Charles Koch compares work of his political network to civil rights movement http://t.co/dEKpRV1D4O
— Alan Abramowitz (@AlanIAbramowitz) August 2, 2015
The Washington Post, reporting from an upscale California resort:
DANA POINT, Calif. — Charles Koch on Sunday compared the efforts of his political network to the fight for civil rights and other “freedom movements,” urging his fellow conservative donors to follow the lead of figures such as Frederick Douglass, Susan B. Anthony and Martin Luther King Jr…
Koch told 450 wealthy conservatives assembled in the ballroom of a lavish oceanfront resort here, “Look at the American revolution, the anti-slavery movement, the women’s suffrage movement, the civil rights movement,” he said. “All of these struck a moral chord with the American people. They all sought to overcome an injustice. And we, too, are seeking to right injustices that are holding our country back.”
Koch’s remarks came at the start of a session about the strategy of the network, which aims to spend $889 million on issue advocacy, higher education grants and political activity by the end of next year. As part of the program, which was not open to the news media, officials from Chile gave presentations on the country’s economic and political history.
Koch’s efforts to connect the network’s push for rolling back government regulations to historic civil rights movements is part of a broad attempt to cast the organization as one deeply concerned about the plight of the poor. During his comments at the donor retreat, Koch repeatedly cited the effect of big government on the lower class…
No, it’s not “irony” — these plutocratic monsters actually believe the bullshit they’re peddling (although the weasels they pay to spread their Prosperity Gospel probably don’t). They’re not just fighting for their right to steal everything they can pry lose and break everything that isn’t, they’re fighting to force the rest of us to thank them for their crimes!
"Keep plutocracy alive!"
https://t.co/HcqQFR9sTe
— Billmon (@billmon1) August 2, 2015
@billmon1 I have a dream, that me and my brother would accumulate billions while getting the proles we fleeced to fight over gay marriage
— norbizness (@norbizness) August 2, 2015
.@norbizness "Hegemonic at last! Hegemonic at last! Thank God, almighty, we're hegemonic at last!"
— Billmon (@billmon1) August 2, 2015
Mnemosyne (tablet)
What is it about the born rich that makes them desperate to overcompensate and claim to be “regular folks”? Is it guilt over being born rich? Is it knowing deep down that if they hadn’t been born rich, they’d be lucky to find a job at McDonald’s? Is it pure narcissism and lack of empathy?
Mnemosyne (tablet)
Obligatory musical number:
http://youtu.be/ainyK6fXku0
Roger Moore
Presumably telling them how that bastard Allende had it coming.
srv
Poverty in American and Democrats in the White House… me thinks correlation and causation congrue here.
debbie
How can someone smart enough to make so much money be so delusional?
Kropadope
How can we ever look our children in the eye and say we never did anything to solve the injustice of manufacturers not being free to dump their waste wherever they want?
BillinGlendaleCA
@srv: Try to stop thinking so much.
Smiling Mortician
Aside from everything else, ol’ C-Koch seems to be running for office now. If Trump can do it, why not The Charles?
BillinGlendaleCA
@Smiling Mortician:
I think that works better.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@debbie:
Because he didn’t make that money. His dad did (and I think his grandfather). He inherited it. The Kochs are basically the poster children for “born on third and think they hit a triple.”
retiredeng
@srv: ‘congrue?’
I did never know so full a voice issue from so empty a heart: but the saying is true ‘The empty vessel makes the greatest sound’.
Schlemazel
@BillinGlendaleCA:
Think? Huh, not the word that first came to my mind.
My guess is that there is a solid cadre of 20-something programer and analysts who will buy Chuckies analogy hook, line and sinker. I run into them regularly and they have no clue. They actually believe everything they have came only from their own work and that if the government got out of the way Chuckie and friends would reward them handsomely.
debbie
@Mnemosyne (tablet):
Ah, then cut from the same cloth as Trump, only without the big mouth.
Kropadope
@srv: can’t solve the world’s problems overnight, can we? Especially given the complete lack of cooperation by
anti-American traitorsCongressional Republicans.piratedan
@Kropadope: because if I can’t profit without the misery of others, why bother?
patrick II
Never has being a member of a “freedom movement” paid so well.
JPL
@Smiling Mortician: Didn’t he run on the libertarian ticket before? Time for me to use the google.
nope it was brother David but Charles supported his run
TriassicSands
The injustices that the Kochs are trying to “right” are almost too horrific to even contemplate. Why compared with the “death tax,” slavery is barely a misdemeanor.
(Moderation for the above? WTF?)
BillinGlendaleCA
@JPL: Either Charles or David ran as VP on the libertarian ticket in 1980.
Mike in NC
Looking forward to a hidden video of the Kochapalooza event to surface, identifying dozens of the oligarchs in attendance.
rikyrah
Yes because the poor are being oppressed by all those environmental protections that stop companies like Koch Industries from poisoning them even more.
JPL
@BillinGlendaleCA: Why doesn’t the news media cover the brothers as Libertarian David and Libertarian Charles. ….. Oh never mind.. Our media is dead.
lamh36
Is it bad that I laughed at the Zoolander 2 trailer?
I mean, who hasn’t wanted to say to someone, “Jesus…(dude)…you are so freakin’ stupid”…lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09nTwccQTUA
p.a.
He wants to follow King’s footsteps? I don’t own a rifle, but here’s hoping someone grants his wish.
Smiling Mortician
@BillinGlendaleCA: Yeah, I went back & forth.
