The Trumping Of Compassion

As The Donald keeps saying, “We gotta take our country back.”

The homeless man was lying on the ground, shaking, when police arrived early Wednesday. His face was soaked, apparently with urine, his nose broken, his chest and arms battered.

Police said two brothers from South Boston ambushed the 58-year-old as he slept outside of a Dorchester MBTA stop, and targeted him because he is Hispanic. One of the brothers said he was inspired in part by GOP presidential candidate Donald Trump.

This will end well.

Trump, told of the alleged assault, said “it would be a shame . . . I will say that people who are following me are very passionate. They love this country and they want this country to be great again. They are passionate.”

Other “passionate” things include rabid wolverines, angry mobs, and racist beatings administered by a couple of assholes from Southie.

Alerted by witnesses, troopers arrested the brothers, and said the men continued to be disorderly in custody. Steve Leader allegedly urinated on his cell door, and both brothers allegedly made threats to staff members.

Police said Scott Leader, 38, told them it was OK to assault the man because he was Hispanic and homeless.

Donald Trump was right, all these illegals need to be deported,” he allegedly told the police.

Whether or not you think Trump is a colossal cosmic joke inflicted on the body politic, the hatred he’s stoking is very real, and has very real consequences.  This is apparently what Trump’s campaign is inspiring in some people, and I’m only surprised that it took this long to manifest.

“Making America greatly racist again” is a hell of a campaign slogan, Donny.






224 replies
  1. 1
    WereBear says:

    I just find it hard to single out Trump when every Republican candidate for the last fifteen years has been an immigrant basher.

  2. 2
    Zandar says:

    Oh Trump is far from alone.

    He’s just the one taking the training wheels off the hatred and leading the pack because of it.

  3. 3
    Lavocat says:

    However, it is Trump – and Trump alone – who is going out of his way to make this sort of thing not only mainstream, but paradoxically respectable. Trump is getting close to asking his followers to start chanting “Ein Volk!”.

  4. 4
    Sherparick says:

    Let’s take the Country back to 1860 has always been at the heart of “Tea Partyism.” I think right now it is a dead certainty that repeal or at least amending the 14th Amendment to eliminate birth right citizenship will be in the “Republican” (e.g. Neo-Confederate Party) platform for 2016.

  5. 5
    SteveinSC says:

    Drumpf (aka Trump) said on Scarface he’s going to Mobile (that’s Moh-beel to you yankees) and is expecting more than 30,000 gawkers. If he draws that many or more, he will have completely thrown the Republican presidential selection process into actual turmoil: Some loud-mouthed, New Yawka, some-time liberal, entertainer (vide Reagan) will have a real chance to take most of the redneck primaries in the whole South.

  6. 6
    cahuenga says:

    Pretty sure Trump is doing our work for us. He will flameout spectacularly wbnile drawkng attention to along the way. hopefully

  7. 7
    Matt McIrvin says:

    One of these guys has a previous hate-crime conviction for beating up an insufficiently white person, so it’s not as if it manifested just now. Still, Trump’s plugged himself into something big and ugly and has to be taken to account for it.

  8. 8
    TheMightyTrowel says:

    Read the rest of the article: side spent a year in jail for attacking a Moroccan man in a Dunkies after Sept 11. This is the sort of violent shit for brains who uses eliminationist rhetoric as a sheild.

    Asshole republicans are giving him and others like him an excuse and I’m sure they’re not so secretly pleased. Passionate indeed.

  9. 9
    JMG says:

    Truth is, this is probably a position with majority support. Survey after survey in my lifetime (I’m 65) shows that most Americans disapprove of parts of the Constitution, Bill of Rights especially, that give rights to people other than themselves.

  10. 10
    NorthLeft12 says:

    And this episode is surprising because…………..exactly what?

    There is a lot of sickness here, but what really elevates the odiousness of this story [IMO] is how these two douchebags acquired the ability to determine who illegal immigrants are on sight.

    I would be interested to know how far the justice system will go in prosecuting these two dangerous thugs. You could make a case that it is a hate crime. Not sure how severe the beating was but could it be construed as attempted murder? Even their behavior in custody should warrant an extra charge or two.

    My cynical side fully expects that these two will claim they were under the influence, the guy said something offensive to them, they are really fine upstanding gentlemen with jobs and families, and have never done this before, and never will again, blah, blah, blah and get this reduced down to jail time served and probation.
    Assuming these two dipsticks are white of course.

  11. 11
    debbie says:

    @WereBear:

    Not surprised at the Southies, but they were only enacting the GOP’s immigration policy. Of course, the GOP will insist that figurative violence in no way results in actual violence.

  12. 12
  13. 13
    NorthLeft12 says:

    @NorthLeft12: Kudos to Matt M. and TMT for pointing out the past history of these felons. How can they not throw the book at these two “passionate” morans?

  14. 14
    Patrick says:

    @Zandar:

    Amen. Look at the abuse Obama has taken simply for being black. Read the comments to most articles in a newspaper and you find a surprising number of commenters who are not shy about being proud of being bigots.

    It is easy to just blame Trump. But in reality, this has been going on for longer than that. Let’s not give a free pass to FoxNews and the other haters.

  15. 15
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    “Well, what’s wrong with slavery?”

    A conservative radio host in Iowa said that instead of deporting undocumented immigrants, state officials should push to make them “property,” Media Matters reported.

    Jan Mickelson said he took inspiration from Arizona Sheriff Joe Arpaio for the idea, which would involve putting immigrants into “tent cities” if they did not follow a deadline to leave the state.

  16. 16
    BGinCHI says:

    American exceptionalism:

    Exceptionally xenophobic

    Exceptionally fucking stupid

    Exceptionally mindless of consequences

    Exceptionally Sodom & Gomorrah

  17. 17
    Yatsuno says:

    You know who else had passionate followers? Pol Pot. We all know how that ended. And Cambodia still hasn’t recovered.

    @OzarkHillbilly: There was a big thread about that last night.

  18. 18
    MattF says:

    @Matt McIrvin: It’s not as though racism and xenophobia are unheard of in Boston. I doubt, in particular, that local reporting of anti-Hispanic incidents would have gone much beyond ‘boys will be boys’ without Trump’s incitement.

    Of course, I’m not saying that incitement is a good thing, just that having it in your face is a problem that Republicans richly deserve.

  19. 19
    Betty Cracker says:

    Honestly, I’m surprised it took this long after the crash for anti-immigrant fever to manifest as the key driver of conservative politics. I suppose we have the more pragmatic Republicans to thank for the delay — the ones who want to remain a viable party long-term and continue exploiting cheap labor. They tamped down the xenophobic mob as long as they could. Now someone they can’t control has unleashed it. But there’s nothing remotely new about the sentiment.

  20. 20
    C.V. Danes says:

    We’ve become a country where torture became official policy and the public basically just shrugged when it was exposed. I’m not much surprised any longer by the moral depravity of the ‘average’ American.

  21. 21
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Yatsuno: Ahh… Never even checked yesterdays threads this morn. Oh well.

  22. 22
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @Lavocat: Make no mistake. That’s what he really means when he says, “we either have a country or we don’t.”

  23. 23
    Kay says:

    This was smart:

    Democratic White House hopeful Martin O’Malley attempted a little showmanship of his own here Wednesday: He staged a news conference in front of Donald Trump’s gold-plated hotel tower to voice solidarity with workers there trying to unionize, and to knock the Republican front-runner on immigration.
    “There are a couple of things that Donald Trump doesn’t understand,” O’Malley said, before decrying the business mogul’s unwillingness to allow the hotel workers, many of them Latino, to join a powerful union here.

    “I want to say that all of these workers here have a lot more guts than the candidates running for president for the Republican nomination,” O’Malley said. “They have the courage to stand up to the hate, to the division, to the sort of rhetoric that actually makes it harder for us to make our economy grow and work well for all Americans.”

    That union is 55% Latino. It’s good on so many levels- it turns around the script Trump is using and focuses on work and wages- right to Trump’s faux “populism”- and I’m much more comfortable with slamming him on that with the actual people affected rather than begging him and his fans for “compassion” or whatever. I’m going to take another look at O’Malley just on this alone. I think he probably takes more risk because he’s so far back but it’s nice to see someone on the offensive.

  24. 24
    debbie says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    It’s not old news to me. It’s by far the most despicable thing I’ve heard from conservatives.

  25. 25
    debbie says:

    @Kay:

    Hey, Kay, do you think this will cost Kasich the moderate middle?

    Kasich: ‘If I were king in America, I would abolish all teachers lounges where they sit together and worry about how woe is us’

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....0019533013

  26. 26
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @debbie: “There is nothing new under the sun.”

  27. 27
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @cahuenga: Don’t kid yourself. Quite a few people in this country would vote for gas chambers if given the opportunity, and he will get at least 60% of the white vote in the general election even with or perhaps because of an explicitly racist campaign. If he is the nominee I don’t think the Republican party can win another presidential election without rebranding, but he will draw out the mouth breathers for House elections.

  28. 28
    WereBear says:

    Let me elucidate: I am not letting Trump escape any blame, because he deserves much.

    I’m just saying his words fall on fertile ground.

  29. 29
    Tommy says:

    Oh Trump will totally “flame” out as many here noted. I didn’t think it would happen yesterday as many of the “experts” in the media said. Trump has “staying” power at least for a few more months,

    I mean let’s just be blunt. He has tapped into a hate, anger, and yes open racism we all knew was there for ages. That I’ve always felt was about 22-28% of the population, which seems to be just what his polling numbers show his support currently is.

