You’ll Have To Pry These Marriage Licenses Out Of My Cold, Dead Laser Printer

Meanwhile, the saga of the quixotic enigma that is the Rowan County, Kentucky Clerk’s Office continues.

A federal judge on Wednesday ordered Rowan County Clerk Kim Davis to resume issuing marriage licenses despite her religious objection to same-sex marriage, but Davis quickly filed an appeal and continued her refusal to issue licenses.

Davis will ask Bunning to stay his injunction while she appeals it to the 6th Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals, said her attorney, Roger Gannam.

On Thursday morning, Rowan County Deputy Clerk Nathan Davis turned away David Moore and David Ermold, refusing to issue the men a marriage license.

“Kim Davis is resolute in vindicating her rights,” said Gannam, senior litigation counsel at Liberty Counsel, a religious advocacy group. “Fundamentally, we disagree with this order because the government should never be able to compel a person to violate their sincerely held religious beliefs.”

The martyr-splosion that the GOP wants here won’t happen until Davis is fired or otherwise removed from office, and the instant that happens, it’s PERSECUTION OF CHRISTIANS BY GAY LIONS or something, not to mention an immediate headache for AG Jack Conway, who is busy both A) suing the hell out of the EPA to show he’s tough on that Obama fella, and B) trying to actually save the state from Matt Bevin as governor.
Anyhow, something’s got to give here, the county hasn’t issued any marriage licenses since the SCOTUS ruling came down in June, so we’ll see what current Gov. Dinosaur Steve Beshear decides to do about it. I still stand by my prediction that this case is destined for SCOTUS somehow.






155 replies
  1. 1
    Mike J says:

    I really wish the county clerk would stop discriminating against christian churches that want to celebrate same sex marriages.

  2. 2
    Patricia Kayden says:

    If you’re such a bigot that you cannot do your job duties, you should be fired and replaced with someone who can perform the required job duties. This is not a complicated situation. Ms. Davis can get a job where she can be as homophobic as her 4 times married self wants to be.

  3. 3
    Culture of Truth says:

    I can’t imagine the Court would bother itself with this petty ridiculous nonsense. They read the briefs, they heard the arguments, they ruled. It’s over.

  4. 4
    Jeffro says:

    Why can’t these folks follow their own line of thinking through to its logical conclusion: if an atheist gets that job, should Christians be denied marriage licenses? No? Why not, exactly?

  5. 5
    MattF says:

    @Culture of Truth: I agree. This is a settled question, in every relevant sense of the words that I can think of.

  6. 6
    clone12 says:

    Oh that’s how it works? Then as an atheist/agnostic I’m revoking the tax exemption statuses of all churches the second I get hired as the data entry specialist for the IRS.

  7. 7
    dedc79 says:

    It’s annoying as hell, but overall I’ve been pleasantly surprised by how smoothly this is going nationally. Sure there are a few holdouts, but since there’s no longer any actual legal question, we’re just waiting on a couple of asshats like Davis to exhaust their appeals.

  8. 8
    Humboldtblue says:

    There is no way this case goes any further, it’s the Liberty Institute representing her. She signed a contract with the county not with Jesus and she refuses to do her sworn duty. She’ll either do the job, find some sort of accommodation or get fired, sue, and lose.

  9. 9
    Peale says:

    @MattF: yep. It may be settled, but that doesn’t mean that marriage in certain states and counties won’t require an attorney for awhile. It’s one of those things that makes same sex marriage a little bit different. Reminds me of all those lawsuits welfare advocates had to go through to get states to actually make those programs accessible to everyone who was eligible.

  10. 10
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    I will note that Judge Bunning is a thoughtful and very bright judge. And in spite having a wingnut uncle of spectacular distinction, quite reasonable for a judge of his stripe. I’ve not appeared in front of him, but I was tremendously impressed with him during his AUSA career, when I had occasional cases he was on.

  11. 11
    Amir Khalid says:

    Two questions:
    — Are the Rowan County Clerk and her deputy related? The story doesn’t say.

    — Would the Court of Appeals even hear the appeal? It seems more likely to be dismissed out of hand.

  12. 12
    Shakezula says:

    LOL.

    because the government should never be able to compel a person to violate their sincerely held religious beliefs.”

    Provided we understand Person = Christian who is being mean to people, amirite?

    I can’t imagine the Court would bother itself with this petty ridiculous nonsense. They read the briefs, they heard the arguments, they ruled. It’s over.

    To force people who are violating people’s rights to cut it out. Laws that aren’t enforced are useless.

    We still have cases about racial discrimination, so obviously a ruling and a law and even the National Guard escorting kids to school isn’t enough for some people to get the hint.

  13. 13
    scav says:

    Expecting Xians to obey a law they don’t approve of, whatever next? That’s just sharia law that is! Communism! With jack boots on! If my god tells me to sacrifice my son instead of a lamb for Sunday bruch, then that there governament’s got no damed business to tell me otherwise, no how.

  14. 14

    Just curious, did she quiz all prospective marital couples about their past and refuse to issue a certificate to anyone who was previously divorced for a reason other than their partner’s infidelity?

    No?

    Then she doesn’t have religious convictions about marriage and needs to do her fucking job.

  15. 15
    Howard Beale IV says:

    Is KY a right-to-work state?

  16. 16
    srv says:

    Whaaaaaat?

    Ben Carson defended the use of fetal tissue for medical research Thursday, after a blog published excerpts of a 1992 paper describing work the neurosurgeon-turned-presidential candidate carried out using aborted fetuses. In an interview with the Washington Post, Carson called the revelation “desperate,” and ignorant of the way medical research was carried out.

    I’ll have to rethink Trump/Carson now.

  17. 17
    WereBear says:

    @Jeffro: Why can’t these folks follow their own line of thinking through to its logical conclusion

    Because they never do that. It would ruin their whole thing they got going there!