Kropadope
@patrick II:
That’s why it’s a two-tiered movement. The Kochs are part of the freedom movement, then they have their followers in the freedumb movement.
Smiling Mortician
And but seriously. Something about the phrasing Koch’s using. It will not surprise me if the Next Big Thing in the GOP nomination process is Charles Koch throwing down against The Donald. That would be so. much. fun.
Omnes Omnibus
See, this is where we get to the contrast part of compare and contrast on the test.
Gimlet
CHUCK TODD: And, again, I know we’re going to get into a lot more issues with you in a couple weeks. But I want to ask you about Black Lives Matter. Do you understand why African Americans don’t trust the police right now?
DONALD TRUMP: Well, I can certainly see it when I see what’s going on. But at the same time, we have to give power back to the police because we have to have law and order. Hundreds of killings are in Baltimore. Hundreds of killings are in Chicago. And New York is not doing so great in terms of that front. And so many other cities.
We have to give strength and power back to the police. And you’re always going to have mistakes made. And you’re always going to have bad apples. But you can’t let that stop the fact that police have to regain some control of this tremendous crime wave and killing wave that’s happening in this country.
ChristianPinko
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed billionaires can change the world.
Kropadope
@Gimlet:
The Donald doesn’t read crime statistics?!? Quelle surprise
dmsilev
@ChristianPinko: Isn’t that the operating principle behind SPECTRE?
Germy Shoemangler
Here is the Libertarian Party platform that David Koch ran on in 1980:
• “We urge the repeal of federal campaign finance laws, and the immediate abolition of the despotic Federal Election Commission.”
• “We favor the abolition of Medicare and Medicaid programs.”
• “We oppose any compulsory insurance or tax-supported plan to provide health services, including those which finance abortion services.”
• “We also favor the deregulation of the medical insurance industry.”
• “We favor the repeal of the fraudulent, virtually bankrupt, and increasingly oppressive Social Security system. Pending that repeal, participation in Social Security should be made voluntary.”
• “We propose the abolition of the governmental Postal Service. The present system, in addition to being inefficient, encourages governmental surveillance of private correspondence. Pending abolition, we call for an end to the monopoly system and for allowing free competition in all aspects of postal service.”
• “We oppose all personal and corporate income taxation, including capital gains taxes.”
• “We support the eventual repeal of all taxation.”
• “As an interim measure, all criminal and civil sanctions against tax evasion should be terminated immediately.”
• “We support repeal of all law which impede the ability of any person to find employment, such as minimum wage laws.”
• “We advocate the complete separation of education and State. Government schools lead to the indoctrination of children and interfere with the free choice of individuals. Government ownership, operation, regulation, and subsidy of schools and colleges should be ended.”
• “We condemn compulsory education laws … and we call for the immediate repeal of such laws.”
• “We support the repeal of all taxes on the income or property of private schools, whether profit or non-profit.”
• “We support the abolition of the Environmental Protection Agency.”
• “We support abolition of the Department of Energy.”
• “We call for the dissolution of all government agencies concerned with transportation, including the Department of Transportation.”
• “We demand the return of America’s railroad system to private ownership. We call for the privatization of the public roads and national highway system.”
• “We specifically oppose laws requiring an individual to buy or use so-called “self-protection” equipment such as safety belts, air bags, or crash helmets.”
• “We advocate the abolition of the Federal Aviation Administration.”
• “We advocate the abolition of the Food and Drug Administration.”
• “We support an end to all subsidies for child-bearing built into our present laws, including all welfare plans and the provision of tax-supported services for children.”
• “We oppose all government welfare, relief projects, and ‘aid to the poor’ programs. All these government programs are privacy-invading, paternalistic, demeaning, and inefficient. The proper source of help for such persons is the voluntary efforts of private groups and individuals.”
• “We call for the privatization of the inland waterways, and of the distribution system that brings water to industry, agriculture and households.”
• “We call for the repeal of the Occupational Safety and Health Act.”
• “We call for the abolition of the Consumer Product Safety Commission.”
• “We support the repeal of all state usury laws.”
Gimlet
@Kropadope:
He trusts his gut, and he has a gut feeling about this.
Screw statistics from pointy-headed liberals. Next you’ll be saying the earth is more than 6,000 years old, evolution is real and there is global warming. Bah!
Bobby B.
“In response to the question flickering in all your minds, I do not believe I am God. But you may do so if you desire.”
Chris
@Mnemosyne (tablet):
I don’t know, but whatever it is, it’s the same sentiment that compels them to say the knee-jerk “you’re just jealous!” anytime anyone questions the rightness of their wealth.
Gvg
@Germy Shoemangler: my god that is appalling. and incredibly dumb. these idiots really think they would prosper in that world? Just amazingly ignorant.
JPL
@Germy Shoemangler: Holy f..k…. The entire list is horrifying but imagine a country with no FAA.
bargal20
“Coaldad Brother” by Charles Koch
schrodinger's cat
Its not surprising really. The British wanted India and their other colonies to be thankful for their benevolent rule.
Kay
@Germy Shoemangler:
Wow. So no education at all for the bottom, say, 20% unless they can pay for it out of pocket? That’s very empowering to the poor, I must say.
Germy Shoemangler
@Gvg: @JPL:
I imagine they envision their own private army. To keep the rest of us from storming their gates…
Richard Fox
I wish our democracy can be protected from these people. Unlimited resources with no morality or balance. They couldn’t be taken seriously or win as political leaders so they take the usual coward’s route and simply purchase power. Just plain frightening.
