Like Josh Marshall, I continue to feel that Donald Trump drives Republicans batty because he embodies their values so much more purely than anyone else in the field. Whatever Republicans try to say-without-quite-saying, he says into a mic and if anyone questions about it he yells in their face. You would call it a parody, god knows Reince Preibus would like to, but the guy leads in the polls. Even if he only lasts another month there is no way to escape the unflattering light this shines on the party and its base voters.
Take this nugget for example. The conservative media may whore themselves out to whatever powerful interest signs the check, but they apparently expect the sordid business to be handled with a certain level of dignity.
According to four sources with knowledge of the situation, editors and writers at [Breitbart News] have privately complained since at least last year that the company’s top management was allowing Trump to turn Breitbart into his own fan website — using it to hype his political prospects and attack his enemies. One current editor called the water-carrying “despicable” and “embarrassing,” and said he was told by an executive last year that the company had a financial arrangement with Trump. A second Breitbart staffer said he had heard a similar description of the site’s relationship with the billionaire but didn’t know the details; and a third source at the company said he knew of several instances when managers had overruled editors at Trump’s behest. Additionally, a conservative communications operative who works closely with Breitbart described conversations in which “multiple writers and editors” said Trump was paying for the ability to shape coverage, and added that one staffer claimed to have seen documentation of the “pay for play.”
When one gets used to escorting Richard Gere about town, a ‘date’ with George Constanza can be a hell of a shock.
***Update***
Since not everyone watches all the same movies I do.
sparrow
But this is America! We have a free press! None of that propaganda stuff you commies are used to.
Ruckus
That’s a pretty hard knock on George, isn’t it?
Tim F.
@Ruckus: Not if you saw Pretty Woman.
Benw
You can lead a pig to water, but you can’t make it look a gift horse in the mouth.
MattF
Everyone in the ‘dignified’ branch of the Republican party is waiting for The Donald’s wheels to fall off… Problem is that he doesn’t have wheels, he has hinges. Push him and he just swings back at you.
sukabi
Hmmmm, so they’re mad that Truman’s buying coverage that was supposed to be bought for one of the other clowns.
Hahah
KG
I’m honestly amazed by Trump’s run. The first post-debate poll shows him holding steady at 23-24%, and yet he managed to open up ground because Bush and Walker lost support. In the latest (pre-debate) polls in the four early states he’s not only leading, he’s doubling up second place.
If Priebus and what’s left of the GOP establishment wants to stop Trump, they’re going to need to get most of the current candidates to bow out soon. Because if he manages to hold a lead in the polls through Iowa and New Hampshire (and Nevada and South Carolina), and if he manages to win those states (even if it’s with less than 30%) he starts to gain “inevitability” momentum. That’s the nightmare scenario for the GOP establishment: Trump being the front runner going into Super Tuesday.
KG
@MattF:
In construction, those are called bomber hinges. Which just makes it funnier.
Roger Moore
@sukabi:
They’re mad that he’s buying coverage, because it means they can’t bully the people he’s buying it from into turning on him.
Amir Khalid
So Donald Trump is to the Republican party as Dorian Gray’s portrait to its subject.
ETA: Only, the party base likes the portrait.
the Conster
Fox is supposed to be stage managing everything, with the MSM pretending they aren’t. The Donald is disrupting the Fox/media bubble, and shows no signs of giving any fucks, because he has no fucks to give, and I, like them, have no idea what happens next. Deliciously, either does The Donald. When you have no control over someone, and it’s impossible to shame someone into controlling themself, then you just have to wait until they get bored of playing. The Donald doesn’t seem like he’s getting bored, and seems to have fully grokked in his unself-aware way that he’s in control. My favorite part of all of this is that Bill Clinton may have put him up to it.
Cacti
Yep.
Fox News/The RNC are all in on sinking Trump because he’s destroying the GOP’s plausible deniability on wingnuttery.
When he’s solidly leading the field, he can’t be dismissed as a crank or a fringe candidate. And they can’t pull the money plug on him either.
I’m just munching my popcorn and watching with delight.
Roy G.
‘Hey Donald, the jerk store called and they’re running out of you!’
-RNC Clown Car Candidates, in their minds, some time after the debate
beltane
I always figured the only thing that could possibly cause the GOP to rip apart at the seams would be a megalomaniac billionaire unbeholden to Murdoch, the Kochs or any of the other kingmakers. I never thought the billionaire would be Donald Trump because he’s such an obvious clown, but I overestimated the standards of the Republican base.
bystander
The repubs are pissed at Trump for blowing their cover. He doesn’t code his racism or his misogyny. The other candidates all have to dissemble and blather nonsense, elsewise their own racism and contempt for women are too readily apparent.
Denouncing Donald means renouncing their own beliefs in actuality. Luckily each of them is a huuuuuuuge hypocrite, so they’re all quite capable of pontificating and preening. And our media are all too willing to be their microphone since they’re absorbed with narrating the circus in their endless stream of cliches.
smintheus
Their infatuation with Trump also sheds light on another side of the Republican electorate: For all their fake populist anger, they always seem to prefer the scions of privileged families. How often in the past 30 years have they nominated anybody who wasn’t born into extreme wealth?
Answer: Bob Dole in ’96. Otherwise it’s always the kids of well-connected parents with money to burn and as many do-overs as they require in life.
sukabi
@Roger Moore: seems like there’s been a wee bit of miscalculation.
Who knew that one billionaires money is as good as the next.
