Russell Simmons’ company RushCard, a prepaid debit card with ridiculous fees mainly used by people too poor to have a bank account [pdf], recently ended a two-week outage. Just let that sink in for a minute: if American Express had a two hour outage, CNN would be issuing updates every ten minutes. But we heard very damn little about RushCard.
Here’s the latest: in a completely voluntary act of good will, RushCard will start compensating users for their losses during the outage. That act of generosity was not compelled by any regulatory agency, because the regulations covering prepaid debit card are ridiculously lax. Take a look at the proposed regulations for those cards – it reads like what those of us who have regular debit and credit cards simply take for granted. But if you’re poor and financially vulnerable, you get this instead:
Wright says the income stored on his card was meant to cover their family’s expenses while she is on leave after spending two weeks in the hospital to treat her brain tumor and pulmonary hypertension. “With my husband now having to take the sole responsibility of our bills, it was very critical that we have access to our money,” she said. “This has brought a ton of stress when I should be resting.”
Two weeks after losing access to their account, Wright says the family is down to just $15. “We don’t have gas money, I’m out of meat to feed my children,” she said. Their water is due to be shut off on Sunday or Monday after they missed a payment that was due on Wednesday. Saturday is the last day Wright has to make a payment on her car before it’s counted as late and impacts her credit score.
When Bernie Sanders advocates postal banking, products like RushCard are the reason why.
SP
Obviously since poor people have running water and cars and are eating meat poverty is not an issue in this country.
ruemara
I agree. I hope that Sanders will start talking about what he needs to have postal bank return to this country. Like, say, a Congress.
Emma
The banks and credit card companies would scream, but postal banking makes sense.
WereBear
@Emma: Of course it makes sense. That is why it makes banksters scream.
NotMax
Simmons obviously will now be at the head of the line to be appointed to the Fed under a Republican administration.
/FSM forbid
schrodinger's cat
Its a good idea, so Republicans will oppose it.
Thoughtful Today
From the WaPo article:
There are sharp differences between the Democratic candidates.
MattF
Our financial system works reasonably well for upper-middle class white people– and works very well indeed for the rich– but fails the poor in just about every way imaginable. There’s lots of possible ways of fixing this, but the theme is to take it out of the hands of the banksters. It’s the rational, as well as the right, thing to do.
Hal
I wonder how much a part chexsystems plays in people not being able to get traditional accounts.
http://www.magnifymoney.com/blog/news/santander-agrees-limit-use-chexsystems790212012
NEWS Toggle navigation
Advertiser Disclosure
NEWS
Santander Agrees to Limit Use of ChexSystems
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Brian Karimzad
Monday, February 23, 2015
MagnifyNews-02-01
On Friday, the Attorney General of New York announced that it had reached an agreement with Santander Bank. Starting from September 30, 2015 Santander will overhaul its use of ChexSystems and has promised to largely eliminate its use of “account abuse” screening which has made it impossible for many people to open a checking account. This follows recent agreements with Capital One and Citibank.
Many people have never heard of ChexSystems. Like Experian, TransUnion and Equifax, ChexSystems is like a credit bureau, except if tracks information related to checking accounts. If you go overdraft on your checking account and never pay back your fees, you will be reported to Chex. Like the credit bureaus, your information will stay in ChexSystems for 7 years. Overdrafts which remain unpaid for 60 days are typically reported, although there are no rigid reporting requirements.
A senior manager at Chase told MagnifyMoney that Chex is the “wild west” of reporting. Banks report to the database at their own discretion. Some banks could report for just a small unpaid balance. For example, one unpaid overdraft of $5 could keep you from opening another bank account for years. Because most banks tend to refuse to open accounts once you have negative information on your report, regardless of the severity.
satby
My Halloween horror story:
You know, as an adult I’ve barely made it into the middle class only for a few years before I was laid off in 12/13. The rest of the time I was (and am again) a struggling single mother with a deadbeat ex and no college degree, and the near impossibility of surviving poverty in this country is unreal. I always made just a tiny bit too much to qualify for any assistance, though my kids got free lunches at school. But we all were uninsured as they grew up, we had utilities cut off over and over, I was in foreclosure twice and often had no money for gas or any necessities. My nadir was finding out my ex had left us .63 cents in the joint account that he looted as he went out the door, never to return. I had a 5 year old, and 8 year old, no groceries and on paper qualified for no assistance at all. We pulled through over and over again, but the fees and penalties I paid when I fell behind on things could have probably given me a healthy cushion when I last was laid off. Imagine getting a $300 paycheck and after deposit having only $180.00. To try to pay a mortgage and feed the kids on. (couldn’t sell the house, at the time it triggered a tax burden, and after splitting the microscopic equity I would have owed my entire income in taxes that year).
The cruelty we put impoverished people through in this wealthy country is astonishing. I don’t blame people when they give up, I am astonished more don’t.
