Another horrifying act of institutional violence against a black child, this time in South Carolina
In addition to being a sociopath with a past that includes other acts of brutality and a lawsuit, he’s also a power lifter and strength coach for the football team and all the students are absolutely terrified of him.
He shouldn’t be allowed around people, let alone the public. I hope they test him for roids.
‘Murrica!
Gimlet
Shitty Cops
3 hours ago
CHICAGO — FBI Director James Comey told a gathering of police chiefs Monday that he believes officers are changing their behavior because they fear being caught in viral videos, and that the rise of crime in some cities may be a result of police officers staying in their vehicles more often due to an overabundance of caution. He described the law enforcement community and the black community as diverging further and further apart with each new controversy.
Comey said officers in one major city felt “under siege” because they were being recorded when they exited their vehicles. “They were honest and said they don’t feel much like getting out of their cars,” Comey said.
“Of the explanations I have heard, it is the one that makes the most sense to me: Maybe something has changed in policing,” he went on. “In today’s YouTube world, are officers reluctant to get out of their cars and do the work that prevents violent crime?
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
I’ve been trying to figure out if the school is trying to mount any kind of a defense for this, but so far they seem to be keeping their mouths shut.
And, seriously, refusing to leave class is now an arrestable offense? WTFF?
Keith G
Horrible stuff. Read a description earlier. Won’t watch it since it is close to bedtime and I won’t sleep well if I get upset.
Omnes Omnibus
No fucking excuse for this.
Gin & Tonic
Post a damn URL, FFS.
Gin & Tonic
That was to Gimlet. FYWP.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
That’s where my mind went
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
Also, too, good for the fellow student in the class who took this video. The teacher is just standing by like it’s totally normal for an adult man to body-slam a teenage girl.
Gimlet
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
http://www.wltx.com/story/news/local/2015/10/26/spring-valley-high-school-incident/74645568/
Richland School District Two. Superintendent Dr. Libby Roof said that the district was “deeply concerned” about the incident, and will not tolerate any actions that jeopardize the safety of students.
Roof also said that pending the results of an investigation with the sheriff’s department, the district has directed that the officer not return to any school in the district.
Corner Stone
@Gimlet: Fuck James Comey. Fuck him up his stupid ass.
Wag
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
Or scared shitless that he’d be next
schrodinger's cat
When did cops in school become a thing? How common is this?
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Gimlet:
As far as I can tell, there’s no statement from the school’s principal, only the school district. That’s what I find interesting.
Mike J
@schrodinger’s cat: Early 80s, my HS had one.
Wag
The girl wasn’t just sitting there! For God’s sake, she was defying his AUTHORITY! What else was he supposed to do? call in the school counselor to try and defuse the situation that he unnecessarily escalated? HELL NO. He’s an ‘Merican Cop and MUST be obeyed!
snark
Keith G
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
It used to be in many districts – under an umbrella charge of disturbance or malicious conduct. I say used to as districts are now beginning to back off many of the zero tolerance policies begun in the mid 1990s.
The district that I worked for would use such a policy by issuing a misdemeanor citation if a student seems dedicated to being disruptive to the business of a class.
That said, it was expected that the professional(s) in the classroom would not escalate a disagreement to a petty disturbance, or a petty disturbance to a major disruption. Knowing how to talk a kid down was stressed as well. This was in Texas. That local in SC must be operating under a different philosophy.
Gimlet
@Wag:
How else ya gonna get them to respect authority?
Steeplejack (phone)
@Gimlet:
This is where a link would be useful, because I believe we discussed this a couple of days ago. Or is this a new thing from “3 hours ago”?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Mike J: class of ’85, leafy suburb, I’m pretty sure we had one. Part of the “War on Drugs”?
Gimlet
@Steeplejack (phone):
3 hours ago. Comey is doubling down on his earlier comments.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/james-comey-black-lives-matter_562e4745e4b0443bb5648e44
leeleeFL
@Gimlet: Roof? in South Carolina? Related to Dylan at all? And I can’t play the video…I assume it’s awful. I do not know what the hell to say or think anymore. If I was Black, I would be terrified and furious..hell I’m terrified and furious, and I’m so white, I’m transparent.
El Caganer
@Gimlet: It’s the new LEO motto: “We are all Kim Davis now!”
Mike G
Southern culture — intimidation, fear and easy reversion to violence.
Superintendent Dr. Libby Roof said that the district was “deeply concerned” about the incident, and will not tolerate any actions that jeopardize the safety of students.
Translation: “I will investigate who videotaped this, and they will be severely punished.”
Keith G
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
Lawyering up is not uncommon. Say very little until they know how bad it is. Even if the principal wants to say, “My that was a disturbing episode” the lawyers may be telling the Superintendent to zip the place up until they have a statement for the official spokesperson to read.
