Annoying street preachers, or campus preachers, are not just an American phenomenon. A very loud and and stroppy one was rightly interrupted by a lone piper on the streets of St. Andrews, Scotland (h/t: Raw Story):
I lived in St. Andrews for three years between 1992 and 1995 while doing my first graduate degree. In fact my second year there I lived in a flat about a block down Market Street to the west from where this happened. At that time we had a husband and wife team of street preachers. They would also knock on doors as well. At one point they were banned from British Airways. They would purchase round trip shuttle flights back and forth between Edinburgh and London and in the 20 minutes or so one could walk around, they’d go up and down the aisles and preach. I can’t recall if they were banned from British Rail as well.
They had a little storefront church about half a block east of the fountain on Market Street – if I remember correctly. Most people I knew basically tolerated them. And I don’t remember anything much about homophobic preaching, just trying to get everyone to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. The reason for most of the tolerance is that they came to that version of their faith, and this burning drive to evangelize, because of a tragedy. One of their children died before baptism and they were convinced that meant their child was suffering an eternity in Hell. They wanted everyone to be saved so no one else would suffer the same fate as their child.**
I remember the first time I met them. The wife had knocked on my door and when I opened it she started asking if I knew about Jesus. I politely explained that I was Jewish. This did not get rid of her… So we had a very polite chat and she went on her way. I always felt a bit sad for her and her husband whenever I saw them. It always seemed to me that people often make their lives a living hell in the attempt to escape the literal Hell they believe in.
* Scots, wha hae is a nationalistic song written by Robert Burns – the Bard of Scotland. It, along with Scotland the Brave (being piped by the braw lad in the video) and the Flower of Scotland, is considered to be an unofficial national anthem for Scotland. I’m quite partial to the Kingdom Folk Band’s version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9so_OV1jvU
** I apologize for being vague, but after 20 years I can’t recall if it was their daughter or their son. Either way, no parent should have to go through that. I am pretty certain I’ve been in the flat where the video was taken from.
PaulW
@efgoldman:
Yew bastid. THEMS FIGHTING WERDS
jl
Glad to see Scots bagpipes good for something.
Now there, see, Bernie is right, we here in the States can learn things from success stories in other social democratic countries.
Adam L Silverman
@efgoldman: don’t make me post the picture of me in my formal highland wear…
benw
Up yer shaft.
SiubhanDuinne
I spent a few weeks in St Andrews in the summer of 1975 taking various music and musical theatre courses. Lived in Hamilton Hall (I don’t think it exists now, or at least I don’t think it’s a dorm anymore). My room overlooked the 1st tee of the R&A and because it was high summer, there were people golfing until nearly 11:00 at night and teeing up again around 3:30-4:00 in the morning.
If I leaned WA-A-AY out my window and craned my head around to the right, I could just glimpse the North Sea.
It was magical.
Ruckus
It always seemed to me that people often make their lives a living hell in the attempt to escape the literal Hell they believe in.
Such a nice thought, as if the hell presented to scare us into allegiance wasn’t enough, we create hell right here to justify the belief that we must suffer to be accepted by that which is supposed to save us from suffering. Nice little catch that catch 22.
Adam L Silverman
@efgoldman: This one. And a whole bunch of native Jewish Scottish folks I met when over there.
jl
@Adam L Silverman:
” don’t make me post the picture of me in my formal highland wear…”
Don’t have time to look it up in the BJ Manual of Conduct, but I don’t think you will be a real BJ front pager until you submit yourself to a ritual humilation. Then you will earn commenter respect and you will be yelled at and harassed mercilessly.
@Adam L Silverman:
“This one”
Now you have to post it. Or tell a story about what the wind did one day, to your disgrace.
Zinsky
I think the only time a Scotsman said, “What the hey…” is when he was shitfaced on Old Kilearney and his kilt got stuck in a paper shredder….
Tissue Thin Pseudonym
Six days until the Gophers hit the ice for their exhibition game against the Minnesota Whitecaps. Then sports season really begins.
Adam L Silverman
@SiubhanDuinne: Hamilton goes back and forth between being a residence hall and a hotel. When I was there it was a residence hall. The woman I dated my last year in St. Andrews lived there. Several new – when I was there – residence halls had been put up on the North Haugh by the university’s fitness department and center and the sciences buildings. I’m not sure whether its a residence hall or a hotel now.
Spring through summer there was magical. Sunset around 11:00/11:30. Of course I worked as a bouncer at the Student Union so about an hour or so after I’d dragged myself home from work, showered off the smells of stale smoke and beer, and crawled into bed the sun would rise and the birds would start chirping…
Adam L Silverman
@jl: I’ll take that under advisement… I wore it to a formal. Rented it from the Highland House on Market Street. Funny story. One weekend before we deployed to Iraq one of my teammates and I flew to Scotland. We had a long weekend, which was standard predeployment to give the Soldiers in the brigade time to spend with family. So we flew over from Germany and stayed with friends of mine now living just outside Glasgow and toured around. When we were in St. Andrews we popped into the Highland House because my teammate’s son is a bagpiper (as well as playing about 30 other instruments – the kids gifted!) and he wanted to get some idea what getting a kilt would cost. The little old lady who did all the fittings actually remembered me some 13 years later. Went right to her card index and pulled out my rental information.
Doug R
Meanwhile in Portlandia:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cnVjkE87FDY
Chris
I still tell people trying to convert me that I’m Catholic. It doesn’t get rid of all of them, but it does reduce their numbers quite a bit.
Feels kind of like being a woman who says “I have a boyfriend” as a polite version of “stop hitting on me.”
Ruckus
@Adam L Silverman:
the sun would rise and the birds would start chirping…
A poem for you.
When I woke up this morning
the dawn was soft and still
A little robin came and sat
upon my window sill
He tipped his head and looked at me
his eyes so bright and clear
He chirped a little melody
My morning thoughts to cheer
His song he sang so sweetly
Without a moments lull
I gently closed the window
and crushed his fucking skull.
SiubhanDuinne
@Adam L Silverman:
I remember walking up (North Street?) to the ruined cathedral and passing a number of little cottages which boasted some of the most glorious gardens I’ve ever seen. And there was a wonderful, classic, slightly fly-blown tea shop with mismatched crockery and the most divine pastries. Once I discovered it, I headed over nearly every afternoon.
Had my first haggis in Hamilton Hall. Thank dog for whisky.
jl
@Adam L Silverman: Not only am I 25 percent true Scotsman, but also raised Scots Presbyterian, so that story is more than racy enough for me. Thanks.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym
Stanford up by 10. Go Trees!