Thoughtful Today
@ruemara:
fixed:
“I agree. I hope that
Sanders[Clinton] will start talking about what he needs to havepostal bank return to[sensible gun regulations in] this country. Like, say, a Congress.”It’s surreal to me that those that complain about Sanders’ policies being unpossible don’t seem to recognize that the single issue that Clinton is more progressive on is even farther from being accomplished.
The point is to lead even in the face of seemingly insurmountable odds.
Hillary’s leading on guns.
Bernie leads on every other issue that’s important to me: Trade, labor, health,
consumerCitizen protections, privacy, war, the death penalty, private prisons, civil liberties, banks, the financial industry, and the environment….Omnes Omnibus
Postal banking is a really good idea.
Roger Moore
@Emma:
I don’t see why, since the main customers for postal banking are people the bank and credit card companies have already written off as not worth their time.
jonas
@Emma: Banks and credit card companies don’t really serve these populations (which was the problem to begin with) so I doubt they would put up much of a stink: it’s the payday lenders and outfits like this RushCard thing that would lose out. Deservedly so, I think.
satby
@Roger Moore: They charge $34 for a .44 cent overdraft. If they can squeeze more blood from customers they will, it’s only when you can’t pay at all and go strict cash on everything that they forget about you.
So yeah, they’ll oppose it with every fiber of their being.
Edited to add: there’s a LOT of working poor that use banks still that would absolutely switch if the postal banking got off the ground. And rural people: my nearest branch is 15 miles away.
NotMax
Post Office hours are less convenient than bank hours.
Make providing low cost or no cost (as in free checking) bank services to those below the median income of the service area a requirement for coverage via FDIC insurance, including having X per cent of deposits be from those in the lower income quintiles .
Emma
@Roger Moore: Because they want a readily exploitable population available. Right now, you can barely function without a checking account. Advertise “free checking” and tons of people sign up. Of course there are fees for this and fees for that. And in a year, there will be a change in the rules about charging for processing checks, or how many times you use your debit card… But in exchange they’ll give you a small-amount credit card… And by the time people realize what’s happening, they really can’t ditch the account, because having it allowed them to move to a nicer apartment, or get a job, or pay for utilities without penalties…
There’s always something. That’s how they screwed thousand of people in Florida over mortgages.
Omnes Omnibus
@NotMax: Most post offices have lobbies that are open for automated services for far longer than the counters are staffed. Put a post office ATM in in the lobby and there you go.
MattF
And by the way, postal banks are not some far-out left-wing utopian concept. They’re everywhere.
NotMax
@NotMax
Amended for clarity.
including having X per cent of depositors be from those in the lower income quintiles
Makes it worthwhile for the banks to scramble for the now shunned business.
NotMax
@Omnes Omnibus
Not here. In fact, even the stamp vending machines have long been removed due to vandalism and theft. ATMs would be a much more tempting target.
Mike J
@NotMax: I imagine ATMs do exist somewhere near you. Why do you think one set of ATMs would have more problems with theft or vandalism than everybody else does?
WereBear
@satby: Gosh yes, it should be far more criminal the way people with almost everything scheme to get richer by impoverishing the rest of us.
I honestly don’t know how people with kids do it. We have four animal dependents who eat far less and don’t wear shoes, and I still wear thrift store clothes, drive one of Ford’s cheapest cars, and haven’t been to the movies in literally years.
So you are amazing. You are.
schrodinger's cat
So what happened in 1967 why were the postal banks discontinued?
pamelabrown53
@Thoughtful Today:
You don’t need to malign either Hillary or Hillary supporters. BTW, I think postal banking is a terrific idea but Bernie didn’t invent it. Glad, though he’s bringing it up in his campaign.
proterozoic
Hey, check out what Simmons just tweeted: https://twitter.com/UncleRUSH/status/660164193950142464
“We are thrown into fire to evolve Or we are made great through hardship. Embrace struggle it is your greatest teacher.”
This would make a helluva addendum to the post.
Thoughtful Today
!
Wells Fargo did nearly exactly this to me:
I had an account with them, or rather, they bought the bank that bought the bank that bought my bank.
It was a ‘free checking’ account. Wells Fargo unilaterally and repeatedly changed the terms and conditions so that they could ‘legally’ steal from my account.
Wells Fargo is one of Hillary’s larger Corporate contributers. Hillary is against many of the Citizen protections that would criminalize Banksters from stealing. She even sneers at the thought of breaking up these Mega-Banks.
…. And having an honest debate about these facts gets a surreal amount of blowback.
Omnes Omnibus
@Thoughtful Today:
Could you provide a cite to support those statements?
Anoniminous
BlockChain technology is moving into the Banking and Finance Industry in a big, big, way. There’s billions of dollars to be made eliminating superfluous costs and
assholespersonnel especially from the mid-level employee to mid-manager levels. Most of what these people do can be easily automated and/or replaced by an Expert System.Anoniminous
@schrodinger’s cat:
LBJ axed it to “streamline federal government.”
