Tuesday Morning Open Thread

Nice forwardable summary from Paul Waldman, in the Washington Post, “The tide turns against the Benghazi committee“:

Could this be the time when Benghazi finally turned from a liability to an asset for Hillary Clinton? If so, it’ll be because the issue has now become less about what the select committee Republicans set up to investigate the matter has found, and more about the committee itself.

Perhaps this would have happened even if House Majority Leader Rep. Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) hadn’t admitted two weeks ago what everyone already knew, that the driving purpose of the select committee was to harm Hillary Clinton’s political prospects. That one statement has had a remarkable political impact, torpedoing McCarthy’s bid to become speaker of the House, giving Clinton the opportunity to start attacking the committee in ads, and apparently making lots of people in the press decide that the time has finally come to start taking a serious look at what this committee has been doing for the last 17 months.

No news outlet in America has been more fervent in its pursuit of Hillary Clinton than the New York Times, but take a look at this article on their front page [Monday], about how the select committee has all but abandoned Benghazi to focus almost entirely on trying to find something damaging on Hillary Clinton…

When John Boehner created this committee a year and a half ago, he was insistent that there was nothing partisan about it, and pointed to the appointment of Gowdy, a former prosecutor, as proof that the investigation would be serious and substantive. I was skeptical at the time about how much sober professionalism Gowdy would bring to the proceedings — his principal qualification seemed to be an eagerness to shout angrily at witnesses during hearings — and nothing that has happened since has proved me wrong…

When you’ve lost Jake Tapper...

***********
Apart from That Event in Las Vegas, what’s on the agenda for the day?

262 replies
  1. 1
    Marc says:

    Kittens for me. Of course, it’s been kittens for a while. Once in a while I look at Miri, and say; “They’re your kids.” Then I realize why parents say a variation of that to each other. ;)

  2. 2
    cmorenc says:

    @Annie Laurie: (quoting an excerpt from the Waldman Article in the Washington Post):

    No news outlet in America has been more fervent in its pursuit of Hillary Clinton than the New York Times

    Um…rarely does Fox News pass up an opportunity to bring on some purported legal analyst to declare that the latest incremental developments in the email server “scandal” indicates that Hillary Clinton is ever-more legally in danger of FELONY indictment for: a) revealing classified information; b) lying to attempt to cover up damaging details about the server. And the increments Fox News treats as important new damaging information need only be dust-mote size to warrant a lengthy pejorative segment focusing on said detail(s) as if instead an elephant had been found hidden in a closet where Hillary didn’t expect it to ever be findable. The NYT might also be out to “get” Hillary Clinton as well, but more by occasional drips of misleadingly presented information rather than the blatantly prosecutorial campaign Fox News is conducting.

    OK, so maybe Waldman dismisses Fox “News” as not being a bona fide “news outlet”, but a GOP propaganda operation – and he’d be right to consider it such.

  3. 3
    Zinsky says:

    The Dirty Tricks Party is just doing what the do best – investigate rather than legislate. They have no understanding of governance, they only want to talk about guns (read, penis substitute) and loot the public purse for their rich criminal friends.

  4. 4

    Whether or not I watch tonight’s Democratic debate depends entirely on whether or not I can find CNN on my cable feed. I can’t remember the last time I watched it on purpose.

  5. 5
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Mustang Bobby: I’ve got to do that as well, when I had cable(I’ve got satellite now) I’d check their website.

  6. 6
    Gin & Tonic says:

    Up way too early, having to catch a plane. Don’t much care for pre-dawn.

  7. 7
    MomSense says:

    Home today. Cold went from bad to worse. I’ll probably stick with Netflix today as all the nooz channlels will be asinine pre-debate speculation.

  8. 8
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Zinsky:
    On this evidence — a year and a half gone, millions of dollars spent, no result — one couldn’t say investigating was what the Republican party did best.

  9. 9

    @Gin & Tonic: But once you catch the plane, what will you do with it? Safe travels, G&T.

  10. 10
    amk says:

    @Zinsky:

    just doing what the do best – investigate

    nope, they are not good it either, they suck in all aspects and all levels. but they are good at conning their foolish voters into getting them elected.

  11. 11
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA: The intertubes tell me CNN is channel 202 on DirecTV.

  12. 12
    NotMax says:

    @Mustang Bobby

    Ever see this oddity at any of your auto shows?

  13. 13
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    I’m having fun with my new camera, the OIS(optical image stabilization) is really nice. Took some long exposure shots braced on a light post tonight and got some clear shots that would have had a bunch of shake with my old camera. I really need to get the 50mm-200mm lens.

  14. 14
  15. 15
  16. 16
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Here’s a pic from our local outdoor mall taken handheld at 1/10sec.

  17. 17
  18. 18
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @raven: Very swanky and classsssie, they have snow falling during Christmastime.

    ETA: It can be 80 degrees during the day and twice a night they have snow falling for 5 minutes.

  19. 19
    raven says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Hopefully ya’lls heat wave will subside by then!

  20. 20

    @NotMax: No, but I’ve seen photos of it. Never before heard it start up.

    I rode in the Chrysler Turbine in 1963 when they were showing it around the country. It was cool to look at and sounded like a giant Electrolux vacuum cleaner. The body was by Ghia although the styling was closer to the 1961-63 Thunderbird.

  21. 21
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @raven: We have two storms coming late this week and it should be cooler, my thermometer showed 120 degrees yesterday(it’s under an eave with direct sun). I got a little rain on my walk tonight.

  22. 22
    Baud says:

    @raven:

    How’s the dog?

  23. 23
    Matt McIrvin says:

    I don’t think Whitewater ever became an asset to the Clintons, even before Ms. Lewinsky popped up, and it had long since lost any content-based relevance by that point.

  24. 24
    PaulW says:

    Spurrier retiring and the Gators freshman QB Grier suspended for a year for PED use. There’s a lot of Floridians wearing black today.

    Also, Democratic debate = drinking game!

    Please drink and vote responsibly.

  25. 25
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @PaulW: Out here the big news was Sark getting canned. They say he’s in rehab. Though I’m a Bruin and hate U$C, I hope rehab works for him.

  26. 26
    Kay says:

    It’s good that Jake Tapper is following the story of the fake-investigation since Jake Tapper is basically solely responsible for pushing the idea that there was wrongdoing, although he had absolutely nothing to back that up.

    Jake Tapper promoted the lie that his interview with Susan Rice indicated…something or other… when in fact nothing Rice said indicated anything- she spouted boilerplate “diplomat” and then he added all kinds of secret meaning to her words.

    Republicans have to keep up this charade because they assured their base there was a giant scandal here, but Jake Tapper was really central to adding legitimacy to that effort. In fact, I’m not sure he should report on it at all, since he was such a central player. He should probably be testifying for the prosecution at the fake-hearing.

  27. 27
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @raven: Nice window crank there buddy. ;-)

  28. 28
    Raven says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I should have cropped it! The vanity is nice. We used an old chest of drawers, stripped and painted with a light green marble (I think) top.

  29. 29
    Raven says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: The hardi went up in one day after languishing all summer! https://flic.kr/p/zyWzoS

  30. 30
    Baud says:

    @Kay:

    He should probably be testifying for the prosecution at the fake-hearing.

    His job is to do that through his reporting.

  31. 31
    Kay says:

    about how the select committee has all but abandoned Benghazi to focus almost entirely on trying to find something damaging on Hillary Clinton…

    I don’t see that as such a big switch, myself, since it was clear at the outset of this “scandal” that it was about finding something damaging about Obama. Obama’s on the way out so they’re switching to (just) Clinton instead of Obama/Clinton.

    They should bring Susan Rice back. She was the “smoking gun”. I have no idea why since she said absolutely nothing but they all decided her bland, carefully composed statement had huge and evil implications.

  32. 32
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Raven: Wow. That almost looks like a house. :-) Looks really good, well designed from an architectural pov.

    @Raven: It is all but impossible to get a good picture of a normal bathroom. I’ve seen vanities like that and they look good. when I finally get around to our bath I may do something similar. Or not. It’s a ways off just yet.

  33. 33
    Kay says:

    @Baud:

    He was actually an obstacle to a real investigation. There could have been something there- I don’t know and it will remain forever a mystery because they all went chasing after Jake Tapper’s “Susan Rice is the smoking gun, Grassy Knoll Theory” so the whole thing went off the rails. It became ABOUT whether the Obama Administration was putting political spin on it, which isn’t a crime and doesn’t matter, at all.

    If I commit a huge crime I want Jake Tapper as the investigator. He’d be busy checking to see if my driver’s license was expired while I drove the get-away car. “What is your BIRTHDATE?!”

  34. 34
    Baud says:

    @Kay:

    If I commit a huge crime I want Jake Tapper as the investigator.

    Or the victim.

  35. 35
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    Uh-oh.

    Iran’s conservative-dominated parliament has endorsed the landmark nuclear agreement struck earlier this year, clearing the last hurdle before both sides begin work to implement it next week.

    Rouhani came to power in 2013 promising greater transparency over Iran’s nuclear programme and vowed to bring what he repeatedly described as a cruel sanctions regime to an end. If Tehran and its negotiating partners, the P5+1 group (US, UK, France, Germany, China and Russia) implement the agreement fully, it will be a huge victory for both sides in resolving one of the world’s most complicated crises peacefully and through diplomatic means.

    No tanks, no aircraft carriers, no cruise missiles or smart bombs. What we need is a Real Man ™ in the Oval Office.

  36. 36
    Baud says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    What happened with that? Did Congress even bother to vote on it?

  37. 37
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Baud: The Dems in the Senate successfully filibustered it. While Khameni still hasn’t given it his full and public blessing, the thinking is things would never have progressed this far if he wouldn’t allow it. Looks like it’s a go from all sides now.

  38. 38
    raven says:

    @Baud: We pick her up at 9:30. They said she was doing fine and that it was a complete tear of the ACL. thx

  39. 39
    Baud says:

    The candidates onstage will be former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders, former Maryland Gov. Martin O’Malley, former Virginia Sen. Jim Webb, and former Rhode Island Gov. Lincoln Chafee. Theoretically, Joe Biden could still show up if he decided to run at any time today.

    I can see him walking onstage just as the debate is about to begin shouting “I brought the beer!”

  40. 40
    Kay says:

    @Baud:

    He and Obama have a weirdly personal animosity. First there was the “Obama smokes cigarettes!” bombshell and then this, which still makes me laugh:

    THE PRESIDENT: I answered the question, Chuck, which is that we don’t yet know how this is going to play out.
    Jake Tapper.
    Q Thank you, Mr. President. Before I ask my question, I’m wondering if you could actually answer David’s. Is the public plan non-negotiable?
    THE PRESIDENT: That’s your question. (Laughter.)
    Q Well, you didn’t answer —
    THE PRESIDENT: You think you’re going to — are you the ombudsman for the White House press corps? (Laughter.) What’s your — is that your question? (Laughter.)

    It just doesn’t matter if the White House tried to put a spin on Benghazi or prepared a statement that was incomplete. That fits with their story- they didn’t know all the facts. It’s not a contradiction. Tapper parses words like the lawyer on the Simpsons- like if he repeats them with enough dramatic intonation they’ll mean something. Susan Rice talks like a diplomat, carefully, which isn’t surprising because she is a diplomat.

  41. 41
  42. 42
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Kay: I love the fact that President Obama placed Rice in a cushy position and didn’t pay any attention to the Republican witch hunt against her (led by McCain and Graham).

    Hope tonight the Democratic debate actually gets into important policy discussions. I suppose this is O’Malley’s chance to shine although I cannot imagine him moving up much in the polls.

