This has popped up in comments a couple of times: A GOP back-bencher from South FL is claiming that Donald Trump’s disastrous (for the GOP) candidacy is all part of a liberal plot. The congressman is doubling down rather than walking it back:
Crazy conspiracy theory? Ask @DCCC about their role in a CRIMINAL scheme for a straw candidate in SF http://t.co/u1DWF3IkF4 @PatriciaMazzei
— Carlos Curbelo (@carloslcurbelo) July 14, 2015
I wish the DNC was that damn clever. As noted yesterday, I think Professor Krugman’s explanation of the Trump phenomenon is far more likely to be true:
“He’s a belligerent, loudmouth racist with not an ounce of compassion for less fortunate people. In other words, he’s exactly the kind of person the Republican base consists of and identifies with.”
Occam’s Razor, Congressman Curbelo.
Open thread!
ETA: President Obama held a presser on the Iran nukes deal this afternoon. He called on Fox News hacklumnus and current CBS News employee Major Garrett, who larded up the question with wingnut talking points. PBO took Garrett to task for his craven cheap shots and then proceeded to explain why it was stupid question in the first place. Booyah! Valued commenter JPL shared this link in comments.
chopper
i’m sure liberals took a break from their usual circular firing squad to hatch and implement this perfect evil scheme.
Belafon
It doesn’t matter if he is a liberal plant because he’s leading in the polls. He’s exactly what a large chunk of the base wants. YOu need to deal with that, Congressman.
BruceFromOhio
Is this some sort of corollary to Cleek’s Law?
mai naem mobile
Jonathan Karl is a major league douchebag asshole.
SFAW
@mai naem mobile:
Water wet?
C.V. Danes
Trump as the Manchurian Candidate, eh?
Karen in GA
@mai naem mobile: I remember him reading a teleprompter and saying “Kim Jong the Second,” which is all I needed to know about him. What did he do this time?
OzarkHillbilly
sorry Congressman, only a GOP operative could come up with Donald the Candidate. Probably someone like Karl Rove. Speaking of which, has anyone seen Karl lately?
MattF
I see that ‘Florida politician’ stories are a sub-genre of ‘Florida man’ stories. Oh, and Congressman– those serious-looking folks in the white coats carrying straitjackets are definitely not part of the plot, so you should just stay right where you are and keep calm.
? Martin
@Belafon: This times infinity.
? Martin
@Karen in GA: Hey, at least you know he can count to two in roman.
NonyNony
I mean – how does that work exactly? Trump is a candidate that is sucking up a lot of support in the GOP primary. Having a straw candidate in the primary that gets a lot of GOP support doesn’t really help the Dems at all – unless he’s knocking out a candidate who is equally electable among GOP primary voters but more electable in the general. So evidence needed that THAT is the case. (And meanwhile it doesn’t speak well of your voters who are happy to vote for a nincompoop running a fake campaign, does it?). I just don’t see how this strategy would work.
Now if they were backing a run by him on a third party ticket, well, that would maybe work. But is far more devious than the Democratic Party has ever appeared capable of. I think it’s far more likely that 20% or so of the GOP is a bunch of racist morons who like the cut of Trump’s gib. In fact, I’ll go so far as to say that I suspect that Trump can count on getting as much as 27% of the GOP primary voters in his corner when all is said and done…
Villago Delenda Est
It’s just that GOP politicians are in deep, deep denial about the nature of their base.
Mike J
Can the mainstream Republicans explain why all of their own policy prescriptions are exactly the same as those of “a belligerent, loudmouth racist”?
KG
@Mike J: I believe the answer is: because shut up, that’s why!
Gindy51
My deceased dad would have loved Trump, would have called him a brother of a different mother in fact. Anything Trump says, I grew up listening to only louder and with more cuss words. Archie Bunker was a liberal as far as my dad was concerned. He is what we now know as the GOP base.
Roger Moore
The best part is that if a brilliant, classy guy like Donald Trump wanted to do this, he would be brilliant enough not to need a conspiracy. He would just go ahead and run without bothering to tell anyone about it, which would avoid messy paper trails and similar unfortunate things that might result in criminal charges. Outside of mind reading, there’s no way to tell if billionaire business genius Donald Trump is a serious Republican contender or a Democrat with an elaborate scheme to blow up the Republican race.
schrodinger's cat
Did anyone see Jindal on Snooze Hour yesterday? I have seen children give better interviews than the two time governor.
Botsplainer
At Clownhall, this appeared (via Free Republic, for the lulz):
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3312229/posts
I think it is within the margin of error for 27%.
Roger Moore
@Villago Delenda Est:
I don’t think they are. Denial is about what you think, not about what you say. The Republicans may act shocked to discover that there are racists in their party, but they wouldn’t dog whistle as well as they do if they weren’t perfectly comfortable pandering to them.
Chyron HR
Shorter Carrrrlos Curbeyyyyo: “But I’m on your side! I’m one of the GOOD ones!”
Patricia Kayden
Why doesn’t Curbelo confront Trump directly instead of writing these passive agressive tweets accusing Democrats of doing something that he knows they are not capable of doing? Even without Trump, the other Clown Car Occupants are pretty awful. Trump is just the cherry on top.
Botsplainer
He’ll have all the momentum of Allen Keyes in Illinois in 2004.
Mr. Longform
That damn Krugman always ruins everything by stating the obvious truth in clear prose. He’s never going to be a serious person if he doesn’t shape up.
A Ghost To Most
Obama just slapped Major Garrett up side the head in the press conference!
Botsplainer
Nooooooo!!!! Don’t do this to us liberals. We’re scared of Trump. Scared!!
JPL
@mai naem mobile: Compared to Major Garrett, he’s an excellent reporter.
Mike in NC
Nobody can improve upon Paul Krugman’s explanation for Trump’s popularity.
