I don’t know much about how my kids will turn out when they get older. I know a few things though.
I know my daughter will be a massive dork (as she cried last night that she missed school as she was not learning enough new things at summer camp, and could we buy her some new math workbooks). I know she will be a goof ball with a massive amount of empathy and a strongly developped sense of fairness. I know that when she is adult, her possibility space will be massive.
I know even less about my son’s adulthood as his personality is still developing.
I won’t be surprised if his primary interaction mechanism is as the smart ass class clown persona as he has already developped a good sense of timing for the prat-fall. I think he’ll be reasonably atheletic when he can breathe. His possibility space at 18 will also be much larger than my self-imposed limited possibility space when I was eighteen.
I have no clue who they will love, I have no clue who will make their motor turn on… and guess what I don’t have to worry that if my daughter brings home a great girl who encourages her to be the best person that she can be while my daughter encourages her to be the best that she can be as well, that they’ll face legal and structural hurdles to their happiness. I don’t have to worry about my son bringing home a great guy while being stressed out about not being able to follow a dream because that dream is in a bigot state. I’ll still worry about them bringing home an asshole.
Their possibility space just widened a little bit this morning. Being their dad, that makes my day.
Betty Cracker
Amen and amen. Well put. This is a great day.
benw
Dad high five!
Chris
AMERICA! FUCK YEAH!
JPL
What a wonderful post!
Elizabelle
Wonderful post.
I like the “possibility space” concept.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
I have a cute kid story that my boss told us:
She has twin boys who are about to go into kindergarten and one of them is very sad that they’re going to grow up and move away someday, so his proposed solution is that they’ll get married.
She said, “Well, yes, boys can marry boys, but he’s your brother, so you can’t marry him.”
I think the eventual solution was that they will buy houses next door to each other and that will be good enough.
What can I say, it was adorable the way she told it.
Bill
My 14 year old daughter came out last year. She now get to have the life she wants with who she wants.
From one Dad to another, thanks for this post.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
Also, too, IIRC it’s pretty common for kids of that age to announce that they’re going to marry a parent or sibling because the whole “sex” thing doesn’t even enter into the equation in their preadolescent minds. Once those hormones start flowing, then they get why it’s not workable.
chopper
that describes my daughter to a T.
Brachiator
Great post.
Felonius Monk
AMEN as well.
g
Beautiful
Gimlet
Anyone hear from “little Ricky” yet or the “Huckster”/
chopper
this news is so awesome it more than makes up for the fact that my A/C is broke and it’s a hundred degrees out today.
FlipYrWhig
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
Which also has the merit of being the happy ending favored by Jane Austen.
? Martin
My son broke the news to me in the car on the way to work. He’s excited. My daughter will also be excited. Neither is gay, but they are compassionate individuals. We have friends. They have friends. They know right from wrong.
We had the first No on 8 sign in our neighborhood. Lost some friends over that sign – made some others. Lost that particular battle, but there will be many high-5s today.
This week is having an outsized influence on that arc of the moral universe.
chopper
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
a few years ago two twin boys at my daughter’s preschool were in love with her and they wanted to have a three-way marriage. i had to explain to her that that probably wasn’t going to end up happening.
cmorenc
@Richard Mayhew:
Two of the monsters in every decent parent’s nightmare closet are:
1) the possibility your own child will turn out to be a colossal doof or asshole;
2) the possibility they’ll become irresistibly attached to some colossal doof or asshole, and to complicate things even worse, make disastrously sticking with that choice the cornerstone of rebelling against you and establishing their independence.
…because you know in your heart, in a decade or so they’ll come crawling back to you to help them pick up the messy (and often expensive) pieces, some of which can never be entirely fixed, and you will find it impossible to say “no”, at least not until their trainwreck is imminently about to run over you as well if you don’t remove yourself.
raven
Damn, Georgia gets right on it.
<blockquoteIn the aftermath of the decision, Mr. Olens wrote, “State agencies and employees should immediately review their current practices related to their agency’s function and benefits and ensure that their practices conform to the current state of the law.”
Separately, Gov. Nathan Deal said on Twitter that while he thought states should decide marriage policies instead of the courts, “The State of Georgia is subject to the laws of the United States, and we will follow them.”
bemused
What a breathtaking week in the Supreme Court. When you wonder if those walls will ever come tumbling down, suddenly they do.