  43. 43
  44. 44
    Baud says:

    I wanted you all to be the first to know: I will no longer be appearing nude in Playboy.

  45. 45
    Baud says:

    @Kay:

    Tapper parses words like the lawyer on the Simpsons- like if he repeats them with enough dramatic intonation they’ll mean something.

    :-)

  46. 46
    MattF says:

    @Baud: I’ve sent my condolences to the International Brotherhood of Airbrushers.

  47. 47
    Kay says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    I agree that it’s a great shot for O’Malley. He’s really aggressive and competitive (which is fine- I don’t mean it as an insult) so he’ll probably have to be careful he doesn’t go too far. He could alienate Clinton supporters if he goes after her too hard. Primaries are tricky because they always have to remember there will come a time when the winner will be asking for the other candidates supporters to vote for him or her. Sanders takes the high road so O’Malley is good for him. O’Malley can (and will) do all his dirty work. I kind of admire people who really embrace the underdog role instead of complaining, and O’Malley does that.

    I’m just glad they’re finally debating. I am tired of hearing about Ben Carson and his insane opinions, and I got sick of Donald Trump after 2 weeks.

  48. 48
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Baud: So it’s safe to subscribe again?

  49. 49
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @MattF: Porn Valley out here still has a local.

  50. 50
    Baud says:

    @Kay:

    I agree. O’Malley may not be the best choice in the end but he really shouldn’t be mired in the cellar.

  51. 51
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Baud: I blame Obama.

  52. 52
    Baud says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    It appears that Playboy was thinking that they could boost subscribership by ending nude photos. Internet pron has decimated their numbers.

  53. 53
    WereBear says:

    @Baud: Well, that’s a tricky move anyway… there’s always the leaked, unflattering, shots to worry about.

    The “just checking the lighting” ones.

    Though I did like the combo of Baud!-Baud’s Ass!

  54. 54
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @MattF: Thanx. That put an all day smile on my face.

  55. 55
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    “We’re going to need a lot of dildos.”

    I know everyone has already heard about this, but I’m still laughing.

  56. 56
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Baud: I know about the problems in the Porn industry, I live out in Porn Valley. When I moved in here, I noticed a company with office a block over with a name that suggested to me they were in the industry. Yup, a video distributer.

  57. 57
    SFAW says:

    @Baud:

    I suppose next you’ll be telling us that you will no longer appear on Laugh-In. Will your perfidy never end?

  58. 58
    Chris says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Yeah, I love that too. Rice’s SecState chances were screwed for no reason but Congressional Republicans trying to get her boss and settling for her instead. Obama making her NSA was a pointed middle finger to them, and sign to her that he still valued her service.

  59. 59
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @SFAW: No worries, Baud will still be on HeeHaw.

  60. 60
    Tommy says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I had not read this story. LOL funny.

  61. 61
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Baud: Are the lad magazines they’re competing with, and would even more closely resemble, actually doing well at all?

  62. 62
    Thoughtful Today says:

    Trevor Noah last night was hilarious talking about ‘That Event in Las Vegas’.

    http://www.hulu.com/the-daily-.....revor-noah

  63. 63
    SomeDude says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Do you know if Baud will have a cameo on Petticoat Junction?

  64. 64
    Tom says:

    @Baud:

    Lionel Hutz: Hutz is the name, Mr. Simpson. Lionel Hutz, attorney-at-law. Here’s my card. It turns into a sponge when you put it in water.
    Homer: Ooh, classy.

  65. 65
    rikyrah says:

    Good Morning, Everyone :)

  66. 66
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @SomeDude: Nope, Green Acres.

  67. 67
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Thoughtful Today: I’ve been pleasantly surprised with young Trevor.

  68. 68
    beltane says:

    The Republican party has eschewed Hayekian modesty and this has made David Brooks sad. Very, very sad. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10.....&_r=1

    I’m sure is grieving period will be a brief one. Tomorrow he will say the Democrats are even worse.

  69. 69
    debbie says:

    @beltane:

    I can’t stop laughing:

    By traditional definitions, conservatism stands for intellectual humility, a belief in steady, incremental change, a preference for reform rather than revolution, a respect for hierarchy, precedence, balance and order, and a tone of voice that is prudent, measured and responsible.

    Even back in the days of William F. Buckley, this was in no way true.

  70. 70
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Tom: I like this bit from when Lionel Hutz was a real estate agent.

  71. 71
    ThresherK says:

    @Amir Khalid: Oh, they investigated just fine, it’s that they didn’t come up with squat.

    I think they’ve reduced it to a Zen thing, like where a guy can have a great day fishing but not catch anything, or a restaurant which brags about its “USDA Inspected” (not “Inspected and Approved”) beef.

  72. 72
    MattF says:

    @beltane: Well. Brooks fails the basic test of applying these admirable principles to himself. The radicals ignore him, and they’re right about that.

  73. 73
    ThresherK says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: My brother-in-law is a prof there. We’ll have to ask him about it.

  74. 74
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @debbie: Brooks is thinking about Edmund Burke. And even then, Mary Wollstonecraft zinged him for being overly emotional.

  75. 75
    beltane says:

    @debbie: It has not been true going back as far as the earliest representative governments. David Brooks is stealing the mantle of “mushy center-left” and claiming it for the Right. Intellectual dishonesty goes deep with Mr. Brooks.

  76. 76
    rikyrah says:

    A Void Only Joe Biden Can Fill

    Spandan Chakrabarti | October 12, 2015

    For a while now, we have had some fun watching the clown show that is known as the Republican presidential primary. But with tomorrow’s first Democratic primary debate coming up, things on our side are heating up, and the media is abuzz with talk of how Hillary Clinton will defend against Bernie Sanders – and whether, pundits say with time running out – Joe Biden will enter the race.

    Joe Biden is already polling in third place, and he hasn’t even declared. The organizers of Tuesday night’s debate are even setting aside a podium for him in case he makes a last-minute decision.

    I for one hope that podium gets filled.

    The CBS polling that has Biden rounding up the top three candidates for the Democratic nomination reveals critical voids only Joe Biden can fill. The Vice President is better positioned in the general election than either Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders (who has no chance in the general if Republicans can get their act together even a little bit). Biden is the only person polled in either party who crosses the 50% mark among all voters on all four areas polled: leadership, trust, experience and empathy.

    Except for “strong leadership qualities” – which, among the right wing has come to mean the biggest phallic-jerker – where Trump has an edge, Joe Biden also beats every other top-polling candidate, Democratic and Republican, in every other category of presidential qualities among the American electorate at large.

    Biden and Clinton do cross the critical threshold of 50% on leadership, however, with Biden at 55% and Clinton at 53%. Voters don’t see the man planning to podium pound his way to the White House as a leader despite his supporters’ insistence that he’d get everything done by the power of sheer will, ranking him near the bottom of the pack at 39%.

    http://www.thepeoplesview.net/.....n-can-fill

  77. 77
    Betty Cracker says:

    @PaulW: I’m worried about Spurrier’s health. It seems out of character for him to quit in the middle of the season. I don’t think South Carolina pressured him to leave; they’re having a shitty year, but he’s far and away the best coach they’ve ever had, and support for him seems to have been strong in Columbia despite their troubles.

    It’ll be interesting to see how the Gators respond to the loss of Grier. They’re such a young team, and no one expected them to be doing so well anyway, and now this — with LSU looming. If such a thing had to happen, they’re actually in a better position than many to weather it since Harris has big game experience and was contending for the starting role anyway.

  78. 78
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @rikyrah:

    Joe Biden is already polling in third place, and he hasn’t even declared.

    Is this supposed to be impressive?

  79. 79
    rikyrah says:

    Janet Jackson Makes History With Seventh #1 Album
    Oct 12, 2015

    Janet Jackson is no stranger to chart-topping success but it must be especially sweet with Unbreakable, her first release since 2008’s Discipline. The release is her 7th #1 album release but it comes with another distinction as well. Jackson is only the third artist to have a number one album release in three different decades.

    Billboard.com reports:

    The Billboard 200 chart ranks the most popular albums of the week based on multi-metric consumption, which includes traditional album sales, track equivalent albums (TEA) and streaming equivalent albums (SEA). The new Oct. 24-dated chart (where Jackson is No. 1) will be posted in full to Billboard’s Web sites on Tuesday, Oct. 13.

    Unbreakable — which was released on Oct. 2 — arrives atop the chart with 116,000 equivalent album units earned in the week ending Oct. 8, according to Nielsen Music. Of that sum, the set sold 109,000 in pure album sales.

    http://blackamericaweb.com/201.....h-1-album/

  80. 80
    Chris says:

    @debbie:

    Yeah, this is complete bullshit.

    Unless they’re talking small-C conservatism, conservatism as temperament rather than political philosophy.

    Otherwise, the “superior moral justification for selfishness” definition describes them equally well in every era.

  81. 81
    Betty Cracker says:

    @rikyrah: The reason Biden is polling high is because he’s not in the race. Clinton’s numbers were sky-high before she launched her campaign. If Biden jumps in, the slime cannon will be aimed at him too, and his numbers will fall.

  82. 82
    Cervantes says:

    @Baud:

    I notice that your announcement mentions Playboy but not Playgirl.

  83. 83
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @rikyrah: Hillary polled really well before she was a candidate too.

    ETA: Dang it, Betty got there first.

  84. 84
    Thoughtful Today says:

    Of course the really big question for today is … what are the Drinking Game Rules for ‘That Event in Las Vegas’?

  85. 85
    Cervantes says:

    Via @rikyrah:

    Joe Biden is already polling in third place, and he hasn’t even declared.

    I do wonder how JFK would do if he were included in these polls.

  86. 86
    Felonius Monk says:

    @Baud: Will you still be campaigning nude or just with a fig leaf?

  87. 87
    rikyrah says:

    Hell yes, it’s too young to suspend a student
    Always trying to CRIMINALIZE BLACK CHILDREN.

    ……………………………..
    Is kindergarten too young to suspend a student?

    October 12, 2015 at 6:00 PM ET

    http://www.pbs.org/newshour/videos/#159266

  88. 88
    Gin & Tonic says:

    The full report of the Dutch Safety Board on the MH17 downing is here (in English.) No real surprise to anyone who understood anything, they conclude it was brought down by a Russian-made Buk anti-aircraft missile.

  89. 89
    beltane says:

    @Cervantes: I recently read there was a poll out showing Michael Dukakis outperforming the candidates who are in the single digits. Zombie JFK could well be the frontrunner in this environment.

  90. 90
    Cervantes says:

    @rikyrah:

    Always trying to CRIMINALIZE BLACK CHILDREN.

    Not only repulsive but heart-breaking.

    We must find a way to do better by these children.

  91. 91
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Cervantes: What? You want administrators to do their jobs? You must be some kind of commie!

  92. 92
    Chris says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    The main quote I associate with Edmund Burke is his little screed about the execution of Queen Marie Antoinette of France. He describes her in a way reminiscent of the Village’s “Baby’s Got Blue Eyes” swooning over Paul Ryan (or Sarah Starburts Palin or whatever crush they have at the moment) and follows up with a screed about the death of chivalry, then announces the end of civilization and reaches for the fainting couch.

    That quote goes a long way towards convincing me that conservatives have always been the same as they are now, even in their supposed golden age.

  93. 93
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @beltane: They’ve also included Al Gore and John Kerry in some polls as well.

  94. 94
    Jeffro says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    The reason Biden is polling high is because he’s not in the race. Clinton’s numbers were sky-high before she launched her campaign. If Biden jumps in, the slime cannon will be aimed at him too, and his numbers will fall.

