No, He Didn’t

No, Jeb Bush, Your Brother Did Not Keep Us Safe

No, Jeb Bush, Your Brother Did Not Keep Us Safe

No, Jeb Bush, Your Brother Did Not Keep Us Safe

No, Jeb Bush, Your Brother Did Not Keep Us Safe

No, Jeb Bush, Your Brother Did Not Keep Us Safe

No, Jeb Bush, Your Brother Did Not Keep Us Safe

Times infinity.






206 replies
  1. 1
    A guy says:

    Clinton let bin laden go

  2. 2
  3. 3
    rikyrah says:

    NOT only did he not keep us safe, he used 9/11 to LIE until into TWO unnecessary wars.

  4. 4

    Other Republican lies that go unchallenged.

    1. They are the party of fiscal restraint
    2. They are foreign policy pragmatists.

  5. 5
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @A guy: You’re a fucking moron.

  6. 6
    Librarian says:

    I assume Tapper did not call him on it in any way, shape or form. If so, he has shown again, as if any more proof is needed, that he is an utter total fucking useless tool. Tapper is worse in many ways than the people on that stage.

  7. 7
    JPL says:

    Anthrax for lunch anyone?

    Jake could care less about the truth. He’s just interested in his paycheck.

  8. 8
    Chris says:

    @schrodinger’s cat:
    @Librarian:

    “Whether any terrorist attacks took place in the Bush presidency: views differ.”

  9. 9

    The Iraq blunder did start a chain reaction but not the one the Bushies used to sell the invasion.

    ETA: It can be argued that Bush’s War of Choice has made the world less safe.

  10. 10
    SteveinSC says:

    Shorter Jeb!: Hit the ball and drag the rotting carcass of your brother and your brother’s stinking reputation.

  11. 11
    Elizabelle says:

    I am not going to comment on the concluding That’s So Reagan question, although I think the whole event would have been livened up had that airplane started to taxi out of the hall.

    I love Charles Pierce.

    I am starting to wonder if that debate did a LOT of damage to the GOP brand. No adults in the room, the moderators sure were not, and the whole thing took place in a fantasyland which does not exist.

    Epistemic closure, right there to see. CNN and other networks are pandering it up, because ratings! — but that thing was a shitshow.

  12. 12

    With notably rare exceptions, Bush II kept us safe from terrorists.

  13. 13

    They don’t exactly make the world safe, but they make it worth living. Thursday Moment of Zen, a Syrian man with his kitten makes it to Greece!

  14. 14
    Schlemazel says:

    @Roger Moore:
    And none of those couple of dozen events were in anyway Boy Blunders responsibility.

  15. 15
    Betty Cracker says:

    In a way, I’m glad Jeb got applause for telling that blatant lie and that the assembled fools failed to call him out on it. One of the things that destroyed Romney’s presidential hopes was that he bought into the bullshit that passes for truth in wingnut bizarro-world and then was caught flat-footed when called out on it in a bipartisan/nonpartisan setting. Please proceed, Republicans.

  16. 16
    Patrick says:

    CNN sank to a new low today. They had an article fact checking the debate and they didn’t even fricking include Jeb Bush’s outrageous lie.

  17. 17
    Schlemazel says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: They don’t exactly make the world safe, but they make it worth livingleaving.

    I fix-xed it 4 u.

  18. 18
    Benw says:

    @Roger Moore: likewise from natural disasters.

  19. 19
    Cervantes says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    That is some excellent lemonade you’ve made there!

  20. 20
    Chris says:

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    Well, completely destroying Iraqi society and replacing it with nothing but scar tissue is why we have ISIS today, so there’s that.

  21. 21
    Cervantes says:

    @Roger Moore:

    Mr. Mitchell strikes again!

  22. 22
    Kay says:

    Yuck. The whole “keep us safe!” thing brings back such bad memories. It doesn’t remind me of September 11th, either, it reminds me of all the fear-mongering the George W Bush campaign did in the 2004 election. It was disgusting. I remember at one point they did Sunday newspaper inserts that were intended to terrify people so they would all rally and drag the dope over the finish line so he could continue to destroy the economy.

    I bet they all felt real safe when they lost their houses 4 years later.

  23. 23
    boatboy_srq says:

    @Betty Cracker: There’s probably a lot of footage from both debates that will be useful attack ad material Dems will be castigated for taking advantage of.

  24. 24
    SenyorDave says:

    @Patrick: CNN sank to a new low today. They had an article fact checking the debate and they didn’t even fricking include Jeb Bush’s outrageous lie.

    Maybe they just look at 9/11 and say to themselves that it was just one day in his presidency. That means that 0.034% of the time under GWB’s leadership we have a major terrorist attack. Perhaps by CNN’s standards that is “keeping us safe”. CNN is as useless as they get.

  25. 25
    redshirt says:

    Bush kept me safe, I guess. No terrorist attacked me during his Presidency. Also, no tigers.

  26. 26
    Archon says:

    @Roger Moore:

    With the notable exception of the metastasizing tumor in your brain you’re in perfect health.

  27. 27
    boatboy_srq says:

    @redshirt: And no aliens, no zombies, no Nazgul, no dinosaurs….

  28. 28
    SenyorDave says:

    @Kay: Since Bush’s approval rating is now close to Obama’s last time I saw a poll, apparently some people really do have a short memory.

  29. 29
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    We mustn’t politicize 9/11. We simply mustn’t. It would make Grampy Broder cry in heaven, and Monsignor Russet frown beside him on their cloud.

    Banghazi? Hell, let’s have another investigation. What does Carly think?

  30. 30
    boatboy_srq says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Monsignor Russet

    What’s “taters,” precious?

  31. 31

    @Schlemazel: You mean Bushies, right, not kittehs.

  32. 32
    joel hanes says:

    Q: It’s not safe out here. It’s wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it’s not for the timid.

  33. 33
    Chris says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    We mustn’t politicize 9/11.

    “Now let’s talk about how 9/11 proves that George W. Bush kept us safe.”

  34. 34
    NotMax says:

    One good thing, and one only, occurred during the Bush/Cheney miasma.

    The Do Not Call list.

    Everything else was shite.

  35. 35
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @boatboy_srq: that’s an autocorrect that somehow seems more appropriate than the correct spelling

  36. 36
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @redshirt:

    Also, no tigers.

    I have a rock that keeps tigers away.

  37. 37
    redshirt says:

    @NotMax: Bush threw a great first pitch in that first post 9/11 game. Most nervous moment of his Presidency apparently, and he nailed it. What a leader!

  38. 38
    dedc79 says:

    I think of last night’s debate as a parole board hearing about whether we can safely welcome the GOP back into civilized society. They were asked whether they now acknowledge that they messed up and deserved to be punished. Collectively (Rand Paul and Trump excepted), they answered “no.” They were asked whether, if released, they would do the same damage they’d been locked up for. Collectively (this time only with Rand in dissent), they answered “no.” I hope the parole board sends them back for another 8 years to think things over some more.

  39. 39
    Mandalay says:

    asked through a spokesman if Bush was right to say his brother “kept us safe,” Paul, who is campaigning in Nevada today, declined to comment.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....t-us-safe/

    I just don’t get these GOP candidates. They are constantly presented with golden opportunities to assail the stupidity and mendacity of their rivals and they wimp out.

    If I had donated to Paul’s campaign I’d be demanding a refund for that display of cowardice – declining to comment is even worse than agreeing with Jeb! At least have the balls to take a damn position on the issue.

    All of the GOP candidates are unfit to be president, but apart from Trump and Cruz I don’t think any of them even want the job.

