With Orange Julius on the way out, the conventional wisdom is that the nutjobs will be sated long enough to get some long-term funding deals done and to get America out of “lurching from GOP-created crisis to GOP-created crisis” mode. I’m not buying that simply because when you reward bullies, they don’t back down. But if House Republicans really do want to shut the government down this week over Planned Parenthood, they’re not going to have very much support.
Nearly seven in 10 Americans — 69 percent — oppose shutting down the government over funding for Planned Parenthood, according to the results of a new national Quinnipiac University poll released Monday.
Just 23 percent support closing the government over the dispute. Even among Republicans, a majority of 56 percent to 36 percent opposes a shutdown due to Planned Parenthood.
At the same time, 44 percent to 39 percent said they had a favorable opinion of Planned Parenthood, with a significant gender gap. Among women, 50 percent to 35 percent approve of the group, while men disapprove, 43 percent to 38 percent.
But as far as cutting off funding to the group, 52 percent said they would oppose doing so, compared with 41 percent who supported such an action. Women opposed such an action by a wide margin — 60 percent to 34 percent — while men responding to the survey supported an end to federal funding 49 percent to 44 percent.
Not even Republicans want to shut down the government over Planned Parenthood at this point. Well, Republican men do, but that’s it. We’ll see where it goes, but this is a fight the GOP has already lost.
BGinCHI
Where do I send the House GOP new shovels so that they can dig their hole deeper?
Agreed, Zandar: these terrorists are emboldened.
JMG
This country would be a super fine place if men, of whom I have the honor to be one, were stripped of all civil rights.
BGinCHI
@JMG: According to the right wing media, this has already happened.
Eric
@BGinCHI: only white ones
BGinCHI
@Eric: And Bill Cosby.
MattF
News reports say a Continuing Resolution will go untill Dec. 11, a not-so-big ten weeks. After that, le déluge— it seems to be up for grabs. I’m rooting for impeachment, myself.
ruemara
@BGinCHI: Honest, hard-working, white men. History’s most put upon people. Will no one think of the suffering white men?
To be honest, I think the scat covered loons are pretty much going to run full tilt through the halls, just trying to break the country beyond repair. I don’t think that will cause an increase in voting, since most Americans are too ignorant of anything that isn’t a reality show. But our enemies will be happy.
Hillary Rettig
I wish some Dem would introduce a bill calling for a doubling of Planned Parenthood funding. Tired of playing defense to a bunch of crooks and liars…
Chris
@ruemara:
So basically the last seven years, continued.
BGinCHI
@ruemara: Look at all the adversity Bill O’Reilly got through in his rise to top Intellectual of the televised programming for elderviewers.
It would speak for itself if he weren’t so busy speaking for and about it every second his lips are moving.
MattF
@ruemara: I’ve noticed that Ted Cruz seems to be in his happy place. We may soon need a quick review of the ‘duck and cover and kiss your ass good-bye’ routine.
jonas
When has what a majority of Americans want had anything to do with the way Washington — and this Congress in particular — operates? 9 times out of 10, they’re inversely related. They don’t represent the majority of Americans, they represent the donor class and and small minority of outraged base voter loons who threaten to primary anyone who doesn’t have a 100 score from the Institute of Krazy.
debbie
Not the one I’m listening to. Glenn Beck is fuming at the possibility that McCarthy will be the next Speaker. He’s pissed that Ryan might be elected, even though his minions assure him Ryan doesn’t want the post. Beck hasn’t said who he wants yet, but my money’s on Gomhert.
SteveM
Yes, but if it happens, those Republicans will claim that Democrats were at fault.
Tom
@jonas:
This.
See also: background checks on gun sales.
jonas
Moreover, has anyone pointed out that if Planned Parenthood looses its government funding, the one thing it will be left doing is…abortion? Lotta thinking there, folks.
Rex Tremendae
So sacrificing a speaker of the house only gave us a couple months extention on keeping the gov’t running. We can’t keep operating like this.
MattF
@SteveM: Well, yes. By being Democrats, we all force the wingers to do bad things. What choice do they have?
SFAW
Can we stop using that idiotic phrase? Please? It was good when Obama used it on Romney, especially considering Romney’s and Crowley’s responses, but its half-life was about two weeks.