    Many on the right have used this “hate” for years and years to get elected and raise tons of money. Trump has IMHO kind of just taken it to the logical end game which is not even really speaking in “code” or using “dog whistles,” but just coming out and saying what many people think.

  30. 30
    Immanentize says:

    @NorthLeft12: just an interesting rid bit about Massachusetts criminal law: at a minimum, the two will be charged with “assault and battery with a deadly weapon, to wit, a shod foot.” Yes a shoe is a deadly weapon up here in beantown.

  31. 31
    rikyrah says:

    Good Morning, Everyone :)

  32. 32
    Tommy says:

    @WereBear: I often joke/note here my parents are not the raging liberals I am. Mom came to our side with Obama but dad still votes Republican.

    We talk politics a ton, but I’d say more than 90% of the time I bring up the topic/start the conversation. Not with Trump. The last times we’ve talked they often saying something like, “we know you follow politics Tommy, WTF, WTF, WTF is up with Trump leading in the polls?” How could anybody like much less support and/or vote for this yahoo?!

    I am like he is appealing to the racist and loser part of your party. You ready to see that maybe my party isn’t perfect, but we’d never put up with shit like this from somebody.

  33. 33
    Oatler. says:

    He literally owns the media now. Reminds me of Keith Moon’s song in Tommy:
    The camp with the difference
    Never mind the weather
    When you vote for Donny the holiday’s forever!

    We know what the crowd did to Donny.

  34. 34
    Cervantes says:

    @Immanentize:

    They also used a metal pipe.

    The brothers walked away from the scene laughing, a witness told State Police.

    We’ll see who gets the last laugh.

  35. 35
    EconWatcher says:

    This crime is monstrous, and Donald Trump has shown himself to be a colossal jerk.

    Howevever, I didn’t care for that ellipsis in the quotation from Trump. What did he say after “it would be a shame”? Was he really referring to the scum who beat that poor guy when he later referred to his “passionate followers”?

    Maybe he was, but the ellipses leave me wondering whether two separated comments are being misleadingly mashed together. No matter how big a jerk the speaker is, that shouldn’t happen. You see it way too much.

    (I know that the Boston Globe, rather than our Zandar, inserted the ellipsis, and there’s no way to tell from the original article what was omitted.)

  36. 36
    rikyrah says:

    a link that will make your ovaries ache and say,

    ” I want one”

    LOL

    https://twitter.com/Lilblackbabies

  37. 37
    gene108 says:

    @WereBear:

    I just find it hard to single out Trump when every Republican candidate for the last fifteen years has been an immigrant basher.

    There’s not a lot that was good about George W. Bush, but he at least tried be as inclusive as possible for any modern Republican.

    He actually wanted comprehensive immigration reform, which Republicans in Congress killed.

    He did not race bait, like his dad, when he ran for office. And, yes I know he went into gay bashing, in 2004, and scared the pants off of little old ladies, who were already inclined to think Muslim terrorists were going to invade Middle-of-Nowhere, OK, but he never went down the Willy Horton trail.

    He also made it a point to have a diverse Cabinet, though those appointees were not always good for the country, they were not a crop of white men.

    Too bad his fellow Republicans decided this was one of his major problems.

  38. 38
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Immanentize: A shoe is a deadly weapon everywhere when it’s on the wrong foot.

  39. 39
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Immanentize:
    Well, it is certainly possible to inflict serious injury with a shod foot. And some kinds of footwear have greater injury-inflicting potential than others, e.g. steel-toed work boots c.f. ballet slippers.

  40. 40
    WereBear says:

    And call me a Pollyanna (and you won’t be the first) but a lot of the “horrible American” polling is driven by pundits who want to act like they represent America, and so the nation they reflect is, of necessity, mean, nasty, brutish, and short-tempered.

    I’ve found that a great many people were horrified by the torture, and even the rah-rah types are given pause when I rhetorically corner them on the subject.

    Most people are just uninformed, or even lower than the average intelligence. (Half of them are!) But not actually cruel.

  41. 41
    Cervantes says:

    @MattF:

    It’s not as though racism and xenophobia are unheard of in Boston. I doubt, in particular, that local reporting of anti-Hispanic incidents would have gone much beyond ‘boys will be boys’ without Trump’s incitement.

    I’m not sure why you doubt that.

    Did you see previous incidents in Boston reported along the lines of “boys will be boys”? If so, please cite.

  42. 42
    WereBear says:

    @Tommy: Good on ya!

  43. 43
    WereBear says:

    @gene108: I guess you have described why he is considered a liberal now.

  44. 44
    Cervantes says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    That should be “cf.” as it comes from one (Latin) word.

    (I figure you appreciate the information. Most could not care less.)

  45. 45
    MattF says:

    @Cervantes: What I doubt, specifically, is that it would have been reported at all without the reference to Trump. I understand (as, I assume, you do) that one can’t cite a lack of evidence as evidence for anything, so I can’t prove that.

  46. 46
    Cervantes says:

    @gene108:

    [George W. Bush] did not race bait, like his dad, when he ran for office.

    We could ask John McCain and his daughter about that.

  47. 47
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @gene108: Credit where credit is due.

  48. 48
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Cervantes:
    I do. Thank you for the correction.

  49. 49
    hoodie says:

    Thing is, this kind of “passion” was disorganized and spread across the GOP field. It may have found a focal point with Trump, who has stumbled upon the power of pure assholism at a point when the appetite for it is heightened. He is a big enough meglomaniac to start taking his chances seriously, and the electorate he attracts is not big on requiring policy papers. All he needs is a balcony.

    I sometimes worry about a third party run that most Dems assume will benefit Hillary. There is a non-vanishing possibility of a Le Page event if the GOP nominates someone like Bush and Trump actually decides to build an independent organization using a combination of volunteer and paid goons, as he wouldn’t have much trouble financing it using his own funds and collections from the same idiots who buy his books. In such a scenario, Bush gets the non-fascist Republicans and the Hillary hate vote among the conservadems, Hillary gets the lion’s share of the women’s and minority vote (which is low turnout among Hispanics), and Trump wins with something like 34% from the fascist rump and the WWE audience. He ends up backed by a mouthbreather GOP Congress that will be all too willing to jump on the bandwagon. Probably not very likely, but not impossible.

  50. 50
    Cervantes says:

    @MattF:

    Sure, but a plausible reason for your expressed doubt might have been that you saw previous incidents in Boston reported along the lines of “boys will be boys.” From your response I gather you have not seen any such reporting — which is a relief. Thanks.

  51. 51
    Joel says:

    Trump, told of the alleged assault, said “it would be a shame . . . I will say that people who are following me are very passionate. They love this country and they want this country to be great again. They are passionate.”

    Buzz fucking Windrip, everyone.

  52. 52
    srv says:

    Bostonites have been beating foreigners since the political leaders there turned the Pope Night brawls into killing Redcoats.

    Just another example of how only violence brings change.

  53. 53
    Joel says:

    @David Koch: Twelve posts before the reference to “The Soiling of Old Glory”. Lagging, folks.

    I think if anything, the fact that shit like this happens in Boston indicates that vile racist bullshit has a home with 40+ percent of people in just about anywhere you go in this country.

  54. 54
    Tommy says:

    @gene108: It is hard to wrap your mind isn’t it. Even more so when two of those running are children of recent immigrants.

    I often say I am an immigrant. Sure my family came here in the 1870s from Scotland, but I still consider myself the child of immigrants. But Cruz and Rubio are in FACT children of immigrants.

    I know why they say the things they do, but I will never really “understand” it.

  55. 55
    PurpleGirl says:

    Trump has a number of concession contracts with NYC, i.e., the Wohlman Skating Rink, a golf course in the Bronx among others. The City Council is now exploring ways to break the contracts because of his remarks about Mexicans. He’s already claimed it’s a first amendment issue. We’ll see what happens.

    ETA: I woke up early; think I’m going back to bed.

  56. 56
    jayackroyd says:

    @cahuenga: No, he’s doing immense damage. I’ve always feared a rightwing nativist populist.

    There are solid majorities in the country for a traditional liberal agenda–roads, education, social security, a decent minimum wage etc.

    But those majorities will splinter if a right wing populist scoops up the nativists in the bottom two quintiles.

  57. 57
    Knowbody says:

    Hey guys?

    Where was your outrage over the consequences of American politicians appealing to the demons of xenophobia, paranoia and rah-rah nationalism when Obama was killing fucking kids with drones and spying on tens of millions of us?

    Fuck every one of you shitbirds.

  58. 58
    Tommy says:

    @WereBear: How about it. The core, far left of our party, is currently fighting over if Bernie Sanders is supportive enough of African Americans. Dude has a perfect, 100% rating from the NAACP.

    With immigration and groups like Black Life Matters, not sure if there is anything that highlights the profound difference between the core of each of our political parties.

  59. 59
    Belafon says:

    @Joel:

    I think if anything, the fact that shit like this happens in Boston indicates that vile racist bullshit has a home with 40+ percent of people in just about anywhere you go in this country.

    Which is what the BLM group in Seattle was pointing out. The supposedly liberal north western city is anything but when it comes to race.

  60. 60
    Cervantes says:

    @srv:

    Bostonites have been beating foreigners since the political leaders there turned the Pope Night brawls into killing Redcoats.

    Just another example of how only violence brings change.

    In a way your first sentence belies the second.