    I don’t really think that will happen. The media (and Republicans, but I partially repeat myself) would want there to be a horse race between Clinton and Biden for as long as possible, especially since it would essentially be a 3-way horse race between Clinton, Biden, and Sanders. FRACTURED DEMOCRAT PARTY makes for better headlines and serves as a nice distraction from the Klown Kar, right?

  95. 95
    celticdragonchick says:

    @Zinsky:
    I have no idea why this was put in moderation.

  96. 96
    Paul in KY says:

    @Betty Cracker: If your QB is roided all to Hell, it would be irresponsible not to speculate on other Gators who might have followed his lead…

  97. 97
    celticdragonchick says:

    @Zinsky:

    Moderated again…

  98. 98
    celticdragonchick says:

    Test

  99. 99
    celticdragonchick says:

    @Zinsky:
    One of the things I learned from my spouse’s forensic college work is that guns are not male genital substitutes.

    Knives (when used in a crime) are a psychological extension of the phallus (which is also why women almost never use them in a crime)

    Guns are an extension of the fist. Guns are for hitting the things you hate and are angry at. Knives are much more personal and demonstrate your bodily control of another person.

  100. 100
    Elizabelle says:

    Cokie Roberts was beyond vile on Morning Joke. She might be on Reince Priebus’s payroll. How would we know?

    Keep investigating the Clintons, because they’re not trustworthy and there is always something there. Wasn’t watching, just listening, but she might have been holding her nose too.

    The 9:00 a hour of MSNBC is pretty insane too. Will the wheels come off Hillary’s campaign tonight? Someone actually said that.

    I wish Joe Biden would lead them on a motorcade chase to the dump.

    TV’s off. Will be TCM or nothing until debate time tonight.

  101. 101
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @Elizabelle: I turned it off when I saw that “Noun verb 911” would be on.

  102. 102
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Elizabelle:

    I wish Joe Biden would lead them on a motorcade chase to the dump.

    Haha, that would be great! And I could see him doing something like that.

  103. 103
    Thoughtful Today says:

    ‘Liberal media’ = Far right-wing Republican politician Joe Scarborough.

    Thanks, msnbc. /s

  104. 104
    Cervantes says:

    @Elizabelle:

    You lost me at “Cokie.”

  105. 105
    Elizabelle says:

    Not feeling the Bern!mentum for a Bernie debate watching party tonight, but putting this up again, if anyone wants to venture over:

    Bernie Sanders debate watch party
    Neighbors Restaurant, Vienna VA (near Thoreau Middle School)

    They have red wine! (wine, beer, spirits), wifi, a Persian buffet for $15.00 (vegetarian and non-); presumably you could order off the regular menu too.

    I will be there with a laptop, maybe a pic of Tunch up for ID.

    You can be agnostic; my choices for 2016 are Bernie, Hillary, Baud, in no particular order. Just ABR. Anything but the Republican.

    Neighbor’s Restaurant (Vienna, VA)
    262 Cedar Ln SE
    Vienna, VA 22180

    8:00 to 11:00.

    Neighbor’s is 1.6 miles from the Dunn Loring Merrifield Metro. There is lots of free parking.

    RSVP (or I guess you could just show up…)

    https://secure.berniesanders.com/page/event/detail/debatewatchpartiesoctober13/4v8ky

    Yelp reviews for Neighbor’s.

  106. 106
    rikyrah says:

    In Gainesville, Ben Carson preaches return to God, war on the ‘PC police’
    October 12, 2015 | Filed in: Ben Carson, Elections – President.

    GAINESVILLE — Presidential hopeful Ben Carson told a packed Hall County megachurch this morning that he would bring God back to the forefront of American life, and he would go to war with the “PC police” to do it.

    Georgia has looked a little like New Hampshire this weekend, with the two polling leaders for the Republican presidential nomination almost bumping into each other. Donald Trump staged a rally in Norcross on Saturday afternoon, then Carson signed copies of his new book up the road in Lawrenceville on Saturday evening.

    This morning, Carson spoke to thousands at the Free Chapel in Gainesville and signed copies of A More Perfect Union, as part of a book tour not planned or staged by his campaign – but unmistakably part of his quest for the presidency:

    “A lot of people have said to me: ‘Why are you willing to get into this fray when you had such a wonderful career and reputation and you were blessed financially and you could just sit back and relax?’

    “Well, I’ll tell you why: it’s because America is worth saving. If that means getting into a war with the PC police, I’m ready to fight that war. And I hope you will join me.”

    http://politics.blog.ajc.com/2.....pc-police/

  107. 107
    Elizabelle says:

    @Cervantes: Yeah. I shoulda found the remote quicker.

  108. 108
    danielx says:

    For a dollar, who can guess the author of this commentary…..

    The House Republican caucus is close to ungovernable these days. How did this situation come about?

    This was not just the work of the Freedom Caucus or Ted Cruz or one month’s activity. The Republican Party’s capacity for effective self-governance degraded slowly, over the course of a long chain of rhetorical excesses, mental corruptions and philosophical betrayals. Basically, the party abandoned traditional conservatism for right-wing radicalism. Republicans came to see themselves as insurgents and revolutionaries, and every revolution tends toward anarchy and ends up devouring its own.

    Not wanting to keep y’all in suspense, I will reveal that it’s my man David Brooks, bemoaning The Republicans’ Incompetence Caucus in today’s NYT.

    If he hadn’t been so complicit in bringing about the situation, one could almost feel sorry for B’rer Brooks. Having to write a whole column about the implosion of the House Republican caucus, well, must be much like having to ask (out loud) “who let out that enormous, earth-shaking fart” while riding in a crowded elevator up to one of Donald Trump’s penthouses. He can’t even cover this massive mound of steaming horseshit under a nice comfy “Both Sides Do It” blanket, seeing as how the Dems don’t have any raving firebrands calling for such madness as the secession of Vermont and Massachusetts from the Union, or a single payer health care system, or a fifty percent inheritance tax, or maybe humbly requesting that a little more thought go into the process of bringing liberty and the free market system to the Middle East by way of a Hellfire missile…more’s the pity.

    If it wasn’t for the parade of Brooks columns gloating over the Triumphs of Bush or expressing the thought that after various elections, Republican Grownups Who Are Interested In Governing have regained control of the political process, you could almost – almost! – feel sorry for him. But Brooks has encouraged and embraced Teh Crazy for political advantage and votes every step of the way for the last few decades (documented by much better writers than me), so my wellspring of sympathy has done run dry.

  109. 109
    Thoughtful Today says:

    also:

    ‘Liberal media’ = “pro-establishment … NPR … commentator Cokie Roberts” … “Roberts also denigrates “special interests”–by which she usually means seniors, feminists, civil rights groups, etc.”

    http://fair.org/extra-online-a.....ie-roberts

    Thanks NPR /s

    Note that article is from 1993

  110. 110
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Jeffro:
    So you reckon the media will pump him up as an alternative to Hillary, as some of them have been doing with Bernie?

  111. 111
    Thoughtful Today says:

    lol, “Your comment is awaiting moderation.”

    What did I trigger? @Thoughtful Today:

  112. 112
    Frankensteinbeck says:

    @Baud:
    But… but Baud November 2016!

    @SFAW:
    But… but it’s Sock It To Me Time!

    @beltane:
    One of Reagan’s main techniques for mainstreaming racism again was to make it very polite. Hurting the poor (blacks) was mature responsibility, and Fundamentalist Christianity was respectability. This mask is slipping, and Brooks desperately wants it back.

  113. 113
    Patrick says:

    Could this be the time when Benghazi finally turned from a liability to an asset for Hillary Clinton? If so, it’ll be because the issue has now become less about what the select committee Republicans set up to investigate the matter has found, and more about the committee itself.

    The real issue is why it took our media so long to figure this out. More American diplomats were killed in embassy attacks under Bush, yet this one incident has been investigated much more. Shouldn’t that have rung a bell for the media early on?

  114. 114
    Patrick says:

    @Elizabelle:

    Whenever I hear the name Cokie Roberts I always think of this idiotic thing she once said:

    On the August 10 edition of ABC’s This Week, ABC News political analyst Cokie Roberts criticized Sen. Barack Obama — who was born in Hawaii — for “going off this week to a vacation in Hawaii,” which she said “does not make any sense whatsoever.” Roberts stated: “I know his grandmother lives in Hawaii and I know Hawaii is a state, but it has the look of him going off to some sort of foreign, exotic place.

    http://mediamatters.org/video/.....gra/144326

  115. 115
    Thoughtful Today says:

    Add:

    “Cokie’s Law” … essentially: Reality and facts don’t matter if people are talking about it…

    http://www.salon.com/2015/08/2....._downfall/

  116. 116
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Jeffro: I think it would shake out that way — with the media championing a challenger — if Biden were an unknown quantity upon whom the Villagers could project a shopworn narrative. But he’s been around forever, and there’s almost zero daylight policy-wise and in terms of past performance between Biden and Clinton.

    If Biden were to jump into the race, “Dems in Disarray” would be the headline, alright, but I don’t think the Beltway media would fluff Biden to support it; they’d paint it as a situation where the Democrats are so desperate for an alternative to the Hildebeast that they had to turn to Biden, even though he’s “gaffe prone,” guilty of plagiarism and was unsuccessful in previous bids.

  117. 117
    Jeffro says:

    @rikyrah:

    “Well, I’ll tell you why: it’s because America is worth saving. If that means getting into a war with the PC police, I’m ready to fight that war. And I hope you will join me.”

    Oh my…WAR on the PC police…talk about hyperbole and exaggeration! I do love the right-wing’s recent ramp-up against “PC” language and what not. I never have seen them point to anything factual in regards to it, mind you, but they do throw some interesting stuff out there.

  118. 118
    danielx says:

    @beltane:

    Done beat me to it.

  119. 119
    Jeffro says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    So you reckon the media will pump him up as an alternative to Hillary, as some of them have been doing with Bernie?

    Oh absolutely…as an alternative to both. “Don’t trust Hillary? Can’t vote for a socialist? Biden!” LOL The problem is, there’s about 2-3% difference at most between all of them on the issues (Biden and Clinton in particular). But, anything to keep the horse race going & distract from Republican’s difficulties…

  120. 120
    Cervantes says:

    @Chris:

    The main quote I associate with Edmund Burke is his little screed about the execution of Queen Marie Antoinette of France. He describes her in a way reminiscent of the Village’s “Baby’s Got Blue Eyes” swooning over Paul Ryan (or Sarah Starburts Palin or whatever crush they have at the moment) and follows up with a screed about the death of chivalry, then announces the end of civilization and reaches for the fainting couch.

    Not to defend Burke and his language there — but it’s worth keeping in mind that Marie Antoinette was reviled by the opponents of the régime from the time she went to France as a young teen. While she did over the years display a certain insensitivity to the political ramifications of some of her actions, she was also a young girl, then a young woman, who did try to do some good. Her enemies ignored her youth and then her good deeds, pouncing instead on her real mistakes, and inventing for her other mistakes they could revile in ways that today we would easily see as being unfair and even pornographic and obscene.

    One anecdote: An explorer brought back from West Africa a young boy, a gift for the Queen. Outrageous, of course — but instead of using the boy as a toy, or an instrument, or a servant, as was common practice, she adopted him into her household. (She had adopted other children as well.) When Versailles fell (so to speak), she paid for the boy to be placed into a comfortable children’s home, where he remained until she was (soon) imprisoned, at which point her payments stopped and the boy was ejected from the home and died poor and starving — on the egalitarian streets of Revolutionary France. One victim among many, sure — but whose victim?