NotMax
@Mike J
By the very nature of their being inside the empty lobby of an otherwise closed building, usually a freestanding one (here), removed from traffic and other businesses. Lots of lonely rural post offices nowhere near anything approaching a business district here.
Chyron HR
@Omnes Omnibus:
What part of “BAAAAAW IF YOU VOTE FOR HITLERY YOU’RE THE SAME AS TREY GOWDY” don’t you understand?
different-church-lady
@Roger Moore: Why would that stop them from screaming? It’s the 21st century in the USA: screaming doesn’t need a sound reason anymore.
Elizabelle
I hope postal banking comes up at the Democratic debate.
An issue whose time has come.
Can we email in suggestions for debate questions? Anyone know how that works?
I don’t see it being a divisive issue either. Postal bank customers may not need the range of
fleecingservices provided by our most ethical banks. Wal-Mart cashes checks, doesn’t it? What does that tell you about the need for banking options?different-church-lady
@Omnes Omnibus: Oh FFS, why did you just invite that plague of
locustslinks to two-bit blogs upon us?pamelabrown53
@Omnes Omnibus:
You probably know this already, Omnes. When you contribute to a campaign you’re required name your employer. So what happens is that employees of a corporation are conflated with the corporations themselves. Too many emos love to use this as evidence of “corporatist!”, “oligarchy!”.
Gin & Tonic
@Anoniminous: Here you go.
Anoniminous
@satby:
Across the rural areas of the US people pretty much have given up. The hate and resentment for the coastal areas by “fly over country” has very real causes that are manipulated by the Reich Wing, plutocrats, TPTB, 1% … call ’em what you want … to keep themselves in power.
Omnes Omnibus
@different-church-lady: TT won’t provide links. If TT responds at all, he’ll do something like call me a pro-Hillary troll.
@pamelabrown53: Yes, I do know that. Also, here are the top companies whose employer have provided the most donation to HRC this cycle.
Thoughtful Today
Looks like Wells Fargo has dropped out of the top 20 contributors to Hillary Clinton:
First four of five are all mega-banks. They know Hillary isn’t going to be breaking them up or even pushing for modest Glass-Steagall re-regulations.
Omnes Omnibus
@Thoughtful Today: Lehman Brothers?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Rachel Maddow is hosting a “candidates’ forum” next week and has asked for input, here’s the ways to get in touch.
Chyron HR
@Thoughtful Today:
You forgot the authoritative link to http://www.Bernisourlordandsavior.com.
Elizabelle
@Thoughtful Today:
This may surprise or dismay you, but having Bernie in the race makes me even more positive about voting for Hillary, although I would be delighted to vote for Bernie just as much.
Issue for me is electability, and if it’s Hillary, using and then implementing some of Bernie’s ideas, I am good with that. I appreciate his pushing her to the left. There’s votes, and good public policy there.
It’s been wonderful to have Bernie in the race, raising the right questions and offering good solutions that benefit the working and middle class. He’s got some great ideas (advocating for postal banking, etc.), and college for all is not pie in the sky. He’s probably ahead of the curve on that one. What does a society do, in the face of technology, robotics, the gig economy, globalization? It’s not the same workplace now and might get even tighter, very quickly. Those jobs are gone, gone. What do we do?
I don’t think you help your cause very much by tearing down Hillary. Objective is Democrats keeping the White House. If it’s Bernie, great. If it’s Hillary, great. We need coattails too.
Please do not inject the “Bernie or nothing” crap. It’s poison. You should know that.
Sometimes I wonder if you do.
magurakurin
@Thoughtful Today: whatever. Sanders isnt going to win. I cant see investing any energy at all in something that isnt even a dream. If it wiggles your waggle to believe Sanders can win, well, good for you I guess. But absolutely nothing you could possibly say or do would make change my belief that Sanders has zero chance of ever being the nominee.
Anoniminous
@Gin & Tonic:
And Moni and Dwolla.
While BitCoin is mostly nonsense the idea behind BitCoin is starting to take off. Barcelona is seriously forging ahead to issue their own alternate currency to the euro. I’m out of links so you’ll have to search: barcelona alternative currency.
Elizabelle
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I love that you guys always know what’s up.
Look forward to that.
Debbie
@Omnes Omnibus:
Even beyond the grave…
Thoughtful Today
Interesting, I was looking at OpenSecrets.org “CAREER PROFILE (SINCE 1989) – Top Contributors – Senator Hillary Clinton”, which shows millions of dollars being contributed by Banks and their employees to Senator Hillary Clinton.
Omnes only looks at a superficial slice of more recent contributors. Very … lawyerly.
Baud
We can stop all this infighting by coming together behind my candidacy.
I have no donors big or small. I am completely uncorrupted.
For those who care:
Hillary 2016
Bernie 2016
Note:
“The money came from the organizations’ PACs; their individual members, employees or owners; and those individuals’ immediate families. At the federal level, the organizations themselves did not donate, as they are prohibited by law from doing so. Organization totals include subsidiaries and affiliates.”