When I read that there is a kickstarter for a film on Molly Ivins life, Raise Hell, I got teary. I would so love to read her thoughts on this week and everything insane and wonderful that has happened since she passed away. I miss her so much.
? Martin
@Gimlet: Both are apoplectic.
raven
@cmorenc: My half brother is married to a fucking obnoxious tea bagger and I but all contact save sending their kids birthday and xmas shit.
JPL
@raven: Fulton County issued licenses as soon as the announcement was made.
raven
@JPL: The state government is full of gay staff folks. Be interesting to see what happens with that.
azlib
Amen Richard. Here is a song about this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cC6f64d_Nc
Burnspbesq
Beautifully put.
I have a dog in this fight, and I’ve been close to tears all morning.
Randy P
@cmorenc: There were some assholes among the relationships for both daughters, but Dad never got a vote. Nobody asked me (or Mom, so far as I know) and I didn’t volunteer. They both showed the sense to marry amazing guys who worship them.
I agree with you that worrying about assholes, especially violent assholes, especially violent assholes with guns and mental illness, is a much bigger concern for a Dad than whether a daughter is gay. That subject didn’t happen to come up in our house except in theoretical discussion (to which I hope I gave good answers).
@Richard:
I could never understand how anybody could love their wife or daughter and not be a full-fledged feminist, and if they are LGBT, full-fledged defender of LGBT rights. How do you reconcile love with not wanting the best for your own loved ones?
Gimlet
3 days ago
If Rick Santorum is elected president, he will not enforce any ruling by the Supreme Court that legalizes gay marriage.
Recently, Santorum called into Glen Beck’s radio show to make his claims public. He said that the Supreme Court striking down gay marriage bans is “tantamount to government establishing religion.”
Santorum went on to say that a ruling such as this by the highest court in the land would essentially mean the government can tell religious groups what to believe and how they can believe it. He said that this is in clear violation of the “Establishment Clause in the Constitution.”
FlipYrWhig
Annnnnnd cue the radicaler-than-thou pouting on my FB feed about how all marriage is a neoliberal trap. Some people just can’t take yes for an answer.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@cmorenc:
Unfortunately, one of my nieces has fallen into option 2. Since she’s almost 20, all we can do is stand by and hope she wakes up eventually.
WereBear
It’s not love. It’s ownership.
Burnspbesq
@bemused:
I imagine a jubilant high-five between Molly and Steve Gilliard, somewhere in Heaven, while all the couples who were never able to fully and publicly express their love dance in the streets, and God looks down and says “Yeah. This is pretty cool.”
elftx
That was a sweet thing to say.
bemused
@WereBear:
Their own feelings take priority. Me, me, me.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
Also, I was a little mean to my brother-in-law this morning and IMed him to ask when he’s finally going to find a nice boy and settle down, because his mother is worried about him.
Gimlet
More reaction
Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal, who has made religious liberty a major theme of his bid for the Republican presidential nomination, said the decision will “pave the way for an all out assault against the religious freedom rights of Christians who disagree with this decision.”
“The Supreme Court decision today conveniently and not surprisingly follows public opinion polls, and tramples on states’ rights that were once protected by the 10th Amendment of the Constitution,” Jindal said in a statement. “Marriage between a man and a woman was established by God, and no earthly court can alter that.”
Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee vowed not to “acquiesce to an imperial court any more than our Founders acquiesced to an imperial British monarch.”
“The Supreme Court has spoken with a very divided voice on something only the Supreme Being can do — redefine marriage,” Huckabee said. “We must resist and reject judicial tyranny, not retreat.”
Next week, Huckabee will embark on a “Religious Liberty Townhall Tour” through Iowa.
Randy P
@Gimlet: Le sigh.
No, Ricky. It is a guidance from the Supreme Court to the States. Nothing to do with churches. The States define what they legally recognize as marriage, not the Churches. Because of that whole Establishment Clause thing.
bemused
@Burnspbesq:
I hope there is a life beyond and Molly is whooping and hollering.
