Over at Vox, Matthew Yglesias says Jeb Bush should just drop out of the race now and endorse Rubio. Here are the most salient points of his argument:
Bush is also literally the only person on the planet earth who will be utterly incapable of tapping into a sense that Hillary Clinton’s campaign is a bit of a tired retread.
Marco Rubio, by contrast, is a dynamic public speaker and gutsy political risk-taker (recall that he got to the Senate by beating a sitting governor in a primary) who impresses staffers on both sides of the aisle who’ve worked with him. Rubio performs better than Bush in head-to-head polling against Clinton.
Yglesias is dead-wrong about Rubio being gutsy — recall how Rubio caved to the Neanderthals in his own party on immigration, curling up into the fetal position, whimpering and cupping his privates before voting against his own bill. It wasn’t exactly a profile in courage.
And winning the Senate seat over Charlie Crist was more a matter of luck than skill: Rubio was smart enough to ride the tea party wave, but so were many drooling mouth-breathers nationwide in 2010. It’s not a testament to Rubio’s political savvy or intellectual rigor to have been lifted by the same tsunami that temporarily deposited a loudmouthed deadbeat like Joe Walsh on the shores of Congress.
However, I think Yglesias is correct when he notes that Bush is the only candidate who utterly neutralizes the “retread” argument against Clinton. That said, Yglesias fails to note that Rubio isn’t very smart, which is certainly a relevant factor, though obviously not disqualifying in US politics. Still, it’s journalistic malpractice to not to even mention it.
As Yglesias observes, Bush has plenty of money to stay in the race, even if he’s a lackluster candidate. I’m still hoping his fat stacks carry him to the nomination.
Trump? Schmump! To repeat what I said in Zandar’s thread below, Trump has already peaked. The moment he decided to “tone it down,” he threw away the one thing that made him interesting to the Trumpenproletariat: his willingness to say the outrageous things they think on national TV.
Trump is a successful “reality TV star,” but he can’t credibly pull off “aspiring statesman.” His fate was sealed when he moronically decided to switch roles, but it will be fun to watch the Trump bubble deflate.
C.V. Danes
Also, America is not a planet.
Bobby Thomson
You seem to think he can’t ratchet it up again. I fail to see why not.
Alex S.
Yglesias probably tried to go for some Slate-ish controversial argument here, but because of Jeb’s inexcuseable performance so far, it’s not so far-fetched. Rubio’s favorables aren’t even THAT bad.
redshirt
Do you think he’s serious when he calls Rubio “gutsy”?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Christ, what am I missing? I guess if you compare him to Palin or Trump, he seems articulate and reasonable (if you’re not into those boring “facts”) but “dynamic”?
and that was the primary, no? Had Crist hugged Obama yet?
ETA: I can’t remember who said it, but someone pointed out that if Trump decides to go after Rubio on immigration (“amnesty”), that could take him out.
Betty Cracker
@Bobby Thomson: You’re right; he could. But he strikes me as the type of guy who goes all-in on a strategy.
Anoniminous
Yglesias is pulling it out of his nether regions. JEB! has the money, the support of the Party establishment, the support of the Corporate Wing, and a rudimentary GOTV operation in every state. He’s not going to drop out before April, at the earliest.
Steve in the ATL
Yglesias may be intelligent, but he is not so smart
Betty Cracker
@efgoldman: Scroll down. But it turns out to be an old story.
JPL
@efgoldman: The article was from 2004 but it is worth reading every day.
Villago Delenda Est
Yglesias is worthless Villager shit. Fuck him, and the horse he rode in on.
Betty Cracker
@efgoldman: I feel better now that I know an eminent personage such as Pierce was also hoodwinked by an errant newsfeed.
kindness
That ‘dynasty’ argument? I don’t think Democrats care about Hillary having been a former sitting President’s wife. I think the Hillary side of the argument would resonate with Republicans but surprise! surprise!, Republicans wouldn’t care about the same dynasty argument where Bush is concerned.
It’s a dumb argument. We can note the hypocrisy but it doesn’t matter as Republicans don’t care unless it’s Fox or their Sugar Daddie making an argument.
Betty Cracker
@kindness: I hope you’re right, and I think Democrats will support Clinton if she’s the nominee, but I hear the “dynasty” crap from plenty of people who should know better.
redshirt
I do think it will be weird to have Bill back in the white house. It will also lead to some confusion about roles and responsibilities. For example, will Bill engage in diplomatic efforts? Meet with foreign leaders? Whip congress over an important vote? What will the Vice President think of this?
gratuitous
@kindness: I think the “tired retread” objection exists only in the hive mind of the Villagers. It’s their way of bleating that they want someone or something new to cover, even if it’s as disastrously bad for the country as an ascendant T Rump candidacy. The consequences don’t matter, just whether it’s entertaining to them.