Ruckus
@Chris:
I used to be polite when people would try and convert me. Now I tell them to just go away. If that doesn’t work, I ask them if they are deaf. If they say no then I ask them why they can’t understand when some tells them nicely to fuck off. That usually works. If they tell me they are deaf, I just give them the sign for fuck off. May not be nice but then I’m not the one interrupting someone with bullshit.
Adam L Silverman
@SiubhanDuinne: I lived in one of those my last year there. Three doors down from North Hall right across from the ruins. And far too close to the all night bakery…
PurpleGirl
It’s been a few years since I dated a guy who really liked Robbie Burns. He bought me a book of Burns poetry. But I don’t remember him having any of Burns music. Not sure but I think Scots Wha Hae may have been used for background music for a Highlander episode. The episode I’m thinking about involved Robert the Bruce and one of the supporters being/becoming an immortal.
I got lost over at YouTube playing and playing Scots Wha Hae and a couple of other pieces. Gotta bookmark the site.
In other thoughts that I can’t resist: Isn’t St. Andrews where tRump has had all sorts of trouble because he wants to build a golf course. (Or has he built the damn thing that the locals didn’t want.)
srv
First they came for the Ranchers, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Rancher.
Then they came for the County Clerks, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a County Clerk.
Then they came for the Bagpipers, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Bagpiper.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Bout fuckin time
Chris
@efgoldman:
I should try telling them I’m Muslim. I go enough days without shaving already, that might lend credence to the claim.
PurpleGirl
@efgoldman: I once told a JW that I was an happy pagan. And then closed the door.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@PurpleGirl: I’ve heard if you tell them you’re apostate– an ex-JW– they can’t get away fast enough. None too fond of Papists either, as I understand? The ones I get are very polite, I just say I’m really busy, they hand me a pamphlet, they go away, and I recycle their paper.
wuzzat
I’ve found that “No, but if I see him I’ll tell him you’re looking for him” is the best response to “Have you found Jesus?”
Ruckus
@efgoldman:
Right now it is a moot point, I live in a security building and someone would have to let them in. It was a plus point in the places favor that no one knocks on my door without me first knowing about it and who they are. Plus it’s urban southern CA which seems to cut down on the nut jobs for some reason. Go figure. Even the homeless living in the park a block away are decent neighbors.
Adam L Silverman
@PurpleGirl: I’m a big fan. One of my closest friends over there was a singer when she wasn’t being a historian. She routinely did Burns Ca the Yowes. I’m particularly partial to version 2. Here’s Sileas’s singing it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpGqwLcFc_E
I’m also a big fan of Fairport Convention’s rendition of Burns’ Lay of Tamlin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2aNgwV8R7U
I also highly recommend Runrig.
I know in Highlander they used Bonny Portmore in an episode (the one where Macleod’s parent’s graves are desecrated), as well as Wild Mountain Thyme.
SRW1
@srv:
Not one of your better ones. Too strained.
Ruckus
@Chris:
I’ve got a full beard and that doesn’t work. Maybe it’s because I’m also about as white as it gets. But saving the soul of a savage is an E ticket ride for them. The pagan or Satanist thing usually works to scare them away. I just prefer the more direct approach.
Ruckus
@wuzzat:
I likey.
John Revolta
@Adam L Silverman: Good to know a Fellow Fairport Fan ’round the place!
Cervantes
Perhaps better than a flight I was on, Aeroflot from Moscow to Leningrad, where a small fleet of fishermen had some of their catch with them, raw as opposed to fresh, which they proceeded to hawk up and down the aisle. Needless to say, this was in the (very) early days of perestroika.
Adam L Silverman
@John Revolta: A very big fan. When I was an undergrad at Emory, several guys I worked with were musicians. They had a band called the Sleepwalkers. I had a van – so I became the gear manager. Oversaw load ins and load outs. Things like that. One of the two lead singers, also the lead guitarist, turned me on to Fairport. I was already a big fan of Jethro Tull.
Cervantes
@Adam L Silverman:
Runrig is, indeed, excellent.
PurpleGirl
@Adam L Silverman: Beautiful music. Thanks for the links.
Roger Moore
@jl:
Or post pictures of all your pets. That’s actually the preferred method.
joel hanes
Hey there brother
Who you jivin’ with that cosmic debris ?
Hey there brother
Don’t you waste your time on me
[ Don’t you know … you could make more money as a butcher ]
So don’t you waste your tiime
Amir Khalid
@Chris:
Fine, but make sure you’re not holding a beer when you say that. That would kind of give away the deception.
@Ruckus:
Some Muslims are indeed white. I’ve met some Scandinavian, English and German converts.
jl
@Amir Khalid:
” Fine, but make sure you’re not holding a beer when you say that. That would kind of give away the deception. ”
The immigrant Yemeni patriarch who lives a few buildings down explained some of Islam to me the other day and how he was a perfectly good Muslim while he was sucking on a beer. I didn’t see any problem. He made lots of sense.
FlipYrWhig
Hey, I’ve been to St. Andrews!
Adam L Silverman
@Roger Moore: I’ve been meaning to do that. Perhaps tomorrow if I get a chance.
Origuy
@Cervantes: I took a train from Moscow to Sergeiev Posad, about a two hour trip (hard seat). There were vendors, buskers, and beggars going through the train. There might have been preachers, too, but my Russian isn’t good enough to pick that up.
Origuy
@jl: I’ve heard some Muslims claim that the Prophet only forbade wine, thus beer and other drinks are not haram. I’m dubious.
Cervantes
@Amir Khalid:
Cat Stevens.
Jemima Goldsmith, heiress.
Lauren Booth, Tony Blair’s sister-in-law.
Charles Pelham, Earl of Yarborough.
Carlos the Jackal.
John Revolta
@Amir Khalid: @Cervantes: Richard Thompson!
Cervantes
@Origuy:
A pilgrimage?
And when were you there?
Cervantes
@John Revolta:
Speaking of Fairport.
Amir Khalid
@Origuy:
By that logic, whiskey is not wine and therefore not haram, which is absurd. It’s the fact that alcohol is an intoxicant that makes alcoholic drinks haram. You can get drunk on beer, so it’s most definitely haram.
Ruckus
@Amir Khalid:
Of course you are right but given that most of the fundamentalists that are the most obnoxious are actually idiots they don’t seem to know that.
redshirt
Scots are just estranged Norwegians.
And Scottish-Americans are just Americans.
divF
@Adam L Silverman:
@John Revolta:
Also a great fan of Liege and Lief, especially Tam Lin. The album is one of the things on my smartphone for long drives.