WereBear
@Randy P: Ricky wants to be Girolamo Savonarola.
shell
Wow, one more consequence of today’s decision is one new BJ blog posting after another. ;-)
? Martin
@Randy P: Actually, it has everything to do with churches because as he notes: “Marriage between a man and a woman was established by God”. That is a violation of the religious freedoms of everyone who does not ascribe to his particular religion. Their ‘religious freedom’ is nothing more than the demand for religious imposition from the majority. It’s not freedom they want but domination.
Tommy
@Burnspbesq: I don’t really, other than kind of caring for my fellow human/citizen. I was busy this morning. Sat down with lunch and saw the news for the first time minutes ago. My eyes leaked a little.
Think ten years ago, heck five years ago I NEVER would have thought this would have happened. We’d have both public option swing as it has and then a SCOTUS ruling.
Fucking awesome!!!!!!!!!!!
Susan D.
By the time my daughter was 5, I knew that she would be a major athlete. She is, in 3 sports and the team captain of every single one of them. She is 17 now.
My son was a mystery to me all his life. I did not know where his talents would lie. But by the time he was 14, he let me know. He was musically gifted, could sing beautifully, and was a band geek and theater kid. And when he was 15, he told us he was gay. He is 16 now.
So today when my husband told me about the ruling, we high fived and smiled. And when I told my son about the ruling, he just said. Cool.
Yeah, pretty cool.
Professor
Has anyone (the so-called religious fundies) explained to the world the definition of marriage? Or what they mean by ‘traditional marriage’?
Chris
@Randy P:
The problem isn’t so much not wanting the best for your loved ones, it’s more not having the humility to recognize that you may not know what’s best for them, and that whether or not you do, it’s ultimately not up to you.
A lot of the patriarchal worldview is all wrapped up in this notion of men having an obligation to protect women from harm. It’s easy for people to think of that in terms of “I’m just doing what’s best for the people I love.” It also easily leads to the kind of “sheepdog”/”sheep” mentality that we often hear about WRT, say, cops and the public they serve – with all the implied contempt for the agency of the “sheep.”
the Conster
Love love love that man.
Tommy
@? Martin:
Yes, exactly that. Through each generation, my family has gotten less religious. I am an atheist. Not sure what my brother is but he got married on a beach and it wasn’t by a Priest/Minister.
His niece (I don’t have any kids) is six. Never been in a church. First in my family and her family not to be Baptized.
I can totally understand (and totally disagree) with why so many on the right are freaking out about this SCOTUS ruling. The times are a changing.
Betty Cracker
@Bill: My 16-year-old daughter is gay. I’m thrilled she’ll become an adult in a country where she won’t be treated like a second-class citizen (by the government, anyway). The bigotry she has been and will be subjected to is the only thing that worried me when she came out. Otherwise, I was thrilled to pieces — there’s almost NO chance she’ll ruin her life by getting knocked up by some clodhopper in high school. I said that to her once, and she rolled her eyes so hard I thought they’d pop out and land on the rug.
cahuenga
Good grief. Thomas plumbs the depths:
http://fusion.net/story/157284/clarence-thomass-jaw-dropping-gay-marriage-dissent-slaves-did-not-lose-their-dignity/
I’m speechless.
Steve from Antioch
Bravo. Excellent post.
You point to a fact that I’ve never thought about: discrimination and bigotry don’t just extract a toll on people today, the also limit the opportunities and shape of the future.
(I think Kennedy’s opinion is a mess – but I’m not going to dwell on that today.)
SiubhanDuinne
@the Conster:
If I didn’t already, that anecdote would make me love him!
Tom Levenson
Lovely, Richard.
I look at my fifteen year old son, and for the first Supreme Court session in a while, hold out some hope that we might leave a better world for him than the one we entered. A good day. A good week.
Tom Levenson
@the Conster: Heewack! Joe for galactic overlord.
SiubhanDuinne
@cahuenga:
I just saw that Thomas comment and was about to bring it over here for unpacking. Unreal.
Elizabelle
It’s our job to make sure that the possibility space for young people (and others!) stays as wide as possible.
And fight off the glib, greedy tongues that seek an ownership society, and make us less than we can be.
Omnes Omnibus
I just looked at my facebook feed and the only comments I am seeing are positive ones. It is nice to have friends who aren’t assholes.