Bobby D
“Yglesias is dead-wrong”
You could have just stopped there. Most overrated hack to come out of that generation of bloggers turned pundit. I remember when young Matthew discovered monetary policy and went into a good two year, beyond embarassing, spree of pretending that he knew something about macro economics, the FED, and monetary policy. Hackety hack hack. How these morons fail upwards is a mystery to me, though nepotism connections seems to be a big factor.
Serioiusly, how are Yglesias, McArdle,Halperin, employable?
srv
Yawn. Bonfire of the Cucknanities
In other news:
@redshirt: Who will keep track of his interns?
Jeffro
Yglesias has arrived at the right conclusion (for the GOP) but for the wrong reasons, and he is appealing to Bush – the wrong person to decide.
Rubio is not a gifted politician, nor is he dynamic, nor is he gutsy (well, there was that one time on immigration, and I think young Marco learned what gutsy’ll get ya in today’s Republican Party). However, he is a stark contrast to Bush, who is spectacularly un-gifted, dynamic in all the wrong ways, and perhaps the least gutsy person to take a GOP debate stage since maybe Eisenhower?
Rubio: credible with the fundies, credible with the Tea Party base, young, Hispanic, will obviously take direction well from the GOP money boys. What’s not to love?
Bush: a bit shaky w/ the religious right, detested by the Tea Party base, and no good contrast to Hillary (assuming she is the Dem nominee). You’ll hear comparisons about how this is like nominating Romney while trying to make Obamacare an election issue.
It is funny, though, with them both being from FL (and thus unable to run on the same ticket)…it’s like in “Highlander”, only doubly so.
the Conster
Rubio is not smart or gutsy, and the whole beating Crist thing reminds me of how pundits read way too much into Scott Brown’s victory over Coakley because they’re lazy and like narratives instead of understanding all the context of the times and circumstances, which were in both Rubio and Brown’s instances, one-off events, never to be seen again.
Rubio is just simply not capable of bearing the weight of all that limelight, and he’ll crumble. All of these fucking politicians and pundits keep making the same error over and over by seeing Obama’s success, and thinking that if the black guy with the funny name can do it, how hard can it be? I don’t think they’ll ever get around to fully appreciating the kind of person Obama is, and the kind of thoughtfulness, stability and native smarts it takes to achieve what he has.
dedc79
Rubio’s approach to the first tow debates (for which he was inexplicably praised) was to memorize 4 or 5 60-second monologues and find a way to fit them into his answers, no matter what the question. Hence, in debate 1 we got a nice lecture about the Amazon Economy, and in debate 2 an overview of the groups competing for control in the power vacuum we created in the middle east.
He rattled off these monologues, without even pausing for air. Had he been asked to defend those remarks, he couldn’t have, because he probably didn’t even know/understand what he was saying.
The fact that he is being praised as a dynamic speaker surely speaks more to the absolute incompetence of everyone else in the GOP field.
jl
@redshirt: Historically, first ladies have been much more important than the effing VP. That goes back to Martha and Dolly. I think the widower Jefferson tapped Dolly Madison to do Congressional whip duties at WH dinners when VP Burr was on the lam for the murder, or maybe manslaugher(?) charge for killing Hamilton. But not sure, I’ll have to look it up.
Should have looked it up on wiki first, but I am lazy, and making trouble in comments is a duty here at BJ.
I expect to see Bill taking over the WH vegetable garden, and having camp outs with various Scout organizations, very heavily chaperoned, I expect. Bill Clinton probably could not handle a garden if his life depended on it, so he will be the straw boss while HRC’s people all the real work. Which will lead to another TravelwaterBenghaziieamil type scandal that the media will slobber over.
It will be fun.
jl
@efgoldman: And Eisenhower consciously disguised himself as a political bumbler as a tactic. He was a non partisan military war hero until he decided to run as a moderate Republican and he wanted to use that history to his advantage. I remember reading a quote where he assured some aide that he would answer questions at a press conference to confuse everyone as much as possible.
Brandon
Yglesias is so frequently wrong about so much he may as well change his name to Kristol.
Trollhattan
@redshirt:
Brave Sir Marco Bravely ran away.
(No!)
Bravely ran away away
(I didn’t!)
When danger reared its ugly head
He bravely turned his tail and fled
(Takes gulp)
Yes, brave Sir Marco turned about
(I didn’t!)
