Monday Evening Open Thread

All the leaves are brown, and the sky is grey…

Anything on the agenda that isn’t depressing and/or infuriating?

97 replies
  1. 1
    geg6 says:

    Laffer? Seriously? That guy is the stupidest guy on the planet.

  2. 2
    p.a. says:

    Economist says GOP could win 47 states in November: “We’re going to landslide”

    Much like his ‘Laugher’ Curve, his election calculations were done on a napkin.

  3. 3
    raven says:

    Jesus Christ, Tweety has fucking Ann Coulter on.

  4. 4
  5. 5

    Laugher is spelling his last name wrong.

  6. 6
    Baud says:

    Yes, but the Democrats will win 84 states.

  7. 7
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @raven: I’ve quit watching Tweety, I’m giving up my vices one, by one.

  8. 8
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @lamh36: Wait, MTV plays music?

  9. 9
    cmorenc says:


    Laffer? Seriously? That guy is the stupidest guy on the planet.

    Bottom 10% yes. Stupidest, no – that gets into Darwin Award territory. Laffer’s stupid prognostications, whether about his curve or the 2016 Presidential election place him in no danger of being actually killed by his own stupidity.

  10. 10
    Peale says:

    Christ. For a minute I thought the Economist predicting 47 states was the magazine.

  11. 11
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Who the hell viewed Trump as “upper class” and “glamorous”? I forget which snotty Manhattanite writer said something about Trump’s idea of elegance being stuck in a Long Island wedding reception hall in 1978, but (having never been to a Long Island wedding reception in any decade) thought that was pretty descriptive.

  12. 12
    Ruckus says:

    Those calculations might have been better had he been in a jacket with wrap around sleeves and using crayons.
    He’s not in the stupidest group, the people that hire him qualify for that distinction. He is however only one level up. And groundhogs are about 40 levels above that.

  13. 13
  14. 14
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @p.a.: There’s nothing wrong with things drawn on a napkin, as long as the the person drawing them can add.

    [/recovering Economist]

  15. 15
    Gimlet says:


    State of confusion?

  16. 16
    debbie says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I have, and it’s an apt description.

  17. 17
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @cmorenc: Laffer’s stupidity has, on the other hand, killed others.

  18. 18
    Ruckus says:

    I saw that moronic grin and knew that it wasn’t the magazine. Not even sure they would do a story on his idiotness.

  19. 19
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Gimlet: State of Confusion was a good album.

  20. 20
    Baud says:

    @Ruckus: Right. The Hill is trolling.

    I blame blogging culture.

  21. 21
    lamh36 says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA: ha.

    Seriously though, this was 1983…think about that…the 80s…then marvel at the bullshit answer given by the VJ and David Bowie looking him right in the eye and basically saying bullshit

  22. 22
  23. 23
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @lamh36: I went to a Bowie concert in in 1983.

    ETA: True, MTV did play music in 1983.

    ETA2: At least I think they did, I was in grad school and didn’t have cable.

  24. 24
    serge says:

    So I happen to flip on the TV, MSNBC was on with the Halperin/Heileman shitshow. So naturally I turned it off as soon as I could. Forty minutes later, I flip it back on, and it’s Tweety “discussing” events with Liz Nair and Ann Coulter. AAAAAAAAAARRRRGHHHHH!

    That’s just waaay too “liberal media” for me…

  25. 25

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Every time someone turns off Tweety for good, the nation’s collective IQ rises. Celebrate the moment!

  26. 26
    delk says:

    Some member of congress has invited Kim Davis and Mat Staver to the SOTU.

  27. 27

    Laffer is one of those people who runs right up against reality and doesn’t notice.

  28. 28
    raven says:

    @serge: That Mair is a piece of work. I though Coulter was a nasty snake.

  29. 29
    Gimlet says:


    Ammon Bundy wasn’t able to make it?

  30. 30
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant): It’s the same feeling I got when I quit drinking.

  31. 31
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @raven: One’s a cobra and one’s a rattler, both’ll turn a good day bad.

  32. 32
    Jager says:

    Trump’s brand has never been a prestigious. I saw his shitty suits, ties and shirts in Marshall’s three months after he launched his clothing line. Ever see a picture of him from behind? He looks like every over-weight 69 year old man in the country, pants hanging down over his shoes, no ass. He looks like shit.

  33. 33
    sharl says:

    Dunno if someone posted it here already, but Kevin Drum has also been coming to terms with his own mortality, and posted a long read today on how he’ll handle matters if he succumbs to cancer (which he seems to feel he will, possibly in a matter of a few years). Contrary to the drama of Bowie’s Blackstar, there’s that organized, analytical, and wonkish approach Drum has taken in his writing since his Calpundit days a dozen years ago.