  18. 18
    Kropadope says:

    She can meet her Constitutional obligations if she simply refuses to issue any marriage certificates whatsoever. Somehow, I don’t think the head of licensing, would be on board with that, though.

  19. 19
    Shakezula says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    — Would the Court of Appeals even hear the appeal? It seems more likely to be dismissed out of hand.

    My knowledge beyond state level is weak but even when a court dismisses a case, it hears arguments from both sides. It doesn’t just stamp DENIED on the filing.

    And frankly an appeal provides a court the opportunity NO WE REALLY MEAN IT AND HERE’S WHY. That makes it easier for the court the next time and also creates precedent for anyone who is denied the right to marry.

  20. 20
    RaflW says:

    F*K google adsense. I think this is the first time I’ve landed at BJ and had a video with audio start the moment the page loads. Holy hell I hate that. I know adsense targets particular people (this was for some samsung product) but if there is a way for the bloghosts to tell google to f*k off with the video/audio ads, I’d be most obliged.

  21. 21
    kc says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    She’s been married 4 times, for real?

    These people …

  22. 22
    kc says:

    @srv:

    How awkward.

  23. 23
    CONGRATULATIONS! says:

    She can meet her Constitutional obligations if she simply refuses to issue any marriage certificates whatsoever.

    @Kropadope: They tell me, libtard, how is she going to find Husband #6?

    Jesus works in mysterious ways, and sometimes those ways involve marrying six different men. Who are we to judge?

  24. 24
    Another Holocene Human says:

    WTF

    http://www.nydailynews.com/new.....-1.2323984

    Chelsea Manning’s getting dumped back into solitary for a “contraband” copy of Vanity Fair with Caitlyn Jenner on the cover.

    I don’t understand USMC, but come on.

  25. 25
    RaflW says:

    If the clerk has objections — quit! Or wait for the smackdown from the courts.

  26. 26
    Brachiator says:

    the government should never be able to compel a person to violate their sincerely held religious beliefs.”

    Is this in the secret section of the Constitution?

    @Jeffro

    Why can’t these folks follow their own line of thinking through to its logical conclusion: if an atheist gets that job, should Christians be denied marriage licenses? No? Why not, exactly?

    They would say that atheism is not a sincerely held religious belief. Atheists are crypto-Christians throwing a temper tantrum because they are angry at Baby Jebus. Or something,.

  27. 27
    Adam C says:

    Note to mods: you’ve got an autoplay ad from Samsung Mobile going on.

  28. 28

    I still stand by my prediction that this case is destined for SCOTUS somehow.

    No way will the Supreme Court grant cert.

  29. 29
    NotMax says:

    The arc of justice is not devoid of speed bumps.

  30. 30
    redshirt says:

    My religion forbids bigots. DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT GOVERNMENT!

  31. 31
    Cervantes says:

    I still stand by my prediction that this case is destined for SCOTUS somehow.

    OK, and nothing is impossible, but the odds are about 99% against you.

  32. 32
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @RaflW: Adsense is crap. They could have tiers, with text only, text and static image only, text and GIF, and finally videos, but they don’t.

    They are on my bad actor list and get blocked. Too bad so sad.

  33. 33
    Cervantes says:

    @Another Holocene Human:

    Perhaps you mean UCMJ.

  34. 34
    Cervantes says:

    @Kropadope:

    She can meet her Constitutional obligations if she simply refuses to issue any marriage certificates whatsoever.

    That is precisely what she has been doing: not issuing any licenses.

    And it’s not kosher.

  35. 35
    Snarki, child of Loki says:

    “the government should never be able to compel a person to violate their sincerely held religious beliefs.”

    Oh, what a stinking pile of BS!

    They violate MY ‘sincerely held religious beliefs’ by making it illegal to plant a sharp ax in the noggin of annoying christianists, by Odin!

  36. 36
    scav says:

    @Another Holocene Human: I mean, her toothpaste had expired!!! The nerve!

  37. 37
    Botsplainer says:

    @Humboldtblue:

    There is no way this case goes any further, it’s the Liberty Institute representing her. She signed a contract with the county not with Jesus and she refuses to do her sworn duty. She’ll either do the job, find some sort of accommodation or get fired, sue, and lose.

    She’s an elected official, not an employee.

  38. 38
    JPL says:

    @kc: There are several articles if you google kim davis married four times.

  39. 39

    And Donald Trump/Ben Carson gain another pile of voters.

    The GOP base demands that their party and candidates deliver the impossible. When they fail to do so (because it’s impossible) the base turns on the party and anyone who was in office and goes to the outsiders – Trump and Carson.

    One of Obama’s better traits was that even when the left was demanding the impossible (single payer, yo) he never promised it and often tried to talk us down from that particular ledge. One of the reasons the Democratic party is holding up reasonably well is that our leaders have done a decent job of managing expectations. That’s why our fringe isn’t anything like the fringe on the right. Our manifestation of ‘bring us the impossible’ is Bernie, who is at least tapping into an impossible goal that most American’s want. He at least has the masses on his side in way that Trump and Carson do not.

    But the GOP promising that everyone will be protected from their sincerely held religious beliefs is such complete bullshit. The KKK had plenty of sincerely held religious beliefs that usually involved hanging people from trees. Iran has some sincerely held religious beliefs that Israel should not exist.

    Someone should also remind the GOP that the rights enshrined in the constitution do not apply to the employer/employee relationship. Even as a government official you do not have the first amendment right to tell your boss to suck a bag of dicks. You won’t be arrested for it (that would violate your first amendment rights), but you will no longer be a government official.

    The constitution does not protect your right to not do your fucking job.

  40. 40
    CONGRATULATIONS! says:

    I’d like to just submit the observation that this woman is an anarchist, who really is running with the now famous Republican motto: “I got a right to have whatever I want and that’s it.”