Front page of “USA Today”: Trump takes lead in GOP race
He’s up 6 points since June, while JEB! is stalling out and Christie is dead last.
We should take away that exclamation point and give it to Trump!
SiubhanDuinne
I don’t know who that reporter was (Major Somebody?), but he asked a horribly-crafted question about four U.S. hostages in Iran (“Why are you content with their fate while you celebrate the nuke deal?”) and POTUS called him out and told him that was nonsense (I’m sure he wanted to say “bullshit”) and “Major, you should be ashamed of yourself.”
LOL. I adore this President.
Patricia Kayden
@A Ghost To Most: I’m sure it was well deserved.
Matt McIrvin
@NonyNony: As far as I can tell, he’s sucking up support for everyone except Jeb Bush (and, this week, maybe Ted Cruz, but mostly everyone except Bush). Conventional wisdom is that Bush is the electability winner; he’s certainly the Republican-establishment favorite. So that, as you say, argues against the “Democratic plant” hypothesis.
On the other hand, he sure seems to be keeping Scott Walker, who is usually considered one of the more serious threats, from getting much traction so far. So Scott Walker fans might put some credence in this theory.
boatboy_srq
Were the accusation true, the Democrats would be on the hook for Mourdock, Angle, Romney and a host of other wingnuts who’ve spouted marginally less offensive drivel than Trump, and there’d be a long list of others (and a very auditable grift-and-influence trail easily investigated and made public). Nice try, Mr. Curbelo.
schrodinger's cat
@Mr. Longform: Now he gets hate mail from Germany for precisely the same reason.
Josie
@A Ghost To Most: Deservedly so. I thought the president was too easy on him.
A Ghost To Most
@Patricia Kayden:
Indeed it was.
Best president of my lifetime.
rikyrah
this is how I feel about that theory:
The thing about Donald Trump being a Democratic Party Plant.
Um….
what he’s saying is filet mignon to the GOP base.
If what he’s saying is SOOO not Republican…
then why doesn’t he have Carly Fiorina Poll Numbers?
I’ll say it again…
the problem for them with Trump is NOT what he’s saying is WRONG…
It’s that he’s not speaking in dogwhistles anymore. He’s not speaking in Frank Luntz-approved language.
Language that the MSM can hide behind and pretend that they don’t know what the GOP is saying and what it means.
He’s using a 2 by 4 in plain language to show exactly who the GOP is……
and, they can’t hide it.
You notice how NONE of the GOP candidates have said that Trump was WRONG. That Republicans don’t stand for what Trump is saying.
ChiGail
@A Ghost To Most: Wasn’t that beautiful to behold? Lifted me from a nasty depressed mood.
JPL
@rikyrah: The reason talk radio railed against, political correctness is because they wanted to rid themselves of those pesky dog whistles. Assholes, all of them.
@ChiGail: So how does Major report back to CBS? President Obama declined to give me a direct answer to my question.
jl
@Matt McIrvin:
” Scott Walker, who is usually considered one of the more serious threats, from getting much traction so far. ”
Not sure that is true. Growing evidence on Walker’s national level political skills is that a patch of hot ham and rolls and vanilla custard dinner run over by a semi truck on the business route, could prevent Walker from getting much traction. And if that could, even Jeb! could do that too.
Betty Cracker
@A Ghost To Most: Damn, I’m sorry I missed it! Look forward to the re-wind…
Origuy
If Donny does get the GOP nomination, will he change the name of the Republican Party to the Trump Party? Another business with his name on it has declared bankruptcy, The Trump International Golf Club Puerto Rico. He doesn’t own it, he just licensed his name to it. Why is that worth anything?
A Ghost To Most
@ChiGail:
For a moment, I thought Obama might grab Major’s ear and pull him up on stage for a public dressing down.
mai naem mobile
@Karen in GA: lol never seen that clip. Karl asked if PBO had a problem with the Iranians chanting ‘death to America’, Assad praising the deal and a majority of Congress being against it.
boatboy_srq
@Villago Delenda Est: @Roger Moore: Ditto Roger Moore. This isn’t about denial: it’s horror at having such a high-profile dogwhistle-translator as Trump – especially since the plain-language version is doing better than the original
Germandogwhistle sloganeers.ETA: rikyrah beat me to it.
Litlebritdifrnt
And yet he was on a phone interview on MJ this morning just spouting his bullshit and almost no one called him on it. Mika tried a few jabs but got no where, even Halperin attempted to be objective but again got nowhere. When Trump said that he would win the Hispanic vote and beat Hillary “by bringing jobs” not one of the bobble heads asked him how he intended to do it. It was pathetic the way they just allowed him to spew his nonsense.
shell
@Betty Cracker: \ NPR cut away at 2:00, wonder if the cable networks did as well. If so theyre probably kicking themselves for missing that lovely exchange.
jl
@Roger Moore: I think more accurate to say that the GOP masters of the universe have delusions about how well they can control the rabid reactionary base that they have so carefully cultivated.
So,, we have three theories in play on Trump:
He’s hired his name out to the DNCC just like he does for (successful) c*$*n*s and resorts. That is fits his business model, but then there must be a money trail, so this FloridaPol needs to find it.
He has volunteered to do the job himself, which you suggest. But that means a former vanity middle-ground radical moderate third party candidate’s views have swung to the left. My impression is that these narcissists’ views usually go rightward as time goes by.
So, my favorite theory is that Trump’s views, like those of many politicians, have ‘devolved’.
Devolved, degraded and deranged…
Patricia Kayden
@Josie: If President Obama was truly the Chicago thug that so many Conservatives have accused him of being, he would have straight up left the podium and slapped Garrett upside his head. But I’m sure Garrett feels very victimized by President Obama’s cruel, mean words. We’ll see how he spins it on CBS.
catclub
@Mike in NC:
Pataki must not have been on the list of choices.
srv
The liberals that embraced Uncle Joe, Fidel and Sadddam cannot find any love for Donald. Telling.