Not only that, its use here implies that the Rethugs will actually pay some kind of price for shutting down the Government. Just like they did last time, no doubt, when the Dems rode the wave of voter outrage to a veto-proof majority in the Senate, and 275 seats in the House.
But I’m sure DWS and her braintrust will be all over it THIS time, and we’ll see wall-to-wall spots talking about how the Rethugs are trying to shit on the 99 percent (again), just to benefit the Kochs, Adelson, etc.
Any fucking second now.
ETA: I guess, technically, the “(again)” should really be “(still).”
Botsplainer
The Planned Parenthood videos are Terri Schiavo all over again – lies created to inspire a groundswell of support among the deludeds.
This works EVERY FUCKING TIME when conservatives run the House.
philpm
The GOP never considers any battle lost as long as they can continue to throw stupid, futile gestures at it.
benw
I confidently predict that we have no idea what the Republican house is going to do next, and they don’t either.
Cervantes
@Hillary Rettig:
See what you might do tomorrow.
Also, feel free to remind everyone that using fetal tissue for research is not only beneficial, it is legal and has been since at least 1993:
which is when the National Institutes of Health Revitalization Act was passed with the support of (among other Senators) John McCain, Chuck Grassley, Strom Thurmond, Orrin Hatch, Phil Gramm, and … Mitch McConnell. Fred Upton, Congressman from Michigan who is now heading a House committee to “investigate” Planned Parenthood, also voted for the bill.
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
I was kind of surprised when the announced that Boehner’s resignation meant that we wouldn’t have a shutdown showdown. The nutjobs just seized control of the house and their first decision is to capitulate on going all out to defend the line they drew in the sand? It doesn’t seem like their MO but if it keeps the Government running then I guess it’s for the best.
Cervantes
@Botsplainer:
I’m not sure I’d even call them that.
SFAW
@Cervantes:
What, Trey Gowdy wasn’t available? I mean, the guy’s so talented, he should be able to chair TWO bullshit
witch huntsinvestigations which leak Dem-bashing lies to the MSM.Gindy51
@JMG: Actually if every male woke up tomorrow as a female, things would change by noon if not sooner. Abortion outlets on every corner, female viagra in the drug stores, no more high heels… you get my drift.
SFAW
@What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?:
I think the idea was that Boehner would no longer worry about the “Hastert Rule,” and was free to work with the Dems to craft something relatively rational.
D58826
@JMG: There is a very old joke that if men could get pregnant abortion would be a sacrament. Probably applies to contraceptives as well
OzarkHillbilly
@Hillary Rettig:
That would be a doubling of the Medicaid reimbursements for the procedures they perform. I really wish we would get away from using the word “funding.” When they talk about “defunding” Planned Parenthood they mean making it a non-approved provider of services for Medicaid recipients.
sharl
@debbie: Gohmert quickly took himself out of the running for House Speaker, or so he told some Texas political reporter last week. I only know this because Simon Maloy tweeted out a fake (I hope) wail of despair; so much potential comedy that will not happen now…
Cervantes
@SFAW:
Gowdy is on Upton’s committee.
Cervantes
@sharl:
I suspect he did that a long time ago.
Inadvertently.
Cervantes
@Hillary Rettig:
Aforementioned Trey Gowdy actually asked about that — doubling the amount allocated for women’s health services — provided none of the money ends up in the hands of Planned Parenthood.
OzarkHillbilly
@What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?: Boehner will remain Speaker until the end of October. That means he can pass any bill without being beholden to the GOP.
SFAW
@Cervantes:
OK, but not the same as running it. But maybe they have him there to show the “kid” (Upton) how to put out ratfucking leaks with maximum impact and minimum fingerprints. (Not that anyone would care about the fingerprints part, of course.).
And they told two friends, and they told two friends ….
Botsplainer
@Cervantes:
They achieved their desired effect.
And people wonder why I have such a deep enmity toward movement conservatism and the assholes who profit from it.
OzarkHillbilly
@SFAW: Not only did you say it first, you said it better.
Elizabelle
@Hillary Rettig: I do, too.
That’s a good conversation to be having. And speak, with one voice, on how misleading and false those videos are.
Put Carly Fiorina on the hot seat (although she is shameless).
Most American Catholic women believe strongly in contraception. They just saw many Republican politicians and “opinion leaders” disrespect and ignore the Pope.
Good time to have this conversation, on a favorable field.
