Today’s Episode Of “Stick A Fork In Him, He’s Done”

Via Martin Longman writing at Washington Monthly, this by Michael Bender and Ben Brody over at Bloomberg:

In Alabama, one of the Bush campaign’s top targets in March, Bush has endorsements from a member of Congress, a handful of state legislators and statewide officials. Yet, in contrast with Donald Trump or Marco Rubio, Bush wasn’t able to find a full slate of delegates to run on the ballot by Friday’s deadline.

 

DUYSTER,_Willem_Cornelisz_-_Carnival_Clowns

As Longman notes,

This obviously undermines Jeb’s main arguments for his own candidacy. He’s supposed to be competent and experienced. His team is supposed to know what it is doing and have a shot at matching the team the Clintons will bring to the general election contest. He’s supposed to have enough establishment support and resources to not have to worry about things like ballot access that can be a real challenge to cash-strapped and little-known candidates.

The whole Bloomberg piece is worth a read.  The TL:DR version is that while the Bush folks can talk a plausible game about a targeted strategy aimed at amassing delegates (which sounds on superficial reading like an echo of the Obama 2008 mastery of the caucus/primary mix, but isn’t), life on the ground looks very different, and thoroughly unpromising for Team Exclamation Point.

That said, the clown car is full of clowns, so who knows which GOP jester will actually get to 1237 delegates.  I don’t — but a while back I was willing to bet lunch money against Jeb.  I’d lay more now.  Quite a bit, in fact, were I a gambling man.

ETA: I do so love the Juice Commentariat.  For the record:  I used the term “stick a fork in him” because I thought the Secret Service might frown on a suggestion to stick a shiv in someone. Though that would certainly settle the question of whether he or she were done. [PS — Secret Service?  This is a JOKE!  Maybe a crappy one, but mine own.]

Image: Willem Corneliz Duyster, Carnival Clowns, c.1620

127 replies
  1. 1
    dmsilev says:

    Yet, in contrast with Donald Trump

    Let’s just sit back and admire this. Donald Trump is _out-organizing_ Jeb Bush.

  2. 2
    Luthe says:

    @dmsilev: Trump has a lot of stupid people fired up, which Jeb! has not accomplished. It’s easier to organize if you don’t have to work as hard to inspire people to volunteer.

  3. 3
    rikyrah says:

    just read this..

    BWA AH AH AH AH HA HA

    OH JEB….

  4. 4
    Germy Shoemangler says:

    Saw this on twitter:

    SnarkyProgressive ‏@snarkylibdem 22h22 hours ago
    If Jeb Bush went back in time and killed baby Hitler how would his grand pappy have made all that $$$?

  5. 5

    I don’t put anything beyond the reach of Familia Bush so I won’t believe he’s done till the GOP convention. Right now I would not be surprised if the final survivor is Bush, Cruz,Kasich ,Mitt, Rubio or Trump. Carson,Fiorina and Christie are too weak/damaged. Cruz scares me because I can see Inspector Trey Clouseau sitting on some Benghazi! Hilary October surprise and a GOPr getting in. A President Cruz is enough to make me soil my underwear.

  6. 6
    Germy Shoemangler says:

    Massive 19 Century Cat Painting Sold For $826,000
    Called “My Wife’s Lovers”

  7. 7
    Roger Moore says:

    That said, the clown car is full of clowns, so who knows which GOP jester will actually get to 1237 delegates.

    And what skulduggery will be necessary to get there? It’s not the most likely outcome, but there’s a real possibility that nobody will have 1237 delegates when the primaries are done. Best guess is that would favor the establishment candidate- you can bet TPTB will be leaning on candidates and delegates to favor the establishment candidate- but it would really be up for grabs.

  8. 8
    Surreal American says:

    @Germy Shoemangler:

    If he’s anything like his brother, Jeb would search for Baby Hitler in Australia.

  9. 9
    Germy Shoemangler says:

    @Surreal American: If I could upvote your comment, I would.

  10. 10
    Amir Khalid says:

    I was saying just yesterday, this is now Jeb’s secret campaign song.

    And now, a nitpick.

    Today’s Episode Of “Stick A Fork In Him He’s Done”

    This metaphor comes from baking. One sticks a fork in a cake to determine if it is done. (If the fork comes out clean, with no unbaked batter on the prongs, then the cake is done.) It’s not the next step one takes with a cake that is done. (This is not to say that I am against sticking a fork in Jeb, especially if it’s one with really sharp prongs.)

