The saga of Rowan County, Kentucky County Clerk Kim Davis continues, as now the 6th Circuit Court of Appeals has denied to step in on her behalf and stop a lower court judge’s ruling requiring her to issue marriage licenses again. Davis isn’t budging and continues to ignore the courts.
Rowan County Clerk Kim Davis has refused to issue any marriage licenses, citing her Christian faith and constitutional right to religious freedom, since the landmark decision in June.
On Thursday morning, a deputy clerk in her office refused to issue a marriage license to William Smith Jr. and James Yates. It was their third attempt to get a license.
They said they will not give up.
“They just don’t like gay people, they don’t want us to get married,” Yates said. “And they’d rather burn the earth and not let straight people in Rowan County get married either.”
The action Thursday came just a day after a federal appeals court upheld a ruling ordering the clerk in rural Rowan County to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples.
U.S. District Judge David Bunning had already ordered Davis to issue marriage licenses two weeks ago. He later delayed that ruling until Aug. 31 or until the U.S. 6th Circuit Court of Appeals issued a ruling. The appeals court did so on Wednesday, denying Davis’ appeal.
But a deputy clerk in Davis’ office told Smith and Yates on Thursday that the office believes Bunning’s delay remains in effect until Aug. 31. He refused to give his name or give them a license.
Davis, meanwhile, sat in her office with the door closed. She talked on the phone, ignoring the commotion as the couples, trailed by activists and reporters, poured in through the door and demanded answers.
So now things get interesting, as Rowan County isn’t the only county refusing to play ball here.
Casey Davis, the elected Casey County clerk, spoke earlier this week to West Virginia radio host Tom Roten about his refusal to follow the U.S. Supreme Court ruling in Obergefell v. Hodges because it violated his Christian beliefs, reported Right Wing Watch.
The 6th Circuit Court of Appeals on Wednesday slapped down the latest challenge filed by the Rowan county clerk, with help and encouragement from the conservative Liberty Counsel, ruling that county clerks are obligated to follow the law and not their personal beliefs.
Davis disagrees, saying his religious beliefs are more important than U.S. or state law.
“When you stand for what’s right and when you tell someone of the danger that they are in, and I think that when a person lives a lifestyle of sin whether it’s homosexuality or drunkenness or drug addiction or adultery or thievery or any kind of sin that you continue in or live in, you are endangering yourself of spending eternity in Hell,” Davis said. “So in my view of what the Bible says, when you’re truly loving someone, you stand and you lovingly tell them, ‘This is not the way to Heaven, this is not the way of right.’”
So the world’s dumbest standoff featuring the world’s dumbest people continues here in my backyard because FREEDOM and EAGLE and MURICA and frankly until Gov. Beshear actually decides to do something about it, these assholes aren’t going to do their jobs.
Amir Khalid
So when do the US Marshals show up to haul Davis and Davis off to a federal lockup?
sophronia
So before this horrible court decision that destroyed America, I suppose Mr. County Clerk was refusing to issue licenses to anyone who drank, or stole things, or committed any other sin? Oh, he wasn’t? Well, gosh, I wonder what is so different now.
shell
They can;t fire her cause its an elected position. Easy to be steadfast in your beliefs if you got nothing at risk. If she was in danger of being fired you can be t she would be singing a slightly different tune.
Anoniminous
The end result of this garbage will be to create pseudo-martyrs to ‘validate’ (sic) the current Conservative propaganda that Christians are being oppressed.
charluckles
In your position as a public employee your belief’s are absolutely NOT more important that state or federal law. It’s past time to make an example out of one of these twits and send them to jail.
Tinare
Yep. Hold them in contempt of court, throw them in jail. Sorry, if your beliefs do not allow you to do your job and uphold the LAW, then you need to find a line of work suitable to your narrow little mind. Your rights cannot infringe on the rights of others.
wmd
@Tinare:
Exactly – Contempt of Court -put them in jail. If deputy Clerks refuse to follow the law put them in jail too.
they have a right to their beliefs. They also have a job that requires adherence to the law. Do your job. Or resign. If you keep refusing to follow the law then go to jail.
Mike J
She’s absolutely free to hate whomever she wants. She’s also free to get another job, if she feels she can’t fulfill the duties of her current position.
