Maybe Pope Francis doesn't want to talk about Kim Davis because the exorcism was a failure.
— Bob Schooley (@Rschooley) September 30, 2015
It may even be weirder than that joke. Jay Levine, at CBS2 Chicago:
… A highly placed source inside the Vatican claims the Pope was blindsided.
As Pope Francis was addressing a joint session of Congress, then thousands more gathered outside on the west lawn, Kim Davis, who’d become the poster child for opponents of same-sex marriage, was getting ready for a meeting with him at the Vatican embassy.
It is a meeting some charge was orchestrated by the man who lived there, the Pope’s representative here, Carlo Maria Vigano.
Not even the Papal Spokesman Federico Lombardi knew about it ahead of time. Nor did the leadership of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, which would have opposed it…
A close advisor to Pope Francis tweeted that the Pope was, in his words, “exploited” by those who set up what the CBS 2 source says was a “meeting that never should have taken place.”
Some call it an attempt by highly placed church leaders in the U.S. to diminish the impact of the Pope’s visit….
Cradle Catholic Charles P. Pierce explains it for those of you who didn’t grow up scrutinizing every priestly comment for loopholes and hidden meanings:
… First of all, let us stipulate that there are more than a few members of the Church’s permanent bureaucracy, both within the Clan Of The Red Beanie and without, who are not happy that this gentleman got elected Pope, and who are not happy with what he’s done and said since he was. Second, let us stipulate that many members of this group are loyal to both former pope Josef Ratzinger and, through him, to the memory (and to what they perceive as the legacy) of John Paul II who, for good and ill, had a much different idea of how to wield a papacy than Papa Francesco does. Third, let us stipulate that this opposition to the current pope has been active and vocal, to say nothing of paranoid. Finally, let us stipulate that, for over 2000 years, the Vatican has been a hotbed of intrigue, betrayal, and sanctified ratfcking on a very high scale. (It also has been a hotbed of, well, hot beds, but that’s neither here nor there at the moment.) So, if you’re one of these people, and you’re looking to ratfck the pope’s visit to the United States, and to his agenda in general, you’d be looking to put him in a box. So, how would you do that?…
Much more detail about the various pious ratfvckers actors at the link.
***********
Apart from keeping in mind that no bureaucracy survives several centuries without developing great skill at self-preservation, what’s on the agenda as we wrap up another tangled week?
MattF
Yeah, that’s what I sorta suspected. Remember, 95% of the Vatican denizens are religious fanatics.
Elizabelle
Very brief story that just went up on the NY Times website about 20 minutes ago, in its entirety.
I look forward to hearing that Papal Nunciate Vigale is winging his way to Rome soon, for a meeting with Francis or his officials, and then retires early or is dispatched to someplace uncomfortable and remote.
Elizabelle
This could play out well for Pope Francis. Gets to clean house, and make it clear he is a new broom and that these are some old loyalists past their sell by date.
Also, remind people why they left the Church. So sick of this small mindedness.
bjacques
Papal Nunciate Vigale’s next posting could be Craggy Island. If Kim Davis weren’t such a Joan of Ass (the opposite of Joan of Arc – h/t the late Steve Gilliard) I’d applaud her for trolling the Pope.
Gimlet
Appalachian Trail to get about 18 inches of rain Saturday per WU. Almost as wet as the Tampa area.
https://twitter.com/wunderground/status/649728787198816256/photo/1
Fred
I’ve heard mention that Vigano may be on his way to another, less sensitive post. Perhaps the Galapagos Islands to save the souls of the tortoises there.
Elizabelle
@Fred: With frequent trips, via rickety boats, to Easter Island. Should give him a lot of time to reflect.
Elizabelle
@Gimlet: Wow. That sounds dangerous. All that water, flowing down mountains and through crevices and streams.
sm*t cl*de
@Elizabelle:
Assumes reflection in mirror not in evidence.
Gimlet
@Fred:
Transfer him to Rowan County, Kentucky so he can live out his days with the common folk instead of the modern world.
Robert Sneddon
@Elizabelle: Washing away hillsides, destroying homes, flooding out roads and businesses, stranding travellers, killing people…
JPL
@Elizabelle: This is the headline now… Pope Francis’ Meeting Wasn’t an Endorsement of Kim Davis’s Views, Vatican Says
The message is the same but they added another paragraph.
I hope the media covers it.
Phylllis
Rain and more rain. Cooler temps are a nice treat. Contemplating the best way to (metaphorically) slice up a co-worker who came close to blowing up a $300,000 grant project because she’s an ignorant, provincial twit.
Elizabelle
@JPL: Charles Pierce called it. And fie on those commenters at his site who told him he was conspiracist.
The Davis meeting was so unlike the rest of his visit and message. Knew there was something hinky about it. I think the story will be covered (although big news day already: the latest mass murder at a US college and the approaching storms), because people were interested in the Pope’s visit, and a lot welcome change.
burnspbesq
This Pope is a lot more popular with rank and file Catholics than he is within the bureaucracy. I’m only half kidding when I say that I hope his food tasters have lots of life insurance.
Keith G
So does this mean that Pope Frank is in a situation a bit analogous to John Boehner – a staunch conservative having to deal with the actions of the Vatican’s very own Tea Party Caucus?
BruceFromOhio
Exorcising that nasty county clerk busybody from my fucking news feed forever. Don’t care, don’t care to know. And FFS, her Gaia-damned 15-minutes were over weeks ago. Enough already.
Patricia Kayden
@Elizabelle: Thanks for this. Kim Davis is acting as if the Pope beatified her or something which is so misleading.
Morzer
Reposting this because I thought AL and BC might enjoy it:
http://www.wired.com/2015/10/peeple-the-thing-versus-peeple-the-app/
A nice little bit of news: apparently the Stasimoms and their app “Peeple” are stepping on the toes of an already existing company, also named “Peeple”:
bystander
I’m not Catholic and not inclined to see beyond the conspicuous pageantry and opulent optics, knowing whose blood paid for all of it. But I thought at least this guy is setting an example for how the Church should operate and on what it should focus its concerns. So, I’m happy to read that Pierce’s speculations were on the money. He’s no David Brooks, but I like Pierce. He gave us “Tribble Top” and “Goggle Eyed Homunculu,” too.
qwerty42
Ed Kilgore, at Washington Monthly, brought this up Thursday afternoon.
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal-a/2015_10/the_case_for_the_pope_getting057905.php
I’m thinking the general idea in such cases is not to leave any fingerprints, so it may be these guys are not as good at intrigue as they think they are (now back in the day…).
qwerty42
@Robert Sneddon: The whole East Coast, and centered in the Carolinas. A lot of rain. And that’s without Joaquin. Dennis Mersereau at Gawker’s “The Vane”:
http://thevane.gawker.com/more-than-a-foot-of-rain-is-possible-on-the-east-coast-1734067198
Morzer
It’s nice to see that apparently Pope Frankie did not voluntarily fall into Kim Davis’ Heffalump trap. That wretched fraud and her advisers have an interesting view of Christian ethics to say the least.
Another Holocene Human
@Elizabelle: Oh, shit.
Frankie just burned his ass.
And the people whose first reaction was “Kim Davis is lying” have just been vindicated.
Another Holocene Human
@bjacques: If she weren’t such an ass, it wouldn’t be trolling!
Amir Khalid
I’d heard the story of the woman, the bear and her kayak. Now that I’ve seen the video, I’m not sure why she thought arguing with a bear might work.