Jim, Foolish LIteralist
Too fucking funny. I don’t know what he did this time, but the fact that he wasn’t at least suspended for his little game of footsie (about Benghazi! of course) with Republican staffers (IIRC it was said to be Coburn’s at the time) shows how useless ABC news is, maybe more than Bill Kristol, who at least doesn’t pretend to be a reporter.
trollhattan
@Litlebritdifrnt:
My hunch is his handlers tell the “news” show bookers that if they ask any impertinent questions, The Donald will never again deign to give them his platinum-drenched time. And because The Donald=viewership bump at the moment, that’s good enough.
When he pops in on Maddow’s show, I’ll eat those words.
Mary G
Twitter is hilarious right now:
catclub
I was interested in the Slate article on Cruz meeting Trump. Much of it sounds reasonable. Cruz would be trying to take advantage of all the chaos Trump creates.
trollhattan
@catclub:
Who?
I’ll bet 2/3 of New Yorkers don’t remember who Pataki is, much less anyone living in the other forty-nine.
Patricia Kayden
@srv: No, we liberals don’t love racists and bigots. But it’s telling that you and Republicans do. Nuff said.
jl
@boatboy_srq:
Some one needs to work out the evolution of subliminal reactionary signaling. We know people become desensitized and tolerance builds up to addictive psychoactive stimuli, so need higher and higher thresholds to control cravings. As with cigarettes and heroin, you start out taking a little to feel better and end up taking a whole big lot to keep from feeling worse.
My current tentative progression is
dog whistle
flute
fife corps in distance (backed by barely audible snare drum tattoo)
Wurlitzer
Calliope
STEAM Calliope (efg’s favorite)
vuvuzela
air horn
We are getting far down on that list with Cruz and Trump.
Chris
@Villago Delenda Est:
Either that or they’re simply outraged that an outsider engaging in politics as theater is beating them at their own game and more popular with their base than they themselves are.
? Martin
Trump is playing by the rules that Fox set up. The GOPs problem in 2012 was that their little internal war of ideas was toxic to the general public – they were too visible. The plan was to have fewer debates to tone that down, and instead they made a bunch of decisions to force the candidates to go even bigger and louder just to make it onto the debate stage. It’s a simple economic game, and Trump, buffoon that he is, at least knows how to play that game and he’s playing it.
It’s their own fucking fault that the GOP is being laid out bare in front of the whole country.
gnomedad
I just love the image of winger heads exploding trying to choose between liberal conspiracy! and Trump’s venom.
Jeffro
@Josie: “Um, Major…you know we CAN walk and chew gum at the same time, right?”
JPL
Personally, I’d like to see Obama call the reporters on their bullshit, a little more. Even if Major Garrett tries to spin his question, he’ll still see the other reporters, point and laugh at him.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
As somebody said above, who cares even if the Democratic Party were masterminding Trump’s run to fuck up the Republicans? Who gives a shit? If Republicans weren’t eating up what Trump is handing out, it wouldn’t work.
On another note, I’m looking for a brittany spaniel rescue, but it can be hard to get one, since there aren’t that many, and the ones out there sometimes go fast. I’m looking at rescue groups and shelters all over the country, but we live near Washington, D.C. If we end up getting one from Nebraska or somewhere, what are the odds I could find people along the way from the commenters here who’d be willing to shuttle a dog out east?
Patricia Kayden
@Mike J: Coincidence?
jl
I guess we could try to decide how close Trump’s show approaches this kind of thing:
AIR HORN PRANK VS. HOT CHICKS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSERP80y4Jc
Jeffro
@catclub: I can just see the back and forth on that one, each trying to talk the other into the Veep slot…lol…
Tree With Water
@Villago Delenda Est: “It’s just that GOP politicians are in deep, deep denial about the nature of their base”.
I don’t think so. Again, look what happened in California. It’s who those people are. Just as there’s not a dime’s worth of difference between the 2016 GOP presidential contenders, so it is with republican politicians and their rank and file.
Mike in NC
Looking forward to the inevitable Trump! photo-op to be held on the Mexican border, with him surrounded by heavily armed loons who he’s promised to pay a bounty to for every illegal they bag.
Many of the idiots supporting him think the government just needs to be run by a businessman, forgetting that Dubya had an MBA.
jnfr
The whole press conference was magnificent.
jibeaux
@jl: that sounded pretty tasty until you got to the runned over part.
jl
@Josie:
” Deservedly so. I thought the president was too easy on him. ”
I thought so too. I have no problem with the core subject matter of the question, since it is one of the stupid objections to the deal that the GOPer politicians are screeching about. So, a fair question for a news conference.
But it was framed in a very personally insulting, and I think also stupid, way. Why shouldn’t Obama react to that?
I’m sick of these bogus journalist news celebrities editorializing and trying to stuff their BS down everyone’s throat.
Good for Obama. Truman would have probably used some bad words, or maybe suggested the dope Garrett should come up a little closer and try to ask the snotty question again. So, I think Obama handled it just right.
NonyNony
@Matt McIrvin:
If it weren’t for the fact that I think this could not be predicted (i.e. that the support would rally behind Jeb Bush when faced with Trump as a likely Tea Party Base Choice), I’d almost think that the Bush Family was paying The Donald under the table to suck up all of the oxygen from the other weirdos. (As it is I think Trump’s motivations can all boil right down to his own narcissistic ego – Occam’s Razor suggests we need little else this time around.)