  41. 41
    Davebo says:

    Beshear should have stepped in and ended this a month ago.

    Ironic that a woman on her fourth marriage is now so picky about who can make a “solemn vow till death to you part”.

  42. 42

    @Botsplainer:

    She’s an elected official, not an employee.

    And she is violating the oath of office she took as an elected official. She should be held in contempt and removed from the job.

  43. 43
    Kropadope says:

    @Cervantes:

    That is precisely what she has been doing: not issuing any licenses.

    OK, I couldn’t tell from the excerpt.

    @Snarki, child of Loki:

    “the government should never be able to compel a person to violate their sincerely held religious beliefs.”

    What about my sincerely held religious belief that I shouldn’t pay to bomb Middle Easterners.

  44. 44
    Kropadope says:

    @JPL:

    There are several articles if you google kim davis married four times.

    Since she’s handing out the licenses, could there be a conflict of interest there?

  45. 45
    rikyrah says:

    Fire these mofos. Plain and simple.

  46. 46
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @Cervantes: Yeah. See, I told you I wasn’t up on it.

  47. 47
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @Kropadope: The real question was that serially or all at the same time, that way we can tell if she is the right or wrong kind of Christian.

  48. 48
    rikyrah says:

    I honestly believe Trayvon was the 8.5 quake on the San Andreas Fault for Black people.
    ………………………….

    Q&A: Sybrina Fulton, Trayvon Martin’s Mother, on the Black Lives Matter Movement, Racial Justice, Gun Violence, and Why She’s Not Ready to Forgive.
    By Margaret Hartmann August 13, 2015

    Black Lives Matter is, in a sense, Trayvon Martin’s legacy. The hashtag first began appearing when George Zimmerman, the neighborhood-watch volunteer who fatally shot the 17-year-old as he walked home in a small Florida town, was acquitted in July 2013. While Zimmerman walked free, Trayvon’s parents, Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fulton, found themselves at the forefront of an urgent new national movement that has only been fueled by a series of other shootings of black youth by the hands of police, as well as several deaths while in police custody. Fulton, at first unwilling to be a spokesperson, has since grown into her role, traveling around the country to speak about racial violence on behalf of the Trayvon Martin Foundation, and connecting with the “Circle of Mothers,” women who have lost children to gun violence. This week, one year after Michael Brown’s death and more than three after Trayvon’s, Fulton spoke with us about healing, justice for her son, and why, for her, there is no moving on.

    Since Trayvon’s death, we’ve seen story after story about the murder of young black men and women. What is that like for you?
    It hurts every time I see another tragedy in the news. I feel for those families, I can understand that mother’s cry, and that father’s yelling. I can understand those things because I’ve been through it, and I’m still going through it years later. The pain is so fresh, it’s like it never goes away. It’s better at some times, but it never goes away.

    With the Foundation we reach out to the families but I don’t like to get involved prior to the funeral. I usually wait until after they have buried their loved ones. Then either Tracy or I, or sometimes both of us, will fly to that city and just show that family support and love. In the past year I’ve met with the families of some of the high-profile victims like Sean Bell, Amadou Diallo, and Ramarley Graham in New York; Hadiya Pendleton in Chicago; Oscar Grant in Oakland; Michael Brown in Ferguson; Tamir Rice in Cleveland; Jordan Davis in Florida — the list goes on. Last week, I met with Sandra Bland’s mother and sister. It’s just unfortunate, the shoes they have to walk in and the journey they have to take.

    I have a group called the Circle of Mothers that brings together mothers from all over the United States who have lost their children to violence. We had a retreat in May. It was an opportunity to be in the same room and to say to each other, “I know how you feel.” I noticed that women tend to heal in a different manner than men, so I felt that it was necessary for women to come together and heal together, laugh together — to try to take the grieving process, absorb it, and realize that this is a stage and we have to move to the next step. We have to do something with that grief, we have to do something with that pain, and that hurt, and that disappointment. I want to give mothers a way to remember a child that has been a victim of senseless violence.

    http://nymag.com/thecut/2015/0.....given.html

  49. 49
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @🚸 Martin: Reducing income inequality is not impossible. We did it before. It’s just going to be a tough, long slog. Bernie is proving there is a lot of enthusiasm for that. More I think than for “inequality and more of it” which is what JEB! and Walker are selling.

  50. 50
    Kropadope says:

    @Another Holocene Human:

    The real question was that serially or all at the same time, that way we can tell if she is the right or wrong kind of Christian.

    Don’t you know how un-Christian it is to question the credentials of Real Christians (TM)? Just follow the Bible, she can have as many spouses as she wants. Or would she have to be a man to do that?

  51. 51
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @Kropadope: Well, you know there is that whole dialogue of Jesus with the woman at the well, so, really, if Jesus could kick it with a bigamist, who are we to judge?

  52. 52
    mtiffany says:

    “Fundamentally, we disagree with this order because the government should never be able to compel a person to violate their sincerely held religious beliefs.”

    Except when those beliefs are sincerely held by a woman and they concern her right to bodily autonomy.

  53. 53
    scav says:

    @Another Holocene Human: What you doing dragging that hippy into this? We’re talking about pious xians, not long-haired enablers of people without their own fish!

  54. 54
    Humboldtblue says:

    @RaflW: adblockplus should solve any issues you have.

  55. 55
  56. 56
    Redshift says:

    @Another Holocene Human: And Rand Paul, who insists that the only cause of inequality is that some people work harder than others. That’s what Ayn Rand tells him, so it must be true, QED; he doesn’t need your stinking “evidence.”

  57. 57

    @Eric S.:

    From your brother

    Nit: that’s from his uncle, since he’s the child of Loki.