  11. 11
    dmsilev says:

    @Germy Shoemangler: I still want to know why killing Baby Hitler is morally ok, but aborting Fetus Hitler is Right Out.

  12. 12
    Brachiator says:

    I was reading this morning that Jeb’s people were going to come out swinging hard against Rubio, thinking him their most dangerous opponent. Oddly enough, they seem to be absolutely afraid of Trump, and either fear or simply dismiss Carson. No matter.

    Jeb?: You don’t understand. I coulda had class. I coulda been a contender. I coulda been somebody, instead of a bum, which is what I am, let’s face it.

    Jeb’s done.

  13. 13
    Surreal American says:

    @Germy Shoemangler:

    Sincerely speaking, that is high praise. Thank you!

  14. 14
    geg6 says:

    @Germy Shoemangler:

    That wins the internet today.

  15. 15
    Paul in KY says:

    @Germy Shoemangler: Now that’s a great twitter line!

  16. 16
    Roger Moore says:

    @Amir Khalid:
    A quick search suggests that “stick a fork in it” comes from sticking a fork in mean to test if it’s cooked, where the resistance to the fork going in tells you if it’s cooked, rather than the test for cakes. I was always taught to use something like a toothpick to test a cake for doneness anyway.

  17. 17
    Paul in KY says:

    @Surreal American: Another great quip!

  18. 18
    Jeffro says:

    @mai naem mobile:

    President Cruz is enough to make me soil my underwear.

    Don’t go a-soilin’ just yet. That Cruz-ian face, that unbelievably irritating voice, the Nixonian playbook…it’s enough to make the last 3 swing voters in America vote our way.

  19. 19
    JPL says:

    @mai naem mobile: Cruz could win the 155 delegates from Texas during the primary. That’s quite a few delegates
    Think about that one.

  20. 20
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Roger Moore:
    Either way, it’s a test for doneness. It doesn’t actually do anything to the meat/cake.

  21. 21
    JPL says:

    We have a situation where Trump might be the sane one. ugh

  22. 22
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Roger Moore:
    But would the Republican establishment be interested at that point in backing Jeb, however solid his establishment credenza? I for one would find his incompetence disqualifyng.

  23. 23
    pamelabrown53 says:

    @Amir Khalid:
    I’m more for beating on Rubio than a dead horse.Hopefully, Jeb!’s death spiral will provide enough dirt against Rubio to take him with Jeb. Because Rubio’s shallowness and vacuity might not be enough.

  24. 24
    Calouste says:

    @dmsilev: Trump’s business, the Trump Organization, has 22,450 employees according to Wikipedia, and Trump has been running it since 1971. That he knows how to organize stuff should come as no surprise, he’s no Carson. That Bush is worse than Trump in the specific field of political organizing is unexpected, although the Bushes hasn’t really been running a major campaign since 2004, so a lot of their team has moved somewhere else, compared to the Bush1-Bush2 period where the gap between the 1992 and 2000 Presidential elections was filled with the 1994 and 1998 Texas and Florida gubernatorial campaigns.

  25. 25
    Germy Shoemangler says:

    Listening to old Cliff Edwards tunes on youtube right now. Lovely songs and lyrics:

    I could show the world how to smile
    I could be glad all of the while
    I could change the gray skies to blue
    If I had you

    I could leave the old days behind
    Leave all my pals, I’d never mind
    I could start my life anew
    If I had you

    I could climb a snow-capped mountain
    Sail the mighty ocean wide
    I could cross the burning desert
    If I had you by my side

    I could be a king, dear, uncrowned
    Humble or poor, rich or renowned
    There is nothin’ I couldn’t do
    If I had you

  26. 26
    Mike J says:

    @Roger Moore: Can”t we all agree we’d like to stick a fork in Jeb!, and we’re not really that concerned about the culinary justification for it?

  27. 27
    kc says:

    OT, sorry: Is the site rebuild finished? I hope not. If not, would it be too much to ask for a pinned front page post about issues with the site?

  28. 28
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Mike J:
    What’s always bothered me abut this phrase is, if you already know he’s done, you don’t need to stick a fork in him. Unless it has sharp prongs.

  29. 29
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Amir Khalid: If you are attending, say, a pig roast, when it’s done you can stick a fork in it to pull off some meat to eat. Generic “you”, of course, unless it’s a halal pig roast.