I think the only way to defeat them and shine a bright light on them, and ridicule / laugh at their genuine mediocrity loudly (and often.) Now only if we had a credible fourth estate….
Kropadope
@Kay:
A small price to pay to not be brainwashed…by the government.
Chris
@Gimlet:
“Back” to the police. Yes, the real problem is that the poor cops have been stripped of too much power.
Germy Shoemangler
They certainly aren’t afraid to Think Big.
Heliopause
Everybody does. Everybody — the Kochs, Trump, Balloon Juicers — thinks that they are doing the Lord’s Work. The challenge is to make it structurally impossible (or at least difficult) for any individual to do the Lord’s Work.
Chris
@schrodinger’s cat:
And we’ve heard plenty of similar bitching about Afghan and Iraqi “ingratitude.” There’s something remarkable in the abuser mentality that such people sincerely expect their victims to be thankful for their abuse.
Chris
@Richard Fox:
“If there are men in this country big enough to own the government of the United States, they are going to own it.”
schrodinger's cat
@Chris: My Russian friend too is genuinely surprised and hurt that the ex-Soviet satellite countries are not the biggest fans of the motherland, especially after all that Russia has done for them (her words, not mine).
Kay
Oh God, more billionaires running public schools. Can’t they focus somewhere else? When is the last time any of these 450 people even entered a US public school? Ever? Isn’t there a labor union somewhere else they can go after?
trollhattan
@Gimlet:
That reads so much better when I imagine it in Palin’s voice. Has anybody seen Sarah(tm) and The Donald in the same room together?
Gimlet
@Kay:
It’s a last bastion of liberalism. Need to unashamedly teach conservative values.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Kay: The Teachers Union. See, 2 birds with one stone.
Keith G
@Gvg:
Come on.
That was not a policy to win an election. That was just a rally cry for a future action.
But if you look at that list, from 1981-2009 their side of the ledger did see more progress than I am comfortable with.
Shakezula
Fingers crossed their puppets run with the Justice for Jillionaires message.
I mean, “Ooo! I am a liberal lady person and this message makes me sooooo mad! I hope the GOP never repeats it again!” Humph! Grumph!
Schlemazel
@Heliopause:
I never thought I was doing the lords work. If the fucker is omnipotent he can do his own damn work, I have enough on my hands just trying to do what little I can.
Kay
@Kropadope:
I love how he’s lecturing other billionaires on how to capture the hearts and minds of the rabble. And they’re sitting there listening!
How would he know? Shouldn’t they ask a peon?
Villago Delenda Est
Which is why I have no problem with executing every last one of them.
Kropadope
@Kay:
Don’t encourage them!!!
Richard Fox
@Chris: Thanks Chris. The full quote is good, so gives me SOME comfort:
“If there are men in this country big enough to own the government of the United States, they are going to own it; what we have to determine now is whether we are big enough, whether we are men enough, whether we are free enough, to take possession again of the government which is our own.”
Keith G
@Kay:
With all that cash, I bet he could go out and buy a peon whisperer.
Germy Shoemangler
Look at the photo above of Charles Koch. He’s 79? Doesn’t he look fifteen years younger? The super-rich really age at a different rate than the peons.
He’ll be around another couple of decades. He’s playing a long game.
Chris
@Richard Fox:
I actually didn’t know the full quote, only the part I cited, so thank you.
Cervantes
@debbie:
On the contrary, it’s difficult to amass wealth in certain ways if one is not somewhat delusional.
Germy Shoemangler
@Richard Fox: Woodrow Wilson?? But Glenn Beck says Wilson started us on the road to ruin…
Unsympathetic
They’re sociopaths. Of course they think they’re awesome..
This thread is kind of a water-is-wet? discussion..
Perhaps the OP doesn’t know/accept the definition of the character traits of true sociopathy?
Ruckus
@efgoldman:
And on the 70th year he rested.
Germy Shoemangler
@efgoldman:
Job creators!
Kropadope
@efgoldman: No paeon focus group?
Gimlet
Getting ready for Obama tomorrow.
Republican presidential candidate Ted Cruz has stated that he doesn’t believe in the science behind global warming. In a forum hosted by Freedom Partners on Sunday evening, a key cog in the political network of the Koch Brothers, the Texas senator stated that “the data and facts don’t support” that global warming is occurring.
The moderator of the forum described Cruz’s stance as “full out denial”. The Texas senator did not disagree with that characterisation. Cruz has previously compared those who believe in global warming to “flat-Earthers.”
Germy Shoemangler
Off topic, but I just heard this on a playlist:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeCeiJjlgXw
So THIS is where Spielberg got the melody idea for Close Encounters!
Ruckus
@Schlemazel:
This.
He’s omnipotent and we have to do all the work.
Fuck that, let him snap his fingers, fins, twitch his nose or whatever the fuck he has to do and do it himself. He’s omnipotent, won’t even break a sweat.
Kropadope
@Gimlet:
Umm…
::Facepalm::
Kay
@efgoldman:
I wish they would all go back to just living decadent, fabulously wealthy lifestyles and stop scolding us and telling us what we need to do. I don’t even want the donations or the foundations anymore because they’re not “gifts” they’re transactions. In return they want to run everything. “You keep it, pay your taxes and we’ll call it even”.
I honestly think I liked the old-style plutocrat better. If it’s a choice between Carnegie and these smarmy, self-aggrandizing weasels I’ll take Carnegie.
Kropadope
@Schlemazel: Given my belief that we are all part of god, indeed god is all things; what little you can do is god’s work.