  61. 61
    PurpleGirl says:

    @JMG: The main body of the Constitution is an outline of a government structure. That’s why they came back later with the Amendments to delineate rights. I don’t think most people understand just what the Constitution is, or the Bill of Rights or understand/know about what we follow that follows English Common Law. (Or that Lousiana follows the Code Napoleon.)

  62. 62
    EconWatcher says:

    I think the usual approach in national campaigns is to do a lot of polling before taking firm positions on dangerous issues. But Trump has his Republican opponents so rattled, they’re reacting to him rather than weighing the real costs and benefits of the positions they take.

    Has anyone attempted to gauge how many votes they lose by attacking birthright citzenship? I’ll bet they haven’t, and I’ll bet the losses will be colossal. Romney’s self-deportation comment sounds positively benign compared to eliminating birthright citizenship.

    Trump may be doing for Republicans nationally what Pete Wilson did for them in California.

  63. 63
    Cervantes says:

    @Knowbody:

    Where was your outrage over the consequences of American politicians appealing to the demons of xenophobia, paranoia and rah-rah nationalism when Obama was killing fucking kids with drones and spying on tens of millions of us?

    I have objected to that more than you know.

    Fuck every one of you shitbirds.

    Gesundheit!

  64. 64
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Cervantes: You’re in metro Boston. Tell me you’re surprised at these douchebags.

  65. 65
    Tommy says:

    @Belafon: Larry Wilmore has a few BLM people on his show the other day. I will openly admit I am kind of torn about some of their tactics as it relates to Sanders or at Netroots Nation.

    One of them said something that made me rethink my thinking somewhat.

    He said when somebody, always white, says all lives matter, that is only as a rebuttal to us saying “black lives matter.” No white person is running around saying all lives matter until we bring up the basic and straightforward topic that black lives matter and we’re sick of our people getting killed.

    I was pretty much totally behind BLM before hearing that, now I am all in 110%.

  66. 66
    MomSense says:

    @rikyrah:

    Oh my! The little girl who fell asleep sitting down? Such a cutie. I miss those sweet, baby and toddler days.

  67. 67
    Tommy says:

    @PurpleGirl: LOL. Very true. As a person that has lived in Louisiana for a few years I am always stunned that most Americans don’t realize we have a state in our nation that to a large extent follows a legal framework the rest of the nation does not, where legal precedent isn’t the law. It is of course more complex than that, but clearly different than the other 49 states!

  68. 68
    Belafon says:

    @Knowbody:

    Where was your outrage over the consequences of American politicians appealing to the demons of xenophobia, paranoia and rah-rah nationalism when Obama was killing fucking kids with drones and spying on tens of millions of us?

    Hey, shithead. There was plenty of outrage here over both of those. Go crawl back in your rat infested basement and get back to playing your games so you can be a hero to some imaginary person.

  69. 69
    Cervantes says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Tell me you’re surprised at these douchebags.

    Whether I’m surprised or not has nothing to do with the comment about how incidents like this are reported.

    But am I surprised? In a way I’m more than surprised; I’m shocked, yet again, to see how disgusting human behavior can be. The details are shocking. But surprised? Not sure about that.

    And on the other hand if you had asked me a priori where in Boston I might expect to see such behavior, Southie would certainly and shamefully be high on the list.

  70. 70
    Belafon says:

    @Tommy: You might like this comment on reddit about the phrase “all lives matter.”

  71. 71

    People seem to be less ashamed of saying racist, xenophobic things because of the encouragement conservative politicians and media people give. They at least need to feel it’s not socially acceptable. Social disapproval can curb some, though obviously not all, hateful behavior.

  72. 72
    shell says:

    Ya might want to rethink that word ‘passionate’, Donald…

    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

    I think those last two lines perfectly sums up the Republican deep-bench

  73. 73
    Kay says:

    @debbie:

    this will cost Kasich the moderate middle?

    No, sadly, I don’t. Saying incredibly patronizing things about a profession dominated by women is acceptable, but only if we’re talking about public school teachers. That scolding tone is just a constant. They talk about them the way people who don’t like children talk about children.

    Mr. Lehman Bros doesn’t want those whiny women getting together and complaining and such. Gross. Campbell Brown, media personality, just sat there nodding her head adoringly. Double gross. I am so, so tired of lectures from our betters.

  74. 74
    Emma says:

    @rikyrah: I never wanted children of my own but I wouldn’t mind being Auntie Emmie to a couple of those.

    Being Auntie is soooooo satisfying. You spoil them then hand them back.

  75. 75
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Tommy: Someone pointed out that when people say, “Save the rain forest,” they aren’t implying, “Fuck all other kinds of forests.” When we see a “Save the whales” sticker, we don’t automatically question the person’s concern for dolphins.

    Why? Race is a unique minefield, maybe more so in this country than any other place on earth, I dunno. Everyone is automatically defensive and on the alert for slights. It makes rational discussion extraordinarily difficult.

  76. 76
    Peale says:

    @jayackroyd: yep. When you look at polling, the support for anti immigrant positions is high enough that it is a wedge issue for dems. I’m thinking back to the “outrage” that was generated by Arizona laws and “ground zero mosques” in 2010. But when the surveys came in support for increasing harrassment was in the high 60s/70 percent range. You don’t get that level without a large percent of democrats favoring harsh actions. I am also not convinced that the rhetoric against immigrants inspires my side to come to the polls.

  77. 77
    NonyNony says:

    @EconWatcher:

    Has anyone attempted to gauge how many votes they lose by attacking birthright citzenship? I’ll bet they haven’t, and I’ll bet the losses will be colossal. Romeny’s self-deportation comment sounds positively benign compared to eliminating birthright citizenship.

    Here’s the thing – I bet the losses WON’T be colossal. Because this is who they are. They wrote off the black vote decades ago. They have lost the Hispanic and Asian votes and while this will make it stay away I would be surprised if either of those demographics actually drop lower (they’re at the fabled 27% right now, so there’s a good chance that voters in those groups are in the Yellow Dog territory and that losses in those demographics for Republicans will come as those die hards die off, not because they change their minds. Think of the Michelle Malkins and the Bobby Jindals and the Nikki Hayleys of the world – they’re in that 27% demographic and you aren’t going to budge them just because of immigrant bashing – hell a few of them are leading the charge to bash).

    Since the 2012 election they have made it very, very clear that they are the party of white people and for white people. They have made it very clear that they are not really interested in anyone else’s problems. So while they may shave more off those demographic groups they were likely to do that anyway absent a complete remaking of the party – which wasn’t going to happen.

    (My real fear now is that the GOP will just go all the way become a white nationalist party. They’re already too close to that for my liking. And in a country with a two party system, that would be a scary thought.)

  78. 78
    NorthLeft12 says:

    @Bobby Thomson:

    and he will get at least 60% of the white vote in the general election even with or perhaps because of an explicitly racist campaign.

    Look, I can be as pessimistic as most people on the general behavior and intelligence of the public at large, but I have a real hard time believing that Trump or anyone else would receive that large a percentage of the white vote while being explicitly racist.

  79. 79
    EconWatcher says:

    Probably sad news: President Carter is holding a press conference in half an hour to answer questions about his cancer. Hate to say it, but I kinda doubt he’d do that unless the news is very, very bad.

  80. 80
    Cervantes says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Why? Race is a unique minefield, maybe more so in this country than any other place on earth, I dunno. Everyone is automatically defensive and on the alert for slights. It makes rational discussion extraordinarily difficult.

    When that rational discussion can begin with a thought about how “race” is much more socially constructed than purely biological, then we may get somewhere. Until then …

  81. 81
    Scott S. says:

    @Knowbody: Obsessed Racist Moongoblin says what?

  82. 82
    NonyNony says:

    @NorthLeft12:

    I have a real hard time believing that Trump or anyone else would receive that large a percentage of the white vote while being explicitly racist.

    I tend to agree – John McCain only got 55% of the white vote in 2008. I use John McCain as the GOP’s national popular floor – anyone willing to vote for him in 2008 would vote for a monkey waving a Republican flag before they’d vote for the Democrat. So I’d expect Trump to handily get that much if he managed to win the primary (which I continue to find doubtful, despite his current performance).

    On the other hand – a right-wing openly racist Republican going around telling people he’s going to expand their Medicare while also starting wars with other countries to take their oil? It’s unprecedented, so I’m not sure what to think – he could actually get non-voters to vote, which would tweak his totals upward.

  83. 83
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @jayackroyd: yeah, this.

  84. 84
    Frank McCormick says:

    Wow! Talk about going full Nazi! (And, I’m not the one going Godwin — their actions did.)

  85. 85
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @Knowbody: klansman says what?

  86. 86
    rikyrah says:

    Whether or not you think Trump is a colossal cosmic joke inflicted on the body politic, the hatred he’s stoking is very real, and has very real consequences. This is apparently what Trump’s campaign is inspiring in some people, and I’m only surprised that it took this long to manifest.

    In all honesty, if you’re going to attack a HOMELESS PERSON

    you don’t need encouragement from Trump.

    they had that evil in them long before Rat on Top of Head Man spoke up.

    THIS IS WHO THEY ARE.

  87. 87
    Cervantes says:

    @jayackroyd:

    “Bottom two quintiles” … of which distribution?

    Wealth? Income? Intelligence? Something else?

  88. 88
    NorthLeft12 says:

    @Knowbody: Yes, because Americans killing kids/adults around the world is a new thing invented by Obama.

    That has been going on for over two centuries. I think it is part of the job description for being the US President…sad to say.

  89. 89
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @srv: no, that was hot Brit on Brit action.