Again…I saw this behavior in action.
jl
No context in the clip in the story, and I think odd the clip started so soon before the assault (and no matter what lead up to it, it looks like an outrageous assault).
Maybe the person who took the video sensed this officer’s ‘apeshit’ was revving up out of nowhere (story said everyone was terrified of him) , so started filming on impulse to catch what happens next after this guy goes crazy (has it happened before?, looks like it has)
Will be interesting to see what the police come up with in an attempt to justify it.
different-church-lady
@Gimlet: I’m kinda lost as to why the only choices seem to be stay in the car, or get out of the car and go on a rampage.
schrodinger's cat
@Mike J: I went to a Catholic school until grade 10, the nuns could be scary enough, if they so desired.
Omnes Omnibus
@different-church-lady: Isn’t it obvious?
Gimlet
@Mike G:
In the future they will ban cell phones from classrooms as “disruptive”.
Mike J
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Working class, very racially divided school in a very racially divided city in the south. Years later I met somebody from there who asked which school I went to and they said, “and you survived?” But it never seemed bad to me. I was always gone by about 11am anyway.
Woodrow/asim
@jl:
Look at the dude in the front row, in the red hoodie — look at so many of them.
Keeping quiet, some looking away, some looking down. No one making a move, or even looking vaguely surprised.
This is something they have seen a lot, and know exactly how to react to — to not react, and not give the “officer” an excuse to do it to them, too.
Pogonip
@Gimlet: I was just going to say that!
different-church-lady
@Omnes Omnibus: Not in a non-ironic world, no.
Corner Stone
@Gimlet:
There’s no reason for a cell phone to be active in a classroom.
different-church-lady
@Corner Stone: Unless, of course, you’re documenting police brutality.
Corner Stone
@different-church-lady:
I think maybe we take a shot at the predicate, here.
Gimlet
Think the violence in American society is increasing (apart from the mass shootings) or has it been there all along, just undocumented?
different-church-lady
@Corner Stone: Fine, I’ll get my bow and arrow.
Omnes Omnibus
@Gimlet: Crime stats seem to indicate that violence in American society has been decreasing.
Gimlet
@Omnes Omnibus:
Maybe it’s in the classification and definition.
Omnes Omnibus
@different-church-lady: You should also get your spear and your chariot of fire.
Citizen_X
@Gimlet:
Clears throat. IF YOU HAVEN’T DONE ANYTHING WRONG, YOU HAVE NOTHING TO FEAR. That’s how that goes, right?
raven
@Gimlet: “Violence is as American as cherry pie” H Rap Brown
different-church-lady
@Omnes Omnibus: Darn, is this a opera? I’m just coming off a cold and my throat’s a bit raw…
Omnes Omnibus
@different-church-lady: A Blake poem. Honey and lemon should help with the cold.
Debbie
I couldn’t bring myself to watch the clip, but I read the article. Even if she mouthed off, the overreaction is appalling. In fact, I’d bet the cop was just as mouthy at that age.
raven
@Woodrow/asim: Just what kind of “move” do you think they should have made?
Baud
@different-church-lady:
Flight of the Different-Church-Ladies.
Omnes Omnibus
@Debbie:
There is literally (non-Biden) no excuse for what is in that video.
Gimlet
@Woodrow/asim:
I’d guess they thought she was due something for her behavior. I doubt they expected that but were not shocked by it.
trollhattan
@Omnes Omnibus:
No fair, I was promised a chariot of fire!
Omnes Omnibus
@Gimlet: No, they’ve seen that kind of violence before and were keeping their heads down to avoid becoming the next target.
different-church-lady
@trollhattan: If you can hit the high C, you can have it.
Omnes Omnibus
@trollhattan: Don’t set fire to your Saab.
raven
@Omnes Omnibus: We don’t really know now do we?
Omnes Omnibus
@raven: I’ve seen those types of reactions before.
Debbie
@Omnes Omnibus:
I know when my dad started yelling at one of my brothers, the rest of us froze in watchful silence.
lamh36
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): the student who took video was arrested by Field
raven
@Omnes Omnibus: So have I. Sometimes it’s what you said and sometimes it’s not. It depends on what went down.
Baud
@Omnes Omnibus:
What did you do?
Another Holocene Human
In other horrific ethnic conflict news, indigenous migrant farmworkers are last hired, first fired and suffering un and underemployment with no safety net during California’s DROUGHT.
http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2015/10/24/drought-survey-jobs-drying-up-for-indigenous-farmworkers
eta: clarification: indigenous people of Mexican nationality
jl
@raven: You are correct we don’t know. But one thing the report did say was that all the students are terrified of him, and I think the other students’ behavior is suggestive.
it will be interesting to get the context and what happened to prompt the assault. Hope there is an update.when more is known.
