Jim Webb Is Dropping Out

CNN says Webb will end his bid today:

(CNN) Jim Webb will end his bid for the Democratic presidential nomination at a press conference Tuesday, according to two sources with knowledge of the decision.

The former Virginia senator who launched a longshot presidential bid earlier this year is considering an independent run, according to his campaign. Craig Crawford, Webb’s spokesman, declined to comment on whether the senator was dropping out of the Democratic race, however.

“Jim will have the first word at 1 p.m.,” Crawford said, referring to the senator’s press conference at the National Press Club in Washington.

Maybe Biden will jump in and keep the debate field to a tidy five….






200 replies
  1. 1
    Another Holocene Human says:

    I was going to do a happy dance but he hasn’t quit yet. In fact, he’s feeling a lot better. Way to bury the lede.

  2. 2
    Corner Stone says:

    The former Virginia senator who launched a longshot presidential bid earlier this year is considering an independent run, according to his campaign.

    Go home, Jim Webb. You’re drunk.

  3. 3
    Corner Stone says:

    Maybe Biden will jump in and keep the debate field to a tidy five

    I saw some footage of him at the Mondale thing. He’s looking more Uncle Joe than Onion Joe nowadays.

  4. 4
    justawriter says:

    Oh Jim, we’ll miss you … oh, right, no we won’t.

  5. 5
    Chyron HR says:

    Jim Webb is proud to have killed Jim Webb’s campaign, and he would do it again in a heartbeat.

  6. 6
    BGinCHI says:

    Great. Now we are down to just one candidate who has killed a man.

  7. 7
    MattF says:

    There’s reports that fellow oligarchs are pressing Bloomberg to run, but his answer has always been No, No, No. Smart man. Besides, what party affiliation would he claim? Y’know, besides ‘rich’.

  8. 8
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Corner Stone:
    You heard it here first; this week, Joe will postpone yet again his decision on whether to run for president or not.

  9. 9
    srv says:

    Well dude, you’re not going to get popular support if you don’t show up for your own party’s debates.

  10. 10
    Ohio Mom says:

    If it wasn’t for the debate, I don’t think I would have remembered he was running.

    I looked at the debate line-up and remarked to my husband, “How interesting that out of five of them, two used to be Republicans.” “Three,” he corrected me, “Hillary.” I think there is a moral somewhere in that story.

  11. 11
    Punchy says:

    I’m going to need help to understand why I should care at all about this development.

    Webb couldn’t catch enough interest. He didn’t use enough venom to take down his targets, his silky smooth demeanor didn’t resonate. He killed in Charlotte, but that’s about it.

  12. 12
    MattF says:

    @Ohio Mom: Well, you wouldn’t expect the Socialist from Brooklyn to be an ex-Republican.

  13. 13
    maya says:

    Maybe Zell Miller could fill in for Webb.

  14. 14
    NonyNony says:

    Yesterday CNN was reporting the rumor that Webb was going to run as an independent. No word on that on this new story – just more BS about how the Democrats are giving up on the racists and that makes Jim Webb sad.

    (Democrats haven’t given up on farmers, Jim. They’ve given up on pandering to racists. There’s a difference here, and the farmers in my family who vote Democrat damn well know the difference.)

  15. 15
    srv says:

    Joe seems to have a hard time making up his mind about anything

    Biden says he backed bin Laden raid all along

    The vice president’s claim appears to contradict his previous account of the president’s decision.

    iCarly is already out of fashion:

    Carly Fiorina’s time near the top of the Republican polls may have come to an end, as another national CNN/ORC poll out Tuesday suggests. Just 4 percent of Republican or Republican-leaning voters said they would cast their votes for her in a primary election, down from 15 percent in September.

  16. 16
    Brachiator says:

    We need to have a few more Republicans drop out, and more Trump on Jeb! fighting.

    When is the next Republican debate?

    Maybe Biden will jump in and keep the debate field to a tidy five….

    I can understand why Biden might want to run. To have been a pretty good VP, and to be so close to top spot, has got spur ambition to go for it all. But I kinda hope that he decides not to run.

  17. 17

    I like Joe Biden, but he’s annoying me.

  18. 18
    ruemara says:

    He was “bye, bitch” to me before he ever jumped in.

  19. 19
    AliceBlue says:

    @maya:
    I think Zell is comfortably installed in a padded room somewhere here in Georgia, having spittle-flecked arguments with the voices in his head. He’d make a great Republican candidate though.

  20. 20
    Hal says:

    @MattF:

    There’s reports that fellow oligarchs are pressing Bloomberg to run, but his answer has always been No, No, No. Smart man. Besides, what party affiliation would he claim? Y’know, besides ‘rich’.

    Every presidential election season someone throws Bloomberg’s name into the mix. No one is ever going to vote for the guy.

  21. 21
    raven says:

    @AliceBlue: He’s up in Blue Ridge

  22. 22
    jl says:

    note: apologies if duplicate, due to strange FYWP behavior:

    Is he dropping out totally, or still thinking of some BS independent run? I didn’t see it mentioned in the story, but admit I just skimmed it.

    Anyway, the Mudcat guy is wrong because there is more than one way to go after the red states, and confused pandering to white ‘Scots-Irish’ pride is not the only or best way to do it and keep all of Democratic coalition together while getting more read state votes.

    OT, but Jeb? is weird and saying things that are hard to believe anyone with a functioning brain would say. Maybe I heard him wrong on the news last night, but I thought he said, in pushing back against the wild conspiracy theory that W was president when the 0-11 attacks happened, something like ‘what are we going to hear next, that FDR was around when Pearl Harbor happened?’

    W. T. F. ?

    I believe the answer to that rhetorical question is ‘yes, FDR was around’, and gosh darn it, whether FDR ignored warnings about Pearl Harbor was a legitimate question. Too bad there are no records of FDR ending a military intelligence briefing about Japanese plans to attack specific US Pacific territories with ‘OK, you’ve covered your ass now, you can go back and warm the seat of your chair’.

    Of course, the right wing never pushed crazy conspiracy theories that FDR knew about the attacks beforehand and just let them happen to get us into WWII. But if he acted responsibly before hand is a legitimate question. But of course raising a similar question about W is outrageous and dishonors everything right and good.

    Maybe I heard Jeb? wrong. But I hope not, I hope he is as horrible a candidate as he seems to be so far.

  23. 23
    sharl says:

    @BGinCHI: Haha, beat me to it.

    Very disappointing. Based on political analyst Carl Diggler’s post-debate report cards, I was gonna go with Webb based on his T-level score. Oh well…

  24. 24
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Brachiator: The first five minutes of the Today show this morning was all Joe. Completely fact-less circle jerk. Some time much later on, oh yeah, 10 seconds on a big election result in Canada.

  25. 25
    jl says:

    @Iowa Old Lady: Blame the doofus pundits who are unhealthily obsessed with a male white supposedly centrist savior to rescue the Dems.

  26. 26
    Betty Cracker says:

    @jl: There was something about an independent run on an earlier CNN report, but a NYT article debunked it. I don’t believe Webb will make a 3rd party run, but we’ll see, I guess.

  27. 27
    trollhattan says:

    @Chyron HR:
    Heh!

    “He’s dead, Jim.”

  28. 28
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Betty Cracker: Maybe he can take over the Connecticut for Lieberman party.

  29. 29
    Cacti says:

    @NonyNony:

    Yesterday CNN was reporting the rumor that Webb was going to run as an independent. No word on that on this new story – just more BS about how the Democrats are giving up on the racists and that makes Jim Webb sad.

    (Democrats haven’t given up on farmers, Jim. They’ve given up on pandering to racists. There’s a difference here, and the farmers in my family who vote Democrat damn well know the difference.)

    Webb lost me a long time ago with his confederate flag hugging, and there’s no such thing as white privilege because Scots-Irish routine.

  30. 30
    trollhattan says:

    @BGinCHI:
    In Reno? Just because?

  31. 31
    Punchy says:

    10 seconds on a big election result in Canada North North Dakota

    FIFY for at least 27% of Americans.

  32. 32
    Elizabelle says:

    Hope Webb does drop out. Concerned about his potential as a spoiler in a few tight races (had he gone the independent route).

  33. 33
    Keith G says:

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    I like Joe Biden, but he’s annoying me.

    Don’t be too hasty.

