chicago-police-shooting-cedrick-chatman-review/
I don’t even know what to say.
jl
@David *Rafael* Koch:
Jed York is, technically, a schnook, a hypocritical schnook. I hope people do adopt the correct nomenclature for their invective in the future when whining about, or celebrating, future 49ers fails.
Whatever the failings of Harbaugh, of which there are some and not minor IMHO, I think a lot of what York has said about him has been projection. This year, York, by necessity has been a slightly chastened, slightly less hypocritical schnook. If he was not such a pratfall failure as an NFL owner, he would be not a schnook, but something else. I forget the term, I’ll have to go look it up.
OK, Warriors and Giants, it’s all up to you for me, sportsball wise. And the Kings, of course… the Kings.
catclub
@Botsplainer:
The Democratic party was a horrible, divided, mess in 1972, given the unions hated McGovern. Today, If Bernie got the nod, the Democratic party would not be nearly as badly split as it was then – there is no conservative rump left.
Betty Cracker
By the fires of Mount Fuji, can we nip this commenting in haiku thing in the bud right the fuck now? Or at least throw in a few sestinas? Thanks!
Mnemosyne
@? Martin:
It’s a weird combination, though — only Trump was born AND currently lives there.
David *Rafael* Koch
@jl: This is what happens when you’re born on 3rd base and think you’ve hit a triple.
Mnemosyne
@Germy:
Please don’t throw me in that briar patch. I’m assuming the NRA is proposing competing videos and not an actual live debate. If it is supposed to be a live debate, I can only assume that Wayne is yet another in a long line of white dudes who assume they must be smarter than the president, and get publicly pantsed by him every. single. time.
Germy
@Mnemosyne:
No, he wants a real debate.
What I don’t understand is, why didn’t he just show up for the town hall when Obama invited him?
SiubhanDuinne
And yet another (semi-)celebrity cancer death: Céline Dion’s husband, René Angélil, has died, age 73. Knew very little about him, and I’m far from CD’s biggest fan, but damn, this week is turning into a horrible litany. May he — may they all — RIP. And fuck cancer.
randy khan
@Cacti: Bullseye.
Thoughtful Today
“Clinton’s attacks produce windfall of campaign cash for Sanders.”
Clinton’s dog whistle attacks in 2007/8 crossed the line for many Iowans.
Her negative attacks are very risky.
Her angry allies aren’t helping.
Redshift
@Cacti:
Or a Villager’s idea of what a smart person sounds like, but I guess that’s redundant.
Germy
@SiubhanDuinne:
Took one of my parents. And almost took one of my siblings. And it’ll probably take me (I smoked for too many years before quitting).
Trentrunner
@Lord Baldrick: Imma vote for a Dem in November, but Jesus Puptenting Christ, Chelsea Clinton is a shitty, shitty surrogate.
She reeks of elitist spoiled brat, she married a hedge fund manager, she inherited all of her mother’s natural charm and none of her father’s, and her arguments are pure shite.
Get her off the stage. She does Clinton no good.
Germy
@Thoughtful Today: Who would you like to see Sanders pick as a running mate?
Betty Cracker
@Germy: I suspect this debate offer is a feint to distract us from his cowardly no-show at the CNN dealio. The president almost surely won’t elevate that grubby little lobby-farm insect by accepting a one-on-one debate challenge, but now LaPewPewPew can say he tried.
Schlemazel
@Germy:
Because it wasn’t their idea and anything Obama proposes has to be, by definition, eeeeeeeeevvvvviiiiiillll.
They want him to come to them & not them to him. These guys are all about dick measuring, so Berry should bring a micrometer for measuring them
Redshift
@Germy: Because that wouldn’t make him look like he’s as much of a Big Man as the president. Here’s not interested in a forum where he can make his case, he’s interested in a PR stunt where he can claim he personally took on the Evil Dictator.
Germy
@Betty Cracker:
Best description I’ve heard yet.
Lord Baldrick
@Betty Cracker: @Betty Cracker
Aye aye, maam. I can only do one every 40 years anyway.
SFAW
Shouldn’t that be “the beginnings of the conversation of assembling an agenda to have a discussion of a future meeting to address the plans for a debate to assess the probabilities of creating a going-forward blueprint to fuck over the country.”?
h/t Carly “Let’s See How Many Thinks I Can Fuck Up with My Management-Speak Bullshit” Fiorina, from whom the ZEGS could learn a few things.
jl
@Betty Cracker: Your comment scans a little too much like Haiku for me to take it seriously.
Thoughtful Today
“Who would you like to see Sanders pick as a running mate?”
Elizabeth Warren.
SANDERS
WARRENS
BERNIE
ELIZABETH
And of course a saddled workhouse.
I’m too big for a pony.
Thoughtful Today
* saddled workhorse
SFAW
@Betty Cracker:
Kinda late in the day for that, isn’t it? And besides, it’s a racist Yanqui fiction against the Messicans.
trollhattan
@David *Rafael* Koch:
I prefer to think of it as two gimmie wins/season. [Seattle fan]
trollhattan
@jl:
Between the York kid that the Davis kid, Bay Area football will be performing doormat services for the next decade, minimum.
trollhattan
@bystander:
Nineteen bucks? Does that include open bar?
catclub
@SFAW: I approve that modification.
NPR guy did not ask Fiorina how many HP employees have donated to her campaign.
geg6
@Thoughtful Today:
She’d be an idiot to do such a thing. Sad that you have such a low opinion of her.
Anoniminous
@Calouste:
I knew Cruz had a gimme election but I didn’t know it was that ridiculous. Point Taken.
@Schlemazel:
Yeah. Unless something changes, really quickly, it’s Trump’s nomination to lose. The debate tonight will be interesting. I wonder which of the other pretenders will attack and which will knob-slob, looking for the Veep slot.
jl
@trollhattan: Hey, wait just a minute there buddy. If the du Raiduhs keep it up, they will rate as a solid low mediocre team.