And gallantly he chickened out
Mike in NC
@dedc79: Once he drops out, Marco will have a bright future selling sinkholes in Florida.
Trollhattan
@redshirt:
“Hey Hillary, can we get our old bed back? (rechecks notch count)
Have a hunch that he’ll be out doing his Big Dog things more than hanging out at the WH.
jl
@efgoldman: Eisenhower was not perfect, and he dismissed Nixon as a vicious loon who could not do much on his own. And Nixon’s career immediately following his VP slot seemed to back that up. Eisenhower’s real concern was to push back against the reactionary wings of the GOP that were isolationist, or for preventive nuclear war, or for dismantling New Deal.
Anyway, Rubio is so far below Eisenhower’s league, I guess I felt I had to peep up when both names turned up in the same comment.
Betty Cracker
@dedc79: Bingo. Rubio reminds me of Sarah Palin quite a bit, actually, though he’s more articulate than that boob. I remember when McCain first picked Palin, I googled her and found some old clips of a debate for the Treasurer of the Alaska Department of Moose Abatement (or whatever it was she was running for at the time), and she didn’t sound like a complete fool because she was regurgitating talking points on a public access channel, and no one was challenging her. That’s Rubio. He’s no smarter than W or Palin and has poorer political instincts.
Mike in NC
It’ll be a pity when it’s JEBzzz turn to crash and burn. Right now Trump has a firm grip on his tiny testicles, and every time he squeezes them Bush cries out for his mama. Trump has been honing these attack skills for years.
Germy Shoemangler
@Mike in NC:
Except his mama turns away in disgust.
W was always her favorite.
dedc79
@Betty Cracker: Yeah, the key to exposing Rubio probably isn’t all that different than what worked with Palin. If you can get these morons off-script for even thirty-seconds, that’s all it takes.
It’s why Couric’s “what newspaper do you read?” and CNN’s “who would you put on the $10 bill?” softball questions paid such great dividends. They were softballs but they were surprise softballs.
Germy Shoemangler
The Death and Life of Atlantic City
Germy Shoemangler
I’m in moderation for mentioning where Trump did much of his business
FlipYrWhig
@Betty Cracker:
Because what people who say that mean is “she bores me and she’s not a liberal and her husband wasn’t a liberal and also I’m still irritated about triangulation and Iraq.” BTW, what proportion of people with a megaphone who complain about the Clinton “dynasty” wanted Caroline Kennedy instead of Kirsten Gillibrand to be appointed to Hillary’s Senate seat? A decent number, I’d guess…
FlipYrWhig
Also, on what planet is Marco Freakin’ Rubio “a dynamic speaker”? He might be a _competent_ speaker but “dynamic” is a high bar, and he’s so sibilant it’s distracting, especially when you take into account his youth. The overall effect is Eager-to-Please Fourth Grader. It doesn’t wear well. (Chris Christie, BTW, to my ear struggles with the letter R.)
Patricia Kayden
They all should drop out and let Trump win. Not sure the Koch Brothers would like that though.
Jeffro
@efgoldman: The first televised ones, you mean.
(Ok, ok, I get your point)
Mandalay
@dedc79:
This. Rubio appears knowledgeable to the gullible only because he parrots stuff he has memorized (and Fiorina did exactly the same thing during the last debate).
Ask Rubio simple questions such as whether reducing our deficit should be a priority, or to describe the impact of China revaluing its currency, or to identify the priority areas in rebuilding our nation’s infrastructure, and he’d be completely lost. He’s a complete fraud. Clinton would shred him in presidential debates.
catclub
@gratuitous:
Did not come up for old man McCain or Bob Dole. Funny that.
jl
Rubio gives me the impression of deer just barely smart enough to try to avoid staring directly into the headlights.
Longer sharks like Trump, Cruz, and Fiorina are in, the more likely he is to be run over. But, if he can last long enough to be in a smaller field hi might have a chance in the primary.
gus
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: He very earnestly repeats talking points, with such strong conviction that you almost believe that he believes them. When he got elected to the Senate, I heard he was a breath of fresh air, that he was a comer, articulate and bright. I made a point of listening to (I think) his acceptance speech when he won the election. Never have I heard a longer string of cliches and conservative boilerplate bs. Absolutely no content. Lots of “Murica, fuck yeah!” If you didn’t listen to the words, though, it didn’t sound bad. Yeah, he ain’t smart, but he’s well drilled.