    I imagine what is annoying many is the representation in the media of Biden’s thoughts and actions, as well as the self-aggrandizing comments said to be made by folks close to the Vice President.

    Maybe those are completely representative of the “Inner Joe”. Quite likely, a portion of it is inventive, click-hungry speculation. It was not that long ago that the in thing was to write a piece about the “Inner Barak” and why this President was…(fill in the blank).

  34. 34
    jl says:

    @Keith G: A possibility is that Biden knows the run is a bad idea, and that he is not really up to it, but very difficult for a natural politician with long standing dreams of the WH to let it go for good and for reals.

    Of course, self-aggrandizing confidants, associates, pundits and BSer are inconceivable in politics, it surely cannot be them who are puffing BS into the news.

  35. 35
    benw says:

    But is he tuning in and turning on?

  36. 36
    Mandalay says:

    Well it’s becoming understandable why the Palm Beach Gardens Police Department continue to hide from the media over the killing of a stranded motorist. The source of the dirt is “Gossip Extra”, but since they are providing very specific information I’m inclined to believe that they have a reliable snitch in PBGPD:

    The Palm Beach Gardens police officer who gunned down civilian Corey Jones early Sunday was on a surveillance mission in the parking lot of the DoubleTree Hotel on PGA Boulevard and had no business leaving his post to confront Jones, Gossip Extra has learned exclusively.

    What’s more, plain-clothed officer Nouman Raja forgot his shield and police radio in his car before his deadly encounter with Jones about 3:15 a.m. — AND ACTUALLY USED HIS PERSONAL CELL PHONE TO CALL 911 in the wake of the shooting!

    Making matters even worse for the police department, Jones has no criminal record and was properly permitted to carry a concealed firearm, Gossip Extra has confirmed…

    “The officer was on a stakeout in the parking lot because they’ve had a rash of thefts in cars,” the law enforcement source familiar with the case tells Gossip Extra. “He had no business leaving his post without his supervisor’s permission, which he didn’t have.

    (Raja) should have radioed for a marked unit to investigate Jones, which he didn’t do.”

    PBGPD will now be under pressure to confirm or deny that horror story.

  37. 37
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @Punchy: and in Nam, of course.

  38. 38
    Cacti says:

    The new liberal Canadian Prime Minister in waiting also supports piping his country’s filthy tar sands across the United States.

    Boo!

  39. 39
    Peale says:

    @Ohio Mom: I think its funny how Republicans look back at Hillary in her 20s and assume she was a radical feminist bra burning flower power child…since for which she can never be forgiven even 50 years on. Progressives can’t get over that time she volunteered for Goldwater.

  40. 40
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @jl:

    ‘what are we going to hear next, that FDR was around when Pearl Harbor happened?’

    I think I follow this: Jeb is saying that Dubya wasn’t _responsible_ for 9/11, just _around_ when it befell the country; similarly, any criticism of FDR for Pearl Harbor would be an unfair placement of blame. The problem of course is that the party of Bengh-frenzi and “Who lost China?” doesn’t really have a leg to stand on when it comes to blame-laying. (‘Cos if you’re laying blame you need at least one damn leg.)

  41. 41

    @jl: It’s normally quite hard to keep Joe Biden from speaking his mind. He needs to do it now.

  42. 42
    goblue72 says:

    @MattF: He’d run as a Republican or not at all. Running as an Independent is a fool’s errand in our election system. There’s no room for him on the Democratic side – he wouldn’t make it out of the Democratic primary. That leaves running as the savior of the GOP. The Teapublicans can throw as many temper tantrums as they want – they will still vote for him. Just like they voted for Romney and McCain. Only trick is whether he can peel off enough white swing voters or not. Entirely possible since he’s pro-choice and pro gay-marriage, but pro-business and pro-tax cut – your basic suburban middle class / upper-middle class white voter.

  43. 43
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @jl: @Keith G: I think, and you (Keith) may have pointed this out the other day yourself, that Team Biden is quite likely awaiting any scandalous developments from Hillary’s Benghazi testimony. If something terrible surfaces, he can swoop in; if it doesn’t, he can opt out.

  44. 44
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @goblue72: I really, really, REALLY don’t think blue-collar conservatives would vote for Michael Bloomberg, meddlesome soda nanny. If he were to somehow take the GOP nomination I’d have to believe that Trump would run as an independent and the two wings of the GOP would nuke each other for a year.

  45. 45
    BGinCHI says:

    If HRC made the “Now I’m the only one left to have killed a man, purportedly (wink),” I would vote for her 50 times.

  46. 46
    JPL says:

    I posted this earlier, but it’s worth repeating. Luckovich gives new meaning to My Pet Goat..

    put down your coffee, btw

  47. 47
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Punchy:

    I’m going to need help to understand why I should care at all about this development.

    If he runs as an independent, he’s a potential spoiler in a close race in Virginia.

  48. 48
    CONGRATULATIONS! says:

    Who is this?

  49. 49

    @FlipYrWhig: I heard some pundit talking about what the Benghazi committee hoped to achieve with Clinton which was keep hammering at her for hours and hope she “cracked.”

    First, I don’t know what “cracked” could mean. She breaks into tears and sobs she personally ordered a whole battalion that was mile away to stand down? What do they think will happen?

    Second, have they ever seen Clinton in action? She is tough. Hoping they can break her down is about the same as inviting Obama to speak to their caucus and allowing cameras because they’ve swallowed their own kool aid and believe they can make him look stupid.

  50. 50
    Mandalay says:

    @BGinCHI:

    If HRC made the “Now I’m the only one left to have killed a man, purportedly (wink),” I would vote for her 50 times.

    Careful what you wish for. That might prompt new candidates, and we’ll end up with President Laura Bush.

  51. 51
    peach flavored shampoo says:

    @Mandalay: This doesn’t pass even the slightest smell test. Why would he “forget” his
    badge in the car? How else was he going to announce and demonstrate himself as a police officer, being in plain clothes?

    And I have a hypothetical: assuming the rookie cop missed, could the motorist have shot back, then claimed SYG? How was he supposed to know this guy was police?

    I suspect the coverup story and “evidence” is being furiously constructed and rehearsed.

  52. 52
    Peale says:

    @goblue72: I’d like to think he’d win in New York City and carry that state’s primary. But we’re apparently not homers when it comes to presidential campaigns. Someone has convinced Pataki that he’s necessary. I don’t think Bloomberg is that easily fooled.

  53. 53
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @FlipYrWhig: A Bloomberg-Trump contest would make every New Yorker I know say “ptui!”

  54. 54
    Keith G says:

    @jl: I have been thinking (and occasionally) typing all along that the Joe Biden was willing to stay “campaign adjacent” as a political equivalent of a safe school. We have HRC or we have no one (sorry Sandernistas**). It was a good idea to have Joe around just in case another, more potent, Clinton whoopsie popped up.

    HRC showed that she was the real deal in the debate and hopefully she will get the drop on Gowdy and sail through the hearing on Thursday. After which, Joe can turn to the process of preparing to be a full time Pappaw and star of the speech for money circuit.

    ** Je ne plaisante

    @FlipYrWhig: Oui

  55. 55
    trollhattan says:

    @Mandalay:

    Making matters even worse for the police department, Jones has no criminal record and was properly permitted to carry a concealed firearm,

    “Good guy with a gun.” Just like Wayne LaPierre promised.

  56. 56
    Samuel Knight says:

    That Canadian election actually says a lot about US politics. Essentially if you are a progressive don’t be an idiot and endorse bad economics like austerity.

    At the start of the Canadian campaign the NDP (social democrats) lead the polling and the Liberals lagged. They had a more experienced leader, deeper candidates, etc. But all of a sudden, in a national televised debate, the NDP leader talked about deficits and promised a balanced budget, while the Liberal leader pledged infrastructure investments and a few years of deficit spending. And immediately the polls shifted to the Liberals.

    Now there was also a lot of talk about naqibs (muslim’s women’s veils) that “centrist” commentators are blaming for the change. But both the Liberals and the NDP had the same position on this issue – they both said it was a stupid distraction.

    It was the economy, stupid. One party said yes, of course we need to spend money to fix things and the other mimicked the conservative frame. Even more stunning for the NDP – it was exactly the same mistake Labour had made in Great Britain.

  57. 57
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Think of how much fun the NY Post would have!