OzarkHillbilly
@JPL:
Oh they’ll cover it alright… with a blanket.
Another Holocene Human
@Phylllis:
“I’m surrounded by assholes!”
I’m contemplating a career change. I don’t wanna be in charge of nothin’, I like numbers, I like people, I like transportation, but I can’t stand working with fucking idiots. What to do….
(I’d like to do research, but I don’t know who would fund me.)
BruceFromOhio
@Amir Khalid: “This video is restricted. You must be approved to view it.”
Alas, I am not worthy. Or I need a permission slip from my mom.
Bobby Thomson
@Gimlet: TMI.
Another Holocene Human
@qwerty42: They spent a looooong time, especially in Pope years, in the Pontiff’s favor, and have forgotten how to do this, if they ever knew.
Honus
@Elizabelle: and the ground is soaked already from a huge rain this week. There was a foot of water over the road to my house outside Crozet when I drove home Tuesday afternoon where I’d never seen water before. We’re at about 500′ elevation, at the base of the sugar hollow part of Shenandoah national park. I expect the road will washed out and closed this weekend and we’ll have to stay in and watch baseball and TCM and eat leftover barbecue.
Honus
@Robert Sneddon: hey robert, take it easy. We’ve got to live here. We just got over the 2012 derecho.
Bobby Thomson
@Amir Khalid: black bear, not a brown bear. She should have been trying to scare it away, not just piss it off.
Amir Khalid
@BruceFromOhio:
Try the story at TIME. Basically, the bear approaches the woman; she says to it, “Thank you for leaving my kayak alone.” As the bears gets closer to her, she pepper-sprays it in the face, and it responds by going back to her kayak and destroying it. Then she’s all “Bear, stop that! Why are you eating my kayak?” Etc. Hilarious.
Phylllis
@Another Holocene Human: Said coworker blew off the initial project meeting because her husband was going to Atlanta that day & wanted her to ride with him /eyeroll. Then made no effort to touch base with me prior to the second meeting to learn what she had missed. Apparently she determined that shooting her mouth off and treating our partner like an adversary who was trying to take her job away from her was the reasonable path.
I like all the things you referenced as well. I think when I move on from here in 2.5 years, my ideal job would be driving a shuttle for offsite airport parking or a hotel.
Elizabelle
Mark Halperin is on the side of the angels today. He’s calling out Morning Joe and some guest with a plum accent who are trying to tell us gun control is so complicated and we can’t do pat solutions. (That’s a Joe quote.)
Yea for Mark! He got flustered on the guest’s “so what would YOU do?”
This guest is on to point out what unsophisticated rubes us folks in horror at mass shootings be. It’s complicated. Leave it to us adults. (To slow pedal …)
Howard Dean suggests making those who sold/provided the guns to the shooter liable. Yes!
Now Joe is talking about “knee jerk reactions.” He should know.
Elizabelle
@burnspbesq: Someone on Pierce’s comment thread said it’s no surprise the Pope moved to spartan accommodations outside the papal apartment. And he eats communally. Poisoner gonna have to take out the whole group.
Honus
@Keith G: worse. A tea party caucus That’s smart and cunning and has been running the show for 700-800 years. Fortunately Francis has the Jesuits (and I suspect some other factions) to get his back and as Charlie pierce says “you don’t mess with The Society” some of these ratf*ckrs may find that out, although I also believe hat Francis is a little above worrying about what they have to say in politico or on morning joe.
Elizabelle
@Honus: You live in a beautiful area of the state. May the TCM cable connection be with you! And may you all escape damage and harm.
Concerning about that foot of water, already. I know it was raining in Sperryville and Luray over the weekend (at least per weather reports); stopped me from venturing over to Skyline Drive …
Woodrowfan
@burnspbesq: better than JP the 1st did.
JPL
@Elizabelle: Sounds about right.
Patricia Kayden
@Elizabelle: I wonder if it’s too late in the U.S. to do anything about gun violence. It feels as if the NRA has overwhelming political support for its “absolutely no regulations” position. I interned briefly at the Brady Center back in the late 1990s and felt sorry for the attorneys because back then it seemed like a hopeless endeavor. It still feels hopeless.
Seems like we gawk whenever there’s a shooting and then go back to our other business shortly thereafter. Over and over again.
But it’s good to hear that Halperin is pushing back against Joe & Co. I’m surprised that Mika isn’t also speaking out in favor of sensible gun control.
Baud
@Patricia Kayden:
You never know when the inflection point will hit that will change people’s minds. That’s why it’s important to keep pushing the issue.
Elizabelle
@Patricia Kayden: Mika got some steel in her spine once Mark spoke up.
Then they switched topics, pretty soon after.
Honus
@Bobby Thomson: beating a couple pans together has always worked for me. Bears hate that sound. The woman’s screeching was probably too organic and didnt bother the bear.
Elizabelle
@Patricia Kayden: I think the worm is turning. (And good to you for your work with the Brady Center!) I think people are sick of seeing the wall to wall coverage, and nothing changes.
This one happened in Oregon. It could have happened anywhere. Just about anywhere. None of us are safe, and those who think they are are fools. As President Obama pointed out, very well, last night.
I am not focusing on the details of this one. I am just mad.
qwerty42
@Honus: ” worse. A tea party caucus That’s smart and cunning and has been running the show for 700-800 years. …” Yeah, but I don’t think they’re as smart as they think they are. And also yeah, a Jesuit. The SJ is not without intel or resources.
OzarkHillbilly
@Patricia Kayden:
It’s too late (for you) when you’re dead.
ThresherK (GPad)
@Amir Khalid: Someone shoulda taught her that “bear” cannot be substituted into the brainteaser about getting a fox, a goose, and a sack of corn across the river on a canoe.
Honus
@Elizabelle: that’s my main worry, that the the rain will make the satellite dish go out. Then we’ll be reduced to trying to get the Jazz show on the public radio station from Richmond.
Elizabelle
@Honus: And The Electric Crab. (That still on?)
We needed a tad more rain, to maybe get better fall colors. But …
Another Holocene Human
@Phylllis:
Make sure it’s unionized. Or in a state with such stringent labor protections and an activist AG’s office that it amounts to the same thing.
eta: actually, I missed where you said “hotel”. That might be cool. Ask the existing drivers about stuff before you apply.
Sherparick
@Patricia Kayden: On our favorite Wing-nut sites (Free Republic, Pam Geller, etc, this guy in rural Oregon is being portrayed as Muslim Jihadist inspired by Obama’s War on Christianity!! The evidence for this is of course “nada,” but when has that ever stopped them. See SteveM at no more Mr. Nice Blog http://nomoremister.blogspot.com/2015/10/after-this-mass-shooting-gunners-are.html#links
These people are so evil, greedy, and cruel.
NotMax
Another nut with another gun.
U.S. man killed 3 people, including baby, because they wouldn’t move out
Honus
@Elizabelle: I don’t recall the electric crab. Was that on WCVE? There’s a jazz show from there at night that we can get on our old McIntosh tuner if the conditions are just right. Of course it is also on the internet now but it’s so much more fun trying to get a slightly staticky stereo signal over the air. And we can always get WTJU from UVA.
Elizabelle
@Honus: I think so. Might be gone. I love radio with actual hosts and a curated playlist. And UVa college radio. Wish more radio could be like that.
debbie
@JPL:
I cannot wait to hear Davis’s attorney’ reaction.