  40. 40
    Anoniminous says:

    @Elizabelle:

    Probably not. These things – I refuse to use the word “debate” – are watched by True Believers and Political Wonks whose views are already set.

  41. 41
    Peale says:

    I guess that’s a good question for Hillary. Knowing what you know now, would you risk a diplomatic nightmare by killing a representative from a despotic regime who is nominally an ally to keep the next bin Laden alive. Kind of ties her to a decision made by her husband’s administration that she she wasn’t involved in making. Just like asking Jeb if he’d go further than his brother and hold the Gulf States responsible for promoting murderers as a foreign policy tool.

  42. 42
    boatboy_srq says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: … and now I’m waiting for the newsreader version of Mr. Potato Head…

  43. 43
    dedc79 says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I have a rock that keeps tigers away.

    Omnes, I want to buy your rock.

  44. 44
    Schlemazel says:

    @schrodinger’s cat:
    Yeah, my mistake, I read that to mean Bushie

  45. 45
    Kay says:

    @SenyorDave:

    Oh, they were really flying high in 2004. Iraq was a huge “success”, the debt-based economy hadn’t started to tank, they were so smug with the tactic of putting same anti-sex marriage amendments on ballots- they were freaking unbearable.

  46. 46
    NotMax says:

    RtR’s paid strutting and crowing seems glaringly absent.

  47. 47
    Schlemazel says:

    @dedc79:
    I am so stealing that – thank you!

  48. 48
    jl says:

    The approving roar from the crowd of crazies that made up the audience was disturbing, but I guess should be expected by now.

    But, let them march along in their bubble, I think either HRC or Sanders would make good replies.In front of that audience, they would just get downed out by hoots and boos, but they will be addressing a different audience next summer and fall.

    Besides the specific instances of GW’s incompetence and negligence, there is the whole strategic posture of his administration in the first year, pushed by Grant Regent Cheney that completely missed the boat on stateless terrorism. They were all in on ginning up more great power rivalries. I remember the neocon gang (always wrong, as usual) ginning up BS war scares with China was all the rage for awhile. They longed for that Cold War national security frisson to keep the rubes in line. I guess that points to judgment and vision as an issue. The discussion of which needs to be grounded in what by now should be known knowns, and known unknowns at the time. Which means it wold be pointless to try to discuss it in front of GOP primary voters.

  49. 49
    joel hanes says:

    @boatboy_srq:

    What’s “taters,” precious?

    Rare ballast for an empty stomach, and the Gaffer’s particular favorite.

  50. 50
    Patrick says:

    @Mandalay:

    Not only the candidates; the media figures on CNN for example are getting paid handsomely for the “jobs” they do. What a waste of money when they fail such an easy test that pretty much every American could attest to that Bush did NOT keep us safe.

  51. 51
    Amir Khalid says:

    @NotMax:
    Jeb’s second poor debate performance in a row will take a lot of spinning, and Jeb! HQ is still working on the talking points.

  52. 52
    dedc79 says:

    @Schlemazel: when you do, please fix the second “no”, which should be a “yes.” I realized too late to edit.

  53. 53
    Kay says:

    @Mandalay:

    I just don’t get these GOP candidates. They are constantly presented with golden opportunities to assail the stupidity and mendacity of their rivals and they wimp out.

    The GOP primary electorate are the people who thought Bush did a good job by the end- they are the 27%. There’s no political benefit to attacking George W Bush. Paul would be telling the voters he needs that they are dopes who made a mistake.

  54. 54
    Schlemazel says:

    @NotMax:
    He is probably waiting for his last check to clear before he starts billing them again.

  55. 55
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @dedc79: Find your own rock, dammit. This one’s mine.

  56. 56
    Schlemazel says:

    @dedc79:
    With pleasure. I knew what you meant

  57. 57
    Germy Shoemangler says:

    If the elite political press is going to treat fiction as fact as long as the fiction is delivered in a compelling, dramatic manner, then the country truly is lost. If Carly Fiorina is adjudged to be the winner of a debate simply because of how “crisply” she delivered lies about Planned Parenthood, or how “forcefully” she responded to a cartoon like Donald Trump, or how “sharply” she presented her nonsense about reining in Vladimir Putin with “aggressive military maneuvers” on his borders, then there is a problem in the political process that is metastasizing by the hour. Ronald Reagan was the index patient for that problem. They truly are his children now.

    Charles Pierce should have been moderating the debate. It would have been worth watching.

  58. 58
    Chris says:

    @Kay:

    they were so smug with the tactic of putting same anti-sex marriage amendments on ballots

    Why I have so little patience for present day concern trolling, mostly from the same people, that gay rights advocates should be magnanimous in victory and think of the hurt feelings of the poor, poor, poor bigots.

    (When gay rights advocates start putting amendments on ballots calling for the outlawing of heterosexual marriage, then I’ll concede that they’ve gone too far. Until then, fuck off, bigots).

  59. 59
    trollhattan says:

    @redshirt:
    Between 2000 and 2008 I acknowledge a complete lack of pirate attacks on my home and vehicle, whilst away from home. Thanks, George!

  60. 60
    Schlemazel says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    This is my rock. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

    My rock is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life.

    My rock, without me, is useless. Without my rock, I am useless.

  61. 61
    Elizabelle says:

    NYTimes: MSNBC Changes Lineup to Sharpen Hard News Focus

    MSNBC’s shift to more hard [right??] news coverage during the day is starting to come into focus in advance of Brian Williams’s return to the air on the cable news network next week.

    NBC News announced on Thursday that Kate Snow, an NBC News national correspondent, will anchor news coverage at MSNBC from 3 to 5 p.m. during the week and anchor the Sunday edition of “NBC Nightly News.”

    Chuck Todd, moderator of NBC’s “Meet the Press,” will host a new daily show at 5 p.m. called “MTP Daily” starting Sept. 28, which executives hope will become the “cable news show of record” for the 2016 campaign.

    …. MSNBC, which has experienced stark ratings declines, has shaken up its daytime lineup significantly in the last several months in an attempt to shift from its left-leaning opinion-based coverage to more hard news.

    “That is what MSNBC was created for: It was created to put NBC News in the 24/7 news business,” Andrew Lack, chairman of NBC News, said in an interview.

    Some thoughts: Chuckles gets a daily show. Could that be a way to gently squeeze him out of the Sunday MTP?

    I am concerned about Chuckles becoming the arbiter of “accurate” on 2016 political news. He is a doofus.

    And they expanded Morning Joke. Another hour not to watch MSNBC (except to check in on what they’re not covering).

    Mixed feelings. I like Lester Holt’s nightly news the best of the 3 legacy networks; ABC and David Muir are practically leading with Keyboard Cat, or whatever’s hot on social media (and you know they would like to).

    Although NBC is kinda news for defense contractors. (CBS is news for wannabe mercenaries. Lara Logan!)

  62. 62
    Germy Shoemangler says:

    @NotMax: Someone pays him to comment here?

    Can I get a piece of that action? Cat food is getting expensive. Here I go: “Ahem. Jeb? did GREAT last night. After the others fall by the wayside he’ll be standing tall. Mark my words.”

    Thank you and I hope I passed the audition.

  63. 63
    NotMax says:

    @Omnes Omnibus

    Hudson & Landry, Kearsarge (2:00 – 3:25, particularly).

  64. 64
    goblue72 says:

    @SenyorDave: The average American can’t remember what they had for lunch yesterday. How can they be expected to remember what happened 8 years ago?

  65. 65
    Redshift says:

    @Mandalay:

    I just don’t get these GOP candidates. They are constantly presented with golden opportunities to assail the stupidity and mendacity of their rivals and they wimp out.