  58. 58
    trollhattan says:

    @peach flavored shampoo:
    Certainly carries the Zimmerman stench about it. What state was this, again?

  59. 59
    trollhattan says:

    @Samuel Knight:
    Excellent points. Is our Democrats learning?

  60. 60
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Iowa Old Lady: They probably figure that in the right hands it would go like one of those Law & Order episodes where Vincent D’Onofrio stands at funny angles and puts the suspect into a state of utter bewilderment until he loses track of his lies, snaps, and admits he did the terrible thing.

  61. 61
    trollhattan says:

    @Keith G:
    I believe the Dems have settled into their primary campaign status quo and it’s just plain itchiness/boredom creating various change scenarios. Joe will remain out. Bernie will continue to pursue but not catch Hillary. Let all the ruckus remain on the other side.

  62. 62
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @jl: nah, he’s behind all of it. He’s trying to keep interest bubbling while he waits to see if anything sticks at the Ben Gazzara hearing.

  63. 63
    Samuel Knight says:

    Oh yes, on Biden I assume that the MSM reporters just like it because the constant yabbering about Biden means that they don’t have to think, and they can hurt Democrat’s prospects.

    He has really no advantages over Hillary:
    He’s older, dumber, more corporate, and has horrendously crashed whenever he tried to run for President before. The only way that he might pull voters is that supposedly he’s been less hawkish of foreign policy. But hard to think that this subtle nuance would move the needle in the primary.

    If he goes in, he gets crushed.

  64. 64

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Completely fact-less circle jerk.

    Doesn’t that describe the entire show?

  65. 65
    Mandalay says:

    @peach flavored shampoo:

    This doesn’t pass even the slightest smell test. Why would he “forget” his badge in the car? How else was he going to announce and demonstrate himself as a police officer, being in plain clothes?

    You may well be right, but if it is true that cop is in very deep shit, and it also explains why PBGPD isn’t talking to the media.

    Regardless, if the cops were going to fabricate a cover-up story I doubt if they would invent that nightmare scenario.

  66. 66

    @Keith G:
    Media rumors of what a politician is totally going to do have proved to be utter bullshit over and over for the last six years. Remember when Obama was going to cut Social Security? And quite recently I was told that Hillary was going to renounce Obama’s policies. Everything I’ve heard from Biden himself was ‘Eh, I don’t feel like it,’ which has the Village yelling ‘That’s not no!’ like a desperate teenager.

    Beltway journalists are absolutely desperate for Biden to enter the race, and have plenty of reasons. The GOP primary is a clusterfuck, and the Democratic primary is smooth, even a little friendlier than usual. It’s really hard to claim that both sides do it. Republicans are in disarray, when that’s the Democrats’ job. Trump is making it really hard to pretend that the GOP is not racist. Hillary is leading comfortably, and is likely to win the presidency itself, despite decades of them trying to export their loathing of her to the general public. She and Sanders are – yuck! – talking about issues and what the government can do to help people.

    The national media want a spoiler in the Democratic race so bad they can taste it, and a possible Biden campaign is all they can think of.

  67. 67
    Brachiator says:

    @Keith G:

    I imagine what is annoying many is the representation in the media of Biden’s thoughts and actions, as well as the self-aggrandizing comments said to be made by folks close to the Vice President.

    Nope. I don’t care about media reporting or representation of Biden. I do care that a Biden run for the presidency might cause unnecessary turmoil for the Democrats.

    HRC showed that she was the real deal in the debate and hopefully she will get the drop on Gowdy and sail through the hearing on Thursday. After which, Joe can turn to the process of preparing to be a full time Pappaw and star of the speech for money circuit.

    Yep. Clinton showed that she had things under control, and was managing her campaign well, and perhaps getting and following good advice. She and Sanders also got on together well.

  68. 68
    Patricia Kayden says:

    Who cares? Webb was never a viable candidate. If he runs as an independent, he’ll just be wasting his time. Guess he must be bored in his retirement and needs to find something interesting to do.

  69. 69
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Samuel Knight: Big Media thinks of Biden as a champion of lunchpail Democrats. They think Hillary is phony and calculating and Bernie is a wild-haired hippie pinko. I think it was in the glory days of the Daily Howler that Somerby was fond of a quotation from Chris Matthews about how you expect to find onstage at Democratic events “a bunch of hairy sweaty people yelling” (from memory; if that’s not it, it’s something close to that). Biden is supposed to be the Sweaty People Yelling candidate.

  70. 70
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Peale: Well, HRC was what, 17 during her “Goldwater Girl” phase? No one’s political views evolve after age 17.

  71. 71
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Patricia Kayden: The weird thing about it is that Webb hated running for Senate, he hated _being_ in the Senate, he hated raising money for the Senate, and he’s not a people person. I don’t know why he runs for anything. Why not just write a book — which he’s actually good at — and tour the country promoting it, hectoring the other Democrats for straying from the party’s white populist roots?

  72. 72
    Mandalay says:

    @Keith G:

    I have been thinking (and occasionally) typing all along that the Joe Biden was willing to stay “campaign adjacent” as a political equivalent of a safe school.

    That had never occurred to me, but your view is highly plausible. If you are correct – and we’ll probably never know for sure – then those of us who have been disparaging Biden over his wavering (including me) would owe the man an apology.

  73. 73
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Ohio Mom:

    I looked at the debate line-up and remarked to my husband, “How interesting that out of five of them, two used to be Republicans.” “Three,” he corrected me, “Hillary.”

    To look at it another way, the only one among them who’s a lifelong Democrat is Martin O’Malley. Sanders still isn’t one!

  74. 74
    RaflW says:

    @Punchy:

    I’m going to need help to understand why I should care at all about this development.

    You don’t need to care at all. Media types are obsessed with process stories. They don’t care about the policies of who is up, who is down, or who got elected. Just the daily activities of the campaigns.

    I’m not sure why we are burdened with such myopia in our press, nor whether other countries have news systems that share this tedious attention to what moves (rather than the more consequential why)?

  75. 75
  76. 76
    Peale says:

    @FlipYrWhig: Yep. Donald Trump was probably a Democrat longer than Sanders and Chaffee combined.

  77. 77
    Brachiator says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Well, HRC was what, 17 during her “Goldwater Girl” phase? No one’s political views evolve after age 17.

    Apparently, HRC voted to support Bush in Iraq when she was 17. Wrote it down in her diary and later transcribed it into an email when she was at the State Department.

    Are there rational people who really diss Clinton for being a Goldwater supporter, what, a thousand years ago?

  78. 78
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @RaflW: IMHO it’s because of the success of the Making of the President books. Achieve Big Thinkings about a presidential campaign and you too can be lionized for 50 years!

  79. 79
    japa21 says:

    @Betty Cracker: At 13 I was campaigning for Nixon. Yes, views evolve.

  80. 80
    RaflW says:

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    I like Joe Biden, but he’s annoying me.

    I am annoyed at the idiot press. As I was just saying about process reporting and our twaddle-tossing newspaper typists, this whole Biden thing seems media-created. Are Biden fans feeding it? I’m sure they are. Maybe even Ol’ Joe is to some extent. But it has always read to me as a bored media hoping for a real fight.

  81. 81
    Cacti says:

    @Brachiator:

    Apparently, HRC voted to support Bush in Iraq when she was 17. Wrote it down in her diary and later transcribed it into an email when she was at the State Department.

    Are there rational people who really diss Clinton for being a Goldwater supporter, what, a thousand years ago?

    The same group is usually content to give Elizabeth Warren a pass for being Republican until age 46.

  82. 82
  83. 83
    RaflW says:

    @japa21: At 18 I voted for Reagan. By 19 I was deeply embarrassed by that.

  84. 84
    redshirt says:

    I thought I was catching Webbmentum, but it turned out to be lupus instead. What a relief!

  85. 85
    Elizabelle says:

    C-Span 2 has Webb on live.

    Withdrawing from Dem race, but has he closed the door to an independent run? Sounds like he still hopes to go that route. He could be a problem in Virginia and NC, and maybe Ohio, if he did.

    And f*ck him for saying the Democrats have gone extreme. Hardly. We’ve never given Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren’s ideas a chance. Wish we could be as smart as Canada and most of Europe.

  86. 86
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Iowa Old Lady: just caught him trolling HRC about her “Republicans are my enemies” line. He’s got a lot of Republican friends, that’s how you get things done..