It’s a pity none of the underlings in her office have issued the licenses and dared her to fire them, since they would have a religious freedom lawsuit to file against her.
Hal
Kim Davis has been married 4 times. I guess she really does love marriage.
Another Holocene Human
Beshear: What’s a little small town corruption between friends?
SatanicPanic
@Tinare: yeah, why isn’t this happening yet?
Nick
This has nothing to do with gay marriage, except in the cosmetic sense — I’m sure that these people are hoping to score a vast wingnut payout, just like the pizza people and wedding cake people. It makes sense, how will you ever save up a few hundred thousand dollars on a Hillbilly State county clerk salary?
Neal Peart
I assume neither of these clerks have any problem issuing marriage licenses to divorced straight folks.
JDM
@sophronia:
No previously divorced people, for instance. (EDIT: I see Neal ninja’d me; if only I’d been typing this on a computer instead of a tablet our roles could’ve been reversed. Curse you, Neal! :) And no cotton-poly shirts.
If Davis resigned rather than perform the job, I could admire the personal integrity even though I vehemently oppose her position. But the way she’s handling it, insisting she get paid for not doing her job, unpatriotically going against the law even after the Supreme Court has ruled on the matter, is reprehensible.
MattF
@Amir Khalid: If and when she’s declared in contempt and ordered to jail. Judges have various choices– fines, jail, etc. As a rule, Federal judges don’t like being disobeyed.
Bobby Thomson
The governor can’t do shit. Judge Bunning can ask her to come to court and pack a toothbrush. Then the acting deputy does her job.
Baud
@SatanicPanic:
District court allowed appeal to occur. Now that it’s over, it should happen soon. I doubt the district court would wait for Supreme Court appeals.
Howard Beale IV
These idiots cannot succinctly and explicitly explain how their religious rights are being violated. It’s as simple as that.
They are not being stopped from praying.
They are not being stopped from going to church.
They are not being stopped from tithing.
Sorry, but other things they already object to today on religious grounds does not give them the right to stop doing what they were paid to do. And if any one of these WATB start mewling about persecution, well, pucker up, Buttercup-not only should you expect this, but you should be very willing and be grateful that you aren’t being persecuted to the death.
lgerard
@Mike J:
I believe that the law requires the clerk to sign all licenses, it is not something that can be delegated.
In any event, it will be an opportunity for her to expand her jail ministry
dedc79
@MattF: It’d be nice if there was a way to handle this that didn’t turn her into some kind of martyr/hero for the wingers. I mean, don’t get me wrong. I think she SHOULD got to jail. I just think it’s what the crazies are hoping will happen.
Meanwhile, I wonder whether she’s ever denied a couple a wedding certificate upon seeing that the bride was well along into a pregnancy. I’m guessing not.
Felonius Monk
Would someone please ask Mr. Davis if he also interrogates other seekers of marriage licenses whether or not they are adulterers, fornicators, masturbaters, thieves, murderers, or if they have ever worshiped false gods. and then refuses to serve them.
This guy is a simple minded asshole who should be fired immediately for failing to perform his job. Likewise for the Davis woman in Rowan County.
Patricia Kayden
Fire them all. This is very simple. They don’t get to disobey the Supreme Court with no consequences.
Culture of Truth
For convenience, the county government should make sinners, adulterers, heathens, and Jewish citizens wear some kind of identifying mark at all times.
Also, perhaps some kind mandatory religious instruction. It’s for their own good.
PaulW
If you arrest these clerks, you make them martyrs to their hatist cause.
The solution is actually very simple.
Hire more clerks. The courts can issue an emergency order requiring the counties to hire an extra clerk to handle any and all back-logs of legal matters including marriage licenses. The courts should be able to identity qualified persons who will hold no religious objections to same-sex couples to serve as emergency clerks.
In the meantime, those elected office clerk positions better have solid candidates lining up who WILL respect the laws of this land to win the next election cycle.
MattF
@Patricia Kayden: What I read on TPM is that because she’s an elected official, the only way she can be ‘fired’ is by being impeached and convicted by the State legislature. Which ain’t gonna happen.
Calouste
Folks, these county clerks are elected officials, not employees. Unless Kentucky has recall or impeachment procedures, there might be no way to get rid of them. Just shows that it is not a good idea to elect every minor executive. Taking it to the end, people could just get elected and take a 4 year paid vacation.
delk
Taxpayers are paying her $80,000.