Jeffro
In the meantime, the bigger-picture drumbeat picks up…
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/lifezette-laura-ingraham-gop-drop-out
She wants Gilmore, Pataki, Santorum, Graham, Huckabee, and Jindal out so that the race can focus on Trump, Jeb!, Carson, Paul, Cruz, Rubio, Fiorina, and Christie…essentially eliminating the “kids’ table” and Huck. Laura, Laura, you’re suffering from a failure of imagination here. Why not just pick your three faves and ask for 12 of these clowns to leave?
dedc79
@Mandalay: Yeah, and the less formal the structure of the presidential debates, the better. Get Hillary and any of the GOP candidates (I don’t think Rubio will get the nomination) seated at a table having an actual back and forth discussion rather than just delivering rehearsed talking points and game/set/match. Hell, Romney could run circles around this group of republicans. For one thing, he’s a way better liar.
catclub
Things I did not know about Jeb’s family:
Mike J
@efgoldman: Wasn’t Lincoln-Douglas a senate race debate?
Mandalay
@dedc79:
I mentally rolled my eyes when that was asked but it turned out to be the best question of the evening, and damaging for most of the candidates in different ways.
They had to give a very specific answer to a simple but unexpected question, and they blew it badly.
ThresherK (GPad)
Rubio is of Cuban descent. As “risk taking” goes, an R who is Cuban in FL is right up there with being a Christian white married male R in Texas in the”Wow, it takes a really good politician to get elected to statewide office” category.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@catclub: all the more reason to ask to please to explain:
So is mutliculturalism something wrong and scary we’re “creeping” toward, or is it “very American”?
(The Nooners would have used “slouching toward”, no doubt”. I hope people don’t jump on his use of “retarded”, but only Palin would and I don’t think she wants to pick a fight with Jeb?)
Brachiator
@Betty Cracker:
I think Democrats will support Clinton, but it’s not just ‘dynasty crap,’ and it would be unwise for people to ignore the potential problems here. You don’t have to overly dwell upon them, but they are real.
Still, her two bigger problems (both problems of perception): first, that she is insufficiently pure when compared to Bernie Sanders. Sanders is giving new hope to the stubborn Naderites of earlier election cycles. The second issue is the perception (yes, pumped up by the media) that her campaign is stalling and not exciting the base, and that Joe Biden needs to be drafted to rescue the party.
RSA
@FlipYrWhig:
Fixed. If Rubio were to make it to the general election, his water grab would be the equivalent of Mike Dukakis in a tank, I think.
Tim C.
Winning!
The only GOP candidate Trump beats head to head in Iowa?
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/very-very-revealing
beltane
Watching the Pope and the President right now. I think I hear wingnut heads exploding in the far off distance.
Waldo
As the field shrinks, Rubio’s relative merits are going to start to look a bit thin — but, hey, why not. Fact is almost anyone with a pulse would have appeared dynamic sharing a stage with sleepy Ben, drunk uncle John and Scotty the charisma vacuum.
Well, anyone but Jeb.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
There is also the argument, that HRC is already making, that Rubio’s policies are retreads, and between Trump and likes of Ingram, I don’t know if Rubio can hold back the forces of darkness on immigration– I understand Limbaugh is flogging the amnesty horse now, too? Trump write-ins could be the butterfly ballot of 2016. Also, Planned Parenthood has them stirred up. I don’t know if GOP Nominee ’16 will be able to get away with not talking about abortion like McCain and Willard. And I think we’ve reached a point where even people who are ambivalent or unenthusiastic about LGBT issues think talking about “traditional marriage” sounds like your elderly relations that you and your cousins roll your eyes at.
Bobby Thomson
@Jeffro: I was just thinking it’s about time to move to top 8 in the debates, full stop. Even eight is unwieldy. Just for administrative convenience. It’s not as though the kids are pulling any votes, or even any attention.
Betty Cracker
@Brachiator: It is crap to speak of the Bush and Clinton “dynasties” as if they are in any way equivalent. Hillary Clinton is the highly accomplished wife of self-made man. Both came from families that had to struggle to make it. Sure it’s a boost to her politically that her husband was the president, but they both worked their asses off to get there.
The Walker-Bush gang has had its fingers in US politics practically since they rolled off the Mayflower, and within living memory the father purchased governorships for the sons to groom them for the presidency, with a larger plan of foisting off the next worthless generation on the country too. One of these things is not like the other…
the Conster
OT, but after months of focus group testing, Hillary just came out against Keystone XL.
piratedan
Rubio? Dynamic Public Speaker? Last I heard, he failed miserably on his State of the Union response and the other times, people actually see the hand up his asshole manipulating the controls on the eyes to focus on the teleprompter. He’s not saying anything that the other claimants to the brass ring aren’t saying and about the only differentiating factor is that he’s not as spittle flecked in his vapidity.
