At the Washington Post, immigration defense lawyer Raha Jorjani asks the Swiftian question “Could black people in the U.S. qualify as refugees?“:
Suppose a client walked into my office and told me that police officers in his country had choked a man to death over a petty crime. Suppose he said police fatally shot another man in the back as he ran away. That they arrested a woman during a traffic stop and placed her in jail, where she died three days later. That a 12-year-old boy in his country was shot and killed by the police as he played in the park.
Suppose he told me that all of those victims were from the same ethnic community — a community whose members fear being harmed, tortured or killed by police or prison guards. And that this is true in cities and towns across his nation. At that point, as an immigration lawyer, I’d tell him he had a strong claim for asylum protection under U.S. law…
According to U.S. asylum law, that persecution must be on account of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group or political opinion. In many cases, courts have said that violence by police officers, unjust imprisonment, rape, assault, beatings and confinement constitute persecution. Even nonphysical forms of harm, such as the deliberate imposition of severe economic disadvantage, psychological harm, or the deprivation of food, housing, employment or other essentials, help make the case. In one instance, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit ruled that an individual who had been arrested, held for three days and then falsely accused of a crime had been persecuted…
Finally — not everyone will agree this is the right question, but it’s one that’s been asked a lot — Ben Collins & Tim Mak, at the Daily Beast, “Who Really Runs #BlackLivesMatter?“:
… In response to the death of unarmed black teen Trayvon Martin and the acquittal of his killer, activists Patrisse Cullors, Alicia Garza, and Opal Tometi rallied together on Twitter to create visibility with a unified phrase: Black Lives Matter. As more black Americans —like Tamir Rice, Michael Brown, Eric Garner and Freddie Gray—were killed by police, the phrase gained prominence and resonance—both on Twitter, and in the protests that would follow, nationwide.
In the process of trying to grow its message from a hashtag spawned by three activists into a national political movement, Black Lives Matter—a decentralized organization with official and unofficial Facebook pages, meet-ups, and blogs throughout America and the world—is splintering internally on how to express that message, and even defining what that message truly is.
After all, when an article says Black Lives Matter interrupted a campaign event, who is a part of Black Lives Matter, anyway? The answer to that question is even harder to answer…
***********
… Did the movement send protesters to disrupt Bernie Sanders?“I didn’t. My chapter did,” says Patrisse Cullors—one of three people credited with starting and spreading the #BlackLivesMatter hashtag that was used to help grow a national movement. She’s also the founder of Dignity and Power Now, a Los Angeles-based organization that works for the rights of incarcerated people and their families. “What we do is we support the chapters. We support their local demands and goals. They tell us what they need us to build support around.”
Cullors, 32, says she met up with Willaford at a Black Lives Matter national retreat and that they “talk all of the time,” but she never gave direct instructions to interrupt Sanders’s rally. She calls Willaford and Johnson’s branch “a very new chapter.”
“That chapter did all the work. And we supported it by ensuring they were a part of the chapter,” says Cullors. “It’s very rare there’s a national directive for people to do things. We amplify and support.”…
Cullors says there are now “registered chapters” of the national Black Lives Matter movement, and cites Boston, Los Angeles, the Bay Area, and now Seattle as those who have filled out the necessary paperwork.
But a list of official chapters does not appear on the official Black Lives Matter website and is not publicly available, according to Cullors. There is no registration form on the official website and no statement noting that local Black Lives Matters groups must sign up with the national branch…
ETA: Much more detail, especially about the Seattle action, at the link. Worth reading, if you’re curious!
Dolly Llama
So another Occupy movement, then?
lamh36
Oh…Lordt…I’ma just sit back and lurk in this post…
Roger Moore
@Dolly Llama:
It sounds as if they’re trying to be more organized than Occupy, but that their popularity has outrun their organization. I think that’s something we’re going to have to deal with in the era of the internet.
lamh36
I will say, that I appreciate folk like Janelle Monae, John Legend, Common, Talib Kweli, Jesse Williams, etc…who are open and out front with their activism. So many “new celeb” are so busy trying not to offend that they refuse to even use their voice to bring attention to a worthy cause.
Any wealthy celeb can throw money at a cause or charity, but those who actively participate are the ones I really appreciate.
kc
Mm-hmm. There’s been some interesting commentary on that by some other Black tweeps from Seattle.
Anne Laurie
@lamh36: It’s a really good song, too, IMO. I can see people who “don’t think about politics” listening to it, and maybe learning by osmosis?