  58. 58
    Peale says:

    Glad to read that there are opposite sex couples involved in the suit. Was worried there for a moment that everyone agreed to just let the gay couples lead a lawsuit that affects everyone. You know, like the way that school cancelled it’s prom so that a lesbian couple wouldn’t be able to attend, then secretly had a private, invitation-only, secret, don’t call it prom, dance, I’d be worried that there is social pressure on the straight couples to just leave this good Christian alone and go to another county seat to get a license and not rock the boat on behalf of the same sex crowd.

    I do wonder if one potential outcome in the resisting states…avoid the lawsuits from the gays that you’ll lose by only issuing licenses to same sex couples…has ever been proffered.

  59. 59
    NonyNony says:

    @Another Holocene Human:

    It’s just going to be a tough, long slog.

    The next President that gets elected on a platform of “We can change America for the better, but it’s going to be a tough long slog.” will be the first. Americans don’t tend to like to hear that problems are hard to solve – they like to think that they can elect “the right person” to the job then they’ll “take care of it”.

  60. 60
    boatboy_srq says:

    @Jeffro: Because atheists would never be given positions of authority in a Gud Xtian Ruhpublic™. They should be happy they aren’t carted off to FEMA camps for their unAhmurrcanism™.

    /snark

  61. 61
    boatboy_srq says:

    @mtiffany: What about the foetus’ sincerely held beliefs?

    /snark

  62. 62
    NonyNony says:

    @Roger Moore:

    Nit: that’s from his uncle, since he’s the child of Loki.

    Deeper nit – that’s from his cousin, because Odin and Loki were blood brothers. (Stan and Jack didn’t care much about actual mythology when they were using it as source material for their comics.)

  63. 63
    Eric S. says:

    @Roger Moore: Good point. I’m weak on my Norse pantheon.

  64. 64
    mtiffany says:

    @RaflW:

    had a video with audio start the moment the page loads. Holy hell I hate that.

    Why do you hate America and our God-ordained capitalist society? Do you enjoy making the baby Jesus cry? Must be some sort of communist queerosexual.

    I second Humboldtblue’s suggestion. Adblock Plus is delightful.

  65. 65
    burnspbesq says:

    the government should never be able to compel a person to violate their sincerely held religious beliefs.”

    Tell it to the seven Courts of Appeal that have, unanimously, held that requiring religious organizations to sign a piece of paper telling HHS that they don’t want to pay for contraceptives for their female employees doesn’t impermissibly burden their exercise of religion under the RFRA.

    If she appeals, she and her counsel should get sanctioned out the wazoo for filing a frivolous appeal. Clowns.

  66. 66
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @NonyNony: Cue the tears of firebaggers during the Summer of 2009.

  67. 67
    Kropadope says:

    @Eric S.:

    Good point. I’m weak on my Norse pantheon.

    I tried reading up on it once. It was pretty…is opaque the right word? ETA: Arcane? Obscure? Eh, just difficult to follow.

  68. 68
    burnspbesq says:

    @🚸 Martin:

    She should be … removed from the job.

    By whom and under what authority?

  69. 69
    mtiffany says:

    @boatboy_srq:

    What about the foetus’ sincerely held beliefs?

    Their sincerely held beliefs only extend so far as believing they have a right to feed off the precious bodily fluids of their host (filthy moochers) and feast on their own urine and feces (mooching filthers) in perpetuity. That’s why they cry when they’re born. Better for us to be rid of the whole lot of them I say. Mandatory abortions for everyone!

    /snark

  70. 70
    scav says:

    They could build a whole local economy off their exclusivity.

    You may think your marriage is real and sanctified and recognized by the society that matters, but is it?! Remove all care and accept nothing but the Rowen County Kentucky Clerk Seal of Marriage Approval! Sole arbitrator of all that is wed! Display our wall-mounted 14-karat engraved collectable plaque with pride.

  71. 71
    Kropadope says:

    @Another Holocene Human: Amen. Even still, I’m pretty sure I remember Obama discussing how things won’t be done overnight and that he can’t fix the world by himself (roughly paraphrasing).

  72. 72

    @Peale:

    I’d be worried that there is social pressure on the straight couples to just leave this good Christian alone and go to another county seat to get a license and not rock the boat on behalf of the same sex crowd.

    Not nearly as much as the pressure on the gay couple to resolve the whole thing quietly the same way. Make no mistake; this isn’t about the gay couple’s practical ability to get a marriage license. It’s about forcing public officials to recognize that gays are equal under the law.

  73. 73
    J.D. Rhoades says:

    @Culture of Truth:

    Remember, these are people who refuse to accept the “ruling” of the Civil War.

  74. 74
    Kropadope says:

    @burnspbesq:

    By whom and under what authority?

    Voters under the authority of the Constitutions of the U.S. and Kentucky.

    Does Kentucky have recall or impeachment?

  75. 75
    trollhattan says:

    @Snarki, child of Loki:
    I have a sincere belief that everybody should give me all the moneys. Do this now.

  76. 76

    @mtiffany:

    I second Humboldtblue’s suggestion. Adblock Plus is delightful.

    I would put in a plug for Flashblock instead. It lets less obnoxious text and image ads through, but blocks flash (and some other video players) including non-ad autoplay videos. It’s fantastic when there’s one of those “we embedded the video but don’t know how to turn off the autoplay” situations.

  77. 77
    B says:

    @Culture of Truth: Yes. First, this is flat-out refusal to go along with a SCOTUS decision, and they’ll hate that.

    Second, the loophole is sooooooooooooo big that even SCOTUS doesnt’ want to go there.

  78. 78
    boatboy_srq says:

    @🚸 Martin:

    The constitution does not protect your right to not do your fucking job.

    THIS.

    The Reichwing screams “religious liberty.” What they demand, though, is religious license..

  79. 79
    burnspbesq says:

    @Kropadope:

    Well, duh, shitforbrains. Martin seemed to have something more immediate in mind. And note that Kentucky is one of the nine states that has no provision for recall of any elected official.