Jeffro
@Bobby Thomson: Maybe they should do it SURVIVOR-style? “We’ll let you debate, but everyone on the stage must agree to drop out if they are polling below 5% 48 hours after the debate concludes.” Why not? It’s not as if it would turn the whole GOP primary process into (more of) a circus.
Cervantes
So … his offering that bill in the first place … you would put that down to, say, stupidity rather than, say, gutsiness?
low-tech cyclist
I’d personally love it if Jeb! dropped out, and left Rubio as the main Establishment guy in the race. My optimal scenario for 2016 is: Rubio manages to stumble into winning the nomination, but demonstrates in the fall that he’s maybe half a step above Sarah Palin in terms of coherence.
The upshot is that the Establishment wing of the party is totally humiliated, and the wingnuts take over to a degree that even the MSM can’t ignore or play both-sides-do-it games with.
Anyhow, that’s why nobody’s gonna lean on Jeb! to get out of the race. Think of him as a starting pitcher who’s given up a few runs already by the fifth inning, and has been on the verge of getting majorly lit up practically every inning so far. But last night, you used most of your bullpen to excess, and all you’ve got left for tonight are Rubio and Kasich. So you leave Jeb! in, even though he’s struggling, because your bullpen sucks even worse.
Corner Stone
@the Conster:
There’s no winning with asshats like you. Now she’s going to be pilloried for slighting Obama, and gets to hear BS like this as well.
Jeffro
@Bobby Thomson: I expect this week and next will have a lot of the national media harassing the candidates who are polling below 2%, asking them how they really think they might succeed, what they’re hoping to get out of this other than Veep consideration, etc etc. Should be a beaut.
I still say Graham hangs in there until the day after Paul drops out, claiming vindication for the hawks over Paul’s isolationist views.
Corner Stone
Yglesias is a fucking idiot.
jl
@Jeffro: Wonkette says a tag team WWE matches would be best, and even better with la lucha masks, except that might be un-American for the GOP.
the Conster
@Corner Stone:
Yeah, qwhaT3vr. Why even say anything at this point? Who asked her?
Corner Stone
@Betty Cracker:
And yet even the very liberal MSNBC continually refers to both Jeb and HRC campaigns as dynasties.
Anyone who thinks she is a candidate of dynasty is an unmitigated asshat.
Germy Shoemangler
@Corner Stone: I thought Obama was against Keystone as well?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@the Conster: Wow. Good on’er. I kinda feel obligated to send her some money now.
Corner Stone
@the Conster: Probably because she’s running for president and it’s kind of a thing.
Look, we get it. She could say something and get trashed by unhinged Obama acolytes or she could say nothing and get trashed by people like you and askew.
But I repeat myself.
the Conster
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Bernie throws shade:
Corner Stone
@Germy Shoemangler: My point being it just doesn’t matter what she says, some asshats will never be satisfied.
bemused
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
He talks up his multicultural family in a Spanish interview and says we shouldn’t have a multicultural society when talking to white conservatives.
Betty Cracker
@Cervantes: I would put the proposal down to a bad reading of the political zeitgeist. The pollsters were telling Republicans to fix this immigration thing stat or risk political irrelevancy on the national stage, and Rubio thought he was just the guy to do it. He was wrong, and he caved. That’s an example of his lack of guts. The examples of his stupidity are many.
Germy Shoemangler
@bemused:
That was my first reaction as well!
I’m sure RightToRise can explain.
NotMax
Marco has the fresh-faced deer in the headlights look down pat, I’ll give him that. Otherwise, whatever Yglesias is smoking or ingesting, he needs to lay off.
IIRC, the Senate election was a 3-way race with Crist, running as an independent, coming in second. Had it been a more normal head-to-head race, would Rubio have won? Tough to say, but might have just squeaked it out in a Republican tsunami off-year election.
Germy Shoemangler
@Corner Stone:
I still say the villagers screaming “Biden! Biden! Biden!” is just their passive-aggressive way of sticking it to Obama. They’re all “So who ya gonna endorse? Your Sec of State or your VP? Hmm??”
I don’t think they give a fuck if Biden is president or not.
Heliopause
Do you really think so? Check out his Twitter feed for the last 24 hours, it’s jihad all the way.
I’m not sure we’ve seen peak Trump. Seems to me he’s got more chops for the long haul than either of the other non-politicians, whom I would guess are at much bigger risk for the quick flameout, but who knows, I guess we’ll find out.