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
Vandals spray-painted “White Lives Matter” on the gravestone of Queen Haley, Alex Haley’s grandmother. (For the young’ins, Alex Haley was the author of “Roots” and the co-writer of “The Autobiography of Malcolm X”:
http://www.jacksonsun.com/story/news/crime/2015/08/03/racial-graffiti-written-grave–alex-haley-descendant/31052111/
But it’s about politeness in politics, amirite?
Cacti
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
MLK had a PhD, always wore a suit and tie, preached reconciliation, and practiced non-violent civil disobedience…
And still got murdered for his activism.
Gimlet
After raising awareness of the problem, there are no concrete steps to accomplish its goal.
kc
Wow, I feel so bad for Nikki Stephens after reading that story. She did not deserve any of that.
SiubhanDuinne
@Cacti:
Forgive me if I’ve posted this previously. There are too many occasions when it is apt.
There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand:
Beware the People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.
kc
@Anne Laurie:
It’s so good; so heartbreaking to listen to all those names.
Oatler.
They can’t be called refugees any more than US police can be tried for murder and war crimes.
Omnes Omnibus
Shit. She is right.
Cacti
@Omnes Omnibus:
Yep.
It’s a depressingly strong case. And black people are under siege in every geographic, political, and cultural region of the country.
Frankly, there’s never been a time in the history of our Republic, and the colonial era of the preceding two centuries, where black people weren’t under siege.
Omnes Omnibus
@Oatler.: If they went to, for example, Canada and requested asylum, there is a decent prima facie case to be made that asylum should be granted.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Cacti:
I blew my own punch line. It should have been “it’s about ethics in political protesting.”
Cacti
@Oatler.:
I’ll bet an African American US citizen could make a pretty compelling case for asylum in an EU member state.
rikyrah
@lamh36:
LOL
rikyrah
@lamh36:
tell me about it. if some of these New Kneegrows were around during the Civil Rights Movement, we’d still be drinking from Colored water fountains.
rikyrah
@Cacti:
Tell that truth.
Baud
Y’all giving Trump too many ideas about what to put on his policy statement on racial justice.
Oatler.
@Omnes Omnibus: Maybe they could, if Harper ever leaves.
Goblue72
I assume it will last long enough for Van Jones to figure out how to make a buck off it.
These kinds of spontaneous, decentralized protest movements tend to get a lot of attention initially, burn very bright for awhile and then soon burn out due to lack of – and in some cases, hostility towards – organizational infrastructure & hierarchy.
At the end of the day, somebody needs to be in charge. There needs to be structure, goals, strategy, money, staff and accountability. Occupy got a lot of attention quickly and then quickly fell apart in a flurry of hand gestures and human megaphones. BLM is following the same script – which is not surprising as its not a “group” so much as a Twitter hashtag.
None of which is to say it’s social justice criticisms and demands are unwarranted. What they are demanding is rather quite justified. But so are a lot of things. To achieve those demands requires power, and power requires organization.
Lavocat
I was just talking about this with a friend last week, so it seems it’s gone viral.
Conditions in the United States for black Americans have always been such that they might very well qualify for asylum in many other countries – especially in Europe.
I’m always amazed at how un-self-aware (self-unaware?) most Americans are when it’s Americans wearing the black hat. Put any other country in the black hat and most Americans would want to bomb them into the stone age. But America wearing the black hat? Crickets.
Right to Rise
Picture this:
An embattled establishment favorite, fighting off one member of his party to the right, the other to the left. An MSM who has given up on him, ridiculing his chances. Both may even explore third party bids to siphon off enough support to cripple him when he is the eventual nominee.
I’m talking of course, about Harry Truman.
But this time Truman isn’t the Democrat–he’s the Republican. Donald Trump is Strom Thurmond, and John Kasich is Henry Wallace.
Bush is the great center of the GOP, and he will provide a stiff definition of the party without selling out, offer conservatism with boundaries but not high walls.
This is 1948.
Cacti
@Right to Rise:
Meanwhile, in the real world, Jeb drops out after getting wiped out on super Tuesday.
Misterpuff
@Right to Rise: Dewey Wins!
Raven on the Hill
“Protesters in Massachusetts’ Black Lives Matters chapters say there’s a simple logistical reason Bernie Sanders’s speeches have been interrupted twice—once in Seattle, and once before in Phoenix last month—but Hillary Clinton hasn’t yet been disrupted.