    I don’t think it’s wimping out on challenging a rival, it’s wimping out on challenging what their base fervently believes (because it has been drilled into them by Fox.)

    Trump had shown that it’s possible to gain support by going against “conservative” orthodoxy on taxes, but it’s still risky. Still, if you’re a no-hope candidate like Rand, your only chance is to try something risky.

    Which probably means he’s already given up and is just burnishing his brand for the grift. Challenging orthodoxy isn’t going to help on that front.

  66. 66
    redshirt says:

    @Elizabelle: I would rather listen to a hundred hours of Deflategate nonsense then listen to one minute of Morning Joe.

    I don’t know why you masochists do it to yourselves. Unless that’s your thing, then more power to you!

  67. 67
    trollhattan says:

    And since we’re discussing last night’s lies, LGM has a post on Fiorina’s whopper re. the Planned Parenthood video, a statement I heard lauded several times as a “memorable moment” by “experts” on my radio machine, this morning. Since Carly calls Hillary a liar every chance she gets, I hope SOMEBODY opens a can of woopass on her over this.

    Anybody? Crickets?

  68. 68
    Germy Shoemangler says:

    @Elizabelle:

    ABC and David Muir are practically showing us Keyboard Cat (and you know they would like to).

    We watch Muir every night because it’s the same channel as jeopardy, and it’s true… 5% actual news, 95% youtube stuff (amazing! heartwarming! incredible!) announced breathlessly before commercial break to keep us hanging on in suspense.

  69. 69
    Brachiator says:

    From a May 2015 news story:

    Ted Cruz and Rand Paul have never served in the military. Neither have Marco Rubio, Jeb Bush, Scott Walker, Chris Christie, Mike Huckabee, Rick Santorum or Bobby Jindal. And those are just the Republicans gearing up for a presidential campaign.

    The same goes for the Democrats likely to seek their party’s nomination for president: Hillary Clinton, Martin O’Malley and Bernie Sanders aren’t veterans either.

    But there are a few potential candidates that have: Republicans Rick Perry and Lindsey Graham and Democrat Jim Webb.

    Now, to be fair, military experience is not essential. And I did not watch the entire debate. But not only was I revolted by the “Bush kept us safe” nonsense, I also tired of the “America needs the dick-biggest military ever” and the idiotic posturing of a couple of the GOP goobers that a few American “boots on the ground” would rout the wrong-deity Mooslims.

    Boots on the ground. Not people. Not human beings who would be risking their lives so that some Republican knob could entertain fantasies of military prowess.

    Boots.

    http://dailycaller.com/2015/05.....z3m1XTww4W

  70. 70
    Elizabelle says:

    @Germy Shoemangler: True. ABC’s highest calling might be to glue viewers to the set for Pat Sajak, Vanna and Alex. The affiliates are happy.

  71. 71
    trollhattan says:

    @Elizabelle:
    Ugh. The more camera time Chuck Todd gets the dumber the nation becomes–it’s almost a 100% correlation.

  72. 72
  73. 73
    Redshift says:

    @Kay:

    it reminds me of all the fear-mongering the George W Bush campaign did in the 2004 election. It was disgusting.

    Sure was. The most apt summary of Shrub’s case for reelection was “we shouldn’t change horsemen in mid-apocalypse.”

  74. 74
    kdaug says:

    Thinking the same thing last night.

    More disturbing – do they believe this delusion?

    9/11, Katrina, Iraq, Afganistan, financial meltdown – all happened on someone else’s watch? Clinton? Reagan? Fucking Coolidge?

    Is this a manifestation of rich boys who’ve never had to own the consequences of their behaviors? That they simply can’t see? Do they *truely* not understand?

    Suppose it’s not the weirdest pathological neurosis I’ve heard of, but it’s a new one to me.

  75. 75
    Anoniminous says:

    @Germy Shoemangler:

    TV news shows are to information as sitcoms are to real life. Any overlap is purely coincidental.

  76. 76
    Germy Shoemangler says:

    @Elizabelle: The weird thing is, he’s background noise in our house. Mrs. Shoemangler looks up from her sewing now and then if he says something bizarre, but mostly ignores him. I am usually reading to the cat or fussing with balloon-juice. When Jeopardy comes on we both focus on the TV. I suppose we could wait until Alex before turning on the TV, but it’s become a ritual.

  77. 77
    Elizabelle says:

    @Germy Shoemangler: Sounds like a nice evening ritual.

    What are the cat’s reading preferences?

  78. 78
    Stacy says:

    “He kept us safe” has to be the ultimate IOKIYAR.

  79. 79
    Germy Shoemangler says:

    @Anoniminous: It’s amazing to me, every time I read about any particular story in detail, when I see it covered by David Muir (or the rest of them) they tell less than half the story, leave out essential details (like WHY the news item happened) and repeat lies from shills.

  80. 80
    Germy Shoemangler says:

    @Elizabelle: She will listen intently to anything about ancient Egypt. Not sure why.

  81. 81
    Elizabelle says:

    @Redshift:

    The most apt summary of Shrub’s case for reelection was “we shouldn’t change horsemen in mid-apocalypse.”

    Brilliant! Bingo.

    And last night’s Republicans think we are living in an apocalypse right now. It’s the black guy’s fault.

  82. 82
    goblue72 says:

    @trollhattan: SHHHHHH!!!!!!! We want iCarly to win. We should be rooting for iCarly every step of the way. I watched iCarly go up against Babs Boxer – Babs is only a so-so campaigner, and she was pretty much asleep at the switch for most of that race, there was only a single debate, and Babs still dragged iCarly around the schoolyard by her hair for a solid 10 point beatdown. Bern or Hilz would wipe the floor with her. Heck, the Tweets from Hillary blog would wipe the floor with her.

    And as the Internet is forever, there’s still that video out there of iCarly playing Mean Girl and dissing Babs hair. Exactly the kind of thing easily thrown back in her face in connection with Fiorina dissing Trump for his statements about her looks.

    Go Carly Go!

  83. 83
    Mandalay says:

    @Kay:

    There’s no political benefit to attacking George W Bush. Paul would be telling the voters he needs that they are dopes who made a mistake.

    That may be true for other candidates, but Paul is already very firmly on the record as having said invading Iraq was a colossal blunder. It’s something that distinguishes him from most of his rivals, and is not a secret.

    Here’s what he said just four months ago:

    “I think there’s a consistent theme here that every candidate should be asked, and that is is it a good idea to go into the Middle East,” Paul continued. “I think, even at the time invading Iraq was a mistake and I thought the war, even at the time, was a mistake given the intelligence.

    Pretty clear and unambiguous, right? And now he doesn’t even want to comment on the very issue that he says every candidate should be asked?

  84. 84
    Kay says:

    Nervous vendors to @ScottWalker presidential campaign tell AP they are waiting to be paid more than $100,000

    Yay! Now he has to deal with the “death throes” stories for months and months :)

    I can’t believe they don’t get paid up front, BTW. “Sure! He’s good for it!”

  85. 85
    jl says:

    @Brachiator:

    Josh Marshall has a post on the one of the main non-Trump non-horse-race stories of the debates last night: the emergence of the GOP as the War Party, with a focus on Rubio and Fiorina. He has nice analysis of how Fiorina’s detailed list of ships and troop build-ups were just lines fed to her that have little bearing on the national security problems under discussion. Unless of course, Fiorina proposes a land invasion of Iran in her second term to make it a US vassal.

    Marshall also notes that it was neocon boilerplate that even GW had the sense to jettison during his second term. The real national security heroes they were cheering last night were Cheney and the neocons.