  90. 90
    rikyrah says:

    @Lavocat:

    However, it is Trump – and Trump alone – who is going out of his way to make this sort of thing not only mainstream, but paradoxically respectable. Trump is getting close to asking his followers to start chanting “Ein Volk!”.

    Trump isn’t hiding behind dogwhistles.
    GOPers have been saying this shyt for forever and a day.

  91. 91
    Cervantes says:

    @rikyrah:

    In all honesty, if you’re going to attack a HOMELESS PERSON you don’t need encouragement from Trump.

    I think that’s right.

    The fact the the Leader brothers cited Trump when asked about their actions is interesting, but it may not be probative.

  92. 92
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @EconWatcher: no, he didn’t invent it. A number of them were already there.

  93. 93
    Thoughtful Today says:

    Erm …

    I keep hearing people talk as if Trump is worse than [insert Republican pseudo-moderate of the week here].

    I’m not sure anyone saying that has thought through the policies of the other [insert Republican pseudo-moderate of the week here].

  94. 94
    Ruckus says:

    @WereBear:
    I’m just saying his words fall on fertile ground.
    That’s his charm isn’t it?
    50-60 yrs of building the conservative mime, 50-60 yrs of scheming for power, 50-60 yrs building resentment which allows controlling the means of profit, 50-60 yrs of hate and racism. This is the end result. The loudest bully gets the most support. And people don’t believe that he can win the nomination. Silly people.

  95. 95
    NorthLeft12 says:

    @EconWatcher:

    Has anyone attempted to gauge how many votes they lose by attacking birthright citzenship? I’ll bet they haven’t, and I’ll bet the losses will be colossal.

    I disagree. Most people have no idea of what exactly is being implied with these statements. They think it only impacts illegal aliens, and the Repubs have written off the Hispanic vote a long time ago. Frankly there will be a lot of Hispanics who won’t hear this or understand what this will mean for them and their children.

    The whole “Oh, that doesn’t apply to me.” crowd will ignore it……if they hear about it at all. Don’t expect the liberal media to explain this concept either. This is a message directed at the group of white racist nativists who want to hear this from their candidate.

  96. 96
    gus says:

    @Belafon: That’s very well stated. I thought that was fairly obvious, but it apparently isn’t.

  97. 97
    Tommy says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Everyone is automatically defensive and on the alert for slights.

    Yes, yes, yes.

    I am pretty good with empathy. But I am an upper middle-class white dude. As much as I try to have empathy for an African American living in say inter-city Baltimore I am hard pressed to understand anything they must have to go through.

    My public schools were stellar. Outside the time I lived on Capital Hill in DC I never even think to lock my front door. If there is any prejudice I get because of my appearance, it might be because I am a short male at 5’4. But that kind of stopped in high school :).

    I am so all in with BLM but I do hope they are careful to push very hard and make people uncomfortable, but walk that thin line (and I don’t know where too much is too much I might add) where they don’t go too far and alienate people like myself that are natural supporters for lack of a better phrase.

  98. 98
    Knowbody says:

    The general idea is Zandar should stop worrying about us electing a xenophobic warmonger asshole and worry more about the one that’s been in office for seven years.

    Trump is a fucking clown, but what he might do with the minuscule chance he’d be president is nothing compared to Barack Obama’s actual record in office.

    Acquire perspective.

  99. 99
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Cervantes: True. But even with that stipulated, and I think most people who are capable of a rational discussion would readily stipulate that race is primarily a social construct, it’s an extraordinarily difficult topic.

  100. 100
    Belafon says:

    @NorthLeft12:

    The whole “Oh, that doesn’t apply to me.” crowd will ignore it……if they hear about it at all. Don’t expect the liberal media to explain this concept either. This is a message directed at the group of white racist nativists who want to hear this from their candidate.

    Jindal can’t even figure out it would apply to people like him. Not saying it would take his citizenship away, but another child born under the same circumstances as him would not be a citizen.

  101. 101
    NonyNony says:

    @Thoughtful Today:

    I’m not sure anyone saying that has thought through the policies of the other [insert Republican pseudo-moderate of the week here].

    The “Trump is worse than X” is more about what Trump’s popularity says about the country than about Trump. It means that there’s a substantial portion of the country who is actively supporting him because he’s openly racist and offensive. A victory means that those folks are in some kind of plurality or majority, and that makes Trump’s support seem worse.

    Also – Trump is flirting with fascism. At least the Republicans pseudo-moderates are fairly staunchly on the conservative side of the scale and aren’t in that weird fascist area where things start to get really scary for a country. The bottom-feeders of the GOP have always flirted with fascism, but usually the guys in the lead were clearly just conservatives – Trump’s popularity means that that proto-fascist message has a lot of appeal for the Republican base, and that should kind of scare anyone who is thinking about it at all.

  102. 102
    boatboy_srq says:

    @Zandar: I had thought, up to now, that Palin and Huckabee were leading this charge. Who knew that rabid capitalist greed would beat (I almost said ‘trump’) self-satisfied Xtian pseudoRighteousness.

  103. 103
    NonyNony says:

    @Knowbody:

    Acquire perspective.

    Yes – I’m quite sure that President Romney or President McCain would have been much better on these issues than President Obama has been.

  104. 104
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @NorthLeft12: I wish I could live in your world.

  105. 105
    What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us? says:

    So these guys were abusive to the police and somehow wound up not dead? That seems like a pretty prime example of white privilege right there.

  106. 106
    NorthLeft12 says:

    @Belafon: Yes, and Mr. Jindal is probably okay with that too. It is the typical conservative philosophy about pulling up the ladder that they have used to get ahead, so that no one else can use it to get ahead.

    Because those people are not as deserving as him.

  107. 107
    kc says:

    @WereBear:

    That’s not really true. Remember John McCain saying “You can’t do it, my friends?”

  108. 108
    boatboy_srq says:

    @NonyNony: In a perverse way, it’s probably good that Trump is the big noise right now. Consider that without Trump’s brutally plain language, the Reichwing would be able to continue down the same path using the same weasel wording that got them this far. The ugliness of Conservatistism is a lot plainer than it would have been without him. It would be better to go without the casualties, but it seems we’ve been accruing those anyway (Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, Eric Garner et al).

  109. 109
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Knowbody:
    Trump is an ignorant blowhard and a loose cannon. As long as his chances of becoming President remain above zero, you can’t discount the real damage he might do in that office.

    Obama is the president who got your country out of two middle-eastern wars and is now doing his best to minimise its involvement in that region’s ongoing conflicts. I don’t see him as a xenophobic warmongering asshole; in fact, he’s quite the opposite.

    For perspective, let’s look at what the Republicans now running for President plan to do if they win: most of them want to bomb Iran, and none supports the nuclear disarmament deal.

  110. 110
    NotMax says:

    @Tommy

    More than willing to grant the benefit of the doubt insofar as it not being the intent, but man, that reads as patronizing and condescending.

  111. 111
    Zandar says:

    @rikyrah:

    Trump isn’t hiding behind dogwhistles.
    GOPers have been saying this shyt for forever and a day.

    Which is precisely why he’s ten points ahead of everyone else.

  112. 112
    Baud says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    I wish we could replace half of our voters with you.

  113. 113
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Ruckus:

    And people don’t believe that he can win the nomination Presidency. Silly people.

  114. 114
    CONGRATULATIONS! says:

    Plurality of Americans want a return to segregation. And it doesn’t have to be the “separate but equal” kind, either.

    I honestly don’t know how you begin to address this. We tried the legal system, we’ve tried propaganda, we tried desegregation (perhaps the worst failure) we’ve tried public shaming, we’ve tried everything. There’s a damn large group of Americans who are just not having it, and they have enough of a voice in the political system to make sure that they can’t be forced into having it.

    I don’t blame Trump for this, he’s just riding the wave. The GOP has been broadcasting the message “racism is A-OK!” since Nixon decided to pick up all the voters who were pissed about the Civil Rights Act way back around when I was born.

  115. 115
    Cervantes says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    But even with that stipulated, and I think most people who are capable of a rational discussion would readily stipulate that race is primarily a social construct, it’s an extraordinarily difficult topic.

    I hope you’re right — but I have been observing for a very long time and I am not sure.

    To truly concede that “race” is primarily a social construct, one has to give up certain things — call it pride or call it heritage or call it tribalism — and I’m not sure people can be asked rationally to abandon those things, or that they will, in fact, ever abandon them.

  116. 116
    Gindy51 says:

    @cahuenga: I’m not willing to put any amount of money on your premise. He could go all the way given how fucking stupid most ‘Murkins are.

  117. 117
    Knowbody says:

    @NonyNony: I’m sure that will comfort the families of those drone strike victims.

    You are exactly the shitbird I’m talking about.

  118. 118
    Cervantes says:

    @Knowbody:

    Trump is a fucking clown, but what he might do with the minuscule chance he’d be president is nothing compared to Barack Obama’s actual record in office.

    That’s wishful thinking, at best.

  119. 119
    WereBear says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Right now he’s being pulled at by his fellow potential nominees who are right there in the mudhole with him.

    In a general election, our side gets a crack at him. And we don’t have our frontal lobes tied behind our backs.

  120. 120
    dr. bloor says:

    “Making America Deutschland greatly racist again” is a hell of a campaign slogan, Donny.

    FTFY.

  121. 121
    Ruckus says:

    @Gin & Tonic:
    One step at a time. Besides it’s early here and I have to go to work. I’d rather not be driving with that thought in mind.

  122. 122
    CONGRATULATIONS! says:

    On the other hand – a right-wing openly racist Republican going around telling people he’s going to expand their Medicare while also starting wars with other countries to take their oil?