    Jesus, Joe, let it go.

  87. 87
    Archon says:

    @Cacti:

    Never understood the pass Warren got. While people like Obama were in the trenches opposing conservative policies as a young man, she was voting for them, in her forties! Her half-hearted answer about, “she thought they were better on markets” was weak sauce. And yet she gets a pass from a disconcerting amount of liberals.

  88. 88
    Elizabelle says:

    Yep. First question about independent run, and he says he’s planning to talk to a bunch of people (actually, their money) in the next few weeks.

    His target is people who have never voted for a Democrat. Well well.

  89. 89
    Peale says:

    @Brachiator:

    So the old Hillary Clinton who was drawn to Barry Goldwater has finally shown her colors. Although Goldwater would likely have lost to Johnson, the public then was mindful of what was at stake, and the famed Daisy ad is attributed with increasing Johnson’s margin of victory:

  90. 90
    Cacti says:

    @RaflW:

    I am annoyed at the idiot press. As I was just saying about process reporting and our twaddle-tossing newspaper typists, this whole Biden thing seems media-created. Are Biden fans feeding it? I’m sure they are. Maybe even Ol’ Joe is to some extent. But it has always read to me as a bored media hoping for a real fight.

    The breathless media speculation about imaginary candidate Biden is fully explained by an article title over at The Hill:

    “Poll: Without Biden, Clinton Trounces Sanders”.

  91. 91
    Elizabelle says:

    @Cacti:
    @Archon:

    But E Warren came around, and is fervently for policies that will grow the middle and working classes.

    Is that not pure enough for you guys? Cannot someone have a change of heart and direction?

  92. 92
    Elizabelle says:

    “We’ll think about that.” — Webb’s response to Q: Do you still consider yourself a Democrat.

    Says he ran as a Dem because of the history of the Democratic party — it gives those who don’t have a voice a say.

    So: does it not do that now? Does he want to pull votes from people who are fine with voting restrictions for other people, and are Tea Party but embarrassed to vote for Trump?

    Very, very disgusted with Mr. Webb for his “extremism” comments about the Democratic party. Methinks he will get discussed more at the next Dem debate, now that he’s left the race and maybe the party.

    He just said he doesn’t want to sound like he’s running down the Democratic party. Then he went directly to issues group.

    His point is affirmative action, and he’s got a good point because poor white peeps are also disadvantaged. Wouldn’t you try to lift all, though?

  93. 93
    SatanicPanic says:

    Joe Biden needs to stop fooling around. Call a press conference and say “I am not running” and retire with some dignity.

  94. 94
    Mandalay says:

    @peach flavored shampoo:

    I suspect the coverup story and “evidence” is being furiously constructed and rehearsed.

    The president of the Police Union in Palm Beach is turning the screw. He said “You don’t want another Ferguson” and is telling the chief of PBGPD to face the media. Meanwhile, Palm Beach Gardens Police Department have taken down their Facebook page.

    I’m sure if they just hide under the bed for a couple of days everyone will move on, and overlook the murder.

  95. 95
    Archon says:

    @Elizabelle:

    Sure it is, it just annoys me every time I have to defend the President’s progressive bonafides with Elizabeth Warren supporters.

  96. 96
    Elizabelle says:

    A reporter is asking where Webb was campaigning, and how many staffers he had. She’s aggressively professional in doing so.

  97. 97
    Princess says:

    @Elizabelle: Sure, but don’t turn around and rant about Hillary supporting Goldwater when she was fifteen.

    It may also be worth noting that the two leading GOP candidates were both once Democrats.

  98. 98
    Cacti says:

    @Elizabelle:

    But E Warren came around, and is fervently for policies that will grow the middle and working classes.

    Is that not pure enough for you guys? Cannot someone have a change of heart and direction?

    Same as Archon.

    I believe Warren’s philosophical change was sincere.

    It just gets a bit grating having a two-time Reagan voter held up as the paragon of liberal principles.

  99. 99
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @RaflW: I’m sure they are. Maybe even Ol’ Joe is to some extent. But it has always read to me as a bored media hoping for a real fight.

    It’s Biden. He can’t let go, and now his ambition, that as I think Mo Udall said can only be cured with embalming fluid, is fused with his grief for his son. I’m not unsympathetic, but none of it is a case for a 74 year old with a bad history as a national candidate getting into the race.

    As for the media, on some level they want a real fight, and they like Joe Biden, a lot of them I’m sure on a real, personal level (not like me who “likes” him but has never met him) but I think it’s far more their contempt for Clinton. They want to be able to say that Biden represents her weakness.

  100. 100
    Elizabelle says:

    Another reporter: Democrats in Iowa say they haven’t seen you. What were you doing?

    If you’re having troubles with the Democratic hieararchy, how do you explain that a Socialist is doing so well in the Democratic primary?

  101. 101
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    They want to be able to say that Biden represents her weakness.

    This. They want Biden to be the Everyday Joe candidate.

  102. 102
    Archon says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Yeah I like Biden a lot, but I’m not sure I trust his political instincts enough to give him my vote in the primary. He’s been wrong on a lot of key issues. So has Hillary but at least she has gone through the gauntlet of a Presidential nomination while defending her record, Biden for the most part has gotten a pass, which he won’t get as soon as he announces.

  103. 103
    Peale says:

    @Elizabelle: Yep. Its gotta be embarassing for him, but no, I don’t think he should get to have the dramatic exit. He hasn’t worked to earn the dramatic exit. I hate the whole election process we have currently. It’s too long and candidates spend way too much time with silly rituals in Iowa (Did you know that no democrat has won the nomination without first eating tow of Mrs. Peters’ Blondie Bars since Tilden?). But that said, I don’t think I’d consider a nominee who absolutely refused to play by any of those rules and rituals. You don’t have to win in Iowa, but you do have to look like you’re interested in those votes.

    Webb can’t say he’s been dismissed by the party when he hasn’t done anything to get a single vote.

  104. 104
    Mandalay says:

    @Elizabelle:

    And f*ck him for saying the Democrats have gone extreme.

    Right. He was the only Democrat I can recall who thought we should take a Broder-like perspective on the Confederate Flag. He was more to the right on that issue than most Republicans, who at least had the wisdom and decency to keep their traps shut regardless of what they actually believed. If you are black why would you vote for Webb after that?

    Yet Webb says its the Democrats who have gone extreme.

  105. 105

    I hope Webb does do a third party run. He’ll be an option for Republicans who are too embarrassed by the current party but too proud to vote for the Dem and has a bit of a spoiler effect. Might make the difference in some close races.

  106. 106
    Elizabelle says:

    Canada did it right. 78 days, which they thought was too long.

    90 days might do us better, for the primary race, and then another 30-45 days after that for the general. Engage people, play to them when they’re paying attention.

    With regional primaries that rotate. Forget Iowa and New Hampshire. They’re not relevant.

    Politics is big business for the political and media and financial/rentier class. The billion dollar marathon is not serving us well.

    Wish Canada was not so cold.

  107. 107
    D58826 says:

    Somewhat OT but CBS is reporting on the wingnut caucus’s list of hostages for the debt ceiling
    1. 3.8 trillion in cuts from mandatory programs like social security and medicare over the next decade
    2.freeze all regulations until after the next president takes office
    3. the senate has to change it’s filibuster rules on the initial procedural vote on spending bills.

    And tghe cow jumps over the moon. If Boehner gets his clean debt limit passed there will be h-ll to pay in the House. If these are the wingnut terms it would make it pretty difficult for Ryan to come up with a solution if he even takes the job.

  108. 108
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Elizabelle: With regional primaries that rotate. Forget Iowa and New Hampshire. They’re not relevant.

    Hear, fucking hear.

  109. 109
    raven says:

    AMF lifer motherfucker.

  110. 110
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Mandalay: He’s as prominent as he is thanks to an election in which his opponent was George “Macaca” Allen. He probably thinks he’s the racial moderate.

  111. 111
    MattF says:

    @D58826: … and Greg Sargent agrees with you. One aspect of the situation is the ideological distance between Rs and Ds, particularly in the House. The Rs have boxed themselves in.

  112. 112
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @D58826: Boehner doesn’t have the votes. We’re headed for default and shutdown, and a recession for which Obama and therefore Democrats will be blamed. There is no pony caucus that will elect a reasonable speaker.