Also too, Van Morrison’s Astral Weeks.
Emerald
Let us not forget the St. Andrews town cat, Hamish McHamish, who sadly passed from this world only one year ago, a few months after the town put up a bronze statue of him.
Yet, people still frequent his Facebook page! Go there and Like it! Hamish Lives!
Hamish McHamish of St. Andrews
Morzer
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Now why oh why does Balloon-Juice deny me my constitutional right to like your comment 100 billion times?
Morzer
@Emerald:
Do you know about the Japanese station master cat who became a Shinto god?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tama_%28cat%29
Emerald
@Morzer: Ah yes, they do love their kitties in Japan. A cat-loving country.
Like Scotland!
RK
After doing things she wasn’t pleased with, do you think Mary ever said to Jesus, “Oh Jesus, Jesus!”?
jl
@redshirt: What ever happened to stingy Scotsman jokes? I never hear them anymore, and being a proud 25 percent true Scots-American, I am worried that our cultural traditions are being lost.
Morzer
@Emerald:
Here’s another Scotto-Japanese story you might like:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masataka_Taketsuru
I’ve actually gone to the distillery they founded together in Hokkaido, although I am not a whisky drinker. Madame Morzer tells me that the Taketsuru brand whisky is pretty good, having worked her way through a couple of bottles of it that we brought back with us. The distillery has tours that culminate in three free shots of whisky and apple wine per person. I drank the apple wine, which I found congenial. Yoichi is in the heart of Japan’s apple country, so it ought to be good.
By an odd coincidence, when we visited Hokkaido, NHK was running its drama serial “Massan” and we saw it every day at breakfast in the hotel. We managed not to laugh too openly, but it was terribly melodramatic and the lead actress was absolutely terrible at Japanese – a slow, stilted delivery quite at odds with the rather overheated family feud dialogue.
Morzer
@jl:
The Scots-American Social Justice Warriors of Appalachia, man. They ruined it all for everyone with their liberal political correctness.
redshirt
@Morzer: Have you ever considered walking the Appalachian Trail? [80’s music]
SarahT
@Ruckus: My Mom would see Jehovah’s Witnesses coming up the street, ready a bucket of hot (not boiling, ok ?) Water, and dump it on them from the upstairs window right above the front door. After the third time they got the idea. Had it been Lubavitchers, the water WOULD have been boiling (we’re very Reform Jews). To this day that remians one of the things I most admire about my Mom.
RK
@SarahT: They probably thought your mom was Baptist.
Just saw “Z is for Zachariah.” Not a great movie by any means but a good watch.
Tehanu
How anyone can believe in and worship a God who condemns a baby to eternal suffering because other people didn’t get to it fast enough to baptize it before it died … I have no idea. Those poor, pathetic people, losing a child and then actually thinking this. The God I don’t exactly believe in — it’s more, that I hope exists — isn’t a psychopathic sadist.
SarahT
@wuzzat: HA !
SarahT
@RK:HA !
SarahT
@Tehanu: Yes, this ! Unless, of course, you are. American ambassador Gregory Peck, married to Lee Remick, and Billie Whitelaw is your nanny…
trollhattan
@efgoldman:
“Use a bagpipe
go to jail”
An actual bumper sticker.
BillinGlendaleCA
@trollhattan: Some not bad bagpipe.
RK
NYT: Party Rules to Streamline Race May Backfire for G.O.P.
Morzer
@RK:
I have been predicting this for a while. Too many grifters splitting the lunkhead bigot vote and suddenly the boss troll wins with 30%.
RK
@Morzer: And with Hillary being a terrible pol and disliked by many, including some Dems, say hello to President Trump. :) Sanders/Adzers 2016!
Morzer
@RK:
If Trump gets the GOP nomination, I suspect that Undead Generic Democrat could kick his ass handily, never mind HRC or the Bern. I think Hillary is going to be the nominee and she’ll be just fine.
Amir Khalid
@RK:
Ha. The enginer hoist by his own petard.
NotMax
To: S. Palin
From: humans with half a brain and up
TAFFOARD*
*Take A Flying F*ck On A Rolling Doughnut
FortGeek
Amazingly on-topic: Darth Vader. Kilt. Flaming bagpipes. Unicycle.
Ooops! Those weren’t flaming bagpipes! THESE are flaming bagpipes.
Morzer
@NotMax:
Apparently a stopped Palin isn’t even right once a day, never mind twice.
Amir Khalid
@NotMax:
Linky no work.
Morzer
@FortGeek:
You keep linking to a moderately effective ad by former Senator Mark Begich.
Botsplainer
@Chris:
Usually we’re not home when the JWs and other proselytizers come by to leave flyers. I’ve decided that the next time one of them comes, I can rudely say I’m disinterested in the stupid shit they’re pushing and to get the fuck off my porch before I turn on the hose.
On my campus, we had Brother Jed Smock and Sister Cindy – fuck those people. He’s still out there, too – they have a website, AND managed to spawn.
NotMax
@Amir Khalid
Linky fix.
Morzer
Speaking of preachers:
http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2015/09/climate-change-pope-paganism
Pie Happens (opiejeanne)
@Chris: I tell them I’m a Methodist and it doesn’t deter most of them, so set are they on getting me into their Special Club. People like that just wear me out.
Morzer
@Pie Happens (opiejeanne):
And then you say “Die,heretics!” and push them off the bridge?
PurpleGirl
@Morzer:
This Koprowski does know that we’re in 2015, right?
invoked pagan rituals and “nature worship” that he said were “seeping into the Church” during the Middle Ages
What year does he think this is? And yes, the Roman Catholic Church did borrow and use pagan worship and its holy days.
Keith G
@RK: Were that to seem on the verge of happening, many of the now 15 contestants would find inducements, lucrative inducements, to exit.
Aleta
@Adam L Silverman: good lord that’s beautiful
OzarkHillbilly
@PurpleGirl: Does he now say the Church should stop celebrating Xmas and Easter? “Cause I would be more than happy to not have to share my 2 favorite holidays with a bunch of martyrs in waiting.
henqiguai
@efgoldman (#29):
Scraw off! Bagpipes rock! Damned Rhode Islanders. And you people down there can’t drive, either!
Ain’t a masshole, jus’ live up here.
RK
@Keith G: Yeah, I remarked about that a while back in sizing up Trump’s chances. Sanders/Raspers 2016!
PurpleGirl
@OzarkHillbilly: I know. The stupood, it burns.