“That reason? The Secret Service, which Boston Black Lives Matter activist Daunasia Yancey describes as ’50 men in the building who are willing to kill you.'”
Gandhi would have told you you have to risk your lives. You do no good attacking your friends, or even just potential allies.
It becomes clear to me that one reason progressives fight among themselves is because their real enemies are hard to reach and dangerous.
Beyond that, it seems to me progressives could use some of the good old-fashioned conservative virtues of self-discipline and organization. Atomistic anarchism wins no political fights, on the left or right.
NotMax
@Right to Rise
Yup, the make-up of the electorate is exactly the same as in 1948. As if.
Wahnsinn macht frei.
raven
Melissa Harris Perry is sitting in for Rachel and has NEW video of Hillary and a BLM woman in a “confrontation”.
Raven on the Hill
The crowd that made Sanders time in Seattle so interesting sounds a lot like (but I don’t think they are) the Seattle Black Bloc, and that lot consistently manages to create bad press by rioting during otherwise peaceful demonstrations.
lamh36
NotMax
@raven
After more than about three minutes, her lisp becomes extremely irritating.
raven
@NotMax: who?
NotMax
@raven
Harris-Perry’s sibilant ‘S.’
raven
@NotMax: Ah, Melissa.
MHP with a good question. “What would a good answer to your questions be”?
Roger Moore
@Lavocat:
They might theoretically qualify for refugee status in Europe, but looking at the way refugees are being treated in Europe right now I doubt they would get it.
Goblue72
@Raven on the Hill: this probably sounds better in the original German.
raven
MPH with a clip of a Confederate flag rally she saw. “God Hates Flags” was one of the signs!
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@raven: That’s a clever sign indeed.
scav
@Right to Rise: Bush Jeb. is indeed stiff in several meanings of the word (including one noun). So, yeah, there’s a definition of the party right there.
raven
And now she has Biden at the memorial for the military personnel killed in Chattanooga.
He’s said it before but it’s still powerful
raven
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): I mentioned the other day one we saw when we were at a counter-Westboro rally in Savannah. “God Hates Your Outfit”!
JPL
@raven: Must be pretty special to know what god hates.
Raven on the Hill
@Goblue72: Oh, come off it. I’m not saying “regiment the movement,” I’m saying “have some organization.” I’ve been watching the movements that don’t believe in organization flame out, in fandom, on the internet, in Occupy, for 35 years now and I’m tired of it. I’d like to see my side get organized enough to actually start winning, and I do not mean organized around some well-funded corporatist apparatchik.
scav
@JPL: Odd how so many know that their sins are forgiven while those of others are not.
Kropadope
@scav: Well, touching people of your own gender is a far worse sin than the deliberate spreading of hatred.
scav
@Kropadope: But don’t forget the sanctity of lying about touching people of your own gender in order to mitigate the bad PR of touching the wife of your neighbor. That’s totally legit. Not to mention plagiarizing popes, that’s totally kosher too, especially if you’re a cardinal.
BobS
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): I agree — fuckin’ Bernie Sanders shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near a paint store.
Kropadope
@scav:
I’m still stunned that they were able to convince themselves that was a good idea.
@BobS: ?????
magurakurin
@Raven on the Hill:
The personal life is dead in Russia. History has killed it.
SiubhanDuinne
@Right to Rise:
I was alive in 1948.
1948 was a friend of mine.
2015, sir, is no 1948.
SiubhanDuinne
@NotMax:
I never noticed a particular sibilance, but if it’s there it is truly unfortunate that her name is Melisssssa Harrisssss.
(Not unlike Norman’s line in On Golden Pond: “Ethel Thayer. Sounds like I have a lisp, doesn’t it?”)
jl
@SiubhanDuinne: Gotta be a spoof troll.
And, I do not know the answer to “Could black people in the U.S. qualify as refugees?“, but I don’t see how it is Swiftian, as in ‘Modest Proposal’ Swiftian. If selective police misbehavior and violence continues, with the recent level of documentation, it should become a serious question. Just like when UN human rights violation investigations should begin. Certainly concerning African-Americans, and can include Hispanics and poor in general depending on how strict you want to be about it.
RaflW
The GOP top 40 hits just keep on comin’! Outreach to anyone not white and multigenerational Merikan is not just over but dead and buried. Seven of the Klowns at the very least are on the record with this:
Apparently the 14th Amendment is now in play if you are a Republican.