She been married multiple times and her daughter is a thief. I didn’t realize that the bible doesn’t comment on either of those things.
NorthLeft12
Is a fine really one of the options that the judge has for refusing to follow the court’s orders?
If so, fining her exactly what she is being paid to do her job, plus 10% [because TITHING!!1!!] would seem to me to be an elegant solution to this predicament. With the understanding that if she does not change her behavior soon that jail will be her next residence.
The more I hear about these sanctimonious and hateful Christians the more disgusted I become of the whole racket. Organized religion I mean.
And yes I know that there are a lot of good people that are religious too…….unfortunately their good works are getting drowned out by the douchebags who use religion to justify their hate.
Tripod
Fucking blockheads.
Same song, different verse…..
“Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!”
Roger Moore
@shell:
Just wait until she’s facing a contempt charge. I bet the threat of a substantial fine and/or time in the slammer will change her mind.
MattF
@NorthLeft12: Yeah, typically it’s something like “$100 a day until you obey the order.” And, I assume, the judge has the power to seize her assets in case of non-payment.
Grumpy Code Monkey
His religious beliefs, or anyone’s religious beliefs?
I mean, what about my deeply held religious belief that I should be able to take a baseball bat to people like Davis?
Brachiator
So, is there a marriage license application form that asks if you are gay, an alcoholic or drug addict, adulterer or thief?
Bobby Thomson
@MattF: true. But the judge has summary contempt power to convict her and sentence her to up to six months without a jury trial. Presumably an acting clerk will actually do the work in her stead.
Comrade Dread
Admittedly, I’m probably not the right kind of Christian, but I’d really one of them to explain to me how doing your job as a government official and handing a couple a piece of paper violates the tenets of Christianity.
boatboy_srq
@Hal: That’s a love of weddings. Not quite the same thing.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
I’m not surprised by this at all, because this is the same group of people who believe that their right to carry a gun anywhere, anytime, cannot be abridged. They don’t get why their right to carry a gun into a school or a church should be overriden by someone else’s right to feel safe in those places.
Basically, they have the emotional maturity of four-year-olds who have not yet learned that other people have feelings, too, and sometimes you have to think about what other people want, not just what you want.
NorthLeft12
@Calouste: Exactly when was it decided to elect so many government positions? I know some people think this is some kind of great triumph of democracy, but electing a county clerk, attorney general, or sheriff or judge, etcetera, just makes no sense to me.
No wonder voting days are just a huge clusterf**k down there. It must take twenty minutes to mark all the ballots or pull all the levers or whatever, even if you are informed and prepared.
Zinsky
If they want to be martyrs, make them into martyrs! Execute them!
boatboy_srq
@Brachiator:
I doubt it, but there certainly sounds like a county clerk or two who will ask the alcoholics, drug addicts, thieves and adulterers if they’re gay.
MattF
@Comrade Dread: Well, people believe all sorts of odd things. The question is whether her religion gives her a right to defy Federal law. The answer is ‘No.’
Cacti
Next step:
Order to show cause re Contempt from the US District Court to Ms. Davis.
OzarkHillbilly
Wow. I have a religious right to be a County Clerk. Well pop my corns, I’m a headin’ to Potosi to assert my Constitushional rights!!!
Culture of Truth
Are county taxes optional too?
NorthLeft12
@MattF: Thanks, for some reason I just believed that they threw you in jail because that’s all they were able to do. Probably from watching too many TV shows about lawyers/judges.
burnspbesq
The stay that Judge Bunning entered runs out next Tuesday. After that, if she continues to disobey his order, I would expect an order to show cause re contempt to be issued, and a hearing to be put on calendar, in pretty short order.
ETA: It would be 31 flavors of awesome if that hearing could be televised, or at least live-blogged. It’s likely to be quite a circus.
Comrade Dread
@MattF: True. I suppose I’m just trying to understand the logic there. As an ex-fundie, I’m familiar with the mindset, and I don’t think I could put together a biblical argument for why they should refuse to obey the law.