I’ve always had a soft spot for the Detroit Lions, and we could have one of those here.
Redshift
@Trentrunner: Yeah, I’m somewhat concerned about how much the attacks from the Clinton campaign suck. There are some real policy differences between Hillary and Bernie (most of them not large, but still), but every attack seems to be a complete sledgehammer that assumes voters are very stupid. (Which may be true in the general election, but I like to think that it’s less so in the early primaries.)
For example, based on the interviews I’ve seen (including a very good one with Chris Hayes), Bernie’s answer to “considering we just had a bruising fight for the health care reform we got, how are you planning on accomplishing single payer, and is it a good idea to reopen it again so soon?” is “we’re building a movement for a political revolution,” which is pretty much the definition of “hope is not a plan.” (And answering “you haven’t put forth any plans” with “I’ve introduced a bill in the Senate (that went nowhere)” is deliberately missing the point.
So there’s a basis for differentiation there, but instead we get “he’s going to dismantle Obamacare!”, which while technically true only if he succeeds in getting single-payer, making it pretty much the complete opposite of the GOP repeal-and-(someday) replace. And while Democrats are generally proud of Obamacare as an accomplishment, and lot of people have gotten insurance, people don’t love it like Medicare, so a wonkish “threat” to it doesn’t generate a visceral response.
It’s the same with so many other issues. On nearly every one, there’s an angle they could take that is honest might resonate with Democrats, and the one they choose isn’t it.
trollhattan
@jl: Oh how I wish the Lions could have surrounded Barry Sanders with adequate talent, they might have become one of the all-time great teams. I too have always had a soft spot for them, I guess in the little-engine-that-could sense. Not to mention decades of being swatted around by the Packers and Bears. (The Raidahs, nevah on accounta living surrounded by their fans.)
chopper
@goblue72:
i’m sure all the numerous attempts in the general election to explain how bernie’s socialism differs is going to work well on the average american voter, a group known far and wide for their attention to nuance.
Redshift
@Anoniminous: Sam Wang has been writing more about the GOP delegate rules, and how in a divided field, 30% equals a majority of delegates.
Mnemosyne
@Germy:
Because the attention wouldn’t have been solely on Little Wayne.
Now it will be. I almost feel sorry for him. He won’t have anyone to hide behind when he gets politely ripped to shreds.
(Assuming the president agrees, of course.)
goblue72
@Cacti: Taxes. More taxes on the wealthy.
You always been this developmentally disabled?
Anoniminous
@Botsplainer:
The political situation and environment in 2016 is nowhere like 1972. For one, we’re not fighting a tremendously unpopular war. For two, the bigot vote is already in the GOP. For three, the Obama Coalition is a majority of the electoral votes.
goblue72
@chopper: And thus is the reason why Democrats are perceived as pussies. And lose.
Because they are so afraid of losing, they aren’t willing to stand for anything. And I am not just talking about Democratic leadership – I am also talking about the rank and file. You cannot win the long war if you are afraid of losing a battle.
Baud
It wouldn’t surprise me if he lost, but out of what ass are pundits pulling the idea that the four-month front-runner is “unlikely” to win?
Anoniminous
@Redshift:
Yup. I made the same argument here back in … November? It’s a straightforward analysis of the 2016 Rules the GOP put into place to prevent another long primary fight like 2012. They were so confident of JEB! they totally hosed themselves.
ETA: When we get into the Winner Take All phase all Trump has to do to scoop the lot is get above 20% with none of the other candidates getting above 20%. That’s almost unpossible in every state but there are plenty of states where it really looks like it could happen.
Cacti
@goblue72:
Uh huh.
If it was that simple, what’s the hold up, broseph?
Could it be that it’s not possible to fund a national single payer system without across the board tax increases on everybody? No country on earth with single payer funds it through only upper class tax hikes.
I understand though. Telling everybody that they’re going to pay a big fat VAT on all consumer purchases, or have their payroll taxes and income taxes jacked up tends to get in the way of the applause lines about oligaaaaahcs.
Let’s just say it will be paid for with revolution pixie dust.
Kropadope
Sounds like we’re not too far short of the supernova.
Cacti
@Thoughtful Today:
Bernie voted for the Rand Paul audit the Fed bill.
Warren voted against it.
Who was wrong and why?
jl
@Baud: It’s pundit logic, the kind you need to get paid big to do nothing but talk.
Look at it this way, if the laughably inept Baud campaign is invisible, but the loyal omniscient BJ commentariate which has always had prefect precognition of all events, knows 100 percent that he will win, then Boot’s thinking makes sense as well.
And you, of all people, should be happy that it does make sense.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Cacti:
I think you could sell that.
Baud
@jl: I had hoped to be the one running as the “sane billionaire” but I didn’t win the Powerball yesterday.
But I can’t recall a time when the BJ community was wrong about something, so that does bode well for my campaign.
Bitter Scribe
Gee, what do you want to bet that Ryan’s high-minded ideas and policies will boil down to “cut taxes for the rich and services for the middle class and poor”?
BillinGlendaleCA
@goblue72:
Some of us still have wounds from those earlier loosing battles. Only a fool continues to grab the hot pot after being burned several times.
Mnemosyne
Also, too, I’m surprised that anyone is surprised that Chelsea is a terrible advocate for her mother. There’s a reason why most candidates just have their families stand on the dais to wave and smile. Who among us could be unbiased and calm when defending a parent?
jl
@Baud: Fear not. As you can see, the BJ commentariate is unified as it always is, and is solidly behind you, kicking you forward every chance it gets.