Morzer
@OzarkHillbilly:
This is Pope-Over-The-Water Koprowski:
https://www.heartland.org/gene-koprowski
The titles of his recent op-eds are … interesting.
OzarkHillbilly
@PurpleGirl: They’d have to give up half their saints too. I wonder if he realizes that.
WereBear
@Tehanu: That sums up my own thinking. If there is a God, s/he would have to be even kinder than what the best of humanity is capable of.
Which is a lot.
So, kinda, “doesn’t need a starship” and that works for me :)
Morzer
@OzarkHillbilly:
Take out the Plato, Aristotle and Plotinus from Catholicism and you’d have something remarkably like a lightly reformed version of Judaism. I wonder whether Koprowski would be content with that.
Pie Happens (opiejeanne)
@Morzer: I should.
I’ve had these spiteful people tell me I’m not a Real Christian. It pisses me right off.
I try not to engage with JWs, I just tell them “no, thanks” and they seem to respond correctly to it. Maybe I look a bit menacing when I say it.
My dear husband was in the garden, knew I was in the house, and spotted two Mormon lads toddling up my driveway; he did nothing to deter them, the rat. They were polite when I told them we weren’t interested, and then they asked if we needed any help around the place. I should have handed each of them a trowel and pointed them at a patch of weeds, but I can’t in good conscience take advantage like that. One of them was AfAm, and I REEEALLY wanted to get him away from the white boy and ask why on Earth he was a Mormon, if he didn’t know their historical beliefs about the religion. I find that really disturbing, but I also find it disturbing that middle class and poor people vote for Republicans.
Morzer
@WereBear:
“Gods should be better than mortals”
-Euripides
OzarkHillbilly
@Morzer: Oh Dawg…. Just looking at his face hurt. I couldn’t bear to read more than a couple sentences of his bio.
Baud
@PurpleGirl:
They should hire Ratzinger to establish a rival papacy in
AvingnonAmerica.Morzer
@OzarkHillbilly:
He’s an odd looking dude, for sure. Not the oddest or most alarming (that honor goes to Tom Kratman who is a five star kook with some deeply weird good Nazi fantasies).
Baud
@WereBear: @Morzer:
I just watched Exodus. It portrayed God as a bit of a dick.
Morzer
@OzarkHillbilly:
Koprowski wrote this on June 20:
I’d say things didn’t quite work out as he had planned.
Pie Happens (opiejeanne)
@OzarkHillbilly: I know it’s really shallow of me but his looks give me the creeps. I would not like to be alone with that man, nor would I trust him around children, or animals, large or small.
OzarkHillbilly
@WereBear:
If there is a God, fwck him/her with a rusty pitch fork. It is the Darth Cheney over lord of the universe and I hate the cruel, sadistic son/daughter of a bitch with a white hot hatred unimaginable by most human beings.
With all due apologies to all of the religious in today’s audience.
Morzer
@Baud:
God’s basically an incompetent CEO with chronic narcissism and a really nasty vengeful streak. One day it’s fruit baskets all round and you are my Chosen People, the next it’s abusive emails about failure to reach arbitrary targets and an invasion by the Assyrians.
Morzer
@Pie Happens (opiejeanne):
Yeah, nothing kooky or pervy about those two fine upstanding statesmen.
Baud
@Morzer:
“Thou shall promptly complete thine self-assessments by the end of the fiscal year to be eligible for bonuses. No exceptions.”
WereBear
@Morzer: Yes. Why should I admire a lesser being as a God?
For that matter, my cats exhibit more caring and consideration than a certain political party we discuss…
I take care of all oppressive proselytizers by sharing my philosophy of Responsible Hedonism. It’s based on loving the nature some divinity has blessed us with, and how we are meant to be happy.
“Isn’t that what God would want?” I ask them.
They generally go out in twos so they can’t be vulnerable to religious undermining, which I go about with gusto. Usually the older one grabs the younger one, who is nodding and agreeing with me.
Putting the thought in their head that God wants us to be happy… damn, that seems to be subversive.
They run away, I tell you. They run.
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud: Ratzinger has standards. They’d want Burke.
Morzer
@Baud:
“Nor shalt thou criticize the great and glorious merger with Compag, for I am the Lord thy God who brought thee into the land of HP, out of the slavery of Lucent…”
Baud
@WereBear:
I reading The Swerve about the rediscovery of a lost epicurean work, and one of the major themes is how early Christianity changed society so that people began to seek out pain instead of pleasure in their lives.
Morzer
A classic Slate letter to Prudence here:
http://www.slate.com/articles/life/dear_prudence/2015/09/dear_prudence_my_mother_s_support_for_donald_trump_is_jeopardizing_her_job.html
That’s so cold, Prudie, but so right!
Baud
@Morzer:
“Thou shalt watch nonexistent abortion videos.”
henqiguai
@RK (#70):
Interesting. That sounds awfully much like a film I saw too many years ago starring Sidney Poitier and where I was first introduced to the phrase “I’m free, white, and twenty-one!” Was trying to remember what the movie was because something came up that brought that whole period back to mind.
Morzer
@Baud:
Ah, the Book of Moving Images. One of my favorites in the Bible.
Pie Happens (opiejeanne)
@WereBear: You know, I think God does want us to be happy. All of the assholish stuff that’s blamed on God looks to me like it really belongs to we humans who have transformed God into a small, petty, vile small-g god that can be tucked into a pocket and carried around, and who amazingly hates all the people we hate.
I do not like the idea of a Personal Jesus.
I was forced to overhear a young woman driveling behind me in the stadium at the fairgrounds today, going on and on about how she and her mom had tried this church but there was too much drama, and they tried that other church but all they did was sing but no one did any preaching, and that the pastor’s daughters at one of these places had ended up cutting their hair short, like a boy, and now they were doing MODELING!, good thing she left when she did, and that she didn’t get along with other girls because they were all about the drama, and that sometimes she said things that made people look at her and say, “Did you really just say that?” and she couldn’t understand what she had done to offend them so that church was no good, and she and her mom would stay really late into the night just listening to the preaching, to the people preaching, when they had been in their first church. The people she was yammering at were from one of these churches.
I have a terrible memory, but I couldn’t even dredge up one pseudo quote to deal with this ego-centric run-on novelette, but I wanted to yell at her and ask her if she really thought this was what Jesus was worried about????
Luckily, when I was about to blow my stack, the draft horse teams came into the arena and she shut up.
Comrade Scrutinizer
@Baud: Paul Newman was good, though.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: So it’s biblically accurate. In other news, madam has informed me that we will be getting new phones this afternoon.