  113. 113
    Kropadope says:

    A big problem with Webb was that he was trying to run as an less-war-inclined alternative to Clinton, but then he came out against the Iran deal, destroying any potential cred he may have had for filling that role.

  114. 114
    Peale says:

    @D58826: I assume that they mean freeze new regulations. Or are they just giving everyone a free for all for 15 months.

  115. 115
    Mandalay says:

    As he inches closer to deciding whether he’ll enter the 2016 race, Vice President Joe Biden provided new details today on the deliberations over the Osama bin Laden raid, seemingly revising his position on one of the most important decisions of the Obama administration.

    Biden said he privately advised the president to go forward with the 2011 raid, a decision he previously has said he opposed.

    Thanks for that giant shit sandwich Joe, and your timing is impreccable. Now we will have the media hyperventilating over Osama bin Laden when they could be discussing Democratic positions on the minimum wage, health care, BLM and college costs.

  116. 116
    chromeagnomen says:

    @Princess: both sides do it!!11!!

  117. 117
    Kropadope says:

    @Bobby Thomson:

    Boehner doesn’t have the votes. We’re headed for default and shutdown, and a recession for which Obama and therefore Democrats will be blamed. There is no pony caucus that will elect a reasonable speaker.

    He doesn’t have the votes for his caucus’s extortion attempt, but he may well have enough votes for a clean increase when supplemented by the Democrats. Now that he’s on his way out, I’m sure he wouldn’t mind standing up to the wingnut contingent of his caucus (arbitrarily estimated at 98%).

  118. 118
    WaterGirl says:

    @Amir Khalid: Amir, I just have to ask. You have been relentlessly negative about Joe Biden in your comments over the last month or so. What makes you feel so strongly that Biden should not run?

    Also, I have been wondering how your health is. You have seemed a bit less gracious lately than your always gracious self. I can get kind of cranky when I don’t feel well, so I have been hoping that maybe we’re just seeing an edgier Amir rather than a health issue.

    (Hoping I am not offending you with my questions.)

  119. 119
    Shana says:

    @Matt McIrvin: “A potential spoiler in Virginia”? Not a chance.

  120. 120
    Kropadope says:

    @Mandalay:

    Now we will have the media hyperventilating over Osama bin Laden when they could be discussing Democratic positions on the minimum wage, health care, BLM and college costs.

    Hahahaha, you think they would be having an earnest discussion of candidates’ policies and positions if not for Biden raising the specter of Bin Laden? You give them waaaay too much credit.

  121. 121
    D58826 says:

    @Peale: The CBS report said ALL regulations, which would be …. actually at a loss for words to describe it. When I first read the article I assumed they meant new regulations and some of Obama’s more recent one. Federal regulations go back decades. These people live in a universe that is even further removed from reality than the Star Wars universe.

  122. 122

    @Kropadope:
    Boehner has always had the votes for clean increases. The only reason we have had these shutdown showdowns is that Boehner insisted on passing everything with only Republican votes. The last five years would have looked totally different if he wasn’t a jackass abusing his position in ways no speaker ever has before. He gave the Teabaggers their power in the House. If he didn’t cater to them, they’d be a whiny fringe nobody noticed.

  123. 123
    Citizen Alan says:

    When I contemplate all this Sturm and Drang about Jim Webb, it’s amazing to look back and realize that literally the only reason anyone knows his name is because George Allen was unable to resist the temptation to use a racial slur even though he knew he was being filmed.

  124. 124
    srv says:

    John Coles of the Left like Amy Goodman go after Biden

    While a new campaign would seek to capitalize on Biden’s two terms as vice president, it would also invite scrutiny of his Senate record in a Democratic political climate that’s notably more progressive today than it was when Biden last sought the nomination. Biden’s 1994 crime bill, while implementing sweeping gun control, also helped fuel mass incarceration with financial incentives to keep people behind bars. Biden is also known for close ties to the financial industry, notably helping push through a 2005 bill that made it harder for consumers to declare bankruptcy. He represented the state of Delaware. According to The New York Times, the credit card issuer MBNA was Biden’s top donor from 1989 to 2010.

  125. 125
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @srv: and she doesn’t mention Anita Hill or the fact that as late as 2008 he was bragging about how he and John McCain rewrote the Iraq AUMF (Bush wanted much broader authority, beyond Iraq)

  126. 126
    D58826 says:

    @Kropadope: Actually he may not have the votes period. The last debt limit vote passed with 221 yeas, 58 of which were republican. Eight of the yes votes are no longer in Congress and some of their replacements are hardliners. It will only take 3 yes to no flips and the bill goes down. The democrats don’t have the votes to make up the difference. All other things being equal how will the other 50 GOPer’s vote this time. A yes vote might very well trigger a teaparty challenge in 2016. In sum. the previous path of using mostly democratic votes might not be there is time.

  127. 127
    piratedan says:

    Webb can go and caucus with the other No Labels group and rebuild themselves a suitable “sane” alternative to the GOP along with Bloomy and Bayh and sit down for interview with David Brooks and tut tut accordingly.

  128. 128
    NotMax says:

    @D58826

    Tantrumocracy.

  129. 129
    gene108 says:

    @Elizabelle:

    Canada did it right. 78 days, which they thought was too long.

    90 days might do us better, for the primary race, and then another 30-45 days after that for the general. Engage people, play to them when they’re paying attention.

    In a Parliamentary system, you are effectively voting for the Party. The Party decides person ‘x’ will be the PM, if they take power. There are no local, national or province wide votes on alternates to the PM candidate the Party says will be PM.

    You either support what the Party is selling or you do not.

    And what the Party supports or does not support is fairly concise.

    In America, we vote for individuals, who just happen to be part of one of two Parties.

    Very different system.

    We can probably shorten the election cycle from what it has now become, but I don’t think we can cut it below 6-9 months.

  130. 130
    Mandalay says:

    @Kropadope: Ha! Point taken, but Biden is sucking all the oxygen out of the room when he runs his mouth. Here he is sticking the boot in on Hillary Clinton this morning:

    Biden said that one of his major roles was to serve as Obama’s top emissary abroad to global leaders. In those meetings, he said, he served a more important role than other administration officials for delivering messages to the likes of Russian President Vladimir Putin.

    We’ve had two great secretaries of state, but when I go, they know that I am speaking for the president. There is nothing missed between the lip of the cup, that whatever I say, the president is saying

    Those bitchy comments are completely understandable if he is planning to run. But if he isn’t he needs to STFU and go away ASAP.

    It looks increasingly probable that the Democratic race will be just like the Republican race, with Biden and Clinton sniping at each other, and arguing about who has the biggest dick.

  131. 131
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @piratedan: If you follow DougJ on Twitter, he’s way ahead of you on this.

  132. 132
    WaterGirl says:

    I actually think Joe Biden privately decided to run but has left himself time to sit with that decision because it’s not a good idea to make big life-changing decisions while you’re grieving your beloved son.

    Now I think it’s just a matter of timing for him to make his announcement. Let the first debate come and go without him. Wait for Hillary’s testimony on Benghazi. Webb and Chafee drop out, then Biden joins the race.

    *All of this is based on my mind-reading from afar, so I am not quitting my day job.

  133. 133
    raven says:

    @Bobby Thomson: yeah yea, freak the fuck out

  134. 134

    @WaterGirl: Makes more sense than the Punditubbies on TV.

  135. 135
    Betty Cracker says:

    @WaterGirl: Could be. From what I’ve read, he’ll run into filing deadlines at the end of this month, so that’s a hard deadline. Personally, I hope he stays out.

  136. 136

    @raven: I think some people are addicted to doom and gloom, it even cuts across the political spectrum. I propose a third party, called, the Sky is Falling party.

  137. 137

    @Betty Cracker: He shouldn’t run, he loves to talk and suffers from the foot in mouth disease.

  138. 138
    WaterGirl says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: Biden is seen as authentic, and this is certainly the year when someone who speaks their mind is in high demand.

  139. 139
    Brachiator says:

    @Mandalay:

    It looks increasingly probable that the Democratic race will be just like the Republican race, with Biden and Clinton sniping at each other, and arguing about who has the biggest dick.

    I’m sure that the Republicans think that Clinton wins this one. And maybe so.