Another Holocene Human
@lamh36: because of course he did
raven
@jl: won’t it
sharl
@schrodinger’s cat: We had “Nick the Narc” in my Ohio Rust Belt small/medium city high school. I think he showed up in my late sophomore or early junior year (1972/1973, too long ago to remember for certain).
It never was clear to me if he was an actual policeman, or school security staff, or something else. I never interacted with him, but he seemed good-natured overall; other kids would razz him a bit, he’d just exchange trash talk with them or roll his eyes. I could imagine him calling uniformed cops in if something got out of hand, but could never imagine him going all psycho roid-ragey himself.
It could be relevant that it was a majority white student body (not from wealth, mostly blue-collar families). We never heard if it was different in the majority AA-student high schools on “the West Side” of town.
lamh36
There was a kid who was in the class at the time who was talking to Gawker and tweeting about the incident. I don’t know if he still is, but I suspect his own parents will have told him to shut up…for fear of retribution?
The kid said that the kids had no idea what she did. And they were all afraid they would say something to the other kids because the cop put another girl in handcuffs for standing up
https://twitter.com/abradacabla/status/658779183234043905/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Debbie
@jl:
Isn’t he one of the Resource Officers who are supposed to be so good with kids?
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@raven: No, but that would be my guess based on my experience. As Omnes noted, it’s a response suggestive of the pattern of “seen it in action; need to keep my head down and stay the fuck out of it so I’m not next.”
@raven: And you are correct – it’s not definitive and we don’t know what preceded the response.
Another Holocene Human
@Omnes Omnibus: except in Chicago, where murders went up. Apparently Homan Sq, Chicago PD’s extraordinary rendition facility, actually increases crime.
Gimlet
@Debbie:
Officer Friendly?
Omnes Omnibus
@Another Holocene Human: Okay, and?
Pogonip
This is outrageous.
OK, fellow Americans. Most of us are stuck here. What can we do about it? Some religious groups are considering the “Benedict option,” named after St. Benedict. He lived in times as barbarous as ours and finally retreated from society to form his own little civilization. I don’t think that’ll work these days. St. Benedict didn’t live in a police state, he didn’t have to contend with drones and credit reports and paychecks on debit cards. We can’t withdraw. What else can we do to make our surroundings more livable?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
From NY Mag:
I think the student he threatens to put in jail is the girl who says “What the fuck?”
Another Holocene Human
@sharl: at my first, whitey mcwhiterson high school, we had kids bring live grenades to school and ignite elemental Magnesium in the courtyard, not to mention smoke weed daily after school… and those were just my friends
Gravenstone
@raven: Quietly walking away from a ‘roid raging asshole wouldn’t seem out of place. Except I’m sure the school would view that as being “disruptive” and punish accordingly.
raven
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Looks like an African America teacher. Be interesting to hear what he has to say.
Omnes Omnibus
@Pogonip: You really cannot compare the period around the collapse of Rome with the modern US.
Gimlet
Remember when LA Chief Gates had no proof but thought there was a genetic difference in AA that made them vulnerable when a choke-hold was applied.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/26/fbi-director-ferguson-effect-crime-policing-james-comey
FBI director James Comey conceded on Monday that he had little evidence to support his theory that a recent increase in crime was caused by heightened scrutiny of the police, as the White House appeared to distance itself from his remarks.
Addressing police chiefs at a conference in Chicago, Comey said he could not be certain that the so-called “Ferguson effect”, following unrest in the Missouri city after the fatal police shooting of an unarmed black 18-year-old last year, had led to a retreat by officers, but said this was “common sense”.
raven
@Gravenstone: Beats the shit out of me. Everything that’s been said about the security dude is true. Why the other kids acted the way they did is still unknown.
Corner Stone
@Gimlet: Hmmm…James Comey…hmmm…who appointed him to head FBI?
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@Keith G:
I can see that it might be necessary to arrest and/or restrain someone in an extreme situation where a student has gotten out of control. But I would think that would be something that could be covered by existing “disturbing the peace” kind of laws and not be something that would require a specific statute. Civil disobedience of sitting at your desk and refusing to get up wouldn’t seem to be the kind of thing that would require getting physical with the student.
I admit, I haven’t been in high school for a long time, but I’m having trouble picturing how this conflict got to the point where both the teacher and the administrator couldn’t handle it and the cop had to be called to haul the student out of the room.
sharl
@Another Holocene Human: Well that’s
just clean, youthful fun that also happened in my neighborh…TERRORISTS IN TRAINING, that’s what that is! Or, maybe not at Whitey McWhiterson H.S.Lighting Mg strips is cool; the grenades, not so much.
Gimlet
@Corner Stone:
Think he’s got the original “Whitey” tape?
Gimlet
@Corner Stone:
Think he’s got the original “Whitey” tape hidden away?