Davebo
And immigration lawyer with the public defenders office is certainly a new twist.
burnspbesq
@RaflW:
The entire Bill of Rights, plus the 13th, 14th, 15th, and 19th Amendments, is in play. Except the Establishment Clause and the current misunderstanding of the Second Amendment.
KS in MA
@Goblue72:
You are 100% right. BLM needs to know that social media doesn’t replace organizing. It’s so damn sad …
Xantar
@Raven on the Hill:
I agree with you in general on the need for organization, but I think we should also recognize that unlike Occupy, the BlackLivesMatter movement has a coherent and easily understandable goal. Occupy Wall Street was astonishing in its refusal to actually state what it wanted (with a few idiots even saying that the whole concept of a “goal” was counter to the spirit of the movement). BlackLivesMatter can at least point to police brutality and say, “We want an end to that.”
I think the danger for BlackLivesMatter is not that it becomes irrelevant like Occupy but that it becomes an exploited brand like the Tea Party. We’ll have to see whether they manage to avoid being co-opted by the power interests in play.
MazeDancer
@RaflW:
Bobby Jindal can only run for President because of the 14th Amendment. He is a birthright citizen. His mother was pregnant with him when she arrived in Louisiana from India. And neither of his parents were citizens when he was born.
jl
@MazeDancer: That was then, this is now. IGMFY, loser, is the motto. And Bobby is one of the ‘good ones’ so OK for some of the more open minded reactionaries.
jl
@efgoldman: Maybe Trump will do it at the next debate, if Jindal improves his polling and can make the main event. and irritate His Trumpness enough. Rand already done got told by The Donald.
Roger Moore
@burnspbesq:
ITYM the Free Exercise Clause. The wingnuts would love to kill the Establishment Clause, though they would probably wind up in a nasty civil war over exactly which branch of Christianity to establish once they did it.
ETA: And you definitely left out the 16th Amendment, which is square in their sights. Some of them have come out against the 17th, too, and I doubt there would be too much crying in wingnut circles if the 23rd, 24th, and 26th Amendments were repealed.
RaflW
@MazeDancer: Yes, Jindal epitomizes the whole GOP notion of pulling up the ladder after getting into the lifeboat.
jl
And some cheery evidence that Walker is just as much a loser as Jeb!? And that is possible, you know. Just because Trump says something that doesn’t mean it isn’t true. Believe it or don’t.
Anyway, Walker accusing Trump of stealing his immigration plan. For reals…
And I can’t find it now, but Trump, genius PR con man, has pre-humiliated Walker on the charge. Trump said something to a reporter like “What’s in my plan? Who cares? FU go read it, WTF that junk is mostly for you reporter losers who like to read that stuff, the voters trust me on it, that’s what’s important!”
Unfair!
Donald Trump Copied Scott Walker’s Immigration Homework, Says Scott Walker
by Kaili Joy Gray
http://wonkette.com/593012/donald-trump-copied-scott-walkers-immigration-homework-says-scott-walker
BBA
@burnspbesq: I’ve half-seriously mused that Hobby Lobby made Roman Catholicism the established religion, notwithstanding the Establishment Clause. (“This decision applies to birth control but not to blood transfusions because only the religious objections we agree with count.”)
Benw
@BBA: ha ha! Suck it, Jehovah’s Witnesses!
Myiq2xu
“I request asylum because black people are persecuted in America!”
“Isn’t your president black?”
KS in MA
@Xantar:
If I headed a group that opposed police brutality, my priority would be to have my group spend a lot of time forming coalitions with like-minded citizens’ groups in selected cities where police brutality is an obvious problem… That’s not particularly visible or newsworthy, but it’s necessary. If the city governments and police departments aren’t interested in change, then our coalitions might move to picketing police headquarters (both visible and connected with our goal in an obvious way), holding parades (a show of strength), etc. The actual goal would be to get city government and the police department to work with us, to retrain cops and monitor their behavior–not (for instance) to make the national news, although that would be a nice side effect.
Just my $0.02. Or maybe this is so simple-minded and old-fashioned that nobody will go for it.
jl
Just because some trolls, spoof or true, are funny, that doesn’t others are able to pull it off, alas.
Omnes Omnibus
@KS in MA: The protests of presidential candidates are not the only things that BLM is doing. It is the thing that is drawing eyes though.