Chyron HR
She only got a rosary, a kindly word.
I wouldn’t say the holy father gave her the bird,
But papal decorations? Never a hope.
Sherparick
Apparently, the guy may have posted on 4chan and that collection of lonely hearts encouraged him to vent his rage on the world. Now those folks would be on my list of people who should never be able to get within 1 mile of a gun. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3256735/Don-t-school-tomorrow-northwest-Disturbing-warning-message-appears-4Chan-night-shooting-Oregon-college.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490
Elizabelle
Ah, the guy with the plummy accent on Morning Joe, telling us gun control is so complicated … writes for The National Review. Uh huh.
debbie
@Patricia Kayden:
It’s never too late.
I think the answer is to shame the NRA and its supporters. Make them answer questions like, “Why are your Second Amendment rights more important than another human being’s life?” Ferret out (so to speak) the people who oppose both abortion and gun control and ask them how they justify this contradiction. Get all ACT UP in their faces.
JPL
@debbie: It’s not going to happen. The lawyer will just ignore the latest news.
Ozark said the news will throw a blanket on it, and it appears he was right. There wasn’t a peep so far on the station, I listen to in the morning.
D58826
OT but if the Reuters report is correct, yesterday’s shooter is a self identified mix race, conservative heterosexual Republican. Ouch Faux news that’s going to hurt
Elizabelle
A tale of two headlines, at the NY Times website:
Baud
@JPL:
It’s reported in the NYT today.
Baud
@D58826:
Mixed race? I knew it? /Fox
Gimlet
Now is not the time…
https://mycorporateblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/tomtomorrow.jpg
Morzer
@Baud:
No True Republican will be reporting for duty any minute now.
beltane
@debbie: Yes, they need to be revealed as the deviants they are. The percentage of Americans who own guns has been steadily declining while the percentage of gun owners stockpiling weapons has increased. We tend to walk on eggshells around these nuts because they are loud, aggressive bullies who threaten violence at the slightest provocation. Fear of the gun lobby does not equal support for the gun lobby’s positions.
Kay
@debbie:
I think they’re all about power so they’re more likely to respond to an accusation of weakness. They’re “weak” and “ineffective” and “helpless”. They are too frightened to ACT, unable to respond, blindsided by another mass shooting, unprepared. Whether or not they should have invaded and occupied Iraq didn’t bother them at all- LOSING in Iraq bothered them.
Elizabelle
@Gimlet: That’s so perfect.
And loving the links!
Shana
I’m finishing up my MIL’s move from one nursing home to another. We got her moved, her extra furniture and stuff moved to storage for eventual move to an auction site later in October, took loads and loads of stuff to Goodwill, helped her settle in to the new place. This morning the SIL who has been doing this along with me, who has been an amazing companion and enormous ally and helper, and I will pick up a few things for the new place, have lunch with MIL and then head back toward DC to try to miss the worst of the rain, getting in sometime mid-Saturday, then SIL gets a train back to NYC. Whew, I think I need a week to recover. Lot’s of physical work plus the emotional stuff.
beltane
@Elizabelle: It’s too early for me to read Brook’s garbage right now but I’m sure it will be properly analysed and mocked later in the day.
Morzer
@debbie:
I still think the best way would be to put them on the map like pedophiles. Have maps where parents and concerned family members can check if there are NRA members living in their neighborhood near to their kids and their schools. Sunlight is the best disinfectant, so lets dial the sun up to 11 and see how these thugs like it.
David Koch
The Other Bob
Doesn’t lying about the Pope’s action send your straight to hell? I think I saw a rule about that somewhere.
beltane
@The Other Bob: Kim Davis is an evangelical Christian, not a Catholic. In her mind it is the Pope who is going straight to hell. Lying in general seems to be a sacrament among people like her.
debbie
@David Koch:
Hmm, Harper doesn’t sound like an African American BLM member or a Mooslum. I am giddy with expectation at Glenn Beck’s reaction to this.
JPL
@David Koch: CBS News said that the murderer was interested in white supremacy and the IRA. His father issued a statement and he has an Irish brogue.
The Other Bob
@beltane:
Not arguing, but she did see a benefit to meeting with him.
Baud
@David Koch:
I did not realize that.
beltane
I wonder what the conservative Republican murderer’s views on Planned Parenthood were.
Elizabelle
@David Koch: NYTimes makes shooter sound a little in Adam Lanza territory. Personality disorder, maybe mental illness? Check. Devoted mom, trying to smooth life for him in the outside world? Check.
(And how sad for moms in this position. Not poking at the parents. Just pointing out you had another disordered young male, who was able to access powerful guns.) Alienation. Possible mental health issues. Guns.
debbie
@Morzer:
I like your idea!
There’s a guy in my neighborhood with two huge Rottweilers. He walks them in the morning, and he’s usually struggling to keep them in line, especially when the dogs want to go in different directions. If they chose to, those dogs would rip his arms off.
I was attacked by a Rottweiller years ago, so the sight of them makes me nervous. The thought of them was ruining my morning walks. I tracked down the local animal control officer on Facebook and asked to know where this guy lived so I could avoid the area.
She didn’t provide the address (and I didn’t push), but she did give me a couple-block range, so I knew where to keep my eyes open. I later happened to see him walking up a driveway so now I have the address.
I have no intention of picketing his house, but I am letting friends, etc., know the location in case they want to steer clear.
Why not the same thing for guns?
Bruuuuce
On a different note from all the other fun things, it looks like there have been two large data breaches in the last few days. Experian says 15 million T-Mobile customers may have had data exposed, including SocSec numbers but not banking data and hackers have dumped the entire database of crowdfunding site Patreon online.
If it’s connected, it’s hackable.
OzarkHillbilly
@Morzer:
All you have to do is walk around your neighborhood and check for bumper stickers. These people advertise.
Belafon
@Keith G: It reminds me more of Gorbachev trying to reform the Soviet Union without destroying it. We’ll see if Francis is better at it.
Patrick
@Elizabelle:
Yet, just about the rest of the countries in Western Europe seem to be handle it just fine. Why is it too complicated for the greatest nation ever invented?
Baud
Joaquin is pulverizing the Bahamas.
Jeffro
I’m trying to wrap my head around how we put a stop to this stuff, in a country where gun ownership is basically enshrined in the Constitution (and thus an “Australian solution” is not possible). Thinking about various public health campaigns that have been successful – MADD, seat belt wearing, anti-smoking – as well as various other possibilities.
– requiring trigger locks
– requiring permanent ownership (no re-sales of any kind)
– having a per-person limit in terms of # of firearms
– banning any sort of large capacity magazines
– requiring a family, friend, doctor, and work reference in order to get a gun (might help address the mental health angle?)
– requiring a firearms safety course before each gun purchase
– making gun dealers and manufacturers liable for as much of the above as possible
– PSAs all over the place for as much of the above as possible
– taxing the snot out of weapons and especially ammunition (you have a right to bear arms; you don’t have a right for it to be cheap)
– once all of the above is in place, having massive gun buybacks/tax credits
– ?