The thing is – Scott Walker has a media problem. One that I predicted he would have. Because Walker is a hick from the sticks college dropout whose parents were nobodies. And he never had a position in Washington DC or family ties to the DC elite. The political press have no enthusiasm for him and will continue to lack enthusiasm unless he wins primaries and becomes the second coming of Ronald Reagan. But I’ve heard him speak and he’s no George W Bush, let alone Ronald Reagan. If Jeb! flames out and no other credible alternative remains the political press might try to fluff him as an opponent to Clinton so they can get their horserace, but the Bush family are DC elite, and so as long as Jeb! has a shot they’re going to be ignoring Walker for the most part.
Walker has to survive until the primaries and then WIN multiple primaries early on to even be competitive. If he can’t win one of Iowa, NH or SC he’s probably toast. If Jeb! wins at least 2 of them then Walker is definitely toast. The rest of the grifters can hang on for a while, but anyone with serious ambitions is going to get knocked out if Jeb! wins more than one of the early contests. If Walker can win 2-3 of them, then he’ll start getting the press fluffers around him because they like a good come from behind story and it’ll override their elitism to a degree.
(This continues to be why I worry about Kasich. Kasich has ties to the political media because he worked in the political media. He’s got the ties to the culture there and so he may have some of the support that Walker isn’t getting.)
Belafon
@Tree With Water: Maybe what the GOP is in denial about is thinking that their base was smart enough to punish those that said those things out loud.
TaMara (BHF)
@jnfr: This. I walked in my door and turned it on halfway through. That man can teach. Too bad so many are so resistant to learnin’.
Chris
@Tree With Water:
Yep. Like I said, the only thing Republican politicians are angry at is that Trump is better at their own game than they are.
JPL
For those that missed Major Garrett’s question… Mediaite has it… link
TaMara (BHF)
@jl: I must have missed that part. What horrible thing did Garrett say? I’m surprised he didn’t burst into flames, because Obama was on fire in the part I saw.
ETA: Nevermind JPL linked it.
Mike J
@Tree With Water:
I’m having an amusing back and forth with a Republican on imgur. He claims that Republicans don’t all believe the same things. I asked him to name policy differences between Trump and mainstream candidates. “We’re not all alike!” “How are you different?” “You don’t understand, we’re not all alike!!”
I’d actually be rather shocked if he could name a single policy that any Republican is in favor of.
The Moar You Know
I can understand the concern. And there are reasons to believe it; mostly Combover’s stated positions from the last time he ran in 1999.
But the core fact of the matter is this: Dems don’t like soiling their hands, and would far rather lose an election than fight on the level of their opponents.
TaMara (BHF)
@JPL: What an ass. No that’s insulting asses. He’s the puss on the hemorrhoid that is our esteemed press corp.
NonyNony
@Mike J:
Eh – Tax cuts. They’re all in favor of tax cuts.
I’d be shocked if he could name a policy that he’s a) in favor of and b) isn’t also something that all of the Republican candidates in the race are also in favor of.
shell
I dont know, for me its pretty simple. Trump knows hes got that fabled snow ball;s chance of getting the nomination, let alone the White House, so hes free to spout whatever rapid trash he wants to.
BR
Trump is peaking too early — he’s not going to maintain this level of support for the next 6 months. Unless he backs off for a while and then surges again in December, he’s not going to make it to Iowa let alone get nominated.
Also, even if Ailes did sit down with Trump early on and make him a deal, I can see Fox turning on him in a few months and as Trump stumbles Fox will hand him an anchor so they can put their effort into getting someone electable nominated.
The Moar You Know
@NonyNony: The college dropout thing is going to kill him. Not with his prospective voters – they like ’em dumb – but with the media, the beltway brigade, and any moneyman not named “Koch”. Because the reason you go to college is not for education but for networking, and Walker seems to have been spectacularly uninterested in that. And of all the people in this race, he needed it the most, because as you note his parents were nobodies.
Also, you need to have actually graduated for the “networking” thing to come into play. If you dropped out, you’re radioactive.
ETA: quite a few folks in this thread seem to think Trump could not possibly win the primary. I think you are all very wrong about that.
jl
@The Moar You Know:
” And there are reasons to believe it; mostly Combover’s stated positions from the last time he ran in 1999. ”
Maybe with other politicians, but with Trump? It’s like asking why he changes the Trump signage for his next resort branding deal, the most important question is ‘what looks classy and yoooge, and sells?’. Trump has thought about life that way for so long, its probably changed his brain circuits forever.
And I may be wrong, but as I said above, my impression is that narcissistic independents who flame out in goofy ‘third way’ candidacies usually swerve reactionary after their offer of great wisdom and leadership go unappreciated.
catclub
@The Moar You Know:
Now you are going to make an exception for LBJ and Richard Daley. Who generally did not lose. Andrew Cuomo? Harry Reid?
Elizabeth Warren? No evidence they prefer losing.
srv
Hillary is in a real bind here, she can’t attack Sander’s border hippies and can’t triangulate right.
A bus and no one to run over, what will she do?
catclub
@The Moar You Know:
So all that time in the University senate and running for student Pres was not networking. Also running for office at 22 shows no evidence of networking within the GOP. Got it.
NonyNony
@shell: I disagree – I think Trump really thinks he’s got a chance to win it. He’s a narcissist with an ego the size of Manhattan. His schtick is that he always believes whatever comes out of his mouth while he’s saying it, he just isn’t too terribly tied to any belief once he’s said it.