ThresherK
@jl: “But son, why couldn’t you cheat by copying off a smarter kid?”
jl
@ThresherK: Probably most of Trump’s policy proposals will be like immigration, at least in the sense that a mystery box that is promised to contain unicorns, gumdrops rainbows and whatever everybody wants for free, will be revealed to contain more mystery boxes that are promised to contain unicorns, gumdrops rainbows and whatever everybody wants for free.
Maybe that is how Trump’s business plans work, who knows?
KS in MA
@Omnes Omnibus:
Right … and that’s a problem.
Omnes Omnibus
@KS in MA: We disagree.
Roger Moore
@jl:
I’m pretty sure that most of Trump’s business plans start with “1. Identify a sucker”.
Benw
@Xantar: given their level of organization and resources, BLM has been very successful getting their message across. As you say, part of that is because it’s a pretty simple message.
But to avoid being co-opted requires power and influence. Groups like BLM usually get that from communities and activists willing to work together. It’s not clear how deep BLM goes into local communities for their support.
jl
@Roger Moore: That is probably one one underpants gnome business plan that works.
identify a sucker
say ‘????’
profit.
ThresherK
@jl: I’m becoming of the mind that his business plans are going to look like textbook lessons compared to the policy papers.
Dr.McCoy
When do we start the conversation about reparations?
jl
@ThresherK: Would be interesting to see. Maybe Trump does business with people who listen to stuff like “We have to deport all undocumented residents in the US, but we have to keep all the families together” and the marks…. uh… I mean business partners say “Wow, what a classy fantastic terrific plan! You’re a genius, Mr. Trump!”
RaflW
Week by week, I think a bit more about self-deporting to Sweden.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@Dr.McCoy:
Already opened:
http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/05/the-case-for-reparations/361631/
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@BobS:
It’s not Bernie I’m suspicious of. You’re gonna need turpentine to get that paint off your sleeve, BTW — just washing it won’t help.
Omnes Omnibus
@RaflW: Gabby Johnson has a few words for you.
Jordan Rules
@Mnemosyne (tablet): Required reading. ::nods::
Omnes Omnibus
@Mnemosyne (tablet): BobS’s feelings are hurt that AA people didn’t protest in a way that made him comfortable.
redshirt
Fuck the USSA.
Omnes Omnibus
@redshirt: ???
BobS
@Omnes Omnibus:You might be onto something — I do seem to remember getting annoyed when my kids would have their tantrums. But then they turned 5.
redshirt
@Omnes Omnibus: It’s an 80’s reference. Pretty obscure, apparently.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@Jordan Rules:
And yet BobS and the other trolls will never read it, because then they might have to admit that black people in this country have good reason to be pissed off.
Omnes Omnibus
@BobS: Dude, you are the one who keeps showing up on thread after thread and bitching about this. Who is throwing the tantrum?
BobS
@Omnes Omnibus:You?
Omnes Omnibus
@BobS: Wow, that is is unbelievably pathetic. You should get some sleep.
Suzanne
@Mnemosyne (tablet): I really don’t know why so many white people are invested in this whole I-dont-disagree-with-your-point-just-your-tactics thing to such an extent. Like, if you really agree with the BLM activists, why do you care if they make people uncomfortable? I don’t know if the strategy of engaging Sanders directly on stage will be effective in the long run (I don’t have a long history of boots-on-the-ground activism), but it certainly doesn’t irritate me if they try to make it work. Being polite hasn’t done shit so far, so why keep trying? Make people uncomfortable. What’s the worst that can happen?
Steve from Antioch
You showed them with your raper wit.
Omnes Omnibus
@Steve from Antioch: Please tell me that was a typo.
BobS
@Suzanne: Similarly, I don’t understand why so many people give 2 or 3 or more shits that I thought the BLM demonstrators in Phoenix and Seattle acted like assholes. However, with respect to “being polite”, we don’t know how far that may have gotten with Sanders, since they didn’t seem to feel like he deserved the respect they demanded from him and his supporters. Which brings us back to them acting like assholes. And as far as making people “uncomfortable”, I agree — there’s just something satisfying about making the self-righteous puff out their chests.
Roger Moore
@Suzanne:
They’re trying to complain about BLM without actually standing up and saying that black concerns should be a low priority.
Steve from Antioch
@Roger Moore: Thank you for your efforts to stick up for black folks.
Suzanne
@BobS: I presume you have a solution, instead of merely complaining about their tactics on the intertoobz?
rikyrah
@MazeDancer:
The balls on that clown, who took his name from a tv show.