Baud
@Comrade Scrutinizer:
I haven’t seen that one. I was referring to last year’s Exodus: Gods and Kings with Christian Bale.
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA: Yay. Joyous day! Did you decide on the older Samsung or the new LG?
Morzer
@henqiguai:
Are you perhaps thinking of Harry Belafonte in “The World, The Flesh, And The Devil”?
WereBear
@Pie Happens (opiejeanne): When one is told their only emotional outlet is Church, and all interactions with their lives and other beings must come under its approval, one can get picky.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: We are both getting the Note Edge, madam decided she needs something bigger to satisfy her(she has a S4).
WereBear
@Morzer: That movie! Once seen, never makes sense, yet cannot be forgotten :)
Baud
@BillinGlendaleCA:
I hope for your sake that attitide doesn’t become a habit.
You’ll have to report back on the edge feature. It looks neat, but also gimmicky.
Pie Happens (opiejeanne)
@WereBear: Yes. I was really disgusted by the whole thing.
On the other hand, the draft horse competition was great fun, not too long, and the best part was the tiny wagon pulled by a team of 8 Shetland ponies! I saw them two years ago and the driver couldn’t control them, and it was hilarious; the wagon was going sideways half the time. It was like harnessing cats together to pull a wagon. Today they did what they were supposed to, and it was still hilarious but amazing. There were Percherons and Belgians and Clydesdales, and they all performed beautifully, but the ponies just stole the entire show.
Comrade Scrutinizer
@Baud: Ah. The one I’m talking about was a 1960 Otto Preminger production of a Leon Uris paean to the doughty Zionists overcoming the evil Brits and their running dog Arab lackies (they did have a few Uncle Tom Arabs, though) who were trying to prevent illegal aliens from landing in Palestine.
Or something.
Morzer
@WereBear:
I think it’s Inger Stevens playing Sarah who says “I am free, white, and twenty-one, and I’m gonna do what I please!”
OzarkHillbilly
Ta-Nehisi Coates: how his letter to his son about being black in America became a bestseller
Morzer
This really made me laugh:
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/sep/20/carly-fiorina-republican-rand-paul-wins-michigan-straw-poll
Check out the image of Baby Doc arriving. It sums him up so perfectly.
Comrade Scrutinizer
@Morzer: I don’t think that Belafonte’s character would have said it.
Morzer
@Comrade Scrutinizer:
See my post at #135
Comrade Scrutinizer
@Morzer: I saw it. I was referring to Harry being non-white. So he would not have said “free, white, and over 21” unless irony.
henqiguai
@Morzer (#128):
Yes, thank you! Been, off and on, driving me crazy. Was a kid when I saw the movie and back then I always mixed Belafonte and Poitier in my head (having never been into celebrities or hero worship, even as a kid; okay, there’s Einstein and Newton, but…)
Morzer
@Comrade Scrutinizer:
Yes. However, Inger Stevens was definitely white – and female, which is the point at that moment in the movie. Henqiguai asked about a movie involving Poitier, which was why I suggested that Belafonte might actually be the actor in question, though not the person uttering the line.
OzarkHillbilly
Peace Officer
Since the late 1970’s there has been a 15,000% increase in SWAT team raids in the United States.
Morzer
@henqiguai:
Glad to help. Apparently the phrase “I am free, white and twenty-one” was quite common and even a cliche of sorts at that time.
henqiguai
@BillinGlendaleCA (#130):
Looked at that just yesterday (*had* an older HTC One – M7; was bricked by the latest Lollipop upgrade, so said screw-it, used my upgrade to a Samsung Galaxy S6). Neither my wife nor I liked that weird wrap-around screen on the Edge.
RK
But anyone with just a cursory understanding of the Bible knows that God wants, first and foremost, obedience.
Morzer
@RK:
Love me, no other gods, no graven images and get your hands off the shellfish and bacon.
Obsessive-compulsive narcissism in full, luxuriant bloom.
Baud
@Morzer:
He lost me when he said I couldn’t covet my neighbor’s tech.
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud: “I can’t think of one commandment I ain’t shattered regular. I never did fancy my mother and father, let alone respect ’em or honor ’em. And I have coveted my neighbor’s wife – whenever I had a neighbor and he had a wife, mm, mmm!”
Morzer
@Baud:
Yeah,it’s a bummer. I was doing a pretty decent job of not coveting my neighbor’s ass, but that tech thing, woah man, that’s just tyranny right there.
RK
I read a few reviews of “Z is for Zachariah” after watching it and that movie came up several times.
Aleta
In the isolated little village I grew up in, someone had long ago mistranslated the 10 Commandments; but they were surprisingly workable. The ones I can remember:
Return Tools Unto Others As You Would Have Others Return Tools Unto You
and Thou Shalt Not Covet Thy Neighbor’s Restaurant Order
Morzer
Incidentally, the latest conservative step in The War On Terrorclocks is the claim that Ahmed just stuffed an old Radio Shack clock into the pencil case and so isn’t really any good at this stuff and so Obama *must* be a racist for inviting him rather than a white kid who was banged up for terrorism to the White House.
It’s almost impressive to see the rapid slide in Ahmed’s status from stealth jihadi and potential bombmaking genius to technologically derivative affirmative action beneficiary.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Morzer: RtR was talking about that yesterday.
Baud
@OzarkHillbilly:
Thou shall have no other Bauds before me.
Baud
@Morzer:
Hate always finds a way.
WereBear
@Pie Happens (opiejeanne): I was told by a horse trainer that the smaller the horse, the more intelligent and tricksy they become :)
Morzer
@BillinGlendaleCA:
I should have known. Those people really do deserve Trump as their latest grifter in chief.
Morzer
@Baud:
I really do think conservatism is just another addiction. All you have to do is supply the right dose and the patient will behave in a completely predictable manner.
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud: There is but only the One and True Baud.
Morzer
@Pie Happens (opiejeanne):
Did the Clydesdales have those wonderfully shaggy fetlocks?
I believe, by the way, that Napoleon mounted his heavy cavalry on Percherons.
Morzer
@OzarkHillbilly:
He is my Baud and Savior. And he made me Ambassador to Hentai, so he’s clearly a man of character and deep moral vision.
Mike J
@Morzer:
In case you ever wondered how stupid drugs will make you, here’s a pic of John Perry Barlow.
debbie
@Baud:
You have to admit they’ve got some kind of imagination.
Aleta
@Aleta:
As preschoolers, we first were taught Thou Shalt Not Spill. During elementary school we had to learn Thou Shalt Not Make Unto Thee Any Gravy Dams. By the end of high school, everyone was supposed to know Thou Shalt Not Deal.