Another Holocene Human
@Pogonip: Benedict’s time was several times more barbarous than ours AND his utterly extreme asceticism was genuinely impressive to his peers and to the ruling class to the point where they left him alone or even gave him money to get his monastery started. (He wasn’t trying to start a movement but a bunch of men showed up wanting him to be their guru, so things snowballed.)
Christian monarchs were hip deep in blood at that time and thought that the prayers of a very holy person would be a get out of Hell free card for them. (Being big sinners, they believed that God was disinclined to give their prayers the time of day.) This is the critical reason for the monks’ status in that society.
Nobody believes that now. They think Republican Jeebus will forgive them all and future as well if they just say some magic words, because Jeebus is a low order demon who is easily bound. Monks are just some weirdos who couldn’t get along in society and probably losers who failed at their careers too.
And medieval monks weren’t really insulated from wars and political ructions. Look up the wiki page on just about any monastery and guaranteed it was destroyed by Vikings, Saracens, peasant revolt, or an avaricious king at one point or another.
Debbie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Then where the hell are the teachers and principal?
jl
@Debbie:
” Isn’t he one of the Resource Officers who are supposed to be so good with kids? ”
He does not excel at that part of the job.
Another Holocene Human
@sharl: Dumbass showed it to a teacher who thankfully was cool headed, told him what was supposed to happen, then said “I NEVER saw that and I never want to see that again!”
dogwood
I can’t speak from anything but personal experience, but cops in school should never be involved in rudimentary classroom discipline . What I found throughout my 35 year career wasn’t that student behavior deteriorated but that increasinly teachers seemed to feel that it was the job of councillors and administrators to solve their classroom discipline problems. As I said in the last thread, if I asked that girl to leave and she refused, I’d simply take the rest of the students out in the hall and finnish the lesson. If she wants to be defiant, she can do it without an audience.
Another Holocene Human
@Omnes Omnibus: Because Rahm needs to be called out for causing murders to go up during a secular decrease.
Omnes Omnibus
@Another Holocene Human: Rahm is personally causing the Chicago murder rate to increase?
Another Holocene Human
@dogwood: I don’t think today’s administrators want the teachers to take care of things any more. If a teacher attempts to take care of things themself, they’re liable to get disciplined. I feel like that’s a trend in a lot of front line jobs. They take away all authority from the front line employee because the customer (parent) is always right. But it does result in cops “solving” problems instead.
Another Holocene Human
@Omnes Omnibus: I feel like decisions he has made as well as stuff that happened in CPD under his watch (that he clearly doesn’t give a shit about) have contributed to the murder rate, yes.
I think the failure early in his term to have enough fucking detectives to actually try to solve the fucking murders was a big problem. Anecdotally, some journalists interviewed South Side residents who asserted that the same people were committing serial murders because CPD never nailed them for the first one.
But I also think that massive human rights abuses like Homan Sq have to play a role. You think of other corrupt, authoritarian regimes and their murder rate goes up as well. If you turn the people and police into enemies, you turn the streets into a criminal’s playground.
I’m not a criminologist, that’s JM2C.
Another Holocene Human
@Gimlet: Voted Most Likely To Sound Like Patrick Lynch At A Presser
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@Omnes Omnibus:
I can’t find a damn link for it, but I swear that when I was listening to NPR the other day (probably Morning Edition) they had a Chicago police official on who said that the problem in Chicago is illegal guns. He said that they can arrest people for drug possession, but they can only cite them for having an illegal gun. I really wish I could find the link, because it’s one of the few times I’ve heard a current police official say that the problem isn’t drugs, it’s guns.
He seemed to be at least somewhat in favor of decriminalizing drugs, especially if it meant getting more serious about arresting people with illegal guns.
Zinsky
I hope the girls parents sue this monster into bankruptcy. Any bets on which political party this Neanderthal votes for??
Another Holocene Human
@Gimlet:
Maybe it’s just police violence. It was always there (and always racial), but retired cops from the 70s and 80s keep saying it’s so much worse and today’s cops are so much more fearful than they were even though their job back then was more dangerous
circa 1990 rise of the SWAT
bad trend
Some police violence activists have been documenting how completely fucked up police training is and how it conditions them to be violent. We’re literally hiring for and then training cops to be “warriors, not guardians” (to paraphrase my local chief of police (he’s frustrated).
Another Holocene Human
@efgoldman: That wasn’t true in Benedict’s time. Although the Frankish kings were often illiterate.
You might be thinking more of the monks who converted Ireland and Scandinavia, places where the written word was a powerful new technology.
scav
Oh Comey, Heavens! Forfend! the mere public have anything to contribute or say about the performance of Police Officers! The Gallant Police must be supported by all possible means including commending their tantrums over being held in any ways accountable for any action they take. Taking their bat and ball and sulking in a corner until they get the adoration and abject compliance that is their automatic right when they strap on the badge is a given and in no ways something to raise a tut over.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Mnemosyne (tablet): It was on Morning Edition – McCarthy on drugs and Chicago’s gun problem:
Chicago used to have very strict gun laws. They were rolled back by the courts.