And now to disconnect from all social media and try to get some work done.
West of the Cascades
How important is making sure a Democratic president sits in the White House the next term? Imagine if Elena Kagan and Sonia Sotomayor weren’t on the Court, but instead there were a couple of RWNJs plucked by President McCain from the 5th Circuit (or the loathsome Janice Rogers Brown from the DC Circuit). Kennedy would have written an impassioned dissent (joined by Ginsburg and Breyer) in the Windsor DOMA case, but that would have been the end to any notion of a “right” to same sex marriage.
Anyone who sees no difference between Democrats and Republicans (coughRalphNadercough) should be asked to play the “what if” game with recent 5-4 or 6-3 Supreme Court decisions where Kagan and Sotomayor were in the majority.
rikyrah
On point Mayhew.
On point.
WereBear
There’s an extraordinary guest post on Love Joy Feminism recently:
Call me Rita
About a lesbian finally coming out to her evangelical parents. It has haunted me since I read it because she was met with such coldness… and had the startling feedback of hints that her father had turned his back on his true nature to conform to what their religion urged.
And that he couldn’t understand why she would not do that.
Gimlet
@cahuenga:
Got into Ginny’s booze and drunk dialed it in.
chopper
@cahuenga:
that’s just…i can’t even.
NotMax
So when does FOX start calling it Obamasex?
West of the Cascades
@NotMax: SCOTUSmarriage
Tommy
@Elizabelle:
Amen to that 100 times over. As I have said here many times I don’t have any kids, just a six-year-old niece I am close to. My brother and I both work in technology and read tech blogs and know that women often are looked down upon in our industry. Make up far less than 50% of workers. Often told they can’t do this or that.
My niece Katie can get around on computers better than her grandparents and I fear in a few years better than her father and uncle. We try to empower her and let her know she can be and do anything she wants.
I have to believe many moderate Republicans and Libertarians are teaching their daughters the same thing. So why not also be able to teach her she can love (and now marry) whomever she wants?
Seems a simple and logical conclusion to me ….. but what do I know :)!
Renie
The religious guy who was going to set himself on fire — did I miss that?
? Martin
@NotMax: I think we’ve advanced to SCOTUSex after yesterday.
Gator90
How long before conservatives start saying they were always for gay rights and liberals were the real oppressors of LGBT people?
Gimlet
Yikes!
A 26-year-old man recently died after contracting a rare, deadly bacterial infection while swimming in the Gulf of Mexico near Tampa, officials confirmed today.
The victim, Cason Yeager, who is from Lake County, died on June 16, only two days after he went swimming.
“This has been a nightmare for me, to say the least, and nobody should have to go through this,” his mother, Karen Yeager said, adding she wants to spread awareness that even healthy people can fall victim to the bacteria that killed her son — Vibrio vulnificus.
? Martin
@Renie: These guys who say their voice comes from the almighty never seem to be able to follow through. Based on their own proclamations, God’s a bit of a slacker.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@WereBear:
If there was any silver lining to the AIDS crisis, it was that it (eventually) created a stigma against parents who would completely cut off their LGBT children. The urgency of seeing your child at least once more before he died ended up overriding the societal expectation that you would cut that child out of your life for being gay. Once that societal expectation of automatic ostracization from the family crumbled, it was only a matter of time before the rest crumbled, too.
At this point, the holdouts are a remnant population who think “principles” are more important than actual living, breathing people and their complicated lives.
WereBear
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): I agree that the AIDS crisis was a game-changer in many ways. A horrible price was paid, but it also showed the world that there really were people involved; brave, compassionate, even heroic, people.
It also stripped the covers off of hidden lives. I’d known about Rock Hudson for years, since I had gay friends, but it was certainly not common knowledge. So the shock of his unveiling challenged a lot of preconceptions.
raven
Nick Danger, Third Eye. RIP.
boatboy_srq
Wow. This is possibly the best Obergefell comment I’ve seen, or could hope to see.
I wish you’d known my parents, and could have explained this to them. They were big on the “possibility space” idea as well (or at least its “you can be anything you want to be” predecessor) – everywhere except the personal relationship part.