Morzer
@OzarkHillbilly:
I personally wouldn’t be keen to wander round the driveways of those people. I also think that part of why putting them on the map would be effective is that it would strip away the almost complete anonymity these creeps rely on to intimidate and to flourish. Make sure that if there is a shooting, the whole community knows where to find the gunfuckers, that businesses can check whether they are hiring them. Force them to own public responsibility in their own names for their advocacy and the deaths and maimings to which it has contributed.
rikyrah
No, Conservatives: Cop-Loving Republican Shooter Was NOT A Black Lives Matter Protester (SCREENSHOTS)
In their desperate attempt to demonize black people, conservatives have jumped on a completely unsubstantiated, easily disproved rumor regarding UCC shooter Chris Harper-Mercer — specifically, that he was a Black Lives Matter protester. Unfortunately for them, facts are a thing, and Harper-Mercer’s writings reveal that he was not quite in line with the movement. One could even say that he would side with the opposite end of the spectrum, the Police Lives Matter “movement,” if forced to choose. In fact, he said it himself
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/10/02/no-conservatives-cop-loving-republican-shooter-was-not-a-black-lives-matter-protester-screenshots/
Bruuuuce
@Jeffro: Requiring a demonstrated proficiency for licensing, renewable every two or five years. Certainly includes static targets, might include moving targets and/or pop-ups (including targets NOT to shoot). That should cut down the licensed holders significantly.
Gin & Tonic
@qwerty42: Yeah, the SJ has been, um, takin’ care of business in complex areas for nearly 500 years. I’d not fuck with them.
Baud
Bad jobs numbers.
Phylllis
@Another Holocene Human: Forget it Jake, it’s South Carolina. But that is good advice about chatting with existing drivers.
Elizabelle
@Jeffro: All of the above.
Have a real background check, and don’t insist it be “instant.” If you need the gun that badly, at that instant, you need to go to the police for protection. Maybe you should even apply, about a month before you need the gun.
We don’t hand out passports on demand, instantly. Why should we hand out permission to own a deadly weapon, pretty much on the spot.
I noticed Bernie Sanders saying “Instant” every time he said background check.
No. It’s too important to be undone by paperwork not hitting the computer in time.
“Right to vote” does not mean you get to choose to register your vote. In August.
“Right to bear arms” needs some serious regulation too, and continued monitoring of those who own guns. Make it a one or two year license. Have a way people can advise the gun owner is no longer safe around guns. (Serious depression, PTSD, dementia.)
California, I think, is seeing a real problem with gun owners suffering from dementia posing a threat to their caregivers, as they arrive.
Situations change. We have the right to a military, but that does not mean we draft octagenarians into it.
bystander
@OzarkHillbilly: Any guesses what the coverage would have been if HRC had claimed to have had a private audience with the Pope and it turned out she had been snuck in on a bus tour?
jibeaux
@bystander: I think, IRRC, that zombie-eyed granny starver is his, too.
OzarkHillbilly
@Morzer: You don’t have to wander up their driveways. “I”M THE NRA AND I VOTE” is readable from a hundred feet away.
Elizabelle
Wiki on gun politics (regulation) in Switzerland. Lots of common sense, public safety measures in there.
With links to gun regulation in other countries too.
Switzerland monitors ammo purchases. Hard to tell if their policy, applied to US, would have stopped Aurora theatre shooter James Holmes, because don’t know if his mental issues made it to the authorities’ notice. That he was buying a shit ton of ammo, though, might have gotten a closer look.
But privacy practices might have to change too, for genuine public safety and health reasons. Would have stopped the Germanwings mass killing by pilot.
OzarkHillbilly
@Morzer:
Also, I’m not sure what gunfuckin’ creeps you are referring to but around here, like I said, they advertise. Whatever else they may be, anonymous ain’t one of ’em.
D58826
@rikyrah: Reading some of the comments at that link, esp. Vanguard14, and you have to wonder are there that many rocks on the planet for these people to crawl out from under. I guess there has always been the dark side of humanity and the interttubes just lets them crawl out into the sunlight w/o risking their true identity
Morzer
@OzarkHillbilly:
Yes, they advertise on bumper stickers. That’s not the same thing as having anyone in the community within 5 miles know exactly who you are and where you are.
beltane
@Elizabelle: Last month, a Vermont woman with a lengthy history of mental health issues and misdemeanor convictions (pleas bargained down from felonies) shot and killed three people, including a social worker. The police found the Wal-Mart receipt for the ammo right there in her bedroom.
OzarkHillbilly
@Morzer: No it’s not. And I think you need to think about what you are proposing and the ways in which such a thing can be abused. I seem to recall a certain nation where everyone of a certain religious persuasion had to advertise what they were every where they went.
Keith
@Jeffro: Why not the Swiss solution – amended to fit the American urge for excess.
All the guns you want. (That is the excess part).
But they all have to be locked up.
There is no concealed carry, unless you are a peace officer or similar individual.
As for ammunition, that requires the same permits as those demanded for acquiring the gun(s) in the first place.
Guns and Ammo can only be transported (to a hunt or shooting range) apart from one another. No loaded weaponry travels ever.
bemused
@Elizabelle:
That’s just disgusting even for Joe.
Did anyone bring up how incredibly stupid it is congress won’t allow gun death record keeping?
Belafon
@OzarkHillbilly: And we all know about gun religions.
Did you know that every ham radio operator has to register with the government? You, as a citizen, can go to the FCC website and look up the name and address of a ham radio operator if you know the call sign, which a lot of them put on their license plates.
Elizabelle
@Jeffro:
Yeah. Throw the “you don’t deserve affordable healthcare (or other good thing)” argument back at the gun owning crowd.
Then they can whine about their right to bear arms, but it’s too expensive, so it’s no right at all.
Also, they probably have a right to own yachts and private aircraft too. Doesn’t mean it needs to be affordable to everyone who wants one.
Chris
@debbie:
This is kind of the bottom line underlying the whole gun debate for me. Yes, I think it’d be nice to have reasonable regulation that respects the Responsible Gun Owners and leaves room for people to own such things… But at the end of the day, I can’t pretend I’d give a shit even if there was some kind of blanket ban on guns of the type the NRA fears. It’s a deadly fucking weapon. Owning one should not be in the same category of rights as freedom of religion, speech, assembly, petition, and the press. (And not getting to own one, as is the case in various European countries, does not make you the oppressed citizen of a Stalinist dystopia). It’s a luxury, and whether or not you get to indulge in it should come a very distant second to basic public safety concerns.
SiubhanDuinne
@David Koch:
This strikes me as a pretty damned significant piece of information (assuming it’s true). Shades of École Polytechnique 1989.
Odd that none of the talking heads has picked up on this (again, assuming it’s true). Or maybe not, considering how they cover for the worst misogyny among the GOP presidential candidates. But they are all over the anti-Christian angle.
Botsplainer
Here’s the thing that gun fuckers never consider – these things go down so goddamn fast. When that guy was rushing my car with his pistol up, there was zero time for me to actually address it. Had I been rolling strapped, even if it was out and in easy reach, I’d have been dead. Only by the fact that my hands came up immediately and I announced that there were two of us did I live it out – I didn’t mistake the look on his face. Thank Gaia he was smart enough to realize he couldn’t cook up a double shooting explanation.
Carrying is only good if you have time to react and really good defensive training – I relied on de-escalation, which worked.
FlipYrWhig
@Jeffro:
I know that the Court has made it so the ship has already sailed on this, but, gun ownership isn’t basically enshrined in the Constitution. The 2nd Amendment basically means the people have the right to form citizen militias. Private gun ownership has nothing to do with that. Restricting it sharply would be fine, Constitutionally speaking, IMHO and IANAL. Unfortunately for sanity and safety’s sake, restricting private gun ownership very little would _also_ be fine, Constitutionally speaking. So I don’t think a different interpretation of the 2A would do very much to affect the debate over guns. Awful people would still lobby for them and play to impressionable people’s fears of Those People in the process.