Matt McIrvin
Trump’s supporters love him for saying all the things that are supposed to be the end of Trump. That’s why they support him! None of those things are going to sink him.
On the other hand, it may be that he’s close to his possible ceiling of support.
But the party is not yet coalescing behind some other candidate. It had looked like it was going to be Jeb Bush up to now. But Bush did really badly in this debate, and some of the hardcore cultural-right guys like Ted Cruz and Ben Carson seem to be on the way up again. So Trump probably has some more time as the frontrunner ahead of him even if he doesn’t crack 27%.
Ruckus
@Tim F.:
I may have to watch it then. Still, compared to T Rump? The money makes up for it? Never understood that level of selling one’s self.
Calouste
@KG: Thing is, who do the GOP want out and who do they want to stay in to take votes from Trump? Bush and Walker are the obvious establishment candidates, but they are both at 7% in the latest poll. Cruz is second, but he appeals to the same asshole demographic as Trump (but with more Jesus!), and he isn’t particularly making friends with the GOP establishment either.
On the other hand, the primaries won’t be winner-takes-all until March 15, which means that a possibly significant number of delegates will go to candidates who will drop out. Or maybe would drop out under normal circumstances but who might now stay in because their delegates give them leverage.
Calouste
@smintheus: Technically I think McCain wasn’t born into extreme wealth, he only got that after he married his second wife. His family was extremely well connected though, specially in the family profession.
bystander
Andrea Mitchell had John Sununu on because who better to consult than a disgraced thief? She stopped working long enough to look up at him and ask what he thought of Donald. Sununu advanced the theory that The Clintons were behind it. Andrea evidently didn’t want to stop what she was doing because she didnt refute him or question him further.
beltane
@Matt McIrvin: The GOP is lacking a “smart businessman” in the field at the moment (Fiorina just doesn’t fit the bill). They want a tycoon, a player, a Randian superhero.
JPL
Jamie Dupree said on the local news that a new poll in Iowa, shows him ahead in that state. I tried to google the Iowa poll but couldn’t find it.
Chris
@Cacti:
As much as I enjoy them losing their goddamn minds, the popcorn is mitigated in my case by the thought that no matter how loony their candidate is, he’ll get at least 45% of the vote in the general. And that it doesn’t take many gaffes from the Democrats to make the score more even.
beltane
I wonder if God has told Mitt to run yet.
smintheus
@Calouste: Admirals are treated like naval royalty; their salaries are quite high as well. McCain was a privileged brat even if he did serve.
Belafon
Women are live-tweeting their periods at Donald Trump to prove menstruation can’t be used against women as an insult.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@smintheus:
Trump may not be from the “right” kind of family, but he was certainly born rich. He started off working for the family’s real estate company and inherited at least $40 million from his father.
Cacti
@Chris:
Enjoy the popcorn in the case of The Donald.
During his ascent on the R side, he’s the lone top tier Republican candidate who has consistently trailed Clinton by double digits in every head to head poll.
Chris
@smintheus:
Authoritarian personality types?
Yatsuno
@beltane: Can’t you just hear that White Horse stomping in the background?
Amir Khalid
@Calouste:
Methinks the party is running out of options. Jeb and Walker are turning out to be feeble candidates. Beyond the candidates you named, there’s only no-hopers like Perry, Christie and Jindal and the fringe candidates. It may have no path to win this presidential cycle, as damaging as that would be to its ideological goals.
smintheus
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): Yep. Point is, he’s leading among Republican voters first and foremost because he’s rich and privileged. His loud @ssholery is a big selling point, but it’s an artifact of his wealth and privilege.
Villago Delenda Est
@Amir Khalid: Their problem is their ideology is toxic, once it’s exposed. You’ll note that some of the candidates, to include Trump, are bashing Wall Street, and that bashing is selling with the teabagger base, who may hate the blahs, but are certainly not happy with the money boys.
smintheus
@Chris: Exactly. Republican voters skew heavily toward the authoritarian side and therefore they worship power, the more arrogant the better.
beltane
@Yatsuno: I’m genuinely surprised Romeny hasn’t made noises about running. Maybe Dick Cheney himself will decide to go for it. That would certainly let the air out of Donald’s tires.
The Thin Black Duke
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”
— H. L. Mencken
Obama was a glorious accident; we’ll be going back to normal, I’m afraid.
gbear
@the Conster:
The really fun part of this is that the RNC is getting the no f*cks to give treatment from both sides. Trump and Obama are both firing off round after round and the RNC is sputtering.
Calouste
@Matt McIrvin: I’m not sure Trump is close to his ceiling of support yet. That would assume he is the last choice for all the supporters of all the other candidates. He could probably pick up quite a few from Carson and Fiorina as the non-politician candidate for starters.
And I doubt anyone is going to drop out soon that is going to make much of a difference in the polling. There are 6 candidates between 7 and 13%, and they are all thinking “it’s going to be me”.
Nothing is going to be the end of Trump any time soon IMO. He has been a well known personality nationally for a long time, not like the 4-week frontrunners like Bachmann and Cain from the last cycle.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
Also, too, it does seem like the national Republican Party is following in the footsteps of the California Republican Party by having their primary voters fall in love with primary candidates who don’t have a chance in hell in the general election. Schwarzenegger is an exception because he was an outcast from the CA GOP who had crossover appeal, but he wasn’t smart enough to pivot to the Democratic side.