  80. 80

    @Kropadope:

    I tried reading up on it once. It was pretty…is opaque the right word? ETA: Arcane? Obscure? Eh, just difficult to follow.

    Abstruse? Recondite? In any case, I think the Norse myths are a bit harder to follow than the Greek (or Hebrew) ones because the Norse never put a whole lot of effort into assembling the stories into a reasonably coherent whole. They’re just a bunch of stories involving the same cast of characters but with no overall narrative or attempt at consistency.

  81. 81
    boatboy_srq says:

    @mtiffany:

    Mooching Filthers

    Didn’t they open for Recreational Abortionists on their last tour?

  82. 82
    Knowbody says:

    @Cervantes: You can just say “Zandar you’re ignorant and full of bullshit as usual.”

    It’s okay, believe me.

  83. 83
    Kropadope says:

    @burnspbesq:

    Well, duh, shitforbrains. Martin seemed to have something more immediate in mind.

    I mean I did raise the recall/impeachment question. There has to be some way of turning someone out of office who isn’t performing her doodies.

  84. 84
    Another Holocene Human says:

    http://wonkette.com/592872/kid.....ily-values

    You have to read this story. It Gets Worse.

    Yes, this is the guy who did an end run around social services thanks to his powerful friends/position to “acquire” two girls and then when he’d decided they were demon children, “rehomed” them with a child molester.

    “Courage Award”

    His co-awardee is a friend of child molesters too. She fought to make it really hard for minors to get around parent notification/consent rules. The exemption is pretty much for cases where the parent impregnated the girl! Sick, sick, sick.

  85. 85
    Another Holocene Human says:

    What is it with Arkansas and conservative Christianity and child molestation?!

    eta: and all roads lead back to Hucksterbee, also, too

  86. 86
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @Roger Moore: http://www.amazon.com/DAulaire.....0385236921

    D’Aulaire’s is a good introduction to Norse lore, even if it’s kid-sized and leaves some stuff out. You’ll definitely have a good grip on their world, who the big players are, the factions, that kind of stuff.

  87. 87
    burnspbesq says:

    @Kropadope:

    Nope.

    As it currently stands, Kentucky statutory law provides that a county clerk who knowingly issues a license for a same-sex marriage is guilty of a class A misdemeanor and if convicted, can be fined and removed from office. See KRS 402.990(6). That is pretty clearly unenforceable in light of Obergefell, but until the legislature amends the statute, there is no provision for removing a county clerk who refuses to issue licenses for same-sex marriages.

  88. 88
    Another Holocene Human says:

    Ha, I forgot there was a D’Aulaire’s book of Trolls

    Relevant: http://trollway.com/

    Yes, I’ve been. Roadside Americana or perhaps Norvegicana? (You know they said ten thousand Swedes ran through the weeds, chased by one Norwegian.)

  89. 89
    Seanly says:

    @Kropadope:

    But not her Kentucky Constitutional requirements. KY law requires clerks to perform the duties of their office or get fined. Not sure how to get the eventually do their duty though…
    These idiot clerks are more than welcome to quit and find work at Hobby Lobby or Chik-fil-A stores.

  90. 90
    Botsplainer says:

    @Kropadope:

    Does Kentucky have recall or impeachment?

    No recalls.

  91. 91
    RaflW says:

    @srv: No refuge for scoundrels, huh?

  92. 92

    @Another Holocene Human:

    D’Aulaire’s is a good introduction to Norse lore, even if it’s kid-sized and leaves some stuff out.

    That’s actually the one I grew up with. But it still suffers from the problem that it’s building on an unsteady base. There wasn’t an accepted and reasonably consistent list of stories about the Norse gods, so it’s up to the modern writer to put the stories together in a consistent way.

  93. 93
    Kropadope says:

    @srv:

    Ben Carson defended the use of fetal tissue for medical research Thursday, after a blog published excerpts of a 1992 paper describing work the neurosurgeon-turned-presidential candidate carried out using aborted fetuses. In an interview with the Washington Post, Carson called the revelation “desperate,” and ignorant of the way medical research was carried out.

    Well, he is a doctor.

  94. 94
    boatboy_srq says:

    @Kropadope: “ignorant of the way [technical/public-sector/scientific work] was carried out” pretty much describes the Luddite Teahad.

    Dr. Carson, welcome to the other side of the coin. See yon shrieking whingenuts? They’re the ones your campaign is otherwise targeted at. Maybe it’s time to think twice about the other fringey things you’ve been saying. No? Oh, well.

  95. 95
    Cervantes says:

    @Kropadope:

    It begins with a court order.

  96. 96
    redshirt says:

    Loki is the best God out there, hands down.

    Wouldn’t want to worship him though.

    Anyone read Gaiman’s Sandman? Great version of Loki in it.

  97. 97
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @redshirt: No love for Coyote?

  98. 98
    redshirt says:

    @Another Holocene Human: Same idea, isn’t it? Loki seems a bit more tragic and focused though.

  99. 99
    Paul in KY says:

    @Patricia Kayden: She’s trying to have her cake & eat it too. She comes up with these pitiful religious excuses for why she can’t resign. Another clerk who’s agin doing his job at least had the candor to say he wouldn’t resign, as he had a mortgage (job pays $80,000).

  100. 100
    Paul in KY says:

    @Humboldtblue: Getting fired will be somewhat hard, as she’s an elected official. Can be done, but it’s a pain in the ass.

  101. 101
    Paul in KY says:

    @Another Holocene Human: Basically, you reduce income inequality by having the people who own the companies share the wealth by giving out nice raises.

    That’s why we are fucked.

  102. 102
    Paul in KY says:

    @Roger Moore: Excellent point, Roger.