  30. 30
    Litlebritdifrnt says:

    @dmsilev: Well said. Funny how these pro life types are isn’t it.

  31. 31
    Amir Khalid says:

    @kc:
    If The Gods haven’t granted us such a post by now, it’s unlikely they ever will.

  32. 32
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Gin & Tonic:
    That sounds unhygienic. Shouldn’t you get your host to carve you a piece?

  33. 33
    Peale says:

    @Amir Khalid: Oddly, even though I know about testing cakes and meats with forks, I always thought this particular metaphor referred to a way to make certain something was actually dead. I suppose holding a mirror under a nose or checking for a pulse would be more gentle and accurate. But inserting a fork is probably more fun.

  34. 34
    tybee says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    you haven’t been to many pig roasts, have you?

  35. 35

    Having a mediocre but basically competent campaign organization was what let Romney outlast the clowns. If Jeb:( doesn’t… this primary gets weirder by the minute.

    @Amir Khalid:
    The idea is that you are predicting X is done, and urging someone to test it to prove your point.

  36. 36
    Peale says:

    To be a delegate nominee, does one need to pay one’s own way to the convention if the candidate wins? If the lack of a delegates a signal of the fact that not enough people want to be publicly known as “bush supporters” or not enough want to shell out their own money to go to a convention for him.

  37. 37
    Roger Moore says:

    @Amir Khalid:
    I think the idea is that you’re proclaiming that something is done and it’s now time for the formal test.

  38. 38
    Roger Moore says:

    @Mike J:

    Can”t we all agree we’d like to stick a fork in Jeb!, and we’re not really that concerned about the culinary justification for it?

    I would definitely like to stick a fork in all of the Republican candidates– one of AsianGrlMN’s very rusty pitchforks.

  39. 39
    Amir Khalid says:

    @tybee:
    (Looks at tybee suspiciously.) How did you know that?

  40. 40
    srv says:

    I think these posts are tantamount to bullying.

    We can all see that Jeb is trapped by family and events and has no way out. There needs to be a safe place for Jeb. So please consider focusing on the legitimate candidates and leave this poor guy alone.

  41. 41
    Geoduck says:

    I still wouldn’t be at all surprised if Bush manages to get the nomination in the end.

  42. 42
    trollhattan says:

    @pamelabrown53:
    You may be right and in any case, this line is a thing of beauty:

    Because Rubio’s shallowness and vacuity might not be enough.

    I can’t envision Cruz emerging because he’s so profoundly repellent and also, too, because good old dad will get Carson-level scrutiny, at which point we’ll get to know someone even more of a barking lunatic than hundred-dollar Ben.

  43. 43
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @Germy Shoemangler: 42 cats, monumental (19th cen) style: shoulda gone for 1.5mill!!

  44. 44
    Germy Shoemangler says:

    @Another Holocene Human: the painting and its title are awe-inspiring.

  45. 45
    trollhattan says:

    @srv:

    please consider focusing on the legitimate candidates

    Still waiting to find one. Probably hidden alongside those WMDs.

  46. 46
    Luthe says:

    Now that I think about it, it occurs to me the Bush family are kind of like political cockroaches. I wouldn’t count Jeb! out unless I personally drove the stake in myself.

  47. 47
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @Amir Khalid: As someone who spent a childhood of sticking knives, forks, and bamboo skewers into nasty breads and muffins that most assuredly were not done, I beg to differ with this etymology.

    At best, if you follow this notion, it’s a confident prognostication. Go ahead. Stick that fork in it. See if I’m right.

  48. 48
    Another Holocene Human says:

    Also, some recipes do not compliantly come clean on cue. Too long ago for me to remember which ones, although I’d bet those sticky puddings and volcano cakes are prime examples.

  49. 49
    kc says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    Maybe if I ask Cole on Twitter …

  50. 50
    Amir Khalid says:

    @kc:
    Do so at your own peril, for John Cole is a wrathful god.

  51. 51
    Josie says:

    @kc: Evidently they are working on a complete new comment system which will be rolled out sometime in the future. They have indicated that a lot of problems will be fixed when that happens. They haven’t said specifically when that will be.

  52. 52
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Amir Khalid: Sometimes you’re just hungry.

  53. 53
    Brachiator says:

    @srv:

    There needs to be a safe place for Jeb.

    Doesn’t “Kennebunkport” mean “safe place?”