True story: here in CA, Neel Kashkari ran a commercial featuring himself firing off an automatic rifle to demonstrate his support for gun rights, and he was the LEAST crazy of the Republicans.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@beltane: Josh Barro flogs that horse a couple of times a day. I don’t know if he’s snarking or not. I don’t know how much support Willard would actually get, but I suspect what really drives him is the idea of the “Mormon Kennedys” Some of my schadenest freude about 2012 was the idea that Mittlet #1 lost his leg up to a political career.
@Calouste: His mother and grandmother are described as “oil heiresses”. I don’t think they had Papa Hensley money, but his mother radiates a kind of amiable privilege, and that story/rumor about her calling up the head of the Naval Academy to keep Punk from being expelled always makes me think of Billie Burke as the matriarch of rich family in an old MGM screwball comedy.
Calouste
@smintheus: Sure, but Admirals are 1%-ers, not 0.01%-ers like the Bush, Romney and Trump families.
Jeffro
@KG:
And yet, if no one steps up and successfully defuses this guy, that’s exactly what will happen. Oh me oh my.
I’m still trying to picture how that happens, and unfortunately none of these clowns (other than Rick Perry and Rand Paul – ehhnt, sorry, try again RNC) has the spine to take him on. Cruz never will – he’s far too close to being exactly what Trump’s base wants. Huckabee doesn’t care, he’s not really in this for anything other than furthering his own grifting opportunities. Christie and Fiorina are easily put down as “losers”.
I can’t see anyone but Rubio and Walker, at the behest of their mega-donors, taking this on…and even then, not for a long while yet.
Fair Economist
@smintheus: McCain was not born into wealth, he married into it. He was born into privilege (son of an admiral,got a cushy ride through Annopolis, and got off from numerous severe errors of judgement), but not wealth.
kindness
It’s just that Pretty Woman is a dated reference. I suspect most of us saw it (what in the 80’s or was it the 90’s?) I had forgotten George Castanza but you refreshed hardly used brain cells.
Fair Economist
Don’t put too much emphasis on that poll from NBC. It’s an online poll, and while supposedly it was using a functional methodology, it’s so different from the earlier traditional polls that you have to be extremely suspicious.
Redshift
I find it hilarious that Breitbart staffers are whining over being overruled by execs because Donald paid them. Despite execs in every form of conservative media constantly dictating stories and terms to ensure pro-conservative smart, you never hear any whining about that.
Like everything else with Trump, the problem isn’t that he’s doing something the rest don’t, it’s that he does it in a crass way.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Jeffro: The scary (for those of us who know just how far right he is) one is Kasich, who in this crowd sounds quite sane. If he isn’t run out on a rail for the Medicaid expansion, he will look “moderate” to general voters.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@kindness:
FWIW, Jason Alexander did the film before he got the George Costanza part on “Seinfeld,” so it’s a little unfair to say “George” was a bad guy in “Pretty Woman.”
dedc79
I hope you were referencing the Bobby Bland original and not one of the later covers.
Redshift
@beltane: Billmon had some interesting comments about how fascists historically seem to prefer leaders who are obvious clowns. No real explanation for it, but there it is.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): I agree he’s scary, I think his weak points are, in order: That Medicaid expansion– he consorted with the Kenyan Demon; he can be a loose cannon; he doesn’t “look like a president”, which I think matters both to authoritarians and low-info swing voters
jl
Anyone expect Trump would operate without making lots of ‘fantastic deals’?
It is his proposal for replacement of Obama care exchanges for the poors: fantastic deals with the hospitals to take care of those who can’t afford insurance. He needs some finger exercises to get ready! He will also negotiate that Mexico will pay for his luxurious border wall that will Solve Everything.
Also, I notice dubious hit pieces on HRC are coming out at a regular pace. Here is one.
Hillary Clinton’s Role in Losing Russia
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-08-10/hillary-clinton-s-role-in-losing-russia?cmpid=yhoo
Jeffro
@Redshift: yeah but those leaders only look like obvious clowns in hindsight. What’s scary is how readily people absorb those clowns’ b.s. – because the leader tells them what they want to hear, and gives them someone to blame for their troubles.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: He is really thin skinned, but he’s not a bulky bully like Christie. I think that goes to your point about “not looking like a president.” But I suspect people outside OH (and many inside, TBH) have no real concept of his temper and how easily it surfaces. Thin skinned is almost an understatement.
Amir Khalid
This assessment (in Salon) that the Donald showed his Achilles’ heel in the first debate seems overeager to write his candidacy off. Bill Curry talks up John Kasich, but Kasich is way back in the pack.
I mean, we already know Trump spouts hateful bullshit, channeling the party base’s dark id, and then stands by it. It got him where he is, and unless he’s improbably lucky it won’t win him the White House. But his downfall in the primary race is far from imminent, given that the professional politicians he’s up against have been so feeble. Trump is going to stick around for a bit more and do some real damage.
Bobby Thomson
@smintheus: I’m not sure how wealthy Admiral McCain was. Walnuts married into money.
Steeplejack
@Calouste:
Not even. You need to make about $400,000 a year to hit the top 1 percent, I think, and the base pay for a four-star admiral is somewhere around $200,000. Even with bonuses and extras they’re not going to double that.
The military brass are the bargain of the MIC.
Redshift
@Jeffro: The problem with “taking on Trump” is similar to the general problem of moderating the GOP to broaden their appeal. It may be necessary for the party’s long term success, but whoever does it is going to torpedo their personal chances. What politician is going to do that? And for ones with enough of an ego to run for president, the problem is even worse.