    For a shorter read, Drum’s Editor-in-Chief at Mother Jones, Clara Jeffery, tweeted out a few of the key sections. Just scroll down here.

    One thing that sweet nerd has in common with Bowie is a determination to take charge of the situation.
    Best to him.

  34. 34
    kc says:

    So what public lands will the Bundys seize & appropriate next? Yosemite? Yellowstone? The Grand Canyon?

  35. 35
    Mnemosyne says:

    I remembered that I saw David Bowie when he stopped in Milwaukee for the Glass Spider tour in 1987, but I had forgotten that I went with my brother (who was there for Peter Frampton). In my defense, it was 28 years ago.

  36. 36
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @sharl: I really miss Calpundit, the rest of the nation got a great blogger; but we lost his take on CA politics.

  37. 37
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @raven: I had it on mute, but yeah, Mair is like a shark, dead-eyed and relentless

  38. 38
    eemom says:

    I saw that thing about laffer earlier today and almost threw up at the sight of his smug-ass idiot grin.

    And I’m glad raven mentioned coulter, because those two things together evoke a question that’s been bothering me for some time now, which is the following: As worthless as the emmessemm is — and nobody thinks it’s more worthless than I do — why in the name of all the fucks do even they consistently publish the dreck spewed by the likes of coulter and laffer…….when NOBODY, even including the stupidest trumptard, gives a shit what they say?

  39. 39
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Mnemosyne: I saw Bowie in 1983 in Anaheim, morning at GEC’s mouse house and the evening at the stadium with Madness, the Go-Go’s and Bowie.

  40. 40
    beltane says:

    @Jager: That means David Bowie was the same age as Donald Trump. They seem to have been born in different centuries.

  41. 41
    Schlemazel says:

    was it a sanitary one?

  42. 42
    Baud says:


    The right likes people who attack liberals. Liberals like to rage watch.

  43. 43


    why in the name of all the fucks do even they consistently publish the dreck spewed by the likes of coulter and laffer…….when NOBODY, even including the stupidest trumptard, gives a shit what they say?

    Because they have 24 hours a day to fill up with something, maybe 18 hours if you don’t count commercials. People who have something worthwhile to say will either have their own show or be doing something else valuable with their time. The net result is that the only people you can get regularly are shills and partisan hacks.

  44. 44
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    God, heard about 15-20 seconds of that in the car, then switched over to Symphony Hall. Why EVER would even Tweety bother with Coulter? Never mind , I don’t really need to know.

  45. 45
    Mnemosyne says:


    My classic 80s lineup was probably Mojo Nixon, The Pogues, and Violent Femmes. I think that was 1986.

  46. 46
  47. 47
    lamh36 says:

    Oooh fellow comic geeks, it’s confirmed..Black Panther directed by Ryan Coogler (Creed, Fruitvale Station). The news got me like…

    aww. yeah.

  48. 48
    raven says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: What radio station?

  49. 49
    Citizen_X says:

    “Leader?” “Dynamic?” “Innovative?” Trump’s a fucking land-flipper! When has he ever done anything innovative? (Okay, his campaign. I’ll admit to his innovation in fascist ratfucking.)

  50. 50
    What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us? says:

    @Peale: That’s how I read it at first as well.

  51. 51
  52. 52
    Mnemosyne says:


    You have to admit, it takes a special kind of magic to go bankrupt running a ca$ino.

  53. 53
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA: You and raven need to stop libeling snakes. kthxbai

  54. 54
    mclaren says:

    Calling Arthur Laffer an economist is like calling Godzilla an urban renewal expert.

  55. 55
    Ruckus says:

    @Iowa Old Lady:
    Reality has asked him to dance quite a few times but he doesn’t understand the question.

  56. 56
    debbie says:

    Apologies in advance.

  57. 57


    You have to admit, it takes a special kind of magic to go bankrupt running a ca$ino.

    Maybe not; maybe you just have to be ahead of your time.

  58. 58
    Ruckus says:

    So his looks are the only part the are real?

  59. 59
    Mnemosyne says:

    Someone else may have posted this earlier, but the Guardian had a list of Bowie’s top 100 must-read books that he created for a museum exhibition. They’re organized by publication date, not ranked.

    The oldest book on the list is Richard Wright’s “Black Boy” (1945).

  60. 60
    mclaren says:


    why in the name of all the fucks do even they consistently publish the dreck spewed by the likes of coulter and laffer…….when NOBODY, even including the stupidest trumptard, gives a shit what they say?