Morzer
@Mike J:
Reminds me of the audience in Bob’s Country Bunker, where they have both kinds of music.
Baud
@debbie:
I call it a psychosis.
RK
If you can’t covet your neighbor’s ass or his wife I guess that rules out swinging.
OzarkHillbilly
@Morzer: From BusinessWeek, a fascinating look at how the brutal Obama “machine” beat an over-nice AIPAC on the Iran Deal, as told by Senate Republicans and AIPAC staffers. As disinterested observer Sen. Lindsey Graham puts it, “Aipac went to the Democrats and said, ‘We need your help as a friend.’ Obama said, ‘If you cross me you are going to make an enemy of my machine forever.'”
Once again Obama has transformed from a feckless 90# weakling scared of Putin’s shadow to an evil overlord summoning his Brownshirts to impose his will on the poor peaceful Jewish people of Israel.
Morzer
Also, does anyone have any idea what the crazies are referring to when they go on about some white kid who was (allegedly) arrested for writing a story about shooting a dinosaur? Did some prudent and patriotic teenager imagine whacking Bill O’Reilly?
WereBear
@Baud: Hey! I thought you were only running for President.
Morzer
@OzarkHillbilly:
I am endlessly impressed by Obama’s ability to be two mutually contradictory things at once. He’s a regular Schrodinger’s cat, that one.
Morzer
@WereBear:
Why wait? Cut out the middle stages and, if you are going to fail, fail hard! Baud to Olympus or bust!
debbie
@OzarkHillbilly:
Ah, “over-nice AIPAC”: a new oxymoron!
Chris
@Morzer:
Yeah, right wing Catholics’ reaction to Pope Francis is a never-ending see-saw between 1) shock and horror and proclamation that they don’t have to listen to the Vatican anyway and 2) reassurances that the Pope is just saying what he always was before and therefore there’s no need to change any behavior (subtext: we can go on ignoring Vatican teaching on this, that and the other thing like we always have before).
Morzer
@debbie:
A yuuge, classy, over-nice AIPAC….
raven
There is an article in the NYT about vets suicides and it focuses on 2/7 Marines. My friend that was killed in 1968 was in E 2/7 and I have done quite a bit of research on the unit. After years I made contact with a guy that ID’s his, and 6 other Marines that were killed that day, and the dude told me he hasn’t had a full nights sleep since. And they wonder what it’s all about.
OzarkHillbilly
@Chris: “I don’t give a bloody damn how a man prays! There’s enough room in hell for all of us!” -Mad Jack Duncan
raven
In Unit Stalked by Suicide,
Veterans Try to Save One Another
RK
@Morzer: Boy arrested for writing about shooting a dinosaur.
debbie
@raven:
And yet those who advocate for war never take this horrible and shameful consequence into consideration.
Morzer
@RK:
Given that he specified his neighbor’s dinosaur, I can see why there might have been some concern in that neck of the woods. Good thing he didn’t write about making it a “special” clock, I guess.
Schlemazel
@Chris:
These are,the same Catholics who insisted you couldn’t be one if you did not follow Benny the Rat’s orders as given.
Morzer
@raven:
Sleep is when the brain cleanses out its various accumulated toxins, so it would make sense that lack of sleep over time would have some very alarming effects.
Morzer
@Schlemazel:
I like your rat zinger.
Aleta
@Morzer: I looked at that article. The writer said he was just a guy who believed in drawing conclusions based only on the clear cold facts and not jumping to knee-jerk reactions like those believing A to be innocent.
He cited his own extensive experience with electronics, and said he could tell for certain that the circuit board and clock body were clearly made in the 70s. Because circuit boards only had those particular features due to 70s production methods. Then he found the same exact clock body on eBay and cited its Radio Shack catalogue number.
Then he drew some irrational conclusions about what a kid tinkering with electronics would and would not do.
Unfortunately, a commenter looked up the catalogue number and found the clock was mid-80s manufacture. So much for this fellow’s pseudo love of facts and rational analysis. There were more false conclusions and professions of objectivity and expertise. It was blatant as could be. Didn’t matter to the mob of other commenters who were off and running.
Morzer
@Aleta:
What got to me was that he never considered that Ahmed might have had to fix the clock, scavenge parts from several clocks or do anything constructive. I remember my own skills at Ahmed’s age and I managed to make a complete mess of several tech projects of similar complexity.
Schlemazel
@Morzer:
Well played!
People of a certain age recognize Simon Bar Sinster when they see him.
WereBear
@Schlemazel: Perhaps it is because they see Catholicism as necessarily cruel and punitive, so anything that isn’t can’t be Catholicism!
Aleta
@Morzer: I find it easy to assume that he tore the clock apart to look at it, and then rebuilt it with a couple of cool newer features like the 24 hour back- up battery and something else I forget. That’s so in- line with how electronics-obsessed kids teach themselves. (I didn’t make the effort to really look at it; I’m just jumping to my own best guess.).
gene108
I wonder, if the new Pope can excommunicate some of these right-wingers for disrespecting his authority?
Like the Republican Catholic Congresscritter who refuses to attend the Pope’s address to Congress, because he is sad the Pope will talk about global warming.
Maybe the Pope should issue a fatwa that any Catholic Congrsesscritter who does not attend will automatically become an ex-Catholic.
Schlemazel
@WereBear:
It has been mentioned by people here before that a large element of the right wing “morality” is based on punishing people who do things that they personally currently disapprove of.
So there is an overlap there. I am sure you are right.
Schlemazel
@gene108:
I think it would be far more devastating if he called the fool out by name and said he would pray that the fool might see the light before it is too late.
Mike J
@gene108:
Remember the fad among American bishops to refuse communion to Catholic politicians who weren’t vociferous enough in their pursuit of theocracy? Its a penalty they never apply to Republicans, no matter how much they disagree with the church.
MazeDancer
The NY Times article about the Marines and PTSD that Raven linked (at #179) was so deeply moving. Everyone ought to read it.
Wish there was something we could all do to help these good men who did so much for us.
How the VA was portrayed was disheartening to say the least. I thought they were actually helping people.
The military need to package “trauma cure” into one neat box can never work. While I know zero about being a combat veteran, I do have some deeper knowledge of other kinds of PTSD. And truth is both the reaction to any repeated trauma and the treatment to help relieve the constant pain of it is completely individual. One size does not fit all. Which does not fit “take a pill” or get 28 therapy session mentality of mainstream medicine and insurance companies.