Jack the Second
@debbie: (a) In upstate New York, gun nuts already advertise via the ‘REPEAL THE SAFE ACT’ signs which have been in front of houses for the last 3-4 years.
(b) They kinda *want* you to be scared of them, give them a wide berth. Terrorizing their neighbors is the only way they can deal with being constantly, pants-wettingly scared of the world and everything in it.
villageidocy
@Elizabelle:
WTMD out of Townson, Maryland. Check them out on-line. I know that won’t help if your internet connection goes out, but it has real people with real musical opinions. And local Balitmorean events if that floats your boat. No classical or jazz, I’m afraid.
A guy
The pope has a history of being hoodwinked. The first time was by his climate change consultant. I’m seeing a pattern here.
debbie
@Botsplainer:
Overnight on BBC radio, the host interviewed the leader of an Oregon gun rights group who insisted if everyone had had a gun at the school, there would have been few, if any, casualties. The Brit’s stunned silence said it all.
Gin & Tonic
Nothing worse than a boring troll.
nominus
Long ago in my NRA days, the frequent refrain was that cars kill more people than guns do, but nobody was talking about banning cars. That gave me an unpopular idea: require licensing and INSURANCE. Licenses are a joke, just as they are for drivers, but I am required to carry liability insurance for the cars I own and operate, I see no reason why gun owners should not be required to carry liability insurance on the guns they own. Obviously the insurance industry would love to have a new revenue stream.
Elizabelle
The NYTimes public editor: yup, we goofed on the Kissinger book review:
Oh for dog’s sake. A minute or two with the Google would have divulged the reviewer’s background. This is the NY Times — (now the Judith Miller NY Times) — and this editor thinks authors should self-disclose?
Patrick
@Botsplainer:
Yup. And a fair number of those that have a legal right right carry – “law-abiding citizens” – have absolutely no clue what the hell they are doing. Like the idiot in my grocery store who shot himself accidentally in the men’s restroom. I still remember the screams of children when people were desperately running out of the store. This, all due to a “law-abiding citizen” and his stupid gun.
Elizabelle
@nominus: Licensing and Insurance would do it.
Insurance might save us from too many guns in unsound hands, and too many homes in environmentally sensitive areas.
Chris
@Belafon:
Exactly – I’ve been comparing Pope Francis to Andropov and Gorbachev ever since he came into office.
This also means that, while I like him as a reformer, I also don’t entertain any illusions that he’s a modern, post-Enlightenment, Western-style liberal democrat. Obviously he thinks of himself as a good Catholic, the same way Andropov and Gorbachev still thought of themselves as good communists, and he sees his work as restoring the true faith. That will include some fairly… how can I say this charitably… unenlightened positions on social issues, particularly women’s rights and gay rights, just as even Gorbachev’s vision of an ideal USSR would probably still have included a lot of things Westerners wouldn’t be keen on.
So while I wasn’t happy with the Kim Davis thing, I also wasn’t surprised. He is still the leader of a fundamentally anti-gay institution. The fact that he’s started shining an aspect on all the other parts of the Catholic message, and is doing away with the old hypocrisy under which the Church pretended that abortion and gay marriage were the only things that mattered, doesn’t change that.
The surprising thing in the whole Kim Davis story wasn’t the “revelation” so many of my Facebook friends seemed to have that the Pope was still cool with homophobia – of course he is. It was more the idea that he’d involve himself in such a tiny, culturally specific incident that nobody outside of America has heard of and even most of America thinks is a nothingburger. I can totally see the Fox-friendly clergy setting him up to take part in their pet cause, and him arriving all “wait, what? Uhhh… yeah, okay. Whatever you want.”
Elizabelle
@Botsplainer: Also, why are all these cops getting killed? And soldiers. Aren’t they vigilant, trained, and many carry arms?
And John Q Citizen is going to be the bulletproof Rambo savior of the day? Tell me another fantasy.
It’s magical thinking. Time to expose it. The person with the gun out already has the element of surprise and time on his side.
ThresherK
@Shana: Good on ya for that. My MiL lived to 92 and it was not easy to get her to give up living in her house for the last few years of her infirmities.
That house was on a hilly dead-end unpaved street with precious few neighbors around, and she stayed there for several years after she gave up her license (no transportation, of course, because America). We were immeasurably relieved when the accountant convinced her that she wouldn’t end up in the poorhouse if she went into assisted living.
(And, yes, she was raised during the Depression, as was her husband.)
FlipYrWhig
@nominus: Would insurance companies issue policies, though? I feel like it’d be like flood insurance: the people who “need” the coverage are at such high risk that no one would want to sell one to them. Federal gun insurance?
Chris
@Elizabelle:
@Keith:
I’ve always thought the Swiss had the most sensible approach of all, but it’s also completely tied in with their concept of military service. Yes, almost anyone can own a gun. That’s because almost everyone is in the reserves and has done some kind of military service. That’s your background check, your gun registration, and your weapons certification training all rolled in together right there.
Elizabelle
@Chris: We’d be safer with more citizen exposure to military service, too.
These wars of convenience would be less likely if we were not depending on a very small segment of our population to volunteer to bear all the risk, out of sight of the rest of us. Who are told to go out shopping.
Switzerland has a few things right in the guns and citizenship relationship.
Belafon
@A guy: Hey, a shithead, once again: the college was not a gun free zone: http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/10/01/3708256/ucc-was-not-a-gun-free-zone-because-public-colleges-in-oregon-cant-ban-guns/.
There were people on campus with guns who didn’t pull them out because they knew they could be mistaken for the actual shooter.
ET
I think in an earlier thread there was talk about how this was a PR failure on the Pope’s part. After reading this I have to add a bit of nuance. This seems to be less him inserting himself in US politics in a heavy handed way and more someone seems to have played him.
Patrick
@Belafon:
Even the right-wing Wall Street Journal admitted the same thing in an article this morning
beth
@SiubhanDuinne:
This, I think, is something that’s going to turn out to be all wrong. It seems to be taken from one hospital’s tweet – the hospital treated three victims and tweeted that “all the victims were female”. I can’t find the tweet now but it seemed to me that they were referring to only the ones brought to that specific hospital. I’m sure we’ll learn more today as the names of the dead get released.
A guy
It was a gun free zone. Moreover, the shooter certainly considered it one. And if somebody had a gun in violation of the schools policy and failed to pull it out that is their choice. I would have pulled mine
gelfling545
@Jack the Second: Have been thinking of getting stickers printed with the word “expand” on them to slap on the signs these fools post. I pulled one out of my sister in law’s lawn & stomped on it. It was not well received.
MomSense
As parents do after school/mass shootings, I asked my son if they knew what to do in the event of a shooter at their school.
They do practice drills occasionally and he explained to me that they have a protocol for their backpacks and that they have to do different things depending on which room they are in. Classroom doors do not lock. Some classroom doors have windows. Not all classrooms have a second means of egress.
I feel like the fucking congress critters who are so careless with our children should be presented with a YOOOOOGE fucking bill to make our schools defensible or they should pass some fucking gun violence prevention legislation.