    Provably false. Coulter has small but fanatically loyal following. “Small” is relative — her few million followers are still enough to push her repeatedly onto the best seller list.

    For example, Coulter’s latest crayola-scrawled manifesto “Adios No. 1” hit number 1 on the Coservative Club best seller list in its first week of publication in July 2015.

    An author whose latest book is amazon’s top-selling political book, and the number 31 seller overall at amazon, is not someone about whom “no one cares what they say.”

    Liberals need to wake up. Dismissing fringe lunatics like Coulter doesn’t work, because she has millions of passionately loyal followers. Despise Coulter, ridicule her, fine — but you need to take her seriously. She has lots of loyal followers. She’s dangerous. And she’s not going away.

  61. 61
    Ruviana says:

    @sharl: Atrios has a link to the MJ cover article. Kevin does say he’s in no great hurry to exercise his right to die if he can avoid it.

  62. 62
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): True, snakes generally won’t bother you, unless you bother them.

  63. 63
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    @raven: There’s an intensely emotive section written by his widow of placing their daughter against his cheek on his last day that I defy anyone to remain untouched after reading. Also Atul Gawande is always worth reading. Some of his pieces have described in detail how much hospice at home improves the quality of life for his terminal patients.

    I was so fortunate, as were they, that both my parents got to leave from their own bedroom. My paternal grandfather departed from a bedroom in our house when I was a kid – my maternal grandmother too care of him in his last couple of years as the care was not good where he’d been.

  64. 64
    Germy says:

    At a campaign rally in Waterloo, Iowa, the former secretary of State called for a 4 percent surcharge on all annual income above $5 million. As opposed to a raise in the top marginal tax rate, Clinton’s surcharge would apply to any and all forms of income, regardless of its source. At present, capital gains are taxed at a lower rate than income — a policy that famously allows billionaire investor Warren Buffet to pay a lower rate than his secretary. According to Clinton’s aides, the surcharge would affect only one in every 10,000 taxpayers, while generating $150 billion in new revenue in its first ten years.

  65. 65
    raven says:

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): I just don’t know what to think. My boss threw her husband of 9 years out over the holidays. She’s selling her house and moving closer to work and going it alone. It’s not my business but I have this little thing in my head telling me she dumped him because she doesn’t want him to go through his with her. On the other hand, the dude has been dead weight ever since they hooked up.

  66. 66
    Mnemosyne says:

    @a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):

    Hospice and home hospice are great, but unfortunately not enough people take advantage of it. There’s still a weird sense that people who choose hospice have “given up” and totally would have made a miraculous recovery if they just kept trying. My brother who died this summer probably should have gone into hospice long before he finally agreed to it, because it lasted less than a week.

  67. 67
    raven says:

    @Mnemosyne: I found out last year that hospice was not necessarily end of life.

  68. 68
    Anoniminous says:


    Friend died of pancreatic cancer and was in home hospice for from the moment he was diagnosed to the end — 3 months later. It was tough on his wife but easier than if he was in a hospital.

  69. 69


    Wow that’s an impressive list of books. I think I’ve only read one of them, Pagels’ The Gnostic Gospels.

  70. 70

    Finally went to the doctor today for the toe I injured about ten days ago. X-rays revealed what I had suspected, broken foot is broken. This is the third time I have fractured my foot.

  71. 71
  72. 72
    Baud says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: Ouch. Get well soon.

  73. 73
    Ultraviolet Thunder says:

    @Southern Beale:

    I guess I’ve read 10 of those. I scanned the list and may have missed some. The one that had the greatest influence on me was:
    The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind, Julian Jaynes (1976)
    It’s probably nonsense but it blew ideas into my head that made a lot of mischief and have never left.
    I appreciate that.

  74. 74
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Southern Beale:

    I have “Mr. Wilson’s Cabinet of Wonders,” which is about a museum/art project here in LA called the Museum of Jurassic Technology. I can see why it would have appealed to Bowie. I used to live about a mile away from it.

  75. 75
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    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    @raven: It may be a bit of both – some desire for him not to go through this for his sake, and a desire to have the freedom to devote all her energy to living her life on her terms. She may suspect his weight would drag her when she can least afford it. I send my best wishes to her, her family, and of course to you.

  77. 77
    Mnemosyne says:


    IIRC, it’s the end of active treatment, but people can usually do pretty well with just palliative care. Art Buchwald was in hospice for something like 3 years.