    @NonyNony: This has been what I’ve been terrified of for years; that a right-winger would rediscover populism and run on it before the left could overcome their own inherent distaste for the working classes.

    The right in general hates workers and the working class a lot more than the left ever did, but all it took was one guy to see the opening and go for it. Trump is going for it. And Democrats are going to run the wife of a man who did more damage to American workers than any president in my lifetime save Reagan.

    I’m not saying that Trump will win this. I honestly doubt that he could. But it’s a possibility.

  123. 123
    Ruckus says:

    @Cervantes:
    No, that’s absolutely fucking delusional.

  124. 124
    NonyNony says:

    @Knowbody:

    All right – who did you vote for in 2008 and 2012?

  125. 125
    Tommy says:

    @NotMax: You know I just don’t get that.

    reads as patronizing and condescending.

    I was just saying, and I think it was clear, it is hard for somebody like myself and I think for many in this country to understand the emotions behind a movement like BLM when we have never had to deal with many if any of the day-to-day BS they have to.

    To me the meme that went around on the Internet a few years ago, “First World Problems.” Problems I’ve had in the last few days is my fitness bracelet won’t connect to MyFitnessPal app to share info on my food intake. The Replacement Roku unit I ordered for my bedroom, via Amazon Prime hasn’t arrived yet.

    Those are the concerns in my life. Textbook example of “First World Problems.”

    BLM as well as other groups throughout the years have been trying to note and/or say there are other VERY important issues in this nation that are not what my issues are.

    I just wish them all the luck in the world!!!!!!!

  126. 126
    Hoodie says:

    @boatboy_srq: Trump’s not an economic royalist from the Wall Street, Chamber of Commerce or Villager tribes. His dad made his money in lower-rent real estate, not investment banking, and Trump has made much of his fortune in assorted carnival barking. I sense Trump resents the corporate and Wall Street crowd, who treat him like a buffoon. I still remember that Correspondents’ Dinner where Obama publicly humiliated him and all the Villagers got a big laugh out of it, it sure looked like it chapped his ass having some uppity dark-skinned college professor make fun of him in front of a crowd of scummy politicians and other “losers.”

    It may be a big mistake to think that Trump does not take himself seriously, and he has few or no scruples as far as taking advantage of the lowest common denominator and violating all conventions of decorum. As weak as the GOP establishment is, the more he gets away with, the more destabilizing he becomes. This may be especially true because, although she has many strengths, Clinton does not seem to be a conviction politician who can mobilize voters in the way Obama did. It’s easy to forget how otherworldly talented a politician Obama is, but it becomes painfully clear when you view this field (honestly, Romney looks good now in comparison). Because of that, she might not be formidable enough to make the GOP fall in line behind a more buttoned-down candidate like a Romney or McCain, who they otherwise might view as having a better chance of beating such a formidable candidate. A weak minority turnout and a splintering of the white vote could lead to a weird outcome, like a three-way split that results in a plurality candidate winning with numbers in the 30’s.

  127. 127
    Baud says:

    Kevin Drum

    I hopped over to RealClear Politics this morning to take a look at their latest poll averages, and it shows something interesting: Donald Trump may have hit his ceiling. On August 5, he hit a peak at 24.3 percent. He then plateaued for a few days and has been falling ever since. He now stands at 22.0 percent.

    Not all poll averages show the same thing. I also took a look at Pollster, and they show Trump’s climb barely starting to slow down, but not quite peaking yet. Even there, though, it look like Trump is going to hit a ceiling soon.

  128. 128
    rikyrah says:

    @boatboy_srq:

    @NonyNony: In a perverse way, it’s probably good that Trump is the big noise right now. Consider that without Trump’s brutally plain language, the Reichwing would be able to continue down the same path using the same weasel wording that got them this far. The ugliness of Conservatistism is a lot plainer than it would have been without him. It would be better to go without the casualties, but it seems we’ve been accruing those anyway (Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, Eric Garner et al).

    this is my feeling. they spend the time foaming folks up with the dogwhistles, and then scurry once their incitement produces results. there’s no dogwhistle. nowhere to hide.

  129. 129
    Botsplainer says:

    @cahuenga:

    That’s the the urbane, cosmopolitan folks in Berlin thought in 1933 and 1934.

  130. 130
    rikyrah says:

    @Tommy:

    Glad to see you back, Tommy :)

  131. 131
    Baud says:

    OT Kevin Drum quoting the Guardian

    Barack Obama has enough votes to get the Iran deal through the House of Representatives, despite Republican efforts to block the historic nuclear accord, the minority leader, Nancy Pelosi, has said.

    With a Senate vote looking increasingly secure for the president, Pelosi’s comments suggest it is now extremely unlikely that Congress will halt the deal.

    Pelosi, the Democratic leader in the House of Representatives, said on Thursday in an interview with the Associated Press that she was confident House Democrats would have the votes if necessary to see the Iran deal through.

  132. 132
    SenyorDave says:

    @CONGRATULATIONS!: I don’t blame Trump for this, he’s just riding the wave. The GOP has been broadcasting the message “racism is A-OK!” since Nixon decided to pick up all the voters who were pissed about the Civil Rights Act way back around when I was born.

    How do you not blame Trump for this? With Palin at least you could make the argument that she was an ignorant yahoo. Trump is smart enough to know exactly what he is doing. He’s pretty explicit that one of the ways to make America great again is so get rid of the undesirables. He’s not the only one to blame, but he deserves the lion’s share. The base of the party is now overtly in the racist, fascist camp. Has been for years, but now they’re open about it and have a champion.

  133. 133
    rikyrah says:

    uh huh
    uh huh
    crooks…every last one of them!!

    they talk all that bullshyt about ‘fiscal accountability’ when it comes to public schools, but when it comes to charters, they just raise their hands and go ‘ I dunno’.

    time and time again, the THIERVERY is shown, and they just shrug the shoulders.

    ………………………………………..

    PA Cyber Charter founder Nick Trombetta indicted on fraud and tax charges

    The founder and former CEO of a cyber-charter school that educates
    more than 11,000 Pennsylvania students has been indicted by a federal grand jury.

    Fifty-eight-year-old Nicholas Trombetta of East Liverpool, Ohio, is accused of siphoning more than $8 million from the school through a network of profit and non-profit companies he controlled.

    Trombetta surrendered to authorities Thursday night on the charges announced Friday by federal authorities.

    Trombetta allegedly bought a $1 million Florida condominium and houses for his girlfriend and mother, along with nearly $1 million on personal expenses, including groceries.

    http://www.pennlive.com/midsta....._nick.html

  134. 134
    beltane says:

    @Baud: Ignoring Chuck Schumer, Obama does have quite a lot of support for the Iran deal in the Jewish community: http://www.haaretz.com/news/di.....m-1.672059

  135. 135
    MattF says:

    @Baud: Good news. One may assume that Pelosi knows how to count votes.

    ETA: This does mean that all the hedgers and squirmers will come out now, but I suppose that’s the price.

  136. 136
    redshirt says:

    Trump is the light!

  137. 137
    Kay says:

    @rikyrah:

    He came directly from Ohio :)

    I read the original complaint and every single paragraph has one or another reference to an Ohio person or an Ohio address.

    Ohio is Patient Zero of charter scandals. It all starts here, and the infection spreads. Hopefully they’ll follow it back.

  138. 138

    So when is Trump going to start handing out brown shirts to his “passionate” followers?

  139. 139
    Knowbody says:

    @NonyNony: in 2008? Obama.

    I did not repeat that mistake in 2012 and voted for Stein.

    @Cervantes: engaging in “what if” nonsense and ignoring reality is the definition of that and it needs to stop.

    @Amir Khalid: Again, what the Republicans plan to do does not absolve Obama of the acts that he has actually committed. It is irrelevant to the discussion, which is how the absolutely ridiculous penchant of Zandar and other Obama supporters to talk about how terrible a Republican president could have or will be enables the present of how awful Obama is right fucking now.

  140. 140
    Joel says:

    @CONGRATULATIONS!:

    we tried desegregation (perhaps the worst failure)

    O RLY?

  141. 141
    rikyrah says:

    White House mentee heads to Morehouse College
    By Hamil R. Harris August 19 at 5:23 PM

    Noah McQueen used to spend more time fighting and getting arrested than getting good grades and listening to advice. He changed households and public schools 10 times before he landed at the Maryland Juvenile Justice Cheltenham Youth Center.

    But times have changed.

    “Do you need a ride back to the White House?” a presidential aide asked McQueen, 19, as he stood inside Eddie’s Hair Design in Adams Morgan on a recent day.

    “No, I have my own car now,” he responded.

    McQueen didn’t need a barber; he had a fresh haircut. He was there to work. McQueen was there with Broderick Johnson, head of the White House’s My Brother’s Keeper initiative, to be a role model to students from Marie Reed Elementary School. The initiative was launched last year to improve educational and job opportunities for young men of color.

    White House officials, including President Obama, have worked hard to help McQueen. His life changed three years ago, when, as a student at Dr. Henry A. Wise Jr. High School in Upper Marlboro, he began mentoring children at nearby Barack Obama Elementary.

    “I get choked up . . . when I think about where I was,” McQueen said as he reflected on a troubled childhood that included several suspensions, arrests and other run-ins with the law.

    Now McQueen is a freshman at Morehouse College in Atlanta. He graduated in May from Wise, where he finished with a 3.25 grade-point average even though his freshman and sophomore years were academic disasters.