  103. 103
    NonyNony says:

    @Paul in KY:

    Basically, you reduce income inequality by having the people who own the companies share the wealth by giving out nice raises.

    And you can do this pretty easily by slapping a huge tax on income outside the norms. If there were, oh just for funsies, a 91% rate on all income over, just to pull a number out my rectum, $3.6 million/year[*]. Suddenly there is zero incentive to pay anyone working for you more than $3.6 million a year because they’ll only get 9 cents on every dollar – the rest just goes to taxes. And if your investors are also dealing with a rate like that, they’re less likely to want to pull money out either, so that money gets driven back into the business – raising pay for non-CEOs, capital improvements, expansion, etc. (It might also get moved into “non-taxable” bennies for the CEO – like a health spa built on the premises, or a company car – but those kinds of bennies used to trickle down at least to the non-CEO executives, and sometimes farther. So I’d be willing to make that exchange.)

    What we need is a salary cap for executive pay. And we used to have it – it’s a cripplingly painful tax rate on the top bracket.

    [*] Numbers not actually pulled out my rectum. 1954 Ike’s top tax rate was 91% on income earned over $400K. Adjusted for inflation that would be roughly $3.6 million/year. That’s the kind of money we’re talking about here – still a huge gap between the median and the “cap” but not nearly like the income inequality we have now. And that’s why income inequality has skyrocketed since that cap was removed completely under Reagan.

  104. 104
    Cacti says:

    O/T, but in today’s news of “that’s different because of reasons”…

    Turns out that fetal tissue research critic Ben Carson, was formerly fetal tissue medical researcher Ben Carson.

    Medical blogger, Dr. Jen Gunter, dug up a 1992 article co-authored by Ben Carson, MD in the Journal of Human Pathology.

    Dr. Carson published his clinical findings from 17 week old fetal specimens, concerning Colloid Cysts of the Third Ventricle.

    In July 2015, Ben told Megyn Kelly:

    “At 17 weeks, you’ve got a nice little nose and little fingers and hands and the heart’s beating. It can respond to environmental stimulus. How can you believe that that’s just a[n] irrelevant mass of cells? That’s what they want you to believe, when in fact it is a human being.”

  105. 105
    Paul in KY says:

    @NonyNony: I’m talking realistically. Sure, that can be done, but I’m pretty sure it won’t be done, bar some scenario where Democrats have Rooseveltian majorities in both houses.

    Thus, we/someone has to convince the plutocrats that it’s in their best interest to throw some of that money at their employees. That’s why I say we are fucked.

    Edit: back in the robber baron days they convinced them by assassinations & bombings & general strikes, among other things.

  106. 106
    Punchy says:

    @Kropadope: It’s KY. There’s NO WAY voters in that homophobic state are going to impeach her. They’d probably fete her instead. Maybe the State Legy can do something?

    That said, there’s got to be something punitive that arises for a gov’t official that willingly and knowing defies a federal judge’s order, right?

  107. 107
    Belafon says:

    @redshirt: I’ve always thought Bugs Bunny was the best version of Loki.

  108. 108
    Paul in KY says:

    @Punchy: I think it’s the legislature that would do the impeachment. Burns can correct me, if I’m wrong about this.

  109. 109
    PurpleGirl says:

    sincerely held religious beliefs

    How do you test for that? How can you tell that someone does indeed have beliefs and lives by them? Is there something in her actions that will confirm sincerity? Maybe the number of times she’s been married… oh, wait, she’s been married and divorces multiple times to multiple people. So, she believes in serial monogamy, one man at a time. I’m not sure that’s what the Bible means when it talks about marriage, unless you’re referring to the Old Testament and then they mean men can have multiple concurrent marriages.

    shrugs, shakes head…

  110. 110
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @rikyrah: Sybrina Fulton is a hero. Out of all the unjustified killings of Black people where the killer walks off with no punishment, Trayvon’s murder stands out as shocking. At least in the cases involving cops, I get that cops have authority and thus are often not questioned about their misconduct. But I don’t get how a random bastard like Zimmerman could get away with cold blooded murder when he could have avoided the situation altogether (and was told to do so when he called the police).

    Good for Ms. Fulton for continuing to speak out and be heard despite the pain she must still be going through in regard to her son’s senseless murder.

  111. 111
    scav says:

    @PurpleGirl: Even nuns have to obey the law. What is the world coming to?!

  112. 112
    D58826 says:

    OT but example 1 gazillion of GOP hypocrisy from Huffington –

    Famed neurosurgeon Ben Carson says that most medical research can be conducted without using fetal tissue, which has been in the news recently after a series of secretly taped but edited videos showed Planned Parenthood officials discussing how to legally provide aborted tissue to researchers. He has called the benefits of such research “over promised,” and has said the videos have made him wonder “how far we have drifted in terms of our humanity.”
    But according to Dr. Jen Gunter, an OB-GYN and pain medicine physician, the Republican presidential candidate published a study with three other colleagues in 1992 that described using “human choroid plexus ependyma and nasal mucosa from two fetuses aborted in the ninth and 17th week of gestation.”

    He issued a statement that it was different when he did it. Of course it was. IOKIYAR

  113. 113
    randy khan says:

    @Roger Moore: I guess the question is what one means by “will get to the Supreme Court.” A cert petition certainly goes to the Supreme Court, and forces them to decide what to do. That said, I agree that the very likely outcome is that the Court will deny the petition, because there really isn’t any substantial issue here.

    And, I would guess, that in the absence of a provision for her to be removed from office, the only remedies are contempt of court sanctions – fines and sitting in a jail cell.

  114. 114
    RaflW says:

    @Humboldtblue: I appreciate that. On the other hand, I do want the BJ site to be self-supporting, so I don’t mind advertising. I mind b.s. autoplay video ads. Dunno if the mods can do anything about it, but they could at the very least let their advertisers know we think it sucks.