I think they’re all calculating (correctly) that the one who “takes down” Trump (if they can even figure out how to do that) definitely won’t get his supporters, and there isn’t a clear anti-Trump cohort to be won that would make it worth it.
beltane
@Redshift: In terms of clown qualities, Trump is Dubya’s true heir.
Cacti
@Fair Economist:
John S. McCain, III was the equivalent of a Vanderbilt in the military sphere.
His grandfather was Admiral John S. McCain, Sr. former Deputy Chief of Naval Operations, and a hero of the Guadalcanal campaign.
His father was Admiral John S. McCain, Jr., a submarine commander in WWII, and Commander in Chief of Pacific Operations in the Vietnam War.
They were the only father and son in the history of the US Navy to both reach the rank of full Admiral (4 stars).
From John III’s graduation rank from the Naval Academy (894 out of 899), he was pretty clearly a legacy admission to Annapolis. And his family connections certainly got him into flight school, as his academic standing would have otherwise precluded it.
He came from an extremely privileged background.
Cacti
@Redshift:
A former Reagan staffer wrote in a Politico article that the best thing that could happen for the long term prospects of the GOP is for Trump to win the nomination and get crushed by Hillary, so that the work of defanging Teabaggers from within could begin in earnest.
redshirt
I sincerely hope The Donald is the R nominee because, 1. He won’t beat Clinton, 2. He’ll expose the Republican party as the cesspool it is, and 3. Sadly, he’s the least worst of the bunch.
When you say you’d fear Trump as the nominee, are you not afraid of Walker moreso? Or Cruz?
JPL
@jl: What bull. Clinton was unwilling to appease Putin over the elections and it hurt his feelings. So Putin had no choice but react.
They are going to attack Clinton because she wasn’t willing to to continue appeasing Putin.
Jeffro
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):
Oh, absolutely. He (and, Bush to almost the same extent) does look moderate compared to the rest of these guys. Kaisch’s worse because he looks and sounds much more sincere than Bush and lacks the last-name baggage.
redshirt
Also too, if Trump doesn’t get the nomination, I pray to Supply Side Jesus that he runs a vanity 3rd party campaign.
Heliopause
Trump tweeted this today. Gotta admire the way he’s leveraging that debate question to his advantage.
gelfling545
The problem with Trump spewing bile is that there are still segments of the party who, while they may in fact agree with him, don’t want it stated so plainly in quite that way and may get a bit uncomfortable.
Also, an editor at Breitbart found something embarrassing? Something other than working at Breitbart?
smintheus
@Steeplejack: 200K base salary plus luxurious free quarters and paid servants/chauffeurs. Anyway as Jim pointed out, his family had a lot of money on the maternal side. McCain was never anything less than privileged even before he too married into yet more money.
Jeffro
@Redshift:
I don’t think it has to torpedo their chances, but it would mean calling out the other candidates for being cowardly while also keeping up a sustained attack on Trump for flip-flopping over the years, for being nonreligious, for being unelectable, etc. No way to do that when they’re still at 17 candidates (or even 10) and each candidate is getting 6 minutes to speak per “debate”.
If Reince wants control of his party back, he better hurry up and figure out how to get Christie, Huckabee, Carson, and the entire “kids’ table” off the stage at a minimum. Bush, Cruz, Rubio, and Walker are not going anywhere and I doubt Paul will either.
beltane
@redshirt: Trump would be less of a doctrinaire, Randian wingnut than Walker or Cruz, who are, IMO, the scariest of the bunch.
JCT
Meanwhile Amanda Marcotte just folund a tweet from the Donald from last year where he promulgated the “link” between early vax and autism
“Healthy young child goes to doctor, gets pumped with massive shot of many vaccines, doesn’t feel good and changes – AUTISM. Many such cases!”
He really is the the gift that keeps on giving.
Peale
So “I hate government but vote for me, I’m a lifelong politician” doesn’t actually work when people who hate government are given the choice of not voting for a lifelong politician? Whocouldanode?
craigie
I would like to see that too, and not just because I want a Democrat in the White House. I would also like to see the GOP regain (if that’s the word I want) some semblance of sanity.
Sadly, I don’t see that happening. It hasn’t happened in California, where the GOP is less popular than vaccinations, yet continues not to learn anything.
CONGRATULATIONS!
@redshirt: Well, here we are. I must agree. Trump is not a religious nutcase (Tailgunner Ted, Fuckabee) and he doesn’t seem particularly eager to wreck people’s lives just to show he can (Christie, Walker, Paul). In fact, Trump’s businesses kind of require a very healthy and growing middle class, and I’m sure he’s quite aware of that.
Hate to say it, but everyone else running for the GOP primary would, in actuality, be a WORSE president than Trump.
Which is the most damning comment I could ever make about the GOP.
Oatler.
@Belafon: Can’t wait to see that on Maddow! I’ll assume Tweety & The Reverend won’t get into it much.
dedc79
O/T and apologies if this has already come up in prior threads last night. This is the first I’ve seen of it:
Whatever people think about BLM’s methods, it sure does seem like the Sanders’ campaign has taken note:
Calouste
@redshirt: At least Trump had to make some deals with people opposed to him at some point in his business career. He is not a GOP Governor with a rubber-stamp GOP legislature like Walker or a Senator who can’t even get along with his own party like Cruz.