BillinGlendaleCA
@jl:
A real “kick in the ass” campaign.
debbie
@BillinGlendaleCA: @BillinGlendaleCA:
Why not? Look how long the GOP’s been pimping Trickle Down Unicorn Dust.
David *Rafael* Koch
anyone see O’Donnell last night – he had a law professor who made a real persuasive case that Cruz is ineligible cuz the common-law definition of “natural born” is completely different than the american statutory definition of “naturalized”.
If ya interested in a good legal dialectic you should watch the clip
bystander
@trollhattan: That’s with the senior discount.
Baud
@David *Rafael* Koch: I feel like I’ve already read more defenses of Cruz’s situation than I ever have of Obama’s during the birther frenzy.
MomSense
I’m watching the kids table debate and I’ll tell you what these are some angry people. You know how there are homes where all the kids want to hang out and homes where the kids never want to play? No kid wants to go to any of their homes if these Republican candidates are there.
And if by some fluke my kid wanted to spend the night at one of their houses, I guarantee you I would get that 3 am tearful call wanting to come home.
These are seriously unpleasant and creepy people.
Heliopause
@jl:
Thing is, I don’t think he’s necessarily bad at the Xs and Os level, but he made some bizarre personnel decisions in Philadelphia.
David *Rafael* Koch
Baud
@MomSense: I haven’t watched a kid’s table debate yet. I have watched the “adult” debates so far, but I’m thinking of skipping this one. I’m curious to see how the Cruz birther issue goes.
David *Rafael* Koch
@Baud: the “liberal media” never disappoints to disappoint.
Baud
@David *Rafael* Koch: Would that interpretation have barred McCain?
MomSense
@Baud:
I feel like I’m witnessing this abomination just so I can tell my grandkids when they ask me about the crash and burn of the Grand Ole Party.
JPL
@MomSense: Please tell me more… Yes I’m a masochist
Baud
@MomSense: Just blame Obama.
JPL
@MomSense: or the downfall of the USA
MomSense
Currently Santorum is bemoaning how the President doesn’t care about people who are struggling. “The other side” wants to give everyone a free college education but don’t say how they’ll pay for it. Oh and he wants to stop illegal immigration because he looooves the American worker. It is to barf.
MomSense
@JPL:
Please FSM no! We are all going to bust our asses to keep these lunatics out if the White House.
Oh and Santorum is also pissed that the president has done nothing about EMP or our electric grid which may be attacked by Iran any day now.
muddy
I remember when the Fox network started, over the airwaves. No one was perturbed over it because they had interesting sci-fi on Friday nights.
Thin edge of the wedge.
“They just buy guns and watch tv.”
David *Rafael* Koch
Mwahahahahahhahaahahhahah
Ya play with dynamite, don’t be surprised if you blow yourself up.
Now Rubio is being “birthered”
jl
@Baud: You should watch the clip, since the McCain situation was covered. I think her logic regarding what is integral territory of the US leads to conclusion of ‘no McCain not eligible’, but IANAL. She seems to forget that and slides on over to racist SCOTUS arguments about relevance of being one of the ‘alien races’ to argue that those cases should be set aside on same grounds Plessy has been, and gets to ‘yes, McCain is eligible’.
Maybe some of the BJ legal flying wedge can say what they think of her arguments.
Thoughtful Today
…
My support of Elizabeth Warren for Vice President of the United States means I have “a low opinion of her.”
I’ll assume that means you would support her Presidency.
Awesome.
Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA
@JPL: We’ll get snow. I just bought a new bicycle.
WaterGirl
@MomSense: “…the crash and burn of the Grand Ole Party.”
From your lips to god’s ears, as the saying goes.
JPL
@MomSense: hahaha.. So I have one more day on my computer that my son signed in, so I could watch the games. I just checked and yes I can get the debate. I heard Huck saving Soc Sec and passing the fair tax. The son and his soon to be wife save half of their income.. wahoo for them..
sucks for most of us though.. What an idiot…
BTW.. The son understands effective tax rates and can’t understand why he pays so little. His effective rate is the same as a friend who has two children and earns less.
Gimlet
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/14/hillary-clinton-campaign-bernie-sanders-negative-tv-ad
The Democratic frontrunner’s campaign organized a press conference call with reporters on Thursday, following the release of a new ad by the Bernie Sanders campaign that it deemed to be “negative”.
It features Sanders, a senator from Vermont, speaking straight to the camera and painting a contrast between “two Democratic visions” for regulating Wall Street.
“One says it’s OK to take millions from big banks and then tell them what to do. My plan – break up the big banks, close the tax loopholes and make them pay their fair share,” Sanders says.
At no point does he mention Clinton by name, nor does the ad feature an image of the former secretary of state.
WereBear
And yet, his pants do not burst into flame.
jl
@Heliopause: Kelly is good with X’s and O’s. but he doesn’t seem to be the kind of coach who can use that talent to make up for problems with lineup. Maybe if he can look at the lineup more objectively (because with the 49ers he is not personally the source of the lineup problems himself), he will do better. I guess that is the hope for the Kelly and the 49ers.
MomSense
These three candidates are polling at a combined <5%. Why are they sticking around? Grift? Opinion of their political viability just as delusional as their take on the issues?
BillinGlendaleCA
@David *Rafael* Koch: You libs always want to use FOREIGN LAW.
chopper
@goblue72:
not all of us are lucky enough to ‘do just fine’ under republican presidents.
MomSense
@WereBear:
The only good thing about his pants not catching fire is that we don’t have to see what’s underneath. Ewe.
JPL
@Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA: I had jury duty the last snow jam.. Although I got home, it was pretty scary, so any chance of snow, I’m buying bread and staying in. My son did point out that I didn’t eat a lot of bread, though. Funny story, my son spoke to me often when I was struggling to get home and he said don’t worry, I’ll come and bring you to my house. After I got home, I called and asked how he planned to do that, and he said I lied. I just wanted to give you some hope.