Anoniminous
@Thoughtful Today:
Yup, UNLIMITED BRINKS TRUCKS CORPORATE CASH is flowing to Hillary.
Thoughtful Today
@Elizabelle:
Please either read what I’ve written or ignore what others are claiming I’ve written.
Please don’t mischaracterize what I’ve written. There are more than enough trolls here to do that already.
MomSense
@satby:
You are a tough woman. I’m in awe of you.
The economy is rigged against ordinary people and it shocks me how many would rather blame a woman with children who earns minimum wage and has food assistance than the real culprits. I do think that deep down people realize how precarious their economic situation is and that is what fuels the misdirected anger. Some of us prefer to educate ourselves and some of us would rather pretend that poor people are being punished for doing something wrong. The latter allows one to believe it could never happen to them.
satby
@WereBear: Aww, thanks; but not really. Edited to add: you too MomSense!
I didn’t want to step on the toes of the official B-J autobiographer but I had no idea as a securely middle class person before my divorce that this happened to people. Like most people I always thought that there would be things that took care of poor people… and that the courts would go after deadbeats effectively (nope). So I tell people sometimes. Because no one ever thinks it can happen to them.
Elizabelle
@Thoughtful Today: Here’s the thing. I do read most of your stuff, and it’s hard not to see the digs at Hillary Clinton in them.
Do you not see them? You can praise your candidate without running down the other. Save your ammo for the Republicans.
It seems Bernie and Hillary are walking a pretty fine line. Yes, they skirmish a little, but neither is going scorched earth, nor do they have to. Both realize it’s crucial to keep the White House in Democratic hands.
I think both can make the other a better candidate. FWIW, Elizabeth Warren had my heart, but if it’s Hillary pushed to the left by Bernie, I am good with that. Hillary has been very supportive — over all of her time in private and public life — on a long list of women’s and family and children’s issues. It’s you and the Republicans and their media mouthpieces who are pushing the “prisoner of big banks” and “no different from the Republicans” themes.
I unfriended a Bernie group on Facebook, because I was picking up the “no candidate but Bernie” fervor from a lot of the purity ponies.
That’s ratfvcking, Thoughtful Today.
Bernie’s running as a Democrat. Not as an independent. Get a clue.
satby
@Elizabelle: this
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@Thoughtful Today:
You appear to have overlooked the part printed in red, bold, italicized letters saying “The organizations themselves did not make the donations.”
When you donate money to a politician or political organization, you are required by law to state the name of your employer. I guess you can try to make an argument that every single employee of Citibank, from the CEO to the IT department to the tellers, all have the exact same aims and motives for donating to Clinton, but the actual common denominator between all of those companies is that they’re all large corporations with tens of thousands of employees, many of whom are based in the state Clinton was a US senator for.
Thoughtful Today
@Elizabelle:
Lets be clear.
I’ll vote for Walmart’s Board Member knowing they’re less poisonous than the alternatives.
But the families here that are expressing hardships, I know they won’t be helped much, if any, by a President Hillary Clinton. They’ll just be hurt less than by an official Republican.
Elizabelle
@Thoughtful Today:
Gotta head out for a while (that Halloween candy ain’t gonna buy itself), but one further point:
Are you old enough to remember Ted Kennedy primarying Jimmy Carter from the left? That’s a contest JEC did not need. As much good as Ted Kennedy did with his political life, I will never forgive him that. (Chappaquiddick was a character test failed, but taking on a debilitated Democratic president when you yourself had no chance of winning — very poor judgment.)
He — and John Anderson — opened the door for Reagan.
I think Bernie remembers that. I doubt he thinks the middle class can sustain even four years of a Republican in the White House. It would not be “cleansing” or teach anyone a lesson. It would be disastrous.
Elizabelle
@Thoughtful Today: Really? I think President Hillary could do a world of good.
I guess you don’t think that Nobama has done much with his time in office either.
Why not allow yourself to be surprised, pleasantly, rather than be all upset about a future that might be better than you envision?
satby
@Anoniminous: I agree because I see it every day.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
John Fugelsang had a caller this week who said he thought the polls were rigged because everybody calling into progressive talk radio shows is for “Bernie!”
I hope so. As often happens with message candidates, he seems to have convinced himself he can win.
pamelabrown53
@Thoughtful Today:
Omnes isn’t being “lawyerly” but again your Paulite fervor demonstrates your sleight of hand at conflating a New York senator’s race with a president’s. What is the biggest business in New York and wouldn’t liberal employees also be included as specific financial corporation contributors?
Thoughtful Today
@Elizabelle:
“I guess you don’t think that Nobama has done much with his time in office either.”
He kept us out of war with Iran, a country and it’s people I don’t see as an enemy.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Isn’t that relatively sane for call in shows?
satby
@Thoughtful Today:
Dude, I’m one of them and the more you yammer, the more I lean Hillary. Bernie is fine, he’s a good guy and doing better than I expected, but EITHER candidate on the Dem side is great for me and mine. I want the one with coattails, so that all these fantastic programs get enacted. I’ve had years of vaporware to live on.
ruemara
@Thoughtful Today: Dude. This is Sanders’ plan. The onus is on him generating the mechanism to make it happen. This isn’t about Hillary. Get some help.