People who are so afraid that Trump is going to be the GOP nominee and might win never seem to stop to consider which other GOP president out of the current candidates would actually be an improvement.
sigaba
@Heliopause: Trump and Fox are like banker and the guy who’s late on his $1 million interest payment. They both keep each other in business and it’s not clear who owns who at this point, they can have acrimonious exchanges but in the end they need each other too much for there to be any permanent rift. It’s difficult for Fox News to say anything about Donald that isn’t immediately applicable to their own audience, insult him and you’re going to end up insulting the people watching the ads.
In the end they have become ying and yang, we cannot consider them as separate identities but entrained manifestations of a single underlying force.
Peale
@Jeffro: Paul in particular has to be wondering how he lost his father’s supporters. LOL. He was supposed to be the different!
jl
@Cacti:
” so that the work of defanging Teabaggers from within could begin in earnest. ”
I would love for that to happen in the GOP, but who is going to do that? They have cultivated their lunatic primary base voters. Why would the conflict between the party’s long term benefit and individual incentives for candidates change? The gerrymandered House districts will still be there encouraging crazy people, ultra right wing billionaire sugar daddies will still be there.
And at this point, what else can the VSP GOP elders do except pump out fantasy PR BS?
Sounds like the problem of putting the bell on the cat. The crazy teabagger cats in the GOP rank and file aren’t going away. And the crazy will be distilled even further after this cycle’s shit show peels off a few more of the semi-sane, and those still in denial about what has become of their party.
beltane
@Heliopause: Check out that same comment on his FB page. The most liked response says that he should just buy Fox News and keep on Megyn Kelly to clean up and make coffee. I cannot tell if these people are for real or if they’re just trolling.
White Trash Liberal
LOL he’s leveraging a takeover of the GOP. I wonder what he got out of the short-lived Reform Party he helped kill.
Peale
@Calouste: Yep. He’s actually probably the least offensive of the candidates and has probably given more thought to the issues. Yeah that means he says the first thing that comes to his mind, so the thoughts are really just reactions. But that’s more thought than the others give, who are merely looking to Luntz on how to sell things.
rickstersherpa
@Roger Moore: Again, for those brave Galtians at Breitbart, isn’t this their dream world? Didn’t they want us to acknowledge no limits on money? A country where those who pay the piper get to call the tune? Or did they think that in their brave, plutocratic, new world that only minorities, women, and DFHs would be called names and bullied?@Steeplejack:
JPL
@CONGRATULATIONS!: That’s how I feel. He wouldn’t have to do a secret litmus test on judges. I think he’d actually pick some one qualified.
jl
@CONGRATULATIONS!: Problem is that Trump seems to have the same lack of knowledge and understanding of real issues as other GOPers. I will venture that a Trump presidency is not guaranteed to be worse disaster than the others, that is all. It ain’t enough for any comfort.
Edit: Only comfort is that Trump is not rigidly ideological. He would do what works, if he can figure it out, and it doesn’t offend his ego and dignity. That is all I think you can say good about him.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
He’s spoken out for universal healthcare, donated to the Clintons’ campaigns, IIRC said he voted for Obama in ’08 and spoke favorably of the stimulus and other Obama policies in ’09. I don’t know when he started making noise about running for office, if it was always the presidency, but by 2012 his threats to run were enough to get him attention from Fox and the GOP, and get the whole nitwit parade to pay court to him– I remember Cain and Bachman referring to him carefully as “Mr Trump” as if they were contestants on his silly reality show, which in a way they were. The only fleeting moment of respect I had for Willard was when he tried to avoid Trump, and eventually tried to keep his ring-kissing visit quiet. I think both his political relevance and birtherism were fading pretty quick when he jumped on that bandwagon and brought both back. Then Willard brought him on to make robocalls to resentful white men.
Cacti
@jl:
I don’t think it will be quick or easy work, absent some sort of black swan event. But it’s plain that the monster created by 50 years of the southern strategy is devouring the GOP as serious political party either in the majority or as opposition.
At this point, the GOP needs to nominate an unfiltered, true believing, loon, and have him (it would never be a her) get crushed in a general election matchup. Too many of the GOP base believe that they keep losing the presidency, because their nominee isn’t crazy enough.
Jeffro
@Peale: I think Rand made some noises about being inclusive and reaching out to groups other than “old” and “white”. For some reason that didn’t catch fire with Ron’s supporters or the GOP in general. Hmm…let me think about that a bit…
I do like having Rand in the race, mostly to needle my (air quote) “Libertarian” brother and friends. I mean, he’s THEIR GUY, right? And yet so few of them support him; those that do, support him pretty weakly at best. It’s almost like they know how he would do in the general…
Calouste
@Peale: Paul’s mistake was that he started to believe that he was running to win, rather than running to grift the libertarian rubes like his dad. Turns out the Paulites didn’t like it when he went more mainstream, and the mainstream didn’t care about little Rand.
jl
Trump still leads in Iowa poll, favorability up.
Poll: Donald Trump Still Leads Iowa Even After Megyn Kelly ‘Blood’ Comments
” The poll from Democratic-leaning Public Policy Polling found Trump leading the pack with 19 percent among Republican primary voters in the state. ”
…
“Trump’s favorability also increased slightly in the four months since the last PPP poll of Iowa. The latest poll showed him at 46 percent favorable to 40 percent unfavorable. In April, he had an even 40-40 split.”