    The War Party
    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/the-war-party

    One thing I don’t see much about, that was a topic here last night, was how horrible the debate moderation was. If there are any bigger empty suits and cowardly shiftless griffters than the clownish contestants on the stage last night, it was the panel of moderators, with Tapper leading the parade of shame. Hard to believe I would ever think Hewitt better than Tapper, but here we are.

  86. 86
    Cervantes says:

    @Germy Shoemangler:

    [The cat] will listen intently to anything about ancient Egypt.

    Pretty clear why, if you ask me.

  87. 87
    Elizabelle says:

    @Germy Shoemangler: The day after the Sunday NYTimes Amazon expose (85 hour workweeks at corporate HQ; not just hell in the warehouses):

    Muir had some woman sit across the desk from him and announce that Jeff Bezos is looking into it. [I don’t know if they ever returned to the story that week. I didn’t see it.]

    Well, all righty then.

    It was facepalm territory. That has to have been deliberate misreporting, because if ABC had been on the internet (in between collecting cat and cute kid videos, whatnot), they would have seen tech types confirming Amazon’s culture. The New York Times stands behind its reporting. Amazonworld never really refuted the charges.

  88. 88
    NotMax says:

    @Mandalay

    The Incredible Shrinking Principle.

  89. 89
    Thoughtful Today says:

    !!!

    God Bless “Charles P. Pierce, times infinity.

  90. 90
    Elizabelle says:

    @goblue72: Agreed, re iCarly.

    Enjoyed your comments on yesterday’s California senate race thread.

  91. 91
    Redshift says:

    @trollhattan: WaPo’s Glenn Kessler actually did in their debate live blog, much to my surprise. Of course, he just noted that the video contains no such scene, but went on to mention that it includes footage of a supposed employee of the tissue sample company describing such a scene, without noting that there’s no way to verify it happened, and it’s so cartoonishly horrific that any fair-minded person would conclude that it’s made up.

  92. 92
    Kay says:

    @Mandalay:

    Good point. I don’t know why he’s backing down now. I don’t follow him because he wants to get rid of the current interpretation of the Commerce Clause and since a lot of liberal legislation is based on the Commerce Clause (environmental, civil rights, labor, consumer protections, and on and on) I consider him unacceptable so never got as far as foreign policy views. I listened to his views in a debate for his senate race and that was enough for me.

  93. 93
    trollhattan says:

    @Kay:
    Maybe they can take their payment in the form of Brawny Towels shipped directly from the Kochs.

  94. 94
    Patrick says:

    @jl:

    One thing I don’t see much about, that was a topic here last night, was how horrible the debate moderation was. If there are any bigger empty suits and cowardly shiftless griffters than the clownish contestants on the stage last night, it was the panel of moderators, with Tapper leading the parade of shame. Hard to believe I would ever think Hewitt better than Tapper, but here we are.

    It pretty much reminded me of the debate in 2008 on ABC when George S and his co-host kept asking the most irrelevant questions that most people could care less about. Here, irregardless of the most idiotic lies (such as Jeb’s “he kept us safe” lie), the moderators said nothing. Why then waste money on moderators that won’t speak up? Why not then pay somebody minimum wage who could do the same thing at least as good?

    Also, I can’t believe Hewitt was allowed to ask questions. Does that mean that CNN will invite Michael Moore, Keith Olbermann or other partisan people from the left to ask questions during the Democratic debate when it finally will take place?

  95. 95
    Germy Shoemangler says:

    @trollhattan: Weird how GOP candidates always boast that THEY are the party of fiscal responsibility, and then stories about Walker and Rubio (and Christie’s governing) sort of demonstrate… the opposite.

  96. 96
    redshirt says:

    @Germy Shoemangler: Doublethink is doubleplusgood!

  97. 97
    Germy Shoemangler says:

    @Patrick:

    Does that mean that CNN will invite Michael Moore, Keith Olbermann or other partisan people from the left to ask questions during the Democratic debate when it finally will take place?

    or non-persons like Bill Moyers or Phil Donahue?

  98. 98
    goblue72 says:

    @Patrick: Now why would the oligarchs who own the mass media let Michael Moore on TV?

  99. 99
    Mandalay says:

    @Brachiator:

    I also tired of the “America needs the dick-biggest military ever”

    Given the success of non-politicians in the GOP campaign, it’s not wildly improbable that Petraeus would be our next president if only he had kept his cock in his pants.

    But he didn’t, and President Hillary Clinton should honor this woman for her service to our country.

  100. 100
    NotMax says:

    @Patrick

    Of course not. Their institutional definition of a raging leftie is David Brooks.

  101. 101
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @Patrick: the media haven’t considered that a lie for 14 years. Why start now?

  102. 102
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Kay: Any vendor who does not demand cash payment up front in that market is a fucking idiot. I remember a story from a long time ago about a helicopter pilot in NH with some candidate on board, rushing to some place, who said “I take off when I get paid.”

  103. 103
    Bobby Thomson says:

    OT: the Eighth a Circuit just came out with a clusterfuck of a ruling. Apparently signing a piece of paper really burdens papist employers.

  104. 104
    jl says:

    @Patrick:

    ” Does that mean that CNN will invite Michael Moore, Keith Olbermann or other partisan people from the left to ask questions during the Democratic debate when it finally will take place? ”

    No. Probably Hewitt again.

    The failure of the moderators was complete. There was no structure at all to the questions or even general topic. No advice given on what the general topics was for sections of the debate. I didn’t hear any ground rules for contestant behavior (I am adopting Trump’s term ‘contestant’ for the candidates because I think it is the most accurate term). The moderators completely lost control and passively let the contestants act and talk as they pleased, never challenged those mooks on anything.

    And it was probably a conscious decision. I read that Tapper announced that CNN had abandoned any attempt at even the most basic fact checking, so the contestants starting telling the most outrageous lies.

    They probably spent all their time looking for smack X said about Y, that they could use to bait Z in hopes of starting a food fight.

    Really pathetic malfeasance. A middle school teacher who ran a practice debate like that in class would be permanently yanked off the assignment.

    Edit: As I said last night, the only good news is that if the media running these debates wants to allow the contestants to act like toddlers in mid tantrum, as a Democrat, I think that is excellent preparation for the GOP for the general election.

  105. 105
  106. 106
    Betty Cracker says:

    FFS, Jeb is not letting this “He kept us safe thing” go. He tweeted a picture of Shrub standing with firefighters (in some naturally occurring rubble of some sort) with the quote.

  107. 107
    A guy says:

    Had Clinton paid more attention to bin laden than an intern perhaps 9/11 could have been prevented. As it stands, Hillary’s husband is nothing more than a philandering jerk who cost Americans lives. And that Hilary puts up with him speaks volumes to her character.

  108. 108
    NonyNony says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    He tweeted a picture of Shrub standing with firefighters (in some naturally occurring rubble of some sort) with the quote.

    He knows that nobody has the balls to call him on it. When Trump didn’t pounce last night, he knew he was good.

    Honestly I’d love it if a bunch of millionaires who hated GWB would start a PAC that doesn’t really have any candidate that they’re supporting, just to buy up ad time to run commercials about how GWB did not actually keep us safe. There’s a whole lot of footage they could use too.

  109. 109
    jl says:

    @Betty Cracker: He is his ‘own man’, so of course he will hide behind his brother GW to milk sympathy out of the most catastrophic failure of his brother’s administration.

    After he told the nation that ‘of course’ he was going with this family’s legacy foreign policy advisers.

    Stand tall, Jeb?, profile in courage:

    Jeb Bush Explains Why He Stood On Tiptoes For GOP Group Photo
    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/l.....bate-photo

  110. 110
    NotMax says:

    @jl

    No surprise though, as CNN had been running promos for at least a month beforehand treating the upcoming “debate” as if it was [insert your favorite overhyped boxing match here].