MomSense
Huckabee is now talking about how he raised his kids and trained his dogs. Ummm no. Don’t go there Fuckabee.
Botsplainer
@Anoniminous:
Have you looked at who controls the majority of statehouses or how purple the rust belt is? How we’ve been inundated by 30 years’ propaganda on fiscal policy, and how everything is the fault of the colored and the poor?
Polling on policy that indicates a leftward swing is belied by voting.
Progressives spent their energy screaming at and purging moderates rather than organizing against the right and registering voters. Moderates are by definition disinclined to organize or agitate.
Meanwhile, on the right, the crazies are busting their asses to drag their middle along for the ride.
Thus, as always, it’s the purity pony progressives who ruined everything.
MomSense
Santorum is blaming income inequality and the “hollowing out of the middle class” on the breakdown of the family. Now he’s shouting about the bully pulpit. This guy is scary but the crowd loves it.
WaterGirl
@JPL: I remember your jury duty and that storm. Hair raising, I recall.
What a sweet, funny story. Well, mostly sweet, all is forgiven with the lie, right? :-)
Randy P
Planned Parenthood is fighting back with a lawsuit against Center for Medical Progress. Good to hear. Sounds like there are some criminal allegations there too.
I know the wheels of justice grind slowly, but maybe some of our legal beagles can comment: Is there any chance that some of the evidence of fraud and lying on CMP’s part will come out in 2016, enough to sway at least a few True Believers into realizing or at least wondering if they were bamboozled?
JPL
@MomSense: omg.. no wonder his son killed a dog. The horrors. Thanks for watching but I think we should all chip in and send you a case of wine or hot chocolate… Something anyway.
jl
@jl: Or maybe Kelly will use his supergenius kellybiometrics system and bench all the good players who don’t rate and make things worse.
My main worry is that we will have a bad team and bad prema dona drama. Which will lead me to avoid American football altogether, to the point that I forget all the rules and have no reason to watch the stuff at all.
So, hey, it might be a good thing after all.
WereBear
@MomSense: Dear lord. A man with negative self-awareness.
WaterGirl
@WereBear: This makes two of your comments in the last 10 minutes that I was about to write, almost word-for-word.
JPL
@WaterGirl: The truth is he would have tried.
Gimlet
Preparation for tampering with the primary vote results?
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/14/donald-trump-president-2016-republican-poll-florida
Casey Geloneck, a young pilot from the Pensacola area, said he didn’t plan to vote for Trump, but came “for the spectacle, mostly, and to hear what he has to say”.
Is there anything Trump could say to win his vote?
“Yeah. Gimme some details. Any kind of plan,” Geloneck said. “He’s all about the platitudes. That’s asking me to trust someone without knowing what he’s going to do.”
In the end, he said, he expects he’ll vote for Rubio.
That was common, among even the supporters waving Trump placards; they wanted to vote for someone else but came to see the show, especially considering Trump’s commanding lead in polls over other Republican candidates.
MomSense
Now Fuckabee is following up Santorum’s bluster about fighting the Clintons by his folksy fighting them in Arkansas.
Fuckabee says we can’t count on god’s blessing unless we stop abortion, bring the 10 commandments back, and get on our knees (and pray). My 12 year old was giggling.
Fiorina has been told all of her life to sit down and be quiet. Well she’s not going to be quiet about our God and our guns. Also, too we would pay to see her debate Hillary it would be that awesome.
Oh and take our country back.
Thank dog this is done.
Brachiator
This actually makes sense, and could be interesting.
Ryan and the GOP establishment in Congress probably are prepared to play gridlock games against a president Sanders or Clinton.
But do they have the balls to play gridlock games against a president Trump? If Trump wins, would he become the leader of the Tea Party faction, and use this bully pulpit to neutralize or displace Ryan?
MomSense
@MomSense:
Obviously my 12 year old’s dirty mind is developing right on schedule.
WaterGirl
@JPL: He sounds like a really good guy.
Thoughtful Today
…
Long time Hillary supporter Taylor Marsh:
…
There’s a nice signed photo of Hillary and Bernie signed by Hillary in 1993:
“To Bernie Sanders with thanks for your commitment to real health care access for all Americans…” Hillary Rodham Clinton”
jl
@Gimlet: Does that mean the people supporting Trump in the polls are these goofballs, who are dream tripping their way through the primary?
I guess we will see. Hard to predict what will happen in GOP primary. It is the frighteningly real Unreal.
geg6
@Thoughtful Today:
I prefer that she run for the office she prefers and in which she can do the most good, her Senate seat. VP is a shit job unless you have the completely unprecedented relationship Obama and Biden do. And she has repeatedly stated she is not interested in your personal fantasies involving her. I agree with her. She’s in the best possible position to move her own agenda forward.
MomSense
@WaterGirl:
We know how to win these things. We will not let these assholes anywhere near the White House.
Gimlet
@MomSense: Currently Santorum is bemoaning how the President doesn’t care about people who are struggling.
Jeb thinks we can help them most by eliminating “food stamps” and stop coddling them!
Gimlet
@jl:
I’m implying they are preparing the public for “disappearing” Trump’s support or altering the results.
MomSense
@Gimlet:
We just need to work harder!
trollhattan
@geg6:
True that. Liz is 66 and if VP is the presumed stepping stone to the presidency, she’d be running for that at 74. She can do a lot more as senator than as veep.
Schlemazel
@MomSense:
He should have spent more time raising dogs and training his children . . . to not torture & kill the dogs.
MomSense
@WereBear:
It really is astounding.
WereBear
@WaterGirl: Great minds, tee hee.