MattF
@sharl: Considering that the three recent Republican Speakers were Boehner, Hastert, and Gingrich… even a nutjob would think twice about trying for the job. And Democrats will stay far, far away from any real fight for the position.
bystander
@BGinCHI: and Pam Whatshername.
debbie
@sharl:
He also promised to quit the House if the Iran nuclear deal was voted down. His word means squat.
ET
Unfortunately those GOPers that support shutting the government down over Planned Parenthood only listen to the 23% who agree with them. Not only that they think that this is much more widely supported than it is because they only want to and and only hear those that agree which just reinforces/encourages them in this thinking. Realty is NOT something these people understand.
Patrick
People said the same the last time the GOP shut down the government, yet it didn’t hurt them when the next election rolled around. They gained a dozen seats in the House and retook the Senate. Apparently the voters loved the shutdown or didn’t care when the next election rolled around.
SFAW
@debbie:
The Fucking Nuuuuuuuge is probably one of his constituents. Which would explain some stuff. The only question would be: did Louie get the idea to make some idiotic promise and then renege from Nugent? Or the other way around? Yeah, I know that Nuge’s dead-or-in-jail promise (still waitin’ Ted, you fucking candy-ass) came first, but we don’t know if Nuge somehow drew his inspiration from Louie the Gomer.
bcinaz
Well, if national polls determined the outcome of congressional races then this poll would matter. Shutting down the government to defund Planned Parenthood would be seen as a yooge win for these guys with the folks back home. Doing something the rest of the country hates is a perverse incentive with the nutwings
Peale
@OzarkHillbilly: Yeah. The “moderate” republicans whow are supposedly pretending to be the adults in the room in respect to the shutdown are really putting those radicals in their place by passing resolutions that fund the government for less than 90 days.
I just don’t get this. Is the process stupid, or are the people who run it? I guess I’ll go with stupid process; venal people.
Iowa Old Lady
@JMG: I recently complained to Mr IOL that it was sometimes embarrassing to be an old white person, and he countered by saying I should try being an old white man.
cmorenc
@SFAW:
Perhaps, but a key event that helped bail the GOP out last time that happened only a few days after the shutdown was the abysmally flawed rollout of the ACA enrollment website, which strongly diverted public and media attention away from the disastrously malevolent dysfunction of the GOP-majority in the House, and onto the disastrously inept introduction of the public to health insurance under Obamacare – which supported the GOP narrative that the ACA was a disastrous imposition and proof of general ineptitude of government solutions.
Not that we agree with the GOP narrative on that, but the timing couldn’t have been better for the GOP to take much of the spotlight off the shutdown.
Jeffro
@ruemara:
Not sure why this term delights me so, but it does.
OzarkHillbilly
@Peale:
There it is.
D58826
And the GOP strikes again. GE is moving 250 jobs to Canada as a result of the Import-Export bank not being re-authorized. I guess there is some poetic justice in that the jobs come from that great jobs creator’s state Scott Walker – Wisconsin. This is the second time that GE has moved jobs overseasd as a result of the GOP effort.
Patrick
@D58826:
Country first…
Jeff
STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT.
After the 2013 shutdown, how did the GOP do in the 2014 elections?
A shutdown will NOT hurt the republicans. It will merely serve as an intra-party play for positioning in respect to getting the nomination. By next year in the summer, exactly ZERO republicans or “centrists” will remember any kind of shutdown.
SFAW
@cmorenc:
As I said: I’m sure DWS has things well in hand, and her well-orchestrated series of attacks will help maintain the fury that the electorate will feel toward the Rethugs if they shut it down again.
Add to that, the wall-to-wall messaging aimed at the many people who have benefited from Obamacare – even those who may not realize it.
Squirrel!!
ms_canadada
@D58826: The GOP are not fit to have any power.
However, I hope the jobs end up here in Hamilton Ontario.
Joel
These polls are far from sticky. I’d rather not wade into this quagmire.
SFAW
@cmorenc:
And thank FSM that the Dems have been shouting this from the mountaintops.
Fortunately, now that ACA seems to be pretty damn successful, the Dems have been more circumspect about the ACA’s benefits, because what REAL American wants to hear about something good that the Government has done?
Cervantes
@D58826:
No, you could talk about poetic justice if Walker were the one losing his job.