This is where, if he’s perceived as a real threat by Team Bush, he will be crucified. Because all you have to do is go back to any number of his previously recorded statements (of which there are almost literally DECADES worth of footage to choose from at this point – the man’s ego makes him think that people care about what he says and so he’s got so much footage to milk) and cut together some commercials with him saying whatever he believed at the time (at various times he’s said things that make him sound like a Democrat – that’ll be sufficient) and then pound those into the local Jeopardy/Wheel of Fortune timeslot as well as blanketing Fox News with them. Maybe a few radio ads to buy up some airtime on talk radio as well. You don’t need to convince the 27% of the GOP that are going to vote for him to switch their votes to you – you just need to dissuade them from voting for him. Or possibly at all. And that’ll be relatively easy to do with The Donald, given that the reason they want to vote for him is because they think he’s a Republicans Republican – knock him off that pedestal and it’ll be like how the votes for Ross Perot dried up when it became obvious that he was clearly insane. For the primary that’s all you need if you’re the guy in second place to The Donald.
NonyNony
@The Moar You Know:
I’ll put down a marker right here – Trump’s ceiling for primary votes in the GOP primary is 27%.
This may be enough for him to win some of the primaries, given the number of candidates in the running on the GOPer side this time around. But if he gets more than 27% of the GOPer vote in any individual primary I will, I dunno, eat my hat or something.
(Save this quote Moar – remind me of it when The Donald wins the GOP primary. Or even if he manages to hit 30% of the vote total in a state. Part of me will be surprised if his fragile ego even makes it to Iowa…)
rikyrah
@? Martin:
THIS.
Fox said…whomever’s leading in the POLLS gets to be in the debate.
I’m LMAO at them now trying to change the rules.
catclub
I know! They have put a contract out on him, and are waiting for El Chapo to complete it.
mai naem mobile
I wonder if Trumps run started as a stunt and then the crowds and the yes men team around him pumped up his ego to the point where he actually thinks it’s a plausible scenario. Kind of like Nader.
japa21
I don’t which is more of a statement of the state of the current media:
Garrett’s totally disrespectful and falsely based question or
So many members of the media are supporting Garrett for being a professional and asking “spot-on” questions.
Betty Cracker
@JPL: Thank you. Post updated with the link above.
boatboy_srq
@jl: Agreed. We’re going to have to decide, though, things like whether the Fender Stratocaster is its own thing, or needs the Peavey “Spinal Tap Edition” amp (with 11 clearly marked) as part of the package.
Kathleen
@SiubhanDuinne: I heard the press conference off and on and what struck me was Obama’s determination to carefully define the background, objectives and the parameters of the agreement as well as logically defuse arguments against the agreement that “reporters” might ask. My impression was that he was not going to allow the press to nickle dime him with “But Graham said this”, “Bibi said that”, “Republicans blah blah blah” in their typical horse race fashion. He wanted to clearly and carefully educate the press and the public about this agreement and consequences of not implementing it. Lord knows the mainslime media could not be bothered understand or report it.
I chuckled when he used phrases such as, “As you know”, probably knowing full well the sycophants didn’t bother to educate themselves or pay attention to previous press conferences or addresses.
Kropadope
It’s funny, I also think he is running to subvert the Republicans. I don’t, however, think he was planted by the DNC. I just think he’s a guy who normally holds Democrat-leaning beliefs (see his previous presidential run), but is running as a Republican to say what the Republicans believe without sugar-coating it. I think he’s acting, but I wouldn’t stake so much as $10 on it, cuz it almost seems to real to be insincere.
Still, my reason to believe he may be a secret Democrat requires some version of “Republican ideas are plainly awful and Donald is demonstrating that.” What line of reasoning could this Curbelo fellow be using to come to the same conclusion?
Kathleen
@JPL: Time for another Benghazi-esque expose on 60 Minutes. I’m sure Lara Logan is gathering the GOP talking points as we type.
Mustang Bobby
Mr. Curbelo used to be my boss in that he was on the Miami-Dade County School Board until he heard the higher calling (and salary) of Washington. He is as teabaggery as he sounds.
rikyrah
@NonyNony:
ICAM with you about Walker.
? Martin
@NonyNony: The problem with such a marker is that his ceiling grows as candidates drop out. He’s got a 57% favorability rating with Republican voters now even though effectively every single other voter in the country hates him. If that holds (and it’s climbing) then he’ll blow through that 27%. The wildcard here may well be the debates. If the other candidates prove ineffective at punching back at Trump (and I don’t see JEB! or Walker succeeding here), he may stay up front even if he keeps saying stupid things (Gingrich held on for a long-ass time doing just this). Trump would do well to leave Cruz and Christie alone for that reason.
catclub
@Kropadope: This ignores the fact that Obama embarassed him on his following the Birth Certificate crap. He holds grudges and is not very smart. I think that drives him to run in the GOP race.
The grudges bit is also why no present candidates are going after him.
jl
‘ Major Garrett, who larded up the question with wingnut talking points’, personal insults, very doubtful, unsupported accusations of betrayal of military brass, delivered in the form of self-righteous declaration of obvious truth.
Added some amplification in the interests of accuracy.
The core subject matter of the question was legitimate, and one wonders why Garrett just did not ask the effing question, and spare himself the deserved scolding.
Edit: And the first of Garrett’s questions could simply have been asked as “GOP critics say that the issue of American hostages held by Iran should have been included in the talks. Why was it not?”
Omnes Omnibus
@NonyNony: I think Walker has to win Iowa or at worst run a very close second there or he is toast.
sharl
@JPL:
It should come as a surprise to no one that folks who think Obama is the epitome of eeeeevil believe that Major Garrett committed an act of brave and honest journalism. This link brings up a currently active/growing timeline of tweets that contain “Major Garrett” and “Iran” in the same posting, and as such it shows both praise and condemnation for both the President and Major Garrett. It’s like watching Rashomon, but without the entertainment value or suspense.
boatboy_srq
@Mustang Bobby: I thought the name was familiar…
Hal
Donald trump is the end result of gerrymandered districts that are too chock full o’conservative nuts, pandering to the tea party and supporting every conspiracy about Obama and the dems ever to make a few rounds on a red state comment thread. Mix with decades old GOP racism and viola! Trump.