    Happened to see one on a big video billboard in Times Square while waiting in line for theater tickets which made me want to hurl something large and very heavy at the screen.

  111. 111
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @A guy: I already explained this to you once.

  112. 112
    Patrick says:

    @jl:

    And it was probably a conscious decision. I read that Tapper announced that CNN had abandoned any attempt at even the most basic fact checking, so the contestants starting telling the most outrageous lies.

    But if it was completely fact less, then then it should not have been handled by the CNN news team. Rather, their entertainment division (if they have one) should have been directing it.

  113. 113

    @Mandalay: Knowing what we know now, the title of that book sounds almost pornographic.

  114. 114
    Jeffro says:

    @kdaug: Every right-winger I know seems to think George W Bush was sworn in for his first term on September 12, 2001.

  115. 115
    goblue72 says:

    @Betty Cracker: Bwahahahahaha. He’s like this cartoon character who keeps punching himself in his own face. Was he this fracking developmentally disabled* when he was Governor of Florida?

    *As a former Bostonian, I’m PC’ing a crasser version of this common New England saying.

  116. 116
    What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us? says:

    The really stupid thing is they’re all implying that Obama hasn’t kept us safe, when there hasn’t been a single terrorist attack on the order of 9/11 on his watch. There have been a few shooting events starring Muslims, but then there have been a bunch of shooting events staring not-Muslims, because shooting events is just what we do here in America these days. What there hasn’t been is a single event where hundreds, or even thousands, of people were killed in a terrorist attack. So…he’s done better than W.

  117. 117
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?:

    The really stupid thing is

    all of it.

  118. 118
    goblue72 says:

    @What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?: There’s also that whole capturing Osama bin Laden thing as well. Funny how the wingers all seem to get amnesia about that.

  119. 119
    trollhattan says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    Ooh, ooh, say it again. Morans require repetition, you know.

  120. 120
    Brachiator says:

    @jl:

    He has nice analysis of how Fiorina’s detailed list of ships and troop build-ups were just lines fed to her that have little bearing on the national security problems under discussion.

    I saw another piece on this, but will check out Marshall. I think that Fiorina was over-compensating, trying to show that a woman could be up on military matters, but her stuff was too specific to be reasonable.

    Unless of course, Fiorina proposes a land invasion of Iran in her second term to make it a US vassal.

    I’ve seen this claim pop up a couple of times with respect to various GOP candidates. It’s too nutty to be taken seriously.

    One thing I don’t see much about, that was a topic here last night, was how horrible the debate moderation was. If there are any bigger empty suits and cowardly shiftless griffters than the clownish contestants on the stage last night, it was the panel of moderators, with Tapper leading the parade of shame. Hard to believe I would ever think Hewitt better than Tapper, but here we are.

    I think that the moderators want to stay out of the way of the debaters, and let the presidential hopefuls challenge their opponents on truth and accuracy. Otherwise the moderators would appear to be editorializing or singling out a particular speaker to criticize.

    But here the lies were flying too fast and thick.

  121. 121
    Mandalay says:

    Ann Coulter has a new BFF following her tweet about “f—– Jews” during the GOP debate:

    US govs put their people under Zionists custody.Isn’t it a shame that presidential candidates try to satisfy Zionists&prove their servitude?

    Politics makes strange bedfellows. Or as Rick Perry might say, oops.

  122. 122
    jl says:

    @Jeffro:

    ” Every right-winger I know seems to think George W Bush was sworn in for his first term on September 12, 2001. ”

    It might help to focus their minds not just on GW’s incompetence, but the fact that the whole strategic posture of the Cheney/Neocon axis that GW allowed to run wild the first year of his administration was a mistake. They went looking for another great nations Cold War confrontation, and completely ignored the growing problem of stateless terrorism. Certainly much more so than the vile philanderer Bill Clinton.

    I think both HRC and Sanders would mention that, and might sway some of the semi-wingers who have some sense left. The hard care are almost certainly beyond reach at this point.

  123. 123
    Patrick says:

    @Brachiator:

    Otherwise the moderators would appear to be editorializing or singling out a particular speaker to criticize.

    Sure. But there are limits; such as Jeb Bush’s amazing lie about keeping us safe.

  124. 124
    Patrick says:

    @What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?:

    What there hasn’t been is a single event where hundreds, or even thousands, of people were killed in a terrorist attack. So…he’s done better than W.

    And they keep whining and having hearings about Benghazi; this eventhough they never ever mention that 8-9 US embassies were attacked during the Bush era.

  125. 125
    jl says:

    @Brachiator: My comment about a Fiorina plan to annex Iran was snark.

    As for fast and thick lies, I believe the moderators sheer negligence and lack of basic competence at running the debate encouraged to contestants to lie and generally avoid responding in a reasonable way to questions. I didn’t hear them set down any ground rules at all, they just launched into chickenshit questions designed to start a poo flinging contest. And as the contestants’ gradually understood what they could get away with, their behavior got progressively more outlandish as the debate progressed.

    Next time, they may show up in character costumes and make-up with managers. Trump understands that schtick very well.

  126. 126
    NotMax says:

    @jl

    Completely down the memory hole was the widespread perception (even unto coloring media reportage) that Bush was a goofball, a joke and a feckless jerk right up through Sept. 10.

  127. 127
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Betty Cracker: FFS, Jeb is not letting this “He kept us safe thing” go. He tweeted a picture of Shrub standing with firefighters (in some naturally occurring rubble of some sort) with the quote.

    Jesus. I honestly can’t tell if he’s cynically exploiting the willful and selective amnesia (don’t know how else to describe it) of the political establishment, or if he sincerely believes there’s nothing fucked up about all this.

    and I suspect at least 65% of Sunday Show/Morning Joe regulars would be genuinely confused if you suggested there was something almost pathological about this.

  128. 128
    Germy Shoemangler says:

    For once I agree with him:

    Limbaugh: Watching GOP Debate Was Like “Watching 11 Rush Limbaughs”

  129. 129
    NotMax says:

    @Patrick

    When the G.O.P. announced the debate schedule, one stipulation was specifically mentioned as non-negotiable. Namely that the moderators would not interject nor inject themselves into the proceedings beyond asking questions, calling for rebuttal and enforcing time limits.

  130. 130
    Betty Cracker says:

    @goblue72:

    Was he this fracking developmentally disabled* when he was Governor of Florida?

    He succeeded spectacularly in his goals of purging the voter rolls of likely Democrats, foisting his idiot brother off on the country as president, shoveling education funds to cronies, kowtowing to the NRA, sucking up to “pro-lifers” with his shameful conduct in the Schiavo affair, etc., etc., so I thought he had more focus than he’s displayed in this campaign, honestly.

  131. 131
    Germy Shoemangler says:

    @NotMax:

    When the G.O.P. announced the debate schedule, one stipulation was specifically mentioned as non-negotiable. Namely that the moderators would not interject nor inject themselves into the proceedings beyond asking questions, calling for rebuttal and enforcing time limits.

    Wow! “If you hear any lies from our candidates, please don’t let the audience know.”

  132. 132
    redshirt says:

    @NotMax:

    Completely down the memory hole was the widespread perception (even unto coloring media reportage) that Bush was a goofball, a joke and a feckless jerk right up through Sept. 10.

    Ah, remember those innocent days from 1/20/01 through 9/10/01?

    Watching Bush get owned by the Chinese, general laughs, it was all very funny.

  133. 133
    goblue72 says:

    @Betty Cracker: I guess sucking that much Koch wore him out.