And I still am not sure Rubio can stick it out to the end. He’s a sweaty little pipsqueak who, like Fiorina, is adept at reciting movement conservative talking points for thirty seconds at a time, but running for Prez requires a lot more than just that.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@NotMax: you’re right, he beat Crist in the primary, then in the general
Roger Moore
@Jeffro:
Because that would leave too few to have an interesting horse race.
catclub
@bemused: I did notice that. That is a sign of the old style pols who thought no one would remember what they said to some other audience.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Germy Shoemangler: I think it’s a combination of Hillary-hate and genuine affection for Biden, who was a Member of the Club long before he became “Uncle Joe”, “Handsome Joe”, “Onion Joe”, whatever you want to call him. And I suspect that Village love, if he listens to it, is going to lead him to waste a lot of time, money and effort.
Corner Stone
@Germy Shoemangler:
Heck. They are dying for either Biden or HRC to be the next president. Talk about the easiest job, ever! They already have a pre-written narrative for both of them for like the next 4 years. Only need to fill in a dateline and the “anonymous senior staff sources” will be remarkable full throated discussing either Biden’s gaffes and foot in mouth or HRC’s illegal murder death cheating taxpayer scandals.
kped
Do people actually consider Rubio a dynamic speaker? Every time I see him speak he looks like the kid who didn’t prepare enough, and is rushing (and sweating) through his speech. He’s a 12 year old in his fathers suit, pretending to be a big boy.
bemused
@catclub:
White conservatives probably won’t read the translation of Spanish interview unless rightwing media points it out to them.
Roger Moore
@Jeffro:
I think you could do some kind of reality TV like elimination system and do a better job than what they’re currently doing. As a rough guide, there wouldn’t be any televised debates until relatively close to the start of primary season. Then the candidates would move as a group from state to state as their primaries/caucuses were coming up. They’d have a debate in each state shortly before the primary or caucus, and then the voters of that state would vote one or more candidates off the ballot. After the first 5 or so states, the ballot would be down to the strongest four or five candidates, at which point the run for delegates would start in earnest. It would make great TV, given that the candidates would know they were at risk of dropping off the ballot, and it wouldn’t even be that bad of a way of picking a candidate.
NotMax
Time has arrived for separation of Yglesias and state.
NotMax
@Roger Moore
“Thanks for playing. A gift of our home game and some lovely consolation prizes await you backstage.”
Roger Moore
@Germy Shoemangler:
I think it’s more of a way of trying to inject some excitement into what has been a relatively boring race so far. They want fireworks of the kind the Republicans are producing, both for ratings and so they can say “Democrats in disarray!”, but Hillary and Bernie have failed to produce. So they’re trying to push the Biden angle in the hopes it will liven things up.
Brachiator
@Betty Cracker:
Nobody is claiming that the two “dynasties” are equivalent. But there are people with Bush or Clinton fatigue. They are simply tired of seeing representatives of the families show up again and again and again.
Even strong Hillary supporters note that one of Hillary’s problems has nothing to do with a personal or individual weakness. It is simply that Obama is a tough act to follow. By comparison she seems like a return to old days and old styles.
And it is not just a boost that Hillary’s husband was the president; it is a significant component to her path to power.
The Bush gang has been around longer, but again the bottom line is that many people are simply tired of them. And Trump’s presence accentuates Jeb! looking like a listless insult to the exclamation point.
Seanly
@Villago Delenda Est:
The term I like is “..and sway-backed horse he rode into town”. Yglesias is just a hipster douchebag David Broder in waiting.
Rubio gutsy & dynamic? hahahhahahahahaha
Cervantes
@Betty Cracker:
Thanks for elaborating. I appreciate it. Rubio puzzles me a little.
NotMax
@Cervantes
Rubio’s the kid who deliberately orbited the nucleus of the popular group in high school, thinking that made him a part of their clique.
Patricia Kayden
@Betty Cracker: True. There is no Clinton Dynasty unless Chelsea decides to run.
Morzer
@kped:
On the Jeb!-Trump scale, he registers a mighty 1.43 Jeb!s.
Elizabelle
@jl:
from previous thread: you wrote:
Linky? Would love to see it. Thanks.
Brachiator
@efgoldman:
You might be right about Sanders. But there are so many people, including BJ folk, saying “I am going to vote for Sanders, but then will support Hillary in the eelction,” that you gotta wonder if this enthusiasm might last and cause problems.
On the other hand, if Biden decides to enter the race, all bets are off, and it will be ugly.
Mandalay
@NotMax:
He is chasing mouse clicks, just as Trump chases free publicity. He probably came up with the headline “Jeb Bush should drop out for the good of the Republican Party” first, then wrote an article to fit it. That’s why the content was drivel. Coming up with the best click bait headline probably took more effort than the article.