    McQueen came to the attention of the White House because he was part of several mentoring groups. He was selected to participate in My Brother’s Keeper and, in February, the president interviewed McQueen about his life.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....0074701528

  142. 142
    cokane says:

    boston

  143. 143
    Botsplainer says:

    @SenyorDave:

    How do you not blame Trump for this? With Palin at least you could make the argument that she was an ignorant yahoo. Trump is smart enough to know exactly what he is doing. He’s pretty explicit that one of the ways to make America great again is so get rid of the undesirables. He’s not the only one to blame, but he deserves the lion’s share. The base of the party is now overtly in the racist, fascist camp. Has been for years, but now they’re open about it and have a champion.

    By claiming Trump to be smart, you’re assuming facts not in evidence. He has inherited wealth, wears nice suits, talks a lot and derives some unquantifiable economic value from the use of his name and likeness.

    Playing the American fame game doesn’t translate to smart activity.

    The interesting thing that I have yet to hear in this cycle is the set of personal stories from any of his creditors in the bankruptcies. I may just take a gander in PACER to see what may be available.

  144. 144
    catclub says:

    @SteveinSC: This is what I find most interesting. in 2008 and 2012, the wild far right could not unite on a single candidate, so McCain and Romney slowed chewed up the rest of the field. Now, with Trump, if all the ‘respectable’ candidates split the sane(?) part of the GOP vote, Trump would chew up the field. Fascinating!

  145. 145
    NonyNony says:

    @Knowbody:

    I did not repeat that mistake in 2012 and voted for Stein.

    Ah – so you voted for Stein to make yourself feel better because you knew she had not shot of winning so you would be able to absolve yourself of any complicity at all in the country’s actions by saying “I didn’t vote for him”. Good for you!

    Have you actually done anything substantive? Anything that might actually work to change the actual structural issues of the country that push us into useless wars with foreign countries? Obama has actually done things to try to address these things (see the Iran deal, and the normalizing of relations with Cuba, along with most of the rest of his foreign policy) – what have you been doing with your time?

  146. 146
    Botsplainer says:

    @Knowbody:

    I did not repeat that mistake in 2012 and voted for Stein.

    ROFLMFAO

  147. 147
    jayackroyd says:

    @Cervantes: Sorry. Income distribution. And thanks.

  148. 148
    Cervantes says:

    @Knowbody:

    engaging in “what if” nonsense and ignoring reality is the definition of [wishful thinking?] and it needs to stop.

    When you evaluate candidates for office, everything you do is a “what if.” Yes, when the candidate is the incumbent or has a track record, you take it into account and when she isn’t or doesn’t, then you try to figure out what she will likely (be able to) do if elected.

    But it’s all “what if.” There’s no way around that — so I’m not sure what your point is.

    In the specific comparison you’re making, Obama has a record part of which you think is bad and Trump, meanwhile, is promising equally bad and worse things that a Republican Congress would not exactly stand fiercely against. What’s your point?

  149. 149
    Mike in NC says:

    Trump and his followers just need to adopt a uniform, like a brown or black shirt with riding breeches and some shiny jackboots. Very classy!

  150. 150
    Knowbody says:

    @NonyNony: last time I checked I wasn’t the president. Saying that I should somehow “do” something other than “vote for someone who will not kill people in my name” as if that isn’t enough is not my problem, shitbird. It’s yours.

  151. 151
    Tommy says:

    @NonyNony: One of my best clients parents came here from Cuba. On a terrible boat and swam to shore. Mario is still in southern Flordia. I am his “vendor” for lack of a better phrase. We chat more about non-work stuff than work.

    He thinks, as I do, relations with Cuba is about the best thing in the world. His parents hate the idea. As many have noted it is a generational thing. I’ve been only out of this nation in Mexico and Central America.

    I’d love to go to Cuba!!!

  152. 152
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Botsplainer: Of course he’s smart. He says so all the time, so it must be true.

  153. 153
    NonyNony says:

    @Knowbody:

    Saying that I should somehow “do” something other than “vote for someone who will not kill people in my name” as if that isn’t enough is not my problem, shitbird. It’s yours.

    Wait – you really think that VOTING is sufficient for a citizen in a democracy?

    Holy shit – I knew you were delusional, but I didn’t realize that you were an outright idiot.

    Voting is literally the least you can do as a citizen. The bottom of the barrel. The thing that should actually be a requirement by law for ALL of us to do.

    If you aren’t actively working to change the dynamic of this country by doing something – ANYTHING – other than just “voting” then you aren’t actually doing anything.

    No wonder you think that elections are supposed to be about registering your feelings and think that voting for Jill Stein is some kind of meaningful thing.

    Also no wonder you feel so powerless in the face of the fact that the President isn’t doing everything exactly the way you want – this is never going to happen. You need to work to push the country to the point where the President can’t do anything BUT what you want. That’s how democracy works.

  154. 154
    Steve From Antioch says:

    @Kay: good for OMalley..

  155. 155
    Knowbody says:

    @Cervantes: the point is the bad things are happening now, and we’re somehow more worried about what might be. That’s appalling.

  156. 156

    @Tommy: I am in Miami and work with Cubans of all ages and from all backgrounds. I have yet to meet anyone from that crowd who is in favor of keeping the embargo. Okay, so anecdotes does not comprise data, but when it is ended, a lot of them will be on their way there, probably to open a NAPA Auto Parts store.

  157. 157
  158. 158
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Knowbody:
    Okay, what is Obama doing right now in the Middle East that is so terrible?

  159. 159
    Zandar says:

    Wow.

    Knowbody, or whatever you’re calling yourself this month.

    You’re the embodiment of “Letting the good become the enemy of the perfect”. Or in Obama’s case, the great. And you voted for Jill Stein and her third party because that will fix things, all while berating people about “reality”.

    THAT’S ACTUAL MAGICAL THINKING, MAN. You’re a snotty pre-pubescent fraud, and you always have been. Grow the hell up.

    No wonder we have a Republican Congress now (which is the real “awful evil thing now”) and we’re one GOP president away from chaos, and your solution is literally “The rest of you should have voted for Jill Stein”.

    Christ.

  160. 160
    Cervantes says:

    @Knowbody:

    Saying that I should somehow “do” something other than “vote for someone who will not kill people in my name” as if that isn’t enough is …

    … not calculated to be helpful, I agree.

    There certainly are other things one can do besides voting one’s conscience, and in some cases voting one’s conscience can also mean picking the lesser of two evils — and perhaps you agree on both counts.

    @Knowbody:

    the point is the bad things are happening now, and we’re somehow more worried about what might be. That’s appalling.

    I agree, one can and must do both: one must try to correct what’s happening now and one must also look at what’s likely to happen next — nor are the two things independent of one another.

  161. 161
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @EconWatcher: I don’t think there will be colossal losses. It may even be a winning position. Here’s a CBS poll from 2010:

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/po.....tizenship/

    Close to half of Americans think birthright citizenship should be repealed. There’s a more recent poll saying a majority say that, but it’s Rasmussen, probably best taken with skepticism.

  162. 162
    Knowbody says:

    @NonyNony: I don’t feel powerless at all. I feel sorry for the rest of you who go to such semantic extremes to justify voting for the least monstrous asshole to make yourselves feel better.

    @Amir Khalid: in Yemen, Iraq, Syria, Egypt, or Israel? Take your pick. I’m not doing your research for you. Educate yourself.

    @Cervantes: on that last paragraph I agree.

  163. 163
    Chris says:

    @Mustang Bobby:

    I have a now-dead great-aunt who swore she’d never go back to Cuba until Castro had died. … until the Pope’s visit to Cuba in 2000, which she and a couple other family members went down to Cuba for (pulling some strings in the Catholic networks they were active in, I suppose). I never actually asked her about it, but presume she eventually had to face the fact that she was pretty close to death’s door, that it was unlikely Castro would die (and even more unlikely communism would fall) before she did, and that seeing Cuba again was worth more to her than her grudge against the Reds.

    I’m sure there are still a lot of hard-liners in her generation, but there are fewer and fewer of them as time goes by, and the younger ones aren’t picking up where they left off.

  164. 164
    Sherparick says:

    @cahuenga: People always said the same thing about Reagan. How did that work out? Trump is a misogynist, a sociopath, and a megalomaniac, but so have been most of the great dictators and tyrants in world history. He is Lonesome Rhoades with a New York accent and billion dollars in his bank account. http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/face_in_the_crowd He is Willie Stark who does not even need to deal with the bosses. http://www.rottentomatoes.com/.....the%20King

    The fact is that Trump, whether he or has advisers who have read Sean Trende’s books and articles or not (and I suspect he has), is executing Trende’s advice to that to win the White House, Republican should concentrate on boosting the Republican share of the White Vote and boosting white turn out by appealing to secular, northern working class whites on the immigration and trade issue, and making the Welfare State “White Only” once again. http://www.realclearpolitics.c.....rt_iv.html

    http://www.newrepublic.com/art.....-bloodbath

    http://www.newrepublic.com/art.....epublicans

    By the way, you know who else “terrified” establishment Republicans and who they believed would send them to electoral oblivion? Ronald Reagan

    If you go to Trende’s host web site, Real Clear Politics, you will see that Trump is out polling Clinton in both Florida and Pennsylvania right now. And I don’t think it is e-mails that or Clinton’s ethics (as opposed to Trump’s!!!) that are making him more popular then her. He is promising to make America Great (for White People) Again.

  165. 165
    NonyNony says:

    @Knowbody:

    I don’t feel powerless at all. I feel sorry for the rest of you who go to such semantic extremes to justify voting for the least monstrous asshole to make yourselves feel better.