Mike J
@Mnemosyne (tablet):
I find it bizarre to believe that the majority of employees have the same political beliefs as their board of directors, yet many people insist it’s true.
Anoniminous
@ satby:
Me too.
Thor Heyerdahl
@Thoughtful Today:
Rather we have to deal with purity trolls instead…
Amir Khalid
@Thoughtful Today:
Obama’s done a bit more than that, as I recall.
Thor Heyerdahl
@pamelabrown53:
That would take some thinking – more than taking off shoes and socks to count to 20. Is TT the alter ego of “Brinks Trucks” RtR?
satby
@Omnes Omnibus: I worked for Kirkland and Ellis as a paralegal 25 years ago. Republican firm, had Big Jim Thompson as a partner after he left the governor’s mansion in IL. And very open and supportive of gays back then, in the Chicago office at least.
Though Mayer, Brown, and Platt had Christmas parties that were right out of Desk Set
And my point for TT: can’t totally predict political leanings just by the firm listed as your employer.
Omnes Omnibus
@pamelabrown53: FWIW the 2016 list I posted showed a bunch of big banks and BigLaw firms. It is not like the choice of the listing donors for this election cycle changed the general character of the list. It just left off entities like Lehman Brothers that no longer exist. If the point TT wanted to make was that employees of banks and BigLaw firms support HRC over Bernie, I think no one will argue or be surprised.
Stella B
@Elizabelle: Amen!
Omnes Omnibus
@satby: And even overtly political law firms always have some partners (etc.) who are on the other side.
Tripod
@schrodinger’s cat:
FDIC insurance and better interest rates elsewhere.
Baud
@Amir Khalid:
Reminds me of this
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/dem-thinks-he-can-win-the-anti-obama
Villago Delenda Est
@Emma: Let them scream. If they keep it up long enough, they’ll be silenced permanently.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Baud: What a fucking buffoon. DIdn’t he endorse O’Malley the other day?
satby
@Omnes Omnibus: Which you would think could be obvious, but nooooo!
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@ruemara:
Also, too, it’s not like it’s unheard of that candidates from the same party end up picking up ideas from each other. I think sometimes it’s even part of the deal when negotiating endorsements. So it’s not like this idea would be totally dead if Clinton beats Sanders the way it would be if a Republican wins.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Haven’t heard hide nor hair about him since he gave that interviews.
I wonder why he would choose O’Malley over Sanders.
Baud
@Mnemosyne (tablet):
Warren supports postal banking also.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mnemosyne (tablet): It’s not like it would be totally dead even if HRC gets the nomination and doesn’t pick it up. Sanders has a seat in the Senate and can push for it from there.
Thoughtful Today
@pamelabrown53:
You’re saying that Hillary Clinton’s a servant of money only because New York state, one of the bluest states in the country, wouldn’t be able to elect a Democratic leader unless they had Big Bank Money behind them?
It’s late 2015 and I still haven’t heard her come out for breaking up the mega banks or even in favor of passing strong Glass-Steagall legislation.
And, no, her mild disagreements with the TPP won’t last beyond December 2016.
Villago Delenda Est
@Thoughtful Today: Isn’t less a win over more? The perfect, you know, is the enemy of the good. Baby steps. Increments. Because revolutions are things that get out of control very fast no matter what the initial intentions.
Gwangung
@Thoughtful Today: This is a dishonest statement, given “employees” cover tellers, etc. Continuing to troll after this was pointed out is just being an asshole.
satby
@Thoughtful Today: Tell the truth, you voted for Nader too didn’t you?
pamelabrown53
@Omnes Omnibus:
Understand. Thanks.
How much of the “support” is about backing the perceived winner so are hedging bets against republicans?
sharl
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: OMG, Schweitzer DID endorse O’Malley, just about a week ago.
ETA: Assuming it is kept up to date, there is a Wikipedia page for 2016 Prez endorsements. FWIW, Eliot Spitzer and Gary Hart have also endorsed O’Malley.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@Thoughtful Today:
The two largest non-government employers in New York state are JPMorgan and Citibank:
http://www.businessinsider.com/new-york-citys-biggest-employers-2012-4
The idea that employees of the state’s largest employers would make political donations is only shocking to people who don’t understand how political donations work.
Gwangung
@Thoughtful Today: yes. SATSQ. Don’t insult us.
Baud
@sharl:
I guess they formed a bond as governors. Since Montana is a rural state and Schweitzer is also a bit of a populist, I could have seen him supporting Bernie.
Gwangung
@Mnemosyne (tablet): TT is acting like a creationist here. Amusing in small doses only.
Baud
If you click my link above, you’ll see that the top contributer to Hillary this time around is Morgan & Morgan. According to Google, they are “the largest consumer protection and personal injury firm in the Southeast.”