  121. 121
    rikyrah says:

    Kay,more for you

    ……………

    More Barbara Byrd-Bennett CPS Contracts Under Scrutiny

    There are more questions about multimillion-dollar contracts Chicago Public Schools gave to firms that had previous associations with disgraced schools CEO Barbara Byrd-Bennett.

    “Chicago Tonight” has learned of a probe into another contract where a firm with ties to Byrd-Bennett received CPS business. This as Byrd-Bennett is expected to plead guilty Tuesday to charges that she steered $23 million in CPS money to SUPES Academy and Synesi Associatesin exchange for bribes and kickbacks.

    The arrangement in question: a $31 million contract to help CPS manage the controversial closing and consolidation of 50 schools that took place two years ago. It’s under scrutiny, “Chicago Tonight” has learned, because of ties between former CEO Barbara Byrd-Bennett and one of the companies that received that business.

    A company called Global Workplace Solutions won the $30.9 million bid to help close the schools. The duties involved relocating records, removing contents, furnishings and equipment from the closed schools, and then securing the closed schools. A portion of the business was subcontracted to a company called The Robert Bobb Group, a company run by Robert Bobb, the former Emergency Financial Manager for Detroit Public Schools. Bobb hired Byrd-Bennett in Detroit in 2009 as Chief Academic Auditor and paid her a salary of $18,000 per month.

    A document explains what his private company did during the CPS school closing deal, including “managing and processing the active business and financial records during the consolidation of the closed Chicago Public Schools” and “collecting, processing, sorting, batching, packing, annotating boxes … shipping student records.”

    http://chicagotonight.wttw.com.....r-scrutiny

  122. 122
    Jeffro says:

    @danielx: wow – thanks for the link.

    That is some masterpiece by Brooksie – I think he used every 10-cent word he knows, just to sound like he’s got this wonderfully nuanced, educated grasp of where the GOP went of the rails (all with his enabling, as you noted)

    The end is a real gem:

    Really, have we ever seen bumbling on this scale, people at once so cynical and so naïve, so willfully ignorant in using levers of power to produce some tangible if incremental good? These insurgents can’t even acknowledge democracy’s legitimacy — if you can’t persuade a majority of your colleagues, maybe you should accept their position. You might be wrong!

    Um, David, millions of progressives who marched to try and keep the country out of war with Iraq might appreciate this conversion on your part. You can just write them one collective thank-you/”my bad” note.

    People who don’t accept democracy will be bad at conversation. They won’t respect tradition, institutions or precedent. These figures are masters at destruction but incompetent at construction. These insurgents are incompetent at governing and unwilling to be governed. But they are not a spontaneous growth. It took a thousand small betrayals of conservatism to get to the dysfunction we see all around.

    Um, David, 1) people who hate government shouldn’t be in charge of government, 2) since when were you a champion of democracy?, and 3) it wasn’t 1,000 betrayals of conservatism, it was 1,000 examples of conservatism in action that have so damaged this country and its people.

  123. 123
    rikyrah says:

    How Prosecutors Get Away With Cutting Black Jurors

    This term, the Supreme Court will consider an outrageous case of prosecutorial misconduct. But will it do anything about it?

    A curious thing happened at the trial of Timothy Tyrone Foster, a young black man accused of killing an elderly white woman: Every black prospective juror was dismissed. Foster was convicted, and sentenced to death, by an all-white jury.

    Even more curious: There were 42 prospective jurors that morning, five of whom were black. All dismissed, four of whom by “peremptory challenge,” in which the prosecutor strikes a juror at his or her discretion. In Georgia, where Foster’s trial took place, prosecutors have 10 such options.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/a.....urors.html

  124. 124

    @raven: If that’s how you have to access the bathroom, it’s going to be hard to use.

  125. 125
    Thoughtful Today says:

    [sigh]

    “there’s about 2-3% difference at most between all of them [Dems] on the issues”

    No.

    That’s about as asstute* an observation as Nader’s claim there was no difference between Gore and Bush.

    Asstute: Something that sounds astute but is really ass backwards.

  126. 126
    Jeffro says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    I don’t think the Beltway media would fluff Biden to support it; they’d paint it as a situation where the Democrats are so desperate for an alternative to the Hildebeast that they had to turn to Biden

    I think I see your point, but despite the ‘Biden down-sides’, there’s still much potential fluffing to be done: Biden helping cement/extend Obama’s policies & legacy, Biden with all the friends across the aisle, Biden the working-class-hero-yet-not-a-socialist, etc. We certainly agree the whole point (from the media & GOP’s perspective) is to drag down Hillary.

  127. 127

    @Baud: Are we missing something or should we thank the Ceiling Cat for small mercies?

  128. 128
    Jeffro says:

    @Thoughtful Today: Spare me the sighs and especially the grade-school insults…go take any of those “who’s my candidate, based on my stands on the issues’ quizzes that’s out there. Let me know if your score shows more than a few percentage points of difference (5% at most) between Clinton and Sanders.

    Making Clinton/Sanders into the gulf between Gore and Bush is ignorant.

  129. 129
    Cervantes says:

    @Jeffro:

    go take any of those “who’s my candidate, based on my stands on the issues’ quizzes that’s out there

    Is there one you particularly recommend?

  130. 130
    Patrick says:

    @rikyrah:

    How can it be a jury of his peers when he is judged by whites and no blacks?

  131. 131
    Thoughtful Today says:

    Biden would significantly mix things up. He’s compelling, persuasive, and has a lot of establishment supporters.

    He’s also hurting Clinton by not definitively saying whether he’s going to run or not. Not sure that’s his point but the polls seem to consistently say that’s the fact.

  132. 132
    Cervantes says:

    @Patrick:

    How can it be a jury of his peers when he is judged by whites and no blacks?

    I wouldn’t be too surprised if they mean that as a compliment.

  133. 133
    Thoughtful Today says:

    When someone says there’s no difference between the Democratic candidates, it shows they haven’t paid attention to any of the various Dems’ positions and issues.

    There’s a significant range of positions between Webb, Chaffee, Clinton, Biden, and Bernie.

    Anyone saying otherwise isn’t paying attention.

  134. 134
    Ruckus says:

    @Amir Khalid:
    It’s what they do best. Not what they do good. (Which is nothing)
    They are best at doing nothing at all but throwing shit against the wall. To their voters it sounds like a lot of bad shit. What it really is, is just shit they make up. It’s really the equivalent of the monkey exhibit at the zoo. They pull it out of their ass and throw it. That’s the sum total of their process.

  135. 135
  136. 136
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @raven:

    Wait, the only access to your new bathroom is through a window? A window requiring a ladder to reach?

    ARCHITECT FAIL.

  137. 137
    Jeffro says:

    @Thoughtful Today: I think I’m being trolled here…and by a pretty good one, too. I thought TT was serious but he sounds like someone we all know pretty well…

    When someone says there’s no difference between the Democratic candidates, it shows they haven’t paid attention to any of the various Dems’ positions and issues.

    There’s a significant range of positions between Webb, Chaffee, Biden, and Bernie.

    Anyone saying otherwise isn’t paying attention.

    How do I know this is serious trolling? I didn’t say “no difference” – I said minimal. And bringing up Webb and Chaffee is great, too. Nice touch TT!

  138. 138
    raven says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: No, the on;y way to get a picture of the shower is from a ladder. . .wait, you knew this!

  139. 139
    divF says:

    @Jeffro:
    @Thoughtful Today:
    Percentages are relative measures. Relative to the range defined by Clinton and Sanders, the difference is by construction 100%. Relative to the range defined by Clinton, Sanders, and the Republican field, I think that the difference is in the sub-1% range.

  140. 140
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Thoughtful Today: Chafee. One F. And I challenge you to name a single position of his, on any issue.

  141. 141
    rikyrah says:

    Iran parliament approves nuclear deal with world powers
    By Arthur MacMillan 1 hour ago

    Tehran (AFP) – Iran’s parliament approved the country’s nuclear deal
    with world powers Tuesday, paving the way for the historic agreement
    curbing Tehran’s atomic programme to take effect and for sanctions to
    end.

    The vote came after fierce debate among lawmakers over the terms of the accord, which was struck on July 14 but has faced a rough ride from
    hardliners in Tehran and in the US Congress.

    http://news.yahoo.com/iran-par.....zcg–

  142. 142
    Thoughtful Today says:

    I’ve been reading people blurring the sharp differences between the Democratic candidates for a couple of weeks now.

    Part of it is just lazy/ignorance, some find reading is hard. For instance, I don’t know anything about Lessig outside of that one issue … does he have any positions outside of the ‘money in politics’ issue? I’ve been too lazy to even look up if he’s even got a website.

    But part of it is an attempt to blur the distinctions for other reasons. Some are trying to diminish why one candidate might be preferred for their specific policies and issues. Some are trying to blur the distinctions out of worry that those sharp differences could hurt the eventual Dem candidate in the General Election.

    I’ll start by assuming ‘lazy’ rather that Machiavellian.

  143. 143
    Thoughtful Today says:

    lol

    Chafee Chaffee. Thank you for the correction.

    And: “metric” :)

  144. 144
    Thoughtful Today says:

    @divF: Yes. Thank you for that.

  145. 145
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Thoughtful Today: One F.

  146. 146
    shell says:

    Theyre carrying the debate so its obvious CNN will be over the top all day….but seriously….a countdown clock? Is that for people too stupid to tell time?

  147. 147
    Bill says:

    @rikyrah:

    Presidential hopeful Ben Carson told a packed Hall County megachurch this morning that he would bring God back to the forefront of American life, and he would go to war with the “PC police” to do it.

    A group of people who insist their religion never be criticized are moved by a message of “war” with the “PC police.”

    What would Alanis Morisette say about this?

  148. 148
    WaterGirl says:

    @raven: I feel you. When my bathroom was re-done after the tree hit the house, it was impossible to get a good photo. Crouch on the floor, stand on the toilet… it didn’t matter what i tried, I just couldn’t capture the looking feel of the bathroom.

  149. 149
    WaterGirl says:

    @raven: So sorry to hear about your girl. How did she tear her ACL? Some fluke accident?

    I had to keep my cocker spaniel, Murphy, in a crate for 8 weeks after he had back surgery. It was the only way to keep him quiet. I thought that 8 weeks would never end, but it did!

  150. 150
    amk says:

    @Thoughtful Today:

    Except for hardcore supporters of each candidate, the rest of the voters may have only peripheral or zero idea about such policy differences. That is life and that is politics.

  151. 151
    Thoughtful Today says:

    Good point, amk.

    Still … aaaargghh.

  152. 152
    PaulW says:

    Okay. Pinku-Sensei has finished all the drink orders for the Democratic debate drinking game!

    http://noticeatrend.blogspot.c.....e-for.html

    Please remember to drink and vote responsibly!

    I am busy tonight with my writers’ group. We are presenting rough drafts for our next anthology publication – we’re doing it as a shared place day-in-the-life series of stories – so I will not be able to watch much of the early half of the debate. I hope it’s a good clean fight with honest, simple answers from the candidates.

  153. 153
    NonyNony says:

    @Thoughtful Today:

    Part of it is just lazy/ignorance, some find reading is hard. For instance, I don’t know anything about Lessig outside of that one issue … does he have any positions outside of the ‘money in politics’ issue? I’ve been too lazy to even look up if he’s even got a website.

    Lessig has promised to pass his one issue through Congress and then resign from office.

    So no.