Germy Shoemangler
@Ruckus:
God is a female feline. She twitches Her whiskers. And no, She never perspires.
schrodinger's cat
@Kay: What about Gates and his foundation? What do you think?
Richard Fox
@Germy Shoemangler: Glen— Glen…. hmm. Glen Beck? Nah- can’t place the name exactly. Down the memory hole they all go, in the end.
Didn’t he sell Palmolive dishwashing liquid in those commercials?
Kropadope
@Germy Shoemangler: Are hairballs your explanation for Republicans?
Germy Shoemangler
@schrodinger’s cat: I know you weren’t asking me, but I’ll post this in case you’re interested:
http://billmoyers.com/2014/03/28/public-education-who-are-the-corporate-reformers/
Germy Shoemangler
@Kropadope: No… litterbox clumps.
Kropadope
@Germy Shoemangler: Haha, eww.
wait, if god is eternal, who changes the litter box?
schrodinger's cat
@Germy Shoemangler: Yes the bad mouthing of public education all the time by VSPs is horrible and Bill Gates is no exception to that.
What I have heard good things about the work Gates foundation, is the work it has has done for malaria prevention.
ETA: Thanks for the article, I will read it. I like Bill Moyers and his show on PBS.
Honoré De Ballsack
@Kay: If it’s a choice between Carnegie and these smarmy, self-aggrandizing weasels I’ll take Carnegie.
FYI: Actually, I’ll take the Kochs and the post-17th Amendment version of the Constitution, thanks. As bad as things might seem now, back in the day it was even easier to buy Senators outright than it is today.
Right to Rise
Instead of moaning and groaning in jealousy of the Kochs, why not emulate them ? The rich didn’t get that way by sitting around and complaining about how unfair life is. They went out and grabbed life by the horns.
That should be the role of government : not to make people comfortable in a minimum wage job, but fulfill the conditions for a right to rise above that low station, and maybe even become rich themselves.
Excellence, not mediocrity. Initiative, not dependence. Confidence , not consolment. This is the American Way.
Woodrowfan
Indeed, he’s not very good at it.
Germy Shoemangler
@Kropadope:
[Father Flanagan voice]: “Well, it’s a mystery…”
Anne Laurie
@Smiling Mortician:
I think the main reason the Kochs “graciously permitted” the (lapdog) press to film this particular gathering is that they’re jealous of all the attention Trump’s getting. They tried running for office, as “pure” Libertarians, back in St. Ronald’s day — and they couldn’t draw flies, much less votes. But this big-city Noo Yarker with his flashy casinos and his trophy wives drops a few thou, couch-cushion money, and the teevee reporters swarm!!!…
I really doubt Charles (much less David) is gonna throw down his own gauntlet, however — at least not for 2016. He’s just gonna promote his chosen sockpuppet (whether that’s Walker, or another one of the name-brand monkeys currently soliciting his attention) and make them do the nasty, tedious grip’n’grin routines until the serfs dutifully install him in the White House. Hey, Dick Cheney was dam’ successfully for Halliburton when Dubya was riding his little bicycle around the Rose Garden; why not let a couple / cabal of real capitalists show the rest of the world how Oligarchy should be done?
Germy Shoemangler
@Right to Rise:
“There comes a time in the affairs of man when he must take the bull by the tail and face the situation.”
Kropadope
@Right to Rise: No jealousy. Just trying to protect the framework upon which my, their, and everyone else’s wealth is built upon. Sure, they accrued enough money that they can afford to build their own new framework, which would be wholly owned by them. But we Americans don’t want kings.
gelfling545
I got an interesting look into the way the odd state of affairs in the GOP primary situation may be affecting some conservatives. My one conservative friend was at dinner today & started talking about how both political parties are just as bad as each other. He is a Fox News viewer & for the last several years has been pontificating on how the Democrats will be the death of us and Republicans are our only hope to save us from final damnation (a liberal government). If it’s giving him pause, the GOP have going real issues.
Right to Rise
@Kropadope:
They’re exercising their right of free speech and petitioning for a redress of grievances.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@Right to Rise:
You’re right, anyone who didn’t bother to be born to a multi-millionaire is just plain lazy. That’s why Paris Hilton is a better person than you’ll ever be.
Germy Shoemangler
@gelfling545: He probably believes the GOP is being infested with liberals like Jeb Bush and Lindsey Graham.
Kropadope
@Right to Rise: Aren’t we all?
Omnes Omnibus
@Mnemosyne (tablet):
She probably is, you know.
Right to Rise
@Mnemosyne (tablet):
The vast majority of billionaires in this country are self-made. But hey, if pretending otherwise helps you to be happy in your mediocrity, go right ahead and believe everyone inherited their wealth.
Kropadope
@Right to Rise: Those self-made billionaires, unlike the Kochs, by and large aren’t trying to foreclose upon opportunity for everyone else.
Richard Fox
@Right to Rise: I would love to have a coin minted with my own likeness, like one of the Koch brothers did when he tried to buy– I mean “run” for office. Is that what you mean?
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/david-kochs-got-dime-you
Jim, Foolish Literalist
OT: if there is a T: Politico is tweeting that Schumer is leaning toward voting to kill the Iran agreement. Any chance he’ll vote with the R’s in the first round, then against overturning the veto?
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@Right to Rise:
Really, “most” billionaires are self-made? Please name them. Note that you have to leave Bill Gates off that list since his daddy is a billionaire in his own right. Donald Trump inherited $40 million from his daddy. And, of course, the Koch brothers.