Thoughtful Today
@satby:
I remember after 1993, when Clinton pushed through NAFTA, American factories starting closing down and moving to Mexico.
American workers lost jobs. Factory owners increased profits.
Clinton has been pushing those “increased profits” for decades, conveniently omitting the lost jobs.
Hillary is going to be different on trade and labor issues, how? Has she repudiated the trade policies of her husband? NAFTA? China trade policies? Is she supporting a living wage (which is at minimum 15$ an hour)?
Amir Khalid
@sharl:
O’Malley’s latest RCP average, as of October 29, is 0.8% — dead last. (For some reason, RCP has yet to remove Biden’s, Chafee’s, or Webb’s numbers.) Schweitzer seems rather hopeful about O’Malley’s chances.
dogwood
@Thoughtful Today
I’ll admit that I don’t know the details of Clinton’s financial regulation policy, but I did catch her on Colbert where they discussed it. She says she has a proposal to strengthen the existing regulatory regime. I believe you when you say you haven’t heard her proposals. I doubt you are following her every move and utterance on the campaign trail. However, it is disingenuous to claim that she has no proposals because you aren’t aware of any.
NonyNony
@Gwangung: TT is just a troll messing with people. He’s trying to create arguments between Sanders supporters and Clinton supporters. He does not want to honestly engage with anyone and calls anyone who calls him out on his bullshit a troll.
I would not be surprised at all to find out that he’s R2R trying out a new schtick.
Thoughtful Today
@satby:
Nope.
As much as I detested it, I voted for Joe Lieberman for Vice President in 2000.
Joe and Hillary were very ideologically aligned.
That should tell you what the state of the Democratic Party is, ideologically speaking.
Thor Heyerdahl
Gawd, us Canadians were tired of an election campaign after 78 days. Sorry that you USAians have to deal with another year of this bullshit.
Omnes Omnibus
@dogwood: From Clinton’s campaign site.
BobS
@Thoughtful Today: You need to learn how to behave here, TT. You can’t point out the blemishes of the preferred Democratic candidate — like for instance Clinton’s role (“we came, we saw, he died”) in creating the Mediterranean paradise in Libya.
Thor Heyerdahl
@Thoughtful Today:
So you didn’t have the conviction to decide to vote for Nader even though you couldn’t vote for Gore? And now you’re flinging your purity poo at everyone as an absolution for your prior political nihilism?
That should tell you what the state of Truthful Today is, ideologically speaking.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@dogwood: For some reason I seem to be in the car when the godawful neocon Andrea Mitchell is on MSNBC, where I check in for headlines. I heard her reaction to Clinton’s appearance on Colbert as clear evidence of her being pulled left by Sanders, announcing she’s going to let the big banks fail “Fail! Fail! Fail”. She expressed it with far more emphasis than I remember Clinton using, but what really struck me was, haven’t VSPs like Mitchell been telling us for years that the Tea Baggers aren’t racist Obama haters, they’re doughty, salt-of-the-earth heartlanders who came together as a reaction to the bailouts and The Deficit, because they have to pay their bills and live within their means and can’t understand why Wall St and Washington can’t do the same! Now saying the banks should fail if they overextend is “the left”
Thor Heyerdahl
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Andrea Mitchell can’t stand the fact that her husband’s economic stewardship was blown up and shown as a scam multiple times…
Thoughtful Today
@BobS:
Erm …
Messopatamia is entirely Bush’s fault.* His decisions destabilized the entire region.
As much as I might criticize Hillary, her Republican, uhm, ‘enemies’, are completely out of line with their attacks. Though, ironically, their attacks did highlight her poise and knowledge of the issues.
But your comment brings me back to Iran, I don’t see them as an “enemy” and worry that those that do might get us into another stupid pointless war.
* Hillary did vote to enable Bush’s disastrous invasion of Iraq, though technically she could claim she just fell for Bush’s lies…. Not everyone did, though….
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Thor Heyerdahl: I’m sure she has only the best motives in her desire to send other people’s children to die in Syria, but day-yum does she want to send other people’s children to die in Syria.
And she was simply awful on the Iran deal, constantly hectoring supporters with the “veterans of Republican AND Democratic administrations warning us…!” Like Dick Lugar and Colin Powell.
Thoughtful Today
@Thor Heyerdahl:
lol, could someone explain to our Canadian friend how one elects Vice Presidents in the US?-)
BobS
@Thoughtful Today: Uhm, Bush bears no responsibility for the Libya debacle. That rests on Obama and the stooges – Clinton, Rice, and Powers. R2P, baby!
FlipYrWhig
I like postal banking and I sort of think that USPS should be a low cost ISP too — dead tree mail services and Internet services combined. It’s a good idea Democrats should get behind. I think DC statehood is a good idea Demcrats should get behind. Let’s roll!
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@BobS:
Really, Bush bears no responsibility for disrupting the Middle East? The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan had nothing to do with the instability in Libya and it all would have happened the same way regardless of what the US’s actions from 2001 to 2008 were?