  154. 154
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @amk: Or the person may be paying close attention and thinking the differences between HRC and Sanders, for example, are miniscule compared to the difference between HRC/Sanders and anyone from the GOP.

  155. 155
    Cervantes says:

    @Jeffro:

    This one: https://www.isidewith.com

    OK, thanks.

    I answered all the available questions and found that my “I side with” scores range from 72% to 94% among the four listed as Democrats — and, for comparison, 7% to 31% among the five Republicans.

    For one thing, would you say that 72%-94% is a small range?

    More precisely, you asked us to “[let you] know if [our] score shows more than a few percentage points of difference (5% at most) between Clinton and Sanders.” Mine does — double that, actually.

    Finally, imagine a quiz (very like the one you recommend) where there are two candidates Alpha and Omega whose positions on three issues are {a, a, a} and {z, z, z}, respectively. In other words, imagine that they take extremely different positions. Now imagine that I come in and provide my answers {m, m, m}. What is the quiz going to reveal? That I am equidistant from both candidates and that therefore they can’t differ by much?

  156. 156
    celticdragonchick says:

    @Cervantes:

    Not to defend Burke and his language there — but it’s worth keeping in mind that Marie Antoinette was reviled by the opponents of the régime from the time she went to France as a young teen. While she did over the years display a certain insensitivity to the political ramifications of some of her actions, she was also a young girl, then a young woman, who did try to do some good. Her enemies ignored her youth and then her good deeds, pouncing instead on her real mistakes, and inventing for her other mistakes they could revile in ways that today we would easily see as being unfair and even pornographic and obscene.

    Her children learned to not expect gifts at Christmas since Marie used that as an example of charity and character building. Whatever gifts they might have expected were given to the poor, which she thought was a better example of Christmas spirit.

    From my paper posted here at academia.edu:

    https://www.academia.edu/14171983/The_Reign_of_Terror

    According to Mathiez, the Terror “…was much less the result of a well thought out ideology then of inescapable pressures brought on by civil and foreign war. The enemy had to be repulsed, the royalist and Girondin revolts crushed.” The effectiveness of the Terror in accomplishing these goals is not in doubt, yet Mathiez ignores the voluminous evidence in Robespierre’s own words that he had planned to install a society of Spartan virtue all along, and his decision to suspend his own constitution until society was cleansed demonstrates his motivation.

    The cleansing began in short order. The former Queen, Marie Antoinette, went to the scaffold on October 16th. Herbert, vulgar as ever, gloated as the frail, gaunt Marie was trundled to the “hot hand”, which was his current nickname for the guillotine, and complained that “The bitch was audacious and insolent right to the very end.” Mme Roland, the Brissotin who had praised the virtue of war and had actually congratulated Robespierre’s accomplishments merely a year earlier, found herself before the blade on November 8th. Other Brissotin/Gironde assembly members soon followed suit. The man who had administered the Tennis Court Oath, Bailly, took the tumbril ride on November 11th. The bloody toll of Gironde “counter-revolutionaries” grew inexorably to the demands of violent virtue as interpreted by the Revolutionary Tribunal, The Committee of Public Safety and their notions of mythologized General Will.

  157. 157
    Cervantes says:

    @amk:

    Except for hardcore supporters of each candidate, the rest of the voters may have only peripheral or zero idea about such policy differences. That is life and that is politics.

    In other words, those who are paying attention will find policy differences whereas those who are not won’t? Thanks for clarifying.

  158. 158
    amk says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Sure the voters are normally aware what the other party stands for but not necessarily the policy nuances of their own party candidates.

  159. 159
    amk says:

    @Cervantes:

    There you go again. Whatever floats your boat.

  160. 160
    Betty Cracker says:

    Does anyone know of a comparison chart that accurately represents the positions of the Democratic candidates on top issues? I’ve looked around on Google and haven’t found anything trustworthy and/or enlightening. I may have to create one myself, but I’d rather not reinvent the wheel if there’s already one out there, and it’s hard to believe there isn’t.

  161. 161
    Cervantes says:

    @amk:

    Words mean things — even your words, and even if you are unaware.

  162. 162
    amk says:

    @Cervantes:

    Glad my words educate you. Keep learning, boy.

  163. 163
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @amk: No, what I am saying is that voters, including some commenting on this thread may well be aware of the policy differences. They may well say “I prefer Sanders’s policy on issue x and Clinton’s on issue y.” At the same time, they may not disagree with Clinton on x and Sanders on y. Because of that, they may well be looking thing in addition to policy positions in order to make their decision. When I took that quiz I came in 90+% for both Sanders and Clinton – slightly pro-Sanders actually – yet I am leaning towards Clinton because I perceive her as likely to be a more effective candidate in the general election.

  164. 164
    TheMightyTrowel says:

    Just got word my latest book (it’s academic book, boys and girls, I promise none of you would want to read it) has landed in hardcopy with the publishers. Woo!

  165. 165
    Thoughtful Today says:

    “For one thing, would you say that 72%-94% is a small range?”

    … if you’re grading pass/fail … sure. And at least those grades pass.

    7% to 31% for Republicans? Ouch.

    Oddly, those completely-out-of-context numbers kind of sum up how I feel about the Dems and Repubs that are running … and even that is grading Repubs on a curve.

  166. 166
    celticdragonchick says:

    @TheMightyTrowel:

    What is it? What subject?

  167. 167
    Elizabelle says:

    No matter who says what in the debate tonight, this is a parties election. The Democratic Party, and its platform, up against whoever the Republican party delivers.

    Paul Krugman, from April 2015. Smarter and more honest than anything you will hear on cable today, no matter how many hours they bloviate.

    NY Times link: It Takes a Party

    So Hillary Clinton is officially running, to nobody’s surprise. And you know what’s coming: endless attempts to psychoanalyze the candidate, endless attempts to read significance into what she says or doesn’t say about President Obama, endless thumb-sucking about her “positioning” on this or that issue.

    Please pay no attention. Personality-based political analysis is always a dubious venture — in my experience, pundits are terrible judges of character. Those old enough to remember the 2000 election may also remember how we were assured that George W. Bush was a nice, affable fellow who would pursue moderate, bipartisan policies.

    In any case, there has never been a time in American history when the alleged personal traits of candidates mattered less. As we head into 2016, each party is quite unified on major policy issues — and these unified positions are very far from each other. The huge, substantive gulf between the parties will be reflected in the policy positions of whomever they nominate, and will almost surely be reflected in the actual policies adopted by whoever wins.

    [Discussion of entitlement spending, taxes, climate change]

    …. How did the parties get this far apart? Political scientists suggest that it has a lot to do with income inequality. As the wealthy grow richer compared with everyone else, their policy preferences have moved to the right — and they have pulled the Republican Party ever further in their direction. Meanwhile, the influence of big money on Democrats has at least eroded a bit, now that Wall Street, furious over regulations and modest tax hikes, has deserted the party en masse. The result is a level of political polarization not seen since the Civil War.

    NOTE the Times’ weekend expose on presidential campaign financing: 1/2 the money came from 158 families. 138 of those families support Republicans.

    …. Self-proclaimed centrists will look for a middle ground that doesn’t actually exist. And as a result, we’ll hear many assertions that the candidates don’t really mean what they say.

    On one side, suppose that Ms. Clinton is indeed the Democratic nominee. If so, you can be sure that she’ll be accused, early and often, of insincerity, of not being the populist progressive she claims to be.

    On the other side, suppose that the Republican nominee is a supposed moderate like Jeb Bush or Marco Rubio. In either case we’d be sure to hear many assertions from political pundits that the candidate doesn’t believe a lot of what he says. But in their cases this alleged insincerity would be presented as a virtue, not a vice — sure, Mr. Bush is saying crazy things about health care and climate change, but he doesn’t really mean it, and he’d be reasonable once in office. Just like his brother.

    the differences between the parties are so clear and dramatic that it’s hard to see how anyone who has been paying attention could be undecided even now, or be induced to change his or her mind between now and the election.

    One thing is for sure: American voters will be getting a real choice. May the best party win.

    Why they have to bracket K-Thug with as many “moderates” in the Bush family sense and conservatives/radicals whenever he’s on air.

  168. 168

    @TheMightyTrowel: A book is a book. Go you!

  169. 169
    redshirt says:

    This might be shallow, but I don’t give a damn about any issues amongst Democrats. All I care about is: Can you win? Can you help others win?

    All that matters is ensuring Republicans stay out of power. That’s my one and only issue, and I trust all Democrats share it with me.

  170. 170
    Paul in KY says:

    @celticdragonchick: Some guys are real lazy too & knifing someone is harder than just blasting them.

  171. 171
    Cervantes says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Does anyone know of a comparison chart that accurately represents the positions of the Democratic candidates on top issues?

    “Accurately”? Who knows? We know what they say, not necessarily what their underlying positions are. Plus one can easily skew the appearance of things by including some “top issues” in the analysis and not others.

    In any event, you could try InsideGov. I’m not endorsing it; and anyhow, the issue comparisons you find there are based on the methodology used by OnTheIssues.org.

  172. 172
    sharl says:

    @Betty Cracker: I suspect the comparison chart among Dem candidates is out there…somewhere…but I don’t have any leads/links. I remember fondly your Florida politics map, so even if I had any leads, I would nefariously and selfishly keep them to myself. I would instead encourage you to ditch your day job for however long it takes to entertain and inform me personally with something of your own creation.

    #ItsAllAboutMyNeeds

  173. 173
    Elizabelle says:

    @redshirt: My take too.

    Expend the energy supporting the nominee, and advocating for the best candidate. Most electable is important, and I could not guess how that breaks for Bernie, once he’s got a national audience.

    I don’t see why a lot of his message wouldn’t resonate with libertarians or even those stupidly enthused with the Tea Party now. It’s anti-elitist and make the government work for the American people again. Work genuinely for the middle class.

    Whatever happens with Bernie, I am glad to see him raising those issues and making the other candidates respond.

    It is complete wishful thinking the GOP would deliver for the middle class. They won’t. They don’t.

  174. 174

    @redshirt: Works for me.

    Too many Rs are intent on limiting voting, reproductive rights, and the minimum wage. This isn’t just a bull session in a dorm room. These people can do real damage.

  175. 175
    celticdragonchick says:

    @Paul in KY:

    It seems that knives are really favored by some stalker/serial killer/sex criminal types who make the knife/phallus connection really explicit.

    The gun as fist extension become apparent whenever you see it used in a road rage situation (like the woman shot in the back yesterday in Georgia for driving too slow) or by Bundy Ranch types who see it as a panacea for their fear of government and loss of privilege.

    The retired FBI supervisor who extensively and critically wrote about the Amanda Knox case in Italy made the case that the only time he had seen or heard of any female using a knife in a criminal act was a couple of obscure gang related incidents and that as a statistical matter Amanda Knox should have immediately been disregarded as a suspect for the knife murder.

  176. 176
    Paul in KY says:

    @Jeffro: Bernie #1, Hillary #2, Martin #3, 1st Repub being Rand

  177. 177
    Cervantes says:

    @celticdragonchick:

    Thanks!

    The abstract is not visible at the link (not to me, anyway). Can you post it here?

    (I will take a look at the full paper but can’t do it right now.)

  178. 178
    Elizabelle says:

    Ready. Aim. Fire. K-Thug hits Bobo in the balls. Name-checks him in the first sentence. Just up, at 11 this morning.

    NY Times: Everett Dirksen Doesn’t Live Here Anymore

    I see that David Brooks is lamenting the decline of conservatism as he defines it:

    “By traditional definitions, conservatism stands for intellectual humility, a belief in steady, incremental change, a preference for reform rather than revolution, a respect for hierarchy, precedence, balance and order, and a tone of voice that is prudent, measured and responsible. Conservatives of this disposition can be dull, but they know how to nurture and run institutions.”