  140. 140
    Amir Khalid says:

    @WaterGirl:
    Like many here, I see little real reason for Joe to run; if he does, he’ll only weaken Hillary, the Democratic party’s best candidate. I also think that his continued dithering confirms that, by his own standard as he explained it to Colbert, he doesn’t have the certainty he needs to run. This drama is already a drag on his good name. I confess I am rather annoyed with Joe, who should know better than to let it go on.

    As you may remember, I was in hospital for a few days this Ramadhan. Other than that, my health, though not great, is no worse than usual.

  141. 141
    EBT says:

    Goodbye Mr Rockwell hope the door cracks a disk in your spine on the way out.

  142. 142
    Mandalay says:

    So Palm beach Gardens Police Department have just released their version of the truth. It looks like the plain clothes cop didn’t identify himself properly when he confronted the stranded motorist, and the dead man didn’t fire any shots:

    According to a Palm Beach County Sheriff’s Office source who can’t comment publicly, the account Palm Beach Gardens officer Nouman Raja told investigators is that stranded motorist Corey Jones pulled a gun on him as soon as Raja approached him on the PGA exit ramp from I-95 and said “Police, man, are you alright?”

    Raja said he then fired two to three shots at Jones, who was standing behind his open driver’s side door. He said Jones then took off running.

    Raja told investigators he was tracking Jones as he ran, and saw him make it to the guardrail west of the car, about 30 feet away.

    The source said Raja said he could see the flickering silver of a laser on Jones’ gun, and that’s when he took aim and fired two more times.

    Raja was working an undercover surveillance detail on burgled cars, and pulled up to Jones in a white unmarked passenger van, perpendicular to the front of Jones’ car.

    He was wearing jeans, a tan t-shirt and a ball cap. He did not have his duty gun on him, but a smaller, back-up Glock in a front holster. The duty gun was in the van.

    The source said Raja told detectives Jones was standing, and Jones immediately said “I’m okay.”

    Raja said he then identified himself as police, and that’s when Jones pulled out his gun, and Raja immediately shot at him.

    Raja had left his police radio in the van, and called 911 on his cell phone as he tracked Jones running away.

    According to the source, evidence technicians found five casings from Raja’s Glock 40 at the scene.

    They also found a Jimenez Arms 380 semi-automatic pistol, with six live rounds in the magazine, which apparently belonged to Jones.

    The story stinks to high heaven but the killer will walk since the incident wasn’t recorded. It’s the word of a cop vs. the word a dead black man.

  143. 143
    goblue72 says:

    @FlipYrWhig: Good point. The Trump is an insane wild card in this election. Even more crazy than Ross Perot, who was a more oblique protest candidate that pulled votes about equally from both parties (essentially negating the influence his candidacy had on the election outcomes) – where Trump is pulling solely from the GOP’s base.

    Course, Trump could bow out at any point where he gets bored. And its still possible he will implode – undisciplined, amateur candidates tend to do that.

  144. 144

    @WaterGirl:Authenticity is over-rated as is being an outsider and a non-politician.

  145. 145
    Kropadope says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: Authenticity is something many people only want in theory. Too much honesty pulling you away from the conventional wisdom will spook the sheeple.

  146. 146
    henqiguai says:

    @FlipYrWhig(#43):

    …Team Biden is quite likely awaiting any scandalous developments from Hillary’s Benghazi testimony. If something terrible surfaces, he can swoop in; if it doesn’t, he can opt out.

    No, d@mmit! He’s trolling. Trolling Republicans, trolling the idiot media, trolling Teahadists.

    That’s *my* theory, and I’m sticking with it!

  147. 147
    Brachiator says:

    @goblue72:

    where Trump is pulling solely from the GOP’s base.

    This is not necessarily true. No one can say how Trump would do if by some miracle he actually becomes the GOP nominee.

    Perhaps the nearest parallel is the broad support that the Governator got when he ran for California governor.

    Course, Trump could bow out at any point where he gets bored. And its still possible he will implode – undisciplined, amateur candidates tend to do that.

    Have there been many candidates like Trump running for president?

    I think he stepped up his game in his recent attacks on Jeb! over whether Dubya kept us safe. And the thing is that even though he may have alienated some Republicans here, he is looking like a bold truth teller to other Republicans, and he is also clearly reaching out to non-Republicans.

    This may be an amateur, but a cagey one.

  148. 148
    Brachiator says:

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    Authenticity is over-rated as is being an outsider and a non-politician.

    This is true, but American voters often make an absolute fetish over independence and authenticity.

  149. 149
    brantl says:

    If he runs independently, having seen the assholes running as republicans. I vote that every democrat give him a swift kick in the cojones.

  150. 150
    dedc79 says:

    Jeb Watch (or, perhaps more accurately, Lack of Jeb Watch):

    Trump led the field of likely New Hampshire Republican voters at 28 percent, followed by Florida Sen. Marco Rubio at 12 percent, retired neurosurgeon Dr. Ben Carson at 11 percent, and Ohio Gov. John Kasich at 10 percent. No other candidate in the crowded field polled in double digits.

  151. 151
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @dedc79: Wasn’t there a woman in the race recently? Somebody named Carol, or Cheryl, or something like that? Supposed to be the next great thing?

  152. 152
    trollhattan says:

    @dedc79:
    How the heck does Kasich pop his head up in the whackamole box? So sad to see the end of Carlimentum.

  153. 153
    dedc79 says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Was actually discussing this earlier with friends. I think the Republicans feel like they’ve checked the box for considering a woman candidate and now it’s time to move on. Carson will soon get the same treatment. It’s the GOP’s version of the NFL’s Rooney Rule.

  154. 154
    slag says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    Like many here, I see little real reason for Joe to run; if he does, he’ll only weaken Hillary, the Democratic party’s best candidate. I also think that his continued dithering confirms that, by his own standard as he explained it to Colbert, he doesn’t have the certainty he needs to run. This drama is already a drag on his good name. I confess I am rather annoyed with Joe, who should know better than to let it go on.

    What you said.

  155. 155
    goblue72 says:

    @Brachiator: Schwarzenegger ran as a moderate Republican. He was not allergic to environmentalism/climate change (while Governor, he passed the country’s only cap-and-trade system) and was generally not a culture war firebrand. Thus, his positions over-lapped with the voter preferences of more conservative Democratic and Independent voters.

    The same was true of Perot, whose policy positions overlapped with the voter preferences of a bloc of “centrist” Republican, Democratic, and Independent voters.

    Trump’s policy positions do not overlap in the Venn diagram of voter preferences with Democratic voters – and I would suspect do not overlap much with the voter preferences of any Independent registered voters. His candidacy is almost entirely drawn from Republican voters, though not necessarily from the Tea Party wing of the GOP.

    His candidacy is not similar to that of Schwarzenegger or Perot. The Governator soundly defeated the Democratic candidate when he first had to run for office after his recall term expired – and he did so by drawing on voters that otherwise would have gone to a Democrat. Here, Trump is just cannibalizing GOP votes, while driving away Independent votes. In head to heads with Hillary, he fares worse than other GOP candidates.

  156. 156
    Kay says:

    I think the debates will be much less fun without the also-rans. Thank God that nice man, whats-his-name, is still around.

  157. 157
    Redshift says:

    @Gin & Tonic: I am pleased that I seem to have predicted one thing correctly — that the Carly “boom” was entirely manufactured by the fluffing she got from the Fox hosts at the first debate (the main debate, not the one she was actually in.) There was nothing real to sustain it.

  158. 158
    ThresherK (GPad) says:

    Cheesy Petes, this GOP silly season, it’s like watching the Dot Race on the jumbotron at a minor-league hockey game. If you can imagine a Dot Race going on for an hour, that is.

  159. 159
    srv says:

    @Brachiator:

    Have there been many candidates like Trump running for president?

    Trump is the new Teddy Roosevelt, except not having to run third party in 1912.

  160. 160
    dedc79 says:

    @trollhattan: Was wondering about that Kasich number too, and whether it might just reflect the eccentricities of NH republicans as compared to most of the rest of the country. Because Kasich is barely registering in the national polls or polls from other early primary states.

  161. 161
    Kay says:

    Also Kasich-watch is a lot less fun than Walker-watch was:

    today’s new national Monmouth poll: John Kasich down to 1 percent. Tied with Jindal.

    Apparently cutting Social Security isn’t that popular.