Baud
@MomSense:
In China, the factories put up walls to keep the workers out.
jl
@Gimlet: Who is ‘they’? Sinister establishment GOP forces who can influence Guardian reporting? Establishment GOP plants in Trump audiences pretending to be goofballs?
I just see an article reporting that confused irresolute people who go to Trump rallies because they are the closest thing to a demolition derby nearby.
MomSense
@Schlemazel:
It’s so strange because here at B-J we just think of our dogs as our family. It would be like fratricide. I can’t imagine my kids ever killing their canine sibling. They might out her in her crate and complain to me about her.
Gimlet
@Thoughtful Today:
The latest is about health care, where the Clinton campaign overreached by a mile. Of course, the criticism of Chelsea Clinton for hitting Sanders for allegedly wanting to “dismantle… dismantle… dismantle… dismantle…” our health-care system — she actually said that four times — brought out new claims of how Hillary is treated in the media.
What Sanders wants. $15 Trillion??
What Sanders has in mind is an expansion of the Medicare program to cover all citizens. Make no mistake: It’s a further-reaching expansion of health insurance, and government’s role in providing it, than Obamacare.
So how would Sanders pay for it? That’s the rub: Sanders hasn’t offered many details, and such a plan is widely estimated to cost $15 trillion.
He’d impose a new tax to fund it — but since a Medicare-for-all program would also eliminate the need for private insurance premiums, Sanders argues that Americans would actually save money.
gene108
@catclub:
Really?
Democratic Senators from West Virginia, Missouri, North Dakota, Colorado, Nevada, etc. are gushing to usher in Bernie’s vision of Democratic Socialism?
Even with a near super majority in the Senate, Democrats 7 years ago, balked at the idea of a public option championed by a super popular new Democratic President and dragged and dragged healthcare reform along slowly, until the current system of Obamacare has been put in place.
And Democrats have been trying to achieve universal healthcare, all be it with varying levels of enthusiasm, since the Truman Administration.
The people, who vote in Democratic primaries are more liberal than the American population as a whole. They are willing to support more liberal messages.
This does not mean that Sanders can carry the general election. Or more importantly will have strong coattails to help pick up additional Democratic wins in Congressional and local races.
The right-wing media branded Bill Clinton a commie-pinko-draft-dodging-liberal and a lot of it stuck, so much so that Bill became much reviled in the South, during the 1990’s, and Southern Democrats ran away from their sitting President.
Baud
@MomSense: I was sandwiched between my two dogs last night. It was a cuddlefest for the ages.
MomSense
@Baud:
Oh you are bringing back memories of the Romtron.
Thoughtful Today
…
Elizabeth Warren as President or Vice President would make me very proud.
A Vice Presidency with Bernie would set her up for President very nicely.
Gimlet
@jl:
It is mentioned as speculation only.
Trump is perceived as a problem by the GOP establishment. It is one way to get rid of him.
Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA
@JPL: This is why I don’t have kids — I wouldn’t raise them to be like your son. (I would try like hell to raise them to be like him — I would just fail dismally.)
MomSense
@Baud:
I’m envious. My pup sleeps with her brother.
Baud
@Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA: Ha. Me too.
joes527
@Gin & Tonic: It amazes me how talking about Hillary’s age is ageist, but talking about Bernie’s age is just good sense.
No matter who wins the Democratic nomination we are going to spend the next year one slip-and-fall away from President Trump.
And if we dodge that bullet, we will spend the next 4-8 years hoping that Reagan was an outlier.
Baud
@MomSense:
2012 election night was one of the happiest nights of my life.
Thoughtful Today
Note:
Clinton supporters _pessimism_ on this blog.
…
jl
@Gimlet: OK. I will go with my hunch that a lot of Trump support may be from confused and angry goofballs.
If Trump’s delegate count after a few primaries matches his poll numbers, then both our speculations are less likely to be true.
If Trump flames out, then we can argue about why (Establishment GOP mischief versus Trump support was all goofballs), I guess.
MomSense
@Baud:
Surpassed only by election night 2008. I’ll never forget it.
Thoughtful Today
Contrast:
Bernie’s OPTIMISM that all Americans should have healthcare and the availability of State College educations.
…
Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA
@MomSense: Last night my little Muppet, the small dog I used to be ambivalent about keeping, climbed on top of me while I was lying on the couch watching TV. She’s done this a few times before, but last night she curled up and hung out for about 20 minutes. This was a first, and I was a very happy human.
Fuck Huckabee with a rusty pitchfork dipped in boiling oil.
Baud
@MomSense:
2012 was in some ways a little sweeter, just because it was clear that Obama was going to win in 2008.
David *Rafael* Koch
@joes527: I’m old enough to remember that every liberal said McCain was too old at age 72 and that we would eventually end up with Palin as president. I’m know that every progressive said Dole was too old at age 74. I know that everyone who supported Jimmy Carter said Reagan was too old at age 69.
if you believed that then, but not now then you’re lying to yourself. Plus if you don’t think the corporate media won’t make a Dukakis like scandal (kitty dukakis burned a flag) over it, then you’re naive.
gene108
@Thoughtful Today:
Medicare-for-all would dismantle our current healthcare system.
Liberals tend to assume that anything run by government has to be better run, than if it is run by the private sector because there’s no profit motive involved with the government.
Sort of the revers of what conservatives believe.
Whether or not Medicare-for-all single payer will be better than the current system is debatable. There will be trade-offs, well beyond the “how to pay for it” part.
Also, if you did away with private insurance – I guess part of Sander’s plan to off-set the higher taxes single payer necessitates – there will be thousands of unemployed folks, with very specialized skillsets out of a job.
The first attempted repeal of the PPACA was entitled something like “Repeal the Job-Killing Healthcare Law Act”.
If you kill off private insurance, you will actually be drawing a line between single payer and job losses.