Elizabelle
@the Conster: Glad to hear that. Time for some happiness for Joe.
mai naem mobile
I’m waiting for the twitter replies sent to SCOTUSblog thinking that it’s the USSC twitter address. They’re going to be blaming SCOTUSblog for well dressed men and the invention of the color purple just like the movie.
ruemara
That’s about all there is to think about, isn’t it. It’s been a great two days. I can’t begin to say how joyous it is, especially after the week black people have had. Nice to see good things moving along. I’m already not going to pay rent on time, so I think I’m going to just go to Pride in SF and bask in the happiness. Now, we just have to protect the rights we just got defined.
ruemara
@Elizabelle: Parody accounts, people. Parody. Veep Joe is not playing supergay with a rainbow flag round his neck
Elizabelle
@ruemara: Fell for it hook, line and rainbow. Ta, ruemara.
ThresherK
A regular commenter here informed me, earlier this week, about Pat Boone.
Well, a national crisis is bringing out his inner nutjob . The link also reveals that Boone has a regular column at WorldNetDaily.
He shoulda shut up a couple decades ago and just let people confuse him with Tab Hunter, another young man who did some crooning and acting in the ’50s, but has become a well-adjusted grownup.
icedfire
@the Conster: I must find pictures of this.
terraformer
That was a pretty awesome post.
What I’ll never understand is how ~25% of our population, reading the same words, would not agree with all of them. I think the key is empathy, and they lack it.
ruemara
@Elizabelle: Truth be told, I could see Joe doing that. So I loved it.
shell
@raven: Oh no.
I haven’t listened to their albums in years but I can still quote them verbatim
? Martin
@ruemara: But the fact remains that we all think it’s plausible. After all, this is a big fucking deal.
WaterGirl
@the Conster: Reading this would make me happy anytime, but picturing Joe running down the hall with a rainbow flag as a cape makes me particularly happy today after seeing how terribly grief stricken he looked yesterday.
boatboy_srq
@Renie: @? Martin: Every time I see these wingnuts loudly announcing that they’ll do these ridiculous things if they don’t get the result they want, I remember this exchange from The Running Man:
Killian: Did they commit suicide?
aide: Obviously not, Damon.
Killian: Then they’re unreliable.
Xenos
I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of douchebags suddenly cried out in terror, and were silenced…
WereBear
@Xenos: They… couldn’t… believe it.
elmo
Magnificent. Beautifully put.
CONGRATULATIONS!
Sometimes you know with kids, sometimes you don’t. By the time I was three, my preference for blonde women was very clearly established – I still laugh my ass off when I see pictures of my childhood birthday parties. Me and ten blonde girls. And now I’m married to one.
But most of the time it’s not that obvious (save for my gay nephew, who doesn’t even know what “gay” means yet, but he is) and it’s a path with twists and turns until you figure out who and what you love.
The kids will be alright.
Patricia Kayden
Great comment, Richard. I have a hard time understanding parents who turn their backs on their children because of their sexual orientation such as Alan Keyes.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/feb/26/gayrights.usa
Benw
@? Martin: yep! Santorum, Huckabee, Jindal, et al, are such heartless assholes. They can’t even feel grateful that they are lucky to live in a country that specifically guarantees their right to worship as they see fit. They’re just pissed that they can’t use their religion to crap all over other people.
boatboy_srq
@cahuenga: I’m so very glad that other people can review that man’s bile and translate it for the rest of us. I could never do that. It does strike me, though, that while it’s possible he might be right about human dignity, he’s quite wrong about its opposite. Government can (and frequently has) visit[ed] indignity on various people – including all of his examples – with regularity, barbarity and the permission (tacit and overt) of the courts. If restraining government from these actions/policies ends the indignity experienced, then the possession of dignity by the affected individuals/groups the public indignities were previously visited upon is moot, and so is his argument on this point.
Punchy
Not picking on Burnsie, but is this cliche’s etymology about dog fighting? Anyone know?
MazeDancer
Such a beautiful post, Richard
@Bill:
Wonderful dad words!
Seeing so much good parenting love is most uplifting
Mike J
@Punchy: More abut betting on a sporting event, but the “sport” in question is dog fighting.
I don’t believe the use of the phrase leads to acceptance of dog fighting though.