Every brain is wired differently. Every person has different perceptions and resilience. There are no drugs that will “work”, every time to make horrendous experiences and the all too human reaction to their repeated infliction tolerable. But many of the prescribed drugs make people suffer even more.
Actual trauma recovery from repeated trauma – often different than recovery from a one-time trauma like a natural disaster or crime – is individualized focus only. The work is long, hard, and goes forward, backward, round and round while the brain tries to make new pathways.
Judith Herman, MD, pioneer in the field of mainstream medicine kind of trauma recovery, who led the huge fight to even get complex PTSD recognized as a legit diagnosis, is the first to say no one thing works for everyone. “Flooding”, a technique she helped develop, and mentioned in the article as a military prescription, can re-traumatize as many people as it helps. It is not an answer.
One of the best suggestions in the NY Times comments section was that all veterans returning from deployments are supported in a transition period. 6 months, a year. Where they are debriefed and helped to return to everyday life. Agreeing to go to war has to include aftermath support.
Also, suggested in the comments, was that return of the draft – with gender equality – might help with the armchair hawk idea that war is a good idea.
gene108
@Aleta:
Kid built the clock in 20 minutes before he went to bed. It says so in the news article that made its way around the world.
For all the detractors who say the clock was not a super advanced engineering project, well duh…it is not and was never portrayed to be.
The young man, who built it is portrayed as being interested in building things, which is different than assuming a clock he slapped together in 20 minutes from laying around his bedroom is this kids ceiling in tinkering, which the right-wingers seem to imply by their attempts to belittle his home made clock.
Aleta
@Aleta: But the writer of the article could only conclude that his actions were very fishy indeed — why in the world would he need to add a 24-hour battery back up the device were just an innocent clock, he explained. Hard to believe the writer had been what he claimed he was as a kid – someone just like A., also fascinated by electronics. It’s absurd except it’s actually ugly and false as all get out.
Schlemazel
@MazeDancer:
If Vietnam taught us anything (and that is doubtful) it is that wealthy and well connected kids get a pass on the draft so color me skeptical.
This issue with post service care needs to get more attention, particularly from those who pretend to be strong supporters of the military. People with those stupid ribbon magnets need to be at the forefront.
Also, we need to change attitudes in the armed forces. My boy had issues when he got back but had some “warrior mentality” bullshit drilled into him and avoided asking for help. When he did the VA was not helpful and it was easier for him to just let it go. He still has untreated issues.
Matt McIrvin
@Aleta: I recall this kind of behavior described as “anomaly hunting”.
When you’re anomaly hunting, you think there’s something fishy going on, so you look for anything that doesn’t fit what you imagine the standard story is, and tout anything you do find to the heavens as the thing that blows the conventional wisdom apart and exposes a conspiracy. Of course, you don’t subject your theory (if you even have a coherent one) to the same level of scrutiny.
Since the world is a messy and complicated place, you’ll probably be able to find something to go on.
It’s endemic in climate-change contrarianism, UFOlogy and “creation science”.
Cervantes
@gene108:
Well said, thanks.
Cervantes
@RK:
Completely insane.
Aleta
@MazeDancer: well said and explained. To those who are aware of or know some of the the vietnam vets living in the woods or in other isolations, it’s been agonizing to watch these kids go off to war, and see the congress insanely cut veteran’s health services even as they were leaving, and see some of the soldiers underprotected in the field while Cheney et al made their war profits according to plan, and watch the kids come home to underfunded hospitals with almost no mental health care available. As you said, trial and error drug prescription experiments being the bulk of what’s on offer. The VA system alone would traumatize many people who even had no prior trauma.
And the attitude still remains in some parts of the military that admitting to pain or even nightmares is defective. I’ve been watching my relative go through the ranks of the Marines and repeated deployments and reenlistment pressure. He went in having had prior depressions and other stuff; his recruiter told him to go off all his meds in order to get in, because the marines would prescribe whatever he needed later. His recruiter by the way had pursued him from high school on for 4 years or so, and he finally enlisted when he was at a low point feeling that it was his best option. And, he is proud of his accomplishments and education and all the learning he has done since he went in.
PurpleGirl
@RK: Remember it was humans who wrote those books, in different voices, at different times, for different purposes. And it is humans who interpret it, who explain its meaning. Humans are fantastic at projection and bullying.
bemused
@Pie Happens (opiejeanne):
The young woman didn’t have the slightest interest in trying to understand why people are sometimes so offended by her remarks that they call her on them. She’ll find cocoons where she doesn’t have to hurt her brain doing any thinking at all.
WereBear
There was an amazing approach to mental health care about 150 years ago that was simply: support.
They had a little room and food and could socialize if they wanted to and didn’t if they didn’t. They had green laws to walk on and trees to look at and other people to help. If they could. And help. If they needed it.
And they had amazing cure rates.
Imagine if we could do that for returning veterans, instead of throwing them from one high stakes survival game into a less dangerous, yet no less confusing world, and telling them to sink or swim.
I imagine it.
Mandalay
@raven: Thanks for posting that, even though it was brutal reading. Sadly it seems that serious problems exist on multiple levels:
– Many who need treatment don’t seek help.
– Many who receive treatment drop out.
– Even for those receiving treatment from the VA, its effectiveness is contentious.
So bleak on all fronts.
Also, via a reader comment on the NYT article , do you know anything about givenahour?
MazeDancer
@Schlemazel:
So true. The idea that war is “no problem” is at the forefront of the problem.
For your son, having a kind and understanding parent who thinks living up to some impossible standard of “warrior” is, in fact, total bullshit, will certainly go a very long way to helping him should his issues ever become overriding.
The IAVA org, with whom Rachel Maddow has a relationship and she promotes often, is doing its best to draw attention to the prevalence of combat PTSD. Trump’s promoting a phony veteran’s org might help, too. In that the issue at least gets discussed. Which is why Rachel had the IAVA leader on her show again, recently.
gelfling545
@Morzer:
Probably not but I’d bet Jesus would have been.
Matt McIrvin
@Schlemazel: Even if we eliminated the Vietnam- and earlier-era class-based reasons for deferment, there would still be the fundamental problem that they only draft young people. We imagine that parents would be motivated not to see their kids go off to war, but even that is only parents of kids in a certain age range. And the most enthusiastic voters are retirees, whose young relatives are a bit further removed.
Aleta
The programs that are training dogs and matching them with vets seem like a great thing to support. I think many are small and work with almost no budget, and there is, I hear, a long waiting time for a dog. More demand than can be filled.