  162. 162
    Peale says:

    @Brachiator: Yeah. I don’t quite see the draw. He’s really pissed off Democrat Latino voters with the “speak English” comments. While I see young whites drawn to him, I don’t see them drawn to him in numbers higher than they were to Romney. All you have to do is mention that he admires John Bolton’s foreign policy ideas and the progressives who may be tempted to give him a pass because Hillary too hawkish aren’t gonna go anywhere. (Well, maybe they will. Progressives seem to jump through hoops sometimes to equate Republicans and Democrats, but come on. Hillary looks like a great yogi of contemplative peace when compared to Bolton).

  163. 163
    Kropadope says:

    @goblue72:

    (while Governor, he passed the country’s only cap-and-trade system) and was generally not a culture war firebrand.

    Unfamiliar with the Northeast’s regional greenhouse gas initiative?

    Trump’s policy positions do not overlap in the Venn diagram of voter preferences with Democratic voters – and I would suspect do not overlap much with the voter preferences of any Independent registered voters.

    Most of his supporters I know are infrequent voters who care very little about his actual positions and more about his (purported) straight-talking reputation.

  164. 164
    Peale says:

    @Kay: Do you want to recruit Buddy Roemer for another run?

  165. 165
    Kropadope says:

    @srv:

    Trump is the new Teddy Roosevelt, except not having to run third party in 1912.

    Umm, Bernie Sanders is way closer to TR in so many ways than Trump is. Teddy Roosevelt; famous trust buster, environmentalist, progenitor of the regulatory state, early opponent to racism; is nothing like Trump.

  166. 166
    WaterGirl says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: I’m not saying it’s the whole deal.

    But I spent 20 minutes this morning talking to someone who leans pretty strongly republican, and he is liking Bernie a lot – specifically because he feels Bernie can be trusted and says what he really thinks. He also likes Biden for similar reasons. Sadly, he is liking the crazy Ben Carson, because he’s not a typical politician.

    I think people are really fed up this time and will vote much more on perceived authenticity than in the typical election.

  167. 167

    @srv:

    Trump is the new Teddy Roosevelt, except not having to run third party in 1912.

    And the part about having been a two term president.

  168. 168
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @WaterGirl: I think people are really fed up this time and will vote

    Would it be too pedantic to point out that the actual election is over a year away.?

  169. 169
    WaterGirl says:

    @Amir Khalid: Glad to hear you are on a stable path with your health!

    Since when do potential candidates have an obligation not to run because it would weaken another candidate in the race? That makes no sense to me unless you buy into the “It’s Clinton’s turn” or “Hillary is inevitable”. Hillary weakens Bernie; Bernie weakens Hillary.

    Since there is, for me, no Obama-like candidate in this election that I am behind 100%, I want a serious competition between serious candidates, and I think Bernie, Hillary and Biden would make a great contested primary.

    Full disclosure: I don’t trust Hillary or like her too hawkish foreign policy, so I am probably more sensitive to comments that suggest that we wouldn’t want to do anything to upset Hillary’s path to the nomination. For me, those kinds of comments are like the red flag to the bull.

    edited

  170. 170
    WaterGirl says:

    @Gin & Tonic: I’m talking about the primaries, and Iowa is less than 3 months away. Right?

  171. 171
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @FlipYrWhig: That’s very scary that he thinks that way. We all know what the Democratic white populist roots stands for: pro-slavery/anti-black politics.

    Please go away, Webb. You’ve served your purpose.

  172. 172

    @WaterGirl: Caucuses are early February.

  173. 173
    mclaren says:

    Maybe Biden will jump in and keep the debate field to a tidy five…

    Because the Democrats desperately need someone running for president who is eager to perpetuate endless unwinnable foreign wars.

    Joe Biden on the Don Imus show, 8/17/2006:
    “We’ve got one last shot here to separate these parties [in the Iraq civil war], and you have to do it politically.”

    Joe Biden, Fox News, 11/21/2005: (Should we leave Iraq right now?)
    “Not immediately, no. I can understand Jack’s frustration. This is a guy who has concluded that so far we’ve handled this effort incompetently, but it seems to me that we have one last shot at getting this right.”

    Joe Biden, Charlie Rose show, 21 June 2005:
    “I personally think we should not set an exit date. I personally think we should take one last shot at trying to do this the right way. I think it still can be done, although more difficult.”

    Joe Biden, Face the Nation, 6/19/2004:
    “We need time. There’s one last shot at getting this right in Iraq.”

    Joe Biden, Hardball, 24 May 2004:
    “We’ve made significant mistakes. Our one last shot to get this right, unite the world, convince the Iraqi people that this is not just a U.S. occupation, is June 30.”

    Joe Biden, 11/7/2003:
    “I am convinced we have one last shot at bringing the world into Iraq,” said Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr. of Delaware, the senior Democrat on the Foreign Relations Committee. “We must do everything in our power to seize it.”

  174. 174
    goblue72 says:

    @Kropadope: Thank you for the reminder. I had forgotten about the Northeast initiative. Its a more limited carbon reduction scheme as it only applies to power plants in those states, where California’s is recognized as much more comprehensive system that not only applies to power generators, but to large industrial plants and fuel distributors as well – so it sticks in my head. Though I see that the RGGI is looking to expand to mimic California’s system by including fuels in the coverage, which if it gets on par with the coverage of California’s system would be a big deal, depending on the GHG reduction targets. AB 32 targets a 25% reduction in GHG emissions by 2020. I don’t know what the RGGI is targeting.

    As for Trump voters, the polling is pretty clear. He’s drawing from Republican voters – that is, voters who would vote Republican, not necessarily just those registered Republican. As I noted, other recent spoiler type candidates (Perot, Arnold), pulled from Independent leaners on both sides (Perot) or Independent Democratic leaners (Arnold). Trump is only cannibalizing his own party, which is why Hillary matches up well with him – or any Democrat for that matter.

  175. 175
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Elizabelle: I believe British Columbia is not as cold as the rest of Canada (never been there though). I’ve heard it’s beautiful over there.

  176. 176
    WaterGirl says:

    @Iowa Old Lady: I guess I assumed they were like in 2008, when the Iowa caucus was the first week in January. They are a month later this time? Interesting.

  177. 177
    mclaren says:

    @maya:

    Maybe Zell Miller could fill in for Webb.

    Ouch. Now that’s what I call a burn.

  178. 178
    mclaren says:

    @Brachiator:

    I can understand why Biden might want to run.

    Sure. America needs more asset forfeiture laws, more no-knock warrants, more botched drug raids on the wrong house, more unwinnable foreign wars, more militarized policing, more people in prison. We don’t have enough of that, as Joe Biden is eager to remind us every chance he gets.

    Mr. President, you say you want a war on drugs, but if that’s what you want we need another D-Day. Instead you’re giving us another Vietnam–a limited war fought on the cheap, financed on the sly, with no clear objectives, and ultimately destined for stalemate and human tragedy” — Joe Biden on the senate floor, referring to president George H. W. Bush, 1990

  179. 179

    @WaterGirl: As I recall, they were originally scheduled in February in 2008 too, but various states moved their primaries forward, and Iowa responded. Maybe it was NH? I can’t remember. They could be moved this time too, I suppose, but there’s no sign of that.

  180. 180
    cckids says:

    @Elizabelle: I’m very much getting the feeling that Webb is looking for a speaker’s spot at the Republican convention. And f*ck him for it.

  181. 181
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @D58826: it’s worse than that. He got only 28 Republican votes. Not 58. Twenty-eight. Eight of whom are gone. And he needs 30 Republican votes this time.

  182. 182
    mclaren says:

    @D58826:

    Somewhat OT but CBS is reporting on the wingnut caucus’s list of hostages for the debt ceiling
    1. 3.8 trillion in cuts from mandatory programs like social security and medicare over the next decade
    2.freeze all regulations until after the next president takes office
    3. the senate has to change it’s filibuster rules on the initial procedural vote on spending bills.

    Great! The more extreme their demands, the more savage the cuts in social security and medicare the House Freedom Caucus requires, the worse it will go for them.

    Keep it up. They may talk themselves out of a majority in the House if they keep going. (Hey, we can always hope…)

  183. 183
    Jeffro says:

    @RaflW:

    this whole Biden thing seems media-created. Are Biden fans feeding it? I’m sure they are. Maybe even Ol’ Joe is to some extent. But it has always read to me as a bored media hoping for a real fight.