    * Actually, “Kennebunk” most likely means “long cut bank,” for the pedants. And yeah, Jeb was born in Midland, Texas, but the crime family goes to the mattresses at the family stronghold in Kennebunkport.

  54. 54
    jurassicpork says:

    Virtual Book Sale– Great deals for great books. Please pass along. We desperately need the money.

  55. 55
    lethargytartare says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    @Roger Moore:
    Either way, it’s a test for doneness. It doesn’t actually do anything to the meat/cake.

    I assume it’s the contracted form of:

    “Stick a fork in (cake/sausage) [you’ll see] it’s done.”

  56. 56
    kc says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    Maybe we should nominate a representative to email him. I nominate Amir Khalid.

    He’d yell at me, but not you, surely. Plus he loves emails … :D

  57. 57
    trollhattan says:

    @kc:
    Must compose in ALL CAPS.

  58. 58
    Ajabu says:

    @Germy Shoemangler:
    You’re right. It’s a beautiful lyric. Hardly anybody writes like that anymore.
    However (he says humbly) I do:
    Here’s the lyric for a song I wrote for my wife – that’s on my “Chocolate Fox” CD.

    You Are My Star
    You light my way to heaven
    Everywhere you are
    Shadows dissipate and sun shines through ’cause

    You LIght My World
    There’s nothing till you smile and
    It amazes me, when you hold me I’m set free

    Birds will sing, And it’s Spring
    Even through the longest nights of winter
    I smell scent of Bougainvillea
    Paradise is mine on earth now

    You Truly Are
    The star that lights my way and
    All my pain is past
    ‘Cause we share our lives at last

    I wrote that for our wedding and remain proud of it 2 & a half decades later. (And the melody is pretty, too.) Plus, who else ever used Bougainvillea in a song lyric?

  59. 59
    Amir Khalid says:

    @kc:
    And why would John Cole refrain from yelling at me? I nominate kc.

  60. 60
    rikyrah says:

    Blindspot Renewed for Season 2 at NBC
    By Michael Ausiello / November 9 2015, 11:04 AM PST

    Blindspot has a freshly-inked renewal deal to show off.
    A mere two months into its launch, NBC has already picked up the rookie hit for a second season.

    Blindspot thus far is averaging 8.7 million weekly viewers and a 2.4 rating — sometimes equaling the combined demo delivery for time slot rivals Castle and NCIS: LA. Those numbers grow to 12.7 mil and a 3.7 with best available DVR playback data.

    “We are over the moon with the success of Blindspot, and want to thank our producers and amazing cast for creating one of the most riveting shows on television,” said Jennifer Salke, President of NBC Entertainment. “We literally can’t wait to see what the second season will bring.”
    Blindspot is the first new fall series of the 2015-16 season to snag a Season 2 renewal.

    http://tvline.com/2015/11/09/b.....-2-at-nbc/

  61. 61
    Nate Dawg says:

    If you all don’t think Jeb can pick up the pieces when the clown car crashes (a la Romney 2012), then you’re seriously mistaken. Rubio is a complete rube and is seriously lacking in the gravitas department. The media is priming everyone for a “comeback kid” routine with ole Jeb. Just you wait.

  62. 62
    Mike in NC says:

    @Calouste:

    Trump Organization

    Would that be some sort of an homage to the Organization Todt, which employed prison laborers and was run by Albert Speer during WWII?

  63. 63
    Applejinx says:

    Stick a fork in him. He’s cake.

    The thing about these guys is, they’re that committed to not governing, and it’s affecting their work of running for office.

    Think about it. Trump’s used to doing things, even if they’re dumb things. Of course he has an organization. As for Carson, that’s more of a demented populist groundswell and God knows where it’s coming from but he’s not likely to know much about how to do this stuff.

    It’s flat out weird that Bush doesn’t know this stuff, though. But then, they’re princelings who never had to do a lick of work, him and his cheerfully dumb brother. He is just going through the motions, as Mom and Poppy look on in despair and some form of satisfaction that THEY knew this stuff better. Poppy’s like, I dun fucked up. Kids can’t even get elected.

  64. 64
    piratedan7 says:

    these guys just want to win, doesn’t mean that they actually want to DO…. witness the evidence of W’s reign of error…..

  65. 65
    Yutsano says:

    @mai naem mobile:

    President Cruz is enough to make me soil my underwear.