Betty Cracker
@NonyNony: I agree. That sort of push back (i.e., Trump isn’t a real Republican and is even suspiciously liberal) is already occurring in the establishment conservative outlets like National Review. Eventually some GOP PAC will put together a highlight reel such as you describe and blast him out of the water.
Mike J
@jl:
Because everybody is saying his name now and nobody could have told you he existed beforehand.
Betty Cracker
@jl: The core question may have been legit when an actual reporter asked it earlier. The verbiage that dribbled out of Garrett’s yap wasn’t a real question in the sense that he was seeking an answer to any legitimate inquiry; he was just delivering pre-fab talking points.
jl
@Betty Cracker: I missed that BOTH of Garrett’s questions were asked and answered earlier. I wasn’t able to watch the whole thing. I thought Obama did a great job of explaining the Iran deal.
I was reading some of Truman’s presser transcripts a while ago and was struck by how much more deferential politicians, particulary, i think, Democratic politicians, are to the press now. Truman said things like (roughly paraphrasing) ‘That question doesn’t make any sense. Want to try again? Or I can just try to explain it to you.”, or “I’m not really eager to talk about that, since most of you misreported what I have said previously. Maybe I’ll talk about it later when I see that you folks can get it right”.. “A lot of what you just said isn’t true, Where’d you get that nonsense’. Things like that, which I found refreshing.
John Revolta
@catclub: I see one person on that list that was born before 1950. Comparing current Dems to LBJ is like comparing Scott Walker to Dwight Eisenhower.
Chris
@jl:
That is outstanding.
Is it just me, or were Democrats just generally more confrontational in re the “establishment” (which corporate media definitely counts as) back then? FDR’s “I welcome their hatred,” etc.
John Revolta
After. After 1950. I mean.
A Ghost To Most
@Betty Cracker: Exactly.
Hopefully PBO having none of it will make him think twice next time.
Yeah right.
Kropadope
@catclub:
How did Obama embarrass him? To the people who already understood the truth, he was embarrassing himself long before Obama did anything. To the die-hard birthers, no evidence will suffice. I don’t think Obama embarrassed him, I just think that was Donald’s earlier attempt to embarrass the Republicans.
John Revolta
Also while we’re talking about the press, I hear Hillary delivered a major economic speech Monday. Has anybody heard a goddamned thing about it?
Betty Cracker
@Kropadope: Obama mocked Trump at the WH Correspondents’ Dinner — at which Trump was in attendance. Of course, Trump richly deserved that mockery and much more or his racist and stupid pursuit of the birth certificate question. But I’m sure it frosted Trump’s ass to have to sit there and be ridiculed from the stage.
catclub
@John Revolta: Like I said, an exception to the generalization. So The California Democratic Party wins 2/3 majorities in both houses by kindness and keeping their hands clean?
Or is that another group we meant to make an exception for?
Kropadope
@catclub:
Well, I was around for one of those elections and I can assure you that Elizabeth Warren did not fight dirty or reduce herself to the level of her opponents. Incidentally, I’m pretty sure that’s why she won.
As far as LBJ, he seems to be the guy every Republican is actually criticizing when complaining about ::insert any Democrat here:: Most arguments against the ACA (aside from ones based around the individual mandate specifically) are actually arguments against Medicaid, for example.
Kropadope
@Betty Cracker: Gotcha. I didn’t know that, but isn’t that the purpose of the White House Correspondence dinner? That’s a lot like Trump getting mad at what was said at the Comedy Central Roast of Donald Trump.
jl
@John Revolta:
Well, below is a link to the speech. I think it was too general too create much media buzz. I think she just outlined a center-left set of ideas that could be stretched out to get near Sanders if his proposals keep gaining steam.
Hillary Clinton’s Economic Speech at The New School University
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDs3XtC6zW8
jl
@catclub:
” So The California Democratic Party wins 2/3 majorities in both houses by kindness and keeping their hands clean? ”
What recent dirty work by the CA Dems do you have in mind?
There were three or four personally crooked Dems who were bounced out, so aside from that?
Kropadope
@catclub:
Making one’s case forcefully and persuasively is not equal to getting one’s hands dirty or bullshitting one’s way into office. In the case of Democrats, the bullshitting is generally a handicap and the MSM makes sure that every piece of dirt, whether deserved or not, sticks.
Althea
Nope, he’s all yours, GOP. Enjoy like caviar.
Kropadope
@Althea:
Around the edge of sushi? On crackers?
Jeffro
When can we get a thread on just how bold this president’s getting? Freeing drug dealers well before his last day in office, pounding the GOP’s nonsense on Iran (never mind the spanking he just gave Major Garrett), moving on overtime pay, etc etc. I think the pace of what the White House is doing in any given week is and has been accelerating dramatically these past 9 months or so.
At this rate, we’ll have single-payer by October, I’m sure ;)
Gravenstone
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): In the thread from last night where you first broached your desires about the spaniels, a few commenters found/suggested some rescue orgs in MA. You might want to head back to that thread for the details.
jl
@Kropadope: I worked on a couple of local campaigns for state leg that got Dems over 2/3 hump. I didn’t see that they had to do anything much special, other than effective outreach and GOTV. The CA GOP has gotten very ineffective, rude and extreme and patently crazy and nasty in public, that the Dems did not have to do anything special to pick up a few districts.
jl
@Jeffro:
” When can we get a thread on just how bold this president’s getting? ”
I second that. Would be interesting to hear from BJ political people working in various places.
My current hunch is that Obama is very interested in seeing Democratic gains in 2016, in order to perserve his accomplishments, but also to prepare ground for more progress, and so he is keeping ear to ground on what is happening with HRC and Sanders to sense what direction he should go to make the most of the opportunities.