PurpleGirl
@Schlemazel: A friend’s brother was in ‘Nam. He had a number of physical problems from wounds but he also sustained major mental issues. After a few years, he worked some things out with a peer help group and then became a peer counselor himself. He lived by and worked at a VA hospital in Massachusetts. He died years later from Hep C that he got probably in ‘Nam from a blood transfusion. My friend said that ‘Nam got him in the end. He never married because he felt he couldn’t inflict his problems on someone else. He and I had different opinions on many things but I liked talking with when visited his sister. I was sorry when he passed.
MazeDancer
@Aleta:
What an excellent idea! Going to look into that.
Many, many, many, many, many, many (and many more) people with PTSD – myself included – have not killed themselves because of thinking “who would look after my pets?”.
Pets are expensive. First Google search shows lots of orgs with “Pets for Vets”. Going to look for orgs with proven track record and continuing food and vet support.
Ruckus
@raven:
Have a friend who spent 30 yrs with PTSD and was finally rewarded with sleep and a better life. In the hospital in 73 most of the marines I was there with had that hollowed out look of a person who can not connect with life anymore. They had too much of their humanity rubbed raw and bloody to be able to see life in a positive light. Usually thinking about this 40 yrs later gives me the chills. I think what horrors I missed and wonder what sort of life those fellows must have had these last decades. But we don’t really have to wonder do we, the evidence is all around us of the destruction that continues long after the guns are quiet. War isn’t hell, war is war and of the two, I’ll take hell.
CONGRATULATIONS!
Bagpipes. Oh my, you have no idea how loud those fucking things are until you hear them in person.
Many years ago, back when I used to be able to sleep in late, I was awakened one morning by what I first thought was a jet engine in a test stand firing off next door. Deep sleep to totally awake in well under a second. I thought I was going to die. I screamed “what the fuck” at the top of my lungs, didn’t matter, couldn’t even hear myself.
It was a bagpiper. The people next door thought it would be fine to have one for their kids birthday party. I got dressed and left for the whole day.
Years later, one of the folks in my neighborhood used to take a walk on Sundays around the perimeter of the hood, playing his pipes. You could hear him from two blocks away.
Better than even a motorcycle gang for burying hate preachers in a wall of sound. And the pipes are tuned right at the frequency that the human ear is most sensitive – same pitch as babies crying. You can’t hear anything else when they play. My hat is tipped to this fine musician.
Ruckus
@MazeDancer:
As I understand it the VA did not really acknowledge PTSD for some time after Vietnam. My experience in the mid 70s with the VA was not, shall we say spectacular. However they have made great strides these last 6 yrs or so. I wonder why that is, mmmmmm, can’t make that connection, what could it possibly be? Let’s hope that they continue to understand and work towards being better.
Pie Happens (opiejeanne)
@Morzer: Yes! Shaggy fetlocks! (Those are in the ankle area, right? I don’t know a lot about horses.) Massive horses.
I think I read somewhere that Percherons were used by knights in armor. Beautiful, huge horses.
Pie Happens (opiejeanne)
@bemused: Exactly.
She and her mother already have a model for that, staying late into the night to hear the preaching instead of engaging other people and actually doing things.
Ruckus
@bemused:
If she has to think for herself she might just think wrong. Can’t have any of that, then she’d have to correct herself and she might just make a mistake doing that. And then you’re in a spiral of imperfection and fear. Better to give up all actual thinking to a book of fairy tales and thousands of years of others interpreting said fairy tales. Time of course has proven all of those fairy tales to be absolutely the truth, you know.
J R in WV
Many interesting comments.
I have to agree that anyone choosing to believe in a god that is vicious, murderous, and arbitrarily hateful is off their nut somehow.
We used to have a cold plunge pool and a hot tub, now gone due to expensive equipment failures. We invited several friends to come over at their convenience to use it, one in particular was paraplegic and the hot water soothed cramps she got.
We also got frequent visits from J W field missionaries trying to convert the local Baptists, mostly.
One day the J Ws showed up while 3 ample female friends were using the hot tub. K appeared with a towel wrapped around her wet, sweaty pinkness, and said hello. The J Ws started their message of fear, and K told them, we’re mostly pagans.
Between the wet pink nakedness and the pagan-hood, we got put on the J W list/map of “don’t go there” people. Thank you, K!!
I have some scots back there, Dad’s cousin spent a lot of time following family connections back into the past, to the old country. I’ve never really felt scots, though I don’t actively hate the pipes.
Regarding proper treatment of veterans: If the republicans aren’t willing to support vets post-warfare, they shouldn’t be wanting to start wars. It’s that simple to me. I served in the USN rather than be drafted into the grunt department of the DOD, and learn intimate things about SE Asia mud. I was injured while serving in both military incidents and off-base civilian accidents.
I was first treated in a civilian facility for the off-base accident, with follow-up at a USN Hospital. But I have never visited a VA facility. I don’t know if that’s a good thing. We have had a great family doc for the past 30+ years, and have had private (employer) insurance continually since I was discharged.
Now I’m nearly ready to apply for Social Security and Medicare. I am told that my retirement health-care insurance, which is currently $400+ a month, will become Medi-gap supplemental insurance once I go onto Medicare. I did not ask what the change in premium will be, if any.
Having had 2 joint replacement surgeries in the past calender year, without exceptional out-of-pocket costs, I feel good about my insurance.
But the state is undergoing a difficult transition from major coal producer as the coal reserves become less valuable and barely mineable even at a break-even point. Reclamation in the post-mining period is very expensive with no profitable income stream to off-set those costs.
At the same time, tax payments (income taxes on payroll, severance taxes of coal sales, business taxes of various kinds) from the coal sector is falling rapidly, while some gains in the natural gas sector partly off-set the slow and painful end of the 150-year-old coal industry.
Coal isn’t gone, but it is shrinking rapidly, and will never expand like it has in the past without truly cataclysmic world events – like WW III or something of that scale.
So I worry about both my heath insurance AND my pension. I do have a decent Social Security benefit I plan to take at 65, and some investments from a 457 account that the state allowed me to fund. That took a big hit in 2008, of course, and I couldn’t control those investments at that time, they were ING funds, and did OK for the kind of financial event we saw back then
Msg to self: Don’t lay awake thinking about things you can’t control, that may never occur.
Otherwise, gonna watch some football. Root against Ben Raperburgher,
hope no one gets a head injury.
Nutella
@Matt McIrvin:
Not surprising, since climate-change contrarianism, UFOlogy and “creation science”, and Islamophobic bigotry are all firmly believed by the same people.