Sherparick
As Driftglass points out what this charge against Planned Parenthood and the pro-choice movement in general is new version of the “Blood Libel.” This very ancient trope of Christian anti-semitism was the accusation that Jews would kidnap and slaughter Christian children and use the blood to bake the Passover bread. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_libel
The fiends in the anti-abortion movement, to which apparently Fiorina has sold what was left of her soul, have resurrected this myth to assault Planned Parenthood in particular, and liberals and secularists in general. http://driftglass.blogspot.com/2015/09/sunday-morning-comin-down-carly.html
And the critics of performance art, which is what our political journalism has been reduced to, give her high points for her “discipline” and “passion” in repeating this hideous, immoral, evil lie.
Driftglass excerpting the MTP transcript:
CHUCK TODD:
David, where [Carly Fiorina] showed passion is not, like, she is not accepting any of the fact checks on this Planned Parenthood thing. And she really doesn’t want to, you know, she’s basically saying, “The details don’t matter. You should be outraged.”
DAVID BROOKS:
Yeah, well, to Andrew’s point, it’s not quite clear that reality matters to the electorate right now. And I think that’s true with Trump, it’s true with her, there are some people that are great campaigners, and some people that are actually good in reality. And so far the good in reality people are not doing so well in the polls.
…Fiorina does not accept the concept that she should answer these questions. She’s on the offensive. She’s throwing blows. No matter what you ask her, she’s throwing blows to the Democrats. And she’s just permanent offense.
CHUCK TODD:
Which may explain why she’s getting a moment.
DAVID BROOKS:
And that’s where the country is. That’s the ethos of the country right now.”
“That’s right — David Brooks believes that wantonly lobbing the Blood Libel into the middle of a presidential campaign and then defending that disgraceful lie to the hilt is not the premeditated act of a professional swindler pandering to the worst instincts of the Republican party’s depraved base…
…but merely “the ethos of the country right now.” ”
I really wish the FSM would sling a meteor at the Republican Convention when the Village Media will also be present to award style points for ability to tell the most outrageous lie with a straight face.
D58826
@Patrick: tax break first
Goblue72
@jonas: This times 1,000. Numerous studies have shown that Congress doesn’t listen to the general public. It listens mainly to its donors.
Sherparick
@BGinCHI: They won the 2010 and 2014 elections by getting the base fired up and ready for revolution. They count on the fact that 55% of the white electorate has lost their collective minds where politics and economics are concern. Certainly no one in the MSM tells them they all gone to Cloudcookooland.
JPL
@Sherparick: The entire moderator discussion starts at the thirty two minute mark. It’s worth listening to the entire discussion. MTP link
Kudos to Mitchell for pointing out that government funding doesn’t go for abortions.
Davebo
If house Republicans really want to shut down Planned Parenthood they don’t need to shut down the government.
Just make Carly Fiorina the CEO.
Cervantes
@Sherparick:
They’re sick.
Not to mention sickening.
SFAW
@Davebo:
Win.
catclub
@Cervantes:
I smell grifting with federal money. Those other providers will be ‘crisis pregnancy’ scams that have GOP backing.
PP is probably hated because they use the money for providing services.
Cervantes
@Davebo:
She’d take the money and run, leaving women with even less help than they have now.
A perfect Republican solution.
Cervantes
@catclub:
Anything else would be astonishing.
C.V. Danes
@Patrick: Exactly. To anyone who thinks that the Republicans will pay a price, I have just one word: Kansas.
gene108
Since a majority of people do not vote on a regular basis, what the majority wants is irrelevant to political decision making.
What matters is keeping the highly motivated voters of your Party engaged and happy, so they do not sit home on election day.
Until the RWNJ’s, who turn out to vote for every single election get discouraged and stay home, there’s no point in thinking anything will hurt Republicans.
sukabi
@Chris: no, it’s a continuation of the last seven years at ludicrous speed, with the media providing cover, because disasters = ratings.
Davebo
@Cervantes:
I’d happily spend 25 billion for Compaq rather than wait a year or so and take it for free.
For $100 million.
Patrick
@Sherparick:
I am still waiting for at least one these so called “professional” journalists to demand Fiorina to bring in a tape and show us exactly where the hell she is seeing this atrocity. If she refuses, we can only conclude she is lying her head off. Why is this so fricking hard? Instead, every fricking day, we have the same crap – she said, he said.