There wouldn’t even be an OP on this if he had given his article a bland title such as “Bush struggling against Rubio”.
Yglesias knows exactly what he is doing.
ruemara
Matt Y is absolutely high if he thinks this about Rubio.
Betty Cracker
@Brachiator: People who say “no more dynasties” in reference to Bush and Clinton most certainly are implying, if not outright stating, an equivalence. If they’re sick of Bush and Clinton, they should just say so without all the garbage about the same two families aspiring to control US politics for generations. One really has. The other has not.
As for Obama being a tough act to follow, let’s all boo-hoo over that right now and get it out of our systems. I like Obama too; he was the first primary candidate I ever supported who actually won. He’s been a good president.
But anyone who uses that as an excuse to piss and moan about Hillary Clinton (should she be our nominee) or demand a grand historical procession with an avatar to represent their own personal generational cohort needs to get right the fuck over themselves, and quick.
I realize some people think that way. I just don’t feel the need to respect that line of thought (which you seemed to imply above that I should) because it’s potentially so very harmful.
Mandalay
@Roger Moore:
Perhaps, but Biden is hardly being a shrinking violet. How many times is he going to tell us he is grieving, deliberating and soul searching? It’s getting a bit tacky.
kped
@Morzer: Too reach a 10 on that scale, you must brag about how much other people agree with you. “I’m a great speaker, even people on the twitter think so”.
Roger Moore
@NotMax:
Just remember that one of the consolation prizes is likely to be a gig on the wingnut welfare circuit. It would certainly soften the blow.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
That argument always reminds me if this quip.
misterpuff
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Dynamic in the sense of water running through a dynamo…. no I can’t pull off a water joke here.
Dynamic, my ass.
SFAW
@Brachiator:
Fuck them and fuck Nader.
Fortunately, there’s a little more to Bernie than being a latter-day Nader.
But the 2016 ticket I think would be really interesting would be Trump/Nader – the Team So Yuuuuge That the DSM Had to Create a New Class of Uber-Narcissism.
ETA: The only question would be: if you put two narcissists of that magnitude next to each other, do they a-splode? (Like a nyucyular reaction.)
SFAW
@Mandalay:
It’s not as if he buys air time to keep telling the world that, you know.
And, frankly, given what he’s been through, I’m more than inclined to cut him a lot of slack. And although I may not be the cutter-of-the-least-slack in this joint, I’m within spitting distance of whoever that may be.
Morzer
@Betty Cracker:
Tokugawa third generation, represent!
SFAW
@Morzer:
Hai!
Villago Delenda Est
@Cervantes: If he had any guts, he’d have defended that bill.
SFAW
I dunno, I think Rubio could be considered dynamic. Or, at least, some of his positions are, such as immigration.
Of course, that’s speaking as someone who used to think in engineering terms, meaning dynamic vs. static.
(I would still think that way, if I had more than two brain cells to rub together.)
Brachiator
@Betty Cracker:
I never said that you had to respect any line of thought.
What I said was that the issue of Bush and Clinton fatigue was real. I also said that this was not as important as other factors.
Voters do not look to either you or me for the approval, validation or negation of their views. But if Clinton fatigue, or even viewing the Clintons as a dynasty, is a problem, then the Clinton campaign will have to deal with it.
What they cannot do is say, “screw you, just vote for me.”
And other Balloon Juicers can sing that song from The Wiz, “Don’t Nobody Bring Me No Bad News” all day and all night. But it will not change what the candidates have to overcome to appeal to voters.
The “following Obama” factor is a problem because Hillary Clinton does not come off as a skilled political campaigner. Simply saying or trying to sell her as “highly accomplished” as though this alone should be sufficient is not getting the job done.
But the bottom line is that it is early in the campaign, and the main focus is on the daily chaos of the GOP Circus. By comparison, anything said about the Democrats is really idle chit chat.
@SFAW :
Not sure what would happen. But I think someone might say that they would get their “just deserts.”
SFAW
@Brachiator:
Like “Pie a la mogordo”?
hitchhiker
HRC had to take Bill’s name way back when b/c the good citizens of Arkansas thought it was suspicious that she was going around calling herself Hillary Rodham.
Now she gets grief for having his name, as if the two of them were siblings or parent/child.
I don’t think it’s quite sunk in just yet to a lot of people: the USA might be about to elect a woman as the leader of the free world and commander in chief of the mightiest, most expensive military ever known. She’s definitely the most qualified person in the race, and arguably one of the most qualified in the country.