I’m not joking about this. I’m going to contact the school board and superintendent and ask them about coming up with a plan for how much it would cost. We should do this in every town and let the assholes in congress sweat over what they care about most. Guns or money?
Gin & Tonic
I was mistaken. The one thing worse than a boring troll is an Internet tough guy.
Elizabelle
@villageidocy: Thank you! Will do.
Towson’s a cool little town.
Bill
@Elizabelle:The statement by the Vatican is devoid of substance. While it says “..his meeting with her should not be considered a form of support of her position in all of its particular and complex aspects,” It offers no explanation of why the Vatican says that. It doesn’t say he doesn’t support her position. It also doesn’t refute her lawyer’s statement that the Pope told her to “stay strong.” Certainly there are reasons to meet with her that don’t show support for her position, the Vatican has done nothing to refute her stated position that the Pope offered his support though. If she is lying, Francis could easily issue a statement saying so.
Let’s assume Francis was blind sided by the visit. And at some point he finds himself standing in front of a woman whose face has been all over the news for months because of her homophobia. (I don’t buy that he wouldn’t know who she is, but if that’s the case he’s seriously out of touch.) He could easily deliver a message like: “Ms Davis, God calls us to love all people and render under Caesar what is Caesar’s.” Apparently that’s not the route he decided to go though.
Francis is better at messaging than his predecessor, but I see nothing to indicate the message is actually different.
Darkrose
@Chyron HR: Well played, even if Kim Davis is on the Anti Rainbow Tour b
Elizabelle
@MomSense: How awful. Duck and cover was memorable enough.
The congresscritters do not live in the same awful world they’ve delivered us into.
CNN has John Lott on. He is sticking to his message to the lizardbrain, keeps repeating it and repeating it. “As soon as guns are restricted, murder rates go up.” The anchor keeps questioning him and he won’t shake. Just delivers that message to the gun humpers out there.
Germy Shoemangler
“Oregon is one of seven states, either from state legislation or court rulings, with provisions allowing the carrying of concealed weapons on public postsecondary campuses, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. The other states are Colorado, Idaho, Kansas, Mississippi, Utah, and Wisconsin.”
Botsplainer
@MomSense:
When my kids were in elementary school, I made sure they knew:
1) what a real gun sounded like;
2) how to load and unload it;
3) that a firearm is a dangerous tool and not a toy; and (most important)
4) don’t follow the teacher’s instructions and don’t remain static – move for a window and go out, even if it means short fall. “The Plan” gets people killed.
gvg
Publicizing gun ownership or NRA membership is a bad idea. First it’s a bad precident on privacy and we already have enough problems there. 2nd is robbery. You make it public who owns guns and their will be a lot of targeted robberies which will result in more untracable guns for crimes, not to mention the theft of properyt and resulting lawsuits.
I uh, know a couple of gun nuts who do not advertise specifically because of the robbery threat, and I was taught as a child not to mention so and so had guns. Now the gun nuts I know have exspensive heavy safes and happen to be dog lovers to excess anyway, so I don’t think they are the most likely victims, but friends of theirs had been which is why they went quiet. One of them has a lot of valuable guns he bought years ago that have increased in value. One has collectoritis with a strong interest in history, and reminds me specifically of other people I know who collect something. Both “nuts” are of the kind who care a lot about the 2nd amendment and they vote with that in mind unfortunately although sometimes something else overrides it. The elder is a Vietnam vet who was really disgusted at Bush’s incompetance in the quagmire. I think their 2nd amendment love is a kind of ego thing where they picture themselves as hero’s. But they aren’t also going around showing off their guns to intimidate. They regard their to be 2 kinds of hunters. Real ones and show offs who drink and drive around at the front of hunting areas to be noticed…..they both avoid the 2nd kind like dangerous nut jobs. In fact the younger guy’s best childhood friend turned into one of the drinking showoffs and my friend had decided to never go anywhere again with him when guns were involved. Other hobbies were ok still last I heard.
Keep in mind that real responsible gun owners just don’t do things that get in the news. I can’t tell the respective %’s of types. I think tests for licenses are a really good idea but privacy for everyone still has to be protected.
I also think the founders thought that gun ownership was going to be more important in defending liberty than has actually turned out to be the case. They got a lot right, I just think that they missed the boat that time which is going to make it harder on us to fix things. I also think the license needs to be for pocession and use not ownership because of value. Some people are going to inherit guns they don’t know how to keep and others will become mental disabled. Their needs to be paid custodian businesses that hold the guns safely in those cases.
We also need to be clearer about when we think that people shouldn’t own guns. I would support repeated intoxication issues, repeated convictions of threatening behavior towards others….Mental health is too broad a catagory. Not all are dangerous and some are temporary.
Insurance and license’s are good starts. What else?
Elizabelle
@Bill: Respectfully disagree.
Although I do love your “render unto Caesar” messaging, because that is exactly what the Pope should have said. If I were pope*, it would be the go to response, as well as you have a right to your own conscience.
Conscience does not require one to hang on to a government job one won’t do.
[*Of course, I could never be a pope, or even a priest, cuz I don’t have the sacred appendage, seat of all that is holy.]
Also, FWIW, might the language barrier have been a little in play here, even if Francis recognized Kim Davis and knew all the details of her story? Does she speak anything other than English? He is not always comfortable with his, or completely understandable.
Gin & Tonic
@Bill: a woman whose face has been all over the news for months because of her homophobia.
“All over the news”? In Vatican City? I think you seriously overestimate the influence of US media in Europe.
Belafon
@A guy: Hey shithead, nope, it wasn’t.
Emma
@Chris: Not quite. They seem to have set him up without warning him as to who she was and what her problems are. You sometimes see those audiences in documentaries about Popes or the Vatican — one big room full of people and the Pope walks about shaking hands and blessing babies. Francisco probably didn’t know who she was from Adam. I know we Americans believe all our problems are written on the world at large, but — not really, no.
I expect that in a few months there shall be reassignments announced — no, of course it has nothing to do with that, regular business, and if some people end up in a Siberian monastery helping herd yaks, it’s all a coincidence, run along now.
The imbeciles who decided to do this forgot, in the arrogance bred from long years of support by JPII and Benedict, that the Pope is ALSO a head of state. This opened him up to a quiet word from the American ambassador about meddling in internal political affairs. Francisco might be a jolly kind old man but he’s a Pope and a Jesuit. The shitstorm will be subterranean but epic.
shell
Very relieved that Joaquin is not going to be crashing into our area, NJ/NY.
But it sounds like the Carolinas are going to get lashed with up to a foot (!) of rain this weekend.Does anybody know if Betty Cracker still made the trip up there?
Chyron HR
@A guy:
Sounds like you’re a model NRA member. Unfortunately.
shell
@A guy: Im always amazed about these fantasies gunnuts have about saving the day during a horrific mass shooting. They seem to forget that these incidents happen in a matter of minutes, even seconds, and youd barely have the time to realize what is happening let alone pull out your gun and be the hero. Or maybe they think it all happens in slow motion like in the movies.
Chris
@Emma:
Yeah, that’s what I’m saying. “Tiny, culturally specific incident that nobody outside of America has heard of and even most of America thinks is a nothingburger” – as you say, one of these things that made some headlines in America but nobody else has heard of. Like I said, I’d totally believe that the local clergy set it up, and that Pope Francis arrived not knowing anything about her, but decided to follow the locals’ lead.