Tenar Darell
@D58826: There’d be a clinic on every corner like Starbucks.
trollhattan
@Cervantes:
He’s too busy mastering the whole shoe-tyin thing to take on any new responsibilities.
Cervantes
@gene108:
I agree, except that demotivating the “RWNJs” is only one path. The other path involves motivating everyone else.
Easier said than done, sure.
RaflW
OT but I think relates to Republican men:
Texas ‘good guy with a gun’ shoots carjacking victim in head — then runs away
Houston police say that an armed man’s attempt to stop a carjacking went terribly wrong on Saturday night when he shot the vehicle’s owner in the head, then fled the scene.
bcinaz
@Sherparick: From all the polling I’ve seen, about 50% of the Republican base is backing Trump, Carson and Fiorina. In real life this isn’t the ‘whole country’; this about 27%. The same 27% that really hates Obama. David Brooks and Chuck Todd seem to be attempting to explain something neither of them seems to get.
Bobby Thomson
@SFAW: lighten up, Francis.
Cervantes
@bcinaz:
No, it suits them to pretend that “the ethos of the country” is at fault — because it’s too big to fail.
SFAW
@Patrick:
“I’m not going to play ‘Gotcha!’ journalism, Chuck! I don’t see you asking President Obama questions like that – is it because I’m a woman? Or because I was a successful CEO? Or perhaps something else, IYKWIMAITYD? Answer me THAT, Chuck!”
Patrick
@SFAW:
She could try that and about 73% of the voters would conclude she is an idiot.
gene108
@Cervantes:
All you need is another inept Republican led response to a natural disaster, a never ending war in corner of the world that turns out was based on lies and an economic disaster the likes of which have not been seen since
19292008.Otherwise forget about it.
People have other things to worry about.
Brachiator
Why would this matter at all to the conservative Republicans in the Congress?
@Cervantes
Sounds like a scam to reduce birth control funding. What a bunch of weasels.
SFAW
@Bobby Thomson:
GMAFB.
With the exception of my annoyance at “please proceed,” pretty much everything I wrote has been repeated here, in different forms.
Now sod off, or I’ll send you back to the Polo Grounds.
SFAW
@Patrick:
Hmm, I wonder why you happened to pick 73 percent … interesting.
She’d probably pick up some stray Trump voters, because they likes them some ballsy candidates what tell those snotty left-wing MSM folks where to get off.
So that might get her to 28 or 29 percent.
jl
@Brachiator:
” Why would this matter at all to the conservative Republicans in the Congress? ”
Doesn’t to House GOP safely sitting atop gerrymanders. It does very much to those in the Senate (Edit: since no one has figured out a way to gerrymander state lines yet) and for 2016 presidential election. I think that is what Zandar is saying, or implying.
Cervantes
@SFAW:
I wasn’t annoyed — but the difference you pointed out is undeniable.
sukabi
So in the last year we’ve had the Iranian leadership explain how our constitution works to our elected Republican letter writers. Guess what they watch for their reality tv fix?
hugely
just for the record, as a man, I support PP in spirit and with donations as well. Probably very common here at BJ – but I wish others would wake the fuck up
Brachiator
@jl:
Zandar is either being ironic or lives in an alternate universe. The Republicans always talk about being there for the American people, and then insisting on their own agenda.
And of course, the love call of the True Republican wingnut Congressman is “if we hold firm to our conservative values, the American people will vote even harder for us.”
Polls don’t matter. What the American people say they want doesn’t matter.
brantl
This is an experiment, in whether, when they read objective fact, can they actually recognize it, when it contradicts what they want to believe.
SFAW
@Cervantes:
Meaning between the original use, and it’s use here?
By the way, I realize I’m one of maybe three BJ commenters who hates the persistent use of the phrase. So it goes.
Cervantes
@SFAW:
Yes, Obama used it with reason. He knew he was going to win the point.
Not everyone should be as cock-sure all the time.
Patrick
@Brachiator:
Exactly. Polls have shown repeatedly support for better gun control laws. But in election after election people favoring the opposite wins.
brantl
@Rex Tremendae:
If we could get them to actually do it as like, say, a Mayan sacrifice, and it’s a Republican speaker, I say advance it to every two weeks!
SFAW
@brantl:
At times like this, I am reminded of the immortal words of Olsen Johnson: “Now who can argue with that?”