    Not me. If you think that anyone in the Republican establishment is going to let someone like Rafael near the Presidency I got bridges to sell you. He does have eligibility issues that no one is bothering to resolve since he is getting pretty much nowhere right now. If he starts gaining traction you bet your bippie that’s gonna become an issue.

  66. 66
    max says:

    @Nate Dawg: Rubio is a complete rube and is seriously lacking in the gravitas department. The media is priming everyone for a “comeback kid” routine with ole Jeb. Just you wait.

    They’ll try. They like Jeb. They like Rubio. They don’t like Trump. Which is going to be fucked up if Trump manages to bag it.

    max
    [‘Oh, the shit storms they’ll have.’]

  67. 67
    PurpleGirl says:

    @Germy Shoemangler: One of my kitten cam sites mentioned it the other day. Isn’t it a great painting.

  68. 68
    WaterGirl says:

    Tom, my books – well, actually your books – arrived and are now in the hands of my friends. One early birthday gift and one late birthday gift.

    My best friend (physicist) was excited about the book once he read the back cover. The second book is for a friend who is not a scientist but is intrigued by science-y stuff, and his wife just texted me to say that he LOVES the book. Just one day after getting the book, he is more than halfway through.

    Success!

  69. 69
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Applejinx:
    This is the sixth Bush presidential campaign, of which three have either put the candidate in the White House or kept him there. You’d expect some process knowledge/competence at the candidate’s level to be retained in the family.

  70. 70
    Luthe says:

    @Yutsano: If Cruz even gets near the nom, I want a very loud chorus of Dems asking if he counts as a “natural-born citizen” since he wasn’t even born in a US territory (like McCain), let alone a state. I want every single attack they pulled in the “Obama’s really a-Kenyan!” smear biting them in ass.

  71. 71
    Luthe says:

    @Amir Khalid: That’s what they have little people for. To remember things for them.

  72. 72
    catclub says:

    @Nate Dawg:

    If you all don’t think Jeb can pick up the pieces when the clown car crashes (a la Romney 2012)

    But Romney also had more delegates than any one else in 2012 – probably the whole time. Much easier to pick up the pieces in that situation.

    Frankly, I think Romney’s chances are improving for the nom in 2016.

  73. 73
    trollhattan says:

    @Amir Khalid:
    “It rubs the lotion on its skin or else it gets Bar’s ruler again.”

  74. 74
    pamelabrown53 says:

    @trollhattan:
    As a liberal democrat I find my self in a blackout when it comes to divining the republican primary electorate. It’s more factionalized than the dems, so it’s difficult to see how coalitions will form. Whenever I proffer an analysis, I have to ask myself: is this wishful thinking?

  75. 75
    Belafon says:

    @Amir Khalid: And you can “have your cake and eat it, too”, while you can’t “eat your cake and have it, too.” Some of our idioms have been distorted from their original intent.

  76. 76
    p.a. says:

    Jeb? isn’t out of it. Incorrect Assumption 1) is that the Republican party wants or has engineered an open democratic process to determine its nominee.

    Now it comes down to who controls the Republican party. We don’t know, but given Incorrect Assumption 1) we can make a good guess. Hence, Jeb¿ isn’t done.

  77. 77
    WaterGirl says:

    @Yutsano: How does it feel to be you again? :-)

  78. 78
    Tom Levenson says:

    @WaterGirl: Awesome! My thanks and thanks again!

  79. 79
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Ajabu:

    Plus, who else ever used Bougainvillea in a song lyric?

    I’m pretty sure Paul Simon did at some point. One of the songs on Rhythm of the Saints, maybe?

  80. 80
    Cervantes says:

    @lethargytartare:

    Exactly right.

  81. 81
    Yutsano says:

    @WaterGirl: I HAZ MY NYM BACK!!! Better still, it’s not causing the issues the old FYWP system was causing. YAY!!!

    @Tom Levenson: I meant to tell you: last night at dinner my father mentioned reading your book that I gave him for Christmas last year. He not only found it entertaining but educational. Is Vulcan going to have a Kindle release? He’s been reading a lot on that lately.

  82. 82
    Peale says:

    @Luthe: Won’t help. They’ll just accuse of of being hypocritical because they know that Obama isn’t eligible and we’re just covering for him. In fact, they’ll probably vote for him all the more if we claim to be upset. What we should do is say how proud we’ll be to vote for the first actual undocumented non-birthright citizen president and how if he’s elected we’ll love our country for the first time. I think liberals may need to enthusiastically embrace Ted Cruz in order to destroy him.