    [Discussion of why conservatism of that sort has not been seen in US Republican politics for decades, and how “not conservative” — but radical — Reagan and Gingrich were.]

    …. And on the other hand, by David’s definition Barack Obama is pretty conservative: the Affordable Care Act is a classic example of incremental change, building on the existing system rather than trying a complete overhaul.

    My point is that if what you want is traditional conservatism, the only people with real influence with anything like that mindset are Democrats. Actually existing conservatism is a radical doctrine.

    Democrats are the only adults in the room. Which is why MSM has gone so crazy (NY Times political reporting, not-Fox cable channels). They hate it. Their fig leaf is gone.

  179. 179
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Elizabelle: That was largely what I was saying above. I broadly agree with the major candidates for the D nom on most issues. I want the one with the best chance of winning the general to get the nomination – even if some other candidate may be a more perfect ideological match. I tend to see any other way of looking at this process as dangerously naive.

  180. 180
    celticdragonchick says:

    @Cervantes:

    Sure :)

    I think you have to download the paper to see the cover sheet correctly, but here is the abstract:

    ABSTRACT
    The Terror became the apotheosis of revolutionary desire for a radical utopian restructuring or renewal of society within the framework of war both within and without. Historians have split over the utilitarian necessity of the Terror insofar as how the implemented policies were actually mandatory to the survival of the state. Ultimately, Robespierre, both in his utopian obsession with societal virtue as well as with existential enemies, conflated violence with virtue. In doing so, he used the Terror to not only rid the radical revolutionary government of foreign and domestic enemies but also to remake or ‘regenerate’ society into a permanent virtuous revolution.

    Sounds a little familiar, yes?

  181. 181
    Elizabelle says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Agreed. On steroids.

  182. 182
    benw says:

    @redshirt: Another way to look at it is that my personal outcome from the debate is already known: I’m voting D. So I might as well watch some baseball, where I don’t know the outcome ahead of time!

    SANDERS/METS 2016

  183. 183
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Elizabelle: It’s funny, but when I read Bobo’s definition, I thought about myself and said, “gee, I guess I’m a conservative.” Yet I have never voted for a Republican.

  184. 184
    Cervantes says:

    @celticdragonchick:

    Thanks for the abstract. I will look at the full paper directly on the site.

    (I can’t download the paper myself as I do not use Facebook, etc., but I can obtain it regardless.)

  185. 185
    celticdragonchick says:

    @Cervantes:

    Hope you enjoy it. My other paper I have up is on Mary of Scots and Bess of Hardwick.

  186. 186
    jl says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Brooks definition is tendentious BS he made up so he can posture as the True Conservative Voice. It is tailored to fit his cynical or deluded (I do not judge!) stance that he takes in his NYT columns.

    In other news, I side with Bernie, then HRC very close second, then Biden then, O’Malley, and then long drop off to Paul. Rest of GOpers at the bottom of a very long fall off a cliff.

  187. 187
    Brachiator says:

    @celticdragonchick:

    The retired FBI supervisor who extensively and critically wrote about the Amanda Knox case in Italy made the case that the only time he had seen or heard of any female using a knife in a criminal act was a couple of obscure gang related incidents and that as a statistical matter Amanda Knox should have immediately been disregarded as a suspect for the knife murder.

    I’m no FBI supervisor, but it seems to me that you eliminate a person as a suspect because the evidence, if available, tells you do so, not because of statistics.

    Statistics are suggestive, but not definitive.

  188. 188
    boatboy_srq says:

    @Elizabelle:

    On the other side, suppose that the Republican nominee is a supposed moderate like Jeb Bush or Marco Rubio. In either case we’d be sure to hear many assertions from political pundits that the candidate doesn’t believe a lot of what he says. But in their cases this alleged insincerity would be presented as a virtue, not a vice — sure, Mr. Bush is saying crazy things about health care and climate change, but he doesn’t really mean it, and he’d be reasonable once in office. Just like his brother.

    This is just scary. The VSPs who Krugman neatly skewers here are conveniently forgetting that the entire Teahad campaigned on exactly these crazy things, and have been trying to implement them since 2011. Any GOTea pResident who says the same things on the campaign trail will be obliged to adhere to them once in office, whether s/he means them or is simply saying crazy things to get [s]elected.

  189. 189
    jl says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Norman Ornstein drops the F-word (not ‘Funkadelic’) in an interview. He is not a conservative by Brooks’ definition. Case closed.

    What The Big GOP Meltdown Reveals From A Guy Who Saw It All Coming
    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/d.....p-meltdown

  190. 190
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @celticdragonchick: Knives don’t go bang. I am sure that can be a pro or con depending who is using it and why.

  191. 191
    Amir Khalid says:

    @jl:
    Mind you, “Funkadelic” makes an entertaining substitute for the actual F-word in conversation: e.g. “You funkadelic moron!”

  192. 192
    celticdragonchick says:

    @Brachiator:

    If women are not known to slicing up other women with knives according to criminal profilers, you don’t devote resources to trying come up with a Satanic ritualistic sacrifice scenario (spiced with xenophobia…those crazy female Americans are ruining the country!) to justify going after a young female college student. Particularly not when you already have a suspect under arrest who is a known B&E type and who left forensic evidence that definitively tied him to the crime.

    Kinda like having a dead body on the street shot multiple times with 7.62mm Russian short brass casings all over from an AK derivative and the first person you go after is the retired non-gun owning female teacher who lives nearby.

  193. 193
    eyelessgame says:

    If there is some Republican who is distressed about the Benghazi committee revelations because, despite the obvious misebehavior of the committee, he still thinks there’s some there there, and that now we’ll never know, all I can say is: kerning.

  194. 194
    benw says:

    @Elizabelle: could Brooks’ definition of conservative scream “WHITE MEN” any louder without actually containing those words? It makes K-Thug’s joke that “by David’s definition Barack Obama is pretty conservative” ironic. Obama’s status as NOT ONE OF US has nothing to do with the relative incrementalness of Frank-Dodd or PPACA, and everything to do with his blackity blackness. Brooks and his type have had to construct an entire false narrative around Obama’s presidency to get around this basic problem.

    Edited to change Brook’s to Brooks’ ’cause that’s how I roll.

  195. 195
    bemused says:

    @Elizabelle:

    “Pundits are terrible judges of character”

    I have assumed that a great number pundits choose to write something that will get attention and sell and then just use pseudo-psychoanalyzing to fit their narrative ala David Brooks.

  196. 196
    Face says:

    @Brachiator: It didnt say eliminate, it said disregard. Meaning (to me, at least), let’s not focus on her involvement and look for others instead, not “let’s completely forget her altogether”. And statistics should absolutely be used for such winnowing of the possible suspect pool.

    IMO, your first suspects in a child pr0n case should be males. Your first suspects in a grafitti vandalism should be young males. Perhaps death by poisoning would more likely be female (dunno). Stats tell me these are the most likely at fault.

  197. 197
    burnspbesq says:

    The strangest thing you will see all day: the words “Arizona State” on the college hockey schedule.

  198. 198
    Brachiator says:

    @redshirt:

    This might be shallow, but I don’t give a damn about any issues amongst Democrats. All I care about is: Can you win? Can you help others win?

    That’s the big question. But I don’t know how to measure this. Or what qualities determine a winner.

    And in a crazy way, isn’t this just the reversal of the Trump challenge? “That guy over there is obviously a loser.”

    I guess for now most of the Democratic candidates are broadly acceptable. And although I like Bernie Sanders as a person, he does not thrill me as a candidate, and I don’t really see him even remotely being the nominee when all is said and done.

    But for the electorate as a whole, the nominee has to give you a positive reason for voting for that person. And you have to be able to get out the vote to some degree. There are people who are alienated from politics, who think that they are largely immunized against most of the bad (or good) that either party might do, or who otherwise don’t care unless highly motivated, even if it is only “what’s in it for me?” And of course there are those who are waiting for their purity unicorns.

    These voters are not motivated by any automatic “GOP Bad, Democrats Good” response. And they can determine the outcome of a close election.

    ETA: I listened to a political expert claim that there is no such thing as an “independent,” and that the people who describe themselves as Independent are really just Republicans or Democrats. This “expert” is a fool.

  199. 199
    celticdragonchick says:

    @benw:

    could Brook’s definition of conservative scream “WHITE MEN” any louder without actually containing those words?

    Exactly.

    His version of conservatism is tied to property owning white men of a certain age with sobriety, earnestness and capability who will save us all from certain Hobbesian doom.

    That model died out around 1790. but he hasn’t caught on yet. Some people are slow learners.

  200. 200
    Elizabelle says:

    In defense of knives, K-Thug does bring a stiletto to David Brooks’ cow-pie fight.

  201. 201
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Amir Khalid: I’d hate to see the term abused in that way. George Clinton is an American original, and the Parliament-Funkadelic legacy has permeated so much of music that I’m not sure that everybody who owes him a debt is even necessarily aware of it.

  202. 202
    celticdragonchick says:

    @Brachiator:

    ETA: I listened to a political expert claim that there is no such thing as an “independent,” and that the people who describe themselves as Independent are really just Republicans or Democrats. This “expert” is a fool.

    Maybe, but I have seen some studies to the effect that many “independents” are really arch conservatives who think the GOP is too lefty for their tastes.

  203. 203
    MattF says:

    @jl: The ‘GOP meltdown’ looks to me like the emergence of a third party. They don’t really have a name (I like ‘Crazy Fuckers’ myself), so discussions tend to bog down in a partisan dead end. But, yeah, the Crazy Fuckers are real and there’s zero prospect for ‘tripartisanship’.

  204. 204
    rikyrah says:

    Zeke MillerVerified account‏@ZekeJMiller
    Jeb: “Being on Medicaid isn’t necessarily better than being uninsured”

  205. 205
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Jeffro: I think that in 2008, the protracted primary race between Clinton and Obama actually ended up helping Democrats in the general election. At the time, that wasn’t obvious, but it got Democrats fired up, registered to vote and turning out in the primaries. Most of that translated to support for Obama in the general election campaign; there was a lot of media attention paid to PUMAs but they were irrelevant in the end.

    Clinton and Biden are close enough to each other, and conventional enough politicians, that either would surely support the other in a general election campaign. Sanders seems less certain just because his supporters include some people with a recognizable Naderite streak, but he’s explicitly said he’ll support the Democratic nominee as well.

    So I am not so bothered by the prospect of a seriously contested primary. Biden being forever suspended on the cusp of running, neither in nor out, is more annoying, but it’s early days and that will surely change very soon.

  206. 206
    Calouste says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Republicans aren’t really conservatives, as in that they want slow and steady progress, they are reactionaries, they want to turn back progress that has been made.

  207. 207
    Cervantes says:

    @Brachiator:

    ETA: I listened to a political expert claim that there is no such thing as an “independent,” and that the people who describe themselves as Independent are really just Republicans or Democrats. This “expert” is a fool.

    What fraction of the electorate would you say is “independent”?

  208. 208
    burnspbesq says:

    @Thoughtful Today:

    It’s important to persistently remind both the PUMAs and the FDL types that a Dem in the WH is more important than any particular Dem in the WH.

    Unless, of course, you’re OK with the idea of Janice Rogers Brown succeeding RBG on the Supreme Court.