MattF
@brantl: Problem is, you’d have to find their hearts.
Cervantes
@MattF:
We could fake it.
After all, they do.
Bobby Thomson
@SFAW: the exception was the thing.
Matt McIrvin
@Patrick: That’s the effect of intensity. For advocates of gun control, it’s usually not the only thing they care about. The opponents of all gun-control measures are single-issue voters, and so loud and proud and frequently scary about it that nobody really wants to cross them. I think they are actually more passionate than the anti-abortion people.
Patrick
@Matt McIrvin:
Absolutely. This is why polling can be so misleading when they don’t measure intensity of the voters beliefs.
SiubhanDuinne
@jonas:
Oh, what a fine observation! Gotta remember that.
SFAW
@Bobby Thomson:
Yeah, I kinda figured.
It’s one of my few pet peeves.
Well, if the definition of “few” is “couple hundred.”
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
@SFAW: @OzarkHillbilly: Yeah I get that but Boehner is pissed at them (obviously) and it seems like his best course for revenge would be to say “it’s your Congress now, so you decide what to do” and let them hoist themselves on their own petard. But maybe he realizes that they won’t be so hoisted because the districts they come from are so batshit insane that they’re not the ones who would pay the price.
Brachiator
@Cervantes:
The fundamentalists don’t know the law or don’t care. They don’t see using fetal tissue for research. They see wanton women who deliberately murdered their babies and callously sold the dead bodies.
The people who put together these false videos to make Planned Parenthood look like criminals did an excellent disinformation campaign. They found exactly the sensitive spot that would inflame sensibilities against PP. And now they have Fiorina as their champion.
Neither law nor reality matter here. I wouldn’t be surprised if some member of Congress offered a bill that would ban fetal tissue research.
RaflW
@Patrick: I am still waiting for at least one these so called “professional” journalists to demand Fiorina to bring in a tape and show us exactly where the hell she is seeing this atrocity.
VOX tried, but her campaign weaseled of course.
jl
@Brachiator:
” I wouldn’t be surprised if some member of Congress offered a bill that would ban fetal tissue research. ”
I seriously doubt that would ever happen. That would force discussion outside of the pure PR BS realm into reality, which the cynics running the shit show do not want.
Our horrible media is partly to blame for this. The willingness and ability of the corporate media to call the GOP, and their presidential candidates on their outrageous lies is close to nonexistent. I remember that the hack ass’ Dickerson’s question to HRC last weej on the cooked and crooked Planned Parenthood sting videos what something like ‘What did you feel when you saw those videos’ There is a lot wrong with that kind of question when discussing patent fraud that is being used as a pretext for massive lying in a national political campaign.
Dickerson is no improvement on the hack ass Schiefer at all, in some ways worse.
Cervantes
@Brachiator:
Well, then we’re doomed, I suppose. Nothing can be done.
Cervantes
@jl:
Such things have been happening in the states.
Cervantes
@jl:
Shame, for the people who take a difficult subject and deliberately lie about it.
gene108
@Brachiator:
In context, not really.
ACORN got destroyed for less.
Shirley Sherrod lost her job for less.
Planned Parenthood is still standing. Democrats are rallying around (maybe they learned something from the above two examples). Republicans will cause a lot of harm to give the group behind the videos what it wants.
japa21
@Brachiator: I believe that banning the use of fetal tissue for research is currently being considered in Wisconsin. Of course, with the folks currently in charge of that state, I am not surprised.
Calouste
@Matt McIrvin: Opposition to abortion is only one of the tenets of a religion. Gunnuttery is a religion in itself.
Brachiator
@Cervantes:
In the eyes of the fundies, yes, you’re condemned and doomed.
I don’t know where you get “nothing can be done” from.
Patrick
@RaflW:
Fair enough. So I’m still waiting for the major “news” networks to do the same. Until then, she has this megaphone with this phony accusations that nobody questions.
raven
@SFAW: I hate “kabuki”
Lurking Canadian
@SFAW:
That’s the beauty of The Narrative. You can’t go on TV and say “Obamacare was a success”. Just like you can’t go on TV and say “Deficit spending isn’t always bad” or “We can raise tax rates on the rich”.
It’s like going on TV and saying the Sasquatch is real. Everybody Knows Obamacare was a disaster. To disagree just makes you shrill, like Paul Krugman.