  83. 83
    p.a. says:

    @pamelabrown53: You’re overthinking. Cleek’s Law. After that it’s TV $ and ground game $, i.e. the most efficient of the BigMoneyBoyz boy.

  84. 84
    Tim C. says:

    I too will join the ranks of people who can no longer understand the internal dynamics of the GOP race. I do think it roughly comes down to the candidates who occupy the “Not-completely-totally-insane-but-sadistic-aristocrats” and the “completely-totally-utterly-believing-in-things-that-are-demonstrably-false” niches. The problem is I’m not even sure who is in each category anymore. Trump for example. Is he scamming and saying the crap he knows the worst part of the base want’s to hear? Cruz is similar, he’s a complete sociopath, but is he sincere? Does it matter? Finally, I agree with Josh Marshall that Carson is a candidate the way “Springtime For Hitler” was a play. Someone who is really there to run a mail-order scam, but is now getting way more attention and success he was supposed to and is paying the price.

  85. 85
    Tom Levenson says:

    @Yutsano: It’s already out on Kindle. Audible too, in case anyone rolls that way.

    Not that I’m into self promotion in any way. Not me.

    (Thanks so much for the support. And thank your dad too.)

  86. 86
    NotMax says:

    11 2 dimensional chess.

  87. 87
    WaterGirl says:

    @Tom Levenson: Thanks for making me look good to my friends! :-)

  88. 88
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Luthe: The thing is, under a reasonable parsing of the law, Cruz is pretty clearly a natural-born citizen. His mother was a US citizen, and satisfied the residency requirements for her child to inherit her citizenship, regardless of his birthplace. And US law doesn’t have any definition of “natural-born citizen” other than “citizen by reason of birth”.

    (Barack Obama’s mother was also a US citizen, but there’s at least a plausible interpretation of the law in effect at the time that says she didn’t satisfy the residency requirements. However, Obama was born in the United States, so it doesn’t matter; he was born a citizen anyway. But that’s why the argument for his citizenship rests on his location of birth.)

    You can throw the same crap at Cruz that the Republicans threw at Obama, but only by being equally dishonest, which I don’t think we want to do.

  89. 89
    WaterGirl says:

    @Tom Levenson: iBooks?

  90. 90
    WaterGirl says:

    @Yutsano: Yay is right!!

  91. 91
    Cervantes says:

    @Luthe:

    No. Just no.

  92. 92
    Danack says:

    Whoever gets the nomination is going to have an incredibly tough time actually running a campaign as it seems one of these scenarios has to take place:

    * One of the trailing no-hopers gets lucky and surges in March/April to become the nominee. This leaves them as the nominee but with no real national organisation behind them, and only a few months to sort one out.
    * There is no nominee before the convention in July and there is a shit-show getting to a nominee.
    * Trump or Carson solidify their lead, and the nomination goes to one of them. People who aren’t GOP activists get tired of their schtick almost immediately, and then have to endure another 9 months of them.

    Obviously predicting the future is a mugs game – but one of these scenarios has to take place right?

  93. 93
    Roger Moore says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    You’d expect some process knowledge/competence at the candidate’s level to be retained in the family.

    Two points:

    1) It’s now be more than 10 years since the last Bush campaign, and 15 years since a Bush last faced a contested primary. That has been a very busy time for the development of campaigns what with Citizens United and all, and the Bush family retainers haven’t necessarily kept up.

    2) The family isn’t the candidate; ¿Jeb? is. He has to be in at least nominal control of the campaign, and he certainly has to be the guy who goes out there and plays the part of the candidate. If he sucks or doesn’t want to play, the campaign has a problem that all of the family experience can’t necessarily fix.

  94. 94
    Tom Levenson says:

    @WaterGirl: Yup. It’s there. Can’t figure out how to link to an iTunes page, but it’s there.

  95. 95
    Roger Moore says:

    @Belafon:

    Some of our idioms have been distorted from their original intent.

    The one about bad apples has been completely twisted in its meaning, for example.

  96. 96
    Ajabu says:

    @Matt McIrvin:
    Have to check that out. But, was he looking at Bougainvillea when he wrote it? Huh? That’s some Caribbean stuff…

  97. 97
    Cervantes says:

    @Tom Levenson:

    Yup. It’s there.