Neither Jesus, nor John the Baptist told the Roman soldiers or tax collectors to quit or refuse to do their jobs, they just told them basically, “Hey, do your job, but don’t hurt anyone.” And the only time we see the apostles ever defying the authorities is when the religious authorities supposedly told them not to preach their message.
So I suspect this is less a religious belief and more of a ‘ew’ reaction or a simple tantrum because they lost and don’t like the outcome.
Regardless, I agree with those that say that the Federal judge needs to slap her down and slap her down hard. We have too many rebels running around in this nation as it is. We need to stop rewarding and tolerating outright rebellion.
qwerty42
These folks are hyperventilating and convincing themselves that they are the “real victims” and are being “persecuted” for not doing their jobs. There are a bunch of “conservatives” who are willing to fan this fire. Anyone remember how well it worked out for the folks whose objection to the war in Vietnam was such they deducted its per individual cost from their taxes? The Feds didn’t see it their way and no matter how sincere, they could not do it.
fidelio
Luckily for those devoted public officials stuck on the horns of this dilemma, their holy texts show a clear way out.
And when they were come, they say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not? 15Shall we give, or shall we not give? But he, knowing their hypocrisy, said unto them, Why tempt ye me? bring me a penny, that I may see it. 16And they brought it. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? And they said unto him, Caesar’s. 17And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s. (Mark 12:14-17)
16And they sent out unto him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, Master, we know that thou art true, and teachest the way of God in truth, neither carest thou for any man: for thou regardest not the person of men. 17Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not? 18But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites? 19Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny. 20And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? 21They say unto him, Caesar’s. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s. (Matthew 22:16-21)
21And they asked him, saying, Master, we know that thou sayest and teachest rightly, neither acceptest thou the person of any, but teachest the way of God truly: 22Is it lawful for us to give tribute unto Caesar, or no? 23But he perceived their craftiness, and said unto them, Why tempt ye me? 24Shew me a penny. Whose image and superscription hath it? They answered and said, Caesar’s. 25And he said unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar’s, and unto God the things which be God’s. (Luke 20:21-25)
So that’s it, three times over. I would find it entertaining were the federal court to cite those verses in the contempt citation.
I favor the fines over the imprisonment, as jail time will make them that much more a set of pitiful martyrs to the faith. Regrettably, leaving them free to roam the streets means they can keep whining to the media, but it seems the lesser of two evils.
PhoenixRising
@Comrade Dread: I am not a Christian, but I am somewhat cognizant of the teachings of Jesus, a historical figure who led a(nother) small rebellion against Roman rule in Palestine roughly 2000 years ago.
And they’re totally correct; working a government job is a violation of the most fundamental precepts of Christianity, a religion launched by a martyr who led his band of rebels to a government building, armed, to kill people and break shit in the name of their beliefs about the roles of government and religion.
I look forward to seeing more Christians come to this realization and follow their beliefs right out the doors of the courthouses, jails, schools and zoning offices where they work for Caesar.
Cacti
@NorthLeft12:
There are varying types and levels of contempt of Court also, including civil vs. criminal, and indirect vs. direct.
Civil contempt sanctions are coercive but have a remedial objective, in that sanctions are lifted immediately when the party in contempt obeys the Court’s order.
Criminal contempt sanctions are punitive and without guarantee of relief.
Comrade Dread
@fidelio: The problem I see with fines is that they will probably have GoFundMe pages up in 30 minutes overflowing with cash from the people who believe that they are being persecuted for their faith.
PhoenixRising
Also, is one of these counties the home of Paint Lick, KY?
It’s my favorite down-home name. Explains too much.
Baud
@Comrade Dread:
Judges order can prevent her from taking advantage of donations.
gvg
What I want to know is if her pay can be stopped. I understand that she can’t be removed because she is elected (they, there are 2 of them both named Davis). I also wonder who does her job if she has a medical emergency etc, so if she is jailed, does everything still remain stuck or does it start moving. Fines are all very well, but I resent paying salary to people who don’t do jobs. Also does her deputy feel like going to jail too etc.
Problem with stopping pay or fines is gofundme things.
lgerard
@PaulW:
i believe that the state law requires that the elected Clerk of the county sign all marriage licenses…it is not something that anyone else in the Clerk’s office can do.
If the Clerk is incapacitated (hopefully by being in jail), I believe that the county court then becomes the issuing authority for marriage licenses.