  115. 115
    Woodrowfan says:

    of course they’re discriminating against Christian (and other) churches that do allow same-sex marriages, but hey, that doesn’t count AMIRIT?

  116. 116
    Punchy says:

    @scav: They dont follow law because they have to, they just do it out of habit. They do it out of convent-ion.

  117. 117
    JPL says:

    @D58826: It was also different when Carson received a lot of government assistance. Now a days, they don’t deserve help, like his mother did.

  118. 118
    Hal says:

    So how far does this go? Can a DMV clerk refuse to issue new licenses or id to a gay couple? How about sanitation workers, or city clerks? This woman is a tax payer supported clerk. She is not operating a business out of her garage and if she can’t do her job then she should quit or be fired like anyone else would be for refusing to do their job.

  119. 119

    @randy khan:
    Usually, when people talk about a case going to the Supreme Court they mean there will be a Supreme Court ruling on it. I don’t see that happening unless some stupid appeals court decides to go against Obergefell and say the clerk doesn’t have to issue marriage licenses to gays if they don’t feel like it. Otherwise, I think Roberts (along with the 5 who ruled the right way on Obergefell) will vote to deny cert because he doesn’t want to revisit a lost case and potentially have the other side make an even stronger ruling.

  120. 120
    scav says:

    @Punchy: And yet they so usually traditionally resort to teaching by the rigid imposition of rule(r)! Well, they opted for a life in cells, so be it.

  121. 121

    @Woodrowfan:

    Well, duh, religions that allow gay marriage and other things Christianists don’t like aren’t REAL religions and aren’t covered by the Constitution. Seriously, there are pending lawsuits over mosque construction in Kentucky or Tennessee that actually claim that Islam isn’t a real religion so it shouldn’t have First Amendment protections. Because Jeebus.

    The UU church where we got married 9 years ago had a big “We Support The Freedom To Marry” banner up the day we got straight-married. Now it says “#LoveWins.” Makes me teary-eyed whenever I drive past it.

  122. 122
    shortstop says:

    This is a federal lawsuit. Assuming there’s no stay (or that there is one and the quadruply married but otherwise sooper biblical Ms. Davis then fails on appeal and fails to get SCOTUS to grant cert), is there really no federal remedy when a county employee is claiming to be protected by an (obsolete) state law that’s been superseded by a SCOTUS decision?

  123. 123
  124. 124
    RaflW says:

    @NonyNony: Most of the compensation isn’t salary (or cash bonuses) even now. It’s stock options. The deductibility of which for corporations should be severely limited.

    Add to that a reasonable cap gains tax and we’d be at least heading back towards some sanity in the exec compensation field. Right now capital has every incentive to pay high returns to capital, and no incentive to pay more for workers.

    Even I, who was trained to be a capitalist (B.A. in Finance) can see that the current tax/income/business regime is unsustainable. The Trump-whipped rabble is evidence to me that income inequality is pissiing folks off plenty.

    They are woefully mis-aimed at the moment, but could turn on the rich. It has happened in history, more often than our VSPs may remember.

  125. 125

    @shortstop:
    As I understand it, the remedy if she still refuses to go along after the federal courts rule against her is for her to be held in contempt. She would then face fines and possibly jail time until she relents. IANAL, but it might also be possible to take the federal court ruling to some kind of state court and have her thrown out of office for failing to obey a court order. But honestly, I doubt she’ll push it that far. Most people in her position will grandstand for a while and then fold before they actually suffer personally.

  126. 126
    burnspbesq says:

    @shortstop:

    Contempt is pretty much it.

    Process starts with the judge whose order is being defied issuing an order to show cause. The person to whom the order is directed has to come to court and explain why they aren’t defying the court’s order, or cross your heart and hope to die promise to clean up their act. It’s generally a good idea for the person in question to bring their toothbrush to court, because it the judge doesn’t like what he/she hears, they can order immediate incarceration until the contempt is purged.

  127. 127
    burnspbesq says:

    @SteveKnNKY:

    Saw that a couple of hours ago, thanks.

  128. 128
    bemused says:

    @D58826:

    Carson didn’t foresee that his study using aborted fetal tissue might be a problem for the voters he is courting? What an idiot and a very arrogant one.

  129. 129
    Brandon says:

    Rowan County Clerk Kim Davis

    Rowan County Deputy Clerk Nathan Davis

    Well I’m going to guess that is not a coincidence.

  130. 130
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @Belafon: Bugs is like that other tricksy god, Hermes.

  131. 131
    chopper says:

    @Brandon:

    it’s kentucky. not only are they related, their parents are probably brother and sister.

  132. 132
    Jeffro says:

    @Brachiator:

    They would say that atheism is not a sincerely held religious belief. Atheists are crypto-Christians throwing a temper tantrum because they are angry at Baby Jebus. Or something,.

    True. One of those Duggar daughters as well as that Duck Dynasty quack were actually promoting the idea that there’s no such thing as atheists, because everyone can and does imagine God in their minds. You can’t not think of God (especially when prompted like that) after all. Then they go back to patting themselves on the back about how smart AND devout they are. It’s unbelievable.

  133. 133
    Jeffro says:

    I still stand by my prediction that this case is destined for SCOTUS somehow.

    You know who else is going to SCOTUS? Virginia’s own former Gov, now convicted felon, Bob McDonnell. He thinks a pretty straightforward corruption conviction should be argued all the way to & through the highest court in the land.

    HEY BOB – be a man and do your time!

  134. 134
    Peale says:

    @Roger Moore: although I wonder. If she resigns, does the next clerk who takes over have to follow the decision or be held in contempt immediately, or can he or she declare religious exemption and so the process starts over again. They may be able to keep bigots in office longer than the plaintiffs are willing to stay unmarried.