Brachiator
@japa21:
Holy crap! You’re right. September 9 news story.
http://wuwm.com/post/update-committee-advances-bill-outlawing-use-fresh-fetal-tissue
NorthLeft12
@JMG: Unfortunately, there is much truth in what you are suggesting. Although, taking away the civil rights of all men is a little drastic. How about they just take away our right to vote, hold public office, and be on juries.
I think that would be a good start. Then, once women have cleaned things up [say in a decade or so], we might request for the right to vote back.
lonesomerobot
I don’t want it to happen because it’s just a monumentally stupid thing and a bad time for it, but I do want it to happen because the GOP really needs to finish itself off.
Don’t think it will happen though. Probably part of what’s baked into the cake of Boehner’s resignation is the realization on his part that now he can get the votes to pass bills with Democrats and a few Republicans, and not. give. a. shit. what the crazies think about it.
sukabi
@Gindy51: “If every male woke up PREGNANT tomorrow..”
There would be free contraception, free pregnancy testing, and free abortions. And everyone other thing women have been trying to get covered would be a pressing issue.
sukabi
@Cervantes: it would only advance the next candidate in line..observers, the gods weren’t satisfied because said sacrifice didNot have a pure heart.
jl
Thanks to commenters for info on insane state level efforts to ban use of fetal tissue.
I still think at national level, enough of the cynical operators who organize this dishonest nonsense know it would backfire, so unlikely to happen. But, if nutcases at state level willing to go there, I guess some idiots in teabagger House GOP may try it too.
sukabi
@sukabi: observers should have been obviously
Sondra
What most people seem not to remember is that we women folk only won the right to have birth control in 1966. It was thru the work of Planned Parenthood and others that we got that lovely, and much hated by the rightwing, “Griswold” decision.
Before that even information about birth control was considered “obscene”, let alone made available.
Planned Parenthood only started getting funding from the Government in 1970 and that was thanks to Richard Nixon (bless his heart).
We are being forced to re-fight battles that were won long ago dammit. We need a firebrand who will stand up for the 21st century for a change.
Mandalay
@SFAW:
I am not opposed to the ongoing resurrection of that phrase in principle, since I think it really has filled a gap in the English language. Is there any alternative phrase that conveys precisely the same concept?
That said, it should only be employed when victory is certain. I think the waters are a bit muddy on PP, and if nothing else the issue excites the GOP base.
But I can offer up several other phrases that really do deserve to die:
– Using “also, too” and “all of them Katie” needlessly keep her alive. Let her go.
– Using “anyone who {x} is not paying attention” is a dismissive but vacuous putdown.
– Using “these are the same people who {x}…” when you don’t know that to be true.
goblue72
@Matt McIrvin: Its not like Germany went to bed one night and then woke up the next morning with the National Socialists in charge. Though they had the largest voting bloc in the German parliament in 1932, they were still only 38 percent of the legislative seats. The CEOs of German corporations and other members of the uber-wealthy class pressured the German head of state (President) into naming Hitler the Chancellor (Prime Minister – head of govt) – in what was essentially a coup by the oligarchs. The Nazis then systematically made other political parties illegal, one by one, through intimidation, violence and extra-legal means. They were never a majority – they were just the most intense, most angry, most violent, most reactionary, and most demagogic.
The line between democracy and fascism is drawn by how well the 99% are able to keep the 1% in check. Economic inequality is a precursor to actual oligarchy.
Ruckus
@Patrick:
Don’t we have laws to protect the minority from the rest of us?
This is what gun control laws mean to the idiots who carry/want to carry them. We are restricting their rights to be idiots. Not sure that’s a minority class though. Although we have precedent, say in the use of seat belts.
Kerry Reid
Friends don’t let friends fuck Republican men.
MattF
@goblue72: More specifically, the old-line right wing, personified by Fritz von Papen. It’s unclear to me how that maps onto current right-wing American politics.
Ruckus
@lonesomerobot:
What actually stopped him before? Nothing. Not one thing outside himself stopped JB from getting those laws up for vote or passed. He may be moderate compared to the loons but he is no centrist or even moderate republican. He just understands how government works.
Ruckus
@Kerry Reid:
Is that what’s pissing them off?