…
” Dr. Ben Carson and Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker (12 percent), former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush (11 percent) and former Hewlett-Packard chief executive Carly Fiorina (10 percent). ”
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/polltracker/ppp-trump-iowa-gop-debate
mai naem mobile
Hope the Repubs don’t need to resort to ‘fixing’ the Donald’s private airplane,if you get my drift…I’m kind of half serious.
redshirt
@jl:
That’s something!
Given the shit show that is the Republican party, Trump is the least dangerous to America IMO. He’s not a religious nutjob, he’s not beholden to others, and he’s shown in the past that he’s willing to support “Liberal” issues. I bet he’d be relatively moderate if elected. Which he won’t be.
craigie
@mai naem mobile:
Well they are the party of “violence is the answer to every problem.”
And tax cuts, I guess. Can’t forget the magic elixir that is tax cuts.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
As much as I hate Walker and Rubio et al, I get the most pleasure out of seeing Idiot Princeling II of Walker’s Point scrambling to keep up with a passel of cranks, charlatans and below-stairs sorts.
Calouste
@mai naem mobile: Trump has 3 or 4 kids who are old enough to run for President and they are all VPs in his family business. One of them could easily take over the campaign were something to happen to the Donald.
SatanicPanic
@craigie:
Which is weird because the governator wasn’t that crazy. I mean, how hard is it to look back at the last guy who won and try to replicate that?
chopper
@Cacti:
oh, totally. the teabaggers are like the dog chasing the car. someday the car will stop and the dog will catch up and not know what the fuck to do with it.
with mccain and romney they got to complain that the GOP machine took over and lost because they put up someone that wasn’t ‘conservative enough’. but deep down they’re afraid that whatever crazy yard-sleeping fuckbag piece of shit redneck they want to put up will lose even worse.
fuck the idea of giving them what they want. that’ll only help the GOP in the long run. keep the republican civil war going as long as we can.
Jeffro
@jl: @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Bush: how am I fourth at this point?
Rubio: how am I doing worse than Carly Fiorina and Ben Carson at this point??
Cruz: [busy sharpening knives]
Gilmore & Pataki: maybe if we run as a ticket?
redshirt
Scariest Republicans currently running for Prez, ranked:
1. Cruz
2. Walker
3. Paul
4. Bush
5. The rest of the nutjobs who have no chance of winning
Last: Trump
Calouste
@Jeffro: I think Gilmore’s delusion that got him to run for president can’t be measured in earthly units. He hasn’t held an elected position in 13 years and he lost his last election (for Senator in 2008) by 30 points. Of course, the differences with Santorum are really only in the details.
Cacti
@chopper:
I dunno.
One of the two major US political parties being functionally insane is not good for the long term health or viability of the Republic. There’s a festering boil on the body politic that needs lancing.
jl
@redshirt: In a previous thread, I speculated that Trump might have the makings of a himbo Evita Peron. Probably unfair to Evita Peron, but best parallel I can come up with.
Full metal Wingnut
@Calouste: I believe that McCain’s father and grandfather were both Admirals. So, not born into wealth, but no shortage of privilege or connections.
Full metal Wingnut
@bystander: Hey, we have that guy to thank for selling Bush I on David Souter.
redshirt
@jl: Maybe. But he scares me a lot less than Cruz. Cruz terrifies me. Walker too.
Jeffro
@redshirt: How is Huck not #2?
They’re all pretty terrifying. I can’t put all 17 in order, just 3 groups:
GRAB-MY-PASSPORT-AND-RUN: Cruz, Huckabee, Jindal, Carson, Santorum, Perry, Paul, Trump
WAKE-UP-MOST-MORNINGS-SOBBING-FOR-MY-COUNTRY: Walker, Rubio, Graham
RESIGN-MYSELF-TO-4-LONG-YEARS: Kaisch, Bush, Fiorina, Pataki, Gilmore, Christie
redshirt
@Jeffro: Huckabee is terrifying, true, but he has zero chance of winning. He’s running a book promotion tour. I’d put him way higher if he had a chance. Jindal too. And Santorum.
Full metal Wingnut
@Chris: What I’m realizing is that there is no such thing as “lesser evil” when it comes to a modern Republican. Therefore, if we’re going to have a Republican, he (let’s face it, the females in the party are tokens, it’ll be a he) might as well be entertaining.
Kasich might (MIGHT) be *marginally* saner, but that’s it. Trump would probably be most likely to impulsively start a war. I can imagine Putin looking at him funny during a summit. Trump hears some weird sounding word in Russian, and before its translates he flips out and shouts “WHAT THE HELL DID YOU SAY? WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?? TAKE US TO DEFCON 1! FIRE UP THE ICBMS!!!”
But other than those two things I think any republican would be equally disastrous. Might as well be entertained. Dubya’s constant malapropisms made his tenure mildly more amusing.
jl
@Cacti:
” There’s a festering boil on the body politic that needs lancing. ”
The current grifting insane GOP rides on the festering boil of white racism and ignoriance and sexism. And other diverse white bigotries and fears and hatreds, that are becoming more prominent as the white bigots age: against youth, against anything that threatens their bubble, like any science that does not give them free goodies right now and does not preserves their every comfort. And it is made worse by the strategy of creating resentment, since who as been working harder to grind the faces of working and lower middle class whites than the GOP? Sure they work to make the lot of other groups is harder, but not enough money there. So, must pump the most money out of their aging white marks and mislead them into focusing their frustration and resentment onto other groups.