Origuy
@NorthLeft12:
You’re in Canada, right? I’m in California; my ballots have included President, Senator, Representative, State Senator, State Representative, Governor, Lt. Governor, Secretary of State, Attorney General, Superintendent of Schools, State Board of Equalization (state taxes), Controller, elementary school board, high school board, community college board, municipal judges, superior court judges, water district, county supervisor, city supervisor, mayor, city propositions, county propositions, state propositions, and a bunch of others I can’t remember.
RSA
@Neal Peart:
Of course not!
Oops, @Hal beat me to this.
Omnes Omnibus
For those arguing that Beshears needs to do something, he isn’t her boss. Elected county clerks work for the county not the state. Contempt proceedings in federal court are the way this will play out and those are in process.
A Ghost To Most
@PhoenixRising:
I like French Lick, IN (hometown of Larry Bird) better
kc
I hope the court orders her to pay every dime of the other side’s attorney’s fees and costs.
kc
Moderation?
NorthLeft12
@Origuy: Yes, Canadian. It takes all of three minutes to vote. And that includes chatting with the person crossing my name off the list.
So when I hear some of my fellow Canadians complaining about it being too much trouble to vote, I know that they are just plain lazy and ignorant. There is no excuse not to vote up here.
Patrick
@RSA:
So marriage license for someone who has been divorced is between them and God. But a gay couple that’s wants to get married is not. This woman is yet another “Christian” hypocrite.
I take it she overlooked the scripture that talked about “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her”.
kdaug
Occasionally, I want to test these folk’s faith in the law of gravity. Probably just me.
kc
Okay, why am I in moderation?
Calouste
@Origuy: I have two positions I’m allowed to vote for every 4-5 years, national parliament and European parliament. To make up for that, every position has somewhere between 400 and 800 candidates.
kdaug
@JDM:
Ain’t reprehensible. It’s a fucking masterstroke. Gotta give credit to the grifters for a job well done.
trollhattan
I presume she’s cashing her (damn large for that part of the country) paycheck and happily spending it on halal colas, reefer, ammo and such while refusing to do her damn job. Can I go to work at Hobby Lobby and demand they allow me to follow my coven’s strict guidance to hand out Plan B pills to every female customer? How dare they prevent me from practicing my religion? This is America.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Patrick:
She heard that only someone without sin could throw the stone, so she threw that #}*%*er!
/”Bloom County” reference
RaflW
Pro tip: If you are worried about going to hell for the things you do on the job, don’t be an elected official. Of any sort, rank, or office.
kdaug
@NorthLeft12:
They seem to be awfully quiet
Mustang Bobby
@kdaug: It’s not gravity. It’s “intelligent falling.”
Omnes Omnibus
@kdaug: That’s rather the point.
Roger Moore
@Howard Beale IV:
Sure they can; they just don’t want to do it in public. They think their religious rights include the right to enforce their religious views on everyone else, but that’s obviously not something they want to say out loud because it would cause problems with the establishment clause.
Mustang Bobby
I say we set a Gofundme account to send her a crown of thorns.
Peale
@Brachiator: No. Not a marriage licence. Only women trying to sign up for WIC are asked those kinds of questions.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@kdaug:
Well, yeah, because the quiet ones are the ones who are going ahead and issuing licenses regardless of their personal beliefs. I doubt that Davis is the only professed Christian who was elected to county clerk in Kentucky, and they don’t seem to be having this problem in the rest of the state. It’s always easier to notice the loudmouth asshole than the person who quietly does their job.
OzarkHillbilly
@A Ghost To Most: Don’t forget Peculiar, MO.
trollhattan
@Origuy:
My 2014 ballot was s large it took two stamps to mail it in. It was YOOUGE! and frankly, some of the propositions and judicial seats and utility board seats are strictly dart-tossing items.
A Ghost To Most
@Omnes Omnibus:
Yea, the quiet xians let the noisy ones do their dirty work for them. Rather convenient.