Kropadope
@jl: Here in MA, the Ds have had a persistent 2/3 majority for as long as I’ve been old enough to notice. They seem to manage without running slimy campaigns. Most of them seem to wait til they’re in office to be slimeballs, apparently a requirement for house majority leader.
Keith G
Ya know that ear ringing you get when you have done something asshole-ish and stupid…and then get called out on it in a big way?
I imagine Major Garrett’s ears were ringing.
catclub
@jl: @Kropadope:
My point to Moar was that he implied that Democrats preferred not to win. I disagreed. Did I misunderstand him when he wrote this:
I think if you could convince Obama he would win if he fought dirty, he would do it in a flash.
If you go to far right blogs they say the same thing. ‘If we only fought dirty like those Dems, we would be winning!’ I think both ends are wrong here. Both sides fight as dirty as they dare, and both sides fight hard to win.
John Revolta
@jl: Thanks.
I also find it interesting that all three Dem candidates spoke to enthusiastic crowds at the La Raza conference (and that not a single GOP candidate bothered to show up) and the MSM gives the whole event a massive chorus of crickets.
Jeffro
@jl: That’s interesting. Well, we know he lost all hope of actually working with the Insanity Party a whiles back and so by extension is committed to getting as much done as possible before he leaves office. It does seem to me that the pace is really picking up these past few months, too.
Frankly, I would not be surprised to see truly historic numbers of pardons issued for non-violent drug offenders sometime between the election and Inaguration Day. As in, five digits worth or better.
jl
@Jeffro: Read a poll this morning that 2/3 of US public support the Iran negotiations. I did not know it was that high. Obama has a good political sense (edit: I should delete the previous sentence in order to avoid ridicule for faint praise). The economic recovery is finely gaining steam (though I think Obama could have had that much sooner if he had sounder sense for economics). So, also, I think Obama knows when to get more aggressive on his agenda when he senses that selling it harder will be win for him and whoever comes afterwards.
Josie
@jl:
I agree completely, and I emailed CBS to state my feelings about that. I also asked that they send someone more intelligent and less biased to the next news event. They need to get some feedback on such bad reporting.
Splitting Image
It’s perfectly simple.
If Trump wins, then he is speaking truth to power, and his disavowal of positions he held in 1999 is proof that American Voters (i.e. older white males) are moving away from liberalism, the Democrats are in disarray, and the U.S. is a centre-right nation.
If Trump loses, then he was simply a Democratic plant to stir the pot and Republicans were smart not to fall for it. Just goes to show that liberals are slimy bastards and will do anything to win. Not to mention that Democrats are the real racists, considering everything Trump said about Mexicans.
We’ll know once the primaries get started.
Brachiator
I recall the wife of some Israeli government official making a joke about Obama being weak. And yet, the Iran deal for now has Netanyahu looking very bad, and losing influence faster than a tire with a puncture. The net result could actually be good for Israel and Middle East peace. A few points from the Guardian (and their leftwing stance is duly noted)
I didn’t realize that there was no foreign minister. Wouldn’t this be like a US president trying to do foreign policy without a secretary of state?
A little more.
If this is Obama being weak, gimme some more of this!
The sad thing is that the GOP is committed by nature to trying to undo this deal. One bit of conventional wisdom is to suggest that people should vote Democrat no matter what, because of the Supreme Court. Add to that Obamacare and this Iran deal.
The Guardian article can be found here:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/15/binyamin-netanyahu-slated-israel-foreign-policy-failure-iran-nuclear-accord
Kropadope
@Jeffro:
To tie this in with the conversation about Major Garrett; I noticed as Obama was asked the now-infamous question, he smiled as if he were thinking “I’m going to rip this guy a new asshole.” I’m sure the still-deteriorating state of his opponents is a huge driver of his boldness, plus the slim range of issues where legislative cooperation may take place.
Watching that video made me feel like I wanted a job writing headlines at Faux News, it would be so easy. “President Obama smiles at mention of dubiously imprisoned U.S. soldiers, news at 11.”
Jim, Foolish LIteralist
Comments like this, from our side and I guess theirs, assume that all Dems want the same thing, just some are too corrupt or gutless to go for it. I don’t think much of Joe Mancin, but I think he sincerely believes every silly word he says. Not only believes it, probably thinks people who disagree with him are stupid, or at least bloody-minded and unreasonable. See also DiFi, Jim Webb, Evan Bayh….
Also, and apologies if I’m wrong, isn’t the commenter who started this the one who occasionally asserts that Obama is to the right of Reagan?
jl
@Kropadope: I think some of Obama’s reaction was entirely spontaneous and natural. He has had to endure so much similar BS from the media and the GOP. It’s like some noxious relative who starts spouting the same old BS in the same old way. You start to smile, to keep yourself from yelling “Shut up!”, and you are bemused at the jerk pulling out the same old act again, in such a brazen mindless way it is difficult to believe you are seeing it with your own eyes.
I think it was that kind of smile, at least at first.
Ted Mills
That was a beautiful steaming cup of STFU that Obama handed the Major
Chris T.
@srv: Neither can the liberals that embraced Genghis Khan, nor the Martians that embraced Julio Mercapteral, nor the mole people who ate New York last week.
That’s the thing about empty sets, they do everything! Every claim about their members is vacuously true…
Chris
@Brachiator:
If all this agreement did was give Israeli politicians a loud and clear message that not all American presidents will, in fact, simply ask “how high, sir?” when Israel says “jump,” it would have been worth it for that alone.
Kropadope
@jl: I’m sure it was entirely spontaneous and natural. Still, I’m sure the sort of bemusement you describe can bleed into “I’m gonna rip him a new one” at the speed of thought. And, boy, did he ever….