Biden . . . Biden has not yet atoned for his abysmal performance as chair of the Senate Judiciary committee hearings in which Clarence Thomas’ supporters were given days to call Anita Hill a grasping, crazy slut and all witnesses who could have factually supported what she said were told there wasn’t enough time. Biden did that.
Jeffro
@Germy Shoemangler:
Sticking it to Obama…by pushing the guy’s own VP, the person most likely to transition smoothly and continue carrying out everything Obama has done?
Um…
Actually, I’m begging the question. No one, not even the Villagers, are screaming “Biden!”
Omnes Omnibus
@hitchhiker:
recovered from the recent death of his son – if one ever recovers from something like that.
mclaren
You’re not getting it. No one in the Republican party cares whether any of these goofs can credibly pull off “aspiring stateman.” Look at Ronald Reagan:
Didn’t matter. The Cruel Man With the Constant Smile went on to win by a landslide and govern for 8 years of malfeasance, ignorance, incompetence, lizard-brained stupidity, and sheer dementia…and nobody cared.
Politics is all appearances now, reality doesn’t count.
mclaren
@hitchhiker:
Biden has not yet atoned for cheerleading the Iraq clusterfuck for 4 long nightmarish years from 2003 to 2008.
Biden has not yet atoned for writing the original horrific asset forfeiture legislation that has turned the American “justice” system into the “just-us” system (in which “us” means thieves wearing badges).
Biden has not yet atoned for his public statements that “marijuana is a gateway drug” and “it is a mistake to legalize it” and “we need stronger penalties for marijuana use” and “Mr. president, we need a D-Day in the war against drugs!” (Said to George H. W. Bush in 1990.)
Biden has not yet atoned for writing the Omnibus Counterterrorism Act in 1995, the precursor of the vile unconstitutional USA
PatriotTreason Act.Source: “Joe Biden Drafted the Core of the Patriot Act in 1995 …Before the Oklahoma City Bombing,” Washington’s blog, 10 December
2011.
Biden has not yet atoned for creating the insane position of “drug czar” with legislation that ramped up the crazy counterproductive War On Drugs.
Biden has not yet atoned for dishonestly and ignorantly called Julian Assange “just another high-tech terrorist.”
Biden has not yet atoned for his role in creating, promoting, and expanding torture and government kidnapping (misnamed “extraordinary rendition”) and the assassination of U.S. citizens without a trial, or even accusing them of committing a crime.
Biden has not yet atoned for his role in promoting and supporting the insane clusterfuck misnamed the Iraq Invasion in 2003, and for supporting the endless unwinnable debacle misnamed the war in Afghanistan.
Biden has not yet atoned for a list of unconstitutional crimes, illegal legislation, bad policies, and outright crimes and thievery and bribery, up to and including getting one of his sons appointed to a Ukrainian energy company’s board of directors in an act of outright flagrant bribe-taking — a list of crimes, bribes, thefts, con jobs, ripoffs, scams, incompetent authoritarian legislation and police-state thuggery so lengthy that it would require the Libary of Congress just to house the documentation of it.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Omnes Omnibus: A guy once said this: A time will come when the thought of your loved one brings a smile to your face as opposed to a tear to your eye. I’m afraid that time has not arrived for the VP.
jl
@Elizabelle: Check the KCBS news radio website.
SFAW
@mclaren:
You forgot
PolandNeil Kinnock!NobodySpecial
@Betty Cracker: I think ‘dynasty’ is used as shorthand for ‘Hillary Clinton has been a staple in your daily news longer than Miley Cyrus, among others, has been alive.’
Cervantes
@hitchhiker:
I wasn’t impressed, either.
On the other hand he did handle the Bork nomination quite well.
SFAW
@Cervantes:
Killjoy.
Cervantes
@SFAW:
That’s what the Republicans said, anyway.
Joel
I’ll believe Trump has peaked when I see it. Until then, it’s red shirts and yellow shirts.
Sloegin
Between ‘Walker’s’ speech and what Larua Ingram is voicing, looks like the Republican paymasters are issuing their orders: drop out of the race so the remaining candidates have better numbers versus Trump.
This seems to ignore the fact that Trump is the #2 choice of supporters of people who might get ordered out of the running.
Barry
@Cervantes: “So … his offering that bill in the first place … you would put that down to, say, stupidity rather than, say, gutsiness?”
Yes. Remember, one big thing about the past 2-3 years is The Base b*tchslapping the GOP elites on this issue, and actually making it stick.
When Rubio proposed that, he likely figured that he was the Great Young Hispanic Hope of the GOP.
mclaren
@C.V. Danes:
“Also, America is not a planet.”
How dare you say that! America c is the greatest nation in the country (as Spiro Agnew pointed out).