  134. 134
    gratuitous says:

    Maybe the crowd cheered that “he kept us safe” line the same way the crowd cheered on Steve Martin’s second comedy album when he finished his set with “Ex-c-u-u-u-u-use ME!” Nostalgia for a worn-out line?

    Anyway, it’s pretty clear that after looking at George W. Bush’s first eight months in office, approximately four months of which he was on vacation, the 9/11 attackers figured they had a pretty easy mark, and boy, were they right. Anyone remember the Chinese downing one of our spy planes and holding the flight crew hostage? The only response the Bush administration could muster was extracting a promise from the Chinese that the flight crew could have access to Bibles. Big whoop.

    It was left to our other good friends, the Russians, to intervene on our behalf and get the Chinese to release the crew and return our spy plane and its then state-of-the-art snooping equipment. Of course, it was all in itty-bitty pieces, having been thoroughly examined by both the Chinese and the Russians. A foreign affairs disaster of the first water. Is it any wonder that terrorists figured the Bush administration for a bunch of inept blunderers? Within six months after the 9/11 attacks, Bush’s attention had wandered so far afield that he could tell the world that he didn’t care about Osama bin Laden and wasn’t worried about where he might be.

    So, by all means, let’s put the Republicans back in the White House.

  135. 135
    Just One More Canuck says:

    @Germy Shoemangler: Well, cats were gods there. She obviously thinks it is family history

  136. 136
    benw says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    FFS, Jeb is not letting this “He kept us safe thing” go

    I think he’s kind of stuck. The US is not going to forget 9/11 and he’s a Bush. So he’s going to try to make the “he kept us safe” version of 9/11 stick now. If no one calls him on it (and almost none of the Republican candidates can since they’re all on record cheering on W, 9/11, and Iraq), it’s “accepted” wisdom and it will be understood by the media that it’s the Democratic candidate’s job to “change the perception”. They won’t bring 9/11 up again if Bush can make his version stick now; the Democrats will have to do it, at which point they will be “politicizing the tragedy”.

    It’s also early. If he gets called out enough on it so that looks bad, he can just drop it and try something else later. And he can count on the media not bringing it up again in the general, because “it happened months ago!” Or Bush could just be flinging shit around because he has no coherent plan and is a clueless moron living in a bubble-world where W is a true American hero. I don’t even know, the Republican party is so, so crazy at this point.

    Edit: and @Jim, Foolish Literalist said the same thing, only clearer and more concisely. Dammit!

  137. 137
    Brachiator says:

    @Patrick:

    Sure. But there are limits; such as Jeb Bush’s amazing lie about keeping us safe.

    Yep. This was especially idiotic.

    @Germy Shoemangle

    When the G.O.P. announced the debate schedule, one stipulation was specifically mentioned as non-negotiable. Namely that the moderators would not interject nor inject themselves into the proceedings beyond asking questions, calling for rebuttal and enforcing time limits.

    Sadly, this makes sense. The political parties and the candidates want to do everything they can to control the message.

  138. 138
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Looking around twitter, mostly liberal-leaning journos, it looks like Trump’s gibbering about vaccines is getting more play than what Jeb said about his brother.

  139. 139
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @A guy: I’m sure when Clinton launched cruise missiles into Sudan and Afghanistan you were talking about “Wag the Dog”.

  140. 140
    geg6 says:

    @Kay:

    This makes me very, very happy.

  141. 141
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @benw: Kind of like we (“we”) all agreed that the Surge! was a great success, it was our version of “declare victory and get out”, and now Republicans can say “we”, again, that problematic pronoun, “we had this thing won!”. And John McCain, who actually believes it, can go on TV and say, “I’m right about everything”, and not be laughed off the set.

  142. 142
    geg6 says:

    @A guy:

    Oh please. Your heroes in the GOP were screaming about wag the dog when he was trying to bomb bin Laden’s camps. He saw the danger coming. Your idiot president ignored all the intelligence and got all those people killed. And then killed hundreds of thousands of other innocents when he decided to take his eye off the prize in Afghanistan in favor of his excellent Iraq adventure.

  143. 143
    Culture of Truth says:

    If we weren’t so inured to their craziness by now, that three hour debate would have been shocking and horrifying for its display of utter insanity.

  144. 144
    geg6 says:

    @goblue72:

    I had a winger tell me yesterday that it was Bush’s plan for getting bin Laden that Obama used, so it was really W who got him. Seriously.

  145. 145
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @gratuitous:

    Maybe the crowd cheered that “he kept us safe” line the same way the crowd cheered on Steve Martin’s second comedy album when he finished his set with “Ex-c-u-u-u-u-use ME!” Nostalgia for a worn-out line?

    At least that was the lead in to something new, “King Tut”.

  146. 146
    Mandalay says:

    These are all separate headlines on Politico’s homepage right now:
    – Trump’s bad morning after
    – Trump was low-energy.
    – Trump fails to bully, loses bluster
    – Donald Trump Met His Match in Carly Fiorina
    – Is the summer of Trump over?

    The Empire strikes back if you dare to challenge all the decisions being made from smoke-filled rooms.

  147. 147
    NotMax says:

    @geg6

    Hope you weren’t having anything liquid at the time.

    Might’ve choked on the spit take

  148. 148
    Thoughtful Today says:

    A lot of us keep forgetting how deeply incoherent right-wing authoritarian cognitive dissonance is….

  149. 149
    NonyNony says:

    @geg6: W’s plan for getting bin Laden was to not “spend that much time on him”.

    I mean that’s not a perception from an angry liberal – that’s what W said himself in a freaking press conference. He wasn’t concerned with bin Laden because as far as he was concerned the problems in the mid East were all centered on Iraq and how to transfer the money and resources there into the pockets of his friends.

  150. 150
    BillinGlendaleCA says:

    @NonyNony:

    how to transfer the money

    C-130’s with pallets of $100 bills, IIRC.

  151. 151
    geg6 says:

    @NonyNony:

    Oh, I remember it well. But the winger is convinced that W killed bin Laden and no one is going to tell him any different.

  152. 152
    benw says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Exactly. And tax cuts raise revenue, and Republicans are the foreign policy experts, and Democrats are soft on crime, and Republicans are the party of values, and on and on forever. The more I think about it, Bush’s team must be crossing their fingers SO HARD that this “he kept us safe” gets traction, at least until the election. If it does, they’ve blunted a huge negative for his campaign, with one simple catchphrase.

  153. 153
    Tom Q says:

    @Mandalay: I might take those headlines more seriously had I not read an equivalent bunch after the first debate.

    The empire’s been trying to liquidate Trump since June. It still seems like it’s what might happen, though it grows less certain every day. And the last people you should trust on the matter are the Beltway press.

  154. 154
    NotMax says:

    (Hat tip to Mother Jones.)

    Who knew?

    Bernie Sanders, the game.

  155. 155
    J R in WV says:

    John Cole:

    YES!! This!!

    No, John Ellis Bush, your brother did NOT keep us safe!!

    Your brother declined to take action when warned that terrorists may target the US using airliners. Thereby facilitating that attack, when was it again? Oh, yes, September 11, 2001 !!

    That attack on America, it happened on George Walker Bush’s watch. Then the war built on false pretenses against the middle-eastern country that DID NOT attack America. That was George Walker Bush’s work, again!

    John Ellis Bush, you brother did not keep us safe. He killed hundreds of thousands of people for nothing.

    Katrina. New Orleans and the Mississippi coast – underwater. Civilian volunteers towed their bass boats to Louisiana to rescue people trapped on their roofs! Because George Walker Bush didn’t have any federal organization capable of mounting a rescue operation.