But, please, name all of the “self-made” billionaires who didn’t get a several-million head start from their parents. I’ll be fascinated to see your list.
Germy Shoemangler
“A self-made man is usually one who worships his creator.”
Omnes Omnibus
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: The Politico piece was pretty weak sauce.
SiubhanDuinne
@Germy Shoemangler:
I never got past the first bullet:
The despotic FEC. Hahahahahahahaha!! Quite possibly the most toothless federal agency ever, but they are “despotic,” LOL. Trying to picture jackbooted FEC thugs throwing their despotic weight around.
Botsplainer
That evil fuck better hope I never collect a terminal illness diagnosis while he’s walking this spinning rock.
That ever happens, things go down, much for the better.
Germy Shoemangler
@SiubhanDuinne: I think one of them threw a spoon once.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@Right to Rise:
Here’s a list to get you started:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:American_billionaires
Note that anyone listed as having “joined the family business” or “from a wealthy family” is automatically disqualified as “self-made.” Good luck coming up with more than a dozen from that list of over 500.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Mnemosyne (tablet): ObOpenThread…
Below you mentioned that one way to get in the door in the giant creative industries is to use a temp agency that is tied to the corp you’d like to work at.
I did some temp office work in the very late ’80s via a couple of national agencies (Manpower, AccountTemps) which may not be around any more (haven’t checked). My recollection is that there were terms in the contact that if the client wanted to hire you, then they would have to pay the agency some (not insubstantial) fee. I can see their reasons for doing that (after all, they don’t get paid unless they have a worker there), but it might (in some/many cases) limit one’s options compared to the case of having a headhunter find a spot for you, or finding the spot yourself.
(Of course, headhunters get a fee, too, so that’s one reason why some employers say “principals only”.)
Do you know if temp agencies still get a substantial fee if the MotU want to hire a temp worker? If one is looking for permanent work, it’s important to understand all the pluses and minuses of temp work.
(In my case, the temp work was to bring in some money while I kept looking for permanent employment in my (different) chosen field.)
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
bago
@lamh36: @lamh36: I lost it at e=mc hammer.
RSA
Good God. Look at where the conservatives of the day stood in each of those periods. (Maybe the rich conservatives in particular, but I don’t know.) And the Kochs are different because… ?
PurpleGirl
@Gvg: They, the oligarchs and plutocrats, the 1% would survive in that world. All those points are calculated to make their lives easier and richer. The rest of us… not so much.
SiubhanDuinne
@Germy Shoemangler:
Oooh, scawy.
Botsplainer
@Germy Shoemangler:
So in other words, the dumbest fuckers In politics bought the Republican Party, and have convinced even stupider fuckers to support them.
Patrick
@Right to Rise:
I would love to. Please tell us how the rest of us can be born with a rich father like they were that we can inherit our wealth from.
trollhattan
A firefighting DC-10 just flew over the house, headed to…who the hell knows which fire. Our airport generally gets 737s and such, so a ginormous wide-body flying low and slow kind of stands out.
“Congress-made drought” say the Republicans.
Germy Shoemangler
@Botsplainer: That’s it in a nutshell. And I think they’re winning. We’re getting squeezed so bad, but it’s been gradual since 1980, so some of the younger folk think that’s just the way things are.
trollhattan
@Patrick:
Have to say, Reality Check-Bounced ver. 2.0’s firmware update didn’t seem to take. Seems even more inane this go, a possibility that never once occurred to me.
Bill D.
Re the second Billmon tweet…
So what Disney cartoon character do the plutocrats love?
.
.
.
.
Hegemony Cricket!
(ducks)
Patrick
@Germy Shoemangler:
Most old white folks vote Republican and implicitly support the Koch brothers. I recall during the ACA debate that they were adamant supporters of Medicare. I wonder if they are even aware of that the Kochs want to eliminate their precious Medicare.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
There usually is a fee that has to be paid to the agency, but it’s also usually built into the budget in a temp-to-hire situation, so it’s not necessarily a problem in getting hired. Entertainment companies in particular like to “try before they buy,” so it’s a common way to do their lower-level hiring. I worked temp-to-hire in several jobs (including my current one) so I have some experience in it. :-)
Also, California has some pretty strict rules now to try and prevent companies from having “permanent temps” — it either has to be a genuine independent contractor situation or they have to hire you as an employee. We ended up bringing a couple of people on board as “casual hires” because company policy is that you can only use a temp for 18 calendar months and then you lose them for 2 years. “Casual hires” are basically permanent part-time workers who come in on their schedule — one person is trying to get a career started as an art director, so she works for us a couple of days a week as needed and does art stuff on her other days.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym
@Mnemosyne (tablet):
His father is a billionaire only because of the success of Microsoft. Bill Gates III’s upbringing was solidly upper middle class, but nothing even remotely like the kid of a billionaire. He was fortunate that his parents had enough money to send him to a private school and then provide the seed money for his company, but he’s no Paris Hilton.
Kropadope
@Patrick:
Weren’t you paying attention to the 2010 election? Eliminate is the new “protect.”
JPL
@Patrick: They think Medicare is bankrupt and the only hope is to get rid of it for the youngins Let them privatize and let me keep mine.
Germy Shoemangler
@Patrick:
There were some celebrations yesterday of the 50th anniversary of Medicare. I think some people played the Ronald Reagan recording where he warns against Medicare causing socialism.