Thor Heyerdahl
@Thoughtful Today: Take off eh! I know damn well how people pick vice presidents in the US – as part of a Happy Meal with the associated president. The fact you apparently decided to vote based on the VP candidate and not the president candidate says a lot.
I could have said that presidents are elected after the American public first deals with supertankers full of media and political sewage and picks the candidate that still smells a little bit better than the other one.
Thor Heyerdahl
@Mnemosyne (tablet): Forget it, he’s rolling. Like when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.
FlipYrWhig
@Thoughtful Today: When someone says “the Iranians” they _probably_ mean the Iranian _government_, not every single Iranian. Compare “the Russians.” This isn’t that hard, dude.
Thor Heyerdahl
@FlipYrWhig: Or “Americans” when the world looks at the latest story of a “hold my beer and watch this” 27% idiot doing something
dogwood
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
If I remember correctly she said that too big to fail was too big to manage, and they should be broken up. She also said investors need to understand this up front. However, given the likely makeup of the next congress, I don’t expect to see much progress on any issue that democrats care about. we need to protect healthcare reform and the courts. By 2020, repealing Obamacare will be politically toxic even with a republican president.
Another Holocene Human
@sharl: The crucial Gary Hart endorsement.
Thoughtful Today
@BobS:
lol
Thank you for reminding me that for all the frustrations I might have with Hillary, Bill, and/or Obama, they are still leaps and bounds better than any Republican in the country.
Anoniminous
@Another Holocene Human:
HEY! Tens of people will care!
Another Holocene Human
@Baud: they do labor law, personal injury, worker’s comp, medical malpractice
they’re so big because the state does nothing to protect the little guy in Florida–hell, sometimes the state is part of the problem
what sucks is that sometimes the awards you can get are capped and the lawyers take a big chunk of it
in the first world, eg Massachusetts, you can call the AG’s office for help, for a fee called “the taxes you were going to pay anyway”. And there’s less shit because some would be criminals are (with reason) worried about the actual live human being regulators and inspectors lurking around
Another Holocene Human
Florida is the only state with no “last paycheck” regulation that states how/when your last paycheck will be given to you when you terminate employment. Many employees in Florida are forced to sue for their last paycheck. The situation is absurd.
Cervantes
@schrodinger’s cat:
Postal deposits had dwindled from more than $3B in the late ’40s down to less than $0.5B in the mid-’60s. The Depression and the War had come and gone. Demand, from immigrants and others, had faded.
@Tripod:
The FDIC opened for business in 1933.
Another Holocene Human
@Anoniminous: About the number who actually remember that Monkey Business was a boat.
BobS
@Mnemosyne (tablet): Please link to where I wrote that “Bush bears no responsibility for disrupting the Middle East”. I’ll wait…
On the other hand, Bush bears no responsibility for the NATO war on Libya (located in north Africa — did you share a geography class with Sarah Palin?), which commenced over two years after Obama assumed the presidency.
Baud
@Another Holocene Human:
Thanks.
@Another Holocene Human:
Wow.
Another Holocene Human
@Cervantes: Yabut, little old ladies and grumpy old men set their banking habits decades earlier, so there was probably a generational issue there. People who grew up with FDIC trusted it.
Before FDIC, many working class people shunned banks, some even keeping cash in the proverbial mattress. Babe Ruth was said to have refused to bank, even when he was making good money.
BobS
@Thoughtful Today: Can you set that bar any lower?
Another Holocene Human
@Baud: Florida labor law is a joke. It’s about the same, possibly worse, than Texas.*
JEB! abolished the state labor department, so nobody is there to even enforce what is against the law, like wage theft. (Some counties passed wage theft ordnances but The Lege saved the day by making it illegal for any other counties to follow suit. The other option is the federal Labor Dept but they have a massive backlog.)
And Florida has had multiple federal prosecutions of slavery since the mid 1990s (agricultural).
*-eta: I should clarify I mean the basic wage and hours laws for everybody. due to a crazy confluence of events Florida allowed public sector unions under RTW in the 70s, which is indeed better than Texas. You can forget about having any rights if you’re not unionized, though.
Thoughtful Today
@FlipYrWhig:
And when she claimed “Republicans” were her enemy?
Do you think every Republican in the country made the same distinction you’re now doing?
Until that moment I assumed that Hillary recognized that there were a lot of Republican women who would look at her remarkably conservative life/record and vote for her in the General Election.
But when she called them, “enemies”, it felt like she’d slapped my Republican relatives in the face and explicitly told them not to vote for her.
Perhaps Republicans are better at nuance than I thought.
catclub
Carson and Trump: Separated at Birth?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Good Christ, that’s funny
Which they were totally gonna? So now your anti-HRC argument is that she’s too tough on Repubilcans?
Askew, Askew, is that you?
a different chris
Why’s it only the pro-Bernie hacks that get called out and shouted down? Even in just this thread, there are a few equally strident ‘Bernie is an unelectable moron’ comments that are totally ignored. Weird.