    Because government, what is it good for? NOTHING!! Just ask a Republican office-holder !!!

    So wrong, JEB! – just so wrong.

    Thank you for this post, John Cole!

  156. 156
    The Golux says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    FFS, Jeb is not letting this “He kept us safe thing” go. He tweeted a picture of Shrub standing with firefighters (in some naturally occurring rubble of some sort) with the quote.

    He would have had a point if it were a photo of his brother dining at Windows On the World on September 12.

  157. 157
    goblue72 says:

    @geg6: Jesus H Christ…the delusion of the wingnuts, it burns.

  158. 158
    NotMax says:

    Realizing that some here have issues with Mr. Larison, nevertheless, from The American Conservative:

    Last night’s Republican debates took five hours to reconfirm most of what we already knew about the candidates. Trump demonstrated how much of a substance-free blowhard he could be, Bush secured his reputation as a wonkish nebbish, Fiorina proved that she could recite a laundry list of questionable hawkish ideas, and Paul showed a few times during the debate what it would be like to have a candidate who offered coherent dissents from party orthodoxy on foreign policy. Overall, most of the candidates showed that they were not well-prepared on foreign policy issues, and while they may have talked a lot about them they ended up saying very little.
    [snip]
    The terrible state of Republican foreign policy was on full display last night, and I imagine the Democratic candidates cannot believe their party’s luck that their opponents are happily embracing such hard-line and dangerous policies. Source

  159. 159
    jl says:

    @Mandalay: thanks. Interesting that Politico did not pick up the “Trumps Top Zingers’ story I saw on top of the internet news pages..

  160. 160
    WaterGirl says:

    Has something crazy happened with my eyes or is the BJ font different and smaller than it was before?

  161. 161
    sigaba says:

    @NotMax: Larison’s great. Just don’t bring up the Confederacy :)

  162. 162
    Steeplejack says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    [Jeb] tweeted a picture of Shrub standing with firefighters (in some naturally occurring rubble of some sort) with the quote.

    I love Adam Mordecai’s Twitter response: “Except for that one time in this picture.”

  163. 163
    Chyron HR says:

    How many months are we going to spend on congressional hearings investigating Hillary’s involvement in 9/11?

    (All of them, Katie.)

  164. 164
    jl says:

    @NotMax:

    ” When the G.O.P. announced the debate schedule, one stipulation was specifically mentioned as non-negotiable. Namely that the moderators would not interject nor inject themselves into the proceedings beyond asking questions, calling for rebuttal and enforcing time limits. ”

    Thanks. I did not know that. I am glad that the GOP is so stupid. I hope the DNC is smarter and understands the danger of allowing the candidates the missoverestimate themselves by allowing them complete license to lie BS and pander, when they should be preparing for serious debates in the general election.

    I hope HRC, Sanders and the others are grown-up enough to police themselves if the DNC is that stupid. But, having only 4 o4 5 rather than 11 will help.

  165. 165
    Right to Rise says:

    Get used to it–“he kept us safe” and the warm, fuzzy moments people remember George W. for after 9/11 will always and forever be Jeb’s response whenever someone questions his family.

    A few months of this and I wouldn’t be surprised to see George W. with a primetime speaking role at the convention.

    Suck on that.

  166. 166
    Trentrunner says:

    @Right to Rise: I’m happy to wager you $1000 right now that GWB will NOT have a primetime speaking slot at the 2016 Republican Convention.

    Your money…

    Your mouth…

    Increasing proximity?

    I thought not.

  167. 167
    boatboy_srq says:

    @Kay:

    anti-sex marriage amendments on ballots

    I had forgotten that the Reichwing is anti-sex. That explains so much.

  168. 168
    jl says:

    I guess tastes differ on trolling styles, but I like when DougJ ventures into playful absurdity.

  169. 169
    Chyron HR says:

    @Right to Rise: We all know that by next year you’ll be fanatically worshipping Trump and denying that you ever heard of JEB!, so why don’t you just switch to the winning team now and save yourself months of humiliation? It’s not like you have any self-respect to begin with.

  170. 170
    jl says:

    @boatboy_srq: But RtR says any message will work if you have enough Unlimited Corporate Cash to repeat it endlessly. Whitman showed that in California.

  171. 171
    Right to Rise says:

    @Chyron HR:

    Trump was one of the biggest losers last night. It’s the beginning of the end for Donald.

  172. 172
    jl says:

    That is a good name for the GOP primary debate reality show series: The Biggest Loser. I like it. Thanks.

  173. 173
    Elie says:

    Apropos to nothing, I was surprised at how small Trumps hands are. And he likes to make that gesture of “lecturing” his audience by holding up his index finger, so he shows how short that little thing is.

    Also, Dr. Carson is a pretty short dude compared to Trump, Bush, etc. The only candidate that appeared shorter was Rand Paul. All the others except Fiorina appeared taller. Short man syndrome?

    Interesting…

  174. 174
    RaflW says:

    @Germy Shoemangler:

    We watch Muir every night because it’s the same channel as jeopardy

    You do understand that your TeeVee device is tuneable, yes? I believe we call it the clicker in our household, though in fairness, the handheld devices haven’t really made audible clicks in a couple of decades.

    :)

  175. 175
    redshirt says:

    @A guy:

    Clinton let bin laden go

    Clinton was “handed Bin Laden on a silver platter”, was he not?

  176. 176
    boatboy_srq says:

    @jl: Is RtR still paddling his lifeboat from last night?

  177. 177
    RaflW says:

    @jl:

    As for fast and thick lies, I believe the moderators sheer negligence and lack of basic competence at running the debate encouraged to contestants to lie and generally avoid responding in a reasonable way to questions.

    To some extent, yes. But today’s consequence-free lionizing of iCarly as the winner, tour de force, strong showing b.s. once again shows that with our almost universally supine press, you can lie your ass off as part of the job interview for president and get rave reviews!

    It goes so much farther than Tapper. He’s a little pud-puller, but he’s also just goin’ along with the whole corrupt program.

  178. 178
    Sherparick says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Don’t feed the troll. Although “a guy” was amazingly weak in his trollery today. It is an interesting example of how a Republican Conservative President he is never, ever responsible for anything bad.that happens in his term of office. The Bombing of the Marine barracks & selling arms to Iran never happen under Reagan.

  179. 179
    cckids says:

    @geg6:

    Oh, I remember it well. But the winger is convinced that W killed bin Laden and no one is going to tell him any different.

    This is the enormous problem with attempting to deal with conservatives right now. FACTS JUST DON’T MATTER TO THEM. They have created their own little reality; one where Obama has destroyed the nation & GW wasn’t so bad. Where Donald F-ing Trump is a viable – nay, desirable – Presidential candidate.

    It boggles the mind, and is scary as hell.

  180. 180
    RaflW says:

    @Culture of Truth:

    If we weren’t so inured to their craziness by now, that three hour debate would have been shocking and horrifying for its display of utter insanity.

    Absolutely.
    I am not enjoying watching the decline and fall of America. And I am most especially not enjoying the pretend adults in the media ‘analyzing’ last nights results as if a catastrophe hadn’t just happened.

  181. 181
    A guy says:

    Hillary has to be the poster child for feminism! A submissive wife who tolerated her husbands daliances to advance her own ambition . At the end of the day even the did hard feminist realizes she must succumb to the man to get what she needs .

  182. 182
    tybee says:

    @A guy:

    omnes is right about you.

  183. 183
    jl says:

    @A guy: Not too late to get in the GOP primary. I read in the news recently that there’s a new spot available. You’d fit right in.

  184. 184
    mclaren says:

    On whose watch did the 9/11 attack occur?