I honestly don’t know if that recording would make the oldsters heads explode or not. There is no logic.
bago
Also, too. The blog is copyrighted to 2013.
beltane
Right to Rise sounds like a failed marketing campaign for the pharmaceutical-that-must-not-be-named. TACO riseth again.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Germy Shoemangler: He’s got the hands of a 79 year old (to these eyes, anyway). And the WSJ uses that same picture and says it’s from 2012.
He doesn’t seem to be getting transfusions from 12 year olds – at least not yet.
;-)
Cheers,
Scott.
JPL
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym: The fact that you are wealthy enough to send your children to top schools, should be factored in. The Economist did a study awhile back which pretty much said, if you believe in the American dream concept, move to France.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym:
Bill Sr. was a millionaire while Bill Jr. was growing up. Getting to go to top private schools (including Harvard, even as a dropout) is a HUGE advantage in life. If the Kochs started on third base, Gates started on second at an absolute minimum.
Now, Steve Jobs’ family was solidly middle-class, so I think it’s fair to put him on the “self-made” list. So we’ve got one so far.
Germy Shoemangler
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
No need for transfusions. The 12 year olds go into a blender and make a delicious smoothie.
Patrick
@Mnemosyne (tablet):
True. But it is also worth noting that Jobs had an easier way to get to the list than say a poor African-American inner city kid raised by a single mom.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Mnemosyne (tablet): Excellent. Another example of some sensible policies that the rest of the nation should emulate.
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
PurpleGirl
@schrodinger’s cat: I worked in fundraising for an educational non-profit in NYC> The medical stuff that the Gates Foundation has done is to be commended. The education stuff not to much. He has largely given mega grants to a school department/district and there are strings of various sorts. My organization received some minor grant money by way of the Department of Education. And the Foundation is interested in supporting charter schools and using technology to ‘improve’ education.
Anne Laurie
@Kay:
I think that’s the Koch Brothers’ real problem; they don’t have the talent for living large. For whatever deep psychological reasons, they can’t just throw their money around and enjoy themselves with wine, women, song, aircraft-carrier-sized yachts and vast museums with their names gilded on every flat surface. So they want to make sure us Poors aren’t enjoying our pitiful little beer & brat cookouts, either. And a flamboyant “rich” person like Trump just twists the knife in their guts. He doesn’t even work for his money, by their standards, because flapping his mouth on the teevee and charming the marks isn’t “real” work, like ordering vast ranks of white-collared underlings to raze the planet in pursuit of every last pinched penny.
It’s like John Rockefeller, versus the flamboyant hucksters Jay Morgan and Andrew Carnegie. We can’t even invent new villains for this copycat Gilded Age of ours! And we can’t even hope the Kochs’ descendants will be sufficiently embarrassed by their dads’ vile anti-social behavior that they’ll throw a few billions in “philanthropy”…
rikyrah
Just finished watching Descendents on Disney…yes, with Peanut..LOL
trollhattan
@Mnemosyne (tablet):
IIRC it was mom who pulled strings to get Bill the all-important meeting with IBM that led to the DOS contract.
I can vouch that Lakeside Academy was the region’s top prep school (“Region” in this case probably comprising every western state not California).
I can’t hate on Bill given what he’s done the last decade and as for dad, he’s very much in favor of the inheritance tax and is anti-plutocracy. Were there more like him.
Sloegin
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym: Upper middle class eh? Well, Bill Sr was a senior partner of one of the biggest law firms in Seattle; Mom was a U.W. Regent, board member of multiple companies and charities, including co-board member with the chairman of IBM whom she schmoozed with and who later hired then tiny startup Microsoft.
Bootstraps. Mighty fancy boostraps.
Kay
@Patrick:
I cannot imagine what this country would look like without Social Security. There would literally be millions of destitute old people. I mean dirt poor – no income or assets of any kind, and no ability to get any. Sometimes I wish they’d get what they want. It would look a lot different, that’s for sure.
trollhattan
@efgoldman:
Ah, you’ve deduced the way to type that nym w/o getting an autobounce. Your post-fu is strong Obi Wan.
My earlier post noting its firmware 2.0 upgrade seems more like a downgrade never had a chance.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym
@JPL: I agree, but Mnemosune’s claim (which she’s backing away from) was that Bill Gates II was a billionaire, and that’s simply not true in the context of discussing Bill Gates III’s childhood.
trollhattan
@Kay:
Not to miss the “virtually bankrupt” proclamation circa 1980. They “bankrupt”? I missed the memo.
Kropadope
@trollhattan: I was wondering about the bolded letters.
Kay
@Anne Laurie:
What happened to their delightful eccentricity? Shouldn’t they be bankrolling crazy hovercraft schemes instead of fretting over the Social Security trust fund and scolding us about “upskilling”? I want the fun rich people back.
Brachiator
I loved it when the Koch brothers started free styling that Neil Young song, “Keep on rocking in the free market!”
There’s a banker over there
Says keep hope alive,
Keep faking those loans,
Keep hiding those bribes…
andy
@Germy Shoemangler: They didn’t ask for too much, did they? It’s kind of sad that we’ve gone so far down the rabbit hole that some of those planks would be called “moderate.”
Kay
@trollhattan:
A lot of people think it’s bankrupt. On the other hand, a truly shocking number of people think their 401k has absolutely no value either. I hear it a lot- “well, that’s what it says“. Skeptical. Not buying that this will at any time represent “money”.
ruemara
@Mnemosyne (tablet): I’m sure these job creators are multitaskers and do all of that.
Keith P.
If he really wanted to impress me, he’d compare himself to Jesus and voluntarily die for our sins.