Roger Moore
@Comrade Dread:
You just aren’t trying hard enough. I can think of two off the top of my head. The first is based on “render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s and render unto God that which is God’s”, with the claim being that marriage is a religious matter rather than a secular matter, so she has to obey her religious dictates. The second is a variant but based on “No man can serve two masters”, again with God and the government being the two masters. I don’t think either of those is a valid argument- by serving as a government official, she has obviously agreed to serve Caesar and treat civil marriages as a civil matter, so the Bible is telling her to obey civil law or resign- but I can easily imagine somebody making those arguments.
kdaug
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): Roger that.
catclub
@Nick:
I think County Clerk is fairly remunerative, given the number of candidates for the job. They often get a bit of the fees they impose.
Citizen Alan
@Hal:
Really?!? Oh, please somebody confirm this! I might explode with joy if this raging hypocrite has actually defied Jesus’s strongly worded injunction against divorce that many times.
Belafon
I don’t think your governor can do anything. They’re elected officials. A judge could order them thrown in jail – which could then be enforced by the governor – or the legislature would have to impeach them.
Origuy
@NorthLeft12: I was in Nova Scotia last week. I caught a few ads on TV. The Conservatives’ whole campaign seems to be that Justin Trudeau is wet behind the ears.
rea
@Bobby Thomson:”the judge has summary contempt power to convict her and sentence her to up to six months without a jury trial.”
Wrong kind of contempt–we need not criminal but civil contempt, under which she gets jailed until she purges herself of contempt, either by complying with the order or resigning. If she won’t do either, she cans stay in jail until her term expires, or she dies. Meanwhile, issue an order to he next deputy, and repeat the process da capo
Roger Moore
@trollhattan:
My rule of thumb for the judicial seats is to vote against the person who tries harder to make themselves sound tough on crime, e.g. the candidate who lists their current job as “Criminal Gang Homicide Prosecutor”. With ballot measures, if I can’t make up my mind I’ll default to no for initiatives and yes for referenda.
Ksmiami
@kdaug: standing at the edge of Bryce or other suitably high testing grounds— Amirite?
celticdragonchick
@Roger Moore:
That has been Rod Dreher’s entire schtick: “My religious rights are violated by not being allowed to subjugate you!”
Jeffro
@rea:
Excellent explanation, thank you.
Omnes Omnibus
@A Ghost To Most: Oh, bullshit.
Eric S.
@Neal Peart:
An honest question from a lifelong atheist. Is divorce considered a sin across Christian denomination the same as it is in Catholicism?
Botsplainer
@catclub:
In rural counties like Rowan (the only neat thing being Morehead State University), the office of the county clerk is one of the big local patronage mills (the others being the office of the circuit court clerk, the sheriff’s office and the county school superintendent). The reason why Kentucky has 120 counties (all of the small ones refusing to consolidate on their own, even with the existence of an incentive program) is the existence of these fountains of family and crony patronage.
A guy in the office used to have supervisory capacity with the Attorney General’s public integrity unit. He cracked me up with a tale about one county clerk that didn’t even bother with an official checking account – he simply walked around with all of the cash from filings, etc. in his pockets, and how he’d take the staff to lunches and dinners out courtesy of those fees.
Steve in the ATL
@gvg:
I concur, with the notable exception that it’s cool for my company to pay me while I’m on Balloon juice
low-tech cyclist
If a particular job involves doing work that compromises your religious beliefs, then you either quit your job or compromise your beliefs.
I don’t see that this is any less true if your job is an elected position that you ran for and got voted into.
There’s no First Amendment right that the essential work of a job be modified to suit one’s religious beliefs.
low-tech cyclist
@delk:
Wonder if she’s ever said “there must be some way out of here” to her daughter.
Who knew? They must have the extra-special version that’s only about abortion and gays. And the Rapture, of course.
Mike J
@Eric S.:
Not even homosexuality is considered a sin by all denominations.
Roger Moore
@low-tech cyclist:
There isn’t now, but that is very much the long-term goal of the people pushing this crap. They want a broad religious exemption to generally applicable laws- where “religious” is understood to apply only to people who believe about the same things they do. I doubt they’ll be very happy when an Orthodox Jew says that his religious beliefs call for mandatory abortion when the mother’s life is in danger, and that overrides all their anti-abortion laws.
Just One More Canuck
@PhoenixRising: @OzarkHillbilly: @A Ghost To Most: the province of Newfoundland up here has all sorts of great place names, including Conception Bay, Come By Chance, and, especially for Suzanne, Dildo
lgerard
@efgoldman:
Hey it’s Kentucky!