  209. 209
    Elizabelle says:

    @Brachiator: One of the NY Times’ Republican whisperer reporters is catching on. Headline and blurb on website front page:

    A Debate That May Show How Little Democrats Differ

    By JONATHAN MARTIN

    The most telling aspect of Tuesday night’s debate between the Democratic presidential candidates in Las Vegas may be how much they agree.

    Bring it, Democrats.

  210. 210
    MattF says:

    @celticdragonchick: I understand you’re being snarky– but it’s important so say clearly that Brooks is acting in bad faith. It’s not slow learning, it’s lying.

  211. 211
    Elizabelle says:

    @Cervantes: We’ve already figured out the “No Labels” fraudsters are Republicans who are embarrassed to call themselves such.

    They’re perhaps down, falsely, as “independents.”

    Their biggest constituency: Morning Joke! And Wolf! and his buddies at CNN.

  212. 212
    MattF says:

    @Calouste: I’d call them nihilists. They really think that the war of all against all is a good thing, the way the world ought to be.

  213. 213
    Paul in KY says:

    @celticdragonchick: People who use a knife on someone (here in US) usually do have a deep animus against that person or gender or whatever.

    It certainly ain’t because they can’t find a gun!

  214. 214
    celticdragonchick says:

    @Calouste:

    Not even really reactionaries, since you can’t point to any time in the past where one party thought government was illegitimate as a matter of course.

    The new GOP are true Utopian radicals. They are trying to bring us to some new Randian paradise that has never existed before. They are not the inheritors of Burke. They hail from St Just and Robespierre. Purity, virtue, non compromises allowed, threats of extra legal violence (2nd Amendment solutions), permanent revolution and enemies within and without who are always waiting to be unmasked and destroyed.

  215. 215
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Brachiator:

    ETA: I listened to a political expert claim that there is no such thing as an “independent,” and that the people who describe themselves as Independent are really just Republicans or Democrats. This “expert” is a fool.

    To first order, it’s a more accurate claim than the Broderist pundit idea that they’re all centrists looking for a No Labels party, or potential swing voters. Most of them have a definite ideological lean, and many are independents because they’re more extreme than the nearest available party, or just because they’ve been told that straight-ticket voting is for suckers.

    Remember, the Tea Party initially sold itself as a nonpartisan independent movement, and got media coverage as such.

  216. 216
    celticdragonchick says:

    @Paul in KY:

    Yes, and that is where the text says that the sexual imagery come into play so often.

    Not really my cup of tea, but I end up seeing so much of her schoolwork.

  217. 217
    Amir Khalid says:

    @burnspbesq:
    Is it field hockey, by any chance?

  218. 218
    TheMightyTrowel says:

    @celticdragonchick: it’s all about specific sorts of flint tools. It’s really not non-specialist friendly. The one I’m working on now will be complex, but much more approachable by non-archaeologists/lithic tool specialists.

    @Iowa Old Lady: Thanks :-D

  219. 219
    celticdragonchick says:

    @MattF:

    I’m not sure if he is acting in bad faith or simply that delusional. Mythology is a powerful thing and people don’t like to let go of it.

  220. 220
    Elizabelle says:

    @MattF: David Brooks is a liar, although he’s waking up. He’s as dangerous as Rush, in many ways, because he has an “elite” platform and propped up all those totebaggers more desirous of their tax treatment than the welfare of anyone else in the country.

    David Brooks is a Judith Miller level of mishire at the NY Times, it was done purposefully too. The Times’ political coverage has been egregious. I would shitcan Amy Chozick (formerly an entertainment reporter at the Wall Street Journal) and Maggie Haberman and Peter Baker (truly a Republican whisperer) and almost all of their political desk. Thinking on who I would retain there. Maybe the folks who did the money expose on the 158 families. Maybe they need to look at numbers and park the “analysis” which is anal.

    Maybe throw the floor open to regional correspondents who discuss their areas’ concerns and what the candidates say on the stump there.

    Get rid of the elite Washington Press Corpse Heathers.

  221. 221
    Elizabelle says:

    @MattF: Yes. Nihilists, anarchists and reactionaries.

  222. 222
    burnspbesq says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    Nope. Men’s ice hockey.

    Rumor has it that the Sun Devils will also be adding women’s lacrosse to their sports program in the near future, in order to balance out the effect that adding a men’s sport has put on their Title IX compliance picture.

  223. 223
    BR says:

    @Elizabelle:

    Maybe the folks who did the money expose on the 158 families. Maybe they need to look at numbers and park the “analysis” which is anal.

    Not sure they’re all that much better. The article bought into the notion that most of the families had “self made wealth” — i.e. they skimmed it off the top from everyone else (finance) or sucked it out of public land and kept the profit private (energy).

  224. 224
    celticdragonchick says:

    @TheMightyTrowel:

    My knowledge of knapping is limited to battlefield hasty actions on my musket flint, and as far as early man stuff I have some familiarity with clovis points and various scrapers you could fabricate from chert, obsidian or some other microcrystalline substance that would yield a conchoidal fracture. Not much else…history and geology degrees here but only 1 semester of anthropology. Your stuff still sounds interesting. :)

  225. 225
    Cacti says:

    Well, when you’re investigating imaginary corruption, it’s no surprise that the only corruption being outed belongs to the investigators.

  226. 226
    Brachiator says:

    @celticdragonchick:

    If women are not known to slicing up other women with knives according to criminal profilers, you don’t devote resources to trying come up with a Satanic ritualistic sacrifice scenario (spiced with xenophobia…those crazy female Americans are ruining the country!) to justify going after a young female college student. Particularly not when you already have a suspect under arrest who is a known B&E type and who left forensic evidence that definitively tied him to the crime.

    Satanic ritualistic sacrifice is a fantasy, so bad example. Aside from that, I said you follow the evidence, and we agree, if the forensic evidence tied another suspect to the crime. However, note that I did not follow the Knox case, so I don’t know whether your “definitively tied him to the crime” is correct. If this was the judgment of the officials who reviewed the case and freed Knox, then fine. But again, this would appear to be a conclusion based on the evidence, not on statistics.

    Kinda like having a dead body on the street shot multiple times with 7.62mm Russian short brass casings all over from an AK derivative and the first person you go after is the retired non-gun owning female teacher who lives nearby.

    Again, evidence rules. If the non-gun owning female teacher had a clear shot and physical evidence of having recently fired a weapon on her hands, then yeah, you go after her. Turns out she had been a sharpshooter in the Israeli army, her boyfriend was a Russian mobster, and she would do anything for him.

    @Face

    It didnt say eliminate, it said disregard. Meaning (to me, at least), let’s not focus on her involvement and look for others instead, not “let’s completely forget her altogether”. And statistics should absolutely be used for such winnowing of the possible suspect pool.

    They just arrested a Mrs California in a child pr0n case. This doesn’t change the statistics, but the facts are the facts in this particular case.

  227. 227
    TheMightyTrowel says:

    @celticdragonchick: well I think so ;-)

    The book’s all about these lovely wee beasties, so at least it’s full of pretty pictures.

  228. 228
    redshirt says:

    @burnspbesq:

    Nope. Men’s ice hockey.

    Rumor has it that the Sun Devils will also be adding women’s lacrosse to their sports program in the near future, in order to balance out the effect that adding a men’s sport has put on their Title IX compliance picture.

    My sources tell me ASU has a great chance at quickly creating a competitive Division 1 team. They have great facilities, and if you were a high school player and had to choose between UMaine or North Dakota, and ASU? The location alone will get recruits.

  229. 229
    celticdragonchick says:

    @Brachiator:

    Again, evidence rules

    The collection of which is guided by procedure and probability. You don’t start looking at wildly improbable figures until quite a bit later if evidence leads there. If women don’t kill each other with knives according to actuarial tables and criminal profilers, them YOU DO NOT START THE INVESTIGATION LOOKING AT THE FEMALE FRIEND AND THEN TRY TO SHOEHORN EVIDENCE INTO FITTING YOUR THEORY.

    Occam. Razors.

  230. 230
    celticdragonchick says:

    @TheMightyTrowel:

    You wouldn’t be Scottish would you?

  231. 231
    TheMightyTrowel says:

    @celticdragonchick: nope :) I just appreciate a good turn of phrase.

  232. 232
    boatboy_srq says:

    @Elizabelle: Brooks has always struck me as Limbaugh with pretensions of literacy and ethics. If only both sides could be reasonable; if only there weren’t BSDI Dems who wouldn’t play ball; if only the Moderate Center would reassert itself. Deliberately shutting one’s eyes to the asylum the GOTea has become is not helpful, yet Brooks has made a career of it. The sooner he figures out that the GOTea is dysfunctional beyond recovery and that Dems actually hold the high ground – or that the NYT decides that having someone just to give cover to the b#tsh!ttery on the payroll is a bad idea – the better.

  233. 233
    Brachiator says:

    @Cervantes:

    What fraction of the electorate would you say is “independent”?

    Depends on the region. Are you a California voter? If so, you should know about this already. If not, please look at some of the info below.

    @celticdragonchick
    RE: ETA: I listened to a political expert claim that there is no such thing as an “independent,” and that the people who describe themselves as Independent are really just Republicans or Democrats. This “expert” is a fool.

    Maybe, but I have seen some studies to the effect that many “independents” are really arch conservatives who think the GOP is too lefty for their tastes.

    @Elizabelle
    RE: We’ve already figured out the “No Labels” fraudsters are Republicans who are embarrassed to call themselves such.

    Let’s look at the data in California.

    In California, Independents have been increasing.

    The percentage of California voters registered as independent or decline-to-state voters as of the June 2014 primary was 21.2% —it has more than doubled since the November 1994 gubernatorial election (10.3%). Over the same period, the percentage of voters affiliated with each of the major parties has fallen: Republicans from 37.2% to 28.4%, Democrats from 49% to 43.4%.

    The GOP has taken the bigger hit in loss of support.

    In California, Independents lean toward the Democrats.

    Our surveys over the past year indicate that more independents who are likely to vote lean toward the Democratic than toward the Republican Party (42% to 30%), while 28% lean toward neither party.

    That “neither party” should worry those who think that everyone should have some ideological leaning.

    Some other observations from this study:

    Most independents say a third party is needed.
    Independents align with Democrats on some issues … … but they are an ideologically divided group.
    Independents hold unfavorable opinions of major parties but support Democrats in elections.

    http://www.ppic.org/main/publi......asp?i=784

    These independents have been consistent in their sense of dissatisfaction over the years, helped elect the Govenator Arnold, and yet happily kicked Meg Whitman to the curb. And yet a lot of political savvy people insist that these people either do not exist or are really furious Tea Party morons who just don’t want to fess up. This seems as blind to reality as any bad pundit. I don’t know how many of these people exist in other states, but even if the group is smaller as a percentage, they still would represent a sizable slice of the electorate.

    And obviously, even arch conservative “independents” may be part of the group that is causing so much trouble for the Republicans by supporting Trump, Carson and Fiorina instead of being docile, easily led sheep waiting for Jeb! or Rubio to lead them to the promised land.

  234. 234

    @celticdragonchick:

    Before she humanized Thomas Cromwell in the “Wolf Hall” series, Hillary Mantel wrote a novel about Robespierre called “A Place of Greater Safety.”

  235. 235
    celticdragonchick says:

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone):

    Cool. :)

    Also, if you didn’t get my message yesterday…Steven from Antioch seems to think I might actually be you. He doesn’t like either of us or the way we mock him.

  236. 236
    Cervantes says:

    @Brachiator:

    Thanks.

    It seems your answer to my question is that … in California, “28% lean toward neither party.” Do we know this about the California electorate because it is what 28% of those polled tell pollsters?