    If by ‘Biden fans’ you mean the current VP’s staff and his inner circle of advisers, yes, that’s who’s feeding it. I’m sure they see themselves as future White House staff, but the reality is that when it comes to funding, endorsements, campaigns already going full steam…Joe has none of that and it’s coming to the end of October here.

    These staffers and other folks must have quite the winning scenario cooked up for Joe, ’cause I’m sure not seeing it.

  184. 184
    Origuy says:

    @Patricia Kayden: Vancouver and Victoria have about the same climate as Seattle. Once you get inland, though, it’s more sub-Arctic.

  185. 185
    Kay says:

    @Peale:

    The debates are so long. You need comic relief.

    I find O’Malley’s voice annoying. There’s something sing-songy about it that doesn’t sound natural. I need a distraction from that.

  186. 186

    @Mandalay:

    I’m wondering if the fact that the dead guy had a valid permit for his concealed weapon will make any difference to a judge or jury. I’m guessing not, because blackity-black-black, but I would like to be surprised for once.

    And, yeah, that story stinks to high heaven (really, the victim only decides to try and kill you *after* you say you’re a cop?) The fact that the cop didn’t radio in what he was doing before he left his post *without permission* and called 911 from his personal cell phone makes him look like a complete moron who didn’t know how to do his job *at best.*

  187. 187
    mclaren says:

    @goblue72:

    Trump’s policy positions do not overlap in the Venn diagram of voter preferences with Democratic voters – and I would suspect do not overlap much with the voter preferences of any Independent registered voters.

    Wait a minute — Trump says he’s against more foreign wars, he’s against cuts to social security and medicare, he’s in favor of increasing taxes on the rich, he’s in favor of legislation preventing U.S. corporations from shipping jobs overseas… How is that not in line with Democratic voters?

    Donald Trump’s Anti-Iraq War Position Wasn’t As Prophetic As He Thinks,, Huffington Post, 14 September 2015.

    Donald Trump Rails Against Cutting Social Security, Medicare During GOP Summit, Mediaite.com, 18 April 2015.

    Donald Trump: Tax the rich more, CNN Money, 27 August 2015.

    Donald Trump wants to protect U.S. auto jobs by taxing cars and auto parts that are made at Mexican plants, CNN Money, 24 August 2015.

    Do you people even bother to listen to what the candidates say?

    How are those not Democratic positions?

  188. 188
    Brachiator says:

    @Mnemosyne (tablet):

    I’m wondering if the fact that the dead guy had a valid permit for his concealed weapon will make any difference to a judge or jury.

    No.

    People like KFI radio host Bill Handel lays out the authority worshiper’s argument fairly well.

    Cops have a tough time out on the streets. A cop can’t afford to make a mistake. What if the cop truly felt his life was in danger?

    Anyone killed by the cop is collateral damage in the larger “war on crime.”

  189. 189
    mclaren says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Would it be too pedantic to point out that the actual election is over a year away?

    Yes, exactly, At this point in the 2008 presidential election cycle the two top-polling candidates were Rudy Giulinai and Hillary Clinton. Neither wound up as the nominee.

    Plus, we need to remember that in a year, a lot can happen. Suppose there’s another recession? If the House Republicans are perceived as having caused it, that could cause a tectonic upheaval and possibly even swing the House and the senate back to Democratic control.

  190. 190
    sacrablue says:

    I think Webb wants to be Trump’s VP choice.

  191. 191
    mclaren says:

    @Kay:

    I find O’Malley’s voice annoying. There’s something sing-songy about it that doesn’t sound natural. I need a distraction from that.

    Oh, c’mon, Kay! You’re better than that. The annoying thing about O’Malley isn’t his voice, it’s the fact that he juked the stats in Balitmore, forcing the police commissioner to reduce rapes to assaults, assaults to misdemeanor vagrancy, drug collars to loitering busts, and so on — all to artificially reduce the crime stats and make is look as though crime was going down in urban Baltimore.

    That kind of gross dishonesty makes O’Malley totally toxic. If he’ll do that to get re-elected as Mayor, what the hell will he do as president? Secretly convince the North Vietnamese to prolong the war so he can get elected? (Oh, no…wait — that was Richard Nixon in 1968.) Offer an illegal arms-for-hostages deal? (Oh, no…wait — that was Ronald Reagan in 1987.) Lie America into an illegal war of aggression in Iraq? (Oh, no…wait — that was George W. Bush in 2003.)

    You get the idea.

    See Mr. O’Malley’s Bad Math, David Simon, 3 September 2015.

  192. 192
    goblue72 says:

    @mclaren: None of the GOP candidates are pushing cuts to Social Security or Medicare in any serious way. And Trump’s “tax cuts for the rich” lasted about a week until he announced his tax plan which turned out to be Jeb’s tax plan but even bigger tax cuts for the rich.

    So yes, I listen to what the candidates are saying. Though I do realize you are a bit of concern troll, so I get it.

  193. 193

    @Brachiator:

    In any other job, the fact that the guy broke multiple job regulations and then killed someone would be grounds for summary dismissal, but not in our current climate where cops can do no wrong, even when they clearly broke *their own rules.*

  194. 194
    gvg says:

    @mclaren: Trumps actual proposed tax policy wasn’t anything like he described it remember. It was pro rich people and hurt the poor through eliminating the EIC and the middle class through eliminating mortgage interest deduction. I will not forget that he lied about what he wanted to do and that means I don’t think any of us know what he will do. That is not authentic and I am not willing to just roll the dice on what we will get.
    I will grant you most people haven’t caught on to that yet. I think they will

  195. 195
    Brachiator says:

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone):

    In any other job, the fact that the guy broke multiple job regulations and then killed someone would be grounds for summary dismissal, but not in our current climate where cops can do no wrong, even when they clearly broke *their own rules.*

    To some, being a cop is not like any other job. That’s part of the problem.

    I also don’t know how seriously the police will change and enforce rules to reduce the chance that an innocent person will be killed in error.

  196. 196
    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet says:

    @RaflW:

    You don’t need to care at all. Media types are obsessed with process stories. They don’t care about the policies of who is up, who is down, or who got elected. Just the daily activities of the campaigns.

    I heard a bit of a show on the radio over the weekend, “On the Media” from WNYC, where some reporter guy who has covered Bernie for ages said that Bernie thinks that the job of the press is to cover what a candidate says and what policies he advocates. The reporter said (roughly), “That isn’t news. It’s not news when Bernie advocates for a living wage for the 87th time, or advocates for policy X again. What’s news is when he says something new…”

    I’ll bet a lot of the press feels that way. “Well I’ve heard this eleventy billion times, it’s not new.” Trouble is, of course, is that covering things this way is terribly counterproductive if the job of the free press is to inform the public.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  197. 197
    misterpuff says:

    Do we really need Appalachia?

    Jim Webb feel free to run for Presidency of Confederacy.

  198. 198
    mclaren says:

    @gvg:

    Trumps actual proposed tax policy wasn’t anything like he described it remember. (..)
    I will grant you most people haven’t caught on to that yet. I think they will.

    Boy, I sure hope so. The voters didn’t catch on with Dubya in 2000 and they never caught in with Reagan in 1980 and 1984.

    And BTW, noticing that Trump is a particularly smooth liar isn’t being a “concern troll.” It’s noticing the amazing contrast between Romney (who was an amazingly bad liar) and Trump (who really pulls it off well).

    I would also seriously like the DNC to come up with some credible plan to take back the individual states and governorships for Democrats. Debbie Wasserman Scultz seems to think it’s a good political strategy to stick her fingers in her ears about the state-level Repub takeover and shout NEENER NEENER NEENER, I CAN’T HEAR YOU!

    Back in the Bill Clinton days, the Demo party leadership had a bad strategy for taking back the states and governorships (triangulation), but at least it was a strategy. I’m hearing nothing from DWS.

  199. 199
    Amir Khalid says:

    @WaterGirl:
    Joe won’t necessarily be any less hawkish or more trustworthy than Hillary; As many commenters have noted here, he’s held a number of positions as a Senator that Democratic voters would find questionable. If Joe gets in the race this close to the deadlines, he’ll have a lot of work to do under severe time constraints — raising funds, building his campaign org, lining up support — to catch up to Hillary and Bernie.

  200. 200
    Cervantes says:

    Jim Webb Is Dropping Out

    Dropping out of what?

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