Omnes Omnibus
@BobS: No one really cares what you say, but you, as a commenter on this blog, rather personified the dismissive attitude toward BLM that a good number of Bernie fans have exhibited. So you get used as target practice.
The Raven on the Hill
@Xantar: “I agree with you in general on the need for organization, but I think we should also recognize that unlike Occupy, the BlackLivesMatter movement has a coherent and easily understandable goal.”
True. Occupy was heavily influenced by consensus-oriented ideological anarchists. The leaders, such as they were, didn’t recognize just how fast trolls will destroy an unmoderated consensus process. BlackLivesMatter, on the other hand, may fall apart because it can’t get its local chapters to coalesce around a plan of action. “Fuck the police” (Outside Agitators 206) is, I suppose, the BlackLivesMatter equivalent of Occupy’s “Let’s open the hangar doors so the trolls can get in.”
I hope some of their leadership is willing to lead.
Omnes Omnibus
@Steve from Antioch: So, it wasn’t a typo? Damn.
NotMax
@SiubhanDuinne
She can tone it down but listen closely, particularly when she gets excited or has to rush to fit something in. Sounds as if she’s channeling Cindy Brady.
Smiling Mortician
@Xantar:
Not according to the reps on Maddow with MHP. When asked how they felt about Clinton’s response, they said that she just talked about policy and how it could be used to combat institutional racism, but they were really hoping for a more personal reflection on her wrongness in the past.
Sorry, but that’s dumb.
Also sorry if this has already been beaten to death. Haven’t seen all the comments yet.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@Suzanne:
It’s particularly weird because it worked. Sanders had BLM activists in Los Angeles speak at his next rally.
So now it’s coming across to me that people are throwing a temper tantrum because they don’t like that it worked and that Sanders and other Democrats are now taking BLM seriously and listening to their concerns.
BobS
@Suzanne: No offense (well, maybe a little), but people here are fucking dense.Why do you all (especially the sanctimonious Omnibus, who’s never sniffed a lure he can resist) care so much about what some anonymous dumb-fuck on the internet thinks about the behavior of some asshole kids at a couple of obscure events that most Americans are completely unaware of? Especially when he’s just essentially told you he’s basically fucking with you? Is it so fucking important for you to prove to yourselves that Black Lives Matter to you more than they matter to the next guy?
The Raven on the Hill
@Mnemosyne (tablet): it worked because Sanders was already on their side. He has a 50 year history of supporting people of color.
Suzanne
@Mnemosyne (tablet): Word. I have objected to those who have complained that BLM is “targeting” Sanders, because they think that BLM is “going after the wrong guy”. Um, no. They probably think he’s the most likely to listen to them, given that he has a history of supporting civil rights. They’re educating him because they think he will listen, unlike the klown kar, who will not listen in the slightest and in fact enjoy being petulant dickweasels. They’re looking to gain prominence and get attention in front of ostensible allies. And it worked. Lefty politics has been completely wrapped around this axle for weeks.
@BobS: You’re right. I don’t care what you think.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@The Raven on the Hill:
And yet Los Angeles was the first time that BLM activists were asked to speak at a Sanders rally. So he may have been supportive before, but he obviously didn’t think it was a priority. Now he does.
Hopefully his supporters will be smart enough to figure out the same rather than continuing to bitch about how mmmmeeeeaaaannnn the protesters were to poor, innocent Bernie and how they just don’t understand why people who are upset that their friends and family members are being beaten and killed won’t stand aside and wait their turn.
The Raven on the Hill
@Mnemosyne (tablet): they could have asked, before they shouted him down. BlackLivesMatter has sent two messages here: one, to black people, that Sanders is their opponent and, two, to politicians, that they are not reliable political allies. The combination may have doomed Sanders and delayed justice BlackLivesMatters seeks. Police reform is going to be bloody hard, and to succeed its advocates are going to have to be strong allies. This is a poor beginning.
redshirt
So it’s like we have a new rotation of trolls.
srv and Steve from Antioch are the 1-2 pitchers.
Goblue72
@Raven on the Hill: sorry – that was meant for Right to Rise.
Plantsmantx
@Mnemosyne (tablet): BLM activists didn’t speak at the Los Angeles rally Some news source, I don’t remember which, misidentified his newly-hired press secretary Symone Sanders as a BLM activist.