  98. 98
    Kenneth Fair says:

    @Matt McIrvin: Good catch regarding Paul Simon. “Bougainvillea” is in The Coast, on Rhythm of the Saints:

    A family of musicians took shelter for the night
    In the little harbor church of St. Cecilia
    Two guitars, batá, bass drum and tambourine
    Rose of Jericho and bougainvillea

  99. 99
    grumpy realist says:

    @jurassicpork: Ordered Tatterdemalion. Looks very interesting!

  100. 100
    WaterGirl says:

    @Tom Levenson: Yay! That’s how I will read my copy. :-)

  101. 101
    Satby says:

    @Ajabu: aww, that’s sweet! And glad you popped in, Baud was asking if anyone had heard from you!

  102. 102
    Roger Moore says:

    @Tim C.:

    I too will join the ranks of people who can no longer understand the internal dynamics of the GOP race.

    I don’t think that anyone genuinely understands it, or if they do, they’re either not sharing or lost in the noise of all the people who only think they understand it pontificating.

  103. 103
    NotMax says:

    @grumpy realist

    Porker has been regularly begging for cash online for nigh unto a decade.

  104. 104
    Roger Moore says:

    @Matt McIrvin:
    There’s a whole bunch of factors with Obama’s citizenship. For example, there’s a legitimate question of whether his father had properly divorced his first wife before marrying Ann Dunham, which would make their marriage invalid, and that might change Barack’s citizenship status in some cases.

  105. 105

    @Ajabu:

    “Rhythm of the Saints” is Simon’s album with Latin American and Carribbean musicians, so it makes sense.

  106. 106
    Cervantes says:

    @Roger Moore:

    Let’s say both his parents were bigamists; he was still born in these United States.

  107. 107

    @Roger Moore:

    But not if was born on US soil. I don’t think there’s ever been any kind of court decision saying that illegitimate children aren’t citizens. Could potentially make a difference if born overseas, yes, but not if his mother was the US citizen.

    IIRC, for a long time you could only claim US citizenship when born overseas through your mother, not your father, so a lot of Vietnamese war children were not allowed to immigrate even when their fathers wanted to bring them here. I think that’s been changed, though.

    In the case of Obama, the validity of his parents’ marriage would only matter if he was claiming US citizenship through his father.

  108. 108
    CONGRATULATIONS! says:

    You can throw the same crap at Cruz that the Republicans threw at Obama, but only by being equally dishonest, which I don’t think we want to do.

    @Matt McIrvin: I would like to do it. Very much. For several years. They fucking well deserve it.

  109. 109
    Yutsano says:

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone): Hawai’i became a state in 1949. Obama’s citizenship should have never been a question, which is why they tried to prove so hard that he was born somewhere else. Of course how two separate Hawai’ian newspapers had the birth announcement has never been properly explained. Except by magic Negro powers.

    And having also been born in Hawai’i, this irritates me to no end.

  110. 110
    NotMax says:

    @Yutsano

    Typo.

    1959.

  111. 111

    @Yutsano:

    Let’s face it, they were thrashing around to find anything they could, and the birther thing sounded superficially “smart” until you actually looked into it.

    Especially the stuff about how Obama’s mother was too young for him to be born a citizen even if he was born in the US. I never heard of a rash of kids born to mothers under the age of 25 inside the US being declared non-citizens, did you? But suddenly his mother’s age was so frickin’ vitally important.

  112. 112
    SFAW says:

    @Ajabu:

    Plus, who else ever used Bougainvillea in a song lyric?

    I think The Sylvers did.

  113. 113

    @Yutsano:

    Shorter me: Birtherism was invented so stupid people could feel smart.

  114. 114
    SFAW says:

    @Yutsano:

    Of course how two separate Hawai’ian newspapers had the birth announcement has never been properly explained. Except by magic Negro powers.

    Not magic, just a time machine.

    Which he would no doubt use to prevent Jeb-Jeb Brinks from Killing Baby Hilter. Thanks, Obama!

  115. 115
    Roger Moore says:

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone):

    IIRC, for a long time you could only claim US citizenship when born overseas through your mother, not your father, so a lot of Vietnamese war children were not allowed to immigrate even when their fathers wanted to bring them here. I think that’s been changed, though.

    I think that applied only in the case of children whose parents weren’t married, where the paternity was at least theoretically questionable. Genetic testing obviously makes it easier to prove paternity, so it’s more practical to allow illegitimate children to inherit from their fathers now. AFAIK, when the rule was that only one parent had to be a citizen, either parent would do as long as the parents were married.