If Republicans can run against Obamacare killing jobs, for years and years, just think of the fun they’ll have, if single payer shutters a major industry in this country.
Gin & Tonic
@joes527: I’ve talked about HRC’s age, too, and never had anybody call me ageist — but Sanders is six years older than she is. Actuarially that’s a significant difference – he’d have more than double the death probability as HRC would at Inauguration day. He’d be over five years older than Reagan was at his first inauguration.
raven
The lunatic Bachmann just told Tweety that Obama was going to give Gitmo to Cuba and then there would be COMMIES 90 miles away. serious
Baud
@raven: Sounds about right for Bachmann.
MomSense
@Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA:
I’m so happy Muppet is doing well and you are bonding.
I can’t believe Fuckabee bragged about raising kids and training dogs given what happened. There must be a culture that doesn’t value dogs that I hope never to encounter in my circle of friends and family. Appalling.
Gimlet
@gene108:
Medicare is a structure already in place not needing to be dreamed up and implemented as the ACA did.
As to the cost, Medicare already covers the sickest group of Americans. Dropping the eligibility age would not add equally “sick” beneficiaries to the pool.
goblue72
@BillinGlendaleCA: I can only assume you are Boomer Democrat – the kind afraid of their own shadow.
I’m sorry, but those of us born in the Gen X and Millenial generations do not share your fear. We don’t have anything left to lose.
joes527
@Gin & Tonic: If we cared about such things, we would admit that they are both too old for the country to depend on.
Anoniminous
@Botsplainer:
What are you talking about? Which state Democratic Party was captured by Progressives who then purged moderates?
BillinGlendaleCA
@goblue72: I’m a younger Boomer, I was born in the 60’s. Let me point out that the Gen X’ers are as conservative as their Silent parents(aka, the Happy Days generation).
raven
@goblue72: Oh, you are so full of shit.
jl
@joes527: Not if they pick good VPs, which is what those are for.
Sorry to both Hillerybots and Berniebots, but we just need to get one of their asses elected, given what is going on in the GOP, presidential candidates, Congress and their votes in the SCOTUS.
David *Rafael* Koch
@goblue72:
it’s easy for Brogressives to say that, they don’t have to worry about abortion or immigration reform or getting murdered by cop.
BillinGlendaleCA
@raven: Don’t ya know the X’ers and Millennials are sooo much more pure than us Boomers?
Baud
@goblue72:
I don’t care who you vote for in the primary (me), but as to this
I’m confident conservatives will find something you have left to lose, and will take it from you.
Anoniminous
@raven:
And to think she got that way without massive doses of hallucinogenics.
That we know of.
raven
@Anoniminous: Oh, “we have nothing left to looooseee. What a crock of shit.
goblue72
@David *Rafael* Koch: You really think the next President is going move the needle on immigration reform? You do realize the President that has overseen record numbers of immigrant expulsions is President Obama? And our current SCOTUS is 5-4 GOP and abortion is still legal? And electing a President Trump isn’t going to make murder by cop any more meaningfully worse given that its primarily a state/local issue.
But yes, please keep sending up those straw men of fear.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud:
Yup, I’ve got the scars too.
jl
@Anoniminous: She was a liberal a long time ago. And the mind control drugs they give you during IRS staff training probably caused permanent problems.
goblue72
@raven: @raven: Says the angry PTSD Boomer.
It must hurt to know that the war you fought in, those of us 45 and under really couldn’t give a shit about.
raven
Tamara has an LA dog rescue post upstairs.
goblue72
@BillinGlendaleCA: We aren’t purer. We just aren’t so afraid of the “Big Bad GOP Monster” that you all want us to be.
BillinGlendaleCA
@goblue72:
Gawd, you really are an asshole.
ETA: In 5 years you’ll be in Trump’s GOP.
gene108
@Gimlet:
Medicare is tailored to a very specific group of people and occasionally includes others, who are on disability.
The reimbursement rates are also lower than private insurance.
I’m not sure how cutting what we pay doctors and hospitals can be anything but disruptive.
Also, if the cost savings from Medicare expansion will come from no longer needing private insurance, you may have job losses across a major industry.
If Roberts hadn’t stuck a shiv in Medicaid expansion, we’d be looking at close to universal coverage as you could get, even with a single payer system.
Gimlet
Paul Ryan is positioning himself to be the voice of the Republican Party.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/01/13/paul-ryan-obama-political-state-of-the-union-degrades-presidency/78747316/
Ryan said Obama’s arguments defending his record — and dismissing as “political hot air” accusations that the nation is in economic and military decline — didn’t square with the realities many Americans see in their own lives. “What I don’t think you got out of that speech is, people are really hurting,” he said.
Those concerns are fueling Trump’s surprising rise and political resilience, he said.
“I think people are really nervous. I think people are really anxious. And that’s because they believe that the country as they know it, this American idea — the condition of your birth doesn’t determine the outcome of your life … so many people are worried that’s leaving us.
goblue72
@David *Rafael* Koch: Oh boo frickin’ hoo. The media might make hay about something.
Here’s the thing bub – the corporate media is gonna make hay about SOMETHING, regardless of the candidate. If the candidate has a “D” after their name, they are going to go after them – because that’s what the small handful of guys who owns the companies that own most of the media want them to do.
Running around being afraid of what the “media” might attack Candidate X for is waste of fucking time. Candidate Obama was the biggest fucking pothead in high school / college of anyone elected to the White House – and nobody, at the end of the day, gave a shit.
Trump, Clinton, Sanders, etc. – they are all fucking OLD. Not kind old. But OLD. Well past collecting Social Security OLD. Nobody is going to give a shit if OLD Candidate X is 4, 5 years older than OLD Candidate Y.
Thoughtful Today
…
_President_ Clinton’s leadership showed how socialist healthcare systems like the VA can work quite well if well managed.