Cervantes
@Another Holocene Human:
Sorry, not catching your drift. The FDIC was a grand innovation in ’33, no doubt, but how does your comment address the question of why the postal savings system was shuttered in ’66 and ’67?
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
She’s already lost the Iranian government’s vote. How many more votes can she afford to lose?
Baud
@catclub:
Together in Grift.
Omnes Omnibus
@Cervantes: The FDIC being partially responsible for the decrease in demand for postal savings program.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@BobS:
So the instability and Islamist movements in North Africa that led to civil war in Libya were completely unrelated to the ongoing wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? Just a total co-inkydink?
FlipYrWhig
@Thoughtful Today: I DO think “the Republicans” is similar to “the Iranians,” in that both refer to the leadership of the organization rather than to everyone in it. And you know this too, you’re just trying to take the piss.
sharl
@Amir Khalid: I think it’s a no-penalty endorsement for Schweitzer, unless maybe he plans to run for national office in the future; this is perhaps a small indication that he has no such plans.
Thoughtful Today
>
Bush’s destabilization of Iraq, which extensively borders Syria, was a significant factor in the destabilization of Syria.
Yup.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@BobS:
Also, too, since I have to go run some errands, I’ll leave you with this thought: Obama has the same amount of responsibility for Libya as Tony Blair does for Afghanistan. Contrary to what many people seem to believe, the US is not the only country in the world that meddles.
Thoughtful Today
@FlipYrWhig:
It sounded worse than impolitic, it sounded recklessly militant.
But, sure, perhaps I misjudge both Republicans and Iranians ability to recognize the nuances you hear.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Speaking of endorsements, I was surprised how much negative commentary about Kasich there was in the ‘tubes from conservatives after the debate the other night, so I looked at his website. His most notable endorsements, unless you’re steeped in various state legislatures and county party chairs, are from Dick Armey, Trent Lott and Tom Davis, whose name I recognized only because Tweety loves to have him on and at some point not long ago (unless it was during the 2012 campaign and a combination of my political obsession and aging makes it seem like last month) he made a reference to the “lower classes” or “underclass” and was genuinely nonplussed that people were offended, and made a classic “I’m sorry if you’re so sensitive you took offense” non-apology. Also Gordon Humphrey, who left the Senate (NH) in 1990. I don’t think there were any current national office holders.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
only an endorsement from Kristol could be worse news
though I repeat, I’m not making any predictions about their side this time around. I wouldn’t bet against Jeb dropping out next week, or pulling out the nomination.
Cervantes
@Thoughtful Today:
You could not pay Obama enough to make that mistake.
Cervantes
@Omnes Omnibus:
Possibly a second-order effect. Postal deposits kept rising for fifteen years or more after the FDIC opened up.
Another Holocene Human
@Cervantes: I’m saying it’s time-delayed. Time-delayed !== second order.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Another Holocene Human: A banking crisis is a lack of confidence in the institution of banking, it takes a long time to recover.
Karen
@Thor Heyerdahl:
“And now you’re flinging your purity poo at everyone as an absolution for your prior political nihilism?”
Are you saying he’s planning to Nader 2016 or you are?
Karen
@Cervantes:
“You could not pay Obama enough to make that mistake.”
And a lot of Democrats hated him because of that.
BobS
@Mnemosyne (tablet): So a civil war anywhere is a cue for a US and/or NATO airwar/escalation? And Libya is more stable now than it was before March 2011, two years after Bush exited the White House?
Good on you for at least locating Libya on the right continent.@Mnemosyne (tablet): And what a profound thought that is.
Cervantes
@Karen:
More fool they.
Brachiator
It’s not that these people are too poor to have a bank account. It is that banks have decided that they are not worth having as customers, and bankers have paid off Congress to prevent regulations that might force banks to do so.
I was happy to see a couple of tech related sites report on this story a couple of weeks ago, and note how it was not much commented on in the traditional media.
Sanders idea of a postal bank is interesting, but it may not be sustainable if it is pitched only to “poor people,” and the financial products industry will do everything it can to kill a broader postal bank idea that tries to market itself to all consumers.
And although Russell Simmons has caught some heat, I give him credit for trying to serve a market that other institutions have decided is not worth squat.
Cervantes
@Another Holocene Human:
Yes, thanks, but I meant what I said.
A big reason for the decline in postal deposits after the war, I think (and hinted above), was the decline in number of immigrants who, in the old country, were quite used to saving money at the post office.
Thor Heyerdahl
@Karen: Bernie won’t Nader the process, however I can’t be so sure of the Berniacs.
rikyrah
This is outrageous.
Karen
@Thor Heyerdahl:
That’s what terrifies me. Just like they didn’t vote in 2010 and 2014 out of spite and how they couldn’t care less about the people who will get hurt, what do they care?
Juju
@Thor Heyerdahl: or she’s just tired off changing his adult diapers.