A Ghost To Most
@Betty Cracker:
My 25 yr old son (Aspergers) is gay. He is home from college; I can’t wait to tell him when he wakes up. One less hurdle for him to have to overcome.
Joyous day. The wingnut tears are like the bowl at the end of the meal.
JPL
I have a serious question…
What the hell is Scalia talking about
sharl
@raven: Yeah, I saw that a few days ago. RIP, Nick Danger.
Just found this on YouTube (28m9s) – Nick Danger, Third Eye, in “Cut ‘Em Off At The Past”
? Martin
Twitter elegantly solves the problem: replace all the confederate flags with rainbow flags. Done and done.
SiubhanDuinne
@ruemara:
Well, it should be true. And because I make my own reality, it is true.
SiubhanDuinne
@? Martin:
Really? I put up that suggestion on FB an hour or so ago.
Someone from Twitter stole my idea!! Thanks a lot, Obama.
? Martin
@JPL: Who knows. He’s only had sex 9 times in his life, so maybe he doesn’t know either.
Belafon
@JPL: It sounds like he’s saying why would gays want to marry and be as miserable as the rest of us?
glory b
@chopper: Trust me, you still won’t know. There’s no telling what they may come across that will attract their interest or passion in just the next few years.
My son and daughter are 19 and 21, and they’ve gone through a few major changes since they were in elementary school.
boatboy_srq
@Randy P: Church/State. The Establishment Clause (in their tiny minds) means “separation of My State from That Religion I Don’t Like.” Separating the State from Any faith goes against their “Divinely inspired and founded” myth for the USA (among other curious misconceptions).
FlipYrWhig
@JPL: He’s imagining a free-lovin’ Haight denizen saying “marriage is a cage, maaan.”
Face
@JPL: Explanation #1 — Hippies dont get married and sexytime anyone they meet. Explanation #2: Since “hippies” terminology went out in the 70’s, Scalia just returned in his time machine just in time to scribble some shit with a crayon. Explanation #3 — Scalia is openly demonstrating his intent to completely abandon all professionalism and legal reasoning for whatever the base GOP wants in a particular ruling.
JPL
@Belafon: Only the hippie knows for sure, though.
Trentrunner
Oh, God. Sullivan is blogging again. Historic day, and all, but geez.
How can we miss you if you won’t go away?
? Martin
Louisiana AG has told clerks to wait 25 days before issuing licenses to allow time for USSC appeals. Still fighting the last war, I see.
the Conster
@icedfire:
it’s a parody account unfortunately, but here’s a pic
boatboy_srq
@Belafon: Scalia is an anti-Flower-Child: the kind of person who grew up in that timeframe and became familiar with the terms and concepts, and rejected each and every one. He’s equating marriage with fidelity – a serious mistake, especially since we’ve seen so many “Traditional Marriage” proponents caught with some “intimate partner” not their wives (maybe it’s just my limited exposure but it seems the biggest a##h0les on this subject – and the most publicly identified for not walking the talk – are all men), and especially since we’ve seen so many SS committed couples who haven’t had the opportunity to become legally joined. It’s the same problem his generational subgroup has with Free Love: the idea that you could feel different things with different partners, and that boundaries are constructs, is equally alien.
Elizabelle
@Patricia Kayden: As did Phyllis Schlafly. Turned her back on her gay son. Character will out.
FlipYrWhig
@boatboy_srq:
Oooh, aptly observed and well said.
beltane
@? Martin: Um, the Supreme Court has the final word and they have spoken. If these clowns want to push for a Constitutional amendment overturning this decision they are welcome to try, but in the meantime they should just shut up and tend to their own marriages.
Betty Cracker
@Trentrunner: As much as Sully has annoyed me over the years (5th column!), I’m glad he delurked on this topic. He was fighting for (well, yapping about, anyway) marriage equality back when most people thought it was an absurd and laughable idea.
Elizabelle
@Trentrunner:
@Betty Cracker:
Yeah. Gotta give excitable boy Andrew Sullivan his props. Here’s his blogpost. It is Accomplished.
I am happy for him.
President Obama up in a few moments at Pinckney service. I think another cousin first, though. It’s been a good service, and joyful more than sad.
beltane
@JPL: Scalia is the type of Catholic who believes in the mortification of the flesh. To him, spirituality and intimacy are tied together with concepts of bondage, submission and suffering. Freedom itself is suspect in his mind.