As for the money, _current_ Clinton supporters never account for the money we’re CURRENTLY SPENDING, it’s a hyyuuuuge number, 15% to 20% of which goes into the hands of Corporate insurers and NOT into healthcare.
Medicare runs at less than 5% overhead making it … yes …_more_ efficient than Corporate insurance ‘care’.
Mike J
@goblue72:
Spoken like somebody who takes Roe v Wade for granted.
goblue72
@gene108: Nobody gives a shit if some people working for insurance companies lose their jobs. Nobody.
Just like making Wall Street smaller (which it needs to be) is going to mean Wall Street people lose some jobs. Which also nobody would give a shit about.
Gimlet
@gene108:
Also, if the cost savings from Medicare expansion will come from no longer needing private insurance, you may have job losses across a major industry.
While that’s an opinion, I could with equal validity say those employees will shift into selling and administering casualty and life insurance.
Thoughtful Today
…
BTW, what’s ‘curing cancer’ going to cost?
Could someone link to that legislation?
Quite exciting!
goblue72
@Mike J: There are 5 GOP on SCOTUS. GOP appointees have outnumbers Democrat appointees for quite some time. Roe v Wade is still around. But please, keep spreading the headless chicken fear.
Baud
@Gimlet:
Trump’s rise is because his supporters want to go back to a time when the condition of your birth does determine your outcome in life.
David *Rafael* Koch
@goblue72: “A woman enjoys intercourse with her man as she fantasizes being raped by 3 men simultaneously.” ~ Senator Sanders
Good luck with that.
Next.
Baud
@David *Rafael* Koch: I don’t care about Sanders’ old writings, but that URL is hilarious.
BillinGlendaleCA
@goblue72: So a few more tRump appointees won’t hurt, can you count?
Baud
@goblue72:
Couldn’t agree more. If calamities haven’t happened yet, it means they never will.
goblue72
@Gimlet: As well as supplemental health insurance products. There are many developed countries with universal healthcare that also allow for the purchase of supplemental private insurance – whether individually or as an employer provided benefit.
Canada has single payer, but also allows for private health plans that cover services not covered by the public single payer plan.
France has an even more robust private supplemental system to allow for purchase not only of coverage for services outside the single payer plan, but also to allow for covering higher quality care.
Mike in NC
What does this even mean? All Ryan gives a shit about is tax cuts for the rich.
Mike in DC
“How would President Trump respond to an armed takeover of a federal building?”…
…is a question that won’t be asked tonight.
NobodySpecial
@catclub: There’s a large conservative rump left. Hell, if Sanders won the nom, a third of the BJ commentariat would secede, minimum. They’d vote for Trump faster than you could say Jack Robinson.
goblue72
@Baud: They certainly can. But the squealing about “Roe v Wade” or immigration calamities as some certainty just because of a Republican in the White House is no more guaranteed than it not happening. Its a bullshit argument continually trotted out by those whose knee jerk reaction is a defensive posture – and trotted out as if its a factual certainty.
Its not. You’ve just taken a particular assessment of risk that I do not share. And history is far more on my side than yours.
Gimlet
@Baud:
That’s a little rigid.
I think after WW2 a lot of people did better than their parents. While today more education is touted as the solution to finding the right job and getting ahead, it seemed to be one of the factors back then. Now talk to all the unemployed law school grads about how they are going to make it in life.
Baud
@goblue72:
Whatever. You don’t seem to care about anyone else’s concerns, so I don’t really feel the need to care about yours.
I’ll support the Dem nominee, and let the chips fall where they may.
jl
@Mike in DC: “Hey, guys, what yooz doin’ is wonderful and terrific, it is classy. The way you doin’ it is classy, I gotta say that. Call out those thugs in the BLM, exactly right, we need to look into that. People are asking questions, very serious smart people, I tell you, are asking questions about the BLM. I’m putting the smartest, first rate, people on it, the best people.
But you gotta go. You gotta get out. Seriously. You gotta go.”
I suppose if they don’t, Trump will fly in for a photo op and negotiate some Great Deals with them himself.
And if that doesn’t work, build a yoouge classy beautiful wall around it, make Canada to pay for it (it’s closer than Mexico).
SiubhanDuinne
@MomSense:
Lemme guess. He prayerfully whipped his kids’ butts, and tied up the dogs on a short chain with no water, and they all turned out just fine, right?
Baud
@Gimlet:
White middle class guys. It was on the backs of everyone else.
Schlemazel
@Baud:
Apparently he has the sensibilities of a 12 year old, I am surprised he is not a Randoid it seems to be the right fit for the maturity level.
Gimlet
@Baud:
It’s too big a topic, but I’ll mention union strength at the time as an alternative to college, GI Bill of rights, and a SC that balanced social justice more to the average joe as a few more areas that made it different.
goblue72
@BillinGlendaleCA: Give me a fucking break. I can guarantee you I spend more hours a week of my time working progressive public policy issues than you do. And spend more time every year volunteering for my local Democratic Party than you do.
I’m sorry if you find your precious Boomer Generation is not perceived as the greatest thing since sliced bread by those of us tired of the shit pile that Boomers have left behind. YOUR generation is why we had Reagan – I was in grade school when he was President. And the Gingrich Revolution is also on Boomer’s shoulders. The first Presidential election my generation was old enough to vote for was Bill Clinton. We sure as shit didn’t vote for Newt Gingrich two years later.
So its not my problem. And my criticism of it bears absolutely no relation to whom I vote for.
goblue72
@Baud: Its not about caring about other people’s priorities. Its about not sharing their assessment of the relative risks. What a lot of you seem to do is conflate one with the other.
Baud
@goblue72: Your much too angry for this to be about risk assessment, about which reasonable people can differ.