J R in WV
@Gimlet:
The Donald seems totally unaware that the violent crime rate now is the lowest it has ever been since we started keeping records.
That’s so sad, that a presidential candidate could be so unaware of how well his country is doing, while he runs for leadership of that country.
How many things would The Donald break before he learned the actual reality of the nation he seeks to lead? Probably everything, don’t you think?
JPL
Stalin paid the papa good money probably at the expense of the Ukraine population. No wonder the Koch’s want to rewrite their history.
Kay
@efgoldman:
I love the “kill Medicaid” people the most. I don’t know where they think all those people in nursing homes are going. Have to go somewhere. They’ll be bunking with their grandchildren, I guess.
PurpleGirl
@JPL: Yes, that’s right. Papa Koch worked with Stalin and made much money from him.
Germy Shoemangler
From wikipedia:
Now THAT’S how a true plutocrat dies. He makes one last kill before keeling over.
Compare that to us balloon-juicers, with our rescue dogs and cats, our adopted strays, our spreading joy and happiness and kindness through the animal kingdom. We’re just not good enough people.
Brachiator
@Mnemosyne (tablet):
Much more than that. People shouldn’t just begin and end with Bill Gates and Steve Jobs. Hewlett and Packard were upper middle class, but had brains and Stanford in common. Steve Wozniak I think was just comfortably middle class.
The Next Generation, the googlers and Facebookers and others are more diverse. Steve Ballmer has a background of upper middle class or somewhat higher. But one of the founders of Sun Microsystems grew up on a farm in Bavaria. Mark Cuban is from a working class Jewish background.
JPL
@PurpleGirl: He was a pretty bright guy but go pushed out by big oil corporations, so in some ways, he did what he thought he had to. I wish the media would mention where the money originated from though because it did cause starvation in western Ukraine, since Stalin used the produce to sell abroad for money.
Kay
It’s such a problem for them because these are exactly the people they believe didn’t come out for Romney.
They are going to have to court Trump, and not alienate his supporters, and they have to do it no matter what Trump says between now and January.
He’ll say things like this:
ThresherK
@Mnemosyne (tablet): Actually “even as a dropout” re Bill Gates says exactly the thing: If I were the first in my family to go to college, or something bigger than a JuCo, or were one of the poor people on a literal lottery-chance scholarship to Harvard, and then I dropped out?
I would be disowned. I imagine the phrase “Youre dead to me!” would get uncomfortably close to literal.
You gotsta be rich to drop out of Harvard and not have it destroy your life.
Kay
@efgoldman:
I think the anxiety alone would kill them. Elderly people who are wholly dependent on Social Security worry about running out of money obsessively. I don’t blame them, they’re obviously vulnerable, but boy without that guarantee I would hate to see the anxiety level.
The Thin Black Duke
Do you know what’s funny?
Let’s suppose that the Koch brothers got everything that they wanted.
How long do you think they’d survive before their world turned into a Games of Thrones episode and their “bodyguards” disembowelled them?
Brachiator
Ah, the Ferengi Gambit. Nothing but profit.
Keith P.
@Germy Shoemangler: I was expecting Fred to yell “WITNESS ME!!!” before he killed the bird.
Tree With Water
@Germy Shoemangler: That is exactly how bona fide plutocrats check out. Of course, the story is absolute bullshit, and he probably kicked while raping a child. It makes for a fonder last remembrance, is my guess.
boatboy_srq
@Mnemosyne (tablet): “Rich” has become pejorative for people (usually men) who rise to wealth and prominence by scr3wing the little guy. The “little guy” is the heroic figure battling the tyrants. You know, like the… um, well, Kochs.
boatboy_srq
@debbie: When you own a paper conglomerate, all those trees just keep felling themselves. That doesn’t take genius, just enough luck not to fvck up too badly. For example, nobody has been happier about the “paperless” “digital” age than the paper mills with all those printers spewing out emails and spreadsheets.
Gin & Tonic
@JPL: FSM knows I’m not a fan of any of the Koch family, much less of Stalin, but Fred and his business associates had already been forced out of the Soviet Union by the time the Holodomor really began.
boatboy_srq
@Kropadope: Interesting that he’s lauding the anti-slavery and women’s suffrage efforts at a meeting of people most likely incensed that they have to pay their workers and listen to their wives.
Gin & Tonic
@Tree With Water: I always liked Nelson Rockefeller’s exit.
Kropadope
@boatboy_srq: Taxation is the new slavery, bruh. Keep up.
Bokonon
The Koches don’t see themselves as villains. When they compare themselves to the civil rights movement, they probably do see themselves as heroes. Saving the nation, even (and maybe destroying the political system in the process).
As George Sand once wrote, “Vice never sees its own ugliness.”
gogol's wife
Wow, I’ve just been through the wringer with two hours of Poldark and you guys are still talking about the Koch brothers.
boatboy_srq
@JPL: Check the line before: “We specifically oppose laws requiring an individual to buy or use so-called “self-protection” equipment such as safety belts, air bags, or crash helmets.” And no DOT either. I imagine they’re expecting significant depopulation from those three items alone, which will result in a very comfortable standard of living for the remaining citizenry. And naturally they’re expecting to be among those who remain.
boatboy_srq
@Kropadope: Those poor oppressed billionaires. Whodathunk.
Kropadope
@boatboy_srq: Like they got that rich paying taxes….