    As for national numbers: I’ve seen estimates in the vicinity of 10%.

  237. 237
    Elizabelle says:

    @BR: I thought the Times reporters actually handled that deftly. Maybe I need to read more closely.

    But, noticed the income was pretty much from extraction economies: resources, and hoover up money through the FIRE sector. Mitt Romney is an extractor with Bain Capital, whether anyone wants to admit it or not.

    And the self-serving: we want them to have to succeed on their own — is for their own good — that was beyond obvious.

    The exact quote: unless you’re David Brooks level of delusional and stupid, you got it:

    But regardless of industry, the families investing the most in presidential politics overwhelmingly lean right, contributing tens of millions of dollars to support Republican candidates who have pledged to pare regulations; cut taxes on income, capital gains and inheritances; and shrink entitlement programs. While such measures would help protect their own wealth, the donors describe their embrace of them more broadly, as the surest means of promoting economic growth and preserving a system that would allow others to prosper, too.

  238. 238

    @celticdragonchick:

    I think a different troll decided at one point that FlipYrWhig and I were the same person, which was pretty funny since we’re opposite genders and live on different coasts. At least Stevie got the gender right.

  239. 239

    @Brachiator:

    You may need to read upon the Knox case. It’s a really clear example of prosecutors deciding they didn’t like someone and prosecuting on that basis.

  240. 240
    Elizabelle says:

    @boatboy_srq: I wonder if Brooks will ever be honest enough to go there and praise Democrats.

    The next step is usually “we need a third party!” Moar parties!

    Get sick of how they dismiss the Democratic party. It’s like they fear it’s political vagina dentata.

  241. 241
    Pinksnapdragon says:

    @Elizabelle:
    Sounded good. Then I read the Yelp reviews…

  242. 242
    Elizabelle says:

    @Pinksnapdragon: The smoke? That was a deterrent, although not mentioned since July 2014 … what else? I skimmed, they seemed pretty good ….

  243. 243
    Brachiator says:

    @Cervantes:

    It seems your answer to my question is that … in California, “28% lean toward neither party.”

    Clearly that is only part of the story. In California, especially in statewide elections, independents easily will vote for Democrats over Republicans. This confounds some of the broad assertions here by some that independents are just conservatives who won’t fess up.

    Also, in the past several years (especially post Pete Wilson era), independents have clearly soured on the Republicans and are willing to vote for Democrats, but yet are not interested in joining the Democratic Party. The Democrats should be worried about this, instead of simply assuming that demographics will work in their favor, especially with respect to Latinos.

    Do we know this about the California electorate because it is what 28% of those polled tell pollsters?

    You would need to look into the details of how the study was done. But again, aside from what people say to pollsters, their actual voting behavior tends to confirm the study’s conclusions.

    As for national numbers: I’ve seen estimates in the vicinity of 10%.

    What are these studies based on?

    And I would think that even here you would have to consider the particular state or other slice of the electorate. National numbers might hide important trends.

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    Pinksnapdragon says:

    @Elizabelle: Yeah–Smoke kills it. Although I am fond of Persian/mediterranean food.

  245. 245
    Elizabelle says:

    @Pinksnapdragon: I’ll put up a comment as soon as I get there and let you know re the smoke. I don’t smoke, so will be sensitive to that.

    Did try to amend the original info with the smoke warning; FYWP decided I hadn’t edited in time and I noticed no Yelp review mentioned it for over a year. Hoping (against hope?) they put in a good smoke abatement system.

  246. 246
    Elizabelle says:

    @Brachiator: FWIW: I registered as an independent when I lived in California. Figured it might stop a torrent of political party mail and phone calls (and it did). If memory serves, Cali has open primaries so party registration not an obstacle.

    OTOH, Delaware voters in the 2008 primary got a terrible surprise: those who’d registered as Independents found themselves unable to cast a ballot for Barack Obama. Had to have registered as a Democrat, some time before. Sad.

  247. 247
    Bill says:

    @Brachiator:

    ETA: I listened to a political expert claim that there is no such thing as an “independent,” and that the people who describe themselves as Independent are really just Republicans or Democrats. This “expert” is a fool.

    I tend to agree with that expert. I have no idea what this alleged “independent” voter looks like. Both parties have staked out positions on the major issues of the day. Whichever side you agree with more on, is the party you belong with.(Weighted for whatever’s most important to you.) And in my experience – for most people – it’s not a close decision. It;’s not like these people are coming up with original political theory or policy positions.

    The most common form of “independent” I run in to is the “I’m socially liberally but economically conservative” type. So basically libertarians, which we all learned are just Republicans in sheep’s clothing.

  248. 248
    Bob says:

    @Gin & Tonic: A BUK missile retired from the Soviet military in 1986.

    The news outlets in the West are decidedly quiet about this. The NYTimes ran an article but wouldn’t allow comments. Otherwise, you pretty much have to go to the BBC, indicating that the US won’t be riding this pony much longer. Ukraine is broken, shattered by its own doing, thanks to our support for the fascists. Onward to Armenia!!!

  249. 249
    burnspbesq says:

    @redshirt:

    It helps that in D1 hockey (as in D1 lacrosse, both men’s and women’s), the talent pool has been growing faster than the opportunity set. In lax, we’ve seen new programs (most notably the USC women, but also the Boston University, Richmond, and High Point men) make near-immediate impacts, by finding D1-level athletes that had previously fallen through the cracks because there were more good players than there were roster spots available.

  250. 250
    Brachiator says:

    @Bill:

    The most common form of “independent” I run in to is the “I’m socially liberally but economically conservative” type. So basically libertarians, which we all learned are just Republicans in sheep’s clothing.

    This is one of the reasons I cited a study, instead of personal anecdotes based on people I’ve met.

    And it’s not an issue of “original political theory or policy positions,” it’s whether the main political parties adequately represent your views,

    What would you make of people, including people who post here, who indicate a preference for a parliamentary system and would like to see more political parties, including an official Progressive Party (however it might be constituted)? Do you think these people are just making stuff up and are really just Republicans in sheep’s clothing?

    @Elizabelle

    If memory serves, Cali has open primaries so party registration not an obstacle.

    California’s open primary system dates from 2012. It seems to be it was in some ways a result of the increase of independent and decline to state voters. If people were happy to be either Democrats or Republicans, open primaries would not be necessary.

  251. 251
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Bob: Oh, hey, Bob. Long time no see. Not in Portland any more?

    Have you looked at the report? Appendix X, if you care to read it, completely debunks the theory you were floating way back when about this being the result of a Ukrainian SU-25. But no matter – it was a SAM system, so an Occam’s Razor question presents itself: which is more likely, DNR forces shooting at what they thought was a Ukrainian Air Force plane, since the Ukrainian AF was at that time engaged in some air strikes against DNR positions, or Ukrainian military firing a SAM against a force which possessed (and still possesses) no air power?

  252. 252
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Elizabelle: People are still allowed to smoke in restaurants up there? Wow!

  253. 253
    Chris says:

    @Cervantes:

    Oh, I have no particular beef with Marie Antoinette – I even agree she’s gotten more of a bad rap than she deserves. I just don’t think it makes Burke’s hyperbolic hysteria over her execution any less fucking ridiculous.

  254. 254
    Bob says:

    @Gin & Tonic: You know, censorship is a sign that you are losing an argument. Who could hit the plane from the left side? Details, details. It wasn’t the Russians, or a weapon from Russia, as these BUKs had been taken out of service in Russia in 2011. But conceivably they could have hidden one, secretly trained Donbass rebels to use it, then smuggled it into Donbass, shot down an airliner, then smuggled it out again. Except that it hit the plane from the left side, so they would have had to smuggle it behind the battle lines over to the Ukrainian side. Tsk tsk.

    Ukraine is broken. What regions go where is the only question anymore. Kiev cannot afford a real war as it will only hasten the central government’s demise and loss of more territory, and with Nord Stream 2 it’s only a matter of time before Ukraine isn’t even strategic to the EU/Germany.

    Amazing how well Russian jets and missiles can do against ISIS in a week what the US couldn’t/wouldn’t do in a year. But keep cheering.

  255. 255
    Elizabelle says:

    @Betty Cracker: Less so, c/o a smoking ban enacted in December 2009 by Governor Tim Kaine (bitchez!). There are exceptions (private clubs, etc.), but none apply to this hookah bar serving freshly prepared food. Virginia Dept of Health FAQs.

    Restaurants have to have separate rooms, with doors between smoking and nonsmoking sections, and a ventilation system that protects the non-smoking areas.

    However, one could end up traipsing through the smoking area to get to the restrooms, and am sure some owners don’t make a fetish of having the best ventilation available.

    Hoping this restaurant upgraded its system; will send up a batsignal on that when I arrive. In Richmond, some upscale foodie places advertise their clean air in the nonsmoking sections. One Yelper called this place a beloved “dive”, so ….

  256. 256
    Brachiator says:

    @Bob:

    Amazing how well Russian jets and missiles can do against ISIS in a week what the US couldn’t/wouldn’t do in a year.

    It’s really easy to do well attacking ISIS when you talk about attacking ISIS but actually attack anti-Assad rebels.

  257. 257
    Cervantes says:

    @celticdragonchick:

    My other paper I have up is on Mary of Scots and Bess of Hardwick.

    Interesting. Are these for coursework? Both for the same course?

  258. 258
  259. 259
    Bob says:

    @Brachiator: You mean the “moderates”? Heh heh heh.

  260. 260
    Bill says:

    @Brachiator:

    What would you make of people, including people who post here, who indicate a preference for a parliamentary system and would like to see more political parties, including an official Progressive Party (however it might be constituted)? Do you think these people are just making stuff up and are really just Republicans in sheep’s clothing?

    I’m one of those people. I’d like a parliamentary system because it is more likely to give voice to my fairly far left views.

    But that’s not what I’m talking about. We don’t have a parliamentary system. We have a crappy two party system. As much as I dislike it, that’s reality. And within that two party system the parties have positions on all the relevant issues. It’s easy to find out what those positions are and which party you agree with.

    The “independent” voter isn’t actually independent of those parties. Their positions are represented in one of the two available parties. (Perhaps with some rare exceptions like Nazis. All jokes about Republicans aside.) They don’t believe something independent from the existing political infrastructure, what they’re really saying is: “I just don’t have a party I 100% agree with.”

    Bad new. Nobody has that party in this country. I’d like to, but I’d also like a pony.

  261. 261
    Cervantes says:

    @Brachiator:

    As for national numbers: I’ve seen estimates in the vicinity of 10%.

    What are these studies based on?

    Here’s an example from Gallup (18,000 interviews with Americans from 13 separate Gallup multiple-day polls, 2013):

    Democrats maintain their six-point edge in party identification when independents’ “partisan leanings” are taken into account. In addition to the 31% of Americans who identify as Democrats, another 16% initially say they are independents but when probed say they lean to the Democratic Party. An equivalent percentage, 16%, say they are independent but lean to the Republican Party, on top of the 25% of Americans identifying as Republicans. All told, then, 47% of Americans identify as Democrats or lean to the Democratic Party, and 41% identify as Republicans or lean to the Republican Party.

    That leaves a maximum of 12% being “truly independent.”

  262. 262
    Cervantes says:

    @Chris:

    Oh, I have no particular beef with Marie Antoinette – I even agree she’s gotten more of a bad rap than she deserves. I just don’t think it makes Burke’s hyperbolic hysteria over her execution any less fucking ridiculous.

    Yes, I agree that your meaning was perfectly clear. I wasn’t taking issue with what you wrote.

    Have a great evening.

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