    Whatever floats your boat, buddy. You have already said that you’re useless as far as real change in this country is concerned – you aren’t interested in doing anything but registering an opinion and letting other people do the work for you.

    I mean that’s fine – it’s certainly an old American habit to whine “can’t somebody else do it” and think that just voting for the right person should be sufficient to change the world. But it isn’t like it’s going to actually change anything.

    But then maybe you’re worried about that. I mean, if you’re the kind of person who likes to vote for candidates who can’t possibly win just so you can say “well, I didn’t vote for him” then you might be afraid of committing to make a real change. Better to just stay powerless, vote your feelings, scream at other people ineffectively on blogs, and hope that none of your decisions have any real power to accidentally cause some kind of change in the world.

  166. 166
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Baud: HuffPo’s aggregators suggest to me that Trump actually hit a ceiling around the day of the debate, or a little after. He won in the sense that he didn’t lose: nothing he said at the debate hurt him at all. But his support has been basically flat since then, and maybe slightly declining.

    The thing is, that doesn’t mean it’s his permanent ceiling. Similar things are happening to most of the other ones. Jeb Bush has been modestly declining. Scott Walker cratered. The people who are gaining are the ones down in the single digits like Cruz and Carson and Fiorina.

    At some point next year, a bunch of R candidates are going to start dropping out. The question is whether Trump can get those voters or if they’ll go to Jeb Bush or somebody else, and no analysis of where Trump’s numbers are now can answer that question.

  167. 167
    Matt McIrvin says:

    …Also, while Trump is not currently gaining in the Republican primary polls, his favorability and standing in head-to-head poll questions against Hillary Clinton are improving. I get the impression that a bunch of conservatives and right-wing “independents” are convincing themselves that they might not vote for this guy in the primary, but he’s an acceptable Republican candidate, good enough that they’d support him in the general if he were nominated.

  168. 168
    Chris says:

    You deserved your suspension for workplace threats, your team lead job was eliminated because everyone saw the power going to your head, everyone hated you, and the best part is you got fired for being lazy and because the women you worked with who were all more qualified than you threatened to quit the firm if you weren’t removed.

    … Anybody got CliffNotes?

  169. 169
    Cervantes says:

    @Matt McIrvin:

    I get the impression that a bunch of conservatives and right-wing “independents” are convincing themselves that they might not vote for this guy in the primary, but he’s an acceptable Republican candidate, good enough that they’d support him in the general if he were nominated.

    That’s an interesting question: Is there (or was there ever) a non-zero number of Republicans who would not support Trump if he were the nominee?

    (Same question might be asked about “independents,” I suppose.)

  170. 170
    Sherparick says:

    @Tommy: I would say that 25% to 30% of white people are pretty open racists of “I am not a racist, but all (insert bad negative stereotype for minority group) and English should be the only language spoken in the U.S.) type. Another 5% not even that subtle. Then there is another 30% who may not say or find statements like the above disagreeable, but are uncomfortable with the changes in the country, uncomfortable dealing with hearing Spanish when they go buy fast food, uncomfortable with have a Black supervisor (or President) as “not being in the right order of things. A lot of this discomfort is not at the conscious level, but lurks in the unconscious, and is triggered by events and issues.

  171. 171
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Mustang Bobby: I have a Cuban-American aunt, and her elderly relatives all uniformly opposed any attempt at normalization, but they are all dead now except for one who has dementia and thinks she IS in Cuba most of the time. A Cuban-American friend’s 80-something mom is also against lifting the embargo, but that’s it. 20 years ago, it would have been a different story, but even then, the folks against it were getting old.

  172. 172
    redshirt says:

    @Knowbody:

    Fuck you, you abusive piece of shit.

    You deserved your suspension for workplace threats, your team lead job was eliminated because everyone saw the power going to your head, everyone hated you, and the best part is you got fired for being lazy and because the women you worked with who were all more qualified than you threatened to quit the firm if you weren’t removed.

    The only reason your stinky self (and yes you actually stank at work because of your lack of hygiene) wasn’t fired long before was that the company was afraid of getting rid of the only black engineer, and you rode that train until they had to let you go.

    Don’t ever address me like that again, you misogynist sack of dog shit.

    DRONEZ!

  173. 173
    Cervantes says:

    @redshirt:

    bbbbbbut DRONEZ!

    @redshirt:

    DRONEZ!

    I might have found this sort of gormless snickeration funny, possibly even insightful, when I was six or seven. That was a long time ago.

    Not that you asked — I just thought you should know.

  174. 174
    Seanly says:

    @Sherparick:

    Trump is stoking the embers with a bellows thinking he can ride a bonfire of hatred into the White House. The Republican tactic for the last 40+ years has just been to lightly fan those same embers. All of the resentments that Trump is stupidly pontificating about have been around and will remain unfortunately entrenched in a wide number of Americans. I wonder for how long he can keep the seething hatred up without starting to just seem like a hateful asshole to more & more people.

  175. 175
  176. 176
    J R in WV says:

    @Tommy:

    And we’re all glad you are here to make that case.

    Several regular posters were wondering where you were the past few days. I assumed you have a new urgent task as a self-employed person, and expected you would be around eventually.

    Glad I was right, good to see you again.

  177. 177
    catclub says:

    @Seanly: Robert Reich’s book on Inequality, written in 2010, has a ‘two scenarios for 2020’
    section that I did not finish reading. But the first scenario has a lot of Trump’s trade isolationism and anti-immigrant fervor
    ( although Reich then combines it with a tax the rich – hard, aspect that I cannot see getting any play with Trump).

    I might have to get the book again and see what the other scenario was.

  178. 178
    Cervantes says:

    @debbie, quoting:

    Kasich: ‘If I were king in America, I would abolish all teachers lounges where they sit together and worry about how woe is us’

    And what can we abolish to stop Republicans from doing it?

  179. 179
    Debbie says:

    @Cervantes:

    Charter schools, period.

  180. 180
    Zandar says:

    @Knowbody:

    Don’t ever address me like that again, you misogynist sack of dog shit.

    Wish granted.

    Banned again.

  181. 181
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @Matt McIrvin: and undoubtedly much higher if you look just at white respondents.

  182. 182
    Ella in New Mexico says:

    Trump is not special. People have been blaming someone else for their violence for…forever. He’s only the latest and loudest justifier of projecting all one’s inner turmoil onto a “deserving” subject.

    The homeless are a traditionally “equal opportunity” recipient of crime. That’s a problem that no one will get angry about.

    These kids never heard of Donald Trump. They didn’t need his anti-14th Amendment crap to go find someone to take their hate out on
    http://www.abqjournal.com/4325.....s-men.html

  183. 183
    taylormattd says:

    @Zandar: \o/

  184. 184
    CONGRATULATIONS! says:

    @Zandar: Thank you, that was long overdue. He’s tiresome. My request would be that if he shows up again – and I’m pretty sure he will – that he just be banned, no warnings, no grace period.

    And he seems unhinged enough about whatever went down when you were his boss that I hope he doesn’t know where you live. Be careful with that one.

  185. 185
    balconesfault says:

    @rikyrah: Exactly what I was thinking. Trump is the manifestation, not the root cause.

  186. 186
    Another Holocene Human says:

    There’s a long history of good relations between Irish and Mexicans in North America … but not in Boston.

    Bump Trump, those assholes beat the man up because they wanted to. White thugs jumping Hispanic people going about their business is nothing new in South Boston. Those people hate because they love hating. They’re proud of their title of hate capital of Boston, so they have to defend it. (After all North End/East Boston can do some impressive hating of their own, can’t let them corner the market. As in the corner market where they sell imported goods with caricatured Black people’s heads on them with offensive names.)

  187. 187
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Sherparick:

    If you go to Trende’s host web site, Real Clear Politics, you will see that Trump is out polling Clinton in both Florida and Pennsylvania right now. And I don’t think it is e-mails that or Clinton’s ethics (as opposed to Trump’s!!!) that are making him more popular then her. He is promising to make America Great (for White People) Again.

    Are those the Quinnipiac results? The update here says their sample is unreasonably white and old compared to the 2012 electorate:

    http://www.washingtonmonthly.c.....057214.php

    In other words, what you’re saying is probably exactly what’s going on, but the effectiveness of it may be exaggerated by Quinnipiac’s sample.

    Everything depends on demographics and turnout. Reagan in 1980 got a similar fraction of the white vote to Mitt Romney in 2012, but in 1980 that got you a landslide win, and in 2012 it didn’t. Trump can bring white bigots out but he’ll also turn out the opposition, especially Hispanics; they hate him with an extraordinary intensity and for obvious reason.

  188. 188
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Ella in New Mexico: Way OT, but since you posted that article, figured I’d ask. Next month I’ll be flying into ABQ late at night, and driving north. I’ll be tired, so will probably spend the night somewhere in the area, but I’d like to get at least a bit away from the airport. Are there any areas specifically to avoid? When I see a cluster of $35/night motels near a highway exit I figure that’s not a good sign.

  189. 189
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Another Holocene Human: Not to mention, there aren’t actually that many Mexicans in Boston, or in Massachusetts in general. Someone who is Hispanic is more likely to be Puerto Rican than anything else, which is to say, a native-born US citizen. (The rest are mostly from the Dominican Republic, or any of several Central American countries.)

    Edit: …and of course some fraction of them are going to be second- or later generation, native-born citizens as well.

  190. 190
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Zandar:

    Nicely done. Troll forgot he was abusing a front-pager with banhammer access.