  135. 135
    Mike G says:

    “Kim Davis is resolute in vindicating her rights refusing to do her job,” said Gannam

    Imagine a DMV clerk who insisted you give a prayer of thanks to Allah before she will issue you a driver’s license. I imagine the rabies-right’s support for civil servants’ imposing their religion on the public would disappear quite rapidly.

  136. 136
    JustRuss says:

    Isn’t Davis personally open to a discrimination lawsuit here? She can’t hide behind the law, because the law says she has to do the opposite of what she’s doing. She’s using her position to force her prejudices beliefs on others to deny them equal protection. IANAL, obviously.

  137. 137
    Jeffro says:

    @NonyNony:

    And you can do this pretty easily by slapping a huge tax on income outside the norms. If there were, oh just for funsies, a 91% rate on all income over, just to pull a number out my rectum, $3.6 million/year[*]. Suddenly there is zero incentive to pay anyone working for you more than $3.6 million a year because they’ll only get 9 cents on every dollar – the rest just goes to taxes.

    Seconded, thirded, eleventy-billioned.

    What we need is a salary cap for executive pay. And we used to have it – it’s a cripplingly painful tax rate on the top bracket.

    Yup. I send this link to most everyone I know, about once a month. Your solution would solve it in a heartbeat.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPKKQnijnsM

  138. 138
    Debbie says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Even more maddening was Zimmyman’s claims of self-defense, yet no mention that Trayvon was also defending himself from an idiot with a gun.

  139. 139
  140. 140
    Spanky says:

    @🚸 Martin:
    Preach it brother!

  141. 141
    TriassicSands says:

    So, it turns out that Christianity is just an excuse for people to be big babies and throw tantrums when they don’t get their way.

    Fortunately, the NY Times has an article up reporting that the state appeals court in Colorado has ruled that a “baker could not cite religious beliefs in refusing to make wedding cakes for same-sex couples.”

    In some ways that seems like a more difficult case than the Kentucky case. The baker is in private business. He’s not a public official like Kim Davis, who needs to be fired for refusing to carry out her official duties. (Then, she can whine her way all the way to the Supreme Court.)

    In Alabama (surprise!) the problem is even worse than in Kentucky:

    In Alabama, probate judges in 13 of 67 counties are, like Ms. Davis, declining to issue marriage licenses to anyone.” — NY Times

  142. 142
    les says:

    @burnspbesq:

    By whom and under what authority?

    You’re the guy who plays a lawyer on the internets, right?

  143. 143
    mtiffany says:

    @burnspbesq:

    As it currently stands, Kentucky statutory law provides that a county clerk who knowingly issues a license for a same-sex marriage is guilty of a class A misdemeanor and if convicted, can be fined and removed from office. See KRS 402.990(6). That is pretty clearly unenforceable in light of Obergefell, but until the legislature amends the statute, there is no provision for removing a county clerk who refuses to issue licenses for same-sex marriages.

    I’m just going to go out on a limb here and assume the last three letters of your handle mean you’re involved with the law rather than horses — doesn’t the Obergefell decision render the Kentucky statute (and similar laws in other states) a dead letter law?

  144. 144

    @Peale:
    I assume that if there’s a ruling, it will be deliberately written to apply to all county clerks, and the next jerk who tries the same thing will be held in contempt immediately. I wouldn’t be surprised if the plaintiffs would also be able to ask for- and be granted- monetary damages from anyone bold enough to try the same stupidity. Judges have notably short tempers with anyone who thinks they have a way of working around established rulings.

  145. 145
    Brachiator says:

    @Jeffro:

    One of those Duggar daughters as well as that Duck Dynasty quack were actually promoting the idea that there’s no such thing as atheists, because everyone can and does imagine God in their minds. You can’t not think of God (especially when prompted like that) after all

    Clearly, they have never seen an episode of Star Trek. The being I might imagine would have no resemblance to a Duggar-approved deity.

  146. 146
    Another Holocene Human says:

    @Brachiator: You know they don’t watch Star Trek because William Shatner asked “Why does God need a starship?” way back in 1989 and that is uncomfortably close to asking why God keeps askin’ for money all the time.

  147. 147
    boatboy_srq says:

    @Another Holocene Human: ROFLMAO. I hadn’t made that connection before. Why does God need a Gulfstream?

    My opinion of ST:TFF just went up a notch.

  148. 148
    Sad_Dem says:

    @Comrade Dread: I came to say this. Jesus spoke out against divorce for any reason other than sexual immorality. If this county clerk who calls herself a follower of Jesus–that fellow who repeatedly admonished us that is not the business of a sinner to judge others–really had any sincere religious beliefs, we wouldn’t know she existed, because she’d just be doing her job, which involves taking coins with Caesar’s face on them in exchange for executing Caesar’s law.

  149. 149
    Brachiator says:

    @Another Holocene Human:

    You know they don’t watch Star Trek because William Shatner asked “Why does God need a starship?” way back in 1989 and that is uncomfortably close to asking why God keeps askin’ for money all the time.

    Hah! You may be right.

    Of course, chariots of the Gods and all that ….

  150. 150
    chopper says:

    @Roger Moore:

    #JustMostKentuckians

  151. 151
    A Humble Lurker says:

    @redshirt:
    The loa beat every other pantheon.

  152. 152
    burnspbesq says:

    @mtiffany:

    Which part of “pretty clearly unenforceable” is causing you difficulty?

  153. 153
  154. 154
    gorram says:

    @Jeffro: Some freedom of religion is more free than others.

  155. 155
    gorram says:

    @JustRuss: Under what laws? What federal laws or Kentucky state-level ones protect LGBT people from discrimination when receiving public assistance or civil services (there is a Kentucky level one for [exclusively state] employment if you’re LGB but not T, but that’s not the same)? Remember, what we got is federal marriage equality without ENDA (among other things).

Comments are closed.