It is sick and dangerous for the country.
Booger
@Cacti: Then married into the family that owned a major beer distributors in Arizona, the Three-tier equivalent of a money-printing press.
Bobby Thomson
@Cacti: privileged, beyond a doubt. But not wealthy.
Tom Q
@SatanicPanic: Schwarzenegger of course only got in position to be the GOP nominee through the wildly out of the ordinary recall process. Soneone with his positions can’t possibly get a statewide Republican nomination these days, even in CA.
Also, I’m not sure wingnuts view him as successful (beyond getting elected). They see him as accommodating Dems way too much in his latter years, and even then seeing the state swing solidly D in his wake.
mai naem mobile
@Full metal Wingnut: I knew somebody who worked with McCain’s dad in the Navy – also high up in the Navy. The McCains may not have been Trump rich but they were very comfortably off. About the equivalent of a specialist physician with a decent practice. This same guy,btw, also lived next door to the Rumsfelds when Don was a kid. He said Don was a self assured (read -pompous) precocious kid who was in a hurry to get places.
les
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Kasich has another problem–he said if he had a gay friend, he wouldn’t shoot him out of hand.
SFAW
I don’t recall you ever inviting us all over for Movie Night, you selfish bastard.
@bystander:
Of course. Because Trump’s been a patsy since Day One. He may not be anything close to a great businessman, but he’s not a complete imbecile, by any stretch.
You know, for a guy who went to MIT, Sunununununununuuuuuuuu is awfully fucking stupid. (Or should that be “excellently fucking stupid”?)
les
@jl:
I missed the part where we ever had Russia.
Cacti
@mai naem mobile:
Whether they were rich in terms of net worth is almost beside the point. In the closed world of the military, flag officers and their families are like royalty.
SFAW
@mai naem mobile:
Marrying money didn’t hurt McCain, either.
“Ma! I need to go invade Iraq RIGHT NOW!”
“Now, Donnie, will you be back in time for supper?”
“Maaaaa! Come ON! You KNOW it’ll take at least 10 years to get out of there!”
“Well, I’ll ask your Father, but I don’t think it’s a very good idea.”
“Maaa!!! You’re ruining EVERYTHING! Georgie and the rest of the guys are waiting for me!”
Jeffro
@redshirt: Oh – I was going on whether/how much they terrify me when I actually try to imagine them in office. Agreed on the ones you noted
Joel
@Cacti: Those H2H numbers are meaningless at this point. If the unlikely happens and Trump is the nominee, his numbers would mirror just about every one of those other (R) candidates’ in the general.
NonyNony
@CONGRATULATIONS!:
I came to this conclusion last week.
It’s the most ridiculous conclusion in the world, but damn the other 16 GOP candidates for office are even more ridiculous. It is truly scary just how crazy the GOP has become (but then we’re talking about a party that put up Nixon, Reagan and GWB as presidential fodder. They’ve been ridiculous for a long time.)
LWA
@mai naem mobile:
I would lay money that there are certain ratfuckers within the GOP who are more than half serious. Karl Rove left some pretty big shoes to fill.
trollhattan
@Bobby Thomson:
By my metric there’s wealth and there’s power and the accumulation of wealth for most is ultimately their pathway to power, a means to another end. An admiral has power de facto, more than most billionaires.
Admiral’s quarters are usually quite nice, are staffed and are paid for by us. Hell, they have entertainment budgets. Whatever an admiral’s salary is, he doesn’t actually need to spend much of it.
Johnny McCain has never known life unsurrounded by sycophants, other than his stint in Hanoi. His prickly demeanor comes quite naturally.
Joel
@The Thin Black Duke: “The Senator was vulgar, almost illiterate, a public liar easily detected, and in his “ideas” almost idiotic, while his celebrated piety was that of a traveling salesman for church furniture, and his yet more celebrated humor the sly cynicism of a country store.
Certainly there was nothing exhilarating in the actual words of his speeches, nor anything convincing in his philosophy. His political platforms were only wings of a windmill. . . Back home, (he) had advocated nothing more revolutionary than better beef stew in the county poor-farms, and plenty of graft for loyal machine politicians, with jobs for their brothers-in-law, nephews, law partners, and creditors.”
— Sinclair Lewis, of the same era.
gbear
@chopper: Worse yet, they catch up to the car while it’s still moving. When I was a kid we had a chihuahua that chased cars and I watched him catch one. (the car won)
SFAW
@trollhattan:
This is something too few people understand.
Matt McIrvin
@redshirt: I think “moderate” isn’t really the issue: I think Trump would probably be gigantically, operatically incompetent if elected. He’d attempt to govern in grand sweeping gestures that would make no sense.
I imagine him being something like Paul LePage in Maine, who thought he could force the legislature to amend the state Constitution to eliminate the income tax just by vetoing all bills until they did it. And then didn’t even know how to veto bills correctly. And then insisted that his way was right and doubled down until the courts smacked him down and said he hadn’t vetoed them at all.
Only, you know, with nuclear weapons!
Peale
@beltane: Romney would poll about as well as George Pataki. I don’t think he’d run to sit at the also ran table with Perry and Santorum.
Joel
@Peale: I mean, Luntz worked for Roger Goodell. Not even Trump would stoop so low.
Peale
@Matt McIrvin: Grand sweeping gestures..although those could be welcome (but expensive!). He’s also send out insults that wouldn’t make much sense either. I mean, look who really complains at a wedding eats to much? I guess if you’re strapped for cash, you might…but seriously, if Donald needed to count the number of shrimp the guests put on their plates, he probably should have shifted the feast to the local American Legion hall. It’s oddly petty.