    A Republican president?

    Or a Democratic president?

    Case closed. End of discussion.

  185. 185
    mclaren says:

    @A guy:

    Clinton let bin laden go.

    Reagan financed, supported and created bin Laden as an international terrorist.

    Cha-ching.

    Game over, asshole.

  186. 186
    mclaren says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    You’re a fucking moron.

    More detail, please. Vacuous name-calling doesn’t get us anywhere. We need to explain clearly and simply why this clown is a “fucking moron,” and we do that by citing facts.

    Facts like: Reagan financed and supported terrorists worldwide, including bin Laden.

    Don’t like bin Laden’s international terror network?

    Thank Ronald Reagan, who created it. Not Bill Clinton, who tried to destroy it.

    You also need to try a little logic instead of name-calling. What “a guy” is saying is that we should blame the fireman who tries to put a fire instead of the pyromaniac who started it. Reagan is the pyromaniac, Bill Clinton is the fireman.

    Does “a guy”s logic make sense?

    That’s how you debunk these far-right trolls: facts and logic. Not empty name-calling.

  187. 187
    Renie says:

    @Right to Rise: Oh look who slithered out of the basement.

  188. 188
    catclub says:

    @Elie:

    I was surprised at how small Trumps hands are

    Hence the sobriquet ‘ short fingered vulgarian’.

  189. 189
    Shana says:

    @NotMax: There was one other thing I like. Laura Bush started the National Book Festival which is still going on.

  190. 190
    mclaren says:

    @Right to Rise:

    Get used to it–“he kept us safe”…

    How did ignoring the FBI’s warnings about the biggest terror attack in U.S. history “keep us safe”?

    George W. Bush’s shocking ignorance and gross incompetence 9and the appalling incompetence of the ignorant inept clown Bush appointed) allowed the 9/11 attackers to go about their plans unhindered. Bush created the slack lackadaisickal incompetent conditions necessary for the 9/11 attacks, just as Bush created the slack lackadaisickal incompetent conditions necessary for the disaster that Hurricane Katrina turned into.

    Bush is responsible for the 9/11 attacks due to his lack of vigilance, his incompetence, his slacking-off, and his general lack of attention to the job of the presidency he was supposed to be doing.

    This is the opposite of “keeping us safe.”

    Compare Bush and Obama: 9/11 occurred on Bush’s watch. On Obama’s watch, he got bin Laden.

    Which president “kept us safe”?

  191. 191
    mclaren says:

    @Shana:

    Did you like the way Laura Bush got drunk and murdered someone with her car by running his down and then walked away from her manslaughter charge without jail time because her family was influential and well-connected?

  192. 192
    PurpleGirl says:

    @Betty Cracker: No…that is the rubble of the World Trade Center. Lying Bastard.

  193. 193
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @mclaren:

    That’s how you debunk these far-right trolls: facts and logic. Not empty name-calling.

    I had no interest in debunking the troll. Every sentient being who reads this blog knows those facts. I was interested in calling the troll a fucking moron. The reasoning that led to my conclusion should be obvious to any sentient being who reads this blog.

  194. 194
    PurpleGirl says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA: I’ve said it before, millions of dollars were kept in the office of the public relations officers. Any time they were meeting with an Iraqi they just took some cash off the stack, didn’t even write down how much was given who. Just picked up the cash and left the office.

  195. 195
    redshirt says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I had no interest in debunking the troll. Every sentient being who reads this blog knows those facts. I was interested in calling the troll a fucking moron. The reasoning that led to my conclusion should be obvious to any sentient being who reads this blog.

    I’ll allow it.

  196. 196
    Shana says:

    @mclaren: As I recall, it took several years for people to figure out and confirm that it was Bin Laden who was behind those things. Didn’t Richard Clark brief the incoming Bush administration on all the intel they’d put together about that?

  197. 197
    NotMax says:

    @Shana

    He attempted to (several times, IIRC), and was essentially ordered to drop that portfolio from his duties.

  198. 198
    redshirt says:

    @NotMax: OK you covered your ass!

  199. 199
    LanceThruster says:

    @boatboy_srq:

    My housecat keeps me safe from heffalumps.

  200. 200
    redshirt says:

    @LanceThruster:

    My housecat keeps me safe from heffalumps.

    Mr. NoNoggins has stolen my sock, again.

  201. 201
    Ruckus says:

    @Elizabelle:
    A fellow at work with a license plate frame that says annoy a liberal watched the “debate” last night and first thing he says after asking me if I watched was “Those fuckers are nuts, what are they running for? Not one of them is qualified to be president.” My answer was junior high class president. And none of them is qualified for the job. And he agreed and said he was amazed that any of them could possibly believe they could be president.

    Maybe there is hope for the world.

  202. 202
    mclaren says:

    @Shana:

    Yes, Richard Clark did brief the incoming Bush administration on the threat posed by bin Laden. More specifically, an FBI agent forwarded a direct warning about middle easterners with green cards who were taking flying courses in Florida but who weren’t interested in learning how to land.

    That warning, like all the other warnings, was ignored by the Bush administration.

    See the New York Times article “The Deafness Before the Storm. The Bush administration was much more interested in playing political games and ramming through its tax cuts for the rich than in protecting America from terrorists prior to 9/11.

    On Aug. 6, 2001, President George W. Bush received a classified review of the threats posed by Osama bin Laden and his terrorist network, Al Qaeda. That morning’s “presidential daily brief” — the top-secret document prepared by America’s intelligence agencies — featured the now-infamous heading: “Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S.” A few weeks later, on 9/11, Al Qaeda accomplished that goal.

    On April 10, 2004, the Bush White House declassified that daily brief — and only that daily brief — in response to pressure from the 9/11 Commission, which was investigating the events leading to the attack. Administration officials dismissed the document’s significance, saying that, despite the jaw-dropping headline, it was only an assessment of Al Qaeda’s history, not a warning of the impending attack. While some critics considered that claim absurd, a close reading of the brief showed that the argument had some validity.

    Also see “FBI was warned about flight schools,” AP Wire, 15 May 2002:

    Two months before the suicide hijackings, an FBI agent in Arizona alerted Washington headquarters that several Middle Easterners were training at a U.S. aviation school and recommended contacting other schools nationwide where Arabs might be studying.

    “FBIHQ should discuss this matter with other elements of the U.S. intelligence community and task the community for any information that supports Phoenix’s suspicions,” the agent recommended in the memo obtained by The Associated Press.

    The FBI sent the intelligence to its terrorism experts in Washington and New York for analysis and had begun discussing conducting a nationwide canvass of flight schools when the Sept. 11 tragedies occurred, officials told AP.

    The Bush administration systematically ignored all these warnings and paid no attention to all this intelligence.

  203. 203
    mclaren says:

    @Ruckus:
    Did you point out that “fellow at work” that the Republican party wouldn’t be where it is today without the help and support of people like him?

    Did you mention that maybe “annoy a liberal” is not as good a plank to run on as “govern effectively”?

  204. 204

    […] – No, Jeb Bush, Your Brother Did Not Keep Us Safe […]

  205. 205
    Ben says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: This… and, while the GOP debates have featured strengthening the 6th fleet (or whatever) and beefing up the military, nary a question from the mods about how they are going to pay for this shit. Oh, that’s right, they will deficit spend until we are broke (thank you shrub) and then lay another shit sandwich on the dem president when he comes in. Or, if they don’t want to deficit spend (they do) they will just do away with SS and medicare and whatever else helps keep poor or lower income above the poverty line.

  206. 206
    A guy says:

    Mclaren—–Just cause Reagan created him doesn’t excuse Clinton from letting him live. Cha-Ching!

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