  191. 191
    NorthLeft12 says:

    @Joel: Yes, I don’t understand exactly what the poster meant by saying that desegregation was the worst failure.

    If CONGRATULATIONS meant that the failure was in not completely following through on this, I might see how that case might be made, although the failure [IMO] was in the private sector and not for lack of trying in public areas.

  192. 192
    Cervantes says:

    @NorthLeft12:

    Yes, I don’t understand exactly what the poster meant by saying that desegregation was the worst failure.

    Nor did I.

  193. 193
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @NorthLeft12: Probably just that the United States is still de facto highly segregated, and schools are actually becoming more segregated with time.

  194. 194
    Cervantes says:

    @Matt McIrvin:

    That would make it a failure — but the worst?

  195. 195
    debbie says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Exhibit #1 for the lousiness of the human species has got to be the Internet.

  196. 196
    Miss Bianca says:

    @rikyrah:

    me too. But I’d have to adopt. ; )

  197. 197
    Bitter Scribe says:

    These are the kinds of people Jim Webb wants to bring into the Democratic fold.

  198. 198
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Kay:

    Or as a friend of mine put it…”I’d like to have a part in crafting education policy…unfortunately, I have teaching experience”.

  199. 199
    catclub says:

    @Matt McIrvin:

    they hate him with an extraordinary intensity and for obvious reason.

    I would like someone to do an update on how Trump is seen at Univision and other Spanish language networks. They were the first to kick him hard. I wonder what he looks like to them now.

  200. 200
    Cervantes says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Nicely done.

    Rather disappointing, I thought.

    Troll forgot he was abusing a front-pager with banhammer access.

    By that I’m sure you don’t mean it’s OK to abuse others — and yet by your standards was said commenter not also subjected to abuse?

  201. 201
    Bill says:

    @JMG:

    Truth is, this is probably a position with majority support. Survey after survey in my lifetime (I’m 65) shows that most Americans disapprove of parts of the Constitution, Bill of Rights especially, that give rights to people other than themselves.

    Which of course is the very reason we have a constitution.

  202. 202
    Ella in New Mexico says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    it depends on what you’re looking for. The areas to avoid are going to be pretty obvious–north Central, for example. Downtown ABQ has it’s scary areas, too, but mostly in obviously “bad” neighborhoods where you wouldn’t find a hotel. We’ve stayed all over the city, and as long as its a decent national chain, we felt pretty safe. The area off Louisiana near ABQ Uptown has several nice hotels, and you can walk to a restaurant or shop from them. The airport area is actually pretty nice, and it’s an easy drive down the road from the University/Central area which has some great, walkable areas and really good restaurants. Do you have a place in mind? I could give you feedback if you do.

    Albuquerque has some crime issues, particularly in it’s poorer areas, but in general, it’s a really nice, upscale western city. Hope you enjoy your trip! :-)

  203. 203
    redshirt says:

    @Cervantes: Aren’t you the blog scold!

  204. 204
    Cervantes says:

    @redshirt:

    Aren’t you the blog scold!

    Spoken (again) like a juvenile.

    You can address the question, or you can keep complaining about the question.

    Go ahead — surprise me.

  205. 205
    redshirt says:

    @Cervantes: LOL. Trolls gets what they deserve.

  206. 206
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Ella in New Mexico: Thanks for your response. Having never been there, I’m just looking at a map. As I said, really passing through, as I have to drive up to Durango the next day. I can stay in the airport area if that’s best, but just psychologically, I’d like to get a half-hour north or so before hitting the sack, as that will make me feel better the next morning. Thinking in the Paseo Del Norte area, roughly. Would love to get up to the 550, but there’s not much there.

  207. 207
    louc says:

    First, near the bottom of that horrific story, it notes that one of the brothers also was convicted or pled guilty to punching a Muslim in the face after 9-11, so there’s a pattern here in that ugly family.

    Second, my husband and I watched part of Trump’s townhall last night on MSNBC. I think boiling it down to the anti-immigrant message is missing a lot of what he says. He is tapping white, blue-collar resentment big time. He talked about all the jobs going to China and overseas that he’d bring back, castigating American companies for selling out the American people and getting lots of cheers. He talked about the corporate, billionaire masters of the other candidates, also generating big cheers, pointing out to his audience that he can’t be bought, unlike the other Republican candidates.

    And I felt myself nodding along. Then he moved into “the illegals” and wall-building and I remembered why I detested the guy.

  208. 208
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @redshirt: you can always count on Cervantes for contrarian centrism and aggressive attempts to “purify” debate to that end.

  209. 209
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @louc: he’s George Wallace with a Queens accent.

  210. 210
    Cervantes says:

    @Bobby Thomson:

    you can always count on Cervantes for contrarian centrism and aggressive attempts to “purify” debate to that end.

    Here I am saying I was disappointed that someone was banned — and you think I’m the one attempting to “‘purify’ debate”?

    You’re funny — and still barking up the wrong tree.

  211. 211
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @Cervantes: hence the scare quotes. You’re the patron saint of trolls and viruses. Will no one think of the poor doxxer?

  212. 212
    redshirt says:

    @Cervantes: Lighten up, Francis.

  213. 213
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Cervantes: I don’t know if you’re aware of it, but KB and Z have a long history. KB has been showing up under multiple usernames to castigate Z for at least a couple years that I know about, possibly much longer. The handy excuse this time was a supposed indifference to drones, but as you can see by KB’s quickness to resort to airing real-life personal conflicts on an anonymous Internet space, it’s not just about an ordinary disagreement over politics.

    I don’t know jack-shit about what went down in 3-D space between those two, but I do know that I’ve worked with truly heinous, horrible, malevolent wretches whom I had every reason to despise utterly, and it never once crossed my mind to obsessively stalk them across social media and air our dirty laundry in public. And to devote YEARS to the effort? That’s just not healthy.

  214. 214
    Cervantes says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Thanks.

    I did not always agree with the commenter in question but I find, as with most people, it’s still possible to talk usefully once in a while.

    And yes, I was aware of the things you relate, in a vaguely in-the-back-of-my-mind-but-I-have-no-time-to-think-about-it sort of way. Something not healthy about the relationship between them? Apparently. There’s a lot of anger there, and I have no idea whose fault that is. It’s up to them to sort that personal stuff out if they can and want to.

    as you can see by KB’s quickness to resort to airing real-life personal conflicts

    Not sure how this quickness is measured: it seems to me the commenter made numerous remarks above without airing real-life conflict and then snapped only after being called a “snotty pre-pubescent fraud” by you-know-who.

    Anyhow, thanks again.

  215. 215
    Cervantes says:

    @Bobby Thomson:
    @redshirt:

    The quality of your respective arguments leaves me speechless.

  216. 216
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Cervantes: Yeah, but “snotty pre-pubescent fraud” is like “howdy” around here sometimes. Personal insults are common enough, and I suspect if KB had responded with a string of similar insults, Z wouldn’t have banned him/her. But airing alleged real-life events that have nothing to do with what’s posted here crosses a line, at least in my book. I don’t blame Z a bit for not putting up with that. YMMV.

  217. 217
    Cervantes says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    So your objection is not that real-life allegations were aired too quickly but that they were aired at all?

    I see what you mean.

    Yeah, but “snotty pre-pubescent fraud” is like “howdy” around here sometimes. Personal insults are common enough

    With predictable results.

    Here’s hoping they sort out their differences peacefully.

    On which note, have a peaceful evening yourself!

  218. 218
    Frank Bolton says:

    @Cervantes: No one likes a whiner, son. No one likes a smarm-slinger, either. So I don’t know why you think combining both and riding that ‘but what about our precious blog tone and atmosphere’ pony is getting you anywhere. But trust me, it’s not.

  219. 219
    geg6 says:

    @Kay:

    Actually, Trombetta is a Beaver County, PA guy. PA Cyber started when the Midland, PA school district could no longer justify, financially and student body-wise, a high school. Nick Trombetta was the Midland superintendent. No local district would take those kids (poor and minority, for the most part). Eventually, East Liverpool, OH high school agreed and the PDE and state leg made it happen. Soon after, Trombetta retired from Midland and started PA Cyber and then a few years later, Lincoln Park Performing Arts High School, which uses the PA Cyber teachers and classes for the regular curriculum. It’s a giant scam. I’ve been waiting for this guy to fall for over a decade.

  220. 220
    Cervantes says:

    @Frank Bolton:

    Er … sorry, did you say something? I can’t tell.

  221. 221
    Frank Bolton says:

    @Cervantes:

    Er … sorry, did you say something? I can’t tell.

    I accuse Cervantes of being wrapped up in a bubble of querulous smarm, Cervantes’ response is to double-down on the querulous smarm. Quelle surprise.

    This is why you don’t tone-troll, kiddies. Yeah, you get that fleeting high of being a martyr for fake Internet civility and maturity, but it ravages your wit and logos pretty quickly.

  222. 222
    Ksmiami says:

    @Betty Cracker: so who’s up for investigating how many “illegals” work in trump hotels etc.. What a colossal d::ck

  223. 223
    Desdemona says:

    How interesting.

  224. 224
    Ella in Ella in New Mexico says:

    @Gin & Tonic:
    Yes, the Paseo del Norte area is very nice, also close to some decent chain restaurants. We just made the trip to Durango, and it’ll be an easy drive from there to the Bernallio exit you take to go north. Overall a very pretty drive. If you get a chance, visit the Aztec ruins-it’s a mini Chaco can you you can see in less than an hour. Enjoy!

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