USNews:
If only they had mandatory concealed carry, then Chicago would be like Mayberry, amirite?
:-/
Cheers,
Scott.
rikyrah
“Deputy Ben Fields: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know”
http://heavy.com/news/2015/10/ben-fields-richland-county-south-carolina-sheriff-deputy-spring-valley-high-school-photo-football-coach-bodybuilder-cop-student-desk-video-complaints/
rikyrah
Jamelle Booo-eeee! ✔ @jbouie
The same officer who grabbed the student out of her desk also assaulted an army veteran ten years prior. http://m.nydailynews.com/army-vet-recalls-rough-encounter-sc-dep-ben-fields-article-1.2412418?utm_content=buffer23391&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=NYDailyNewsTw …
9:48 PM – 26 Oct 2015
Suzanne
@schrodinger’s cat: I had cops in my junior high and high school, and now my Spawn does, too. They’re SROs. And all of ours were/are great.
However, this thug is horrifying and should see the inside of a jail cell. For a long time.
rikyrah
Marc Lamont Hill
1 hr ·
Dylan Roof murdered 9 people in a church. The police not only didn’t hurt him, they bought him Burger King. Yet somehow, y’all are trying to convince me that this little Black girl deserved to be choked, slammed, and dragged? Nah… I’m not even entertaining that Bullshit….
RSA
For those curious, here are the “Minimum Standards of Student Conduct and Disciplinary Enforcement Procedures to be Implemented by Local School Districts” in South Carolina [PDF].
I didn’t see anything directly relevant, aside from classifications of student misconduct (I’m guessing “disorderly conduct” at worst). The only thing that surprised me, which it shouldn’t have, is that corporal punishment is legal in SC public schools. What a backward culture we have in many ways.
KS in MA
@Pogonip:
Hmm… Unlike Benedict, we live in a democracy. That makes all the difference in the world. There is a precedent within living memory for many of us here at BJ: the civil rights movement, where ordinary citizens braved beatings and killings in order to make change. (They had lots of company throughout American history.) We do NOT need to retreat; we need to organize and fight like hell. History shows it works. You just have to be willing to stick with it–for as long as it takes.
chopper
@Gimlet:
god at first i thought this was a reply to efgoldman at 13.
redshirt
Classic Neo-Cole tonight.
Dropping the most depressing threads possible late night, to increase user interaction.
Suzanne
@efgoldman: The thing I always note about that phrase is that it assumes that the scenario would be unpleasant.
Omnes Omnibus
@redshirt: Send him a detailed email outlining your complaints. Cole loves that.
Omnes Omnibus
@Suzanne: The assumption of unpleasantness, i think, implies an assumption of involuntariness.
redshirt
@Omnes Omnibus: What’s the point? I’m not sure Cole is actually literate.
Suzanne
@Omnes Omnibus: Then why add the qualifying “in the ass”? Being fucked in any orifice is unpleasant if you don’t consent. It’s just when one is so specific, I wonder.
Omnes Omnibus
@Suzanne: I don’t know. I try not to use rape imagery in my rhetoric.
dogwood
@Omnes Omnibus:
I’m happy that Cole has stopped drinking and seems to be feeling better mentally and physically. I’ve been reading this blog for around 13 years, and for some reason over the last 6 months I’ve been expecting to come here some evening and read that he is signing off. That will be a sad day, but people’s lives, interests and priorities change. Even when he was a silly wingnut, I always knew he was one of the good guys.
PIGL
@Omnes Omnibus: sure can’t. The fall of Rome left done hope for the future.
PIGL
@Omnes Omnibus: sure can’t. The fall of Rome left done hope for the future.
PIGL
@Omnes Omnibus: sure can’t. The fall of Rome left mdone hope for the future.
Omnes Omnibus
@dogwood: Really, I’ve always viewed him as an asshole with some decent impulses and good blog.
Steeplejack (phone)
@efgoldman:
I’m shocked—shocked!—that there is bad language at Balloon Juice!
I think you are overanalyzing his trope, but, hey, keep fucking that chicken. Oops, sorry.
redshirt
I’m on a crusade to inform people that the Roman Empire actually fell in 1453 with the fall of Constantinople, which, since 330CE had been the seat of Roman power.
You were no doubt taught the Roman Empire fell in 400 something CE due to Germans, and then there was a long dark age, broken by the Renaissance.
In reality the Roman Empire continued in the East for another 1000 years. It’s quite remarkable in and of itself, but equally weird that we are not taught this whatsoever. If you’ve even heard, it’s the Byzantine Empire which is referenced, which is the literary invention of Germans from the 1880’s.