Kropadope
@Chris: Hear, hear!!!!!eleventy!!!!!
gelfling545
But if Trump did not run we never would have had #TrumpYourCat.
bystander
Just went to CBS News facebook page to register my disgust. The Major Garrett episode is outrageous.
dmbeaster
@Botsplainer: That quoted remark proves Cleek’s Law.
Kropadope
@dmbeaster: Demonstrates Cleek’s law, perhaps, but a single instance will not prove it.
Unfortunately, Congressional Republicans proved Cleek’s law years ago.
Applejinx
Trump isn’t a fool in the domain of manipulating people and stomping them. Neither is he a shrinking violet, and he will punch up, down, or any which way without hesitation.
If the Republicans try to tar him with a RINO brush, he’ll just say they’re making it up. Video evidence? He won’t care. He’ll say they’re the RINOs, they’re Washington fatcats trying to pull a fast one and stick some Washington shithead in the throne that’s meant for a HYOOOGE star. And they’re spending billions of dollars to tell lies. And let ’em! Because he has billions of dollars and he has the truth!
Trump’s been going after Mexicans as a multilayered shot against Jeb Bush. First, he would like to establish that Bush married a Mexican and made little half-Mexicans. He’s fully capable of a nasty snipe at just the right time, a savage burn. Lives for that stuff. Second, he wouldn’t mind rattling Bush and making him look worried, and again has no problem doing it with a low blow. He’s made for politics, this guy.
The Republicans have got to be shitting themselves. Trump does all the stuff they do, more brazenly, and since he benefits from looking like he has nobody’s support but his own, he can’t be cowed by the establishment. And it’s impossible to get more HYOOOGE media attention than in becoming President. I’m pretty sure he’s going for broke, and could well be the nominee.
The funniest part is, if he did win he’d probably be not as bad as numerous other Republican candidates. I’d take Trump over Scott Walker in a heartbeat. Trump is just not as connected to the whole rightwing ‘shock doctrine’ machinery, as he doesn’t have to be, he’s never had to work for power and influence in his life. You could rename Obamacare TrumpCare and he would be down with it.
Hell, he’d probably do singlepayer if he could get his name on everything associated with it. This is not a guy who would try to drown a Trump Government in the bathtub. If he was President, it would be a HYOOOGE government, the greatest government ever. He simply does not operate on the same wavelength as establishment Republicans.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
@Gravenstone:
Yeah, I looked there. They have some I’ve put in applications for, but it’s always hard to tell whether you can snatch ’em before somebody else gets there first, so I’m spreading my net as widely as I can.
RaflW
@John Revolta:
But the domestic latin press (Univision, etc) certainly didn’t give it a pass. Look, even if Weasel-hair wasn’t actively insulting vast swathes of America, latino voters are getting the message: the GOP base quite dislikes you, and Republican elites are, at best, utterly clueless about what to do about it. At worst, they agree with Trump.
It’s insane, tactically. But then, they really can’t control the monster they reanimated.
RaflW
@Josie: Thanks for the suggestion. I just wrote to CBS news as well.
Chris
@RaflW:
This kind of thing reminds me of Dewey/Truman. The media of the day was certain it would be Dewey… because they were basing themselves on phone polls at a time when much of the country still didn’t have a phone, and those who didn’t tended to be Truman voters.
Latinos are the same level of invisible for our current MSM, and it’s going to bite them in the ass more and more.
Jeffro
@RaflW: Great call – gonna do that in a second so I’m not just, you know, blowing off steam on a message board as I tend to do. ;)
Jeffro
@Brachiator: So here is the thing that kills me: if Netanyahu hadn’t been so emboldened by years/decades of the US always caving to what Israel wants, and by the backstabbing ways of this GOP congress in particular, he could easily, EASILY, have gotten out in front of this, made it look like it was his idea, he’s all for it, “let’s finally put the screws to these Iranians”…and he would have had a better chance of scuttling the deal(!) After all, if Israel is for it…why should Iran go for it??
lol
I’m sure 50% of why Iran went along with it was the sheer delight in watching Israel, BN in particular, twist itself in knots over this.
PaulW
It doesn’t matter if Trump is a liberal stooge or not.
What matters is that a lot of Republican primary voters – the party’s far right base – are eating up Trump’s message like cookie dough ice cream with whipped banana cream pudding on top. Those people are NOT liberal plants.
PaulW
@Chris:
What happened actually was the mainstream press stopped polling in September, convinced the whole thing was settled. They never noticed the growing crowds of support for Truman, and the Republicans bought into the “invincibility” meme allowing Dewey to cool down his own campaign rather than keep the engines running.
It didn’t help that a lot of the newspaper editors/owners were conservative/Republican at the time, and were existing in their own bubble (much like the Fox media closed circle of today). Come election night, the radio announcers were flummoxed by the Truman numbers and kept saying “well, Truman may be leading at the moment, but we guarantee any moment now Dewey’s turnout will show…!” much in the same way Karl Rove kept insisting Ohio would go for Mitt even as the state was clearly going for Obama.
The whole “phone poll” thing was from 1936, when some of the pollsters were finding Alf Landon (!!!!!!!) in the lead over FDR… right before Roosevelt issued a 48-state curb-stomp victory over the GOP. If you remember how Mondale imploded in 1984, you might have an idea how that went.
Chris
@PaulW:
Thanks for the corrections. Interesting, especially the part about the Fox News bubble of the day and age. “Wired for Republicans” isn’t just a recent thing.
Dave
@PaulW: Somewhat tangential but my favorite thing about the Rove meltdown that is often overlooked is that even as it was going on it didn’t matter to the outcome! Obama had already won the electoral votes he needed. He was already over 270 and yet Rove and Fox were in this weird thing where if somehow Romney had actually won Ohio it would have made a difference to the outcome of the election (It would matter for other reasons but not the primary reason). It was a fascinating and public example of people being focused on a single fact and missing the broader landscape.