ETA: I’m not saying they paid no taxes, but there is a bipartisan Congressional consensus regarding privileging capital over labor.
boatboy_srq
@Kropadope: IIRC the Kochs lucked into industries that just keep printing money: energy, paper, etc. Not like you can really lose money in those sectors – unless the economy really does go paperless or people realize the energy you’re hawking is actually toxic… And even then there’s plenty of time to move your billions into something more durable. Ever notice how everyone makes a big deal over the dot-com millionaires like they did something obscene to get their wealth, but nobody ever made a stink about somebody who just happened to buy the right piece of land (with coal/oil under it or old growth on top)?
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Brachiator: “Nothing but profit.”
That reminds me of some wonders that Porsche was doing before they messed up and were swallowed by VW.
There was that one year when Porsche had profits greater than their sales…
TANSTAAFL.
Hubris gets everyone eventually.
Cheers,
Scott.
ms_canadada
@Germy Shoemangler: IOW,
“Shut the fuck up and die you good for nothin’ poors. We’ve got ours and you’re worth nothin’.”
Chris
@Bokonon:
I don’t think they see themselves as villains, but I do think they’re lying their asses off (not wrong, lying) every time they open their mouths about how their reforms will help “the plight of the poor.”
I have a working theory that the Kochs and their ilk (i.e. the super-super-wealthy right wing) basically operate on this worldview: that the creation of the modern state through the Progressive Era, New Deal and Great Society reforms were the most gigantic mugging in history, and that they were its victims. The Roosevelts and the howling mob at their backs put a gun to the heads of the rich, walked away with their money (not every penny, but far too many) and spent it all on themselves. So, when they look at our society, and at all the things that are made possible by the post-New Deal state, instead of seeing a healthy and functioning society, they see thieves living high off of wealth they didn’t earn. Everything they’re doing, therefore, is simply a matter of getting “back” “their” wealth.
(And if the rest of us starve, so be it. We shouldn’t have stolen).
The Koch fortune especially goes all the way back into the early 20th century. I’m sure Charles and David grew up listening to Papa Koch’s stories of America-that-was and how the system used to recognize and reward the truly worthy while letting the lazy and stupid stew in their mediocrity, instead of robbing one to pay the other. Before the dark times… before the liberals.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@Brachiator:
I don’t mind rich people who actually did things to get rich. I don’t begrudge Bill Gates his billions even though (as he acknowledges) he started on second base.
It’s people like the Kochs who pretend they somehow earned their inherited wealth by some means other than being in the Lucky Sperm Club that bug me. If your name is Koch, Annenberg, or Walton (to name just three), you didn’t do dick to earn what you have. You just got lucky, and pretending otherwise is an insult to everyone else’s intelligence.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mnemosyne (tablet): I don’t mind rich people who realize that they lucked out.
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@Chris:
In other words, they’re projecting their own insecurity about living off unearned wealth onto everyone else?
Sounds about right.
RaflW
@Kropadope:
Mostly true. But R2R wants a daddy. A big, strong, rich daddy figure to pat him on the head and tell him he is a good lad.
Probably had a ballbuster father of his own who didn’t know how to actually show love or compassion.
Brachiator
@Mnemosyne (tablet):
Again, I don’t think that using Gates as the single “best” example of someone who started on second base leads to any meaningful conclusions about how past or present tech billionaires achieved their success. And it deliberately ignores people whose backgrounds were more humble but who also ended up with a jackpot.
But I agree with you when you say you don’t mind rich people who actually did things to get rich.
The Kochs and people like them are odious nuts. But I don’t know what the Kochs did with their luck (and I suspect their Wikipedia entries have been tampered to make them look better).
But there are also people like Huntington Hartford who inherited great wealth and pretty much pissed it all away. Being in the Lucky Sperm or Ovary Club doesn’t always take you very far.
Omnes Omnibus
@Brachiator: And your point is?
Mnemosyne (tablet)
@Brachiator:
You’re getting a little hung up on the “tech billionaire” aspect. Being a tech billionaire today is like being an oil billionaire 100 years ago — depends far more on luck and timing than on actual ability. And I’m fully expecting that we’ll see descendants of tech billionaires who are just of big of assholes as the current descendants of oil billionaires like the Kochs. And they will be just as convinced that they “earned” the wealth their grandfather left them.
Brachiator
@Omnes Omnibus:
I think I have explained myself pretty clearly. I don’t know what else you might be looking for.
Actually, you can throw out the billionaire part if you want. And by switching to a focus on luck, you’re moving the goalposts. I simply said that using Bill Gates as your main example of people leveraging their family’s wealth to success is sloppy, incomplete and wrong. And luck and timing is not always dependent on either income or family standing. And yeah, you could cite Gate’s acquisition of the version of DOS that later was rebranded MS DOS as an example of luck and timing.
@Mnemosyne (tablet)
Possibly, but no real way to know in advance.
BTW, the Wiki article on the Kochs suggest that their grandfather had a bug up his ass about free markets and the evil of the New Deal, etc. So this may be a long running family thing. However, it is a tad too neat, and I don’t know what other sources might say. One of the reasons I wonder whether the Wiki has been shaped to tell a tale that the Kochs want told.
jimbo57
Yeah, remember that troublemaking black preacher got himself shot in Memphis? The one our Dad said was a Communist? We’re just like that guy.
Doug Wieboldt
Civil rights movements are inclusive and generally work to help others. The koch brothers are only helping themselves, and their .01% sycophants… Sorry kocksuckers. We don’t believe you.
'Niques
@PurpleGirl: And then they would have to clean their own toilets and wipe their own asses . . . they would be miserable!!
Cervantes
@jimbo57:
Nicely done.