Kerry Reid
@Ruckus: Could be! I don’t think it’s entirely accidental that all this PUA/Red Pill shit has taken off along with the unrestrained misogyny and racism of the GOP. “Submissive women are my birthright!”
goblue72
@MattF: Our politics lacks the phenomenon of political parties having para-military wings like you saw in early 20th century Europe. (I’d call clown car groups like the Oath Keepers or Minutemen Militia paramilitary groups, if it wouldn’t be so insulting to actual paramilitary groups)
On the other hand, our right-wing political party has managed to create a political structure through gerrymandering where even if it does’t command the support of the majority of the electorate, it still commands majority of the national legislature – and then uses every lever of government to de-legitimize and disempower the voting blocs of the opposition party (all that mandatory minimum sentencing, stopping felons of voting rights and recent voter ID crap). And it is openly for sale to the highest corporate bidder, having also used the levers of government to remove any and all restrictions on campaign finance.
I dunno, call it a 21st century American version of national socialism. A bit loosier-goosier, much less overtly violent domestically (but not internationally), but more durable & permanent – and thus harder to dislodge.
I mean shit – they launched a foreign war under completely false pretenses relying on the 2001 version of the Reichstag fire, and it took 13 years & global economic collapse to get it to finish.
Patrick
@Ruckus:
But they are not a minority. They are a majority when it comes to showing up at the voting booth on election day.
Elie
@Patrick:
But don’t forget the role of the great abdication brought about by the Democrats who ran away from any successes of the Obama administration. Remember this was also the time of when the administration was under fire because it had actually advocated for science during the Ebola scare and sheesh a bunch of Democrats were just scared to death and could not even be seen with the President. Yes, the Republicans won by showing up when the Democrats, led by DWS encouraged them to exclude any references to Democratic successes. So yeah, I got your point but NO — it also took stupid Democrats to make 2014 happen.
Ruckus
@Patrick:
Actually I don’t think they are. But as @goblue72: points out they have managed to rig the process so that even in minority they have clout. They don’t have to pass laws, just stop new ones getting passed other than locally and cut off funding to stuff they don’t like. They don’t have to be lawmakers, just financial blockage. And their tax policy takes care of the lack of money. They aren’t destroying the country one vote at a time (OK a bit) but one dollar at at a time.
Things cost money, nice things cost more Liberals think we should have nice things. Conservatives have no understanding that most of the nice things we need and want, which they also want BTW, can’t be bought individually by 99% of the people, these are what we call infrastructure, nice roads, health care, clean air/water, reasonable policing….. Problem they really don’t understand is that even the 1% can only buy some of this for themselves. And yes, the fundamentalists understand even less, which makes the job even harder.
Cervantes
@Brachiator:
I can’t imagine where.
Cervantes
@Kerry Reid:
Hadn’t seen that construction in the wild in twenty-five years, at least.
Frank Bolton
@ruemara:
I’m going to be using this metaphor a lot from now on. That is one of the best things I’ve heard on the internet.
Bokonon
You know, the sad thing is that the Tea Partiers will see the 31 percent support for shutting down the government unless Planned Parenthood gets defunded … and they will decide that they like those odds. Roll the dice!
And the GOP’s radicals have got good reason for feeling confident. Previous shutdowns (as well as the debt limit extortion attempts) have all polled poorly at the time … but then the public has rewarded the GOP come election time anyway. Few of the crazies lost their seats (and – their numbers actually grew). Plus the donations from corporate America kept coming.
Which is enough to make you pretty dispirited, when you think that the last shutdown clipped about $22 billion off the GDP for that year.
lonesomerobot
@Ruckus: Pretty sure if he started moving bills through without the majority of his caucus on board before now he would’ve been ousted. Now he can do that and not have to worry about the consequences. He knows it’s stupid to shut down the government over Planned Parenthood; not because he necessarily opposes it, but because it is really bad politics and just a stupid move for the party.
I agree, he is no centrist, but he has been around at least long enough to remember that the public will blame them if they shut down the government again. He’ll do what’s right for his party and the Tea Party whackjobs will hate him for it forever. But they do already, so whatevs.
Seanly
Why are so many of my fellow males such assholes?
Procopius
@OzarkHillbilly: He can pass any bill? Without being beholden to the Republican Party? He surely can get most Democrats to vote in favor of some kinds of bills, but the Republicans still have a majority in the house. Are you so sure enough of them will vote for a bill the Dems can also support? Is it really as easy as that? I don’t think so, but we’ll just have to wait and see.