Belafon
@boatboy_srq: Yeah, the local wingnut at my work pulled the “we’re heading from freedom FROM religion.”
Elizabelle
The Pinckney cousin gets 60 seconds, he or she is told….
Elizabelle
@Belafon: And the asshole hit it on the head, whether intended or not.
You cannot have freedom OF religion without freedom FROM religion.
burnspbesq
@Mike J:
Certainly not in my case. Absolutely not. Disgusting spectacle. The laws against it should be more strictly enforced.
Elizabelle
To say nothing of that dog meat festival in China. (Shudders.)
Starfish
@the Conster: That’s a parody account, but I had to look that up because you never can tell.
lgerard
Too bad Wal Mart stopped selling confederate flags just when the wingnuts need them the most
all part of gods plan
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@? Martin:
How does someone get appointed or elected to a state AG position if they don’t know there’s no appeal to the Supreme Court? What a fucking idiot.
Belafon
@Elizabelle:
After I left, I thought of a good response to that: “Yeah, just wait until I impose my religion.”
? Martin
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): When considering Republicans, never attribute to stupidity that which is adequately explained by malice.
burnspbesq
@Trentrunner:
Don’t begrudge Andrew his victory lap. He earned it. He was one of the very first to suggest that marriage equality was the right answer; his 1989 New Republic cover story looks eerily prescient now, but at the time it was the craziest of crazy-talk.
Tree With Water
Many people argued back then that slavery was in its death throes by the 1860’s, too. Others in that decade begged to differ.
“..Indeed, however heartened the proponents of same-sex marriage might be on this day, it is worth acknowledging what they have lost, and lost forever: the opportunity to win the true acceptance that comes from persuading their fellow citizens of the justice of their cause,” Roberts wrote in his dissent. “And they lose this just when the winds of change* were freshening at their backs…”.
Roberts should borrow a copy of Planet Waves and give this song a spin:
“..May your hands always be busy
May your feet always be swift,
May you have a strong foundation
When the winds of changes shift..”.
Although he might prefer listening to the Stones ‘Jigsaw Puzzle’, containing Mick Jagger’s great lyric, “..and the queen is bravely shouting, “what the hell is going on?”.
Germy Shoemangler
My local newspaper online put this article up. They made it a headline, even though we’re miles away from that state. Also, it’s NOT behind a paywall, unlike everything else that goes on that site. I guess they felt it was important everyone see it and be suitably outraged:
Poopyman
Another day, and cnn.com haz another glaad:
Again with the 72-point type.
They keep this up and I might start raising my opinion of them.
shawn
@Trentrunner: Sullivan was the best political (maybe overall) blogger that ever was / BJ is fun and all, but it can’t touch what he did – artistically, educationally, whateverelse-ally – i’ve missed him since 2/6 – very happy for him
WereBear
Oh, yeah. Like talking the South into treating their gay and black citizens as people is going so well.
catclub
@Germy Shoemangler: I went to the Jackson (Miss) Clarion ledger. The comments on the gay marriage decision, in which Phil Bryant fulminates in parallel with his state’s previous responses to Loving v Virginia or Brown v Board of education, are 80-90% in favor of the decision. I was pleased and surprised. It may also be that the pro-equal rights side was organized.
Poopyman
@WereBear: And we were riiiight on the cusp of convincing them! Another 6 months is all it would’ve taken.
Mike J
I’m really hoping the USWNT wins today. Or is that greedy after several days of good news?
Things are going our way in the USA.
http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/2203/7355/original.jpg
boatboy_srq
@Tree With Water: @WereBear: I’m sure there were Confederates who, prior to secession and the Civil War, were prepared to accept Blacks as their equals thanks to the persuasion of equality proponents – not. Did Roberts sit on the SCOTUS that decided Dred Scott in a former life or something? Because that part of his opinion is marginally less horrifically stupid than Thomas’ entire opinion. What we’ve given up – if indeed we’ve given anything at all – is the need to persuade, and the obligation to refute nonsensical disingenuous Reichwing talking points supporting hate-filled legislation.
bemused
@ThresherK:
I seem to recall that Boone was no sanctimonious, hard right Christian in his youth…far from that if the stories were accurate.