The County Clerk’s name is on all licenses issued in the county. There is a provision for the County Court to step in as issuer if the Clerk is not able to perform his/her function, but exactly what triggers that I am not sure of.
I know the 2 gentlemen attempted to get the County Court to issue them a license, but the Court Clerk had to decline, even though she was quite upset about not being able to help. as whatever circumstance that triggers their authority had not kicked in yet,
A Ghost To Most
@Omnes Omnibus:
Oh well, if you say it’s bullshit, then that settles it. Xians would never let others do their dirty work for them.
boatboy_srq
@fidelio: Impoverishment over imprisonment. The perversion of PWE that’s currently taught and the Prosperity Gospel both teach that wealth is a sign of blessedness: take the wealth away and they are wrong, convicted AND unBlessed all at once. Poorer wingnuts can’t fund Reichwing pols anywhere near so well. And last if the fines go to county/state coffers that’s a few dollars that can do some good somewhere else.
lgerard
Even drivers licenses are signed by the local County Clerk in Kentucky
A strange anachronism
Calouste
@Just One More Canuck: Those don’t beat Saint-Louis-du-Ha!-Ha!
Uncle Cosmo
@Just One More Canuck:
If Suzanne is Francophone, that’s D’Île d’Eau, n’est-ce pas?
bystander
@Zinsky: Best idea. Neat, clean and win-win.
NorthLeft12
@Origuy: Yes, that and the NDP are scary socialists, forgetting that Canadians actually love their social programs. But the bastards get elected! Don’t ask me how, I am far too biased to think straight on the subject of conservatives.
Extra bonus chutzpah points to the Cons for claiming that we need to stay the course with their wise financial management…..while we head into a second recession under their leadership.
satby
@Mike J: in fact being homosexual isn’t a sin in the Catholic church, but sex outside of marriage and the intent to procreate is.
RSA
@Patrick:
Exactly. I know good people, some liberal, some conservative, who have caught themselves in the realization, “Wait a minute, I’ve done the same thing I’m condemning,” and they rethink. People who don’t do that? Grow up…
Uncle Cosmo
@Hal: Married four times, in KY. All cousins, I take it?
Uncle Cosmo
Married 4 times, in KY…all cousins, I take it?
yodecat
Hey! Why don’t you move out of that place? We’d welcome you here in far SW Oregon! It’s beautiful and there are some really nice folk here.
Steve from Antioch
What is the actual remedy here? Contempt?
Uncle Cosmo
@Steve from Antioch: Sounds about right. Fine of, say, $500/day (something over twice her salary), enjoined by the Court from accepting donations. Or jail time, with the Court directing the County Court to issue marriage licenses while she’s prevented from doing so by cooling her heels in the slammer. Then again, why not both??
PhoenicianRomans
@shell: They can;t fire her cause its an elected position.
Then fine the County on a daily basis until they comply. If the electorate is responsible for this nidnook, then let the electorate see themselves suffer as a result.
khead
My favorite response to situations like this one.
http://www.flowerhorne.com/blog/2013/11/26/get-your-fake-conscience-objections-off-my-lawn
Ruckus
@Roger Moore:
I read the initiatives and referenda very closely to see if the title and the proposal actually say the same thing. Frequently the title is there to get you to think one way and the proposal does exactly the opposite. This also sometimes lets me see what’s what. Of course other times you have to do a lot of research to see what the real intent is but my first piece of info is who wrote it and possibly who is supporting it. In our current politics who is supporting it can tell you a lot.
Ruckus
@satby:
Wouldn’t that pretty much take care of gay sex, there is no intent to procreate?
Hunter
@Mike J: Apparently, the County Clerk is the only one who can sign the license.
What makes this so egregious is that all her signature means is she’s verifying that the information provided by the couple is accurate. The idea that somehow this indicates her “approval” is indicative of a gargantuan ego, with marked sociopathic tendencies.
Paul in KY
@Hunter: She’s a fucking Pharisee. She will have to be dragged kicking & screaming from that 80 grand job. She’s one of the richest people in that God-forsaken county (which is very pretty sceanic-wise) & will do whatever she can to hang on.
That’s why a big daily fine & jail will hopefully give her a ‘Road to Damascus’ moment.