Plantsmantx
@Suzanne: I don’t think BLM has targeted Sanders. It’s just that the bitter arguments that have arisen between BLM supporters and Sanders supporters have kept the spotlight on sanders in a way that wouldn’t have happened otherwise.
Thoughtful Today
Some background:
Sanders was arrested aggressively pushing for racial justice in the early ’60’s, he didn’t just show up for the marches. As to ‘what he’s done lately’:
Bernie had contacted a Black Lives activist, Symone Sanders, shortly after the Netroots protest and hired her almost immediately as his National Press Secretary.
That was before the Seattle protests.
As I understand it, Symone helped him refine the racial justice plank that’s now a key part of his Presidential platform:
https://BernieSanders.com/issues/racial-justice
The protest in Seattle was at a ‘Social Security and Medicare’ celebration that Bernie was invited to (Bernie supports expansion of both programs).
Later that evening, still in Seattle, Symone spoke eloquently on Black Lives matter issues before 15,000 supportive Bernie fans in Seattle, the next day to 28,000 in Portland, and the day after that to 27,500 in Los Angeles.
Symone Sanders speeches are on Youtube, this was her speech at Bernie’s Seattle rally: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXbmwqCMRAY
Thoughtful Today
corrected:
Sanders was arrested for aggressively pushing for racial justice in the early ’60’s
——–
More:
“20 ways Bernie Sanders has stood up for civil and minority rights: From fighting segregation to standing against police violence, Sanders has a record of fighting on these issues.”
http://www.salon.com/2015/07/22/20_examples_of_bernie_sanders_powerful_record_on_civil_and_human_rights_partner
…
“2. Being Arrested For [fighting for] Desegregation: As a student at the University of Chicago, Sanders was active in both the Congress on Racial Equality (CORE) and the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC).”
“In 1962, he was arrested for protesting segregation in public schools in Chicago; the police came to call him an outside agitator, as he went around putting up flyers around the city detailing police brutality.”
Mike in DC
I do think that the approach should shift from confrontation to conversation as those confronted engage constructively with BLM. To the extent that some political leaders have not yet engaged constructively, the tactic of confrontation should likely continue, because backlash notwithstanding, it appears to be getting desired results. Could the confrontation be refined a bit ? Sure, but as an outsider, not my call.
Mike in DC
Incidentally, I think it might be a very good thing for Bernie to ask his more vociferous and overzealous supporters to chill out a bit when it comes to BLM, Clinton and people who are not fully aboard the BERN-ADO just yet. Just a little comment in a speech, or an email would likely work great. If nothing else, it distances him from some of the nonsense.
kc
@Mnemosyne (tablet):
I know his campaign spokesperson, Symone Sanders, spoke at that rally. Which BLM activists spoke, Mnemo? I couldn’t find their names.
FWIW, there are (Black) people on Twitter saying that the Sanders and Clinton campaign reached out to the BLM org before the recent events & were rebuffed.
Lee
I know I’m late to this thread, but I do want to comment on a vague recollection.
A decade or so ago the Swedes denied extradition because them deemed our prison system inhumane. I’ll head to Google to see if I can find the story.
Here is a current story, but I know it has happened before.
http://theantimedia.org/cassius-methyl-ireland-refuses-extradite-man-inhumane-us-prison-system/
Thoughtful Today
!
Symone Sanders was as a Blacks Lives Matter activist before meeting Bernie Sanders and becoming his National Press Secretary.
Bernie met her, had an hour long discussion with her and hired her immediately. As I understand it she worked with him on his racial justice policy. She’s spoken directly to his audience about Black Lives Matter issues. I assume she’s working with Bernie on reaching out to those addressing those issues.
Bernie’s outreach includes this, yesterday: https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/633299592365350913
Bernie’s taking his campaign to South Carolina this Friday August 21 in Greenville and Columbia.
Saturday August 22 he’s in Sumter and Charleston, South Carolina.
Bernie may also be on Jesse Jackson’s radio show this Sunday August 23.
Thoughtful Today
corrected:
Symone Sanders was a Blacks Lives Matter activist before meeting Bernie Sanders and becoming his National Press Secretary.
Thoughtful Today
If I’m understanding Jesse Jackson’s twitter feed, his radio interview with Bernie Sanders may have been Sunday morning?
https://twitter.com/RevJJackson
Paul in KY
Saw Janelle play on What Stage at Bonnaroo last year. One of the best sets I have ever seen. Man, that girl has got IT!