The citizens of the so called “Byzantine Empire” called themselves Romans and had a Senate and an Emperor with Roman ass names like Octavious Republicanus Democraticus III
Omnes Omnibus
@redshirt: Good luck with that. People tend to associate Roman with Rome.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Omnes Omnibus: For which I (and I’m sure I’m not alone) thank you.
redshirt
@Omnes Omnibus: Do you accept the idea that the Roman Empire continued unabated to 1453?
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Omnes Omnibus: You were a fan of Coffee Talk with Linda Richman, too, eh?
Cheers,
Scott.
Omnes Omnibus
@redshirt: The empire was divided at one point. One half, based in Rome, collapsed. The other half, based in Constantinople, survived until the Ottomans overwhelmed it in 1453. Was it still Rome? Arguable.
Omnes Omnibus
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: More Voltaire than Richman, but I do like butter.
redshirt
@Omnes Omnibus:
Constantinople was the capital of the Roman Empire from 330CE on. This date is well before the so called “Fall of Rome”. So when you read about Rome being sacked by Goths, remember that the capital had been in C-town for 100 years already.
Omnes Omnibus
@redshirt: Dude, go play drunkenly with mclaren. I gave you an answer.
Steeplejack
@efgoldman:
Well, let me (over)analyze it for you. Up top you said:
Fuck you has been an insult for about a thousand years. If someone cuts you off in traffic and you yell, “Fuck you!,” does that mean you want to have sex with them? Does the fact that valued commenter and resident blog rageaholic Raven yells, “Fuck that guy!” every time L.B.J. is mentioned mean that Raven is obsessed with fucking L.B.J.? No. It’s just an insult. Maybe a lame one. But what I find equally lame is the junior-high-level comeback “Haw-haw! You must want to have sex with that person.”
Maybe you’ve got an issue with Corner Stone in general, or just about that specific thing. Then just give him a direct “Fuck you!” and be done with it. Or FIDO.
ETA: Make that fifth grade instead of junior high.
redshirt
@Omnes Omnibus: Such a lame response. Really lacking.
Omnes Omnibus
@redshirt: I answered your question. If you can’t gather the reason for the rest of my response, you just are all that bright.
Joe Shabadoo
As someone who has been in a classroom I don’t see the big deal. The campus police are brought in because someone needs to get physical. It typically goes like this.
1. Teacher gives warnings about problem.
2. Student ignores warnings or does something serious.
3. Office is called and typically a VP comes to get them
At this point most students just leave, however if they refuse the SRO is called.
4. The SRO shows up knowing why he is there. He asks the student to come with him and if they refuse he forces them to because that is his job and the asking has been going on for ages.
In the video the officer asks her to cone then tries to pull her out of her chair, she won’t get up so the whole chair falls. Then he pulls her out of the chair and essentially does the school version of arresting her. Once he has to get physical this is what should be expected. Kids at my school, which wasn’t in a terrible area, had been caught with weapons and others were gang members.
I don’t see how he could have done less. He had to remove her from the classroom, she wouldn’t let him pull her out of the desk and once the desk has fallen he is going to get control of her.
You see how the whole class just watches? They knew she was getting dragged out of the desk because that is what happens. It is what has to happen if the teacher has the power to kick someone out class and if you think a teacher shouldn’t be able to do that then every class would be completely out of control
redshirt
@Omnes Omnibus: Again, so very lame.
Omnes Omnibus
@Joe Shabadoo: He picked her up and threw her. Step off.
Omnes Omnibus
@redshirt: My dear boy, if you don’t like me, you can choose not to respond to things I say. And if you do, you should take it across threads.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Omnes Omnibus:
:-)
Cheers,
Scott.
Joe Shabadoo
@Omnes Omnibus: He pulls her out of the seat. “Picked her up and threw her” is a gross exaggeration which implies she fell from some height. He tries to grab her and pull her out of the chair, she resists, the chair falls as is guaranteed to happen, he continues holding her, yanks her out of the chair and pins her down.
How else can this possibly go down? The officer is called because she needs to be removed. His job is to physically take her out if she refuses. After she refuses she resists so the chair falls. Is he supposed to say sorry for doing his job and walk away? No, he has to get control of her and remove her from the classroom so he pulls her from the chair. If he is in a school that has had people bring in knives etc. (he probably is which is why he is there to begin with) getting physical is serious business.
Omnes Omnibus
@Joe Shabadoo: I’ll just point to the video. If you care to defend it, okay. I see nothing to defend.
Joe Shabadoo
@dogwood:
You have had nothing but great classes then. A lot of teachers would be having class in the hall everyday with 30 kids then have to move the class to another hall when the next one acts up then run into the next teacher who took their classroom out into the hall because they had someone act up. I have never seen SROs take the place of regular discipline but only be called in as a last resort when the student either did something dangerous or simply refused to leave the classroom with the usual disciplinary instructor and it was either let the class be controlled by the problem student or have the SRO force them out.
redshirt
@Omnes Omnibus: I’ll let the internet judge who’s in the wrong here, mate.