Heliopause
First a warning, this link is to a Washington Free Beacon page, so don’t click on it and then complain afterwards, but I found it genuinely hilarious.
jl
@Matt McIrvin: I’m pretty sure Trump is a lot smarter, or at least a lot shrewder, than LePage. Not sure whether that would be a good thing or bad thing if Trump were pres.
But, it so early in this election cycle, predictions for GOP primary outcome, and the general, are sill fantasy league politics. Considerably less so for Democratic primary, which is one reason they are getting much less attention from the pundit class at this point, which I think is a good thing so far.
Compared to the Trump Primary Show of Shows, the news readers seem kind of bored by the latest bogus HRC scandal leaked by House GOPers, or Black Lives Matter disrupting a Sanders appearance. The BLM incident in Seattle this weekend actually made the news the other night (I was surprised, and wondered how many viewers would know exactly what this Sanders guy was doing anyway), and they impatiently rushed through it, clearly wanting to reserve time for the really juicy Trump Show follies.
rikyrah
Trump is feeding the base filet mignon.
This is who they are. This is who they love being.
He speaks to them in the ugly language that expresses who they are.
NOT in the preferred Frank Luntz-approved language.
jl
@rikyrah: Trump bestows Class, and Hugeness and Luxury on his followers. He constantly reminds them that they deserve a government that will treat them like guests at his resorts. Service will be delivered, and it will be Fantastic Class service, delivered with Class.
beltane
@jl: Can you imagine how Trump would decorate the White House? It will undoubtedly be a very classy place with hot tubs and those champagne glass baths for two you used to see in commercials for cheap Pocanos resorts.
beltane
This is Huge! Trump is a 32% in a new poll. He broke the barrier! http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-national-gop-primary
boatboy_srq
This is more like a twisted Pygmalion, in which Eliza Doolittle is paying Professor Higgins to take her out in society and listen to her Cockney. Not only has he lost the bet, he’s being made to suffer in public through listening to her speak and watching her behave (both inappropriately to the venue).
trollhattan
@beltane:
Put forward awhile back that the ghey celebration lighting has doubtless given The Donald ideas, lots and lots of ideas on Classy-Making the WH once he moves in. No drapes, either, as the public deserves to be able to view The Donald doing yoooge, classy things at all hours.
beltane
@trollhattan: Bunga-Bunga comes to Washington D.C.! What will Sally Quinn say?
boatboy_srq
@beltane: Have we had a divorced pResident yet? As in divorced and not currently remarried (Saint Ronnie doesn’t fit that bill). I think Trump would be up for a first there.
beltane
@boatboy_srq: He is currently remarried, and his new wife is very, very classy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melania_Trump
trollhattan
@beltane:
45? Am surprised The Donald didn’t dive back another decade or so. Like you said, that’s very classy.
SFAW
@trollhattan:
What’s scary is, that was my first thought, too.
gelfling545
@Full metal Wingnut: While Trump might impulsively start a war, quite a few of the others already have plans to do so.
Mike G
The professional shit-flingers are suddenly very concerned about the ethics of flinging shit at one particular target.
trollhattan
@gelfling545:
Seem to recall his plan to defeat China was to sell them a thirty-two trillion dollar apartment. Mexico will build it and Iran will provide the janitorial. The Russia scheme is more complicated, but involves supermodels.
Chris
@CONGRATULATIONS!:
I had never thought of it that way until you mentioned it, but now that you have, I think you’re right.
@Full metal Wingnut:
Yup.
As far as the entertainment goes, well, there I have to say nothing beats watching them beat the crap out of each other.
Chris
@Calouste:
I’ve been amazed by how weak the Establishment Republican bench has been this time around. McCain had been derided as a RINO for years, but he did all right. Romney was an abysmal candidate, as distrusted by the base as McCain was, in addition to just being a deeply unlikable stiff-ass who hated every minute of pretending to care about the yokels whose vote he was asking for. Somehow the Establishment types have come up with candidates who’re even weaker than Romney. That’s simply incredible.
J R in WV
@Steeplejack:
You don’t understand – Admirals don’t pay for anything. They get everything from the Navy… their salary is all gravy, either for investment or for fun. They get food, staff (Filipino stewards) a staff car, a driver/bodyguard, a residence, a uniform allowance, the benefits are nearly endless.
Thus McCain’s Father and Grandfather could accumulate capital investments every month. They didn’t ever work in Industry, Admiral Senior died 4 days after the Japanese surrender, Admiral Jr died on board a Navy aircraft flying over the Atlantic some years after his retirement.
They both seemed to be good fighting sailors, as opposed to their heir, who never amounted to much as a USN pilot. One, Junior, commanded subs both in the Med and against Japan, while Senior commanded an aircraft carrier squadron with some success.
But I can’t have any respect for McCain III after the way he treated his wives. Calling his wealthy second wife a c##t in front of reporters was so far over the line I can’t imagine why she is still married to the lousy creep. No sense of honor at all. Maybe he used it all up coming home from Hanoi.
Bill Arnold
@trollhattan:
Comfortably above the (Age/2)+7 threshold for different-age relationships.
(69/2 + 7 = 42, rounding up).
SFAW
@Bill Arnold:
Is this a thing? Not that I track that stuff, but I never of that one before.