KG
@FlipYrWhig: when I was in law school, I had a conversation with some classmates about same sex marriage. Someone asked me my opinion and I said, “I’ve got no problem with it. Gay people should be able to make the same mistakes the rest of us can make.”
Germy Shoemangler
@bemused: If you want to understand Pat Boone, do a google image search for “Pat Boone Dick Box”
It’s a photo someone found in a dumpster some years back. It’s real.
MomSense
The whole post is lovely, Richard. I especially like the last sentence.
Germy Shoemangler
bemused
@Germy Shoemangler:
That’s what I recalled but didn’t definitely remember if it was real. Whew. I wonder if Pat knows that has been floating around for years.
Mary G
I am late to the party, but tearing up so much. Love this story: 82-year-old George Harris and 85-year-old Jack Evans were the first same-sex couple married in Dallas on Friday. They have been together more than five decades. Even in red Texas!
FlipYrWhig
@Tree With Water:
BTW, this echoes what a lot of backseat drivers, especially the politer sort of conservatives, say about Roe v. Wade: it made a right but by preempting the lawmaking process it created more animus among the populace. But, ya know, rights is rights, not subject to a vote.
Germy Shoemangler
@bemused: I think it was picked up by Hustler but he never threatened any lawsuits, as far as I know.
Poopyman
And in a not unrelated development, your favorite Pope reminds his Church that while dogma is all well and good, reality needs to be taken into account:
(h/t Charlie Pierce)
KG
For what it’s worth, this is the line from Kennedy’s decision that I really like (haven’t read the opinion yet, just a few summaries and quotes):
There was, once, a theory in the law, particularly in the common law tradition, that rights aren’t created by the courts or legislatures, but only recognized. The rights preexisted our recognition of them, but it was through trial and error and a better understanding of nature, of the universe, of history, etc that we came to recognize them. Historically, that job fell to the courts, and I argued for a time in law school and after, that this was the point of the Ninth and Tenth Amendments. Kennedy’s line wasn’t quite as good as Jefferson’s line:
But I think using Jefferson would have probably really sent the wingularity into the Big Derp Bang.
bemused
@Germy Shoemangler:
The more sanctimonious and bigoted toward others a “Christian” is, the more likely he/she has skeletons in the closet.
Elizabelle
President Obama approaching the stage to deliver eulogy.
Punchy
@Poopyman: I’m very scared some Opus Dei fanatic is going to off Franky da Pope before God does. His penchant for realism and focus on actual people is pissing off many on the far right…
chopper
@Germy Shoemangler:
no thanks.
shawn
@chopper: haha – seriously – no thanks is right
Germy Shoemangler
@chopper: It’s just a tiny thing.
And it’s in a box.
FlipYrWhig
@Germy Shoemangler: Step one: cut a hole in a box
ThresherK
@chopper: Neither I.
chopper
@FlipYrWhig:
step three: have her click on a link with a pic of the box
Tree With Water
@Germy Shoemangler: I remember that even my Lawrence Welk-loving cornball parents considered Boone a cornball doofus, and that was long before Satan ensnared him with all that religious rubbish.
Xenos
@? Martin: How do you appeal a ruling to the USSC?
Is this a motion to reconsider (fat chance!) or an appeal to the UN?
NotMax
@Belafon
To which the proper response is “And that’s a bad thing because…?”
Eric U.
my son was studying multivariate calculus so he could test out of it and take something he wants to take. Refreshing contrast to those kids that only want to do the minimum required, which is just about everyone.
Tree With Water
@Punchy: Your foreboding is shared by many, I’m sure. That said, may god bless all her servants of peace and wisdom (as for the rest, the sword!). Monty Python did a witty bit starring Michael Palin as “Da Bishop”. If you’ve never seen it, I think it’s on you-tube.
Ken
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
They run in a Red State, obviously.
Elizabelle
@Punchy: I worry, too, for Pope Francis and for our marvelous president. Want both to have long and productive years ahead, and full natural lives (as a centenarian, for Francis.)
John M. Burt
The best America is yet to be.
As the father of five children (one biological) and the grandfather of one, I have to believe that. With this week’s events, I find it easier to believe.