Patrick
@A guy:
From this morning’s newspaper:
“And Oregon is one of a small number of states that forces colleges to allow guns on public university campuses, at least in some circumstances. A 2011 court case found that state law prevented the legislature from establishing rules prohibiting guns throughout state college campuses.
A law enforcement official said it didn’t appear that Mr. Mercer had committed any criminal offenses in the past that would have prohibited him from buying guns”.
Please feel free to repeat your lies. But it doesn’t make it factual.
BTW – Mr. Mercer is yet another example of a “law-abiding citizen” who murdered people.
gelfling545
@Chyron HR: Everybody gets a rosary or a religious medal at these things. Even I got a medal of the BVM when I was 17 & in Rome with people from my Catholic girls’ high school.
Bill
@A guy: There are no gun free zones in Oregon colleges. Per State Court ruling. Not sure how many time you have to be told this before you understand.
http://www.oregonlive.com/education/index.ssf/2011/11/oregon_university_system_will_1.html
Emma
@Chris: Sorry about the misread! I have been encountering enough of the “but he should have known her! she was in the NEEEEWWS! ” And when I point out it was probably not in the news in Rome, they look at me like… what?
Bill
@Gin & Tonic: I was just in Europe. Her face was all over the news.
But let’s assume it wasn’t. Francis didn’t turn on CNN once while he was in the great land of freedom?
Joel
@bjacques: Maybe America *is* his shitty assignment. What better way to demonstrate your dissatisfaction than by producing one of our esteemed domestic products?
benw
@Gin & Tonic:
But they tap that keyboard really HARD and chew their Doritos with PURPOSE, you know?
@Elizabelle:
LOL! But you can be the pope of our hearts. I think this little intra-Catholic brouhaha was a blessing in that it hopefully reminded some on the left who were getting a little giddy that hippie pope, while sounding reasonable on climate change and compassion for the poor, is still the pope of the Catholic church, and strongly opposed to gay and women’s rights.
gelfling545
@Bill: There is no way to know, if he did her to “stay strong”, what it was in response to. That he might not know who a particular Mrs. Davis in the US might be seems possible & even likely to me. People outside the US aren’t as fascinated by our internal turmoils as we often believe. Even here, if it weren’t for the theatrics generated by her attorney & several hopeless GOP candidates for the presidential nomination, she wouldn’t amount to much once the judge ensured that people could get licenses.
Elizabelle
@Bill: He did not invite her. That’s enough for me. He need not have excoriated her in a public audience either.
Pope Francis is not persecuting nuns. He won’t entertain the idea of women priests, unfortunately, but that does not mean he’s not a fresh sea breeze on other issues.
No leader is responsible for all the sins of the father (and mothers), nor has the power to change everything, in short order.
Bill
@FlipYrWhig:
You’re right in the first instance, and we really need to abandon the “citizen militia” argument for the time being. The constitution means whatever the Supreme Court says it means. And for better or worse the Court has said gun ownership is an individual right. We need to focus on Scalia’s language in Heller that the right is not unfettered, and can still be regulated.
If the Supreme Court turns over, perhaps the militia argument will hold water again. But it’s not join to fly with this Court.
Joel
@A guy: No one cares what you think.
gelfling545
Why don’t I have permission to edit my comment? I only wanted to put “tell” between “did” and “her”.
Chris
@Emma:
No probs. I probably could’ve made it clearer, but yeah: my basic point was that the initial reports of Pope Francis supporting Kim Davis didn’t really surprise me, since, whether or not he thinks this is a religious freedom issue, he does basically agree with her on the big picture question (there should not be gay marriages).
It would be surprising if he’d decided to involve himself in such a small and, frankly, petty issue as Kim Davis’ specific predicament on his own, but he’s still an anti-gay-marriage advocate, basically.
Bill
@Elizabelle:
Don’t disagree that his messaging is better than his predecessor on say income inequality, that doesn’t change that he’s the head of a homophobic, sexist organization. (I’m fascinated by the fact that he heads one of the wealthiest organizations in the world though, and doesn’t seem to be selling off priceless antiquities to feed the homeless. I know, I know: “He’s just one man! Baby steps!”)
He seems like a nice enough guy – as far as repressive leaders of discriminatory organizations go – but I’m a little tired of the praise he’s getting from people who should know better.
CONGRATULATIONS!
Francis wasn’t blindsided. He just decided to have his cake and eat it too.
Don’t fall for the PR job – and it is a PR job, remember the guy in charge of all of Francis’ PR is a former Fox News exec – this is the same old shit, they just swapped the plate it is served on.
Bill
@gelfling545:
Actually there is a way to know. He could tell us. He hasn’t.
I know that if Ms Davis made a public statement that I told her to “stay strong” I’d run to the nearest journalist to tell the world she’s full of shit.
rikyrah
uh huh
uh huh
Chicago Public Schools downgrades four years of inflated graduation rates
Chicago Public Schools lowered four years of inflated high school graduation rates to account for a higher-than-advertised dropout rate, another blow to a district beset by financial and professional turmoil.
The accuracy of the district’s numbers had been called into question as early as January in a report by CPS’ inspector general. But CPS officials did not announce the revised graduation rates until Thursday, months after Mayor Rahm Emanuel won re-election.
Throughout the campaign, Emanuel repeatedly pointed to the district’s improving graduation rates as proof that his often-controversial stewardship of one of the nation’s largest public school systems was producing tangible results.
“This wasn’t a one-year fluke, a statistical error,” Emanuel said during an August 2014 breakfast with faith leaders. “This is a journey not to a single destination, though we do have a goal: a hundred percent college-ready, a hundred percent college-bound, no child left behind.”
CPS CEO Forrest Claypool said Thursday that the district made a “statistical error” and that a “relatively minor modification” was needed to recalculate graduation rates.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-chicago-school-graduation-rate-change-met-1002-20151001-story.html
japa21
It would be interesting if some of the other people who were included in the meeting, since there were probably many, were to report on what happened. It definitely sounds like it was not a one on one meeting. And the Pope saying “Stand strong” could well have been a general statement said to the whole group.
It definitely sounds like Davis and/or her lawyer, if not actually lying, are definitely stretching the truth.
Elizabelle
@Shana: Applauding you and SIL. That’s a lot! Enjoy lunch and stay safe on your drive home. Be a good weekend to cocoon and rest up.
Stock up on red.
Bill
@FlipYrWhig: They would write the policies, but premiums would be high, likely limiting individual ownership. It’s also likely that the insurers would place restrictions on owners as policy conditions. Like requiring gun safes, safety locks, training etc…
Conservatives claims to love free market solutions. This is a free market mechanism by which to decrease gun violence.
Cacti
Yeah, not really buying this weak, post hoc damage control, given the current Pontiff’s history of outspoken homophobia.
Cervantes
@Chris:
Assuming in the first place that there’s a good reason for so many people to have access to guns and ammunition.
MomSense
@Botsplainer:
Thanks for that. I’m going to need to find someone to advise me on this. The plan may be bad but so is confusion in the moment.
I hate the fucking gun nuts. I hate the fucking gun nuts. I hate the fucking gun nuts.
When do we get to call this terrorism???
Cervantes
@Shana:
That’s quite an account. I lost track of how many mitzvot you’re obeying at one time!
Have a great week-end.
Chris
@Cervantes:
They seem to have made it work with very few mass shootings, is the point. When I said gun ownership was a luxury, I didn’t mean it should never ever be allowed – just that it should come second to public safety concerns. If the Swiss have found a way to drastically reduce the mass shootings without necessitating mass confiscations, that’s fine with me too.