BillinGlendaleCA
@goblue72: Age and experience tend to make you a tad bit better at risk assessment.
BillinGlendaleCA
@goblue72:
Ah, no the first election that oldest Gen-X’ers could vote for was St. Ronald in 1984. Oh, they did vote for St. Ronald.
ETA: Math is hard.
raven
@goblue72: Blah blah blah.
SFAW
@BillinGlendaleCA:
Don’t you mean “maturity and intelligence”?
BillinGlendaleCA
@SFAW: All four probably factor in.
SiubhanDuinne
@raven:
I heard that but was in the car listening to the audio of MSNBC on Sirius and didn’t know it was Bachmann (I had, mercifully, managed to suppress what her voice sounds like — and anyhow, how would ever expect Michele Bachmann to be invited to give her opinion — oh, wait, it’s Tweety — never mind….).
Did you hear his “interview” with Carly a couple of minutes later? That was pretty epic.
T: Do the Clintons have a marriage?
CF: They have been married a long time.
T: But do they have a marriage?
CF: They have been married for a very long time.
T: Just answer the question, do Bill and Hillary Clinton have a marriage?
CF: Th Clintons have been married for many, many years.
T: Why won’t you answer the question?
CF: I did answer the question.
If Salvador Dali had scripted political talk shows instead of painting watches, that conversation would be the result.
BillinGlendaleCA
@goblue72: You really need to look back at exit polls by age group in the 1980 and 1984 elections.
ETA: Again, math is hard.
SFAW
@BillinGlendaleCA:
Agreed. My comment was a little more, shall we say, “targeted.”
Cacti
@gene108:
Not to mention, Medicare beneficiaries pay 20 percent co-insurance of the approved rate for services, including hospital stays.
For many people, this would be significantly more than what they pay now.
Gin & Tonic
@SiubhanDuinne: He should ask the Clintons, then. The internal dynamics of a marriage are complex and, above all, private.
SFAW
@BillinGlendaleCA:
You’re kinda starting to piss me off with all this “facts” and “reality” crap.
Gerald
@japa21:
Truth be told …there is NO difference in policies or positions or practices in the entire gaggle of headless chickens aka GOP/Republican Party
Gov Synder in MI is yet ANOTHER example of Republican governance …he has poisoned an entire City of 100,000 American citizens and killed at least 10 US Citizens to date.
AND they want to govern the USA …again?
Remember the last guy?
Squandered surplus, largest terrorist attack on US soil, TWO wars (America’s longest lasting), destabilized the Middle East, 4,000+ US military dead, 500,000 Iraqi’s dead, near collapse of the US economy, destabilized world econmy, etc, etc.
SiubhanDuinne
@Gin & Tonic:
It’s Tweety, Jake.
raven
Reince sounds just like this goblue jackass.
Gin & Tonic
@SiubhanDuinne: Yeah, you’re right.
Gin & Tonic
@raven: Funny part is his nym ends in 72. How’d the blue team do in 72?
Thoughtful Today
…
I look at Hillary and I see Dukakis, Gore, and Kerry.
You get the memo on their performance?
SFAW
@Thoughtful Today:
Duke lost
Gore won
Kerry probably won without Ken Blackwell pulling his “no voting machines in heavily blue districts” crap
So your point was …?
Richard Mayhew
@Thoughtful Today:
The MLR is slightly better, but let’s go back to an example of why the denominator and numerator matter
An analysis beyond simple division is needed
SFAW
@efgoldman:
Damn, boy! (I guess I should transcribe that as “Dayum.”)
I’m sure noclue72 is busy formulating yet another pithy “fuck you, Boomers” response.
SFAW
@efgoldman:
You Boomers are so feeble.
Anthony
@goblue72: I’m 25 and I know I am, were you just not politically cognizant during the W administration?
randy khan
@goblue72: First of all, the middle vote on abortion rights is Kennedy, who sometimes thinks new restrictions are fine and sometimes doesn’t, but lately has been liking them more and more. There’s been a lot of sausage-slicing going on in abortion cases, and it’s all been towards making it harder to get them (hence all the red state legislatures passing TRAP regulations in the hope that they will be okayed by the Supreme Court). So, actually, having 5 Republican appointees has been bad for abortion rights.
But more fundamentally, if Kennedy or one of the D-appointed justices leaves and the President is a Republican, that spot’s going to be taken by someone like Alito, who will vote unhesitatingly to overturn all abortion rights, and then you’re hoping that Roberts will decide that he can’t overturn a precedent he hates. I’m not sanguine about that.
Thoughtful Today
…
“Then move to fucking China or something.”
Clintonian outsourcing to that dictatorial polluter siphoned off America’s middle class. How about all the neoliberals move over to their Paradise of Pollution while the rest of US Americans clean up their mess here at home?
…
“Do your parents and grandparents like Social Security and Medicare?”
I know a lot of Parents and Grandparents that would love to have the security of knowing their Children and Grandchildren are covered by Medicare.
…
“Do you like body bags coming home from the Middle East or anywhere else the RWNJs want to attack brown people?”
HILLARY CLINTON voted for the Iraq War crime that’s metastasized into DaeshIsilIsis.
…
Clinton supporters are angry and pessimistic right now.
Hopefully they’ll start looking at the possibilities of an America that INVESTS in healthcare and education for it’s Citizens, has humane and clean expectations of trading partners, and isn’t so quick to rush into needless wars.
SFAW
@Thoughtful Today:
So is it Trump’s campaign who’s paying you? Or Failgunner Ted’s? Or even Marco Polo Rubio’s?
Satby
@BillinGlendaleCA: Thank you. The next wound from a losing battle could cause a septicemia that destroys what’s left of the country.
Satby
@Baud: and very much this!
Satby
@efgoldman: Perfect response.