  116. 116
    SFAW says:

    @Roger Moore:

    AFAIK, when the rule was that only one parent had to be a citizen, either parent would do as long as the parents were married.

    Hmm, I wonder where that puts me.

    My parents were married. Just not to each other.

  117. 117
    GregB says:

    Jebs! new motto is: “I will make America so…ehhh.”

  118. 118

    @Roger Moore:

    Yes, the fact that we were still talking about illegitimate children (children whose parents were not married) should be implied throughout my comment.

    You know who else’s parents weren’t married?
    ;-)

  119. 119
    Roger Moore says:

    @Cervantes:
    Sure, but if he had been born in Kenya, as the birthers claim, then the legal status of his parents’ marriage becomes important. If his parents weren’t legally married, then he would be a citizen provided that his mother was a citizen, which everyone agrees she was, and had lived in the US or one of its territories for at least one year, which she had (8 USC 1409).

    It notably doesn’t require his mother to have lived in the US for at least one year after a certain age. That’s significant because it’s a more lenient requirement than if his parents had been legally married, which required her to have been a resident of the US for at least 5 years after the age of 14, which she didn’t meet because she wasn’t quite 19 yet when Barack was born. So if you accept the counterfactual that he was born in Kenya, then the legal status of his parents’ marriage becomes important, and he actually benefits from his parents’ marriage being invalid. Of course then you get into the question of whether American or Kenyan law covers the legality of the marriage given that Barack Sr. was still married to his first wife when he married Ann Dunham, etc.

  120. 120
    Roger Moore says:

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone):

    You know who else’s parents weren’t married?

    Jesus.

  121. 121
    Brachiator says:

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone):

    Birtherism was invented so stupid people could feel smart.

    Ha! But this is the secret sauce of all nutcase conspiracy theories, the kind you hear on late night radio. No matter how “rationally” the theory is presented, it soon becomes clear that a) the theory is nutty, and b) the purveyor of the theory is proud that he or she is possessed of some deep secret that, if known and understood, would change the world and elevate the conspiracy nut to the height of fame. Because only he or she has the deep knowledge that is not understood or denied by experts and official wise persons.

  122. 122
    PurpleGirl says:

    @Roger Moore: If IIRC, that residency for 5 years after the age of 14 really referred to children who were born in the US but then were taken back by their parents to the country of their parents’ birth, i.e. a girl child born in the US and taken to Sicily by her parents who then on her own moves back to the US. I don’t know if that would have kept my mother from conferring citizenship on her first child, born just before her 18th birthday. And my mother was born in the US just days after her mother arrived here from Sicily. (My mother never went to Sicily, and her first husband was from Ecuador.)

    ETA: I think the whole birtherism was grasping at straws to deligitimatize President Obama anyway they could.

  123. 123
    Phil C says:

    @srv: lol

  124. 124
    GHayduke (formerly lojasmo) says:

    Where’ stat R2R jackass when you need her?

  125. 125
    Cervantes says:

    @Roger Moore:

    Yes, I hadn’t (but should have) realized you were playing with “the counterfactual that he was born in Kenya”!

  126. 126
    Roger Moore says:

    @PurpleGirl:

    If IIRC, that residency for 5 years after the age of 14 really referred to children who were born in the US but then were taken back by their parents to the country of their parents’ birth, i.e. a girl child born in the US and taken to Sicily by her parents who then on her own moves back to the US.

    That might have been the intent, but it wasn’t the letter of the law. The letter of the law was that if the child was born outside the US to one citizen and one alien parent, they were only a citizen if the citizen parent had lived in the US for at least 10 years, at least 5 of which must have been after the age of 14. The most obvious reading of the law would deny citizenship to the child of an 18 year old citizen mother married to an alien father who gives birth outside the US and its territories. So in the counterfactual that Obama was born in Kenya, the legal status of his parents’ marriage would be critical to his citizenship.

  127. 127
    Roger Moore says:

    @Cervantes:

    Yes, I hadn’t (but should have) realized you were playing with “the counterfactual that he was born in Kenya”!

    Sometimes it helps to spell things like that out explicitly. I honestly think some of the counterfactuals around Obama’s citizenship make fun legal conundrums because you have to worry about the legality of is parents’ marriage, which marriage law would have effect if they were “married” in Hawaii but were living in Kenya at the time of Obama’s birth, etc. It seems like the kind of thing that would make a good case for moot court.

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