Omnes Omnibus
@Joe Shabadoo: dogwood offered some bona fides for his/her opinion on this. Can you offer yours?
Omnes Omnibus
@redshirt: Quoi?
Steeplejack
@redshirt:
That rarely ends well.
redshirt
@Steeplejack: The Internet is my friend.
Omnes Omnibus
@redshirt: I don’t mind drunk posting; god knows, I’ve done it. I just ask for a bit of consistency, is all.
redshirt
@Omnes Omnibus: If this is your drunk posting you need to drink more.
Joe Shabadoo
@efgoldman: So what is the officer supposed to do? He is there to remove her. Tell me how he gets her out of the classroom without a video that makes him look bad to everyone here? He can’t pull just pull her out of the desk, he tried.
Steeplejack
@Joe Shabadoo:
Maybe he could have slid her desk out of the room with her in it, making choo-choo noises while he did it.
Joe Shabadoo
@Steeplejack: Then what happens when she literally puts he feet down to stop him much like how she refused to let him pull her up?
What happens when she is out of the classroom and refuses to get out of the desk? He leaves her alone in the hall? He spends all day sitting with her begging her to get up?
Gian
@Omnes Omnibus:
at some level there’s a frame by frame point to be made is the claim. that and cops have jobs that sometimes require the use of violence to get their job done.
I wasn’t there for the whole windup to the use of force on the girl, and I can’t see anything in the video that causes it to look like it was needed at the time.
I don’t know that she was amenable to reasoning, but I don’t see where it was tried. I’ve seen an irate guy in traffic court mellow out when the bailiff had more bailiffs just show up and stand near him, and one started playing with the handcuffs.
At some point in the confrontation it can make sense to use force. I just don’t see that point being reached in the video. It feels like the officer was afraid of loss of face in front of the other kids and just felt compelled to act right then rather than waiting for another officer to arrive and make it clear that she was outnumbered.
at some point class disruptors need to be removed so the other kids can do their world class standardized test prep, I just don’t see that point having been reached.
(if, for example, she threw the desk at another kid or the teacher I can see taking her down and handcuffing her with force.
Steeplejack
@Joe Shabadoo:
He could choo-choo her desk into the janitor’s closet and lock her in there. Bonus points if he yells, “We’re going into the tunnel!”
@efgoldman:
This works too.
Joe Shabadoo
@efgoldman:
I never insinuated such a thing. In fact I stated that the school I was at was in a good area and still had some of the problems. I like how you called me racist instead of actually having any idea how such a problem as this could be solved any other way. You are in what has previously been called safest school in the world. You are called to remove a student from the classroom. The student refuses to leave. What do you do?
Joe Shabadoo
@efgoldman: Probably because you aren’t allowed to leave students unsupervised like that. Its kind of a big deal actually. Moreover you are saying that if a student continues to misbehave in class in ways that are bad enough to be forcibly kicked out the end result is going to be that he or she is essentially given free reign to wander the halls and do what he or she wants.
J R in WV
@rikyrah:
I feel like that cop committed assault and battery with intent to cause severe bodily harm. The girl went over backwards and landed on her head, which often causes a broken neck.
If he had killed the girl at that moment, what would he then have done to the person who recorded him committing murder?
Should be in prison for years! Strength coach – got to be on steroids, gotta be. I worked with a power lifter who was proud to be in a drug-free league. If you won an event you got tested right then, and you got tested randomly all the time even if you didn’t win.
My boss held the national drug free bench press record for his age group, I don’t remember the exact numbers. But the whole point was that in power lifting and body building, steroids were rampant everywhere. They had to work to keep them out even in a “drug free” lifting group.
That cop “strength coach” is dirty, on dope which makes him furious in an instant. Dirty, as in hates black kids, little girls need to be beaten into submission. Evil bastard needs jail, not schools!
Juju
@dogwood: Were you a high school teacher or elementary? I don’t see going out into the hall as being a realistic solution for high schoolers, especially in this day and age. I have had classes with as many as 43 students. Would you have all of the students take their desks out of the classroom? If the hall was an open hall you leave yourself to having students sneaking away and wandering the halls. What if you are using laptops or giving a lecture using a smart board or PowerPoint? There is usually a procedure for removing a disruptive student. If the resource officer was called, my guess is it was a bad situation. The resource officer got carried away with the situation and from what I saw, could have seriously injured the girl, and that is not acceptable, but it appears something had to be done to maintain some sort of order. I think the officer should have given the student the option to leave as asked, or face arrest.
AxelFoley
@Zinsky:
The
GOPNRA?Joe Shabadoo
@Juju: it’s nice to have someone else here who even has an idea what actually happens in these situations.