Bill Arnold
@beltane:
While driving to work today I was wondering about how dangerous it would be to have a “Repeal The Second Amendment” bumper sticker. I do not live in a gun-rack area but it is semi-rural and you often hear informal target practice or hunting.
Cervantes
@Bill Arnold:
That would be an extremely bad idea.
mai naem mobile
@Fred: what exactly did tortoises do to you? I say send Vigale to the catholic outpost in Afghanistan. He can become good pals with the Taliban.
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
The Land and Water Conservation Fund – responsible for building and/or completing many of our National Parks as well as State and Local parks, expired yesterday, thanks to Rob Bishop (Republican asshole from Utah) who chairs the House Natural Resources Committee. This is why we can’t have nice things. As a big fan of parks, National and otherwise, I find this news depressing.
VincentN
Look, the Pope may be homophobic but he’s not a political idiot. I really doubt he wanted his visit and his overall message of focusing on the poor and needy to be overshadowed by this Kim Davis nonsense. It’s not like the US is the only nation with legalized gay marriage so if this guy really wanted to show his anti-gay bonafides he could have done it in Denmark or France.
Frankensteinbeck
This would be consistent with one thing I noticed: When the press asked him about conscientious objectors and civil disobedience, the Pope’s answer was ‘What the Hell are they talking about?’ vague. It was the ‘Of course I think it’s sometimes honorable for people to stand up for their religious beliefs’ answer I would have expected if the question had no context.
catclub
@Gin & Tonic:
Now if it were snooker, they would be on it. Or cricket.
catclub
@What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?: I saw that. Also that there is a long list of properties to be bought that is unfunded/ not done. argh.
A guy
I assume you folks can read. The Community colleges banned guns per its policy and in conformance with the state court ruling. It was a gun free zone. And most importantly, the shooter sure thought it was
http://www.oregonlive.com/education/index.ssf/2011/11/oregon_university_system_will_1.html
MaximusNYC
@Bill:
You seem to be assuming that the Pope follows American news stories as closely as Americans do. How much attention has the rest of the world actually paid to Kim Davis?
Omnes Omnibus
@A guy: We can. Not so sure about you though. Go reread the article.
Bill
@MaximusNYC:
Every major European news outlet covered her. It was in the Netherlands last month, the story was covered. A few examples from the Google machine.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34192427
http://news.sky.com/video/1549088/anti-gay-marriage-clerk-freed
http://noticias.univision.com/article/2457266/2015-09-08/estados-unidos/noticias/kim-davis-saldra-en-libertad-tras-negar-licencias-de-matrimonio-a-parejas-gay-en-kentucky
http://www.lemonde.fr/ameriques/article/2015/09/03/etats-unis-une-greffiere-opposee-au-mariage-homosexuel-condamnee-a-de-la-prison_4745313_3222.html
http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/gesellschaft/homo-ehe-amtsmitarbeitern-in-kentucky-ignoriert-rechtslage-a-1051281.html
Is the Pope really going with: “I had no idea who this woman was?” Because if that’s the case it speaks to a guy who’s seriously out of touch, or suffering from some kind of dementia. She’s a flashpoint on an issue his church has been very vocal on.
Cervantes
@Bill:
For what it’s worth, I disagree on both counts.
Bill
@A guy: Your reading skills are seriously deficient. (Or more likely you’re intentionally obtuse.)
Sasha
Curiouser and curiouser: “Pope held private meeting with same-sex couple in U.S.”
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@beltane:
This is why I feel much better that my friend’s social worker/psychologist sister switched jobs from doing home med checks to working at a maternity shelter. There’s still a chance that some abusive asshole with a gun could show up, but it’s better than being shot through the door because a paranoid schizophrenic stopped taking their meds.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@A guy:
Wow, it’s still 2011?
Gex
Define “doesn’t support.” He doesn’t support marriage equality and he publicly advocated for the actions shes taking in response to an issue he agrees with her on.
He might not have known who she was or why the revanchists in his organization manipulated him into this meeting, but it is not truthful to say he doesn’t support her.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Bill:
It took three years for Vatican II to be hammered out. The Pope can’t just say, “Okay, women can be ordained now” or “Gay people can get married now.” There is an entire body of canon law that would need to be re-examined and re-written.
The Pope says it’s sinful for gay people to have sex outside of marriage, so they should stay celibate. Guess what? That’s what straight people are supposed to do, too, because it’s just as sinful for unmarried straight people to have sex. But most straight Catholics ignore that teaching, and ignore the teaching about birth control, and follow their own consciences instead.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Gex:
It can be a matter of emphasis, though. The Pope can continue to say that gay people can’t be religiously married in the RCC but reduce or eliminate support for groups that are working against legal marriage because, frankly, there are more important things to worry about.
Whether gay couples are allowed to have a sacramental Catholic wedding in the church and whether they’re allowed to legally marry according to the laws of their state are two totally separate issues, IMO, though a whole lot of conservative assholes have done their best to conflate the two.
The Other Chuck
@gelfling545: If someone replies to your comment, the ability to edit it goes away immediately. Of course it’s beyond FYWP’s capacity to actually tell you that :-/
The Other Chuck
@CONGRATULATIONS!:
I could never fathom this expression. What’s the point of having a cake if not to eat it?
The Other Chuck
@Bill Arnold: You’d probably get your car keyed and your tires slashed. They’re too cowardly to face you, but they will act to harm you in their own petty ways.
gex
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): He doesn’t only fight religious marriage though. He has He has spoken against the redefining of marriage. I will take it back if you can point me to where his opposition to same sex marriage was limited to religious marriage. I don’t believe that is his position.
Pope Has Kind Words for Backers of Anti-Equality Measures in Slovakia
Patrick
@A guy:
You are just as bad as Carly Fiorina in making absolute crap up. Even the right-wing Wall Street Journal this morning conceded that there was not a gun free zone at the campus.
Cervantes
@The Other Chuck:
Yes, you want to eat it — but if it’s all eaten it’s all gone and the pleasure ends.
Whereas eating it and having it, too, implies cake forever.
Emma
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/world-news/kim-davis-pope-francis-gay-student
I’ll just leave this right here….
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@gex:
Sorry, I wasn’t very clear — that was a hypothetical about what he *could* do as Pope, not what he’s actually done. I’m hoping he moves in that direction, but he’s a conservative old man, so I’m not going to hold my breath. Probably the best we can hope for right now is backing off Benedict’s “intrinsically disordered” language, especially in countries where the RCC has historically been politically powerful (like Ireland) but hat power is starting to slip away.
I have no trouble saying that the Pope is wrong about gay marriage and women but is worth allying with on climate change and poverty, but I was raised Vatican II, so I have no intrinsic problem with picking and choosing.
Elie
I’ll just say that I am glad all this is shaking loose. I should have known this Pope would not have been that slippery — that it just didn’t fit his MO. Pretty unbelievable as well that Vigale and her supporters would do something so stupid that in the end, would be refuted by the Vatican.
I remain skeptical of religion, but it is heartening not to have my worst most cynical beliefs about it made manifest in what this Pope — a decent and good person, did.
J R in WV
@Elizabelle:
Perhaps Papal Nunciate Vigale should become Cardinal of Tristan da Cunha, which is the remotest inhabited island in the world?
Sounds like a great job for a guy with his strategic communication skillz!!