  78. 78
    Gvg says:

    @raven: I had a relatively good prognosis but for 9 months I used a lot of family care and didn’t do anything I didn’t have to. I stayed with my retired 70 year old parents for the every three week chemo doses and after till I recovered for work. Mom’s cooking was appreciated. So was being able to sleep off the pain and child care for my nephew. My sisters job was long hours so the pets got left alone too much and we had to redo puppy housebreaking because we had no warning and had a pretty new one. Lots of people helped.
    If he needs a lot of work to keep happy I can see someone just simplifing life by divorcing. If it’s a mess to divorce that can be a problem. Anyway, supplying meals or easy solutions to any problems will help. Has she got pets, kids, cranky cars, someone to do laundry when she feels awful?
    I started using an iPad constantly then because I could read news in bed.

  79. 79
  80. 80
    Satby says:

    @raven: Or you know, she could have just decided not to spend what could (in the worst case) be her last months or years with a millstone around her neck too.

    Edit: or what BellaQ said, .And echoing her good wishes.

  81. 81
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @srv: Tribe is wrong. The first citizenship act says otherwise and is about as good as it gets wrt founders’ intent.

  82. 82
    Ruckus says:

    I’ve had three immediate family members in hospice. Only one of them was able to make the choice to be there. The doctor the first time told me that hospice is for when the end is within 7-10 days and they will make the person as comfortable as possible. At the time that was the most humane thing I can imagine. There are no miracles in life, we are born, we live, we die. Let’s at least do it with dignity and humanity.

    That is an amazing story for him to write and see published.

  83. 83
    geg6 says:


    It does if he ever comes within reach of me. I’d punch him in the neck just for giggles.

  84. 84
    raven says:

    @Satby: Yea, I mean there is a good chance that is the case.

  85. 85
    Ruckus says:

    That’s not what I was told but then we were talking about an advanced case of Alzheimer’s with all systems on the shut down path and the person had been in homes for almost 10 yrs, unable to care for himself. None of us had the facilities to care for him at home, Alzheimer’s is a horrible way to live, every day gets worse and yet it takes years to kill you.

  86. 86
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    what if you declared a war and nobody noticed?

    ‏@ daveweigel
    Rand Paul confirms to me that he will skip the “undercard” debate. His message to networks: “You want war? We’ll give it to you.”

    (Me and Rachel Maddow are wallowing in Jeb Bush’s unpopularity with Republicans)

  87. 87
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @Mnemosyne: Paglia? Hey, no one’s perfect.

  88. 88
    Bobby Thomson says:

    As far as the original post goes, I don’t know how much more proof you need that No Labels is fronting for Republicans.

  89. 89
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Bobby Thomson: I was glad to see HRC wasn’t on their list. I think ’08 Clinton would have loved to post pictures of her laughing with her old friend Joe.
    ETA: Up until his McCain endorsement, of course

  90. 90
    jl says:

    I guess No Substance wouldn’t work well as a come on for whatever this group thinks it is doing.

    Thought the ‘economist’ was Al Franken and it was a gag. Well, since it is Laffer, it is still ‘economist’ and it is still a gag.

    It needs to be more a gag to get chances of GOP win down into femto units, so not funny enough for me.

  91. 91
    Ruckus says:

    @Ultraviolet Thunder:
    I’ve got 6 for sure, possibly 1 or 2 more but it would be a long time ago.

  92. 92
    Mike J says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: No, Clinton is a Democrat. She works hard for the party and for other Democrats. You won’t hear this “labels don’t matter” bullshit from her.

  93. 93
    Mnemosyne says:


    So far, our family has been dealing with cancer patients, so that’s probably a much different calculation than Alzheimer’s.

  94. 94
  95. 95
    Ruckus says:

    The person that had a choice was cancer. Her choice was 2-4 months of intensive chemo, followed by death or a few days in hospice with the same result. She’d already done 6 yrs of chemo and two remissions so for her the choice was pretty easy.
    I’m not sure having the choice is all it’s cracked up to be, knowing that you have x hours max to go. But then the alternative wasn’t very pretty either. I see Kevin D in the same way. At some point, if you have the choice, that knowledge may be comforting to some degree.

  96. 96
    Ruckus says:

    I see WP is up to it’s old tricks.
    Yes Alzheimer’s is different than most cancers. It can take years of suffering to get to the end, with absolutely no control over your life. With some/many cancers you have a chance at a life, and even maybe can beat it if found in time. Yes the treatment can be/is brutal but it does work in many instances. And it doesn’t in most cases eat at your mind/personality.

  97. 97
    Anonymous At Work says:

    @Jager: Unless you think Trump’s brand was made to seem prestigious to people who are in the lower 99%. The top 1% shop at better places. Trump’s campaign might be trying to expand his brand and lower prices to a broader base.

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