Considering the video starts immediately before he grabs her I think she was warned more than the one time we see, which is what typically happens in this situation, but of course the video only starts here and lasts fifteen seconds so everyone will believe what they want. The situation didn’t go perfectly but pulling someone resisting out of a chair never will. He tried to get her in a hold and even as the chair fell had a hold of her head so she didn’t whack it. I don’t see anything criminal here or even anything that should be disciplined.
AxelFoley
@Joe Shabadoo: Man, fuck you (and I don’t mean in the good way–h/t to Steeplejack).
Joe Shabadoo
@AxelFoley: so tell us all how you would forcibly remove someone you were called to remove without creating a video like this?
I’m sure you would use your linguistic prowess to talk her into doing what every other authority figure failed to do or would have magically pulled a resisting person out of chair without any struggle or risk of anyone falling down. It’s a shitty situation but this is the outcome.
Plantsmantx
@different-church-lady: He’s trying to justify “broken windows policing”, AKA racial profiling and harassment.
Mack
@Joe Shabadoo: You call your supervisor. He assesses., then determines what is next. A female cop sometimes works, or a cop who is the same skin color. This was assault and battery, and he should be arrested and stand trial.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Joe Shabadoo: So the choices are: 1) do nothing or 2) throw her to floor with violence? Are those really the only choices?
I grew up expecting that people with authority to commit violence were trained that violence was the last resort. They were trained to de-escalate situations.
She was a kid in a classroom. She wasn’t a threat to anyone. The guy could have and should have handled the situation with far less aggression. He has no business being anywhere around teenagers if he cannot control himself any better than that. No business around anyone of any age, actually…
You’re wrong here. It doesn’t matter what happened before the video clip. There was no excuse for what he did to her – none.
Cheers,
Scott.
Paul in KY
@different-church-lady: You are obviously not trained in law enforcement, or you wouldn’t have asked that question!
Paul in KY
@Another Holocene Human: Henry VIII got rid of a lot of monasteries when he broke with Catholicism.
Paul in KY
@Joe Shabadoo: I think he needs to first try reasoning with her: “I need you to get up out of the seat & come with me. If you don’t, I will be forced to physically remove you from that seat. Bottom line, you will be removed from the seat one way or another, so why don’t you just get out of the seat?”
He might have been surprised by compliance. maybe that’s not what he wanted.
Darkrose
@redshirt: But why did Constantinople get the works?
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Darkrose: You can’t go back to Constantinople.
Cheers,
Scott.
Mike Toreno
@efgoldman: I don’t know if they’re changing their behavior because they’re afraid of getting caught in viral videos, but if they are that’s good. And Comey and the police are going to have to learn to live with it, because public resistance against taking videos of police has collapsed due to the horrible police behavior that keeps appearing in videos.
Mike Toreno
@Paul in KY: I would have talked her out of the seat or she would have stayed in the seat. I gather that she was fooling with her phone – if she was quiet, but refused to quit playing with the phone, I would have gotten the teacher to warn her about consequences such as failing grades and notifying parents, and then just left. If I were the teacher, I would have engaged her and kept it up until I got compliance or got her out. Respect and engage her, present the argument – this is a workplace, we’re here to do the work, you are not doing the work, you stay in this room on the condition that you engage in the activity that takes place here, if you don’t want to do it, you have no legitimate argument to make for being allowed to stay, etc. She didn’t leave because nobody really tried to talk her out, they are all hung up on compliance and authority. Those things are just tools. It’s clear to me that the idiot policeman and his apologists see compliance as an end in itself. It isn’t.
Brandon
According to reports I’ve read, the following happened:
– Girl chews gum in class
– Teacher asks girl to stop
– Girl doesn’t stop
– Teacher calls cop to remove girl from class
– Cop thinks the high school classroom is WWE
– Girl is arrested
– Second student is arrested for standing up
– Teacher tells class that student deserved it
Juju
@Darkrose: That’s no ones business but the Turks.
Felanius Kootea
@Joe Shabadoo:
Oh I don’t know – call her parents to come get her?
Put those bench pressing skills to use and lift her and the chair out of the classroom?
Ask her why she was peeking at her cell phone in class and refused to leave – might have found out something useful and gotten her cooperation.
Teenagers live to defy authority. Body slamming and arresting one for peeking at her cell phone in the classroom is tres over the top. By that standard, what would this officer do to a murder suspect? Tear them limb from limb?
EthylEster
@schrodinger’s cat:
NPR report said after Columbine.
David
Justice has been served. The girl who made the video has been arrested for so doing. http://www.rawstory.com/2015/10/sc-student-arrested-for-recording-school-cops-violent-assault-on-classmate-sitting-in-her-desk/
Paul in KY
@Mike Toreno: If the teacher has called for her removal, then she can’t stay (would be disruptive to teacher & get other students to act up).